250 - Look Who’s Crossing

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hello.

[2] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[3] The Thanksgiving episode.

[4] Oh, right.

[5] It's Thanksgiving for y 'all today.

[6] It's Thanksgiving Day episode.

[7] How is it not having to see your family this year?

[8] How is Zooming with the fam ideal, the way it should always be done?

[9] The best.

[10] That's Karen Kilgara.

[11] Oh, that's Georgia Hartstark.

[12] Hi.

[13] We're here.

[14] Yeah.

[15] Oh.

[16] So, you know, in the mini of this episode this week, I asked about mid -century modern dollhouses.

[17] Yes.

[18] And is there like a hashtag?

[19] And a bunch of people tagged me on this really great one called Tiny House Calls, C -A -L -L -S.

[20] And it's by Dr. Kwanda Roberts.

[21] And it's just beautiful interior design, mid -century modern, like, cute style, our fucking style.

[22] But it's all mini.

[23] Look, can you see that?

[24] Whoa, that looks real.

[25] I know.

[26] That doesn't look small at all.

[27] It's all mini.

[28] Look at that.

[29] I want my house to look like that.

[30] Is this decorator slash designer making, like they have a mid -century dollhouse that they're then filling with mid -century furniture?

[31] Or they're just making the furniture?

[32] I think they do the whole thing.

[33] I think you like design a room.

[34] So I don't know if it's like an actual house, like doll house or if it's just room by room.

[35] But I follow a lot of miniature makers.

[36] And it's, I mean, it's fascinating.

[37] In same corner, reply corner, we can say.

[38] Last week, I made a, I was actually going to have Stephen cut it out when I talked about my newest candy obsession, which is sour skeddy.

[39] I wrote it down in the middle of night to be like, stop talking about candy.

[40] Like, stop pretending that's interesting.

[41] It's not.

[42] Well, then I got some support on Twitter, and I really want to thank their name's Boodle on Twitter.

[43] And they're at is Bailey Eschbach, like an impossible.

[44] I don't know if it's a name or if you're trying to sound drunk.

[45] I don't know what if it's a joke.

[46] A Russian spy.

[47] Whatever you are.

[48] Thank you, Boodle, because they wrote to me, I am also not super proud of my Sour Sketti needs.

[49] So I buy it in bulk.

[50] And they showed a picture of a whole box of Sourer Skiddy that they have sent to their house, which I really respect.

[51] There it is.

[52] Haribo.

[53] Oh, you got to love Harrowbo.

[54] Come on.

[55] Shame dies in the light.

[56] So thank you.

[57] Thank you for being there with me and that.

[58] Oh, I'm reading a book that I really like that Oprah, Oprah likes too.

[59] So clearly.

[60] It must be good.

[61] It must be good.

[62] And she and I must be best friends.

[63] It's not Hillbilly elegy, is it?

[64] No. No, but I really want to watch that because everyone keeps saying it's the worst movie they've had anyone's ever seen, which makes me absolutely want to see.

[65] see it.

[66] I mean, sure.

[67] My thing is people keep posting pictures of Amy Adams looking dumpy from that movie.

[68] Every time I see it, I go, oh, that's a cute shirt.

[69] Every time I see it, I get really, I feel supported and seen.

[70] And I'm like, yay, I like messy hair.

[71] Oh, it's she's supposed to look bad.

[72] Oh, that's right.

[73] Finally, Amy Adams is like, likes my style.

[74] Oh, wait.

[75] She's supposed to be playing.

[76] Oh, I guess it hasn't come into style yet, not brushing your hair.

[77] And that's the 80s.

[78] That's the 80s and 90s and it hasn't come back yet.

[79] But you won't come back.

[80] You just wait.

[81] Oh, hold on.

[82] So I'm listening to this incredible book called Hidden Valley Road by Robert Kolker.

[83] And it's the true story of this family with 12 children and from the 19, like, 45 on.

[84] And six of those children end up getting diagnosed with schizophrenia.

[85] So at the time, of course, there's not a ton of research.

[86] done on it and they become kind of this like study of the science of schizophrenia, you know, based on their family.

[87] And so psychiatry and brain doctors and scientists study them to figure out the how and the why of and the what of schizophrenia and the diagnosis and what it means and how it can be treated.

[88] And it's just really fascinating.

[89] If you read the book, The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks, it's really similar where it goes between, you know, the family and what they're going through and their life.

[90] And then the next chapter is about the scientists and the study and the brain and it's just it's a really interesting read and if you're fascinated by you know psychiatry which i am it's it's such an incredible book so that's a hidden valley road by robert colker that's great yeah i love it i highly recommend it that sounds really good i um well i just binged the crown the fourth season of the crown i watched my first episode i've ever seen of it last night of the crown and not only you started on four thing yeah because i wanted to see lady die on it and then it's just olivia coleman but i'm fucking really enjoying it and i'm like oh shit i might have to go back and just start from the beginning you really should because it's just as good one claire foy as the queen it is it's really i was surprised how much i liked it yeah okay i might do that i don't think vince is interested though so i'm on my own oops i'll say this they they're not it's not just one of those kind of like, oh, it's a historical, you know, like drama series or whatever, they know how to make TV.

[91] The people that make this show are really good at making TV.

[92] So it's very compelling.

[93] You know, you learn and grow, but also it's just good, good TV.

[94] I'm into the World War II history of it all.

[95] So that sounds super exciting for me. Okay.

[96] It's great.

[97] So you binged that.

[98] I binged it.

[99] There's a couple episodes nearly.

[100] I didn't get, I think I got like six episodes in, and then I fell asleep, which I think about all the time where I fall asleep and then I'm like, is my brain still listening?

[101] Do I know what happened at the end of season four of the crown?

[102] And I just, my conscious brain doesn't know, but it's like in there somewhere.

[103] Maybe.

[104] I wonder if it works that way.

[105] Listen, dream doctors, fuck, or anyone who has a dream diary dictionary, let us know, please.

[106] Yeah.

[107] What if I go and try to pitch the back half of season four of the crown and people are like, this is word for word what they already made.

[108] As a podcast.

[109] No. I have this great idea.

[110] I can't do that.

[111] Okay.

[112] What else?

[113] Did you see, this is one of the better videos I've seen on Twitter all week in Utah.

[114] They made, because so many animals were being killed on Interstate 80, I think it is.

[115] They made an overpass for animals.

[116] No. And then they put video cameras day and night scope video cameras and so you can watch the video it's like see who's crossing look who's crossing look who's crossing there's there's deer there's tons of bears there's little squirrels and tiny mice and like in the overpass there's like it's dirt and then they put logs and rocks and natural things so that they can hide if they're scared or whatever how do they know to cross is it like they're just like great I'd rather do this than cross across the street or whatever so they just know how to do it I get maybe they like maybe they like heard them heard there but there's like a there's some kind of a really bossy deer crossing guard that's on one side like this way we're doing it this way now okay Claire with your clipboard get it you're in charge Claire I want to go down by the highway no no no no no we're not doing that anymore I'm Claire the bossy deer yeah you're going to that it's really that's worth a I like how everything's feeling a little lighter and a little you know a little more positive these days and then you see videos like that you don't need them so much you're just like great yeah and not like you're holding your phone crying and staring going oh my god there is good in this world just go watch for yourself you'll see how goddamn great it is to watch a bear walking and then stop and stand on timelines and look around like could this be trusted let me just like yes it can be Another reason I'm real bummed is that I had to stop feeding the squirrels, my like neighbors, the squirrels that have like essentially taken over our deck, our like patio because it's theirs now.

[117] So I have to stop giving them walnuts all the time.

[118] So they're not going to come around anymore and I'm really fucking sad about it.

[119] I watched them grow up and goodbye to the squirrels.

[120] Oh.

[121] I know.

[122] Just because they don't want them around?

[123] Because they're now like living on our outdoor space.

[124] They like live there.

[125] and we can't go outside now.

[126] The cats can't go outside.

[127] I'm worried about mites and fleas and stuff.

[128] They're all over our furniture, patio furniture.

[129] They're throwing my plants over the balcony.

[130] Like, it's just, it's a little too much at this point.

[131] You really didn't think it all the way through.

[132] No. Going, hey, free food over here.

[133] Oh, my God.

[134] Look, how cute they are.

[135] And Vince was like, hey, I'm from Michigan.

[136] Don't do.

[137] You shouldn't feed those.

[138] And I was like, no way.

[139] It's so cute.

[140] I love them.

[141] And he's like, okay.

[142] Okay, Snow White.

[143] You're fucked.

[144] that's like the time that I put out a bird feeder because I'm like look I like birds yeah this is my passion I put out a bird feeder birds were coming in a backyard and then like three days later I looked outside and there was no joke like 30 pigeons just standing around and what they would do is one would jump up on the bird feeder and spin it yeah and just flick the bird seat everywhere and they just found out it was just like free food in this backyard it was just went out and took it right back down.

[145] Exactly.

[146] No thanks, pigeons.

[147] That's exactly what is happening.

[148] Did you see the video of the old guy in Florida who rescued his dog from a little alligator?

[149] I saw a screen grab of it and I couldn't watch it.

[150] But he survived.

[151] He's like dog survived.

[152] Oh, yeah.

[153] Oh, thank God.

[154] Oh, my God.

[155] The old guy goes in.

[156] He's got a, he's got a cigar in his mouth, like clamp between his teeth.

[157] That thing never fucking comes out of his mouth.

[158] He pulls the dog.

[159] dog.

[160] The alligator's only like this big.

[161] It's, you know, either it's a baby alligator or crocodile.

[162] I'm not sure in that area, wherever, but, or it's the kind that doesn't get me bigger.

[163] But he basically is holding it like this and his little dog, he just like, opens it to know, throws the dog this way.

[164] The dog takes off running and then he just like throws it.

[165] And at no point.

[166] He's smoking a cigar the entire time.

[167] He's like, he's the ultimate old Florida man. love him.

[168] Yeah.

[169] Congratulations, dude.

[170] Yeah.

[171] And the dog had a punctured long, but he's doing fine now.

[172] Oh.

[173] Oh.

[174] I mean, it was like in the jaws of an alligator.

[175] Yeah.

[176] Serious.

[177] A little life slash before his eyes.

[178] A little tiny.

[179] Did you?

[180] Wait, sorry.

[181] Did you see the huge alligator on the other end of the alligator news spectrum?

[182] No. They took a picture of this alligator that was walking across a golf course in Florida.

[183] Okay, I think I did see this.

[184] And it's the size of a fucking minivan.

[185] Truly.

[186] Truly.

[187] Jive fucking gigantic.

[188] Did you see the moose that someone took, it was a while ago, but it was a moose in Alaska walking down the center of a highway and someone pulled up to it and it is the size of a small building.

[189] Really?

[190] Did you know moose for this fucking size?

[191] Did you, I saw a moose.

[192] I thought you were going to say the moose video where the moose is just fucking running through snow top speed like and the snow is like four feet deep and this moose runs by and it's going 30 miles an hour and the people are just like whoa and it's like it's as if the snow is not there like it doesn't impede that moose at all i hope he used the the cross the bridge the bridge crossing he was running to knock the bridge down he's at he's anti which you know it's going to happen those anti bridgers they will not crazy speaking of which friend of the family phoebe bridgers nominated for a Grammy.

[193] Yay.

[194] Congratulations, Phoebe.

[195] Hey.

[196] Award.

[197] She's so talented.

[198] Did you hear her cover of Iris?

[199] Yes.

[200] It was so incredible.

[201] It was so good.

[202] Her and Maggie Rogers.

[203] Maggie.

[204] Her and Maggie Rogers covering.

[205] Stephen, are you a super fan?

[206] Maggie Rogers record is really great too.

[207] Obviously, I mean, Phoebe's record is like the best record this year.

[208] Yeah.

[209] Pitchfork says so.

[210] That means it's a fact.

[211] Um, cool.

[212] So we do a little, a little business, a little news?

[213] Sure.

[214] A little exactly right corner news.

[215] Well, what's really exciting is that our newest show 10fold more wicked premiered on Monday.

[216] I mean.

[217] Which we hope you already love it and subscribe to it and adore it.

[218] Yeah.

[219] If you need a new true crime podcast, this one has everything.

[220] That's right.

[221] I'm doing I said no gifts at the end of the month.

[222] Oh, great.

[223] started, I'm like really nervous and I'm a really nervous gift giver.

[224] So I've already started collecting things to maybe give Bridger.

[225] Two days before you go on the show, you're going to call them up and tell him what the gift is.

[226] I absolutely.

[227] I'm that's so me. I'm going to send him a photo.

[228] I'm like, I'm just, this is for a friend.

[229] Which one of these would you rather have?

[230] I'm so nervous.

[231] All right.

[232] Yeah.

[233] You guys know all the, I saw what you did.

[234] Bananas.

[235] We have so many good podcasts on our network.

[236] Check it out.

[237] Pretty soon we're going to have so many podcasts.

[238] We're not going to be able to do this.

[239] this because there's going to be too many to talk about.

[240] But until that time, we get to stoke the fire.

[241] Yeah.

[242] Oh, this is fun.

[243] This is a quick, a quick mention.

[244] And it's the 2020 is almost over sale.

[245] Right.

[246] So we're doing 20 % off all merch in the store from Friday at midnight until Monday at midnight Pacific Standard Time.

[247] So just use the code, goodbye 2020 when you check out.

[248] And, you know, get yourself something nice.

[249] Get yourself a little something, something in celebration.

[250] Yeah.

[251] So that's my My favoritemerder .com in the store, Goodbye, 2020 is the promo code.

[252] There's so much stuff on the tip of my brain to talk about that I can't remember today.

[253] So why don't we get to the murders instead?

[254] The murderer.

[255] Yeah, the murder.

[256] The story.

[257] I'm all alone this week.

[258] Yeah.

[259] Karen's going this week.

[260] I'm going to go next week because I have a big one for next week.

[261] Because, guys, we've been podcasting all the way through 2020.

[262] And I realize that you know this because you listen to the podcast.

[263] and thank you for that.

[264] But it has not been easy.

[265] This year has not been an easy one to just continually churn out content for.

[266] Right.

[267] Yeah.

[268] That's very true.

[269] That's very true.

[270] And we're doing other things.

[271] You know, we're running this network.

[272] There's another thing we're doing that we can't talk about yet.

[273] That's really exciting.

[274] Yeah.

[275] Oh, we're not allowed to do that.

[276] Sorry, Stephen.

[277] Like that.

[278] Just, no, no, no, just.

[279] bleep the word.

[280] Yeah, that's how we make it exciting.

[281] Good idea.

[282] So, yeah, there's a lot going on, but we, of course, the most important thing is the podcast, and we fucking love it.

[283] And we just want to make sure that this is, that this is sustainable for the two of us so that we can keep doing it through what's going to be the best year in anyone's existence, 2021, hopefully.

[284] Oh, my God.

[285] First of all, let's just talk each individually about the first celebratory action we're going to take.

[286] Like once the vaccines have been distributed and proven to be effective, suddenly everything's open again.

[287] Normal life has started.

[288] Georgia Hardstock.

[289] Where are you going to go?

[290] Downtown Las Vegas.

[291] I've got to go fucking play Buffalo.

[292] Buffalo.

[293] Vince and I are going to fucking just have it out in Vegas.

[294] It's going to do best.

[295] Well, you mean fighting?

[296] Big boxing match?

[297] The time of our lives.

[298] You're going to M .M. fight in Vegas.

[299] Okay.

[300] We're going to finally, we've been getting along so well through the quarantine that we're just going to have a huge fight in the middle of downtown Las Vegas.

[301] That'll be very cathartic, like right by the fat burger that we went to that time when we did the show.

[302] Yeah.

[303] What about you?

[304] I just think I should start drinking again and go straight to a bar, a terrible bar, like an old man bar that no one wants me there.

[305] Yeah.

[306] And I just sidle right up, right up to the bar, elbow people out of the way.

[307] Yeah.

[308] And I'm just like, see that bottle of creamed mint?

[309] Bring that Oh, and then Karen is gone.

[310] I just go back to drinking the most disgusting beverages I can.

[311] What if you just drink really low alcohol percentage trash?

[312] And that's like, you never get drunk, yeah, peach knobs mixed with crem to mint.

[313] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[314] Absolutely.

[315] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[316] Exactly.

[317] Exactly.

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[334] Goodbye.

[335] All right.

[336] Let's do this thing.

[337] Okay.

[338] I have a story to tell you and it's incredibly terrible which I think is what you're going to like about it.

[339] Okay.

[340] This one we've never done before it's obviously that be weird of like, I'm going to do the one you did last week.

[341] This is one I've actually done before and so I'm really excited to tell you again about it.

[342] I just want to, this is a quick reminder of the one you just did.

[343] No, I've actually I almost did this one before but it was very long and involved and kind of intimidating.

[344] So I knew from the quilt episode that I would have time.

[345] I would have time for Jay to do the research.

[346] Jay Elias, by the way, is he works for us.

[347] He works at exactly right, but then he also does my research and he's so great at it.

[348] So thank you, Jay.

[349] Once again.

[350] So this week I'm covering the murder of Sherry Rasmussen.

[351] Oh, wow.

[352] Okay.

[353] Okay.

[354] Let's dive in.

[355] I love it.

[356] I hate this murder.

[357] I love this story.

[358] Yeah.

[359] Right?

[360] Yeah.

[361] That's usually how it goes.

[362] Yeah.

[363] So in 2012, a writer named Mark Bowden wrote an article for Vanity Fair called A Case So Cold It Was Blue.

[364] And so that's an amazing article if you want to read it.

[365] We also used research from the Los Angeles Magazine article.

[366] by a writer named Steve Mickelan.

[367] It was from 2012 and called In Plain Sight.

[368] There was an article on the website Crime Library written by Tricia Romano.

[369] And of course, there's an exhaustive Wikipedia page about this case.

[370] I should tell the story probably that we were supposed to record at 6.

[371] And right around that time, I was finishing up final notes on this.

[372] And then my computer stream, screen turned very dark blue so it wasn't off the screen just died and for five full minutes I thought that like the computer screen had gone out and then finally I was able to turn it off and turn it back on the classic fix and when it came back on the document was in its original form four hours previous after four hours of work and it was very upsetting and then slowly but surely, it renewed itself.

[373] So the most recent version came back, a lot of drama.

[374] So we start here on the morning of Monday, February 24th, 1986.

[375] Sherry Rasmussen wakes up in her Van Nuys condo alongside her new husband, John Rutton.

[376] They're newlyweds.

[377] They'd just gotten married three months earlier.

[378] She's the director of nursing at Glendale Adventist Medical Center in Glendale, California.

[379] And she's supposed to be going to work that day because she has to give a speech for human resources.

[380] They're doing a class in human resources and she's supposed to give like an inspirational speech.

[381] But she kind of isn't feeling up to it because she injured her back working out the day before.

[382] So she's considering using that as an excuse to just take the day off and call in sick.

[383] So around 720 in the morning when John leaves for work to go to work at the engineering company that he works at.

[384] She's still laying in bed.

[385] So around 9 .45, one of Sherry and John's neighbors notices that their garage is open.

[386] There's no car inside.

[387] Then around 10 a .m., John calls the house to check in with Sherry, but there's no answer.

[388] And he notices the answering machine doesn't go on.

[389] So for all the children that don't know what that means, when back long ago, your answering machine lived outside of your phone it was a big huge weird like tape recorder and you could turn it on and off so obviously they turned theirs off and she was before she left her work she was supposed to turn it on so it hadn't been turned on but that was something she'd forgotten to do before so he didn't really it didn't click with him and he didn't really think much about it instead he just tries Sherry at work but there the person he talks to tells them that Sherry hasn't arrived yet.

[390] She said that Sherry most likely went straight to that HR class and didn't come into her office.

[391] So John tries Sherry at home again a couple more times throughout the day, as does Sherry's sister.

[392] Each time, no one answers.

[393] Around 12 noon, there are two gardeners who are working on the condo grounds and they find a purse.

[394] So they give it to one of the neighbors, a husband and wife.

[395] they look the husband and wife look inside and they realize that the purse belongs to sherry rasmussen around 1230 p .m. a maid who's cleaning another neighbor's condo here's two people arguing coming from the direction of sherry and john's unit followed by a thump and what sounds like a hard fall that maid doesn't hear anything else assumes it was just a normal argument that people sometimes have and she just continues on with her day so um john John is on his way home from work.

[396] He does some errands first.

[397] He stops at the dry cleaners.

[398] He stops at the UPS store.

[399] When he finally gets home, he sees their garage door is open.

[400] And Sherry's BMW, which was his engagement gift to her, is gone.

[401] Wow.

[402] So then he notices there's broken glass in the driveway.

[403] So like recently Sherry had dinged her car door.

[404] And so John thinks maybe she accidentally hit something while she was pulling out of the driveway.

[405] Right.

[406] and broke one of the car windows.

[407] You know how your brain just kind of tries to put a story together?

[408] Yeah.

[409] Not jump to the craziest conclusion.

[410] Yeah.

[411] Just like, oh, this could be what happened.

[412] But then as he walks in the through the garage door and up the stairs, he sees that the door leading into their living room is open.

[413] And now all of these separate minor details of the day suddenly add up and panic sets in.

[414] He rushes up the stairs only to find Sherry's lifeless.

[415] lying face up on the living room floor.

[416] She's still wearing her robe from that morning.

[417] Her face is swollen and she's covered in blood.

[418] John then realizes that she has bullet wounds in her chest.

[419] He checks her pulse.

[420] He can't find one and he immediately calls the police.

[421] The investigative team arrives and it's led by a detective Lyle Mayer.

[422] So they determine that Sherry has been shot in the chest three times with a 38 caliber gun.

[423] There's a bruise on her face that suggests.

[424] she was hit with the gun before being shot.

[425] There's a quilted blanket with blast holes lying nearby that indicate the killer used it as a makeshift silencer.

[426] And they find a bite mark on Sherry's left inner forearm.

[427] They swab that for saliva and they make a dental mold for later analysis.

[428] So investigators see that there's clear signs of fight took place.

[429] There's a porcelain vase that looks like it was broken over Sherry's head.

[430] There's a stereo speaker that's been knocked to the floor.

[431] There's the shelving of a display cabinet is knocked off its brackets.

[432] And the TV's amplifier and receiver are both just hanging by their cords.

[433] And then at the bottom of the stairs leading to the second floor, there's a VCR and a CD player.

[434] They're neatly stacked as if someone was planning on taking them.

[435] And the CD player has blood smears on top of it, which match the blood smears on the east, wall and the front door.

[436] And on the second floor, the back balcony sliding glass doors have been shattered.

[437] So this is the glass that John saw in the driveway.

[438] But there's no signs of forced entry.

[439] Nothing appears to be actually stolen except for John and Sherry's marriage license.

[440] What?

[441] So John's questioned, of course, because, you know, the husband.

[442] And he recounts his day.

[443] It's clear to investigators.

[444] He's not a person of interest.

[445] that, you know, his alibi can be proven by many people.

[446] They question the neighbors, and then they learn about the disturbance the maid heard.

[447] They learn about the open garage door, and they learn about Sherry's purse being found by the gardeners.

[448] So after a few hours, and basically with John's alibi in place, Detective Mayer tells John that he believes Sherry was the victim of a burglary gone wrong just around 10 a .m. that day.

[449] So a week later, Sherry's BMW is found abandoned on the street in Van Nuys.

[450] It was unlocked and the keys were in the ignition.

[451] Investigators are able to pull a couple fingerprints from the car and a spot of blood and also a single brown hair, but those clues yield no immediate results.

[452] And then over the course of the next few weeks, police continue interviewing neighbors, family members, friends, co -workers, and a picture of Sherry's life begins to come into focus.

[453] So Sherry Rasmussen is originally from Tucson, Arizona, but she moved to Los Angeles in 1973 to study critical care nursing at Loma Linda University when she's just 16 years old.

[454] Wow.

[455] So she's really, really smart.

[456] She excels in school, and she's on a fast track to a promising nursing career.

[457] By her late 20s, Sherry's been promoted to the director of nursing at Glendale Adventist.

[458] She's also an avid runner, an athlete.

[459] She's really beautiful and she's really confident.

[460] And so in the summer of 1984, when she meets the handsome, talkative, 25 -year -old John Rutton, it doesn't take long for sparks to fly.

[461] So John's originally from San Diego.

[462] He moved to Los Angeles to study mechanical engineering at UCLA.

[463] He graduated in 1982, and he is head over heels in love with Sherry.

[464] and they date for about a year and a half and then in November of 1985 they get married but it's of course as any marriage all is not as perfect as it seems except for mine and vincest except for Georgia and vences even though she wouldn't take his last name I don't know why anyway just weeks before John and Sherry's wedding they could visit by an old friend of John's named Stephanie Lazarus So Stephanie has dark hair in an athletic frame And she shows up unannounced one day Carrying a pair of water skis Asking if John will wax them for her Not waxing anyone's fucking water skis husband So Sherry immediately suspects John is cheating on her With this woman John assures her he is not He says that they were just old college friends And that while they used to sleep together Every once in a while, Stephanie was never his girlfriend.

[465] Either way, Sherry sees through this kind of wax.

[466] My skis ploy as a way for her to get FaceTime with John.

[467] She basically tells John, don't do that.

[468] Like, just say no. But he says, it's just better if I do it now and then just she'll go away.

[469] But of course, she doesn't.

[470] So when Stephanie shows up again unannounced to pick up her skis, which are just like basic manners of weird this weird popping in on people no um that the what yeah on an ex no on an ex or even like a a friend just kind of like hey i'm here right very suspicious so john basically gives the skis back and then sherry just asks her to leave she's just like yeah you're not hanging out so stephanie leaves a but a few weeks later she shows up again but this time she's in uniform complete with a gun on her hip because it turns out Stephanie Lazarus is an LAPD police officer She's dropped by the house At a time of day when Sherry's usually already left for work And John is still at the house But this morning John had left early and Sherry was still there So Sherry is immediately like This is not good This is a very bad thing And basically she's just like, you need to get out of here to Stephanie.

[471] And of course, now her suspicion that her husband's having an affair with this woman grows into a real fear.

[472] And that fear is confirmed when Sherry gets a third unannounced visit from Stephanie Lazarus.

[473] This time, it's at Sherry's work.

[474] Oh, no. So apparently Stephanie Lazarus just walks into Glendale Adventist Medical Center right past the front desk.

[475] And she just walks straight into Sherry's office.

[476] And if that's not weird enough, She's wearing, like, tight short shorts and a tube top.

[477] Mm -mm.

[478] Mm -hmm.

[479] Which is, that's insane.

[480] No matter what the scenario, that is bizarre.

[481] Bizarre.

[482] Yeah.

[483] Unless you're going to, like, a roller rink.

[484] Right.

[485] Not a hospital.

[486] Yeah.

[487] No. So she's, she basically goes there and tells Sherry things are not over between her and John.

[488] Shit.

[489] And essentially before she leaves, she makes this ominous declaration.

[490] She tells Sherry, if I can't have John, no one else can.

[491] Oh, I ve.

[492] So now Sherry doesn't know what to believe or what to do.

[493] She's super worried and confused.

[494] So she calls her father, Nels Rasmussen.

[495] He's still back in Tucson.

[496] And she confides in him about this insane situation.

[497] She not only tells her dad about Stephanie's disturbing visit.

[498] but she also says that she thinks Stephanie has been stalking her.

[499] So Nell's is a very protective father, and he's also never really been a fan of John's.

[500] He always thought John was too soft to properly take care of Sherry.

[501] And now that he hears this story, he's convinced he was right, because John clearly doesn't have the guts to stand up to this weird ex.

[502] And even worse, Nels thinks John's cheating on his daughter.

[503] So in the aftermath of Sherry's murder, when Detective Mayer interviews Nels and his wife Loretta, Nels's first question is, have you looked into John's ex -girlfriend, the lady cop?

[504] And Detective Meyer immediately dismisses the idea telling Nell's he watches too many detective shows.

[505] Oh, my, to a newly grieving father of deceased.

[506] But also just as an investigator, why wouldn't you keep everything open?

[507] You're trying to solve a murder case.

[508] So, anyway, John Rutton meets Stephanie.

[509] So this is a little history between the two John and Stephanie Lazarus.

[510] So they met sometime around 1978, 79.

[511] They're both undergrads at UCLA, and they're both in the same dorm.

[512] Stephanie is originally from Seamy Valley, so she's a local.

[513] She was there studying political science.

[514] she also played on UCLA's JV.

[515] Women's Basketball team.

[516] And then after she graduates, she applies to the LA Police Academy.

[517] And by 1983, she'd become an L .A. PD officer.

[518] According to John, he and Stephanie were just basically just friends.

[519] They had like the same big friend group.

[520] Although he admits that she did do things like steal John's clothes while he was in the shower.

[521] And she would take pictures of him in his underwear while he slept.

[522] that was when that was when they were friends and then after a few years sometime around 1981 they start sleeping together so they just kind of are hooking up off and on for the next three years during which time John estimates they had sex somewhere between 20 or 30 times and he maintains that they were never dating I'm sure she was fine with that well yeah she just she didn't see it that way She actually believed that they were in a relationship.

[523] So then when she finds out that John is seriously dating Sherry Rasmussen and I think she basically found out that they had gotten engaged, it's a total shock to her.

[524] So she falls into a deep depression.

[525] She's really brokenhearted over this piece of news that John's gotten engaged.

[526] She even writes a letter to John's mother in August.

[527] 1985 saying, quote, I'm truly in love with John and the past year has torn me up.

[528] I wish it didn't end the way it did and I don't think I'll ever understand his decision.

[529] Here's what I have to say about this.

[530] Because I've actually heard of people doing this, reaching out to people's family members, especially their mothers when someone breaks up with them.

[531] If someone breaks up with you that don't go on a letter writing campaign to their mother or any family member.

[532] Yeah.

[533] You just accept it even if you don't like it for your future self don't go begging like what what's the end game there he's going to show back up at your door going hey I don't want to be with you but my mom wants me to my mom talked to me and do it it's just that grieving when you get broken up with it's hard to handle rejection no one no one likes rejection but what you're basically doing is going I don't accept your feelings right and you your feelings about me either never were there in the first place and you're letting me know, or they've changed and you're letting me know.

[534] Either way, the person's saying no thanks.

[535] There's no other answer to that.

[536] There just isn't.

[537] Even no matter what your feelings are, you just got to like, you just got to play the dignity card and just like, you know, here's a thing.

[538] There's 7 .8 billion people in the world.

[539] So you're going to find somebody else that smells really good and likes the same Netflix shows as you.

[540] like you're going to be okay eventually.

[541] Yeah, you are.

[542] Block off six months to be insane, but don't be insane with his mother.

[543] Yeah.

[544] They don't need to know about the insanity, and they won't.

[545] I know so many people who do that thing were like, I was really close with this mom, so we've been talking.

[546] And it's like, it's not going to work.

[547] It's making you look crazier.

[548] Like, it's that plan doesn't ever work.

[549] So anyway, sorry to you about your breakup.

[550] Okay.

[551] So shortly after this, and only weeks before John and Sherry's wedding, Stephanie begs John to come to her condo in Woodland Hills to talk.

[552] And he does, and the two of them end up having sex.

[553] And John later says he did it to give Stephanie a sense of closure.

[554] That doesn't, that's not how.

[555] That's bullshit, buddy.

[556] Yeah.

[557] So he said she.

[558] For a sacrifice for him.

[559] Right.

[560] Yeah, exactly.

[561] Yeah, so if you're breaking up with a girl and then you think, oh, this is going to be my last great gift, like you're giving her, here's all your sweaters back or something.

[562] If your last great gift includes you having an orgasm, it's not a gift.

[563] Yeah, no, no. That's a gift to you.

[564] That's right.

[565] That's your gift.

[566] That's right.

[567] But you can give yourself elsewhere.

[568] That's right.

[569] John actually said, quoted saying she was upset, I felt bad, I was a stupid and young man. But when Stephanie starts showing up at John and Sherry's condo, that's when it becomes clear to John that his sense of closure rationale was self -serving and short -sighted.

[570] So when Detective Mayer talks to John again, John tells the detective that he doesn't have any problems with his ex -girlfriends.

[571] he says there's no reason to suspect Stephanie Lazarus of being involved.

[572] John's simultaneously grieving over the loss of his wife.

[573] He's at odds with his disapproving father -in -law.

[574] And for good reason, John waited a day to tell the parents, Sherry's parents, that she'd been murdered.

[575] Why?

[576] So they're livid.

[577] I mean, they're already livid.

[578] And, of course, grieving themselves.

[579] I wonder what the thought process was behind that.

[580] Yeah.

[581] Did it just, like, he wasn't thinking straight or what?

[582] That's awful.

[583] Yeah, I don't know.

[584] But they're, you know, they're furious, of course.

[585] All of this makes Detective Mayor sympathetic towards John.

[586] So he takes his word for it about Stephanie, quote unquote.

[587] Cool.

[588] Another officer points to the bite mark that's found on Sherry's arm as a sign that a woman may have been involved in her murder since that's an injury that's typically inflicted by women.

[589] Mayor notes it's not entirely unheard of for a man to bite during an attack, and ultimately he sticks to his burglary theory.

[590] So this is one of those things, too, where he was like, it's either the husband or it's a burglary gone wrong.

[591] And since it's not the husband, now this is what it is.

[592] And I'm not looking anywhere else.

[593] And I'm certainly not looking at a fellow police officer.

[594] Of course.

[595] So Detective Mayor, he shows Sherry's parents, the Rosmison, sketches of what he calls two possible Latin male.

[596] suspects.

[597] Nell's pushes back on the theory of the burglary gone wrong.

[598] He says that he tells Detective Meyer that he himself had said that the destruction in the condo indicates the struggle may have lasted as long as an hour and a half.

[599] Because there's so much damage to the condo.

[600] And he says, Sherry was fit but she wasn't strong enough to fight off two grown men for upwards of an hour.

[601] Yeah.

[602] Plus the shots to the chest through a makeshift silencer seem more like a calculated assassination like someone was planning to kill rather than a burglary gone wrong because that would just be like oh someone surprised them and shot them.

[603] Yeah.

[604] Wouldn't take the time to silence the gun.

[605] Totally.

[606] So the supposed Latin male suspects are never found and soon the LAPD turns their focus to the ongoing crack epidemic at the 80s.

[607] So because that overshadowed everything, cases like Sherry Rasmussen's murder are neglected.

[608] Nells and Loretta Rasmussen repeatedly try to follow up with the police over the next two years, pushing them to follow the Stephanie Lazarus lead.

[609] So eventually on November 19th, 1987, which is a year and a half after the murder, one of the investigators finally calls Stephanie Lazarus on the phone.

[610] They quickly rule her out from that conversation.

[611] And those details from the conversation are never shared.

[612] They're never written up into a report.

[613] the only part of the case's official report that mentions Stephanie Lazarus is a line that reads, quote, John Rutten called verified Stephanie Lazarus, P .O., which means police officer, was former girlfriend.

[614] So Nels and Loretta keep pushing for justice.

[615] They post a $10 ,000 reward for information on Sherry's murder, and they participate in a segment on a show that was called Murder One that features Sherry's unsolved case.

[616] In 1993, after being told the police department does not have enough money in the budget to test the blood and hair samples because, of course, DNA testing had begun in the early 90s.

[617] Nell's offers to pay for the DNA testing himself.

[618] But before he gets a chance to, a detective named Phil Morritt signs out all the forensic samples at the LA County Coroner's Office that may have been useful to the, the case.

[619] It is possible more it signed out the samples from several cases to take to the lab for testing, which would have been standard procedure.

[620] But he himself, one later asked, doesn't remember signing out the samples.

[621] And now those samples are nowhere to be found.

[622] Okay.

[623] And like this is the point where it's like, you're protecting a police officer.

[624] That when someone's ready to finally do it and you give him this blasé excuse about it not having enough money and the person's like, well, I'll fucking pay for it.

[625] And then they disappear, that's shaking.

[626] It's always bad when, when material evidence disappears.

[627] That's because it's in custody.

[628] It's in police hands.

[629] So how else would that happen?

[630] Right.

[631] I mean, they, sometimes it's like, oh, they clean something out or there's a fire, there's water damage, there's some excuse.

[632] But nobody was making any excuses.

[633] It was just kind of like it's gone.

[634] Right.

[635] So in the years following Sherry's murder, Stephanie Lazarus continues working for the LAPD.

[636] She's promoted up from patrol.

[637] Now she's working in the DARE program.

[638] She is promoted from there to the homicide unit, from there to internal affairs, and eventually she starts working for the art theft division.

[639] She is considered a tough and tenacious detective, yet friendly, and she's well -liked.

[640] And so basically, everybody that works with her, you know, she gets along well with her co -workers.

[641] So here's a weird kind of strange twist.

[642] In 1989, Stephanie and John reconnect.

[643] Stephanie invites John on a scuba trip to Hawaii.

[644] Before leaving for that trip, John calls Detective Meyer, and he asks him if he's absolutely sure there's no evidence linking Stephanie to Sherry's murder.

[645] He just wants to make sure, right?

[646] So Meyer assures him there isn't.

[647] Dude.

[648] And John goes to Hawaii with Stephanie.

[649] Oh, my God.

[650] So a few years later, John remarries and he starts a family.

[651] Stephanie also gets married, and she marries a fellow police officer, and they start a family.

[652] She continues to succeed in her career.

[653] It's noted that she's never received a citizen complaint or a disciplinary hearing, and she's starting to, She's really making a name for herself in the LAPD.

[654] So then in 2001, now that, like, the crack epidemic has subsided, kind of everything else is calming down.

[655] The LAPD creates their cold case homicide unit.

[656] So in 2004, a cold case criminalist named Jennifer Francis picks up Sherry's case, and she discovers something very troubling.

[657] The saliva swab that was taken from Sherry's.

[658] arm and marked down in the report isn't available in the evidence archive, and it isn't in the list of samples that Moore signed out back in 1993.

[659] It's gone.

[660] So she calls up the coroner's office, Jennifer Francis, the criminologist.

[661] She calls up the coroner's office and they say they don't have a sample on file either, but they agree to search their freezers just in case it's fallen through the cracks.

[662] And lo and behold, they're in the back of one of the freezers at the coroner's office in a manila envelope, which is not properly labeled.

[663] There's no case number on it, but it does have the name Rasmussen written on it in 18 -year -old ink.

[664] Inside, there are two sealed saliva swabs.

[665] Holy shit.

[666] So this kind of like lost evidence actually gets found, which is a miracle.

[667] So Francis has these swabs tested, and she gets the results back in January of 2005.

[668] There are no hits in the system for the system.

[669] DNA, but she does learn that the saliva belonged to a woman.

[670] So, she's unaware of the Rasmussen's suspicions about Stephanie Lazarus.

[671] There's nothing on any report that mentions her.

[672] And she does know that the now retired detective mayor suspected to quote unquote Latin men.

[673] That's the phrase he used with Latin men.

[674] So she asks her colleagues, if this new information upends that initial burglary theory, but these colleagues quickly point out that one of the burglars could have been a woman.

[675] So it's fine.

[676] Don't worry about it.

[677] They box the case back up and it remains unsolved for another four years.

[678] No, they were so close.

[679] It goes right back in.

[680] And apparently it's a whole separate story and it's all, you know, it's all about this kind of serious internal corruption, LAPD.

[681] But Jennifer Francis, she had a lot of disciplinary and she had a really hard time after that because she kept trying to track down and wanting to investigate this case and find out what, like, what all of this meant.

[682] But there were roadblocks and shit because of that.

[683] Lots of roadblocks, lots of, lots of issues within the department.

[684] Okay.

[685] So now we go to February of 2009.

[686] So with a dramatic decline in the L .A. homicide rates, two more detectives named Jim Nuttall and Pete Barba, they dive back into Sherry, Asmason's cold case.

[687] And they noticed that the saliva sample being from a woman is inconsistent with that original burglary theory.

[688] But this time, they officially reopened the case.

[689] So they treat it as a murder stage to look like a burglary because the evidence that they have fits that theory.

[690] Because they were saying, you know, as they look at everything, they think if someone was trying, just trying to rob John and Sherry, they easily could have taken Sherry's jewelry box, which was out in plain sight.

[691] Plus, the condo was a gated complex, so it would have been easy for the neighbors to spot two burglars, you know, walking around at 10 a .m. Yeah.

[692] But no one saw anyone.

[693] And as Detective Meyer noted, there were no signs of forced entry, which indicates that whoever came into the condo just walked right in.

[694] But now these new cold case detectives discover something even more telling that if the fight between Sherry and the intruder did actually start upstairs and work its way downstairs as mayor originally thought, it's likely that that VCR and CD player that were stacked up there at the bottom of the stairs would have been knocked down in the process.

[695] Right.

[696] Plus, the blood smear found on top of the CD player was printless.

[697] It was a thumb mark, but it was printless, which means that somebody was wearing that the blood belonged to Sherry but clearly somebody was wearing gloves when they put that there and that means that those things were stacked after Sherry was killed to make it look like someone was trying to rob the place right so with all this in mind Nuttall and Barba devise a new theory that Sherry was upstairs at home when an intruder walked in through the unlocked front entrance and surprised Sherry upstairs.

[698] So the intruder fires two shots at Sherry but misses and instead shoots out the sliding glass door, which would then explain the glass that's down in the driveway that John saw when he first pulled up and thought somehow was connected to the car.

[699] Sherry makes a run for it downstairs.

[700] She tries to hit the home alarm system's panic button, but the intruder grabs her and they struggle.

[701] Sherry manages to get the intruder in a headlock.

[702] the intruder bites her arm and then with the other hand grabs a vase and smashes it over Sherry's head stunning her and then now free the intruder takes the gun and fires it at close range into Sherry's chest but that's not enough she grabs the quilt holds it to Sherry's chest and fires two more shots then before leaving the intruder stacks up the VCR and CD players to make it look like a botched robbery steals Sherry's BMW and then later abandons it.

[703] So armed with this new theory, the investigators combed through the case files again to try to find female suspects.

[704] They pin down four other potential suspects when they come across the line from Detective Myers report from November 19, 1987 that says John Routon called verified Stephanie Lazarus, P .O. was former girlfriend.

[705] They search the LAPD Department directory.

[706] They find Stephanie Lazarus was and still is an LAPD officer and that she's currently working in the art theft division.

[707] So not all on Barba eventually rule out the four, the other suspects, including a coworker who Sherry had had arguments with in the past.

[708] And because their remaining suspect is a police officer, they have to operate very carefully and very discreetly.

[709] So they mark the case classified and the only refer to Stephanie Lazarus as number five.

[710] So upon further investigation, the evidence begins to add up against Stephanie Lazarus.

[711] She was off duty on the day of the murder, and the murder weapon matched her personal weapon, which was a 38 caliber Smith and Wesson.

[712] Fuck.

[713] Then they find out in March of 1986, a few weeks after the murder, Stephanie Lazarus reported that her personal 38 caliber Smith and Wesson had been stolen.

[714] So now the officers are convinced there's a good chance that they may have their killer here.

[715] So they go on they go to their commanding officers in May of that year and they basically get their bosses to authorize a special ops team to tail Stephanie Lazarus.

[716] So they follow her to Costco one day um and she eats there so after she leaves the officers retrieve a cup and a straw that she used from the trash they take it back to the lab and they test it and two days later the results come back stephanie lazarus's DNA is a confirmed match with the saliva of sample taken from sherry rasmussen's arm amazing okay so now they have to devise a plan to question a fellow police officer without raising her suspicions.

[717] So basically what they do is they get their they get like the top boss or whatever the like the police chief to get in on this and they order her down to the lockup which is in the basement of department headquarters telling her that they need her there to question a suspect about an art theft.

[718] So she thinks she's going down to join like an interrogation already in you know that's already happening.

[719] And this is so that other, to like maintain the, her privacy kind of.

[720] So no one.

[721] This is so that they don't hip her to the fact that she's the suspect.

[722] So because in lockup, all police have to check their guns.

[723] No one can bring their guns into lockup.

[724] So she couldn't bring her weapon in, which is what they needed.

[725] They needed to get that weapon off of her in case when she, when she realized she was being questioned for this cold case, she didn't pull her gun on the, on the officers.

[726] Wow.

[727] Yeah.

[728] So on the morning of June 5th, 2009, detectives Dan Jaramillo and Greg Sterns ask Stephanie to join them in the lockup.

[729] She's excited by the prospect of questioning a potential art thief.

[730] She follows them downstairs.

[731] She hands over her weapon per procedure.

[732] They all have a friendly chat.

[733] And Stephanie's only slightly confused when they ask her to take the seat that would normally be the suspect's chair.

[734] So they talk casually for like an hour.

[735] until they finally land on the subject of John Rutten.

[736] So Stephanie is trying to be helpful at first.

[737] She tells the detectives, yes, she did know him.

[738] They were friends in college, that they dated, but they talk about it so much.

[739] She starts getting suspicious.

[740] And she finally says, what's this all about?

[741] They tell her it's about his wife.

[742] And they ask Stephanie if she knew her.

[743] And she's like, she says, quote, not really.

[744] I mean, I knew that he got married years ago.

[745] God, I mean, it's been a long time.

[746] I may have met her.

[747] And then she's like shrugging.

[748] You know, she's clearly annoyed, but she continues the conversation.

[749] She says, I wouldn't, I couldn't even tell you the last time I talked to him.

[750] It was kind of a weird relationship.

[751] We dated.

[752] I can't say he was my boyfriend.

[753] I don't know if he would have considered me a girlfriend.

[754] We just dated.

[755] So Jermiloh and Stearns continue pressing her about, um, any sort of like heated exchanges that they may have had any fights.

[756] Stephanie tells them she doesn't remember any, but soon her tone changes from friendly to sharp and she outright calls them out on suspecting her of Sherry's murder.

[757] And she says, quote, if you guys are claiming that I'm a suspect, then I've got a problem with that, okay?

[758] So if you're doing this as an interrogation and you're saying, hey, I'm a suspect, now I got a problem, you know?

[759] Now you're accusing me of this?

[760] Is that what you're saying?

[761] So the detectives tell that she's not under arrest that she can walk out anytime she wants and then they ask her she'd be up for a DNA test she says maybe and then says she has to speak to a lawyer first so soon after that she stands up abruptly she acts super pissed she's offended that she's been targeted and she walks out but the second she gets out into the hallway she's handcuffed and Detective Jermelo reads her her rights and 23 years after Sherry Rasmussen was violently murdered in her home, Stephanie Lazarus is arrested.

[762] So when she's in custody, Lazarus is allowed to, quote, retire early from the LAPD.

[763] And then she's held for six months before her bail is set at a whopping $10 million.

[764] Wow.

[765] Okay, so Stephanie's defense lawyer, he tries to have the entire case dismissed saying that because police failed to identify Stephanie, as a suspect in the initial investigation that the whole thing should be thrown out That's not how things work because they didn't think it was you then you don't have to ever Yeah It doesn't count Parts of the original case file are missing As we know Like interview recordings Sherry's blood toxicology report A polygraph test that John Rutten had failed And because 23 years have passed The defense argues that the remaining evidence has degraded and thus denying Lazarus of her due process.

[766] The judge denies that motion.

[767] The trial starts in early 2012.

[768] So the prosecution builds this argument around the love triangle.

[769] John admits to having sex with Stephanie while he was engaged to Sherry.

[770] But the defense argues that Stephanie had actually been dating several other men during the time as well.

[771] And those men she did mention in her private journals.

[772] and that the defense said that Stephanie was not as distraught over John as the prosecution is making it seem.

[773] But, and then they pull out those letters to his mom.

[774] Oh, no. No, no, no. Sorry, I'm making that up.

[775] I mean, I'm sure they did at some point because it's just like, are you kidding me?

[776] Right.

[777] Anyway, the story that the defense team crafts is no match for the DNA evidence in the prosecution's hands.

[778] and after a few days of deliberation, the jury finds 52 -year -old Stephanie Lazarus guilty of murder in the first degree.

[779] On March 8th, 2012, Stephanie Lazarus is convicted of first -degree murder of Sherry Rasmussen, and on May 11th, she's sentenced to 27 years to life.

[780] Wow.

[781] So Nels and Loretta Rasmussen file a lawsuit against the LAPD, alleging a cover -up benefiting Stephanie Lazarus, unfortunately, is thrown out because of the...

[782] statute of limitations.

[783] Right.

[784] So because no one investigates this murder in any meaningful way, right.

[785] Then later on, they can't get in trouble for not having investigated the murder, which doesn't make a ton of sense.

[786] Yeah, because the timer went off on how long you had to fucking solve it.

[787] Right.

[788] Also, criminalist Jennifer Francis files a lawsuit against the LAPD, alleging that the detective that was supervising her purposefully steered her away from Stephanie Lazarus as a suspect.

[789] In the years following her discovery, Francis claims to have encountered punishment and retaliation for pursuing that lead.

[790] Ultimately, though, in that case, the jury sides with the city of Los Angeles, and she does not win that case.

[791] Wow.

[792] So Stephanie Lazarus remains in prison at the California Institution for women in Corona, California.

[793] She'll be eligible for parole in 2034.

[794] Nels and Loretta Rasmussen were relieved to see their suspicions were correct and that their daughter's killer was convicted.

[795] On April 20th, 2019, a writer named Matthew McGoff released a nearly 600 -page book detailing the case of Sherry Rasmussen's murder entitled The Lazarus Files, a cold case investigation.

[796] And when asked in an interview with the L .A. Times, If he believes that Stephanie Lazarus actively destroyed the evidence against her, or if she had help from other police inside the department, McGough says that he believes it's, quote, an open question.

[797] And he states, quote, when Stephanie was arrested, the LAPD promised it would do an investigation into what went wrong.

[798] That never happened.

[799] Is that an oversight or is that something else more intentional?

[800] It's certainly evocative of what happened in 1986.

[801] A couple of years later, they stated their reinvestigation found no evidence of any intentional cover -up, but no one I spoke with had been contacted by the LAPD.

[802] And that is troubling to me. Nell's Rasmussen passed away on June 20th of this year.

[803] He's remembered as a loving father who relentlessly pursued justice for his daughter, Sherry.

[804] And so I was trying to look up a quote to talk about, like, police corruption.

[805] And obviously, if we're going to talk about police corruption, we're going to talk about things like this, it all leads back to, you know, the police brutality and the kind of cases and the kind of stuff that we've been seeing lately and seeing for a long time.

[806] Systemic racism inside the culture, the culture inside the police force.

[807] And I found this pretty amazing quote, a writer named Mickey Kendall wrote this article in 2015 for the Washington.

[808] Washington Post after Walter Scott was shot in the back in North Charleston, South Carolina, and the person who recorded that murder was too afraid to give that recording to the police because he was afraid then he would be killed too.

[809] Sure, yeah.

[810] And this article is really, really, really well written.

[811] It's about police murder, the police murder of black people and the coverups within it.

[812] And the way this system is breaking down, but it is relevant to all of it.

[813] And this basically, the name of the article is the police can't police themselves.

[814] And usually the Washington Post is behind a paywall.

[815] And this article is not behind a paywall.

[816] So you can read it.

[817] And it's the fact that it's in 2015 and the amount of police murders of black civilians, The amount that she is listing and the different details and how nothing is done or that they got covered up, it's unbelievable.

[818] And it's very prescient to like what we're all now really looking at and really trying to be, do something about these days.

[819] And so here's this quote from this article that is, it's about Walter Scott, but it kind of is about all this in general.

[820] When the system is the problem, individuals cannot be expected to counteract the problem alone, much less accept that the only countermeasures available are in the hands of those with a stake in maintaining the status quo.

[821] If you can't trust the police to serve and protect, how can you trust them to maintain order within their own ranks?

[822] The argument that, quote, not all cops are bad, only works if there's a way to be certain that bad cops are being removed from service, as soon as they're discovered, and that those who report their misbehavior have an assurance of safety.

[823] Amazing.

[824] And that is the story of the murder of Sherry Rasmussen.

[825] Wow.

[826] Wow.

[827] Well, that was heavy.

[828] You did a great job.

[829] It's a tough topic.

[830] Yeah.

[831] Thank you.

[832] I appreciate it.

[833] Should we do some fucking hurrays a little bit?

[834] Yeah.

[835] Okay, here's my first fucking hooray.

[836] This is from Meg underscore the random horse on Instagram.

[837] it says fucking hooray in preparation for a second lockdown in Toronto slash as a half birthday gift for myself my partner and I adopted a gorgeous gray blue kitten who we named Millhouse I'm finally a cat mom and now have a legitimate reason to own so much cat paraphernalia he's the most playful and cuddly boy and I'm so in love yay everyone get a kitten hooray congratulations cat mom let us know how the litter box goes all right here's mine starts heads up my punctuation sucks as does my spelling please don't make fun because I fucking don't care yeah hey then why'd you bring it up it says anyway long time listener first time writing I'm a 60 plus years old timer recovering with a few more years of recovery on me and I also have chronic PTSD with years of counseling under my belt.

[838] So here goes.

[839] Yesterday after my doctor's appointment, I went to the food co -op and noticed an art store across the street.

[840] So I went in.

[841] I was looking at their art books.

[842] I must have spent 10 or so minutes with this one book.

[843] I decided I'd already spent too much money and the book was a bit pricey.

[844] So I put it down and continued looking around the store on my way out.

[845] All of a sudden, this 20 -something young lady came over and gave me the book.

[846] I had no idea what was going on.

[847] She looked at me and said she saw me looking at the book and it looked like I really wanted it so she bought it for me fucking hooray I was about to argue with her but then I remembered my counseling and my sponsor saying just accept the compliment so I looked her in the eyes and said thank you so much that is so nice and then she just disappeared she even left me the receipt so needless to say I hope she is one of us and here's this p .s yes I am now looking to pay it forward thanks for being here.

[848] A year ago, I was in a deep depression and was slightly suicidal.

[849] I turned you on and I don't remember what you two were talking about.

[850] Something mental healthish, I assume.

[851] But when it was over, the ideation had lifted and I have been better since.

[852] Thank you again, Chris.

[853] Oh my God.

[854] That's beautiful on so many levels.

[855] I know.

[856] It's really vulnerable.

[857] It's really fucking honest.

[858] It's all out there.

[859] And then just to basically say this beautiful, thing have to me and it's so hard to accept beautiful things sometimes and I did it.

[860] Great job, Chris.

[861] Incredible.

[862] Thank you for sharing that.

[863] Yeah.

[864] Awesome.

[865] Let's end on that.

[866] I love that.

[867] Okay, good.

[868] Yeah, me too.

[869] Great.

[870] Really good.

[871] Yeah, send us your fucking arrays.

[872] You can just comment on Instagram or Twitter or in the fan cult to tell us your fucking hoorays and thanks for listening, guys.

[873] I hope you had a great Thanksgiving wherever you were whether it was all by yourself or if you have somebody with you or a couple people it's you know I hope you got through it and had some nice some nice food and some good times yeah and hopefully next year will be a huge celebration of how about Thanksgiving in Vegas guys let's fucking do it let's fight in the street in Vegas for Thanksgiving next year That's right.

[874] Stay strong, everybody, wear a mask, and stay sexy.

[875] And don't get murdered.

[876] Goodbye.

[877] Elvis, do you want a cookie?