Jackie Tohn

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to the first episode of 2021.

[1] Brand new year.

[2] Happy New Year.

[3] Happy New Year to you, Monica.

[4] Of course, you're listening to Armchair Expert, and I'm still Dan Rather, and you're still Maximus Malcimus.

[5] That's right.

[6] So far, so the same.

[7] So far, so the same.

[8] We have a friend on today, an old friend.

[9] That's right.

[10] Her name is Jackie Tone.

[11] You heard her on our very first Christmas special because she's an incredible singer and songwriter.

[12] but you also probably know her as Melrose on Glow, which is on Netflix, and she's a new show called Best Leftovers Ever, which is out right now on Netflix, so I hope everyone checks that out.

[13] Can you hear the toilet running in the background of this intro?

[14] Possibly.

[15] Well, that's fun.

[16] We'll try to keep that as a tradition in 2021.

[17] Oh, that's lovely.

[18] The year of the running toilet.

[19] Okay, please enjoy Jackie Tone.

[20] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to all.

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[22] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[23] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[24] He's an armchair expert.

[25] He's an armchair expert.

[26] We haven't sat in this orientation in 11 months.

[27] I know.

[28] I'm so thrilled.

[29] Like we're used to staring at the stupid desk now.

[30] We've become accustomed to...

[31] I miss the desk.

[32] And you guys got the note from my reps. Don't look at my eyes, right?

[33] Make no eye contact with me anyway.

[34] Right.

[35] Okay, great, great.

[36] So we'll be looking at a computer screen anyway just in front of your face.

[37] That's correct.

[38] We'll be running FaceTime, real time, on mute.

[39] So we'll hear it.

[40] What a lovely opportunity that a member of the pod also has a show to promote.

[41] Exactly.

[42] Which gives rise to an in -person real -time interview.

[43] Boy, boy.

[44] Starting off the year with a real -person interview.

[45] A tree.

[46] A member of the pod.

[47] on the pod?

[48] Oh, my God.

[49] How did you miss that?

[50] A pod member on the pot.

[51] Bad news, Jackie.

[52] Your shoes weren't nearly as clean as you thought.

[53] Look under your, look at this.

[54] Oh, that might have already been there.

[55] I got news for you.

[56] Uh -oh.

[57] Wait, we need to get forensics in here.

[58] That was here when I came.

[59] I swear.

[60] There was already a huge pad of mud under the sofa.

[61] Directly under my shoes.

[62] And real dark, like it's wet.

[63] Like it's wet.

[64] Well, so there's two pieces of bad news.

[65] A, you had an existing staying in here.

[66] B, there's a, water leak that's made that moist.

[67] So, a lot going on.

[68] A lot going on and all pointing to, I definitely soiled your rug with my wet mud boots.

[69] But I don't think I did, I swear.

[70] God damn it.

[71] Yeah, but we don't need to point out all the little issues in the attic because we got a lot.

[72] We got a lot.

[73] I got a pee cup.

[74] We got some dirt.

[75] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[76] So the first thing that you noticed, Jackie, was there seems to be a cup of urine on my desk.

[77] And it doesn't even seem to be a cup of urine.

[78] It is clearly one.

[79] 100 % conclusively a cup of urine.

[80] How many days old do you think that urine is?

[81] I'm going to go 11 to 14.

[82] Oh, wow.

[83] I think it's about eight days old.

[84] It was last week.

[85] So we had bringing up to speed, which was I had that.

[86] Well, you tell it, Monty.

[87] So, as everyone remembers from last year, way long ago.

[88] Way, way long ago.

[89] 2020, the year we will never speak up.

[90] No, no, no. Different decade.

[91] Yeah, different decade.

[92] Welcome to the new decade, guys.

[93] Can I just say, can I just, like, throw a controversial sort of opinion in there?

[94] I love 20.

[95] Yeah.

[96] Well, Dax kind of did.

[97] It was a phenomenal 2020 for me. In addition to having two surgeries relapsing, being in quarantine, spending 10 months straight with my kids.

[98] But I'm not letting those things cloud the entire.

[99] Like, such a great year for me also.

[100] And it had a bunch of challenges.

[101] I guess that's I would describe mine exactly the same way.

[102] All the specifics are different.

[103] Other than glow getting canceled or renew reversed, because that's a term I didn't know was even a thing.

[104] Wait, what's renew reverse?

[105] We shot half the season.

[106] Get the fuck out of here.

[107] Oh, he's wild.

[108] That was one of the massive gut punches of other than, you know, 20, 20, just being a garbage fire.

[109] Had you shot half, then Corona happened.

[110] You guys shut down production.

[111] You were going to resume, and they said, you know what, let's not resume.

[112] That's right.

[113] We took a two -week break like everyone else.

[114] We started.

[115] Actually, we only shot two and a half episodes, and we're a 10 -episode order.

[116] So, but we, all the costumes were fit.

[117] Our characters were, everything was there.

[118] All the scripts were written.

[119] everyone was ready.

[120] They already put so much money and that is weird.

[121] Well, can I ask you a greedy monster question and you know what it's going to be?

[122] Yeah, I did and it's fabulous.

[123] Oh, good.

[124] Yeah, Jackie got paid still.

[125] Yeah, they picked up your season so you got paid.

[126] Correct.

[127] We took a two -week break and then we just didn't go back.

[128] And that wasn't even an option in anyone's mind.

[129] It was more just a matter of like, when are we going to go back?

[130] Oh, got pushed again.

[131] Okay, COVID.

[132] Oh, other shows are picking back up.

[133] My friend's making SWAT.

[134] That's like an in -your -face people on each other.

[135] Tackling one another.

[136] Tackling shit.

[137] People getting arrested.

[138] Very breathy.

[139] Very.

[140] So much breathing.

[141] Screaming.

[142] Screaming.

[143] Get down.

[144] I mean, respiratory particles USA is, but it says under, that's what swap means.

[145] Check it out, guys.

[146] Also watch glow.

[147] I don't know.

[148] So it was just wild.

[149] We kept just like waiting to find out when we were going to pick back up.

[150] And then ultimately they were like, we're not.

[151] I know there were some girls on the show who were a little less heartbroken than others.

[152] Just because so much time had passed.

[153] Yeah.

[154] And with TV, a wild thing is, I'm in first position at Glow for as long as it takes to make season four.

[155] If it takes two years, tough shit.

[156] A lot of the girls were like, it's a massive bummer.

[157] We wanted to make Glow more than anything.

[158] But if we were just going to keep being on hold for six -month increments and can't do other work.

[159] And I don't want to get too much into how the sausage is made, but I do think this is fascinating and this does have to evolve.

[160] This is one of my complaints.

[161] So traditionally, you did movies, people did movies, and you're contractually obligated to them for three months while they make the movie and maybe three weeks built in your contract of reshoot.

[162] So, you know, worst case scenario, you're off the market for four months.

[163] Correct.

[164] And then the other option was you run a network television show, which generally shot for nine months of the year, and you were exclusive to them.

[165] Now, you had to ask them if you could do a movie in the summer.

[166] They would give you the right to do that.

[167] But again, you were employed for nine months of the year.

[168] Now, in this new world of streaming and small shows, you're only shooting.

[169] fucking seven, eight weeks a year to make your eight episodes or your 10 episodes, and then they hold you for 48 fucking, and it's not like the old days where you would go do a movie in that period, because there are no movies to go do.

[170] So really what you want to be able to do is go do more limited run TV shows.

[171] This is where I think SAG needs to get their shit together and go, there's no fucking exclusive TV stuff anymore, just like there was no exclusive movie stuff.

[172] Well, you did a Disney movie this year, so you will not do a universal movie this year.

[173] That never existed, but that's kind of what's happening in television and it's horse.

[174] shit.

[175] I am going to take that sound bite and play it for people.

[176] Because it is exactly what we've felt the whole time.

[177] You know, it's also a tricky one because being in this cool position that I'm in right now, I find it challenging to say complaints out loud ever about what I find to be the, I don't know, quote unquote injustices with this business because I'm just so fucking psyched that anyone is taking any time to even look in this direction for minutes.

[178] But then all that said, you get to a certain place and you're like, wow, we are shooting for two and a half months and for nine and a half months, ten months, which like you look at and like that, people go like, wow, actors get paid so well, that one fee is great.

[179] But then the other girls that were talking about it were like, listen, when that work for four months becomes a year, becomes a year and a half, becomes two years.

[180] It's two dollars an hour.

[181] It's correct.

[182] And besides that, you know, as actors and performers and wanting to capitalize on momentum and keep that, keep the vibe going.

[183] From your point of view, if I were you, that would be the single most restrating thing.

[184] It wouldn't have anything actually to do with the money I was losing.

[185] It would be like, I've been out here for 25 fucking years.

[186] Finally, people want me to be in shit, and I can't.

[187] My manager for Season 2 of Glow, who I fired, mostly for this, but for a lot of things, told me not to do Glow season two because he was like, you know, if you turn it down, That's how you have the negotiating leverage and I was like, you realize that I'm 35 and no one's hired me till now, right?

[188] And this is the sound of my speaking voice.

[189] You know I got a specific thing, right?

[190] You know I'm selling just this, right?

[191] And they're buying it.

[192] Well, this is why.

[193] You do have to get back to the pee at some point.

[194] We're going to get back to the pee.

[195] But we're on the wild in person, right?

[196] See, on Zoom, you got to keep it more.

[197] linear because, you know, the communication is so challenging.

[198] Sure.

[199] And is this computer in front of my face distracting you guys or it is good.

[200] No, I feel good about it.

[201] It's made your lighting perfect.

[202] Perfect.

[203] Okay.

[204] So you and I connect so often.

[205] We always have over the years.

[206] We know each other because you and Kristen are friends.

[207] How did you guys become friends originally?

[208] It's crazy.

[209] So Kristen and I met in 2003.

[210] Okay.

[211] Which is a minute ago now.

[212] That's 18 years ago now.

[213] Cuckoo crazy.

[214] So and we met because Andy Fickman, the famed and John, Dolly Motherbucker, who we love so much, director, directed her in a 99 -seat theater production of a show called Snow and directed me in a 99 -seat theater black box production of a show called Jutopia.

[215] Oh, Jutopia.

[216] So Andy was directing both of our little shows, and Kristen came to Jutopia.

[217] I went to Snow, and we were the only women of our girls, actually, we were kids, girls of our age.

[218] And I said to Andy, who was that blonde girl in Snow?

[219] I just loved her.

[220] like, you know, it's so weird, I should give you guys each other's numbers.

[221] She said the same thing about you and Utopia.

[222] And I think she'd just moved here from New York and she didn't like know a super ton of people.

[223] And I don't know if I can say this.

[224] Those were the Kevin days.

[225] Oh, God, yeah.

[226] Oh, no, I talk about Kevin, man. He's a wonderful guy.

[227] He's a wonderful stuff to say about him.

[228] And that's Kristen's ex -boyfriend.

[229] Yeah, and it's a feather in the cap of Kristen and anyone who's dated Kevin.

[230] He's a wonderful.

[231] Handsome as a motherfucker.

[232] Handsome as a motherfucker.

[233] Delightful guy.

[234] Never met him.

[235] Oh, you'd like him.

[236] You've missed out.

[237] What if you started dating Kristen?

[238] I think he's married.

[239] I've already looked into it.

[240] Wow, then you would be officially Kristen's stepdaughter in some weird way.

[241] She'd love that.

[242] Oh, my goodness.

[243] I don't know how that would work, but somehow.

[244] It would.

[245] Yeah, you'd be.

[246] Whatever title you put on it would be right.

[247] So if I was her stepdaughter, then...

[248] Although that makes no sense because you're marrying Kevin.

[249] He's not adopting you.

[250] That was a misfire.

[251] And if he did adopt her would have nothing to do with Chris.

[252] So it wouldn't matter.

[253] But if she is my stepmother, the pee baby is her step grandchild.

[254] Uh -huh.

[255] With her husband.

[256] Oh, my God.

[257] Oh, my God.

[258] Oh, my God.

[259] I'm really sorry.

[260] I just, because ding, ding, ding.

[261] Uh -huh.

[262] Maybe that'll be our second pee baby.

[263] Oh, my goodness.

[264] You're going to have to pee in there as well.

[265] Do you know about peeve baby?

[266] I don't think you do.

[267] No. So Monica's house is just across the street.

[268] Yes, of course.

[269] And we were there touring it and I peed in the toilet.

[270] It turns out the water was shut off.

[271] So it just sat there.

[272] And then, I don't know, two weeks later, Monica said, I had to pee on top of your pee because what else was I going to do?

[273] And then we figured out, we discovered that we had made a pee baby who now lives in that toilet and it's our child.

[274] I'm on throat.

[275] Oh.

[276] Is it actually like a thing of?

[277] It's a child.

[278] It's a baby.

[279] Yeah, it's a beautiful baby.

[280] Be careful because it is our child.

[281] Okay, no, you're right.

[282] And I just want to say about a couple seconds ago when I said that that was going to make me obviously throw up because that's a normal response.

[283] I want to apologize for that because it feels based on both of your facial expressions that I was way off.

[284] We love this baby a lot.

[285] Pea baby and she, it's a she.

[286] And we worry about her because she's lonely and she lives in a toilet.

[287] And there's no other pee babies to be friends with.

[288] Right.

[289] No brother.

[290] No. Well until now.

[291] Monica Pee and that come.

[292] Pea brother.

[293] Oh no. Okay.

[294] So you and Bell became really good buddies.

[295] Yes.

[296] And then of course 13 years.

[297] years ago, or 13 and a half years ago, I started dating Bell.

[298] Wait, 13 years ago?

[299] Yeah, a little more, a little more.

[300] Wait, that's crazy.

[301] Wait, does it feel longer or shorter to you?

[302] I can't tell.

[303] In the moment that you said that, I feel like I've known you my whole life, but in that moment, I was like, that felt longer than it had been.

[304] Because I also remember sitting on the bench outside her house in the valley, and you guys had briefly broken up, and I went over there, and there were dogs everywhere.

[305] And I was just being a homie and it was not great.

[306] And then it was great when you got back together.

[307] So I'm trying to get to the point where you and I share so much similarities, I think.

[308] So many.

[309] I'll label them for myself is mostly my character defects.

[310] But like we see each other.

[311] Yeah, that's deeply true.

[312] Like we'll all be in a circle and someone will say something.

[313] And she knows that the worst part of me just went like, fuck this guy.

[314] This fucking guy wants all the attention.

[315] he thinks he's got a fucking clever story and I'll just look over and Jackie's like watching it all register okay now he's jealous now he's mad now he's this but then I'm feeling similar things of like all right well this guy can tone it down and maybe give someone else a little bit of a moment to shine and then we look we make eye contact but I think in our older age like we've both gotten pretty good at biting our tongues and just having some self -esteem yeah that's true too I believe this is why you and I believe relate so much is that I like you, you just mentioned you were 35 and got on your show finally.

[316] And I was acting since I was nine.

[317] Yes.

[318] And I was out here for 10 fucking years.

[319] And I was in the growlings and I'm watching all these people work and all these people make money.

[320] It's just slowly killing me. And I'm like, the options or it feels like the options at that time are either acknowledge I'm worse than them or acknowledge there's something in just.

[321] And once you've decided it's in just, I resent people.

[322] Sure.

[323] I've found it, and this is talk about the worst parts of myself and my character defects.

[324] I found it difficult.

[325] And you know what's weird is I think Kristen was always somehow an outlier.

[326] I'm not just saying that because she's my best friend and you're her daughter and you're her step.

[327] Step, daughter, P, baby, and you're her husband.

[328] But like, it just never was that way with her.

[329] You know, actually, interestingly, I never saw talk about insecurities and self -esteem.

[330] I don't know that I ever really believed that level of grandiosity for myself.

[331] So when she had it, I was like, oh, cool, like my movie star, Mughal best friend.

[332] And then it was really my friends who got the episode of Castle I tried out for.

[333] It was that that was hard to be because that was within my reach that I went in on and 99 .78 times out of 100, it wasn't me. And then I also think you and I share that, like, you're either into this or you're not.

[334] Well, I'll speak for me. I'm not very good if you plug me into just anything.

[335] I can do a couple things pretty uniquely.

[336] I think that's what I'm riding on.

[337] And so the smaller end of the game, the beginning steps of the game are of really flexibility and being able to get plugged into things.

[338] And I just was not good at that.

[339] And you know what else was wild and you're both going to cackle at me?

[340] Didn't know I was specific.

[341] Not kidding.

[342] But I also think this is all compounded by the fact that you were out here when you were nine and you had deals.

[343] You had stuff.

[344] I was in New York when I was nine.

[345] Oh, but then you were out here.

[346] Well, shit, I could have fact checked you later.

[347] I blew it.

[348] What if it was the first time ever there was two fact checks?

[349] So we had our fact check and then psych and then you and I had a fact check.

[350] I would love that.

[351] And then we fact checked.

[352] And there's the mirror in the mirror and the mirror?

[353] But when you moved out to L .A., you were how old?

[354] 17.

[355] 17.

[356] And you were working a lot, right?

[357] Well, I started acting when I was nine, and I did random things, whatever I could get.

[358] The only real job I got, I was on the nanny a couple times and played two different characters.

[359] Frandrescher and Frandrescher.

[360] No. Yes, Manny.

[361] Wait, really?

[362] Oh, my God.

[363] Minnie Frandresher and young Frandresher.

[364] I can't imagine anyone in the world being better at playing.

[365] young Fran Dresher than you.

[366] Minnie and y 'all.

[367] Oh, my God.

[368] And my character once was Francine and then I think the other time, Tiffany, but I was Fran's cousin.

[369] Oh, it's Tiffany.

[370] My second cousin twice removed.

[371] Oh, my God.

[372] I told you my Fran Dresher's story.

[373] No, give it to me right now.

[374] Oh, my God, ding, ding, ding.

[375] Another weird overlap.

[376] So I went to some party that I shouldn't have gotten into.

[377] It was like some after party for some movie or some shit.

[378] And then I ended up on the dance floor with Fran Drescher.

[379] And I'm, I was much younger than her at the time.

[380] I'm like 27 then.

[381] She already had her big show and everything.

[382] I'm dancing with her all night lying.

[383] I'm going to go on on a limb and say she really dug me. And she said, she was a smoke show.

[384] I was into it.

[385] And she gave me her number and she got mine.

[386] And she said, I want to call you in for stuff.

[387] And I was like, oh, this is reverse happening, like where a kind of powerful man meets a young girl.

[388] Hot girl, and then, and again, I'm not saying she had any civius plans, but I went and audition for her show based on that, having dance with her, and I never got called back because I probably wasn't pretty good at it.

[389] Oh, man. Did you audition for large Fran Drescher?

[390] Yeah, audition for mini friend.

[391] Wait, you want one more time, I'll do you.

[392] Oh, Mr. Sheffield.

[393] Mr. Sheffield.

[394] That almost sounded like Jerry Lee Lewis.

[395] Because you really have to The crazy thing about Fran Monica's face She just saw something she can't erase If you plug your nose While doing Fran You can't do it Because the sound's completely Coming at you Oh wow The sound is coming out of your nasal Oh my God There was so much pressure Going into the audition Because I'm like She's kind of like I got a suck I got a suck to not get this And I didn't get it Well I think a lot of the time too When I speak for myself Another overlap When I had nothing going on It was almost impossible to get a job because every opportunity meant so much to me. They could see that little seed of needy in your eye.

[396] You walk in the door and they're just like, oh, she wants this way too bad.

[397] You're like, hey, did you guys park outside?

[398] You're doing bits.

[399] Yeah, what is it?

[400] Oh, that's all the meter made.

[401] It's boat you're popped to corner.

[402] You're not even doing jokes.

[403] You're just being loud and fast.

[404] Okay, so in case Fran Dresher, I was so interested in her.

[405] Oh, she was my hero.

[406] my entire life.

[407] Yeah, there was nothing negative about that whole story.

[408] I loved her.

[409] She was my hero.

[410] And then obviously, I was legitimately a mini friend.

[411] And then I got on that show and I was like, this is the cool shit ever.

[412] But to your question, Monica, I started when I was a kid and I got whatever little things I could, which were very, very few and far between.

[413] And for a large part of my childhood, elementary, middle, and high school, my mom was taking me to New York City to go on auditions.

[414] And when I...

[415] graduated from high school.

[416] I went to the University of Delaware for a single semester, and I was planning on going back because I, at that point, you have to keep in mind, had been acting a decade.

[417] Yeah.

[418] And I was like, all right, it didn't quite pan out.

[419] Maybe I'll go to college, be like a normal kid for a little bit.

[420] I went.

[421] And then Delaware has this, speak, I keep saying mini, had this mini -mester.

[422] So they stopped December 15th, didn't go back until February 15th.

[423] So kids could get all these extra credits.

[424] On that break, I went with my mom.

[425] Mom and my agent, Aggie Gold of Fresh Faces Agency of Baldwin, Long Island.

[426] Hold on.

[427] Aggie Gold of Fresh Faces Agency from Baldwin, Long Island.

[428] Of Fresh Faces Agency.

[429] And that's the fucking agent of agents, this woman.

[430] She would just cold call Andrew Lloyd Weber and be like, you'll never hear from me again if you don't like this girl.

[431] Ideal only in fresh faces.

[432] She's like a shell from friends.

[433] What's funny is she only, she started her career because she always only repping redheads.

[434] because she, like, gave herself a niche.

[435] So anyone that needed redheads went to her.

[436] I love it.

[437] Then she did only kids.

[438] Then only red -headed kids.

[439] Then only red -headed kids.

[440] Then only one red -headed kid.

[441] She put Tatiana Ali on Fresh Prince.

[442] She had Joanna Garcia back in the day.

[443] And she was, like, this tiny agent out of her, like, back house in Long Island.

[444] And she was a killer.

[445] Oh, sure.

[446] So then I moved out here when I was 18.

[447] And I think it was a fairly big error.

[448] When I moved to L .A., never told her this, but here we go.

[449] People were like, you have a little tiny agent who works out of her house in Long Island, like, get one of these big L .A. agents.

[450] And I did.

[451] And I was better off with the woman who looked up who created Roseanne and was like, those are Jackie's sensibilities and called them until they answered the phone and would meet me. Yeah.

[452] Like some 1950 shit.

[453] Like, just calling MGM.

[454] I'm calling all the people.

[455] And just, like, kept, did that until they met me. And it happened.

[456] I would bring a boombox and sing to karaoke tracks in, like, the lobby of a hotel.

[457] She'd be like, I've got this big producer coming to meet you.

[458] And then we would go, I would go sing to rent to karaoke tracks in the lobby of a hotel.

[459] Oh, my God.

[460] To the double tree, which we lied and said I was staying in.

[461] Oh.

[462] We were staying at a hostel by the airport called La the Adventurer Hotel.

[463] It was the adventurer hostel.

[464] And when she called people and they asked where we were staying, she would say La Adventura.

[465] Oh, my God.

[466] I want to read a biography.

[467] about her.

[468] Is she with us still?

[469] She's with us.

[470] She's incredible.

[471] I'm starting to write something about this wild -ass story, and she's a big player.

[472] Oh, my God.

[473] I would have come here, and I have low self -esteem, and I'm concerned.

[474] Everyone thinks I'm a piece of shit, and nobody.

[475] Oh, my God, I have this embarrassing agent.

[476] I've got to be with one of these ones that says, I'm great.

[477] I would have done the same thing.

[478] I went and met a manager at one point when I first got here, and I wasn't even embarrassed by her.

[479] I just sort of was like, small potatoes, let me get someone bigger.

[480] And now to this day, if I ever get another manager, the number one thing I will want is that they be small potatoes.

[481] And that I be their client, that they are just like figuring out the puzzle pieces of what is the next step for this person, as opposed to just like a giant company where even where I'm at now, you just get kind of lost.

[482] You know, I had a period of like four years or something where I had three movies fail and I was getting really.

[483] scared and I thought I was never going to work again and I was so on my agents and I was so resentful at my agents and about I don't know two three years ago I called my old agent and I said hey I just want to apologize to you I was really scared and I didn't think I was ever going to work again and I was assuming you guys had way more power than you do and I was putting it all on you and I'm sorry and I recognize you can't make me work you can't it doesn't work that way.

[484] But in my frustration and fear, I started thinking, I bet they send in Will Arnett to that thing.

[485] I bet they're sending so -and -so there.

[486] I bet, you know.

[487] You wanted someone to point the finger to.

[488] Yeah.

[489] Because again, it's either like, it feels like the options on the table are I suck or there's some thing afoot.

[490] Something's broken.

[491] Yeah, yeah.

[492] There's a fail happening somewhere.

[493] So I either need to admit it's me. And then if it's me, I got to quit.

[494] I got to retire.

[495] Because if it's me, then we got bigger problems.

[496] And you know what I think is the really, really scary truth of deciding to be in this business.

[497] It's none of those fucking things.

[498] It's like, I don't know that anyone was really doing anything wrong.

[499] Right.

[500] I remember you asking me, and I think about it all the time, because I don't know how it didn't occur to me, but when we did the Christmas special many years ago, you were like, you know, I've often wondered when we were friends for all those years and it, like, wasn't happening for you.

[501] Like, why you were still doing it?

[502] And that, you know, there's something that we also relate on, there's like a little part of you that's like a little sick that you will get back up every single.

[503] You're told no, not 999 times out of a thousand, 1 ,000 times out of a thousand.

[504] For years.

[505] And you, for 20 -something years.

[506] And then you get up the next day and you're like, maybe this one will be it?

[507] It's delusional.

[508] We all have it, obviously.

[509] That journey is not for everyone.

[510] Oh, no, no, no. Not for the healthy people.

[511] Right.

[512] That's what I'm saying.

[513] Like, you have to be a little sick.

[514] And I think my interest in that question specifically for you isn't so much like not why you keep doing it.

[515] Because, you know, I think you're crazy talented and I always have.

[516] And I've been very vocal about that.

[517] But the toll it took on me, I mean, I would have been an addict no matter what.

[518] But most certainly, I needed so much relief from that experience.

[519] I needed to go check out a lot.

[520] It was just so hard.

[521] Just feeling like a failure for a decade.

[522] What sucks, too, is like, I want to tell actors coming up.

[523] Don't do it.

[524] Yeah, for real.

[525] But don't feel that way.

[526] You're not a failure.

[527] But when I was not working, it's like, well, objectively, yeah, you are.

[528] Everyone around you is killing it and you're not and you're seemingly doing the same things.

[529] A lot of the time, you're working way harder, writing way more, doing more stand -up, showing up for your, like, trying any possible way you can.

[530] It's just not you sometimes.

[531] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[532] You sang and performed, you did college tours, you got into stand -up, you took stand -up workshop, like you kept pursuing every single conceivable route.

[533] That is the difference between someone that's experiencing what you did and I did that doesn't get over the hurdle.

[534] It's because that is part of it.

[535] I couldn't agree more.

[536] What ended up happening when I did start really doing all the things you said?

[537] Because in my 20s, I didn't really.

[538] I told some jokes occasionally, but I wasn't like a club comic where I was like touring and trying to really do stand -up and musical comedy and get out.

[539] In my 20s, I wasn't writing.

[540] I wasn't really making my own stuff.

[541] I wasn't.

[542] Hustling.

[543] I wasn't.

[544] And so then in my early 30s is when I really was like, I need to be doing more stand -up.

[545] And it was that, it was all these other avenues that made me talk about self -esteem feel so much better about myself because I was getting validation.

[546] Well, you're reminded why you want to do this.

[547] Because you forget, it's all about the result of getting hired at some point.

[548] Yep.

[549] And that's all you're thinking about.

[550] and you literally forget, like, oh, I like entertaining people.

[551] This feels so good.

[552] It made these auditions not the only thing in my life.

[553] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[554] But then I would go on them and be like, I don't get this.

[555] There's nothing.

[556] Like, I just was like a crazed person.

[557] And I got to a point with auditions where my, and I'd been acting, as I said, since I was a kid.

[558] In my 30s, my hands started shaking on auditions.

[559] And I started getting really, because I guess I reached a critical mass of not being able to take it.

[560] And my nervous system was like, yeah, you, we're out.

[561] And then I was like, I would have to keep, like, press my feet into the ground or...

[562] It's such a beating.

[563] And I'd only been acting 21 years at that point, so you'd understand the...

[564] Were you hip to propanol yet?

[565] I'm now, baby.

[566] You are now, okay.

[567] Because of KB.

[568] Right, because, yes.

[569] And I imagine that would have been super helpful.

[570] Kristen told me about beta blockers, and that helped massively.

[571] combo that with doing stand -up and getting out there, starting to tour, and then starting to earn some money.

[572] When I went on an audition and I met producers You weren't my god anymore Because like, okay, it is what it is I have a show with the improv tonight I'm opening for Garland next week Blah blah blah dropping it You know like I'm feeling a little bit Like my shit doesn't stink And I'm on the comedy I'm doing shows and feeling good So it's like but you bring that energy into a room People are like Oh who's that bitch It's a mind fuck It's kind of the opposite of the secret It's like I don't know From what I understand about the secret It's like you What is it?

[573] You believe you're going to get out?

[574] Yeah, you manifest.

[575] This is almost the opposite.

[576] It's like, you convince yourself you don't want anything.

[577] And it comes pouring.

[578] No, no, no, no, that's not it.

[579] You can't convince yourself.

[580] That's the, you really have to be there, which is why the stand -up and the things, you weren't just like trying to tell yourself, I don't care.

[581] You really didn't because you really had something to do at five o 'clock.

[582] You can't fake it.

[583] Like, if you go into these meetings, like I would, and I would, I would, like, sit there.

[584] I mean, these kids are.

[585] said.

[586] I would sit outside the thing and I would try.

[587] It makes me kind of want to cry.

[588] I would try and sit there to calm my mind and make my fucking hands and feet stop shaking.

[589] And I would sit out there and all my friends are successful and everybody's killing it.

[590] And I'm on an audition for a 10 -liner for Castle and just sitting out there pressing my hands into my lap just trying to stop shaking.

[591] And here's what's wild.

[592] I didn't feel nervous.

[593] I wasn't like, oh God, those people in there, they could, I just...

[594] Your body keeps a score.

[595] The body kept the score.

[596] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[597] We've all been there.

[598] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[599] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[600] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[601] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[602] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[603] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[604] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[605] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon music.

[606] What's up, guys?

[607] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[608] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[609] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[610] And I don't mean just friends.

[611] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[612] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[613] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[614] Okay, so Essentialism.

[615] Have you read that?

[616] Okay, so it's what you were just talking about, the agent.

[617] In the book, he says that having boundaries actually makes people drawn to you.

[618] What it tells them is this person values themselves.

[619] They know their value and having, like, boundaries.

[620] I'm not going to work on the weekends.

[621] I'm not going to do this and that.

[622] It's like all counterintuitive.

[623] I want to work around it because I want to work with this person.

[624] That's been a massive issue in my whole life from my parents to my relationships, to my reps, to everyone, I am a boundary -less person because I want to be liked and I want to be cool.

[625] And I think that's, I mean, I'm sort of realizing that now, obviously I didn't ever have a real light on that until more recently.

[626] But I really, I've never been a boundary person because I was like, no, dude, like, I'm going, like, I'll do whatever and I'm cool.

[627] Well, your sex stories were always the most amusing of all of Kristen's friends.

[628] Thank you so much.

[629] Some of those were wild.

[630] But those boundaries were more, obviously I know you're joking, but those were my choice.

[631] That wasn't like me letting dudes do anything so they'll more emotionally when I see a moment where like I should put my foot down and you need to get the fuck out because this isn't okay and you'd respect me if I did that.

[632] I'll just like revert to childhood and sit quietly and not say anything and then be grumpy or be sad or be passive aggressive.

[633] But don't you think too in that state going through that for a couple decades that it can put an abnormal pressure on relationships because like now they're.

[634] this relationship you're in has to basically fulfill everything that's going on in your life and nurture all these wounds that exist.

[635] Enter my 20s where two things.

[636] One, I wasn't doing other stuff.

[637] I was just saying, okay, I got reps, I hope I get jobs, wish me luck, fingers crossed.

[638] And the other thing was I was so wrapped up in my relationships in my 20s that I focused so hard on the dudes that I would date one for two years, three years, two years, three years.

[639] And I was serial monogamist and I would always have a boyfriend.

[640] I would watch them Skyrocket too.

[641] And I would.

[642] Oh, so rough.

[643] I mean, over and over and over and over again.

[644] I mean, you're like a talent scout.

[645] Yeah, my pussy is.

[646] So, uh, you're pussy should be a manager.

[647] This is Jackie Tone Colleen from Pussy Management.

[648] This is Pussy Tone calling from Pussy Man. But I, yeah, I'm writing that movie, too.

[649] Does that manager only like Redheads?

[650] That manager?

[651] Yes, only likes fire projects.

[652] My magical puss movie, my writing partner, Rachel and I, just finished it, and we're going to...

[653] Pitch?

[654] Yeah, we're going to go out.

[655] Wait, we've blurred into reality.

[656] You've written up...

[657] Oh, we had, like, a fun joke about your pussy being a manager, and then now I'm learning for the first time.

[658] You actually have a project?

[659] I've said that my pussy's...

[660] a talent scout for...

[661] Oh, I don't know this.

[662] This is why we're friends.

[663] Okay.

[664] I definitely never said this to you.

[665] It's sort of been like a thing and a movie idea I've always had in my head and just gone like, you know, there's a story in here.

[666] Completely from my 20s, every dude I dated skyrocketed to fame.

[667] I mean, just crazy.

[668] Yeah, Emmy winners, showrunners, directors.

[669] And when we dated, we were arguing about whose turn it was to buy the almond milk.

[670] Was it that you were seeking out people who...

[671] You could get proximity?

[672] to that.

[673] No, they had nothing going on.

[674] I hate you with my theory on this years ago.

[675] I don't know if you remember it.

[676] I'm sure I do.

[677] Let's hear it.

[678] You said I can't date someone who's not really funny.

[679] Yes.

[680] And I said, are you sure it's not that you can't date someone whose approval of you means something?

[681] Meaning this person's a comedic genius.

[682] So if I can make them laugh, that approval will feel better.

[683] If I make Joe taxi cab driver laugh, big fucking deal.

[684] So it's not unrelated because she was attracted to people who were hyper -talented because their approval felt really good.

[685] And, of course, hyper -talented people do end up working.

[686] Yeah.

[687] So it's like, it's not unrelated.

[688] No, it's not unrelated.

[689] You know, as we've talked about a million times, there's a ton of hyper -talent that nothing ever happens with them.

[690] A, and B, with these particular set of dudes, this stable of gents, harem.

[691] I mean, one was broker than the next.

[692] I mean, one lived on a couch in his friend's studio on Franklin.

[693] Wow.

[694] And then became like a, you know, a multi -multimillionaire.

[695] Wow.

[696] Pop star, like crazy.

[697] Yeah, it's just wild.

[698] Jason Moran's, we'll cut it out.

[699] That's right.

[700] You don't have to get it out.

[701] I mean, it is what it is.

[702] It's just like, it's just wild.

[703] Like, it just was, there was a time of my life.

[704] And I started to, like, sort of write the seeds of the movie.

[705] and then because of the pandemic writing partner and I finished it.

[706] It's called magical plus.

[707] Oh my God.

[708] I love this.

[709] Are you still in touch with any of these people?

[710] Are you a person who does that?

[711] No, her and Ricky are friends.

[712] Oh, just Ricky.

[713] Just Ricky.

[714] Okay.

[715] But most others, no. Yeah, none of the others.

[716] I mean, my ex - Kyle.

[717] My ex - Kyle, who I love, but I haven't spoken to him in, my God, I have no idea.

[718] Years, probably five years.

[719] I think maybe we exchanged a text three years ago, but it's been...

[720] Oh, okay.

[721] You know, we don't talk.

[722] You're so supportive of him that I assumed you guys talked.

[723] Because I've recently discovered what a genius he is.

[724] He's a genius.

[725] Kyle Dunnigan on Instagram, who I think is, he's unbelievably funny.

[726] And I keep telling you about it.

[727] And you're like, oh, I know, I'm so glad you're into him.

[728] You should Instagram.

[729] So you're so supportive and you want him to receive praise that I assumed you guys.

[730] Yeah.

[731] You know, there's no bad blood.

[732] It's just like, you know, you realize at a certain point, like, someone isn't your person.

[733] And like, you move on.

[734] And I still think they're super crazy talented.

[735] And now I think it's easier for me, too.

[736] because we're all doing well -ish, that it's not like me on the sidelines like it used to be being like, if I could get a morsel of any of the things that you have going on, you know, sort of vibes.

[737] And Ricky knows this, but like I remember him when he was on.

[738] Rick Glassman.

[739] Rick Glassman.

[740] Who also is incredible.

[741] You are a wonderful talent scout.

[742] Thank you so much.

[743] You've got an eye.

[744] So does Bree.

[745] You know, Bree's husband just got promoted to he's the head of Marvel television now.

[746] And she met him and he was doing behind the scenes video.

[747] On videography on Iron Man. That's awesome.

[748] Brad is now the president of Marvel fucking television, which I'm so happy for both of them.

[749] That is incredible.

[750] She got in on the ground floor.

[751] I mean, I was a fucking loser drug addict making $8 ,000 a year.

[752] And then Brad was doing videography, and good for her.

[753] She picks him.

[754] When Ricky would, like, come home from undatable and have a totally reasonable gripe about the job, I would want to make a Jackie -shaped hole in the wall and fucking escape through concrete any way I could.

[755] And by the way, same thing would happen when I was on Glow.

[756] I would come home and their job.

[757] From my leotard, I was like literally the zipper was digging into my back all day and I was wrestling and it was hurting and I was like, it hurts, I can't touch my back, I can't sit back, just whatever the natural gripe was.

[758] But if you're talking to your partner who doesn't have a job and can't get a job, and like he would come home and be like, oh, I don't know about this dialogue or whatever.

[759] I couldn't sympathize.

[760] I couldn't be a partner to him.

[761] Yeah.

[762] Like I couldn't sit there.

[763] and rub his back because I was like, I would fucking kill.

[764] I would kill for what you're complaining about right now.

[765] Yeah, yeah.

[766] And again, just to make sure, like, I'm not putting him in a bad light, these weren't.

[767] No, he wasn't a prima donna.

[768] No, he was coming home and, like, bitching about regular work stuff.

[769] And I couldn't even hear it.

[770] When people wonder why Bree and I broke up if it was because of having an open relationship.

[771] And I'm like, no, no, that really wasn't it.

[772] There were many things.

[773] But one of the bigger ones it was, all of a sudden, I started making all this money.

[774] And we bought thermostatic vows.

[775] at whatever the high -end Home Depot used to be.

[776] As one does.

[777] Lowe's?

[778] It was above Lowe's even.

[779] I don't know.

[780] It doesn't matter.

[781] The thermostatic valves are the fucking valves that are behind the knob you turn in the shower.

[782] And I had bought $6 ,500 with them to remodel the house.

[783] And I was very upset to spend $6 ,500 on something you don't even see.

[784] And I was complaining about it for a good 25 minutes.

[785] And we were in the car.

[786] And she finally goes, you fucking are going to make a million dollars this year.

[787] where you fucking shut up about the $6 ,500.

[788] Now I'm like, yeah, from her point of view, fucking get over it.

[789] Yeah, why do I have to shoulder your issue with the $6 ,500?

[790] And, you know, I went from making $8 grand to making a million dollars and she's still making whatever.

[791] And yeah, it must have been maddening.

[792] We're both right.

[793] I was just going to say that because I was saying it was starting to sound like you were discounting your experience, which also is totally valid.

[794] That's fucking annoying.

[795] And I've been broke my whole life, so it seems crazy.

[796] I'm the same.

[797] I still save and I still don't spend.

[798] We talk about this because I don't have that issue.

[799] And I try to tell Jackie to just get what she wants.

[800] I know I'll text Monica and be like, can I?

[801] She's like, because I was, well, I once saw her in these really gorgeous shoes.

[802] These just like, and they were just a booty.

[803] Like, they weren't excessive.

[804] And I was like, what are we doing with those booties?

[805] And she was like, they're Stella McCartney.

[806] And I wanted them.

[807] And I bought them for myself.

[808] And I was like, teach me the fucking ways.

[809] Okay, so someone who knows both of you, I just, as an objective outsider.

[810] I do think somewhere in the middle of you, too, is probably the guy, like, because we have had Monica and I have had a, I'm sorry, so sorry, how much was the price of that lamp?

[811] I know, but am I ever, ever, ever in a position where I'm like, oh, fuck, I have no money.

[812] I spent the money on that lamp and I shouldn't have, no, I'm incredibly realistic about my life.

[813] And about what things cost for me and how much I have to buy lamps and shoes.

[814] I think you're doing great.

[815] I have no children.

[816] The big thing is your parents were hustlers.

[817] My mom was a hustler.

[818] Money was on the gym teachers.

[819] Right.

[820] So money was on our mind all 18 years.

[821] And Monica's parents were a little more comfortable, engineer and a computer programmer.

[822] I think I grew up around a lot more fear of financial insecurity.

[823] My parents are immigrant parents who did not.

[824] go a day without telling me, you make sure that you pick something safe and that you have enough money.

[825] It was not, not an issue.

[826] Right.

[827] My mom is an immigrant as well and the child of Holocaust survivors.

[828] And so our house growing up, you couldn't throw out a chicken.

[829] You could throw out a chicken.

[830] There'd be nothing left on the chimney.

[831] Don't throw that out.

[832] I'm using the bones.

[833] We're using the fucking bones for mom.

[834] And she would sometimes eat the marrow.

[835] I'm making stock.

[836] You know, I'm making stock.

[837] No one's making, you're not a chef, the Jewish guy Fietti.

[838] Like, don't throw that at.

[839] Everything was like there was looking through the garbage that happened to make sure you didn't.

[840] If you threw out cereal, there was always.

[841] But then on the flip side of that, we had everything we wanted.

[842] There wasn't one sugar cereal in the house.

[843] There were six.

[844] Like, there was an abundance.

[845] It wasn't like we sat there and had nothing.

[846] My parents always took super care of us.

[847] They both did, you know, we were like fully middle class in Long Island and like we weren't, we wanted for nothing, but it was more what was infused.

[848] The fear.

[849] It's a palpable fear that you can get passed on to.

[850] Well, we would have the family meeting, I don't know, every other month where I'm out of them ago.

[851] We don't have enough this month.

[852] So we're going to go to the grocery store and we're going to get meat and we're going to get bread and we're not going to pick out a cereal and we're not going to get blank.

[853] And that was once every couple months.

[854] We definitely didn't have that.

[855] We didn't have that either.

[856] But they were almost trying to convince me that we did, that we were in a situation when I knew we were not.

[857] Yeah.

[858] It backfired on them big time because they were trying to instill fear.

[859] But I could see that we were in no problem.

[860] Like there were.

[861] We weren't in the danger zone.

[862] No. And I'm like, this is a waste.

[863] This is a waste of energy.

[864] Yeah, you rejected like, I'm not going to be afraid of this.

[865] And it's funny you said that about the opposite because, like, because my mom was an immigrant and her family went through such just insanity and turmoil, there was a big piece of her that, like, a lot of immigrant parents that were like, my kid will have everything.

[866] Sure, sure, sure, sure.

[867] My kids will have, my parents were in what are called stettles, which are like hovels in outdoor ghettos.

[868] They were living and running for their lives and hearing those stories her whole life and growing up in a little tiny apartment in Brooklyn with her entire five -person family when they were finally able to get sponsored to even get into the United States because for all the history we all know about we weren't trying to let Jews into the United States even into the 40s.

[869] And so especially after World War II.

[870] Yeah, people discount how ubiquitous anti -Semitism was prior to World War II.

[871] 100%.

[872] Yeah.

[873] And then post that Holocaust, we were like, oh, we're going to not do that anymore.

[874] Yeah, well, that looked bad.

[875] But so I think my mom, a big part of her identity was like my kids are going to have what, you know, a lot of immigrant parents feel like, a lot of parents, period.

[876] Yeah, yeah.

[877] But especially like, you've seen how many motorized vehicles Lincoln has?

[878] You don't want one of them.

[879] She got more motorized vehicles.

[880] And you were like, believe me, she loves cars.

[881] Believe me. But so my mom, you know, she gave up a lot of her working life to take me on auditions and to make it so my dreams can come true and make it so I could because when you're a kid actor it's 20 % about you as the kid who's taking you exactly yeah who's running your lines with you who's all of it and then I also have to give credit where it's due that all that said she wasn't a stage mother I was the one begging to do it she wasn't like put on your fancy dress you've shown us this video of you at your bat mitzvah in a suit you were you wearing a tuxedo and you're just bossing everyone around.

[882] You're telling people to sit down and you shut up and you make a speech and then you sing, right?

[883] Wiping off the kisses of Holocaust survivors.

[884] Your lips are very wet grandma, wiping off you were baby boss.

[885] You were baby boss.

[886] Monster.

[887] Yeah, and you acknowledge that and you own it and you move past it and that's exactly why I love you.

[888] If nothing else, we have to see ourselves.

[889] Yeah.

[890] Because I think that is what separates the assholes from the non, right?

[891] Yeah, we're all assholes.

[892] Yeah, self -awareness to go like, that was, like, it's funny because I actually didn't see my Bat Mitzvah video again and probably until my 20s.

[893] I was mortified.

[894] I didn't know what to do.

[895] I told my mom, like, make sure no one ever sees that.

[896] Like, I was genuinely terrified.

[897] And then I wrote a comedy show about it.

[898] And then I was like, wait a minute.

[899] I'm sorry, am I sitting on solid gold?

[900] And I'm just like, sit down.

[901] Wait a minute.

[902] Stop.

[903] You're spitting.

[904] Wiping.

[905] Just like, now.

[906] I grab the mic from the DJ so loud It makes a noise It goes It's like a scene from a movie Oh, I love it It would be normally like a billionaire's spoiled kid Yes, it's so great I know who enabled that behavior my whole life That's the price of being super cute and funny and talented You can get away with goddamn murder Delta Yeah Delta could pull that And we'd all be like look at this little fucking military general She was at her birthday the other day Like, it was cake time.

[907] He's like, Eric, everyone, like, it's time for my cake.

[908] She's really a good friend.

[909] Okay, so let's talk.

[910] Well, first of all, everyone, thank you for your patience, the cup full of urine.

[911] So it was the middle of a weekday.

[912] I had gotten inexplicably tired, I think because I'm working out so much.

[913] And I was on the lazy boy in the middle of the afternoon.

[914] Monica stopped by to grab something.

[915] To drop off a present from Danny Ricardo.

[916] Oh, that.

[917] That's right.

[918] Oh, man. That could be another tangent.

[919] But she said, are you okay?

[920] And the, are you okay?

[921] Was very reminiscent of when I was taking opiates and she would ask that.

[922] So I was like, yeah, I'm just tired, blah, blah, blah.

[923] Then later that night I said, hey, I think I detected that you probably were worried.

[924] I was high and I'm not.

[925] And, you know, I'd be happy to take a drug test.

[926] And she said, no, you don't have to take a drug test.

[927] And then I went to Rite Aid and I got the most expensive drug test.

[928] They test for four different things.

[929] and peed in it and sloshed it around.

[930] He wasn't on drugs, but he does have chlamydia.

[931] Well, of course.

[932] Sure, come on.

[933] That's the least of my concerns down there.

[934] The funny part was, so two lines is negative.

[935] So for the cocaine, negative, the opiates, which is our main concern, negative, and marijuana negative.

[936] But for methamphetamine, not positive, but basically, it says right on there, even a faint line counts, but it was really faint.

[937] And I was like, this is really weird.

[938] A. Also would not describe why I'm sleeping in the middle of the day.

[939] Well, certainly that was not the outcome of doing meth.

[940] But I was like, that's weird that that line was faint.

[941] It still counts, but why is it faint?

[942] And then I was swirling around for like 15 minutes.

[943] Like, what could I be done?

[944] And all of a sudden I was like, oh my God, I've been taking Zyrtec D for four days with pseudo.

[945] I first guess it's going to be Advil cold and sinus or Sudafed.

[946] Yeah, it was Zyrtec D. So I think that little bit of Sudafed is what made it a faint line.

[947] Well, it is meth.

[948] It is indeed.

[949] It is indeed.

[950] Anyway, so thanks for bearing with us if it was driving you crazy about the drug test.

[951] Okay.

[952] Now, you have a new show.

[953] I have a new show.

[954] What is the new show?

[955] And what is it on?

[956] Is it on Netflix?

[957] Yes.

[958] Okay.

[959] Okay.

[960] It's called, I'm so excited.

[961] And I'm extra excited because this past weekend, I watched them all.

[962] Okay.

[963] And I'm really excited now.

[964] That is wonderful.

[965] Yeah, and you know me. That's terrifying.

[966] Terrifying.

[967] So the show is called Best Leftovers Ever.

[968] And it is a cooking competition series that's going to be coming out.

[969] Well, this is coming out January 4th.

[970] Of 2020.

[971] Okay.

[972] Stop it, God forbid.

[973] 2029.

[974] Anyway, thanks guys so much for having me. All episodes streaming on Netflix as of December 30th, 2020.

[975] And I would describe it as like Peewee's Playhouse Meets Nailed It, meats chopped.

[976] Like, it's whack -a -do.

[977] Okay.

[978] So the contestants enter through a massive Chinese food takeout container with enormous chopsticks next to it.

[979] And me and my fellow judges, I'm the host and I judge.

[980] And then we have restaurateur and culinary influencer David Soe to my right and cookbook author and world -renowned chef Rosemary Schroger to my left.

[981] And they are ridiculous.

[982] How did that decision get made?

[983] So it's magical elves.

[984] They do top chef and Project Runway and sort of like best in class for reality competition shows.

[985] So I met with them in September of 2019.

[986] I just got an email for my agent.

[987] So I was like, hey, the magical elves want to meet you about this cooking show.

[988] Didn't even say it was about leftovers.

[989] They were looking for Netflix talent and obviously glow.

[990] So I was like, cool, let's go do it.

[991] So I go in and I meet a couple of these execs.

[992] And then the third dude that introduces himself to me looks familiar.

[993] We look at each other back and forth a couple times.

[994] He gives me a huge bear hug.

[995] He's like, get in here, Jack.

[996] And it turns out that the guy at the time that runs magical elves, this guy named Toby Gorman, who was a low -level segment producer when I was on American Idol in 2008.

[997] Wow.

[998] 13 years ago.

[999] That's correct.

[1000] Oh, my God.

[1001] Also, Jackie was on American Idol.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] Spoiler alert.

[1004] Big spoiler.

[1005] If you're going through the back catalog of American Idol, Jackie.

[1006] And how far did you get?

[1007] Top 30s.

[1008] Top 36, season eight.

[1009] That's right.

[1010] That's right.

[1011] I wish I had brought this up when we were talking about this just repetitive spin cycle you were in, where you're so talented, yet the people around you are going up to the stratosphere.

[1012] So what a literal example of that of being on American Idol.

[1013] And then like the people you became buddies with that you were drawn to in that experience, then make it to the top.

[1014] Yep.

[1015] I remember Paula Abdul did like Leno.

[1016] and they asked her who her favorite contestants were that season and she was like I can't say but I love that Jackie Tone and I was like I'm about to win this motherfucker yeah and then I started shopping for a boat 100 % literally had to return the yacht I went into Idle the next day and went home and I was like oh it's wild how they do that show but anyway so by going to this room what it turned out had happened you want to talk about wild ass career things 150 million things in my career had to happen exactly as they did for this to happen as it did.

[1017] So a list of Netflix talent, funny women.

[1018] They wanted a woman and Netflix and funny.

[1019] This list passes Toby Gorman's desk and I'm nowhere near the top and he looks through it and he goes, let's see Jackie Tone first and he's telling the story in the meeting.

[1020] I did not know this.

[1021] And he goes, and I brought you in because I remember when we were on Idol, we were like, what do we do with this girl?

[1022] This is a singing competition and she should ever, like it was very kind.

[1023] And he was like, and she should have her own show.

[1024] Like, people need to hear this wise assery coming out of this kid.

[1025] And, like, but we obviously couldn't capitalize on that.

[1026] You're on a singing competition.

[1027] And so he's telling this story.

[1028] And he's like, and I've always just wondered what would happen with her.

[1029] And then she was on Glow.

[1030] And I was like, someone finally gave Jackie Tone a chance.

[1031] And then your name came across my desk.

[1032] And I was like, she is the host of this show.

[1033] I mean, see, that's where, like, again, back to like, your agent can't do that.

[1034] Correct.

[1035] It's like you're a good person on set.

[1036] You're friendly.

[1037] You get along with people.

[1038] You show your real personality, not an audition.

[1039] Someone falls in love with you.

[1040] Later, that person's a president of something.

[1041] It's crazy.

[1042] You can't script it.

[1043] Twelve years later by the time I met him.

[1044] And the premise of the show is what people, there's a bunch of leftovers in a fridge and they've got to prepare something outstanding.

[1045] That's absolutely right.

[1046] So in round one, the three chefs have fridges behind them.

[1047] And in those fridges, they all have the same leftovers.

[1048] So every episode is different.

[1049] So one episode, it's like, last night was date night.

[1050] So you've got chocolate covered strawberries.

[1051] You've got, you know, whatever sexy food is in the fridge.

[1052] And we need you to turn that into flavor bomb brunch, right?

[1053] And so you need to turn it into, or like you need to turn that into a wild dessert.

[1054] So one of the ones that was my favorite is like, so you haven't been feeling well for the last week.

[1055] So the leftovers in your fridge are matzabal soup, rice, a couple pieces of dry toast.

[1056] Oh, wow.

[1057] The brat diet, a couple bananas.

[1058] 100%.

[1059] And, like, that's what's in your fridge.

[1060] And we need you to turn that into a decadent.

[1061] dessert.

[1062] So isn't that awesome when you go down and you actually taste the shit and it's incredible?

[1063] It's incredible.

[1064] There was very, very few times.

[1065] Like I can think of one time.

[1066] I was like, that is not an egg that I'm gonna.

[1067] I even said it on the show.

[1068] They like cut to me and I just go, it looks like a boogie.

[1069] Which was not nice.

[1070] I wish I didn't.

[1071] But also, it was gross.

[1072] You're in a little bit of a tricky situation, are you not?

[1073] Because I watch American Idol and I don't fucking like when you blow smoke up someone's ass and you don't actually help them.

[1074] But also, you don't want to be a dick.

[1075] No, there's a very thin line.

[1076] But I think also the other judges, since one of them is a chef and the other one is sort of a culinary expert, you're off the hulk a little bit.

[1077] I am.

[1078] It is a little ironic that you're the host of a cooking show.

[1079] Because of these many things I know about you, you mean a chef is not.

[1080] That's correct.

[1081] Well, I have a personal chef and I don't know how she finds the time, good old Kristen Bell.

[1082] I mean, I still come over here and I'm just like, what is for lunch?

[1083] And there's the kids are running around and all the stuff is going on and the phone's ringing and there's press and And she's just like, I could do light life sausages in the pan with, like, peppers and onions really quick.

[1084] Do you need me to do rice?

[1085] Are you fine?

[1086] I'm like, no, no, no rice.

[1087] And she's like cooking.

[1088] Yeah, and then you're like, I don't like peppers.

[1089] She's like, just try it.

[1090] And then you love it.

[1091] Oh, everything I hate, she cooks and I love.

[1092] It makes no sense.

[1093] I'm like, no mushrooms.

[1094] She's like, don't worry.

[1095] Just try every time.

[1096] But then round two, my fridge comes out.

[1097] My fridge is sort of like a character on the show.

[1098] She's shy sometimes.

[1099] We need to coax her out.

[1100] Sometimes we need to cheer fridge, fridge.

[1101] You get it.

[1102] My fridge comes out.

[1103] and it's whatever takeout I got the night before.

[1104] So one night it'll be, it's Mexican, French, Italian, Greek, a different genre, ethnicity, every day.

[1105] And you can't take Italian and keep it Italian.

[1106] So you can't take Thai and keep it Thai.

[1107] I mean, some of the transformations, like, oh, one of the foods that I had as my takeout was, like, diner food.

[1108] So one person got a hamburger and fries, one person got chicken tenders and fries, and one person got a fried fish sandwich.

[1109] And the girl with their fried fish sandwich made an incredible curry with Nyoki.

[1110] Uh -oh.

[1111] And she turned the French fries into the Nyoki.

[1112] Oh, wow.

[1113] And then was able to cover up all those flavors by adding in the coconut milk and the curry powder.

[1114] It was wild.

[1115] So the contestants themselves must have some deep cooking background.

[1116] Oh, absolutely.

[1117] They're varying degrees.

[1118] Every episode we tried to cast people on the.

[1119] the same level.

[1120] So it'd either be like three restaurant owners or three home cooks or three, like it wasn't just like people crazy out of their league.

[1121] It's not like nailed it where they're literally just a person.

[1122] No, no, no, no. They all know how to cook.

[1123] Whoever drove you to the studio that day.

[1124] And then we give them the $10 ,000 prize in a casserole dish that's a cash roll.

[1125] Cacherole.

[1126] So tons, tons of dad jokes.

[1127] Like more than I can count.

[1128] Can't wait.

[1129] I cannot wait.

[1130] That sounds so fun.

[1131] I think another thing that really, like, pump me up about it, not to harken back too hard to our mutual best friend.

[1132] But, like, there's so much food waste that goes on.

[1133] And I know that that's something that doesn't really happen too crazy at this house because everything's turned into something else.

[1134] Like, she's constantly like, whatever's in the fridge, throw it in a pan.

[1135] And that's what best leftovers ever is.

[1136] And the last thing is that round two, they have to take whatever they've gotten for the takeout leftovers and turn it into high -end cuisine.

[1137] So we're talking plating.

[1138] We're talking drizzles.

[1139] We're talking, yeah, it's really, really, like 100%.

[1140] Matters.

[1141] Accoutre ma.

[1142] Because sometimes if you're making an Aros -Compuyo, no matter how delicious it is, that's looking like a pile of rice.

[1143] Uh -huh.

[1144] Now, to your point about food waste, the bulk of my holiday break has been because we have the new house that we can't sleep in because we didn't get the occupancy permit.

[1145] We failed that.

[1146] But we're trying to spend time there.

[1147] And then Kristen ordered way too much food.

[1148] So we have all this food at the old house.

[1149] And then we bring it all the way over to the new house.

[1150] And then people come over and then they eat it.

[1151] And then we bring it back to the old house for when we want to eat.

[1152] And then we bring it over to Eric and Molly's house in case they want to eat.

[1153] And then we bring it back.

[1154] And then we bring it back to this all happen.

[1155] I have put the same meal in and out of her car probably 12 times.

[1156] If I have to open this all -time bag one more time, I will.

[1157] It's incredible.

[1158] Last night I was reloading it up.

[1159] And I was like, I think this is my ninth time putting in this fucking box.

[1160] I love that so much.

[1161] There's no waste.

[1162] No waste.

[1163] Oh, my goodness.

[1164] You should have Carly on the show.

[1165] She's kind of the master of there's nothing in the fridge.

[1166] Her specialty is leftovers.

[1167] Yes.

[1168] Taking the scraped off junk out of the squirrel left over.

[1169] And then she turns it into like a cheese crisp.

[1170] You're like, what did you do?

[1171] Yeah.

[1172] Yeah, with a hot sauce somehow.

[1173] I think I am going to come eat at the house after this.

[1174] Infused, infused in the cracker.

[1175] He's going to cook.

[1176] for us over there.

[1177] All right.

[1178] So what's it called again?

[1179] It's called Best Leftovers Ever.

[1180] Best Leftovers ever.

[1181] And by the time you're hearing this, it is on Netflix.

[1182] Best Leftovers ever.

[1183] Please watch all of them immediately.

[1184] Were you shooting it during COVID?

[1185] No, actually.

[1186] We were super lucky.

[1187] So we shot November 2019.

[1188] And these cooking shows, they're so incredible.

[1189] We shot eight episodes in two weeks.

[1190] Yeah.

[1191] Shot four in one week, four in the next week.

[1192] It's the dream.

[1193] It's just massive burst of energy and then we were done.

[1194] Oh yeah.

[1195] It's a journey.

[1196] I'm just going to say at the risk of making people's expectations too high, it is a comedy cooking show.

[1197] Okay.

[1198] I'm in.

[1199] It's a comedy.

[1200] It's a comedy cooking show.

[1201] It's a wacky.

[1202] It's like when I heard about comedy horror movies, I was like, how could that possibly work?

[1203] And then you're like, that works.

[1204] Well, Monty and I were going to binge the shit out of this.

[1205] Guarante.

[1206] So, everyone check it out.

[1207] Jackie Tone, I love you.

[1208] I love you.

[1209] And I'm so glad you were our first in person in the attic in almost a year.

[1210] Wow.

[1211] Shicking off the new year.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] I love you guys.

[1214] Follow me on Instagram at Jackie Tone.

[1215] Do it.

[1216] I like that.

[1217] But spell tone.

[1218] T -H -O.

[1219] No, first you said Jackie Chone.

[1220] Chonys.

[1221] First you said Jackie's Chonies.

[1222] Jackie's ball sack.

[1223] And now you've spelled my name wrong.

[1224] Let me handle this.

[1225] It's not good.

[1226] Let me handle this.

[1227] I'm also not good.

[1228] I'm remedial reading.

[1229] That's another thing we have in common.

[1230] Yeah, yeah.

[1231] And a big chip on our shoulder.

[1232] I'm dumb, yeah.

[1233] So I will prove.

[1234] to you with my volume somehow that I'm smart.

[1235] That didn't work well.

[1236] In the absence of facts, I will give you volume.

[1237] At Jackie Tone, Jack, just kidding.

[1238] I was screaming it.

[1239] T -O -H -N.

[1240] I knew there was a fucking H -N.

[1241] There was 100 % in eight.

[1242] Yes, yes.

[1243] T -O -H -N.

[1244] Okay, great.

[1245] Like John, but with a T. I love you guys.

[1246] Love you guys.

[1247] Let's go eat.

[1248] Bye.

[1249] Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

[1250] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1251] Welcome to the first fact check of 2021.

[1252] Welcome.

[1253] Happy New Year.

[1254] It's so nice to be joined by you.

[1255] I'm excited to jump into this refreshment of a year.

[1256] Before you give us the facts, should we do a recap of last year's resolutions and then maybe...

[1257] Absolutely.

[1258] Okay.

[1259] Do you remember yours?

[1260] I remember mine.

[1261] Shit.

[1262] Was it two years ago that you were going to stop saying you were busy?

[1263] Yeah, that was two years.

[1264] years ago.

[1265] What was mine for this year?

[1266] I remember mine and mine actually worked.

[1267] Okay, tell me. I committed to stop telling people I have a hard time sleeping or that I'm an insomniac and I have slept incredibly this year.

[1268] I don't even get nervous now when I go to sleep.

[1269] I mean, I still use sleep aids, but even last year when I used sleep aids, I still didn't fall asleep.

[1270] Like, I would listen to my book on tape for a half hour.

[1271] But now I can barely get.

[1272] like five minutes into my Genghis Khan Audible right now.

[1273] That's awesome.

[1274] Yeah, I sleep like a little baby now.

[1275] And I remember I started waking up early this year, which is I didn't think was possible for me. Last year was hard to do anything correctly.

[1276] You know, like if you made a resolution to cut down on alcohol, like you probably didn't do that.

[1277] That wasn't the year for it, you know?

[1278] It makes me think of the Mike Tyson quote.

[1279] And he may have taken it from someone else, but he said, everyone has a plan for their fight until they get punched in the face.

[1280] And there's a similar one in the military, which is like, there's a plan until contact with the enemy.

[1281] So I feel like what anyone's plan was once March hit, they were like, wait, what the fuck was my plan?

[1282] I can't remember.

[1283] I just also think it's so bizarre that, I mean, it just feels so simulation -esque that it was the year, the year from essentially beginning to.

[1284] to end with all the craziness.

[1285] And as soon as the year end hit, we are coming out.

[1286] But we had the vaccine.

[1287] Uh -huh.

[1288] Like, it's bizarre.

[1289] It is bizarre.

[1290] Very simulation.

[1291] 2020 simulation.

[1292] I was here for Christmas.

[1293] These are updates, I guess.

[1294] I was here for Christmas and I didn't spend the night on Christmas Eve, but people were wondering.

[1295] You won't do it.

[1296] Well, what happened is I made it.

[1297] Is it fair to say you learned a lesson that you lived with a lesson that you lived with us for a couple months in quarantine and it was just too much and you had to get the hell out of there no that's not it at all actually the opposite I thought it would be good for me to live in my reality okay which is I live in an apartment by myself and that's my reality so and also part of my reality is having best friends who live close by who I get to see all the time and spend the day with but it seemed like maybe the reality of my life is I go to home and I sleep in my house and I wake up by myself and that's okay and I make my macha and then I go over to my friend's house.

[1298] I feel you.

[1299] I can I don't like it, of course, selfishly, but I understand the goal.

[1300] I just think not running away from like the reality of my life.

[1301] Right, right, right.

[1302] Well, that's a good, that's an interesting point because when I lived alone, I certainly got lonely, but I also came to love my little routine that was not impeded by anyone else.

[1303] So it's like, if you got to be lonely, you better reap all the benefits of it, which is like, I'm hungry right now.

[1304] I'm going to eat right now.

[1305] I'm going to eat whatever the fuck I want.

[1306] It's not going to be a conversation and I'm not going to compromise.

[1307] Yes.

[1308] I'm going to go here right now.

[1309] I'm going to stand up and I'll walk out the door and go to the hardware store and no one's going to say a damn thing about it.

[1310] And you can just, it can be messy.

[1311] It can be clean.

[1312] Or like the other night, you spent upwards of five hours on a YouTube rabbit hole.

[1313] Exactly.

[1314] And if you were in a relationship, that person would be like, honey, what are you doing?

[1315] What are you, you've been on YouTube for five hours.

[1316] I actually had this exact thought while I was doing it.

[1317] I was on it for, for real four hours watching cooking videos.

[1318] Yeah.

[1319] And I thought like, oh my God, I'm so happy right now.

[1320] Uh -huh.

[1321] And I would not be able to do this if there was somebody else in this bed.

[1322] So I had gratitude.

[1323] Especially if you had a boyfriend like me that was needy as hell.

[1324] And I would like need your attention.

[1325] At least every couple hours, you'd have to give me like 10 uninterrupted minutes of attention and approval.

[1326] At first I'd be like, oh, it's so cute.

[1327] Are you going to make one of those things?

[1328] Then two hours later, I'd be like, is there one you haven't seen yet?

[1329] And then they would get progressively more passive aggressive.

[1330] And then ultimately, I'd be so resentful at you.

[1331] I'd be like, you're never going to make any of those foods.

[1332] No, I wouldn't be this bad.

[1333] But I'm just playing the potential role.

[1334] Well, see, this makes me feel like I want to be by myself.

[1335] Because I like going on rabbit holes, like once a year.

[1336] Well, maybe you'll take on a lover in 2021 who visits for lovemaking.

[1337] But doesn't get in the way of your rabbit holes.

[1338] Okay.

[1339] I mean, I also don't want to be in rabbit holes a lot because as we learned, it's not good.

[1340] I also did not, that I know of, get Q &N.

[1341] Okay.

[1342] That I might have.

[1343] Now, listen, it's just occurring to me that maybe cooking videos are one of the only things that can't route you to some political point of view because they're so non -political.

[1344] No, I bet it could because like depending on the ones you go to, maybe in some air, like a southern cooking class, but and then there's, yeah, I can like Confederate flag.

[1345] Okay, okay, sure.

[1346] I was watching videos from one woman, Allison Roman.

[1347] She did videos for New York Times cooking.

[1348] And I just stumbled upon one.

[1349] A ziti.

[1350] Ziti, what's that?

[1351] Oh, a baked ziti.

[1352] Baked ziti.

[1353] Oh, a baked ziti, a moustacholi.

[1354] Four pound sausage.

[1355] I'm trying to think what.

[1356] Oh, I know.

[1357] I know.

[1358] I know exactly how it happened.

[1359] Okay, these are the steps you've got to trace.

[1360] So I went on goop to actually go shopping.

[1361] Oh, sure.

[1362] When I pulled it up, there was a cooking thing popped up.

[1363] And so then I thought, oh, I wonder if there's cooking.

[1364] cooking videos on here.

[1365] So then it was a video, a cooking video with Kate Hudson.

[1366] Oh, okay.

[1367] Ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1368] Yeah, ding, ding, ding.

[1369] And Oliver Hudson.

[1370] Oh, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[1371] And they were making some cocktail and holiday snacks.

[1372] Oh, okay.

[1373] And I had already seen this video.

[1374] It was from last year.

[1375] Oh, recycled.

[1376] And I thought, oh, I wonder if there's new videos.

[1377] Because you liked that one.

[1378] I did.

[1379] Okay.

[1380] So then I went scouring.

[1381] on Goop for cooking videos.

[1382] I watched like two.

[1383] But there weren't very many.

[1384] So I thought, I want to watch more.

[1385] And then I went to YouTube.

[1386] Okay.

[1387] And I thought, I'll just type in New York Times cooking.

[1388] Oh, a trusted brand.

[1389] Very trusted brand.

[1390] See, but even that is political.

[1391] You're right.

[1392] Yeah, it's left.

[1393] Wow.

[1394] Yeah.

[1395] I got QAnon.

[1396] Oh, my God.

[1397] You got left Q &N.

[1398] So anyway, this bag Ziti.

[1399] It looked delicious.

[1400] And it looked so good.

[1401] And then there was another one by her.

[1402] So I watched that.

[1403] Four hour.

[1404] And two of them were half hour ones, which I was thrilled by.

[1405] It was cooking for Passover and also big Thanksgiving in a little kitchen.

[1406] Mm. Mm -hmm.

[1407] Well, you know, now that you're telling it, I'm realizing I kind of did do that thing to you, which is I was texting with you for a minute.

[1408] Oh, yeah.

[1409] In the middle of it.

[1410] We were in the middle of an actual exchange.

[1411] And you go, I got to go.

[1412] I got to go back to my.

[1413] YouTube rabbit hole.

[1414] And then as that ended, I was like, could that possibly be what she's doing?

[1415] Oh, no. What did you think?

[1416] Well, I don't know.

[1417] I just was like, what, what is, could be this pressing, these YouTube videos?

[1418] That would be a very bad excuse.

[1419] Although in this case, correct.

[1420] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[1421] That it had to be real because that would be too dumb of an excuse.

[1422] Well, now it would work forever.

[1423] So you bought yourself like a totally plausible.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] Well, I do once a year, like I said, do this.

[1426] And it's funny because Anthony, my old roommate, is very privy to this with me. He knows about this.

[1427] Okay.

[1428] And before I went to Goop Shopping, I was texting with Anthony, like, what are some good books?

[1429] He's really knowledgeable about books of the year.

[1430] Very well read.

[1431] And he said one or two, and we were talking about books.

[1432] And I was like, okay, I'm going to go.

[1433] I'm going to go to Audible.

[1434] I'm going to download.

[1435] I'm going to start doing that.

[1436] And then the next morning I texted him.

[1437] I said, well, I got.

[1438] five minutes in to a little life and then I went down to rabble whole watching cooking videos and he said there's our girl yeah there she is I got scared for a minute yeah that you're gonna read one of these books you bought yeah he didn't like that yeah it would be so off brand if I read a book I bought yeah yeah yeah so you want to know what to do and then you made and then I made a shallot pasta and you and it was what do you give it out of 10 because you said you're gonna do a little um we're gonna do some tweaking only because, okay, I hesitate to tell you this.

[1439] I'm going to make it for the pod, yes.

[1440] I'm scared to tell you this because there's an ingredient in it that I think is going to scare you.

[1441] Ooh.

[1442] Quail eggs.

[1443] No. It's a pretty simple pasta.

[1444] Sardines.

[1445] Close.

[1446] Enchovies.

[1447] Yep.

[1448] Oh, wow.

[1449] I got it in three.

[1450] That was good.

[1451] If it also scares me that.

[1452] Yeah.

[1453] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1454] But you didn't have it in your first go -around?

[1455] I did.

[1456] But I got nervous that it was...

[1457] Does it taste fishy?

[1458] So normally, no. Like, they don't.

[1459] They melt into...

[1460] Like, you know, Caesar salad.

[1461] Caesar dressing has anchovy in it.

[1462] Lots of things do.

[1463] It just enriches the taste.

[1464] With fish.

[1465] No. No. It just gives it, like, a good taste.

[1466] So...

[1467] Like a maritime.

[1468] Stop, stop.

[1469] Hint of maritime.

[1470] So this is my fear, okay?

[1471] This is my fear.

[1472] Okay.

[1473] So this particular shallot pasta It requires an entire tin of antiques.

[1474] Oh, my goodness.

[1475] And a ton of shallot.

[1476] The daily catch.

[1477] Exactly.

[1478] But I love shallots.

[1479] So maybe the shouts will drowned out the daily catch.

[1480] But they melt away.

[1481] The introvis just melt.

[1482] They're gone.

[1483] They're gone.

[1484] They're gone.

[1485] But when I put them in and I was mixing, I was like, it does smell a little fishy.

[1486] Yeah, you put a whole can of fish.

[1487] But it's not supposed to.

[1488] It's not supposed to.

[1489] So it's like, so it's a little fishyy.

[1490] Okay.

[1491] That's fine.

[1492] And then when I ate it, I was like, I can taste it a little.

[1493] And I was fine with it.

[1494] You love your fish.

[1495] I don't mind maritime taste.

[1496] Yeah, you like a nice briny, something real briny, like a barnacle, barnacle toes.

[1497] I'm fine with it.

[1498] But I thought when I make this for the group, he is going to taste this fishiness and he is not going to like it.

[1499] Well, well, you're right.

[1500] I wouldn't like it.

[1501] But odds are I would just swallow that and not tell you.

[1502] I don't want you to just pretend you like it.

[1503] I want to make something you like.

[1504] Well, what if you cut it in half?

[1505] I'm going to.

[1506] That's my plan.

[1507] I'm going to do half the anchovies and I'm going to do extra shallot.

[1508] Oh, wow.

[1509] This is exciting.

[1510] Okay, while we're on this topic, we got sent from Aaron Geiger Smith, who we had on.

[1511] Aaron Geiger Smith, who's so lovely.

[1512] She sent us a present.

[1513] Thank you, Erin, so much.

[1514] Wobbywob, Monica, and I got a box from Emmy Square or Emily, more affectionate.

[1515] known, a burger, which is you, if you know us, you know we like Emily Burger.

[1516] So yesterday, I got after four double -decker burgers for you, just you and I. Yeah.

[1517] A bunch of people over, none of them eat hamburgers.

[1518] And I tore that kitchen up.

[1519] I've never sat in a home and ate something that was that restauranty.

[1520] Exactly.

[1521] So you can, yeah, buy these boxes that are burger, like a burger kit.

[1522] Pro tip, over fucking butter those pretzel roll.

[1523] buns i slathered that shit in butter so the whole sandwich was just fucking greasy as hell and it oh my god i want it again already yeah and we ate we ate two of them yesterday with four patties they are so good they're so she i mean magic i had low expectations coming out of a box yeah this is not an ad for emies we got we are not in the rack with them we wish yeah we'd love to get in the rack with emmy we're grateful so grateful that we for Aaron and for Emily yeah and for your cooking videos okay so we can't remember specifically your New Year's resolution but I can't but I assume it worked I'm gonna assume it didn't work because if I can't remember it I probably didn't put enough effort in oh I know I know one I hate I don't want to bring this up because I didn't do it okay tell me you were gonna eat like veganish several days a week And you did a great job for a little bit.

[1524] I did.

[1525] But once that COVID hit, you said, fuck this.

[1526] If I'm going to die this year, I'm going to eat whatever the hell I want.

[1527] I did it perfectly.

[1528] And I had all those things.

[1529] Remember, it was like, one day I could do vegetarian.

[1530] One day I could do me. I had so many caveats.

[1531] It was a little disruptive to my life.

[1532] But yes, since you and I eat the exact same thing every meal, it was a little disruptive.

[1533] But then we went to Vienna in February, the girl.

[1534] And I said, I'm not going to do that on this trip.

[1535] It would be silly.

[1536] It would be not fair to the girls to have restrictions.

[1537] And then I had my seizure.

[1538] Right.

[1539] Well, you also had two Emily burgers.

[1540] But that was on the trip.

[1541] The trip I was like, I'm going to take this trip off of that.

[1542] Right.

[1543] But I'm going to resume.

[1544] Yeah, yeah.

[1545] But then I had my seizure.

[1546] I came home.

[1547] You moved into our house.

[1548] Moved into your house.

[1549] I couldn't really deal with picking out my food.

[1550] The stress of being with.

[1551] mom and dad during corona had you run for the hills and then COVID immediately yeah yeah yeah you're right I failed yeah I mean you did it for a bit yeah but I failed that's generally how new year's resolutions goes you know what it might have been if I'm being honest yeah it might been a hair too ambitious but if you just said Monday is going to be meatless Monday this oh yeah I know that doesn't sound ambitious enough for you but it might be it might yield a better result at the end of the year I just like shooting for the stars I know you You're ambitious.

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] You're a winner.

[1554] Oh, that's another thing.

[1555] The state champion, Monica, won a spades tournament this break.

[1556] Within the pod, we had a spades tournament.

[1557] Yeah.

[1558] And I did leave victorious.

[1559] That's right.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] It was really fun.

[1562] And I was partnered with the birthday boy.

[1563] Yeah, Matt.

[1564] The best part.

[1565] We had to draw for our partners.

[1566] Uh -huh.

[1567] And then there was money presented for the winner.

[1568] Uh -huh.

[1569] It was announced that there was going to be money for the winner.

[1570] A good deal.

[1571] money.

[1572] Yes.

[1573] And as soon as it was announced that Matt and I were partners, everyone was like, oh, great, okay.

[1574] Sure, they're going to walk with all the money.

[1575] Might as well give them the money now.

[1576] In fact, I think it was when it was announced you guys were partners, I think that's when I said, hey, should we break a grand out of that for number two?

[1577] I was like, we should give somebody else a shot at winning some money.

[1578] Yeah.

[1579] Well, so we were the favorite to win.

[1580] Now, that is not a good place to be.

[1581] If anyone's ever, like me, been a state champ cheerleader, you know, or Michael Jordan.

[1582] If anyone's ever been Michael Jordan or a state champion cheerleader, you know it's better to be an underdog.

[1583] Sure.

[1584] Yeah.

[1585] Less pressure.

[1586] Unfortunately, we were the favorites.

[1587] The favorites.

[1588] And the first game we played, we got murdered.

[1589] And I knew it was going to happen.

[1590] Down by hundreds.

[1591] It was really bad.

[1592] And I knew it.

[1593] I was like, you know, we're set up to fail right now.

[1594] and then we did, but then I turned it around in my head of, well, now we're the underdog, so that's good.

[1595] Now you can climb the mountain.

[1596] And we, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1597] Guys, play space.

[1598] Oh, my God, what a game.

[1599] We are, we are obsessed.

[1600] It's all we fucking do.

[1601] Literally, every single day is planned around when are we playing space.

[1602] It's really fun.

[1603] Thank you, Jess.

[1604] He brought that into our lives.

[1605] Made our lives much better.

[1606] Grateful.

[1607] Okay, facts.

[1608] Okay, but wait, but what is your now resolution?

[1609] Oh, oh, right, because I did the, I'm going to try to work on my codependency this year.

[1610] That's good.

[1611] Yeah, I'm going to try.

[1612] In fact, I might read the Al -Nan book or even go to an Al -On meeting or something.

[1613] Yeah, I need some tools because I allow myself to be way too affected and make myself way too important in other people's disappointment, sadness, whatever it is.

[1614] Yeah.

[1615] I obsess about other people who are not at a tan.

[1616] better in my life that I love.

[1617] Yeah.

[1618] And I got to just let people be how they are and let them work through their stuff, however they choose to, and stop making it about me. Yeah, I mean, this is interesting.

[1619] Let's talk about codependency a little bit because I don't know that people fully understand it.

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] I don't know that we do, but continue.

[1622] Right.

[1623] I loved when we had, by the way, if you want a real master class on codependency, when we had Whitney Cummings on.

[1624] She knows that backward and forward.

[1625] Yes.

[1626] Well, after your relapse.

[1627] Yeah.

[1628] There was another incident, not incident at all, but I got very emotional after that again about your vaping.

[1629] Vaping?

[1630] Oh, right, right, right.

[1631] And I thought, like, this is so unhealthy for me. He gets to make his own decisions, and I can't let my emotions be affected by his decisions.

[1632] I have no control over.

[1633] Right.

[1634] Which is codependency.

[1635] Yeah.

[1636] And I, speaking of buying books and not reading them, I did purchase an Al -Anon book.

[1637] It was hard to know which one.

[1638] There were multiples.

[1639] Anyway, and I started listening to it and I thought it was helpful.

[1640] Did you identify what, like, what they were saying?

[1641] Yeah, a lot of it.

[1642] It's, it's so, complicated because like I think if I'm involved like if me and you are in a business well yeah business or but I'm saying if me and you are in a fight and it's about us or something I can't then be like well he just I my emotions can't be tied to this like he has to deal with himself because I'm involved in that well sadly though I do think the remedy for that is then you would have boundaries you know what I'm saying like if we had some repetitive thing we were fighting in it was upsetting you, I think the solution probably would be some kind of boundary before it gets to that point.

[1643] Right, right.

[1644] Like, you and I have had good, we've had really healthy sit downs, check -ins, I feel this way, I feel this way, great, I can adjust.

[1645] And then we've had bad, really bad ones that are just like, I'm hurt, you're hurt, and it's not productive, and it's just, it's terrible.

[1646] Probably, like if we had the tools, I think maybe we'd be able to identify when it's going down the path that is just not productive and is our own baggage.

[1647] Of course.

[1648] Like I identified this year, I've been recognizing that if you're not happy, particularly with anything regarding the show, I am distraught.

[1649] I can't accept that.

[1650] And I, through going back to therapy after the relapse, recognize that, surprise, surprise, you like Kristen are very much like my mother.

[1651] It's why I like you guys.

[1652] you're very, very smart, you're very, very driven, you're very ambitious, you're very engaged in a lot of things.

[1653] And so all of that familiar connective tissue has me respond to you guys quite often the way I would respond to my mom.

[1654] And it's not fair for either of you because neither of you are my mom.

[1655] I get an unhealthy level of emotion and concern and take things personal, resent you guys.

[1656] You know, as a result, of just unresolved stuff with my mother.

[1657] Yeah.

[1658] I mean, look, it's complicated.

[1659] I've been working on this with my therapist for a long time too, and I do think gotten a little better towards the end of this year.

[1660] But yeah, boundaries.

[1661] for us, for all of us, it's hard.

[1662] All the personal relationships and the professional ones are all in a blender and it's really hard to dissect what is what.

[1663] And so for you, if there's something professional going on you sometimes take it personally in our personal realm right right right and yeah if i'm upset about something professionally yeah and then we go play spades yeah it's very hard to then just like shut that compartmentalize yes make my brain not evaluate that other thing while yes it is and so it's incredibly i think it's more challenging than i i think i understand I assume a lot of people underestimate it.

[1664] Like, if they're really good friends and they get into business together.

[1665] Yeah.

[1666] I have to imagine it's rife with this kind of stuff.

[1667] Of course.

[1668] Of course.

[1669] If we're at your house and we're playing spades, there's no power dynamic.

[1670] It's just we're friends.

[1671] If you say I'm an asshole and I say you're an asshole, it's just all equal.

[1672] And then if we get into something on the show, there's this very dicey implied power imbalance.

[1673] It's too dangerous to touch it.

[1674] No, it's not.

[1675] it's not i think it's important to have these conversations well and i think that was my big mistake this year i i also think boy it's very blurry part of it is i think i think i'm the elected leader yeah you know yeah of the team then i start treating you and rob like as i just apologized to you recently like i went out and hired you which is not the case you you and I came up with an idea together and then you and I made this thing.

[1676] Yeah.

[1677] Yeah.

[1678] And it's yours.

[1679] And it's also mine.

[1680] Yeah.

[1681] Yeah.

[1682] As much as we don't want there to be a power differential, there is only in the way that I can't say to you.

[1683] We're talking about politics.

[1684] I mean, I probably would say that.

[1685] Yeah, yeah.

[1686] I'd say I really want to and we should.

[1687] Yeah.

[1688] But I can't say to you, you're fired or you're getting this amount of money this year.

[1689] Right, right, right.

[1690] So, like, you make those business decisions when it comes to me. Uh -huh.

[1691] We make all the rest of the business decisions together, but you get to make the ones that are about me. Yeah.

[1692] I don't fault you or me for having a hard time navigating this because it's really hard.

[1693] hard and I'm proud of us for still sitting here yeah and figuring it out and saying and like knowing that it's hard and knowing that just because it's not the easiest doesn't mean it's not worth it yes yes yes yes but again that's where the the codependency and the personal stuff got very cloudy for me which is like I interpret any legitimate conversation you want to have is you're unhappy yeah I've somehow let you down uh your my mom.

[1694] I try to be a perfect boy.

[1695] And now you're upset with me. And then I'm just in another space entirely at that point.

[1696] Yeah.

[1697] And again, it's so tricky.

[1698] Like, just for context, I told you at the end of the year that I was burnt out.

[1699] Yes.

[1700] Yes.

[1701] In a personal setting.

[1702] I was just like, oh, man, I am done with the year.

[1703] I'm done.

[1704] I don't want to do anything.

[1705] I'm burnt out.

[1706] And I was saying it very flippantly because I was just telling you my friend, like, Like, oh, I am done for the year.

[1707] Yeah.

[1708] And you heard that in a professional.

[1709] Right.

[1710] Like I have work with someone who got burnt out.

[1711] I got to figure out how to not have them burnt out.

[1712] Right.

[1713] Then you approached me about it.

[1714] Uh -huh.

[1715] And it went side ways.

[1716] And it did not go well.

[1717] What's bad as it could go.

[1718] So it's just as hard.

[1719] It's hard.

[1720] It is.

[1721] But I think it is less.

[1722] That's hard because we're both working on ourselves and priorities.

[1723] We're also in a bizarre year.

[1724] Yeah.

[1725] Again, I think I do think everyone constantly, myself included, keeps underestimating the year in itself.

[1726] Yeah.

[1727] You know, even like when I do my investigation as to why I relapse, I certainly have probably 95 % of those reasons.

[1728] But I also think maybe 5 % of the reason was just quarantine also.

[1729] I mean, it might have been like a tipping point or who knows.

[1730] Right.

[1731] And so you and I didn't have this.

[1732] issue last year the year before is still a great year and everything else we had issues but you know who's to say what percentage of the challenge wasn't also just this bizarre year yeah i'm sure was that it i think last year everything bubbled to the surface across the board yeah yeah yeah yeah i think that's a good thing because it forced people to see the thing that was under the surface and address it yeah i'm glad we addressed it yeah i mean too.

[1733] And that we'll keep addressing it.

[1734] Yeah.

[1735] But that was a great resolution.

[1736] Mine?

[1737] Co -dependency.

[1738] Oh, yeah.

[1739] Yeah.

[1740] What's yours?

[1741] I'm going to do that too.

[1742] You're going to do it?

[1743] I'm going to be codependent.

[1744] I'm going to be codependent about your codependence.

[1745] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1746] What a great.

[1747] Two codependents who are admitting their codependent are going to together fix their codependency.

[1748] With the help of each other.

[1749] Stay tuned for the stunning result of this experiment.

[1750] Okay.

[1751] So.

[1752] We're so happy we had Jackie on.

[1753] Me too.

[1754] We love Jackie.

[1755] Okay.

[1756] Oh my God.

[1757] Ding, ding, ding.

[1758] Boundaries.

[1759] Oh.

[1760] Because you mentioned that essentialism talks about boundaries.

[1761] Uh -huh.

[1762] Mostly professional, but I, yeah.

[1763] But that's what we're talking about.

[1764] Yeah, that's true.

[1765] That's true.

[1766] This is the gist of essentialism and boundaries.

[1767] Non -essentialists tend to think of boundaries as constraints or limits, things that get in the way of their hyper -productive life.

[1768] To a non -essentialist, setting boundaries is evidence of weak.

[1769] If they are strong enough, they think they don't need boundaries.

[1770] They can cope with it all.

[1771] They can do it all.

[1772] But without limits, they eventually become spread so thin that getting anything done.

[1773] They get burnt out in December.

[1774] Essentialists, on the other hand, see boundaries as empowering.

[1775] They recognize that boundaries protect their time from being hijacked and often free them from the burden of having to say no to things that further others' objectives instead of their own.

[1776] They know that clear boundaries allow them to proactively eliminate the demands and encumbrances from others that distract them from the true essentials.

[1777] It's a good book.

[1778] Again, I didn't feel like I needed to read it, although I just said I'm going to work on my codependency.

[1779] I actually think I have boundaries generally.

[1780] Well, they're super easy for me to have with men, if I'm being dead honest.

[1781] They're harder for me to have with women than men.

[1782] Boundaries.

[1783] Are they easier for you to have with women than men?

[1784] Hmm.

[1785] That's a good question.

[1786] I don't think so.

[1787] I think it's the level of connection I have with someone.

[1788] The closer I am, the harder it is to have boundaries.

[1789] Yeah.

[1790] Yeah, that makes sense.

[1791] But I can still have them.

[1792] Yeah, like I know I would be able to say something Aaron Weekly that I would be nervous about to say to you.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] Well, I wish you would.

[1795] I know, but, you know, yeah, we're working on it.

[1796] It's only a second day, third day.

[1797] We can't even talk about the fact that I just got really old either because we're just, we've talked so much.

[1798] You turned 46 and tell us how you're feeling.

[1799] Well, if I don't think about the fact I turned 40, I feel awesome.

[1800] I feel incredible.

[1801] Yeah.

[1802] You look great.

[1803] Thank you.

[1804] I feel bright.

[1805] Yeah.

[1806] I feel physically great.

[1807] Yeah.

[1808] And it's wonderful.

[1809] If I started thinking about that like in four years I'll be 50, it's a little troublesome.

[1810] You don't like that.

[1811] I'm not ready to be 50.

[1812] That's a ways away.

[1813] And the thing is, and I'm smart enough to know this, but I can't emotionally feel it, which is, it's so generic.

[1814] But my only evaluation of anything should be, how do I feel?

[1815] Exactly.

[1816] I feel fantastic.

[1817] If I feel like this one, I'm 50, I don't know why I'm going to be bummed.

[1818] Eric's 50.

[1819] Yeah, he looks awesome.

[1820] And we don't think.

[1821] It's not like, changes.

[1822] I'm not like Eric's old.

[1823] I know.

[1824] When I'm 50, you'll still be in your 30s.

[1825] It's going to be a little bit of a drag.

[1826] You're going to be like, oh, my buddy, he's a half a century old.

[1827] So we probably can't take him to the park because it's a little bit uphill from the where you park.

[1828] No, no, no, we got to eat at 11.

[1829] You cannot plan lunch at two Because he'll be eating dinner at 3 .30.

[1830] Oh, my God, it's already happening.

[1831] I'm going to bed earlier and waking up earlier.

[1832] No, you're just taking care of yourself So that you last one and a half centuries.

[1833] Well, I will say I'm entering this year of life with way more optimism About my longevity than I've ever had based on my colonoscopy and my heart scan.

[1834] So, yeah.

[1835] Yeah, so all things...

[1836] That's our knocking on one.

[1837] I used to think, like, best case scenario, I hit 70.

[1838] But now I'm starting to think that I might hit, I might hit 90.

[1839] Yeah.

[1840] Yeah, that's what I'm thinking.

[1841] Yeah.

[1842] Um, okay.

[1843] What is the high -end Home Depot?

[1844] I still don't know what you were talking about.

[1845] Were you talking about Ace Hardware?

[1846] No, no, no. No, no. Maybe it was called HQ.

[1847] Oh.

[1848] I'm sorry.

[1849] Let me see.

[1850] That's all right.

[1851] I just want to know what it was and I, how could I look it up if I didn't know, you know?

[1852] Exactly.

[1853] It's almost impossible to figure out.

[1854] Home Depot Expo?

[1855] Yep.

[1856] Really?

[1857] That's what it was.

[1858] Oh, my God.

[1859] Yeah, it was fancy.

[1860] So it was, it's still Home Depot.

[1861] But it was called Home Depot Expo.

[1862] Okay.

[1863] Like Armani versus Armani Exchange.

[1864] In this case, Home Depot's Armani Exchange, and then there was Armani.

[1865] Oh, wow.

[1866] All right.

[1867] Well, I'm glad we figured that out.

[1868] Oh, really important fact I have to check is when Jackie is talking about, about the boots that I wore, that she was like, oh, my gosh, like, she has fancy boots on.

[1869] And she said they were Stella McCartney.

[1870] Okay.

[1871] They weren't.

[1872] They weren't.

[1873] They're YSL.

[1874] YSL.

[1875] That's Eve St. That's right.

[1876] Okay.

[1877] Okay.

[1878] And then real quick, because we just touched on it for two seconds, Danny Ricardo sent us Christmas presents.

[1879] Oh.

[1880] And we love him.

[1881] We love him.

[1882] He sent us.

[1883] And Danny.

[1884] Beautiful helmets and hats.

[1885] You're going to date.

[1886] I hate Monica.

[1887] It's just that simple.

[1888] You don't have to, Danny.

[1889] Don't get, like, peer pressure.

[1890] But you're gonna.

[1891] It's not that you have to.

[1892] You're gonna.

[1893] Anyway, Danny, we really appreciate the Christmas gifts.

[1894] There were tiny helmets.

[1895] Really cute.

[1896] And they weren't cheap.

[1897] They're a real helmet made to size.

[1898] Like, if you were a squirrel or something, that thing would work in a high impact situation.

[1899] Yeah, the helmet's really cool because he has a very fancy helmet.

[1900] That's his own design.

[1901] Signature, Danny Ricardo, design.

[1902] Signature.

[1903] It's so cute.

[1904] It's really cute.

[1905] Anyway, we'll see you in Austin.

[1906] We love you, and we love you armcherrys.

[1907] We hope you had a beautiful holiday.

[1908] We do.

[1909] We hope that your New Year's resolutions are achievable, not too ambitious.

[1910] So, meatless Monday, maybe.

[1911] Think about it.

[1912] All right, love you.

[1913] Bye, love you.

[1914] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcast.

[1915] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early, and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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