Laura Linney

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepherd.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman.

[3] We have to do a song.

[4] Happy birthday to you.

[5] Happy birthday to you.

[6] Happy birthday, dear Wobby Wob.

[7] Happy birthday to Wabiwob.

[8] How old are you Wabi Wob?

[9] 34.

[10] Oh, my gosh.

[11] Prip chicken.

[12] We got Monica to sing too.

[13] I know, I did that for you.

[14] I've never done that.

[15] That shows how much she loves you.

[16] It does.

[17] You know who else loves you?

[18] She told me when she left.

[19] She was like, is Wabi Wobb single?

[20] I was like, no, he's married with two kids.

[21] She was like, Laura Lennie, our guest.

[22] She didn't say that.

[23] Yeah.

[24] Our guest is Laura Lennie, who unfortunately didn't say that to me. I'm sure she thought it.

[25] Yeah.

[26] Laura Lennie is an award.

[27] winning actor.

[28] I'm sure you're in love with her right now in Ozark, America's most popular show.

[29] She's also in The Truman Show, Mystic River, the Big Sea, Savage's Kinsey.

[30] If you haven't gotten into Ozarks, we strongly encourage it.

[31] Laura has an incredible arc this season.

[32] So check out Ozark on Netflix.

[33] And guess what?

[34] It's not Ozarks.

[35] I know.

[36] I'm from Michigan and I wanted to be Ozarks.

[37] You want it to be.

[38] That's okay.

[39] That's your thing.

[40] But it's not.

[41] Please enjoy Laura Lennie.

[42] early and ad -free right now.

[43] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[44] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[45] He's an object to.

[46] Now, where in Georgia are you from?

[47] Monica's from Georgia.

[48] Oh, I'm from Detroit, as is Kristen.

[49] Who I, you know.

[50] Oh, I know, I know.

[51] She could not talk higher of you, actually.

[52] She has a very bad memory then.

[53] Well, she does have a bad memory, but she has a very selective memory, I would say.

[54] Do you have that?

[55] It's all changing because I'm getting older.

[56] Sure.

[57] You just go into the black void.

[58] You just, you think you remember something, and then you're like, I don't remember anything about anything.

[59] I mean, people will come up and say, remember when we went on this trap?

[60] No, I don't.

[61] And do you have what I have in those situations, because they're increasing for me as well?

[62] Tremendous guilt immediately, because my first thought is, oh, they now think I didn't think that was important.

[63] That's right.

[64] No, of course.

[65] And then there's the horrible thing when someone goes up and says, remember me?

[66] Yes, yes, yes.

[67] It's extra for you.

[68] It's extra.

[69] It's a little exponential.

[70] Because a lot of people are coming up to you at all times.

[71] I know.

[72] Well, also, I was saying this to someone last week we were interviewing.

[73] It was like, it's really compounded by the fact that there's a very specific look us humans give one another when we're reuniting, right?

[74] When I'm familiar with you.

[75] So there's a look on my face.

[76] Yeah.

[77] No, that could just be someone who actually you're familiar to them.

[78] That's right.

[79] Yeah.

[80] And so you're reading all these cues and they're all jumble jangled.

[81] Yeah.

[82] Skeddy Wampas.

[83] It was the time I was in New York and I was going to the theater, I think, and I was having a very bad day.

[84] There was stuff going down.

[85] Like, it was not good.

[86] And I was in a mood and I was trying to handle stuff.

[87] And I was alone on a platform and I had headphones on.

[88] And a girl came up to me and tapped me on the shoulder.

[89] And I was as nice as I could be, but I just couldn't.

[90] Like, I don't think my face lit up.

[91] Yeah.

[92] Your face betray you.

[93] And I got on the train, and I'm sitting there, and I looked up, and she's crying.

[94] Oh, boy.

[95] And you're already in a terrible mood.

[96] And then she saw me and burst into tears even more.

[97] And then she got up and left.

[98] That is not fair.

[99] But I felt so bad.

[100] And it was like the one time I didn't have the energy.

[101] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[102] Oh, it was awful.

[103] And I'm still haunted by her, clearly.

[104] She lives in my dreams.

[105] This is a ding, ding, because we were just at a wedding, me and Dax.

[106] We got married.

[107] Congratulations.

[108] Thank you.

[109] Thank you.

[110] Finally.

[111] But there were a lot of people at that wedding who are notable.

[112] Famous people are saying.

[113] It's like the village of famous people in a TV show, like when everyone they cast an entire village.

[114] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[115] And one of these people was Justin Timberlake.

[116] Are you familiar with him?

[117] I've heard of him.

[118] You can Google him later, and you'll recognize this face.

[119] But once dancing started, I was like, I feel so bad for him.

[120] You had left by this point.

[121] Yeah, yeah.

[122] his song played.

[123] People were kind of like on and off the dance floor, you know?

[124] It was kind of like sparse.

[125] His song played.

[126] Boom.

[127] Everyone, including myself, including myself, ran to the dance floor to see what's going to happen.

[128] Is he going to dance?

[129] Is he singing to his own song?

[130] Is it a concert now?

[131] What is happening?

[132] Of course, he was incredible.

[133] Gracious.

[134] Yes, he danced a whole night.

[135] They did this really fun mind jump rope thing I hadn't heard of.

[136] I thought was maybe new.

[137] They were having so much fun, I hope.

[138] But, the whole time I was just like, man, if you're Justin Timberlake at a wedding.

[139] No, I have something called the two -drink rule.

[140] Oh, hit us.

[141] After people have had their second drink, I have to leave.

[142] There's a click that happens in the room.

[143] You can feel it.

[144] I'm not a drinker.

[145] Like, I'll have a glass of something literally once a year.

[146] Sure, sure.

[147] I am just naturally sober.

[148] But I can feel it in the room.

[149] And I'm like, oh, it's time to go.

[150] Yeah.

[151] And I just have learned how to do that.

[152] Yeah.

[153] He was so gracious.

[154] It made me, like, really, really adore him.

[155] Yeah.

[156] Just BTS.

[157] Yes, he was asked prior to that.

[158] Respectfully, the people that got married said, hey, do you not want to hear your shit at our wedding?

[159] He didn't mind.

[160] Yep, here we go.

[161] Can you!

[162] Grab a mic, Mama.

[163] Oh, my goodness.

[164] I was so excited when he told me about this this morning.

[165] Hi.

[166] Hi.

[167] I'm so happy to see you.

[168] Same here.

[169] I wanted her to come in.

[170] Hold your mic like a professional for crying out loud.

[171] Your voiceover expert.

[172] There you go.

[173] You're all upside down.

[174] Do I want to assist you?

[175] There we go.

[176] There we go.

[177] She laid out your whole history last night.

[178] Uh -huh.

[179] I said, I think I want Laura to hear your impression of her.

[180] Yeah.

[181] Yeah.

[182] So I said, please come in and tell her.

[183] He told me late last night that this was happening and I got very excited because I said, I don't know if you've ever met Laura, but she was probably the person who had the most profound impact on me personally going into my career.

[184] Because when I met you, I was 20, could not tell my ass from my elbow, was very excited to be there on stage with you guys.

[185] You guys met on the crucible.

[186] Laura was the star of it.

[187] Correct?

[188] No, I was.

[189] You were the female lead.

[190] You weren't Kristen.

[191] I had a larger part than your wife.

[192] Yeah, a few more lines.

[193] A few more lines.

[194] I had a little more to do.

[195] Yeah.

[196] That's true.

[197] And so there was this group of girls.

[198] And I know that oftentimes, without your knowledge, we would talk about how cool it was that we got to hang out with you and watch you work, but also would just have this profound.

[199] reverence for the time that you took with all of us and I'm being dead serious right now like it has left such a major impact on every single one of us but I said to Dax I was like Laura is the reason that I walk into a room the way I walk into a room because she said you know if you guys come out to Los Angeles if you guys ever explore film and television you need to know the cameraman's name you need to know the lighting guy's name you need to know who the grips are because A you might not get lit well if you don't know the lighting guy.

[200] Like you need to have a respect for everyone around you.

[201] Also, it's not just you.

[202] And it can seem like it's just you very easily.

[203] It was just a very big deal.

[204] And I, to this day, remember that piece of advice every single time I walk on a set of like, oh yeah, this is a group effort.

[205] There's a responsibility here.

[206] Yeah.

[207] And despite that great advice, her career stalled out.

[208] But that is not on you.

[209] It went nowhere.

[210] It went absolutely nowhere.

[211] Yeah.

[212] So I was like, what happened to her?

[213] I know I gave her wisdom.

[214] What happened to that girl with a beautiful smile?

[215] I thought I set her up so well.

[216] Wow, this really circles back to our beginning conversation.

[217] So do you have the memories of Kristen?

[218] And it's okay if you don't.

[219] No, I do.

[220] There was a group of the young girls in The Crucible who all get possessed and get to scream and yell and roll around and all of that.

[221] I loved that production.

[222] It was a really good production of a play that is not always done well.

[223] You know, most of the time, people say The Crucible and you're like, oh, God, another production of the Crucible.

[224] And we all had a wonderful time.

[225] It was beautifully designed.

[226] And all of the young girls were wonderful.

[227] I mean, you were all just beautifully cast.

[228] And everybody was young.

[229] And it was kind of the first time that I was in a show where I was not a younger person.

[230] When Kristen was telling me this last night, I go, you have to recognize also Laura was very young when she was the older woman in your life.

[231] Like she was much younger than you are currently.

[232] I loved it.

[233] You were just beautiful.

[234] More than anything, there was like, what is that face?

[235] Look at that like sparkle.

[236] And you were finding your way.

[237] And you had questions and you were curious and you were lovely.

[238] You baked a lot.

[239] You did?

[240] I did.

[241] She did.

[242] She baked a lot.

[243] There was offerings.

[244] And then like, Oh, hi.

[245] Hi.

[246] Jesus Christ, it's all unraveling.

[247] Hello.

[248] Hi, buddy.

[249] Take a seat real quick.

[250] You let me in.

[251] Okay.

[252] Yeah, come on over.

[253] This is not how the show goes normal.

[254] I'm sorry, Laura.

[255] That's the face that was at the crucible.

[256] Honestly, it was that little face that was in a pilgrim outfit.

[257] And then possessed by demons.

[258] Well, I'm just incredibly grateful to have had an experience.

[259] as a young actor, being able to watch what you had created in your world and your process, being able to witness it, left a profound impact, but also the personal time and attention, like, just as a friend that you gave, like, Jen and I, you invited us up to your cabin.

[260] Remember when you moved upstate?

[261] And we went there and we stayed there.

[262] Oh, my God.

[263] And it was so funny.

[264] We walked through all the forests.

[265] And you were so open and giving, and it just left a really profound impact on me. I just wanted to say thank you.

[266] It's been thrilling.

[267] watching what's been going on.

[268] Thanks.

[269] You must have done backflips when you saw she got hooked up with me. Well, actually, I was really happy.

[270] Oh, good, good, good, good.

[271] I was being funny.

[272] But when we first hooked up, this was the kind of consensus in the country.

[273] If you see this thing hanging here, says, would you, date, Dax?

[274] 72 % of the country said, absolutely not.

[275] All right, I really got to focus on, Lorna.

[276] So happy you came by.

[277] Delta had a question for you.

[278] Oh, what's your question?

[279] Will you say it in the money?

[280] Hi, yeah.

[281] Well, you've got to ask a little closer so I can hear.

[282] Because I have had phones on.

[283] I can only hear if it's in the microphone.

[284] Um, where did you put the screwdriver?

[285] Yeah.

[286] It's in my backpack that's sitting on the bench under the windows in the living room.

[287] The bench under the window?

[288] You know, a backpack.

[289] It says JPL on it and stuff.

[290] I love everyone in this room.

[291] Love you.

[292] Thanks for stopping.

[293] So I think it's really wonderful to see that.

[294] And I would say you guys remind me as an outsider of one another.

[295] What a compliment.

[296] But then also I think I have some things in common with you.

[297] I'm hoping.

[298] I'm a big projector.

[299] So I'm off and wrong.

[300] Okay.

[301] I'm a blank page project away.

[302] Also, Laura's whole family is from Georgia.

[303] The whole family.

[304] My mother's side of the family's from Georgia.

[305] My father's side was from North Carolina.

[306] Oh, okay.

[307] I love North Carolina.

[308] It's beautiful.

[309] And your father had the coolest name of all time.

[310] Or is he still alive?

[311] No, he's no longer alive.

[312] Romulus.

[313] Romulus is Zachariah.

[314] If I had a son, I think I'd want to go with Romulus.

[315] It's a hard name to have as a child.

[316] Yes.

[317] But I think he loved it as an adult.

[318] I wonder if that's Romney Malik.

[319] I don't think so.

[320] Okay.

[321] But it is the lead character, in succession is Romulus, and then also Romulus, Michigan is a town.

[322] Oh, yeah, maybe there's some lineage there.

[323] I don't know.

[324] Lineage, get it?

[325] Oh, I got more lineage there.

[326] Okay, so I'm going to own my baggage, too.

[327] So I'm wrong side of the tracks.

[328] I felt very less than a lot in my life.

[329] And then right out of the gates when I've heard you speak, I'm like, God, she speaks perfectly.

[330] And then I go, oh, she went to a prep school.

[331] Oh, she went to Brown.

[332] Oh, she went to Juilliard.

[333] I'm ramping up to be like, this person thinks I'm a piece of shit.

[334] But then I'm like, single mom nurse, okay, this I can relate to.

[335] And then I imagine two, you too must be hyper aware of privilege and wealth because you were surrounded by it but didn't have it.

[336] That's correct.

[337] Did you have those feelings of less than judge?

[338] Absolutely I did.

[339] And also I was the only child of a divorced home.

[340] And I had a mother who worked incredibly hard.

[341] I was at a very privileged school, which my grandmother paid for, my father's mother.

[342] It was not an easy upbringing for a variety of reasons.

[343] And I found myself surrounded by people who had very different lives than I did.

[344] Some of them I liked a lot.

[345] Some of them scared me to pieces.

[346] And then I found myself at institutions that were very well funded and had some very wealthy people there.

[347] But you do sort of become comfortable with who you are.

[348] This is where you and Monica have a lot in common team because she was a brown girl wanting to be white.

[349] You can relate?

[350] No, I'm the whitest person on the planet.

[351] But she's a master assimilator.

[352] Right.

[353] And then I've had less, and so I went the other way.

[354] I was like, I reject your system.

[355] I'm going to be punk rock.

[356] Right.

[357] Fuck all y 'all.

[358] I'm not playing your game.

[359] But you got to pick one of those lanes, I feel like.

[360] Yes.

[361] And then you can be stubborn about it.

[362] When I first got out of drama school, I can remember people would say to me, I had to go into auditions looking a certain way.

[363] And I was like, you know what?

[364] I'm not going to do that.

[365] I'm But I'm not going to try to be something.

[366] Yeah.

[367] And I think I went a little far with it.

[368] I think it was probably a little too much.

[369] Well, you famously auditioned in snowmobile suits quite often.

[370] That's right.

[371] The Michelin Man outfit came out.

[372] I said, cast this.

[373] You know, hey, see past it, friends.

[374] Way to get noticed.

[375] Yeah.

[376] This is a deeper zone.

[377] I don't know if you want to go into with me. Go, bring it.

[378] Okay.

[379] So similarly, mother, three kids, single mom, working midnights as a janitor at General Motors.

[380] My mother worked 12 -hour shifts at Sloan Kettering.

[381] Exactly.

[382] So I was hyper sensitive to how.

[383] overwhelmed she was.

[384] And so I wanted to be perfect.

[385] I wanted to be super self -sufficient.

[386] I never asked her for anything.

[387] It has fucked me up because I actually think that's the quality that people love about me. And I have an impossible time asking for help, showing that I'm struggling.

[388] I just had this conversation with my shrink.

[389] I am difficult to help.

[390] I think when you grow up in chaos or some form of chaos, whether it's an undercurrent of chaos or literally physical chaos, and you are afraid that asking for something is going to throw a balance off and all of a sudden someone will be inconvenienced or upset.

[391] You learn to stay in your lane and you try and be as self -sufficient as you possibly can.

[392] I was a very good girl growing up.

[393] I was a painfully good girl.

[394] And then when I would do something delinquent, like it was so out of character and everyone would freak out so the behave well mode.

[395] You didn't feel like, oh, that's kind of fun.

[396] You were like, no, no, no, no. And I'd always get caught.

[397] I would always get caught.

[398] Like, I don't even try because it's like, I'm just going to get slapped down.

[399] God's going to come and create something to be like, you did something wrong.

[400] We might diverge then here because what that whole thing that I think we have in common created in me as a very dualistic person.

[401] So like I had my perfect thing for my mom and I got good grades.

[402] And then I was kind of a fucking animal when no one was looking like I was into trouble I loved girls too young I became an addict do you have any of that even though you got caught I was not a great student okay I had a very hard time learning how to read so I did not have confidence at school so I was all sort of insecure about that I have never been an addict but I was around addict and they scared me so intensely for such a long period of time that I didn't dare go there I was like my life is too hard for me to handle when I'm sober.

[403] To me, drugs and alcohol would not be a release for me. It would not be a safe place for me. I just knew it would make it much worse.

[404] Much, much, much, much worse.

[405] You were right, by the way.

[406] I did the research for us.

[407] Thank you for that.

[408] Thanks, Max.

[409] It does go that way.

[410] I feel like kids who are around excessive amounts of alcohol and stuff.

[411] Like, I have a friend who just has never touched it won't because he's like, I know how it'll go.

[412] Every once I'll be like, you know what?

[413] I'm going to start drinking.

[414] I'm going to smoke.

[415] That's what I need to do.

[416] That's the problem.

[417] I'm too good of a girl.

[418] And then I try and smoke pot and I feel like I'm going to die.

[419] Yeah.

[420] Well, you've lost probably a sense of control that you normally have.

[421] Or like, you know, my tongue would swell up.

[422] You know, it was just like, I'm just not built for this.

[423] Yeah.

[424] I was like, I'm never going to drink.

[425] Because my dad was an alcoholic.

[426] Everyone was an alcoholic.

[427] I wasn't going to do it.

[428] And then at some point I was like, you know what I need.

[429] I'm an icon of class, right?

[430] So I'm not going to receive some bit of information and not channel.

[431] I'm at least going to find out, right?

[432] And I told my mother, we know I shouldn't drink, but I need to find out.

[433] And she goes, I understand.

[434] And then 11 years later, I kind of came to.

[435] So I totally understand that route you chose in response to it.

[436] But are you attracted to addicts?

[437] Oh, absolutely.

[438] I've married them.

[439] There we go.

[440] And I'm married to a sober man now who was a drug and alcohol counselor for a while.

[441] I was going to say I read that he was a drug and alcohol counselor.

[442] And I thought most are addicts.

[443] That's right.

[444] So, you know, I've done my own work on myself and my relationship to addicts.

[445] Have you done Alan on?

[446] I have.

[447] Tell us the value of it.

[448] We've had a couple different guests who have like, it's changed their life.

[449] I'm an A, so it's a sister or brother program.

[450] For me, that program just helps me in every area of my life.

[451] And when you realize that you're there, not because you have an addict who you're in relationship with and you're upset about that, but you're really there for you.

[452] When that penny drops, life gets a lot better in every area.

[453] And you learn, you know, like it's okay to smile and wave to people who you know will complicate.

[454] your life.

[455] Yeah.

[456] Like it is very, very hard.

[457] When it goes against your instinct, when you are a person who wants to reach out and help and be there and help someone through and show them the way and make sure they're safe.

[458] And when you take on stuff that just isn't yours, it can be very complicated.

[459] And to learn that in some ways you're helping someone by not helping them.

[460] Yeah.

[461] That's a very hard thing to mature into.

[462] Especially if you're a parent.

[463] I can't imagine.

[464] Like I have an eight -year -old.

[465] If my child has an issue with addiction, like God help me, I hope.

[466] I handle it well.

[467] So, you know, it's interesting is my mother who's married to every addict she met, father an addict.

[468] And when I was an addict, it was really fascinating to watch how they both dealt with it.

[469] Because my dad was just like, he'll call me at some point.

[470] Right.

[471] And I'm not going to think about it until that day.

[472] I mean, literally, he saw it for sure.

[473] Did he get sober?

[474] Yeah, yeah.

[475] When I was 14, he got sober.

[476] He's like me. My wife will say, like, are you going to talk to someone and so?

[477] I'm like, it's not really how it works.

[478] Like, I can't make someone want to be sober.

[479] That's right.

[480] Now, when they want to get sober, fuck yeah, I'll call him a thousand times a day.

[481] but it just doesn't work.

[482] But it's so hard.

[483] Like, as someone who's not well -versed in that, it's so healthy to have that thought.

[484] It's very hard.

[485] But, like, to see someone you care about circling the drain.

[486] And also, you're scared they're going to die.

[487] Exactly.

[488] It's not just that they're miserable.

[489] They're fucking up their life.

[490] Their relationship's a disaster.

[491] They just got fired.

[492] But you know, addicts die.

[493] Yes, exactly.

[494] And that's a reality.

[495] It's very frightening to do nothing.

[496] Exactly.

[497] And then it makes you feel like a very bad person if you do nothing.

[498] I get it.

[499] And am I right to say, there's two appeals, right, if you're an ale and honor.

[500] One is you probably receive love for Maddox, right?

[501] So you have a very kind of well -known relationship.

[502] It's familiar.

[503] Ultimately valued at the times where they need your forgiveness, all these waves of highs and lows.

[504] That horrible cycle.

[505] And then the selfish part of it, which is hard to recognize, is like, by being linked to a tornado, you don't have to recognize that your house is slowly smoldering too.

[506] That's absolutely right.

[507] Yeah.

[508] Yeah, it's a very great excuse not to deal with yourself.

[509] Okay, Juilliard.

[510] Yes.

[511] That was fun.

[512] I want to see how it rears itself.

[513] Maybe you'll let us in along the voyage.

[514] But I had one quick question, and it's another selfish one.

[515] But you were at Juilliard.

[516] Maybe at the time my uncle was, did you cross -pollinate with any of the musicians?

[517] The four schools, opera, dance, drama, and music.

[518] When I was there, were completely separate worlds.

[519] Okay.

[520] Wildly separate.

[521] Now they intermingle more.

[522] They have mixers and stuff now.

[523] Yeah, they have mixers, you know.

[524] Hey, hey, trombone.

[525] How are you doing?

[526] Okay, well, he was a trumpet player, and he spent his entire life, he graduated, he went to, I want to say Boston Symphony Orchestra.

[527] He played for one season and has never touched the trumpet again.

[528] Oh, wow.

[529] Which I think is a kind of common story.

[530] Wow.

[531] Aren't you glad our kind of thing isn't as insane as that pursuit?

[532] Yes.

[533] Well, that's also a very lonely pursuit.

[534] It's so lonely.

[535] You have to be a sensitive introvert who is fulfilled by that, completely and only that.

[536] Well, I guess that was probably it.

[537] Maybe we wanted to be around some people.

[538] And not practice something eight hours a day.

[539] But, you know, like, if you and I take a year off from acting, likely we'll pick it up and be just fine.

[540] Yes.

[541] But if you're a trumpet player, if you don't do it four hours a day, you can't play the instrument.

[542] Well, it's kind of like the theater.

[543] You know, like you can be away for a while.

[544] Okay.

[545] But after too much time.

[546] What atrophies?

[547] Your voice.

[548] Oh, your voice.

[549] Vocally, you atrophy.

[550] And your body does as well.

[551] It's a beat down, right?

[552] There's a different thing to it.

[553] Kristen, so I wonder what your advice to her would be.

[554] She, of course, still has romantic notions of going back to theater.

[555] Yeah, she needs to do it.

[556] Well, I asked the wrong person.

[557] She actually has to do it.

[558] Okay.

[559] And as her spouse, I would highly advise, it would be very good for her on a very deep level.

[560] We just got somewhere really good.

[561] What would you guess is my hesitation?

[562] The time away.

[563] The personal inconvenience, yeah?

[564] The personal inconvenience.

[565] I get it.

[566] But your wife is more talented than people know.

[567] It's becoming more and more obvious.

[568] The bigger step she makes, Frozen was huge.

[569] I had no idea she could sing like that.

[570] And you knew her.

[571] And I knew her.

[572] I had no idea.

[573] And for people who come from the theater, it's a church.

[574] It's the sacred place.

[575] And if you're away from it too long, and if you are a true member of that church, there is something spiritually in you that starts to not feel right.

[576] She needs to fulfill that for herself.

[577] I will relay that to her.

[578] My issue is I protect her from getting bangs.

[579] You need to go to Al -Anon.

[580] You can't protect her from that.

[581] Every woman I've ever dated goes through a cycle.

[582] She's like, I want bangs.

[583] This is the most relatable topic of all time.

[584] Oh, you mean bangs, bangs?

[585] I thought you meant like critically banged.

[586] Who gives them?

[587] I don't care what people say about her.

[588] Hair bangs.

[589] Hair bangs.

[590] Every woman I've ever dated.

[591] I'm not going to speak for all women.

[592] One day they go, I want bangs.

[593] They see someone with bangs.

[594] It looks great.

[595] I want bangs.

[596] You go, go get them.

[597] I want to be Goldie Hawn and laughing.

[598] There you go.

[599] And then they get the bangs.

[600] And they look awful.

[601] Two weeks later, they go, oh, you fucking hate these bangs.

[602] I got it.

[603] And then I live through the next year where they grow the bangs out and they hate it.

[604] And they're training their bangs.

[605] And it's a whole thing.

[606] So I always say a man's number one obligation to a woman he loves is to prevent her from getting bangs.

[607] I don't think so.

[608] Some people love their bangs also.

[609] I think they have to have the lesson of getting the bangs.

[610] Okay.

[611] So I know which job she takes where she's miserable.

[612] So she's very romantic as I am too.

[613] We all have those jobs.

[614] And it's easier to see as a partner.

[615] And she says it to me too.

[616] She's like, I know you want to do that thing, but I just want to remind you when you did a thing that was identical to that, you didn't like it.

[617] Right.

[618] My hesitation is eight shows a week, vocal rest, all the things.

[619] My prediction is she's not going to like as much as she thinks.

[620] That's my fear.

[621] That could be.

[622] I think she would love an excuse to not talk.

[623] Great point.

[624] She would love it.

[625] That's a really good point.

[626] Yeah, she would love the vocal rest.

[627] What am I saying?

[628] You know, and when the theater is good, when the experience, is good, there's nothing like it.

[629] She does deserve it to be able to have that again.

[630] Oh, yeah.

[631] Look, I'm not seeing it in the way.

[632] I'm just reminding her that the workload is different.

[633] It is very different and if you're out of shape from it, it is a shock.

[634] There's no question.

[635] Like eight shows a week is very, very intense.

[636] The fatigue is very, very intense.

[637] The responsibility if you are the lead of a show is very high.

[638] There's all of that.

[639] So then you have children and family and you're trying to do all that.

[640] It's a lot on your plate.

[641] But...

[642] But...

[643] caveat when it's great you feel like you are fulfilling a part of yourself that can't be fulfilled anywhere else you're nurturing a side of you that nothing else can listen we have this agreement mine's motorcycles so she doesn't like that i raised motorcycles that sucks i get it i mean i'm like i don't want to be on planet earth and not do it right it's her motorcycle it's her motorcycle your husband what is that dynamic does he say to you Laura this sounds so fun i think you're gonna love it also do you remember you broke your ankle last time you did it no no he knows what's coming, but he also, he would never keep me from the theater.

[644] When you're doing a show, is it hard on the relationship?

[645] My husband is really good about all this stuff.

[646] I think that's a question for him, really, but it's hard with the kids.

[647] Right.

[648] Because you're not home at night, so you can't put them to bed.

[649] You're very tired in the morning, so it's very hard to get up and take them to school.

[650] You are on vocal rest.

[651] There is a period of time where you can't give it a minute to anyone.

[652] Right, energy -wise.

[653] That's right.

[654] That costs the family.

[655] You also already live in New York.

[656] Yes.

[657] Already, that's a huge step towards it working out.

[658] Yeah.

[659] You're used to not having a big yard.

[660] Correct.

[661] Yeah.

[662] Okay.

[663] Well, we could go through the many amazing things you did between Juilliard and today.

[664] But I guess for me, selfishly, I mean, of course, I saw you in the Truman Show.

[665] I saw you in primal fear.

[666] But when you can count on me came out in 2000, I want to say that's like the first indie movie where I was like, oh, I love this movie.

[667] It's so important.

[668] I see the value of these small moments.

[669] movie.

[670] Like, it just kind of was a paradigm shift for me about what kind of movies I might like.

[671] And you were such an integral part of that.

[672] And then also, like, discovering for me, Mark Ruffalo, I was like, who is that?

[673] Yes.

[674] Yeah.

[675] You're so good in it.

[676] You've grown the whole thing.

[677] You're the anchor.

[678] You make the whole movie work.

[679] But I do want to know, like, did you know him prior to that?

[680] Mark, no. This happens to all of us, right?

[681] You get on a set.

[682] For me, is May Whitman.

[683] I'm like, who's this kid?

[684] Why is she better than everyone?

[685] Did you just get elated with excitement?

[686] Kenny Lonergan wanted Mark to do it from the beginning.

[687] And there was some resistance because people thought we didn't look alike.

[688] And I always said, it doesn't matter.

[689] I know.

[690] It really does not matter.

[691] If we work well together, no one will bat an eye about it.

[692] And I remember the very first time I met him, we would get together to read together.

[693] And I was in the room.

[694] And he came up to me with his arms outstretched, his palms up.

[695] And he's one of the most generous people on the planet.

[696] And like, instantly I was like, oh my God.

[697] I love you like a brother.

[698] Who is this?

[699] He has just a totally different energy of generosity from anyone I had ever met before, an openness that really took my breath away.

[700] And every once in a while you get to work with someone who you just click with like that, it's magic.

[701] Now, what's interesting is from the outside of course, like that movie's really seminal in your career.

[702] It's really impactful had I not read the New York Times article about you.

[703] You would think that must have been like a real gravy point of your life.

[704] Right.

[705] Because you're getting nominated in the movies incredibly respected, but your house burns down, you're going through divorce.

[706] Everything's going shitty at that moment.

[707] And I wonder how I would have processed all that.

[708] Like, if I would have thought, this is uniquely cruel.

[709] Like, this is a moment of my life I've been working towards for many, many years.

[710] And I should be enjoying this.

[711] Yeah.

[712] Did you feel kind of like robbed of what that maybe experience could or should have been like?

[713] I just felt I was dealing with things I had never dealt before.

[714] I was dealing with an industry that all of a sudden had said, hey, come on in.

[715] Right.

[716] And you have to understand, like, my ambition was never film and TV, ever.

[717] It was the big surprise for me. Like, all of a sudden, I was doing it.

[718] I didn't suck at it.

[719] And then I was being encouraged.

[720] My expectations of what my life was started to shift a little bit.

[721] Sure.

[722] And then my personal life was not going.

[723] Swimmingly.

[724] Yeah.

[725] No, they were sort of going across currents at each other.

[726] So I was dealing with all these things that were just overwhelming.

[727] I was very disoriented during the.

[728] that period of time.

[729] And I still look back on it and get a little unstable on my feet.

[730] Interesting, because I was going to ask from the 22 -year rearview mirror, does it appear?

[731] Because to me, it goes, oh, wow, you were about to take this entirely different course.

[732] Yes.

[733] So this show doesn't exist unless I have this failure chips where I work for two and a half years.

[734] It doesn't open.

[735] And I'm like, oh, in my mind, I was going to be writing and directing for the next 12 years.

[736] That was guaranteed.

[737] And now I was like, oh, I'm not doing any of that.

[738] And now I'm doing this.

[739] And it's almost like, of course, in retrospect, it kind of makes sense.

[740] Yeah, you're being pushed in directions you don't even realize.

[741] Yes, I'm going to actually kind of phoenix in metamorphosize.

[742] So maybe from this point of view makes sense at this point.

[743] I think a lot of pain didn't have to happen.

[744] Right, right.

[745] For everyone involved.

[746] So it was a real seminal time.

[747] Yeah.

[748] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[749] What's up, guys?

[750] It's your girl Kiki.

[751] And my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[752] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[753] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[754] And I don't mean just friends.

[755] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[756] The list goes on.

[757] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[758] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[759] We've all been there.

[760] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[761] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[762] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[763] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[764] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[765] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[766] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[767] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[768] And then you take off on this trajectory and you do a bunch of incredible movies, and then the next thing I would love to just touch in on is the Big C. because I was in the groundlings.

[769] I lived on $8 ,000 a year.

[770] I broke all the tendons that hold your clavicle in.

[771] And one of my fellow groundlings, Darling Hunt, said, what is going on with your shoulder?

[772] And I said, oh, I need surgery, but I don't have insurance.

[773] So I'm waitlisted at UCLA Harbor.

[774] It could be a few months.

[775] So I'm just living with my bone protruding up a few inches.

[776] It was gnarly.

[777] And Darling Hunt, who was a bit successful then, but not really.

[778] She had written some things.

[779] She said, please let me pay for you to have that fixed.

[780] And I had known her for maybe six months.

[781] What a nice thing to know about someone.

[782] It's one of the most like beautifully generous things.

[783] Anyone's ever offered me. I couldn't accept it back to your nice baggage.

[784] I can't receive help from you.

[785] I've got to give you help somehow.

[786] I could have never received it, but man, did it blow me away?

[787] I think about it all the time.

[788] She didn't have the safety net to offer to do that for me. And she did.

[789] And she She created the big C. So I just was wondering, do you have those fond memories of her?

[790] She's on a different wavelength than other people.

[791] Oh, yeah.

[792] Oh, she really is.

[793] Big time.

[794] And that show was such an unusual thing to place cancer within the context of comedy.

[795] And that was all her.

[796] And kind of novel at that moment.

[797] Yeah, it was.

[798] But also what you realize when you're going through a trial like that, or you are helping shepherd someone through a cancer diagnosis or even to their death, perhaps, the more threatened you are, the more absurd things are.

[799] you become.

[800] It hit on a truth that I found really fascinating.

[801] There's this great kind of long comedy, which is like, the joke that's going to score the highest is the one that's breaking the most amount of tension.

[802] Like, you could have kind of a six joke, but placed at the right point where people are going to die if someone doesn't make that joke.

[803] It's also like there's something about comedy at the right moment that reveals a truth.

[804] It's the relief of seeing a truth that makes you laugh, that has a catharsis.

[805] Yeah.

[806] So I've always thought of comedy as a survival technique?

[807] Big time, yeah.

[808] You think about the court jester and what their job was speaking truth to power in a way that was disguised in a cloak of comedy.

[809] Try to curb the king a little bit.

[810] Try to like ring the bell of truth in a way that you can't unhear it.

[811] No matter how it's presented, you're like, oh, that's true.

[812] Right.

[813] That's why we're all laughing collectively because we all recognize it in the exact same moment as the truth.

[814] Yeah.

[815] When the joke doesn't reveal a truth, there's no unison.

[816] Yeah.

[817] That's why John Stewart was so successful.

[818] Why Colbert was so successful.

[819] They got right in there.

[820] Okay.

[821] And then the other fun thing is we were obsessed with Dalton Abbey.

[822] Everyone was, right?

[823] Yeah, it was really fun.

[824] Yeah.

[825] And so I'm wondering like, What were you doing there?

[826] What in the world were you doing there?

[827] No. That's not even my question as much as someone calls you at some point and they go, how would you like to introduce this show?

[828] What was the call?

[829] What they were doing is they were reinventing the beginning of Masterpiece Theater.

[830] They were going to do Masterpiece Classic, Masterpiece Theater, and Masterpiece Something Else, and they would have three hosts who would sort of take over what Alistair Cook had done in the past.

[831] Which, again, if people known in the history, that's how they always started.

[832] That's how they always started.

[833] When I was growing up and watching upstairs downstairs, Alistair Cook would be sitting in the chair with a brandy sniffter.

[834] He'd introduce the show, and it was the tradition of the show.

[835] He was the host.

[836] That's right.

[837] So they were continuing that.

[838] And so I was Masterpiece Classic.

[839] So it wasn't just Downton that I was doing.

[840] Right.

[841] It was a variety of shows.

[842] so I did them.

[843] I'm not thinking much of it.

[844] I was just excited to be in the tradition of Alistair Cook.

[845] I just got a bit of a thrill about that.

[846] I had no idea that those shows would be as successful as they were and that the conceit was a little kind of enjoyable.

[847] It didn't quite work.

[848] So it became a bit of a thing.

[849] I loved it.

[850] Because I knew the masterpiece theater thing.

[851] So you knew it.

[852] But I think for our generation, it made sense.

[853] For the people who are younger, I think they were like, what is she doing?

[854] Why is the lady from the Truman Show up there doing that like tell her to go away i'm going to argue that what really happened was the younger people are like well she's in this show because they know you so they're like oh great she's in this show at some point because you're right they have no context so they don't understand why you're there other than i think the most logical assumption is you're in the show and then you're watching the show and when is she popping up oh i never thought about that i never thought about that that's happening really yes and then you go through the end of season one and well jesus wow i guess season two, they're going to put her in there.

[855] And then I got replaced by a Ralph Lauren ad, basically, over time.

[856] What do you mean?

[857] I still do the narration.

[858] I still do the voiceovers for it, and I love doing it.

[859] But they took me off camera because they had the opportunity to, I think, get some funding from Ralph Lauren.

[860] Got to take it.

[861] Hey.

[862] Because the show didn't it wasn't enormously globally successful.

[863] We got to get that extra 10 grand.

[864] And then there was a cruise line, the Viking cruise line as well.

[865] Oh, wow.

[866] Well, that one I welcome.

[867] Are you a fan of 60 Minutes?

[868] Did you ever watch 60 minutes?

[869] Of course I watched 60 minutes.

[870] It was my favorite show of all time.

[871] And Viking Cruise has been the most loyal supporter.

[872] And I'll tell you.

[873] Have you ever been?

[874] You were a been on one?

[875] Did you go?

[876] That's what I want to tell you.

[877] All growing up was like, what a boring fucking cruise.

[878] You're on that little boat and you're just seated.

[879] Okay, that was how I felt about it for about 20 years.

[880] In the last five years, I see this.

[881] I'm like, my God, this is my way of sight scene.

[882] I sit and eat while the scenery is brought to me. And now it seems like the coolest thing ever.

[883] Through.

[884] Have you done one?

[885] No. Are you intrigued?

[886] I think I would want to do it with people I know.

[887] Right.

[888] You don't want to be a goldfish in a bowl, but the notion of just seated, right?

[889] Could be really fun.

[890] Maybe we'd all be playing cards or chatting and then, oh, I'll have my fan.

[891] I'll just sit there and watch the Alps go by.

[892] Cool lemonade.

[893] You know, absolutely.

[894] And then, oh, you look at this castle.

[895] Oh, look at that thing.

[896] It really appeals to me now.

[897] I also have a fantasy about train travel.

[898] Like, I wish I could do old -fashioned train travel.

[899] I love that.

[900] I find that very romantic.

[901] Very romantic.

[902] Yeah.

[903] I will tell you a bummer of a story.

[904] I've had that fantasy forever.

[905] My ex -girlfriend is from Washington State and one Christmas, we always goes back for Christmas.

[906] I go, let's do it this year.

[907] Sleeper car, the whole night.

[908] Yeah.

[909] We get on it.

[910] Man, this is awesome.

[911] It's exactly what we wanted.

[912] Mind you, it showed up three hours late.

[913] That's a little rough.

[914] By the time we got to Washington, it was 23 hours late.

[915] 23 hours.

[916] A day late.

[917] We kept having to pull so that freight trains could go by and was just getting worse and worse and worse.

[918] So relaxing evening.

[919] Well, it ended up being a full two and a half days to get to Seattle.

[920] And then all of the toilets on the other three passenger cars had backed up.

[921] The food ran out.

[922] When we got to Portland, like the last city before there, they were like, if you want to get off and take a bus, we recommend that.

[923] Oh, my God.

[924] So I just hope if you go down that path, it's a little better of an experience than I had.

[925] But there was a moment cruising through Santa Barbara on the silver surfer in the dining car with the glass.

[926] I mean, come on.

[927] What kind do you want to do?

[928] I kind of want to do one through the Rockies where, like, somehow there's steam coming out of the engine.

[929] I want to do like Orient Express.

[930] Okay.

[931] Or the Blue Note.

[932] Tell me the Blue Note.

[933] I think that's through Africa.

[934] Oh, really?

[935] Yeah.

[936] I'd like to go somewhere where I've never been.

[937] Have it be truly magical.

[938] No one's worried about getting carsick.

[939] You don't get carsick?

[940] Really?

[941] No, not at all.

[942] Are you sure?

[943] Positive.

[944] Because they can't make sharp turns.

[945] That's very gentle.

[946] I love the trains.

[947] I wish the United States had a better train system.

[948] Have you done your rally trips?

[949] Yes, I did your rail trips.

[950] I took a summer off.

[951] I'm going to go see Europe alone.

[952] Alone!

[953] While I was at Juilliard, actually, I took some time off and I went.

[954] Where did you go?

[955] I went through Switzerland.

[956] I went to Germany.

[957] I went through France.

[958] It was great.

[959] That's probably my favorite trip of my life is being 19 and doing that.

[960] Yeah, because you're doing things for the first time on your own.

[961] So there's a self -sufficiency that's, you're like, oh, I can do this.

[962] That's what it is for us.

[963] touching adulthood here.

[964] And I'm using all of the tools that my parents taught me or other people taught me or my community taught me. You learn more about yourself when you're traveling, I think, than any other time.

[965] Because everything that identifies you, that makes you feel safe, that support system's gone.

[966] So lonely.

[967] You learn about yourself in a whole different way.

[968] Well, I hadn't thought of that aspect that, of course, you and I have been training our whole life for this.

[969] So every time you get on the URL, you would end up in a city and I'd have all this anxiety like pulling in where do i stay maps fucking fold out maps where's the hostel i can't read anything so anxiety test completion yeah i did it yeah i'm good i'm okay yes that's probably why it appealed to me so much yeah yeah every three days i got to reprove to myself i was yeah yeah did you also get off on the budgeting aspect that was my favorite oh yeah yeah did you love budgeting your money like oh i have x amount i think i had travelers check Oh, baby.

[970] How sexy is that?

[971] Yes.

[972] And I actually just found one in the depths of a drawer with my old signature, my old, like, collegiate signature that looks nothing like the way I signed my name.

[973] It was wild.

[974] What was the value of it?

[975] It was $20.

[976] It was $20.

[977] Really nice.

[978] Yeah, it was great.

[979] I feel like it should be worth $100 right now.

[980] I know.

[981] And the packing and the unpacking and what do I need and like the getting rid of things.

[982] I remember I read East of Eden on the train through Europe.

[983] And I would take the chapters as I finish it.

[984] I'd rip them off.

[985] Wow.

[986] And I'd leave them.

[987] Oh.

[988] I'd reave them around Europe.

[989] It was really fun.

[990] Yeah.

[991] And I was reading such an American story while I was in Europe.

[992] So it was really fun.

[993] Yeah.

[994] Salinas, you're learning about like weird.

[995] California.

[996] Bizarre.

[997] That is so funny.

[998] Similarly, I went one time later when I was 20 with my buddies.

[999] And one of my buddies, I didn't know was such a genius.

[1000] What he did is he, in his backpack, he bought 20, brand new white t -shirts, 20 brand -new white pair of underwear, 20 brand -new pair of socks, two pair of jeans.

[1001] Every day, he'd take off his t -shirt, take off his socks, take off his underwear, throw him right in the trash.

[1002] He was just getting lighter and lighter every day.

[1003] Isn't that clever?

[1004] Yeah.

[1005] I mean, there's a little moral dilemma with the...

[1006] Yeah, way, sure.

[1007] But you know what, fuck it.

[1008] In the 80s, no one cared.

[1009] No, it was great.

[1010] Now we must talk about Ozark.

[1011] Okay.

[1012] Ozarks.

[1013] Ozark.

[1014] Oh, okay.

[1015] Oh, okay.

[1016] You know what it is?

[1017] Here's what happens.

[1018] Because I'm from Detroit.

[1019] I had an As to everything, and she corrects me. Oh, you doze?

[1020] Kmart's, Ford's.

[1021] I have a theory on it.

[1022] I don't know if it's true.

[1023] But because all of our industry, primarily were started by actual humans that the product bore their name.

[1024] I think people would say, like, I work at Ford's.

[1025] Like Ford's Place.

[1026] Like that person.

[1027] Yeah.

[1028] The house of.

[1029] Yeah.

[1030] Because it was a person at some point.

[1031] It wasn't like I work at Ford.

[1032] It's like I work at Mike's.

[1033] It's a good theory.

[1034] Okay, thank you.

[1035] I'm glad that you co -signed a little bit on it.

[1036] I do.

[1037] White castles.

[1038] White castles.

[1039] Okay, Ozark.

[1040] Ozark was this kind of remarkable experience in that, like, it all lined up.

[1041] It's almost down in Abbey all over again.

[1042] I want a numerical value of your expectations versus the result out of ten.

[1043] I wasn't looking to do a TV series.

[1044] I find the culture of television very challenging.

[1045] What aspect?

[1046] There tends to be a resistance for writers to collaborate with actors, for producers to share information.

[1047] There is a business aspect to it that has molded it and calcels.

[1048] it, which it's shaking up now, but for a long time, where it is not the most collaborative of experiences.

[1049] Ozark was wonderfully collaborative.

[1050] Did you have all the scripts for the season before you didn't?

[1051] But our showrunner would sit down with us and say, this is where your character's going for the year.

[1052] Thank you.

[1053] That's great.

[1054] I don't need this specific, but just to have a basic idea.

[1055] You have Bateman there who also is coming from film up to that point for the last 10 years.

[1056] That helps, right?

[1057] Yeah, absolutely.

[1058] He, Chris Mundy, and our producer, Patrick Market, created an unbelievable working environment from the get -go.

[1059] I sat down with him, and I was like, huh, he's stepping into another lane.

[1060] I was like, good for him.

[1061] And there's certain people who you meet and you can see, and you're like, there's more to them than they have been allowed to explore, or they have not wanted to do it.

[1062] And the other person who I felt this way about was Hugh Grant, when I did love actually with him and got to know him a little bit.

[1063] And we're not friends or anything, but we work together during that period of time.

[1064] And I remember saying to him.

[1065] I'm like, you're going to do a little drama?

[1066] And when Bateman sat down with me, I was like, oh, good for him.

[1067] You can see it in them.

[1068] And he's hyper -intelligent, which you kind of find out really quick.

[1069] And he is a child of this industry and of this town, and he has very good taste.

[1070] And he understands the mediums really well.

[1071] He also loves it.

[1072] He's a total camera geek, techno -geek.

[1073] Like, he loves all that stuff.

[1074] He appreciates different types of actors.

[1075] He's funny the crew adores him he was a really really amazing leader it's a remarkable thing that he did being down there is that fine like being down in atlanta i loved it it's getting fun there i loved being in atlanta i think it is alive and active and there's circulation get in there now house prices are rising oh it's incredibly expensive now but it's a wonderful city and i found it a very honest city i found it an exciting city as far as the politics of it was fascinating yeah and having a history with the state of Georgia and then seeing what it's become within that metropolis was really exciting.

[1076] And it's a far more liberated city than any other city I've been to, far more than New York.

[1077] It's integrated in a way that you just don't see anywhere else.

[1078] You just don't.

[1079] It's a real lesson living there for a while.

[1080] For me, watching your character, the moment I like the most, was you go from, oh, this person's probably going to stand in the way of all the things that the male guy wants to do.

[1081] It's going to be like Rocky and Adrian are begging him not to box.

[1082] And then when you start getting your hands dirty, I'm like, here we go.

[1083] Now we got two fucking leads that are going to kick some ass and can do the dirty shit when it needs doing.

[1084] Was that like a big, let's party playing the character?

[1085] I realized there's the scene in the first season where she flings the possum on top of the.

[1086] And we had that scene.

[1087] I thought, how does she know how to do that?

[1088] How does a woman from Chicago?

[1089] How is she not afraid of a dead possum?

[1090] And how does she know how to touch it, handle it, fling it?

[1091] And I'm like, oh, she's not from Chicago.

[1092] Oh.

[1093] I was like, oh, she's not a middle class person.

[1094] Why does she know how to talk to these people?

[1095] Like, oh, she's closer to them.

[1096] She's closer to the life of the Langmore's than she is to the life that she was living in Chicago.

[1097] She's the Laurelini in the one -bedroom apartment.

[1098] Her neighbors.

[1099] Well, yeah.

[1100] Her neighbors weren't her classmates.

[1101] That's exactly what it was.

[1102] And I always had an instinct from the very beginning that the show was about identity.

[1103] And I talked to Chris Mundy, our showrunner, about that a lot.

[1104] I was like, if it could be something about identity.

[1105] I don't know why I thought that, but I just did.

[1106] And the country was going through a period of time where we were all asking ourselves, like, who are we?

[1107] Who am I?

[1108] What do we believe in?

[1109] What is my country believe in?

[1110] What is my state believe in?

[1111] What is my household believe?

[1112] Like, who the fuck are we right now?

[1113] And I think that sort of worked its way for me, personally, into the story.

[1114] And I was like, oh, shit.

[1115] She's been trying to get away from who she really is for a very, very long time, which is why she also resists going to the Ozarks in the first place.

[1116] And then she gets there, and her authentic self sort of rages out.

[1117] Or blossoms, if you like carnage like I do.

[1118] So that was really fun.

[1119] Yeah.

[1120] I also, like, too, it's got a very fair way to view people, which, again, being from the wrong side of the tracks, it's like one of the smartest characters on the show is Julia's character.

[1121] And I love that.

[1122] Like, everyone could have been played one.

[1123] We could have had hillbillies fill these archetypes, but she's the genius on the show at times, right?

[1124] Absolutely.

[1125] Kind of another Mark Ruffalo moment?

[1126] And she has, like, the biggest heart.

[1127] There's nobody like Julia.

[1128] Julia is a totally unique creature.

[1129] The combination of that actress with that part was astounding to watch.

[1130] And I have never worked with anyone who has a natural cinematic charisma the way that she does.

[1131] She would have moments where she would just turn her head and I'd be like, oh, my God.

[1132] And to watch her grow during the four seasons to see her get her feet on the ground, figure it out, and also give herself permission to really go there.

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] She's a really unique, crazy, talented person.

[1135] Someone just criticized me for this online, so I blocked them.

[1136] But I'm going to tell you what the criticism was.

[1137] I wanted to know if you guys agree.

[1138] They were mad that I sometimes tell guests who I think they look like.

[1139] Is that offensive?

[1140] What's wrong with that?

[1141] Can you find a problem with that?

[1142] I don't know.

[1143] It depends on who you say.

[1144] Right.

[1145] Exactly, right?

[1146] Like, if someone I think looks like Shrek, I won't say it.

[1147] Do you get told?

[1148] I am told all the time.

[1149] Nicole Kidman?

[1150] No, I never get Nicole.

[1151] I can see it.

[1152] It's driving me bonkers.

[1153] You have a certain angle.

[1154] I love you.

[1155] You have an angle that I'm like, oh my God, it's Nicole Kidman.

[1156] Oh, it's been driving me bonkers this whole time.

[1157] I already liked you before I came in.

[1158] Now, it's a whole other category.

[1159] I'm going to go further.

[1160] I'm going to go days of thunder, Nicole Kidman.

[1161] Boom!

[1162] Wait, I want to know who were you thinking he was going to say?

[1163] Everybody says Laura Dern.

[1164] Laura Dern and I have a whole long -running thing about it.

[1165] I could see, yeah.

[1166] She's a wonderful.

[1167] She's wonderful.

[1168] She's fantastic.

[1169] It's a complete compliment.

[1170] But it's so funny.

[1171] I get that a lot.

[1172] I get Helen Hunt sometimes.

[1173] Okay.

[1174] Then there are a few people I get who I'm not crazy to be.

[1175] So I'm not going to just omit that.

[1176] But what I do get, this happened just yet.

[1177] yesterday at the hotel.

[1178] There's what she goes, you're Laura, you're Laura, right?

[1179] That's who you are, you're Laura.

[1180] I had my mask on.

[1181] I'm like, yes, you're Wendy.

[1182] You're Wendy.

[1183] Yes, I'm going to, you look so much better in person.

[1184] I get that too.

[1185] Why do they make you look so bad on the TV show?

[1186] Because you look so young and so pretty, and why did they do that to you?

[1187] Why do they hate you?

[1188] Why do they hate you that way?

[1189] I get that a lot, actually.

[1190] That happened to me at a fucking award show.

[1191] I was presenting, and I had never met the singer they paired me with, and like literally two sentences into the thing.

[1192] Oh, you're not an ogre.

[1193] She turned to me and she goes, oh, my God, you're so much better looking in person.

[1194] And I was like, oh, Jesus.

[1195] I get that all the time.

[1196] And you just don't know how to.

[1197] I guess it is preferable to you're so much less attractive in person.

[1198] And sometimes it's a total choice.

[1199] I mean, sometimes it's character work and it's a choice.

[1200] I'm always trying to look hot, Laura.

[1201] I don't know.

[1202] You're a better actor than me. But I get that a lot.

[1203] And my heart distress goes a little.

[1204] little like, okay, back to the durn thing.

[1205] So I have it with Zach Braff.

[1206] So Zach Braff, his whole career and my whole career, not as much anymore because I'm a big boy now, but we used to get it all the time.

[1207] And then, of course, you didn't talk about it when you run into each other, which is kind of fun.

[1208] And then you hear what their strategy is, right?

[1209] Right.

[1210] For you, I wonder what arc it's on because mine was like, no, that's not me. Oh, and I just say thank you.

[1211] So now just over the years, it's like it's so much easier.

[1212] I'll sign his name.

[1213] That's right.

[1214] Okay, great.

[1215] So that's where you're at.

[1216] Yes, absolutely.

[1217] Alice and Bree and Brie Larson, same thing.

[1218] They said they've had a lot of miscommunications, and they just at this point are like, yeah, that's me. Yeah, I know.

[1219] I know.

[1220] I know.

[1221] Yeah.

[1222] The other great one is Dylan McDermott.

[1223] Oh, God.

[1224] Dermit Mulrooney.

[1225] Classic.

[1226] No one fucking knows who's who.

[1227] Yep.

[1228] There's great S &L sketch on.

[1229] I mean, poor guys.

[1230] So part two.

[1231] So the season was broken half, I guess.

[1232] It was.

[1233] We filmed all 14 episodes over a year.

[1234] During quarantine?

[1235] During quarantine.

[1236] We went back to work in September.

[1237] And the first several months were very.

[1238] Rocky with COVID.

[1239] Did you guys get shut down a lot?

[1240] Not a lot, but a few times.

[1241] Okay.

[1242] And just no one knew anything.

[1243] Nobody knew what was going on.

[1244] There were no vaccines at the time.

[1245] It was Georgia where it was a little controversial about the existence of COVID.

[1246] So there were a lot of people who were not wearing masks.

[1247] I mean, everyone on set was wearing masks, but just you had to go get groceries.

[1248] Yeah.

[1249] You had to live your life outside of work.

[1250] So it was very intense.

[1251] I had a few moments where I was like, what am I doing?

[1252] I am the mother of a young child.

[1253] Like, I can't, die now because of I'm on a TV show.

[1254] Like, this is absurd.

[1255] But thank God, again, it was a testament to our crew and our cast because we all knew each other.

[1256] We had a crew that stayed together the entire time, which was unusual.

[1257] Unheard of.

[1258] So I couldn't have done it with another group of people.

[1259] That's a testament to you guys, the actors, and abatement.

[1260] To everybody.

[1261] We trusted each other.

[1262] Like, I completely trusted that people were behaving themselves, that they realized that we are interdependent right now, that my actions can shut this down.

[1263] But it was an intense period to time.

[1264] There's no question.

[1265] It's also intense because it was our last season and we knew it was our last season.

[1266] Right.

[1267] It's emotional.

[1268] And there was something about coming back to work and everything around you said, danger, danger, danger, danger, you're in danger, you're in danger, take off the masks and connect and relax.

[1269] Yeah.

[1270] Like it was hard to get to a really centered place to actually work.

[1271] I was just a little unnerved.

[1272] I'm so glad you guys have been celebrated in the way you have and then it was such a hit.

[1273] You couldn't have foreseen what an enormous hit it was going to be.

[1274] I had no idea.

[1275] Right.

[1276] It's kind of like down -abby thing, I think.

[1277] Do you generally have, like, downsize expectations?

[1278] Yeah.

[1279] You never want to get too excited.

[1280] No, I don't, you know.

[1281] It's also like, I got to do it.

[1282] That's the prize.

[1283] Well, that's nice, but that's definitely a place you get to.

[1284] Or are you always that way?

[1285] I was always that way.

[1286] No kidding.

[1287] I was like, oh, I got to work with these people.

[1288] I love this.

[1289] I love the process.

[1290] And the rest of it is sort of like, oh, like, okay.

[1291] And even if something's bad, even if something fails miserably.

[1292] If I had a great time doing it, I don't know, it's really good.

[1293] That's so healthy.

[1294] I wonder if that's a Broadway thing because Kristen's the same way.

[1295] She doesn't know what any of her movies have made other than that she knows Frozen's in the billions.

[1296] But aside from that, she has no fucking clue.

[1297] I also don't watch anything that I'm in.

[1298] Well, theater is so process -oriented.

[1299] That's the whole point of it.

[1300] And so maybe you carry that on.

[1301] Maybe, yeah.

[1302] That's true.

[1303] And there's no permanence.

[1304] I know this about being at the ground lanes, which is like the show is it.

[1305] Yeah.

[1306] It's not like you're hoping that when those people go home somehow that carries on for another, whatever.

[1307] It's impermanent.

[1308] Yeah, it lives in a sort of magical.

[1309] little place.

[1310] There's something about when you do a show for the last time, the last night of a show, it's while you, like, say the lines and you can literally see them float away.

[1311] Oh, wow.

[1312] Is it sad or is it joyful?

[1313] It's sad if it's a great experience and you're fucking thrilled if it's been a nightmare.

[1314] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1315] You're saying, I mean, you're like, get out of here.

[1316] Yeah.

[1317] You know, it's fantastic.

[1318] So it depends.

[1319] You must have one absurd, because the one thing about being on Broadway, too, that scares me, is you do the show, and then it's commonplace for, like, if there was a senator in the audience or something, they're going to get to come talk to you.

[1320] Right.

[1321] And so there's a good deal of small talk involved with the job that you wouldn't necessarily gear yourself up for.

[1322] That would be the part that would be really hard for me. Do you have any, like, just apex of absurdity in those years of being on Broadway where, like, they brought, like, Django's the famous chimp back there?

[1323] Sure.

[1324] There's all of that.

[1325] But then it's also what people feel they have to say to you, particularly if the show isn't maybe that good.

[1326] and like, listen, people know when they're not good.

[1327] Like, I know when it's not working.

[1328] I know.

[1329] And, like, I'm okay with that.

[1330] It's just part of it.

[1331] But then you get people who, they know they have to say something to you, but they can't pull off saying you were really good.

[1332] So they're like, you.

[1333] Oh, you were in it.

[1334] You.

[1335] Oh, my God.

[1336] You did it.

[1337] They come back and they go, how do I get out of here?

[1338] I was brought to your room.

[1339] Do you validate the parking?

[1340] What was the most shocking the door open?

[1341] You're like, oh, my God, that human beings in my orbit?

[1342] When Maggie Smith came, I did a play in London called My Name is Lucy Barton, and it was a one -woman show.

[1343] It's the hardest thing I've ever done.

[1344] And I walked up the stairs after the show for the opening night, because they do like small little gatherings and lobbies there, which is very nice.

[1345] And I walked up, and there was Maggie Smith.

[1346] And I almost turned and ran.

[1347] I could not believe she was there.

[1348] Thank God, I didn't know she was there.

[1349] I'm still not quite over it.

[1350] It was an amazing thing.

[1351] That's awesome.

[1352] Did you shoot the shit for a minute?

[1353] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1354] Did you guys embrace?

[1355] Yeah.

[1356] Yes, and we've become friends, actually.

[1357] Oh, my God, this is a hit.

[1358] And we're about to go work together.

[1359] Get the fuck out of here.

[1360] I know, isn't that crazy?

[1361] And she wrote me a note, which I have framed.

[1362] I love it.

[1363] I have it framed.

[1364] And literally, it's the thing I look to.

[1365] I'm like, I don't need another good review.

[1366] I don't care if I get her an award.

[1367] I don't care about a nomination.

[1368] Like, I have a note from, a Maggie Smith basically that says I don't suck.

[1369] Ah, there you go.

[1370] That's enough.

[1371] It's a really nice thing to have.

[1372] Okay.

[1373] I want to hear more about the wedding we went to.

[1374] Yeah.

[1375] We got more details.

[1376] There were other famous people there, too.

[1377] Okay, so everyone should check out part two of the last season of Ozark.

[1378] What a tremendous run.

[1379] I'm so glad you guys all got to do that.

[1380] April 29th, check it out.

[1381] Laurelini, thanks so much for comedy.

[1382] It is really a pleasure.

[1383] It's a pleasure spending time with both of you.

[1384] Thank you so much.

[1385] Mickey Kidman.

[1386] There she is.

[1387] Mickey Kitty.

[1388] Good day.

[1389] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1390] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1391] I'm a messy boy.

[1392] That's okay.

[1393] It's liberating.

[1394] Once we start recording in the day, I love that.

[1395] Oh, that's the priority.

[1396] So I don't really care what's falling by the wayside.

[1397] There's something kind of liberating, isn't it?

[1398] It's like when you click into the bubble.

[1399] And then we come out.

[1400] of it at like 4 p .m. Yeah.

[1401] And then I check.

[1402] I never thought about what was not being answered.

[1403] Yeah.

[1404] I kind of like it.

[1405] Similarly, when we're recording, I'm like, by all means necessary, if I got to be ripping through toothpicks and they fall on the ground, like, it's not my priority.

[1406] Nope.

[1407] And then you turn over your lazy boy chair.

[1408] And it looks like ferrets live in here.

[1409] And they've been collecting water caps, trinkets, toothpicks, empty toothpick holders.

[1410] It'd be a really good presence for the crow to bring somebody else.

[1411] Like small, easy to care.

[1412] Yes.

[1413] We should maybe leave the door open at nights, maybe a crow can...

[1414] Did I tell you about the most incredible thing I observed?

[1415] I filmed it, too.

[1416] Tell me. There was a National Geographic show happening in the backyard.

[1417] I heard all the crows going crazy.

[1418] I already forgot my crow call.

[1419] I had it for a couple weeks.

[1420] I go outside and I look in the sky, and these four crow are battling a hawk.

[1421] So I think they must have baby somewhere, and the hawk must have been scoping the baby.

[1422] This is what I'm guessing.

[1423] because we have a hawk that's always here.

[1424] The hawk is a tenant in the backyard.

[1425] Okay.

[1426] It lives in a, yeah.

[1427] I love that because, you know, my dad's whole thing with the hawks and then I'm the crow.

[1428] So you got the crows over in one corner, you got the hawk in the other.

[1429] I love it.

[1430] Me and my dad are here.

[1431] And this went on for like an hour and a half.

[1432] The hawk would get up in the air and on the crows would fly and try to bomb it.

[1433] They'd never hit them.

[1434] They'd get really close to him trying to scare them.

[1435] And they were working in tandem as a murder.

[1436] The hawk didn't seem to give a shit.

[1437] But they were driving it away.

[1438] I never saw getting the eggs or young or anything.

[1439] So I guess they were successful.

[1440] The hawk's just like, oh, you guys.

[1441] So cute.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] I was nervous for the hawk.

[1444] I'm like, these girls are definitely, because they were the, I felt like the same size, ish.

[1445] Skanky.

[1446] Okay.

[1447] Yeah, we were going to keep the door open.

[1448] We're going to leave the door open as Bruno Mars and Anderson Pack would say.

[1449] I'm going to leave the door.

[1450] Oh, how's that one?

[1451] Like, just like that.

[1452] Oh, okay.

[1453] That's right.

[1454] I had a dream about Ashley Olson or Mary Kate.

[1455] It wasn't clear in the dream, but one of the twins.

[1456] Okay.

[1457] That's not going to do you much favor when trying to become friends with them if you can't distinguish them.

[1458] If what they hear from you is that they're interchangeable, either will do.

[1459] No, I love them both.

[1460] Were they both in it or just one of them?

[1461] Just one.

[1462] I didn't get to talk to them really, I don't think.

[1463] It was more of a voyeuristic dream.

[1464] It was probably Ashley.

[1465] Probably because that's who we talked.

[1466] about more.

[1467] Yes.

[1468] Anyway, so I had this whole dream, and I don't remember the details, but I remember it was intoxicating.

[1469] Oh, really?

[1470] You don't even remember, like, were you friends with her in the dream?

[1471] I don't remember.

[1472] Okay.

[1473] I remember only one thing, which is, like, there was a picture of her in black and white.

[1474] Oh, beautiful.

[1475] It was beautiful.

[1476] Anyway, this was two nights ago, and yesterday was their birthday.

[1477] Right.

[1478] Sim.

[1479] That means something.

[1480] That means Sim.

[1481] Listen, I had this crazy.

[1482] dream about them two nights ago then dug dug goose it was their birthday yesterday that's it's ding ding ding but what if you don't think you could have seen it like um at a glance at their birthday was coming up that wouldn't have been announced that's true no it was on who what wear a fashion site you know because they're fashion icons uh -huh so just like happy birthday to these fashion icons basically do you have this so okay I had like this really protracted dream on Friday night about Cooper.

[1483] Okay.

[1484] And it was a dream that would have caused alarm.

[1485] Like, you know, like, I should check in on him.

[1486] Oh, no. Uh -huh.

[1487] He was really long.

[1488] Well, he was suffering.

[1489] So, and it was like a three, four -hour dream.

[1490] It went on forever.

[1491] Okay.

[1492] So I texted them like, hey, bud, had a really long dream about you a couple nights ago.

[1493] How you doing?

[1494] Now, when I send that, this is what I want to be honest about.

[1495] Okay.

[1496] I kind of want something bad to have been happening.

[1497] to him to prove that I'm clairvoyant and connected to him.

[1498] That's really bad.

[1499] I know.

[1500] That's why I'm admitting it.

[1501] Okay, but I have to still just reiterate that.

[1502] Yeah, you can lay on even more.

[1503] He responds like, doing great, sends me a picture of him and his daughter.

[1504] And of course, I'm relieved because I had a really bad dream.

[1505] But then there's a part of me that's like I'm not as connected to the spirit world or whatever it is as I thought it was.

[1506] Because I guess when I checked in on him, I had maybe a 12 to 24 % chance of like that he was going to say, oh, my God, I'm so glad you text.

[1507] It wasn't like you thought maybe he was dead.

[1508] No. He just needed your advice or something.

[1509] He needed some help.

[1510] Yeah.

[1511] He needed some help.

[1512] Yes, of course, of course, yeah.

[1513] All right.

[1514] And again, I don't want to, it's not worth him having relapsed to be right.

[1515] Let's make this very clear.

[1516] This is kind of like me wanting you to get shoved or something in public so I can come unglued.

[1517] I've actually been thinking about that.

[1518] Well, see, I thought you would relate.

[1519] That's why I brought it up.

[1520] Well, I can relate to you.

[1521] in wanting to be super hyper -connected to somebody.

[1522] Yes, yes.

[1523] Who maybe once were.

[1524] Yeah, okay.

[1525] I also have been thinking about the shoving.

[1526] Oh, tell me more.

[1527] This is great.

[1528] You know what I know right now is like, what you were thinking was pretty negative.

[1529] And now you're trying to like think, oh, he's going to be offended by that.

[1530] It's not negative.

[1531] I just don't know if this is the arena to talk about it.

[1532] Oh, okay.

[1533] I'll let you decide.

[1534] I guess I'll try it When you say you want me to get shoved So you can protect I actually even though sometimes I'm like No I actually like that Oh okay Like I like that you feel like you want to be Protective of me Right But like I'm not gonna get shoved You know like it's not going to Okay so maybe one day I'll get shut Yeah we don't know We don't know but I do think sometimes there are places.

[1535] Oh, I know where you're going.

[1536] That you think I should be defending you?

[1537] You could defend me and I don't feel it.

[1538] Sometimes I feel not protected.

[1539] Oh, okay.

[1540] Well, it would have to be in an arena that I deemed or thought or evaluated that you needed no protection.

[1541] I know.

[1542] And I guess that's sort of the thing is like for you, it's all about like the physical, the shoving.

[1543] And I'm like, I don't really care.

[1544] That's not really the kind of protection I need.

[1545] I've confronted my own children when they're talking about there's your boyfriend in the Olympics.

[1546] Like disagree.

[1547] That's a place that I need to protect you.

[1548] Sure.

[1549] Because that's a pretty overwhelming thing you've experienced your whole life.

[1550] And you're not going to pull my kids aside and say, like, don't do that.

[1551] No, but I also don't need protection from your wonderful kids who I love.

[1552] Like, I understand that was a moment where it was like, oh, oh, boy.

[1553] Like, I think it was more you could see a whole problem.

[1554] picture there because of our history.

[1555] I felt bad for you.

[1556] Yeah, but I didn't like the position you were in.

[1557] Yes.

[1558] And I had to address it, make sure my kids never put you in that position again.

[1559] Right, which was nice.

[1560] But I'm saying that's non -physical, but that's like an area where I decide, like, if ever I'm hearing someone be vaguely racist or whatever, I will always interject and say, you know, shut the fuck up or why did you just say that or whatever the thing is.

[1561] Yeah.

[1562] Yeah, that's true.

[1563] Yeah.

[1564] Yeah.

[1565] Was there a, there's a specific example?

[1566] No, I mean, I guess I just don't feel in general protected right now.

[1567] In life?

[1568] Yeah.

[1569] Although Jess just protected you with the credit card thing.

[1570] No, from the credit card scenario.

[1571] Yeah, he did.

[1572] It was really nice.

[1573] Yeah.

[1574] Okay, Ashley Olson, I love her.

[1575] Sam, Ashley Olson.

[1576] I want to be her.

[1577] Okay, I thought maybe Rami Malick was short for Romulus number because her dad's name is Romulus.

[1578] Great name.

[1579] And I thought, oh, maybe that's what Rami Malik is short for, but it's not.

[1580] I like it.

[1581] Also, you know, it's a city in Michigan, Romulus, Michigan.

[1582] I think it's a native word.

[1583] I think it's Greek.

[1584] Oh, you think it's Greek?

[1585] A lot of Greek stuff in Michigan, right?

[1586] There is.

[1587] Yeah, we've got a big, well, we had, I don't know where it's at now, but we have a Greek town.

[1588] It's the only town we have.

[1589] We don't have like a little Italy or a Chinatown.

[1590] We have good Greek food there.

[1591] Really good Greek food.

[1592] What's that place called that we went to?

[1593] August.

[1594] No one would really consider it.

[1595] That's like the Greek McDonald's, which is why I like it.

[1596] I liked it.

[1597] Olga, if you're listening.

[1598] Olga's after Olga, a woman.

[1599] Okay.

[1600] Who owned them all.

[1601] So it's not a chain?

[1602] It's a chain, yeah.

[1603] And Olga, I love you.

[1604] And you're my favorite Greek food.

[1605] Let me be clear.

[1606] But if you're Greek and you're listening and I'm saying Olga's is great, you're like, what the fuck are you talking about?

[1607] There's franchises and get your Euro made in five seconds.

[1608] That's not what we do.

[1609] So, you know, I'm trying to straddle.

[1610] I get it.

[1611] I'm picking Olga's over any Greek offerings personally.

[1612] There was some sort of dipper we got.

[1613] Oh, yeah, snackers.

[1614] Snackers.

[1615] And they've got this kind of cheese butter spread, which is incredible.

[1616] They also have pizza snackers.

[1617] I love anything that's pizza flavor.

[1618] They also have bottomless Greek salad there, which, you know me. Anything bottomless, I'm in.

[1619] Also, if you ever find yourself at August, you can make everything triple cheese.

[1620] Now, triple cheese is its own Euro.

[1621] Tree cheese Euro, beautiful.

[1622] The Euros there are rather the bread that the Euro's made with.

[1623] Very sweet.

[1624] The pita is very sweet, very damp, very pasty.

[1625] It's nice.

[1626] You can get just a triple cheese with some onion and some, some, of the yogurt sauce that comes on there.

[1627] But gang, you can make everything triple cheese.

[1628] So you can have the original Oga, say triple cheese, and now you're getting two for one.

[1629] Great hack.

[1630] I will eat too much when I'm there, as I probably did in front of you.

[1631] Did I?

[1632] I like to get like, I can never pick and I'm never there.

[1633] And there's three sandwiches I love, so I always get all three.

[1634] And I tell myself I'm going to eat like a half or a third of each of them.

[1635] And then when I leave, I realize I've eaten all of them and a couple bottomless sales.

[1636] Yeah, and a lot of snackers.

[1637] Okay, she said, I think, I were around it a couple times.

[1638] We were talking about cruises and then also train rides.

[1639] And she said she wanted to do the blue note.

[1640] Oh.

[1641] And unless I'm misunderstanding what she's saying.

[1642] Right.

[1643] And there is a blue note cruise.

[1644] Down the Mississippi?

[1645] Well, it's a jazz cruise.

[1646] Well, right.

[1647] So maybe.

[1648] Yeah.

[1649] Do you know blue note?

[1650] Blue Note at C?

[1651] No, what?

[1652] Do you know what a blue note is?

[1653] A jazz thing?

[1654] It's a jazz thing.

[1655] And there was the best label probably ever of jazz was Blue Note.

[1656] And a blue note, I believe, is like a half note that was really popular in field hymns and singing.

[1657] That got incorporated into jazz.

[1658] Oh, my gosh.

[1659] Yeah.

[1660] Yeah.

[1661] Yeah, well, there is a blue note at C. It's a top jazz perform live on seven -day cruise.

[1662] Oh.

[1663] So maybe that's what she was talking about.

[1664] Let's see, itinerary in ports.

[1665] I only know all this.

[1666] Let me see.

[1667] I only know this.

[1668] I took a jazz history class in 1995 in Santa Barbara.

[1669] And jazz mostly started in St. Louis, certain kind of jazz.

[1670] And it made its way down the Mississippi to Norlands.

[1671] And so that whole thoroughfare.

[1672] And the music changed as it got down there.

[1673] So it makes sense that this cruise would be on the Mississippi.

[1674] But it's not.

[1675] Fort Lauderd.

[1676] Am I talking out of my ass, Rob?

[1677] I don't think so.

[1678] Okay.

[1679] There's different ports.

[1680] There's Fort Lauderdale, St. Martin, St. Thomas.

[1681] It's a Caribbean cruise.

[1682] That's what it seems like.

[1683] Ding, ding, ding.

[1684] To previous fact checks.

[1685] Could stop in St. Kitts.

[1686] Okay, so.

[1687] All right.

[1688] That's weird.

[1689] I doubt that's what she wants to do, to be honest.

[1690] I know.

[1691] What does it seem like?

[1692] I know.

[1693] That's why I'm confused.

[1694] And also I kind of think she was talking about a train ride.

[1695] Yeah.

[1696] But then I looked into Blue Note train rides and, And she must not be saying blue note.

[1697] And I misunderstood.

[1698] Okay.

[1699] And then, well, on this topic, I said, don't you get sick on trains.

[1700] And you said no. Yeah, they just vibrate.

[1701] They don't, they never swerve.

[1702] They have to take very gentle turns.

[1703] So there's just some vibrations, which can be stimulating.

[1704] Some say you still can.

[1705] Well, people get, yeah, people get motion sick watching a movie.

[1706] Yeah.

[1707] Okay.

[1708] But then there's this Forbes article that says you can try.

[1709] your brain not to get motion sick.

[1710] I know you have a hack for this as well.

[1711] Would you like to give yours?

[1712] Well, I think I do.

[1713] Well, I think it helps.

[1714] Okay, well, I learned the hard way in the sand dunes.

[1715] The difference between people getting sick in the sandcar and not as if they're looking at the dunes out the window to the right or even looking dead ahead and they're not looking at the actual trail we're on.

[1716] Yeah.

[1717] Because the movement comes out of nowhere from them.

[1718] They can't figure out what path we're on and all of a sudden we're just in a bowl.

[1719] But if you know it's coming, your brain adjusts.

[1720] I think that's really right.

[1721] And then even more, I then, data point number two is the Tesla.

[1722] Yep.

[1723] The kids get super sick in it.

[1724] And I think it's because they feel acceleration without their brain having heard the audio to warn them accelerations coming.

[1725] Calvin gets sick in cars that are not Teslas.

[1726] Well, a lot of people get regular motion sick.

[1727] You know, you're hearing Rob's like, he was a Mac guy.

[1728] Now he's a Tesla guy.

[1729] This is propaganda.

[1730] They put up four times in the car, and he loves going fast in the Tesla.

[1731] Okay.

[1732] It doesn't get sick.

[1733] Rob, most people, I get so sick in a Tesla.

[1734] It is not for me, Elon.

[1735] Again, the Porsche take hand, the cool thing about that is they put this fake noise in there.

[1736] So you hear acceleration before you experience it, and that didn't happen when I had that car for a couple weeks.

[1737] But I don't ever, I don't get sick in Kristen's electric car.

[1738] Hers makes more noise.

[1739] Okay.

[1740] Hers is not as bad.

[1741] Huh.

[1742] It's also not as fast.

[1743] So it's not like you get that crazy acceleration sensation.

[1744] Yeah.

[1745] Oh, acceleration sensation.

[1746] Hmm.

[1747] A recent, although I don't know when this was, but study from Britain's University of Warwick suggests that we can train our brains to be far less susceptible to motion sickness with the help of simple visiospacial exercises.

[1748] Oh.

[1749] Visiospacial ability refers to the capacity to identify visual and spatial relationships among audiences.

[1750] objects.

[1751] We rely on visiospace, I don't know if I'm saying that right, visiospacial function for all kinds of activities throughout our day.

[1752] Every time we reach for an object, do a jigsaw puzzle, hit a baseball with a bat, or gauge the empty space between two cars and a parking lot.

[1753] One in three people are susceptible to motion sickness.

[1754] With the University of Deanne Warwick.

[1755] With the University of Warwick, researchers predict that that number will rise as self -driving cars become prevalent.

[1756] Sure.

[1757] It is expected that due to potential designs, and use cases, self -driving cars will increase motion sickness, onset, likelihood, and severity for many car travelers.

[1758] This research develops a novel visiospacial training tool and explores the effect of visospatial training on motion signals.

[1759] Okay.

[1760] The study included 42 test subjects, both male and female.

[1761] To get a baseline, participants were taken for virtual car rides in a 3D simulator and actual rides.

[1762] I know that sounds horrible.

[1763] I want to puke already.

[1764] And actual rides on an on -road vehicle.

[1765] During the rides, the participants rated their degree of motion sickness.

[1766] For the next two weeks, the group was split in two.

[1767] Half of the participants did nothing.

[1768] The second group spent 15 minutes per day doing pen and paper visuosatial training exercises.

[1769] Oh, my Lord.

[1770] These training exercises included paper folding reasoning tasks, identifying embedded images within drawings.

[1771] Oh, magic eye.

[1772] Yeah.

[1773] I'm horrible at that.

[1774] Interesting.

[1775] And mental rotation tasks where the participant compares 3D objects often rotated in some axis and tries to find those that match.

[1776] I would love this exercise.

[1777] At the end of the two weeks, the study participants were taken for rides again.

[1778] While there was little change in the control group, those in the brain trained group reported 51 % less motion sickness in the simulator and 58 % less motion sickness on the road in real life situations.

[1779] That's cool.

[1780] Yeah.

[1781] All right.

[1782] Well, think about it this way.

[1783] I've never in my life, I've been around people getting motion sick, you know, I don't know, a thousand times in 47 years.

[1784] I've never heard the driver of anything getting most.

[1785] Since sicknessness, because they know what's coming.

[1786] Same.

[1787] It's always like sit in the front and then it'll be less.

[1788] Hold the steering wheel.

[1789] Put your foot on the gas.

[1790] That's right.

[1791] That's right.

[1792] Yeah, so that's a good hack, though.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] You just got to get your hands on all these training exercises.

[1795] Okay, so real quick, we touched on the house prizes in Atlanta because she shot Ozark there.

[1796] Mm -hmm.

[1797] I got some intel from my mom.

[1798] Oh, great.

[1799] Okay.

[1800] Okay, so my parents bought their house in 1997 for $162 ,000.

[1801] 97?

[1802] Uh -huh.

[1803] Okay, 25 years ago.

[1804] Mm -hmm.

[1805] For 162.

[1806] 162.

[1807] 162.

[1808] And today, according to Zillow, yeah, it's worth $5 .25.

[1809] Oh, baby.

[1810] Isn't that crazy?

[1811] Yeah, that's 3X.

[1812] And it majorly jumped within, like, this past year.

[1813] Right.

[1814] Majorly.

[1815] than 3x.

[1816] Oh, my God.

[1817] You should buy it out from under them.

[1818] Our friends, Angela, who I love in Austin, they're in the same situation.

[1819] Like, they bought this house and it's, I think it's five -xed.

[1820] And they're like, you know, like, we want to be able to capitalize on this, but we want to stay in Austin.

[1821] So what's the, you know, what can you do?

[1822] I'm like, well, I guess you got to go to like a little more up -and -coming area.

[1823] By the way, East Austin, where we were getting all those fun meals.

[1824] Yeah.

[1825] Is it cheaper there?

[1826] It's cheaper there.

[1827] Yeah.

[1828] Really?

[1829] Yeah.

[1830] Because it is up coming oh baby hang on tight that is a rocket ship east austin well we talked about this in today's episodes i don't we don't need to talk about it again what uh the dogs oh yeah you wanted to clear your your good name yeah yeah maybe you'll be in a trial some point i know well that's the i don't want to be the face of people who don't like dogs that's not what i'm trying to do at all um i'm just allowed to have that opinion of course you are um let's try to make an argument for them i know the argument what is the argument they i mean they're defenseless animals and i'm being mean about you're not being mean to not like something isn't the same as disliking something well i think david and i said they weren't smart they're not i mean they are relative to other mammals but exactly yeah they can't do trig they don't read compared to humans They're real dumb.

[1831] That's right.

[1832] Compared to orangutans, they're really dumb.

[1833] Because, you know, some people were like, service dogs are so smart.

[1834] And I'm like, they're smarter.

[1835] Mm -hmm, yeah.

[1836] And look, like when we had Ed Yong on, of course, I was like, oh, my God.

[1837] Some of them can smell cancer.

[1838] Like, that's exciting.

[1839] But you know what else can detect cancer technology that humans have made and with more accuracy.

[1840] We're the apex thinkers for sure.

[1841] I think we agree on that.

[1842] And I think it's great.

[1843] Dogs are great.

[1844] I want to put it up.

[1845] I love dogs.

[1846] I want to like, let's hold on though.

[1847] I'm going to try to be them.

[1848] Okay.

[1849] So I love you, let's say.

[1850] I want to be friends with you.

[1851] I think we would be great friends.

[1852] I love my dog.

[1853] And I always have my dog everywhere with me. And you don't like dogs.

[1854] And so this is a thing that's between us now.

[1855] It's preventing us from being best friends because I love dogs.

[1856] And they're so nice.

[1857] And so we're just never going to share that.

[1858] In fact, it's probably going to be a hurdle.

[1859] You're not going to want to come to my house.

[1860] And if I come to your house, I can only be there for four hours because I go home and let the dog out.

[1861] Like, I think maybe you just, without anyone consciously thinking all those thoughts, they think, oh, my God, I can't accept that she doesn't like dogs because it'd be this huge barrier for us.

[1862] And so when they're trying to get you to like dogs, they're really saying, I want to be friends with you.

[1863] Okay, that's nice.

[1864] And also, if you can only be friends with someone who thinks exactly.

[1865] like you, then we're probably not going to be friends anyway.

[1866] Well, but it's more than just think like you.

[1867] It's that there's an actual person involved, a dog in this case.

[1868] Yeah, please don't call the person.

[1869] I know, but if you hate kids, you declare, I hate being around kids, and I have kids.

[1870] I'm like, oh, well, that would be a problem.

[1871] Yeah.

[1872] Should do a spinoff ratio where you get a dog for two months.

[1873] Oh, wow.

[1874] No, because then I would have to give it up or something.

[1875] Well, you can adopt, you can do like the temporary Well, here's the thing I also want to make clear last week or two weeks ago or something, Molly.

[1876] And also, another thing to make clear, all of my friends have dogs and multiple dogs.

[1877] So it's not like that really is true.

[1878] Yeah.

[1879] It's not affected any of these friendships.

[1880] I endure the dogs.

[1881] I can get more personal.

[1882] I'll take some hate mail.

[1883] So we've had kind of a long break from the mass pod hangout.

[1884] And so we had enough people over a couple weeks ago that I was like, I don't know if I can go back to this.

[1885] I just had a blanket feeling of I don't know if I can go back to this.

[1886] And it was actually the next day that I realized, oh, it had nothing to do with the people.

[1887] There were too many fucking dogs at the house.

[1888] And two dogs got in a fight and then one's not supposed to be inside.

[1889] One can be outside.

[1890] And the kids and this dog's got to be in a cage.

[1891] and I realize I want all the people to come over but I can't have all the dogs anymore and so I actually had to say that this weekend like I said to Eric I'm like please come over let's go swim and let's have fun I said but I can't I can't I don't think I can do the dogs and I felt terrible about that because I know what a big deal it is friends with big dogs are annoying though we have friends that have to bring their big dogs and by the way their big dogs the nicest of all the dogs pee pee pee pee pee who got a carcass if everyone remembers.

[1892] But their little dog who's so cute and sweet.

[1893] Other dogs fuck with her because she's tiny.

[1894] And then she gives them hell.

[1895] It's funny.

[1896] She's tough.

[1897] But regardless, it's too, it's a big chaotic that's barking and this one's running around.

[1898] And it's just like, there's already too many kids running around for me. I'm on the verge of too many kids.

[1899] You add in six, seven dogs.

[1900] It's a big to do when there's a dog that has to come with them.

[1901] Yeah.

[1902] Yeah.

[1903] So I don't know what that's going to do to my standing or a group, but I'm kind of saying I don't want a bunch of dogs over anymore.

[1904] And that's going to be an issue.

[1905] I understand because it's disruptive in a way that if people who don't have that, they don't understand.

[1906] It doesn't bother them.

[1907] You know, that's the truth.

[1908] No, it doesn't.

[1909] It does not.

[1910] Kristen and Molly could care less if those dogs are fighting or whatever.

[1911] They don't care, which is great.

[1912] Like, their equilibrium is different.

[1913] Yeah, I wish I was that calm.

[1914] Same, but I'm not.

[1915] To me, there's too many variables.

[1916] I can't control any of this.

[1917] Yeah.

[1918] You also leave your dog at home.

[1919] Leave a dog and we'd never bring it places.

[1920] Well, that's another polarizing, yeah.

[1921] But no, these are all things that we said on the show that then.

[1922] Backfire.

[1923] Yes, and it's, it's my opinion.

[1924] Also, some people are, there's a lot of people that listen.

[1925] Some of them are cuckoo.

[1926] So, like, me and Meta World Peace, Talking about how we'd protect ourselves from a cougar.

[1927] Right.

[1928] Handful people were like, stop talking about murdering beautiful cats.

[1929] It's like, hold on, I'm not hunting beautiful cats.

[1930] Yeah.

[1931] I'm saying if I get attacked by one, I'd prefer to be the one that lives.

[1932] Yes.

[1933] How am I going to handle this situation?

[1934] Yeah.

[1935] I live across the street from a very large cat.

[1936] Yeah.

[1937] It could happen.

[1938] Yeah.

[1939] Okay.

[1940] Did you see he commented on one of your posts recently about the cougar being loose?

[1941] Yes.

[1942] Oh, my God.

[1943] Yeah.

[1944] That's not funny.

[1945] was a call to arms it was yeah yeah be on the lookout he's a cat whistle um anyway but yeah so but it it hurt my feelings there we go there's some vulnerability it hurt my feelings and um and you probably thought that this love is conditional you'll only like me if i like these dogs well yeah no it did feel like oh my god like i lost everyone yes exactly i feel that way often i think for me, I mean, like for everyone, I guess, because everyone wants acceptance.

[1946] But for me, like when we, so we just had someone on to talk about white power.

[1947] Mm -hmm.

[1948] Easter egg coming up, a great episode.

[1949] I was thinking a lot in that episode about why I felt something deeper than I just wanted to be liked because I was different.

[1950] It was like, I wanted to be liked because if I wasn't, I could be hurt.

[1951] It was actually not just survival socially.

[1952] It was like a deeper survival.

[1953] Right.

[1954] It's dangerous to be the other.

[1955] Like on a primitive level, you know that.

[1956] Yeah.

[1957] And when you said, you mentioned something about skin, or we talked all about skinheads.

[1958] And I hadn't thought about that word in so many years.

[1959] And as soon as I came up, I was like, oh my God, I used to be so scared of them.

[1960] Right.

[1961] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1962] And like, what if I was out at the grocery store and there was a skin hit there who looked over and saw this brown person.

[1963] They hated me. Especially one that's defensals.

[1964] That's their favorite kind of person to attack.

[1965] So I just had this remembering of like, oh, yeah, that's not just like I wanted French, you know, I wanted acceptance for my peers.

[1966] It was like, for my life, I need to be liked.

[1967] Yeah.

[1968] And then today, that this morning, I was like, oh my God, no one likes me anymore.

[1969] Yes.

[1970] And it felt like.

[1971] triggers that other survival fear, yeah.

[1972] So anyway, just so we're clear, the summation of this is that whoever said they're mad that you don't like dogs is a racist skinhead, yes.

[1973] That's not what I said.

[1974] That is not what I said at all.

[1975] Anyway.

[1976] I'm sensitive too, Monica.

[1977] I just want to tell you.

[1978] I know that.

[1979] Yeah.

[1980] What do you mean?

[1981] I'm bonding with you.

[1982] I'm letting you know you shouldn't feel bad.

[1983] I'm sensitive too.

[1984] I read things and they bother me. Yeah.

[1985] It's bothersome.

[1986] Makes me sad.

[1987] Also, Molly posted something a couple weeks ago about a dog that was going to get killed that day.

[1988] Oh, boy.

[1989] I know.

[1990] If it didn't get fostered or adopted.

[1991] It's like a petition to the governor before they electrocutes home.

[1992] And, of course, I looked at this and I was like, oh.

[1993] Now you feel bad.

[1994] So then I texted her.

[1995] Uh -oh.

[1996] And I was like, what's happening with the dog?

[1997] Yeah.

[1998] And she said it got fostered.

[1999] But I was going to do it.

[2000] Oh, you were.

[2001] Just foster.

[2002] After all that.

[2003] Well, because, No, because I don't, this is my point.

[2004] I don't want them to be killed.

[2005] I'm not evil.

[2006] I just have opinions on the way people handle dogs.

[2007] Yeah.

[2008] Anyway, I didn't have to.

[2009] Thank God.

[2010] Not yet.

[2011] I know.

[2012] Now I'm going to get so many.

[2013] You should just unfollow Molly.

[2014] It's too stressful.

[2015] It'd be easier to just unfollow.

[2016] Just start ghosting her.

[2017] No. So that's that.

[2018] Do you have any updates?

[2019] Oh, okay.

[2020] In a way that's the reverse of sensitive.

[2021] I looked at the comments for Danny and there were so many nice comments about Lincoln and Delta.

[2022] That's nice.

[2023] And I felt this weird feeling I can't feel for myself.

[2024] But of course, the fact that people liked my little ones who I love so much made me feel so happy.

[2025] That's good.

[2026] Yeah.

[2027] So it's the opposite of the dog thing.

[2028] But I just was like, oh, yeah, my little buddies.

[2029] Other people like my little buddies.

[2030] And then it led to more singing, of course, of that song.

[2031] She's, since you've heard it, I've heard it in the hundreds of times.

[2032] Oh, I'm sure.

[2033] I do, do, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, do la. She's a good one.

[2034] All right, I love you.

[2035] Love you.

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