Consequences for Lying & Bad Behavior: A Radically Different Approach

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[16] Hey, everyone.

[17] This is Kirk Martin, founder of Celebrate Calm.

[18] And I'm excited to come to you today.

[19] I wanted to talk about lying.

[20] And even if your child doesn't lie, there are a lot of other good principles and strategies we're going to talk about.

[21] But I really want to hammer in on the line because we were out on the road this last week, and I heard that continually.

[22] And it's one of the reasons we love to travel.

[23] And so I encourage you to come out to our live events.

[24] We are going to be in next four weeks.

[25] We're in Wyoming, Green Bay, Wisconsin.

[26] Nashville.

[27] We are in New Jersey, Northern Virginia, Kansas, Texas, Birmingham, Alabama, and who knows where else.

[28] And by the way, if you happen to be in Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Kansas, or Texas, email us because we have a couple free nights during these trips where we'd love to be able to speak at your school or church, or I noticed one week coming up, we are going to be speaking at an Islamic school, a Jewish synagogue, Christian school, public school, and a foster care organization, all in the same week.

[29] So wherever there are parents, we want to be there to help and teachers.

[30] So just reach out to my son.

[31] His name's Casey.

[32] C -A -S -E -Y at celebratecom .com 506, 1871.

[33] But email Casey.

[34] If you've heard our podcast, you know he's my son that was the very difficult, challenging one.

[35] Who's the inspiration for everything that we do, honestly?

[36] But if you get to interact with him, you will see he is an amazing young man. And he will always help you be very courteous.

[37] But he can help you in scheduling events.

[38] By the way, we just added two new parent boot camps.

[39] We found time in our schedule.

[40] We're doing another one in Dallas, October 13th on a Saturday, and also we just added Saturday, November 10th outside of Washington, D .C. And there's the last ones we can fit in this year.

[41] But I love those boot camps because I'm with you all day long and we get to dive into deep, deep stuff that you can't just tease out through an email, right?

[42] That's very challenging.

[43] I know a lot of you have been to therapists and counselors and stuff hasn't worked because they just tell you like, be firm and consistent and follow through your consequences and you've done all that stuff.

[44] And here's the problem.

[45] Everybody wants to tell you to do rational things thinking that you're going to have a rational result, but you're not because most of these things that are happening are irrational.

[46] Let's take lying, for example.

[47] Well, pretty easy, right?

[48] Just tell them, if you keep lying, I'm going to wash your mouth out with soap, I'm going to take away all your stuff.

[49] And it doesn't change anything because we have to get to the root of the lying.

[50] Whenever I hear that a child's lying, my first question is, was he adopted because a lot of the kids who were adopted and who were kind of left alone for a period of time often grow up and they will lie, steal, they will hoard things because they just didn't have the security and attachment as little kids.

[51] But anyway, even if they weren't adopted, I want to know what the root of it is.

[52] Sometimes it's a shame impulse.

[53] Kids are just ashamed of their behavior because they know what they're doing is wrong, but they have impulse control issues and all kinds of other maybe emotional issues.

[54] And so they end up lying and making up stories.

[55] And so they're ashamed of getting caught.

[56] And so they just make up lies.

[57] So I was talking to these really good parents who are doing a phone consultation.

[58] And they're telling him about their son and see if this resonates with you.

[59] He lies, makes excuses.

[60] He won't take responsibility for anything.

[61] Won't take advice from anybody.

[62] And there's always a story.

[63] There's always a story to something.

[64] There's always a reason that something happened.

[65] And, of course, the dad, like I used to do, wanted to just go with like, well, consequences have to be immediate and harsh, and we'll nip this in the bud.

[66] I was like, dude, it's been going on for 17 years.

[67] If harsh consequences are going to work, probably would have happened before now.

[68] And so we have to go through a few steps.

[69] So this is for all behavior, by the way.

[70] It's not just lying, but I'd encourage you with a few steps that I would take.

[71] One, we've got to get to the root of it.

[72] And the only way to get to the root of it is, honestly, to rebuild your relationship with your child.

[73] If you're listening to this podcast, it's because you have a challenging child, and I guarantee you you've been, you've had power struggles over everything.

[74] The relationship can get strained at times because of misbehavior, but you have to get to the root of it.

[75] And when they were talking about their son, they were saying all these things of like, okay, like he's obstinate, but he can be charming with other people.

[76] And you know what popped in my head?

[77] We're dealing with an insecure kid who's not confident, right?

[78] So he's got to make up stories, but then he learns how to kind of charm other people.

[79] He digs in so he doesn't have to do things because he's not confident in his ability to do it.

[80] So I say this a lot, but a lot of times people say like, well, my child's just really defiant.

[81] And his outward behavior may be, and probably is.

[82] But if I had to describe the child, I'd say you're probably dealing with a frustrated, overwhelmed child who, when he gets frustrated and overwhelmed, digs in and becomes defiant.

[83] Because if you just try to treat the outward behavior and say, you're not going to be defiant anymore or else, nothing will change.

[84] You're just putting a band -aid on it.

[85] And to be quite honest, that's what our parents, a lot of them, my dad, with his fear and intimidation, my way or the highway approach, was doing it to what I did when I was a young dad as well with my son.

[86] But you have to get to the root of it.

[87] And so lying is almost never the real issue.

[88] There's almost always something that's going on underneath the surface that leads kids to lie.

[89] And I want to get that.

[90] But if your relationship is strained, all you over say is like, what are you lying for?

[91] Don't you know that lying is wrong?

[92] And you'll further increase the shame and guarantee that the child will just get even better at lying and hiding things from you.

[93] So I want you to rebuild the relationship.

[94] We've been through that in a lot of different ways, but you've got to release your child from your own inappropriate.

[95] expectations, release yourself from your own expectations of, you know, why is my child like this?

[96] What did I do wrong?

[97] Maybe there's nothing you did wrong.

[98] You're just dealing with a child who's struggling and so you need to help him.

[99] And I want you to connect with your child.

[100] We always say before you get compliance, you have to have connection.

[101] Walking into a room and barking orders never leads to compliance or building trust.

[102] You don't like it when your boss does it to you, so don't do it to your kids, right?

[103] So find a way to connect.

[104] In this case, this kid actually plays guitar and piano, and he likes writing rap songs.

[105] And his mom said, he actually writes really deep lyrics.

[106] Now, am I a big fan of rap music?

[107] No. But if it were my son, I'd go when times were tense and I'd say, hey, go grab your guitar.

[108] I want to hear you play, because I like when you play, I like your lyrics.

[109] It's really interesting.

[110] You've got a gift there.

[111] And by the way, a lot of research studies show bonding over music is a fantastic way to bond with your kids, you're just going to have to get over the fact that you're old and you like a different kind of music and their music stinks.

[112] And that's what your dad said about your music and they have since the beginning of time.

[113] So just, you know, grow up and deal with it.

[114] So that didn't sound really dismissive, did it?

[115] But that's what I mean.

[116] You have to grow up with some of these things and just deal with it, right?

[117] You didn't become a parent as like, right?

[118] When I became a dad, I thought, oh, this is great, right?

[119] I'm a dad.

[120] Like, I'm a responsible citizen.

[121] I'm like good at my job.

[122] So I'm just going to tell my son what to do and be firm and consistent.

[123] He's going to do it and we're going to have an awesome family life.

[124] It doesn't work that way.

[125] Life is filled with unknowns and relationships are supposed to be messy.

[126] So if you're involved in relationships that are messy, welcome to life.

[127] They're supposed to be messy.

[128] You know why?

[129] Because relationships are supposed to cause you to grow up and become mature and they're supposed to change you.

[130] That's what happens when you live together with other people.

[131] They're irritating and you're irritating and you either have to become a victim and blame everybody else because, you know, if my son would just learn to behave or if my spouse would just do X, everything would be okay.

[132] Well, good.

[133] Now you've just become a victim and your family has complete power over you and nothing is ever going to change because they're the villain, they're the bad one and you're just the, you know, the victim who doesn't have any saying this.

[134] No, relationships all involve two people and you've got to own your part.

[135] I want to write a book one day that just says own your S -H -I -T.

[136] That's what I want to call it.

[137] Own your, you know why?

[138] Because nobody does it.

[139] And it's really refreshing.

[140] If you ever actually hear a politician actually own their own stuff, please email me and let me know because none of them do it on either side.

[141] It's always the other side's fault.

[142] And every problem comes down, it's two people.

[143] So anyway, you've got to own your stuff.

[144] Right.

[145] And so connect with them.

[146] But here's what I want to get to.

[147] And this is what I love about our approach and why I like telling people, you've got to, look, you've got to buy our stuff.

[148] I didn't mean for it to sound like that.

[149] But you do.

[150] You have to get our stuff.

[151] You have to listen.

[152] Look, listen to.

[153] I'll think about this today.

[154] Listen to the free podcast.

[155] They're free.

[156] You listen to a ton of them.

[157] You get so much.

[158] We have a free newsletter.

[159] You can sign up.

[160] We have free Facebook posts.

[161] I do a ton of.

[162] of stuff free and you can do that but you know and I'm being serious with this the the times we've seen the greatest change in people is when they've made an investment something happens psychologically something happens when people say you know what I'm humbling myself everything we has tried is not worked we've been to all these therapists and spent thousand dollars nothing's worked this guy makes sense we're going to take the fruit of our labor we've worked hard for this money we are on a tight budget.

[163] We watch our money.

[164] We're good stewards of it, but we are going to take this and we are going to invest this and we are going to buy these CDs or these downloads.

[165] And because we've invested, we're now going to listen and we're going to take it seriously and we're going to be methodical and conscientious about this and we're going to take steps to change ourselves.

[166] There's something very powerful about that.

[167] And again, I'm just very upfront with this.

[168] One day, even if I am worth millions of dollars, I will still charge people a premium and still charge them for our stuff because it's not for me. And I know that sounds manipulative, but I'm being honest with that.

[169] It's not for me. The reason I do that is because I know in my own life, when I have to reach into my pocket and pull that out, there's a choice that happens there.

[170] I'm making a choice that I am making this a priority because I'm a frugal person.

[171] When I dip into my wallet, I'm doing it because it's something that's important to me. And so I believe that principle to be true in life.

[172] And I always say this is a caveat.

[173] If you're really struggling with stuff and you need help, just ask us for help.

[174] We're a family.

[175] We're not some huge corporation.

[176] We're a family and my son will help you so you can get it.

[177] But I just want people to invest.

[178] So here's the cool thing that we got to with this family.

[179] For 17 years, this has been their mindset.

[180] We cannot trust our son.

[181] They thought it was all about them being able to trust him.

[182] And what I like to do with parents and teachers even is to flip it around 180 degrees and say, you know what I think part of the root of this is?

[183] For 17 years, he hasn't been able to trust you.

[184] And here's what I mean by it.

[185] I asked them and said, would you consider a person?

[186] apologizing to your son and saying, son, I think we need to apologize to you because you haven't felt safe opening up to us and telling us the truth, partly because you haven't been able to trust how we would react to you.

[187] Because every time you tell us something, we either overreact, we bark consequences, we lecture you, we belittle you, We sit and shake our head at you, right?

[188] And that's awfully, it's kind of a demeaning thing.

[189] And so what you have learned, son, is that when you need to tell us something important, you can't really trust our response, and we want to own that.

[190] So from now on, whenever you tell us something difficult, I promise you, we are going to listen to you.

[191] We will ask questions for clarification, but we will not lecture you.

[192] because we believe that you are capable of owning your choices.

[193] We will give you wisdom.

[194] We will give you insight, but we will trust you to take that and begin to make your own changes.

[195] We are going to change ourselves first because we want you to be able to trust us.

[196] Is that cool or what?

[197] I dare you this weekend to have that conversation with your kids and say and ask those kind of questions.

[198] Now, quick caveat.

[199] It doesn't mean that you're the issue and the reason your son lies to you or daughter is because of you.

[200] That's not what I'm saying, but I am saying that we do play a role in that and we do play a part in that.

[201] And if we take the high road and we humble ourselves, because look, as parents were always like, well, child just needs to change.

[202] He's been lying to us for 17 years.

[203] He's eroded trust and he needs to learn.

[204] Look, you've tried that approach for the last 8, 10, 12, 15, 17 years.

[205] if it were going to work, it would have worked by now.

[206] So why not try something different and flip it around and do that?

[207] Now, here's another cool thing that I wanted to share, that I shared with these parents.

[208] See, once we start building the trust and the child starts coming to us, then we can use that awesome phrase, hey, I'm curious.

[209] So you just told us what happened in that situation.

[210] I know you know that's wrong.

[211] So I'm curious, what was going on?

[212] What's driving that, right?

[213] What's underneath there?

[214] What are you struggling with?

[215] Because I want to help you.

[216] And here is something that I consider really important.

[217] See, the motive of finding out what's going on and changing his behavior, it's not for me as the parent.

[218] And that's huge because we walk around all day and our goal is we need to change that behavior.

[219] We need to have to change that behavior.

[220] And that's what leads to all those great discussions.

[221] Son, you need to come, we need to have a talk about your behavior, right?

[222] And that always works really well.

[223] It doesn't.

[224] It puts them on the defensive.

[225] And there's a sense that we carry around of, you need to explain your behavior because I don't like the way it impacts me. That's kind of how it comes across.

[226] But the mindset that I want, and what I want my child to hear in the spirit of my discipline and talking to him is, this isn't about me. I don't need you to stop lying for me. I want you to stop lying because it hurts you and I want to free you from the pain that comes from the lack of peace from that icky feeling inside that comes from having to create stories and not be a person of integrity.

[227] See, it's not so much about, you know, one day when you're older, people aren't going to be able to trust you and you're going to get fired for jobs and you're going to have a terrible life because you're not a person of integrity.

[228] Like, you know, your child already knows that.

[229] They already know about integrity.

[230] Why?

[231] Because you've modeled it for them.

[232] But see if this makes sense.

[233] What I want to get to is this.

[234] When your child tells a lie, get inside his brain and heart.

[235] Now it's weakening his character.

[236] He's doing something that's false.

[237] And that just never feels good inside.

[238] He's also having to create stories.

[239] now there's a lack of peace because now he's having to wind in and really use his brain with all these different stories, try to keep them straight so he doesn't get caught and he's walking around with a little thing in his stomach which knows eventually I'm going to get caught and then when I get caught I'm going to be in more trouble.

[240] My goal as a parent is to liberate and free my child from those different behaviors that hurt him.

[241] And I'll do a quick little thing here for my Christian friends or religious friends and it's this.

[242] I would encourage you with because in Christian homes, sometimes it's even worse because you have this mindset that God is just about, all his goal is, is to make everybody behave for him.

[243] And once everybody behaves for him, then he'll shower his love and his blessings on you because you obeyed him.

[244] And even that word carries so much with you, like children need to obey because we need to obey God.

[245] And it carries a sense of this fearful God who's up there who just is some rulemaker and, you know, his whole world is going to be shattered if somehow you don't follow his rules.

[246] And I think we've missed the whole point there.

[247] And then we raise our kids like that under this law type mentality instead of under grace and relationship.

[248] And I can't tell you how many Christian homes.

[249] And look, there are some Christian parenting speakers who do great damage.

[250] And I'm not saying they're bad people, but their teaching and mindset is evil because it ends up creating this dynamic between parents and kids where there's a me against you, I'm the authority figure, you need to bow before me. And it's all wrong because as an authority, look, I'm the authority figure in my home.

[251] I have no problem with my authority.

[252] But you know what my authority is given to me for so I can serve others, so I can lay down my life for others, because my job is to model things and to lay down my life and to be the humble servant leader.

[253] But we all like it as parents like, well, we're the authority figures.

[254] We love the sense of power.

[255] But especially in the Christian world, that's not how Jesus used his power.

[256] He's the ultimate authority figure.

[257] And what do you find him doing?

[258] Kneeling down in the dirt in front of a woman called in adultery when he should have been, what we would have been lecturing and reaming her for how awful she was and said he stooped in dirt.

[259] That's, right?

[260] When do we do that?

[261] See, we've missed that.

[262] And look, I'm not mad at you, but I get passionate because it will destroy your relationships and it will destroy the very thing you want, especially as a religious parent.

[263] You want your kids to grow up and love God.

[264] Well, guess what they've learned about God?

[265] He's an unhappy person who's never happy with my behavior because, you know what?

[266] Because that's what it seems like with you.

[267] So I just encourage you.

[268] You've got to wrestle with that in your own relationship with your God, with your in your faith, wrestle with that because I guarantee you how you view God will have a huge impact on how you parent your kids.

[269] And so let's get back to this and tie this up.

[270] The reason that I don't want my son to lie is because I want to free him from all the pain and lack of peace and inner turmoil that comes from that.

[271] That's why I want to help him.

[272] And see, once a child gets, you want to help free him from that, then you can start to make inroads.

[273] And I'll close with this.

[274] And again, if we can help you in any way, I'll close with this point, but just reach out to my son, Casey at CelebrateCallum .com.

[275] He gets all of the stuff.

[276] He will help you with our CDs.

[277] We have a special way to get everything that we own for a very low price.

[278] If you do the parent boot camp and you register early, you actually get all 12 of our programs for free as download.

[279] You can begin working on this even before boot camp.

[280] It's actually a really, really great deal.

[281] And if you want to do phone consultation, just anyway, call Casey.

[282] But here's where we kind of ended up with this family is learn to speak your kid's language.

[283] This kid actually is really into baseball.

[284] And I'm a baseball guy, so I kind of got it.

[285] So just saying, like, we need to have to talk about your behavior.

[286] You need to stop lying because if you don't, you're going to erode our trust, blah, blah, blah.

[287] make it you know make some of these things a little bit lighter in tone and the next and see you can address these things directly but watch what the parent can do the dad could do next time his son lies he can look at him and smile and say dude i know what you just did look i just caught you i do you know what you got you are on first base you are wanting to steal second base and you had this nice long lead but you took it a step further and as the pitcher i know Notice that.

[288] I turned to wield it and threw it to first, and I picked you off, my friend.

[289] I just picked you off.

[290] Because I know that was a lie.

[291] And you know what?

[292] It doesn't offend me. It doesn't throw me, right?

[293] I get it.

[294] People lie.

[295] People have lied since the beginning of time.

[296] I'm not mad at you.

[297] I'm not going to punish you for it.

[298] I'm just curious, what was that about?

[299] Because I want to help you out so you don't feel the need to lie next time, right?

[300] And you know why else?

[301] Because you know when you're playing baseball, son?

[302] And you know when you do?

[303] kind of get picked off of first base and the pitcher throws to first base and you know you can't make it back to first so you just take off running towards second but then the first baseman throws it to the shortstop and now they've got you on a run down you know that they're throwing the ball back and forth chasing you down and eventually they compress and catch you in the middle and then someone tags you out you know that feeling inside you know that bad feeling of dread of like oh man I got caught and now I'm going to be out I've just let people down that's the feeling that I want to help deliver and free you from with the lying.

[304] So I want to help you out with this, and I'm curious what's going on.

[305] And so if I can help you with that, let me know.

[306] In fact, if you want, why don't you go get a baseball glove?

[307] Why don't you get our gloves?

[308] We'll come out and play catch, and we'll talk about this, and I'll help you out.

[309] Now you become the trusted resource, the trusted leader that your child needs and wants.

[310] The other night at a workshop, there's a really great dad sitting in the front row, and he's this big tall guy with a beard, a very manly guy.

[311] and he's got three young kids under age of 10.

[312] And I remember we were talking about this kind of thing, and I looked at him, I said, I said, you know what, this is what you're after, right?

[313] It's not just all the behavior.

[314] It's not just getting your three little kids to behave and get to bed on time and all those things.

[315] What you really want is, when they're teenagers, you want them to trust you so much that they can come to you and tell you anything.

[316] And when they're struggling with teenage and middle school life, and they want to go on to social media and ask their friends, instead, their first instinct is, I have a dad, I can trust.

[317] And a young girl, I can have a dad.

[318] I have a mom who I can trust that when I come and tell them something, they're not going to freak out, they're not going to overreact and they're not going to lecture, and they're not going to shame me. I have a parent I can trust and I can tell them anything.

[319] That's the goal.

[320] That's the goal.

[321] And that's what we're after.

[322] And I will tell you, when you have that kind of relationship, the behavior issues will begin to go away.

[323] And we won't be talking about behavior issues anymore.

[324] It's a cool thing.

[325] I'd love doing this because I'm, this is so cool.

[326] Now I'm all ramped up.

[327] I want to go call my son right now and ask them how I've messed up lately.

[328] Anyway, thank you because I like to lead by doing, you know, I got to own my own.

[329] You know what.

[330] Anyway, so remember that phrase the rest of the night.

[331] Thank you for listening.

[332] If we can help you on any way, email my son, Casey at CelebrateCallum .com.

[333] Call us at 888 -506, 1871.

[334] See us out on the road.

[335] And if you're in Kansas, Oklahoma, or Wisconsin, you're a long way away from us.

[336] And so it's hard to get there, but we're going to be traveling through your area.

[337] So we have a couple dates we're open.

[338] So if you want us to come to your school, church, synagogue, whatever it is, email or call us and we'll make it happen.

[339] Then we get to meet you in person, which will be awesome.

[340] Anyway, thank you guys.