Synced: Morning After Slumber Party

[0] we have updates we have a lot i mean i feel like you have a lot to share well i have stuff to share but also you have an update because yeah last weekend i got to come see a screening of your movie you're you have been working on a documentary yes for a while and i guess you should describe it yeah so i was working on it when we're freezing our ex together and it was at the apex of the difficulty.

[1] Chaos.

[2] Yeah, the chaos and the Dark Night of the Soul, right?

[3] Part of the film where I, yeah, I get, I get, I get S -U -E -D.

[4] Can we say it?

[5] S -U -E -D.

[6] What's that?

[7] Oh, oh, oh, oh.

[8] It's early.

[9] I know.

[10] Can we have like a...

[11] No, I don't want to change the time.

[12] It's just like, I feel sometimes that I'm like, I'm still waking up.

[13] Waking up.

[14] Okay.

[15] I have this problem too, obviously, and I'm like half dead for the first, I feel like six minutes.

[16] Me too, me too.

[17] But then I do like being done at the time we're done.

[18] It's true.

[19] This is like the tale as old as time.

[20] It is.

[21] I just hope people know the vibe is like morning after slumber party.

[22] It's not like afternoon cozy vibes.

[23] It's more like morning after.

[24] What are we talking about?

[25] I like that.

[26] That's my how I can get into it.

[27] Because for some reason I feel like this podcast is like cozying up after.

[28] afternoon, like, you know, sweatpants.

[29] And I'm like, oh, no, this is like a morning.

[30] It's a morning show.

[31] It's a morning after show.

[32] Morning after.

[33] Oh, I love that.

[34] Morning after show.

[35] We can still be in sweat.

[36] We both are in sweatpants.

[37] We both are in sweatpants.

[38] comfy clothes today.

[39] So, so synced, obviously.

[40] Okay.

[41] Yeah.

[42] So, yeah, my movie.

[43] Yeah.

[44] So it starts with our egg freezing and sort of this question of, you know, should I genetically test embryos?

[45] And would I be a good parent to a child with a disability?

[46] And sort of what does it take in in 2023 in the world that we live in, and I go on this little adventure to find out, and there's a lot of twist and turns and surprising.

[47] And S -E -E -E -E -G -I -D.

[48] And thank you for coming.

[49] It was so sweet.

[50] Everyone was so happy to meet you.

[51] And they were like, she's so cute.

[52] Like, she's so beautiful.

[53] And she's so little.

[54] And I was like, I know.

[55] I did feel little that day.

[56] I think my sweatshirt or something.

[57] I don't know.

[58] But I was so happy to see it, because I've been hearing about this for so long.

[59] And it's always a privilege.

[60] to get to see something ahead of time.

[61] It's, you're still working on it.

[62] Like, you're finishing it up.

[63] So that was really exciting.

[64] Did it feel like, you know, sometimes you meet your friend's baby that, okay, this is going to come out real wrong.

[65] Well, not ugly.

[66] Well, that happens too.

[67] But there's this whole TikTok thing of, like, when you meet the baby that you told your friend to abort.

[68] You know what I?

[69] I know.

[70] And it's a joke, obviously.

[71] It's not like we're encouraging abortion left and right.

[72] But when we were freezing her ex together, I was in a really dark period.

[73] At one point, you know, I said, I think I need to stop making this.

[74] And you were like, I think you should.

[75] Like, you know, you're a wreck and you're being obviously a really good friend.

[76] And a lot of people told me that.

[77] And so did it feel like you met the baby that you told me to abort?

[78] Oh, my God.

[79] I didn't put two and two together like that, which is a great way of framing it.

[80] However, you did pause during the egg freezing because it was getting so overwhelming.

[81] It was such a, I think, smart idea for you.

[82] So, like, I can't, I have to, like, actually press pause on that thing.

[83] I can't be doing both of these things at once because they're both so taxing.

[84] Yeah.

[85] But one, you've been involved in advocating for disability rights and just being sort of a mouthpiece for abelism and disability.

[86] I feel like mouthpiece is a bad word.

[87] Oh.

[88] Is it mouthpiece like you're like a...

[89] Wait, am I wrong?

[90] What's it mean?

[91] that's bad.

[92] But I'm probably wrong.

[93] I could definitely be wrong.

[94] I should have said advocate.

[95] I feel like mouthpiece is what you say like, you're a mouthpiece for the, you know.

[96] Oh, but is it that they took the word?

[97] Those people maybe took the word and I'm taking it back.

[98] Okay, take it back.

[99] Take it back.

[100] It sounds purely like you're a voice for.

[101] Got it.

[102] Okay.

[103] I think that's more reclaim it.

[104] I think that's more what it is.

[105] Oh my God.

[106] I've heard it how you're saying as well.

[107] People will ruin words.

[108] Don't let them.

[109] Okay, we're reclaiming mouthpiece.

[110] It's like dog whistle.

[111] Dog whistle is bad.

[112] It's like when you, often like with racism is sort of the most classic example.

[113] Instead of saying the overtly racist thing, you're saying something that's like a sub -tweet.

[114] That's like a, you know, well, you know, some people, you know, are really can't be trusted or really lazy, right?

[115] You're sort of saying the racist thing without and then being able to be like, I didn't say black people are lazy.

[116] I just said, you know.

[117] It's like a way to not be overt.

[118] So the dog whistle analogy is like you're calling out silently to your people.

[119] Kind of.

[120] Or using like a stereotype again, like referencing something in our culture that everyone knows what that means and what that implicates.

[121] Without saying it's straight up or whatever.

[122] Oh, and you're saying they took the word dog whistle, which is an actual thing.

[123] Oh, dog whistles are from the dog whistler's?

[124] Okay.

[125] Well, like someone wants a whistle for dog.

[126] Isn't also it a thing?

[127] It's like a actual thing.

[128] Yeah, there's a whistle for dogs.

[129] Yeah, for them to come running.

[130] Come running.

[131] But it's being used for this other thing.

[132] Yeah, I wonder how dogs feel about it.

[133] I hate it for them.

[134] It sucks.

[135] Okay.

[136] So you have been really wonderfully advocating for a long time.

[137] And you're so knowledgeable on all things, ableism.

[138] This movie is about that.

[139] Yeah.

[140] And it's really, really good.

[141] It's really good.

[142] I was so proud of you.

[143] I wouldn't have done it if I knew how hard it was.

[144] Yeah, that's like the blessing of not knowing.

[145] Yes.

[146] Greta Gourweig talked about this with Barbie, where she was like, I wish the credits were like filmed by and then like all of the people because it's just such an impossibly difficult task.

[147] I mean, just the amount of people who supported the project and supported me, like just the emotional support of a filmmaker and just being nice to them and giving them hugs is really appreciated.

[148] So yeah, thanks for coming.

[149] It was so fun.

[150] It was so fun.

[151] And you did the thing that's scary to do, which is after you ask everyone for feedback.

[152] Yes, I did.

[153] And you know, I hate audience participation.

[154] You do.

[155] Oh, I hate it.

[156] Why?

[157] What are the, why do you hate it?

[158] I don't know.

[159] I just, like, even at an intimate dinner.

[160] A dinner.

[161] I just went.

[162] I hate participating in conversation.

[163] No, no, no. Like, I went to a dinner recently.

[164] It was a very intimate small group, maybe 10 people.

[165] I mean, some people knew each other, but not everyone knew each other.

[166] And so there was this, why don't we go around and say our name and just quickly like what we do.

[167] And it was very benign.

[168] It was, it was not a big ask.

[169] But of course, I hate it.

[170] As soon as that was instructed, I just sunk down.

[171] I don't like people looking at me. And this is now a new through line.

[172] We were talking about it on armchair yesterday, too.

[173] I I think I'm also because I've been watching so much couple's therapy, PIN.

[174] Oh my God, I can't wait.

[175] Pin.

[176] I'm so into it.

[177] Thank you for your Hulu Pastor.

[178] Of course.

[179] I've been thinking so much about my old stuff.

[180] And I used to be really shy.

[181] And that is seemingly completely gone.

[182] But then there are moments like audience participation where it flares up.

[183] And so, yeah, you asked all of us for feedback.

[184] And people were giving it.

[185] And I thought they were great.

[186] No, you hated it.

[187] Okay, you felt bad for who?

[188] You?

[189] Me. For some of the feedback.

[190] I was like, because in feedback situations, I do feel that many people want to just talk, to hear themselves talk, and to then feel like I contributed.

[191] I'm smart.

[192] Right.

[193] I've been in that situation too where, like, even in class, like I remember, like, sometimes, like, Yeah, I had a question, but I also, like, want to say something.

[194] You know, like, I think I have something really smart that's, like, important.

[195] I want to ask a question or contribute something so that everyone else can hear how smart I am.

[196] Right.

[197] That's an L .A. like screening type as well.

[198] Yeah, that's what this was.

[199] Like any Q &A in L .A. for screening, that's the type of people that are usually asking a question.

[200] L .A. specific, and especially if you're at any sort of screening or anything, because people, I believe, any of them think it's an opportunity because what if somebody else is kind of what if somebody else is in there who's like that person's so smart I'm going to hire them or like something off of your question at a screening wow yeah or on like the note you know sometimes people do note cards and it's like maybe I'll say something so profound and they'll be like I need to hire them as my assistant director or something LA's hard it's a hard place I'll be I'm so oblivious to that well not oblivious but I moderate panels, and I love panels.

[201] I'm like, I love a good panel, and I hate a bad one.

[202] And one of the things that drives me crazy is when I'll be in the audience and that the moderator isn't raining people in.

[203] If someone's just there to, like, talk and use someone else's panel as a soapbox for themselves, I get so irate.

[204] I almost just want to grab the mic away from them.

[205] So I relate to that.

[206] But there's so many pins in what you said.

[207] Okay, so you used to be shy.

[208] I also am shy.

[209] And it comes out.

[210] In all these weird, dude, like, same thing as like a small dinner or something about it.

[211] If we have to go around the room, my Tulsa program, I'm like, I can't share.

[212] Like, I get so nervous and shy and I don't want to be perceived.

[213] Yes.

[214] I don't want to be perceived.

[215] I don't want anyone to see me. I don't want anyone to know me. You brought it up recently at the end when people are holding hands sometimes you leave.

[216] I just like, is it that we're shy?

[217] The handholding feels not about shyness.

[218] It's an intimacy.

[219] Yes, which I totally understand.

[220] I probably would do the same thing.

[221] feel the same way.

[222] When did you get not shy?

[223] It was a slow burn.

[224] Probably over high school is when I really started to shed that because I was doing theater and I was cheerleading and stuff.

[225] But it's weird because those things are so external.

[226] But the feeling of shyness is more just in your everyday life.

[227] Yeah.

[228] It's not when you're performing.

[229] Performing is a different mode.

[230] And both of those have performance, cheerleading and obviously acting.

[231] So sometimes I'm like, maybe I'm still just really shy.

[232] But I don't think so.

[233] Because even like Easter egg, PIN, I don't feel shy on dates.

[234] You don't.

[235] What?

[236] Do you?

[237] Of course.

[238] I mean, for especially the beginning.

[239] You feel shy?

[240] I mean, I feel, is shy the term?

[241] Yeah.

[242] Like, I mean, look, it's really nice when you do go on a date with someone.

[243] Are you kidding?

[244] There's a bug.

[245] I feel like it came.

[246] There's bugs everywhere.

[247] There's a lot of bugs.

[248] I had a bug event.

[249] Pin.

[250] Wait, Rob, can you write down the pins?

[251] Bug event.

[252] I also want to talk about silent dinners because I feel like I wanted to put a pin in that, but I was putting pin in somebody else.

[253] But I feel like we should have a silent dinner.

[254] What?

[255] I think that so much gets lost when we talk.

[256] And that I know.

[257] This sounds so.

[258] One of the people at the screening, his name is Jess Rocks, and he does this group meditation thing, where you, you're just with people and it's, you basically meditate in group.

[259] And it sounds weird the way I'm saying it.

[260] It's called Kindred.

[261] And it's like, it's almost like you're like a cross between like a meditation group and like kindergarten.

[262] Like you're just kind of playing with each other and you're looking into each other's eyes.

[263] And there's moments where you're just literally told to look into the person's eyes for like a minute.

[264] And I start crying every time.

[265] Almost everybody does.

[266] I bet if we were to do this now, I would definitely start crying.

[267] What?

[268] I don't want to do it.

[269] Then we don't have to do it.

[270] But all the defenses come off, right?

[271] You're not.

[272] And at the beginning, you want to just look away.

[273] But the fact that you have to actually look into, because we also don't look into each other's eyes.

[274] I mean, we do because we're doing a show.

[275] And so we, you know, but even if we're hanging out, it would be weird, actually, if you just maintain eye contact, like intently.

[276] So anyway, silent dinners.

[277] But back to the shy thing.

[278] So you're not on date.

[279] So you don't.

[280] Do you feel nervous?

[281] Yes, I do.

[282] I do feel nervous, definitely.

[283] But when I'm there, I sometimes feel not the opposite of shy, but I sometimes feel like am I going to have to carry the conversation?

[284] That's sort of a fear I have.

[285] I think a lot of women might feel that way.

[286] I feel that for sure.

[287] Like a shy person wouldn't be able to do that.

[288] Okay.

[289] I don't think.

[290] Maybe it's not that I'm shy.

[291] Maybe it said I'm afraid of fucking up or looking stupid.

[292] That's really probably what it is.

[293] And so when it's something like go around and say your name and say what you do, I'll say something stupid.

[294] Yes.

[295] I think it's my favorite thing we do.

[296] It's such a cute little adult because a shy kid is like, oh, you're shy.

[297] But as an adult, it's so adorable.

[298] It's like you care.

[299] That's a good point because you talk about kids being shy all the time.

[300] This kid is shy.

[301] This kid is outgoing.

[302] But no one talks about shyness for adults, but those kids grow up into adults and still are probably keeping some level of shyness.

[303] Although as you go through life, you're forced to get rid of some.

[304] You're like put in situations where you have to get rid of some of that, I guess.

[305] Right.

[306] Anyway, wait, how we get on shy and then a bug light?

[307] Silent dinner, bug events.

[308] Well, there's a lot of bugs.

[309] But yeah, I just, I was falling a sleep.

[310] I was grumpy.

[311] There was a lot of like, I was feeling annoyed with a lot of things.

[312] And I was like, okay, just go to bed and see me, and I was just about to fall asleep.

[313] And I had definitely an object to fly into my vicinity.

[314] And into my ear.

[315] And like, I just was like, how do I, it's in my room and it's big.

[316] It wasn't just a little, like, I think it was one of those black butterflies.

[317] What?

[318] Like a moth.

[319] Like a real.

[320] That's a really sweet way of putting moth.

[321] It's a that it's a black butterfly.

[322] But it like it had floppy.

[323] Ew.

[324] And wings.

[325] Wait, moths are, you got to be careful.

[326] Oh, God.

[327] Because they'll eat all your clothes.

[328] So make sure you buy some moth traps.

[329] Traps?

[330] Yeah, I have some.

[331] They're these like sticky traps that you hang and they attract the moths.

[332] Have you noticed any holes in your clothes?

[333] I mean, this happened only 72 hours ago.

[334] It's a recent event.

[335] Oh, God.

[336] We'll see.

[337] I mean, I did open my window for a minute.

[338] Oh, you opened your window.

[339] But just for a little bit.

[340] So what if it was a bird?

[341] Oh, God.

[342] That's what I thought.

[343] Because again, when you're just falling asleep, I have a friend who was just falling asleep and was living in Brooklyn and a cat.

[344] No. A black cat went on her.

[345] And it was in her apartment.

[346] And then, you know, there's all kinds of stories.

[347] We all have a friend who had a cockroach, you know, in bed with them.

[348] Like there's, you know, and then everything crosses.

[349] So I hit under my covers like a child.

[350] And then I got hot, and then I was like, I can't sleep now.

[351] I know, I got really annoyed.

[352] And then the next day I was like, why did I feel so crazy?

[353] Because do you ever just get in your head and everything is a danger and everything's a threat?

[354] And then you just put on Taylor Swift for a few minutes and you're like, oh, my God, everything's fine.

[355] Or you'll just go out for a walk and you're like, it's all cool.

[356] But I was stewing in my own fear.

[357] But okay, so you're shy, you're not shy on dates.

[358] You've been on a few dates.

[359] Okay.

[360] Do you want to talk?

[361] I do want to do an update.

[362] Okay.

[363] It's really important that I do this update.

[364] because I edited our episode from last week, right?

[365] And it was such an interesting time for us to have recorded because it was after my first day and before my second date.

[366] And I had such a bad attitude going into the second date.

[367] You were unsure.

[368] I was unsure and I was like, I don't, I still think this feels a bit unsettling to be like kind of talking to two people.

[369] It's just unnatural for me. Yeah.

[370] So, yeah, I had a bad attitude.

[371] And I also had to wear my hair on a ponytail tail again.

[372] You look so pretty to a ponytail tail.

[373] Thank you.

[374] Like, it's insane.

[375] But I understand if it's not your preferred fit.

[376] It's not my preferred.

[377] I can't hide behind my hair if I have a pony in.

[378] And I wore like essentially the same outfit at just a different shirt.

[379] Yeah.

[380] And it was kind of like a cool experiment.

[381] It's like I looked the same.

[382] And the location was close.

[383] They were close to each other.

[384] I get there.

[385] It's super cute.

[386] Of course I park and I'm like, where am I?

[387] I don't even know where this is.

[388] New location.

[389] It was new location.

[390] Went up there.

[391] It was adorable.

[392] And he was there.

[393] And so he was there before me. Okay.

[394] A move.

[395] And he was great.

[396] Okay.

[397] It was a wonderful surprise and taught me a lot about expectations.

[398] and just like it's fine.

[399] It's all good.

[400] They're both great and very different.

[401] I like that.

[402] And this is, we've all seen this movie, right?

[403] Yes.

[404] Yes.

[405] It's the best.

[406] So many contestants.

[407] No, we're not calling them that.

[408] We are not calling them that.

[409] But they're both wonderful.

[410] And that's just for me, that's just hopeful.

[411] It's like there are really, there are wonderful people.

[412] Look, I've been on one day with both of these people.

[413] So maybe they aren't wonderful.

[414] Maybe they're horrible and I just don't know yet.

[415] Well, they're probably just people just like you.

[416] There's no such thing, right?

[417] Everyone, yeah.

[418] Everyone's wonderful and horrible.

[419] That's why when the first date's bad, don't go.

[420] It's like, it's only going to, we're only going to learn more about this person.

[421] I think that's right.

[422] Yeah, so that's great that you had a good first date.

[423] Yeah, and it was really easy.

[424] And we talked about some really funny little stuff, which was cute.

[425] And also my main takeaway, which is why I want to actually talk about this, because I think this is the only thing worth really imparting is other than my gossipy life.

[426] When I left that date, I was surprised at how much I enjoyed it.

[427] And I thought, huh, what did I enjoy about that?

[428] Because I really enjoyed the first one too, which we discussed.

[429] But this one felt very different, both good.

[430] So I was like, what's happening?

[431] And then I recognized that on this second one, and on the first one, too but again different um i really liked who i was on that date like i enjoyed the version of myself that was coming out on that day and perhaps it was because i had a sort of low expectation that i was probably coming in very me okay and then it was just easy to be like playful and me yeah and i liked it And there was space for that.

[432] He created space for that.

[433] So I think that's a really important thing for me to click in on dates is, do I like me on this date?

[434] Not does that person like me or do I like him even necessarily?

[435] It's do I like me in this environment?

[436] I was happy to have that realization because it sounds kind of woo -woo.

[437] If you had told me, I hope you just can like see if you're, like you on the date.

[438] I'd be like, okay.

[439] Like, I'll sure.

[440] So it was good.

[441] I stumbled upon that so that now I actually know what it feels like to recognize that.

[442] First of all, I think that's wonderful.

[443] It's funny because I thought about it afterwards because obviously, I wish I could have been there.

[444] Like with a little newspaper holes and like just been like able.

[445] But I loved how you explained it to me. And I loved imagining what he did and like how he.

[446] So like how did he make space for you to be the best version of who you are, or fully yourself, I guess.

[447] It's not even the best version.

[448] It's just fully you.

[449] Sinked is supported by Skims.

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[463] And I love getting like soft things for Christmas, right?

[464] Like for the holidays.

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[481] I don't want it to sound like the first date was not me. was.

[482] And it was also a version I liked, or I wouldn't want to probably continue.

[483] But it was a little different.

[484] And I guess on this second date, how did he make space?

[485] That's a good question.

[486] I guess he was definitely a good listener and good at keeping a conversation up.

[487] Both were, actually.

[488] But I don't know.

[489] Again, that's why I don't actually think it's about him.

[490] It was just something between us on that day that let me feel easy, which was nice.

[491] Yeah.

[492] You can frame it one way, which is your expectations are low.

[493] But I feel like the best dates I've had is when I've shown up with my glasses on, like don't have a bra, like I have a loose, whatever, right?

[494] That I'm showing up in the way that I, not that I'm on, you know, I'm showing up slubby, but I'm showing up in the way that I probably would show up with like a friend.

[495] Yes.

[496] Instead of like I'm positioning myself to be desirable or.

[497] trying to conjure this romantic energy between us.

[498] And I've had friends say that to me. It was my whatever state on hinge.

[499] And I just decided, I, you know, showed up in the afternoon.

[500] We didn't even do anything fancy.

[501] And, you know, you end up marrying that person.

[502] It's that you're showing up, you know, just as who you are.

[503] It's no surprise that best friends fall in love and get married.

[504] Because that's what's happening.

[505] You're just already you and you love that person.

[506] And you love you as you're that person.

[507] person with that person.

[508] Yeah.

[509] So it was pretty enlightening.

[510] I am going on another date with the first person and hopefully with the second person they're out of town currently.

[511] But they're both out of town.

[512] They're synced.

[513] They are fairly synced, which is really funny.

[514] And Sim.

[515] Wow.

[516] And you also, when we were talking about this, you were like, I wouldn't mind if I was dating someone who was dating more than one person.

[517] I wouldn't.

[518] You wouldn't.

[519] And that to me was.

[520] Oh yeah.

[521] You found that shocking.

[522] I mean, unless I don't like them.

[523] If I like them and I know they're going on other dates, you don't like it.

[524] I would be so sad.

[525] Well, maybe if we're like eight dates in.

[526] Yeah.

[527] I might feel that.

[528] But first, like, three or four dates, I hope they are going on multiple dates with multiple people.

[529] And gosh.

[530] So many contradictions in my brain, because I do have very low confidence in so many ways, but I also, maybe it's just because I see all these different couples in my life and everyone's great.

[531] Like everyone is a catch.

[532] All of my friends are fucking tens across the board personality, everything.

[533] And if I think about mixing up some of the pairs, it doesn't work.

[534] What do you mean mixing up the pairs?

[535] Like if I put this person with this person instead, that wouldn't be a good match.

[536] Right, right, right, right.

[537] And it has nothing to do with how great they are.

[538] Right.

[539] It's just compatibility is specific.

[540] It's not universal.

[541] It doesn't.

[542] You can be perfect, which by the way, no you can't because no one can.

[543] But let's hypothetically say someone's perfect objectively.

[544] Compatibility is going to be different between so many different people.

[545] And that's just life.

[546] And that's also cool.

[547] Like I'm starting to like that.

[548] Even in all the different relationships in my life, just like, oh, these compatibilities are different, anthropologically, I guess.

[549] I don't have an anthropology degree.

[550] I'm like sex.

[551] It's fascinating.

[552] Yeah.

[553] Like, I'm starting to get really interested in, like, this space between two people that happens.

[554] It's like this mat.

[555] It's like a potion.

[556] It's Hogwarts.

[557] Like a vapor that happens between two people.

[558] Chemistry.

[559] I guess.

[560] Oh, chemistry potions.

[561] What you're saying is so deep.

[562] Like, I think it's so helpful because when I like someone, I just think they don't like me back, right?

[563] Like, that's my go -to story.

[564] And you're right.

[565] It's like, no, it's...

[566] They might think you're perfect.

[567] And, again, but even the example about your friends is so on point.

[568] Because, yeah, you're not ranking your friends.

[569] All of them, you're like, oh, my God, like, you're amazing for all these different reasons.

[570] And you're right that if we swapped the couple, like, then it would be a disaster.

[571] And that's not because, nothing has changed about it.

[572] Exactly.

[573] It's just who you're with.

[574] And trying to make a relationship work with someone who's not compatible, I think what makes you stay in that relationship longer is thinking that you aren't perfect, right?

[575] Like, you're getting rejected.

[576] You don't want to be rejected.

[577] Yes.

[578] Or that you need to change something and then it will be.

[579] And it's like, no, sometimes it's just not.

[580] Sometimes it's not.

[581] And you can love the person or like think they're on the page just so perfect.

[582] And the vapor in between just isn't exactly what you want.

[583] Or they have the smell.

[584] Well, that's the smell is, the vapor has a smell.

[585] Yes.

[586] The smell is a chemical sort of manifestation of the emotional stuff too, which is like, oh, it just doesn't work.

[587] Yeah.

[588] So fascinating.

[589] Well, speaking of couples, should we talk about?

[590] Yes.

[591] Okay, so you binged.

[592] I binged couples therapy.

[593] Part of the reason I'm so tired today is I did it again last night.

[594] But two nights...

[595] Monica, you watch the whole season.

[596] No, not.

[597] I did half.

[598] I did half.

[599] Okay.

[600] Two nights ago, I started a couple therapy.

[601] We had Jedediah Jenkins on armchair.

[602] It's probably tomorrow.

[603] And he recommended couple therapy, this show on Showtime.

[604] Slash, you can watch it on Hulu, but it's on Showtime.

[605] That I guess everyone knows about, I guess everyone on TikTok knows about.

[606] Yeah, I've seen clips.

[607] some TikTok.

[608] Dax and I both had not heard of it.

[609] So they started it.

[610] Chris and Dax started it.

[611] And they were like, it's really, really good.

[612] So I started it a couple nights ago.

[613] And I started it at 8 p .m. And I watched the whole first season.

[614] I have no idea.

[615] I could do math, but I don't want to about what time it was when I finally went to sleep.

[616] I could not stop.

[617] I found it so voyeuristic in, I kept having to get up and then like walk to the back.

[618] bathroom and pee to move my back, because I was stressed.

[619] I was feeling very tense, but in a way that I, I, like, needed more.

[620] Wow.

[621] You were completely, because I watched an episode and I was like absorbed.

[622] It's very, like, you feel immersed and it's very intimate.

[623] It's so intimate.

[624] And you feel like you're in there.

[625] Yeah, you feel like you're not supposed to be in there.

[626] Yes, that's why.

[627] That's kudos to the couples.

[628] Yes.

[629] Who are.

[630] being, I think, I take it at face value, very real.

[631] Some things they say to each other, you're like, what?

[632] And in kind ways, too.

[633] And they're also learning about themselves.

[634] I mean, this is, so it's also like, it's a doc series.

[635] And it's kind of like Esther Perel, she's mating in captivity, but it's filmed and it's not her.

[636] But a couple's therapist is just giving couple therapy.

[637] And you, but it's, you have about like three or four couples throughout the season that you keep revisiting so you see how they're progressing.

[638] Wow.

[639] And what is also so interesting is there are people who, at first, you hate.

[640] Ew.

[641] Why is anyone in a relationship with this person?

[642] Am I going to start looking the guy that's like a cum laude narcissist?

[643] You might.

[644] Oh, God.

[645] I hated him.

[646] I was like, why?

[647] Yeah, like this person is not okay.

[648] He's just contrarian.

[649] I can't stand contrarian.

[650] He disagrees with everything.

[651] Anyone says.

[652] Absolutely.

[653] We end up liking him.

[654] By the end, I was like, I get him.

[655] Whether I like him or not, I understood him.

[656] And you meet these couples and you think, oh, my God, she's amazing.

[657] Why would she ever be in a relationship with him or vice versa?

[658] And you just start meeting all the pieces of everyone and you get it.

[659] It is just so hard to be a person on earth.

[660] It's like shocking.

[661] It's scary.

[662] It's so hard.

[663] The fact that there are so many of us walking around.

[664] The miracle.

[665] Yeah.

[666] It was crazy.

[667] What I loved about it is...

[668] How far did you get?

[669] Well, I only want...

[670] Because I had this gala.

[671] Oh my God.

[672] What best buddies?

[673] What's best buddies?

[674] Best buddies is like a friendship program.

[675] If anyone wants to get involved, there's chapters literally all over the world.

[676] So wherever it's between people with disabilities and people without disabilities and you just get a buddy and you hang out.

[677] have a job.

[678] It's an amazing organization.

[679] That's awesome.

[680] And if you're looking for volunteer opportunities, it's the best.

[681] So I watched an episode on the way there, and then on the way back, my Uber driver was very chatty.

[682] So I tried to...

[683] Also, okay, hard pivot.

[684] I feel like there's something going on with Uber's.

[685] The drivers don't get paid enough.

[686] Everything's mocked.

[687] Like, that's why I just sit there and I take it.

[688] But I feel like now I sit...

[689] I just get into an Uber.

[690] And the music is blaring.

[691] I'm kind of just there and you're just doing your thing as opposed to like, we're in here together.

[692] And even the way that the company was first branded, it's like, get a personal driver.

[693] Like for, you know, half the price or whatever.

[694] Or I don't know, that's how exactly they did it, but almost like getting, you know, driven around, right?

[695] Again, not the driver's fault.

[696] They are like so underpaid for what they do.

[697] But I do feel like things are getting up.

[698] So I was trying to watch.

[699] even on the first write out it was so loud the music and the radio and I just was like oh my God if I'm being so over -stimulated and I was trying to watch the thing and at one point he kind of heard that I was but even sometimes you'll be on a phone call or something and you have to say like can you like you just put it down so anyway do you put quiet preferred I do I know and I have noticed I just think again I just think everyone's not doing well that's just how I feel about everything everywhere all at once Yeah.

[700] I want everyone to, I want to time out.

[701] I feel like we all need a kindergarten teacher to be like, okay, everyone's come, turn off the lights.

[702] Let's just all sit and like, take a beat.

[703] That's not a thing.

[704] Unfortunately, unfortunately, there's no teacher of life.

[705] But you are the teacher of your own life.

[706] Yes, that's true.

[707] And you can, as hard as it is, touch base and say like, I have to do a timeout or turn off the lights.

[708] To your point, coming back to couples there.

[709] What struck me about watching that show and something I've been reflecting out lately is like, I don't say anything.

[710] In so many of my relationships, I've never done couples therapy and I've done a lot of personal work, right?

[711] And I've been with people who've also done personal work, but I've never done the couples therapy thing.

[712] But yeah, it just struck me that I'm honest, but I have trouble like when I'm disappointed or someone does something, I'll find it almost like humiliating to have to, tell them.

[713] Uh -huh.

[714] And I realize that that's, you know, being an adult means you have to say, you know, people can't always know what you want and know what you need.

[715] And I think I've cut a lot of relationship short because I've been like, oh, nope, this means that you, and I'll create meaning out of their actions, which it's not that I'm imagining things or that their actions aren't hurtful, but instead of sitting there and being like, okay, I was hurt and being like very honest, I think I can oh okay I hop out right when that's the uber situation I just need to say can you put the music down instead of just being angry the whole ride and then talking about it on a yeah yeah it's it's true because I guess it's weighing is it is it worth it like what is it cost versus cost benefit economy that's a that's a that's a economic yeah that's an economic term but do you struggle with that can you tell people when you're hurt Yeah, but I've done a lot of work on that.

[716] And sometimes it's not worth it.

[717] Like, I always am evaluating.

[718] Is this conversation worth having?

[719] And not like, because what will it cost me?

[720] What will I gain from having it?

[721] Is there actually anything to be gained?

[722] Sometimes the answer's no. It's just me feeling like, oh, I just really want to get this off my chest or they really need to know this thing that is bothering me and that they did to me. And, if I know that's not going to lead to anything, it's only going to cause more problems and knowing the difference of when actually this might lead to some change that's good for us versus, you know, like knowing that difference is really hard, but what I'm, I try to do all the time now is really evaluate.

[723] Is this worth me having a conversation over?

[724] My therapist said something really interesting.

[725] I was talking about something.

[726] This thing was bothering me like over time and and I said do I need to have a conversation about it she said well in doing that if you have a conversation you're actually increasing intimacy and that's why the couple therapy is nice because really what they're they are there to increase intimacy even though they seemingly hate each other like they do want to fix it which is lovely you know so so she was saying like it actually increases intimacy, which is fine if that's what you want.

[727] But if your actual goal is to really build boundaries, increasing intimacy actually doesn't do that.

[728] And that depends.

[729] You don't always need a boundary.

[730] Like, you know, it's establishing when you really need a boundary and when you really don't or if you're being like self -protective.

[731] But if you feel this person is not capable.

[732] of changing in the way that you want them to change.

[733] And you have to build a boundary around that.

[734] Having a conversation and asking them to change when you know they can't is just asking something of them, increasing intimacy, and then you're in it even more.

[735] Because, yeah, I think there was this thing of like, well, do I say that I'm putting up a boundary?

[736] And she's like, no, you just put up the boundary.

[737] I was like, yeah, that's complicated and feels hard.

[738] and can feel hurtful and painful but I think it's an interesting to sort of thing to say with it.

[739] So I don't think I have a problem with it all to say.

[740] I don't think I have a problem telling people but I've chosen not to often and I think that I'm way better off for that.

[741] Yeah.

[742] But like Uber driver you should say.

[743] I just feel anyway it's like I'm like he's you know or she but but it was a guy.

[744] It's often the one with the best musical taste was a woman.

[745] That's why I let her And I also was like, that's fine.

[746] But yeah, I guess there's a part of me that's like, whatever, it's going to sound like I'm, but I'm like, they're just, yeah, you know.

[747] Yeah, it's like they're driving and driving is so stressful and they're dealing with all these people and like they're just, they just want to listen to their music, you know?

[748] So when you say that, does it erase the anger?

[749] It doesn't.

[750] It's not the anger.

[751] It's like I'm, I almost feel like I need to talk about this.

[752] I feel so overstimulated lately.

[753] Like, I actually started wearing earplugs, even, like, walking around.

[754] Like, I feel like I'm sounds and, like, lights.

[755] Like, I just feel a little overstimulated.

[756] Well, that for me is anxiety.

[757] Oh, okay.

[758] Mine very much presents itself like that.

[759] And, of course, you're anxious right now.

[760] You have a lot going on, and the world has a lot going on.

[761] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[762] I'm probably just more sensitive.

[763] I'm a Pisces.

[764] I'm sensitive to begin with.

[765] By the way, so many people have said that, We are so, we are stereotypes of our size.

[766] Oh, really?

[767] Yes.

[768] I think that's right.

[769] So the mix of the Virgo Pisces, they say it's fun.

[770] It's fun.

[771] I mean, it's working for me. Yeah, me too.

[772] I think we balance each other out.

[773] Good balance.

[774] In some ways we're synced and other ways we're not synced at all.

[775] Which makes us sing.

[776] Exactly.

[777] I was going to say.

[778] We're learning the lessons we need to learn from each other.

[779] Yes, exactly.

[780] So over some, well, I hope, yeah, maybe more meditation to try to like, you said turn the lights down, take a time out.

[781] Yeah.

[782] I just need to be my own kindergarten t -shirt.

[783] I'm like not joking.

[784] Like I just need to like have playtime and turn down the lights and just have naps and let myself.

[785] Yeah.

[786] Someone needs to take the iPad away.

[787] We are supported by Warby Parker.

[788] You Liz are currently wearing your Warby Parker glasses.

[789] Not even on purpose.

[790] I just wear them every day now.

[791] I love your glasses.

[792] Thank you.

[793] They look so cute.

[794] Mine haven't come yet, but I'm so excited for them to arrive.

[795] I picked out my five.

[796] Oh my God, I love it.

[797] I love it.

[798] So I went in, actually.

[799] I got an eye exam, and it was like the best eye exam I've ever had.

[800] Because I can't see at night, and no one has ever given me like a real explanation, and the optometrist at Warby was like, you have large pupils.

[801] And so your eyes aren't adjusting, and so now I feel like I'm not, you know, losing my eyesight.

[802] Oh, my gosh.

[803] She was great.

[804] I did the home try -on program, and it was so fun on the website because you can virtual try -on.

[805] Yeah.

[806] Warby Parker offers everything you need for happier eyes.

[807] Eyeglasses, sunglasses, contact lenses, and eye exams.

[808] And you can shop with them online or in stores.

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[810] Try Warby Parker's free home try -on program.

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[814] Try five pairs of glasses at home for free at Warby Parker .com slash synced.

[815] Okay.

[816] Do we get all our pins?

[817] Bugs Life?

[818] Um, silent dinners.

[819] Dates.

[820] I think we've done it.

[821] Okay, great.

[822] So let's run the gamut.

[823] Let's do a few cues.

[824] Also, write us some questions.

[825] Yes.

[826] Submit questions.

[827] We love your questions.

[828] To the website.

[829] We love your questions.

[830] We love small town gossip.

[831] They don't have to be big existential questions.

[832] No, exactly.

[833] They can be like very, specific, like the more specific kind of the better.

[834] The better.

[835] I agree.

[836] Yeah, I'm with you on that.

[837] I loved the engagement ring one last week.

[838] Yes, we went deep.

[839] Yeah, and I hope you saw our video.

[840] We haven't done it yet, but you know, really confused her.

[841] I was like, do we make a video?

[842] Check out our video.

[843] Okay, let's see.

[844] Okay, speaking of gossip, this is A ding, ding, ding.

[845] How much gossip is too much gossip at work?

[846] Oh.

[847] I'm no mean girl by any means, but love a lunchtime tea spill with my work buddies.

[848] Except lately, I've been feeling like I've been saying too much.

[849] So please help me decide what info I keep off limits, Rachel.

[850] Oh, wow.

[851] That was great, because that was just the subject line?

[852] Yeah.

[853] Okay, great.

[854] Okay, we love this.

[855] My work girlies are all in different departments and share all the gossip about our team's bosses and more over lunch.

[856] I was recently struck with the realization that one of the girls may not be keeping the tea in the inner circle.

[857] As I overheard a convo she had with an outsider related to an in -group topic, I don't want to lose my work friend by refusing to participate in the gossip session and I fear that my own secret shares end up being not so secret.

[858] Can I find a balance?

[859] How do you decide when to shut your mouth?

[860] Gossip is so hard to resist.

[861] We all do it.

[862] It's how we evolved as human feelings, right?

[863] Even gossip is how workers' rights, right?

[864] And workers unite in workplaces and, right?

[865] It has so many positive outcomes.

[866] It has a purpose.

[867] But it also has so much destruction and can get you fired.

[868] Yes.

[869] That's one thing I learned when I was stupid in 26.

[870] Like, I was like, oh, they own all of the channels.

[871] Yeah, you are particularly like you're very vigilant, I would say.

[872] When you text and stuff, you always give like pseudonyms or...

[873] I never want to put...

[874] Which I laughed so hard out at first when you started texting.

[875] And then I get it.

[876] You never know who's around when the phone pop...

[877] You know, I've been in crazy friend situations where there was like...

[878] One of our friends was reading our text, like reading people's phones and like doing...

[879] And again, I thought it was just me, but then I have another friend.

[880] And so now I'm extremely paranoid.

[881] We could do a whole show about this.

[882] Because I do think about this a lot.

[883] So gossip for me was a...

[884] a coping mechanism in toxic workplaces that I've been in, or not toxic.

[885] I mean, every workplace can be difficult, right?

[886] And especially, I think right now, a lot of people are struggling with, like, they don't like their job or they're, you know, not getting paid enough and being asked to do so many things that are nuts.

[887] And people are working from home so you don't even have the free snacks and the hangouts.

[888] And so I get it.

[889] I think that gossip can be a way to create relationships and community and community within your workplace.

[890] I do think that if there's a weak link that is sharing, wearing, that is a one black and white.

[891] You can't talk to that person.

[892] Because that's your job.

[893] Exactly.

[894] Your livelihood.

[895] Your livelihood.

[896] That is to me, there's no nuance there.

[897] And even doing it as a group, like I would almost find like one person.

[898] Usually you'll have your work bestie, right?

[899] You can just look at each other.

[900] Yeah.

[901] And you don't even need to say anything.

[902] You're like, oh my God, this person again, right?

[903] And I think that that lowers the potential damage that it can create.

[904] It's hard, though, because I think it's nearly impossible to keep a secret.

[905] I really I do.

[906] I mean, just in my experience, people can't keep stuff to themselves.

[907] And they share it with one other person and do the same thing, which is like, obviously, you can't share this with anyone.

[908] And then that person's in another conversation where it's relevant.

[909] They say, okay, but you just like can't share it.

[910] And then all of a sudden, everyone knows.

[911] And so, I feel like the only secrets that can truly exist are if, like, two people commit a murder, right?

[912] Don't commit murders with your own.

[913] Oh, my God.

[914] No, don't.

[915] They will throw you under the bus.

[916] You might lose your murder.

[917] You might.

[918] You might.

[919] But, yeah, so if two people commit a murder and those two people truly do not tell anyone, that's the only way.

[920] but if one person tells their wife, it's already over, everyone knows.

[921] You're in jail.

[922] Yeah.

[923] I mean, do you watch your party?

[924] It's all that.

[925] Even they do it to together.

[926] I had to skip over the scary parts because I am such a scary cat, but it's really good, it's really fun.

[927] But even them, like, they're all friends.

[928] They have a real reason not to, yeah, stakes.

[929] And it obviously just, you know.

[930] See, wow.

[931] Yeah, snowballs.

[932] Okay, but I have a cautionary tale I want to share for this person.

[933] I know someone who works at a company.

[934] Revere jobs, hard to have.

[935] And a bunch of the people got fired because they were on a slack.

[936] They were talking about some other people in the workplace.

[937] And I don't know.

[938] Something happened where they left it up or something got sent.

[939] And the person who they were talking about, who was a superior, saw it.

[940] And they got fired.

[941] Yeah.

[942] They had big jobs and big positions.

[943] Wow.

[944] And they got fired over gossip.

[945] Gossip.

[946] And the content of chats, was it like this person's annoying or was it about their work?

[947] That I don't know.

[948] Okay.

[949] That I don't know.

[950] That is such a cautionary tale because especially if you feel safe in your job and like you're doing well in your job, you feel sort of inoculated and you forget.

[951] There are people above you and people are people and have hurt feelings.

[952] Of course.

[953] And if they have power over you, you have.

[954] to understand that in a professional setting.

[955] And it's humiliating.

[956] Like, like, have you, because I happened to me once, a small little company I worked at, and I sent a Google chat at that time, instead of to my friend, my bestie, gossipy, about my boss to my boss.

[957] No. I did.

[958] No. I did.

[959] No. And that's why I'm paranoid.

[960] Fuck.

[961] Yeah.

[962] What did you say?

[963] It was like, it wasn't as bad as some of the things that I think I had previously, like, Like, of all the things that could have ended up in his chat, it was probably a three out of ten.

[964] But it still was clearly, he was just bringing, whatever, if I get too specific, it'll be, well, who cares?

[965] But it was just like a really janky fire escape that was basically the conference room, honestly.

[966] And so my boss kept bringing people into the fire escape.

[967] And I was like, wise and I, you know, used the name.

[968] Like, you put everybody in the, you know, what's he doing?

[969] And I was like, oh, and I invented something.

[970] You did?

[971] I mean, of course.

[972] Because I'm, you know.

[973] Were you able to pull it all?

[974] I mean, it was one of those things where I think he knew, but he just was like, okay, like, yes.

[975] He was gracious.

[976] Yes, he was gracious.

[977] And exactly.

[978] And I was crushing it.

[979] They couldn't get rid of me. So, that, but that is what I'm saying.

[980] That's what some of these people were killing it at their job in a big job.

[981] And it didn't matter.

[982] Yeah.

[983] If someone's upset enough and they're your boss, you gone.

[984] Yeah.

[985] I mean, I had a work best we made up names for every.

[986] Everyone has a pseudonym.

[987] That code names that, like, have nothing to do.

[988] You can never know.

[989] Like, and we use that.

[990] But then I think there's always a line, right, where gossip can be fun.

[991] And again, help you connect.

[992] And that's how we evolved as a human race.

[993] But if you're even asking the question, it probably means you've crossed that line.

[994] Yeah.

[995] Where it's actually not bringing you closer together.

[996] And people feel it.

[997] I know.

[998] Even if you use code names.

[999] even if you're, you know, not even doing the look and you wait until after the meeting, people will feel it.

[1000] And then you're going to, that, you're, you're isolating yourself in a way, you know, from other people.

[1001] And the last thing I'll say is also, particularly with gossip, I have been trying to be much more mindful about how much I'm doing it.

[1002] Because gossip also makes you feel like you've done something.

[1003] And it actually just is going to build up resentment because the person or the people around you will keep acting the way that you, you do.

[1004] And just because you keep talking about it to someone else and not doing anything differently or not telling them, it almost can start eroding your relationships with, again, some of these people because you're clearly frustrated or think what they're doing is wrong or, again, just weird.

[1005] And instead of communicating it or having a response to it, you're going in another group and you're talking about it.

[1006] And it can create more momentum for resentment instead of connection.

[1007] And I just think it just creates negativity.

[1008] Yes.

[1009] Well, that's it.

[1010] And it can be fun.

[1011] And it feels like a relief and a release when you gossip.

[1012] But like you said, it's very temporary because it doesn't actually fix anything.

[1013] It's just a vent and then it's back the next day.

[1014] And so they'll do it again and then you'll have to do the cycle again.

[1015] It's ultimately negative.

[1016] And so if you want to like decrease the level of negativity, then I think for me a good trick is exactly what you just said about the Uber driver.

[1017] Right.

[1018] Try to find why that person is the way they are.

[1019] You like hate the way they are, which is fine.

[1020] Not everyone has to like everyone, but it's recognizing, okay.

[1021] That's a direct quote.

[1022] That's a Michael Scott direct quote from the office.

[1023] Like, why are you the way that you are to Toby?

[1024] It is.

[1025] It is.

[1026] It's so true.

[1027] And that's okay.

[1028] Like, it's also fine.

[1029] You will not like everybody.

[1030] No, you won't.

[1031] That's my point.

[1032] I'm not saying tried to like everybody.

[1033] You won't.

[1034] But you can recognize that is not a person I like.

[1035] I don't like that this, this, and this about them.

[1036] It drives me nuts.

[1037] I feel like it's affecting me. Well, that's actually a pin.

[1038] So if it's just like, this person's so annoying.

[1039] Try to in your own head give a justification of that.

[1040] They probably feel really insecure because they're not friends with us or whatever.

[1041] Because they're not in the cool group.

[1042] No, or whatever.

[1043] Whatever.

[1044] Just find the reason.

[1045] And it will bring you some compassion and you feel worse when you talk badly about someone and you know their insecurity and fallibility.

[1046] Yes.

[1047] And it'll be less tempting for you to create again.

[1048] And that's why it's fun.

[1049] You know, you're creating storylines.

[1050] You're just creating your own page six, you know, for your office.

[1051] But and monitor how much you do it, you know, and then change the subject.

[1052] And now you know this person can't, sorry, but there's a leak.

[1053] And so you have to, you have to tighten that shit up.

[1054] I don't.

[1055] It's scary.

[1056] That's very bad.

[1057] And again, you don't know.

[1058] I just, when people can be trusted, you know, I just would watch out.

[1059] Just watch your back a little bit.

[1060] And know just like universal truth that you're not special.

[1061] If people, if whoever you're talking to in this group, you're talking about other people, people are talking about you.

[1062] And they are probably because they're inclined to.

[1063] Yeah.

[1064] And it's kind of like, do I want to be part of this?

[1065] Because I've had that.

[1066] I have a friend who really engages in a lot of gossip.

[1067] And I love her, but I really recognize, oh, I know for certain she's talking about me too.

[1068] Because there is no way.

[1069] She's talking about every single other person except me. So when I'm engaging with her, I know that.

[1070] She likes to talk about people and she'll probably talk about me. And so that, like, shift.

[1071] my relationship with her a little bit.

[1072] Sure.

[1073] And changes what I'm willing to give.

[1074] So it's just being aware of it.

[1075] I think you're right.

[1076] Like noting the toxic line and having some compassion for just everyone.

[1077] Yeah.

[1078] Oh, except if it is affecting you or your work, I think that's something you have to address.

[1079] If you think your work is getting stifled or stamped on or whatever, stomped on, that's something for you to either have a conversation about with a superior in a very professional way.

[1080] In fact, I would do that.

[1081] I would not even talk to the person.

[1082] I would just talk to the boss and say, I'm struggling with this right now.

[1083] I wonder if you have any advice on how to go about it.

[1084] And also, this just came to mind, but like, gossip about your work with people who you don't work with, too.

[1085] Could be, like, if there's something that needs to be, right?

[1086] Like, my work best from a previous job just started a new job.

[1087] And she's just sending me slacks of, like, stupid, like, things.

[1088] And so we can commiserables.

[1089] Even though I've literally never met these people, obviously I'm not there.

[1090] I'm not going to.

[1091] And it has no, it sort of reduces the casualties that can possibly come from it.

[1092] Like, just talk about it to someone else.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] You know, keep it.

[1095] I agree.

[1096] Yeah.

[1097] Okay.

[1098] Did we do this one?

[1099] How do I increase the amount of sex I have in my relationship?

[1100] Sam.

[1101] We've done a sex.

[1102] We have done a sex one.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] Let's see if this right.

[1105] Okay.

[1106] We have an end.

[1107] No. Okay.

[1108] Hi, Monica and Liz.

[1109] My boyfriend and I have been together for five years.

[1110] We've lived together for four years and over the past one to one point five years, the amount of sex we've had dropped drastically.

[1111] Last year, I think we had sex less than ten times.

[1112] This year, I think it's been less than five.

[1113] All the times we have sex, I've been the one to initiate.

[1114] I've gained weight over that same time and I can't help but think my boyfriend isn't attracted to me anymore.

[1115] We both say we want to have more sex, but nothing ever comes from these conversations.

[1116] How can we increase the amount of of sex and intimacy we have and keep it up.

[1117] I feel like it's obviously a major part of our relationship that is missing, but the love and commitment is definitely there.

[1118] Ooh.

[1119] Sex is so deep.

[1120] I know it from couples therapy.

[1121] Season two.

[1122] Yeah.

[1123] What do they talk about?

[1124] There's a couple almost exact same question, gender reversed, where the boyfriend texted the girlfriend and basically said, I don't think we're having enough sex.

[1125] And then when were talking to the couples therapist about it, weight came up as an insecurity and it's so sensitive and wanting to feel wanted and attractive is we all want that.

[1126] And it feels devastating to think you're not attractive to your partner.

[1127] Part of what I learn in couples therapy is that you just have to be really, really communicative and really vulnerable.

[1128] And really vulnerable.

[1129] It made me really happy to be sitting alone in my bed if I'm being honest.

[1130] It's like oh my God.

[1131] Actually I was.

[1132] I was feeling so many things because I would vacillate so fast from oh my God I'm so glad I'm not in a relationship to these people they just love each other so much and just like can't make it work and I want that and I want to be in couples therapy.

[1133] I want to be in couples therapy.

[1134] It looks fun.

[1135] The way they sit is interesting.

[1136] It's that you have like, you kind of have a fact checker in the room, right?

[1137] Like, because in therapy, on one -on -one, you can kind of, I mean, if you have a good therapist, they'll, you know, notice and check you.

[1138] Yeah.

[1139] But overall, you can kind of just say.

[1140] They don't know the other part.

[1141] But there's someone else in the room that's like, I was there.

[1142] That's not actually, you know.

[1143] And I also had that feeling watching it too where I was like, man, I wish I could do this because I would learn so much about myself.

[1144] And there are so many things that I just wouldn't be able to avoid.

[1145] Right.

[1146] You can't avoid certain things.

[1147] I know.

[1148] I feel like we should normalize couple's therapy for any relationship.

[1149] Should we go to therapy?

[1150] Oh, God.

[1151] Maybe.

[1152] Have Esther come in and give us?

[1153] She did a whole thing about friends because she says that.

[1154] She's like the fact that friends don't go to therapy, it's weird.

[1155] Like we have family therapy.

[1156] We have couples therapy, but friendships often end.

[1157] And she did an, I think she didn't interview, whatever.

[1158] I can't remember what it was.

[1159] but she did with these two guys that lost, you know, drifted apart.

[1160] I don't know.

[1161] From the story, they seem like, oh, they just drifted apart.

[1162] But it's so deep.

[1163] They each had, like, assumed that a thing was true for the other person.

[1164] It wasn't true.

[1165] And to come back to Sam, she has insecurities about her body.

[1166] And she has feelings now from having decided that that's why her partner isn't having sex with her.

[1167] Yeah.

[1168] And I don't know what her partner thinks.

[1169] But unless she asks him and has a conversation about it, she's inferring that.

[1170] And that might just be a projection and a really painful one, which might not even have anything to do with it.

[1171] Yeah.

[1172] Okay.

[1173] Because I want to say that too.

[1174] I want to say you have to have a hard conversation and you have to lead with your vulnerability and you have to say, I'm feeling like this about myself.

[1175] And I'm wondering if you're feeling it because, okay, in the episode of the couple's therapy, the girlfriend says, yeah, he's gained weight and I don't like it, kind of.

[1176] Oh, wow.

[1177] Like, it's that straightforward.

[1178] And then she's very blunt this.

[1179] woman.

[1180] And in fact, she works on that throughout the process of therapy season two.

[1181] Why is she so harsh is something that starts coming out.

[1182] But after that session, like, they started working out together and like made that a part of their routine.

[1183] And she herself was like, I feel that way about me too.

[1184] People are so complicated.

[1185] All you can do is be honest.

[1186] It's the only thing that will get you anywhere.

[1187] So you just have to, I think, say, I feel like this right now.

[1188] And maybe I'm projecting it on you, but I'm worried that you aren't attracted to me right now because of my weight.

[1189] And I really want you to be honest with me about it.

[1190] And maybe we can come to a solution.

[1191] And maybe I'll say, like, I love your body.

[1192] Exactly.

[1193] Or maybe he won't.

[1194] I don't know.

[1195] But I hope he meets you with his honesty.

[1196] So you guys can really figure this out.

[1197] But do you, Liz, as someone who says you can't even tell the Uber driver to turn down the music, if something physical was happening with a partner.

[1198] Yeah.

[1199] There were some physical changes.

[1200] Who knows, wait, whatever, that you did find unattractive.

[1201] Would you be able to say it?

[1202] It's so funny because as we were talking, that's what was in the back of my mind.

[1203] The question of like, is that ever appropriate?

[1204] That's the moral, right?

[1205] Like, are you supposed to just love your partner unconditionally?

[1206] And that's what I like to believe.

[1207] Maybe I've talked about this with you.

[1208] But when I'm dating someone and they like really talk about my body a lot, a day's a guy who's like, oh my God, this part, you know.

[1209] He loves your parts.

[1210] Love my parts.

[1211] And actually that doesn't feel good to me. That stresses me out.

[1212] Because then I'm like, that means that I have to maintain this.

[1213] Or that means that if something happens, aka childbirth, like particularly women's bodies.

[1214] Yeah.

[1215] I mean, what are you saying?

[1216] Like, our bodies change just within our menstrual cycle, right?

[1217] For sure.

[1218] You can gain five pounds just having your period.

[1219] So your body's going to change.

[1220] Shit happens.

[1221] No one, I might get a cancer.

[1222] So I think, and maybe this is next.

[1223] What your partner's body looks like, not that we should pretend like you're not going to notice or it's not going to affect you in any kind of way.

[1224] But I think that if you're in a true partnership, it shouldn't be, I don't feel like you have a say.

[1225] Okay.

[1226] So this is interesting.

[1227] In theory, I 100 % agree with you.

[1228] I wish we lived in a world where physical, by the way, it sounds like they are in a loving, committed relationship that the love is not on the table here.

[1229] So I think that's good, right?

[1230] It's not like she's saying, I think he might leave me. Right.

[1231] She's saying, we don't have sex.

[1232] Yeah, that's true.

[1233] And so I think that's kind of common that you love someone and you're going to be there and you're committed.

[1234] But the physical attraction can wane.

[1235] And part of that, I think, is also just over time.

[1236] I think that happens.

[1237] But that's the thing.

[1238] You can't get in a relationship being like, well, this is what you look like.

[1239] You have to look like this the whole time.

[1240] It's not an expectation anyone should have.

[1241] It's not.

[1242] Also, we don't know.

[1243] We don't know if this person is.

[1244] feeling that way or not.

[1245] But we also are humans and sometimes things aren't as physically attractive as others.

[1246] And I don't know what to say.

[1247] If I was in a relationship and we were in a loving, committed relationship forever, standing the test of time.

[1248] Then all of a sudden, he came down with halotosis.

[1249] Halitosis.

[1250] Okay.

[1251] What does halitosis do?

[1252] Chronic bad breath.

[1253] Chronic.

[1254] Oh, okay.

[1255] Okay.

[1256] okay that would be very hard for me i'm just i don't think i would divorce that person or like leave them but i can't lie and say that's not going to affect my physical attraction and our sex life but maybe if we had a conversation about it i could say look that's why i'm saying could anyone ever really have this conversation where i could be honest and say look i love you i'm not going I'm here, and something's happened.

[1257] We can't kiss when we have sex.

[1258] I mean, that, like, maybe.

[1259] Something's happened and I'm sorry, but I can't be attracted.

[1260] Yeah, there's something physical.

[1261] Yeah.

[1262] And separating it from the emotional.

[1263] Yes.

[1264] And I love you no matter what, but physically we have a little ish.

[1265] And maybe there's some, like, middle solutions or something that we'll never get there if we don't have that conversation, but it also feels, I get that it feels impossible to have that conversation.

[1266] I feel like when I really love someone, even the things that are, like we've talked about this with someone that I was dating that has other people think, yeah.

[1267] And I was like, oh no, I love that.

[1268] Like because I was so, you know.

[1269] 100%.

[1270] Yeah.

[1271] That's different though.

[1272] You like it.

[1273] I wasn't like this smells great.

[1274] You kind of come to love the things that are imperfect about them.

[1275] Yes, but that's different, right?

[1276] Because you're falling in love with him and you know it.

[1277] It might be different.

[1278] It might be.

[1279] I don't know.

[1280] It might be different if you are already in the relationship committed.

[1281] And then all of a sudden you're like, why do you smell like that?

[1282] Okay.

[1283] Okay.

[1284] All of a sudden.

[1285] I don't like that smell.

[1286] But obviously, I love you.

[1287] I love you.

[1288] Yeah.

[1289] But this is tricky.

[1290] I think the answer is you have to be vulnerable and say that you're struggling with this and that you're scared and see what he says.

[1291] Yeah.

[1292] It's scary.

[1293] This is all being, again, being a person, is impossible.

[1294] Why is it so, they should give us classes.

[1295] Metal.

[1296] Even at the best buddies thing last night, like someone was like, oh yeah, I taught, I teach like life class to people with intellectual disabilities.

[1297] I teach them how to like, you know, organize a party and go to a grocery store.

[1298] And I was like, I kind of need that.

[1299] Where are those classes for us?

[1300] Because I need a class.

[1301] You know, and I think for this, it's, in many cases, this is also something that your partner is aware of and annoyed with or trying to fix, quote, quote.

[1302] Well, yeah, he's apparently saying, they're both saying.

[1303] Yes.

[1304] But even if there's this new physical change, right?

[1305] I think in certain cases, it's not really your job to tell them that this turns you off as much as, okay, wait, how do I don't put this?

[1306] If they're aware of it and they're managing it, it's not your job.

[1307] Which person?

[1308] If your partner, again, I feel like also like some people might have these things where, you know, and then I don't want to make people feel that.

[1309] I know.

[1310] I know.

[1311] Me either.

[1312] But I want to be honest because I do think probably a lot of people have dealt with this.

[1313] Yeah.

[1314] And it's hard.

[1315] In sickness and in health, though.

[1316] What do you do with that?

[1317] But in sickness and in health doesn't mean I'm going to have sex with you in sickness and in health.

[1318] Okay.

[1319] This is the difference.

[1320] And I do think there's a real difference.

[1321] We also don't know that someone's got a disease in this question.

[1322] She's getting like a little weight And they're not having a lot I get what you're saying Insignness and in health is Doesn't matter what the fuck happens In this We're together forever You also believe in that A little more than me Not in sickness and in health I definitely believe in insignis and in health But you have a very optimistic view Of partnership I saw it with my family I think I had it modeled Where like I think most people Would have left I love that You do a very optimistic view Which I think is beautiful And yeah, when you commit, it's a choice every day.

[1323] You commit.

[1324] You've decided.

[1325] And I don't think that's necessarily the same as physical attraction.

[1326] And I do think we have to parse those two out.

[1327] And it probably helps to do that, right?

[1328] Because then it doesn't make it this personal rejection thing of, again, you don't want to be with me. It's like, I think your view is good in the sense of like, if you take sex as a metaphor for your whole relationship, then you might turn it into a bigger thing.

[1329] Yeah.

[1330] The issue won't get resolved.

[1331] Then it's become this whole, do you really love me?

[1332] And I think that's how it feels when someone knows that one.

[1333] you know, when you feel rejected.

[1334] It's about being desired.

[1335] Yes, it's a physical problem, but it's so emotional.

[1336] Exactly.

[1337] And even in this Sam's letter, it's mostly about the emotions.

[1338] So it's not like, he's not even talking about the physical consequences.

[1339] It's having a lot of emotional consequences.

[1340] So I think we should speak more openly.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] And we have a lot of questions around sex or what we were talking about last week around, you know, SDIs.

[1343] Because it's sex, it's like, oh my God, we can't, there's this stigma or there's this fear.

[1344] There's this silence around things.

[1345] And it's like, no, like, let's just talk about it in the way that we talk about everything else in our relationship.

[1346] Like, chores and domestic labor and, you know, those boring elements.

[1347] Like, have a boring conversation about sex, I think should be the goal.

[1348] Yeah.

[1349] Sam, you're perfect.

[1350] Yes.

[1351] And I hope.

[1352] I would totally have sex with you.

[1353] And I mean, about you.

[1354] Have a conversation so that you're not creating, you know, a whole narrative that might not be true.

[1355] I would say 99 % chance.

[1356] It has nothing to do with your.

[1357] I agree.

[1358] And so let's figure out what it is.

[1359] Because also maybe it's like libidos are not always at a 10.

[1360] And men also feel very obligated to keep it out of 10.

[1361] And if they're not, they feel like they're not masculine or they're not adequate.

[1362] And so maybe he just isn't really physiologically feeling very sexual, but feels like he has to kind of keep up the facade that he is.

[1363] I mean, there's a million things.

[1364] So many things.

[1365] So just get to the bottom of it.

[1366] Watch couples there.

[1367] Let's see.

[1368] I have a shorty.

[1369] We could try this.

[1370] Let's try it.

[1371] Okay.

[1372] Didn't get a plus one for my boyfriend, Christina.

[1373] Close friends of mine are getting married, and I did not get a plus one for my boyfriend for the wedding.

[1374] We all go to the same CrossFit gym.

[1375] I knew the couple before they were a couple, and we had an established friendship before my boyfriend started at the gym.

[1376] My boyfriend has social anxiety, and it takes him a long time to warm up to people.

[1377] It took him over a year before he was even comfortable with me, and during that time, it was hard to tell if he was interested.

[1378] at all.

[1379] But we've been dating for over a year now.

[1380] I'm pretty upset I didn't get the plus one for him.

[1381] I know it's not due to budget or limited space and other people in similarly situated relationships got the plus one.

[1382] I have a feeling it's because my boyfriend does not make an effort to make small talk at the gym when he sees them.

[1383] He's just terrible at that and he's not doing it to be mean.

[1384] I know it's their day and they can do what they want, but I was shocked they excluded him and I got pretty sad about it.

[1385] Should I try to see it another way and not have hard feelings over this?

[1386] What do you think?

[1387] I would want to know how Because, I mean, it's not going to change it, though.

[1388] That's the thing.

[1389] Getting any details is not going to change it.

[1390] They, for some reason or another, and you don't know why.

[1391] And I don't think knowing why is going to change anything.

[1392] I have a hot take.

[1393] Yeah.

[1394] Oh, God.

[1395] Go.

[1396] I think what's happening when he gets excluded is there's, well, two things.

[1397] One, a fear that you'll eventually be excluded if you stay in this partnership.

[1398] because this person, you're worried, causes people to isolate or distance themselves from him.

[1399] And if you stay in this partnership, you might be isolated too.

[1400] I feel like that's what's happening for you personally.

[1401] Like, you're scared that you yourself will not be invited to the next thing.

[1402] And I think this happens a lot where if you haven't really noticed or cared about something in your partner, and then your friends express that they don't like something.

[1403] Now you see this in a new way.

[1404] You see this, let's call it, character defect flaw, whatever you want to call it.

[1405] And now you're a little angry because now you have to sit with the fact that you're in a relationship with a person like this and do you want to be.

[1406] You've been sort of put in this position to have to think about it and that's uncomfortable.

[1407] I think that's bull's eye.

[1408] A wedding is a way.

[1409] I don't know.

[1410] It's like whatever.

[1411] I mean, not whatever, but it's not that much of a big deal.

[1412] Exactly.

[1413] It's a party.

[1414] Not that much of a big deal, but it seems like a big deal to you.

[1415] And you're explaining so many things about him and you're defending him in your letter, which is not a bad thing.

[1416] I totally get that.

[1417] But the fact that you're kind of defending him means that you feel, yeah, you're feeling defensive around this.

[1418] And you haven't talked to them about it directly.

[1419] So we don't even know that that might be the reason, but it seems like you're pretty.

[1420] pretty sure that is.

[1421] Yeah, which means that you yourself are somewhat struggling with that.

[1422] And to that, I would try to remind you, even though this is so hard, you're not him.

[1423] And you can love someone with lots of issues because anyone you love is going to have lots of issues.

[1424] We all have lots of issues.

[1425] So I think also you might be taking those on like we often do as yours and they're not yours.

[1426] He's his own person with his own set of things.

[1427] And they might be unappealing to other people, but that doesn't mean you are unappealing.

[1428] And if you love him, you can love the flaws.

[1429] You can be okay with it.

[1430] You can choose to and say, I know this about this person.

[1431] And you can have acceptance around it.

[1432] And that's it.

[1433] You're okay because you already know.

[1434] And you have decided that it's all right.

[1435] Yeah.

[1436] And he might not even want to go.

[1437] It seems like he's not about the wedding.

[1438] That's the thing.

[1439] It's not like, oh, he's upset and he's sad, and like, it's like, you're sad that he didn't get invited, but it doesn't even seem like he really wants to, he didn't want to be invited in the first place.

[1440] So also accepting that, yeah, this might be a relationship where you are going to weddings and maybe have that conversation.

[1441] By yourself.

[1442] Yeah.

[1443] Like if your partner does have a lot of, you know, and that's common.

[1444] Yeah.

[1445] Often extroverts, love introverts and vice versa, right?

[1446] But sort of accepting that and that reality.

[1447] Yeah, it's, I think when you recognize, oh my God, my friends don't like my partner.

[1448] that is heavy.

[1449] It is.

[1450] But then you have to, do I like my partner?

[1451] They're not living with him or in a relationship with him.

[1452] You are.

[1453] If you do, that's great.

[1454] Yeah.

[1455] All right.

[1456] I think that's it.

[1457] Check out our video.

[1458] Remember, we have a video.

[1459] Oh, it's so good.

[1460] It's such a good video.

[1461] You guys had so much fun making that video.

[1462] Oh, my God.

[1463] It's so much fun.

[1464] We're manifesting.

[1465] We are.

[1466] So thank you for listening.

[1467] And please submit.

[1468] Keep submitting.

[1469] Yes, we love your questions.

[1470] We love the questions.

[1471] We're so grateful to everyone who's submitted already.

[1472] And we'll see you next.

[1473] Wait, what is today?

[1474] Today is, this is the 22nd.

[1475] Cool.

[1476] Wow, we're just heading straight into these holidays.

[1477] It's nuts.

[1478] It's nuts.

[1479] All right, I love you.

[1480] See you next week.

[1481] Bye, love you too.