Cecily Strong

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Minister Mouse.

[3] Hello.

[4] Hello.

[5] How are you?

[6] Great.

[7] Oh, wonderful.

[8] Today we have Cecily Strong, and Cecily is an Emmy -nominated actress and comedian.

[9] You know her and I know her from Saturday Night Live, Ghostbusters, The Awesomes, and her new show, Shmigadoon.

[10] Also, she has a new book out now called This Will All Be Over Soon, which we will talk a lot about.

[11] an incredible work she's undertaken.

[12] And I think you will enjoy Cecily Strong.

[13] Wonderly Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[14] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[15] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[16] And I'm in here with my dog, so I apologize.

[17] Oh, we had my kid in here one second ago, which is much more destroy.

[18] acting, I think.

[19] Well, you don't know my dog.

[20] Let's wait and see how this plays out.

[21] Ready to party?

[22] Woo!

[23] Thank you, by the way.

[24] This is a great mic.

[25] You're welcome.

[26] And feel free to re -gift it to somebody.

[27] What an interesting gift.

[28] People assume I had a mic and I don't.

[29] I would have assumed that.

[30] Well, I did have one.

[31] I don't know where it is.

[32] Okay.

[33] That makes more sense.

[34] Because I was going to say, how did you get through all of quarantine without having to record stuff?

[35] for most of it, I did it with just my AirPods.

[36] So I didn't sound great.

[37] But who did?

[38] That's a small price to pay for not getting a mic.

[39] Right.

[40] Where are you currently?

[41] Because the background through the windows is very green.

[42] It's very green.

[43] I'm in Hudson Valley.

[44] Tell me about that area.

[45] So I'm near Rinebeck.

[46] So I had two Airbnbs last summer.

[47] One was in Stone Ridge, which is on the west side of the Hudson.

[48] I spent the second half the summer in Rinebeck.

[49] And then I loved it.

[50] much so I bought a house.

[51] Do you know at all where Rockefeller's place is in relation to where you're renting?

[52] You don't mean Rockefeller Plaza, right.

[53] No, no, I mean, um, John Lee, Rockefeller had a house and these turkeys used to take like steamboat ride to work, which I find so fascinating.

[54] They'd have breakfast and stuff and they'd be in suits and I'm really enchanted by the whole era.

[55] That sounds great.

[56] I'm not near enough water.

[57] I have a tiny little pond.

[58] I could just go to the other side of the pond in my steamboat.

[59] And do you pop into that pond for a swim or is it not that type of pond?

[60] I definitely don't.

[61] It is not.

[62] There's a lot of frogs in there.

[63] I just found out that frogs hibernate.

[64] I'm learning about frogs here.

[65] Oh, my God.

[66] Yeah, what do we call a frog expert?

[67] Someone that knows a lot about.

[68] There's a name.

[69] It's a very tough name.

[70] It feels like frogs don't deserve it.

[71] Yeah.

[72] That's a great way to look at it.

[73] Like, what have they done to earn this?

[74] To earn that name.

[75] Ostentatious title.

[76] Fuck.

[77] Herpetologist?

[78] Oh, wow.

[79] Herpetologist.

[80] I think that's what it is.

[81] Herpetologist.

[82] I can't believe we just pulled that out.

[83] I usually wait to like 20 minutes in to try to impress you really hard, but I'm coming right out of the gates with some stuff.

[84] That coffee works.

[85] And you're from Illinois.

[86] So this kind of setting suits you, I'd imagine, right?

[87] This feels very Michigan.

[88] Yes.

[89] Yes.

[90] I long for that what you're in front of so much.

[91] We just got home two days ago from a 20 -day RV trip.

[92] It was gorgeous.

[93] We went to Montana, Idaho.

[94] Ohio, Wyoming.

[95] It's all incredibly beautiful.

[96] But I don't get that cellular response to like the humidity, the green deciduous trees, the whole thing, the smell of lakes and rivers, all that stuff I find intoxicating.

[97] Exactly.

[98] It's so Michigan here.

[99] So we would go on vacation, like my friends with money had houses in Union Pier, New Buffalo.

[100] So I spent a lot of time there.

[101] It's gorgeous.

[102] Yeah, it's so pretty for three months of the year, you can't beat it.

[103] And then it's absolutely miserable.

[104] That's like Chicago.

[105] Yeah.

[106] It's character building.

[107] It is character building.

[108] It's also it leads to, and I wonder if you suffer from this, it's a real bipolar existence because it's like you're absolutely miserable suicidal come April.

[109] It's been gray for four months.

[110] Yeah.

[111] And then it's 49 and sunny.

[112] And then everyone's tops are off and they're driving their car with the convertible down.

[113] It's insanity.

[114] You can see on everyone's face the elations at an alarm.

[115] Right.

[116] And you're like, you know you shouldn't be wearing shorts.

[117] It's not warm enough yet.

[118] But it's just that it's not an ice storm where wind is like punching you in the face.

[119] Your car is not stuck in snow on Lakeshirt Drive.

[120] Exactly.

[121] And then there's like, it almost feels like someone hits a stopwatch and people are like, we got a fucking camp nine times.

[122] We got to go to Cedar Point.

[123] We got to go like you got to do everything in the next three months.

[124] And there's always like, yeah, there's jazz fest.

[125] There's taste of Chicago.

[126] It's like we do everything.

[127] thing in the summer.

[128] You're like, go outside right now.

[129] We have one month.

[130] Ding, ding, ding.

[131] We're the frogs of the human race because we basically just hibernate from November into May. And they hibernate while frozen.

[132] Right.

[133] Similar to people from the Midwest.

[134] Oh, my God.

[135] We figured it out.

[136] So, yeah, would you go to Lake Michigan?

[137] Is that what you guys would do?

[138] Because you're only like a couple hours, right, to drive up to some pretty nice beaches on Lake Michigan?

[139] For years and years growing up.

[140] our week -long summer vacation was at Michelinda Beach Resort.

[141] And it was called Michelinda, because it was Michigan, Illinois, Indiana, you know, all the people from around there.

[142] And there was a little candy store down the driveway.

[143] And I remember I bought candy cigarettes there all the time.

[144] Remember how they used to make those for children, candy cigarettes?

[145] Absolutely.

[146] And not only the obvious reasons we wouldn't do that now, but also terrible candy.

[147] It was like a big stick of chalk.

[148] But as like a child actor was my favorite.

[149] thing i always said it well let's be clear are we talking about because they did come up with ones that were rolled in paper that had a little bit of talcum powder in there and you could blow out smoke and had chocolate in the middle oh and then and then they had terrible chalk ones that were just painted red at the end right i think i had the chalk ones they're old standby the chalk ones bring those back well i was going to ask did that candy store there in rural michigan also sell like a lot of like charleston chews and really big weird candy bars you didn't get at the drug store Yes.

[150] It was not great candy.

[151] It was no Mr. Bulkies, which was like the bulk candy store at my local mall.

[152] That was one of those things.

[153] You know how you know things in weird ways as a kid?

[154] Like I thought the serious tower was the serious tower.

[155] And I thought Mr. Bulkies was named after Balky from Perfect Strangers.

[156] From Perfect Strangers.

[157] You're a little young to like Perfect Strangers.

[158] How were you consuming that?

[159] I'm 37.

[160] That's a bullseye for you?

[161] Perfect Strangers was on when you're a kid.

[162] Oh, yeah, for sure.

[163] Oh, but you were born in, what, 84?

[164] 84, very early, February 84.

[165] Okay, we're going to figure this out in the fact check, but my hunch is you were probably four years old watching it.

[166] That would track for me. I mean, Falky is the perfect character for a four -year -old me. That's a good point.

[167] So how far out of Chicago did you grow up?

[168] I grew up in Oak Park, so it's across the street.

[169] Uh -huh.

[170] The blue line and the green line goes to Oak Park.

[171] They both stop at the end of Oak Park.

[172] Yeah, and for folks that don't, maybe haven't interacted with what how do we call chicago indians chicaguanians chicagoans chicagoans so if you've done like chicaguan's you're fucking idiot so for people who have not been to chicago it's a phenomenal city again as we said it's kind of bipolar it's like miserably cold or you're trying to cram your whole life into three months drinking is totally respected and it's it's done to perfection there very very kind of cool blue collar vibe if you're from michigan it's not very different but maybe for other folks, it is a bit different.

[173] But anyways, salt of the earth, love to fucking party.

[174] Only place probably I've been where I've seen more people at three just openly puking mid -conversation, which I totally dig.

[175] Do you think I summed that up a little bit?

[176] I think that's great.

[177] I find I get along well with Midwesterners.

[178] It's like people that have to like comment on things in an airport.

[179] I feel like I always have to like, well, that was awkward.

[180] Okay, you watch my bad.

[181] Don't steal them.

[182] Like, always feel like I have to make a weird joke or something.

[183] Right.

[184] And that's just a, I feel like very, whenever I'm flying home, I'm like, I understand who's on the plane with me. Yeah, and maybe like loyalties prized a little more than other places.

[185] Yeah, for sure.

[186] It is in Detroit.

[187] Like, loyalty's a big thing.

[188] Yes, definitely.

[189] Sometimes I think, too, it's detriment.

[190] Like, Chicago, it's like, I sometimes want to shake it and be like, you're a better city than you're letting yourself be.

[191] Well, it's really funny because this is a very recent realization of mine, which is loyalty would have been number one on my list of reasons I like someone for most of my life.

[192] And then I was breaking it down with my best friend, Aaron, and we were really like getting into it.

[193] And I was like, you know, why is that a key component?

[194] Are we going to commit a crime?

[195] What I came to realize is like there's almost this unwritten rule where it's like, I'm going to act like a piece of shit sometimes, but you're going to stick with me. And look, I know you're going to be a piece of shit sometimes and I'm going to stick with.

[196] you.

[197] And it's just an interesting proposition.

[198] The real friendship is seeing ourselves past imperfections.

[199] But it's like, you know what, that's too much.

[200] Let's just call it loyalty.

[201] Boom.

[202] We're done.

[203] That's what it is.

[204] Yeah.

[205] So you got booted out of high school?

[206] Yeah.

[207] I was expelled my sophomore year.

[208] This is exciting.

[209] I mean, it's fine now, but it was awful at the time.

[210] I was kind of a nerd and very, I was a good student and I liked school.

[211] I never quite fit in for, I wasn't like a popular kid, but, and I did theater.

[212] It was the first bag of pot I ever bought, like a very seedy gross.

[213] Oh my God, for real, your first bag of pot.

[214] The first bag of pot.

[215] And I was auditioning for the shadow box, the play.

[216] And I asked someone to, like, move my book bag.

[217] And of course, it was in my book bag, because we hadn't touched it, really.

[218] It was more that was, like, exciting that we had bought this bag of pot, my friend Liz and I. And then the security found it.

[219] And they went through the bag with me, like as a game not opening the pocket that they knew the pot was in to like sort of watch me squirm and it was like who they were stringing it out yeah we had a new superintendent that year and they wound up just expelling so many of us which feels crazy because it's like you're throwing 16 year olds out my friend Craig and my friend Sam were expelled at the same time and I always like to talk about it now because Craig was named like Oak Parker of the year he's this amazing guy he played indoor football.

[220] He, like, saved a woman from being attacked on the train platform.

[221] And he gave a kidney to save a friend.

[222] Oh, my goodness.

[223] Yeah, what a piece of shit.

[224] Let's get him out of this high school.

[225] So throw that kid out.

[226] Yeah.

[227] I would love to talk to the superintendent at this point and just go, like, you must regret that decision, booting kids over weird.

[228] Yes.

[229] I would hope that she does, but I don't really know if she does.

[230] And it was a kind of thing where it was sort of if you were an athlete at the school, they'd get busted and have things on.

[231] the bus, and it was a slap on the wrist.

[232] Yeah.

[233] It's like a microcosm of the real world.

[234] It was.

[235] Yes, it was my first experience as that as a white woman.

[236] I didn't have a lot of adversary, but that was my first like, oh, I'm just falling through the cracks and I don't matter.

[237] You're expendable.

[238] We have a friend whose brother was in jail for like a year for pot.

[239] And now I'm like, how do they, now it's legal here?

[240] Like, how do they give people their year back?

[241] Like, it's insane.

[242] It's insane, the amount of people that are in jail right now for pot.

[243] If I were like an activist, a good activist, I feel like I would start there.

[244] Because it's a lot of people of color.

[245] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[246] When you're watching them go through the bag, you're probably, are you an acceptance mode?

[247] Like, well, they're going to find this.

[248] It's not a huge bag.

[249] There's only a couple pockets.

[250] Totally freaking out, panic attack.

[251] Did you beg?

[252] Probably on the inside, but I think I didn't say anything.

[253] And then it was like, my mom was very into beating for a while.

[254] And I had like this jewelry tools to like fix jewelry.

[255] And I remember at one point they went through my purse and they were like, and this is a roach clip.

[256] And I was like, that's a beating tool.

[257] Like this is how wrong you have me. Yeah.

[258] This is how she's doing her pot with this tool.

[259] And I'm like, can I?

[260] How do you do that?

[261] Tell me, I'd love to know.

[262] I want to show off.

[263] Yeah, but it wound up working out because I went to a school.

[264] I loved my senior year and my community service found up being something that was very special.

[265] Hold on.

[266] Hold on.

[267] Oh, God.

[268] Oh, God.

[269] So there was criminal charges levied against you as well?

[270] There was like a program.

[271] It would get expunged if I did 100 hours of community service.

[272] And the guy who ran the program was super nice and didn't treat me like a criminal.

[273] And I wound up working at an HIV, like, community center in my town that would help with housing.

[274] It was like social services for the HIV positive community around where I lived.

[275] And so I spent my summer there, and it was great.

[276] And this is what, in 2000?

[277] Yeah.

[278] You were 16 or so?

[279] Yeah.

[280] So the dude who was running the program recognized, like, oh, yeah, this is a 16 -year -old gal, probably not a career criminal.

[281] Right.

[282] I think his whole point was, it's a 16 -year -old kid, no matter what.

[283] And, you know, 16 -year -olds who got pot on them are not terrible people.

[284] How did your parents take it?

[285] Are they kind of liberal by nature?

[286] Were they like, yeah, this happens?

[287] They are.

[288] And I think they were probably smoking pot off and on at the time.

[289] Bill and Penny.

[290] Bill and Penny.

[291] They were very gentle with me, and they saw, like, my life was kind of falling apart then.

[292] And they were like, that's punishment enough.

[293] And they were really supportive.

[294] And the school wanted me to go to an ombudsman school, which was at the time kind of explained to me as a place for kids with emotional disorders.

[295] And I was like, what?

[296] I had a bag of pot.

[297] So I wound up going to Catholic school, which was its own journey, a very interesting place in Chicago, and all girls Catholic school.

[298] But then that's not where you graduated from, is it?

[299] No. So then I went back to public school.

[300] Then they said I could come back the next year.

[301] I went back, but it was sort of, I was super depressed.

[302] I was down to four classes a day, and I didn't have enough gym credits and a class called Consumer Ed.

[303] So they were like, you're going to be a fifth year senior.

[304] And I was like, I'm a straight A student.

[305] There's no way.

[306] Like, I fell through the cracks.

[307] So I dropped out and wasn't sure.

[308] I was like, I guess I'll get my GED.

[309] and then we found an art school.

[310] So my senior year, I went to art school, did correspondence courses, and graduated on time.

[311] Oh, my.

[312] Wow, what a journey.

[313] What a journey.

[314] This is a completely inane detail, but I just need to know because in my mind, this bag of pot isn't even in a Ziploc top.

[315] It's more in the sandwich bag variety where it could be falling everywhere.

[316] Is that?

[317] Yeah, I mean, some kind of dirty little zip block.

[318] Yeah, just full of seeds and twigs.

[319] It probably wasn't even.

[320] and just try half like grass, actual grass in oregano or something.

[321] All right.

[322] So then you go to Cal Arts, which is Cal Arts in Pasadena.

[323] Is that where that's at?

[324] It's in Santa Clarita.

[325] Oh, it is?

[326] Yeah.

[327] By six flags?

[328] It's right by six flags.

[329] It's in the shadow of six flags?

[330] Yes.

[331] Do you guys say six flags?

[332] Wait, what do you say?

[333] I say six flags.

[334] I think I say six flags too.

[335] Okay.

[336] So you're a odd man out.

[337] Wait, I say six flags.

[338] Yeah, that's, that's weird.

[339] So I'm supposed to say six flags?

[340] Six flags.

[341] Six flags.

[342] Oh my God, what a distinction, and I don't even know what it changes.

[343] Six flags.

[344] The emphasis on flags or six?

[345] Yes.

[346] You put the emphasis on flags.

[347] I'm so sorry.

[348] You're about to tell a great story about Tim Burton.

[349] Hold on, hold on, hold on.

[350] I love this.

[351] I like to find where we all differ, maybe regionally.

[352] Now, did you have a. Six Flags near you growing up, because we had Great America.

[353] So it was a big change for me to start having to say six flags, and they weren't all Great America.

[354] Right.

[355] My friend threw up in his hand there.

[356] In his hand, and he couldn't have caught it.

[357] That's too much.

[358] Because it was like a teen boy and was like with girls and trying to be cool.

[359] Oh, no. Definitely barfed in his hand.

[360] Okay, for the people who can't see you, you're kind of holding your hand up like you're going to cough.

[361] And it seems pretty tight.

[362] Had to throw it in the trash camp.

[363] Oh, so he puked in his hand, certainly it didn't catch it all.

[364] And then he chucked that in the trap.

[365] Yeah, yeah.

[366] And kind of like, well, nothing happened, nothing to see.

[367] Do you feel so lucky that you witnessed that?

[368] Of course.

[369] It's something that has stayed with me for 21 years.

[370] I mean, at that point, you'd be better popping your shoe off maybe.

[371] But maybe there wasn't time.

[372] No, that people would really notice if you had one shoe on.

[373] Right.

[374] This is an easy, fast thing.

[375] Maybe even guys, and I don't want to be crazy, but lift the collar of your shirt out and then just puke on your chest and then go to the bathroom and deal with it.

[376] I think about this all the time because I threw up on myself once.

[377] The first time I ever flew, JetBlue Mint.

[378] I was flying with my dog, so I couldn't take any Xanax, and I have a lot of flight anxiety.

[379] The minute we hit turbulence, and I started like, for some reason I thought the woman next to me had one leg.

[380] Oh, wow, okay.

[381] And I didn't want to ask her to move to go to the back.

[382] bathroom.

[383] Sure.

[384] But I had the plastic that it was around the blanket they gave me. And I threw up into that.

[385] Nobody knew.

[386] I totally got away with it.

[387] Easy, peasy, fresh and breezy.

[388] And then what you, then you just kind of made your way to the bathroom at some point and got rid of the bag.

[389] Yep.

[390] It was tasteful the way you handled it.

[391] It sounds like.

[392] And the woman next to me was really enjoying the food and drinks.

[393] So she was three sheets to the women.

[394] She definitely noticed.

[395] She missed the whole thing.

[396] And she did, she had two legs.

[397] how did you did you discover that there were actually there was a second leg when you went to the bathroom to get rid of the bag yes and when we left when we were getting off the plane i was like oh i wonder what why i thought that i was just so scared i get a lot of flight anxiety and you said i couldn't take xanax because this predated xanax or you just you forgot it was the first time i was flying with my dog and so it was like well i can't sleep i have to take care of this dog oh oh that makes sense now have Have you really deep dived into what that flight anxiety is about?

[398] Do you still have it?

[399] Or do you ruminate on what it is?

[400] I do.

[401] I mean, like there's nothing you can do.

[402] It feels very helpless.

[403] It's crazy that we go up into the sky.

[404] I would never scuba dive.

[405] It's a similar thing.

[406] Like, we're not meant to survive in these places.

[407] Right.

[408] We don't have wings and we don't have gills.

[409] So why are we there?

[410] Right.

[411] We cannot breathe underwater.

[412] Yeah, and we will die if we fall from the sky.

[413] Those are really solid points.

[414] But I guess for me, and this is what I want to know about for you, which is like, when I get on that plane, I've like entered into a binding contract.

[415] Like, I'm out of it.

[416] Once I get on, it's like, yeah, this is going to turn out however it turns out.

[417] I don't have the illusion of control.

[418] And so I don't really ruminate on it.

[419] Yeah, I think I've gotten better at like I try to talk myself through that and like, this is okay.

[420] That sound is normal.

[421] It's all normal.

[422] And people do this all the time.

[423] and it's safe.

[424] Because I have a hunch just talking to you for 10 minutes that you wouldn't be all that put out if you die.

[425] That's a compliment, by the way.

[426] No, no, I'm taking it that.

[427] I think about that often, actually, that I'm like, my biggest hope for me is that I would accept it in that moment and would go, it's okay.

[428] I've tried to live a good life.

[429] There's nothing I can do.

[430] Yeah.

[431] And, like, what would suck?

[432] Because this used to happen to me, there'd be turbulence on the airplane in the eight -year window.

[433] I couldn't get a job.

[434] And so as I would be thinking, oh, yeah, this thing's going down.

[435] I'm dead.

[436] Boy, you just didn't do anything.

[437] Like, you never got anything going.

[438] That used to kill me. But now when I'm in that situation, I'm like, you know, I gave it my all and things worked out pretty well.

[439] What more did you want?

[440] I feel gluttonous for mourning my own passing.

[441] You'd have someone to text to say, I love you.

[442] And that's a pretty nice thing.

[443] Yeah.

[444] Please laugh when you bring up my name.

[445] Don't mourn me. Yes.

[446] Like go out like a real.

[447] graceful champ too like boy the last thing she did was give us a gift just keep laughing i would love that i wrote an essay once because i was like obsessed with the idea of opposed funeral like a staged body oh let's talk about this and i was like well i want to be on a jet ski and like a windbreaker outfit performing a stunt because it was that i would be hoping that the people would laugh like it's sad to lose people, and so I hope that there would be some laughter, too.

[448] Okay, Ms. Strong, we're about to bond here pretty severely.

[449] First of all, was that motivated by becoming aware of the Puerto Rican funerals?

[450] Yes.

[451] Yeah.

[452] Absolutely, yes.

[453] The guy smoking and playing a video game on the motorcycle.

[454] Yes, yes, thank you.

[455] The guy on the motorcycle really gets me because I believe he died in a motorcycle accident.

[456] Yeah.

[457] And then they've put him on a motorcycle inside this funeral home, and everyone, I guess, is supposed, I don't know.

[458] You walk around them.

[459] You walk around, but if you're that person, like, a little short -sighted, that thing's going to remind you why he was untimely taken from this planet, right?

[460] But a lot of people, you go, you died doing what you love.

[461] Like the grizzly man, Timothy Treadwell.

[462] He loved those bears, and they get eaten by one was probably full circle.

[463] How else would you want to go if you were Timothy Treadwell?

[464] I love that you know his name's Timothy Treadwell.

[465] I, too, know his name's Timothy Treadwell.

[466] And I want to know what you're.

[467] reaction was watching Grizzly Man. I'm hoping it was the same as mine.

[468] Please tell me. Let's see.

[469] So first, I read the Vanity Fair article, and I had a whole different picture of who Timothy Treadwell was.

[470] More like a conservationist, somewhat qualified.

[471] Yes.

[472] Then I saw the movie and was like, oh, he's gay, and he doesn't fit in with people, and he just is more comfortable with animals.

[473] He just was someone who was not comfortable in society.

[474] And it was like, I don't know how much he knew about bears, but he chose to go live.

[475] there.

[476] I just know he wasn't comfortable with humans.

[477] And I love the way he yelled at Spirit.

[478] I mean, the names he gave them, Big Red Machine and Spirit the Fox.

[479] And he was like, Spirit, get over here, Spirit.

[480] That's my hat.

[481] Hey, Spirit.

[482] Yes, scolding them, but playfully flirting with them.

[483] Yes.

[484] Okay, so about 10 minutes into that movie, I turned to the person I was next to, and I said, I don't know how, but this person has some show business in them.

[485] And by God, it was revealed he had gone to L .A. to try to do some show business stuff.

[486] And then later I said, this also reeks of someone who's an attic who's trying to come up with some really radical geographic change that will fix their addiction.

[487] And then, yes, it was learned he was also an opiate addict.

[488] Right.

[489] Well, I think that's the show business and this internal conflict is why I'd say gay as a simple thing.

[490] But I mean, like, as a deeply closeted person who maybe has self -hatred involved and is, like, can't be straight because he's gay.

[491] Yes.

[492] So there was a lot of internal conflict and a not fitting in to society that's like, so you're going to go there?

[493] You're going to, like, this is dangerous.

[494] It turned out to be fatal as we now know.

[495] Sorry, I have a quick question about the Puerto Rican.

[496] What was the funerals?

[497] Yeah, yeah.

[498] Do they, like, make them look happy?

[499] Do they change their faces?

[500] No, I think it's like, they always have like sunglasses on.

[501] Yeah.

[502] And it's a serious experience.

[503] It actually is like more respectful than it seems.

[504] I mean, it's, it's, you do it for someone that you love.

[505] It's just not a thing that's in our culture.

[506] So it's wild looking.

[507] But for me, I would want an expression.

[508] Right, right?

[509] Like a big smile.

[510] I want to be going.

[511] Yeah.

[512] Monica, can we have you doing your eye roll?

[513] Sure.

[514] Oh, my God, that would be, if we could position your eyes up, like, at the apex eye roll.

[515] I'm sure I'll die that way anyway.

[516] You'd probably be rolling your eyes while you meet your...

[517] Oh, of course.

[518] Oh, here we go.

[519] Wouldn't it be this?

[520] Oh, I guess I'm getting shot.

[521] Oh, this is original.

[522] And then rolling your eyes.

[523] We just talked about the bears, and here I am eating by a bear.

[524] Wouldn't you know?

[525] So cliche.

[526] Okay, back to the funeral.

[527] So I similarly kind of have a pact with my best friend Aaron Weekly, which is if I am to die first, the funeral is going to be at some time.

[528] train tracks, and I'm going to be tied to a chair in a superhero outfit, and the train's going to be coming, and everyone's going to expect that the superhero can just get out of that chair.

[529] But, of course, this one can because he has passed.

[530] Everyone's just going to watch the train just blow through the superhero, and then everyone laugh uproariously, and that'll be how I do it.

[531] Well, here was my only advice for that is you would have to make sure the train is like a gag train, because you don't want anyone being hurt.

[532] You want to make sure everyone involved won't be traumatized.

[533] Yeah, no, it's just got to be like, oh, shit, that superhero didn't get out of the knot.

[534] Right.

[535] And it'd be like, this is what you want.

[536] We're doing what he wanted.

[537] And everyone has to know that.

[538] And then I think that's great.

[539] Yeah.

[540] Kids wouldn't be invited.

[541] Well, I don't know.

[542] You couldn't invite kids to that.

[543] You don't think so?

[544] No. It'd be tough to see, right.

[545] Yeah.

[546] Well.

[547] Here's another thing.

[548] Maybe you should fly somehow.

[549] You should be shot up into the sky.

[550] Okay, so you just stumbled into our pact, which is if, God willing, we die at the same time, big funeral in a field, and we get launched out of opposing cannons in superhero outfits, and then we just hit in the air and kind of just crumpled down to the ground.

[551] It's not, again, it's, what you're going for is that moment you think the superheroness is going to take over and it doesn't because it's just a corpse.

[552] That's where it gets fun.

[553] Right.

[554] Well, I think you should just be shot up into the sky.

[555] To infinity.

[556] Right.

[557] Wow, that's going to be expensive.

[558] But I like it a lot.

[559] That's at least hopeful.

[560] We need that.

[561] Yeah, I think that'd be nice.

[562] And then maybe a plane goes by in the background.

[563] It writes in the sky.

[564] It was a blast.

[565] Oh, that'd be nice.

[566] Have skywriting involved.

[567] Sure.

[568] All right.

[569] You go to Cal Arts and then you return to Chicago.

[570] So what I'm curious about is what is the college experience when you leave Chicago?

[571] Because I know coming from Michigan, I had the really wild ideas about what California was.

[572] But if you find yourself in Santa Clarita, it's not.

[573] to dig on Santa Clarita.

[574] It's just not very Los Angeles -y.

[575] It's very Midwest town in the desert.

[576] Absolutely.

[577] I stayed in L .A. after college for about seven months.

[578] I took a class of the groundlings.

[579] One of my teachers, Lou Paltor at Cal Arts, was like, you should do the groundlings.

[580] And I remember being so offended at first because I was like, I am a serious actor.

[581] I don't do comedy.

[582] Like if I do comedy, that's part of acting.

[583] I'm a comedic actress then.

[584] But then I wound up taking this class and I loved it.

[585] But I just really was like being confronted with what it really was to do show business in L .A. I was like, oh, I don't fit in anywhere here.

[586] I don't know how I would get in at all.

[587] And I loved my class of the groundlings.

[588] I love my teacher.

[589] And I was like, I'm going to move back to Chicago where there's so much improv and sketch and I can afford an apartment and my mom can buy me groceries every now and then.

[590] Yeah.

[591] And a lot of people at Cal Arts sort of, there were a lot of people that thought I was giving up then because I was leaving.

[592] Oh, the internet's back, Rob tells us.

[593] Okay, hold on, hold on, hold on.

[594] Jesus.

[595] I'm just going to right continue.

[596] Do you think that was Timothy Treadwell?

[597] Well, let me really think, I want to take that question seriously.

[598] I ask that as a serious thing.

[599] I hope so.

[600] I love to look for things like that.

[601] I think those are.

[602] I hope so.

[603] I hope that's his little way of saying like, you guys get me. Thank you for seeing me. Thank you for seeing me, and thanks for remembering.

[604] Like, I had a wild ride.

[605] Yeah.

[606] That's a nice moment.

[607] I'm glad we shared it together.

[608] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[609] What's up, guys?

[610] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[611] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[612] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[613] And all I mean just friends.

[614] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[615] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[616] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[617] We've all been there.

[618] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[619] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[620] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[621] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[622] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[623] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

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[626] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[627] Okay, so who is your teacher at the Groundlings?

[628] I had Tony Sepulveda.

[629] Oh, wonderful.

[630] What a great teacher to have.

[631] I loved him.

[632] I loved him.

[633] Okay, so what aspects, you said, I was looking at show business and I was like, this is not going to work for me. What aspects of it were scary or off -putting?

[634] Well, I remember, so we did our showcase at the end of the, And I was like, I loved my college experience.

[635] I loved doing shows.

[636] It was a very good humbling experience after I graduated, too.

[637] I felt like I was sort of built up and felt really good about myself.

[638] And then we did the showcase and they announced out loud all the people who had meetings.

[639] And I, like, had none.

[640] And I think I got one meeting and this woman told me, well, you're not thin enough or you're not big enough.

[641] You'll have to lose 20.

[642] It was just like, oh, okay, this is not at all.

[643] the world I thought it would be.

[644] She said you were a tweener, basically.

[645] You're a tweener.

[646] You're not this and you're not that.

[647] Right.

[648] And I was like, I'm not huge.

[649] I mean, I was like 150 pounds or something.

[650] And it was like, I don't know what I'm supposed to be.

[651] And I've never been that, like going in an audition, everybody's like a supermodel in L .A. And it was like, I've never looked like that and I never will.

[652] There's not a surgeon in the world who could do that.

[653] I was working at Greenblads and selling wine for $9 an hour, which I actually loved it.

[654] I loved the people I worked with.

[655] You must have seen so much cool shit at that place.

[656] So Greenblets is this little tiny sandwich slash liquor shop.

[657] Is it right next to the laugh factory?

[658] It's right next to Laugh Factory, yeah.

[659] On Sunset.

[660] So, yeah, so my understanding of that place is like old famous celebrities like wheel themselves down the hill drunk to get more wild turkey and then drive back up.

[661] So do you have like all kinds of cool sightings?

[662] Definitely.

[663] I mean, I remember when Sasha Baron Cohen came in once and I was like, I just want to go like stand.

[664] near his table and hear what he's saying.

[665] I remember Rufio from Hook was in once.

[666] Wonderful.

[667] Wanda Sykes was in a lot.

[668] David Allen Greer.

[669] Oh.

[670] John Marrera, I think, spent New Year's Eve with us, and I was working then at because we also had a boss who was no holidays off at Greenblatt's.

[671] And I was a new employee.

[672] Holidays don't exist.

[673] Not at Greenblats, baby.

[674] But I got to learn a lot about wine.

[675] And the people that I worked with were really just like cool.

[676] This guy, Oscar, like a jazz musician in Paris in the 60s or something and now was just like an old guy who loved wine and then just like cool people like that but again it was like well that's not acting and I'm only making $9 an hour and it was like I would see sort of these producers going out with young girls or something it was like I don't want to be an escort either in order to have to do this thing are we sure that I don't want to be an escort yes oh positive yeah you're 100 % on 100 % sure and I'm this is not a diss on sex work it was just like that's not what action has ever been for me well I wonder if this is really a common feeling because that was my exact feeling which was I'm not good looking enough to be the guy in the Budweiser commercial at the beach right and I'm not quote character looking enough to be like the employee that's getting shit on in the insurance commercial like I felt like I felt exactly like you're saying right and nobody gives a shit that I did a great Lady Macbeth scene a year ago at Cal Arts.

[677] Yeah, they just don't care.

[678] So when you go back to Chicago, is it just a great feeling?

[679] Like, oh my God, I'm home and I'm getting to do this thing I just discovered I love?

[680] Or are you thinking I got to get to either coast here in a hurry?

[681] No, I kind of was like, let's see, because I had never really studied improv like that.

[682] So I really dove into that and absolutely loved it.

[683] And then I was living in a giant apartment compared to all the other apartments I've ever had for like $700 a month.

[684] I loved it.

[685] And I was taking classes at Second City.

[686] Then I took classes at I -O.

[687] That led to, I worked on a cruise ship.

[688] That was my first, like, paid comedy job.

[689] Oh, believe me, I got 85 questions about the cruise ship.

[690] Wait, boom?

[691] No, I didn't do boom.

[692] I never auditioned for boom.

[693] It was the Second City had a contract with Norwegian cruise lines.

[694] Got it.

[695] Yeah.

[696] I mean, we're there.

[697] Tell me, you're on the, ship for four months.

[698] The first three weeks are awesome and the rest is...

[699] The first two months, I would say, very exciting, like a vacation.

[700] And then it starts to feel like a little bit like prison.

[701] You can't leave.

[702] You can't have a night on land.

[703] And we're only going to like New York, Florida to this little town where there's two strip clubs and like a Christian bookstore and this restaurant called dogs that I would always go to.

[704] And Walmart.

[705] So we'd get all our shopping done.

[706] And then like NASA, which once you've done NASA twice that day, that's what you can, yeah.

[707] And then the Norwegian private island.

[708] And then back.

[709] So it was like, then I'm stuck there.

[710] And I remember one time I passed, blew off when we got to Florida.

[711] And then they wouldn't let me leave.

[712] So then I was truly trapped on this boat.

[713] And you're in these tiny rooms.

[714] My friend Kylie and I shared a room.

[715] and they wouldn't give us two beds.

[716] Because they kept saying the room is only birthed for one.

[717] Which is a ship term for everyone birthed.

[718] But we were like, well, then why are there two of us in here?

[719] Right, right.

[720] Make up your mind.

[721] Is this a room for a single or not?

[722] But amazing people watching, I will say.

[723] Okay, so some of my questions, did you ever have a romantic encounter with one of the passengers, even though that's supposed to be forbidden?

[724] I did not, but I was dating someone in Chicago at the time.

[725] Okay.

[726] And again, loyalty, right?

[727] Right.

[728] Did any of your coworkers have romantically?

[729] Oh, you're shaking.

[730] Oh, yeah.

[731] So for my gay male friends, it was the gym showers or whatever that was.

[732] Oh, right, sure.

[733] There's no cameras there.

[734] Yeah.

[735] So I didn't ask too many questions.

[736] Right.

[737] Okay.

[738] My second question is, did you gain like 600 pounds?

[739] Absolutely, I did.

[740] Yeah, yeah.

[741] It's not possible, right?

[742] You're basically on a floating sizzler.

[743] Yes.

[744] And we all go in like, I am going to work out every day and I'm going to write and get my shit together.

[745] And it was like in the crew bar, a bottle of wine was a dollar.

[746] I was just going to say, you end up just partying, right?

[747] You're up every morning hung over and you're with a very international crowd in the crew.

[748] So there was like there was an independence day of some country every week.

[749] So it was like, yes, let's go to Indonesian Independence Day.

[750] And then last question, because I observed this on a very long cruise.

[751] I took with my mom, there were certain rich passengers that they would like, this was a 21 -day cruise.

[752] This rich passenger had, like, weeded out eight crew members he liked, and then he rented some palatial place in Bali and invited them all.

[753] And they all spent the day with this passenger at his, like, really nice.

[754] I thought that was so bizarre.

[755] Did that kind of thing occur regularly?

[756] No, and I think we did not have that kind of clientele.

[757] Okay.

[758] Okay.

[759] That makes sense.

[760] I saw a lot of New Jersey, just a lot of good accents.

[761] I remember there was like hearing these different passengers pronounce Tsar's Palace every week.

[762] That was one of the restaurants that you don't pay extra.

[763] And so hearing the different, like one guy said like Tars Place.

[764] I remember like being in the elevator once and this guy's like, babe, what do you want to do for dinner?

[765] I don't know.

[766] I just want coffee.

[767] We're going to Tazaz then.

[768] That's Tazars.

[769] We're going to Tazazzoz.

[770] and best coffee We're doing Tezahs.

[771] You want coffee?

[772] We're doing Tezaz.

[773] Yeah.

[774] She could say anything.

[775] I want to take a nap.

[776] Great.

[777] Then you'll have your nap at Tezaz.

[778] I was blown away by a lot of these people.

[779] There was one.

[780] We did like Jokers Wild night, which means the audience tells jokes.

[781] Uh -oh.

[782] It was the nastiest things I've ever heard in my life.

[783] I remember walking in and there's like a man standing there and he's in linen pants.

[784] It starts out.

[785] Like we walked in right as he's going like, so I'm fucking a rule night.

[786] And we were like, what?

[787] And the jokes about necrophilia.

[788] I don't remember exactly the punchline.

[789] Wow.

[790] Oh, God.

[791] But whoever he was fucking in that moment is dead.

[792] That was his joke.

[793] And then this one girl who was very shy, I was like, what's the difference between oral sex and anal sex?

[794] One makes your whole night and one makes your whole week.

[795] That's a good joke.

[796] They're wild.

[797] One makes your whole night.

[798] I want to make sure a whole week.

[799] And what she's done is she's played with the, what's the name?

[800] And it's not a synonym, antonym, W -H -O -L -E, and H -O -L -E.

[801] A hominem.

[802] Yeah.

[803] Great work, a hominid.

[804] A hominem.

[805] Really?

[806] Oh, hominim.

[807] Right?

[808] Yeah, I think you're right.

[809] Really good job.

[810] Oh, thank you.

[811] Between herpetologists and hominem.

[812] We're getting these big H -words down.

[813] H -words.

[814] Okay.

[815] So I guess my question is, how do you go from I -O?

[816] and Second City, and you clearly you get an audition for SNL?

[817] Yeah, so SNL does their rounds.

[818] They come to Chicago every year, and Sharna, who did run I -O, told me to audition.

[819] And I'd never done, like, impressions.

[820] I hadn't done a lot of solo work.

[821] But I, so I took a workshop with this guy, Matt Miller, who has a great workshop.

[822] You put yourself on tape and you watch in a group, and you sort of see what works and does it.

[823] Oh, wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on.

[824] What's that experience like?

[825] I think it was great because I wound up my audition for S &L.

[826] All of the bits I did were very short because what happened, you see how much people really love this impression they're doing so they give it a minute and a half or something.

[827] You're like, okay, this is self -indulgent at that point, especially for people who know comedy and see it all the time and see people doing impressions all the time, which is like the S &L group coming in.

[828] And then when you're sitting in a room and watching it, you see what people are fake laughing at and real laughing at.

[829] So it's a very honest reaction.

[830] Yeah, I don't know why I bumped on that because I guess that's what you do.

[831] Like I was in the growlings and yeah, you put your sketch up on Wednesday night and then you find out and then you move on.

[832] It's either, oh, that was funny to me, but no one else.

[833] It stayed that way for me. I mean, that's how S &L has always been for me. Like, oh, did you not like that?

[834] Oh, you liked that?

[835] Okay.

[836] Who knew?

[837] Yeah, thank you.

[838] So I want to ask you if it's the same as it was for me, which is like, I have no fucking barometer.

[839] The sketches I wrote that one person laughed versus everyone laughed, they were equal in my mind.

[840] Exactly.

[841] Me too.

[842] Yeah.

[843] I think they're all great.

[844] And the audience thinks 10 % are great.

[845] Right.

[846] And it's like there's no rhyme or reason because sometimes I would just hear a word that I think would be funny pronounced this way by this character many, many times.

[847] And like sometimes that worked and sometimes the word wasn't funny to anyone else but me. Yes, exactly.

[848] I'm always the Venn diagram.

[849] It's like that's the, that's the, the holy grail like where do I overlap with the audience right i certainly don't know and did you find too like the people that generally it's a cliche to say like a comedian's comedian but it was so true like there were people in the growlings that were on such another level that when they wrote sketches all of us in it loved it like we couldn't get enough of it and then you put it in front of america and you're like oh right this is so esoteric like you got to know nine comedy languages before this is funny.

[850] Tim Robinson is in the top three funniest people in the world.

[851] And it was like he would kill us at the table every week.

[852] I mean, loved him.

[853] And then it was like for some reason it wasn't working on SNL, which was nuts.

[854] And so it's like, then you see him on his show now.

[855] I cry laughing, watching that show.

[856] For people who have not watched, I think you should leave.

[857] It's season two is out now.

[858] And I put him in like the Will Forte category where it's like, oh, well, I can't do.

[859] whatever it is they're doing.

[860] I don't know how.

[861] I mean, he's always been so funny.

[862] He has always been in my top three funniest.

[863] Sam Richardson, too.

[864] The two of them are unbelievable.

[865] And when they're together, and are they both from Michigan, maybe?

[866] Detroit, yeah.

[867] I know.

[868] I reached out to Robinson.

[869] He didn't seem very interested in connecting, but that's okay.

[870] You've got to work on him a little bit.

[871] He's got a little Midwest -y, like, tough Detroit thing.

[872] You know, you got to.

[873] Yeah.

[874] We need their fighter become best friends.

[875] It would be glorious.

[876] Yeah.

[877] Okay, so I read your piece in Vulture.

[878] Before we even talk about what it is, it's just incredibly well written.

[879] And I wonder how long you've been writing.

[880] I've certainly, like, written forever.

[881] But the essay was a one -time thing.

[882] But doing the book, it was the first time I'd written kind of every day for a period of time.

[883] But I think for me, there's so much self -doubt, which I think, certainly I think I know a lot of women who feel the same, we're like, I hear people all the time being like, well, I shouldn't take that job because I don't know how to do it.

[884] And I think writing was like, well, I've never studied it.

[885] So I'm not good at this.

[886] I don't want to share it.

[887] And so for me, I'm not going to be the best writer, anyone will read.

[888] And that's okay.

[889] But what I can be is honest.

[890] And then in this especially in trying to process this grief that I was dealing with, I've always loved magical realism books.

[891] And those have been the ones that have stayed with me. And so it was kind of like, how do I find any kind of magic in this?

[892] And that's the only way I'll understand what I'm going through.

[893] And that's the only way I'll be able to process it.

[894] Can you give me an example of a magical realism book that was popular?

[895] I don't know that genre.

[896] Sure.

[897] Well, I mean, the biggest one and the one I loved so much is 100 years of solitude.

[898] Okay.

[899] Did you read that, Moni?

[900] I didn't.

[901] I'm embarrassed to say.

[902] It's a great one.

[903] And then I think, I don't even know if this is necessarily categorized as magical realism, but it is very much to me. Sherman Alexes, Lone Ranger and Tonto, Fist Fight in Heaven.

[904] Oh, I love that title, but I have not read it.

[905] It's telling stories to sort of deal with, number one, our memories are funny anyway, right?

[906] Nobody remembers things the right way.

[907] Oh, we think we do, but we have no clue.

[908] Right.

[909] And then someone will go, that's weird that you remember it.

[910] So it's already like, we're already making it into a story.

[911] Sort of like making your stories into a fairy tale.

[912] trying to understand why things happen, which I don't really believe like everything happens for a reason.

[913] And so it's really a way to kind of answer that for yourself.

[914] Even saying like, oh, that was Timothy Treadwell.

[915] I like enjoy things like that and wanted to give myself those things and not call them coincidences because it felt good and it felt like a gift.

[916] You just said something, though, that I find a little bit intriguing.

[917] You're right.

[918] Our memories are these stories that we've written in a manner that we remember them.

[919] and they're highly flawed.

[920] And that's fine.

[921] That's who cares.

[922] And then, yeah, finding meaning is really another way to look at it is like putting it in a story that I can buy into and hold on to and carry.

[923] Right.

[924] I learn and understand things through story.

[925] This is a weird example to use.

[926] When I love sports, for example, I have to have an emotional backstory.

[927] And it's like, then I can get into this game.

[928] That's just sort of how I learn and understand the world.

[929] I also want to relate a little bit in that, similarly, so my father died, and I really didn't know what I was taking away from it.

[930] What I knew was I was confused by the experience, and I thought I was supposed to have emotions that were not coming.

[931] And ultimately, like, three months after the fact, I decided, like, I'm just going to write down the experience of getting him across the finish line.

[932] Like, what was that like from finding out of cancer to the end?

[933] And in doing that, I guess, yeah, like, I found a story.

[934] I found that there had been this arc in our relationship.

[935] And then somehow by writing that thing, when I read it, all of a sudden I started crying.

[936] I was like, oh, that's what it is.

[937] I couldn't have articulated it, but now that I've written about it, now I kind of understand what it is for me. Absolutely.

[938] I recorded the audiobook, which was hugely, like, emotional, cathartic thing.

[939] I got to stop you.

[940] I should have done this an hour ago.

[941] But we're talking about your cousin Owen, who you love, died very, very young of brain cancer.

[942] Yes, glioblastoma.

[943] And I say it's funny to say it feels sudden when someone dies of brain cancer, but he had been living with it for a year and a half almost.

[944] And I was like, Owen's going to be glioblastoma.

[945] He will.

[946] I absolutely, he believed it.

[947] I believed it.

[948] And I still, in the end, I'm like, well, cancer never beat him because it never got his spirit.

[949] And then I think trying to understand this heavy, heavy, like why this loss, because I've lost people before.

[950] and it's always really hard, but why is this one hitting me in this way?

[951] And then even trying to understand how did Owen live so well with, like he told his dad, it's my favorite Owen quote.

[952] He's like, you know, well, mine is the brain cancer.

[953] This has been the best year of my life.

[954] He fell in love with his girlfriend, Stasia, and he was in a band, and they were making music, and it's like he'd hit every dance floor and he went to basketball games.

[955] And he's like, the guy who wore hats because he had his scars And so it'd be like, well, how do I hide my skin?

[956] Let's wear fun hats then.

[957] And it was just, he's so positive and so brave.

[958] And so in trying to find that out, he was a very good guide for me then to also go through this past year.

[959] We all had with COVID.

[960] I think, like, you have brain cancer.

[961] You don't know it's very unpredictable and cruel.

[962] And there's no way to understand any of it.

[963] And I felt like COVID was unpredictable.

[964] And the world has changed.

[965] The world's upside down.

[966] Yeah, your future is really, really unknown.

[967] Right, right.

[968] But in so I'm trying to like find out how he was able to do that.

[969] It was a good guide for me going through.

[970] And again, and then like when I would sit down and write, I got to discover I would have these things, these connections that felt like that's so weird that that happened.

[971] I write about a couple in the book and it's like, here's a crazy thing that happened.

[972] So we lost Hal Wilner of COVID, who's a longtime music producer at S &L, one of the most unique, bizarre, strangest man on the planet and so cool, worked with everybody, knew everybody.

[973] So on Tuesday night, I was in quarantine with my friends, Matt and Kevin.

[974] We were like listening to music, getting high.

[975] I was playing DJ.

[976] I was like, I'm going to play one more song and I want to find like the perfect song.

[977] And I'm going through my list and I was like, here it is.

[978] And I played Perfect Day by Lou Reed, which I love.

[979] And they'd never heard of it.

[980] And I was like, you haven't heard of Perfect Day by Lou Reed?

[981] And I'm singing it to them the next day.

[982] I found out Hal had passed away that night.

[983] And then on Saturday, that first S &L at home, they did a tribute to Hal, and I'm watching it, like the audience is watching it, don't know what the show is because I wasn't quite ready to be there, and they sang Perfect Day.

[984] No way.

[985] Yeah, and it was like, I can't believe it, that I was just singing this, the night that Hal was blasting into outer space himself, you know?

[986] Yeah, yeah.

[987] And it was like, things like that that I was like, I want to feel.

[988] feel those things as gifts and like they're not going to be just coincidences because I take comfort in them and like find some comfort in them.

[989] So when you observe these for lack of a better word coincidences, do you, I feel like there should be a different plural for coincidences.

[990] I started thinking of them as like constellations like connecting these stars.

[991] Yeah.

[992] When you observe those, do you then attempt to explain it like, oh, there's something metaphysical or there is a god?

[993] You go there Or do you just take it on the surface of like, that's insane.

[994] I played that song.

[995] I mean, that was the tribute song.

[996] To me, that's the story that I can understand.

[997] And it means God, whatever you believe in, you can go, this is something other.

[998] This feels special.

[999] And this feels, again, like, and it's giving me some kind of peace and comfort.

[1000] It's giving me a little bit of magic.

[1001] And, like, we all need a little bit of magic to process these things.

[1002] So I got to do that audio book recording.

[1003] And again, I recorded in Rinebeck.

[1004] There was a lot of weird connections there.

[1005] The guy who ran the studio, after I'd read the book, I came out, and he was kind of crying, and he had lost his parents to COVID, or sort of just around COVID in October.

[1006] And he was like, you know what?

[1007] I think I haven't been grieving them.

[1008] He's like, I just heard you, and he said, this is going to help so many people who maybe haven't been grieving and don't realize it.

[1009] You don't even know, like, what they've been doing.

[1010] Is it hard for you to grieve?

[1011] And if so, do you have a theory on why it is?

[1012] Yeah.

[1013] I mean, I think there's like a million reasons why it's hard to grieve anything.

[1014] And it's varied for each loss.

[1015] There's different kinds of losses.

[1016] And so I think in our body, it's just like it's overwhelming.

[1017] I always am like, I feel like I'm going to drown in the swamp of sorrow like from a never ending story.

[1018] I have two things.

[1019] One is like my role has conventionally been to make light of everything.

[1020] Like I'm the middle child and I'm good at making the job.

[1021] joke when someone just got punched.

[1022] So part of me is like, oh, I got to go into that mode, but it's interesting because it's just me. Who am I breaking the tension for myself?

[1023] That's interesting.

[1024] That's one issue.

[1025] And then I think the other issues I literally have a hard time comprehending it.

[1026] Definitely.

[1027] Who can really comprehend?

[1028] It's too big.

[1029] But I also think that levity and laughter can be a part of grief.

[1030] And it is like, we love a person to make a joke.

[1031] it was like important to me to try to say something funny -ish at my cousin's service because I know that he would have wanted that and his friend came up to me after and said thank you for making me laugh and he said then I could cry like he was so serious so everybody was so stoic it's like once you laugh then you're like ha ha you know and then you can cry yeah you need the people to make you laugh yeah I was back in Michigan and I was like at my dad's bedside and I asked a nurse God bless her.

[1032] She took a picture of me holding a pillow over my dad's face while he was sleeping, and I sent it to my brother and said, just wrapping things up in Michigan.

[1033] And yeah, I bet he and I remember that part of it more than any aspect is like, what a dark joke to send him.

[1034] But perfect.

[1035] And like, I think that's like so appreciated and needed.

[1036] Yeah, I think there's so many things and I don't think I've explored all of them, but there's also some kind of active rebellion in it too.

[1037] I guess maybe it's like a clutch of control for me. This whole thing's so out of control, but I can take these little elements and weave it into this other thing.

[1038] And then I'm pretty sure my brother's going to laugh hard.

[1039] So I'll have some control over that.

[1040] I don't know what it is, but there's a lot going on there.

[1041] Well, then it's so you're feeling like you can be helpful in a situation where you feel like there's absolutely nothing you can fucking do.

[1042] And so here's one thing you can do is to make your brother laugh.

[1043] Yeah.

[1044] And it gives you some kind of power then, yeah.

[1045] One of the specific things I'll say about your writing that's interesting is that you can play with tenses really well.

[1046] I find that hard.

[1047] So it's like even in the Vulture article, it starts out as a past tense thing.

[1048] But then all of a sudden in its present tense and you're kind of walking through a certain day.

[1049] And that's kind of unique and I like it.

[1050] And I don't even know if you're aware of it.

[1051] No, I definitely am aware of it.

[1052] And I think I certainly told my editor and everything, like if it's ever too confusing.

[1053] But that's sort of how I, especially for like when you are writing for a. therapy, just putting yourself back there and trying to experience it as it's happening.

[1054] And then I think for myself, it was, I felt a bit like I was time traveling and like time changed during COVID.

[1055] Time changed when I lost my cousin.

[1056] Time changes.

[1057] And there's no set timeline.

[1058] And that's why it's still like, even when we process things, we're like, well, I have to move forward.

[1059] You're kind of like, what is it even to move forward?

[1060] Right.

[1061] When the timeline's all fucked up.

[1062] When the world stops, what are we moving forward to?

[1063] Right.

[1064] It gets into like some huge existential questions, which is like, is there a purpose to life other than just living this day?

[1065] Like my whole identity and what I feel safe in knowing is I've got all these things planned and this is going to happen.

[1066] And that gives me some illusion of like steering this crazy ship.

[1067] But it really just daily breathing is the whole goal.

[1068] That's it pretty much.

[1069] And finding what it is for you.

[1070] I've really been lucky with the people in my life.

[1071] And it's a chance to say, like, I love you and thank you and expressing gratitude for kindness that they've shown me, which I don't think we do enough, maybe, or I don't do enough.

[1072] And so it's a chance to do that.

[1073] And so the book is, this will all be over soon.

[1074] And then paralleling you processing Owen and going through the experience of Owen, you're also falling in love.

[1075] Yes.

[1076] And then so you're feeling conflicted, right, a little bit?

[1077] Like, oh, this joyous thing's happening.

[1078] Do I feel guilty if I'm allowing the joy into my life?

[1079] I had been single for so long and I think I've been very closed off and I had to be more open.

[1080] And I think like COVID and Owen's grief, again, for me, for being a person who's like, well, I have to make the jokes.

[1081] I felt like my edges softened a little bit.

[1082] And like, maybe I don't have to make the joke.

[1083] I can just cry and go, well, this is where I am right now.

[1084] and I'll laugh about it in a second.

[1085] But getting rid of a lot of my harder edges.

[1086] And I think that opened me up a little bit more.

[1087] And I always felt like if I'm honoring Owen, the thing I can do best to honor him is to like let myself be open and let myself enjoy this.

[1088] Yeah.

[1089] What I was going to say is as you were saying that I realized like another layer of it even maybe for me at least I'm guilty of is like also for me to be grieving would be a weakness.

[1090] And, like, where I'm from, it's all about not being weak.

[1091] So me being able to laugh in the face of it maybe is some false display of bravery.

[1092] I don't know.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] That's a curious part.

[1095] Totally.

[1096] And you find out, you're like, I don't know how helpful that's been in my life.

[1097] It's not that it's a bad thing.

[1098] It has protected you a lot.

[1099] It's gotten you where you are.

[1100] But then some, like, giving yourself a chance to go, what if today I'm not okay?

[1101] And does this one thing I think is attractive about me that I'm fun and upbeat?

[1102] maybe that has to hit pause and I'll have to trust everyone will still love me through the, yeah.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] And I think like I found they do.

[1105] And I remember, I don't know how this is, I'm tying it to this.

[1106] But I remember I had a therapist once.

[1107] It was talking about quitting smoking.

[1108] And I smoked for a long time when I was like 13 to 25, then quit cold turkey.

[1109] But it was like, you thank the cigarettes.

[1110] They did what they did for your life.

[1111] They helped you.

[1112] And then you throw them out.

[1113] So you're not going, this is terrible.

[1114] It's going.

[1115] It's going.

[1116] thank you, you've gotten me here, and I don't need you anymore.

[1117] I think, like, being somebody who feels things doesn't mean you can't also be a very funny, sharp person.

[1118] Well, yeah, I think it's learning to distinguish when you're doing it for self -preservation and when you're doing it because you're in a great mood who want to share your mood, which is hard to know at all times.

[1119] Right.

[1120] Well, it's hard to know, especially if you're not asking yourself and checking in and giving yourself that permission.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] So what's the long as you've been with someone?

[1123] prior to the relationship in the book?

[1124] It was seven years, but it was not...

[1125] Oh, okay.

[1126] I write about it a bit in there, but it was not good.

[1127] I mean, it was a really tough relationship, and it was hard to...

[1128] That's like, that's what taught me about love.

[1129] It was kind of very chaotic and kind of dangerous.

[1130] Was it an addict or something?

[1131] A lot of alcohol involved, and just, yeah, it was not good.

[1132] But that was my first love.

[1133] But it's also like, I don't even know how to write about that.

[1134] And I've not let myself think about that, because I can't, say it was wonderful only and I can't say it was awful only.

[1135] It's just hard to talk about things like that.

[1136] You're so right.

[1137] There seems to be like some pressure to some or past relationship up as either great or destructive.

[1138] Right.

[1139] Like it seems like the options are binary.

[1140] Even in something as complicated as seven years.

[1141] I loved this person so much.

[1142] I felt so loved.

[1143] It was also one of the worst situations I've ever been in.

[1144] Right.

[1145] Oh, yeah, can it be all those things at once?

[1146] yeah now it's just i have to think of us as like two people on a cloud and every now and then we can pass and wave but like we can't get any closer than that okay but did you have any fear of like fuck i'm gonna write this book about this person i fell in love with and then heaven forbid we have parted ways by the time it comes out and i'm gonna be on a publicity tour talking about oh yeah well and you know it didn't work out absolutely i mean but i think it was also writing a book that's this personal, you have a fear about all of this that's like, well, I'm going to eat my words later with this, but it's kind of like, fuck it.

[1147] And again, that's like where I have to go to an own thing, be like, fuck it, says, write about it.

[1148] You got to have this, enjoy it.

[1149] And even in writing, I always want to qualify everything.

[1150] Well, how can I say it's a great year if this happened in this?

[1151] And it was like, I'm going to try to qualify things less and try to stop apologizing before saying something.

[1152] And I think that's part of it.

[1153] It's sort of like, maybe we will break up and people do break up but i really enjoyed it and why not right about it i got to have yes like every thought i have and certainly any thought i commit to paper i play out every dickhead i ever grew up with shitting on it and explaining why it was either self -indulgent or ego maniacal or attention seeking and i got to have an answer to all those people these fucking characters from my childhood i've got i've got to answer to them Yes.

[1154] And so I think about people online and I'm like, someone's going to say this.

[1155] And it's always like, because they're voices in your own head too.

[1156] And I have been great at self -hatred and self -doubt my whole life.

[1157] And so the best therapists I have are very gentle with me because I have to be nicer to myself.

[1158] And it was sort of like, fuck them.

[1159] I have Owen at the heart of this book.

[1160] I'm being as honest as I can.

[1161] I just can't worry about those people today.

[1162] We just lost 600 ,000 people.

[1163] I lost.

[1164] I lost.

[1165] this super important person, Hal, Don't.

[1166] And it was kind of like, I can't care about that one person not connecting with this.

[1167] And if that's what you see in somebody telling you their heart, if that's how you respond, I don't know that I want to know you.

[1168] Yeah, I'm hard on myself.

[1169] I give all those voices a say in my head.

[1170] And then the part I'd like to admit less is I know those things because I've also said those things about a million people.

[1171] I've been jealous of people who wear their heart on their sleeve.

[1172] I've been jealous of people who don't seem embarrassed.

[1173] by weakness.

[1174] I've been jealous and judgmental.

[1175] So I've done it.

[1176] So I kind of know what's coming because I'm also guilty of doing it in my moments of insecurity.

[1177] Well, that's why you can see what it is, though, because you have done it.

[1178] And it's like we're all human.

[1179] I don't think that makes you a terrible human.

[1180] I see where it's coming from.

[1181] And I'm not there anymore.

[1182] And they are.

[1183] Yeah.

[1184] And so the whole endeavor is really positive because like by doing it personally, the agreement I think I have to make my head is.

[1185] And I have to stop doing that to.

[1186] other people.

[1187] Like, I'm going to walk out and be honest and be vulnerable.

[1188] And I'm going to pray people don't skewer me. And then what I'm going to do is I'm going to stop skewering people.

[1189] And I want to join the team that's just like, yeah, we're weak sometimes.

[1190] We're scared sometimes.

[1191] We're blah, blah, blah.

[1192] I'm going to join that club now.

[1193] And you don't have to, like, nobody's a perfect person.

[1194] I think we could all still, we should be able to make fun of things when we want to with our friends.

[1195] But it was so I talk about, like, I want to be on the team of like Owen and his oncologist, Dr. Henry, It's like we can cure brain cancer.

[1196] But it's like that's the team I want to be on.

[1197] I want to be on that team.

[1198] And I want to believe in those things.

[1199] And I think just going back on what you were saying, one of my favorite things my therapist said to me that's like was life changing was like sometimes the mean things that you've said about yourself, the minute you hear someone else say them or you see it written down, you're like, oh my God, it's a fact then.

[1200] It's fact.

[1201] And she was just like, your thoughts aren't facts.

[1202] They're just thoughts.

[1203] You can just take it out.

[1204] Like, you don't take that out.

[1205] And it was like, yes, my thoughts aren't facts.

[1206] This isn't the truth of the world that I'm loser whose career is over, who will never do, whatever.

[1207] Yes, yes, all the good stuff.

[1208] Yeah, anything you've ever thought bad and you've ever seen written about you.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] Which somehow is like, gets so much more attention in my brain than anything nice anyone's ever said.

[1211] Of course.

[1212] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1213] So one little aspect of it that interested me greatly, because I saw this 60 Minutes piece on it like three years ago, which is this really novel approach to curing brain tumors because the problem with brain tumors is your body doesn't recognize it as cancer.

[1214] So it's not sending the immune system to it.

[1215] So they inject polio.

[1216] That's what Henry does.

[1217] Yeah, and they inject all kinds of different diseases into the tumor.

[1218] And then all of a sudden the body recognizes that virus.

[1219] And at least on the 60 Minutes thing, sometimes these people's entire tumor would be destroyed within like a few days.

[1220] And it was so encouraging.

[1221] But he went through that and that didn't work.

[1222] Well, I mean, the thing is it was working.

[1223] And it's sort of, you just don't know.

[1224] I mean, cancer, there's no rules.

[1225] It's just unpredictable.

[1226] Henry at Duke, Dr. Henry Friedman, I love him.

[1227] We have a text thread now and I get all my news from him.

[1228] He sends like 18 news articles a day with a little editorial.

[1229] Oncologists are wild.

[1230] I don't know if you knew this.

[1231] But he's brilliant and is studying polio.

[1232] But it's like Owen's tumors were shrinking.

[1233] It was crazy.

[1234] And Henry was the first doctor that used the word cure to Owen.

[1235] And it was like, and what that did for Owen and for us was huge.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] And it's like, and doctors don't blow smoke up your act.

[1238] Like they're not known for like being overly optimistic.

[1239] Right.

[1240] They weigh on the negative side.

[1241] Henry, this is what he does, specifically polio therapy.

[1242] I mean, Owen lived for a long time.

[1243] time with GBM, if you look at the statistics.

[1244] Right.

[1245] And so they just came back or they had spread or?

[1246] Yeah, and it was like, I'm not scientifically right here.

[1247] In my head, the way I thought it was like, it just, they grew back.

[1248] And if you don't get them soon enough, it's just like almost then a timing thing.

[1249] And you're just like, fuck.

[1250] Yeah, more water's coming in the boat than you can bail out.

[1251] Right.

[1252] And if you were like, I took a week vacation and then came back and you were like, oh, God, now look at all the water.

[1253] Now the boat's sinking.

[1254] It's just like if you miss that time period.

[1255] But it really like doing well for a while.

[1256] And I think so much because of the polio therapy.

[1257] Yeah.

[1258] And so I'm like, keep going, Henry.

[1259] And like a lot of people have reached out to me and they've been treated by Henry.

[1260] And like there's success stories too.

[1261] And that's the other thing to remember with cancer.

[1262] It's unpredictable in both ways.

[1263] Did you wrestle at all?

[1264] Like I ended up telling the story of my stepfather passing a couple years ago on here.

[1265] And there was a little voice in my head that said, hmm, my stepdad's sister probably feels more entitled to share that story than I do.

[1266] Absolutely.

[1267] It's not only my loss.

[1268] There's so many people who are more entitled to this loss.

[1269] But my family is so wonderful.

[1270] And my aunt and uncle read the book and sent me really beautiful emails.

[1271] And my uncle said, like, I want to keep this on my desk next to my bed every night.

[1272] It was like just a way to share.

[1273] And so I think it really didn't want to feel.

[1274] feel like I was telling anyone else's story or exploiting anybody, like the last thing I wanted to do.

[1275] And there's a very scary phone call with legal when you write a memoir.

[1276] And they go to all the points in the book where it's like someone else's things.

[1277] And you're like, oh, my God.

[1278] It feels like I've written like TMZ article now.

[1279] Yeah, yeah.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] And then you have to call and ask somebody about this one thing without the rest of the book in context.

[1282] Then people, of course, get defensive and like, oh, no, wait.

[1283] I don't want you to say that.

[1284] Why are you telling the I shit my pants?

[1285] story in your book about your cousin.

[1286] Right.

[1287] And I'm like, well, I was saying about how I ship my pants every day.

[1288] So this was like the last thing I want from this book is to hurt anybody.

[1289] So I definitely went to everybody a couple of times and made sure.

[1290] And even my friend Liz, who was my best friend from like seventh grade to 10th grade thereabouts, she passed away a couple years to go.

[1291] And it was heroin.

[1292] And I had no idea she was even using.

[1293] Well, it was probably fentanyl, really.

[1294] It was fentanyl, right.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] And she'd been in and out of rehab and working out, but I was like, is this even okay to, I don't know, are you allowed to say what it is?

[1297] Is it rude to say that?

[1298] Because I also don't, I never wanted her to be defined by heroin.

[1299] Right, right, right.

[1300] She's a whole human being who is very funny, who was my best friend, and we were joined at the hip, and she's a great singer.

[1301] So then I'm, like, texting her sister, can I say Liz?

[1302] Can I say heroin?

[1303] And Laura was like, I'm so glad you wrote me. And she said, when I heard you were writing this, fuck she said lizzie better be in there and so it was actually like a really good experience to reach out and to talk about and ask you're right that we do this very weird thing with people which is one of your close connections in your life died of heroin and one died of cancer and so it's like if you got hit by a bus at the end of your life that wouldn't all inform anyone about your life it just be like you got hit by a bus right when you say someone died of heroin.

[1304] Like all of a sudden, that's a tragedy.

[1305] I think I now know something about that person, which you don't.

[1306] Right.

[1307] Yeah, it's a very bizarre, like how we kind of reverse engineer based on this indiscriminate end.

[1308] And it's sort of like, well, then that person deserved it more than this person.

[1309] Yes, they were selfish.

[1310] They were this.

[1311] I just really didn't want that.

[1312] But then I realized with cancer, with COVID, with heroin, it's like these are all such American experiences.

[1313] I'm one of a billion who has lost someone of any of these things.

[1314] So I felt like it was okay in that spirit, that I'm like, unfortunately, this is how we lose a lot of people.

[1315] And so I hoped then it was like this is an American experience.

[1316] Totally.

[1317] Well, I think the number in the last 10 years of opiate odies is in excess of the COVID deaths.

[1318] So epidemic.

[1319] Across all different types of people.

[1320] So socioeconomic.

[1321] Yeah.

[1322] Yeah.

[1323] And it's the fentanyl.

[1324] I mean, we didn't even have her body like that's a service where her body wasn't there because like my friend was evidence yeah well i got to say the only moment i ever had watching trump and i don't like to talk about him but the only moment i ever had where i was watching him and i thought oh he's losing his own followers even with this was when he was making fun of biden for having a son with addiction and i was like but that just goes right across every American.

[1325] There's no way that you don't have someone in your life that has struggled with addiction.

[1326] You probably even know someone that has a family member that died.

[1327] Like, that ain't left our right, pal.

[1328] Like, yeah, I think that was one of the few that even his base was a little bit cringe.

[1329] Like, no -uh.

[1330] Yeah.

[1331] And you're making fun of the dad over that.

[1332] It's just there's so many.

[1333] That's an epidemic.

[1334] They call it that for a reason.

[1335] We know that word very well now.

[1336] Yeah.

[1337] Well, you're a fantastic writer, and this is a really intimate, really neat exploration and I hope you're really proud of it because it's very cool.

[1338] Well, thank you.

[1339] I am very proud and I'm really happy with even just like the little connections that I've made and the people I've gotten to speak with.

[1340] And I'm so happy to keep Owen going.

[1341] And it feels like a very active, positive way to share him.

[1342] I also predict you're going to have this neat experience where it's like people know you from playing characters.

[1343] You may have made them laugh.

[1344] They may tell you that.

[1345] But in your heart, you know, like, well, I'm not Fran Drescher.

[1346] I'm not Rachel Maddo.

[1347] I'm not these people that you like seeing me play.

[1348] Right.

[1349] But the book is you.

[1350] So if people like it, like they like, there's something neat about that.

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] And I think like I've never felt famous enough where I think anybody has any idea of me. But certainly if anyone only knows you from S &L, it's like, I've found people like shocked that I'm a human being who's gone through anything.

[1353] You're like, well, yeah, of course.

[1354] We weren't raised in a lab.

[1355] Yeah, yeah, in the comedy lab.

[1356] Right.

[1357] Oh, and then I just wanted to bring up before we said goodbye.

[1358] I'm afraid to pronounce it, but I'm going to say it.

[1359] Shmigadoon.

[1360] Shmigadoon.

[1361] Shmigadoon is a new show that you're on.

[1362] I think it came out July 17th, maybe.

[1363] July 16th, yeah, finally.

[1364] I've been, like, waiting for so long.

[1365] I love the show so much.

[1366] I like that the book and the show are sort of coming out at the same time.

[1367] Yeah.

[1368] I think there's so much of me. There's so much, like, just heart.

[1369] And sincerity, and not a lot of cynicism in either.

[1370] I haven't watched the show, but I watched the trailer this morning, and I got to say it's a fucking phenomenal concept, especially for me because my wife is a musical theater nerd.

[1371] That's her whole life.

[1372] And I literally conceptually, I cannot lock into what a musical is.

[1373] I don't get it.

[1374] And the notion of trapping me inside of a musical, I just think is a really funny fish out of water.

[1375] I think there's a lot of, like, people that will watch it coming from both worlds.

[1376] And I feel like I want to hear, I want you two to watch it and see what that experience is.

[1377] Yeah, so she and Keegan Michael Key are trapped in a town that is a musical.

[1378] Like they are real life.

[1379] But you're normal people.

[1380] Yes, we're doctors.

[1381] It's like a normal rom -com and then their relationship is still.

[1382] But what I also liked about it is that they wrote it about a couple that's already together, which I think it's like, it's great to find a love story and people that have been together.

[1383] Because we don't tell those stories as much.

[1384] We like seeing the people meet and fall in love.

[1385] But I think there's something very sweet about a couple that's been together, having a love story.

[1386] Yeah.

[1387] And awesome people.

[1388] Right, Chenoweth, like, if you're going to do a musical and you have Chenoweth and Alan Cumming in it.

[1389] Everybody knows Kristen Chenoweth is fucking unreal and Alan coming.

[1390] And then I think what's so great is, like, then the world's going to get to see Ariana DeBose and Aaron Tivay.

[1391] And, like, they are incredible.

[1392] And Doug Cameron, Jaime, it's really a good.

[1393] I think...

[1394] An embarrassment of talent?

[1395] Yes.

[1396] Well, and Martin's shorts in it?

[1397] You can't get that guy to do anything.

[1398] Come on.

[1399] Yeah.

[1400] Were you around him at all on set?

[1401] Did you have scenes together?

[1402] We didn't get to do that together.

[1403] He was on a different set.

[1404] But it was like, you take Martin short any way you can get him.

[1405] He could be a hand in the shot, I would take it.

[1406] Yeah, I think he's pretty much unanimously regarded as the funniest human being in real life.

[1407] So funny.

[1408] Anytime he's come on S &L, I'm like, just watching him go, like, enter a room, interact with people.

[1409] You're like, oh, my God, what's happening?

[1410] He's so funny.

[1411] He might be the world's most playful person.

[1412] Like, he clearly enjoys playing with other human beings more than any person I've ever met.

[1413] He reminds me of like a hummingbird.

[1414] Like, I imagine that when he sleeps, it's like a mild coma.

[1415] Yeah.

[1416] After 40 minutes.

[1417] Yeah.

[1418] And then it's like, well, your body needs rest to be able to do all of that.

[1419] Straight into REM for him.

[1420] The second he shuts his own.

[1421] Guys.

[1422] Yeah.

[1423] Well, Cecily, this will all be over soon is the book.

[1424] And that comes out August 10th.

[1425] August 10th.

[1426] Everyone should read that.

[1427] And then everyone who has Apple TV Plus should be watching Shmigadoon, which I now having watched the trailer, most certainly starting tonight.

[1428] It looks so darn good.

[1429] And love talking to you.

[1430] Great to get to meet you.

[1431] This was great.

[1432] Lovely meeting you.

[1433] Thank you.

[1434] All right.

[1435] Well, good luck with everything.

[1436] And we'll talk to you again.

[1437] Thank you, guys.

[1438] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soul.

[1439] Homemate Monica Padman.

[1440] Ready.

[1441] Hi.

[1442] Hi, this is a rarity.

[1443] Yes, it is.

[1444] Well, not only are we in a bunk room.

[1445] That's right.

[1446] Which is interesting.

[1447] There's six beds in here because one pulls up behind your back and it's behind my back.

[1448] So six beds and it's nighttime.

[1449] It's a late night fact check.

[1450] That is really rare.

[1451] You're right.

[1452] We've only done, I would say five or less late night fact checks.

[1453] I think you're right.

[1454] We're on vacation.

[1455] It's Eric's birthday.

[1456] Happy 51st to Eric Richardson.

[1457] Yes.

[1458] And we're celebrating it in the way he loves, which is friends, family, and Taco Bell.

[1459] And candy.

[1460] And candy.

[1461] Tons of candy.

[1462] And then my big treat, which I just got and brought you one back, was Dairy Queen.

[1463] That's your fave.

[1464] When I drove in and I drove past a Dairy Queen, I thought of you and I thought you would probably get some.

[1465] And then you saw me just up ahead of my overheating motorhome.

[1466] I actually didn't.

[1467] But people did.

[1468] Your motorhome overheated.

[1469] Yeah, got a little hot, got a little toasty.

[1470] And then by the time we got to the house, we had to pull over and let her cool down twice.

[1471] It really put a snag in the ride out.

[1472] And then, of course, I was obsessing about fixing it.

[1473] Then I was like, did I hear the fan?

[1474] Then I went down a whole rabbit hole thinking it was the fan.

[1475] Then I realized it wasn't holding water.

[1476] Then it was discovered that there was a hose blown out in the aqua hot system, which is hooked to the engine.

[1477] so all the water was coming out.

[1478] Anyways, found a great mechanic out of Myrietta, California, named Junior.

[1479] And he saved the day.

[1480] Mechanics have the best names.

[1481] Do you think his name is like John, and then he went by Junior as he became more and more of a mechanic?

[1482] I'm going to go even further.

[1483] I'm going to say his name was Michael, and he went to work at a shop that there was already a Michael that was very senior.

[1484] So they started calling him Junior.

[1485] And then more and more people just came to know him as junior.

[1486] That's going to be my guess.

[1487] Okay.

[1488] That's very plausible.

[1489] But it's like, you know, like do couples look alike or do we just think they look alike because they've been together?

[1490] You know, it's one of those.

[1491] It's hard to know.

[1492] It's really hard to know.

[1493] Before we get started, we don't have very many facts, but before we get in, we have to talk about the craze we started.

[1494] Oh, my God, thank you.

[1495] Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[1496] I think because of this vacation, I actually forgot about it.

[1497] So shall we walk through it?

[1498] Yes.

[1499] We might be delusional.

[1500] We might be.

[1501] We might be.

[1502] I want to put that out there.

[1503] This could all be in our minds.

[1504] But so you and I had a couple different debates about whether one should wash their arms and legs and whatnot.

[1505] Yeah.

[1506] It started because I had dry skin.

[1507] And it came up that I washed my whole body, which seemed normal to me, but seemed crazy to you.

[1508] Yep.

[1509] And then so we debated that.

[1510] And then I think we then debated it a second time.

[1511] And at this point, some people in the comments section are.

[1512] getting engaged and there's some dermatologists in the audience and, you know.

[1513] So then we have Ashton and Milan.

[1514] Yes.

[1515] And then they bring up bathing their kids.

[1516] I say, wow, you just wandered directly into one of Monica Nizon going to Bates.

[1517] Yes.

[1518] So then they got in on it too.

[1519] You know, he thought he agreed with me. You should just wash your butt, pitts, tits, slits, and fish.

[1520] Bish, bush, and bosh.

[1521] And then, so then I think what happened initially was then it became a news thing, that Ashton and Mila don't wash their kids.

[1522] Yeah.

[1523] And then people, as I learned later from Ashton, are, you know, like writing on his Twitter, like, wash your kid!

[1524] Like, he's posting about his organization that ends child trafficking.

[1525] And literally, this post is like, go watch your dirty kids.

[1526] Oh, my God.

[1527] Oh, my God.

[1528] Okay.

[1529] So that was happening.

[1530] And then I was, of course, seeing some things about it.

[1531] But what was really weird for me is that we were promoting the game show a week ago Monday.

[1532] Mm -hmm.

[1533] And we got asked once about bathing our kids, which we understood.

[1534] We thought, oh, yeah, that had come up.

[1535] And then the second time, I thought they were asking that again.

[1536] But in retrospection, I realized they really just asked what our bathing habits were.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] And initially, I thought, oh, she's referencing the show.

[1539] But it occurred to me later, she wasn't.

[1540] Because that night, I saw a news headline on the Apple News feed that The Rock, Dwayne Johnson has gotten in on the celebrity bathing debate.

[1541] So I go to the article and the rock is like, let me set the record straight.

[1542] I am not like them, dirty celebrities.

[1543] I shower three times a day, cold in the morning, medium in the afternoon, and hot at night.

[1544] Oh, I didn't realize there was a gradient.

[1545] Yes, there's a, he marches through from cold to scald.

[1546] I guess scalding, well, I'm adding the word scalding, but I like to think it's scalding.

[1547] So he's in that shower three times a day.

[1548] And so I thought, oh, my God, if this is the same thing, which I think it is the same thing, people are getting asked this anytime they're doing press now.

[1549] It's like a go -to question for, in quotes, journalists to inquire about.

[1550] So I called Coucher and said, I think we started this thing.

[1551] And I think someone asked me without any knowledge that we had all started it.

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] And I thought that was really hysterical and insane.

[1554] And then I did predict that we'll probably end up.

[1555] Like, I don't think this is over.

[1556] I think, like, Merrill Streep's going to get asked.

[1557] I hope so.

[1558] And we're going to find out where she washes and where she doesn't.

[1559] Her bathing routine.

[1560] You have Monica's dry skin to thank for that if you enjoy learning this about other people.

[1561] Or it is nothing to do with us, and it just is a coincidence.

[1562] And we just, we're a narcissist.

[1563] That also could be true.

[1564] I would need someone to walk me through the dots of how someone else started it for me to change my opinion.

[1565] Okay.

[1566] Well, anyway, so keep up with that, guys.

[1567] Yeah, keep it.

[1568] Posted, or keep yourself posted.

[1569] Keep posting.

[1570] Keep posting.

[1571] I'm just thinking of the rock saying, you know, he's going to get in on.

[1572] Like, he wanted to make it clear.

[1573] He's not one of these dirty celebrities like Ashton and I who only wash our butts three times a week.

[1574] He's not like one of those foul.

[1575] Three times a day.

[1576] That's.

[1577] Do you think he's ashy?

[1578] No. He has perfect skin.

[1579] You know what someone pointed out?

[1580] Because we were talking about this on the trip.

[1581] And it might have been Matt that pointed out, well, the dude gets a massage.

[1582] single day.

[1583] Oh, so he has oil.

[1584] Yeah, he has oil on them.

[1585] So I'm like, okay, well, yeah, if you had that into my lifestyle, then I'd have to shower every day, too.

[1586] Right.

[1587] And I'd probably use.

[1588] Would you?

[1589] Would you?

[1590] Yeah.

[1591] And I'd probably probably use soap on my body.

[1592] That's probably the only time I do use soap on my body is if I've had a massage and I'm oily.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] The oils are slick.

[1595] That makes sense for him.

[1596] For one of them.

[1597] Yeah.

[1598] There's two more.

[1599] I don't know about the other two.

[1600] But it sounds like he's got a whole thing with the temperature that he has to accomplish.

[1601] Look, I wouldn't mind taking on his routine Because I think he looks great Yeah Don't we all?

[1602] We all think that Yeah, he looks good Okay What is a frog expert called?

[1603] You were right?

[1604] Herpetology?

[1605] A botologist Branch of zoology concerned with the study of amphibians Including frogs, toads, salamanders, nudes, And herpes.

[1606] Perhaps.

[1607] Well, it's got herpes in the name.

[1608] Yeah.

[1609] Yeah, one would conclude.

[1610] It also includes herpes.

[1611] Yeah, it's a great interest in amphibians and herpes.

[1612] And reptiles.

[1613] Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry.

[1614] Don't forget that.

[1615] Yeah, yeah.

[1616] Okay, so you got that right.

[1617] Okay, now that's...

[1618] Now, how old was she when Perfect Strangers was on?

[1619] First episode of Perfect Strangers, 1986.

[1620] Oh, okay.

[1621] Okay, so she's born in 84, so she was two when it came out.

[1622] I was right.

[1623] How many seasons were?

[1624] Was it?

[1625] I bet you that it was three or four?

[1626] 150 episodes.

[1627] Well, then that is probably six years.

[1628] Six seasons, probably ish, yeah.

[1629] Oh, eight seasons.

[1630] Eight seasons, perfect, so jures.

[1631] And what's the cast?

[1632] Um.

[1633] Tom Hanks.

[1634] Oh, is it?

[1635] Hold on.

[1636] No. Oh, my God.

[1637] Oh, my God.

[1638] The spinoff was Family Matters?

[1639] Oh, my God.

[1640] It's a spin -off family matters.

[1641] You're mad at me. Why?

[1642] It's easy the way you delivered that.

[1643] You go, oh, my God, the spinoff was Family Matters?

[1644] Well, I'm just shocked to read this right now.

[1645] I don't know that I know what Family Matters is.

[1646] Steve Urkel.

[1647] Oh, did I do that?

[1648] Yes.

[1649] Oh, speaking of which, did I do that, is here.

[1650] Best Friend, Aaron Weekly is here.

[1651] We will do a fact check with him and Charlie probably next episode, and we'll follow up with their journeys.

[1652] Yes.

[1653] And then he will also give you as Steve Urkel.

[1654] Which is It's dead on It's crazy It's like a computer is doing the impersonation The actors in Perfect Strangers are Bronson Pitchot The Cot Pinchot And then Marklin Baker Okay Do you have an image of it?

[1655] Oh yeah I might have been thinking of booze and buddies Oh bosom buddies is Tom Hanks Yeah T Hanks This is them Let's see Okay I also was picturing that So, okay.

[1656] Okay.

[1657] It looks like the bosom buddies as well.

[1658] It does.

[1659] I think it's in an era where two guys was a good show.

[1660] Yeah.

[1661] That time has passed.

[1662] Two guys living together.

[1663] It's a good.

[1664] Here's my pitch.

[1665] Okay.

[1666] It's two men.

[1667] Okay.

[1668] Go on.

[1669] They don't live with their parents and they don't live with their wives.

[1670] They live with one another.

[1671] But do they know each other?

[1672] If that's the direction you want us to go in, absolutely.

[1673] And if you want them to be perfect strangers, that could be perfect strangers.

[1674] That's it.

[1675] Sold.

[1676] You like the perfect strangers?

[1677] That's what we were leaning towards.

[1678] This is a big relief for us.

[1679] Oh, my God.

[1680] We've been hoping for something different like this.

[1681] Yeah, we were thinking, I don't know.

[1682] Do you know this actor Tom Hanks?

[1683] Never heard of him.

[1684] Okay.

[1685] Well, then we have another couple actors that maybe you would like.

[1686] Okay.

[1687] Pringle Belke.

[1688] You know who we're thinking?

[1689] You know who we're thinking?

[1690] I'm sure you know Mark Pinchot.

[1691] Oh, my God, yes.

[1692] We love Mark at the office.

[1693] Yes.

[1694] Okay.

[1695] We have a deal with him.

[1696] He would be perfect as one of the strangers, the perfect strangers.

[1697] Oh.

[1698] I think this is going to go on for eight seasons.

[1699] Oh, God willing, fingers crossed, from your lips to God's ears.

[1700] Okay, so this is...

[1701] That was so fun.

[1702] Can we call that bit something and we can do it more often?

[1703] Perfect strangers?

[1704] Call the bit perfect.

[1705] Pitch perfect strangers.

[1706] Pitch perfect strangers.

[1707] Pitch perfect strangers.

[1708] That'll be a new game we play with regularity on here.

[1709] Okay, I love it.

[1710] Okay.

[1711] Now, this was interesting because we recorded this a bit ago.

[1712] And we talk about coincidence a lot in this And we talk about not manifesting But like the constellation of the world Like putting the stars together, your own map In this episode And it comes right after this episode with Maya Where we have this whole debate And I just started to think like, man That's a clue too?

[1713] Yeah I think I've noticed this before Sometimes there's a weird synergy That happens with these episodes Because we're not planning it Like this was recorded way before and then they happen to come out one after another or like we'll have somebody on who we recorded a long time ago and they'll talk about a show or something and then the next episode they'll be somewhat like it's weird the way sometimes these things all fit.

[1714] Mm -hmm.

[1715] And if I'm Maya, I would say the you're highlighting those times.

[1716] Yeah.

[1717] Yeah.

[1718] More than the, um, it's a sound argument.

[1719] It's hard to get around that argument.

[1720] It is.

[1721] But I'm with Cecily like, it's lovely to look at the world like that.

[1722] I agree.

[1723] I don't even think one's evaluating what's right and wrong or anatomical or metaphysical as much as, like, how do you enjoy living life on planet Earth?

[1724] Yeah.

[1725] P .E. P .E. Planet Earth.

[1726] Yeah.

[1727] Anyway, I just thought that was a really fun little.

[1728] Oh, my God.

[1729] I just realized something else.

[1730] We interviewed someone whose first album was called Leaving Planet Earth.

[1731] Holland.

[1732] No. Bree Larson.

[1733] And her band was called, like, finally out of P .E. Oh, yeah.

[1734] Yeah, yeah.

[1735] And it was obviously a reference to physical education, but I had just before that declared that I was going to start calling Planet Earth P .E. And I think Brieb is potentially next week.

[1736] And so this is what I'm saying.

[1737] Oh, my God.

[1738] This is.

[1739] That's what I'm saying.

[1740] I don't know what to say.

[1741] It's what I'm saying.

[1742] I mean, look, that stuff's also in our mind at times, you know.

[1743] Like, you and I get hot for an idea for a couple weeks.

[1744] and we kind of, everything filters through that idea quite often.

[1745] True.

[1746] So that's a thing too.

[1747] So is there anything else?

[1748] That was all the facts.

[1749] Oh, that was?

[1750] I want more facts.

[1751] There weren't many on this.

[1752] I was enjoying that.

[1753] I loved her.

[1754] And I loved the way she, you know, took this story about her cousin and is, and using it in a positive way of looking at life and choosing to be optimistic.

[1755] And I loved when she said, like, I want to be on Owen and the doctor.

[1756] team.

[1757] Like, they believe in curing this.

[1758] And I want that to be the way I think.

[1759] Yeah.

[1760] And I love that.

[1761] What was the highlight of the trip for you so far?

[1762] God, the weather's been so nice.

[1763] We keep, we call it, well, we're in Temecula, but we're calling it Tamawe, coined by you.

[1764] It's very, thank you for acknowledging me for that.

[1765] It's very tropical, which is unexpected.

[1766] It's generally dry out here.

[1767] And it's generally still and hot as blazes.

[1768] We were all expecting.

[1769] to be in 95 plus degree weather.

[1770] And thus far, we've been in about 86 degree weather with a very thick moist wind blowing at all time.

[1771] It's been lovely.

[1772] Cloud cover.

[1773] Yeah.

[1774] It's felt very tropical.

[1775] Here's something that happened.

[1776] We were playing spades, me and you and best friend Aaron Weekly and Ruthie.

[1777] And it was you and Aaron versus me and Ruthie.

[1778] And, you know, you have a rule that you've come up with.

[1779] A personal rule.

[1780] A personal rule.

[1781] Yeah, yeah.

[1782] A strategy.

[1783] That has, exactly, a strategy that has spread like wildfire through the group.

[1784] And at one point, I was dealing and I was making a decision.

[1785] And I said, okay, we can do this.

[1786] And I didn't say anything.

[1787] I didn't say like, but there's a thought that if you do this other thing, whatever.

[1788] And you sat really quietly.

[1789] Like a little mouse.

[1790] Like a little big mouth.

[1791] Yeah.

[1792] A huge mouse in the room.

[1793] Too big of a mouse.

[1794] in the room who was biting his mouth tongue like crazy.

[1795] And you didn't say anything.

[1796] And then I said, but also Dax has a theory.

[1797] I, you know, I waited on it.

[1798] Oh, you tested me. And I passed the test.

[1799] And you passed.

[1800] Oh, my God.

[1801] I'm so glad I passed.

[1802] And it was, I'll say it was extra tempting.

[1803] Why?

[1804] Because my young son was there.

[1805] And I'm trying to teach him the game.

[1806] Teach him the ways of the world.

[1807] Uh -huh.

[1808] As a father does for his young, his young little baby boy.

[1809] Little prints.

[1810] But you did it.

[1811] You held your tongue.

[1812] First time I've ever seen it happen in my whole life.

[1813] Well, it's tricky because I also had my little baby girl.

[1814] My little, little in her white dress, a little brown baby girl in her white dress.

[1815] And I had my bouncing little baby boy.

[1816] Oh, no. And everyone was at the table.

[1817] That's hard for you.

[1818] That was very proud.

[1819] Listen, speaking of your baby boy and baby girl.

[1820] So Aaron's on cameo.

[1821] If anyone wants a cameo, please get one from Aaron.

[1822] And he told me, you know, most of the cameos.

[1823] request me to be by my baby Monica picture.

[1824] Which made me really happy.

[1825] I'm not surprised at all.

[1826] I kind of want to dress you guys up for a photo shoot.

[1827] Like those little bonnets that babies wear, a big, big huge rattle for Aaron.

[1828] And will he only be wearing a diaper?

[1829] Duh.

[1830] I mean, he's made to wear a little diaper with a bonnet.

[1831] Yeah, and you'll be in that dress.

[1832] You'll be in the white dress.

[1833] But we'll see diaper hanging out the bottom, as happens, those dresses for.

[1834] little ones um so anyway maybe that's going to be my birthday request that photo okay man that's a lot of pressure what is your favorite part of the trip well we just i just sat derry queen that was not it's not it's not it's not well it's just a couple moments sitting outside playing spades with that weather that was impossible and i just it was felt intoxicating yeah really really really lucky well i love you happy birthday happy birthday happy birthday happy 51st monica Bye.

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