Quit Letting Your Money Boss You Around and Tell IT What To Do!

[0] From the Ramsey Network, it's The Ramsey Show.

[1] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[2] Next to me is Dr. John Doloney, and we're taking your calls.

[3] We're talking about your life and your money.

[4] We're helping people build wealth, do work that they love, and have amazing relationships.

[5] This is a live show.

[6] You can give us a call if you want to call in.

[7] The number is 888 -8 -25 -5 -2 -25, and we'll try and get you on the line and try to hook you up with the advice that you need.

[8] All right, John, you ready to do this.

[9] Let's go.

[10] Let's go straight to the phone lines.

[11] We've got Jody in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

[12] What up, Jody?

[13] Hi, how are you?

[14] Doing great.

[15] How can we help today?

[16] Hi.

[17] Well, I can't believe I called in and doing this.

[18] But anyways, I am in a very emotionally abusive, emotionally and financially abusive relationship.

[19] I've been with him for 18 years.

[20] We have a 9 -year -old daughter, and I need out.

[21] and I start trying to figure out plans and I like we'll research this and research that and then I'll put this in order and then I become this paralyzed whirlpool of this is I you know what I'm saying like I could probably help other people but my brain and I'm just emotionally exhausted too so I don't think that helps what happened Jody something happened that said you said this is enough what happened?

[22] Um, you know, I think I have a blood clotting disorder and I had a blood clot at the beginning of the summer, a deep vein blood clot in my leg.

[23] Um, and they are incredibly painful.

[24] Um, also potentially life -threatening.

[25] I've had a couple of ones.

[26] I had one in my pelvis after my pregnancy that, um, came close to damaging my heart.

[27] I had some in my lungs, things like that.

[28] So it's a really serious thing.

[29] And, um, I am sitting.

[30] on the recliner and he comes home from work and starts screaming at me to get off my lazy butt that I'm on his chair and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and I mean that's just one example and I mean my daughter and I are both staring at him and I said I don't know why you think you can talk to me like this and I mean you know like it's a big deal my blood clot is a big deal and I just I've been done before and then things happened and I allowed my plans to become derailed and everything like that and so I did me a favor right now Jody uh -huh where is all of this in your body is it in your chest it is okay take your fist and put it in your chest right now uh -huh take a humongous deep breath real big and then exhale it out drop your shoulders as low as you can go pull them down okay okay and here's why we're doing this exercise this is what happens inside your mind too yeah when you start researching stuff isn't it it spins faster and faster and faster and faster yes and then it feels chaotic and then your daughter comes in and says hey can you help me with my lunch tomorrow and then you're off to the next thing and this thing never resolves itself and it just spins faster and it's heavier and heavier yes the only way I've learned and I'm like you I get pretty emotional got a heart I don't have anything like you what you're dealing with at home but when I get emotional I spin and I go faster and faster and faster and the only way I've learned to be able to walk through those things is with other people I have been gathering my friends and family I've kind of explained where I'm at but listen to me you're doing a lot of you're using other people and you're using your internet searches as Xanax.

[31] Yes.

[32] You need to find somebody.

[33] I want a practical plan.

[34] You need to sit with a lawyer that you are paying that you are on the clock with because that will force you to laser in and say, what do you want to do next?

[35] Otherwise, you just have a bunch of people that you talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to and talk to.

[36] And you've got to have a gang.

[37] You've got to have people that will listen to you and that will sit with you and will show up with casseroles.

[38] but you need to have somebody who will say, here's what happens.

[39] If you do A, here's what happens with B. And someone that will walk you through step by step, here is legally and practically what happens next.

[40] And there'll be financial ramifications.

[41] There will be custody ramifications.

[42] There will be all sorts of ramifications.

[43] But I want you to stop spinning and sit with somebody.

[44] And by the way, some attorneys aren't people of character and they'll take your money.

[45] They'll let you spend all day long and they'll just put you on the clock.

[46] Most of the ones I've ever met with care deeply about their clients and they will say, okay, if you're hiring me to go to war, let's go to war.

[47] Yeah.

[48] So I'm going to ask you, what's your next move?

[49] I will, well, lawyer, retainer.

[50] I have a friend who said that she would help me get the money.

[51] I have no money.

[52] I have nothing.

[53] Well, that's my next question is, what does this mean for you?

[54] Because you've got to eat.

[55] Yes.

[56] Yes, and I met with an employment specialist.

[57] I had gotten a therapist and a psychiatrist as I was depressed, and I was undiagnosed ADHD for many years.

[58] And so, you know, and tell me about your job.

[59] Tell me about your job.

[60] Oh, she's so awesome.

[61] But this is why I need to go.

[62] This is taking its toll on her.

[63] And as he was sitting there yelling at me, I'm like, I don't want her to think.

[64] No, no, I'm sorry.

[65] Tell me about your job.

[66] Not your child.

[67] Tell me about your job.

[68] What are you going to do for money?

[69] I'm sorry.

[70] If you leave, how are you going to eat and where are you going to live?

[71] I told the employment specialists, we're meeting next week to help me with my resume.

[72] Okay.

[73] And I am, my heart is in the nonprofit world.

[74] However, I told them that my first priority is to make enough money for me to be able to live on my own and support my daughter.

[75] There you go.

[76] Have you ever done that before?

[77] lived on my own yes.

[78] Okay.

[79] Then you can do it again.

[80] Well, kind of as a student, yes.

[81] Okay.

[82] I know I can do this.

[83] That's the thing.

[84] Like, I know that I can do this.

[85] I keep tripping myself up.

[86] I know I'm worse more and more and more than anything.

[87] And the reason I'm willing to accept help from my friends and families financially is that I owe my daughter more.

[88] And part of the reason that I've been also kind of not putting it off is I know he's going to make it so ugly, and I know he's going to drag her in it, but I tell myself he's already dragged her in it, and I've allowed it.

[89] And in leaving him, I think, I hope, that that means I'm not dragging her in it.

[90] I'm dragging her out of it, and if he continues to drag her in it, I will just have to do my best to listen to my daughter.

[91] Let's solve that problem when we get there.

[92] Let's do the next right thing in front of us.

[93] and jade's going to walk you through the four walls but these are the things i want you to put on a list and i want you to sit down with a trusted friend or a couple friend that you trust that you can walk through what this actually means because these have to be real numbers they can't be feelings and thoughts they have to be real numbers and i want you to sit with an attorney and if you need to leave and go stay with somebody because your home's not safe then do that right now like today physically i'm safe i am physically safe i really do believe that but not mentally okay yeah you know know, when you get, when you make that leap and you, you know, walk out of this thing, the thing that you're going to have to focus on first is just making sure that you can pay for your shelter.

[94] Like, you've got to find a place that you can live that you can afford.

[95] After that, it's utilities.

[96] After that, it's food.

[97] After that, it's transportation because you need to be able to get to work and back.

[98] And so those four things, before you get off the line today, we're going to get you set up with every dollar and totally for free so that you can use that.

[99] You can start budgeting.

[100] You can start looking at what your life is going to look like financially.

[101] I think that you making this choice, I know you said you were worried about dragging your daughter through it, but she's also going to see something really great of a woman who says, I'm not going to be treated like this, and I get to decide, and she's going to take that and carry that with her, and it's going to mean a lot for her.

[102] So, ooh, tough stuff.

[103] Good job, John.

[104] We're blessed.

[105] We're praying for you.

[106] Call us back anytime.

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[121] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[122] I'm Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr. John Deloney today, as we take your calls.

[123] You can give us a call.

[124] Numbers triple eight, eight two, five, two, two, five, get in where you fit in.

[125] Hey, guys, all the time we're talking about the steps and the changes that you need to make in order to change your money, your career, your mental health, even your relationships every single day, because we know none of it is happening by accident, okay?

[126] It takes intentionality to do this.

[127] It takes hard work.

[128] So here's how we're going to come alongside you and help you.

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[148] Ten dollars, John, this book should be like $100.

[149] That's what I'm saying, but you know what I'm saying?

[150] I love it when Dave sells our books for cheap.

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[152] Way to go, D money.

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[162] I don't know if it's at 5 o 'clock.

[163] At 11 .59 p .m. I feel like one of those floppy guys in front of a car dealership.

[164] The wacky wavys.

[165] The wacky wavy.

[166] Is that what they're called?

[167] Oh, they're called?

[168] There we go.

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[170] Thursday, August 22nd.

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[172] 10 bucks.

[173] Go get them.

[174] Y 'all don't want to see my Wacky Wavy?

[175] They refuse.

[176] There it is.

[177] They cut away.

[178] I know.

[179] Nobody wants to see that.

[180] All right.

[181] Let's go to the phones.

[182] We should start a band called the Wacky Wavy's.

[183] I like it.

[184] That's an amazing band.

[185] Slide guitar.

[186] Slide guitar.

[187] Okay.

[188] Let's go.

[189] Natasha is in Kansas City, Missouri.

[190] What's going on, Natasha?

[191] Hi, guys.

[192] How are you?

[193] Good.

[194] What do you think about the band name Wacky Wacky Wavy?

[195] baby?

[196] Oh, I don't know.

[197] I'm probably not the right person.

[198] That means we're on to something.

[199] I'm not a musician.

[200] I'm not a musician.

[201] I don't know.

[202] Well, how can we help you today?

[203] Well, so I just wanted to, I listen to the show all the time, a long -time lurch letter, first -time caller.

[204] So my husband and I have several rental properties, and a couple years ago, we bought a property with the idea that his mom, who is in the midst of a divorce, could live in that house.

[205] And obviously we didn't want to dictate anything for her, but she's been living near and she, I think, would like to stay, which we're totally fine with.

[206] But she has approached us about maybe putting an addition on the house.

[207] And I think it's fine.

[208] I want, we desperately want her to be happy and, you know, we want it to be a blessing to her.

[209] but we've never had a business partner in any of our like rental properties and so I feel a little bit weird with the idea of her paying for some portion even though I know she's living in the house so I just wanted to make sure like I'd love to just like give her the green line we really would be tickled honestly if she is a blessing to her and she stays forever as far as we're concerned but is there anything I'm not thinking of yeah you know that I should I mean listen I love your heart on this I think that you love your mother -in -law you want you know, her to feel like the place is hers.

[210] It's not hers.

[211] It's yours.

[212] Is she paying you rent or do you let her live there rent free?

[213] No, no. She's not paying us rent.

[214] I mean, we vet it at the property as a rental with the idea that if she didn't like it, we would rent it out.

[215] Okay.

[216] You have other rental properties that's part of our portfolio.

[217] So you're just using the other properties to float this one?

[218] Or is it paid for in cash?

[219] So we will have this property paid off by the end of next year.

[220] And we have one other.

[221] We have a total left of mortgages between our three, between three of two are paid off.

[222] Great.

[223] Five total properties.

[224] They'll all be paid off in the next probably three and a half years.

[225] So then back to this idea of the addition on the house.

[226] I think because here's where I think.

[227] I think if you let her pay for this and something happens because no, nobody knows what's around the corner, right?

[228] There's going to be some feeling that it's her house.

[229] And I put this money into the addition.

[230] And it just feels like it could get very messy, very quickly.

[231] Even if you put it in writing, which if you decide to do this, definitely put it in writing, the amount that she's putting into it.

[232] What would happen if the house were to sell or if she were to move?

[233] How does she get her money back?

[234] That sort of thing.

[235] But more than that, you want to know what I would just do.

[236] It's your house.

[237] If you want an addition on it, just put an addition on it.

[238] That's what I would do.

[239] That's what I was wondering, should we just pay for it?

[240] I would.

[241] It's not worth your relationship with your mother -in -law, because here's what's going to happen.

[242] By the way, what's this addition for?

[243] So it's a cute little starter house, but I think she'd like a house that has more room for her grandkids to be over.

[244] I mean, honestly, it's in a great neighborhood.

[245] We bought a little house with plenty of room, like a lot of people in the area have done additions.

[246] There's plenty of upsides, financially, to doing the addition.

[247] But I have, like, this little bit of angst, like, should we just pay for it?

[248] Yeah, because here's what's going to happen.

[249] I mean, buy her what she wants.

[250] You're going to pull out, you're going to pull out the back wall, and you're going to find a ton of termite damage.

[251] Exactly.

[252] Niceer kitchen, and she would like, she wants to wash her dryer upstairs.

[253] So when she gets older, it's not an issue.

[254] Yeah, it makes sense.

[255] What about just moving her to one of these other houses?

[256] I was going to ask that same thing.

[257] So the other properties that we have, we did offer to her.

[258] her initially when we when she was moving and she wasn't key they're they're all stairs they all have okay so this is the only this one is a single family nice little ranch what's it going to cost you a great neighborhood to do the addition we haven't even looked but i'm guessing i would i would guess we wouldn't pay more than like a hundred do you have cash it's a it's a 200 ,000 well we won't do it if we don't have cash but um we we we love how you said that you're like listen I would I would not take her money.

[259] I would keep this clean.

[260] This is y 'all's place.

[261] It's in our trust.

[262] And we're in a really good financial spot.

[263] I mean, we're worth several million dollars now.

[264] Yeah, you are.

[265] Yeah.

[266] If you all feel like you want to do this, I would pay for it, and I would not take her money.

[267] And I would tell her, hey, thank you so much for offering.

[268] But I want you to, we want you to live to be 125.

[269] And so we want to make sure you can afford it all the way down.

[270] And we've been blessed and we can do this.

[271] It just keeps everything so.

[272] clean and it's not you I'm worried about it's not your husband it's not her it's it's your brother -in -law who has a gambling debt that you don't know about that turns to sue we would not have a job if every family acted like you and your husband and your mother -in -law it always goes sideways and if every contractor was honest and no trees fell through houses and so I would just keep lines as clean as possible or deed her the house give it to her and say this is Merry Christmas and just make sure you put it in your will that we get it back and do that.

[273] Give it away to her.

[274] That's pretty cool.

[275] But I keep the lines as clean as possible.

[276] Okay.

[277] Like I said, we've never had business partners or anything for that reason.

[278] I wouldn't.

[279] I wouldn't.

[280] Even when people call and they've done all the paperwork and they've written it the right way, there's still something that causes a saltiness or an animosity.

[281] And that's why I said before, even if you were to do all of that, it still doesn't make up for the feelings that ensue after the fact.

[282] And so I'm with John.

[283] I would either pay and have this addition put on with your own $100 ,000 cash, or I would Deeter the house and say, hey, really, this is our gift to you, whatever changes you want to make.

[284] It's yours free and clear.

[285] I like that idea.

[286] You guys have done really, really well.

[287] And this is the stuff that we talk about.

[288] You know, you live like no one else.

[289] Later, you're able to give like no one else.

[290] And this is giving on a whole another level.

[291] Yeah, and I just don't want to see next Christmas.

[292] There's a lot of tension because she's doing something to your house with money.

[293] She doesn't.

[294] Oh, man. Just don't.

[295] Keep the lines clean because you love each other.

[296] Yeah, I like that.

[297] This is The Ramsey Show.

[298] Buying your first home is a big deal and sets the stage for your financial success.

[299] So work with a mortgage advisor you trust, not just some random website.

[300] Churchill Mortgage is Ramsey trusted because they help you avoid hidden traps and expertly guide you through every step.

[301] Learn more at Churchillmortgage .com.

[302] This is a paid advertisement.

[303] NMLS.

[304] ID 1591 and MLS Consumer Access .org.

[305] Equal housing lender.

[306] 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100.

[307] Brentwood, Tennessee, 37027.

[308] What's going on?

[309] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[310] My name is Jade Warshaw.

[311] Next to me is Dr. John Deloney.

[312] If you don't know, now you know.

[313] You guys need to know about Dr. John.

[314] John, tell them about yourself.

[315] My name's John.

[316] My friends call me John.

[317] Yeah, dude, my friends call me John.

[318] My wife calls me John.

[319] Does anybody call you Johnny?

[320] My kids call me old man. No. I wanted to be Johnny because I cried a kid, but never stuck.

[321] Is it short for Jonathan?

[322] Nope.

[323] I think they were going to call me Jonathan and my mom said when I was born.

[324] I just looked like a John.

[325] So she called it.

[326] All right.

[327] I like it.

[328] All right.

[329] She called it.

[330] Well, he's the guy that's going to take the calls about your relationship.

[331] if you're dealing with things going on in that side of things, mental health world, wellness world.

[332] He's got you covered.

[333] I'm here for the money side.

[334] So if you want to call us, the number is 8888 -8 -25.

[335] 5 -2 -25.

[336] If you didn't know, it's a live show.

[337] And so we'll get you on.

[338] Let's go to the phone lines.

[339] Oh, before we do, let me just say, John and I have jobs because of you guys.

[340] So we're really grateful that you listen to the show, that you listen on podcasts, that you log in on YouTube, that you pull it up, you know, You turn the radio dial some of you and you listen to us on the radio and we're really grateful for that.

[341] So if you could do us a solid here and wherever you listen to the show, like it, subscribe and share.

[342] If you can do those three things, it'll cost you like two seconds of your time and we'd be so grateful because when you do that, not only does it share the show with other people, but it makes the show more accessible the way the internet works and the way all these things work together.

[343] So that would help us a lot.

[344] We know that you already do it.

[345] Keep doing it is what I'm trying to say.

[346] All right, let's go to the phone lines.

[347] We've got Nick in Chicago, Illinois, Shytown.

[348] What's going on, Nick?

[349] Hi, I was just calling because my wife and I are trying to stay for a house, and I've talked to her about having a budget.

[350] And for some reason, she says that we can stick to a budget, and I have just used my notes app on my phone and talked about it with her.

[351] But it seems like it's like $10 here, $20 here, $50 here, and it adds up, and I don't think she really realizes it.

[352] So I'm just calling for, like, ask how I can, like, talk to her about it in a way where, like, she can get on board and then, like, how she can, like, stick to the budget that I'm wanting to stick to, if that makes sense.

[353] So there could be two things at play.

[354] It could be that the budget is not quite realistic enough.

[355] It could be.

[356] I don't know.

[357] I always say that budgets should be three things.

[358] detailed, realistic, and flexible.

[359] So just that first pass here, there's part of me that thinks it's probably not hitting the mark in one or more of those areas.

[360] Did you tell me that you're using the notes app to budget or you're using the notes app to decide what to say to her?

[361] No, we've just written down like all of our expenses and then like all of our, how much we make and then all of our expenses per month.

[362] Okay, so that's another part of this.

[363] You know, having the right tool is what's going to make budgeting something that you can stick to and that you can do for the long haul.

[364] It makes it more enjoyable.

[365] It's really hard to stick to a budget that's written just in the Notes app.

[366] I'm just going to tell you that.

[367] So I think here, what we need here is the right set of tools and the right set of parameters and how to work the tool.

[368] So before you leave today, I'm going to get you set up with every dollar.

[369] It's the best budgeting app there is.

[370] because on it it's not a notes app it's a really great app that you can have on your phone it's on her phone it's working with you in time so if you make a purchase on your phone she sees it on her phone and it's something as simple as hey I'm going to the grocery store I just need to see how much we can spend and you open up the app and it says $300 and you're like great and then when you make that purchase at the grocery store you spent $50 it automatically goes into the app and now you can see now I only have $250 left to spend so it's going to do that math for you and it's going to keep you guys on top of your numbers, I think that's going to go a really, really long way.

[371] And then it's going to help you to see, okay, the numbers that we said, are they accurate?

[372] Like, does this actually work with our life?

[373] Because it's possible, Nick, that she's going over budget because what you've said is just not a realistic amount.

[374] Could I be right about that?

[375] Or?

[376] Yeah, possibly.

[377] I just feel like, I feel like just her, like, knowing, like, how much is left or how much we like it's in the budget to like go out to eat and stuff that like we have like a budget for that but I feel like it always goes over but it's also a notes app so you're constantly like it's almost like an old school ledger that you're having to yeah I know I guess you mean like the app or whatever you're talking about I feel like seems like something a lot more practical do you all do this budget together or do you sit down and sit yeah I I sat down originally and and wrote it out.

[378] Yeah, you did.

[379] And we sat down together and looked at it together and went over it together and agreed like, hey, this is not right.

[380] This is right.

[381] And then we should change a few things.

[382] But that didn't seem to work.

[383] How long have you been doing that?

[384] Six months.

[385] Okay.

[386] Give every dollar a try and see if it helps.

[387] Next thing I want to know is the areas that she's going over.

[388] Is it the same areas every month?

[389] Yeah, it's mostly just shopping and eating out.

[390] you're both eating out or only she's eating out or she'll typically on like her lunch break from work she'll eat out okay so she's going out for lunch um and then what's the other area you said shopping like shopping okay so next question is what baby step are you guys on uh we're debt free um and we don't we're pretty much saving for a house we don't have any debt how much have you saved so I'm renting.

[391] What?

[392] How much have you saved so far for the house?

[393] 24 ,000.

[394] Okay, good.

[395] And what's the goal?

[396] We're trying to get it as high as possible, but our goal was originally 80 ,000.

[397] It hasn't really changed, like, the past, like, four months.

[398] We haven't really made any progress on saving more.

[399] Okay.

[400] Let me ask you this.

[401] I'm just trying to get to the core because I don't want to say anything that's not quite right.

[402] How long did it take you to pay off your debt and save up the three to six months before you started this?

[403] Most of it was done.

[404] Most of it was done by me before we had gotten married.

[405] So I feel we didn't, she didn't have any debt.

[406] I paid off my debt before we got married.

[407] Okay, so she didn't have debt.

[408] She comes into this and it's like we're in saving mode basically for the whole marriage.

[409] Okay.

[410] Nick, you keep saying we.

[411] there's no we here you paid off debt you built a budget you want to buy a house she wants to eat lunch with her friends and buy clothes yeah can I also ask another probing question she tells me she's so passionate about she can't wait to do it she wants to do it yeah but behavior is a language so she's being pretty clear about what she really believes what is the clothing budget what is the food out to eat budget like we've said like a hunt for like eating out for her we said um once a week go out and eat and I said like $10 a week once a week that's what we agreed on so $40 yeah and then what's the clothes the $40 a month and what's the shopping budget and then we had originally agreed on going once a month shopping with a $50 budget of that okay Okay.

[412] And what's you guys is income combined?

[413] What's your combined income?

[414] $100 ,000.

[415] Okay.

[416] I think that she feels a little suffocated.

[417] She's like, we make $100 ,000 a year.

[418] I'm working.

[419] He's working.

[420] I want to spend more than $40 on restaurants.

[421] And maybe I want to spend.

[422] So when she goes over shopping, I'm trying to meet in the middle, because I'm not saying she's right and I'm not saying you're wrong.

[423] When she goes over budget for clothes, how much does she go over?

[424] like she's spending like $300 a month the last few months on clothes okay she's tripping a little bit let's be honest about that so maybe it's hey I noticed you're going over $50 isn't cutting it can we go to 150 can we go to can we go to 100 try to meet her in the middle because what I think what I think could be happening and John you could pop in here but I think she's like we don't have any debt like we've got three to six months of savings I don't want to feel so tight I want a house but I don't want to feel so so tight there that might be going on.

[425] Try to meter halfway on that.

[426] And other than that, it's you guys sitting down and having a big kids conversation about do we want a house or do we not want a house.

[427] And maybe it's you rolling out the numbers and saying, hey, if we keep going at this rate, we're not going to have a house until the year 2034.

[428] You know what I mean?

[429] And it's just you being honest about what's actually going on.

[430] And then, you know, see what goes from there.

[431] It's not easy.

[432] These conversations are not easy.

[433] Ramsey Show.

[434] You've worked, saved, sacrificed, and been gazelle intense with your financial game plan.

[435] But do you have the right defense in place, like the right health insurance?

[436] Look, you can't walk past a doctor's office these days without getting a massive bill.

[437] And if you don't have health insurance, a major medical situation can undo all of your hard work.

[438] That's where my friends at Health Trust Financial can help.

[439] They work for you, not the insurance company.

[440] So they find you the right health insurance, and they save you money.

[441] Ramsey has recommended Health Trust Financial for two decades because they're the experts.

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[443] Listen to you, then find you health insurance coverage with everything you need and nothing you don't.

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[445] They could save you hundreds of dollars a month.

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[447] Go to health trustfinancial .com today.

[448] HealthTrustfinancial .com.

[449] Thank you for listening to The Ramsey Show on the Ramsey Network.

[450] I'm Jade Warshaw next to me's Dr. John Deloney.

[451] We're taking your calls.

[452] And here's the thing.

[453] Sometimes you guys call.

[454] We have a number here that you can leave a message if you have a question or something you want to talk about.

[455] Sometimes people call and we miss the call.

[456] So if we missed your call, sorry we missed your call.

[457] We'll get to it.

[458] Matter of fact, we have a voicemail here from Meredith.

[459] Let's take a listen.

[460] I have a question about how did you go from being on welfare to being in the baby steps?

[461] It seems very, very scary to go from being on food camps and Medicaid and all of that stuff.

[462] She's switching to paying for everything yourself.

[463] I'm not really sure how to change that.

[464] I know it's a mindset, but I'm not really sure how to get from point A to point B without hurting myself and my children drastically.

[465] Thank you.

[466] Bye.

[467] Wow.

[468] Okay.

[469] That's a deep one, John.

[470] Yeah, I like you said, it's a mindset.

[471] So I want to separate.

[472] I have a close friend of mine who, right before she had child number three, husband left like was in desperate need of support and care right so I think we're I love that we can support and care people who find themselves in the margins when life happens right I get a different vibe from Meredith and I loved how she said it said it's a mindset and there can come a point when the world that we've set up for for some of our our citizens is you know what you're never going to be enough you just sit over there in the corner we're going to pat you on the head and well somebody's gonna come take care of you because you can't do this yeah and over a long period of time you begin to believe you're less than yeah that you can't 100 % and she I love this question she's asking because she's saying no I want to I want to stand up and I want to be I want to be in the driver's seat of my own life and it's terrifying because I've got this since everybody's been treating me for so long and I've been living this way that I can't I don't know how I'll never know enough I'm just going to hurt everybody I'm going to screw everything up and y 'all told me to go sit in the corner and pat me on the head you all just you all just send money in the mail and it's going to be all good and so for someone to merit the situation I think it's important to keep this one word and always keep this word front and center which is practice I'm just going to practice it's a skill that I don't have I've never done this thing and I'm going to practice this and I have to practice I've never had a high school kid I have one right now just started I'm having to practice being a high school dad because I've never done it before and I'm already not doing a great job at it right I've never been the the dad of a third grader I've never done that I'm practicing a third grade daughter I've never done that I'm practicing it similar if you've never paid for anything and often this this generational poverty can be generational right yeah you learn that you learn how to sign up on to work the system somebody hands you helps you out I've never done it before okay cool we're gonna take we're gonna take baby steps first thing we're gonna do is we're how money works.

[473] We're going to watch these courses.

[474] We're going to get a job.

[475] Well, you've also not had the opportunity to like stretch your legs on it.

[476] Because if you're in these, if you're in these programs, there's limits.

[477] Like, hey, if you if you earn beyond this, you no longer get the crutch.

[478] We cut you off.

[479] And I'm thinking about, like, follow me on this.

[480] In college, I played volleyball and I was a middle blocker and I went up for a block and this crooked thumb snapped all the way back and I tore the ligaments all the way through.

[481] And it was the most painful thing I've ever done, even more painful than childbirth.

[482] So I had this guard that I used to have to wear.

[483] And after a while, the trainer was like, hey, you got to take that guard off.

[484] And I was like, oh, I can't take the guard off.

[485] Like, I'm going to feel pain.

[486] I don't know.

[487] Like, it was, it was, it made me so afraid to play the game I loved playing without this guard on because I was like, for sure, I'm going to snap my ligaments again.

[488] And then you find yourself going up with two hands, but kind of hedge in the one.

[489] Yeah, like halfway.

[490] You're like, oh, you know, you've, you've got this.

[491] And I'm like, you're never going to know what you can do until you just up and do it.

[492] You got to stretch your legs.

[493] You got to play.

[494] You got to take the guard off and see.

[495] But she adds a very interesting component here.

[496] I don't want to hurt my kids.

[497] Right.

[498] And so there's a lot of weight on that.

[499] Hey, you just got to go, you got to go do this.

[500] But the thing is, you're on it until you're exceeding it.

[501] That's right.

[502] So once you're exceeding it, you're exceeding it.

[503] And it's like, okay, I can do more.

[504] I can keep going.

[505] I don't need this crutch any longer.

[506] It was there for season.

[507] was never intended to be something that you had for the rest of your life.

[508] And so I think that's the part she's got to understand is, okay, this was here to just kind of like raise me up a little bit and get me to that point.

[509] But I'm to that point now.

[510] I can go forward and, you know.

[511] I think you have to be real about very, very, very real about the dollars and cents.

[512] We took a call earlier.

[513] How much does my house cost?

[514] What are my electric bill?

[515] What's my water bill?

[516] What is my gas bill?

[517] What is food in this house?

[518] What's transportation look like?

[519] How stable is this job?

[520] Do we need a second job?

[521] Which child care?

[522] Yes.

[523] You have to be honest about those numbers.

[524] And it's easy to say, I just want to be done with this.

[525] Great.

[526] But if you're not ready, then - Math may not be done with you.

[527] That's right.

[528] Same as we talk to people on the other side is like, I'm just going to buy this house.

[529] Math doesn't care what you want to do.

[530] So it's being honest about these numbers and then we're going to practice.

[531] And you will mess it up.

[532] If you've never stretched your legs, you're going to fall down.

[533] That's okay.

[534] It's part of it.

[535] That's why we have coaches that walk alongside.

[536] people that's why we have budget that gives you a good framework for it um and we'll walk with you every step of the way but keep that word in mind practice any of us the the cool cultural thing to do now is to scream and yell at people who are trying to change just beat them back to the place where they deserve i i see men trying to become different kinds of men and they're beat up on both sides and what do they do they stop i don't want to take it i see women same thing see those with the least of these those who are trying to learn to give so you're You're going to have to ignore the voices, and you're going to have to go to the next right thing, and we all have to practice.

[537] It's okay.

[538] We're learning new skills, and we're going to make it happen.

[539] I like that.

[540] It's good, John.

[541] All right, let's try to take a call.

[542] We've got Darren in Boise, Idaho.

[543] What's going on, Darren?

[544] Well, good afternoon.

[545] I've got a couple of questions for you.

[546] I have He lock that I'm paying on.

[547] We had some big issues in our kitchen, and we felt that it was probably.

[548] best to just redo the kitchen and try to make a few different things work with it.

[549] We had a hole in the bottom of our oven, so we couldn't use our oven.

[550] Our cooktop wasn't working anymore.

[551] So we just, we redid our kitchen.

[552] What was the yield for?

[553] Amount.

[554] Well, it was, oh, $40 ,000.

[555] Okay.

[556] What else you got?

[557] We redid it.

[558] And then we just, we have our home.

[559] That's it.

[560] Okay.

[561] We have our home on a 15 -year mortgage.

[562] We have 180 ,000 left, and it's at 2 .25%.

[563] Okay.

[564] So my question is this, I'm 53.

[565] I'm investing in my 401K doing the catch -up, so it's like $30 ,000 a year.

[566] Okay.

[567] And I'm wondering, should I drop that for a year and pay off this C -Lock?

[568] is that going to, I mean, it's going to hurt me a little bit, but, you know, we're okay.

[569] We've got about, we're almost $600 ,000 in our 401K.

[570] Yeah.

[571] And then, and so if I do that, then also then, what is my tax liability?

[572] Because my taxable income is going to jump way up and my taxes are going to be brutal.

[573] It probably won't be that bad.

[574] No, it won't.

[575] When your tax bracket changes, your whole pay, the whole amount isn't on that bracket.

[576] it's just the amount that puts you into that bracket so you're not going to it's not going to be a blood bath here how much do you make our combined household income is about 200 ,000 bro I would here's what you've done you put your house on the block for a new kitchen I would get it again I would get you put the house on the block you went to the bank and said hey you give us a kitchen and if we don't pay you back you can have our house I would take my house I would be much more concerned long term that somebody else has the keys to my front door, then not, then any kind of interest rate, any kind of tax implication.

[577] Do you get what I'm saying?

[578] So you would stop putting money into your 401?

[579] I would.

[580] I would stop everything and pay that he lock off.

[581] Your house is on the chopping block right now.

[582] The key here is Darren, you've really dropped back to baby step two on this.

[583] We always say that if the he lock is more than, is less than half of the total value, then it goes into baby step two.

[584] So you owe 188, the HELOC is 40.

[585] So for all intents and purposes, you're on baby step two.

[586] And so that's us pausing, uh, pausing retirement.

[587] If you wanted to take some of the money that you had in savings and put it onto this and then rebuild that up, you could do that.

[588] But you're back in baby step two.

[589] Um, it's not going to take you long to pay it off and rebuild your savings and get back to investing.

[590] But that's the bed you made.

[591] And so you kind of have to lay in it.

[592] And I hate to tell you that because it feels not fun at 53 years old, but you got to made that choice this is the ramsie show before we get to the next caller i got some good news for you even when this portion of today's show runs out of time there's still plenty more for you to tune into just head on over to the ramsie network app to finish today's show for free right there on the home screen and if you don't have the app just search ramsie network in the app store google play or simply click the link in the show notes for an easy download you never know what call is coming up So be sure and check out the Ramsey Network app.

[593] From the Ramsey Network, it's the Ramsey show.

[594] I'm Jade Warshot next to Dr. John Deloney, and we're going to take your calls all hour long.

[595] We're going to help you build wealth, do work that you love, and create amazing relationships.

[596] It's a live show, so if you want to call in, you can do that.

[597] The number is triple -eight, 825 -5 -2 -25.

[598] Let's get it on a poppin, John.

[599] Let's do it.

[600] And I'll call you, Dr. Jade.

[601] I accept that.

[602] No. Don't do it.

[603] Dude, you can get them online now.

[604] It's all good.

[605] It's all good.

[606] It's a certificate program.

[607] Yeah, that's easy.

[608] What is it called when they just bestow it on you because you did something cool?

[609] Honorary.

[610] Honorary.

[611] Yeah.

[612] We had to give that to James.

[613] He wanted that, so we hooked him up with that.

[614] Dr. James Childs.

[615] Yeah, Dr. James Childs.

[616] Yeah, that has a nice ring to it.

[617] Dr. Jimmy C. Let's take a call.

[618] Let's go to Denver and talk to Chris.

[619] What's going on, Chris and Denver?

[620] Hi, how's it going?

[621] Doing good.

[622] How are you?

[623] No, I'm doing okay.

[624] I'm on baby steps two, which is paying debt off.

[625] And I've been just attacking debt, but I'm getting to the point now to where, you know, should I start putting a little bit into my emergency fund?

[626] Because it seems like every time I turn around right now I'm paying on a credit card.

[627] And it's two steps forward.

[628] step back because there's a dental bill that comes up or something we have three kids okay um so let's talk about that a little bit you're on baby step two but do you have the thousand dollars saved oh yeah okay so you're you're feeling like you just keep going through it and invent some oh yeah okay uh part of this part of baby step two uh the huge the huge crux of baby step two is budgeting and the way that you're budgeting and how you're kind of scanning the next week and the next month and the next six months to make sure that you're budgeting properly to try to avoid some of these what now feel like emergencies because whether it's dental stuff or it's something with the car.

[629] So a lot of people will utilize sinking funds if they know, okay, like I'm going to have to take, you know, junior to the dentist and it's never $100, right?

[630] So that's one way you can kind of start looking towards this.

[631] Another way you can look towards that is just to say not right now.

[632] Like if it's something that can wait, obviously if somebody's having tooth pain, it can't, you know, wait.

[633] But there might be some of the things when it comes to orthodontics and, you know, Jimmy needs braces, things like that that can wait.

[634] So tell me more about the emergencies that are popping up.

[635] Oh, it's just, I mean, now that you've put it that way, it's just sell your plan.

[636] You know, I'll be honest, I've paid off in three months, I've paid off $30 ,000 worth of debt.

[637] Wow, way to go.

[638] Can I tell you, Chris, what I hear?

[639] You sound tired, man. I am.

[640] Are you exhausted?

[641] I run a business and I'm exhausted all the time.

[642] I work six, sometimes seven days a week.

[643] Last night I got home at midnight.

[644] I was up at five.

[645] I'm at my stop.

[646] Can I stop real quick could just celebrate you, man. I know that's not going to pay your life bill.

[647] But dude, we have a culture of people who are sitting on their couch watching TV and posting and whining.

[648] And you are the man who gives me hope for the world that my two kids are inheriting.

[649] I appreciate that.

[650] Hey, I'm telling you right now, brother.

[651] You're out doing it.

[652] If I had a culture of men like you and women like you, we would have literally zero of our innate challenges right now.

[653] Yeah.

[654] I'm listening.

[655] Dude, I'm just telling you.

[656] Just dad to dad, I'm so proudy I can hardly breathe, man. It's awesome.

[657] Now you get me choked up.

[658] How much longer do you got to go?

[659] I did the debt calculator, and that's the thing.

[660] I did the debt calculator, and it said 2027, February 2027 with everything that I've got right now.

[661] Okay.

[662] consumer debt wise our mortgage will be paid off and half of it will be paid off in four years and the other half will be 10 years so half of it in four years so that's the 2027 are you including half of it in that uh well half of half the mortgage payment goes away we bought two lot.

[663] I see.

[664] I basically bought two locks and moved a mobile on it that I bought for three grand and renovated the whole thing and paid cash to do it.

[665] So now we owe, we're not, we don't do business with banks.

[666] I don't have, I have, they did an owner carry on my property and I did it that way so I could pay cash to do it and have a place.

[667] Our mortgage is $1 ,100 a month.

[668] Okay.

[669] And what's, how much is the other consumer debt?

[670] $75 ,000.

[671] Okay, and what kind of debt is it?

[672] Can you go through it for me?

[673] See if we can't shorten this.

[674] I've got a truck for $62 ,000 that I didn't really have a choice on.

[675] Tell me more about that.

[676] Yeah, you do, brother.

[677] It feels like a lot of choices.

[678] What is it?

[679] I had a 27th.

[680] I shoe horses for a living.

[681] It was 65 ,000 miles a year on a truck.

[682] 65 ,000 miles, yeah, 65 ,000 miles a year on a truck.

[683] My truck blew up.

[684] They wanted 30 grand to fix it.

[685] They had $3 ,000 on it.

[686] It was COVID 22, right around there.

[687] And there was zero trucks on the lot.

[688] And they were wanting more for some used trucks than they were for.

[689] new trucks.

[690] And I work for very high and people that have to be here.

[691] It's just...

[692] Here's what I want to get to.

[693] Because I don't want to run out of time on you.

[694] Okay, so it's a $62 ,000 truck.

[695] What's it worth?

[696] You owe $62.

[697] What is it worth?

[698] I'm $30 ,000 upside down on it.

[699] Oh, gosh.

[700] Okay.

[701] 30 grand upside down.

[702] Okay.

[703] Tell us the rest of the debt.

[704] Let's keep going.

[705] I have another truck that I bought, used.

[706] by December.

[707] Talk right into your phone because you're breaking up.

[708] Talk right into your phone for me. Yeah, go for it.

[709] I'm talking right into it.

[710] Okay, can you hear me?

[711] Yep.

[712] I owe $32 ,000 on another truck.

[713] What's it worth?

[714] $10 ,000 upside down on that one.

[715] Okay, so it's worth $22?

[716] Yeah.

[717] Okay, is it necessary for your life or can we off -haul it?

[718] Is it necessary for your business?

[719] Yes, this is what I use.

[720] primary for my business.

[721] I wanted to stop driving the one that I'm 30 grand upside down on, pay the payment, and hopefully in a year I can get rid of it.

[722] Okay.

[723] It might require you switching that ideal because it's going to be harder to get out of this $30 ,000 truck upside down than this one that you're only $10 ,000 upside down, and that could clear out $20 ,000 of debt.

[724] Look at a split if you did that.

[725] If you just got a loan to cover the difference.

[726] Well, my only thing is, is the other one that I bought is a diesel.

[727] my one that blew up was a diesel.

[728] And when the diesel blows up, it's $30 ,000 plus dollars.

[729] Okay, but there's no...

[730] The one I'm driving now is a gas truck, and it doesn't cost, the repair costs and everything on it.

[731] Hold on, brother.

[732] Listen, you're creating a world where you can't win.

[733] You're creating a world where you can't win.

[734] There's not a path for without sacrifice here, man. There's just not.

[735] We want you to win so bad, but you're going to have to make some concessions, whether you stop doing high -end horseshoeing or you sell one of these trucks or you get rid of one of the lots, you're going to have to make some hard calls, brother.

[736] Yeah, you know what?

[737] I'm interested in talking with you more.

[738] Can you stay on the line so we can talk to you a little bit longer?

[739] This is the Ramsey Show.

[740] Here's the hard truth.

[741] Your investment dollars could be winding up in the pockets of companies that hold positions that you don't agree with.

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[763] you're listening to the Ramsey show i'm jay next to me is dr john we're taking your calls matter of fact we just took a call from chris in denver he was telling us about his situation he's 175 000 in debt and right now it's going to take him until 2027 to pay it off i asked him to go a little bit more deeper into the situation it turns out he's got a 62 thousand dollar truck that he's 30 000 upside down on.

[764] He also has a $32 ,000 truck that he's $10 ,000 upside down on.

[765] And I just wanted to dig a little bit deeper.

[766] Chris, does that sound about right, bud?

[767] Yeah.

[768] Yeah, that's about right.

[769] And it's not like we're destitute.

[770] I mean, I make really good money.

[771] Yeah.

[772] Oh, I know you do.

[773] I know you do.

[774] I see that.

[775] I just want to make sure that we're making the most of this debt -free timeline because, you know, you sounded so tired when you called.

[776] in and we want to make sure you get to the light at the end of the tunnel here.

[777] So you're currently driving the $32 ,000 truck.

[778] You're driving it because it's not a diesel truck and you don't want it to blow up.

[779] But meanwhile, you've got the $62 ,000 truck sitting in the driveway, what, collecting dust?

[780] So I want to figure out the right solution on that.

[781] But tell me about the rest of the debt.

[782] I owe $40 ,000 to the IRS.

[783] Okay.

[784] And then I have, let's see, there's that and that.

[785] and then I owe 11 on a credit card.

[786] 11 on a credit card.

[787] Is there something else?

[788] 134.

[789] I don't think so.

[790] Maybe I'm wrong on the number.

[791] Okay, because right now I've got 100, 134, 144, 144, and you told me you had 175, right?

[792] Yeah, what else?

[793] Let me think for a second here.

[794] Meanwhile, while you talk about that.

[795] No, I think that's it.

[796] That's it.

[797] Okay.

[798] So it's a little less than what we thought about.

[799] First things first, IRS has to jump to the top of the list if it's not, okay?

[800] Okay.

[801] Usually we talk about the debt snowball being smallest to largest.

[802] In this case, IRS has to come first.

[803] And that's for anybody listening.

[804] If you're in trouble with the IRS, you've got to deal with that first because they're no telling what.

[805] They can garnish your wages.

[806] And then that would really put you in a dilly of a pickle, as they say.

[807] Okay.

[808] So that's for - I've got an agreement with them.

[809] I just make them a payment.

[810] Okay, but you're going to pay them more because they're going to be the number one thing in your debt snowball.

[811] yeah okay knock it out as quickly as possible yeah and I was I've got that that was next in line after the $11 ,000 credit card yes but now we're switching that and we're putting the IRS first okay got to do it that way all right uh going back to these trucks hey I really you got to sell one of them in the one that makes the most sense to sell John cut in if you want to I'm just thinking about, I mean, if you wanted to take the hit on the $30 ,000, the $62 ,000 truck and just say, hey, I'd rather 030 than 60, you could, I guess, take out a loan for the difference and be on the hook for the 30.

[812] Yeah.

[813] Let me, dude, are you frustrated with us, Chris?

[814] Like, are you frustrated with yourself?

[815] No, no, not at all.

[816] I'm just trying to, I'm a number.

[817] I mean, I know I've gotten myself into this.

[818] but I would love to get rid of the $62 ,000 truck.

[819] Then do it.

[820] Head over there.

[821] If your credit will allow you, get a $30 ,000 loan for the difference and sell the truck for $30 ,000.

[822] You're free and clear.

[823] I'd rather you owe $30 ,000 than $62 ,000.

[824] And it's going to suck.

[825] You're going to be like, why.

[826] But you've got to get out of that.

[827] The only other choice is to go and sell the $32 ,000 truck that you're $10 ,000 upside down on on that one.

[828] Can I ask you this?

[829] How much do you make, brother?

[830] Like, what's your net income from your business alone?

[831] The whole business is $175 ,000 a year?

[832] Yeah.

[833] That's after all the truck payments and everything, too.

[834] I bring in a quarter million a year.

[835] That's your bottom one.

[836] So why in the world is it going to take you two years or three years to pay this debt off?

[837] because it hasn't I mean if I did more towards it but I'm just living like I've been putting 10 ,000 a month towards debt and then I drain my bank account and then something comes up and then I got to put it on a credit card here's the thing hold some of that back a little bit yeah I mean if you know a dentist appointment's coming for your child yeah with you owning your own business there's a there's a tension here between are you going to pay yourself more and pay taxes on that and do all that whole song and dancer are you going to leave the money in the business?

[838] business and do it like that.

[839] So I think that you have more.

[840] I'm not sure the workings of your business.

[841] I don't know if you're the only employer of your business, but if you have the ability to pay yourself more so that you can work through this more quickly, I would do that.

[842] I would get rid of one of these trucks.

[843] Whatever makes the most sense, whatever one you're willing to part with, you've got to get rid of one.

[844] Maybe it's a $60 ,000 one.

[845] That's probably where I would start.

[846] You've got to move IRS to the top of the list.

[847] That's the prescription.

[848] It's up to you if you're going to take the medicine or not.

[849] All right.

[850] Let's go to Travis, who's in Dallas.

[851] Texas.

[852] What's going on, Travis?

[853] Hey, Jade and Dr. John.

[854] How are you guys today?

[855] We're doing good.

[856] How can we help?

[857] Fantastic.

[858] I am super glad to be on.

[859] Dr. John, I just finished building a non -anxious life on audio book while door dashing.

[860] Excellent.

[861] Hope you're a little bit less anxious, man. Yep, absolutely.

[862] So my question is, my wife and I are in Baby Step 2.

[863] We've got a hundred and about 129 ,000 left to pay.

[864] Um, we are, um, so basically what I'm trying to figure out is I have a loan that is a, it's a loan from a credit union from a car that was underwater.

[865] And the minimum payment is 583.

[866] Um, and there's $5 ,000 left on that.

[867] However, that is like seven debts down, the debt snowball.

[868] And so I was curious on what your guys' thoughts were in trying to pay that off a little bit more quickly to free up that $583 payment a month.

[869] So you're saying it's four debts down and the ones in front of it have a lower, have less money that they free up?

[870] Correct.

[871] It's actually, well, the IRS is on the top right now.

[872] And then one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

[873] It's actually eight debts down from the top.

[874] I mean, the truth is, the truth is, Travis, a lot of the thought behind some of the things we teach is not necessarily from a mathematical perspective.

[875] That's the truth.

[876] Right.

[877] A lot of times it has more to do with how you're feeling and what makes you feel more motivated in a moment.

[878] And so the way, the reason we teach the debt snowball is because there's something about being able to check something off a list and cross it off the list and go, okay, yes, I've done something successful.

[879] I can keep going.

[880] And so my guess is, I mean, not a guess, it's true.

[881] The ones that are before this $5 ,000 debt are a lot smaller of debts and you should be able to knock them out fast.

[882] They're $5 ,000 and lower, right?

[883] And you said it's eight that go above that.

[884] So, I mean, how much could these debts be, two and $3 ,000?

[885] Yeah.

[886] So they're anywhere between $2 ,000 and $4 ,000.

[887] And, you know, so far we've paid off about $30 ,000 since we've started with, you guys in March.

[888] How much margin are you putting every month?

[889] What's your, what's your shovel?

[890] About 2 ,000 a month.

[891] Okay.

[892] So, 2 ,000 extra, 5 ,000 total towards debt a month.

[893] So in about five or six months, you should be up to this $5 ,000 debt, yeah?

[894] If you're, if you've got a $2 ,000 shovel and most of the debts are between 2 and $4 ,000, we should be clicking up this basically almost every month, you're almost knocking one of them out.

[895] And so, Yeah, for sure.

[896] I think that's going to feel more gratifying than having the extra money there.

[897] Now, it's your life.

[898] You can do whatever you want.

[899] I'm not going to yell at you.

[900] You're the one who has to sleep in your bed at night is what I'm saying.

[901] But that's my advice.

[902] I like the bird in your saddle.

[903] I like the fact that it pisses you off.

[904] Uh -huh.

[905] Oh, yes, yeah.

[906] I like the fact that follow it in order, man, and let it just drive you crazy.

[907] Let it drive you crazy.

[908] And it's going to encourage you.

[909] I guarantee you, if you don't pay it off early, you'll get there faster than six months.

[910] Yeah, for sure.

[911] It's definitely got a motivation.

[912] When you have $175 ,000 of student loans where you started with, and, you know, I've made more progress in the past six months than I almost did in 10 years.

[913] Of course you did.

[914] That's right.

[915] That's right.

[916] And so I think the next six months to eight months are game changers for you guys, momentum -wise.

[917] There's a reason that we teach what we teach.

[918] We teach it because it works.

[919] At the end of the day, it works.

[920] We've been teaching this 30 years.

[921] Not me, but Dave Ramsey, the goat.

[922] And I've just been here, I don't know, two years.

[923] But I can tell you, it works.

[924] It works for me. My husband and I paid off $460 ,000 of debt using the debt snowball method, listing those debts from smallest to largest, making minimum payments on all, but throwing all the money at the smallest debt.

[925] This is the Ramsey show.

[926] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[927] Hey, good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[928] It's hitting us right now.

[929] got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[930] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[931] And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

[932] Here's what I've learned.

[933] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[934] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[935] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[936] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[937] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

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[941] In this upcoming season, make sure you put on your oxygen mask first.

[942] Never skip therapy day.

[943] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[944] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

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[946] Hey guys, are you ready for the secret to help you reach those money goals that you've been dreaming about?

[947] It's simple.

[948] You've got to get on a budget.

[949] With our budgeting app every dollar, you'll get intentional with your money and build the habits that will make those dreams a reality.

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[951] From your first budget to that retirement home on the beach, download every dollar for free on the app store or Google Play.

[952] Remember, today, download every dollar for free on the app store or Google Play today.

[953] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[954] I'm Jade Warshaw.

[955] Next to me is Dr. John Deloney.

[956] You can give us a call if you want us to take your call.

[957] It's AAA 825 -5 -2 -25, and we will get to you.

[958] All right, John, the Live Like No One Else Cruise is almost sold out.

[959] Can you believe that?

[960] I can.

[961] More than 80 % of the cabins are already booked.

[962] Yeah, dude.

[963] So if you want to join us in March, you need to secure your cabin today.

[964] The cruise, really, it's just the ultimate debt -free celebration, if that's the way you want to look at it.

[965] This is for people who are on baby step four and above.

[966] All right.

[967] So if you're on baby step two, the boat's going to leave without you is all I'm saying.

[968] It's not for you.

[969] So you straight up rhymed that.

[970] If you're on baby step two, the boat will leave without you.

[971] Listen, I'm a poet and didn't know it.

[972] Be rhyming all the time.

[973] All the time.

[974] Here we go.

[975] Join us.

[976] And when I say us, I'm talking about all the Ramsey personalities, Dr. John, myself, George Camel, Rachel Cruz.

[977] I'm going to forget somebody.

[978] Ken Coleman, the goat.

[979] We're all going to be there.

[980] George, George, he is campaigning for a cannonball competition.

[981] He is very small, but he is a mighty cannonballer.

[982] So that's going to be a key part of the week.

[983] It's a Speedo -only cannonball competition.

[984] That's what he's campaigning for.

[985] Obviously, Ken and I want to wear, well, Kinn wants to wear jeans shorts.

[986] I just want to wear regular regular swim trunks.

[987] But we'll get there.

[988] We'll figure out.

[989] We'll figure out the logistics.

[990] It's going to be a party.

[991] No shoes.

[992] No shirt.

[993] And I, it's also, because this is like the meeting of, this is like the meeting of the epicenter of the cult, there's going to be many punch bowls and ladles.

[994] We're just going to drink Kool -Aid.

[995] Stop it.

[996] It's going to be amazing.

[997] Okay, wait a minute.

[998] Let me go back.

[999] This is not going to be Kenny Chesney's Cruz, as I may have saying.

[1000] This is not going to be a blast cultic cruise, as John has said.

[1001] Why would you not come?

[1002] It's going to be so fun.

[1003] It's going to be so much fun.

[1004] We're going to Turks and Kekos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, Bahamas.

[1005] We've made this announcement a lot of times.

[1006] That's why me and John are cutting up.

[1007] But it, it's going to be a great, great time.

[1008] You don't want to miss this.

[1009] We're partying with Dave.

[1010] Come on, you don't want to miss it.

[1011] You can secure your spot for $600.

[1012] That's the deposit before all the cabins are gone.

[1013] So if you just like, I don't want to miss out, put your $600 down.

[1014] And book your cabin today at ramsysolutions .com slash cruise.

[1015] That's the way to do it.

[1016] We'll see you there.

[1017] We'll see you out there.

[1018] All right.

[1019] Let's go to the phone lines.

[1020] We've got Angie, who's an Albuquerque, New Mexico.

[1021] 505.

[1022] What's up, Angie?

[1023] Hello, how are you doing?

[1024] Doing good.

[1025] What's up?

[1026] So I have a question regarding my marriage.

[1027] So legally, I've been married for 13 years, but it's been on and off for a while there.

[1028] But lately, recently, within the last three years, I have been living a silent divorce with my husband as far as being emotionally, physically, financially detached from my marriage.

[1029] So I have a roommate now.

[1030] Tell me about that choice.

[1031] Why have you chosen that world?

[1032] Because there's no more connection there.

[1033] I know, but like, it's kind of a thing in popular culture to say, like, our relationship ran its course.

[1034] I just reject that.

[1035] People at the end of the day, they stop or one person just gets off the train and the other person can't keep going.

[1036] but have y 'all sat down and had this conversation, or have y 'all just slowly let this thing go out to pasture?

[1037] Right.

[1038] That's basically how it happened.

[1039] We did not sit down for it.

[1040] And I've particularly asked for divorce, but he said he's not finding anything.

[1041] So we just live like this.

[1042] The issue around all of this is this is what I'm just wondering, if it's even healthy to do this part here.

[1043] I know it's not healthy for me, but what I've been looking for spiritually is what, what they've been telling me and what I've been, you know, throughout my research is that it's better for the kids to be at home and see both parents, even though we're living in the situation, versus being separated in different homes that would be more harmful for them.

[1044] That doesn't even pass.

[1045] That doesn't even pass your smell test.

[1046] You know that's not true and you're repeating something you continue to hear.

[1047] do you think it's better for your child to walk home and see two people who say we are married and your child is downloading into their nervous system and into their heart and mind and soul this is what marriage this is what love and compassion end till death do us part looks like i know but no i don't agree with it but this is what i know people are going to say what they're going to say you know not necessarily it's like you know the bible says you know once you get married your marriage for life that's it you know your husband left you you.

[1048] And I'm saying this with all love in my heart.

[1049] He left you.

[1050] He just won't leave the house.

[1051] Well, I wish you would.

[1052] I know, but he left you.

[1053] We both did.

[1054] Then you both left each other.

[1055] And so what you're doing is you're playing legal semantics with the Bible.

[1056] Stop.

[1057] So I can't make someone fine.

[1058] You know what I mean?

[1059] There can be a no fault divorce and the judge will make you sell your house and property and divide it up.

[1060] And he will get whatever part is his and you will get whatever part is yours and you will go on about the life that you all have created for yourself.

[1061] But both of you are making a choice every single day.

[1062] And I hate to be so direct, but that's the truth.

[1063] And what you're, what I think is you're, I think you are, you're living a life as a divorced person.

[1064] That's the word you gave me. So you've already violated this, this biblical contract you're trying to stay, like you're trying to stay true to.

[1065] you've already done it.

[1066] Plus most contract, can I just say the heart of a contract is the heart of the matter?

[1067] Like, when you get married, the piece of paper is a legality, but it's more about you're saying, I'm in commitment and covenant with this person.

[1068] It's the heart.

[1069] That's really what is the marriage.

[1070] Like if we're talking about things from really like this biblical perspective, it's that commitment.

[1071] But you guys have long since detached from that.

[1072] So it's not about the legal piece of paper.

[1073] that's not Are you telling me the reconciliation's over that he won't sit down and say okay we've chosen to build this life and now we can choose to build something else No it's definitely over but again it's more towards what's going to be more like a word what is just going to be more I don't know healthier maybe you're so far ma 'am you're so far past health you're so far past that And I know it's hard because you're living in it.

[1074] You've been living in it for 36 months.

[1075] You're so far past health.

[1076] A healthy mother and a healthy dad, that's the greatest gift for your kids.

[1077] So it doesn't matter.

[1078] Rather, if it's the same household or not, regardless, if they're going to be wonderful, productive people society, it just doesn't matter.

[1079] Rather, it's the same household or not.

[1080] That's just the bottom line.

[1081] No, it's a, this is like, it's a straw man. So people ask, people ask me on my show all the time.

[1082] The question is, oh, should we stay together for the kids?

[1083] No, fix your marriage for the kids.

[1084] Like, that's a, it's a false dichotomy.

[1085] Like, fix your marriage for yourselves.

[1086] And then out of that repair, your kids get to see two people that Kate got really distant, but they made a covenant.

[1087] And they came back together.

[1088] And if both of you refused to do that, yes, then your house becomes cancer.

[1089] Stop.

[1090] But it's not just for your kid.

[1091] It's for you too and for your husband.

[1092] Can I ask a question?

[1093] Are you guys living together peacefully or is this like the worst?

[1094] No, no. I mean, we're fine.

[1095] So you're living together peacefully.

[1096] Can I ask another question?

[1097] Was there like a catalyst?

[1098] Like was there a moment that it was like, that's it?

[1099] Like did somebody cheat?

[1100] Did somebody, was there that big blowup moment or did this just slowly erode over time?

[1101] It's like I said, in the beginning.

[1102] So, you know, in the beginning of our marriage has been on and off because I had a child previously.

[1103] And supposedly he was going to, you know, love my.

[1104] my child and everything.

[1105] And just throughout the years, I realized, no, he resents her a lot.

[1106] And because of that, it's just, it just turned, turned me off completely that.

[1107] So you're, so you left him?

[1108] No, we're still in the same way.

[1109] No, no, no, no. But for all practical matters, you left him.

[1110] Right.

[1111] Okay.

[1112] Then call, call a spade a spade.

[1113] Yeah, I can't get, I can't get that love back.

[1114] It is just not, no, that's not true.

[1115] You're choosing not to, and that's okay.

[1116] You can make that choice.

[1117] No. Okay.

[1118] If you're done, you're done, you're done, you're done.

[1119] I don't, I don't, again, I don't want that to be the case.

[1120] But I also understand if you all both made a choice and let's make a choice and let's go ahead and call what we're doing, what it actually is we're doing.

[1121] This idea of a silent divorce, it's like all hipster and cool, man, you are untethered inside your own home.

[1122] So you begin to come home and you don't know who or what the energy in this home is going to be.

[1123] It's not safe for anybody.

[1124] It's not good.

[1125] be adults and let's sit across the table and let's say if we've made this choice to end this then we're going to do the right thing the next right thing if there's any chance we can choose to come back together let's make that choice and let's fight like hell to save this marriage but you'll get to make that choice listen the housing market is crazy and if you've been on the internet here's the sentiment affording a home is impossible and you're doomed to be a renter for the rest of your life right wrong george camel here listen finding a home you love within your budget is possible and I'm excited to help you get there with our brand new course, how to buy a home you can actually afford.

[1126] From saving a down payment that fits your budget to making an offer that sellers can't resist, we'll cover it all.

[1127] So if you're ready to seal the deal on the right home for you, take the course at ramsysolutions .com slash course.

[1128] That's ramsysolutions .com slash course.

[1129] You're listening to The Ramsey Show.

[1130] Next to me is Dr. John Deloney.

[1131] I'm Jane Warshall.

[1132] We're taking your calls.

[1133] We mostly take your calls.

[1134] It's a live show, but today we have a question of the day that's coming to you from why refee.

[1135] Today's question of the day, brought to you by Y -R -R -Fi.

[1136] So, now we don't recommend refinancing on everything, but for distressed private student loans, there is Y -R -R -R -R -R -R -E -Fi because they help you with low fixed rate, fixed interest rate, they help you get a low -fixed interest rate you couldn't get anywhere else.

[1137] To help you stick to your budget and get out of debt, learn more at y -refi .com slash Ramsey.

[1138] That's the letter Y -R -E -F -Y dot com slash Ramsey.

[1139] may not be available in all states all right today's question comes from Wyatt in California Wyatt writes my wife recently asked for a divorce but she wants to stay married until she finishes her MBA degree wow to complicate things my family oh nice to complicate things my family had agreed to pay for her degree when she started the program as an early inheritance for me. This guy is an honor student.

[1140] I think she only wants to stay for the free tuition.

[1141] What should I do?

[1142] If I had a beard, I'd be stroking my beard on this one because this is ridiculousness.

[1143] I don't mean this to be mean, Jade, but we're doomed just as a society.

[1144] This is bananas.

[1145] Bro, your wife left you.

[1146] she asked you for divorce there's a word oh boy it's not good if you say yes to this you gotta bounce with an ounce you have to brush your shoulders she left you she left you and there's so much complexity here yes don't pay for the wife that's leaving you that's divorcing you don't let her take part of your inheritance This whole thing is such a mess.

[1147] Yes, I would stop tuition payments.

[1148] How about that?

[1149] Let's just start there, for God's sakes.

[1150] Yeah, if you're not, the gravy train ends.

[1151] Like, at that point, like, if you get divorced, you don't get to say, oh, and will your parents please still pay for my, you know.

[1152] It's like to be at the Golden Corral and you cash out and you get your ticket and you walk to the parking lot.

[1153] And then you see them bringing prime rib.

[1154] You don't get to go back.

[1155] Wait a minute, wait.

[1156] Wait, wait, I'm going to back a truck up here and take all the prime rib out.

[1157] Dude, you cashed out.

[1158] You cashed out.

[1159] Somebody else gets the prime rib.

[1160] That's right.

[1161] You left.

[1162] It's golden corral, baby.

[1163] Wow.

[1164] Yeah.

[1165] This is a boundaries conversation, I'm guessing, John.

[1166] I mean.

[1167] There's clearly a lot of here.

[1168] She can, you don't get both sides of, you can't have your cake and eat it to.

[1169] If she says, I want a divorce, all right.

[1170] Boom.

[1171] And I definitely wouldn't drag the in -laws into it.

[1172] That just makes it even more messy.

[1173] And if you're in -laws, hear the story.

[1174] say, well, that's cool.

[1175] We still want to pay for her, for her degree.

[1176] A, they can do what they want to do.

[1177] It's their money.

[1178] And B, if it is part of an inheritance, then it will come out of a divorce settlement.

[1179] So it's not going to just going to be free money.

[1180] It will have to be disclosed as part of a divorce settlement.

[1181] And you all will figure that out in court.

[1182] And I'm heartbroken for you, Wyatt, that your wife wants to divorce you.

[1183] I hate that for you, man. I just hate it, I hate it, I hate it.

[1184] Yeah, this is, this sucks.

[1185] And if I could be ridiculous for a moment, her timing was terrible I mean like she must feel some type of way like if I'm like gosh let me I want to finish my MBA but I don't want to tell him well there's also the other side of this that like Wyatt's cheated five times and she finally says I'm out but I'm getting my my NBA team we don't know we that's the thing about these questions we never know you could you know throw a lot of different wrenches into the subject but at the end of the day it's like if you say you're done you're done here's the best way to to think of it.

[1186] The moment somebody says, I'm divorcing you from this point forward, this is no longer a romantic relationship.

[1187] This is a business transaction, period.

[1188] It has gone, we got married.

[1189] We signed a marriage contract for this reason.

[1190] This is how we're going to separate everything.

[1191] It is a business proposition from this point forward when somebody throws the D word and says, I'm divorcing you.

[1192] Cool.

[1193] Then that's how we're hanging along this.

[1194] Moving forward.

[1195] Can I ask you a question?

[1196] Yep.

[1197] I'm not trying to trip you up in any way.

[1198] So on the show, on the show, we talk a lot about money, obviously, and we always say that, you know, one of the main causes of divorce is money fights and money problems.

[1199] You're a person who's in this knee deep all the time.

[1200] Where does it start?

[1201] I think we, I mean, I think it's both ends.

[1202] So we say money is a symptom.

[1203] And I'm saying that because we've had two of these in a row of just whacked out just what's going on here.

[1204] We say that money is a symptom.

[1205] and I think it continues.

[1206] So let's take abuse and let's take just evil and put off to the side.

[1207] That's outside the bell curve in this conversation, right?

[1208] There's abusive people and there's terrible people.

[1209] We know that.

[1210] I don't think most people are abusive.

[1211] Most people are terrible.

[1212] I think most people are unintentional.

[1213] And they have a picture about what they want their life to look like and they just assume that the person next to them that they married is going to absorb into that picture, not knowing that that person has a picture of what their life is going to look like and vice versa.

[1214] and so here's a good example in my house is something so tiny that happened recently we have two dogs and then we just I got my daughter a little it's like a gremlin dog so now we have three and they fight and scream and run around I got to where dinner time was frustrating for me it just felt like so much and I wasn't being the dad that wanted to be I was finding myself snippy I was finding myself just like hey can y 'all once we backed out and my wife and I And she's like, hey, man, dinner's like our sacred time.

[1215] We always just come here and exhale.

[1216] It's where we laugh.

[1217] It's these three dogs that we took from outside are running around underneath the table.

[1218] We put them in a kennel now during dinner.

[1219] And, man. You just made a clear choice.

[1220] But it was unintentional.

[1221] And what was happening was, I didn't want to come to the table.

[1222] My wife didn't want to be around a grumpy me. So it's easier.

[1223] Hey, we're going to grab chick flay on the way home.

[1224] Right.

[1225] And so it happens by teeny tiny degrees.

[1226] And turns out it's the dumb dogs running around at the table.

[1227] so it's a lack of intentionality and a lack of saying hey this is a sacred thing for us you want this I want this how do we choose to make this happen oh we can just do that that's easy it's a lack of intentionality when you're not intentional about your money then suddenly I'm buying this you're buying this you borrowed this I want to buy this and now we have two different worlds but we live on the same couch and then it implodes right so money fights are a symptom of two people that have not aligned their pictures and have not aligned their values and have not committed we're going to forego short -term pleasure for a long -term vision of what the world we want to build together.

[1228] And it sounds like they've chosen the wrong enemy to direct their guns at, right?

[1229] That's right.

[1230] Yeah.

[1231] And so going back to the previous call, you make a choice, you make teeny tiny choices along the way that gets you this final choice.

[1232] You do that with your money.

[1233] You do that with your physical health, right?

[1234] Like my buddy Lane Norton didn't just wake up one day and win worlds he started 20 years ago lifting weights right so then every day i gotta believe it's the same thing getting back right that's that's the beauty is if you will own you and i have both made choices to choose a miserable marriage then you can both make choices to choose something amazing that's that's what's where the that's where the light in the darkness is you can choose something else it's nothing is inevitable unless outside of abuse nothing's inevitable you can choose something different together it's amazing i love that john see this is this this this You add a lot to the show, John, and I love picking your brain on stuff like this because you just have a different perspective.

[1235] And by the way...

[1236] I believe in people.

[1237] You do.

[1238] I really do, man. I like that.

[1239] I like getting to host with you.

[1240] I have to, I kind of wanted to go to John for a minute, but I also want to let you guys know before this hour ends that this hour is about to end if you're listening, you know, on your favorite platform.

[1241] But if you want to keep watching the show and keep finishing this specific episode, keep hearing from John, keep hearing from me. You got to head over to the Ramsey Network.

[1242] app in order to finish the show.

[1243] If you're on the radio, you can just keep listening.

[1244] It's still going to play.

[1245] More calls are still coming up.

[1246] We've got Christian from Madison, Wisconsin.

[1247] We've got Carol from Sacramento.

[1248] We've got a truck driver who's living out of his semi -truck coming up.

[1249] We've got a woman, Ashley.

[1250] She wants to know if she should use the money that she has to get a car or to pay off debt.

[1251] So we've got really great calls coming up.

[1252] I'm going to pick John's brain a little bit more.

[1253] But again, the Ramsey Network app is the only place that you're really going to get the full episodes of the Ramsey show like you used to, like you're used to hearing.

[1254] So you got to go over to the app.

[1255] If you don't know where it is, you can search Ramsey Network in the app store or on Google Play.

[1256] That's the way to find it.

[1257] And by the way, we're still working on the app.

[1258] We're every day we're doing things to make it better, make that experience the best we can for you.

[1259] We just started this.

[1260] So it's kind of cool.

[1261] You guys are in on the ground level and we're happy you're here with us.

[1262] But again, don't miss what's coming up next.

[1263] Head over to the Ramsey Network app.

[1264] And it'll be me and John will be in our same clothes.

[1265] Same shirt, same plaid, finishing up this show.

[1266] Thanks for hanging out with us.

[1267] This is The Ramsey Show.

[1268] Hey, you're still here?

[1269] What are you doing?

[1270] You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right?

[1271] All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free.

[1272] Yep, you heard me right, for free.

[1273] Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show.

[1274] Bada Bing, Bada boom.

[1275] I'm getting out of here.

[1276] Enjoy.

[1277] We'll see you on the app.