THIS Is How You Become A Millionaire In America Today

[0] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships.

[1] Thanks for joining us, America.

[2] We're so glad you're with us.

[3] Rachel Cruz, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality and co -host of the Smart Money Happy Hour.

[4] Ramsey Network production is super popular.

[5] My daughter is my co -host today.

[6] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[7] Jacob starts this hour in Oklahoma City.

[8] Hi, Jacob.

[9] How are you?

[10] I'm good.

[11] How are you, Dave?

[12] Better than I deserve.

[13] What's up?

[14] So I'm 25.

[15] My wife is 28.

[16] We have about $13 ,273 in debt.

[17] We are going to pay that all off by December.

[18] Go ahead.

[19] In July, we will be more.

[20] moving into my grandfather's home where he is going to let us pay rent to him, but we will basically be able to take all the money that we pay and rent and put it back into the property.

[21] The property sits on about an acre and then has surrounding 40 acres of pasture, and we would like to start farming and ranching sometime next year.

[22] Currently, we make about $92 ,000 a year.

[23] But sometime next year, my day job will give me a raise to about $100 ,000 a year.

[24] I work for my parents' roofing company, and I will basically be taking over the company.

[25] So at that point, I'm just kind of baffled because I've got so many blessings going on in our life.

[26] It's a lot of responsibility to take on.

[27] But my big question is, What should I do with the extra money that I'm going to be making?

[28] Should I put that toward the ranch?

[29] Should I put that toward, you know, after, of course, I follow through with the rest of the baby steps?

[30] Let me make sure I understand the deal.

[31] You're moving into property that is not titled to you, and you're going to invest money into property that is not in your name.

[32] So it's in our family trust.

[33] I don't care.

[34] It's not in your name.

[35] Why is it in a family trust?

[36] Well, my grandparents are still alive.

[37] They have it set up in the family trust to where it goes to the trust.

[38] The trust will basically have my dad as the executor when they pass away.

[39] The trust has a trustee today.

[40] Who is the trustee today?

[41] So the trustee today would be my grandmother, because I believe it's the trust name is in my grandpa's name.

[42] Okay.

[43] And then once she passes away, it would go to my father as the beneficiary.

[44] And then it would go, I would assume, to me. Yeah.

[45] But we've got a meeting with the lawyers that we're supposed to have set up.

[46] Let me tell you, there's no possible way.

[47] these people are trying to be sweet they're trying to plan well and they're trying to be generous to you but there is no possible way you should put money into this property unless it's in your name on the promise that three generations from now it's going to land in your name no way more going to go wrong here than go right and well and because to you know jacob this could be money that you're putting in in your own house right and building your own equity for your own family And, I mean, talk through, though, the wise, because it's a kind.

[48] It sounds like their intention is to give you the property.

[49] Yes.

[50] Okay.

[51] So they should just, my point is they should just do that.

[52] Okay.

[53] It needs to go into your name because it's unwise for you, even though the current set of players, the current set of actors are all good people and they all have good intentions.

[54] It is not in your name.

[55] And the things that can go sideways are.

[56] too numerous to count 35 years of doing this show i've heard them all okay and um you know somebody you know your your dad decides he's going to have an alcohol problem or he decides he's going to whatever or your mom accuses him with something he didn't do or i don't know i mean oh crap man crap hit and then and then he's in control of this blessing that you now have invested a hundred thousand dollars into something that's not in your name you're going to lose it all Do not do this.

[57] You know, it's okay if you want to live there, but don't improve the property unless it's in your name.

[58] And if their intention is to put it in your name, there's no reason they can't go ahead and do that.

[59] Okay.

[60] There's no estate tax planning.

[61] Is your grandfather's estate worth over $27 million?

[62] No. Okay.

[63] Then there's no reason from an estate planning perspective that they can't go ahead and move the property into your name.

[64] It does not have to stay in a trust.

[65] and it's just not necessary.

[66] This particular piece of property, it sounds like there's a whole bunch of putting a name on a deed of the person that owns the home that's still living versus it passing?

[67] Like capital gains tax?

[68] I mean, like, is there any like, it doesn't matter because if grandpa, if it was just in grandpa's name and grandpa was a car wreck and gets sued for a half million dollars because he accidentally kills somebody in a car wreck and, you know, he gets, you know, a $10 million judgment against him, then they've lost it.

[69] Yeah.

[70] And it was because it wasn't in his name.

[71] And so you just, there's all these things that can go wrong and nothing that goes right here.

[72] There's no, and there's no reason for it.

[73] So that's what I would do.

[74] And as far as your long -term investing, you've got a lot going into family business and a lot going into your land and property.

[75] Hopefully it's going to be deeded to you so you can do that.

[76] So you need to be doing for sure some other stuff like a standard retirement program, get you a couple Roth IRAs going and get, you know, get some stuff in mutual.

[77] funds where you're not all in uh uh Oklahoma farmland not that there's anything wrong with Oklahoma farmland but you don't want all your eggs in one basket that's what I'm saying so you need a good retirement program going so be putting 15 % of your income away like standard baby step four for that and if you want to do more real estate and stuff later you do that with money you save up and pay cash after you get this other thing worked out but we're not living in grandpa's house for free and then go buy rental property that doesn't You need to work through this.

[78] You need to work through this with them because this is not, it's not setting you up in a position of reasonable strength and reasonable dignity.

[79] So it's, it's unreasonable for you.

[80] It's not unreasonable for them.

[81] It's their property.

[82] They can do with it what they want to do.

[83] But I'm not saying they're doing anything wrong.

[84] But I am saying if their intent is to go ahead and give it to you, they can do it now.

[85] Yeah.

[86] Well, and I think that's what's difficult sometimes.

[87] Like with Jacob, you know, I'm like, I don't know how old he is.

[88] but 25 oh 25 yeah so I'm like that's that's that's that's the hard lessons of life that you know in his perspective it's perfect right the dominoes will fall perfectly right in a line this makes sense right and then that's where when it comes to this money stuff being extra formal in it meaning documentation contracts right will I mean like all of that it's just to cover your bases and I feel like sometimes we tend to not go as formal with family that's where you get burned exactly because you just assume everything's going to fall into place as it should.

[89] And to your point, the part part is we've seen it all, heard it all.

[90] And I think it's reasonable, Jacob, for you to go in and say that.

[91] Because they actually could say that's a great idea.

[92] Maybe they hadn't even thought about it.

[93] I don't know.

[94] And go ahead and deed it to you, and then you guys get the benefit of it all.

[95] So it's just seeing the back end of it that's always difficult, which is what we see sometimes.

[96] It sounds like they see your potential and you moving into running the family business and you taking the helm of the family over time.

[97] And so they obviously have great respect for you by all the things you're telling me. But this deal here is a little weak and y 'all need to work on it.

[98] This is The Ramsey Show.

[99] Hey, when you go against what society thinks is, quote, normal, like avoiding debt, for example, it might seem weird at first and that is totally okay.

[100] We want you to be weird if that means doing things intentionally, including how you spend your health care dollars.

[101] And one way to be intentional is with Christian health care ministries.

[102] CHM isn't health insurance.

[103] They're a health cost -sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families, like yours, take care of health care costs without sacrificing their freedom.

[104] Find out more and join at chmistries .org slash budget.

[105] That's chmistries .org slash budget.

[106] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[107] Kimberly's in Colorado Springs hi Kimberly hi Dave how are you better than I deserve how are you I'm hanging in there cool how can I help okay so I called because I recently got divorced I have three children and my former spouse when the court ordered all of the debt and all the things my former spouse was court ordered to pay off a credit card that's in my name now I we sold our house.

[108] I got all the money from the house, paid the lawyer, paid all of my other debts except this one credit card.

[109] And so my question is, so I got a decent tax return.

[110] And so I was wondering, do I go ahead and just pay it off with the tax return from my money, or do I just let him pay it as he is able to?

[111] He just got the money from the house.

[112] Why didn't he pay it off?

[113] he didn't get any money from the house because that's how much was back owed he actually still owes me another 14 ,000 that's coming out of his 401k that hasn't come through yet that's still being worked on but he didn't get anything from the house because of what's the balance on the credit card um it's about 2 ,200 what do you make um I am a stay -at -home mom so I get about 1900 in child support I have a three -year -old and then in nine and an eight -year -old, and so I stay home with them, and I use the child support in alimony to cover our bills, and then once my three -year -old goes through the free day.

[114] $1 ,900 is the total you're living on?

[115] Yeah.

[116] With three kids?

[117] Well, I'm selling everything I can, and I have a small, tiny, teeny, tiny pottery business.

[118] You know the math on that doesn't work, right?

[119] Yeah, God has continued to provide.

[120] I got about $10 ,000 back in taxes.

[121] God can do math.

[122] He can, but he's continued to provide, and I haven't had to provide, and I haven't had to use credit cards or anything, but this is the last one I'm trying to pay off.

[123] And so, Kimberly, where are you living?

[124] I'm just curious what your rent situation is.

[125] I'm in Calhant, Colorado, which is about 40 minutes away from the springs.

[126] My rent is about $1 ,150 a month.

[127] And you have $1 ,900 coming in, and you have three kids to feed.

[128] Correct.

[129] Are you planning on going back to work?

[130] I am.

[131] So we have summer coming up, and then my three -year -old should be going, to school next semester or next in the spring and so once she goes back i'm going to go back into the workforce but i got to stay home with my two big ones and so i wanted to continue to be able to do that with her so i've been selling everything i can i refinished furniture a little bit too and so i've been doing um that and then pottery and then selling all the things okay so that i can find to sell um so but you said in the spring doing the fall you'll go back to work probably in August in two months?

[132] No, she's talking about next spring.

[133] No, she, well, I don't know if she misspoke.

[134] Yeah, when she's, when she's, when, so this, when, the school year coming up, so we're going into summer now.

[135] Oh, September.

[136] August, September.

[137] So August, September, you'll go back in the workforce.

[138] Making what?

[139] I, I was a stay -at -home mom for nine years, so I'm hoping to make at least 30 ,000 a year.

[140] That's the goal.

[141] I have a degree in graphic design, but I kind of hate it with a. passion.

[142] And so I am, I'm wanting to probably do something in sales or something like that.

[143] I don't even know what I'm going to do.

[144] I'm just trying to get through the next few months doing what I can get by.

[145] Considering where you're at financially, I wouldn't pay for it right now.

[146] I mean, the hard thing is, is that it's a little bit of a gamble that you're, it's in your name.

[147] So if he doesn't pay, right, then it's all liability.

[148] But for right this moment, I don't know if I would.

[149] I mean, I mean, Kimberly, there'll be a place that, you know, there's nothing else to sell, right?

[150] I mean, like, you're going to get to a place that, like...

[151] I'm more concerned about your kids eating the MasterCard getting paid right now.

[152] So, and as long as you understand that the divorce decree says he's supposed to pay it, but that divorce decree does not have the power to take your name off of it.

[153] And so if he doesn't pay it, it's going to be you that gets dinged.

[154] Yeah, and that's my thing.

[155] So at some point, if he doesn't pay it, you're going to have to drag him back into court and or you're going to have to pay it.

[156] But that $10 ,000, I would keep for...

[157] It's $2 ,200 right this second.

[158] I want to make sure, you know, that I don't want going out the door to a credit card company.

[159] Okay.

[160] All righty.

[161] Perfect.

[162] I appreciate your wisdom.

[163] I'm sorry, Kimberly, you're going through this.

[164] Yeah.

[165] I feel like I would not have loved you well if I didn't say I think you need to lean in on this income side harder.

[166] I'm a person of faith also, and I do believe that God comes through.

[167] But I have noticed that no corn grows.

[168] Unless I sow corn.

[169] For sure.

[170] I have to put corn in the ground and then God brings the rain and God brings the sunshine.

[171] But if you sow sparingly, you're going to reap sparingly.

[172] And going along saying God has provided, God has provided, and it's going to be okay.

[173] And I don't have any idea what I'm going to be doing in August.

[174] I'm going to love you enough as my little sister to say, you need to focus in on this career piece.

[175] And you need to really start thinking about what you're going to be because you're hurting.

[176] and you've been wounded by this whole process.

[177] It's terrible.

[178] And you didn't expect to be here.

[179] Yeah.

[180] And it's caught you off guard.

[181] And I'm sitting the other side of it.

[182] And the math is scaring me for you.

[183] And so I want you to, I'm going to send you Ken Coleman's book from paycheck to purpose.

[184] And I'm also going to send you his assessment to start figuring out what it is you want to do.

[185] And let's start thinking about 10 years from today, what is the glorious most prosperous career that you're going to love and make a lot of money doing that you start working towards now and actually engage in in August rather than I think I'll maybe go into sales because I hate graphic design.

[186] I want more thought into this for you than that if I'm you.

[187] So hang on.

[188] I'll give you those two things as our gift and I'm not trying to be offensive.

[189] I know you're hurting but I'm also not going to let you just sit there because where your it's it's your numbers are really scary, really scary.

[190] So I want to see some income coming your way for a long -term sustainability for you.

[191] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[192] It's awful.

[193] When you go through, when somebody in her situation, her whole plan was to be a mom with those kids.

[194] I got to stay home with the other two.

[195] Now, I want to stay home with this last one.

[196] But all of that changed with the divorce.

[197] You don't get to make the same choices because of what's going on yeah and i think she and i think you know she said through the summer yeah i know i'm not saying she's bad no no no no but it's it well what the game has changed it's a new script yeah yeah and that's what is so i mean i'm sure for her it's so painful right just not only the divorce aspect but and i think that is hard for a lot of women it's hard for everybody that maternal instinct is so strong and for some women they you know and choose to and want to desire to dream to stay home with kids and do all of that and then when that is taken from you and you're forced back into something like this I mean it's just it's terrible it's terrible but Kimberly I really think um yeah I'm glad you called in though because I hope that this gives you some direction maybe a little bit of motivation but also um it just sucks I'm like this is this is one of those grieving things that Dr. John Delaney talks about you grieve what isn't true anymore right and that it's gone that that dream is gone now we need a new one yeah So, gang, in 2003, we launched a book called The Total Money Makeover, late 2003.

[198] So it's 20 years old.

[199] We're celebrating with the 20 -year anniversary, the 20th anniversary edition of the Total Money Makeover.

[200] The humorous thing is the total money makeovers had several makeovers.

[201] This is the, I think, fifth revised edition over the years.

[202] And it's now over 10 million copies have been sold and or given away out there that are helping people.

[203] Well, it's the simplest, most straightforward and proven plan to change your finances.

[204] It's been working since Taylor Swift started her career.

[205] What?

[206] She was brand new in 2003.

[207] She was a teenager.

[208] I was so proud of you.

[209] How did you know this?

[210] The iPhone was not going to be out for two years.

[211] Oh, you Googled the year and found all the important things.

[212] Of course I did.

[213] Of course I did.

[214] I was like, how did you know?

[215] The iPhone was not going to be here for two more years when this came out.

[216] so um you know and just think of all the other things like some of you weren't born yet when this thing came out it's 20 years old i mean oh my gosh so there you go or at a minimum you were running around in your little pamper's so um there you go hey name taylor swift's first song dave i can't was that a song no that wasn't it no tim mcgraw that's fine tim mcgraw was the name of the song oh that's great okay and now we understand how she's successful okay Solutions .com slash store, get the total money makeover 20th anniversary edition, all kinds of goodies there.

[217] And you get the every dollar premium for free in there.

[218] So scan the QR code and I get signed up for every dollar when you're looking at the brand new version of the old book.

[219] This is The Ramsey Show.

[220] You know, it doesn't take a degree in statistics to realize this one stinks.

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[249] Thank you very much.

[250] Ryan's in Pittsburgh.

[251] Hey, Ryan, how are you?

[252] Good.

[253] How are you doing today?

[254] Better than I deserve.

[255] What's up?

[256] All right.

[257] So, quick question.

[258] My wife and I, we are newly married, and one of our cars is about at 100 ,000 miles.

[259] My question for you is, when is the best time to trade in the car to get a new car?

[260] For quick, brief context, we have no debt besides the mortgage, and we do have some money set aside for a car.

[261] Okay.

[262] For a newer car.

[263] Good for you.

[264] Is it breaking down on you, Ryan?

[265] I know $100 ,000 is a lot.

[266] I just, just.

[267] 100 ,000 miles.

[268] Yeah, that's what I meant.

[269] But is it still in good condition, still driving?

[270] It is still in good driving condition.

[271] Okay.

[272] Who's driving it?

[273] My wife is.

[274] Okay.

[275] It's time to upgrade.

[276] Federal law, his wife gets.

[277] it's the good car so um okay yeah the uh and you know newly married they may not have told you about the law but um so rule of thumb is this number one always pay cash correct for whatever you drive yeah number two i would not buy a brand new vehicle unless you uh have at least a one million dollar net worth because they go down in value so quickly you really can't absorb the death blows that the mathematics give you unless you've got substantial wealth to absorb those blows.

[278] So we're going to limit that damage.

[279] And then the third thing that helps us to do that is never, really, I can think of very few times in your life, like almost never, that you would add up all the things that you own with wheels and motors, and it should not equal more than half your annual income.

[280] Because if you does, you've got too much stuff.

[281] going down in value for you to mathematically get ahead.

[282] So, I mean, if you got a $12 ,000 lawnmower, you know, that's part of the equation, right?

[283] And the people do.

[284] God help us, but they do.

[285] And so, you know, and so, you know, if you've got a C -Doo and your C -Doo has a sister and so on, these things all go down in value.

[286] And so, and, you know, I own a bunch of them too, but I, but it's, it needs to.

[287] to be a small percentage of my world that's going backwards if I want to go forwards.

[288] So as long as you're those three things, you're not buying new a millionaire, you're paying cash and you're not more than half your annual income and you want to move up in car.

[289] I'm fine with you moving up in car.

[290] How much do you guys make a year, Ryan?

[291] Combined net right now is 70.

[292] Okay.

[293] And the price range of car would be what?

[294] Right now we have 20 set aside And what's your other car worth For a used car Um It's probably Trade in value right now Around 15 Okay So you have 35 and you make 70 That's about the max That's half your annual income That's what I was just talking about Okay So you don't need to be driving to $40 ,000 cars When you make 70 because they're losing $10 ,000 a minute, and you can't get ahead.

[295] So that's about the most you ought to be driving, making $70 ,000.

[296] Now, I think you said $70 take home.

[297] So, I mean, we're talking about gross revenues, but gross income.

[298] But still, you're right in that range.

[299] So that's fine.

[300] What you're outlining makes sense, and it's okay to do that.

[301] But that's some good guidelines.

[302] And folks, it's real simple.

[303] It's not because I hate cars.

[304] I actually love cars.

[305] I've got a bunch of nice cars.

[306] I like cars.

[307] But I hate what they do mathematically.

[308] And I certainly hate when you're losing 60 % of the value in five years if you buy a new car.

[309] If you buy a $40 ,000 new car, you lose $24 ,000 in five years.

[310] You can't afford to do that if you don't make a lot of money and get ahead, not in make progress.

[311] And I'll say this too.

[312] I was interesting.

[313] There's a account on Instagram.

[314] I've gotten to know her names Kelly, but she's called The Car Mom.

[315] and she goes through and reviews cars.

[316] It's like her big thing.

[317] And she's become an expert.

[318] I think her dad, I think she's in like the car business.

[319] Her family has been.

[320] But it's been so interesting.

[321] I talked to her on my show.

[322] I had her as we're talking about used cars.

[323] And she was saying, though, how cars today, we used to say the 100 ,000 mile rule.

[324] And she's like, but the way they're built now, they last.

[325] They last longer.

[326] So that was a little bit too why I was kind of pushing on it.

[327] Again, if you want a new car and mathematically you can.

[328] But don't just assume you guys these days that, yeah, just because it has a high mileage that it's done.

[329] right?

[330] Like if it's not giving you trouble and you're content in it then if it's a Dodge neon it's probably done but it was done when you bought it so you already screwed up but I know but there are some cars that do but most cars you're right most of them are great vehicles the way that they make them now they do last I mean a dadgum Camry or a Honda a corridor run 300 ,000 miles without an eye blink yeah so you can I mean they're great vehicles she's right I agree with her yeah so you can go upgrade right in the math and everything we just talked about.

[331] But also, just remind, yeah, in the back of your head that, yeah, you may, you know, maybe high mileage, but.

[332] The first guy that ever worked here was named Russ Carroll that helped us do, and did financial counseling here.

[333] And Russ always would sit with clients and say, okay, want or need.

[334] Is this a want or a need?

[335] Here's your need.

[336] Your need is transportation.

[337] But everything above something that provides transportation is simply a want.

[338] So, and, and, and, but we justify it.

[339] It needs an airbag.

[340] It needs a this.

[341] An airbag.

[342] Yeah, probably.

[343] Well, it needs to be, my little children are going to die.

[344] And, you know, all this crap.

[345] And no, they're not.

[346] Okay.

[347] And so that's just bull crap.

[348] And so, but this thing of, you know, I, we, we justify our ego asks and call them needs when they're actually wants.

[349] Yeah.

[350] Anything above the basic service of transportation.

[351] Getting you from A to B. So Ryan moving up out of a hundred thousand mile car in his bike.

[352] That's not giving them.

[353] trouble that's not giving in trouble is a want yes and it's an okay to spend money want is fine yes okay to spend money on once i gave you the guidelines just spend money on once but we don't and he didn't he didn't yeah but don't call up and don't more importantly than us don't tell yourself that somehow this is a need oh god we're dying it's like and all this drama queen crap in your head that people do in order to justify buying something that they just simply wanted and they couldn't just own it.

[354] Just, I wanted it.

[355] Why do I buy it?

[356] I wanted it.

[357] Okay.

[358] I don't have a single vehicle today that isn't 90 % of the reason I own it is luxury.

[359] 10 % is transportation.

[360] I mean, because they're ridiculous cars.

[361] And so it's just, but it has nothing to do with nothing.

[362] It's not, not that I need to impress you with the car.

[363] That's not the point because I don't buy it for you.

[364] I bought it for me. But, um, and what you think of stoplights are irrelevant to me. But, but, but the thing that but this thing of I want the prestige of a car yeah yeah this sense of security which is false to her point a hundred thousand mile car so all of that that these are wants and so be careful is this a need or is this a want and you know clothing is a need an $8 ,000 purse is a want and there's nothing $800 purse you added some zero I don't know I've seen a lot of what are they coach or whatever these louis baton stuff whatever I mean this crap this is all there's nothing wrong with it I mean one one gun is a need oh my gosh a closet full of guns is a want that would be me okay I'm picking on your purses so I'll pick on your purse this I'll pick my guns, all right.

[365] So it's a want.

[366] And so I can't use them all at once to protect my family.

[367] So it's a want.

[368] Yes.

[369] And needs versus wants.

[370] It is though a real conversation because the expectations of lifestyle within those categories is so high.

[371] The norm already is is high.

[372] And so challenging yourself a little bit on that I think is I think is healthy and good.

[373] So so Ryan yes, y 'all can upgrade car.

[374] You got cash.

[375] It's within the mathematical limits.

[376] But just because it hit 100 ,000 miles doesn't mean you have to.

[377] do if it's not breaking on you.

[378] Oh, there you go.

[379] I'm going to close us out.

[380] This is The Ramsey Show.

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[396] Call 800 -356 -42 -82.

[397] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co -host.

[398] Thank you for joining us, America.

[399] We're glad you're here.

[400] Leslie's in Hamilton, Georgia.

[401] Hi, Leslie.

[402] Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

[403] Hey, I am so glad I get to talk to you.

[404] So my question for you today, I am 27th, and I just started having, like, any sort of concept about money, maybe, you know, three, four years ago, and I've been trying to crawl my way out of debt ever since.

[405] Well, I went into business for myself about a year ago, and I want so badly to be able to have a budget that, like, I can write down and follow, but my husband, he has, you know, set income gets paid every two weeks, but for me, my brain, it doesn't, I don't understand how I can make a budget for myself.

[406] not knowing week to week how much I'm going to make.

[407] I don't even know where to start.

[408] Yeah, so that's an irregular income, Leslie, and a lot of people, they deal with that, whether they're on a commission system or they own their own business or whatever it might be.

[409] So the way we teach people is to say, okay, so you have your husbands that's consistent, and then honestly, and I have to do this too, Leslie, for mine, you kind of guesstimate is what we say, that you kind of look ahead because you want to do the budget before the month begins.

[410] So you'll look ahead and say...

[411] You're using the every dollar app.

[412] Will the paycheck planning feature help?

[413] Rachel?

[414] Well, not necessarily depending on her income.

[415] I mean, her total income is going to be changing possibly.

[416] So, yeah, so I always just tell people to say, hey, yeah, I think that comes into play second.

[417] But to say, look ahead and say, okay, here's what I think I'm going to make.

[418] And I always kind of go on the conservative end just to make sure that all of your main bills, your four walls, food, shelter, utilities, transportation, all of those are covered.

[419] and then in your every dollar budget prioritize even visually the list of okay here is what we have to have and here's what we have to get paid so once we're paid then we know here's the categories that we're going to have and if the end of the budget if those last few categories you know if you don't have the money for it because you made a low income that's okay because they're not necessities if that makes sense but yeah the paycheck planning action in that in the every dollar app you're able to say, okay, if my paycheck hits on the 15th, here are the bills between the 15th and the 30th that have to be paid.

[420] So you're able to make sure that your income is spread out evenly throughout the month as well.

[421] So Leslie, what does your husband bring home?

[422] I think last year it was like right at in between $16 ,000 and $70 ,000.

[423] Okay.

[424] So let's call it $5 ,000 a month.

[425] Okay.

[426] And what is your worst month?

[427] What would you bring home?

[428] Oh my gosh.

[429] December, I think I've maybe made like $100 the whole month.

[430] Okay.

[431] Does that happen very often?

[432] I just hit my one year.

[433] No, so I opened my business March of last year, and I was doing great all the way up until I would say about November, and then it went dead all the way up until it maybe started picking back up the first part of March.

[434] And even now, I wouldn't say I'm doing great.

[435] So what are you making now?

[436] What did you make in March?

[437] Probably $1 ,000 all month.

[438] Okay.

[439] Okay, so you're going to get this business moving.

[440] It's not working very well.

[441] Well, and I do plan on that.

[442] So right now I only do nuisance wildlife, but I actually take my pesticide exam next week, and if I can get that, having, you know, routine places that I go and spray for bugs that, you know, every month, every other month, I have, like, set income, whereas right now I kind of just wait on someone to have a wildlife problem and I go take care of it.

[443] and you know yeah okay and you got to have a whole bunch more people calling you they got problems and that's half the problem is like i can't afford advertising because i'm barely making my bills yeah but it's not advertising you you got to get word of mouth out and you got to go talk to builders you got to go talk to people who are property managers you can say when you have problem call me and here's a card it doesn't cost anything get out there and put some shoe leather in your marketing so you need to get your income up because you need to get your income up because you're not making enough as part of the problem in this, but that's a side issue, okay?

[444] Now, if you are going to do that, you know, if you can become an exterminator while you're also working with the problem in wildlife, then you've got two pieces of your business model, then you can put together.

[445] Maybe you can turn this into an actual job, at least an income that looks like a job.

[446] So, okay, so what Rachel's saying, let's pretend your worst month was $1 ,000 a month on average, okay?

[447] Which that sounds like you've made more than that a lot of months.

[448] And this is just not, it's just been a dry spell.

[449] So let's call it.

[450] Let's say, then you would budget for it with his 5 ,000 and your 1 ,000.

[451] And then you would make a list of things you wanted to do that you did not get into that 6 ,000.

[452] And that list is prioritized from the very first thing I want to do if I get one dollar more than 6 ,000.

[453] And then once I get that thing, then what's the very next thing, number two, and the very next thing, number three, and that prioritized spending.

[454] plan then applies to your every dollar budget and then you can get that moving and that'll drop into that paycheck planning part of the every dollar app and start to work for you yeah but really what we're revealing more than anything else here is you don't really have a budgeting problem you have an income problem if you were making $8 ,000 a month and your worst month was $8 ,000 you probably wouldn't have called me saying I have a budgeting problem because you're just starving you're not making you mean you're making a hundred dollars and it was and and you know and then a thousand dollars you're not I mean you're not even making wages you could make more than this working down at Target you know and so uh that's what your main issue is but this and you're calling it a budgeting problem but it's really an income problem yeah and I would say too Leslie like if you start getting this up we call it peaks and valley seasons of income too so if you went and made 4 ,000 one month we'll put 2 ,000 aside in a completely separate separate account.

[455] I would open up one if it's going to be this fluctuating this much.

[456] And then on a down month that you have a thousand, you can pull a thousand from that account from the previous month to get what you guys need, right, to kind of make it a little bit more consistent.

[457] But you have to be disciplined in that.

[458] Or if you're just living on your husband's income.

[459] Yeah.

[460] And yours is just extra.

[461] Then the hills and valleys won't matter.

[462] Yep.

[463] But they just matter how much you can apply to other things that advance you.

[464] Matthews in South Bend, Indiana.

[465] Hi, Matthew.

[466] How are you?

[467] Hello.

[468] Thank you.

[469] Thanks for taking my call.

[470] Sure.

[471] What's up?

[472] Doing good.

[473] How would you recommend paying for dental school when I don't have enough money to cash flow the entire amount?

[474] The first thing is that dental school, medical school, nursing school, law school, what people, what they fall for and when they're pursuing one of those lofty degrees is They're just so thrilled if they get accepted somewhere that they don't even look at the price.

[475] And so the first thing is, look at the price, because there's a vast spectrum of dental school.

[476] You can spend $600 ,000, you can spend $200 ,000 to get through.

[477] It is very expensive.

[478] Dental school is expensive.

[479] It's inordinately expensive.

[480] It's more expensive than getting an MD is what we run into.

[481] But even then, I'm going to look for the cheapest possible dental school, number one.

[482] Number two, I'm going to start studying the dental industry, the labs, the suppliers, the vendors, and find who's got scholarships?

[483] There's not many of them, but there are some.

[484] And I've heard some wonderful stories of people going and doing that.

[485] And I've heard, I actually ran into a lady in the cracker barrel restroom, true?

[486] Story.

[487] True story.

[488] More information than I needed.

[489] Well, we went to Cracker Barrel and I went to bathroom.

[490] This lady stopped me. She was like, are you Rachel Cruz?

[491] I said, yes.

[492] She said, I'm here.

[493] So she went on and she said, I just graduated.

[494] True Story, Matthew, from dental school.

[495] She said, I worked for the college and she's graduating debt free.

[496] She worked for the school.

[497] If you work for the school, you get free tuition.

[498] And I was like, no way.

[499] And she was like, yes.

[500] I was like, because I hear these stories, right?

[501] Every now and then we'll hear it.

[502] So I remember tucking that one away.

[503] I was like, I'm going to remember that next time someone calls about dental school because that was her.

[504] She was right there.

[505] And she said that she graduated and completely debt -free.

[506] So there's these other avenues to Matthew that you can see.

[507] Just be thinking about a different, Matthew, than the way the standard dentist thinks about it because they come out with $500 ,000 and it's a day and it is a long, hard life if you do that.

[508] And if you don't believe me, go watch our borrowed future documentary.

[509] You'll see a dentist there that's a million dollars in debt.

[510] And you'll see a grown man cry.

[511] It's really distressing.

[512] The good news is that guy's worked his way.

[513] out of it.

[514] But wow, it was a mess.

[515] He was in.

[516] So yeah, go watch Borrowed Future and that'll scare you straight.

[517] This is The Ramsey Show.

[518] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[519] Thank you for joining us, America.

[520] I am Dave Ramsey, your host, Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, number one best -selling author, co -host of the Smart Money Happy Hour with the one -and -only George Camel and my daughter.

[521] She's my co -host today.

[522] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[523] Chuck is in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

[524] Hi, Chuck.

[525] How are you?

[526] I'm doing fine.

[527] How are you, Mr. Ramsey?

[528] Thanks for taking my call.

[529] My pleasure.

[530] What's up?

[531] Well, I'm considering paying off two vehicles that I have and my home.

[532] and my wife has been pushing me to do this, and I'm wondering if it's a good idea.

[533] Paying off two vehicles and paying off your home, is it a good idea?

[534] Well, it wouldn't be a bad idea.

[535] No, it would be coming out of my IRA, so I'd be paying taxes on it.

[536] Oh.

[537] So that's part of that.

[538] How old are you?

[539] I'm 65, and my wife is 67.

[540] And how much would it take to pay off your vehicles?

[541] If I, well, the two vehicles, I'd have to, it'd be 30 ,000.

[542] Okay, and how much to pay off your house?

[543] There's 2 ,000, that'd be 40.

[544] 40 on the house?

[545] Yeah, so I figured it'd be 80 ,000 for my IRA.

[546] So 70 ,000 plus taxes?

[547] Correct.

[548] Okay, and how much is in your total nest egg?

[549] I have about 15 ,000 in non -taxable savings, and, um, Um, probably $980 ,000 in annuities, uh, and two different investment companies.

[550] Mm -hmm.

[551] Okay.

[552] All right.

[553] So you're a millionaire.

[554] Where to go?

[555] Well, close, but, uh, yeah.

[556] No, you are.

[557] I mean, you've got equity in your house, too.

[558] Yeah, that's true.

[559] So you're, you have a net worth of over a million dollars.

[560] What's your home worth?

[561] Probably about $300 ,000.

[562] Yeah.

[563] Okay.

[564] So you're worth about a million, too.

[565] Good for you.

[566] Yeah.

[567] All done.

[568] Oh, thank you.

[569] Well done.

[570] So my son has been pushing me. I call him Dave Ramsey, Jr., because he's been listening to your program.

[571] So these people are all, and your wife is telling you to do this also, or you're wanting to do this?

[572] She's been wanting to do this.

[573] My son has been convincing me to do this based on your, but he told me I should get your opinion.

[574] Okay, I got you.

[575] All right.

[576] Yeah.

[577] So, well, the answer to the question is pretty simple, is I would pay.

[578] off the car in the house by morning before the close of business today.

[579] No question, because you'd have 900 ,000 left over and everything's paid for.

[580] Now, but more importantly than what Dave Ramsey thinks, because it's not really an issue, it is why would you do that?

[581] Well, number one question is, why would you not do that?

[582] What's the downside?

[583] There's not really a downside.

[584] If your home was paid for and your cars were paid for and you had not.

[585] $900 ,000 in your investments, you wouldn't go borrow $80 ,000 to enhance your investments.

[586] No. Well, in essence, it's the same thing.

[587] And regardless of low interest rates and things like that.

[588] Well, I mean, you wouldn't go borrow regardless of low interest rate.

[589] Yeah, that's true.

[590] And so by asking the question in reverse, that's called a sunk cost analysis.

[591] It makes me think, oh, yeah, I need to pay it off.

[592] and for the very reasons that I wouldn't go borrow if it was all paid for on it to enhance my investments.

[593] It's the same reasons I'm going to cash out $80 ,000 worth of the investments to be debt -free.

[594] It's the exact same analysis.

[595] Yeah, okay.

[596] And the other thing is, if I'm wrong and your son's wrong and your wife's wrong and you hate being debt -free, you can go back in debt.

[597] No, no interest in any more.

[598] I mean, it's not hard.

[599] You know that.

[600] You're a millionaire.

[601] You can just call up the banker and you'd have a mortgage by the end of the next day, right?

[602] They would love the loan you money, dude.

[603] You're like the kind of guy they're after, right?

[604] What makes you not want to do it?

[605] It's just because the car payments, it's not painful every month.

[606] You just don't care.

[607] I guess paying the taxes.

[608] Oh, I hate it too.

[609] Instead of leaving it and compounding and the mutual funds.

[610] Sure, sure.

[611] Yeah.

[612] And truthfully, it's that you've protected that nest egg like an eagle.

[613] I mean, you wouldn't let nothing near that nest egg.

[614] And that's how it got to be freaking 980 grand, right?

[615] Because you protected it.

[616] You put money in it.

[617] You kept putting money in it.

[618] You've kept your claws out.

[619] Nobody's touching this.

[620] And now these people are trying to get you to touch it.

[621] and you're going, I don't think so.

[622] This is not how I got here.

[623] And so that's, you know, truthfully, you're, you know, one of your greatest strengths is turning into a bit of a weakness in this particular discussion.

[624] But I'm so proud of you.

[625] I'm assuming you didn't inherit a bunch of money.

[626] I'm assuming you did all this on your own.

[627] Yeah, my wife and I worked and put a dent, a significant amount in my IRA.

[628] And the last four or five years that I worked, I maxed it all as much as I could.

[629] Yeah.

[630] That's great.

[631] I'm so proud of that.

[632] I wanted to pay it off before I was done working, but I didn't, so here I am.

[633] And I'll give you one last thing for the people out there listening and for you, too.

[634] Something else is going to happen here that you hadn't even thought about because the debt is so small as a part of what you're doing.

[635] I mean, it's like buying a biscuit, you know, and it's like, I mean, we're talking about what?

[636] Compared to, compared to your total nest egg, I mean, you've got a million, three, million two, and we're taking 80 green.

[637] Okay, yeah.

[638] We're taking 80 grams.

[639] So it's so small, it's irrelevant, really, mathematically speaking.

[640] But what you're not going to see coming is about three weeks after you pay this house off, you're going to wake up and go, I can breathe a little deeper.

[641] Yeah, the borrower is slave to the lender, and you're not going to be a slave anymore.

[642] And you're going to be able to feel that down inside.

[643] You'll physically feel it, probably, because you've been so, long at this and now it's like last step yeah and there's a relaxing no bank in your life there's a piece that goes with it yeah and and just to say it out loud people probably know but even for those that are listening they're newer we say don't take money out of your retirement to pay off debt but he's of age when you're past 59 and a half yeah then you're able to take money out yes he's still going to be taxed on that because it's a traditional IRA but if you're not if you're younger than 59 .5.

[644] No. You don't touch your retirement to pay off debt.

[645] And if your nest egg's too small.

[646] Yes.

[647] If your nest egg was 120 ,000, I wouldn't pull 80 out of it.

[648] Yeah, that's right.

[649] Because you have to live on that on retirement.

[650] I might sell the cars.

[651] Yep.

[652] But I'm not pulling 80 out of 120.

[653] So the point is it's a very small, it's more of a theoretical and emotional discussion for him than it is mathematical because it's just such a small percentage.

[654] Yep.

[655] So the math really is irrelevant.

[656] in this it's more of a man i have to i did it i did it i hit i became a millionaire in america as a working man and i saved my money and we piled up a bunch of money in the last few years of work he said and i'm not touching that and now i am going to touch it to pull the money out but he did it and now i'm debt -free and the house is paid for yeah and the cars are paid for it's like touchdown yep touchdown baby i mean you just broke the tape on the marathon after 26 .3 miles house.

[657] You just broke the tape.

[658] You leaned into it, baby.

[659] Well done.

[660] Touchdown.

[661] I love it.

[662] This is the Ramsey show.

[663] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co -host today.

[664] Thank you for joining us, America.

[665] We are glad you are with us.

[666] Well, if you are on baby step four, which means you're out of debt, everything but the house, and you have your emergency fund in place, fully funded at three to six months of expenses.

[667] That's one, two, and three.

[668] That means you're at baby step four.

[669] You're starting to invest for retirement.

[670] Five is kids college.

[671] Six is pay off the house early.

[672] Or seven is your debt free everything.

[673] If you're anywhere in four and beyond, we invite you to live like no one else.

[674] Because we tell you to live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

[675] That's the idea, right?

[676] So we have the live like no one else cruise.

[677] Yeah, that's right.

[678] We're going on Holland America, which is a fabulous line.

[679] We're going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, San Juan, the Bahamas, all the Ramsey personalities, plus a bunch of other special guests like my friend Stephen Curtis Chapman is going to hang out with us.

[680] My friend, Manit Shohan from the Food Channel, Iron Chef winner, Dina Carter, famous, remember strawberry wine, famous country singer, yeah, is going to be with us.

[681] And several other people, quite a boatload of stars, including all the Ramsi personalities.

[682] is we're going to be doing events on the boat through the whole time talks on the boat it's going to be it's a ship the whole not quite calling it a boat my wife gives me a hard time so anyway the thing is almost sold out it's not yet sold out but it's like 70 % gone and it's only been up for sale for three and a half weeks and it is next march 22 through 29 of 20 of 20 25 so go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash cruise and before the cabins are gone because they're going to be gone.

[683] And we would love to have you if your baby step four and beyond.

[684] Please do not go into debt to do this.

[685] We don't need your money that bad.

[686] You can come on another one.

[687] And please don't do this if you don't have your emergency fund in place and you're in debt.

[688] So it's baby step four and beyond.

[689] Live like no one else.

[690] So later you can live and give like no one else.

[691] So this is the live like no one else.

[692] We're not hypocrites.

[693] We're not trying to get people to do something.

[694] can't afford to do.

[695] We want to give you a place to celebrate, though, for those of you that have made the journey with us and you're further up the baby steps.

[696] And so it's going to be a lot of fun.

[697] We're going to have a blast.

[698] And we're all going to, all the Ramsey personalities are going to be on the ship the entire week, including Sharon and I. So we would love to have you guys that come as our guest.

[699] Lucas is with us in Nashville.

[700] Hi, Lucas.

[701] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[702] Hey, Regal.

[703] Hey, Dave.

[704] How you all done?

[705] Great, man. What's up?

[706] I work in the media industry for about 13 years, and I made a move to Nashville because I'm trying to switch industries over into aviation industry.

[707] I'm a private pilot, and I'm trying to finish it up my training to do that full -time.

[708] Paul moving here took a job, was looking for something like either remote or part -time, just to add supplemental funds to be able to fund the training, and started out of business.

[709] It was fantastic and ended up kind of going into that, taking on a lot more, taking on a lot more roles, and got kind of integrated into the business.

[710] I hear about two months ago, the owner let me know that he wasn't going to be able to pay me and that he'd be able to get money soon.

[711] But since then, I'm three paychecks behind, and I'm in a position where I felt like if I leave or save me, something about it and then I'm kind of putting the last stake into the company and kind of hurting a friendship that I've built but also aware that it's slowing down my life goals.

[712] No, it's not life goals.

[713] That's not the problem.

[714] The problem is friends don't do this to people.

[715] I'm with you.

[716] So you haven't built a friendship.

[717] You've built a relationship and you care about these people but they're not taking care of you.

[718] 100 percent yeah and so and what you're describing to me is you're not really getting much communication about because dude if somebody's not paying me i want to know a lot of detail as to why that that's where i'm at and you're not getting because i've personally signed clients signed a quarter million in clients so i'm like where's the money oh that's a fair question So, yeah, I don't think you're going to be there in 30 days, but if you want to give it one last Hail Mary, it would be sitting down in person with the owner and saying, okay, I am officially done unless you clue me in on every detail here because I signed a quarter million dollars worth of people and I can't figure out why I didn't get paid.

[719] Where's the money?

[720] Yeah.

[721] It's a fair question.

[722] Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at.

[723] I'm trying to get to a place where I'm not feeling responsible for...

[724] You're not responsible.

[725] That's it.

[726] That's the part, Lucas, for me, that I'm like, you've, you know, yes, is your work there vital?

[727] And is it the linchpin on a lot of what's going on?

[728] Possibly, because you're good at your job.

[729] But that's not your responsibility.

[730] That's not your responsibility to hold the company together.

[731] That's the freaking owner and CEO's responsibility.

[732] So for you, I'm like, I would not, that's emotional bandwidth that you don't need to have.

[733] I mean, you don't.

[734] You are a team member there on the team.

[735] But if Lucas leaves and the whole thing dissolves, that's not your fault, Lucas.

[736] Like, that's not your fault.

[737] And by the way, you're not just up and leave because you were mean.

[738] You didn't get paid.

[739] You've been working for free.

[740] Hello.

[741] You know?

[742] And so, yeah, there's a lot.

[743] There's a lot wrong with this.

[744] You sound like a nice guy, but they're probably taking advantage of you, too, Lucas.

[745] Yeah, I don't, I don't think you're going to make it there, and I don't think they're going to stay open.

[746] I don't, I don't, I mean, here in that it just kind of confirms.

[747] Like, I have a feeling that I am, you know, doing it to myself, like, going myself into it like that.

[748] Yeah, you are.

[749] I have a track record for getting kind of 100 % into everything.

[750] Hey, I love getting people giving 100%.

[751] But you've got to think about what you're giving 100 % to.

[752] Yeah.

[753] You're not getting 100 % back.

[754] You're not even getting 50 % back.

[755] you're not even getting a paycheck back.

[756] Yeah.

[757] You know, so, I mean, it's like if the tables were turned and you're the owner and your back was against the wall and one of your key people was on the other side and you couldn't pay them, I know what Lucas would do after talking to him for just a few minutes, you would give a thorough, detailed explanation and say, if you'll join arms with me in this and help me turn the corner, I'll make it worth your while.

[758] It's going to be a minute until we get this other thing to clear, and I'll show you what it is, and you would tell them what the flip is going on.

[759] Or we're in a bad position, Lucas, and it's not good for you to be here, so we're going to have to let you go.

[760] We can't afford to keep you.

[761] I pray you go make more money somewhere else.

[762] Like, that's another one of the thing.

[763] If I actually love you, then I want what's good for you.

[764] Yes, yes.

[765] Yeah.

[766] Is it being, like, bad to myself or, like, dumb to me?

[767] If it's like financially I can, like, stick it out to try to, like, help in any way I can with what, you know, communication I have.

[768] Well, I don't think, you know, they haven't earned you.

[769] Yeah.

[770] With the way they've treated you.

[771] If you wanted to donate some of your time, so to speak, because you're able to, in order to help this business turn, because you believed in these people.

[772] But, dude, the people you're describing to me, I don't believe in them.

[773] I'm with you.

[774] Because, you know, you need more than just, oh, it's all going to work out, dude.

[775] Yeah.

[776] While I cash $250 ,000 worth of checks and you don't get paid, I can figure it.

[777] Yeah, that didn't, no, I need an explanation.

[778] It's a Jerry McGuire moment.

[779] Show me the money, you know, and it's like, whoa.

[780] So.

[781] And this isn't even your end goal of a career track, right?

[782] He just got sucked into it.

[783] It was a supplement, yeah.

[784] But he cares, thank God.

[785] A team member that cares, that's wonderful.

[786] And he cares about the people, thank God.

[787] Yeah, but they're taking advantage of them.

[788] Oh, definitely, definitely, definitely.

[789] And I don't know whether it's a lack of business acumen, lack of basic relational skills, or they're crooked, or all three.

[790] But you're due a lot more explanation, detail than just, hang on, it's going to be all right.

[791] no not I'm not going to do that this is the ramsie show Rachel Cruz Ramsey personality is my co -host today today's question of the day comes from Denise in ohio she says my husband refuses to sit down and talk about a budget he doesn't want limitations on how he can spend our money I never know when I'm going to come home and find a new vehicle in our driveway Geez.

[792] He has two muscle cars, a truck, several all -terrain vehicles, motorcycles, and plans on always having a car or motorcycle payment.

[793] This has forced me to separate our finances because I have no doubt that he would find the way to spend my money along with his.

[794] We both contribute a portion of our income to pay bills.

[795] He wants to be in charge of that, but is regularly late on payments.

[796] Lately, he's been telling me not to put money in my 401k or I'll lose everything.

[797] He doesn't have any retirement savings except what he invests in silver.

[798] I don't know what to do, but make sure that I have a secure retirements.

[799] I don't know what to do.

[800] D -I -V -O -R -C -E.

[801] That's the only way you're going to be secure in retirement.

[802] This guy's out of control.

[803] No, you're not married to a man. You're married to a child.

[804] I want to buy me a big crack and you can't tell me I can't buy.

[805] big trick mama you can't tell me nothing and the world's going to come to an end anyway so i'm gonna put my money in silver it's a freaking four -year -old i just guys disgusting he's disgusting i don't know what you're still doing there i mean you're you're married to the equivalent of an alcoholic who does cocaine i mean this is so out of control such self -centered by behavior such immature behavior it's hard to measure so i you know the only hope you've got is to sit down and see a marriage counselor and let them give you the words to guide him into the marriage counseling office uh with your pastor or with a good marriage counselor that's trained or however i don't care but um someone needs to be giving you words other than me because i'm just so pissed at this guy right now, he's useless.

[806] But so, I mean, unless he changes, if you stay married to him, you're going to be broke your whole life and frustrated because the anger is dripping out of it.

[807] Well, and just the selfishness in it all, not only does he not want to talk about it, he's making decisions without you, all of this.

[808] And that's not just with the money side.

[809] That's probably happening in every part of your marriage.

[810] He does whatever.

[811] This guy does whatever he wants to do whenever he wants to do it.

[812] He has no limitations on him whatsoever by anyone.

[813] He likes one person on the planet himself.

[814] Selfish is what we call that.

[815] It's the opposite of selfless.

[816] I can't even imagine what Winston Cruz would do if you came in and started acting the way this guy's acting.

[817] Or if he, if Winston Cruz came home acting the way he's acting.

[818] I mean, like, either way.

[819] Yeah, I can't even imagine.

[820] Well, it's just a spouse.

[821] And that's the thing that's so hard, you know, not only is the financial decisions that he's literally making in reality of buying very expensive things, not saving all of that.

[822] But let alone the spouse that's like, why is, I just disrespect.

[823] Well, and it's just the spouse, too, that just says that first line, he refuses to even talk about the budget.

[824] Like, even that in and of itself.

[825] I do what I want to do.

[826] It's showing, yes, this level that you're not seeing marriage as a team at that.

[827] point and she's suffering.

[828] Denise suffers because of that.

[829] So Denise, if you were my little sister and I loved you, which I do, I would say, I don't want your marriage to end, but I think your husband has chosen to end it.

[830] So what I would tell you to do is to go see a marriage counselor and he won't go because he won't do anything that it's not about him.

[831] And the marriage counselor a proper series of steps to confront and ultimately lead to what we call an ultimatum, which is either Bubba, you're going to get in marriage counseling with me, and we're going to start handling our stuff together, and we're going to both have a say in this, and you're going to start respecting my viewpoint, not just yours, and either of those things are going to happen, and we're going to start handling money together, and we're going to start being wiser, or I'm not going to be here.

[832] So you are going to choose to be divorced, sir, if you don't agree to make some changes.

[833] That's what you're telling him.

[834] The result of use continuing to do this is going to be, I'm gone.

[835] And you need someone to guide you in that process, not me, not just me getting fired up at this guy.

[836] That's not, I don't want to transfer that to you.

[837] But you need to sit down with a coach, a counselor, a marriage counselor that can guide you in much better, much better than I can.

[838] can, Rachel can, but we'll guide you in a series of conversations with your husband that lead to finally saying either you stop this behavior and we get on the same page and we go to marriage counseling where you start respecting me and loving me as much as you love you, or we're going to call this.

[839] I'm done.

[840] Because you're going to, this is a, you can't fast forward this in your mind, Denise, 20 years to see where y 'all are.

[841] You have a lot of rusty trucks in the yard.

[842] That's where you are 20 years from now.

[843] And it's sad.

[844] I mean, he chooses that over you.

[845] I mean, is what it ends up being.

[846] And it's really sad.

[847] Yeah, this guy's got issues.

[848] His mommy and daddy never told him no. And how dare his wife be a grown -up?

[849] Mm -hmm.

[850] Yeah, that's what's going on.

[851] When I was growing up, they don't say this anymore.

[852] It's a saying people don't use anymore.

[853] That if you never tell your, your child know and you buy them everything, they do not learn the ability to have self -disciplined because they've never had discipline.

[854] And when I was growing up, we called that so -and -so was a spoiled child.

[855] People say that.

[856] Like spoiled mayonnaise.

[857] Have you ever spelled spoiled manas?

[858] It stinks to high heaven.

[859] Spoiled children stink worse because they become Denise's spouse later.

[860] And that's what this is.

[861] This is a spoiled, brat little boy that you chose poorly when you married.

[862] Or he, well.

[863] No, really.

[864] I mean, seriously.

[865] I'm not saying that because I don't know.

[866] I don't know the story of that.

[867] But he sucks now.

[868] So there's no question about that.

[869] Yeah.

[870] Connor is in Minneapolis.

[871] Hey, Connor.

[872] How are you?

[873] Connor?

[874] Good afternoon.

[875] Hey, what's up?

[876] So I'm looking to save some money to invest in some form of, entrepreneurship after I graduate college next May currently I'm caught between buying a vehicle to see my family and friends on the weekend back home or staying at college to complete this internship I committed without buying a car to maximize the money I can make how much money have you are you saving up for your entrepreneurial endeavor sir well I would be able to to save five grand this summer additionally if I didn't buy a car.

[877] And you're going to buy a car that's five grand?

[878] That's probably where it would go, yes.

[879] Yeah, okay.

[880] That's okay.

[881] If you don't have a car and you buy a $5 ,000 car and you pay cash for it, I would buy the car.

[882] You'll find a way to do the other entrepreneurial things.

[883] You'll scratch the money together.

[884] It may delay that a little bit, but what you're doing is not unreasonable.

[885] You're in college, and if you delay starting a business a little bit, So you have a $5 ,000 car.

[886] That's not an unreasonable decision, sir.

[887] Okay.

[888] I'm all about business.

[889] I've been an entrepreneur my whole life.

[890] I started cutting grass when I was 12.

[891] So I've been, you know, I've been self -employed, straight commission just about my whole life, all but about three or four months probably.

[892] Actually, I did have a real job one time, but it didn't last.

[893] And so, yeah, so I believe in you.

[894] I want you to be an entrepreneur in the future.

[895] But I don't think this 5 ,000.

[896] decision is going to keep your dreams from coming true.

[897] As a matter of fact, it might actually facilitate your dreams coming true.

[898] As you can actually get around, you have transportation.

[899] Hang on, I'm going to send you a copy of the book, Entree Leadership, that was a number one bestseller.

[900] It's how I grew my business.

[901] And so, since you're a great future entrepreneur, I'm going to help you with that as my gift.

[902] This is The Ramsey Show.

[903] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today.

[904] Matthew is in Springfield, Missouri.

[905] Hey, Matthew, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

[906] Hello.

[907] Hi, what's up?

[908] Well, recently I found out I was having a baby and got engaged, and she has a daughter of her own from before we were together.

[909] So I started getting serious.

[910] I own a construction business.

[911] Started getting serious about paying some stuff off.

[912] The baby's kind of making me, you know, sweat a little bit because it ain't just me anymore.

[913] Good for you.

[914] to take care of.

[915] Good man. Well, I've had a construction business and had a ton of debt, had about 30 employees.

[916] We, you know, we're doing $4 to $5 million a year for about three years in revenue.

[917] And for 23, I thought, you know, I was on my high horse, thought I was, you know, it, you know, and taking on a lot of debt.

[918] And then things slowed up last year.

[919] I had to lay off, continue to lay off more and more people.

[920] And it kind of just snowballed down.

[921] What is the debt for?

[922] Oh, just random things like business loans.

[923] A lot of it was equipment that I've currently liquidating most of it the best they can.

[924] Okay.

[925] How much debt have you got?

[926] All together, including my personal, is $360 ,000.

[927] Honey, it's all personal.

[928] You signed forever a bit of it.

[929] Some of it's in the business bucket, but the bank doesn't call it that.

[930] They call it they have Matthew on the hook.

[931] so 360 how much do you own a home yes I do is that part of the 360 no that that is not so you have 360 ,000 not counting your house on what just owning vendors and getting behind I had a bad dealing a guy owes me 120 grand went to court got a judgment now we're trying to collect on the judgment it's mostly vendors and It's equipment.

[932] How much do you owe on your equipment?

[933] On equipment, things that I could sell right now is about $73 ,000.

[934] I'm sorry.

[935] Why couldn't you sell all of it?

[936] Well, right now I'm upside down.

[937] Yeah.

[938] Most of it.

[939] How much do you owe on equipment?

[940] 73 ,000 is what I got.

[941] You said that's what you could sell.

[942] You owe more than that on equipment.

[943] No, $73 ,000 is what I owe on the equipment.

[944] equipment.

[945] That's everything on the equipment.

[946] So you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have vendor debt to the tune of $290 ,000.

[947] Yeah.

[948] And a $120 ,000 judgment lien that's an asset.

[949] Yeah.

[950] So one 70s left.

[951] How much of it is like, just, she, he's not getting that judgment.

[952] So, um, but that's okay.

[953] Uh, anyway, uh, I mean, I don't think you're going to collect on that judgment.

[954] Do you, Matthew?

[955] Well, we, we'll hear next week.

[956] supposed to respond.

[957] No, I mean, the guy you sued doesn't have any money.

[958] Yeah, I would assume so.

[959] Yeah, I would assume so, too.

[960] So you're not going to get any money.

[961] Lawsuits don't make people have money that they don't have.

[962] Yeah.

[963] So you're not getting that money.

[964] So what have you been making profit in the last 12 months?

[965] I don't really know exactly the answer to that.

[966] It's been a downward, like up and down.

[967] And in about, I would say, October last year, it kind of fell off a cliff.

[968] I know my monthly revenue has been about $250 ,000 per the last part of last year each month.

[969] Then it went down and down, and right now it's about $40 ,000 a month.

[970] Okay.

[971] And what were you doing that was $200 ,000 a month in revenue?

[972] We were building custom homes, you know, multimillion -dollar custom homes, is what we were specializing in at the time.

[973] How many homes do you have now that are just spec out there?

[974] I don't own any.

[975] I don't even actually have any new construction projects going on at the moment.

[976] Okay.

[977] So here's the thing.

[978] It sounds like, and I work with entrepreneurs all the time.

[979] We've got about 10 ,000 of them in our Ontario leadership program, okay?

[980] And it sounds like you're really good at building houses.

[981] It sounds like you're a very hardworking guy.

[982] And you really suck at running the business.

[983] Yeah, I would agree with that.

[984] That's what it sounds like.

[985] Because you don't know any of your numbers.

[986] You don't know where the money's coming from.

[987] I grew up in the building in real estate business, and I can't figure out how you thought you were making $200 ,000 a month building custom homes.

[988] Because if you build a $5 million custom home, and if you make, if your builder's fee on that's $500 ,000, $600 ,000, you know, it's going to take you 18 months to build that house typically.

[989] And that's not $200 ,000 a month.

[990] And if you'd have to be rolling these things off one a month rolling off the end of the line to be making that kind of money.

[991] I'm sorry.

[992] I admit that was my gross revenue, including like money that came in and I had to pay subs and I had to pay a lot.

[993] We had.

[994] Oh, okay.

[995] That's the customer paying you for building their house.

[996] and you're supposed to pay the subs that built their house.

[997] It's not even your money.

[998] Yeah, yeah, that was just my revenue.

[999] No, it's not your revenue.

[1000] It was money coming in.

[1001] It was money.

[1002] Your revenue is money that your company is actually making in profit.

[1003] Your revenue is the builder fee.

[1004] Your revenue is not the $2 million it takes to build the house.

[1005] That's the customer's money.

[1006] Follow me?

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] Okay, so you don't, you never saw.

[1009] So how many houses a year were you building?

[1010] Uh, last year, uh, we had 10 total, um, start, finish and then just various remodel projects in between, uh, couple of framing jobs.

[1011] And you don't have anything going right now?

[1012] Right now I got one addition.

[1013] Um, it really, you know, interest rates went up and building kind of can't help my area, um, for, you know, what I, the area that I was working in.

[1014] I got you.

[1015] Now I'm trying to, you know, get some more work framing or doing.

[1016] something elsewhere but I'm down to just two and the 75 ,000 and so the vendors that haven't been paid those are actually who you're in a mess those are actually customers money that you've used yeah the vendor that it's roughly I don't know exactly yeah like subs subs that did work on my house that you were building for me and you didn't pay them they're going to put a lien on my house right uh yeah yeah yeah this is really dangerous um okay scary stuff so um wow yeah you had no bookkeeping systems and processes nobody watching the the flow of cash nobody watching the flow of cash that knew what they were doing and it just money coming money going out and when the music stopped there weren't enough chairs.

[1017] Do you saw people on payroll, Matthew?

[1018] Just two people.

[1019] I laid everybody off.

[1020] That was W -2 employees.

[1021] Yeah, that's good.

[1022] I'm sorry.

[1023] And what I kind of come to realize.

[1024] How old are you?

[1025] I'm 23.

[1026] What, what do you, what, I mean, seriously, I'm like, do you liquidate assets?

[1027] Like your home that you have?

[1028] So what is the equipment that you own, the 70 ,000?

[1029] It was pretty much enclosed trailers, all enclosed trailers.

[1030] I've already sold the skids deer, the goose neck.

[1031] I've already sold those, but I didn't have any loans on those.

[1032] Those were all cash.

[1033] I paid for in cash.

[1034] So, you mean like an 18 -wheeler trailer that you're using for storage on sites?

[1035] Like there's enclosed trailers, like that you pull behind pickups.

[1036] I had quite a bit of them.

[1037] I think seven at one time.

[1038] Okay.

[1039] And they're all up for sale, and you're trying to get them sold for whatever, but they're not going to bring the full 70.

[1040] Yeah.

[1041] Yeah, that's where I'm out.

[1042] What do you owe on your pickup?

[1043] That or I could let them get repossessed.

[1044] I really don't.

[1045] No, you need to sell them because when they repossess them, they're going to sell them for nothing and sue you for the difference.

[1046] What do you owe on your pickup?

[1047] Oh, my truck.

[1048] I owe $12 ,000.

[1049] Okay.

[1050] All right, you're going to have to go all the way back to the beginning and start your business over because you were really good at it when it was small and go from there.

[1051] And I'm going to give you an entree leadership coach to help you as my gift because I want to help you turn this thing around for this baby because I've been 20 and scared and didn't know what I was doing.

[1052] I've been right where you are.

[1053] Hang on.

[1054] Kelly's going to pick up.

[1055] We'll get you with one of our entree leadership people and help you walk through this untangle all this barrel of fish hooks.

[1056] Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people, build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[1057] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality Number One, bestselling author, host of the Rachel Cruz show, and my daughter is my co -host today.

[1058] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -225.

[1059] Benjamin is with us in Los Angeles.

[1060] Hi, Benjamin.

[1061] Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

[1062] Hi, thank you so much for taking my call.

[1063] Sure.

[1064] How can we help?

[1065] So I am brand new to the trying to get out of debt and change my life.

[1066] Probably only been listening to you guys for maybe two or three months.

[1067] And I come from a not wealthy backup.

[1068] My father doesn't even have a retirement, so I've got to try to plan to kind of take care of him when he can't start working or stop working and me and my life just had twins about seven months ago oh congrats thanks um but my my question stems from i am trying to start me and my family off with babysat one of trying to get ourselves out of debt and moving forward but my wife doesn't fully feel on board to kind of change our living and thinks we're just doing fine when we're going paycheck to paycheck.

[1069] And so I'm wondering, you know, how do I kind of get her on board with this idea and help figuring that whole, navigate that whole situation?

[1070] Do you handle most of the finances, Benjamin, in the house?

[1071] So she won't allow us to combine them.

[1072] so she has her paycheck that pays our mortgage and then I'm supposed to cover all of the other bills with my paycheck.

[1073] How old are you guys?

[1074] I'm 34 and...

[1075] How long have you been married?

[1076] Four years.

[1077] And she's how old?

[1078] She's 23.

[1079] And you've been married four years?

[1080] Oh, sorry, she's 24.

[1081] Before, we got married when she was 20.

[1082] Okay.

[1083] So you're a 10 -year difference age -wise.

[1084] Well, she's probably not feeling, because she said she's not feeling the paycheck to paycheck, and she's probably not if she's making a better income and her only bill is the mortgage and she's just living her life.

[1085] And, you know, you're the one that's feeling more of the tension.

[1086] And so I think that's an issue in and of itself that I think would be.

[1087] be fair for you to sit down and talk about the it's the why behind benjamin i mean that's what we always say to start with and your why of wanting to do this is what because you're stressed because you're scared if something happens like you know you're not going to take care of this family like what's the what's the what's the why for you from wanting to even engage a different process financially um i mean the why for the why for me is just that i um we just had we just had kids and like my car needs some work, I have picked up a second, I've started hanging TVs and doing contract IT work in order to put stuff together.

[1088] What normally happens, what normally happens when someone first finds a stuff and they start getting really excited about what their future could look like if they were out of debt and in control with their money because they're in debt and out of control with their money.

[1089] And they run into their spouse all excited and jumping up and down in the kitchen and say I'm going to sell your car right they run into the kitchen all excited jumping up and down start talking about what we need to do we need to get on a budget we need to cut our spending we need to get in control we need and you start talking about the what and rachel was saying you probably led with the what and if that if you did that you're normal by the way that happens a lot and if you led with the what you've turned my name into a cussword in your house.

[1090] Got you.

[1091] Okay.

[1092] Instead, reset, go in and say, honey, I approach this whole subject that's really important to me, poorly with you.

[1093] I goofed in how I approached you with it, and I'm really sorry.

[1094] You owe an apology.

[1095] Then reset and say, and the reason I'm so excited about this stuff, and I think it's really important for us to work together.

[1096] is because I'm scared to death we've got two kids I'm out hanging freaking TVs at 34 years old because I'm scared and our money's out of control and it's and I don't see a good future of us running this household separately I don't see a good future if we keep doing things the way we've been doing them and I don't like it the way it is and it's really bothering me and when I found this stuff it made me it gave me a little bit of hope and I got a little too excited maybe but honey I can't keep going like this this is killing me that's a why yeah that's a why I want to be a good dad I want to provide for our children I want to retire with several million dollars and sit on a golden rocking chair that's a why not we got to sit down we got to get on a budget we got to get this stuff going we need to work these baby steps those are what's okay and if she hears your heart and then turns a cold shoulder to you you don't have a money problem you've got a marriage problem the phrase you used a while used a while ago ran a chill down my spine my 23 year old wife won't allow you said yeah to which i own most laughed.

[1097] Okay.

[1098] That's how crazy that is.

[1099] On either side.

[1100] Yeah.

[1101] She says my husband, because we, Benjamin, we get on people that say, yeah, if there's a lady that calls him, my husband won't allow.

[1102] I've been married 43 years.

[1103] If my wife, if I told my wife I wouldn't allow her to do something, I'd wake up dead.

[1104] You wouldn't wake up?

[1105] Well, so, so Benjamin, honestly, I think that first part's important, the why, and any spouse, this is true with anyone that we get a call, if you can't go to your spouse and say, here's my fear, and it's vulnerable, right?

[1106] Here's my fears.

[1107] Here's what is scaring me. Here's what I'm excited about.

[1108] Here's what I think could happen.

[1109] Like, when you do all of that and they still just, and some will, then again, that's a whole, that's a marriage topic.

[1110] That's not a money problem.

[1111] You got a marriage problem.

[1112] But then number two, Benjamin, too, you have to paint the vision for her as well.

[1113] Show her, not just the what, or the why, but the how.

[1114] So just on a, like, get a sheet of paper out and just put some numbers down realistically and say, hey, okay, here's what, here's why I'm excited.

[1115] Here's what we make.

[1116] Here's what we make combined.

[1117] Here, here are our bills.

[1118] Here's our debt.

[1119] You know, if we had this much margin, we could be completely debt -free.

[1120] This, that frees up X amount of payments per month, $1 ,400, $1 ,000, $2 ,000 of just payments that we have.

[1121] And if we invested that, babe, by the time we're 45, like, that's what this could look like, right?

[1122] Like, kind of do some, do some math and just show her the the vision on what you've captured it.

[1123] Yeah.

[1124] And so, and bring her along in that.

[1125] So say the why, say the why and the how.

[1126] But if those aren't working, then yeah, then there's a, and you're probably exhausted.

[1127] I mean, you've got seven -month -old twins.

[1128] Oh, my gosh.

[1129] I'm surprised you could have to put a sentence together.

[1130] It's exhausting.

[1131] So give yourself some grace in all of this.

[1132] But, yeah, for me, it's the why and the how that she needs to hear.

[1133] Lead with an apology for having done this wrong.

[1134] and then explain to her this really matters a lot and I need you to hear me and she'll hear you you'll be okay this is the ramsie shop well I think it's been almost 20 years ago I've read a book called thou shall prosper and I start talking about on the air what a wonderful book it was and the author called me up and he said who are you I love you my book is selling and he and I became great friends rabbi daniel lappin and I have been friends for it's got to be 20 years, isn't it?

[1135] Yeah, get down into that microphone.

[1136] Get down into it.

[1137] Yeah, sorry.

[1138] It's been probably 20 years, right?

[1139] I'm thinking almost.

[1140] It's got to be, let's see, that would be 2002.

[1141] No, it's not quite that long.

[1142] It's probably 15 years.

[1143] Something like that.

[1144] Anyway, I don't know.

[1145] Brand new book came out, oddly enough.

[1146] Rabbi is a Orthodox Jewish rabbi, and the book, Thou Shall Prosper is his main, or the book that made you in terms of, in terms of, with your help.

[1147] Well.

[1148] It's a fabulous book.

[1149] It's one of my top ten faves of all time.

[1150] And so I ended up writing the foreword when you reissued it later.

[1151] Yes.

[1152] But this book came out, the new book, The Holistic You, Integrating Your Family, Finances, Faith, and Friendship and Fitness, sadly came out October the 8th by an Orthodox Jewish rabbi after October the 7th.

[1153] Really bad timing, Rabbi.

[1154] Offly bad timing, you know, you can't rely on Hamas to get anything right.

[1155] Okay.

[1156] I'm with you on that.

[1157] I like it.

[1158] So good stuff.

[1159] So you taught us in Thou Shall Prosper so thoroughly to not be ashamed of earning as a result of serving.

[1160] I think one of my favorite quotes was if you do a good job for folks in business, they give you certificates of appreciation with president's faces on them.

[1161] Right.

[1162] And so you've written a lot of bestselling books.

[1163] books about money and business and other practical life lessons that are woven all through there from the Hebrew Bible, what we call the Old Testament and as Christians, and you call the Bible, and that's where you and I have had a lot of common ground, a lot of wonderful discussions, fireside, and over dinners with our wives and everything else, we've just become great friends.

[1164] And so what is it that the holistic you goes into that you haven't done in these other book.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] It's the 30 ,000 foot view.

[1167] It's zooming out a little bit and relating to the idea that our lives are actually a complex system.

[1168] It's not as if these are separate components.

[1169] In just the same way, nobody would say, you know, your heart is one thing and your liver is something else, your lungs are something else.

[1170] You know, you're going to see a heart especially.

[1171] They say, look, this is what you need.

[1172] Take this medicine.

[1173] It's great.

[1174] You know, it's going to wreck your kidney function, but it's going to be great for your heart.

[1175] You know, you get out of there as quickly as you can because I want a doctor who sees the whole mean, not just a little part of me. And our lives are very much like that as well.

[1176] We had a woman who became a coaching client of ours who came to us because she said she's done everything right.

[1177] She did really well at college.

[1178] She got into the business school of her choice.

[1179] she focused, she graduated top in business administration, she came out with a really great MBA and she says other people who didn't perform nearly at her level were getting much better job offers than she was and that alerted her to the fact that there's something real going wrong and what's going wrong is that while some of her colleagues were attending birthday parties or celebrations connecting with other people building up their own personal.

[1180] analysis.

[1181] In the final analysis, when you interview somebody for a job, you're not just looking at grades and GPAs from college.

[1182] There's a subtle, emotional, psychological connection that is the result of everything that you have done with your life, because everything you do contributes to making you who you are.

[1183] So here's a girl who's terrific, I mean, very, very accomplished, but only unidimensionally.

[1184] She was excellent academically.

[1185] I mean, she could do a bond yield analysis in her head.

[1186] I mean, she was really, really good.

[1187] But her relational IQ was just not.

[1188] But the rest of the, it just wasn't, she couldn't talk about anything else.

[1189] She didn't have any hobbies.

[1190] She didn't have any interest.

[1191] She'd really deliberately neglect all the other aspects of her life.

[1192] So that's why we condensed the complexity of a human life into the the five fundamentals of family, finance, faith, fitness, and friendships.

[1193] One of the things that Rachel, I do a lot of controversial things, as you know.

[1194] Oh, I'm shocked.

[1195] I preach financial heresy all the time to the financial Pharisees out there.

[1196] But Rachel is not as nearly as controversial.

[1197] She's more likable.

[1198] People love Rachel.

[1199] But the one thing that she gets the most hate on is when she suggests, dares to suggest, Couples combine their finances and not run them separately.

[1200] And she actually used a phrase pretty similar to what you've used here in the book that if you can share a bed, you can share a bank account.

[1201] And she's exactly right.

[1202] Yes, and we go further.

[1203] We say you have to.

[1204] We do too.

[1205] That's absolutely essential.

[1206] Yes, so walk through that because we talk about this a lot.

[1207] Why is it so essential?

[1208] Even just two segments ago, we had the exact call.

[1209] We get this call once or twice a show sometimes about a spouse.

[1210] Because not only are fewer and fewer people getting married now, but many who are getting married aren't acting like it.

[1211] Are acting and also unsure whether they're roommates or marriage.

[1212] Yeah, that's what I mean.

[1213] They aren't acting like they're married.

[1214] There's a proliferation of lawyers drawing up pre -nup contracts.

[1215] I mean, that's a fine way to go into a marriage.

[1216] And again, you know, if it's a second marriage or third marriage, there are lots of assets and children, you know, complexities exist.

[1217] But ordinarily, when a young couple marries, you would have thought it would be with a wholehearted bonding.

[1218] We're not talking roommates.

[1219] We're talking.

[1220] Okay, this is really, really important stuff.

[1221] And the reason that you have to share the bank account as well as the bad.

[1222] And frankly, leaving one is just as ridiculous as omitting the other.

[1223] But the reason there is because there's something very different about how.

[1224] men and women typically relate to money.

[1225] Not that a woman doesn't enjoy earning money, not that a woman can't be particularly good at her career and excel at it, but it doesn't do anything directly to her sexual feminine identity.

[1226] When a man makes money, it is a very intrinsic, masculine, and related thing to him.

[1227] And the evidence of that, of course, is the reverse.

[1228] Unfortunately, we've seen places, regions where steel has, as an industry, has collapsed.

[1229] And one of the things we know, unfortunately, is that when a male loses the capacity to earn money, loses a job, heaven forbid, there is almost inevitably a sexual dysfunction that accompanies that.

[1230] It's almost inevitable.

[1231] Never with a woman.

[1232] When a woman loses a job, it doesn't, it's painful, it's problematic, she's worried, she is embarrassed, but it doesn't hurt.

[1233] But the way money is identified with us is different.

[1234] And so learning to work as a team, though, is crucial in the unity, right, of the marriage to say, hey, we both are in this together and we are coming at it wholeheartedly into this marriage.

[1235] So every part of our marriage, to your point, from my health, the way I want to raise my kids, all of that has to be in line with my husband, right?

[1236] And together we see it.

[1237] No, clearly.

[1238] And I've got to say, you know, maybe many of the people who get upset when you speak about these things are people who've sort of almost lost contact with their essential feminine natures.

[1239] And it's easy to do.

[1240] Men can lose contact with their masculine natures and become incapable.

[1241] A lot of, you know, a lot of the people in the news on campuses today are right there.

[1242] Do you see the, because I do hear from specifically on the women, side of hearing this message if something happens I have to make sure that I protect my it's almost this fear elements there and then for the guy you know you know different reasons why but I do yeah I think that is it is so key okay you also talk about I want to get this in before break this lot work life balance aspect too and how key that is yeah so that actually is not what we talk about because we figure out anybody who can work a spreadsheet can draw up a work life balance.

[1243] That's not hot.

[1244] Happy anniversary.

[1245] How many years you've been married?

[1246] Not telling you, because if I tell you, then you're going to know how old the wife is.

[1247] But let's say it's over 44 years and below 46 years.

[1248] Okay.

[1249] There you go.

[1250] I can probably figure that one out.

[1251] I'm a math guy.

[1252] Rabbi Daniel Lapin, the new book is called The Holistic You, Integrating Your Family, Finances, Faith, Friendships, and Fitness.

[1253] anything this guy writes I recommend he's a good friend and an incredible thought leader be sure and check it out this is the ramsie show rachel cruise ramsay personality number one best selling author and my daughter is my co -host today the best way to make the most of your money is by doing it on purpose that's called a plan being intentional in the money world we call that a budget every dollar is our world -class budgeting app the best budgeting app in the world and it makes it simple to plan your spending track your expenses and hit your baby steps and move through and level up you can keep a pulse on your spending and share everything with your spouse make progress on your money goals with every dollar download every dollar for free in the app store or go to google play and do it or you can even go to every dollar dot com and find everything you need tyler's in pennsylvania hi tyler welcome to the ramsie show hey how are you guys doing better than we deserve what's up in your world uh not much but get the long story short on 28 uh full -time truck driver started a side business about eight months ago that works won out on the road uh the only debt i have is 200 000 on a mortgage and $8 ,500 left on the camper loan.

[1254] My mortgage is roughly $1 ,400 a month.

[1255] I'm paying $2 ,500 a month, and the camper is $2 .80 a month, but I'm trying to pay that off in the next six or seven months with like a $1 .50 monthly payment on it.

[1256] The question is, once I pay the camper off, did I use that $1 .50 and put it right on the mortgage or start reinvesting back in the 401K that I've postponed for the last couple of years.

[1257] Stop paying extra on your mortgage.

[1258] Throw all the money you can find anywhere in your budget at the camper and get it paid off quicker than you were planning to.

[1259] Once it's paid off, you need to have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses.

[1260] That's what we call Baby Step 3.

[1261] You're debt -free, then, everything but your house, and you have three to six months of expenses.

[1262] Then Baby Step 4 is what you said.

[1263] Start your 401K back over.

[1264] Start it again.

[1265] And 15 % of your income.

[1266] companies be going into your 401k, make it a Roth if you can, and put it in good mutual funds.

[1267] And then any money you find beyond the 15 % going into the 401k with no payments now, but a house payment, now we start throwing extra money at the mortgage.

[1268] But only after the camper is gone, you've got the 401k restarted and the emergency fund in place.

[1269] Only then do you do that.

[1270] Gillian is in Atlanta.

[1271] Hi, Jillian.

[1272] How are you?

[1273] Hi, I'm good.

[1274] Thank you.

[1275] How are you?

[1276] Better than I deserve.

[1277] What's up?

[1278] Thanks for taking my call.

[1279] I am calling because I make too much money to live paycheck to paycheck, and I need help getting back on track, and I don't know what I'm missing here.

[1280] How much money do you make?

[1281] I combined 148, my husband and I. Okay.

[1282] Good for you.

[1283] Have you guys written out a budget?

[1284] Do you know where your money is?

[1285] he's going every month?

[1286] Do you have you realized oh my gosh there's so many so much payments like you're seeing it happen and you're just trying to slow it down or you don't even you don't even know that?

[1287] I don't even know that I've been attempting a budget and then I just got every dollar but because I'm coming into it in the middle of the month it's kind of still a little confusing yeah so I don't know where everything's going we're not like living lavishly no you can disorganize your way out of 150 grand Yeah.

[1288] Yeah, how much debt do you guys have, Jillian?

[1289] $35 ,000.

[1290] Okay, what's it in?

[1291] $5 ,000 in student loans, and $30 ,000 is my husband's truck.

[1292] How much is that car payment a month?

[1293] $6 .75.

[1294] Okay.

[1295] What's your house payment?

[1296] House payment is $2 ,000.

[1297] Okay.

[1298] Nothing you're giving me here that is out of control.

[1299] I mean, we've got some goals.

[1300] We need to pay off the truck and the student loan.

[1301] But nothing here is screaming stupid.

[1302] So it sounds like mathematically that your biggest problem is you guys are just not telling your money what to do.

[1303] We always laugh and say a budget is telling people telling their money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

[1304] You've just been wondering where it went.

[1305] And now you woke up and you're disgusted with that, which is a really cool place for you.

[1306] That means you're getting ready to change your life.

[1307] yes and so the second reason why I'm calling today my husband is going to start getting monthly you're muffling you need to speak direct into your phone I can't hear you the second reason you call me is what my husband is about to start getting monthly bonuses oh good on top of the salary and so I want to make sure that we don't just mix that into everything that disappears every month I want to be intentional with it and you need to be intentional with all of it yeah yes yeah yeah do you guys do you guys have a regular salary or is it commission based besides just the bonuses regular salary regular okay well that's the easiest part of budgeting honestly for so many people the irregular income is where they get really tripped up so so yeah so we're in may right now in the middle of the month you're right so i would i would be looking and say okay in june here's our budget and you have your income and i'm glad you have every dollar minus all of your expenses including giving and there'll be some savings do you guys have any savings at all 5 ,000 and a CD.

[1308] Okay.

[1309] So I would take that down to, I would take that down to a thousand and go ahead and put a lot of this towards your student loan.

[1310] And that's pretty much knocked out at that point, which is great.

[1311] And then, yeah, you're going to be tracking, Julian, like every single thing that you spend money on.

[1312] And I would go back to, you know, April, February, March, like, go back some months and see on average, what are you spending on groceries?

[1313] On average, what do you guys spend it out to eat?

[1314] Like, get some averages and plug those into every dollar.

[1315] But remember, those numbers were numbers when you weren't budgeting.

[1316] So you're going to be able to say, oh, my gosh, we spent that much going out to eat.

[1317] Well, if we cut that completely out, maybe that'll take it down, you know, the student loan down to $500.

[1318] Because that'll be $500.

[1319] We're not spending out to eat.

[1320] We're going to put that towards the student loan.

[1321] Your grocery budget, again, this is when you're not budgeting.

[1322] So you're just going and kind of getting what you want to say, okay, what could we limit there?

[1323] And you're going to start to see all these things trickle in of, oh, my, gosh, this is where it's going.

[1324] And you're going to be able to shore it up.

[1325] And because you guys have this truck payment and this debts, I mean, I would go through that every dollar budget and start cutting columns, cutting these categories on the app that you don't need.

[1326] And to say, and lowering dollar amounts.

[1327] We're going to hit this truck.

[1328] We're going to hit this truck.

[1329] And the great thing about every dollar is it's going to show you at the top what's left.

[1330] And so you're going to find some margin, Julian.

[1331] You really will.

[1332] And you're going to start to see that number grow, go grow and you just think if we put that much towards the truck this is where and you start to actually see it happening but you got to see those hard numbers first and foremost so go back a few months and average out some of these categories and I think that's really going to help you see somewhat of a goal to shoot for I think as you get good at this and it's going to take you a little bit to get good at it you're going to put $3 ,000 a month on the truck and the truck's going to be paid off in about 10 months that's what I think okay so here's your here's your here's your rules, you and your husband sit down, turn the television off, put the kids to bed, get the every dollar app up on the screen, and start telling June what to do.

[1333] You guys get to choose to gather what it's going to do.

[1334] You lay it all down and then you stick to the plan that you laid out.

[1335] The first month, you're not going to be very good at this.

[1336] The reason you called us as you suck at this and you're learning, okay?

[1337] The second month, you're going to be a little bit better.

[1338] The third month, you're going to feel like a budget pro.

[1339] It's going to take three months before it all clicks.

[1340] Okay.

[1341] Give yourself a little grace.

[1342] It's tense to sit and talk to your spouse about this when you never have.

[1343] Expect some tension in the area.

[1344] Give yourself breathe, breathe, okay?

[1345] smile tell a joke and so um you know begin to lay it out and every dollar has an assignment before the month begins and it's not going to be perfect the first month and we're going to do it together and we're going to have a contract between the two of us that we're not going to violate this plan that we have both agreed to without coming back and changing it together you might have to change it a time or two.

[1346] Yeah, you probably will change it throughout the month.

[1347] So give yourself that leeway, but you guys agree on that to say, wow, this was more.

[1348] You can't just come in and go, honey, I changed it today.

[1349] No, that's not, that doesn't work that way.

[1350] Okay.

[1351] We're going to do it together.

[1352] It's very, very important.

[1353] When you do that, you're going to feel the stress and the anxiety and the relationship leave the air as well as this sense of out of control and chaos.

[1354] It's amazing how powerful this one simple tool is.

[1355] This is the Ramsey show.

[1356] Our scripture of the day, Romans 12, 2, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

[1357] Andy Warhol says, they always say time changes things, but actually you have to change them yourself.

[1358] Kelsey is in Indianapolis.

[1359] Hi, Kelsey.

[1360] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1361] Hi, Dave.

[1362] Thank you so much for taking my call.

[1363] I appreciate it.

[1364] Sure.

[1365] What's up in your world?

[1366] I'm going to a divorce right now in the past year since August.

[1367] I started my first full -time job, saving up for me and my little girl.

[1368] And I have currently saved since August a little over $15 ,000 in cash.

[1369] Good for you.

[1370] I have no debt, no credit cards.

[1371] It's funny, this old man said to do babysits, and guess what?

[1372] He was right.

[1373] So I don't have any legal obligations or anything as well when it comes to divorce.

[1374] My question is, with the cash that I have set, it's currently in a share certificate, which will mature in September.

[1375] And when it matures, it'll be around $20 ,000, if not a little more.

[1376] my question is i know you prefer people to save up for 20 % on a home mortgage but as of right now where i stand legally and with no two years of w2 i'm not able to find a co -signer on an apartment or qualified by myself for an apartment i'm currently living with my family and it's not the best emotional and verbal situation i've been here during the three years of this legal separation and divorce so my question is is okay if i put 10 or 15 percent down which would be the $20K and get a home and have a payment that's roughly $1 ,200 a month.

[1377] Kelsey, if you can't qualify for an apartment, you can't qualify for a home.

[1378] So your logic is broken.

[1379] But to answer your question, if you have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses plus a down payment of 5%, 10%, sure, go ahead and buy in that case.

[1380] Okay.

[1381] Okay.

[1382] That's all fine.

[1383] But you're, and yes, you do need to get out of there.

[1384] But there are plenty of places in Indianapolis that will rent to a person who has $20 ,000 in the bank that does not have two years of W -2s.

[1385] Lots of them.

[1386] You've been told a lie by someone because we regularly survey the apartment community.

[1387] George Campbell did one not long ago for his podcast where he called around a different apartment.

[1388] departments in different cities and said I have a zero credit score I'm brand new out of college I don't have a job track record but I have a job I can prove the job to you will you rent to me and they said sure some of them required a little larger deposit but every one of them except one said no FICO score is fine and not two years of W2s all of that is so someone's been telling you this and it's not true Okay, I've put in three applications for apartments and been denied every time.

[1389] Oh, there?

[1390] I need a co -signer.

[1391] Well, what happens to, Kelsey, so what we have found, though, is sometimes you have to call and actually ask for a management position, someone that has a bandwidth to be able to or have decision -making rights that the person in the front office who may just be going through the applications doesn't have.

[1392] So we have found that, but you have to find.

[1393] You don't just fill out applications blindly.

[1394] Go in and sit down and talk to them and say, here's the situation.

[1395] okay I went through a divorce I've been working I show you the W2 for what I'm doing I show you proof of job and and here's here's my certificate I've got $15 ,000 in the bank and they'll rent to you they'll rent to you but if you just turn in applications they'll just turn them down because they don't even look at them but if you're in a position to buy a home and you do have that down payment and that payment's no more than 25 % of your take -home pay you have your emergency fund and you have all of that set up I mean at that point I would I would go ahead and buy.

[1396] I mean, we always say to...

[1397] I'm not sure you do, though, because I don't think $20 ,000 is an emergency fund plus a down payment.

[1398] Do you, Kelsey?

[1399] No, it's not.

[1400] I do have three or six months expenses saved outside of the...

[1401] Oh, you do?

[1402] Okay.

[1403] Then $20 ,000 is fine.

[1404] Okay.

[1405] What are you making?

[1406] How much are you making?

[1407] How much are you making?

[1408] Monthly with the child support and my own together.

[1409] It's a little over $3 ,200 a month.

[1410] Okay.

[1411] All right.

[1412] I would buy.

[1413] Now, here's the thing.

[1414] We tell you never take out more than a 15 -year mortgage.

[1415] We tell you never do it where the payment's more than a fourth of your take -home pay.

[1416] We do say those things.

[1417] We say it, but we do not say the third one is 20 % down.

[1418] We say 20 % down is best because you avoid PMI.

[1419] But a first -time home buyer or someone in your kind of a situation where you're trying to re -enter the housing market for the first time or reenter it as if it's the first time.

[1420] Very few of those people put down 20%.

[1421] Okay, so I'm okay.

[1422] I'm not going to get spanking by Papa Dave.

[1423] I just told you.

[1424] You could do it.

[1425] That's funny.

[1426] That's funny.

[1427] Kelsey, that's exciting, though.

[1428] I mean, seriously, this feels like another great step in the right direction for you too.

[1429] But don't do it based on there's no apartments in Indianapolis that are rent to you because that part's not true.

[1430] Yeah.

[1431] That part's not true.

[1432] so because it literally i mean you think an apartment won't rent to you but you can get a mortgage i mean come on that doesn't even make sense so um yeah sit down with churchill mortgage and they'll help guide you through the process uh we've been endorsing them for gosh almost 30 years now and they'll help you figure out what you can afford and you know start to lay out and then you might you may decide to save a little bit more and go get you an apartment and get out of that's toxic family situation but i think you do need to get out of that you've gotten and far enough the other side of the divorce to recognize there's other things that are toxic that are bringing you harm and you need to separate yourself from that or at least get some distance from it anyway and yeah I think you do need to make that move Michaela's with us in Minneapolis hi Michaela welcome to the Ramsey show hello hi hi what's up so essentially I'm calling because I just graduated and my husband and I have kind of decided to sit down, we've, you know, had conversations about our finances in the past, but really just taking it seriously, and there's quite a bit of debt.

[1433] How much?

[1434] We're not really sure where to start.

[1435] Um, have a little over $6 ,000.

[1436] On what?

[1437] Mortgage.

[1438] How much of this is mortgage?

[1439] Um, 350 ,000.

[1440] You have $300 ,000 in non -mortgage debt?

[1441] Uh -huh.

[1442] I have my doctorate.

[1443] And what?

[1444] And my student loans were about chiropractic.

[1445] Are you working now, or you just graduated?

[1446] Not.

[1447] I just graduated about a month ago, and I'm currently not working.

[1448] We have a toddler, and I'm also, we're about to have our second baby, so I'm staying home for a little bit for that reason.

[1449] And you signed up for $200 ,000 to be a chiropractor.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] What does your husband make?

[1452] I kind of.

[1453] so he it kind of varies um his income is based on like he's sales yeah what's he make so uh i don't really know like yearly um like his last you know it we roughly estimate about 6 ,000 a month but it totally varies like some months it's as high as like 10 ,000 a month you probably make an 80 or 90 000 okay honey you're going to have to get to work you painted you painted yourself in a corner you don't have a lot of choices I mean, you have a baby, I understand, and you should do that.

[1454] But you're about to be a chiropractor because you've spent $200K and you've got to pay $200K by being a chiropractor.

[1455] You made that decision.

[1456] You don't have to, you can't unring this bell.

[1457] So you're about to be a chiropractor, and you're probably going to start at $50 ,000 to $70 ,000 a year.

[1458] And if you work your butt off, maybe you can get it up to $110.

[1459] And between the two of you, then you're going to have to get an attack mode and do and get after these debts.

[1460] Yeah.

[1461] Wow.

[1462] Let's do this.

[1463] Let me help you.

[1464] You got a baby on the way, and it's a scary time, and this is an overwhelming amount of money.

[1465] You may not be able to keep this house, and you may not be able to keep the cars you bought, too.

[1466] You guys have made a real royal mess, and it's going to come, there's going to be some pain involved before you turn this around.

[1467] Probably some chiropractic metaphors in this.

[1468] So, but hang on.

[1469] We'll have.

[1470] Kelly, have, who's in there?

[1471] Kelly's in there.

[1472] Pick up and get you, I'm just, I'm just, I'm just flabber, get you, financial peace university and help you two get started.

[1473] And we'll try to help you with this.

[1474] And you call us back if you need to help you to go.

[1475] That puts us our of the Ramsey show in the books.

[1476] We'll be back with you before you know it.

[1477] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[1478] Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here.

[1479] You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring.

[1480] You just need a budgeting app that's made.

[1481] with you in mind and that's every dollar the every dollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money start budgeting with every dollar for free right now just go to ramsysolutions .com slash every dollar and download the app today that's ramsysolutions .com slash every dollar