401 - Keep A Lid On It

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And with the spirit and energy of the coyote, we begin this podcast.

[2] Hello.

[3] And welcome.

[4] To my favorite murder.

[5] That's Georgia Hard Start.

[6] That's Karen Kilgariff.

[7] How's it going?

[8] You know, it kind of sucks that it's like up to you with the banter because it's like, I always pass it to you.

[9] So like...

[10] Yeah, that's just how the play was written at the beginning.

[11] Right.

[12] Where it's my line next.

[13] It doesn't have to be your line.

[14] You know what I mean?

[15] I could extend the sentence if I wanted to.

[16] I feel like I would hope that you know you can do that after year seven and three quarters.

[17] But also, I think that's part of my charm is when I know that that's the position I'm in, I will absolutely like just crab walk sideways and get out.

[18] I will bail on it every time.

[19] You'll no sell.

[20] You'll no sell it and just be like, I refuse.

[21] Have to.

[22] I'm John X. We're not allowed to.

[23] to be earnest or try it's the rules i get it i think that's fair that's fair enough i'm on the cuss but i say i'm more of a millennial which is right which is more like enthusiastic to be invited absolutely paps beer printed shirt and a paps beer in your hand of like hey what's the event we're going to do together and don't show up empty handed ever or you're like or you're never going to fight it again.

[24] So I have to bring, carry something.

[25] Now, is that manners or is that millennial?

[26] I don't know.

[27] That might be my mom.

[28] Yeah, that might be a little Janet because my parents were like that too.

[29] Okay.

[30] And they acted like it was, you might as well just shit on the floor if you walk and empty handed.

[31] Totally.

[32] Crazy.

[33] Which is, let me just tell you right now, everyone, if you're on your way to a party and you don't know what to get the host, stop and get five lottery tickets, five scratchers.

[34] Nice.

[35] Hand them over to the fucking host.

[36] Or how about if you're looking for choices, you could also grab two lighters.

[37] No one ever gets themselves lighters anymore because no one smokes.

[38] Right.

[39] Everyone needs ice at a party.

[40] Every time.

[41] Hey, do you need ice?

[42] It's like the best question you could ask a host.

[43] Also, don't be afraid to be basic and grab that bag of Tostito scoops.

[44] Absolutely.

[45] They are beloved.

[46] They've made it.

[47] They've just been around for so long.

[48] They work.

[49] And if you're showing up late to a party, don't be afraid to get a 20 people.

[50] McNugget.

[51] People will fucking lose their minds.

[52] It's happened before Joe DeRosa's old party someone came in with a fucking bag of nugs and everyone cheered.

[53] If you can be the fastest postmate ever and be at like a close McDonald's so that they're hot when you get there.

[54] Ooh.

[55] A hot McNugget.

[56] A hot McNugget.

[57] Because when you're drunk at a party and it's now 1230 and you're kind of like, I'm here whether or not I want to keep eating celery.

[58] and ranch dip, you know, is like past that point.

[59] Right.

[60] You've worked all the scenarios that you can in that area.

[61] All that's left is the cauliflower of the crudite.

[62] And like, you don't want to be farting at a party.

[63] No, you shouldn't.

[64] No one's eating it.

[65] Right.

[66] The cheese has been picked over.

[67] Sweaty cheese.

[68] And what now?

[69] Maybe nothing.

[70] Or maybe the person of your dreams walks through that door, walks through that side gate along the front house into the back area where your party is.

[71] with a 20 -piece McNugget.

[72] Maybe a 40, maybe a 60.

[73] Maybe you somehow got the person to give you one of, well, you get 320s, I guess, right?

[74] That's how math works, right?

[75] You get one of every fucking dipping sauce, boom.

[76] Hero.

[77] Oh, my God.

[78] Hero.

[79] As if you're the richest person in the world where it's like, no, no, no, I got sweet and sour and barbecue.

[80] So just hang in there.

[81] It's me. What is your nugget sauce?

[82] I think that if we're going to talk about McDonald's specifically.

[83] Yeah, we are.

[84] Okay.

[85] That would be then, because I do like their barbecue.

[86] Absolutely.

[87] Or ranch, I think.

[88] I've never done ranch.

[89] I'm a barbecue and hot mustard double dip.

[90] Oh, my God.

[91] Try it sometime.

[92] That's just insane.

[93] I know.

[94] It's the best fucking thing I've ever had.

[95] So you're taking your one and going do, do, do, then.

[96] Yeah.

[97] Yeah, but I'm polite.

[98] I do it in the.

[99] hot mustard first and then the barbecue because Vince doesn't like barbecue and I don't want to co -mingle in the hot mustard and bum him out.

[100] You know what I mean?

[101] For sure.

[102] I'm a considerate double dipper at least.

[103] I bet you are.

[104] Although did we already talk about this that I had no consciousness of double dipping until that Seinfeld episode came out?

[105] I think most people didn't.

[106] People were talking about it and laughing.

[107] It's so gross or whatever.

[108] And I was just like, I think I've been doing this this whole time, like flagrantly.

[109] And, and, yeah not even thinking about it i feel like the older i get the less i care about people caring that i double dip i feel like the older i get the less i care about seinfeld he just can't rule my life anymore the way he used to every single thing i had to do just like him oh can we say rip to matthew perry right now while we're here i mean so sad i was reading some articles about the quality of his life and how he couldn't go out in public he was beloved, but that was affecting the quality of his life, which is so that horrible irony of like, quote unquote fame.

[110] And he had it.

[111] Right.

[112] You know, he had it coming and going and had you ever met him or seen him?

[113] I talked to him on the phone one time because he was friends with my friend.

[114] And they were kind of like hanging out.

[115] And so then she put me on the phone and I was making jokes.

[116] And then I think I said some joke that was maybe rude.

[117] And then He was like, eh, okay, anyway.

[118] And then I was like, all right, fine.

[119] I remember you from just the 10 of us, which was that syndicated show where the basketball coach had so many kids.

[120] And he played like the dream boyfriend.

[121] But he was like probably 13 years old.

[122] And then I won him back over with that deep cut where I was like, we're the household that memorized every person on the television when they came through.

[123] By the way, this is being recorded like a week before you're listening to it.

[124] So it just happened for us.

[125] Right.

[126] We're coping.

[127] Can I tell you, I feel like you can tell what kind of like mental health space I'm in by what I'm reading.

[128] Okay.

[129] But the opposite of what you'd think.

[130] So like when I'm reading horrible, terrible, true crime stuff, it's because I'm in a really good place and I don't want to like overdo it with the happiness, you know?

[131] Yes.

[132] You got to keep a lid on.

[133] I don't annoy anyone.

[134] So I am currently reading two true crime stories about your favorite, one of your favorite, one of your favorite topics.

[135] topics.

[136] Jack the Ripper.

[137] Somehow, which has never been my interest.

[138] But what happened?

[139] I started reading The Five.

[140] Yes.

[141] Oh, that book is so goddamn good.

[142] By Haley Rubenhold, which is so incredible.

[143] It's about the canonical five known victims of Jack the Ripper.

[144] And it's only about their lives.

[145] That's it.

[146] It's nothing about the murders.

[147] There's no horrific details in it.

[148] It's about what these women's lives would be like based on historical records and the time and place, which is fucking fascinating.

[149] Yes.

[150] And how those newspapers back then assumed if women were not middle or upper class that they were then lower class, drunks and sex workers, which for some of them was not accurate.

[151] Yeah.

[152] And it was almost like, well, this is the victimology and this is, you know who was killed because it's the same person as last time.

[153] to be kind of the approach.

[154] And because Victorian England was so fucked that it's like the workhouses, I didn't know anything about workhouses, which is basically you check yourself into prison because you can't afford to eat or sleep anywhere.

[155] And then you have to work as if you were a criminal to get those basic necessities met.

[156] I mean, it's fucking wild.

[157] But much like student loans, it's a scam and you start working, but then you got charged for things.

[158] Exactly.

[159] So, I mean, the fact that humanity was at a place like that during a time where everybody should have gotten rich because it was the industrial revolution.

[160] Totally.

[161] The beginning of it at least.

[162] And instead, they figured out exactly how to keep it at the top and push everybody down so low.

[163] And make everyone who's low happy to be paying for the fucking upper echelon to get, you know, their apartments furnished with beautiful furniture by the pleasure of the crown.

[164] Yeah.

[165] And proud of where they're coming from, even though they're getting.

[166] none of the opportunities that the upper class are getting.

[167] Yeah.

[168] Just it's so crazy.

[169] Was that stuff in there?

[170] I don't remember because I read that book like five years ago.

[171] Yeah.

[172] So all that's in there.

[173] And then I wanted to know more details and like some more stuff about Jack the Ripper, who he was exactly.

[174] So you're going to love this.

[175] Then I ordered they all love Jack, which you love, right, by Bruce Robinson.

[176] I literally have recommended this book on this podcast four times.

[177] And it's just a direct reflection of how little, I read and how specific my interests are, but I think there was a time where at one point you were like, you can't just keep saying that book.

[178] No, what I said was you tried to convince, well, yes, I probably said that, but you tried to convince me to read it by saying something about Freemasons and I was like, well, I'm out.

[179] I don't care.

[180] I think it was like, I don't want to know about Freemasons.

[181] And I've started reading and I'm like, whoa, Freemasons, man. Yes, this is the fucking answer.

[182] Bruce Robinson, who is also the man who wrote the screenplay for With Nail and I, which is one of my favorite movies and many people's favorite movie, but his ability to put words on the page that compel you to continue reading, because it's a big old book.

[183] Obsess.

[184] It's huge.

[185] So good.

[186] I'm reading it and I feel like I'm working out my mind in a way that like neurosurgeons tell you to do when you're young, so that when you're older, your brain still works.

[187] You know what I mean?

[188] Like it's a hard book to read, but it's so good and fascinating.

[189] It's good reading.

[190] It's like brain food reading.

[191] Oh, that's exciting.

[192] Yeah, put it on your nightstand.

[193] If you want people to think you're smart, put that one on your nightstand.

[194] Fuck, Infinite Chest.

[195] They all love Jack.

[196] This is the way to go, I feel like.

[197] And they all love Jack is so like, I think it's the ultimate frustrating cold case, right?

[198] Where it's like the theories have created more problems.

[199] And like the graphic novel from hell talks about that where it's like after years of theory and incorrect theorizing and people coming out and saying this is the final answer and it's actually not.

[200] It's just so muddled now because of that.

[201] Right.

[202] I do love the idea that it was the queen's doctor because that's the best story of like, it's the person you least expect.

[203] Right.

[204] And the reason that they couldn't solve it isn't because it's unsolvable or they were stupid.

[205] It's because they couldn't because it was the queen's doctor.

[206] Yeah.

[207] You can't blame nobility for something or a Freemason.

[208] It's just not what they do.

[209] Yes.

[210] There's people in this world that are so protected that they can do.

[211] truly whatever they want totally oh it does feel like it's a bit of a bummer if you think too hard about how it relates to us here today in the u .s right just pretend it's only in victoria in england here's the thing i'll tell you this because we can't really talk about other things that we've been watching because the sag strike is still going on but you know what's not going on is the auto worker strike their strike ended and they won their contracts and they won big amazing and like the union victories that are happening now are happening swiftly and that's a thing that should have happened way back then and people are starting to smarten up about what they should actually get and what they deserve.

[212] But they're the reason that the economy is fucking moving and running and working.

[213] Yeah.

[214] Not the fucking CEO.

[215] What am I saying?

[216] It's true.

[217] No, it's true.

[218] Hong Kong.

[219] Do you have allergies or is it this weird weather?

[220] because everything's turning into spooky Halloween season.

[221] It's the weird weather allergies, is what I have.

[222] The Los Angeles, what is this?

[223] Oh, it's fall, but it's hot weather.

[224] Hot wind, Halloween.

[225] Throw a pumpkin at a garage door because it's hot wind Halloween, baby.

[226] Well, for us, Halloween's tomorrow.

[227] For everyone else, it already happened.

[228] So who knows what's going to happen?

[229] But I think you and Vince must have the same mindset.

[230] And your guys are from the same era in that he thinks someone's going to come grab the pumpkins that we put out and smash them.

[231] And I'm like, or steal our Halloween decorations?

[232] And I'm like, I don't think that happens anymore.

[233] I don't think there are teenagers roaming the streets anymore, Karen and Vince, like stealing shit and like smashing pumpkins.

[234] I don't know.

[235] Count them up day of and then let me know day after exactly how many you have.

[236] You'll report back.

[237] But I mean, I guess that's so funny.

[238] But also it's like, because when we were teenagers, that was like a thing you could do.

[239] You couldn't trick or treat, and nobody was old enough to have a party, but people had driver's license, so you can, driver's licenses, so you could drive around in.

[240] Devil's night, too, is a thing.

[241] That's right.

[242] Oh, my God.

[243] Do you have anything?

[244] So many things I'm watching, I want to talk about, but we can't.

[245] No, I don't really have anything.

[246] They're doing a bunch of work on my street.

[247] So I meant to go to Sephora all weekend and just couldn't figure out when to move my car to get out.

[248] So I just kind of like, I had one of those.

[249] in the house weekends that actually was genuinely relaxing, not stressful.

[250] And that was a nice one.

[251] All his status quo, if not better than average.

[252] Oh, I love it.

[253] Congratulations.

[254] Thanks so much.

[255] It's a congratulations to you too, but only a little bit.

[256] Thank you.

[257] You know what I, poor Vince, every time we have like a relaxing weekend without any plans, I always start to feel guilty.

[258] And I'm like, we should go see my nephews, which is like the most stressful fucking thing to do is to see an eight -year -old and a four -year -old.

[259] year old, you know.

[260] It's like not a chill, happy couch football reading thing.

[261] It's, that's your equivalent of reading true crime while you're happy.

[262] It's kind of like, are we relaxed?

[263] Then let's go work on that.

[264] Yeah.

[265] Let's go chip away.

[266] Exactly.

[267] We should do exactly right corner.

[268] But really quickly, I want to say that we didn't talk about the newest MFM animated by Nick Terry, which I think is.

[269] Oh, did it come out?

[270] Yeah.

[271] And I think it's maybe my favorite of when I covered Billy Carlton and we started talking about all the musicals she was in.

[272] Oh, right.

[273] And then you and I just went into a whole musical ensemble.

[274] And that's what Nick Terry animated.

[275] It's epic.

[276] Go to the exactly right media YouTube to watch it.

[277] It's so fucking funny.

[278] It's my, I think it's my favorite.

[279] I mean, it's hard to choose.

[280] It's so funny because I remember once you and I, when we did my favorite weekend, which was now fucking four years ago or three years ago.

[281] Or Santa Barbara Week.

[282] Yeah.

[283] Horrifying.

[284] But I remember at one point, we were trying to show somebody, Nick had just started making those for us.

[285] Right.

[286] We were in the green room.

[287] Adrian and Lauren were in the green room with us and you and Vince and maybe somebody else.

[288] And so we were trying to show them that.

[289] And so we were watching it on somebody's phone and we're all watching it and laughing.

[290] And then I remember like watching it and laughing and then catching myself in the mirror and being like, I'm now the person that makes somebody watch a video of me. And then And I stand there and laugh along with it.

[291] Like, this is, now we're through the looking glass.

[292] Watch how funny I am.

[293] Look at me on my weekend.

[294] No, no, but also look at this thing of me. We're just like, bye, see you later.

[295] I want to say that Marty, my dad has got it in his craw, stuck in his craw, that we should somehow submit them to the short film festival in Palm Springs that I think he's gone to a couple times.

[296] He was a big fan of.

[297] And so he wants us to.

[298] He wants some tickets.

[299] I don't know.

[300] I'll talk to.

[301] Nick Terry about it, but Nick Terry has another job and he's busy.

[302] And I don't think he.

[303] And also, I don't think it counts as a short film.

[304] I don't, he wants us to submit.

[305] I don't know how to tell him that it's not going to happen.

[306] Yeah.

[307] You know what I mean?

[308] Because it's so sweet and he's so earnest about it.

[309] Yeah.

[310] It's his way of saying, like, I support what you're doing.

[311] I think it's good enough that it could actually fit into my world where real things are happening, which is a very big dad compliment.

[312] It is a big dad compliment.

[313] You're right.

[314] You know, maybe a Spike and Mike's festival, of sick and twisted animation comes back, maybe we would make it to that.

[315] Oh, here's the one thing I did want to say.

[316] Similar before we get into the exactly right corner is so the last, when I talked last week about the opportunist and their season seven that I was listening to that was about that screwed up kind of like, we'll take your troubled child into the desert and teach them.

[317] Yeah.

[318] I cited the name outward bound, but then I corrected.

[319] myself and said, I shouldn't have said that name that has nothing to do with it or whatever.

[320] I got a tweet from outward bound.

[321] No, you didn't.

[322] And it says, because I think I said I shouldn't have said outward bound, they're a legit one.

[323] And then they wrote Karen Kilgariff, we are a legit one.

[324] Participants on OB must be willing and motivated to go on course with us.

[325] We teach social emotional skills through adventure.

[326] We know you're supposed to stay out of the woods, but we'd love to have you join us sometime.

[327] And then, so I was like at first, I thought they were mad.

[328] By the time I got to the end, I was like, oh, no, I don't, you're not going to make me go on outward bound.

[329] That was literally a fear I had as like a 13 year old of like, if my parents got so sick of my mouth that they'd be like, you know what, you're going to go on a rope's course in Yosemite for the weekend.

[330] Bye.

[331] Well, outward bounds, we stand corrected.

[332] Yeah, so outward bound, thanks for, thanks for understanding.

[333] But there were so many movements, classes, ways to take your money in the 70s and 80s that were founded by people with zero certification, zero training, and a bunch of big ideas that were absolutely incorrect.

[334] Really quick.

[335] Just really quick.

[336] And this is in the clear.

[337] Did you see any clips or did you watch Nate Bargazzi host Saturday Night Live?

[338] I watched the whole thing.

[339] How charming and wonderful was he?

[340] I'm so excited.

[341] I mean, he is a beloved stand -up comic.

[342] Everyone I know that knows him, adores him as a person.

[343] Every comic that I know reveres him as a comic and a writer.

[344] Which is hard to do because they want to hate you, right?

[345] Like, hating you is the default when you're a really good comic.

[346] Hating you is kind of just the average, yeah, because that's just how you kind of get up and through and whatever as a comic.

[347] But he's so good.

[348] And then to watch him be able to do that and then have people going, I had no, I mean, this is on TikTok.

[349] I had no idea who this guy was, and this was the funniest episode I've seen in a while.

[350] Yeah, it was great.

[351] So excited for him.

[352] It was very surprising.

[353] I mean, that he was on it, and then he fucking killed it, you know.

[354] Yeah, it's great.

[355] Love it.

[356] Oh, we have to, oh, yeah, exactly right, corner.

[357] So this week on Exactly Right, our comedy shows all have amazing guests.

[358] Jamila Jamil is on with the Banana Boys this week.

[359] Amber Ruffin is the guest on adulting with Michelle Bouto and Jordan Carlos, who are also just on Good Morning America, you know, if anybody caught him.

[360] But they just did some sweet -ass good morning America paneling and were delightful.

[361] And then, on I said no gifts, Zainab Johnson joins Bridger.

[362] And I know Zanab, she's a hilarious comic.

[363] And she has a new special called Hejabs Off about her family.

[364] And she is a really amazing comic.

[365] I worked on a pilot with her a while ago where she had to be a sports reporter.

[366] And she's just super funny and cool.

[367] And I know.

[368] know a lot of people aren't getting the normal press that they usually get because everything's a little bit screwed up because of the strike.

[369] So just wanted to say, if you're looking for a comedy special to watch Zanab Johnson's new special, check it out because she's great.

[370] And then on Wicked words, Kate Winkler Dawson talks to true crime author Alex Marr about her book 70 times seven, which is about one of America's youngest death row inmates.

[371] So make sure to check that out.

[372] And then Karen, Lisa, discussed tortured from SVU's fourth season on That's Messed Up.

[373] And Karen Lees are still on tour.

[374] So go to That's Mess Up Live .com and find upcoming dates and go see them in real life and support them.

[375] They're great podcasters, but they're even better stand -up comics.

[376] So their live show is going to be great.

[377] Their live show's amazing.

[378] And also it's like our old live shows where if you go and even if you go alone, you're going to meet friends there.

[379] Like everyone who's in that audience at a live, that's much.

[380] messed up show is your new best friend.

[381] So make sure you go.

[382] If you listen to our show and you like Law & Order SVU and you haven't listened to That's messed up, which would be strange.

[383] But just in case, if you're just hearing about this now, find one of their shows and then go find your friends at that show.

[384] Yeah.

[385] And thank you so much for your patience as we roll out a new website for my favorite murder.

[386] The March Store has tons of new adorable designs.

[387] And if you're a member of the fan cult, you should now be able to access all of the exclusive audio and video content.

[388] Everything is like new and improved and super shiny.

[389] So go check out my favorite murder .com.

[390] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[391] Absolutely.

[392] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash?

[393] Exactly.

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[409] Goodbye.

[410] All right.

[411] Should we get to the actual thing we do on this podcast?

[412] Sure.

[413] Karen.

[414] I mean, why not?

[415] I'm very excited.

[416] I've been waiting.

[417] to tell this one for a while.

[418] Today I'm going to tell you about a pioneering investigative reporter with no formal training who overcame incredible odds to report and break one of the most important stories on the infiltration of a notorious, what they called back then, insane asylum in the 1880s of New York City, this is the story of Nellie Bly.

[419] This is amazing.

[420] I'm so excited.

[421] I thought you were going to say, Harold Romero.

[422] Oh, my God.

[423] one though you mean the one yeah the one oh yeah one of the most so basically this is the turn of the century version of that same exact story yeah and which is if you haven't seen that haroldo did basically the same thing about willowbrook the patients were being treated so terribly the video is a nightmare like please be careful i think there are horror movie directors that watch that original video and then based some of their ideas off of that i mean a legend of Cropsy came from that, right?

[424] Yeah.

[425] Well, that's where it took place.

[426] But Nellie Bly, that is incredible.

[427] Great idea.

[428] I can't wait to hear this.

[429] So the main sources used for this story today that Marin used are the book 10 Days in a Madhouse, which is a collection of articles that Nellie Bly wrote and that first ran in the New York World newspaper in 1887.

[430] Also a 1997 episode of PBS's American Experience called Around the World in 72 days.

[431] The Book Damnation Island, Poor, Sick, Mad, and Criminal in 19th Century, New York by writer Stacey Horn, and the rest of the sources are in our show notes.

[432] We're right in the Jack the Ripper territory right now.

[433] Yes, we are.

[434] That is where this whole thing takes place, which I always notice when stories are turn of the century or Victorian or whatever.

[435] If anything is near 1888, I'm like, Jack the Ripper is about to happen or Jack the Ripper started.

[436] Now I know.

[437] I didn't fucking know that shit.

[438] I mean, now you're in it with me. Maybe you were right.

[439] Maybe these seven and a half years when you've been telling me to fucking read, they all love Jack and talking about Jack the Ripper.

[440] Maybe you were.

[441] But wait, didn't I do the exact same thing to you where you recommended something twice?

[442] And then I was like, okay, you have to read this book.

[443] And it was like five years after.

[444] And I want to double down for you because I just finished the book.

[445] I told you about last week, Bright Young Women by Jessica Knoll.

[446] It's basically historical fiction about some of Ted Bundy's victims.

[447] I finished it.

[448] I cried.

[449] It is incredible.

[450] I'm doubling down on it.

[451] You need to listen to it.

[452] Okay, I will.

[453] But sorry, yes, I'm going to stop interrupting you.

[454] I'll let you.

[455] No, no. If you stop interrupting me, I'll be all alone.

[456] This podcast won't exist.

[457] Yeah, for real.

[458] So, in May of 1864, Elizabeth Jane Cochran is born in the suburb of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, called Cochran's Mill, which was founded by her dad and name.

[459] named for his business, the town mill.

[460] He also served as a county judge, so growing up, Elizabeth lives a charmed life in the upper class with all the luxuries that come with wealth and prominence.

[461] And from a young age, it's clear that she's a true individual with a big personality.

[462] She loves wearing fancy outfits and bright colors, which at the time, most children wore brown and black, and her favorite color was pink, so her friends and family nicknamed her pinky.

[463] that's how weird it was for children to wear color because they were so depressed from their factory jobs that they were just like forget it's funny that nowadays I'm always like I can't find black shirts to get my nephews ever but back then it was like no that's required yeah yeah when Elizabeth is just six years old her father dies unexpectedly and worse than that without an updated will so the majority of his large estate goes to his ex -wife and his many children from his previous marriage.

[464] So suddenly, Elizabeth's mother, Mary Jane, is a widow who's struggling to keep food on the table.

[465] And soon the family loses everything, including the large house that they lived in.

[466] So eventually Mary Jane remarries, but her new husband is a violent and abusive alcoholic.

[467] How many stories start like this?

[468] Truly.

[469] Then and now.

[470] She eventually takes steps to end this marriage, which in the mid to late 1800s is a highly, stigmatized, an extremely difficult process for women to undertake.

[471] When Elizabeth is 14 years old, she has to testify at her mom's divorce trial.

[472] So all of that leaves a huge impression on Elizabeth.

[473] Obviously, she becomes determined to be self -reliant so that she never has to depend on anyone else, especially a man, ever again.

[474] Of course, it's the Victorian era, and there are strict social rules involving the sexes.

[475] So women are forced to live private lives in their home.

[476] They're not supposed to have ambition for anything beyond getting married and raising children.

[477] Elizabeth can't worry about that, though, because her struggling family needs her financial help.

[478] And she wants to work and she wants to pitch in.

[479] But the problem is she can't find a job that pays well.

[480] Unlike her brothers, who land decent paying jobs despite having no formal education, Elizabeth is mostly offered low -paying factory jobs.

[481] And at 15 years old, she decides that she'll go to school to become a teacher.

[482] But after one semester, she runs out of money and she has to drop out of school.

[483] So she has to go back to Pittsburgh and help her mother run a boarding house.

[484] By 1884, Elizabeth is 20 years old.

[485] She is unhappy and unfulfilled.

[486] which by the way we've said this a million times on this podcast but you're supposed to be unhappy and unfulfilled when you're 20 and when you're 25 and when you're 30 and it continues on until you go through a bunch of different versions of your life until it starts working anybody that's acting like they stuck the landing on the first try is fucking lying don't fall for it yeah that's what life is is constantly striving when you stop having that driving feeling.

[487] Like, what do you do?

[488] What do you do?

[489] It's not bad luck.

[490] You're supposed to always want more and better for yourself.

[491] Right.

[492] Because you deserve it.

[493] Yep.

[494] And in between, you can have a twigs.

[495] Okay.

[496] One day, I don't know why I said that.

[497] One day.

[498] I think it's because I here's what's hilarious.

[499] I have Halloween candy in this cookie jar that's on my counter.

[500] I bought it like when my family came to visit a month ago.

[501] So I keep thinking Halloween's because the candy's almost gone and usually I buy it closer to Halloween and then eat it for a month after.

[502] So I had a little tiny twicks earlier.

[503] I was so excited there was still one in there.

[504] And that's your joy of the week.

[505] That really is.

[506] For a Monday is a tiny twix.

[507] That's how I get through the day.

[508] I guess your 50s are also quite difficult.

[509] But look, who gives a shit?

[510] One day Elizabeth picks up a copy of the Pittsburgh Dispatch newspaper, her local newspaper, which she read every day, and she sees a column entitled, quote, what girls are good for?

[511] And in it, the columnist argues that women should be kept out of the workforce confined to the house where they should practice the domestic arts and raise children.

[512] Oh, go fuck yourself.

[513] Right?

[514] By the time she's done reading, Elizabeth's blood is boiling.

[515] It's not just that the writer is a chauvinist and basically just saying, like, why would you even need to be stating this?

[516] Right.

[517] But he's completely overlooked the women who have no choice, the ones in her exact situation, who have to work outside the home to make ends meet.

[518] So Elizabeth pulls out a pen and paper and writes a scathing rebuttal, and she signs it, little orphan girl, and mails it to the dispatch office.

[519] Her grammar and spelling aren't perfect.

[520] Of course, she has no formal education, but her voice is clear, it's passionate, and it is captivating.

[521] The dispatcher's editor, George Madden, reads the rebuttal letter and is so blown away that he commits himself to finding this little orphan girl.

[522] You know what she did?

[523] I think what they used to call clapped back.

[524] That's right.

[525] The old clapback.

[526] Ye old clapback.

[527] So George Madden places an ad in the next day's newspaper asking the little orphan girl writer to come forward.

[528] Elizabeth sees the ad.

[529] It's easy to assume she hauled her ass down to the dispatches office to say, yes, it's me. Hey, George Madden asks her if she'd be interested in writing a piece on, quote, the women's sphere for the newspaper and she happily accepts.

[530] It's all very fateful.

[531] It's so cool.

[532] Very cool.

[533] And what did she do there?

[534] She took pen to paper and she said what she actually felt and meant and was authentic and passionate.

[535] And then she got rewarded for it.

[536] She was the original blogger, I feel like.

[537] Women's blogger.

[538] Good for her.

[539] Good for her and for all bloggers.

[540] Elizabeth's first article pulls no punches.

[541] Her headline reads, quote, The Girl Puzzle, and it addresses the discrimination and sense of hopelessness that poor women regularly experience.

[542] She calls out the wealthy residents of Pittsburgh.

[543] Fucking listen to this shit.

[544] Saying, quote, Women in poverty read of what your last pug dog cost and think of what that vast sum would have done for them.

[545] Paid father's doctor bill, bought mother a new dress, shoes for the little ones.

[546] And imagine how nice it would be.

[547] Could baby have the beef tea that is made for your favorite pub or the care and kindness that is bestowed upon it?

[548] Oh my God.

[549] She's fucking telling it like it is.

[550] She is and she also has this huge advantage of having grown up among rich people so she knows what she's talking about.

[551] And she's also like, adopt, don't shop.

[552] Like, there's so many things in this story.

[553] I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

[554] I had to say it.

[555] If she could have thrown in a spade new to your pets, what an article that could have been.

[556] Okay, so in the 19th century, most female journalists are writing under pen names.

[557] Elizabeth is no exception.

[558] She publishes the girl puzzle as the little orphan girl and her column makes a big splash.

[559] George Madden decides to keep giving Elizabeth assignments at the rate of $5.

[560] a week, which is worth around $160 a week now.

[561] That's a lot, though.

[562] Like, I feel like for back then, right, for a woman to earn.

[563] Yeah, because that's when, like, a cup of coffee was three cents and shit.

[564] Yeah.

[565] And also, it was definitely more than she would make as a factory worker, a little more than she would make as a factory worker.

[566] But she's also doing what she's supposed to be doing.

[567] Totally.

[568] So she starts churning out more and more articles that become increasingly popular.

[569] So people like her writing.

[570] Before long, a group of men at the newspaper decide she needs a catchier pen name and they pick Nellie Bly, which is a reference to a popular song of the time and it sticks.

[571] By the way, I just have to say, George is barking because there's coyotes outside and he can't be calmed down.

[572] So there's background noise for this.

[573] As she gets more famous, Elizabeth starts going by Nellie Bly, and so that's what we'll refer to her as for the rest of this story.

[574] So, of course, she takes her new job very seriously, even though she's limited to covering items for the women's page, which is a dedicated section of the newspaper that covers things like fashion and the arts and homemaking.

[575] But Nellie makes no secret of the fact that she is not satisfied with this kind of reporting.

[576] She wants to do the same hard -hitting pieces that her male co -workers are covering.

[577] So she starts pitching stories that deal with the politics of being a 19th century woman.

[578] Pieces about divorce laws that harm women.

[579] and sexism in the workforce, two things that she has had firsthand experience with.

[580] Wow.

[581] And it doesn't take long before Nellie Bly is a hit.

[582] She develops a real following and she manages to parlay her name recognition into a gig as the dispatches foreign correspondent to Mexico.

[583] Wow.

[584] Yeah, she spends several months in Mexico and then she even draws the ire of the Mexican government after reporting on official corruption.

[585] Oh dear.

[586] But when she comes back to Pittsburgh, her editors are for the, in most part, still assigning her fluff pieces for the woman's page.

[587] By 1887, Nellie's a self -made 23 -year -old, and she is getting very sick of her constant battle to be taken seriously at the dispatch.

[588] So she does what ballers do.

[589] She sets her sights on a much bigger playing field, New York City.

[590] And she does it so geniusly.

[591] She pitches a story to her editor that she wants to do on how tough it is to get a job as a female reporter in New York City.

[592] and he says, yeah, go do that story.

[593] So basically, she's going to get paid to go interview and figure out how she can get a job in New York.

[594] So Nellie sets up interviews with editors all over New York City, and she asks them all, what chance does a woman have in journalism?

[595] And these editors, who are, of course, all men, tell Nellie that women have no chance at all.

[596] Nellie is not discouraged by this.

[597] She writes her piece for the dispatch, and then she cuts ties with them soon after.

[598] So she does the story, she puts it in, and she's like, bye.

[599] Spicy.

[600] She moves her entire life to New York City before she's even gotten a job.

[601] And then one afternoon, she goes to the downtown office of legendary publisher Joseph Pulitzer's newspaper, The New York World, and somehow talks her way into a meeting with its managing editor, a man named John Cockrell.

[602] So Nellie asks him for work, and surprisingly, he offers her an assignment.

[603] But as writer Maureen Corrigan puts it, quote, It was something of a dare.

[604] If you really want to be a reporter, let's see what you've got.

[605] So John Cockrell wants Nellie to write an expose on the infamous New York City Asylum on Blackwell's Island.

[606] Holy shit.

[607] So today, New Yorkers know Blackwell's Island as Roosevelt Island, which is a skinny two -mile -long island that sits in the East River between Manhattan and Queens.

[608] It has apartment buildings, parks, an iconic tramway, and scenic views of the city.

[609] But in the late 1880s, Blackwell's Island is not a place where people go willingly.

[610] Instead, it hosts some notorious facilities operated by the city.

[611] There's a prison, a house for the poor, and a so -called workhouse where people convicted of minor crimes are sent as punishment.

[612] There's also a public mental hospital with separate women's and men's facilities.

[613] At the time, this was named the New York City Lunatic Asylum.

[614] in this story, we'll just call it the asylum or Blackwell's Island, because, you know, it was a different time.

[615] And as it turns out, the people in this asylum did not always have mental illness issues, which is the scariest part of the story.

[616] Absolutely.

[617] The asylum on Blackwell's Island opened in 1839, about 50 years before Nellie's arrival in New York.

[618] And it was meant to provide compassionate care for people who couldn't care for themselves, regardless of whether they had the money.

[619] to pay for it.

[620] It was supposed to be guided by Victorian ideals around moral character, charity, and public health.

[621] But unfortunately, the city blows through its budget and the facility winds up actually being built way smaller than it was originally planned to be.

[622] But that is not taken into account when they open the doors and start admitting people.

[623] It becomes immediately overcrowded.

[624] It gets worse and worse as the years pass.

[625] And orders from families.

[626] families, physicians, police, judges, as well as voluntary admissions, send more and more people to the island.

[627] Soon, hundreds of patients at this asylum are regularly sleeping on the floor because there aren't enough beds.

[628] And at this period in time, mental health is not well understood.

[629] So people are actually sent there for a huge range of psychiatric symptoms, some without any discernible mental illness whatsoever.

[630] And this includes new U .S. immigrants ordered to Blackwell's Island by city officials who just don't know where else to house them.

[631] inside the asylum spirals into chaos.

[632] Now, none of this is new information.

[633] The asylum at Blackwell's Island has long been on the radar of writers and journalists.

[634] And actually, in the 1840s, Charles Dickens visited there while he was on a tour of the United States and reportedly, he, quote, left in a hurry because of the facility's hopeless atmosphere.

[635] So the asylum also hosted many journalists from respected outlets like the New York Times and Harper's, who were given open access to patients, but instead of using the story to advocate for change, journalists would just pen salacious stories that mocked the people in the throes of severe mental illness and distress.

[636] So it was not a great time, not caring, sensitive time, just kind of, you know, it was what it was.

[637] But Nellie's not interested in entertaining the asylum as an outside observer, like Charles Dickens did.

[638] She wants to capture an authentic depiction of what life is like inside.

[639] And the only way to get that story will be for Nellie to arrive on Blackwell's Island as a patient, not a journalist.

[640] I mean, that idea alone, it seems like such a, what's the word I'm looking for?

[641] Total nightmare.

[642] Total nightmare.

[643] Revolutionary.

[644] Oh yeah.

[645] Like what a great idea.

[646] It's terrifying.

[647] But that's like a real journalist, a real investigative journalist.

[648] Like that's what your brain has to be like is someone who, wants to get in there and see what's actually happening, not just, like, write a fluff piece about it.

[649] That's so fucking awesome.

[650] It's so inspiring.

[651] And also, I don't think, and I mean, this is just my opinion, but I don't think she would have been at that point where she would have been up for this.

[652] I mean, we know she was pinky and she was kind of the OG, right, from birth.

[653] But at the same time, years and years of being told to write about housecoats and ironing and trying to compete and not being allowed to compete gets her to the point where she's like, hell yes, I'm going to do this.

[654] Just back to that thing we were talking about before, where it's like kind of being like turned down, being held down, whatever, it's not always a bad thing if it leads to something big and brave and great.

[655] Yeah.

[656] So Nellie assumes a new identity.

[657] She checks herself into a woman's boarding house under the name Nellie Brown, knowing that immigrants are often the targets of discrimination and suspicion.

[658] She tells the landlady she's recently moved here from Cuba.

[659] Throughout the evening, Nelly starts acting confused and paranoid around the other lodgers.

[660] She isn't doing anything aggressive, but her behavior alone frightens everybody, and soon the landlady calls the police.

[661] So she's taken down to a downtown courthouse where the judge takes one look at the white, pretty young woman in his courtroom, takes pity on her, and says, quote, I would stake everything on her being a good girl.

[662] I am positive she is somebody's darling.

[663] Poor girl.

[664] I will be good to her, for she looks like my sister who is dead.

[665] Oh.

[666] End quote.

[667] So then reporters are called to the courthouse to write stories on this mysterious woman from Cuba who's basically being like thrown to the mercy of the court.

[668] And the Times prints a headline that says, quote, the mysterious waif with the wild haunted look in her eyes.

[669] Oh my God.

[670] And meanwhile, this son runs a story that the headline is, quote, who is this insane girl?

[671] So now, of course, Nellie's freaking out that someone like will recognize her and blow her cover or that another journalist is going to sniff out her real identity and and basically bust her.

[672] So fortunately for Nellie's plan, that doesn't happen.

[673] And when no one comes forward to claim her, she's taken to Bellevue Hospital.

[674] And they're a team of doctors determined that she suffers from, quote, dementia with delusions of persecution.

[675] So she's just pretending.

[676] There was actually a part after she accepted this assignment.

[677] She went home and practiced, like, wildly staring.

[678] But the whole thing is an act.

[679] So it's kind of disturbing that it's that easy for her to be diagnosed that way.

[680] It's decided that there's only one place fit for an anonymous immigrant woman who's experiencing a mental health crisis, Blackwell's Island.

[681] Nellie's taken to the asylum by boat when she steps on land, she's greeted by two nurses spitting tobacco on the ground.

[682] Nellie asks them where she is, and someone responds, quote, Blackwell's Island, an insane place where you'll never get out of.

[683] Horrifying.

[684] So now Nellie drops her act completely.

[685] She starts talking and acting as herself, but the asylum staff either don't notice or they don't care.

[686] By dinner time, Nellie realizes these patients' most basic needs are not being met.

[687] The women are drastically underfed and what little food they are served is basically inedible.

[688] So she does a whole write -up on this that the food isn't salted and they can tell some of it is clearly spoiled.

[689] So they try to make it taste decent by dousing it with things like mustard and vinegar, which usually makes it taste worse.

[690] But the problem is if they don't eat their food, they're threatened with punishment.

[691] And if they do eat it and get sick, then the staff makes fun of them and basically just ignores them.

[692] So as Nellie will eventually write, quote, in our short walks, we pass the kitchen where food was prepared for the nurses and doctors.

[693] There we got glimpses of melons and grapes and all kinds of fruits, beautiful white bread and nice meats, and the hungry feeling would be increased tenfold.

[694] Oh my God.

[695] So there's definitely an argument for corruption here where the city is giving this hospital money and the money is not going to take care of the people that need to be at the hospital, they're just keeping it all up at the top.

[696] Yeah.

[697] And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

[698] Nellie will later write about being forced to take freezing cold baths once a week, where the women are stripped naked, plunged into a large tin tub filled with bathwater that's already been used by a bunch of patients.

[699] Oh, yeah, I read about that in the book about, just like everyone uses the same bathwater.

[700] They're using the same bathwater to the degree where eventually it becomes a sort of sludge, which is so disgusting.

[701] My God.

[702] Nellie reports, quote, they said if I did not want to bathe, that they would use force and that it would not be very gentle.

[703] I shivered.

[704] They began to undress me as one by one they pulled off my clothes.

[705] The water was ice cold and I began to protest.

[706] I begged at least that the patients be made to go away, but I was ordered to shut up.

[707] My teeth chattered and my limbs were goose -fleshed and blue with cold.

[708] Suddenly, I got one after the other, three buckets of water over my head, ice -cold water, too, into my eyes, my nose, and my mouth.

[709] I think I experienced some of the sensations of a drowning person as they dragged me gasping, shivering, and quaking from the tub.

[710] Oh, my God.

[711] At that point, she's like, oh, shit.

[712] Yeah.

[713] She's like, I just got here, and this is already what it's like.

[714] Fuck.

[715] So after being washed, Nellie's wiped down with a sopping wet communal towel, sent away with wet hair given a wet slip sent to bed in a freezing cold room where the only thing she has to cover herself is a scratchy blanket that's too short to cover her body that idea like stopped me as I was writing where I'm like I'm right now furious at that how little it would take to just have the basic comforts it just needs to be a blanket long enough to fit the whole bed.

[716] Right.

[717] So that people can just have a decent, like, rest.

[718] And that's people like we're thinking about ourselves.

[719] Like, we're of sound mind, let's say.

[720] To be, like, suffering from a mental illness that is so bad that you had to get sent to this island and then to be treated that way.

[721] I mean, it's abhorrent.

[722] Yeah.

[723] It's like they're doing anything they can to make everything that much worse for you.

[724] There's no comfort or care or quiet or anything.

[725] Yeah.

[726] Horrible.

[727] She writes about the other woman that she's seen being bathed who are visibly sick and worries about what the cold night might do to their health.

[728] In one heartbreaking example, Nellie says that, quote, nearly all night long, I listen to a woman cry about the cold and beg for God to let her die.

[729] End quote.

[730] So Nellie sees that same woman the next day and she's elderly and blind and the nurses treat her absolutely terribly.

[731] She later reports, quote, sometimes the attendance would jerk her around they would let her walk and heartlessly laughed when she bumped against the table or the edge of benches oh god end quote so this also is this sort of kind of institutional housing gone unchecked right if there's no funds no one's getting paid they're having the bottom of the barrel type of people working there then that invites people with that personality right cruelty Cruelty, maybe you're a masochist, maybe you're a sociopath, they're so exposed and so vulnerable.

[732] The cruelty that Nellie describes at the hands of the asylum's nurses is unbelievably sadistic and terrible.

[733] She sees or hears about women being taunted, hit, choked, and psychologically tortured.

[734] Nellie experiences some of this herself.

[735] She writes about how she and the other patients are forced to sit on an uncomfortable bench for long stretches of time and simply stare at a wall.

[736] The women are punished if they don't maintain perfect posture or if they readjust to get more comfortable.

[737] Nellie says, quote, take a perfectly sane and healthy woman, shut her up and make her sit from 6 a .m. to 8 p .m. on straight back benches.

[738] Do not allow her to talk or move during these hours.

[739] Give her no reading and let her know nothing of the world or its doings.

[740] Give her bad food and harsh treatment and see how long it will take to make her insane.

[741] Holy shit End quote Yeah These are columns being delivered Just in people's regular newspapers They suddenly have this access and insight To something that's happening right there Right right by right It's hard to imagine a more awful place For someone experiencing mental distress These patients are hungry, cold And subjected to constant abuse and humiliation But there's another harrowing aspect To Nellie's reporting She realizes that many of the women in the asylum aren't there for any justifiable medical reason.

[742] This includes a young woman named Sarah Fishbaum, whose, quote, husband put her in the asylum because she had a fondness for men other than himself.

[743] Nellie also befriends a woman named Josephine Desprose, who moved to New York from France, where most of her family still lives.

[744] Josephine tells Nellie that before being sent to Blackwell's Island, she'd contracted a severe viral illness and nearly died.

[745] And while she was very sick, she was taken to some sort of station and it's unclear if it was a police station or a firehouse where she was unable to communicate with the staff because of the language barrier.

[746] And for seemingly no other reason than she didn't speak English, Josephine was sent to Blackwell's Island.

[747] Oh my God.

[748] Nightmare.

[749] So she's like sick and like doesn't know what to do.

[750] So she goes to like the first kind of place she thinks is supposed to help her.

[751] And this is the result.

[752] It's unclear how long Josephine has been at the asylum at the time of Nellie's visit, but enough time has passed that she now seems to be able to speak decent English.

[753] Holy shit.

[754] Sarah Josephine and other women in the asylum tell Nellie that they are, quote, without hope of release, meaning that they believe they're stuck there forever.

[755] And Nellie probably relates.

[756] She's been on Blackwell's Island for an entire hellish week, has no way of contacting anyone on the outside.

[757] She's exhausted, famished, and on edge.

[758] She'll later write that being in the asylum is, quote, a human rat trap.

[759] It's easy to get in, but once there, it's impossible to get out.

[760] Oh, my God.

[761] But thank God, Nellie, has the one thing that no other woman or person on Blackwell's Island has, and that's Joseph Pulitzer's legal team.

[762] On her 10th day in the asylum, Pulitzer's attorney shows up and informs the staff that he's there to pick up a New York world reporter who has been admitted under the name Nellie Brown.

[763] This is presumably a mortifying and horrifying moment for the asylum's administrators.

[764] Nellie is rescued and now has a story to tell.

[765] But leaving is difficult.

[766] It's very difficult.

[767] And she would later write, quote, sadly, I said farewell to all I knew as I passed them on my way to freedom and life while they were left behind to a fate worse than death.

[768] There was a certain pain in leaving.

[769] For 10 days, I had been one of them.

[770] It seemed intensely selfish to leave them to their suffering.

[771] Days later, the New York world publishes Nellie's first article on Blackwell's Island, and she becomes an overnight sensation.

[772] Damn.

[773] In the coming days, her reporting is reprinted in newspapers across the country.

[774] And I'm about to read you part of one of those columns.

[775] In all of them, all these quotes, I'm reading you from Nellie Bly, it all gets turned into her book 10 days in a madhouse.

[776] Got it.

[777] So this part, she says, I always made a point of telling doctors I was sane and asking to be released, but the more I endeavored to assure them of my sanity, the more they doubted it.

[778] What are you doctors here for?

[779] I asked one, whose name I cannot recall, to take care of the patients and test their sanity, he replied.

[780] Very well, I said, there are 16 doctors on this island, and accepting two, I've never seen them pay any attention to the patients.

[781] How can a doctor judge a woman's sanity by merely bidding her good morning and refusing to hear her pleas for release?

[782] Even the sick ones know it's useless to say anything, for the answer will be that it is their imagination.

[783] Try every test on me, I have urged others, and tell me, am I sane or insane?

[784] Try my pulse, my heart, my eyes, ask me to stretch out my arm to work my fingers as Dr. Field did at Bellevue, and then tell me if I am sane.

[785] They would not heed me, for they thought I raised.

[786] Again, I said to one, you have no right to keep sane people here.

[787] I am sane, have always been so, and I must insist on a thorough examination or be released.

[788] Several of the women here are also sane.

[789] Why can't they be free?

[790] They are insane, was the reply and suffering from delusions.

[791] After a long talk with Dr. Ingram, he said, I will transfer you to a quieter ward.

[792] An hour later, Miss Grady called me into the hall, and after calling me all the vile and profane names a woman could ever remember, she told me that it was a lucky thing for my hide that I was transferred.

[793] Oh, my God.

[794] So as more and more people are reading Nellie's harrowing first -hand expose, the heat on the asylum administration starts to get turned up.

[795] Eventually, she is called to testify at a grand jury hearing about the abuses she witnessed at Blackwell's Island.

[796] Her testimony includes returning to the asylum with the jury to inspect the asylum and compare the asylum.

[797] And it to how she described it in her columns.

[798] So here's another part of her book.

[799] She says, The jurors then visited the kitchen.

[800] It was very clean and two barrels of salt stood conspicuously near the open door.

[801] The bread on exhibition was beautifully white and wholly unlike what was given us to eat.

[802] We found the halls in the finest order.

[803] The beds were improved.

[804] And in Hall 7, the buckets in which we were compelled to wash had been replaced with bright new basins.

[805] Mm, bullshit, right?

[806] The institution was on exhibition and no fault could be found.

[807] But the women I had spoke of, where were they?

[808] Not one was to be found where I had left them.

[809] If my assertions were not true in regard to these patients, why should the latter be changed?

[810] So to make me unable to find them.

[811] Miss Neville complained before the jury of being changed several times.

[812] When we visited the hall later, she was returned to her old place.

[813] Mary Hughes, of whom I had spoken as appearing sane, was not to be found.

[814] Some relatives had taken her away, so that's good.

[815] Where they knew not.

[816] The fair woman I spoke of who had been sent there because she was poor, they said had been transferred to another island.

[817] They denied all knowledge of the Mexican woman and said that there never had been such a patient.

[818] Mrs. Cotter had been discharged, and Bridget McGuinness and Rebecca Farron had been transferred to other quarters.

[819] The German girl Margaret was not to be found, and Louise had been sent elsewhere from Hall 6.

[820] The French woman, Josephine, a great healthy woman, they said was dying of paralysis, and we could not see her.

[821] If I was wrong in my judgment of these patients' sanity, why was all this done?

[822] I saw Tilly Mayered, and she had changed so much for the worst that I shuddered when I looked at her.

[823] I hardly expected the grand jury to sustain me after they saw everything different from what had been while I was there, yet they did.

[824] And their report to the court advises all the changes made that I had proposed.

[825] I have one consolation for my work.

[826] On the strength of my story, the committee of appropriation provides $1 million more than ever was given before for the benefit of the insane.

[827] A million dollars.

[828] That's amazing.

[829] So the expose pays off.

[830] The court orders the asylum to make significant changes in patient care.

[831] They increase the asylum's funding by million dollars, which is the equivalent of $32 million in today's money.

[832] Holy shit.

[833] Unfortunately, after a few years, things go back to the old ways, and Blackwell's Island Asylum is once again neglected by the city.

[834] And within a decade of this reporting, of Nellie's reporting, not my reporting, I'm not a reporter.

[835] Quick reminder for everybody, within a decade of Nellie's reporting, it closes for good.

[836] So essentially, they increase it.

[837] But where does the money go?

[838] If the people in the administration are corrupt or they're siphoning stuff, they have no problem treating their patients like that.

[839] Totally.

[840] So Nellie Bly becomes such a star after her expose on Blackwell's Island.

[841] It actually starts a trend across the country where publishers start hiring what they call stunt girls to take on their own socially conscious undercover assignments.

[842] Wow.

[843] Right?

[844] They tackle everything from.

[845] the importance of ambulances to abortion access.

[846] Wow.

[847] And some of these stories lead to meaningful reforms, laws, and policy changes, which is like an amazing detail that I never knew in basically like women journalists.

[848] That's incredible.

[849] Meanwhile, the New York world continues to send its star reporter on assignments that involve increasingly elaborate setups and disguises.

[850] Over the years, Nellie poses as everything from a chorus girl to a domestic worker to a quote unwed mother to expose the baby buying trade.

[851] Holy shit.

[852] But amazingly, Nellie doesn't reach the height of her fame until 1889 at the age of 25.

[853] 25.

[854] Old lady at that point.

[855] This is when she sets out to beat Phileas Fogg's record and travel around the world in less than 80 days.

[856] What?

[857] So that novel around the world in 80 days had come out about 15 years prior.

[858] And a play based on the book ran in front of sold -out audiences in New York City.

[859] And no one had ever tried to actually circle the globe in such a short amount of time.

[860] PBS estimates that even the most adventurous 19th century person might be able to pull it off in around a year.

[861] And a historian named Mitchell Stevens says, quote, when Nellie Bly actually decided to go all around the world, I mean, that was like going up in the space shuttle.

[862] Holy shit.

[863] Right?

[864] She is armed with just one small bag and what will become her signature checkered overcoat.

[865] And Nellie sets off on her adventure from New York.

[866] She takes trains, ships, horses, rickshaws, anything she can find to complete her journey.

[867] In addition to sending regular dispatches back to the New York world, she also talks.

[868] talks with reporters along the way and continues to wear her politics on her sleeve.

[869] When asked about her ambitious journey, Nellie tells a San Francisco Chronicle reporter, quote, oh, I don't know, it's not so very much for a woman to do who has the pluck, energy, and independence, which characterize many women in this day.

[870] Yes.

[871] So she's just repping, wrapping, wrapping, wrapping.

[872] Reping.

[873] I love it.

[874] Marin always includes stuff like this, which I adore her for, but the Smithsonian writes, Quote, Nellie's observation during her trials are astute and frequently humorous, though some of her characterizations will seem racist by today's standards.

[875] Oh, dear.

[876] Yes.

[877] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[878] It's 1889.

[879] This is the way it is.

[880] Sure.

[881] It's all problematic.

[882] Life is problematic back then.

[883] We all see each other in very narrow, desperate ways.

[884] Yeah.

[885] Just being fair and balanced, Maren put that in.

[886] So the New York world promotes Nellie's trafficking.

[887] and they basically make it this huge event, the public cannot get enough.

[888] According to PBS, quote, Nelly Bly songs were being sung in musicals.

[889] A Nelly Bly housecoat was advertised.

[890] That's kind of ironic.

[891] The world, the newspaper, not afraid to cash in on its star reporter, even marketed a parlor game called Round the World with Nellie Bly.

[892] When they announce a contest for fans to send in on how long it'll take Nellie to complete her trip, nearly a million people participate.

[893] Holy shit.

[894] I hope she got a cut of the earnings.

[895] I know.

[896] I hope she got a cut of that house coat.

[897] So in the end, Nellie beat Phineas Fogg by over a week.

[898] She makes the trip around the world in 72 days, six hours, 11 minutes, and 14 seconds.

[899] And with it becomes the most famous woman in the world.

[900] Wow.

[901] Before long, Nellie's.

[902] brand of stunt reporting is seen as somewhat passe.

[903] That's how it is.

[904] Time passes.

[905] But she's not ready to hang up her hat or shy away from taboo subjects.

[906] PBS reports that, quote, in 1893, she interviewed one of the most controversial political figures in the country, anarchist Emma Goldman.

[907] When social unrest seemed to be tearing the nation apart, Bligh went to Chicago to cover the Pullman Railroad Strike, and she was the only reporter to tell the story from the striker's point of view.

[908] Wow.

[909] End quote.

[910] So around this time, Nellie also gets a high -profile interview with a serial killer that you remember because I covered her at our 2017 live show at the Beacon Theater in New York City.

[911] It was Lizzie Halliday.

[912] And Nellie was somehow able to compel Lizzie to share information that she had previously never shared before about her private life.

[913] So she was a great reporter.

[914] And then in 1895, when she's 30 years old, Nellie Marries a 70 -year -old millionaire manufacturer and businessman named Robert Seaman.

[915] And she becomes involved in his companies.

[916] Plot twist.

[917] Wow.

[918] Right?

[919] Yeah.

[920] I mean, look, look.

[921] Listen.

[922] Look and listen.

[923] She nailed down a millionaire.

[924] Yeah.

[925] She took care of business.

[926] she's a smart lady whatever whatever she's doing her thing who are we to judge I'm just trying to think of like what actors are 70 right now although I bet you an 1895 70 year old is like a 140 year old in today's money I think so but yeah who knows here's why Marin thinks and then of course I agree with Marin because she's the researcher that it was a positive and like it was actually a sincere relationship because she becomes involved in his companies, she invents and patents a milk can and a stackable garbage can under her married name.

[927] Wow.

[928] So maybe he's the only one who, like, took her seriously and, like, wanted her in his business and in his world and not just treated her like a, you know.

[929] She certainly wasn't just sitting at home, like, painting her nails and being like, yay, I'm a millionaire's wife.

[930] She's like, I got some ideas.

[931] I dig it.

[932] Me too.

[933] She and Robert have a happy marriage until his passing 10 years later.

[934] Then after his death, Nellie runs his factories, and she sticks to her tried and true principles.

[935] She provides employees with generous health care benefits and access to recreational facilities, among other things.

[936] But even though she's a good boss, she struggles to manage the large company.

[937] And her biographer, Brooke Kroger, reports that she was, quote, hopeless at understanding the financial aspects of her business and ultimately lost everything.

[938] Oof.

[939] But it's Nellie Bly.

[940] So she's down, but she's not out.

[941] Right.

[942] Instead, she throws herself back into journalism, heads to Europe, and reports from the trenches of World War I. Oh, what?

[943] Yeah.

[944] Yeah.

[945] I'll let you know how horrifying World War I is, everybody.

[946] It's me, Nellie Bly.

[947] She also uses her byline to help find homes for orphan children.

[948] And she profiles the women's suffrage movement and Susan B. Anthony.

[949] And according to Kroger, quote, Anthony had been interviewed scores of times during a half century in the suffrage movement, but never had she revealed more information about herself than she did in her exchange with Bly.

[950] Yes.

[951] So she is the shit.

[952] Yeah.

[953] In January of 1922, Nellie Bly dies of pneumonia.

[954] She's just 57 years old.

[955] Wow.

[956] Wow.

[957] So young.

[958] To this day, Nellie's considered a pioneering investigative journalist and early feminist icon.

[959] She's been the subject of countless books.

[960] She's been depicted on a postage stamp.

[961] She's the namesake of express trains, amusement parks, and even a species of tarantula.

[962] Hey.

[963] Her story has been featured on multiple television shows.

[964] Today, if you go to Roosevelt Island, you can visit a monument built in Nellie Bly's honor.

[965] It's the same spot where Blackwell's Island.

[966] asylum used to stand, and the monument is called The Girl Puzzle, which was the title of Nellie's first article for the Pittsburgh Dispatch that demanded women and girls be given more opportunities to thrive in American society.

[967] According to the monument's website, quote, The Girl Puzzle honors Nellie Bly by presenting on a monumental scale faces of many women who have endured hardship, but are stronger for it.

[968] The monument gives visibility to Asian, black, young, immigrant and queer women.

[969] Their stories and lives are forever commemorated alongside Nellie Bly, whose face is cast in silver bronze.

[970] And that is the spectacular story of legendary reporter Elizabeth Pinky Cochran, who's better known as Nellie Bly, the woman who caused a sensation by reporting on the world from a woman's point of view.

[971] Damn.

[972] Damn.

[973] That one was Maren McLaughin.

[974] That was her idea.

[975] She found that story.

[976] She's such a good researcher and such a good writer.

[977] I mean, that just makes me happy.

[978] I didn't know that woman existed.

[979] Why don't we know this woman exists?

[980] I mean, I knew that vaguely story.

[981] I mean, I thought it was Geraldo Rivera, of course, at first.

[982] So, shame on me. But I didn't know she was such a fucking force.

[983] That's amazing.

[984] It's amazing.

[985] Well, great job.

[986] You killed that one.

[987] I really loved it.

[988] I guess that's the importance of getting an education and learning history.

[989] which I never really understood before and wish someone had pointed out, which is just like there's lots of people that have come before us that have kicked us and then gone away as we all do.

[990] Yeah, it's those people that make like incremental movements forward that as a whole you put all the people together and it's this big movement, but like each little story and each life contributes so much to how you and I are able to talk about ourselves and women and how we're able to be able to be.

[991] these confident women who we owe a lot to her you and I owe a lot to this female investigative journalist who spoke the truth you know and when people are brave in the face of like when everything else is telling them they shouldn't be brave yeah and you read about that and it's not 2023 it's 18 fucking 89 yeah and she's 20 and she's an orphan or you know the orphan girl basically where she's like, hey, how about you shut up and I tell you how it actually is?

[992] Like, we think people are just starting to do that now on social media, but it's like, no, no, there's a long history of very intelligent, smart women who have been doing this for a long time and then having people either erase their accomplishments or step in front of them and take credit for it.

[993] And it's great to be able to highlight somebody like that.

[994] I love that.

[995] Great job.

[996] That was a great one.

[997] It was a great standalone one.

[998] next week, we'll be back to two stories.

[999] That's right.

[1000] I had to do a little homework so Georgia didn't have to do all the standalone stories.

[1001] Thank you.

[1002] I love a week off.

[1003] Oh, my God.

[1004] It's the fucking best.

[1005] It's really fun.

[1006] Well, great job.

[1007] Thank you to all of you for listening and hanging out with us and being our friends.

[1008] Yes, you are all future Nellie Blytheid's in your own way.

[1009] Get out there.

[1010] Give them hell and stay sexy.

[1011] And don't get murdered.

[1012] Goodbye.

[1013] Bye.

[1014] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1015] Ah.

[1016] This has been an exactly right production.

[1017] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1018] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Creighton.

[1019] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1020] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachie.

[1021] Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin.

[1022] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[1023] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at MyFave Murder.

[1024] Goodbye.

[1025] Follow my favorite murder on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen so you don't miss an episode.

[1026] If you like what you hear, rate and review the show.

[1027] Visit exactly right store .com to purchase my favorite murder merch.