Molly Mae: How She Became Creative Director Of PLT At 22

[0] I'm the creative director of pretty little thing.

[1] Like, I'm not just an influence anymore.

[2] This is just the start for me. I'm only 22.

[3] I've got so much more to learn.

[4] We literally only are given one life.

[5] We have to just go to the extremes.

[6] I've worked my absolute ass off to get where I am now.

[7] A lot of people don't believe that, but I work.

[8] I spend time with my boyfriend and I go to bed.

[9] That is actually my life.

[10] I can't have anybody knowing where I live.

[11] I actually have clothes protection, security now, and really there's no price on feeling safe.

[12] That was like a really, really low moment for me. When we got back, it just felt, cold and eerie and it just didn't feel like home anymore.

[13] He could literally go away for weeks on end and there's not a doubt in my mind that if he was to be around a load of girls, I could sleep peacefully at night knowing that he's just, he's for me and I am for him and that is literally the key.

[14] You've got trust you've got everything.

[15] There's so much more to it than people see.

[16] They have no idea what really goes on.

[17] I mean I would never say like I've had like a mental breakdown but that was close to it because I just went crazy.

[18] Molly May she is in my opinion and according to a lot of the data, the UK's number one Instagram, influencer, creator, right now.

[19] She started out many years ago on a show called Love Island, but many people have been on Love Island, and nobody ever has had the meteoric rise in their brand, their career, their profile, like Molly has.

[20] So as much as it's easy to say, well, okay, you know, she had a boost from Love Island, that does not explain what's happened in her life subsequently.

[21] So I wanted to sit down with her today and find out exactly what's driving her, what's caused this meteoric success, almost 10 million followers in no time at all, 25 ,000 new followers a day.

[22] Just imagine for a second, being thrust to the number one spot in terms of influence and having tens of millions of followers online, becoming a multi -millioner.

[23] overnight and being 22 years old.

[24] Imagine.

[25] Imagine the mistakes you would make.

[26] It's absolutely fascinating.

[27] And the way she deals with it, I think you'll find incredibly inspiring.

[28] And what comes with that success?

[29] Recently her house was burgled, and she reportedly lost £800 ,000 worth of her possessions and had to move immediately to a new home.

[30] She now has to have 24 -7 close protection security.

[31] And I'll be honest with you.

[32] This is something Molly and her manager and team shared with me before we started recording.

[33] Molly doesn't do interviews like this.

[34] So this really is, in many respects, her first real in -depth interview of this kind.

[35] And I can't wait for you to hear it.

[36] So without further ado, I'm Stephen Bartlett.

[37] And this is the diary of a CEO.

[38] I hope nobody's listening.

[39] But if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

[40] Hitchin.

[41] That's where you grew up, right?

[42] Take me back to Hitchin.

[43] What was life like when you were growing up there?

[44] Hitchin.

[45] I actually still am extremely fond of Hitchin.

[46] And it was a really, it's a really, really special place for me. I spent 18 years there growing up in a very normal house with a very normal family, doing very normal things in a very normal school, not a private school, anything.

[47] It was just an extremely normal area to live in.

[48] I loved it.

[49] And I got my first job there.

[50] I had a lot of first there and I think it will always hold a special place in my heart.

[51] I was a lifeguard there at a swimming pool for four years.

[52] I had a job in hair dresses.

[53] I worked in a gym.

[54] It was all going on in hitching.

[55] That's where it all began, obviously.

[56] So yeah.

[57] Family dynamics, brothers, sisters, mum and dad.

[58] Tell me about your family, what they do, who they are, what their character.

[59] So I have one sister.

[60] She's actually in the army.

[61] She's three years older than me. People are always shocked when I say I have a sister that's in the army because obviously it's so, so different to what I do.

[62] But I'm actually really proud of that.

[63] I think it's, I never really say that, but I'm super proud that she is who she is and we've grown up to be such different people.

[64] But both parents were in the police.

[65] So that was interesting growing up.

[66] Something else that I'm really proud of actually having two parents at police officers because I don't know, I quite liked it at school, like sort of being known as a police officer's kid.

[67] Like I kind of liked it.

[68] No one really messed with me. It was quite, yeah, like even at parties.

[69] Like, I think even a couple of times, my dad actually, when I remember one time, my dad actually showed up to shut a party down that I was at.

[70] Yeah.

[71] Oh, wow.

[72] It was that kind of thing, having parents as police officers, but I didn't mind it.

[73] And at that age, when you're in Hitchin, what is it that you want to be when you grow up?

[74] Oh, God.

[75] I mean, I always wanted to be doing something different.

[76] I mean, I went to fashion school for two years because I really wanted to pursue a career in fashion.

[77] All my friends sort of stayed on and went to six.

[78] form and college but i again i wanted to do something different i wanted to do something outside the box so i had an interview at the fashion retail academy in london and i got got a spot there and i ended up going there for two years and studying there i was commuting to london every day it's like 17 um so yeah it was outside my comfort zone but i'm i'm really glad i did that because it was just different i love doing things that were different and did you did you have a because when i was younger i wanted to be a dentist and a doctor and then a surgeon at one point and then you know i bounced around and then I was like, I want to manage a business.

[79] Yeah.

[80] What were you saying to yourself in terms of what you would be when you were older?

[81] Did you have, was it fashion something?

[82] I think when I was younger, it was mainly performing arts.

[83] I've definitely got that performing art streak in me. I think a lot of people that sort of fall into being in the public eye do have a bit of like that performing art streak in them because they have that confidence.

[84] But I couldn't quite make it in that.

[85] I tried auditions.

[86] I tried, you know, castings, all this.

[87] But I didn't quite have that.

[88] I wasn't quite there.

[89] And I sort of accepted that very quickly and realized to do well in performing arts, you have to be.

[90] the best.

[91] It's like the most cutthroat industry.

[92] People say fashion's cutthroat.

[93] No. Performing arts is like it's not an industry you mess around in.

[94] So I accepted quite quickly that wasn't going to work for me. So fashion was where I focused on.

[95] And I really did think that I was going to end up being like a fashion buyer, like a large business or that's that's kind of what I wanted to do.

[96] Your, your mum and dad lived very, as police officers, very solid lives and careers right yeah um did you at that young age did you because i'm trying to understand from like a very young young age and i always ask this about myself like how much of it was this kind of in in a desire to have more and be different and not live the standard life yeah um or how much of it is just you know following following the heart and seeing seeing where it goes i think for me watching my parents to have a very ordinary life it is sort of petrified me a bit it was like a bit terrifying this thought of I don't want to grow up in this house.

[97] And when I'm old in my rocking chair, I tell my grandkids, you know, like I had this really ordinary life and I had an ordinary job.

[98] I had an ordinary income like that.

[99] It petrified me from, I think around, I reckon I started feeling that way from about 15.

[100] I realized like the world is literally our oyster and we can do whatever we want with the 24 hours in the day that we're given.

[101] So why the hell am I not going to go out and like make the most of them and do crazy things and make the most of it?

[102] So yeah, I think my parents having this very ordinary job like I mean please obviously it's not necessarily that ordinary but for me it was like it just terrified me I was like I don't want to have this life in hitching forever it's I know that there's so much more to achieve and I moved to Manchester um when I was 18 and started my life there I just moved out I literally said to my mom one day I walked down into the living room and I'll never forget it and I said I found this flat on right move and I'm moving to Manchester and she was like no you're not I was like no no I'm going She was like, you don't have enough money.

[103] I was like, I'll find it.

[104] Like, I'll make this work.

[105] And I literally went within a week and I was gone.

[106] I packed all my stuff up when I just left.

[107] And I moved to Manchester.

[108] And I remember the first night in my apartment in Manchester in Ancoats.

[109] I was like, oh, what have I done?

[110] I was like, this was the worst move.

[111] But I felt so homesick.

[112] It was horrendous.

[113] But then I settled in and it was the best thing I ever did, looking back on it now.

[114] Were you moving for a job?

[115] Were you moving just because I was sick of hit you?

[116] I thought of, at that point, I sort of missed out apart.

[117] I sort of started to grow, following on Instagram.

[118] and it was growing quite rapidly and I'd found a management in Manchester so I just thought I'm just going to go up there and just see what happens like what's the worst that can happen and all sort of the fast fashion companies and everything was in Manchester at that point it became like the new place to be and so I just thought let's go let's do it and yeah I went by myself no one believed that I was going to do it and I just did and yeah I definitely couldn't afford my rent my mom was right I think if I'd stay there any longer I probably would have had to move back home at some point because I really couldn't afford my rent I think it was like 900 pounds a month and I was barely making a thousand pounds a month so after my rent I had about £100 to live on and a Starbucks at that point is what £5 so it um but yeah no it was the best thing I ever dig because he's still in Manchester now and I don't plan on leaving I love it do you consider yourself to be just thinking about that taking that step because you can often see in people's journeys there's that like one step into uncertainty where people think well don't know why she did that or I wouldn't have done that myself but your career seems to be riddled with these kind of steps into uncertainty yeah would you consider yourself to be at that age especially a confident person yeah i've always been extremely confident i've never ever struggled with um my confidence like even meeting new people trying new things like i've never i've never i've never felt unconfident in any situation which i'm really blessed to have that like even you know when i went on love island like going to my additions super confident always super confident in everything i do everything i i stand by like i just have that confidence and yeah i'm I'm lucky to have that because I think it's something that just comes.

[119] You can't really build on it.

[120] Like, it's either there or it's not.

[121] So, yeah, very confident person.

[122] Do you think you're, as you kind of like, so if we zoom forward a little bit, we'll zoom back.

[123] But as you zoom forward on this point of confidence, one of the things that I learned in my life is as I managed to do more things and achieve more things, I actually realized that the previous version of myself knew so little about the nature of the world.

[124] And I just want to like scream back at myself, oh my God, Steve, even though you were ambitious then and confident then you were wrong like you can do even more and yeah as you as you look back on that that you know that young girl in hitching yeah um and other people who'll be in that situation i'm the same i'm from a small town where there's not a lot of you know yeah global dreaming no definitely not um what what have you learned about the nature of like confidence and and how it builds and how you're how capable and how you know powerful your potential really is as you've boom boom climb up the ladder I think it's just believing in that Beyonce has the same 24 hours in a day that we do and I just think like it's literally you're given one life and it's down to you what you do with it like you can literally go in any direction and when I've spoken about that before in the past I have been slammed a little bit with people saying you know like it's easy for you to say that you know you've grown up and you've not grown up in poverty you've not grown up you know with major money struggles so if you to sit there and say that we all have the same 24 hours in a day it's not correct and I'm like but technically what I'm saying is correct we do so i understand that obviously we all have different backgrounds and we're all raised in different ways and we do have different financial situations but i think if you want something enough you can achieve it and it just depends to what lengths you want to go to get where you want to be in the future and i'll go to any lengths like i i've worked my absolute ars off to get where i am now a lot of people don't think that and believe that but it's true i've worked so so hard on that point of time and bionso yeah that kind of that uh that kind of mindset of being very, very efficient with how you spend your time, you must get a million requests to do everything.

[125] Like, I get a lot of requests.

[126] You must be getting pulled, pushed, do this, do that.

[127] How do you make the decision as to what is truly in line with who you are and where you want to go?

[128] When, you know, like, I don't think people will understand thousands.

[129] You're probably getting thousands of requests, DMs, opportunities, some of them which I'm sure you love to do.

[130] But as you say, 24 hours in the day.

[131] Yeah.

[132] So how are you filtering that?

[133] I think what you've just said is actually the key to why I've become successful in what I do is because it is so strict with what I do take on and what I don't take on.

[134] My days are planned out to like the nth degree.

[135] Like it is so particular what work I'm doing.

[136] And everything is done with such thought and like such understanding behind it.

[137] Like I'm never taken on work that I don't understand or posting things on my socials that I'm not 100 % behind or using.

[138] I think that is the key to being successful in this industry and influencing, if you want to call it.

[139] Like, it's, it's knowing what you're doing and knowing what you're talking about is, is gospel.

[140] Like, you use those products.

[141] You, you stand behind what you're saying.

[142] Like, I think that is why I've, I have done well in what I, and what I do, because I am so believing in what I say.

[143] And my followers know that.

[144] Like, they, they know that I'm not talking about something on my YouTube unless I use it unless I, I believe in it.

[145] And that is the key to being successful in this you have to have the trust of your audience so what work we take on is it's honestly one percent of what comes in less probably frank gets i'm not even joking 800 emails a day for work coming in it's it never stop she's on our emails from 500 from 5 a m going through work that comes in and it's you have to turn down so much to to earn that respect from your audience and earn that trust and between you and your manager fran do you then have to kind of initially agree where you want to go with your career what your values are what aligns with you yeah and that kind of becomes the filter of these 800 messages a day is that the we we set goals we have like fran and i have like this sort of regular meeting every like six months or so and we we sit down and we we make a list of what i want to achieve and it used to be well at the start we were like going to do it every year but i'm i am achieving them rapidly now so we're doing it like every few months and creating new goals and setting new new targets of like i want to work with this brand so if they've not reached to me fran will reach out And lo and behold, it normally happens where we're a really, really great team.

[146] And I think having a manager that understands, well, your direction and what you want to do is utterly key.

[147] Because, you know, it's just so important.

[148] Like, you can't do it alone.

[149] It's impossible.

[150] Like, okay, it's not impossible, but it's, I couldn't do it alone.

[151] No way.

[152] So having a manager that really, really understands where you want to go is just so, so, so important, I think.

[153] And there's a pretty remarkable long -termism to your mindset that I, I garnered from watching some of the videos that you'd made.

[154] One in particular was the video where a brand has come along and offered you two million quid to like be the face of their brand or do a partnership with them.

[155] Yeah.

[156] And Fran has presented you with that opportunity.

[157] Yeah.

[158] And you said, no, I don't want to do that.

[159] Yeah.

[160] Two million quid, Molly.

[161] Yeah, no, I said, no. If that brand is still looking for a face.

[162] Oh my God.

[163] That's, no. Why did you say?

[164] That's the thing.

[165] Like, as I just said before, like, Like, no amount of money can make me take a job that I don't believe in.

[166] If I'm not wearing the clothes, I'm not taking the job, no matter if they offered me $5 million, 10 million.

[167] And I just solely believe that because the money will come from your audience, like, appreciating that you didn't take that job.

[168] And do you know what I'm saying like it is?

[169] I'd rather build that trust than take that money because the trust is what will earn you money in the future anyway.

[170] So I know that $2 million is going to come back to me at some point because I'll work with another brand that I do believe in instead.

[171] And my audience will see that and they'll buy into it.

[172] They'll like the picture.

[173] they'll engage with the content whereas they're not going to if I took that brand deal before because the audience see through they're not stupid like people I follow on Instagram that I love when they do something that's not authentic I see straight through it because you're the consumer like you know and it's just yeah I think I knew you'd bring out that 2 million one because everyone was really fascinated by it I think everyone was really shot but that's the side to me that people don't see and I was really glad that me and Fran had that chat on my YouTube because it show people that you know there's so much more to it than people see with this whole influencing thing they have no idea what really goes on and my last point on this at this point of you and Fran one of the things I found actually quite remarkable is when you're coming down today and you know we were sorting out the logistics and those things you and Fran stayed in the same hotel room yeah which is not typical of you know manager and client yeah how close are you and Fran in we're literally like best friends she's I say like she's like a second mum to me like it it's grown that way because we spend like we spend every day together we're on the phone 24 -7 like I speak to her more than I speak to Tommy absolutely like it's the constant constant conversation it never stops if we're not on the phone we're texting if we're not texting we're in person with each other um yeah so like even after the last few weeks what's been going with Tommy and I like Fran took us in she's looked after us it's she's like my mum in Manchester like without her I honestly don't know how I'd have got through the last few years of my life like she's she's, yeah, much more than manager, and I'm so blessed.

[174] I know it's not a normal situation, but people to have a manager like that.

[175] And I know when you come out of a show like Love Island, having that manager that is on it is so key.

[176] It is honestly so, so key, because without that, it can really, really fluff things up for you, which I've seen first time with so many people, and it's so sad.

[177] But yeah.

[178] So let's talk about that then.

[179] So Love Island, I don't want to talk too much about it because I think everybody understands the show and the concept of it, but when you first were presented with the opportunity and you're debating, Because a lot, you know, I think everyone's got a mate who says, oh, yeah, Love Island asked me to be on it.

[180] And I said, no, that nonsense, right?

[181] When you first were presented with the opportunity, what was your incentive for saying yes?

[182] Well, it's tricky.

[183] I've always struggled with how to talk about it because I answered a question once on my YouTube about, was Love Island a business move for you?

[184] And it is tricky for me to say the right thing without upsetting people, but put it this way.

[185] I didn't go on that show to find love.

[186] No one does.

[187] People go on it for the experience.

[188] go on there for a laugh and I think because I went on there with a completely probably incorrect mindset that's why I did come out with a boyfriend and I think because you know when you're not expecting something it happens but yeah I remember that they came forward and I just thought at the time my influencing was going really well and there was actually a side of me that thought I can actually do this without going on this show like I know I'll be fine either way my following my following was growing rapidly like I think I was about 170 ,000 followers at that point and that was all organic growth there was no TV shows or anything and I hadn't had any friends of large followings that sort of posted me it was all very natural growth so I knew I'd I'd say now that if I hadn't gone on the show I'd probably be I'd like to say I'd be hitting a million followers because I had that really good work ethic with my Instagram but the show just sort of it just elevated me and then I think one thing I always say is that when you come off that show you're all on a level playing field and it's totally up to you where you go with it and I just knew that I wanted to go just to levels that no one had ever gone to and that's why I never really speak about it because I just feel like I don't owe that's not the reason why I am where I am now yeah it gave me a platform yeah it elevated me but the things I've done now are not because of Love Island they're because of me and what I've decided to do my work ethic so I want to drill down on that point then so you're completely right Love Island is a platform but it's super super clear that if you look at the outcome of everybody that's been on that platform the results are wildly varying and you're you've you know you're part of that platform yeah but what's happened to you subsequently after you've been on that show yeah is um unprecedented there's not been another example of someone who has risen so high following being involved in that platform yeah so what is it about you and you know your character you're you know whatever it might be i don't want to put the answer in your mouth what is it about you that's that's caused that so many different things but I think I knew the minute I came off that show that I just wanted to do crazy things and one thing for me is that when I reach one goal it's what can I achieve next it's never enough for me and I think it's a bit of a downside to my personality because when I achieve something incredible I just want more I always want more like I remember I was speaking to fan about this I was like I remember when my goal was I really want to get a million pounds in my bank account that's all I wanted to do I was like that is my goal And then the minute minute I reached it, I was like, well, I want two now.

[189] I want two million.

[190] And it's like I never am happy with where I'm at.

[191] I'm constantly working towards the next thing.

[192] But I think you need that, you need that work ethic.

[193] You need that desire to always want more.

[194] It's never enough for me. Even when I got my biggest dream collabs and it's just what can I get next?

[195] Fran's thick of it as well.

[196] She's like, it's enough now.

[197] Come on.

[198] When someone hears that, they might think, well, how do you, how do you, how, how, how would you be happy and satisfied and content whilst always striving to have more and more and more and once you get to that mountain top or what you thought was the mountain top they call it like a false peak and climbing where you get to that bit and then you look up and there's more to go yeah and you can so how do you find the happiness amongst and amidst the climb yeah I'm working on that I think because even recently that we moved into a new place we moved into this new house and I've realized I've actually got a bit of a problem with it because I was like this house is literally a dream it's a dream but it's not enough for me because I still want more like I still want a bigger house I still want bigger things and it's like I need to work on that because you do need to find that happiness because you know 16 17 year old me is screaming at the things I'm doing right now and I'm still like it's not enough you know but I think that's why I'm doing the things I'm doing and I am achieving great things because it's I'm never sort of like okay I'm happy this week I'll just sit down and this is fine no it's like what we do in next week it's it's always more why do you think you want more what does it what emotionally psychologically in the mind what what what is it that's saying that more why is more important I think again going back to that point where like when I when I'm older and I've got my kids around me and I want to literally look back and say like my life was unbelievable like I did every single thing I could possibly ever want to do there's not one thing on my list that's not ticked and I think I'm not there yet and I know I can achieve more because it's possible so why not not like we literally only are given one life we have to just go to the extremes and that's what I'm trying to do I am I'm very much the same in many ways and over the years I think I got to a point where my book is called happy sexy millionaire because at 18 I wrote in my diary.

[199] Bear in mind I was living in Mosside and didn't have a driving license a range of a sport will be my first car make a million before I'm 25 I have a girlfriend and I'll have a six pack basically right there's my life goals brilliant 24 I'm driving a range of a sport I'm a millionaire whatever whatever whatever and then that anti -climax of getting there yes this like feeling of where's the marching band in the confetti like it's a huge anti -climax isn't it it's it's mental like don't get me wrong it's incredible to reach your goals but it is a little bit oh you know when you hear people's the richest people in the world and they say you're not happy though because you have all this money think yeah you are happy like all sure you've got all this money but they're probably not because it really actually doesn't mean anything all of that stuff your happiness comes from within and the people around you and your life it doesn't come from how much money you have in your bank and what car you drive and what house you live in it really doesn't it sounds cliche but i've i've learned that and i'm only 22 in it and i've realized that straight away i'm like oh gosh okay it actually doesn't come from all this stuff it comes from your mental state and and your family and that the more important stuff really the non -superficial stuff that anti -climax is very real then my concern as you've said there is like i just was scared that i'd never be happy if i'm not happy now because yeah like this is you're like i think for both of us from what you said anyway this is the dream that hitching molly may yeah dreamed of and you and hitching molly me at 17 said when we get there at 22 we're going to be happy i'll sit on my sofa and i won't work another day and i'll be happy and i'll just it's not that way it isn't you think it will be and don't get me wrong it's incredible and i'm so happy i'm the happiest i've ever been i take i don't want for more but i do if that makes sense i don't have you got a lot of friends no i don't that's a blank question yeah no there's lots of blunt questions here um straight up no no i don't and my circle is minuscule.

[200] I have literally about five people in my circle, and that includes friends.

[201] I have acquaintances, and I have people in my life that I say are my friends, but I know, my circle is absolutely tiny, and I like it that way.

[202] I wouldn't have it any other way.

[203] I work, I spend time with my boyfriend, and I go to bed, that is actually my life.

[204] And I'm not bothered about a social life.

[205] It's never been something that I've been interested in.

[206] I don't know if you've like, I don't know if you know, but I don't really drink.

[207] I don't party.

[208] I don't go out.

[209] But that is just because I actually don't enjoy it.

[210] It's not for me. I'd rather just focus on making money, being successful and being happy.

[211] That's friends, they come and go.

[212] And I just, I find it a waste of a bit of a waste of time.

[213] So you don't, you don't actively want more friends.

[214] No. Yeah.

[215] No, it's, it's time consuming.

[216] Like, trying to make people happy.

[217] Like, I've lost a lot of friends, but since coming off Love Island, because I don't have the time.

[218] And I, and in the end, I just say, do you know what, look, like, I'd rather.

[219] are the focus on the things that are actually going to elevate me. And it sounds savage, but sometimes friends, they just not cling on, but they, they don't add much.

[220] And that sounds a bit savage, but.

[221] No, it's true.

[222] And especially when you evolve as a person, you kind of sometimes, I think you lose the thing that made you resonate with certain people.

[223] A hundred percent.

[224] Well, I'm not that girl from Hitchin anymore.

[225] And, you know, like, I'm not that young girl that was a lifeguard at Hitchin swimming pool.

[226] Like, that's not me. I've, I'm living a completely different.

[227] different world now and a lot of my friends can't relate to that and even though i'm still the same person my life and my circumstances they're just so different that you do just naturally just people just fall off don't they but i've never i've never needed lots of friends it's just something that i've never really needed and people pick up on pick up that about me really quickly they just say like you've got your circle so small a bit of a loner but i like it i you know i i ask that question in part because every successful person i've sat here with doesn't have a lot of friends no and you know I was actually having a conversation with one of the previous guests on this podcast, and she's got two and a half million followers on Instagram, and she was telling me last night that she has one friend, it's her boyfriend.

[228] Yeah, sounds about right.

[229] She literally said, I have one friend and it's my boyfriend.

[230] Yeah, that sounds about right for me. And it's sometimes, it's weird, because when I ask people this question, it feels really uncomfortable.

[231] Yeah, when you first said it, I was like, oh, God, no, I don't.

[232] But it's, yeah, it's a weird one because you don't want to sound like you, you don't have any friends because then people think, well, you're probably the problem there.

[233] Do you know what I mean?

[234] Like, you're pushing people away, but, But it isn't that.

[235] It's just like, I haven't got the time.

[236] Like, I really would rather just spend time with Fran because we're friends and we talk about work and we get, you know, we make money.

[237] And then I spend time with my boyfriend because he's amazing.

[238] And it doesn't, you don't need to force the conversation.

[239] You'd have to go for dinners and spit the bill.

[240] It's just like, oh, it sounds terrible.

[241] But I just don't have the time for it.

[242] I'm lazy with it.

[243] Has it become hard to trust people, especially following, you know, your meteoric rise.

[244] in the public eye, does it get more difficult to trust, yeah, people, because they're always, you know, people always, well, sometimes people are in it for themselves, they're trying to sell stuff, stories about you, or they're trying to take advantage.

[245] Yeah, I've been quite blessed with my rise in that I, because my circle has always been small.

[246] I've not really had to cut people off because they're, you know, selling stories to the press.

[247] I've never had that.

[248] I mean, I know of anyway.

[249] I mean, yeah, but yeah, I mean, you do have to be worried about who's in your life because I think Fran always says this to me. She's like, you just think you're still that 17 -year -old girl from Hitchin, sometimes you're not.

[250] And people will come into your life for the wrong reasons.

[251] But I think I'm a bit naive to that sometimes.

[252] And that is another reason why keep my circle so small because it's different now.

[253] I think it's just, it's hard to trust people.

[254] I was watching something you said about how you've been very open about sharing the lows and the highs that have come with your meteoric rise and the publicity and being in the public eye.

[255] It's very easy to see a lot of the clear upsides, right?

[256] the nice things they're like general sense of i'd say like freedom to choose freedom of choice in your career and stuff like that but what are some of the like trade -offs of that success which you just think oh that sucks well there's a lot there's lots obviously i've dealt with a lot in the last two years in terms of i was trolled extremely badly i mean it's like a cliche topic and i don't really talk about the trolling a lot because it's i feel like it's all anyone talks about on social media these days is trolls and trolling and but it it's it's it's it did happen to me extremely badly.

[257] And there was this one time we went to Barbados to shoot a campaign for my fate town business.

[258] And we were followed the whole trip by paparazzi.

[259] We didn't even realize.

[260] And they were posing as like architecture of photographers in front of this building.

[261] And I did think at one point I was like, is that guy taking pictures of me?

[262] But I just thought, I know he's taking pictures of the building behind me. There's no way in Barbados that they're going to be taking pictures of me. Anyway, that afternoon, me stood in this white bikini, like completely like, they were just the most horrendous pictures in my eyes and I actually rang the daily mail myself.

[263] I went through to someone on customer service and I just was like, this is Molly May, you must take those pictures down now.

[264] Like I was hysterically crying and I was, and this poor person on customer service was like, what is going on?

[265] And I was just screaming down the phone like, please, like you've ruined my life.

[266] Like, look at the comments under that picture.

[267] Like, please take them down.

[268] And it was just like when I look back at that now, I mean, I would never say like I've had like a mental breakdown, but that was close to it because I'd lost, I just went crazy.

[269] I was like screaming down the phone at this personal customer service that could do anything about it but for me I was like this is going to make it better like if they take them down it'll all go away but that was like a really really low moment for me probably like the lowest of coming out of the show it was horrendous it was just horrendous like people calling me fat overweight and I'm size 8 so like it just it made me so upset to think that if people are calling me over way you know a girl a very normal size 10 girl like what are they going to be thinking if I'm being called fat like it's it's hard breaking and I think the whole trolling thing like I have kind of dealt with it now like I'm really good at dealing with it I sort of have this approach of like if it doesn't matter like people can say what they want to say these people are just genuinely so unhappy in their lives that they try and bring you down and it's so sad but you do learn to deal with it it's just part of it and we're really we've learned in terms of like we're always on Pappwatch now and if we go away on campaigns like we literally have someone that's job is specifically to look out for people taking pictures so it doesn't happen again because it was it was quite bad that for me those daily email comments really are cesspool of just vileness.

[270] I remember when I was announced as a dragon and dragon's den.

[271] And like, I don't look at comment sections because I'm just really not bothered.

[272] It's like not going to add to my life.

[273] But then my family calling me and being like, oh my God, those comments are all racist.

[274] I'm like, don't look at the photo.

[275] My mom does that to me. She goes, have you seen the comments on Daily Mail?

[276] I'm like, mom, why would you tell me that?

[277] Like, you don't look.

[278] I'm not looking.

[279] So neither do you.

[280] I just leave it.

[281] But yeah, I think obviously they're just looking out for you and they don't understand that you're probably just trying to avoid it.

[282] That's a pretty remarkable way to live as you're talking about you know being on holiday and having someone on Pat Watch and you must always be on edge Yeah you are you are always on edge And it's a weird way to live But it's become normal now It's been two and a half years And that was really early on in Barbados That was I think maybe three months Four months after I'd come out of the show And that was okay This is how we need to live now This is how we need to do things And it's just been the same And having an incredible team as well To be protective of you Is I'm really lucky for that because I couldn't do it by myself is you know it really vulnerable like it's such a vulnerable job to have and yeah perhaps posing as architect photographers like it's just the snakes everywhere yeah before we started recording fran your manager told me that you are a little bit of a perfectionist and that you care a lot about getting all the details right for your customers but across your life generally so i guess my question to you is how do you how do you dare i say worry about details and also still maintain your peace of mind?

[283] I mean it's compartmentalising it.

[284] It's sort of like I don't really switch off.

[285] It's almost like I just sort of built into my mind.

[286] It's a 24 -7.

[287] It's always, always thinking in the back of my mind, how everything I'm doing is affecting my work because that's, I am my job at the end of the day.

[288] Like I'm Molly May and Molly May is what makes me my income.

[289] It's not like I go to work and I come back and I switch.

[290] shopper, I'm 24 -7 on my phone.

[291] So everything I'm doing, everything I'm saying, one story post that takes two seconds to post, everything I do affects how I make money, how my audience perceives me. So it's, I just think, I've just sort of like, I don't know, it becomes one.

[292] My life is just, is.

[293] It sounds chaotic, right?

[294] And it also sounds like, I find it pretty remarkable based on people I've spoken to that live in a similar way that are very neurotic and that are always one and always thinking.

[295] And then are in the, middle of the like social media instant feedback bubble yeah how do you avoid being anxious and that's in that within that cauldron you you really just have to sort of accept that instagram is instagram and there's always going to be that one person on an instagram that that doesn't like what you're doing i've got 6 .2 million followers it is impossible to please everybody so i've really had to understand that you know everything i say and everything i do not everyone's going to like it and about how much i wish they did because it would put my mind at a lot knowing that everybody loves what I'm doing.

[296] There's always going to be that one person that hates what you're doing and hates you.

[297] So you just sort of have to sort of understand that Instagram is just, it's very superficial and it's just a highlight real.

[298] That's why I love my YouTube as well because I feel like my YouTube is so behind the scenes.

[299] It's, you really get that, that bigger picture.

[300] You see the bad stuff that's happening in my day.

[301] And I think, do you know what?

[302] I think not to sound big headed, but I think that is why I have a really high engagement on my Instagram is because my followers, they see me on YouTube and they see that picture on Instagram when they think, we know that she's not actually had a good day.

[303] We know that she's actually, I spoke about a few months ago how I wanted this really, really incredible job opportunity and I didn't get it.

[304] And I'm really transparent.

[305] Like I'm like, today's been crap.

[306] I've cried today.

[307] Like I've come on my period today.

[308] I'm feeling really rubbish today.

[309] Like I'm really, really transparent.

[310] So I think when they see that picture on Instagram, they know, actually if we want to see a bit more of like a realist side here we'll just go to our YouTube and have a look and I love that that is why I to all my influence of friends I say start YouTube start YouTube if you want your engagement to grow if you want your audience to fall in love with you if you want people to understand you more you have to start YouTube because Instagram is it's nothing it's a picture I post one picture a day what's anyone going to learn from that picture nothing YouTube is where it's at that's where they learn that's where they engage with you and understand you and believe in you And that's the depth, right?

[311] It's so important.

[312] Like, I do YouTube because I love it.

[313] I still edit all my own content.

[314] Really?

[315] Yeah.

[316] I'm really, I love it.

[317] I actually find it therapeutic, editing my videos.

[318] And I love when I finish editing a video and I upload it.

[319] I love that sense of I just created that.

[320] And it's bigger than just editing an Instagram picture and putting it through color tone and putting a filter on it.

[321] You've spent time developing that video and you've created it.

[322] And millions people are going to go and watch that and spend their 20 minutes of their day watching that video that you've created.

[323] And I love that feeling.

[324] That's really special.

[325] And I've had so many video editors say, like, oh, I'll do it.

[326] And I would never give that job to someone else.

[327] One of the things I find really fascinating, and it's linked to what you said there about being very honest and open with your audience.

[328] But at the same time, again, if we're talking about things that feel like they don't marry together or they feel like contradictions is as you rise and rise and rise and as you experience more like material success and you can buy nicer of things, do you become less relatable to your audience?

[329] And is this, is this something you think about?

[330] Because the girl, you know, that is 16 right now living in Hitchens, looking up at you and you're getting, you're getting apparently further and further away from being, you know.

[331] That's such an interesting question.

[332] When you say that, then I was like, that's a really valid point.

[333] And I actually, don't know me wrong, I'll be honest.

[334] I do see comments on my Instagram saying, like, you know, can you do like a more high street hall this week?

[335] Can you talk about more high street clothes because don't forget in that six million followers there's such a wide variety of people there's that 45 year old mum that's you know living on food stamps that's you know and she's got no money and she wants to see me post really normal things but then i've got probably another girl that's following me an 18 year old girl that dad funds their life and they want to see the glamour it's there's it's it's impossible to sort of cater for everyone i try and as i sort of as you say as i sort of my life is changing so much I still try and stay as relatable as possible and I do I would say that I am still extremely relatable and again that's my YouTube I post yeah all these incredible things that I bar my Instagram and I've sort of stopped doing that now but I well oh because yeah yeah but I I sort of that's again my YouTube is I'm there's in a vlog I might be saying oh I've just bought this brand new watch it's amazing it's cost X amount and I'm having a really great day but then I also might say, you know, me and Tommy just had a huge argument and I've walked out of the house.

[336] I, it's in a vlog, I try and keep that balance as much as possible so I can sort of, not because I cater for everyone, it's just because I am that way.

[337] Life is that way, you know, when you're being honest, one minute something's really great, the next minute something's really shit, and that's just the way it is.

[338] And I guess there's two forces there really because I think if I was, well, not even, but if I was following you, it'd be for two reasons, right?

[339] For me, on one hand, it's aspiration.

[340] It's, oh my God, look at this amazing, thing, all these amazing things she's achieved.

[341] And I really aspire to be there one day.

[342] But then obviously the relatability comes from the fact that you're talking about how bad your period pains are and this problem with your boyfriend.

[343] And those are things we can all relate to.

[344] And then on the other hand, there's all these wonderful things that we can all aspire to.

[345] Yes.

[346] And I think at the end of the day, it's interesting with social media because a lot of people in your position wouldn't share the aspirational things because they'll care too much about what people might say.

[347] Yeah.

[348] I would actually say the opposite I would say I think a lot of people share the aspirational things but they don't share the low moments when I when I'm watching people's YouTube's I'm seeing so many girls being like my life is just so amazing and I do these amazing things and I'm a vegan and I eat clean and I go to the gym and they don't talk about the low moments and they wonder why their audience isn't engaged you have to be honest and you have to include those things that maybe you don't really want to include it but your audience will appreciate that because that girl is probably also having a crappy day that's watching it.

[349] So she wants to see you also having a crappy day.

[350] So she knows it's okay.

[351] And that's where I think some influencers and some YouTubers, they fall down because they don't, they're not 100 % honest, whereas I really, really am.

[352] And I stand by that.

[353] So yeah.

[354] If you buy something really expensive, though, let's say, you buy something really, really expensive, when you go to post it, is there, is there a feeling of like concern about, it might make some people feel, you know, that struggling might make them feel bad or inadequate in a way yeah i mean it's tricky isn't it it's it's hard to know what you're going to what you post how it's going to affect people like you might think the posting one thing will have no effect on somebody but actually it could be all that person thinks about that day and it's kind of scary it's a massive responsibility because i have super young followers as well and i've got to be careful you know i've been on a bit of like a health journey recently i've got to be so careful talking about weight loss and what i'm eating because you don't know what you're saying it's so impressionable and these young girls they're so again vulnerable and I know when I was watching girls Instagram stories I mean I'm sure I'll talk to you about filler in a bit but I Instagram was the reason I ended up getting all that filler because I was watching these girls stories thinking they have filler so I need to go and get filler so if I'm posting about you know a health journey and I've lost a few pounds I feel great well then young girls are going to go and think well I need to go and lose a few pounds if Molly May has done it so everything you're saying it has to be so clearly thought about because it's, you have no idea how that one tiny story is going to affect that person's day with everything.

[355] Isn't there a lot of things though where you just can't, you can't, there's no way to get it right.

[356] You can't control it.

[357] No, you can't get it right all the time.

[358] I feel like there must be so many things where if you post it, you're going to get back.

[359] Because I experience it a little bit.

[360] People, it's funny with, with, um, with me. I, and I've learned this again from my guests that I've sat here with, I can get away for some reason with a lot more.

[361] Yeah.

[362] So I can post something and I'll typically get like pretty much 100.

[363] a good example actually was when um i'd been in the gym a lot and i'm saying to grace who's in my content team i'm like i'm going to post a topless photo and say like show my gym transformation before and after and grace raises it to me that like a lot of influencers who do that gets like slammed for you know what you're saying you're saying six pack is happy yeah yeah i'm like no one's going to say that in my audience i post it everyone's clapping everyone's like amazing give us your tips but it seems to be like almost a double standard it is For women, maybe.

[364] Creatives and women like you who, if I look at it and think, oh man, you got, it's like a minefield of correctness.

[365] I know, honestly.

[366] But that is another reason why I stay quiet in a lot of things.

[367] I don't, I'm often fearful to speak.

[368] And even on Twitter, I kind of stopped using my Twitter because everything you say, like, you, I remember a few months ago, I went to Italy for a trip.

[369] And I mentioned that I didn't like the food in Italy.

[370] And the way I worded it probably wasn't, I probably could have worded.

[371] better but I was trending on Twitter for four days about how I said I didn't like the food in Italy and I was like literally going through a really hard time I was like I can't deal with this like I've made one comment that people didn't like about the ice cream in Italy and I'm literally trending and I'm getting like death threats because of it and it's a lot it's a lot like it's how I mean I always say like when I don't have like a scandal for a while I think God a scandal's coming soon I'm going to say something wrong soon like it is kind of always on the edge of like what's going to be next like what's happening next So, with all this, you know, when you say this to me, my, like, I've got to be honest, I don't envy that situation.

[372] Because I think one of the forms of, one of the real causes in our society and in the world of mental health issues is feeling like you can't be your true self.

[373] Yeah.

[374] And there are physical forms of imprisonment, putting someone in a jail, and then there are mental forms of imprisonment, which is like stopping them speaking freely about who they are, who they love, what they think and what they feel.

[375] And yet when, in every interview that I've encountered with you, the answer I see is, I'm very, very happy.

[376] How is that all possible for you to live in a world where there is so much concern and so many minds that you could possibly step on and to still be happier?

[377] I know.

[378] I am always saying that I'm happy because I think it'd be selfish for me to say that I'm not.

[379] Like, how could I not be happy?

[380] Like, 17 -year -old me creeps back up then because I'm thinking, like, God, I am happy because this is all I ever wanted.

[381] And yes, every day in my mind, I think, God, I have got these worries and I have got these struggles, but let's just take a step back.

[382] I am happy.

[383] Like, I sort of have to just look at the bigger picture.

[384] I'm healthy.

[385] I have my health.

[386] My families well, I have an incredible manager.

[387] I have an incredible boyfriend.

[388] I live in a beautiful house.

[389] I'm safe.

[390] I'm happy.

[391] Like, I am.

[392] Yeah, I've got all these worries about when am I next going to have a scandal?

[393] When am I next going to say the wrong thing?

[394] But in the bigger picture, like 17 -year -old me, again, could only dream of this shit and I'm living it.

[395] So that's how I look at it.

[396] And that gratitude, you know, it's clearly so important to be centered and grounded amongst all of this chaos, right?

[397] Yes, yeah, 100%.

[398] I am very grounded.

[399] And I think that's one thing that I'm proud of is that everyone that knows me from my life prior to Love Island, they've all said I've never changed.

[400] I've always stayed the same.

[401] Yeah, my life and my circumstances have changed, but me, myself, I'm the same person and I, and I know I am.

[402] I've never become, bogey.

[403] I've never become, like, I've never, you know, I just, I couldn't.

[404] It's not me. I am still that girl from Hertfordshire, but just with a very different life now.

[405] But I've never changed.

[406] Even then since I've met Fran in that two and half years, I'm still the same person that she met on that day when I came out of Love Island.

[407] So, yeah, I stand by that.

[408] and I'm proud that I've stayed the same.

[409] Speaking there about social media and one of the changes you made and you've talked about this publicly is you removed the cosmetic filler from your face, right?

[410] Yeah.

[411] And other things, other sort of changes to your sort of cosmetic appearance.

[412] Can you talk to me first about what it was that made you want to go and get cosmetic filler in your face?

[413] Well, I think...

[414] Well, you're clearly very beautiful.

[415] Oh, thank you.

[416] Well, I was 716 or something.

[417] 17 when I first got filler and 16 if it was I think is actually illegal um I think you have to be 17 legally um but I I went and got lip filler when I was around 16 and it didn't stop for a few years like I kept getting it and I kept getting it and it became around that time was when it had become very normalized filler was it was literally like going to go into the gym like I'm just going to go get a top off of my lip filler it became so normalized which is terrifying and so scary that these things are spoken about on social media like these these um aesthetic pages they're posting all these packages you can get with filler and it's it became really normal so i just i went one day and i just got it and it was like nothing and i didn't tell my mom i just kept it from everyone no one even really noticed but i think on social media as i said before i was seeing all these girls um with filler and with all these things onto our face their faces so i thought well if i want to be successful in that industry if i want to be an influencer and i want to have a large following i'm going to have to get that too like i'm going to need to to do that to my face.

[418] I need jaw filler and cheek filler and lip filler and Botox to look the way these girls do when actually what I realise now is all just editing.

[419] None of them look like that anyway.

[420] But it's scary because it, I wouldn't say I got addicted to it, but by the age of 21, I didn't look like the same person.

[421] I literally looked like a different person.

[422] It was, when I look back of pictures now, I'm terrified of myself.

[423] I'm like, who was that girl?

[424] I don't know what happened.

[425] And it was actually, only until my sister said to me she was like we need to sort this out it was like took her to tell me i was a um a pa in in a club i don't remember where i was and she texted me and she was like i need to talk to you about the filler like it's too much now like it's it's it's enough you need to stop and then i actually sort of i remember going on my front camera and i was looking i was like what she talking about and i actually realized i was like i don't it's not nice this it's my face i literally everyone used to call me quagmire i don't even know quagmire isn't it's like a cartoon character I don't know.

[426] Oh, okay.

[427] Well, people would either say...

[428] Clagmire on the screen.

[429] Yeah, Kragmire.

[430] People used to say, Kragmire, or they said, I looked like an Xbox controller.

[431] Like, my face was that warped.

[432] Like, oh, I got all kinds of things.

[433] But there was this one pivotal moment where I'd gone and I'd got loads of filler and I posted a YouTube video.

[434] And I hadn't let the filler sort of settle and it was really swollen.

[435] And a picture from, a screenshot from that video, it trended on Twitter for weeks.

[436] It was horrendous.

[437] it was utterly horrendous it was like you can insert the picture we'll send it to you it was my face was literally like it was just awful and it was that was a moment for me as well where I was like I think I think things need to change I thought one day I'm actually I'm going to get my lips dissolved in it and it was a process I went and got my lips dissolved and I posted about it on YouTube and I didn't expect the response that I got it was huge and a lot of girls were tweeting and they made me laugh and was like Molly May getting lit filler does not mean that we have, getting her lit filler dissolved, sorry, does not mean that we will have to go and do the same, because obviously they all love their lip filler, which I think is great.

[438] Like, some girls absolutely love it.

[439] And by me getting my filler dissolved did not mean that I, I don't agree with a filler.

[440] I got it at one point.

[441] Like, I obviously loved it.

[442] And some girls, it makes them feel super confident.

[443] And it did for me for a while until I took it too far.

[444] I think it can be a great thing.

[445] It's not for me to sit here and bash it because some girls, they do feel amazing with it.

[446] And that's great.

[447] But for me, the minute I started to sort of reverse my image and, dissolve the filler and dissolve my lips and I actually had full set of composite bonding like veneers on my teeth I had them removed as well I literally took it to the extremes and I just stripped myself back and weirdly I felt the prettiest I'd ever felt once it had all gone and I felt like I'd dropped about five years off my age and it was like it was a really really significant moment for me and I just stripping everything back and I didn't realize how much respect that would get me I didn't do it for respect I did it for myself I didn't do it for anyone else I did it because I knew that I needed to, but from doing it, all these young girls were like, were all these young girls' parents were remanding Fran and saying, thank you so much, like, this is so amazing for us to see.

[448] It's so different.

[449] I actually had some, a mum come up to me when I was visiting Hitchin with my mum.

[450] She came up to me in the street crying her eyes out, saying that she was so grateful to me for doing what I did with my filler because she's so happy that, like, the effect that had on her children, and my mum started crying, and it was all like emotions.

[451] My mum was, when the women walked away, she was like, I'm so proud of you.

[452] And I just didn't realize, like, from me doing that, the effect it would have on so many people.

[453] Your manager Fran told me, she said, when you made that decision to remove the cosmetic filler and the bonding from your teeth, she was getting so many emails.

[454] She couldn't keep up with her inbox from parents saying, expressing their admiration and gratitude because obviously previously those parents and their children had been looking up to certain role models who do do a lot of editing because of the comparison based while we live in.

[455] And to have a role model like yourself who is taking the very, very brave, and Brave's maybe not the right word, but just the very important step to say that I'm going to be a role model that doesn't tamper too much with my face because of the consequences and what that might tell my audience about themselves, when you went on your transition, when you went from being, you know, a little bit too much filler here, maybe in bonded teeth and stuff like that to the O 'Natural Molly that you are now, was there other moments of doubt where you look to yourself and thought, do you know what maybe I'll knit back and yeah well yeah I mean it didn't happen overnight I can't sit here and say like I suddenly just felt incredible like it was a huge change like my I literally I look like a different person with all the filler in and a different person with it out and um there was a moment where I'd just done the cover for cosmopolitan magazine and it was a really big deal to me I was so I remember hugely happy that I'd landed the cover because um it was a dream it's huge my mom used to buy me that magazine when I was younger and And it was, it was, I couldn't believe that I was going to be on the cover, but that was the first time I'd been pictured after I'd had all the filler removed.

[456] And I actually despised the picture so much that I just, I cried about it for days.

[457] Yeah.

[458] Because I didn't get approval of the image.

[459] And I just thought I sort of prayed.

[460] I was like, I really hope I like the image.

[461] And I absolutely hated it.

[462] And it went, it went out and it was fine.

[463] And everyone was telling me how amazing I looked.

[464] And it was kind of sad that after everyone was sort of confirmed that they, they thought I looked nice.

[465] Then I felt better.

[466] That's a bit sad.

[467] Because I think I did it.

[468] until I've, until people started to say that.

[469] And I never really thought I was that girl.

[470] I always sort of thought I don't need people to tell me that I look nice.

[471] Like it, but I think then I did because it was really vulnerable.

[472] Like I just had all this filler removed.

[473] No one had really seen me like that.

[474] I looked really different.

[475] I did.

[476] And I think people noticed it, but people really admired it because it was different.

[477] It was new.

[478] No one had really done that yet.

[479] I wouldn't want to say that I started a trend, but I do feel like I did start a bit of a trend with the sort of dissolving.

[480] And again, I'm proud of that because, yeah, I might have been a bit uneasy about it at first, but now loads of people are doing it, and I love it.

[481] It's like an amazing movement.

[482] And with the brands that you're involved in in the businesses you run, do you now seek out models and influences and creators that are representing that more natural look as well?

[483] I wouldn't even say so, because as I said before, I don't think Phil is a bad thing.

[484] If it's done safely and it's done in a way that makes a girl feel more confident, then that's great.

[485] whatever makes that person feel amazing that's what I like and if a model comes in and we like her and she's got a face full of filler that's not a problem because another girl that's looking at that campaign also might have a face full of filler you know again it's I don't really judge people based on things like that I made a mistake with it once but at one point I loved it and it did make me feel confident so no I think we just like when we look booking models for filtering things we just want to be relatable and we want to sort of have a girl modeling out the fate to hand that that lots of girls can relate to.

[486] That's why we always use multiple models in our campaigns and plus size and we try and sort of catered to everybody.

[487] Imposter syndrome.

[488] When people rise very, very quickly into high places, they often talk about this feeling of imposter syndrome where they, you know, inside them, maybe they're still that girl from hitching, but they're in these like big rooms with these big things talking about big ideas.

[489] Do you ever feel that?

[490] I guess I'm I'm extremely honest when I need to ask questions when I don't understand what the hell's going on like I actually said to Fran I was like I bet Stephen's going to use loads of words that I have no idea what they mean and I was just going to have to sit here and pretend that I have a clue what he's on about when really I don't Has that happened yet?

[491] No But when I was listening to your one with Patricia Bright you said a few words and I was like don't know what that means and I was like he's definitely going to that's going to happen but I'm really honest I'm really transparent when I'll be in finance meetings with Fran and we'll be talking about gross profit and I say can we just rewind I have no idea what we're talking about here and I'm really really transparent with that like I tried to just remember I am 22 they didn't teach me this stuff in school they really didn't and I I'm talking about mortgages and stuff I didn't know what a mortgage was until a few months ago I'll be honest because when we started looking at buying a house I was like so what is a mortgage because I didn't know and I think um that's how I've sort of gotten away from that like imposter syndrome, I just, I, I just ask, I just ask the questions.

[492] I'm not embarrassed.

[493] And I've had to learn a lot really quickly.

[494] I didn't know anything at the start of this process.

[495] I didn't know, I don't think I hadn't enough money to even pay a tax bill before.

[496] I didn't understand.

[497] I was making a thousand pound a month before the show.

[498] So I'd never paid a tax bill like it.

[499] And it was, it was a lot of learning very quickly.

[500] And I've just always asked, I'm not afraid to ask.

[501] And then that's a really important thing.

[502] Don't be afraid to ask if you don't I?

[503] For me, it's so inspiring to hear that answer because I've been in that exact same situation.

[504] I was in boardrooms as well when I was 22 years old and you're sat there.

[505] You're looking around the room and there's people double your age.

[506] And of course, it's easy to feel like you're inadequate or you're an imposter in that room.

[507] But the thing that I always fell back on was this understanding that I'm in that room for a reason.

[508] There's something that I have that those men that are double my age in suits that have gray hair don't have.

[509] And that's my specialty.

[510] That's the reason I'm there.

[511] They have things I don't have.

[512] I have things they don't have.

[513] And I think for me, the thing that's made me feel comfortable in intimidating situations, whether it's Dragon's Den or being in boardrooms out of my depth at a very, very young age, is continually reminding myself that I am there for a reason too.

[514] And there's something that I know.

[515] there's some, in your case, you know, unbelievable creativity and understanding of the customer that has put me there.

[516] And I think what you've realized is incredibly important.

[517] You don't have to speak on things you don't know.

[518] And as a young person in these very intimidating foreign situations like the boardroom, you don't have to pretend you know everything.

[519] You can just wait and have the confidence to speak on the things that you know well, that you know better than everybody.

[520] And I just think that's so incredibly important that when you are in intimidating situations, as a young person in business or in your career, you've got to know that you're there for a reason too.

[521] Yeah.

[522] You're bringing value to that room too.

[523] You don't have to speak on everything, but you are there for a reason.

[524] When I read about your story, when I've watched you over the years, and I've been close to people that you're close to, I could not believe for the life of me when my team told me you were 22.

[525] I was like, yeah, sure.

[526] Like, Googled it myself, and I was like, Wikipedia's wrong as well.

[527] because it doesn't make sense right and it as you say there are so many like fundamental things about business and money and life and finance that must just now be like thrown at you and to be honest they're thrown at everybody right especially when we you know we start thinking about mortgages and stuff in terms of money and finance what are some of the lessons that you've you've had to learn or the advice you would give to people that are listening to make sure that they don't blow all the things that you've had to learn or the advice you would give to people that are listening to their money and end up in jail?

[528] I don't think I'm the, I'll be honest, I don't think I'm there yet myself to give advice.

[529] I'm still learning.

[530] I have, yeah, a large amount of money for someone my age and I'm, I have to sort of rely on people around me to advise me with it.

[531] Like I've just started investing, which has been a huge, interesting new chapter for me. I hadn't got a clue about investing, but I know it's really important.

[532] I knew it's a key thing and I need to do it.

[533] I didn't know where to start.

[534] So I've, I've been learning about that, which has been really interesting.

[535] but I know it is cliche and I know everyone says it but because you don't know these things in school like it's so daunting and my situation is so niche in that I came to a large amount of money so quickly and it was so vulnerable like I had to sort of like get my parents on board with it because I just you trust all these people but it was so scary I'd say it's probably the most daunting thing really like come now and this new world of like I didn't have literally a pot to piss in before and now I'm like dealing with these huge banks and like, it's mental.

[536] And I don't want it.

[537] I wouldn't even give advice because I'm still learning and I'm not afraid to say that.

[538] I'm learning every day with it.

[539] But yeah, it is daunting.

[540] It's a whole new world.

[541] On the, we talked a little bit earlier about, we kind of touched on mental health.

[542] One of the things that I was really inspired by is you, you gave the profits from your, one of your PLT ranges to the charity mind, the mental health charity.

[543] Yeah.

[544] Why did you do that?

[545] Well, it was, It was shortly after Caroline Flack had passed away, which was obviously heartbreaking.

[546] And it was a huge, huge, huge shock.

[547] And myself in PLT, we'd planned this huge launch party and a big launch dinner.

[548] And I was there getting ready for it.

[549] We cancelled it on the night because we just found out the news.

[550] And it was just, it wasn't right.

[551] It just, it didn't feel right.

[552] And the only way it would feel rightly released in the collections if we did donate the profits made to mind at that time.

[553] just it was a really tricky time and I think I'm so proud to to be a part of PLT in a way that they were so on board with it straight away and it was totally my idea and I went to him and I said this is what needs to happen and they were like yeah it wasn't even a hesitation it wasn't like no but we need to make money back no they they totally understood um yeah and I'm blessed to work of PLT so closely because they're just they were amazing at that time was that one of the things on your proverbial mood board that becoming the creative director of of PLT.

[554] Did you ever dream about that?

[555] What was the, and how did that all come about?

[556] Do you know, it was a pretty little thing.

[557] It's, it was crazy because I knew when I started working with them, it was like, I had this feeling that it was going to go bigger than I had anticipated.

[558] We brought out these collections and brought out these edits and it was just growing and growing and my growth was going up and it just wasn't slowing down and I created such a close relationship of PLT and they, we really understood each other.

[559] other.

[560] And it just grew past that point of being an influencer, because I don't really count myself as an influencer anymore.

[561] I know I am theoretically, but it's more than that now.

[562] And I am more of a businesswoman.

[563] And I feel like PLT, it was in the works for a while.

[564] There was conversations about this role.

[565] And I never really spoke about how it happened, but there was conversations about a role.

[566] Creative director was mentioned.

[567] And I was like, that's the only one I want.

[568] I don't want anything else.

[569] I don't want to be head of any other department.

[570] Creative director is my role.

[571] And if not, we'll just carry on doing what we're doing or we'll see.

[572] And Fran worked on it with Emma and they spoke and they spoke.

[573] And it was about six months in discussion.

[574] And then Fran rang me. I was in my car and she was like, we've got it.

[575] You're going to be the creative director of pretty lot thing.

[576] And it was a really like, it was a crazy moment.

[577] I screamed down the phone.

[578] I was like, oh my God.

[579] Like this is wild.

[580] And I was just so excited to tell everybody.

[581] I had to wait a few months.

[582] I knew I was sitting on it for a while.

[583] And then I told everyone and it literally blew up the internet.

[584] I didn't expect it to have like the effect that it did but it was huge literally huge.

[585] It was massive yeah I think it was just no one really expected it I think no one saw it coming I think they probably just thought when I said I had a big announcement they probably like oh it's just another collection she was bringing out a few more pieces of clothes no it was when I said I had the biggest piece of like my biggest achievement yeah I meant it it was my biggest achievement yet like I'm not just an influencer anymore I'm the creative director of pretty little thing like that hasn't still really sunken in yet me. And what does that mean?

[586] So the thing that brands do very well is they like using, you know, influences, creators to kind of sell, you know, we'll do a line with you, we'll do an edit with you.

[587] This is different, right?

[588] Yeah, it's completely different.

[589] Talk to me about how it's different.

[590] Well, I have a huge role within the business now.

[591] I have a huge voice within the business.

[592] And I think what's so amazing is that I am the consumer.

[593] I am that their target market, really, that age range.

[594] I am that consumer.

[595] So to have me in the business, with my views with my guidance like it's really helpful to them it's a fresh pair of eyes i think they really needed that and i i think um because i know the brand so well and i've worked with them i worked with them way before love island i've worked with pelt now for heading on six years they were one of the first businesses one of the first fashion companies that gifted me when i had about 11 000 followers on instagram so i've just we've believed in each other from the very start so it was just such an organic movement for me like just to in that business that and And another funny story is that when I came out of Love Island, I had this day where all these fashion brands, they came forward and they sat down and they offered me all these crazy deals.

[596] I'm not joking, there was probably about 15 of all my dream brands.

[597] They came in and they were like, we'll offer you this, we'll offer you a car, we'll offer you this amount of money.

[598] And PLT didn't actually, it was, Emma, Zoom called me. They were actually the only one that didn't show up on the day, but they were the most important to me because I knew, that I was like, these business meetings with all these other brands are kind of irrelevant because I know I want PLT.

[599] PLT wasn't the highest money offer that came forward.

[600] There were brands that came forward and offered me triple what PLT offered me. But because I love PLT so much and because I believed them wholeheartedly and I knew that me working with them was going to be something the way it is now.

[601] I went with them and it was the best thing I ever did.

[602] And what's the best, what's now you've been in that role for several months?

[603] What's your, what's your, what do you enjoy most?

[604] From Because you've taken a big step from being, you know, doing ranges with them to now being inside the business.

[605] Yeah.

[606] What surprised you?

[607] What have you enjoyed?

[608] Well, I think people wouldn't understand that the creative director, it wasn't just out of the blue.

[609] It came about because I have been, I've always given my input in everything that I've done.

[610] In every collection I've bought out, I've always done more than the average influence.

[611] And I think PLT saw that.

[612] I think they saw, hang on, this girl's actually got something to offer here.

[613] She's got ideas.

[614] On every shoot, I have a large input with location, sets, you know, photographers.

[615] models that are used like it's I've always never just sat back and said yeah that'll do I'll do that I've always had something to say um so I think they they saw that and I think even things have changed so much now since I've come in this role like the collections that I'm bringing out now like they're worked on for a year they're not it's like I mean the one we're bringing out next it's it's been working on we've been working on we've been working it now for about seven months so it's um things are done a lot more seriously they're not rushed they're really thought through um we work I don't know how much I can speak about it but we're working on a London Fashion Week show, which has been in the works now again for about six months.

[616] It's a lot of work.

[617] And it's interesting as well.

[618] Again, I'll sit here and I'll say, I'll be honest.

[619] It's a business role and I'm learning.

[620] I'm not, I don't know everything about business, you know.

[621] And I got a lot of backlash when I came forward saying I was a new creative director.

[622] People were saying, what do you know about being a creative director?

[623] You've never been to university.

[624] But it's not so much that I go in and I talk about numbers and I talk about the nitty gritty of like that I'm more there.

[625] to give my perspective on how things should be done.

[626] I'm there to go into the studios and say, I think this needs to be changed.

[627] I think this, you know, I'm there to be that fresh set of eyes and to be the consumer giving their voice.

[628] That's sort of how it works.

[629] And Umar, you know, the founder and CEO of pretty little thing.

[630] He himself started in that role when he didn't know anything about fashion other than, you know, he's got links with his family.

[631] But that was his first real chance.

[632] And I've worked with him as well.

[633] And one of the things he's always said to me is he likes bringing people in that don't have experience.

[634] I've sat in his office for many, many years and he said, we need more 16 -year -olds in here.

[635] Yeah.

[636] And what he's saying is, you've said, is he wants fresh eyes, he wants a fresh perspective, he wants kids that understand TikTok.

[637] Yes.

[638] And that's probably why they've done so well and been so relevant.

[639] You're so right.

[640] You're so right.

[641] When you go into the PLT office, it's all young girls working in there.

[642] All different kinds of girls, but all young.

[643] And it's really interesting because there's like two sides to the office.

[644] You've got like the tech side, which are like all the guys.

[645] working around on the computers like trying to make sure the website doesn't crash when they have a massive sale then you have like the side of things where it's like the young girls doing the TikToks doing the tweets doing the Instagram it's huge it's absolutely it's like a it's like an empire PLT every time I go in that head office I'm like blown away and and I think if I didn't do what I did now I'd want to work for PLT in a different way like I'd want to work in their social media because it's an incredible job all the girls at work there are so lucky on the other side of the fence I actually have a very unique perspective because I got to see I was in the car with the CEO of PLT on the day when he was trying so, so hard to make sure you join the brand.

[646] And I've never seen him so frantic and so, and, you know, he was not going to lose the opportunity to work with you.

[647] So I've never seen him like that, actually, in all the years.

[648] He's a very ambitious, relentless, very driven guy that, you know, knows what he wants and is willing to work to get it.

[649] But that day in that car, he was like, we need her.

[650] He was like, we need her.

[651] I can't let her go anywhere else.

[652] He must have just seen something.

[653] I don't know.

[654] Maybe he just...

[655] He told me. You represent, as you've said, you represent the customer.

[656] Yeah.

[657] You know the customer.

[658] You are the customer.

[659] I am, yeah.

[660] And for him, it was like the stars had aligned.

[661] And there wasn't another human being on earth that was more perfect for the brand than you.

[662] And it's funny to hear from your perspective because you felt the same way on the other side.

[663] So...

[664] Yeah.

[665] It matched up quite nice, do I think.

[666] It matched up perfectly.

[667] Life, you know, life is very unpredictable.

[668] and everything has a cost.

[669] We've talked a lot about that today, even though the high points have a cost.

[670] And one of the costs of your meteoric rise and your success and your openness came out in the papers quite recently when someone broke into your home.

[671] Yeah.

[672] One of the most unthinkable, traumatic things from a psychological perspective because that is your safe place, it's your happy place.

[673] Yeah.

[674] Well, especially the home that we were living in.

[675] Um, it was, I spoke about it in a YouTube briefly, really briefly, because again, I'm always too scared to say too much.

[676] But it, that home for me was, I've had a lot of homes and it, nothing quite was like that place for me. It was just as, it wasn't a huge apartment.

[677] It was just a normal apartment, um, in a really nice area.

[678] And ironically, I, I just always felt so safe there.

[679] Every time I went in and I locked the, the front door and I run myself a bath.

[680] It was like my switch off zone.

[681] It was like where I felt like I could just be that 22 -year -old normal girl with a few thousand followers on Instagram.

[682] Like I felt like I just, it was my haven.

[683] So I think out of what happened with the burglary, I think that's been the hardest thing because that was snatched away from us.

[684] It wasn't, there wasn't the materialistic things that were taken.

[685] It wasn't all the possessions that were gone.

[686] It wasn't, you know, them violating our space and it was ransacked.

[687] It wasn't any of that.

[688] It was the fact that I knew the second we found out we were in a meeting in London.

[689] and we got the call and I knew the minute I found out that we were going to have to leave and I just, it was, that was the most heartbreaking thing for me because to be forced out of your home that you love so much and that you weren't ready to leave any time soon, it was like, it was heartbreaking, it was awful.

[690] So there's a lot about what home is, it's not really a place, I guess it's a set of emotions, right?

[691] 100%.

[692] And once those emotions are tampered with and once they're spoiled, it's gone.

[693] Like it's not, it's just bricks and more, then it's not, it isn't it's not a special place anymore and i think yeah out of everything that happened that's been what i've been finding hard to deal with because we um when i drive past it and stuff it's it's heartbreaking it's like god that's how quickly can things change like things can change in such a like a few hours everything got changed like i was in a meeting about something really exciting in london next thing you know your house has been ransacked everything's been taken you need to come home right away and i just didn't know what to expect i just expected the worst and it was a good job that I did because it, it was bad, everything, everything gone.

[694] How did Tommy react?

[695] Well, it was, it's tricky because I'll be honest, Tommy, he's different with how he spends his money.

[696] He doesn't really buy things.

[697] He's a bit of, the way he's been raised, he's quite shrewd with his, he's just, he's, we're very different.

[698] And he reacted differently to me. I was much more like, trying to sort everything out, you know, insurance and making sure we're okay and Tom is just like sort of it'll be fine it'll be fine he's very laid back it's very hard to explain how he is but we're like polar opposites but that's why we work but yeah I mean it was just different and is this you've talked about how this has changed your desire and willingness to be as open yeah which I find I found to be quite well I had no yeah I had no choice and I mentioned that like on my social media I said like I don't want to change the way I live.

[699] I don't want to change the way I talk to you guys.

[700] That's what I love doing.

[701] I love sharing everything.

[702] But if it's going to compromise my safety, I can't.

[703] I can't.

[704] It's not fair.

[705] Like, it's really hard.

[706] And I'm now trying to work on this new balance of sharing, but not oversharing so that I make me and Tommy not safe anymore.

[707] And it's finding this new way of living and having close protection security now and moving and making sure not even my nail tech so much as I can.

[708] comes to my house because I can't have anybody knowing where I live now.

[709] It's like even deliveroo, no, can't.

[710] It's not possible.

[711] Like it's just not safe because it takes one wrong person to know where you live.

[712] And I think I've, do you know what?

[713] I will say that it is not a positive thing what happened, but maybe it needed to happen in order to make me learn how I need to be now.

[714] I can't just be that normal girl that is blasé and post everything on our socials.

[715] It's not.

[716] I need to do better to protect myself and Tommy.

[717] Unfortunately, it's sad, but it's just the way it's got to be now and everything's got to change.

[718] Yeah.

[719] That is sad, isn't it?

[720] It is sad, it is.

[721] But I think people understand.

[722] I see a lot of tweets now being like, because I've posted, I mean, literally a smidgens of where we live now.

[723] Like, I mean, like, a cushion.

[724] And everyone's, like, saying, I'm so gut, we're not going to get a house tour.

[725] And I'd absolutely love to give a house tour because this house is incredible.

[726] And I don't want to show it off.

[727] but I want to show my followers and be like, this is where we're living now.

[728] This is the new kitchen.

[729] This is the new bedroom, you know.

[730] Like, that's me. I'm an oversharer.

[731] But now I'm taking videos and I'm like, oh, is that too much?

[732] Am I showing too much there?

[733] Like the newspaper's going to find out from right move, which house that is.

[734] You know, I'm thinking that way now.

[735] And it's sad at 22 years old that you have to think that way.

[736] But it's the pros and cons with this new life that I'm living.

[737] Do you feel safe in your new home?

[738] Yeah.

[739] You do?

[740] Yeah, we're really lucky in that.

[741] As I said, taught us how we need to be now and I actually have clothes protection security now and I'm trying to get used to that it's 24 24 7 and I don't know how long or if forever or whatever but I'm it's just mad like that we're having to put these precautions in place now um I don't really wear my jewelry anymore what I have left of it I'm I'm not wearing it because I just it made me realise that it just doesn't really matter people are just so cruel and and and they are jealous that these things, it's better off just to, I don't know.

[742] I just think it changed things for me. It took that superficialness away.

[743] It just made me realise actually these things aren't important.

[744] Your health and your happiness and your safety.

[745] Safety is key.

[746] I'm spending a fortune now on security, but really there's no price on feeling safe at all because I'd rather spend money on security than spend it on a handbag.

[747] Because what makes you feel better now?

[748] The security, of course, because I can go down the street and know I'm safe.

[749] I don't know.

[750] It's, it's, it's, changed a lot.

[751] Are there things that you miss from your old life?

[752] Old life as in, as in, you know, before the, before all the paparazzi's in the Caribbean or wherever it was and...

[753] No, I wouldn't say so, you know.

[754] I love my life now.

[755] I literally, I pinch myself every day that this is the life I live.

[756] And yeah, like things like the burglary happen and it's shit and it's scary and I have bad days, but I'm so blessed to live this life.

[757] Like I pinch myself every day that I wake up and I'd never want to go back to my old life that terrifies me because obviously as I told you at the start that ordinary life that I was living before I never wanted that I want what I had now and I'm working on achieving so if you were to to leave your house and just walk through a mall or down the street now what's that experience like it's different it's I never really talk about that because it sounds big head of me you're like you do get stopped but it's it's mental and it's crazy and like it will never feel real especially when I go out of Tommy obviously he's tall everyone spots Tommy and he has a really different audience to me so it's like when walking through like a shopping centre his audience is in there and my audience is in there so it's like a huge amount of people and obviously our combined following when we go out it's heading on 10 million people that's a lot of people so it's a lot of people that know who you are and want to grab pictures and It's amazing.

[758] It is amazing.

[759] And I, one thing I'll always say is that I never, ever, ever, in my whole career, ever said no to a picture because I just, I like it.

[760] It's fun.

[761] It's nice that people, like, want to take a picture of you.

[762] Like, what an honour, like that someone wants to take a picture of me. Like, that will never feel real.

[763] But is then, I went out with, my mate Liam Payne from one direction.

[764] And obviously, I've experienced.

[765] I met him before, you know.

[766] Oh, really?

[767] Yeah.

[768] On a plane.

[769] We were flying back from Vegas together at the same time.

[770] He was so lovely.

[771] to me and Tommy and has always stayed in contact with Tommy since and messages him and says I hope you well brother and I really didn't expect that from him yeah he's a sweet he's a really sweet guy under there you know I say under there I mean just underneath all of the like the fame and the public image and the boy band stuff he's this really sweet soul it's cool yeah my I went out with him a couple of times in Manchester for the foot we did a couple of parties together for the euros just getting our close friends together and um sit in a restaurant in the Ivy in Manchester one person five you know clocks that it's Lou and Pain comes over can we have a photo he's like sure another and then they go back to their table and tell their table then there's another person yeah and then the dinner is actually a meet and greet and I'm looking at this thinking because like I'm like no I'm not famous at all but like I've got like dragons den is dropping in January and things like that so I'm thinking I don't want that in my fucking life like yeah that is too much for me and how do you find how do you find those moments where you can enjoy yourself in public without it becoming a Molly may meet and greet.

[772] Or do you just choose to go to other places?

[773] I just choose not to go out.

[774] I'll be honest.

[775] And I think sometimes it has to take France to say to me, going to the Trappard Center on a Saturday afternoon in Manchester is not a smart idea, as much as I would like to.

[776] Even like the Christmas market is just open in Manchester.

[777] We were going to go the other night.

[778] We were like, no, it's a bad idea.

[779] Like, it sounds like you're being bigheaded when you say it, but you just, I mean, someone come out with me and see, like it's not, it's not like a normal experience.

[780] It's you have to take security.

[781] You have to, it's not like a just quick nipping out.

[782] It sounds like you've got a baby.

[783] It sounds like you're trying to get a baby ready.

[784] You're not just lipping out.

[785] It's a lot to think about.

[786] What's it like being a woman in business, right?

[787] Because there's, you know, especially when you're a woman that's come from, you know, built this big Instagram following and it's been on a TV show.

[788] There's so much like stigma, stereotyping and assumptions being made, right?

[789] But even outside of your role as creative director of PLT, you are a businesswoman at your very, at the core of it.

[790] Yeah.

[791] You're dealing with multiple brands across multiple deals.

[792] and you've got your own companies.

[793] What is it like being a woman in business at 22?

[794] It's hard.

[795] I mean, it's confusing and it's hard.

[796] It's amazing, obviously.

[797] But as I said, like, I am learning.

[798] So it's a little bit scary at times.

[799] You do feel a little bit, like, overwhelmed.

[800] And when you're in meetings and you don't want to look like you don't know what's going on, you don't want to look vulnerable.

[801] You just have to sort of come across as this woman that you do, have all your shit you all have your ducks in a row you know what's going on and um by sort of like pretending that i do i feel like i've sort of become that i've sort of like embodied someone that does know what's going on because i've had to learn it so quickly and sort of someone's pretend that i've now embodied that person that i when i'm in a meeting i can hold my own and i can sit there and say yeah i know what's going on i want to do this this isn't that hasn't come overnight um as i said i am so young and it's such a quick turnaround like two years ago i was in a manchester was in Manchester and living by myself, going to the gym, taking a few pictures, going to Wagamomahs on a weekend, like it.

[802] And now, I'm in these huge meetings with huge people about really important subjects.

[803] And it's like, God, it's, it's hard sometimes.

[804] But I like it.

[805] It's interesting.

[806] It's different.

[807] Every day in my life is so different.

[808] And it's a bit of a challenge each day.

[809] It's like, even today, like this, this podcast, I felt honored that you even asked me to do it because it's like, I'd listen to the people that you'd done them with.

[810] And I, you sort of, sometimes think, God, like, I'm not the same as them.

[811] But then you sort of realize, oh, maybe I am, you know?

[812] Like the likes of Patricia Bright and Jacqueline Gold, like you look up to people like that.

[813] And then suddenly you're being asked to do the same things as them.

[814] And it's like, how has that happened?

[815] Like, I don't know if it will ever feel real, things like that.

[816] Patricia Bright, especially is someone I've always looked up to.

[817] And I actually film, they've been working with Patricia a few times now.

[818] And that was really huge for me because she was like my woman.

[819] She was like my goals.

[820] Yeah, she was the woman on YouTube And I aspired to just be just like her She's just everything I wanted to be She was so successful, so business -minded But also so relatable and so hilarious And I loved everything that she was about And then she asked me to do a video with her after love And I was like, no, this is just not happening And then you try and act cool And you try and act like This is just the normal But it's not, it's not And it's sometimes okay to sit there and be like Oh God, I cannot believe this is happening Like even today like when Fran was talking to me about doing this of you and it's just like these things just I don't know they don't ever really feel real what do your parents think about your life they must be looking at and thinking what yeah I think yeah I think it is crazy like when they see me doing my pretty little thing adverts on TV like how does that ever feel normal and they're just they're just really really proud they're just my parents are divorced now um so it's dealing with my dad and dealing with my mom is like two separate completely different things but they're both so they're both so they're both so proud of me and it's just, I don't think anyone could really have expected this.

[821] Do you sometimes see them or feel them trying to work out what they did to cause you to, like, trying to connect the dots back to like, what the, like, in hindsight.

[822] Maybe.

[823] What did we do?

[824] Like, what did you feed her?

[825] Like, yeah, I don't know, but I don't think that, I think obviously you're a product of your environment and how you grow up and how you're raised is a huge part of who you become.

[826] But at the same time, I wouldn't, like, no disrespect to my parents.

[827] They're incredible.

[828] But I don't think anything they've done made.

[829] me do what I've done now.

[830] Does that make sense?

[831] Everything I've done in the last two years is down to me and down to Fran.

[832] It's us two together.

[833] Like we've done this.

[834] And like my parents, yeah, they raised me and they made me into a polite and nice person.

[835] But they're not responsive.

[836] Do you get what I'm saying?

[837] Like they're not, I don't know how you feel about that, but you probably don't feel like your parents are the reason that you've been so successful.

[838] Or maybe you do.

[839] I don't know.

[840] Well, it's funny because with parents, like we, I'm, I'm the youngest of four.

[841] Oh, are you?

[842] And we're all completely different.

[843] So it would be pretty dumb to say that there was a ton of intention that went in from my parents.

[844] They were thinking, we'll raise one entrepreneur, one lawyer.

[845] It's just they do their best.

[846] Yeah.

[847] And it's like rolling the dice.

[848] Yeah.

[849] And as you've said from your family, your sisters in the army, you're, you know, this mega star businesswoman and a creator.

[850] So you never really know what's going to happen.

[851] And it'll be the same someday when I have kids and when you have kids, I'm sure.

[852] It's kind of a rolling of the dice.

[853] Yeah.

[854] Look at the draw.

[855] Speaking of kids, speaking of relationships, Tommy.

[856] One of the things I, you know, when people leave Love Island, you kind of look at it and you think, these are just gimmick relationships, right?

[857] Yeah.

[858] We think that they're in it for the money.

[859] They're not going to last for five days.

[860] And then the minute they live Love Island, the relationship's over after they've done all like the deals and stuff together.

[861] Yeah.

[862] And everyone's like, yeah.

[863] Yeah.

[864] Yeah.

[865] With you and Tommy, again, you've been an anomaly.

[866] Yeah, we have.

[867] Because you're still together.

[868] Years and years and years after the show.

[869] And from everything I've read, you have a really solid relationship.

[870] Tell me about that and I guess you didn't expect that, right?

[871] Yeah, I mean, I think as I mentioned briefly before, because I went on the show, so not expecting to find love and I just went on for a bit of a, we'll just see what happens, potentially come out with a million followers, we'll see.

[872] I came out the only person having fallen in love.

[873] Me and Tommy were the only couple that year that are still together.

[874] And that were really together in the show.

[875] Every other couple broke up a couple of weeks after.

[876] We were the only people that actually found each other properly.

[877] and it's been like nearly three years now and it's just been a whirlwind and I think what's been so incredible is that both our lives have changed together at the same time and we've grown together and experienced it all with one another and I think having him to lean on through all these ups and definitely lows he's been there for me has been so amazing because it would have been lonely doing it alone I think like you know after me and Fran have spoken all day and then going back to that apartment alone when you're living this new world in navigating all this new things that it would have been a bit sad to not experience it with someone so we're really blessed to have had each other through this whole thing and is it is it at times quite a long distance relationship because if he's away fighting in or training in the US yeah or you know he's with Tyson doing some training which I saw recently is it is it a bit of a long distance relationship at times and how do you manage that we don't see each other for weeks on end at the moment like weeks on end and we've become really good at the long distance thing I don't know like I think we're just one thing that I find so key and our relationship and it's the most important thing I think in any relationship is trust.

[878] We have that complete and utter trust in one another.

[879] And I think in a relationship that is literally all you need to survive.

[880] If you've got that trust, everything else just falls into place because he can literally go away for weeks on end and there's not a doubt in my mind that if he was to be around a load of girls, I could sleep peacefully at night knowing that he's just, he's for me and I'm for him and that's that.

[881] When you've got that, I just think, I don't know why I'm giving a relationship advice here, but I do think like that is the key.

[882] That is literally the key.

[883] You've got trust.

[884] You've got everything.

[885] And relationships require work, right?

[886] We had a guest on the other day and he said something which I actually, makes you spend my head a little bit.

[887] He said, you know, in a relationship there is, the relationship and there is love.

[888] You only have to work on one of them, which means like, you know what I mean?

[889] The relationship is like a job in the sense that you've got to like invest in it, nurture it, commit to it.

[890] Whereas the love is going to be there and you can see it because some people have loads of love and a crap relationship.

[891] Yeah, that's true.

[892] So what work do you do with Tommy on the relationship to make sure that you are, yeah, like working on it actively to protect it?

[893] I never pictured it like that.

[894] I guess you do work in a relationship.

[895] It is like a bit of a full -time job that never ends.

[896] It just comes naturally.

[897] I think when you're with the right person, it does just all fall into place.

[898] And I don't know, with it's weird with him.

[899] Like we know that we're going to be together forever and we're just so excited for all the future holds for us.

[900] All we ever talk about is kids and like marriage and with.

[901] I'm so excited.

[902] Like I'm doing all these amazing things, but I also have that to look forward to.

[903] And I don't see our relationship as a job like your other person said.

[904] I don't.

[905] I just see it as a part of my life and it's just there.

[906] And I'm so blessed that it just works so well.

[907] We never have any problems.

[908] We're really lucky.

[909] Obviously, we're not going to sit and say, we don't argue like cat and dog.

[910] We definitely do.

[911] He drives me crazy.

[912] And I do feel like I'm a bit of his manager sometimes.

[913] The way Fran is for me, I am for him.

[914] It's like passed down.

[915] Fran does it for me. I do it for him.

[916] just looks after himself um but yeah i don't know i feel like it we've just got something good going on it really works as we look ahead then at your future you're very ambitious you're always asking that question what's next what's next what's next you've made that you know that mood board that planning session with fran recently you know in the previous couple of months as to what the next big goals are what are they big goals and ambitions well specifically i wouldn't i'd always try and keep things under wraps a little bit because I've spoken to France she said you can tell me everything oh not sure if that's true um well in all aspects of my life I'm working on different things pretty little thing and me where it's as I said 24 -7 it's a constant thing and we're working on London Fashion Week is next and that I'm not going to say too much because I do really want to keep it mainly a secret but it's going to be huge like the biggest thing maybe PRT is maybe ever done um so that's going to be huge we're working on that then obviously I I've got fields by Molly May, which is my own fate town business, which is growing rapidly.

[917] And when I spoke about in this podcast, a lot about learning the business side of things, that's what I'm relating it to is my business.

[918] When I go into these meetings with these people, you know, like wholesalers that want to take on the product and sell it on their websites.

[919] And it's just interesting to learn.

[920] And I'm just looking forward to learning more.

[921] Like, as I said, I'm not shy to sit here and say that I've got so much more to learn.

[922] I'm not like the likes of Jacqueline Gold and the Patricia Bytes that sit.

[923] here and they've got a few years on me and they've learned all this stuff and they do come across like these strong powerful business women and I'm I aspire to be like that and I'm heading there and I'd love to revisit this in a few years when I'm there and can use all those big words like net gross profit or that shite that I don't know how to you.

[924] It's really interesting with you because I actually think you have you've clearly demonstrated the thing that will get you there which is that humility of like admitting that there's a lot of things you don't know and I think when speaking as someone that was once a very young entrepreneur as well at 22 years old, I don't know anything about anything because you're right.

[925] No one tells you business stuff in net gross profit margins in school.

[926] That makes me feel better.

[927] No, but the most important, like, key component I think in entrepreneurs is being like, there are so many things I don't know and I'm not going to pretend I don't because, as you said, and one of the things that really actually inspired me when you said it was, listen, if I don't know something, I just ask it.

[928] That's the, for me, the mindset of someone who's going to in the future know a lot of Yeah, I hope so, yeah.

[929] So tell me more about the future then.

[930] What else has got going on?

[931] You've got your brand, the tan business, you've got loads of stuff happening with your creative director role at PLT.

[932] Yeah.

[933] Well, obviously, my socials, I'm growing 25 ,000 a day on average.

[934] It's not stopping.

[935] And it's strange to me. Like, when I came out of the show, I never anticipated the growth just, it just doesn't stop.

[936] Like, and I could even disappear for a few weeks.

[937] And it doesn't stop.

[938] And I don't know why.

[939] I think it's just people, they do find me so relatable.

[940] And I'm just, I'm excited to see with, like, what happens as I grow.

[941] Like, where is it going to stop?

[942] You know, and I say every million I hit, I'm like, well, I want the next million now.

[943] So now I'm working towards seven million.

[944] Even though when I said I hit six million, that would be enough.

[945] I was like, six million.

[946] Wow, that would be amazing.

[947] And I'm like, no, seven millions next.

[948] That'll be enough.

[949] And then it won't be.

[950] Then I'll be working towards 10.

[951] Does focus not become a problem when you know now, because of having, your platform is you could pretty much go after any goal or ambition you have with your manager fran yeah so how like you there's there is a risk of spreading yourself too thin right i guess so but there is still there are still goals that are a little bit like for everybody there's things that are a little bit out of reach and i like reaching for those things because it's you know you know working with like really really high -end fashion brands you know we've not tapped into that yet because oh here we go tell me well we don't know yet but it's just interesting to think about the different types of brands that I can work with.

[952] You know, I'm working more on like the high street budget right now.

[953] And then, you know, in years to come, who's to say?

[954] Well, that's going to, you know, you just don't know.

[955] And I think with my following growing so rapidly, where is it going to end up?

[956] We just don't know.

[957] But that's what's so exciting about it.

[958] Like, it's just every day is a new chapter.

[959] I know it sounds so cringy, but it is.

[960] Every day is so different.

[961] Well, yeah, my next, my main goal, has been my main goal for the last two years.

[962] I'm just desperate to own a house.

[963] I still don't own a house.

[964] I still don't own a house yet.

[965] But it's not because I can't or I don't want to.

[966] It's because I've not found the right house yet.

[967] And I'm so particular and picky with what house I want.

[968] It's come close a few times to like I've got my mortgage and principal and it's been all really exciting and then it's no. But yeah, that's my next goal is getting on the property ladder and maybe building a house.

[969] We don't know.

[970] There's loads of exciting things with that and I'm still trying to learn again, mortgages and all that interesting stuff.

[971] It's stamp duty.

[972] what the hell is that and why on earth does that exist may I ask because there's a lot of money but yeah there's loads of things that you don't realize because I looked at this house and I really really liked it and I was like yeah you know the stamp duty and that's going to be X hundred thousand and I was like what then I have a builder come around and look all the work that I want doing to and it was like yeah so that's going to be about 900 ,000 just for the work you want doing and I was like this is just stupid I was like but this is the thing like I'm in a really financially um blessed situation so how is any normal 22 year old on a normal income ever going to get on the property ladder i don't understand that that's fascinating to me how's anybody ever going ever going to get on the property ladder with the way it's going it's wild isn't it so this is the this is the actual diary of a seer oh wow this is the famous diary where it all began and every guest that comes on the podcast um when they leave they write a question for um the guest that's coming up oh right So you actually won't know who's written this question for you.

[973] And I guess it wouldn't be like, it wasn't your reason one Patrice, Chevro.

[974] It wouldn't be that, would it?

[975] Because we've had a couple since then.

[976] Because they probably come out in.

[977] Yeah, exactly.

[978] So we've had, you know, Jimmy Carl came out.

[979] We've had some very big guests recently.

[980] And you'll also be writing a question in this book for our next guest.

[981] Okay.

[982] So the question in the Diary of a CEO for you this week from our previous guest was, if you had to give all of your money to one organization tomorrow morning, what organization would it be and why?

[983] I mean, there's so many charities, like, and so many things that come to mind, it's almost like I can't even think of one.

[984] But one thing I didn't speak about in this podcast is that I am a massive, I always give money to homeless people, always.

[985] I cannot keep cash in my wallet because I will literally just dish them out like fun coupons.

[986] I can't, I just have to, when I see anybody on the street, I give my money away instantly because I cannot fathom how anybody can end up in that situation of not having a home it literally breaks my heart so I'd probably I'd probably just find someone on the street and give it all to them yeah I honestly would or give it to a homeless organisation or something like that because it is a hard question but that's something that I feel really passionate about and as I said I just I have to stop putting cash in my wallet because I just yeah yeah the minute I get out of the cash point it's gone to someone on the street which I like doing.

[987] I enjoy doing that.

[988] It's, I don't know, it's a really hard question.

[989] It is.

[990] Like, I don't, I would have to probably, well, because you're right, right?

[991] So it's, it has, it's a really considered thing.

[992] My question's going to be like, what you have for your dinner tomorrow?

[993] No, yeah.

[994] I, yeah.

[995] I would, I would, I would probably do the same as what you did there, which is, like, what causes, what, what, what hurts my heart and what, what problem would I like to solve if I was, like, either vanishing off the earth tomorrow or just having to donate.

[996] everything and yeah i would people that don't have stuff yeah so i'd probably sell all my assets and give it to i don't know one of these organizations that helps people that don't have stuff like which is pretty much what you said there so makes a lot of sense if you if you could speak to molly may um from hitching now based on everything you've been through and everything you've learned what what kind of things would you tell her about warner about advisor on looking back that's a good question.

[997] I think without repeating myself of what I've said before in the past, I do wish I could tell her to slow down a little bit with rushing things.

[998] And even now it's something that I'm trying to work on at 22.

[999] I don't want to get to 25 and not have anything to look forward to when I'm 30 because I've done everything already.

[1000] You know, have the best car I can drive and have the best house.

[1001] I want to slow things down and I want to work on enjoying where I'm at because it's not healthy to always always want more because you've got to be grateful for where you're at and the things you've achieved.

[1002] But Fran's a really good person of that because she grounds me like it's a really superficial example but I'll use it anyway.

[1003] I passed my driving test a few months ago and the only car I won it was a G wagon.

[1004] I was like, I'm getting a G wagon.

[1005] Fran was like, no you you know.

[1006] I was like, why not?

[1007] She was like, yeah, you can get a G wagon but what have you got to look, what have you got to look forward to when you hit 25?

[1008] Like, she was like, get something a little bit you know underneath that and then you can look forward to it when it comes and I was like, no, No, but then I thought actually you're right.

[1009] I don't need to just always go for the biggest thing.

[1010] Like, work towards these things, have things to look forward to because I'm only 22.

[1011] Like, I'm so young and I've got so much to work on and look forward to.

[1012] And I don't want to rush things.

[1013] And I would tell my younger self, slow down.

[1014] Slow down on the filler.

[1015] Slow down on moving to Manchester, maybe when you couldn't afford it.

[1016] Slow down on worrying about trying to get Instagram followers.

[1017] And it's just everything will come, you know, when it's meant to.

[1018] And do you think you are, you feel like you, Going back to one of the questions I spoke about earlier, do you feel like you are enough now?

[1019] Like you've achieved enough and you've done enough and to be happy, you know, do you feel like you're enough?

[1020] Oh, it's a really, really good question.

[1021] I honestly, I'm going to say no because then it just contradicts everything I've said in this podcast if I say yes.

[1022] But no, I would say no, because if Fran or someone told me today that this was the last day of me working and I'll go back to Manchester now and I sit in my house and have babies and get married and I went work another day.

[1023] I'd calm myself to sleep and I would not be happy because I'm nowhere, as I said, I'm nowhere near done.

[1024] This is just the start.

[1025] So no, like I'm not, I am enough.

[1026] Me, I am enough.

[1027] But the work I've done isn't enough yet.

[1028] I've got so much more to do.

[1029] Will it ever be?

[1030] I don't know.

[1031] Maybe not.

[1032] Maybe if we ever revisit this and I've got more followers and more money and a better house or whatever I'll still be saying it's not enough.

[1033] I probably will be.

[1034] But maybe I need that.

[1035] Maybe that's like the recipe to say.

[1036] making me the way I am and making me different to the other love Islanders and the other influences, maybe it is because I'm hungry and I always want more.

[1037] So maybe I don't need to get rid of that.

[1038] Maybe I'll just stick with that mindset because it works clearly.

[1039] I completely agree.

[1040] And it's been incredibly inspiring and insightful talking to you because you know, you're, I still can't believe you're 22 years old because, you know, at 22 years old, I wasn't in the rooms that you're in now and I wasn't engaged in the conversations.

[1041] I hadn't built businesses and, you know, the role at PLT as creative director, I know how demanding that that will be and how particular and cautious Umar would have been in picking you.

[1042] He wouldn't have done it as a token thing.

[1043] No. And I've actually spoken to the team at PLT.

[1044] I've actually worked with them for about seven years.

[1045] Yeah.

[1046] And we're through my business and they say that you are heavily, heavily involved during the office and you are helping to build and shape what that brand is.

[1047] Yeah.

[1048] It's remarkable that you can do all of that and run all of your other businesses and, you know, keep up with your personal life as well all at the age of 22.

[1049] There's a real mature, wise head on your shoulders and it's really fascinating to watch how that's going to play out for you over the coming years.

[1050] And I, you're a force, right?

[1051] So I can't think of anything getting in your way.

[1052] Thank you so much.

[1053] Thank you for your honesty.

[1054] You're doing a real service to the world and being yourself.

[1055] And I know how, to be honest, I don't know, because I have people hold me to a, they don't hold me to the same standard as they hold you, but you're doing a real service, I think, to a younger generation by being a relatable role model, one that is incredibly real, honest, open and, yeah, an all -round nice person.

[1056] Thank you.

[1057] Thanks for having this conversation with me today because, yeah, I've been, I've watched your career and your rise with total fascination and I would bet on you for the future, so you're a formidable businesswoman in person.

[1058] Thank you so much.

[1059] Thank you for having me. Thanks for me. Very grateful to be on the podcast.