The Taxi Driver's Plight

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro.

[1] This is the Daily.

[2] Today, a New York City taxi driver took his own life.

[3] His family blames Uber.

[4] It's the fourth such suicide in five months.

[5] It's Wednesday, May 2nd.

[6] You know which corner?

[7] Ah, there he is.

[8] Okay.

[9] Hold on, hold on, don't die.

[10] Hey.

[11] They told me to move because it's a hotel.

[12] Okay, let's get in.

[13] Nikolai Hent has been a New York City taxi driver for the past 30 years.

[14] Nikolai, yes.

[15] Thank you for letting us into your cab.

[16] Why not?

[17] So I'm Michael Barbaro.

[18] I'm the host of the Daily.

[19] Okay.

[20] So you want me to move?

[21] What do you want me to stay?

[22] Yeah, I thought we might go where you and drivers that you know would go around this time of day, or are they all in their car?

[23] Is there a place that you...

[24] This time of the day, most of them will be in their car.

[25] Okay.

[26] Because it's 3 o 'clock and, you know, in my case, everything I have to eat is here in this lunch box.

[27] Really?

[28] It's my breakfast, my lunch, my dinner.

[29] Is that corn on the cob?

[30] This is a sandwich my wife makes for me every day.

[31] This is a corn.

[32] This is some mellow and cantaloupe.

[33] Green tea, a water, a banana, strawberry, grapes and two apples.

[34] That is a beautiful...

[35] lunch slash dinner slash everything what kind of sandwich is it it's some kind of salami does she prepare that for you every day every morning every morning yeah she wakes wakes up around 8 a .m or 8 tori and you know by 10 tori I have to be done to go to work six days a week you know today I log on it I think was 121 and I'll be at home probably if things goes well midnight.

[36] It's a long day.

[37] Can I ask you, how did you start driving a taxi?

[38] What's the story?

[39] In 1988, I moved from Dallas, Texas, into New York City.

[40] I look around and I rent an apartment in Ridgewood, 587, on the door avenue.

[41] In Queens?

[42] In Queens.

[43] So how did it start?

[44] What were the first couple of days like behind the wheel of a taxi?

[45] First day when I start driving, I rent, you know, a Dutch Diplomat.

[46] And I I remember first day was a Saturday when I started.

[47] I picked up the car and first day I had an accident.

[48] You had an accident on your first day?

[49] What happened?

[50] What happened?

[51] You know, it was a very bad start.

[52] It was an old and junk car, you know.

[53] So I hit a paddle on the 3rd Avenue and then the brakes didn't work.

[54] So I scratch another car, you know.

[55] So I'm not surprised.

[56] Welcome to New York City.

[57] I'm not surprised because everywhere I start in my life, I start bad, but I end up good.

[58] Everyone, honestly.

[59] So that was first day.

[60] It sounds like you're describing renting a car.

[61] Correct.

[62] How do you make a decision to try to own a car and to get involved in the medallion system?

[63] I'll let you know and I remember it exactly.

[64] And by the way, for people who don't understand, what is the medallion system?

[65] That's the number we see on the hood.

[66] So it's like a, yeah, it looks like a police shield.

[67] This number.

[68] Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[69] This number, 751.

[70] What happens if you don't have that medallion?

[71] The police will not arrest you.

[72] That medallion is your right to...

[73] To hail a New York City.

[74] To own a taxi or rent a taxi, but without that, you're not a taxi.

[75] No. Okay, and you own that.

[76] Yes.

[77] Yes.

[78] And when I bought that, they're specific that you are a medallion owner.

[79] You have the exclusive rights to hail a New York City, and that says on the paper.

[80] How much did the medallion cost when you bought it?

[81] And what year was this?

[82] I remember that was in 1990.

[83] Everything's cost, 125 the price of medallion.

[84] $125 ,000.

[85] Price of medallion, over $6 ,000 in sale tax for the New York City.

[86] Broker fee.

[87] And then I had to install the meter and everything.

[88] That was probably about $1 ,000.

[89] And everything cost me like up to $150 ,000 with the car.

[90] So for $150 ,000, you own a medallion and you own your own car.

[91] And basically you own your own business.

[92] Yes.

[93] You are on your business, you know, hard worker, you know, young immigrant, whatever you want to say was like 30 -something years old.

[94] And, you know, had a lot of power to work.

[95] And that's what I did.

[96] So before we talk...

[97] I'm going to let you get through this intersection.

[98] Hold on, because it's a little hairy.

[99] Okay?

[100] Before we talk about what happened to him, would you tell me a little bit about your friend, Nicanor?

[101] And first of all, am I pronouncing his name correctly?

[102] Nicanor O 'Kishore.

[103] Nicanor.

[104] Yeah, Nicanor O 'Kishore.

[105] We call him nickname Norel.

[106] Norel, yeah, because it's easy, you know.

[107] I met him first time in Lagarde Airport at the American Airlines taxi stand.

[108] What year was it?

[109] It was in 1988, I think it was late spring or early summer.

[110] It was in the afternoon around 6 p .m. or 7 p .m. He was talking with me. I heard his accent.

[111] I said, are you from Romania?

[112] And she said, yeah.

[113] And I said, I am Romanian too.

[114] And then we were talking over there for 15, 20 minutes, you know.

[115] and he told me he has a six years or five years old boy.

[116] And I told him I have a daughter, which is five years.

[117] And so then after that, every time when we see in the airport, we went to each other and start talking, you know, about our life.

[118] You know, and he told me the story in the beginning when he started driving how bad it was, you know, because he didn't speak English.

[119] So you guys seem to really understand each other and like each other.

[120] Yeah.

[121] Every problems I had, I always ask him and he asked me, for example, We had the same family doctors and Queens.

[122] We were very, very good friends, not only with him, but his wife too.

[123] So sometime in the week and the Sunday, I find out, you know, we can go to buy grapes from a broccoli market.

[124] You know, there is a broccoli market where grapes come from California.

[125] And we went over there, buy grapes, and then we make wine.

[126] Was it good?

[127] It is very good.

[128] After that, you know, we become much better friends, you know.

[129] Then he brought the medal in one year before.

[130] me, then I brought after him.

[131] Nikonore owns a medallion.

[132] You own a medallion.

[133] Yes.

[134] It sounds like things are going pretty well for both of you.

[135] Correct.

[136] Correct.

[137] Hard workers, but you survive.

[138] You make a living.

[139] So let me just...

[140] Let me just ask you this.

[141] When was the first time that you can recall seeing an Uber or a lift on the streets of New York?

[142] I think it was in 2000.

[143] End of 2013 or end of 2014.

[144] So 2000, 2014?

[145] Because I had a friend of mine which used to to drive a taxi.

[146] And I remember somebody bleep the horn in the back of me on Allen Street and Stanton.

[147] So Lauren and Rivington.

[148] Usually I do like this, you know, what the hell do you want?

[149] You know, then he came next to me. I look and I saw him.

[150] I said, you are lucky I didn't curse you.

[151] So you knew him?

[152] I knew him.

[153] I said, I didn't see you for three, four years.

[154] What are you doing?

[155] I said, I drive a Uber.

[156] I said, what Uber?

[157] I work with Uber.

[158] How's things going?

[159] You know, Yeah, I make better money than the yellow.

[160] That was in the beginning.

[161] So you're seeing a friend pull up alongside you in your taxi in an Uber saying, I drive an Uber now.

[162] Lincoln MKT.

[163] I said, how did this work?

[164] And then in 2014, you know, more people are talking about Uber, more people want to Uber.

[165] And I said, now this is the problem.

[166] Because I see them on the roads, you know, every block I see how many, you know, black cars, you know, TC place number and how many yellow.

[167] Cars like that, do you see TC?

[168] Yep.

[169] The T on the yellow license plate?

[170] Yeah.

[171] That means it's a taxi, but not like your taxi.

[172] No, it's, you know, with $270, they can have that car on the road.

[173] You understand?

[174] Which is not very much money.

[175] There's nothing.

[176] So that's why there's so many cars and...

[177] I'm just noticing that they look at how many of them are in a row now.

[178] Yeah, one, two, three.

[179] This is a three.

[180] Yeah, you see?

[181] Well, you know, used to be like seven taxi on the road, and now it's then Uber.

[182] I mean, app car, you know, that's...

[183] Yeah.

[184] I think there's another one behind it.

[185] Yeah, it's very bad.

[186] So let me understand, what would you take home at the end of the year in 2013 or so, and then what do you take home at the end of the year now?

[187] Okay, my net income, you're not going to believe it, but it's less than $32 ,000.

[188] It's less than $32 ,000 now.

[189] Yes.

[190] What was it before Uber, Lyft, all these other guys?

[191] It was more than $40 ,000.

[192] And what happened to the medallion that you bought for $150 ,000 back in the 80s.

[193] What's, what's happened to that and to its value?

[194] The highest value was, you know, in 2012, when the TLC sold at action, minimum $850 ,000.

[195] So something that you bought for $150 ,000, or maybe even a little bit less, $130 ,000 in the late 1980s.

[196] Yes.

[197] Is now worth $800 ,000 or more, which is a nice appreciation.

[198] In 2013.

[199] Yep.

[200] Correct.

[201] And they sold as high.

[202] as 1 .2 million.

[203] 1 .2 million was the value of medallion.

[204] But the beating, you know, for the starting the price was from 850 up.

[205] That seems like a dream.

[206] Yeah.

[207] So if you want to buy a medallion right now today, what's roughly the price?

[208] You can buy with 150, 160.

[209] Wow.

[210] Back to what it was in the 1980s.

[211] Exactly.

[212] That's a pretty awful round -trip journey for you.

[213] Exactly, exactly.

[214] And why is that?

[215] Why is that?

[216] Because you allow these cars in the street for you.

[217] So why should anybody be so stupid to buy now a medallion?

[218] Because it's no restriction for those cars.

[219] They can put as many as they wanted.

[220] And we have all the rules and the restriction.

[221] So you're saying the reason why a medallion is worth less is because there's more competition from these app cars, from Uber, from Lyft, and also your work is more regulated than theirs.

[222] And so this is making it less desirable for people to own a medallion.

[223] I wanted to be clear here.

[224] when you use the word competition has to be careful because there is no competition when I have to pay 160 ,000 for medallion or 270 for license so you're saying the competition is not the right word for that competition this word competition sounds good for Uber but it's it's a fake news the way Trump says you say so you're saying it's it's such an unfair competition exactly it's not really called competition I want competition, but I want to be equal.

[225] Got it.

[226] So if they want to have a free license, I should have a free license.

[227] And how did these changes that you're describing and the erosion of the medallion's value, how did this affect your best friend, Nekinor?

[228] He always was telling me, you know, I meet him, you know, at least four times or five times a week in JFK.

[229] And he was telling me all the time, Nick, I cannot make the same money.

[230] Every day I make less money than before.

[231] And I was telling him, things are going to change.

[232] You know, I'm going to be like that.

[233] Something has to happen, you know, sooner or later, you know.

[234] But this will take time, you know.

[235] But, you know, I think he was more depressed than me because he said, you know, I'm about to retire now and look what I got after 20 plus years working, driving a taxi.

[236] How do you understand that?

[237] What is a lower valued medallion?

[238] How does it change your retirement?

[239] Because both of you were in your 60s.

[240] So I imagine you and he were both thinking about what the rest of your life is going to look like when you're not behind the wheel of his taxi.

[241] And so how would a medallion's value falling change his retirement?

[242] I use my case now.

[243] I'm 62.

[244] So in the beginning we think, well, if I buy a medallion, I pay so much interest to the bank, you don't pay too much into socialized.

[245] security in terms of federal tax.

[246] But I will have my medallion as a retirement.

[247] Your medallion is your retirement.

[248] Yes.

[249] If it's worth a lot.

[250] I never taught to sell it.

[251] I thought to give it to the broker to have, you know, a $3 ,000 a month, you know, income.

[252] Just to understand your plan, and maybe this was his plan too.

[253] Exactly.

[254] Exactly.

[255] Nicconor was to let somebody else lease your medallion the way you leased medallions when you were getting started.

[256] And basically they're paying you rent.

[257] Exactly.

[258] And that's how you're going to retire.

[259] Exactly.

[260] That's how we thought.

[261] And so what happens when the medallion in falls, what does that do to that plan?

[262] But now if you give them a dollar into the broker, the broker will go give you probably 800.

[263] Not $3 ,000 a month.

[264] No, no, no, no, no. Because now they don't have drivers.

[265] Because no one wants to drive now because of what's going on with...

[266] Why should anybody pick up a yellow taxi to drive when it's all full of regulation?

[267] And when we go in the airport, we have to go in the waiting area, you know, in the line, and then we go one by one to the terminal.

[268] Right.

[269] When Uber goes over there, everywhere it's black cars going, people looking with a phone on the head's hand like this.

[270] Yeah.

[271] Looking for that.

[272] What is the, what is the, what is the, what is the, so you cannot get in and can I get out.

[273] When you talk to Nicanor, what was most upsetting to him?

[274] He was always kind of quiet, man, didn't speak too much, you know, and he speak only what he has to say, you know.

[275] I am different.

[276] I'm a big mouth, you know, and, you know, but two days before, I saw him.

[277] his voice different.

[278] He was talking so slow, just like, you know, he didn't want to have a life anymore.

[279] And I had another friend of mine, which, Eugene, which he told me about him, you know, a day before he saw Norel and didn't like the way he talk and the way he looks.

[280] And another one, his name is Salomon Waze.

[281] So these friends were worried about what they were seeing?

[282] Solomon met him the day before, Thursday evening, on the day.

[283] way home after the Queensboro Bridge on the Thompson Street, Solomon saw him and they pull over on the Tory Street and the 48th Avenue and they talk with each other.

[284] And Solomon said, you know, I didn't like the way he looks and didn't like the way he talked.

[285] And, you know, because he seemed down.

[286] He seemed very, very down.

[287] So that's what Thursday evening and Friday morning around 10 a .m., he hanged himself.

[288] He hanged himself in the garage in the bank of the garage.

[289] At home?

[290] At home.

[291] And his garage.

[292] Because he has a, garage separate of the house.

[293] That's terrible.

[294] Then when his son came home, his wife came home, and then his son looked for him and opened the garage door.

[295] And so, you know, then he called the police and called my friend, Eugene.

[296] And Eugene went to the house.

[297] And another friend of mine, Dan, called me and says, what happened with Norel?

[298] I said, I don't know, because two days ago I spoke with him.

[299] And where were you when you got that call?

[300] I wasn't in Lagarde Airport.

[301] In the taxi?

[302] In the taxi.

[303] You know, I'm waiting in the waiting lot.

[304] So then I called my friend Eugene.

[305] He said, I cannot talk, but I'll text you.

[306] So then I got a text.

[307] If I look back, I can find the text.

[308] And he said, poor Norel, he hang himself.

[309] Everybody said, why, why?

[310] And, you know, doing the research, we thought it's only the medallion.

[311] I just want to understand what you're saying because it's a very, it's a very significant and very awful suggestion that the value of his medallion had fallen so much and that his finances had changed and deteriorated so rapidly.

[312] Yes.

[313] That you believe that is why he took his life.

[314] That's the only reason why he did.

[315] That's how I think I was skeptical in the beginning, but I see no signs to be something else.

[316] Nikolai, what did Nikonore's family say about his death?

[317] Why do they think he killed himself?

[318] That's that I just, I told you, and I say again, that's what they believe that's the reason, medallion.

[319] From what I can tell from doing some reading before we met up with you, this is the fourth taxi driver in New York City.

[320] I know the guy, the Dark Schaefer, I know him.

[321] So four of your colleagues have committed suicide.

[322] And in each case, people around them, are asking if the reason they killed themselves was because of the changes in this industry that made them feel that they were losing their identity, that they were losing their money, that their life would not be what they hoped it would be because of these changes.

[323] And I wonder if that's...

[324] If you look at the age, Dak Shephyr of us about my age, Nikanurro Kishar about my age, at this age, you cannot take losses.

[325] Like you could do it at the age.

[326] So I cannot speak for them, but I can say this.

[327] You know, not everybody can take the losses.

[328] You know, remember during the Depression?

[329] How many people killed themselves?

[330] Right.

[331] So is this partly, though, about the inevitable changes in an industry?

[332] People's habits change, people's lifestyles change.

[333] You've just parked this car in front of the New York Times.

[334] Yeah.

[335] You know that our industry changed.

[336] They used to be people getting newspapers every day.

[337] newspapers every day.

[338] They don't want them in their life.

[339] Yeah, but they can go on the app.

[340] They can.

[341] It changed.

[342] And you see?

[343] But is your industry something that just is becoming obsolete and inevitably there's going to be something that comes and it challenges it and it's a hard, it must be a hard thing to hear.

[344] It's a hard thing to say because you're a wonderful person and you've built a wonderful business.

[345] But is this just the inevitable way of the world and business?

[346] Okay.

[347] I put it in this way.

[348] If the city of New York likes more Uber and lifters.

[349] Okay, come to the table, make a deal with the yellow taxi medallion owners, and arrange them a settlement.

[350] Don't turn your back at me after you sold me the exclusive rights.

[351] I still own the exclusive rights.

[352] I want that back.

[353] You're arguing the city, the regulators have betrayed you because you bought what you believe was an exclusive right to pick up passengers and they actually let everybody else have that same right without paying what you paid.

[354] And so the contract has been broken.

[355] Let me say something else.

[356] Did you watch the Super Bowl this year?

[357] Half of it.

[358] Okay.

[359] What channel brought us the Super Bowl?

[360] One of the major networks.

[361] Channel 5?

[362] Why Channel 2 didn't bring us?

[363] Because they didn't pay for the rights to it.

[364] Ah, so I pay for the rights to hell.

[365] So why my rights are broke?

[366] It would be like if we stole the game on television?

[367] Why?

[368] Just because Uber is Silicon Valley, you know, bullshit.

[369] They stick you.

[370] So you're saying this is not.

[371] about disruption and innovation to you.

[372] It's about my exclusive rights.

[373] Once you sold me the exclusive rights, you have the right to buy that back, but not for peanuts.

[374] What are cab drivers like you and the cab drivers that you talk to when you guys have some time to talk at JFK or at a restaurant?

[375] What are you saying to each other about what happened to Nekonar?

[376] I would say this.

[377] I said that this before.

[378] He's not going to be first, not going to be last.

[379] If something doesn't City doesn't do something Doesn't act Will be more Will be more I just spoke yesterday with a guy Cliff, his name, you know And he said He wants to kill himself last summer When he lost the medallia He's a Greek guy and a veteran I am afraid More will do that I fear that You know Honestly Right now me I have nothing to lose What are going to lose?

[380] I lost more than a million dollars You know, in value You've lost more than a million dollars But I'm not going to kill myself I'm going to fight Until I'm going to die I guess I just want to say one thing That I think I'm wrestling with And I'm guessing the producers Are wrestling with two here Okay I don't want to speak for anybody else But I take Ubers And you're making me wonder You as a passenger You have the right to take Whatever you want to take But they should pay for the license like me you don't play in passengers no no because you know you as a passenger you are my bread and butter you understand I have to respect that if you don't like me you don't have to come on my cap you know but they should pay for the license like I do they shouldn't get the for free Nikola I want to thank you for taking us on a really remarkable journey through your career and the city today, at least Manhattan.

[381] We're really grateful for your time.

[382] Well, thank you very much.

[383] Me too.

[384] And what can I say?

[385] Good luck.

[386] Enter the tip amount.

[387] Is insert, swipe, or tap card now.

[388] I think you have to sign.

[389] Did you sign?

[390] I don't know.

[391] Oh.

[392] Would you like a receipt?

[393] Yes.

[394] Okay, wait over, wait like five, six seconds and press yes in the back.

[395] Thank you.

[396] Sorry.

[397] Thank you very much for your time.

[398] Thanks a lot.

[399] Okay, I have to tell that next.

[400] I'm okay.

[401] I'm sorry to say, the last guy which committed his suicide, he was a best friend of mine.

[402] His financial problem was less than mine.

[403] On Monday, weeks after Nikonore O 'Keshore's death, Nikolai spoke at a hearing held by the, New York City Council, urging the City Council to act.

[404] In 1990, everything's I had, I pay for the medallion.

[405] Now looks like I'm going to retire homeless.

[406] In a first step, the council weighed several bills that could change the rules for car service apps and limit the number of four higher cars throughout the city.

[407] We'll be right back.

[408] Here's what else you need to another day.

[409] On Tuesday, President Trump expressed fury over the disclosure of 49 questions that special counsel Robert Mueller wants to ask him in the Russia investigation.

[410] In a tweet, the president wrote, quote, so disgraceful that the questions concerning Russian witch hunt were leaked to the media.

[411] He added, incorrectly, no questions on collusion.

[412] In fact, at least a dozen of Mueller's questions related to possible cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia.

[413] That's it for the Daily.

[414] I'm Michael Barbaro.

[415] See you tomorrow.