Dax Shepard

[0] Hi, my name is Dax Shepard, and I feel very optimistic about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.

[1] needs a friend, the show where I, Conan O 'Brien, speak to celebrities, interesting personalities, all in the hopes of finding myself possibly a friend.

[2] And I'm talking one that isn't on my payroll, someone doesn't work for me, a real pal.

[3] I'm aided in my quest by my trusty assistant Sonam of Sessian.

[4] Hi.

[5] And my producer, Matt Goreley.

[6] Hi.

[7] Now, today's guest is someone I have a bone to pick with.

[8] We'll talk about that later.

[9] I do love the guy, Dak Shepard.

[10] I know we've had some stutter steps, but I'm not giving up on this.

[11] You think it's possible?

[12] Absolutely.

[13] There's a little bit of an incident that happened between us that we won't get into right now.

[14] We're going to save that just a little bit, which I think caused us to fail.

[15] A misfire.

[16] It was a misfire in our attempt to get together and become real friends.

[17] And I mean, you, Kristen, and myself and my wife, Liza, really getting together as a foursome.

[18] Yes, a double date.

[19] A proper double date.

[20] Adults, babysitters.

[21] Yeah, the whole nine years.

[22] Valet parking.

[23] Yeah.

[24] Then into the farmer's daughter motel on Fairfax.

[25] Exactly.

[26] And then we switch it up.

[27] We just pop on something exciting.

[28] We'll see what happens.

[29] No expectations.

[30] It's a little Angley ice party scene where there's only four of us.

[31] And we put keys in.

[32] And so it's, if we don't pick our own spouses, nothing exciting has happened.

[33] Right.

[34] I mean, if we do pick our own spices, but spouses.

[35] The best, I fell apart there.

[36] Well, listen, the best part about that scenario is you and I would be on our, you know, respective beds at the farmer's daughter hotel.

[37] And we would be so excited about the possibilities.

[38] And our wives would be so bummed.

[39] Yeah, it's true.

[40] It's true.

[41] They both would be praying that we got our own car key.

[42] in that scenario.

[43] Isn't that a testament?

[44] That's exactly what would happen.

[45] Yeah.

[46] That's exactly what would happen.

[47] It says a lot about us, you and I. I think it does.

[48] I think women cringe when we look at them.

[49] But that's not true.

[50] You're a real man's man. I'm going to say this about you.

[51] Okay.

[52] You're a man's man. And I say this because I visited your house not long ago when we recorded your podcast, where you had an incredibly comfortable chair and I did not, but I guess that's your thing.

[53] Well, you had a couch.

[54] It wasn't that uncomfortable.

[55] It wasn't great.

[56] I didn't have you on a...

[57] You know what it was?

[58] I'm pretty sure there's a fold -out iron bed in that.

[59] It's one of those kind of...

[60] An iron maiden?

[61] Yeah, there's a stint.

[62] It was not a comfortable plush couch.

[63] I didn't feel that way.

[64] Well, I, first of all, I apologize.

[65] And...

[66] Do you though?

[67] Yeah.

[68] Because your chair was...

[69] Your chair...

[70] Is a lazy boy.

[71] It's incredible.

[72] It is incredible chair.

[73] It is incredible chair.

[74] I gave it up one time on one episode because have you interviewed David Harbour?

[75] I have not.

[76] Do you know who he is from Stranger Things?

[77] He's the cop.

[78] Yeah.

[79] He arrived and I was like, this guy's a fucking grizzly bear.

[80] Look at this man. He was just such a man that I felt it would have been inappropriate to not give him that lazy boy chair.

[81] That's interesting because I came in.

[82] I said, this is an equal.

[83] I'll put him on the couch and I'll keep the preferred chair.

[84] That was a good save.

[85] I will say that you are the manlier of men because I come to your house and I see, first of all this like all -terrain vehicle parked in your compound.

[86] On a trailer.

[87] On a trailer.

[88] But it is one of those things that looks like in the – it's a Mad Max post -apocalyptic vehicle that you – It's an L .A. evacuation crisis vehicle.

[89] Like when the 7 .0 hits, my family and I will be in that.

[90] It's a Polaris Razor, four -seater, turbo.

[91] That's what I thought it was.

[92] I saw it, and I was like, that's a Polaris Razor four -seater.

[93] That's what I thought.

[94] I knew you were thinking that, and I appreciated that you didn't try to embarrass me. I think you knew what it was, and you were afraid, he might not know what he even owns, so I'm not even going to bring it up.

[95] And I respected that.

[96] Yeah.

[97] There's this great documentary, I especially think you as the owner of a boy should watch.

[98] He was quite a – I purchased a boy.

[99] That's correct.

[100] Well, you made – I have a daughter and I have a son.

[101] I think that's what you're trying to say.

[102] Yes, you have a daughter and a son, and there is a documentary called The Mask You Live in.

[103] Have you heard of this?

[104] No. Oh, my God.

[105] I have to bring it up because you're talking about masculinity.

[106] And it is all about how we culturally lay the foundation of what a boy or a man's supposed to be.

[107] And pretty much how cancer is it is for all of us.

[108] Yeah.

[109] And they kind of lay out four criteria.

[110] And as we were learning the criteria, I was with Monica and my wife, and it became abundantly clear what a cliche I am.

[111] It was like sexual conquests, that defines manhood, fighting, consuming copious amounts of booze or alcohol or drugs.

[112] And then money, got to make money to be a man. And I was like, oh, that's been driving me since.

[113] eight years old, those four things all day, every day.

[114] I'm one out of four.

[115] That's crazy.

[116] No. Yeah.

[117] I don't, uh...

[118] I heard you can suck down a eighth of an ounce of kind cush weed in a single toke.

[119] That's what I've been told about you.

[120] I'm glad that that's out there about me. Not true?

[121] It is not true.

[122] Okay.

[123] I never, I never dabbled much, never really dabbled at all in drugs, I will say.

[124] And the times I've tried, sweet Mary Jane, I think you guys call it.

[125] Yeah, that's what we're calling it.

[126] Or wacky cigarettes.

[127] The time...

[128] But it was Smigel that told you you would really benefit.

[129] Was he the one who...

[130] Robert Smigel...

[131] Are you blown away with my memory or no?

[132] No, it was pretty recent that I told you.

[133] Okay, okay.

[134] So, the fact that you're bragging about that makes me question your memory.

[135] The fact that you're like, huh?

[136] Remember?

[137] It's O 'Brien, right?

[138] Conan O 'Brien, right?

[139] Pretty good, huh?

[140] I shocked myself, that's why.

[141] Yeah, Robert Smigel, brilliant writer and...

[142] Insult the Comic Dog.

[143] Yeah, Triumph the Insult Comic Dog and blah, blah, blah.

[144] And I've known him forever.

[145] And when we were at Saturday Night Together, he said, you're the only guy I know who would benefit from smoking because it would calm you down.

[146] You're so tightly coiled that it would...

[147] If you smoked, the cancer that you would get would still be offset by the relaxation of the cigarette.

[148] Yeah, yeah.

[149] But, you know, you talk about masculinity.

[150] I think I've done a pretty good job with my son in setting, I think, in a lot of ways, a low bar.

[151] He gets to make, he makes fun of me constantly.

[152] And I'm very self -deprecating around him.

[153] I'm not a big sports guy, meaning I'm not an incredible athlete.

[154] I work out a lot, but I'm not a great athlete.

[155] And so I have not set that expectation.

[156] I'm trying very hard.

[157] What about the stuff like, don't cry?

[158] Oh, I've never told him not.

[159] cry.

[160] Okay.

[161] And what about...

[162] I've wished privately sometimes.

[163] He would stop.

[164] You know, uh, you know, uh, there'd been times, there were times when, uh, you know, when, when he would lose it, uh, over something that I thought was kind of small and I'd think like, gee, you know, you're, you know, my son is in his late 30s and, uh, you know, and I'd be like, okay, you dropped your donut, but you shouldn't cry.

[165] Uh, no, no, my son, uh, no, he doesn't, I've never done that.

[166] I've never ashamed him for in any way, I don't think.

[167] Well, how about this?

[168] It starts with a very simple observation, which was definitely true where I grew up, which is we almost define boys in opposition to girls.

[169] Yeah.

[170] And so the worst thing you can be as a boy is to be a girl, is to be feminine.

[171] And in order of insults on a playground, it is basically you're a sissy, you're a girl.

[172] Right.

[173] And it's – so the only thing topping the female thing is then the homophobia.

[174] So it's like – so what's tricky is when you're – when you're – introducing this concept that to be a girl is bad and it's not boylike, you inadvertently are basically establishing a hierarchy of one's better than the other.

[175] If you're supposed to avoid that.

[176] And then we get in these very insular clubs because it's very hard for us to emote and to talk about our feelings because we're told not to do that.

[177] And then we get old enough where we start drinking and now we say I love you and that's why we drink so we can tell everybody we love them.

[178] And now we're in this little pot and we've been told our whole life that being a woman or a girl is bad, so that weirdly we feel superior to them.

[179] I think it's all tricky, and I found myself going like, oh, yeah, I got that software downloaded into me big time.

[180] Yeah, but it sounds like you are unpacking it.

[181] I'm trying, but some of it is so, I find this when I'm working on a car and I hit my hand and I really draw blood, like it's, I'm already frustrated and then the wrench slips and then I cut my hand my and I'm ashamed to admit this but the first word out of my mouth is a homophobic pejorative because it's like in my reptilian brain like on the playground that was the worst thing you could be called and you were trying at all times to not be called that and so it's just it's it's cemented in there and I can't get it out you know I know enough not to do that in real life, but like in a moment where I got really badly hurt and I'm already frustrated that word comes out and it's cuckoo.

[182] Because I'm not homophobic.

[183] I'm trying to relate to you but I don't work on cars and the closest I can get to is if I'm watching a PBS documentary on Emily Dickinson.

[184] Great.

[185] And they leave out the part where she was in love with her gardener out the window.

[186] Exactly.

[187] And they skip that part and they say they're going to get to it Later, I usually shout out some kind of a slur.

[188] Yeah, be it racial, homophobic, something, right?

[189] And I worry that my son will see that and feel that I'm less of a man while I'm watching the Emily Dickinson.

[190] Yes.

[191] But it's very hard you do have that software.

[192] I don't think I have that software.

[193] You don't?

[194] I don't think I have that.

[195] How could you've grown up in Massachusetts or however you guys say it?

[196] That's exactly how we say it.

[197] How did you know that?

[198] As an exceedingly tall red -headed kid and not have been called names.

[199] You weren't called those names?

[200] No, no. I was called names.

[201] I, you know, got into, you know, scrapes every now and then.

[202] Okay.

[203] I had my nose broken once very badly in the north end of Boston.

[204] At what age?

[205] I was 18.

[206] And I was assaulted by a group.

[207] I believe they were young Italian men who didn't think an Irish guy should be in there I swear to God it's so ironic too right it's like an 18th century squabble it really was like look an Irishman has come you know into the Italian section what is this is this 1820 well the saddest sociodynamic if we're going to use words like that I'm out that's not even a word I just kind of you're a strong guy and you've had a lot of experience fighting yes uh huh Okay.

[208] How confident are you that, like right now, if I whipped this podcast headset off and came across the room and started swinging that you'd be able to handle me?

[209] I feel good about it.

[210] Yeah.

[211] What would my, do you think I would be a worthy opponent or, and just be honest.

[212] I don't strike you as a guy.

[213] Well, I'll tell you some things.

[214] Yeah.

[215] I know you exercise a lot.

[216] I think you're strong.

[217] You're bigger than me. I think you outweigh me probably by 30 pounds or so.

[218] Oh, that's muscle weight?

[219] Yeah, you're thin.

[220] Whatever you have is muscle.

[221] Well, not all of it.

[222] Did you wrestle with your brothers a lot growing up?

[223] Not effectively.

[224] Okay.

[225] I was quickly overwhelmed by my oldest brother, Neil, who was much, much bigger than all of us, and would just sit on me and then laugh as I was underneath him.

[226] Right.

[227] Okay.

[228] Well, you know, much like Tarzan grew up around apes, and he could break it.

[229] He could swing from trees like that.

[230] Yeah.

[231] So my brother was five years older than me, and he fought me every hour of every day.

[232] And I think that made me a very good wrestler.

[233] Because I was fighting someone much bigger than me and older than me. So I feel like my wrestling skills are really on point.

[234] I fought my mother physically.

[235] Okay.

[236] Which didn't go well.

[237] She also best of me. So then I went after my grandmother who lived in the house with us.

[238] Okay.

[239] How did you do against her?

[240] She also won.

[241] Which did she employ her walker?

[242] She was in her 90s.

[243] Okay.

[244] All right.

[245] All right.

[246] But she, no, she used just brute strength.

[247] So I think you're probably - She also had a mouth like a sailor too, right?

[248] Oh my God.

[249] The psychological game was weird.

[250] Don't get me started on that one.

[251] You know, my grandmother lived in the house with us when we were growing up, and she had grown up, she had lived a very long time, and she had grown up in Massachusetts during the early 20th century.

[252] I mean, I think she was like 22 years old when the Titanic sank.

[253] Oh, really?

[254] And so she, on St. Patrick's Day, she pulled me aside, and she told me, now you're going to go to school today, and all the Protestant kids are going to tease you.

[255] And I was like, this is 1975.

[256] And, you know, I'm going to this racially mixed public school where, you know, kids have afros.

[257] There's Korean kids.

[258] I mean, it's just no one's thinking about this.

[259] Singling out here.

[260] And she said, you're going to go to school today.

[261] and the Protestant kids are going to laugh you and I'll never forget this she said and they're going to try and rile you and she said they're going to put chalk in your milk and I thought like oh my God that's something that happened to her in 1902 some Protestants put a piece of chalk in her milk and got the best of Marty Reardon and I was like what what?

[262] And then of course I went to school They're going to put thermal in your oil lamp.

[263] And when you light, to do your homework tonight, it's going to smoke up the whole house.

[264] Yeah, they're good to exchange your whale oil for seal oil.

[265] And the light will be dimmer than you expect.

[266] So she, and then I got to school and, like, people are wearing deschikis.

[267] And, you know, it's just, it's just like, what do you?

[268] But anyway, the point being that this.

[269] It didn't happen.

[270] It didn't happen to you?

[271] It didn't happen.

[272] It was not mocked for being Irish.

[273] I was mocked for being, I got hand -me -down clothes or a lot.

[274] in my life and my pants never fit because my legs grew so fast so I was constantly tormented where's the flood?

[275] Hey, where's the flood?

[276] Right.

[277] Where's the flood?

[278] And for a while I didn't understand it and then they said...

[279] Yeah, it's complex.

[280] Someone had to explain if there were a flood, you would raise your pants and I was like oh, okay, just put chalk in my milk then.

[281] Right, right.

[282] Let's just cut to the chase.

[283] Put the chalk in my milk.

[284] But it makes me think, did you read the first tycoon, the Cornelius Vanderbilt?

[285] I've read, I've skipped through it and read pieces of it, but I love it.

[286] Oh, I love it.

[287] I've read all those, what are they, parishioner, what do you say, the class, those tycoons.

[288] Yes, yes, the, I mean that golden age.

[289] Yeah, they call it parishioner class.

[290] I don't know.

[291] At any rate, of all those guys, Carnegie, you know.

[292] Rockefeller.

[293] Rockefeller.

[294] The most fascinating is Cornelius Vanderbilt because he was just a tough son of a bit.

[295] And he got, I think he grew up just, I think he had like one rowboat when he started.

[296] He did, yeah, he lived on a little island.

[297] Yeah.

[298] It was all Dutch people.

[299] And he grew it into this steamship empire.

[300] But the most famous fighter of the day, some Irishman who was like the champion of New York, said some stuff about him in the paper.

[301] And then they were having the St. Patrick's Day parade.

[302] And Cornelius was on horseback.

[303] And that fighter came out into the.

[304] street and he was pretty drunk and Cornelius got off of his horse and punched out the heavyweight champion and it's documented in the paper.

[305] It's not like lore.

[306] And yeah, now that's the kind of tycoon I want to read about.

[307] Exactly.

[308] You don't see Bill Gates knocking anyone, knocking out Mike Tyson at the St. Paddy's Day.

[309] Exactly.

[310] If, if, if, if, if, yeah, Mark Zuckerberg took out, you said what about McGregor.

[311] Hey, McGregor, you said what about Facebook?

[312] All right, all right, I'm sorry, I'm Saudi.

[313] No, come here.

[314] We're going to rip your ass.

[315] Let's do this publicly.

[316] We're going to take a break.

[317] What the fuck is that?

[318] We take breaks on here?

[319] Yeah, we take breaks on this one because you know what?

[320] This thing's a cash cow.

[321] Okay, good.

[322] Let's make some money.

[323] Aren't these cash cows?

[324] Oh, yeah, yeah, they are.

[325] We'll talk about that.

[326] Yeah, we will.

[327] Because I'm a little worried about it.

[328] You've been told it's a cash cow, which is why you're sitting here.

[329] Put a ton of my own money into this and I'm not seeing anything back.

[330] All right, we'll take a break.

[331] Hold on.

[332] And now for the segment, Conan O 'Brien pays off the mortgage on his beach house.

[333] Yeah, I hate to bore people with my financial problems.

[334] But as you know, I got a beach house, but on a nice beach, and then took out a really big mortgage.

[335] Mm -hmm.

[336] And then took a loan on that mortgage almost immediately.

[337] What?

[338] Then took a loan on that loan.

[339] So...

[340] There's so many bad decisions.

[341] Yes, I counted.

[342] It's three bad decisions.

[343] Yeah.

[344] in a very quick succession.

[345] I'm okay.

[346] Everyone's fine.

[347] Kids are going to eat and there's a roof over ahead and everything, but I need to get to work.

[348] Yeah, you need to make some money.

[349] And we must do that now.

[350] We're back sitting here with Dax Shepard.

[351] You really do think we could be friends.

[352] Oh, absolutely.

[353] You know, I really do.

[354] I know that this is like kind of a comedic premise.

[355] I recognize that.

[356] It's a bit of a comedic premise, but it has some great.

[357] grain of truth in it.

[358] Yeah, I would like to discuss the real of it.

[359] Yeah, if you're open to it.

[360] I am.

[361] Maybe you'll have to save this to episode 100 where you have a breakthrough or something.

[362] Yeah.

[363] But in your mind, when you think about the fact that you haven't accumulated a bunch of friends in show business, my assumption is you think it's their fault.

[364] Is that accurate?

[365] Nothing's my fault.

[366] Well, I mean, it's very human to assume it's the other person doesn't want to be friends with you.

[367] Yeah.

[368] Is that your assumption?

[369] I mean, sincere.

[370] If we're going to do the sincere thing, I have to change my tone of voice.

[371] Maybe a different shirt, too.

[372] We've had a whole wardrobe they ran in for you.

[373] Yeah, I need a sincere wardrobe right now.

[374] Something, I need something made of hemp.

[375] Yeah, I would say it's a mostly, I would say it's mostly comedic premise, and then there's a grain of truth, but it more comes out.

[376] I actually do not blame other people.

[377] people.

[378] I don't.

[379] If we're going to be sincere, I don't blame other people.

[380] I know that I have, I spoke with your wife about this.

[381] I'm really busy and I have a wife and two kids and I'm really involved with them.

[382] I come from a big family and I do have a set of friends and it's very hard to get together with them.

[383] Very hard.

[384] It's really hard to make it happen.

[385] You and I also live on opposite sides of this city, which shouldn't be a big deal, but it actually is a gigantic deal.

[386] Yeah, if you're listening and you don't know about Los Angeles, uh, you, it takes 90 minutes for me to get to Conan's house at the wrong time of day, and it's only 19 miles.

[387] Yeah, and that's in a Lear jet.

[388] I mean, that's incredible.

[389] And you have, you have, you have post -apocalyptic cars that can drive over other cars.

[390] I've thought about just going straight over the Santa Monica Mountains to your house in the off -road vehicle.

[391] And I'm not ruling that out.

[392] Could you do?

[393] it?

[394] Well, if that fucking P -21 Cougar could get himself from there over to Griffith Park, I assume I must be able to.

[395] Yeah, you could do it in your vehicle.

[396] Just need some mobile ramps and stuff.

[397] Oh, that's a problem.

[398] But there's a couple interesting things to explore, which is one is, that just might be you, right?

[399] You might not be ultra -social and you might be very satisfied being with your family and using all the time you're not at work for your family.

[400] And then that would be fine, but even if you were fine with it, you'd have to relieve yourself of this expectation that people should have a ton of friends.

[401] Like, you couldn't just peacefully go, oh, you know what?

[402] I'm just not that kind of person because you inherently or innately just kind of feel like, well, what's wrong with me?

[403] Why don't I desire that?

[404] Yeah.

[405] But I wonder for you is, do you desire it or do you just not desire it?

[406] I think two things.

[407] I think one, and this is very hard for people to believe, but it is true of a lot of people to get into comedy.

[408] A lot of people get into comedy, or there's a strain of person that gets into comedy, and I think I fall into this category where there's a bit of a shyness.

[409] And people don't believe that I'm shy because I'm very verbal.

[410] I really do like people.

[411] I like to talk to them.

[412] But I am the kind of person who if I'm at home and I'm on the second floor and the doorbell rings, I'm really hoping my wife gets it because I'm, I need a little, like I need to ramp up to going down and saying, hi to someone and and I don't think anyone listening to this would believe that that's true but I do get a little shy and also when I'm when I'm in a restaurant and I see other celebrities or people I've interviewed I'm I got to work up the nerve a little bit to go over there and say hi to them right because it's not my natural I always think people want to be left alone I don't I don't want to bother them you know this is very boss in of you yeah But what's kind of fascinating is I, too, I didn't have social anxiety my whole life.

[413] I was very social.

[414] I love going to bars and stuff.

[415] Being famous resulted in me having social anxiety, weirdly enough.

[416] Because when I would meet strangers, I would feel, and again, I'm putting this all on myself.

[417] They'd probably be just happy to shake my hand and that be that.

[418] But I feel this obligation to deliver something to them when I meet them.

[419] I feel like from the second we start talking, it's on my shoulders to make this a memorable, interesting exchange.

[420] And quite often, if we're at a public place with a bunch of people, I can't do that 45 times in one night.

[421] And I start just thinking, oh, that person left let down.

[422] Like, oh, that guy isn't nearly as fun or gregarious as he presents himself on Conan's talk show.

[423] So I feel like I have, as a result of being, I don't even like that word, but yes, but being famous has definitely increased my level of social anxiety.

[424] That's interesting.

[425] I don't, do you think you had it on the same level before?

[426] Yeah, I think I had a little bit of that.

[427] I definitely had that shinness before.

[428] I do think, to contrast myself with you, I do feel like people might have.

[429] expect me to um entertain them a little bit and i do it for everybody uh -huh sure unfailingly and sona you can weigh in on this but if the guy comes to change the smoke alarm in the house because you know i want that person to have a satisfactory entertaining moment with conan o 'brien and and uh if i'm at a party of the 150 people and uh and it's some function where I'm supposed to talk to, you know, I'm supposed to mingle and talk to them.

[430] It's some function for the network.

[431] I will get to everybody.

[432] Uh -huh.

[433] And I will give them my full, it's been described.

[434] You'll give them the platinum package, I call it.

[435] Everybody gets it.

[436] Everybody gets it.

[437] And it's not a status thing.

[438] I do it.

[439] I am running for something.

[440] I'm running for some high office.

[441] Yeah, yeah.

[442] And I don't even know what it's for.

[443] Well, I know what it.

[444] For me, it is, and this is something that I've had to like, really work at is the notion that someone would walk away and not like me is so painful.

[445] Yes.

[446] My own ego of like someone, like someone's going to walk away and go, oh, he's an asshole in real life.

[447] I find that to be, you know, painful.

[448] Yes, that's a thought of that.

[449] But through having kids, it has helped move me a little bit closer to a healthy place, which is I am generally quite nice if you meet me out at a restaurant.

[450] Yes, you're a nice guy.

[451] If I'm with my kids, I'm not very nice because it's their time.

[452] It's no one else's time.

[453] So if we're at the airport and people want to take pictures and stuff with us, I'm not mean, but I'm very direct in that this is their time.

[454] And I have had to become comfortable with the notion that, yep, some people on planet Earth are going to leave you and say, that guy's a dick and tell people that I'll never meet that I'm a dick.

[455] And I just have to get comfortable with that because my priority is these two little girls.

[456] And I got to live with that.

[457] And you can't control that.

[458] And also, you can give them everything they want.

[459] But if it's a better story later on in a cocktail party that you're a dick, then you're a dick.

[460] And so you just talk to the person for 15 minutes to try and convince them that you're a good guy.

[461] I'm a good person.

[462] And you bought them some stuff in the airport, you know, in the airport gift shop and carried their bags.

[463] But then they're like, yeah, I met him.

[464] I don't know.

[465] It seemed like kind of a dick.

[466] And that's their story for the rest of their life.

[467] because frankly, it's a funner story.

[468] It's a more fun story.

[469] Let's get to this because...

[470] Really quick, I just love...

[471] When you were on my show, he corrected my English like six or seven times.

[472] And I just said funner.

[473] And as it was coming out of my mouth, I go, he's not going to roll with that and just match my funner.

[474] He's going to say more fun, which is correct.

[475] I don't...

[476] Isn't it crazy how lightning fast these thoughts happen?

[477] Well, for me...

[478] I said funner.

[479] And in the moment those two syllables came out of my mouth, I felt insecure.

[480] I thought about what you were going to do.

[481] All this stuff happened.

[482] That's weird, because I just instantly felt pity for you.

[483] Same shit.

[484] Let's get to this.

[485] We just got to get it out of the way.

[486] Oh, okay.

[487] I made an attempt, a good -hearted attempt.

[488] I came out of my shell.

[489] I reached out to you and I said, after you had suggested it, let's really make this double -date happen.

[490] But, hold on.

[491] That's insufficient.

[492] Hold on.

[493] That's not sufficient.

[494] Hold on.

[495] Okay, go ahead.

[496] you, I put out there, how about 314?

[497] No, no, no, no. I'm not letting you proceed.

[498] Your timeline, you've jumped way too far ahead.

[499] Okay.

[500] So here's what really happened, which is I've been on your show 350 times.

[501] Yeah.

[502] We get along great on your show.

[503] We have a great chemistry.

[504] Yes.

[505] Some of my finest chemistry is shared with you and my wife.

[506] That is a very specific rapport we have.

[507] Yes.

[508] And I ran into you in Santa Barbara.

[509] we're at a party.

[510] And we started talking.

[511] And there I discovered you love history.

[512] Yeah.

[513] And I love history.

[514] So we started really talking about history a whole bunch.

[515] It was fun.

[516] To our wife's total erotic fantasy come true.

[517] Yeah.

[518] They were touching themselves as we were discussing Grant's second term.

[519] Yes.

[520] So in that moment, also that you ride bicycles, you ride motorcycles.

[521] So that now we discovered, oh, we could be real -life friends.

[522] Right.

[523] I think that's relevant.

[524] It's not like on the 29th appearance on your talk show, you were like, hey, let's hang.

[525] No, no, no. And we talked about maybe getting together and we tried to make it happen a few times.

[526] I discovered you were a real three -dimensional human being that I would be interested in hanging out with.

[527] What?

[528] Lozzi is that a surprise to you?

[529] Absolutely.

[530] I meet you on a talk show.

[531] Yeah.

[532] Yeah, you have a persona during the talk show.

[533] Is it that different from who I am in real life?

[534] Well, you do a different voice.

[535] like, I don't know, every two minutes.

[536] Oh.

[537] Now, if you imagine having someone over for dinner who's going to do a different voice every two minutes.

[538] Oh, come on.

[539] I don't do a different voice.

[540] Well, let me in.

[541] I can entertain you.

[542] She, yeah.

[543] One of those mashed potatoes?

[544] Listen, that was my catchphrase for 94.

[545] Are those mashed potatoes?

[546] That was my catchphrase in 94 slash 95.

[547] What are those mashed potatoes?

[548] It was a big thing then.

[549] Look it up.

[550] It was just as it was during Friends' first season.

[551] Here we go.

[552] I put out, how about 314, 315, or 324, you write back, you're really excited, and you say 315.

[553] I love that you're saying your exact sentences, but paraphrasing mine.

[554] I don't feel like this is just at all.

[555] I can't read this.

[556] I have the same shit on my phone that I also brought with me. Okay, listen, I have this printed out on pieces of paper, which makes me better.

[557] Okay?

[558] So we established that the date would be 315.

[559] Now, you're a history buff.

[560] March 15th, the Iads of March.

[561] Yeah, yeah.

[562] Do you know what happened on the eyes of March?

[563] Julius Caesar was stabbed by Mark Antony.

[564] Right?

[565] It was Brutus.

[566] Brutus stabbed him?

[567] Brutus stabbed him.

[568] Oh, not Mark Antony.

[569] I don't think Mark Anthony is...

[570] Do you like how I'm saying Anthony?

[571] Mark Anthony was his only friend, right?

[572] Yeah, Mark...

[573] But Brutus was a friend.

[574] March 15th is a famous date...

[575] That you should go sideways.

[576] Well, not just that, when a man is betrayed...

[577] Betrayal.

[578] By someone he thought was his friend.

[579] Yeah, okay.

[580] The aides of March.

[581] Okay, great.

[582] So, you write me back.

[583] You better read this shit verbatim because I have it.

[584] I have it right here.

[585] I actually was delighted.

[586] Again, I'm going to interject because I'm the fucking guess, and I let you talk more when you were on my show.

[587] Okay, go ahead.

[588] Let me talk for one second.

[589] Oh, here we go.

[590] Listen, hold on.

[591] Listen, stow your pistol.

[592] Order, order.

[593] Stow your pistol.

[594] Quiet, go, I've got him on the ropes.

[595] And he says I'm doing voices all the time.

[596] But it ain't true, I tell you.

[597] I ain't true at all I'm secure I don't need to entertain constantly You say perfect I'll start fasting now 315 March 15th Exclamation point Mm hmm Okay Your friend is telling you To flip the page That's not my friend This is like watching your 90 year old grandma Kick your ass It's laborious Then I reach out to you on the 15th And say hey is this happening You get back to me And the only reason I bring is up to say you.

[598] Here's where I insist you now go verbatim, which I'm now holding the same script as you.

[599] Okay.

[600] Go ahead.

[601] Let me do my part.

[602] You read your part.

[603] Because by the way, when I look this up to find out who was right or who was wrong, and you'll soon learn I was wrong.

[604] I can admit that.

[605] That's all I wanted.

[606] I was upset to see that I was wrong, but then I was delighted by our exchange because it really delivered.

[607] You're very funny in your exchange.

[608] Can I say one thing just beforehand?

[609] The only reason I'm bringing this up and being such a stickler is that I did your podcast, and I said, said you canceled day of and you insisted that it was impossible.

[610] That it was impossible that you would cancel day of.

[611] Yep.

[612] So I went back into the files.

[613] As did I. And when I realized that you canceled day of, I had...

[614] Did you do a victory dance?

[615] I orgasm.

[616] Okay, great.

[617] Good.

[618] For the first time in four years.

[619] There's a mix of dust.

[620] Mostly dust.

[621] Mostly dust came out.

[622] Some lint.

[623] Yeah, lint and a Lincoln penny.

[624] So my friend Conan inquires whether or not we're on for that night.

[625] And here's my response.

[626] So when we made these plans and I picked this date, I knew I was shooting a sitcom, but at the time they told me we would shoot live on Fridays in front of an audience.

[627] Then I got the schedule last night and learned I will be shooting stuff tonight as well.

[628] For some weird reason, I'm attaching it.

[629] I guess because it's very important to me that you know I'm not lying, which in and of itself probably deserves some exploration.

[630] At any rate, I'm very bummed that this is the case, and I hope we can reschedule.

[631] Don't give up on me, Dad.

[632] Interesting, you made me your father.

[633] Uh -huh.

[634] That's right.

[635] And I did attach the schedule, which, by the way, literally did come out the night before.

[636] So I couldn't have really done a better job because I just found out basically when you found out.

[637] I understand.

[638] Not to excuse it.

[639] I still canceled on you day up.

[640] But are you going to read your response or can I read yours?

[641] I don't think I have my response.

[642] So you say, you say DAC.

[643] I called your line producer and you aren't even in the cast.

[644] He said you never got the role and haven't worked in months.

[645] You need help, man. No problem.

[646] Let's do it some other time.

[647] It's not like I'm terminally ill or anything.

[648] Off to the doctor now, Conan.

[649] Right.

[650] It's just a brilliant response.

[651] So then I respond, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.

[652] I give you like nine, ha, ha, ha, ha.

[653] You know how funny I thought it was.

[654] Quote, I called your line producer.

[655] I'm even quoting you.

[656] Yeah.

[657] You wrote back, I was told that's a thing.

[658] Yeah.

[659] A little self -deprecation at the end.

[660] Now, I look at that as a big victory for both of us.

[661] I wasn't a big victory.

[662] And you know what?

[663] I wasn't upset.

[664] The only reason, we're talking about this now, is that you insisted on your podcast, that you would never do that.

[665] And I just had to set the record straight.

[666] Yeah.

[667] That on the aides of March, you stabbed me in the back.

[668] I did.

[669] I watched you bleed on the steps of the Senate floor.

[670] But, no, it is.

[671] you know, it is, we're going to get together, and you and I are going to talk about history.

[672] And maybe the ladies can't, I mean, maybe the ladies can't be there if we're going to talk about history.

[673] Well, that's the other most predictable outcome of our night at the Farmer's Daughter Hotel is that you and I probably will just start passionately rolling around in the binding of a grant biography.

[674] Yes, exactly.

[675] You know, smearing the pages on each other's faces.

[676] Listen, I got to say that was probably my favorite moment.

[677] you and I ever had on your show was I was going through what I think I am out of 10.

[678] Do you recall this?

[679] You probably don't.

[680] Yes, I do.

[681] And then I'm a 6, but lucky for us, men, women subconsciously average your personality in your looks.

[682] And they think that's what they're seeing.

[683] So I was telling you, well, my personality is a 10.

[684] And looks her as 6.

[685] Thank God my wife, season 8 when I walk in the door.

[686] Yeah.

[687] And then you said to me, what am I?

[688] said, well, your looks are a five, and you came unglued.

[689] And I'm like, well, hold on.

[690] I'm only giving myself six.

[691] Do you remember that?

[692] That was a really fun.

[693] I don't understand why I was a five.

[694] I still don't understand.

[695] There's no comedy if I say six.

[696] There's comedy if I say one lower than me. I thought your whole thing was that you're being sincere.

[697] No, on podcasts I am.

[698] On your show, I'm a liar and an instigator and a provocateur.

[699] Right.

[700] But you're challenged all those guys.

[701] Okay, what am I?

[702] We're on the podcast now.

[703] I think you and I are very comparable.

[704] I think you're a six.

[705] I think I'm higher than that.

[706] Okay.

[707] What do you think you are?

[708] Okay.

[709] I've got, first of all, I think if I got a few things fixed.

[710] Well, no, no, this is not the...

[711] Yeah, listen to me. This is not the post -makeover assessment.

[712] I have thin unattractive lips.

[713] Okay.

[714] Get those plumped out.

[715] Okay.

[716] I have rat -like eyes.

[717] I have beady eyes.

[718] And I have an eye vein that shows up on camera.

[719] And I...

[720] If I could get those things...

[721] I have killer hair.

[722] hair.

[723] I'm a 12 when it comes to air.

[724] Well, you can't go over 10.

[725] Okay.

[726] I'm a 10 in hair.

[727] Okay.

[728] I've got a, I work out.

[729] My body's in pretty good shape.

[730] It is.

[731] Yeah.

[732] I'm going to give myself from my age.

[733] I'm going to give myself an aid on that.

[734] But yeah, I got to get rad up.

[735] I would go higher.

[736] I'd say if we're just talking your physique at 55, you're at nine.

[737] Okay.

[738] Thank you.

[739] Yeah.

[740] Yeah.

[741] So you're saying my face drags me down.

[742] My face drags me down to a six.

[743] Well, no, I'm not, I'm not averaging your body.

[744] I'm just going with your face and your personality.

[745] Okay.

[746] What's wrong with the personality?

[747] It's a 10.

[748] Your personality's a 10.

[749] Your looks are a 5.

[750] It makes you a 7 .5.

[751] I've only got you by 0 .5 in my scenario.

[752] I don't.

[753] You don't accept that.

[754] It's good for you.

[755] You've got a competitive flare.

[756] I got to fix this face.

[757] We got to get you some fillers.

[758] It sounds like is what you want.

[759] You want some fillers in your lips.

[760] I want lips filler.

[761] I have to have the eyes opened up a little bit.

[762] Okay.

[763] Because when I look from sides...

[764] You're going to have to go to Asia for that.

[765] That's a procedure that's done frequently.

[766] When I look from side to side, I look like one of those...

[767] I look like a rat looking around to see if the room is safe to enter.

[768] And I want that to go away.

[769] Okay.

[770] We can fix that, yeah.

[771] And you can see my veins through my skin because of my pale complex.

[772] That we're stuck with, unless you want to wear an eye patch.

[773] Because they can't make your skin thicker, to my knowledge.

[774] I was thinking of having the eye vein removed.

[775] But then I found out that it supplies most of blood to my brain.

[776] Okay.

[777] then let's not do that.

[778] Although, you know what you could do is you could use this great product Latisse that women use to make their eyelashes thicker.

[779] I think if we got your eyelashes so thick and powerful, it could distract from that vein you don't like.

[780] Okay.

[781] What do you think of that?

[782] I'll do it.

[783] Okay, great.

[784] I think what we took away from all of this, and maybe this is why, I don't know, you sort of gave away the ending to maybe this whole podcast, which is that I may not want a lot of friends.

[785] I have a couple of friends who are really good friends.

[786] Yeah.

[787] And I have friends that go back 35 years, who I talk to all the time, once, twice a week.

[788] I'm really close with those people.

[789] You're also someone who historically has remained friends with people you've worked with, which I think is a pretty good sign.

[790] Yes.

[791] Oh, no, I'm a loyal friend.

[792] I just, I don't think I'm looking.

[793] That's why you've ruined this podcast.

[794] I was hoping to.

[795] I don't think at the end of the day, I would love to hang with you whenever we can make that happen.

[796] But I don't think I'm looking for a lot of celebrity friends.

[797] And I think we have to change the name of the podcast.

[798] Well, do they have to be celebrity friends?

[799] What's the point of having a regular friend?

[800] Well, that's, you bring up a good point.

[801] This is going to sound terrible.

[802] Okay.

[803] But I do very well with the common man. I'm shut.

[804] That's what the guy who installed your smoke detector told me. I ran into him in the hallway.

[805] He was doing some work here.

[806] I said, hey there, common man. I know you're a plight.

[807] Did you take a mule here?

[808] Did you have any problem getting your mule up the driveway?

[809] All right, we got to wrap this up.

[810] All right.

[811] You're an excellent...

[812] Can you feel how much I like you?

[813] I keep trying to make this go longer.

[814] Do you feel me trying to make this go longer?

[815] Because it's more time with you.

[816] I do, and it's pushing me away.

[817] Yeah, yeah.

[818] I'm being a needy?

[819] Yeah.

[820] It's coming up.

[821] It's very needy.

[822] Okay.

[823] But loved this.

[824] Thank you so much.

[825] And also, I can't believe this hasn't come up yet.

[826] You are, you're killing it in the podcast world.

[827] So I am absolutely thrilled that you, and that you took the time to come here and do this because this is your, this is your matier.

[828] I don't know what that word means.

[829] Is that French?

[830] Is it correctly?

[831] Sounds like matinee, like the Latin for matinee.

[832] Are you saying that is something I do in the afternoons?

[833] Okay, no. No, this is, this is what you do.

[834] You've, you took to it like a duck to water that hadn't been in water before, but then immediately like the water.

[835] All right.

[836] God bless.

[837] You're a good man. I love you, Conan O 'Brien.

[838] I love you, too, Dach Shepherd.

[839] And now another segment of Conan O 'Brien pays off the mortgage on his beach house.

[840] Hi, everyone.

[841] This is Matt again.

[842] So there's something slightly unique with this one in that you guys.

[843] have semi -concrete plans to actually hang out as friends.

[844] Do you think that's actually going to happen?

[845] Yeah, I do for sure.

[846] I have a lot of shortcomings, but I am, and again, March 15th excluded, I am a man of my word.

[847] It did seem like you took great pains to show how stressed you were that I included a document when I told my connet.

[848] Right?

[849] Yeah.

[850] Yeah.

[851] So I definitely think we will hang out.

[852] Sooner or later, he'll move east or I'll move west.

[853] There's no way we'll end our lives separated like this.

[854] You'll do it for each other?

[855] No, no, but just by some other set of circumstance.

[856] You've gone deeper than anyone else thus far, so thank you for that.

[857] Okay.

[858] Thank you.

[859] Sona.

[860] Yes.

[861] It's time to play a little game we call True or False with Sona of Sessian.

[862] You all set?

[863] Not really.

[864] Okay, here we go.

[865] We were just on tour, of course.

[866] Conan working hard.

[867] I go out and I do my, you know, 40 minutes up top.

[868] Then I go out at the end.

[869] I'm working hard going city to city 18 city tour.

[870] You're there to help me out.

[871] True or false, you left me on the last leg of the tour.

[872] You took off.

[873] True or false?

[874] True.

[875] And did you leave me with anyone to help me?

[876] No. You left me alone.

[877] Yes.

[878] Would you like to talk about that at all?

[879] Do you feel bad about it?

[880] No. Okay.

[881] I don't feel bad about it.

[882] You took off and then it was up to me to carry on by myself.

[883] and it was tough.

[884] I'm not trying to make you feel guilty or anything, but if I were you, I'd feel a lot of guilt.

[885] First, I liked how you said, Conan Working Hard.

[886] I just like to get that out there.

[887] In the beginning of this, like you're talking in the third person.

[888] When I hear you talk about this, I just hear you're so valuable that when you leave, there's a hole in my life.

[889] That's a nice way to look at it.

[890] And you know what?

[891] You are valuable to me. So when you left, I thought, I hope this is for a good reason.

[892] Where'd you go?

[893] I went to a wedding.

[894] Who's wedding?

[895] I went to my friend Anaise's wedding.

[896] My friend Anaece and Roger got married in London.

[897] In London?

[898] In London.

[899] Is she a close relative?

[900] No. Oh.

[901] No, she's a friend.

[902] You just went to a friend's wedding.

[903] I went to a friend's wedding.

[904] Yeah, I did.

[905] Did you think at all, maybe I shouldn't go because I'm with Conan on this important tour?

[906] Do you want me to be honest?

[907] Of course?

[908] I didn't.

[909] think about it at all.

[910] I also, I don't even know if I told you that I wasn't going to be there until like, like a day before.

[911] You didn't.

[912] You didn't.

[913] You didn't.

[914] And that's another point.

[915] You didn't say anything to me like, you know, a month from now, because you had to buy tickets to go to London.

[916] You had to make big arrangements.

[917] Yes.

[918] To go.

[919] You didn't say anything to me. You just day before like, oh yeah, I'm not here tomorrow.

[920] You're on your own.

[921] Good luck getting all of your shit together good luck with your tour Laffy Chimpy Boy And then you took off And you don't need, who is this person I've never even heard her name before Laffy Chimpy Boy No, Anais, who's Anais?

[922] I don't even know her, who's she?

[923] Anais is a friend of mine.

[924] So what, you've got everything.

[925] Oh God, you have so many friends.

[926] I am real popular.

[927] I know, but sometimes, I think you throw around the term friend a little loosely because you're just like, oh yeah, she's my friend, I got to go.

[928] to London.

[929] Did you really have to go?

[930] You sound very jealous right now.

[931] I mean...

[932] Do you think you made the right call?

[933] Yes.

[934] I don't regret it even for a second.

[935] I, uh, yeah, I do.

[936] You should not be a lot.

[937] So what I really did was you like having riffs where you make fun of how terrible I am at my job.

[938] So I just stepped away from that for a few days.

[939] So if you're asking me, hey, did you miss me making fun of you incessantly?

[940] for a few days so you could go to London for a wedding but yeah it wasn't a hard decision to make at all okay quick question you left left me in the lurch but then you said that you were going to be back for the next the show at the start of the next part of the leg which was in Chicago uh huh were you there in time to go with us to Chicago no that's right you weren't what happened there my flight got canceled Did you leave a little buffer there for that flight back So you could get back to your important job No, I wanted to maximize my time in London So I booked the flight for the morning of the show You booked the flight in London For the morning of my show in Chicago That you were supposed to be at And then, oops, that didn't work out You're on your own again, chimpie boy But in my defense, do you make fun of me a lot?

[941] I do.

[942] I'm good at it.

[943] It might be the thing I'm best at.

[944] Now, listen, let's make sure that we're honest here.

[945] Do you make fun of me a lot?

[946] Yes, I do.

[947] It's what I'm best at.

[948] I think we are both.

[949] I think in each other, we have found the person, isn't it crazy that the person you're best making fun of in the world is Conan O 'Brien?

[950] And the person I'm best making fun of in the world is Sonoma -Sessian.

[951] And then we happen to meet.

[952] Yes.

[953] And we happen to work together?

[954] It's destiny.

[955] This is like Lenin meeting McCartney.

[956] It's magical.

[957] I don't understand that reference.

[958] at all, I'm sorry.

[959] They were singers long before there were, you know, apps and stuff.

[960] Oh, that led it in McCarthy.

[961] McCartney.

[962] Wait, did you think I was talking about Vladimir Lennon and Joe McCarthy?

[963] Yes, I did.

[964] You know what?

[965] You're like, you're like, you're like, I'm Vladimir Lennon and you are red baiting, red baiting Cami Hunter, Joe McCarthy.

[966] It's actually perfect.

[967] It's a perfect analogy.

[968] We are the perfect analogy.

[969] McCarthy and I was like, Lenin and McCar, I don't understand that relationship at all.

[970] Oh my God.

[971] I, this is great.

[972] I actually think we're perfect as, you know what, let's leave it that way.

[973] Vladimir Lenin and Joseph McCarthy.

[974] That's what we are.

[975] Yeah.

[976] It's good.

[977] So one of us has a stroke at a pretty young age and the other one dies of alcoholism.

[978] I'm happy.

[979] You're going to beat the stroke one.

[980] Yeah.

[981] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend with Sonamov Sessian and Conan O 'Brien as himself.

[982] Produced by me, Matt Gourley.

[983] Executive produced by Adam Sacks and Jeff Ross at Team Coco and Colin Anderson and Chris Bannon at Earwolf.

[984] Special thanks to Jack White and the White Stripes for the theme song.

[985] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.

[986] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review featured on a future episode.

[987] Got a question for Conan?

[988] call the Team Coco hotline at 323 -451 -2821 and leave a message.

[989] It too could be featured on a future episode.

[990] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, or wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.

[991] This has been a Team Coco production in association with Earwolf.