Safety + Coping Strategies for Leaving Abusive Relationships

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and could be triggering to some.

[11] Please use discretion when listening.

[12] Hello, I'm extremely excited about today's bonus episode.

[13] Since the start of something was wrong, I have received many messages from listeners who are currently working towards leaving an abusive relationship or that are debating on how best to do so.

[14] in today's episode i interview isaac smith a sacramento based holistic psychotherapist and nutritional therapy practitioner to discuss why leaving abusive relationships is important the cycle of domestic abuse creating a safety plan resources available to all economic classes and how others can best support those in an abusive relationship i truly believe this information is invaluable and i am so thankful to Isaac for taking the time to share this knowledge with us.

[15] All of the resources mentioned in this episode will be found in the show notes.

[16] Please consider sharing this episode with your friends and family, as it can truly save lives.

[17] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is, something was wrong.

[18] You think you know me, you don't know me will.

[19] I don't.

[20] Think you know me, you don't know me well.

[21] I sat down with Isaac this past Sunday, July 14th, 2019.

[22] You may hear the world's cutest baby in the background laughing in the distance at times.

[23] Not to worry, that's just Isaac's adorable baby playing with their mama.

[24] Yeah, so my name's Isaac Smith.

[25] I'm a licensed clinical social worker.

[26] I'm a holistic psychotherapist that I work in private practice.

[27] I work with people here in the Sacramento area, as well as online.

[28] If you live in California, I can do one -on -one therapy online.

[29] How did you get interested in this field of work?

[30] When I started graduate school, I really wasn't planning on becoming a therapist.

[31] That sort of passion developed for me over time and was really impacted by the agencies where I worked at.

[32] So I was put into a couple different counseling roles and just kind of getting to sit across from people and watching them, you know, struggle and grow was really impactful for me in my own life because it made me kind of address things that were going on for myself and it was really empowering for me. And I got to learn a lot from the people that I was sitting across from.

[33] And I view that space really sacredly because I think it takes a lot of guts for people to show up for therapy and a lot of courage.

[34] It's a really anxiety -provoking situation a lot of the times.

[35] like myself, even going through, you know, quote unquote, therapy school, a lot of the times when I would show up to see my therapist, even with that background, you know, I wouldn't have anxiety.

[36] So, yeah, that's kind of how I got in.

[37] That passion sort of developed for me. And I really just enjoy it.

[38] And I feel really blessed and honored that, you know, people trust me to share that space with them.

[39] So the cycle of abuse, there's four different stages to it.

[40] Now, there are some people to argue out there that there's a lot more complex stages.

[41] But for most people, if there's usually four stages, so there's this tension building stage, there's this like acting out stage, a honeymoon or reconciliation phase or stage, and then this calm stage.

[42] Okay.

[43] So in that tension stage, the stress kind of starts to gradually build.

[44] The abuser might feel threatened.

[45] Maybe they don't think that they're getting the attention that they deserve from you.

[46] There's some communication breakdown.

[47] You might start walking on eggshells because you don't want to upset them and then take on this sort of nurturing role that often happens and become maybe very agreeable, those types of things.

[48] Then there's that acting out stage where, you know, any type of the abuse can occur.

[49] You know, the physical, sexual, emotional, emotional, financial abuse, threats.

[50] After that, there is, what we call the honeymoon stage.

[51] So this is where that abuser apologizes.

[52] Maybe they beg forgiveness.

[53] They say, honey, baby, sweetheart, I'm never going to do this again.

[54] Gifts, maybe.

[55] Gifts, yes.

[56] They maybe blame the victim.

[57] Like, well, you got me really upset.

[58] I don't normally act that way, but like you, you really made me mad.

[59] And that's why I acted this way.

[60] Or they mean me even deny that, like the gaslighting, oh, no, that didn't happen like that.

[61] Like, I barely touched you.

[62] That's not really what I meant.

[63] And there's a difference between somebody saying sorry and then taking responsibility to really try to make sure that, you know, the things that were said that were maybe mean aren't said again, right?

[64] Let's face it, when you're in a relationship with someone that you love, even the best relationships, you're going to maybe be a knucklehead sometimes and like be short or curt or say something that you shouldn't say to your partner.

[65] That's different than the abuse that I'm talking about, okay?

[66] We can be abusive to the people that we love, but we take healthy people.

[67] that are in healthy relationships take ownership and say, look, I'm really sorry that I said what I said to you.

[68] I'm going to really try to work on that.

[69] Or they're going to come up with a plan like when they're both getting angry, like say somebody has a short fuse, that we're going to take a time out so that we don't get to that point where we're calling, name calling and stuff like that.

[70] So during this honeymoon stage, again, they could probably be minimizing, denying that the abuse even happened.

[71] And then there's this calm stage.

[72] So the tension, will start to build again.

[73] So that abuse either stops altogether, slows down.

[74] The promises that are made in that previous stage are not met.

[75] Like you mentioned, the gift giving.

[76] This is where some of the gift giving can happen.

[77] The victim might be thinking, you know, hey, this is not going to happen again.

[78] They said maybe even point to some progress that they made this kind of thing.

[79] But again, because it's a cycle, so whatever happens after the calm is then that tension, going into that acting out, then the honeymoon, then the calm, it just goes over and over and over.

[80] So that's what we mean when we talk about the cycle of abuse.

[81] I'm assuming that the time between those stages can be very different depending on the relationship.

[82] Yes.

[83] That could be years.

[84] Yes, totally.

[85] Yeah, every relationship is different.

[86] Sometimes it can happen really quickly and again, and then other times it can happen over, you know, like you said, months or years.

[87] And this is where sometimes people minimize that, like, oh, you know, it doesn't happen all the time.

[88] You know, he just blows up, goes into this rage.

[89] It's happened like twice a year.

[90] So it's okay.

[91] How can we educate people on leaving as safely as possible and, like, what partners can they take?

[92] So most of the time, people don't just leave abusive relationships impulsively.

[93] It's something that they're kind of thinking about.

[94] know, if your life is at risk, like, that's a completely different story.

[95] Like, get the hell out as fast as you can.

[96] But I think there's a lot of value in planning ahead.

[97] You know, I think also this might be a good time to talk about, like, why people stay.

[98] I think it's for a number of reasons.

[99] They might have some fear that the abuser might, you know, hurt them or their kids.

[100] And I that that's for good cause because some of the statistics show that about 70 % of the domestic violence that happens after the victims left.

[101] Sometimes that fears about like what are others going to think about me, who I am.

[102] I think some of the other reasons that they stay is that they kind of hope that this person will change.

[103] You know, maybe they're like, oh, well, this, he only lashes out, you know, a few times a year.

[104] I think that says a lot about a person, right?

[105] They hope that this person will change.

[106] And they love people.

[107] You're in a relationship because you love someone.

[108] So I think that's another reason why people decide to stay in relationships that are not good for them.

[109] They might try to convince themselves or sometimes others.

[110] Like, you know, if I can just love him or her enough, you know, they're going to get better.

[111] They might even point to progress that their abuser has made or to some of their positive qualities.

[112] Maybe their abuser is a really good provider or successful or they've been dependable.

[113] So they ignore maybe some of those red flags or minimize them.

[114] And it's really invalidating of where, of themselves, actually.

[115] And especially in the beginning.

[116] So they hope for this change, right?

[117] And I think that people sometimes put themselves into that rescuer rule, believing that they can kind of fix their abuser.

[118] I think that this comes from a good place, but it's, it's imbalanced.

[119] If there was a person who was struggling with alcohol abuser, they will have to want to make those change.

[120] Nobody can force that on them.

[121] So you can't love somebody enough to make them change.

[122] They have to take responsibility for their own bullshit.

[123] So that's the only way forward.

[124] And it's not your job to fix somebody else or even to hang in there because of the other good qualities if you're being abused or your children are suffering abuse.

[125] I think another reason why people stay in those relationships is maybe they block out some of the abuse.

[126] This dissociation is a big symptom of post -traumatic stress disorder, PTSD.

[127] So people, our bodies are really designed to protect ourselves.

[128] So we can block out a lot to kind of get through things.

[129] Another really great thing to remember is when you get together with someone, your reward system in your brain is being targeted.

[130] So it's kind of like with drugs and alcohol, again, borrowing from that.

[131] Like dopamine's firing.

[132] So, you know, we call it.

[133] call that that honeymoon stage where you feel like, oh, this person's amazing, man, they're whining me, they're dining me. We have everything in common, right?

[134] So when you leave a relationship, that same part of your brain gets reactivated to try to keep you there.

[135] So this is why people maybe try to leave and then come back and try to leave and come back because your brain is really trying to make that happen.

[136] Can you walk me through what a safety plan is and what that entails?

[137] There's a really great interactive safety plan tool on love is respect .org.

[138] So it will help you prepare.

[139] And I really like it because it asks you all the questions and you just go through each page and fill it in.

[140] But a safety plan is really about the when, the where, the what, the who and the how.

[141] So the when would be, you know, when is the best time to leave.

[142] Is it going to be when your partner's not there?

[143] Is it going to be in the middle of the night?

[144] Is it going to be when they're out of town?

[145] you know, these types of things, where, you know, where are you going to go?

[146] Are you going to go to a shelter?

[147] Is there a family or a friend that you're going to go to when you leave?

[148] What do I need to bring with me?

[149] Well, the really important things would be, you know, if there's any medicines that you need for you or your kiddos, you know, birth certificates, passports, immigration papers, anything that's really important for you to have that you're not going to have to go back.

[150] Because once you leave, it's radio silence.

[151] You know, if you've decided, I, need to leave this relationship, block them on social media, change all your passwords, do not contact them for whatever reason.

[152] The who, who's going to be there to support you?

[153] Who are you going to tell about your plan?

[154] These types of things.

[155] And then how?

[156] Are you going to get in your car and go somewhere?

[157] Are you going to have somebody pick you up?

[158] These are the types of things that you're going to find out when you create a safety plan.

[159] It's actually about kind of helping you cope ahead because you're going to be running on that fight or flight mode and it'll be hard to shoot from the hip when you're in that state.

[160] So having this kind of thought out ahead of time can actually have this anxiolytic effect, meaning reduce some of your anxiety about a situation that's going to produce anxiety and help you really prepare on what to do next.

[161] This is where it's good to first like reconnect with your community or reestablish.

[162] I think that this is often one of the most crucial first steps because abusers usually try to isolate you from friends and family and maybe there's a fear that's getting in the way of you reaching out to some of those people but most of the time they want to hear and are happy to hear from you because you're going to need this kind of positive support and these people in your corner when you're thinking about leaving so be honest with the people who have loved you been there for you like you know your best and and worst about what's been going on.

[163] Abusers try to convince you, hey, I'm all you've got.

[164] Like, without me, your life's going to be shit.

[165] You know, you're not going to find anyone better than me. Your friends and family don't really love you the way that I do.

[166] So get connected to your friends and family to maybe groups.

[167] How do you think we can do better as a community to support those that are in abusive relationships?

[168] So when you decide, hey, I need to get out of this relationship, this person is abusive, this is not good for my own health, mental health, my kids, that kind of thing, that's a very empowered choice.

[169] But choosing to leave an abuser is not about whether a person is strong enough or not.

[170] There are plenty of strong people that end up suffering from abuse.

[171] And this kind of talk and thinking, the whole, like it's, well, it's their choice to say, bullshit, really puts the blame on the victim and is really invalidating, can be abusive in and of itself.

[172] And it can be actually a major barrier to people leaving abusive relationships because it inadvertently minimizes the abuse and creates this unnecessary shame and guilt when there's already heaps of it present.

[173] So people don't need more of shame and guilt, something that their abuser has worked really hard to produce in them, right?

[174] To keep them around.

[175] Before and after you leave, maybe even especially after, it's really important to be compassionate with your yourself.

[176] You know, that inner critic, which has most definitely become louder and louder, thanks to your abuser, will show up.

[177] And it's normal during this time to kind of wonder if you have made the right choice.

[178] Lots of people that I've worked with who've suffered abuse tell me things like, you know, did I make all of this up?

[179] Am I actually crazy like I've been told over and over?

[180] And these kinds of thoughts are to be expected.

[181] It's really par for the course.

[182] While they're normal, it's best to see them for what they are, and there are those reverberations from living with someone that's abusive.

[183] I'm Dan Taberski.

[184] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[185] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[186] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[187] She's like, I can't.

[188] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[189] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[190] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down.

[191] down low.

[192] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[193] Well, you were holding something back.

[194] Intentionally.

[195] Yeah, yeah.

[196] Well, yeah.

[197] No, it's hysteria.

[198] It's all in your head.

[199] It's not physical.

[200] You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[201] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[202] Or is it something else entirely?

[203] Something's wrong here.

[204] Something's not right.

[205] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[206] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[207] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[208] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

[209] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[210] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[211] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[212] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[213] What happens next?

[214] Depends on who you ask.

[215] Was it a crime of passion?

[216] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[217] This was clearly an intentional act.

[218] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[219] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[220] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[221] Everyone had an opinion.

[222] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[223] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[224] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[225] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[226] Join Wondery Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[227] Can you talk about what resources are out there in the community?

[228] that would be little to no cost to people in case they don't have health insurance.

[229] The National Domestic Violence Hotline, which you can find at the hotline .org, there's legal resources at atwomen'slaw .org.

[230] You can find shelters on domestic shelters .org.

[231] And then if you do a simple kind of Google search around like shelters or resources for domestic violence near me, lots of stuff will probably populate.

[232] If you're looking for a therapist too, sites like psychology today or good therapy would be a place to find counseling and you can actually search for therapists who maybe specialize in abuse and those kinds of things.

[233] It might be a good idea, for instance, to explore some of the legal stuff when you're making that safety plan and planning ahead.

[234] Like, it's probably a great idea to get a restraining order because it's now a document showing, hey, person has been abusive and it protects you.

[235] from them coming around.

[236] One of the things that I have heard over and over, this strong feeling that children will be better off with two parents and that that is a reason to stay an abusive relationship because it seems like there is sort of this idea that a divorce would negatively affect children more so than them being around this abusive, volatile relationship.

[237] Children are very tuned in a lot more than we even think.

[238] And, you know, there's a lot of talk about children being resilient.

[239] That's true in one sense, but it's also children often lack the language to be able to speak up for themselves.

[240] So you don't want to normalize that this is what a relationship, a good relationship looks like.

[241] Any child is going to be better off with having a parent who loves them and supports them and encourages them a solo parent than they are, going to be having one parent like that and somebody that is extremely abusive.

[242] One thing that I've learned is it's important to know that you can like love that person who's abusing you and but it's hard to reconcile I think because we sort of want to bucket people as good or bad or safe or unsafe and abusers can definitely be both.

[243] Absolutely.

[244] I think that's a super good point.

[245] Drawing from addiction.

[246] When you break up with someone that is abusive, of it's it's human nature to kind of look back and try to remember the good times but but what about this we had so much fun that right it's the same thing for people that decide drugs and alcohol are not for me because they create all this havoc in my life they might have had some really great times using that drug or drinking alcohol um and there might have been some fun times there right and it's also created a lot of problems for them so those things don't have one doesn't have to be true and the other one false your abuser could have some positive qualities that you even admire and they can be in an abusive asshole you should get the hell away from and I think we have that tendency to to sort of have that all or nothing thinking and that whole idea of like an abuser looks like this emotions are really there to protect you that's why we have them people like label oh this is a good emotion and this is a bad emotion like being angry is you know bad and being happy is good and life's all about being happy but think about this if you were a zebra and you were strolling on down to that watering hole and it's a hot day you're getting a cool drink of water and as you're getting that drink of water through the air you smell a lion the emotion that you're going to feel most likely is fear and fear is going to motivate you to take action you're going to get the hell out of there as fast as you can it's important that you increase your ability to listen and observe what your emotions are trying to say before trying to get rid of them so quickly they're there to protect you if you have a friend that you suspect is in an abusive relationship what what can we do if we're feeling that way about somebody we know like how can we support them as a friend how could we broach that topic with them that's a really great question and it's it's it's a delicate dance too think it's about the way that you approach it like hey this is what you need to do your life like this person's terrible for you they're probably going to shut down and again the abuser has worked to isolate them and give them this idea like family's whacked your friends are whack you can't trust them it's being there for someone and just saying like you know hey like i don't know what if anything's going on or not like i love you and care about you and i noticed a couple things like this or that you know it could i could i could be totally reading it but i just thought i'd ask and if nothing's going on great and if it is I'll be here to support you in any way I can making yourself an ally which can be a hard thing to do sometimes when you see that person that you love being with somebody that doesn't treat them the way you think that that person should be treated and you can always normalize it meaning like you can say like hey I might not say this right or I don't even know how to talk to you about this I'm just concerned about you and I'm going to be be there for you and this person.

[247] What are the things to look for when you have maybe left an abusive relationship and now you are thinking that you're in the right place where you want to start looking for a partner?

[248] In A .A., Alcoholics Anonymous, they have like this general rule of which I think that there's some wisdom in like, hey, when you're first getting sober, probably not the best time to get into a relationship.

[249] Weird.

[250] And I think that too.

[251] It's not impossible.

[252] um sometimes it can be a really great thing you know i'm not a letter of the law guy you know my spirit of the law i think there's things that are wise to listen to and pay attention to but you want to give your time space to get connected to you you have been in a relationship where you told that you're told either directly or indirectly that you're not important and your thoughts and feelings are not important and what you think is you know it's just because you're too sensitive or too crazy or whatever it is or bullshit so you need to get to the space where you're you you feel like you know who you are again.

[253] And also, if you don't, don't make it mean too much.

[254] You have to accept where you're at.

[255] It's the only way to move forward.

[256] It might not be the space that you want to be in, right?

[257] But it's where you're at.

[258] And then you can make more steps going forward.

[259] So I would say, learn what it feels like to be alone.

[260] Be alone with yourself before you jump into a relationship again.

[261] And then take it slow.

[262] Watch, listen, observe, play.

[263] Don't be dropping all your intimate knowledge about your history with somebody on the first date.

[264] Again, why I'm saying to give yourself space to is because when you can get reconnected to your gut and listen to your intuition, you're going to be able to be more of a curious observer when maybe you notice something that is a red flag or when it's not really a red flag, your past is showing up.

[265] Still great to observe and, like, listen and try to watch and see what it is, that will be easier if you know that you can trust your gut again.

[266] If you could speak to somebody who's listening to this and maybe they're debating, leaving an abusive relationship, a last few thoughts on, like, the advice you would give them in making the decision.

[267] If you think that you're in an abusive relationship, it's probably 99 % chance that you're in one.

[268] And then also, you're going to be anxious.

[269] you're going to be scared you're going to be depressed you're going to have like a lot of competing emotions about this and that's okay and that doesn't mean that you shouldn't listen to that gut it's it's not going to be something you're completely comfortable with doing we often like wait we try to think like what's the right time how far can I push myself right I again I think it's good to have a plan about how you're going to do it because that will increase the likelihood that you're going to do it.

[270] But your emotions are going to be all over the place and you're going to be running on adrenaline.

[271] Don't wait for you to feel the right way.

[272] Get support.

[273] If you think that you're in an abusive relationship, educate yourself.

[274] Go get support if you can.

[275] Like I said, don't wait until after.

[276] Start now with getting some of the support that you need to like put people in your corner again.

[277] That should be the first step.

[278] Reconnecting with your community.

[279] Thank you so much.

[280] Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah.

[281] So you're going to be at the live event.

[282] Yes.

[283] Are you excited?

[284] I am excited and terrified.

[285] But I think it'll be a one -on -one guy.

[286] Yeah, whatever.

[287] Whatever.

[288] But I just wanted to throw it out there to listeners that you're going to be there.

[289] And if they have questions, they can pre -submit questions and even those who aren't able to attend the event.

[290] So then we can just put you on the spot and make you really uncomfortable.

[291] Sounds good.

[292] Sounds great.

[293] Where can people find you?

[294] Yeah.

[295] So if people want to get connected with me, you can go to www.

[296] Whole Wellness Therapy .com.

[297] And you can learn more about me there.

[298] There's also some articles on, you know, anxiety, depression, addiction, and also has links to my social media.

[299] Thank you so much.

[300] Thanks for having me. I am so excited to announce that we will be having our first ever something was wrong live.

[301] This will be a podcast recording and meet and greet in Sacramento.

[302] This will be an intimate live podcast recording giving a behind -the -scenes look, Q &A, and discussion of all things something was wrong.

[303] Sarah, Alyssa, and myself will take the stage alongside a panel of experts in the fields of abuse and mental health.

[304] We couldn't be more excited and we hope to see you there.

[305] So grab your weird podcast friend and join us at B Street Theater in Midtown, Sacramento.

[306] on Saturday, August 24th, from 7 to 9 p .m. Head to Something Was Wrong .com slash events.

[307] Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese.

[308] All of the music today is by the band Gladrags, hear their newest album, Wonder Under, on iTunes.

[309] Thank you to Isaac Smith for participating in this episode.

[310] Please check out his links available as well in the show notes.

[311] Follow the hashtag, Something Was Wrong, Pod.

[312] on Instagram to stay up to date on any announcements.

[313] You can now purchase something was wrong merch at S -W -W -W -Threadless .com.

[314] I also have stickers for purchase available on my Instagram.

[315] You can find me at Looky Boo.

[316] L -O -O -K -I -E -B -O -O.

[317] It's a long story.

[318] Don't ask.

[319] If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 -7 -2 -3.

[320] Thank you so much for listening and take care.

[321] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

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[324] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[325] I'm Sachi Cole.

[326] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[327] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once a facade falls away.

[328] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills and active.

[329] lawsuit filed by Larry King and no real product to push.

[330] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[331] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judici, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[332] Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[333] You can listen to scampluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.