#1591 - Jordan Burroughs

[0] podcast checking out the Joe Rogan experience train by day Joe Rogan podcast by night all day Jordan pleasure to meet you man yeah good to meet you really really pleasure to meet you I'm a big fan I think what you're doing first of all I think it's amazing that no one's talked to you into doing MMA is incredible I've been close how close mostly the lady outside my wife Lauren really is the one that's talked to me out of it really yeah bro like when I graduated from college in 2011 University of Nebraska.

[1] Wrestling was still on the brink of, if it was in its infancy of marketing and branding and really making it a professional career.

[2] So MMA was the new kid on the block and it was growing and expanding and we had a lot of our guys transitioning in, Henry Sohudo, Ben Askeran, Daniel Cormier.

[3] And so I really thought about it.

[4] I was like, okay, I'm going to wrestle in the Olympics in London 2012, win the gold, and then I'm going to make the transition to MMA.

[5] I'll be 25 years old.

[6] I'll have plenty of time.

[7] and then I met Lauren.

[8] And she's like, listen, you're doing well in the sport.

[9] Stay here.

[10] You're comfortable.

[11] It's a different sport, it's a different sport, MMA, in comparison to wrestling.

[12] But it's a good thing.

[13] It is a different sport, and it also has a lot more head trauma.

[14] And there's a lot of things to consider.

[15] 100%.

[16] That's what I think about all the time.

[17] Listen, I think about going to MMA until I see a guy like platinum Mike Perry get his whole thing split, nose crooked.

[18] I'm like eh I'm good it's like in wrestling you lose you get taken down pushed out you know you get pinned in fighting you lose you get something broken choked out tap you know it's unconscious it's a very very different sport wrestling it's much it's a you score as many points as possible with doing the least damage as possible and mMA I feel like it's it's different it's a shame that there's not more attention put on the professional like like like At one point in time, professional wrestling was actual wrestling.

[19] Yeah, yeah.

[20] It wasn't like WW Entertainment.

[21] It was professional wrestling, and it was done for...

[22] Why can't they do that?

[23] I know they tried to do that a few years back.

[24] There was an organization, I think...

[25] Was it Kevin Jackson that was doing it?

[26] Yeah, yeah.

[27] Yeah, he was doing something where he was doing a professional wrestling organization, but it just didn't catch on for some reason.

[28] But yet, golf is on TV.

[29] For sure.

[30] Baseball and all these things that are...

[31] Bags, bro.

[32] Cornhole.

[33] I was watching the cornhole championships on ESPN the other day.

[34] I'm like, bro, this is wild.

[35] Like, cornhole is on ESPN more often than wrestling.

[36] But isn't that just now because of there's no crowds and COVID and there's all the weirdness and there's a lot of shit that's on.

[37] Like if you follow SportsCenter on Instagram, like half the shit they do is like people in their backyard like doing crazy dunks and stuff.

[38] I think the invention of the internet has definitely changed the game for our sport.

[39] we are in an epic time where anyone can be famous.

[40] All you need is an iPhone.

[41] Cell phone, period.

[42] Like, if you can film footage and upload it, and it's funny, it's inventive, it's disruptive, like you have an audience and people are going to follow it.

[43] So people that are going viral now and becoming superstars aren't even the most particularly talented people in society.

[44] They just have a niche and they know how to stay consistent with it.

[45] Well, sometimes it doesn't even make sense.

[46] Like something just catches.

[47] Like, remember that dude?

[48] that was on the skateboard doing Fleetwood Mac.

[49] With the cranberry juice.

[50] Just for whatever reason, everybody's like, that guy looks like he's having fun.

[51] Get this man a truck.

[52] Get him more cranberry juice.

[53] And now he's on, I look, he's always on podcast.

[54] He's all over the place.

[55] He bought a house, he bought a car.

[56] I mean, it's really incredible.

[57] But that's the beauty of it.

[58] Yeah.

[59] That's the beauty of it is it gives people an opportunity.

[60] There it is right there.

[61] Yeah, so it was a professional wrestling league that they established.

[62] And, you know, when people reference what we do, I call it Olympic wrestling.

[63] Honestly, I don't even call it professional.

[64] professional wrestling, because that is kind of an ode to the WWE and old -time WWF.

[65] So it's a unique thing that we had at this time.

[66] This is Tommy Rollins, Daniel Cormier, both extremely competitive, both great wrestlers.

[67] Oklahoma State, Ohio State.

[68] This probably was around 04, 05 -ish.

[69] So I was still in high school.

[70] Real pro wrestling, that's right.

[71] So they had different cities across the country that had their own teams.

[72] It was almost like XFL -esque.

[73] It kind of had that vibe.

[74] So it's Rulon Gardner.

[75] Yeah, Rulon Gardner.

[76] And who's the...

[77] Tim Johnson.

[78] In the middle, he works for the Big Ten Network and also for ESPN.

[79] He does commentary for the NCAA championships yearly.

[80] And then the last guy is Nate Carr, who was a NCAA world medalist.

[81] And Rulon is another guy that made the transition.

[82] He made the transition in MMA.

[83] Did he?

[84] I didn't know that.

[85] Yeah, yeah.

[86] He fought a bunch of times over in Japan.

[87] And actually, I think what stopped him was he lost a toe.

[88] in a frostbite accident he's a former cornhusker is he went to the same university and i got a chance to kind of spend some time with rulon but he was out when i was kind of transitioning in and so he's an interesting cat and he is one of those guys that's like shrouded in this mystery but there's so many like epic stories about who he was what he's done how much he's eaten he's a gorilla dude massive massive man um and then obviously him beating korella and we're seeing the size of that guy which is pretty much considered the most legendary victory in wrestling history.

[89] That's a weird victory, right?

[90] Because it's like Correllen, all he did was get Corralin to break his grip.

[91] Yeah.

[92] And it was a new rule, right?

[93] The rules are evolving all the time in wrestling.

[94] So it's one of those rule changes that year in particular, which wasn't, it didn't translate well to the average fan.

[95] So like the toughest thing about wrestling is that the rules change so often that a non -examination.

[96] traditional wrestling fan can't really keep up you watch a football game you know listen you put the ball into the end zone it's six points extra point a point field goal three points right safety two you watch basketball you know if you're behind this arc it's three points if you're within it's two points and wrestling there's so many different subjective rule sets that you're like okay well if you unlock your hands here or if this guy gets pushed out of bounds it's a point but if you shove him out of bounds it's no points if he's grounded it's no points but if his knees off the mat then it's a point.

[97] So there's so many different like little nuances in the sport that make it difficult to follow.

[98] And even if you're within it, like sometimes you have to address what the rule set is before you even compete in the tournament.

[99] There are times we're meeting with, uh, administration and referees before we compete at the Olympics world championships just so we can stay current on the rule set for that year because it's just that much always evolving, always evolving.

[100] Is that something that plays in your head while you're actually competing?

[101] Do you, do you have to think like, oh, wait a minute.

[102] What is, what is, what's that?

[103] the rule for this place?

[104] You know, that's a good question.

[105] I think in the heat of the moment, sometimes, I imagine you've seen it a lot in MMA, whether it's a guy, you know, hitting someone in the back of the head or, you know, kicking them when they're down on a knee, like all these little things that when you're in the battle and you're fired up and you're trying to put this man out, like you don't even think about the rule set.

[106] You just, you know, it has to be programmed.

[107] I think experience just multiple times within this position, there's a certain level of savviness and mental toughness that you have to have to get there they've had a hard time getting people to watch any kind of grappling that don't grapple i think that's that's a part there's a problem with jiu jitsu and one of the things they did with jiu jitsu they've come up with this new thing called combat jiu jiu jitsu came up with it okay it's basically jiu jitsu with slapping it's kind of fucking crazy what yeah man it's crazy i haven't seen it it's crazy like in the face yeah yeah or elsewhere the the thing is like in no you can punch to the body and and you slap to the face.

[108] The thing is with jiu -jitsu positions, there's a lot of unrealistic positions when it comes to MMA, where, like, guys are hanging on an ankle and the guy's right over him, and he could just start blast him in the face.

[109] There's the thing about leg lockers are much more sophisticated now than they were back in the day.

[110] But early in the UFC, you saw some cases where guys would go for leg locks, and see, this is combat jiu -jitsu.

[111] So you think...

[112] Is that the...

[113] Come on, bro.

[114] Stop.

[115] But it works.

[116] It looks like two siblings fighting over the last Rice Krispy tree.

[117] That's kind of a crazy.

[118] That's Wagner Rocha, who's fought MMA before, and he's a beast.

[119] Is he tough?

[120] Yeah, he's a bad motherfucker.

[121] He's a bad motherfucker.

[122] And he wound up winning the, I think he won the whole tournament, because he's got so much experience with strikes and jiu -jitsu as it is, and he's elite black belt.

[123] Like, would that really make you release your lot to have your arm potentially broken is getting slapped in the face.

[124] Like if I have my hands lock and I'm preventing the arm bar like with a slap in the face really make me like, ooh, I got to unlock, protect my face, bam, you're done.

[125] It's a good question.

[126] You never know where a person's brain is at, right?

[127] You know, sometimes dudes just give their arm up.

[128] Yeah.

[129] There's situations where guys give their arm up.

[130] And sometimes guys give their arm up in MMA too.

[131] When they're getting pounded on, you'll see guys reach up when someone's in the mount and you know that they're giving their arm up and then they get tapped.

[132] And, you know, I've talked to guys who actually told me that they did it.

[133] They just said, I just let him take my neck or I let him take my arm.

[134] But Wagner stopped, like, he's got like a, like a palm technique, too.

[135] It's not just like a open -handed, wow.

[136] He's just kind of going palm to the face.

[137] Well, he's a, like I said, he's a real MMA fighter, and he's, you know, he's an elite MMA fighter.

[138] Bro, but does this not look funny to you?

[139] It does look a little funny.

[140] Like, what is?

[141] It does look a little funny.

[142] I respect these dudes.

[143] This dude looks like an absolute monster, but the slats.

[144] Just laughing just reminds me of my sister and I back in middle school when my mom and dad were at work and we had a snow day.

[145] Yeah.

[146] And we would be fighting over the last sip of the two -liter Pepsi in the fridge.

[147] That was it right there.

[148] That's not slapping each other.

[149] If you use gloves, the thing about gloves is if they put the MMA gloves, gloves change a lot of positions.

[150] Like it's harder to get certain chokes because the gloves are thick and they get in the way.

[151] You can't get them under the chin as easy.

[152] Yeah.

[153] But that would probably be the most realistic.

[154] But the reason why they use slaps, it actually, there's a history that goes back to the original MMA, like when they were first starting to do MMA tournaments.

[155] Yeah.

[156] One of them, one of the really early ones was called Pancras.

[157] It was in Japan.

[158] And Boss Routin was the master at Pancras.

[159] And what Boss Rutan would do, he's got crazy, flexible hands, and he's an elite striker.

[160] So he would pull his hands, like, I don't know how the fuck he does it.

[161] But he can get his hands way back.

[162] He pulled him back himself.

[163] And he was basically throwing punches.

[164] He was basically going, boom, boom.

[165] And instead of everybody else was slapping, he was smashing dudes and caoing dudes with palm strikes.

[166] See if you can find some Boss Rutin, like Boss Routin versus Funaki.

[167] He caoed him with an uppercut, a palm strike uppercut.

[168] Yeah, because the thing about Celia this.

[169] Oh, yeah, that's it.

[170] There you go.

[171] Give me a rewind on that so you can see.

[172] Is this a Boss Rutan highlight?

[173] Yeah.

[174] Boss was smashing people over there.

[175] But again, he's an elite striker.

[176] so he's a guy who came from holland and you know they're like in the kickboxing world holland is so this was this is like early early 90s i'm interested in like the the apparel here right because it's got like a professional wrestling vibe right that was a bit of the problem because there was some some rigged fights see japan is famous for for having rigged fights they would do weird shit in the early days in particular.

[177] They would do weird shit where like you would seek it like I don't want to name names but some elite fighters were paid off to take dives and they'll admit it now.

[178] Like you see him like literally like pro wrestling a guy's going for a heel looking like oh no yeah okay I want to tap Of course but you can tell that it's fake so there was real fights and then there was also some bullshit and there was always a question about pancreas because some of them like when boss rootin's K -O and people well that's 100 % real well that's real that's real as fuck he's in pain right there yeah yeah that was tight that hamstring was yeah he gets his knee blown out you know what's interesting I feel like man that's crazy I feel like the Japanese love combat yes love combat yeah and so that's what makes us excited for the postponed Olympic Games right this summer Tokyo 2021 is wrestling is going to be one of the premier sports because of their love for combat sports there.

[179] So whether it's MMA, kickboxing, boxing itself, wrestling, judo, sumo.

[180] They love the sport.

[181] And so we're really excited about that opportunity.

[182] So that's going to be this summer.

[183] Do you want to do it with crowds?

[184] That's a good question.

[185] I don't know yet.

[186] So the Japanese prime minister made an announcement, public statement, saying, hey, listen, we're going to host the Olympics this summer no matter what.

[187] One of the interesting things about it is although it's happening in 21, they're still calling it Tokyo 2020.

[188] Oh, wow.

[189] I think they were saving face for all the marketing material that they already made that cost them billions of dollars right to change to zero to a one.

[190] Is that really worth $5 billion or whatever it costs?

[191] That's interesting.

[192] But it's going to be interesting how they figure it out because the Olympic Village is like a town.

[193] There's 10 ,000 coaches and athletes from every country on the face of the planet all put into a one mile radius on this Olympic campus.

[194] and there's just so much interaction engagement.

[195] I'm talking the cafeteria at the Olympic Games is five football fields long.

[196] They've got a McDonald's, like a full -sized McDonald's in the cafeteria in the Olympic Village.

[197] They've got foods from all different parts of the country.

[198] You've got an Italian station, a Japanese station, American station, you know, and a Pan -African station.

[199] They have, it's insane.

[200] and you have literally thousands of people swirling in at all times.

[201] It's 24 hours.

[202] How many people are in mine at the Apple Pie at all times?

[203] Bro, like, if you're coming from America, you can go down the street.

[204] There's a McDonald's within, you know, a mile of anybody while you're here stateside.

[205] But if you're coming from one of the smaller country, are you coming from Guinea -Bassau?

[206] Or you're coming from, I don't know, Qatar.

[207] Like, you're like, damn, McDonald's sounds pretty good.

[208] I don't get this at the crib.

[209] Let me go ahead, grab me a little quick couple of McChickens, a couple double cheeseburgers, put them in the room.

[210] But you would think that someone competing in the Olympics would want to fuel their body with the best possible food available?

[211] Some of them know they can't win.

[212] Like, you know, like everyone going to the Olympics isn't expecting to win a medal.

[213] Like 90, I say 90%, large, very large percentage of the competitors at the Olympic Games, it's a long shot for them to get on the podium.

[214] They're going with the expectation like, hey, listen, I'm representing my home country with pride.

[215] I am going to a country that I've never been before.

[216] Hopefully I can be on TV.

[217] My family will be watching me back home.

[218] The opening ceremonies is the best experience for them because they get to be in a full -packed arena around all the athletes that they've seen on TV.

[219] But they know that realistically, they're not going to win.

[220] So when that McDonald's is open 24 hours, they're like, let's go, bro.

[221] We're going here.

[222] Do they have to pay for it?

[223] Free.

[224] Oh, that's good.

[225] Everything's free.

[226] That's good.

[227] So it's an interesting perspective.

[228] be in the Olympic Village, it's a cool spot.

[229] It's got to be a wild experience to be there.

[230] It must feel surreal.

[231] It's wild.

[232] So they're really strict with the way that they administer athletes and people to get in.

[233] You have to have a guest list if you want to bring anyone in.

[234] They have to be approved seven days in advance.

[235] So let's say my wife, I'm like, hey, I want my wife to come into the Olympic Village, check out our living space, check out the free McDonald's.

[236] Then I have to put her on the list seven days in advance, and it has to be approved by the U .S. OPC.

[237] and then also, you know, the IOC.

[238] Wow.

[239] And so it's a very, it's a Brazilian athlete in the 2016.

[240] Bro, they're not planned, dog.

[241] I'm telling you, I'm telling you, Joe, like, they get it.

[242] After he was done.

[243] After he's done.

[244] Well, that makes sense.

[245] Well, he's taking that home with him.

[246] He's putting that all in his suitcase.

[247] He's going to go start him a little McDonald's of his own when he gets back to the crib.

[248] But it's, so when you get in the village, you have to, it's almost like going through TSA at an airport.

[249] You got to show them your badge.

[250] They scan it.

[251] You got to get all your bags checked and make sure that you're good to go.

[252] You don't have any, you know, thing lethal in your bags.

[253] You get inside and it's literally like an apartment complex, huge apartment complex.

[254] Look at that.

[255] McDonald's is the most popular restaurant.

[256] That's crazy.

[257] They're, listen.

[258] That's a crazy line.

[259] They're not getting salads and chicken selects.

[260] No. You know, they're getting cheeseburgers and McChickens and You're saying, but I listen, hey, whatever you need to do to be the fastest man in the world, do your thing.

[261] Well, I guess also, like when you're done, you probably just want to treat yourself.

[262] Yeah, for sure.

[263] You've probably been eating very strict for a long period of time.

[264] Yeah, crazy.

[265] That was my, when I won the gold in 2012, my first meal afterwards was McDonald's.

[266] Very first meal.

[267] What job?

[268] What job?

[269] I had double cheeseburger with a high sea orange to drink and a large fry.

[270] So crazy story.

[271] I'll tell you this story.

[272] So I win the Olympic gold.

[273] right after you win they take you back to what they have like a media house so it's got all of the publications from all over the world you've got AP Sports Illustrated NBC you know just pretty much everything and so you go back and you just bounce from room to room it's like okay we got out Michael's here we got Bob Costa's here we got you know Joe Rogan here and so you go you show your medal you tell them about your experience where you're from who you are what you're going to do with all this money and fame that you've just won and then so as soon as you're usher out of there, you competed at 8 o 'clock and you don't get out of there to close to midnight.

[274] So by the time it's midnight and London, really the only thing open is McDonald's, right?

[275] So I'm still in my podium outfit.

[276] Like literally what I wore on the podium, I'm still in it at midnight.

[277] And so we go down to like Piccadilly in London.

[278] And the only thing's open is in McDonald's.

[279] And so we went to like a club for a little bit.

[280] One of my sponsors at the time had like bottle service.

[281] They wanted to celebrate me. So we leave there.

[282] We go to McDonald's.

[283] I get inside and packed.

[284] Clubs just let out.

[285] Everyone's like hungry.

[286] They're hungover.

[287] They just got done for the night full of drinking.

[288] They're all in line.

[289] Lines crazy.

[290] I go into the McDonald's.

[291] I'm like, damn, I've been, it's long day.

[292] I wrestled all day long.

[293] I do not want to stand in line.

[294] I just want to see if I can work my way to the front.

[295] So I go and ask a guy.

[296] I'm like, bro, listen, I just wrestled all day at the Excel Center.

[297] I just won an Olympic gold.

[298] Like, you think I can get in front of you?

[299] And he's like, you didn't win an Olympic.

[300] What?

[301] And I'm like, bro, I won the Olympics.

[302] He's like, no, you didn't.

[303] I had my medal in my pocket.

[304] I had my gold medal in my pocket.

[305] So I pulled my gold medal out and show this guy.

[306] He's like, starts going nuts.

[307] Oh, my God.

[308] This guy.

[309] So he's yelling.

[310] Everyone, he's pushing people out of the way in this McDonald's.

[311] He's like, this guy just won Olympic gold medal.

[312] Let him to the front of the line.

[313] Let him to the front of the line.

[314] And so he's pushing people out of the way, gets me, like literally escorts me to the front of the line to get me my quarter pounder and my large fry.

[315] It was wild.

[316] That's the craziest cheeseburger fry story ever.

[317] Cool.

[318] It was, it was dope.

[319] It was awesome.

[320] That had to be very memorable.

[321] Yeah, it was fun.

[322] Wow.

[323] That's fun.

[324] Win in the gold medal.

[325] What, I mean, I know you've won the World Championship, what, four times?

[326] Four worlds won Olympics.

[327] But how much difference?

[328] Nothing like it.

[329] Olympics are the best.

[330] It's rare.

[331] It only happens every four years.

[332] It's a single day event, so you have to be your best on that single day, you only get one cycle to prepare for.

[333] So we think of our careers like cyclically where like in a, if you're an MMA fighter, you're like, okay, I can get an opportunity to fight for the belt as long as I continue to compete at a high level, like keep my brand awareness at a good place.

[334] But in wrestling, the pinnacle is the Olympic game.

[335] So no matter how many world championships you win, you want that Olympic gold.

[336] And the crazy thing is the worlds are harder than the Olympics.

[337] So the Olympics are a little more condensed in terms of the qualification process.

[338] So at Worlds, it's much easier to qualify.

[339] So you have 42 guys in your weight class or in your bracket at Worlds.

[340] You only have 16 at the Olympics.

[341] So in the World Championships, I won in 2015.

[342] I wrestled six matches.

[343] The Olympics, I won in 2012.

[344] I only had four matches.

[345] And so, and it's a random draw, too.

[346] So you could wrestle Russia first round, which would suck.

[347] or you could wrestle Puerto Rico first round, which would suck less.

[348] And so it's a really interesting experience the way these brackets are drawn.

[349] And I think that the Olympic Games has become so special because of everything surrounding it.

[350] You get more money, more notoriety, more recognition moving forward.

[351] Like winning the goal in 2012 catapulted me to where I am right now.

[352] Like when I'm recognized or announced in an event, it's always affiliated with that Olympic gold.

[353] Olympic gold medalist Jordan Burroughs.

[354] Like they always tell you whenever you step off the podium, you will forever be an Olympic gold medalist.

[355] You can't lose that.

[356] You can lose your belt.

[357] Right.

[358] You can never lose your gold.

[359] Right.

[360] It always comes home with me at the end of the day, no matter what I do moving forward.

[361] So that's pretty cool.

[362] That is an interesting perspective, right?

[363] Because if you're a fighter, you win the title and then you lose the title in your next fight, you're a former world champion.

[364] world chance but an Olympic gold medalist from 2012 is an Olympic gold medalist say yeah that's it's dope yeah you made it through you did it and that's it's it but then there's another guy who was it four years later yeah it's uh it's interesting it's got to be a crazy experience but the world championships being more difficult is the world championships held in a two day is it a two day event so they changed the format in 2018 wrestling used to be a single day You weigh in the day before, and then you'd wrestle all day.

[365] You start in the preliminaries, and then you wrestle all the way through to the finals.

[366] By the end of the day, five, six matches, you knew if you were a world champion, Olympic champion or not.

[367] Now they've made a transition where you weigh in the same day.

[368] Competition starts two hours after weigh -ins, and then it's a two -day event.

[369] You wrestle through the semifinals, and then finals and medal matches are the second day.

[370] Now, if you weigh in the same day, do you cut any weight?

[371] A ton.

[372] Like, so I wrestle at 74 kilos or 160.

[373] and this morning I weigh 183 right so that kind of gives you perspective as to where we are in terms of what my walking around weight is when I'm just chilling and getting ready for competition or if I'm actually wrestling at my competition way so when you were supposed to be wrestling in town um this this wrestling I'm going up away class would would that be that is 189 which I can't even get to oh okay because I'm too so I'm wrestling the guy that I'm wrestling is David Taylor wrestled at Penn State.

[374] He is a two -time NCAA champion.

[375] World champion at the weight class above me, 86 kilos or 189 pounds in 2018.

[376] So I'm the world champ at 163.

[377] He's the world champ at 189.

[378] That's a big gap.

[379] It's a big gap.

[380] And so there are only six Olympic weights at the Olympic Games, only six, right?

[381] So you've got 57 kilos or like 12.

[382] So you got 125, 143, 163, 189, 213, and then heavyweight.

[383] And so only six weight classes.

[384] And then in a world championship year, you have 10 weights.

[385] So they give you a little more flexibility.

[386] But the Olympic Games, they try to condense them.

[387] They're adding so many sports.

[388] Every single cycle, you've got golf and breakdegger.

[389] They're adding breakdancing to the Olympic Games in Paris, 2024.

[390] That's pretty crazy.

[391] But if they have rhythmic gymnastics, I don't see why they shouldn't have breakdancing.

[392] That's true.

[393] But at the expense of other sports like wrestling, where you only have six weights and a single athlete or a single representative from each country per weight class.

[394] Do me a favor.

[395] Go to dance elements on Instagram.

[396] I want to show you this dude that I just saw there yesterday.

[397] This is a dude.

[398] Is he sick?

[399] They're on another level.

[400] It's pretty dope, bro.

[401] It's like elite gymnasts now.

[402] I'm just a hater because it has kind of affected wrestling a little bit.

[403] It shouldn't affect wrestling.

[404] But I do agree with it.

[405] Not this gentleman.

[406] There's a guy in a red sweatsuit.

[407] See you can find him down there.

[408] There he is.

[409] That's it.

[410] Watch this guy.

[411] I mean, watch this.

[412] This dude is crazy.

[413] Damn.

[414] Look at this.

[415] I mean, he might as well be an elite gymnast.

[416] I mean, the way he's doing those back hand springs and shit, I mean, this guy's incredible.

[417] Look at this shit.

[418] Look at that.

[419] Of one hand.

[420] I mean, he's incredible.

[421] And then stopping perfect all to music.

[422] What is this dude's name, James?

[423] Amy?

[424] That's the one thing I can't deny.

[425] You got to...

[426] It looks like B -Boy Tata.

[427] Yeah.

[428] Yeah, he's nice with it.

[429] B -Boy Tata.

[430] You looks like he's from Jersey.

[431] Shout out to B -boy Tata.

[432] Oh, that's right.

[433] You're from Camden, right?

[434] Yeah, so I grew up South Jersey, Sicklerville, New Jersey, right outside of Philly.

[435] My hometown's 20 miles from Philadelphia.

[436] That's what?

[437] That's nuts, bro.

[438] Look at that.

[439] I have some friends that started out in breakdancing and then got into Jiu - My friend Richie Martinez and his brother, Gio.

[440] They probably transition well.

[441] Amazingly well.

[442] They're so fucking strong and so athletic.

[443] They can move so well.

[444] It's like gymnasts.

[445] Like gymnasts do well transitioning to Jiu -Soo as well.

[446] I guess if you have that perspective, right, it's very similar to rhythm the gymnastics.

[447] Yeah.

[448] A lot more.

[449] There's some goofy shit in the Olympics, man. But you can't get rid of wrestling.

[450] Wrestling is one of the original sports.

[451] It's literally one of the original Olympic sports.

[452] And that's what I love about wrestling.

[453] And I, and this.

[454] Here's been like my comparison to MMA for a long time, is I'm always weighing the pros and cons.

[455] Okay, wrestling is here, MMA's here.

[456] MMA has so many amazing things.

[457] I love the toughness aspect.

[458] My favorite sport outside of wrestling is boxing.

[459] I'm a big boxing fan.

[460] I love just the warrior element.

[461] I love how you come from the gutter, from the mud, and these dudes are just like gritty, warriors, precision.

[462] It's an art form.

[463] I look at MMA as an alternative to wrestling, right?

[464] And one of the things that I've seen, I've seen so many guys that I've trained alongside that have gone on to have immense success in MMA.

[465] So that's what always kind of pulls me. I'm like, damn, what guys?

[466] I've trained with, I've trained, been alongside Daniel.

[467] I've been alongside Marty or Kamaro Usman.

[468] I've been alongside Henry Suhudo.

[469] I've wrestled Justin Gaithy numerous occasions Mike Chandler Lance Palmer like all these guys I've wrestled these guys and I've seen but it's different right just because you're a great wrestler doesn't mean you're going to be a great fighter and just because you're an average wrestler doesn't mean you're going to be an average fighter I've seen guys who I thought were average wrestlers become great fighters and guys who I thought were tremendous wrestler can't fight their wet paper bag so some guys adapt quickly to to the striking aspects and some guys really struggle.

[470] There's some really strong grapplers that for whatever reason, they have terrible hand speed.

[471] Their hand speed's terrible, they don't have any power.

[472] It's very strange.

[473] Power's a weird thing.

[474] You either have it or you don't.

[475] One of the interesting things that I think about the transition is like in wrestling, if you're righty, usually you lead right leg.

[476] Yeah.

[477] But in fighting, right, if you're righty, you're going to lead left.

[478] That's true, but in boxing, they're actually training a lot of people opposite now.

[479] Yeah, like Oscar De La Jolla, he fought Southpaw, but he's a right -handed fighter.

[480] Huh.

[481] And there's a few, or was it opposite?

[482] Yeah, I think he was a left -handed fighter and he fought Orthodox.

[483] Do I La Jolla fight South Paul or Orthodox?

[484] I can't even remember now.

[485] But he let, like, Emmanuel Stewart started having guys do that.

[486] Because the idea would be one of the most important punches in boxing is your jab, and you should use the most dominant hand for the jabs.

[487] So there's a few fighters.

[488] So the, yeah.

[489] he's a converted south ball that's right so he was a left -handed fighter and they had him use his left hand forward and that way his power hand was his most dominant hand which was his front hand 40 jabs around it's a lot of work well that's the most important punch and boxing and so there's a lot like bruce lee believed in that as well there's a lot of people that think that maybe if a wrestler does fight that way with that right leg forward or wrestle that way rather they should fight that way as well Yeah, and I think the transition would be different.

[490] There would be a lot to learn, and that's part of the reason.

[491] I mean, there's so many reasons amongst others, but I'm the best in my field at wrestling.

[492] I'm one of the best wrestlers in the world.

[493] It is a completely different transition and learning curve to getting to MMA, right?

[494] You've got to start from the bottom.

[495] So you go from this heralded space where you're a legend, an icon, to just another guy.

[496] And yes, you have the pedigree.

[497] you've got the chops to go on and kind of excel here but it takes time bro we have the most important skill set that's true it took Henry a decade bro it did but I don't have that type of time I'm 30 I'm 30th himself the same way in the beginning yeah Henry turned a corner somewhere in the UFC he wasn't seeing the fruit like it's hard to turn the corner when you don't see the fruit when you start to see celebrities sitting ringside you got hollyberry here Matt McConaughey here and then you see those payouts you're like damn let me get my stuff together.

[498] Let me get right.

[499] Well, he also got really good at marketing and talk at shit.

[500] Yeah, yeah.

[501] The cringe king.

[502] But also, undeniably good as a fighter.

[503] And so when the last half of his career, when he became like super dedicated, I mean, he was crushing people, crushing people with stand -up.

[504] Do you think he's done?

[505] I don't think so.

[506] I think he's so competitive.

[507] Yeah, and how old is he now?

[508] 33, 32?

[509] Yeah, yeah, he's still young.

[510] How old is Henry Sohudo?

[511] I think 33.

[512] He's about the 10 .30.

[513] Okay.

[514] So he still got years ahead of him in his prime, his athletic prime.

[515] And I think he's just a guy like that who's a conqueror.

[516] He's just so good.

[517] Let me ask you this.

[518] Why do you think that MMA fighters have a much later prime than pretty much any other sport?

[519] If you look at the champions in MMA, it's very hard to find someone below the age of 30.

[520] Why is that different?

[521] It's hard to put everything together Because if you're a specialist In one aspect of MMA Someone generally The person that's going to figure out A way to beat you Is a person who's a specialist And the thing you're not good at Like say if you're a wrestler And you're really good at wrestling And then you'll come into a guy You come in a fight with a guy Who's a really good striker Who's got excellent takedown defense And then you're kind of fucked Like that happened when Brock Lesnar fought alster over him because brock leicester couldn't get alster down at alster as a k -1 grand prix champion and just a fucking beast and also an enormous man too of course and brock couldn't get him down and he was just getting torn apart standing up so that was the guy who solved his his puzzle was a guy who is much big or as big as him but much better striker well it's interesting because i think that's why wrestlers translate well is because we i started wrestling at six years old most guys start the sport of wrestling from infancy yeah like if it's in your bloodline you're on the mat three four five years old where a lot of other sports you're not doing that right whether it's judo jujitsu kickboxing boxing like you don't do that for the entirety of your life maybe eight nine 10 you start to dabble in a little bit and i think wrestling actually wrestling is i'm sure wrestling is the only sanctioned sport collegiately of all combat sports So we have a very high level of pedigree in comparison to other places.

[522] Yeah.

[523] So, you know, I started wrestling at six years old, wrestled through middle school, high school, went to the University of Nebraska, earned my degree there, training twice a day for five years, took the medical red shirt to get better and then got to this place where I started to continue to sharpen my chops at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs.

[524] So if I made that transition, I would be so regimented in what I had done for such a long period of time.

[525] I don't think that any other sport can compare with that.

[526] And I don't really follow a ton, so I don't really know the dynamics of what it's like on a scholastic level and, let's say, Jiu -Jitsu.

[527] But I have to imagine that wrestling has the strongest pedigree and the highest level of preparation for MMA because of its ability to be popular within the contents of an actual school, university, that type of thing.

[528] For sure.

[529] And wrestlers that dedicate themselves to Jiu -Jitsu transition very easily.

[530] Like, wrestlers that figure out chokeholds and arm bars and stuff like that, they already know how to control bodies.

[531] And they already know how to drill.

[532] And they already have discipline, like crazy discipline.

[533] One of the things that I think separates wrestlers from other sports is mental toughness.

[534] That's right.

[535] Because it is a badge of courage.

[536] There's a thing that wrestlers all have is they embrace the suck.

[537] They all do.

[538] They all know how to push.

[539] There's no prima don't.

[540] are successful wrestlers.

[541] They don't exist.

[542] I mean, you could say that about other sports.

[543] There's prima donners in basketball.

[544] There's guys that, you know, they'll fake injuries in other sports and soccer they fall down.

[545] That shit is never going to happen in wrestling.

[546] Because it's free.

[547] Yeah.

[548] And it's not sexy.

[549] You don't make any money.

[550] Exactly.

[551] So we've done it for nothing for so long that when you get to this level, it's just all about pride.

[552] Yeah.

[553] I mean, it's not saying there's no mentally tough people in soccer.

[554] I'm sure there are.

[555] Of course.

[556] But there's no flopping in wrestling.

[557] There's no one in wrestling.

[558] successful it's not mentally tough yeah it is like it's a universal standard yeah and when they transition transition rather than m -ma you see it immediately you see it in the training room you see it in the way they fight yeah on the scale you see it they know how to make they know how to cut that weight i wanted to ask you about that too like when you're cutting weight for something or like world championships and you have to compete two hours later how do you do that you've got to be dialed in for a long period of time so i've dabbled in a numerous and a lot of diets right i see You're on a carnivore diet.

[559] Like, how is that going?

[560] It's great.

[561] Is it good?

[562] The last time I did it, I did it last year.

[563] Only meat.

[564] Only meat.

[565] Only meat.

[566] Like, only meat.

[567] Well, I eat eggs and fish.

[568] Like last time I had lobster.

[569] Only animal products.

[570] So eggs, any type of meat.

[571] Yeah.

[572] Any type of meat.

[573] No, that's it.

[574] No vegetables.

[575] No vegetables.

[576] No. Some people eat like a little piece of fruit here and there.

[577] You know, if you really feel like you need it before a workout.

[578] But I'm telling you, man, it's crazy.

[579] You feel fucking great.

[580] Your energy level with no carbs.

[581] carbs is like this.

[582] It's flat all day.

[583] It stays the same.

[584] It's essentially sugar -free.

[585] Yes, exactly.

[586] Exactly.

[587] So that's why your energy, you don't have those crashes.

[588] No insulin crash, no weirdness.

[589] Bro, your belly's got to be feeling awful.

[590] No. How are you digesting all of this stuff?

[591] I feel like I'd be like fogged down.

[592] Like, oh, I couldn't train.

[593] No, I'm telling you, it's pretty easy.

[594] It seems like it wouldn't be.

[595] But it really is.

[596] It's just like, Hafeld Los Angeles, I think, went on this kind of a diet for his last fight when he fought Paul Felder, and I think that's how he wound up making 155 again.

[597] But some guys have tried it in MMA.

[598] I know it's similar to like a ketogenic diet.

[599] A lot of ketogenic diets, guys are mostly eating meats and fats and getting their fuel from fat or from glucogenesis, gluconeogenesis, which is like when your body, I think that's how you say it, when your body processes protein and turns that protein into glucose, your body can do that.

[600] But the thing about it is like there's no crashing after eating.

[601] It's real interesting.

[602] And I think that's the, I try to eliminate sugar.

[603] That's number one.

[604] I always try to eliminate sugar because I like sweets.

[605] I'm a sweet, Scott.

[606] Who does?

[607] Right.

[608] So I want the pastries and I love who, I love bread, right?

[609] So those are the first things I cut out.

[610] I cut out all the extras, number one.

[611] So any sort of, let's say, juice, bread, potato chips, cereal.

[612] Serial is like my thing, right?

[613] late at night, nine o 'clock before I go to bed.

[614] What is it?

[615] Now, or when I was, like, growing up?

[616] If you want to, like, if you want to go off the rails.

[617] Now, I just do granola.

[618] Like, I'm a granola guy.

[619] Yeah, yeah.

[620] When I was a kid, right, it was fruity pebbles and cinnamon toast crunch.

[621] I'm a captain crunch guy.

[622] You're a captain crunch guy.

[623] Bro, I want to see the roof of your mouth if you're a captain crunch guy.

[624] Because listen, bro, it's like chewing on straight up fiberglass, bro.

[625] Like, come on, man. He might as well smash up this mug and throw it in a bowl pour some milk.

[626] mouth that's hilarious so it's uh i know i i dabbled in cap and crunch a little bit when i was a kid all berries you ever had a oops all berries i don't think i did no listen you ain't lived until you had the oops all berries so none of the little yellow boys whatever those are what was the peanut butter one there was a peanut butter breakfast cereal trying to remember what that was i don't know fruit loose was always a good one too can't go wrong lucky charms yeah can't go if i'm gonna go completely off the rails like i so i had some friends of ours who live actually in Texas and Dallas, the Ribman family, they sent me after I made the world team last year a huge box of all the little tiny cereals.

[627] And it had apple jacks, fruit loops, frosted flakes, you know, fruity pebbles, cocoa, everything.

[628] Like literally everything that you ate as a kid.

[629] And so we only do our shopping at Whole Foods now.

[630] So we have a pretty much organic, all natural diet.

[631] So that's why I'm kind of into, you know, the kashi.

[632] Like as far as we go now, it's like honey nut tirios.

[633] That's like as far as we'll...

[634] That's a big splurge.

[635] That's going crazy.

[636] That's a splurge, right?

[637] Like, damn, you're getting wild tonight.

[638] JV's going with the honey -kniton Cheerios.

[639] So I try to cut out the bad stuff first, and then it really is about portion sizing.

[640] So I dabble in intermittent fasting.

[641] I cut down the portion sizes of my meals, and I go sugar -free.

[642] So typically I wake up in the morning, let's say, 7 a .m. I have a smoothie.

[643] In my smoothie, I put plant protein, collagen protein.

[644] I'll do maybe like some chia seeds, almond milk, spinach, and peanut butter.

[645] And that'll be my breakfast.

[646] And this is pre -training.

[647] That's pre -training.

[648] So you do this at seven, and what times your first training session?

[649] And my first training session is at 8 .30.

[650] And how many training sessions do you generally have in a day?

[651] Two.

[652] Two.

[653] Just two.

[654] And how do you break them up?

[655] Do you choose how you train and what you do?

[656] It depends.

[657] Now, yes, a little bit more so than I had in the past.

[658] So at this age, I'm 32 years old.

[659] I've been in it for a while.

[660] I have a connection with my coaches that is more of a partnership as opposed to like a coach athlete relationship.

[661] So I'm like, okay, here's what I need.

[662] Here's what I want to work on.

[663] And then they give me kind of the autonomy to figure out what my schedule is going to look like based.

[664] Because I've got three kids at home, a wife.

[665] So my schedule is a little more busy than the average college guy that we're training with.

[666] So I still train at the University of Nebraska.

[667] We have an RTC there, which is a regional training center, in conjunction with the college program.

[668] So I'm wrestling with those guys off.

[669] in their room out in Lincoln but uh yeah so I have my smoothie at usually like 730 I'm in the wrestling room by 830 to train we're usually on the mat in the morning so we'll get like a light drill in just get our bodies moving get feeling good or we'll lift in the morning so I typically lift three times a week then in the afternoon I'll have depending upon how close I am to my weight cut itself like if I'm trying to stay light and I'm getting close like week up I'll skip lunch period I won't even have lunch or I'll do like a handful of cashews or something relatively small and then I'll go back to practice at two and we'll do either live wrestling or we'll do some sort of conditioning.

[670] Is that hard to do with just like a handful of cashews?

[671] It sucks bro but you have to shrink your body a little bit because if you want to compete too out like unlike boxing MMA where you have an entire day to rehydrate replenish your body and get ready for competition two hours it's a different like if you step on the scale and you just sat in the sauna for an hour and you've been in a hot tub with a sauna suit and a beanie you're finished you you're finished you can't recover it's impossible because if you think about that two hours that two hours encompasses multiple things it's one it's you have to eat and two you've got to get warmed up and in three you've got to get your mind right to and prepare to compete so you never know you could be an hour in or you could be the first match on Matt A it really just depends on how the bracket shake out So you're shrinking your body no matter what No matter what you have to Or at least that's what I feel So the most I ever want to lose In the day the 24 hours before competition Is 6 pounds 6 7 pounds So that's doable for you That's manageable And then so when you get off the scale What's the first thing you take in your body?

[672] Liquids Liquids yeah Do you do with electrolytes?

[673] Yeah electrolytes Amino's liquid aminos I'll do, uh, and is there like a protocol?

[674] Do you do it slowly?

[675] Like, how do you, how do you get rehydrated?

[676] I don't.

[677] I don't do it slowly.

[678] I mean, I don't slam it, but I think I do it with moderation because my weight cut is not really hard because I don't do, you know, 15, 20 pounds.

[679] Right.

[680] So it's not like my body is so shocked that any input nutritionally is going to, you know, throw me off.

[681] Yeah, it's relatively mild because I still want to be able to recover.

[682] You're, you've got your electrolytes and your fluids.

[683] And then, for, Fruits.

[684] So, like, I try to slam.

[685] Then I try to re -energize with all the carbs and the sugars that I've kind of pulled back from.

[686] Because you get time.

[687] The tournament is going to last throughout an entire day.

[688] So let's say you wrestle two hours later, but then your next match isn't going to be for another hour, hour and a half.

[689] And then the same thing for your next match.

[690] And then the semifinal.

[691] So between each match, you're going to have about an hour.

[692] So you know that the longer the day goes, the more you win, the more recovery time you get.

[693] So where you might start.

[694] the day at i wrestle or sorry i weigh in at 163 and then by the time i compete my first match let's say i'm 169ish 170 drank a couple gal a maybe a gallon of water had a smoothie ate some fruit maybe some honey and some peanut butter and then i'm wrestling about six seven pounds over and so then as the day progresses you're eating a little bit between each match but then you also have to remember you've got to make scratch weight again for day two oh my god day two so you got to be back down to 163 .0 for day two of the finals.

[695] Oh no. But that's a different beast because then the finals are in the evening.

[696] So if you can just make it down, weigh in at 8 .30, you don't have to wrestle until 6 p .m. But that's got to beat you up to do that two days in a row.

[697] So when you step off the mat after the semifinals, you wrestled four matches that day and then you go step on the scale.

[698] So like, for example, this year, World Championships made weight Saturday morning, wrestle four matches.

[699] After the semifinals, you're like, okay, I got to make weight tomorrow since I'm a medalist.

[700] you go step on the scale I'm seven pounds over so now I got to get ready for tomorrow I can't eat dinner after wrestling four matches oh I've got to go straight to the gym get on the bike get on the son get in the sauna get on the treadmill get the seven pounds off and then go to sleep hungry and then weigh in again the next morning so it's it's rough I think I hope wrestling it'll change it so if you do that say and then you don't have to wrestle into the evening you weigh in the morning you don't have to wrestle into the evening yeah Then what do you do?

[701] Do you immediately start eating?

[702] It is the same thing?

[703] Fluids first.

[704] Yeah, you do some fluids first.

[705] You do relatively similar protocol to the day before, but then you start to, you train at some point during the day.

[706] Like, if I have a match at night, I always like to get my body moving at some point during a day.

[707] So maybe I'll have breakfast and then around noon, 1 o 'clock.

[708] I'll come and get a light drill in.

[709] Just get my body moving, taking a couple shots, maybe do a couple sprints, ride the bike for a little bit just to make sure that I'm on point when it is go time that I'm not just sitting around all day accumulating all this weight now of a sudden I'm 10 12 pounds heavier than I was eight hours ago and I got to be ready to go out and compete so I can't believe you have to wrestle there's a balance there's a balance there I don't know how the guys do it in MMA bro like you're 15 20 pounds heavier than you were the day before yeah how can you even be ideal it's not ideal in terms of your movement it's not it's not I feel like I've been way down well I mean I feel like there's guys that are getting away from that now, and a lot of guys are trying to just do what you were just saying, get through about six pounds and cut that.

[710] And then it's the day before, and they performed better that way.

[711] Yeah.

[712] But the real concern is against elite grapplers, like someone who's really bigger than you and stronger than you and to take you down.

[713] But I'm just thinking, I can't believe that you have to wrestle all those matches in a day and then train afterwards to cut weight that night.

[714] You got to cut again.

[715] And then don't eat.

[716] So, yes, listen, if the UFC has a tournament and right McGregor's wrestling Soroni on Saturday night Yeah And then, or fighting Soroni Saturday night Then he's got to fight, you know, Gathe Sunday He's going to make weight on Saturday morning before the fight And he's going to make weight again on Sunday before the fight Because you've got to rehydrate Like you got it when you're not thinking about weighing's tomorrow You're thinking about the day Why didn't you can weigh in twice?

[717] Because they want to stop guys from cutting too much weight Like you've seen it guys have almost died Yeah Trying to get down the weight like crazy stuff If you had a day before wayans, people are like, I can cut anything because I can be ready in 24 hours.

[718] Right.

[719] So you got guys literally getting carried to the scale.

[720] Oh, I've seen it.

[721] They can't even walk.

[722] They're discombobulated.

[723] They're all over the place.

[724] Their coaches carry them, sit them on the scale, make weight, and then all of a sudden they just lay them out.

[725] They're pouring fluids into their mouth, chewing their food for them.

[726] It's nuts.

[727] They're on death's door.

[728] I think that's what they're trying to avoid.

[729] They don't want to be liable for someone killing themselves.

[730] while trying to make weight for an event.

[731] Well, there's an MMA organization called OneFC in Asia.

[732] Yeah, of course.

[733] They're trying to avoid that, and they're doing hydration tests.

[734] I'm not exactly sure how they do it.

[735] I don't like that.

[736] You don't like that?

[737] I don't.

[738] How come?

[739] Because there is a certain level of accountability that you have to provide for your athletes, but some weight classes are impossible.

[740] Like, there are only six weight classes in what I do in wrestling.

[741] Right.

[742] The next weight class above me is 189.

[743] I'm at 163, so that's a 26 -pound jump.

[744] The weight class below me is 143.

[745] That's a 20 pound drop.

[746] So I'm a tweener.

[747] I can't go up.

[748] I'm too small.

[749] I can't go down.

[750] I'm too big.

[751] Right.

[752] So the only weight class I can make is 163.

[753] So now not only are you trying to beat the scale and beat your opponent, but now you're also trying to beat the hydration test.

[754] It's just another way for people to cheat and then, you know, potentially suspensions.

[755] Well, what they're doing, well, fighting has a couple more weight classes, but it's still pretty limited.

[756] But what they're doing is they're just telling guys, like, if you fight it, 170 and you're cutting 10 15 pounds just go up to 185 yeah and they're and they're making sure that these guys fight and compete healthy so they're they're trying to eliminate weight cutting is that possible though like it's hard tell someone hey listen I know this is a struggle for you Joe I know you really want to fight at 170 your BMI says that you can but you cannot get hydrated and fight at 170 you've got to go up to 185 and you're like I can't compete here but the other guys would be 185 as well they'll be doing the same thing as well the whole idea is to eliminate weight cutting across the board but some guys have better teams some guys have science behind them that's true you look at connor like now that connor's made this insane amount of money he's got an entire team behind what he does yeah and so most guys that are trying to compete with him don't have those type of resources so where he is has science and they're going to make sure he's on point you're just got your water bottle Yeah.

[757] You're just drinking as much as possible in trying to manage it.

[758] But if you're not cutting weight, that would kind of eliminate the significance of having this big team behind you in terms of like the science of weight cutting and preparing getting yourself ready.

[759] If no one's cutting weight, then you're just dealing with skill.

[760] That's the idea.

[761] Yeah, but that would be like the whole steroids argument.

[762] If everyone's on steroids, then no one's on steroids, right?

[763] So it's like, is that possible?

[764] It's the opposite of that argument.

[765] That would be the argument for weight cutting, saying, look, everyone's on steroids so just take steroids everyone cuts weight so just cut weight but but if you can't cut weight that's like saying you can't do steroids yeah yeah i got you so it's like the opposite of that argument so but i'm curious as to how you would prevent everyone from doing hydration tests i know but there's certain ways not not everyone's not going to cheat right like i'm just saying there's get a guy you'd measure his body mass measure his body fat composition do hydration test on them and say look at 170 you are you're sitting here you have 10 % body fat yeah and then just have your body weight and your mass tracked so like you you're capable of competing at 170 pounds and this is how we know you really can't make 155 and that's the weight classes in mma 155 to 170 i think the tough thing for us is we have eating disorders like combat athletes have eating disorders bro and it's you know for us it's We have an unhealthy relationship with food where we kill ourselves to get down a weight so we can compete at a high level and then we trash our bodies with all the things that we've been missing out on for such a long period of time.

[766] So if you look at the average fighter, where they are in the off season is much higher than where they typically are when they're training.

[767] If you look at a guy with his shirt off when he's getting prepared for a fight, like, damn, that dude looks good.

[768] You look at him on a beach with his family in the summertime.

[769] and we're like, damn, that dude looks fat.

[770] And so we have to have a better relationship with food where it's more of a lifestyle because at this point, this is why you see most guys after their careers are done, they've gained an excessive amount of weight, they look unhealthy.

[771] You're like, bro, what did you do to yourself?

[772] That's true.

[773] It's a good point.

[774] I feel it personally.

[775] There are days where I'm like, I'm not even hungry, but I haven't eaten what I wanted in two months.

[776] I'm having this French toast.

[777] You know what I mean?

[778] And so it's a very, very different aspect of life that we have never really tapped into because we've been able to make it.

[779] But just because you're making it doesn't mean it's healthy.

[780] So, you know, it's almost like one of those things that until we start to register it and track it over a long period of time, we'll never really know the effects mentally, psychologically and physically.

[781] Well, I think for MMA, one of the solutions is more weight classes.

[782] Because I don't think there's nearly enough weight classes.

[783] I think the jumps like 85 to 205.

[784] That's 20 pounds.

[785] That's a giant.

[786] And then 205 to 265 is heavyweight.

[787] That's too big.

[788] that's a giant jump that's a big jump i think they should have weight classes basically every 10 pounds i think that'd be good that might get me interested because i'm a 160 i wrestle at 163 right so i'm literally smack dab in between two weight classes yeah between 55 and 70 then you have me so i feel like i'm too big for 55 so you're still considering this my wife's watching so i'll tell you later when they cut the cameras off i'll tell you how much have you done like with striking never never never never never been in a fight but never hit pads or anything nothing whoa nothing wow that's but i think i just i'm just confident well you should be one of the best wrestlers ever absurdly confident so you're a fucking olympic gold medalist you have you have to be confident but striking is a different animal i just want to roll with a couple of guys um well that would be easy to set up yeah i want to roll with connor is probably my dream guy that just like get my hands on and just feel a little bit i think would be fun um gsp what was it like doing that thing with askeran that you guys uh yeah it was interesting crazy wrestling match it was interesting i i i i respect ben a ton he's uh i do too try this you ever have a kill no it's good CBD my own drink oh i can't my face huh can't bad for you no i'm i'm you sada the CBD doesn't have any t i'm good i understand you know um but thank you I appreciate it.

[789] Hey, make sure you guys are drinking Kilcliffe.

[790] Do you treat whatever we want?

[791] I don't get to try it.

[792] No, you're good, bro.

[793] Pineapple and jalapeno.

[794] This looks good.

[795] Kill Cliff, you're with Kilcliff?

[796] Mm -hmm.

[797] I had a, it's crazy.

[798] I had, they sent me like a package of their stuff years ago.

[799] Were you in their inception?

[800] No. Did you just get recently on board?

[801] Within the last year or so.

[802] That's dope, bro.

[803] Congratulations.

[804] Yeah, we started, I came up with this idea for a pineapple jalapeno drink.

[805] They're growing.

[806] Yeah.

[807] It's great.

[808] It's all sugar -free.

[809] They were relatively small company.

[810] It's got 25 milligrams of CBD in it.

[811] Are they still in, like, the CrossFit space?

[812] Yeah, they do a lot of different stuff like that, yeah.

[813] That's awesome, bro.

[814] So at wrestling Ascran, it was, when I got, I was in college in 2008, he was on the Olympic team, going to Beijing.

[815] I was on the junior world team.

[816] I was 20 years old at the time.

[817] He was on the Olympian, so I'm like, damn, like, that's been Ascran.

[818] Like, yo, look who it is.

[819] And so super cool for me to kind of have that experience.

[820] I remember he took me for a ride to Walmart and his Prius.

[821] And he let me sit shotgun.

[822] And so, like, from that day on, I, like, idolized them.

[823] And then, you know, you get to this point where idols become rivals.

[824] And I'm like, well, this guy is doing extremely well in the MMA world.

[825] He's a former wrestler, but he still has his hand in wrestling.

[826] And he's still a competitor.

[827] So, you know, for him, he's like, why not?

[828] I'm going to do my best to elevate wrestling's profile.

[829] But I knew I could beat him.

[830] So, you know, it wasn't really like a risky matchup for me. um but it was a lot of fun bro we drew a ton of fans we sold out the hulu theater in time square this place was rocking bro like crazy arena um and it was it was a ton of fun it's a ton of fun it's interesting that like for someone to compete in m ms you have to do so many different things you have to strike you have to do jitsu you have to work on all these different aspects that you you know you're wrestling you're just wrestling that's what you do you're an expert at it.

[831] With Ben, he was really a lead at it, but at a certain period, oh, shit.

[832] Now, he's got a fucked up hip, too.

[833] And I'm sure he still had a fucked up.

[834] He was all smiles, though.

[835] Listen, he was like, he was like, there was one point later in the match where I took him down and he was like, bro, I thought you said you were going to let me score or like actually give me a chance.

[836] I was like, no, I'm not the guy.

[837] Listen, if you want to build your confidence or if you want to like get prepared for an event by you know letting someone throw you a bone i'm not that guy but it was fun you know what i got i love ben for allowing me to to compete in this match you know what's crazy is this was my most viewed match in my entire career wow wrestling ben asking who hadn't wrestled competitively in almost a decade it's pretty wild wild he's an interesting guy in mama too because he it's a bummer that he made it to the UFC when he did because he had really taken a long time off the sport and decided to come back and fight in the UFC and I just don't think he was the same Ben Askirk that was the Bellator champion or when he went over to one FC he was manhandling motherfuckers and the best part about it is you got to see a guy who is elite at wrestling and really not elite at anything else just dominating with pure wrestler.

[838] He's a great wrestler.

[839] He's a great wrestler.

[840] He's one of those guys.

[841] If he gets attached to you, he's dangerous.

[842] Yeah.

[843] Right?

[844] If you get your head underneath of him, front headlock position, forget about it.

[845] He's ridiculously strong, despite what he looks like.

[846] Deceptively strong, right?

[847] Yeah.

[848] Shape like a pair, wrestle like a bear.

[849] That's a good way to describe it.

[850] So he's, man, he's got the ultimate dad by, but I tell you what, you don't want to let that dude end on your leg.

[851] For years, but when he was undefeated before he went to fought the UFC, for years, he would get a hold of guys.

[852] You could see this surprised look in their face.

[853] Like, they were confused.

[854] When he fought, like, Korshkov, and when he fought Douglas Lima, these fucking murderers over in Bellator.

[855] Those guys were killing people, but he just got a hold of him.

[856] Like, not today.

[857] Boom, on your back.

[858] Yeah.

[859] Take these nuggies.

[860] Yeah, it was wild because, and maybe it worked out perfectly for him, because he got to establish himself here.

[861] in these lesser leagues, excuse me, and then made the transition at a good time where, you know, he was knocking on Dana White's door for so long that it almost became comical.

[862] It's like, you've got to let this guy in here.

[863] True, I just wish that we could have seen him when he was in his athletic prime compete against the guys that he competed against, guys like Robbie Lawler and guys like, you know, Masvidal.

[864] He was a guy that there was, he had dwelled here for so long that when he finally got to the UFC, they gave him such elite a competition that he never really had a chance to even get his feet wet in the UFC.

[865] He was like, all right, Loller.

[866] Well, that's what the UFC does.

[867] Well, he won that fight.

[868] Here you go.

[869] The Mazbino fight was crazy.

[870] Yeah, but Loller fight was crazy too.

[871] Crazy too.

[872] That first 45 seconds, it's not looking good for him.

[873] I know, he got hit with some big shots.

[874] It was a crazy fight.

[875] But it was, you know, Ben has made a lot of money, and he's done very well for himself, and he's still well respected in both spaces.

[876] So, I mean, I really guess that's all you can ask for from his perspective.

[877] He's done extremely well.

[878] He has multiple wrestling clubs back up in Wisconsin.

[879] He works for flow wrestling down here in Austin, who he, you know, dabbles in commentary and as an analyst for our sport.

[880] He's well respected in the MMA community.

[881] He's been a champion in one FC and Bellator and, you know, fought in the UFC.

[882] Like, he's done, he's done well.

[883] And he's also, like, he's a fun guy.

[884] He took that loss against Mazzvedal better than anybody.

[885] Like, immediately gets on Twitter.

[886] Well, that sucked.

[887] Bro, I was scared.

[888] I was just scared.

[889] We were at Buffalo Wild Wings watching that fight.

[890] Yeah.

[891] And we were sitting down like, all right, let's go.

[892] Let's go, Ben.

[893] Because it was only a couple weeks after I had wrestled him.

[894] So I wanted to see him win.

[895] You know, it's...

[896] Of course.

[897] I just wanted to see him win.

[898] because I was affiliated with him so I always want to see the wrestlers win but it was kind of crazy that he took a wrestling match a couple of weeks before a big MMA and I was I threw him off the stage that was a bad idea that was a bad I'm an idiot bro like I almost cost this man a lot of money just because you know I was being stupid yeah we're good well it worked out okay yeah yeah he's a rocked that the shot that he landed on him was horrific and that's why I still wrestle Yeah Well, if you've done no striking at all I think you've made a good choice Yeah, bro, it's different And I think You know, it's funny, I got I took a shot the other day in practice Right into someone's knee, And I was like, maybe that's what a punch feels like And I'm like, if I can take that shot From a knee to the face Shooting at full speed, I can take a punch I can take a punch I don't know, maybe it's just a little ego Right, there's like a little ego I'm like I want to see what I'm made of I've never fought I know I'm tough I'm gritty I'm mentally tough I can do this um but again like I don't feel like I have anything to prove I've got to kind of step back into like this spiritual sense of contentment like I've done plenty God has me where he wants me and I've done so much to elevate the profile of the sport of wrestling I don't have to make this transition like yes it would be great to be glamorous I'd have celebrities ringside I get a big purse and all this cool stuff I have you calling my fight but would it be true to what I really believe in who I really want to be and desire for myself or would it just be a cash grab and you know this futile pursuit of something that is not meant for me bro like if you go into anything without a spirit of contentment and true purpose it's always going to be a feudal pursuit so like for me I'm like is it really worth it.

[899] I really want to be in here.

[900] When they locked that gate behind me, am I going to be like, this is what I wanted?

[901] Or am I like, what am I doing here?

[902] You know what I mean?

[903] Like, you got raging fans at the bar like, yeah, kill him, kick his ass, bros. So it's just a different vibe.

[904] I'm thankful for where I'm at.

[905] It's a good place.

[906] Well, that's beautiful.

[907] That's perfect, man. You don't need to make any other decisions then.

[908] Listen, and you also have a very unique opportunity to bring a lot of attention to wrestling.

[909] Yeah, real real elite wrestling post college post olympics and to let people know there's still people competing there's viable options to compete no one knows no one knows what happens in wrestling they're like well what are you doing between the olympics i'm like well there's still wrestling there's world championships everyone's like do you still wrestle i'm like bro i just i have one of the biggest matches of the year coming up i just wrestled in one of the biggest matches of the year you're like yes i still compete but people don't really follow wrestlers follow yeah that's it just wrestlers We're such a niche sport where the UFC's brand has exploded because you guys were in this kind of limbo era for a period of time.

[910] And now you guys are, you know, one of the biggest sports in the world.

[911] And so it's been cool to kind of see the transition.

[912] And we've tried to take cues from you guys, from, you know, broadcasting way -ins to making, you know, these matchups in these cards.

[913] One of the hardest things about wrestling is their tournaments.

[914] And so within a tournament, it can be hard to market the best matchups, because there's upsets and a lot of things happen.

[915] Injuries.

[916] Things just might not happen, right?

[917] So if you've got all the best 170 -pounders in the entire world, you know, how do you know that GSP and Kamar Ustman are going to meet up?

[918] Because they're one and two seed.

[919] You never know.

[920] Anything could happen.

[921] Right.

[922] And so I think that you guys have done a really good job with marketing the sport.

[923] You've brought in brand sponsors.

[924] And it has gone from this, you know, red -headed stepchild to box.

[925] where it's brutal and barbarian to this sport that it's seen as more of an art form.

[926] And there are a lot of guys that are responsible for that.

[927] And it's been cool to see.

[928] We're trying to replicate it, but it's much harder because.

[929] Well, it's one of those things where I think for wrestlers, it's fantastic to be able to watch elite wrestling.

[930] They love it.

[931] It's very enticing.

[932] But to people that have never wrestled before, it's kind of confusing what's happening.

[933] And that's what I was saying about jujitsu.

[934] That's one of the reasons why combat jujitsu is it's literally.

[935] the most popular thing that Eddie's come up with, because he's come up with these EBI tournaments or sort of a different jujitsu format, but combat jiu -jitsu, people understand people getting hit.

[936] And that's the thing about the UFC.

[937] When people understand the striking.

[938] It's simple.

[939] A guy punches the guy, you get it.

[940] The guy kicks the guy, you get it.

[941] But when fights go to the ground and people start going for submissions, to people that have never grappled, they have no idea what's happening.

[942] Let them back to their feet.

[943] Yeah, they want that.

[944] That's what they want.

[945] They don't understand it so it's just a scramble tangle of limbs they don't really understand what's happening we live in like a bloodthirsty society so people want to see then even if you watch a boxing fight like if you if you watch let's say bud crawford versus earl spence you're like these dudes are the very best in the entire world at their craft if there's not a knockout and there's a draw unanimous decision after 12 rounds you're going to be like that sucked i want to see someone get knocked out but the chances are when you have two high -level guys like that like they're not going to knock each other out they're just going to be they fill each other out right throw a couple jabs maybe hit each other with a couple power punches but they're just too tough and too precise with their movements that they'll never knock each other out so i think in wrestling it's the same thing like you have to be a wrestler to truly appreciate the crap like you know what it takes to be the best but you can't really respect it unless you're within it plus it's not just a recreational sport wrestling is it's taboo right it's kind of weird a little bit like you wear singlets and like you just roll around like jujitsu i feel like you can go to a gym as a 40 -year -old man that hasn't competed in 20 years put on your ghee and roll around with your co -worker and it can be completely normal but you wouldn't do that you wouldn't wrestle your co -worker like you'd be like bro like get off me dog and so it's uh it's just it's it's it's different i feel like wrestling's one of the few sports that you can't just do recreationally.

[946] Yeah, you can't just go to the local gym.

[947] Yeah, you have to have gone through high school or college.

[948] Yeah.

[949] You want to watch it, but you don't really want to be in it.

[950] Yeah, like for MMA fighters that have never competed in wrestling at all, and they want to like learn how to wrestle, it's uncomfortable for them.

[951] That's what I want to do.

[952] Like, I want to have, when I finish up my career, I'm going to make a higher performance training center.

[953] And I'm going to invite all the best UFC fighters, all fighters, but I like the UFC's brand to come train with me and help them sharpen up their skills and preparation for their big fights.

[954] Where would you do that?

[955] That's a good question.

[956] I'm from Jersey.

[957] I'm actually moving to Philadelphia next year with my family, but I want to be somewhere with shines, the sun shines all year round.

[958] I want to be somewhere warm with there's no salt on my car and just sit outside and grill and hang out with the fam.

[959] So I don't know.

[960] That's a good question.

[961] It's got to be a desirable destination if you're going to get the best guys in the world to come.

[962] But I've got some invitations from some UFC fighters to come and train with him.

[963] I've got some invitations from jiu -jitsu guys to come train with him from, you know, Roy McDonald to, you know, Tyron Woodley.

[964] I've spent some time with TSP for Vitor Belfort.

[965] I've gotten invitations from like Gordon Ryan and, you know, Johnny Torres and all these guys.

[966] Oh, so jiu -jitsu guys as well.

[967] Yeah, some jiu -jitsu guys as well.

[968] And I'm just always wrestling.

[969] You know, wrestling takes up so much of my time.

[970] and I've got little ones at home, so it's really hard to do.

[971] But when I transition out of the sport, which I'm kind of in that phase now, I've got one more Olympic cycle in me. And then moving on to, I really like to help fighters because I feel like, although I don't strike and I don't really, I'm not familiar with my striking.

[972] It's something I'll pick up later just so I can know kind of how to incorporate your striking into your wrestling offense and defense.

[973] But I think I can be a really good asset for a lot of fighters is to try to help them make that transition.

[974] Oh, for sure.

[975] I mean, they would jump at the chance.

[976] Yeah, it would be fun, bro.

[977] It would be fun.

[978] Plus, it's my wheelhouse.

[979] Yeah.

[980] So it's like, it'll be cool to kind of rough them up a little bit there.

[981] So 2021 is Japan.

[982] That's your next cycle.

[983] And so that is August?

[984] Is that what it is?

[985] August, yeah.

[986] So I still got to make the team.

[987] I still got to make the team.

[988] So basically our Olympic trials are in April.

[989] I was a world medalist in 2019.

[990] They'll have a tournament for like 10 competitors they'll wrestle whoever wins out of those 10 will wrestle me in the finals best two out of three so i've got to wrestle one guy beat them best two out of three to make the olympic team at 163 pounds so it's a it's a big task but it's a big task it's fun it's fun i'm excited 2021 in japan is going to be very fascinating it's going to be interesting to see if they have any kind of a they used they had a pretty good record with covid for a while but lately they've had a big surge it's wild bro like i think i don't know if there's going to be fans and if there aren't fans then it kind of eliminates what the games are all about like yeah it's a certain spirit in the village and on the buses and the railways and the train stations of people bustling in and out of the Olympic stadium that just makes it special you know you've got your flag draped over your shoulders and your country scarf it's it's a pretty cool experience when you're at the Olympic Games that's what I love about it man like where else can so many countries come together despite the political turmoil and And, you know, whatever may be happening within your own country, when you get together at the Olympic Games, like, it transcends everything.

[991] Yeah.

[992] Politics, race, gender, religion.

[993] Like, it's nothing like it in the world, man. It's epic.

[994] There was a picture I had back in 2012 where in the gold medal match, I beat a guy named Sadie Goddadiqadarzi from the Islamic Republic of Iran.

[995] And I've got my arm around.

[996] I'm on the top of the podium.

[997] And on the back of our warmups said, the United States of America.

[998] and, you know, Islamic Republic of Iran.

[999] And so, like, we're, like, arm in arm.

[1000] And it was just, like, a super special photo because our governments hate each other.

[1001] And I've been to Iran on multiple occasions, and they love us, like, literally rock star status when we're in Iran.

[1002] They're following us at the airport.

[1003] They're waiting for us outside of the arena.

[1004] They're trying to give you kisses, like hugs.

[1005] There's the picture.

[1006] Epic.

[1007] Like, epic photo, bro, because what you see that's personified in the media and what you experience when your boots are on the ground in a particular country like Iran is much different than the perception.

[1008] And so the Iranian people, man, they're the best wrestling fans in the world.

[1009] Outside of her own, right, I'm partial because I'm an American, but best wrestling fans in the world, super knowledgeable, love the sport.

[1010] They want the heroes to win.

[1011] In America, we build up our heroes just so we can see if they can get knocked off.

[1012] In Iran, they always want the hero to win, everybody.

[1013] So it's, they wait for us at the airport, just.

[1014] So when we land on the tarmac, we walk out to the airport.

[1015] They've got media there.

[1016] They've got wrestling fans.

[1017] They're giving us flowers.

[1018] And they are coming to our hotel room.

[1019] We've got armed guards on the floor of our hotel just to make sure nobody gets to our floor because they are waiting for us in the lobby just to take photos.

[1020] That's crazy.

[1021] It's absolute insanity.

[1022] Are they the most rabid fans in terms of like the most?

[1023] There's no question about it.

[1024] They've got chant leaders that come.

[1025] with bells and whistles and drums and I'm like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do.

[1026] Like, they got their wisp, bro.

[1027] Like, I'm when I, and you know what's even crazier, Joe, is because of their strict Islamic religion, they don't allow women into the arenas.

[1028] Whoa.

[1029] So if you look in this picture, this is a sold -out stadium, 8 ,500 men, men and boys only.

[1030] No women allowed in the arena at all.

[1031] Wow.

[1032] And so it's pretty insane as to, how much love and admiration they have for the sport and particularly Americans because I've beaten Iranians.

[1033] I've never lost an Iranian and wrestled a dozen of them and they still love me. It's wild, but it's cool.

[1034] It's cool.

[1035] That has got to be a trip to, I mean, one of the things about your career that's probably one of the most educational parts of it is this travel aspect.

[1036] Yeah.

[1037] I mean, how many different countries have you been to?

[1038] I've been to, I believe, last time I can't, it was 22.

[1039] Wow.

[1040] 22 um that's wild you've wrestled at 22 different countries 22 different countries and so I had never I didn't get my passport until I was 20 so crazy you have kids yeah how many three three very nice how old uh 24 12 and 10 20 how old are you 53 you got a get the hell out of here I did I never would expect that you look young thank you very much you look young you look good man um appreciate so I've got three little ones my oldest is a little boy named Beacon, he's six, my middle child, Aura is a girl, and then our baby rise.

[1041] She just turned one yesterday, actually.

[1042] Congratulations.

[1043] Thanks, man. And so all three of them had a passport before their first birthday.

[1044] So it's wild, like, you are who you are based on who your parents are and what they do.

[1045] Or a lot of it is nature.

[1046] And so I didn't get my passport until I was 20 years old, left the country for the first time, went to Istanbul, Turkey.

[1047] my kids have all had passports before their first birthdays my son we counted before he was one he was on 42 flights 42 flights before his first birthday that's crazy travel the world they've been to rio they've been to you know canada they've been to the world championships to the olympic games they've been to panam games like everything all over the world so it's wild to me to kind of experience that because i'm like man i never had this like i grew up in a small town in south july jersey and like so whenever people are like man like how do you maintain the certain level of sustainability and excellence over a long time was like because i never expected it so when i arrived here i wanted to cling to it to see how long i could maintain it because i never grew up desiring to be an olympian i hear a lot of olympians like man i watch the summer games in atlanta in 1996 on my grandma's couch and i knew from that day forward that i wanted to win olympic gold medal and i'm like bro that wasn't my story i didn't know i could make the olympic team until I was damn there on the team.

[1048] And I was like, man, I'm pretty good.

[1049] Like, I'm going to wrestle with the Olympic trials.

[1050] Like, I'm going to see if I can do this.

[1051] And so my kids have kind of had the direct benefit of all of the work that I've put in through this sport.

[1052] And so it's been a tremendous blessing for me to kind of just see it rub off on them.

[1053] My oldest beacon and my middle aura, they just started wrestling three weeks ago.

[1054] And so I'm trying not to be the crazy dad, the crazy wrestling dad.

[1055] It's got to be hard.

[1056] I'm sending them to their.

[1057] training facility and they've got great coaches but when they're on the mat like you know there's 14 other kids there so coaches are focused on everyone in the room right they can't show special attention to my kids just because I am who I am and so I'm trying not to be the dad I won't I want to get on the mat I'm like bro B you're not doing that right do you like your head needs to go here your hands need to be locked here but then I need to like kind of back off back off like you know what if he's going to love it he's got to love it on his own yeah that's a tricky bouncing act right like you don't want to push him too hard because then you might push them away from the sport or make them resent it because when you grow up and your dad is Jordan Pearls and you're wrestling.

[1058] There's a lot of pressure.

[1059] Yes.

[1060] I mean, I remember when Marvis Frazier fought Mike Tyson and Joe Frazier was in the corner and I'm like, imagine growing up with Joe Frazier's your dad and you got to become a box or two.

[1061] And you've got to fight Mike Tyson.

[1062] And you got to fight Mike Tyson when he was on his way to the title.

[1063] It was one of the most.

[1064] He didn't want that fight.

[1065] It was a terrible fight.

[1066] Did you ever see that fight?

[1067] I did.

[1068] was one of the most frightening Mike Tyson performances of all time and that's saying a lot you know what I think there's two there's two ways I look at it there's a guy that I know um seems Ilius de Lac Diacama Hollis and he told me he was like his sons are great wrestlers wrestle at Cornell and he's like my boys wanted to wrestle I wrestled and I wanted to teach them what I knew best it's like imagine you being the best in the world at something and you letting your kids escape your home at 18 without you ever telling them or teaching them about what you were the best in the world at.

[1069] That would be a travesty.

[1070] You let your kids escape your home without teaching them something that you were the absolute best in the world at.

[1071] So you don't have to push them or pressure them to do something.

[1072] You allow the love to grow on their own, but if there's something that you are particularly great at, you have to give that knowledge and that information to the world.

[1073] And so you've become a man of the people, a man of your family.

[1074] You're the best in the world at the sport of wrestling.

[1075] Give that to them.

[1076] Then let the decision be their own to decide if they want to take it further and, you know, I don't know, wrestle with the Olympics.

[1077] It's so hard, man. Like everyone's like, oh, your son, next Olympic champ.

[1078] I'm like, yo, bro, chill, dog.

[1079] Because then I feel the pressure.

[1080] Right.

[1081] So I'm like, not only is my boy everywhere he goes is like, damn, you're wrestling now, you better be good.

[1082] And he's feeling the pressure.

[1083] and then I'm feeling pressure.

[1084] It's like, oh, your son's wrestling now?

[1085] Damn, I can't wait to see how great he's going to be.

[1086] Because now I'm like, well, there's an expectation.

[1087] Like, let's go.

[1088] Six years old, push -ups.

[1089] No dinner until you do five rope climbs.

[1090] You know what I mean?

[1091] So it's like you have to always manage expectations, particularly with kids, because you want them to be so much, but also you have to prepare for normalcy.

[1092] The hardest thing, you have resources, Joe.

[1093] Like, you've done so much.

[1094] You've been successful at your craft.

[1095] you've got so much exposure so many more resources than I imagine you had growing up how do you not allow that to trickle down to your kids to give them more opportunity but also accompany that with expectations like look what I've become with nothing so now look what you have the access to sky's the limit like how do you how do you balance that it's very tricky and it's also tricky because the most interesting people that I know have come from nothing they've all come from struggle because I think struggle builds character having to overcome adversity is one of the cornerstones of becoming like an actualized person.

[1096] Like you have to get through something to realize what you're capable of and it gives you confidence to be able to get through other things.

[1097] And when your life is kind of easy, but you don't want your kids to go through hardship either.

[1098] So it's like this weird balancing act.

[1099] But you can if you facilitate it.

[1100] You got to have, yeah, you've got to give them structure.

[1101] It's hard.

[1102] Because you want it easy too.

[1103] It's like, are you going to be?

[1104] I'm thinking about this from my perspective as a kid, the hardest moments that I had were associated with sport.

[1105] It was very rare that I had a difficult time in my life from one to 18.

[1106] That wasn't because I had to train hard or had to wrestle hard or I cried because I got beat or choked out or slammed on my head.

[1107] It wasn't hard.

[1108] I didn't grow up on a farm.

[1109] I grew up in a middle class family in South Jersey in a suburban town.

[1110] So my lifestyle was different.

[1111] And my parents both raised in the city my dad was from philly my mom was from camden so they wanted me to see a different side of what they didn't experience as a kid so they wanted to kind of shelter me from that they've done a tremendous job i mean i've i've achieved a level of success that they dreamed of for me but also you know there was a certain amount of grit that i had to develop just because of the contents of where we were and like it was suburban but it was still kind of edgy um but now i want to i kind of want to chill a little bit too right i'm like right i've done well like i've done well like I want to send my kids to the best school.

[1112] I think, though, you will lead by example because one of the things that your kids will undeniably understand is how hard you work to get to where you are.

[1113] And that rubs off on your children.

[1114] There's one thing where you teach them things, you know, you show them, and you tell them, and you give them advice and talk to them.

[1115] But another thing is they learn just from seeing what you do.

[1116] When you have a dad who does what you do, which to be an elite wrestler, maybe people don't have.

[1117] understand this, it is one of the most physically demanding pursuits in the world, period.

[1118] It's a fact.

[1119] In terms of athletics, there's very few things that are as difficult and as grueling as wrestling.

[1120] And to be elite at it, to, I mean, it's not like it's an insurmountable sport.

[1121] It's not like something that takes a ton of equipment.

[1122] It's not like something that's not like Formula One race car driving.

[1123] We need a million dollars to get a car.

[1124] No, it's something that just requires a mindset and also what you were saying before there's no real money in it right so it's not like there's it's something like basketball where there's this gigantic pot of gold waiting at the end of the rainbow right no it's it's just toughness and grit and your kids are going to understand that there's no there's no way they're not going to and they will understand that there's a level of discipline and focus that you have that maybe they're going to see their their friends parents don't have so let me ask you this then it's easy for them to see what i do because because it's tangible, right?

[1125] It's visible.

[1126] You see dad lift weights, wrestle, cut weight.

[1127] How in a guy like your position, someone is extremely successful, but there's no physical grueling activity that's associated with it.

[1128] So they may not be able to visibly see what it is that you are thinking about aspiring to be what you're doing, right?

[1129] They're long hours away from home, maybe long hours at night and in the morning.

[1130] But how do they see what you do and how are they able to associate that with how they, need to live moving forward like how what are the ways you've been able to kind of teach your kids well they do see me work out which helps too yeah good because I don't have to you're right right it's not like I'm doing it for a job but I do it just I eat and only steak they're like this let's go this is life I want dad I want steak and lobster every night carnivore diet but I think um I say this and I live this that I think you need to struggle physically in life because it makes life easier because I think there's a lot of struggles that people go through psychologically mentally with work with just relationships with civilization I think when you struggle physically I mean like really struggle physically I think it makes those things easier because there's you're putting yourself through something you don't really have to do it's not part of your job but if you put yourself through grueling workout routines I think it makes things easier and my kids see that because we have a gym in the house they see me work out Do they work out?

[1131] Yeah, they work out.

[1132] And one of my daughters is really into gymnastics, and the other one is really into basketball.

[1133] But when they were young, they also were into martial arts.

[1134] And, you know, I would take them to, when they were younger, they're so young.

[1135] But I would take them to martial arts gym, and I would even demonstrate some things with the teacher and do some stuff.

[1136] And, you know, they got into jiu -jitsu.

[1137] They got into a little bit of kickbox.

[1138] And so they got to see that I'm very, I do a lot of shit, you know.

[1139] And so, and I've reached a high level of proficiency at those things.

[1140] I do.

[1141] And so they get to see that.

[1142] That's good.

[1143] It's not even a part of my job necessarily other than like calling MMA fights, but they get to see, oh, well, you could be lazy.

[1144] You could just sit back and just count your money and just eat food all day, but I don't.

[1145] Eat steaks.

[1146] I get after it.

[1147] You know what's funny is my kids don't even realize that what I do is what makes a living for us.

[1148] They're just like, oh yeah, dad wrestles because like for them, they see, they wrestle.

[1149] Right.

[1150] So like, what's the difference between what you do and what I do?

[1151] Like, I go to practice and get coached.

[1152] You go to practice and get coached.

[1153] So where do they think the money's coming from?

[1154] It just exists, bro.

[1155] It's just like, we just have a roof over our head and a cabinet full of snacks.

[1156] And I'm happy, man. Do you get paid to win tournaments?

[1157] We do, yeah.

[1158] So, like, the bulk, here's the bulk of a wrestler's income or Olympian's income.

[1159] One for us is we built what we call RTCs, regional training centers that are in conjunction with collegiate programs.

[1160] We get paid pretty much to train there because they use our name and likeness to kind to elevate their programs to help with recruiting, but also we're in the room with their guys daily, so we kind of teach the college guys.

[1161] We're sharpening them, helping them develop.

[1162] So that's number one.

[1163] Number two, sponsors.

[1164] So primary sponsors.

[1165] I'm sponsored by A6, Ralph Lauren, Bridgestone, Comcast, and Xfinity.

[1166] So, like, you have corporate sponsors that align with you during Olympic years, non -Olympic years to provide you with product.

[1167] They'll pay you to create digital marketing campaigns and really just align with what it is that you're doing if your brand kind of fits their spectrum of what they're trying to create.

[1168] And then lastly, that is if you win.

[1169] They have what they call the Living and the Dream Fund.

[1170] So you get money for World Championship medals, Olympic medals going to like all these tournaments and then what we're doing Saturday night.

[1171] So if you go to these cards for like flow wrestling, it's pretty much like the UFC.

[1172] Like you have deals where it's like, okay, this guy is this level of opponent.

[1173] It's going to be watched by these many viewers.

[1174] You're going to get this number of subscribers.

[1175] Here's what we feel like we can pay you.

[1176] So, yeah, I mean, there are numerous ways that you can get paid, but it's definitely changed.

[1177] I was talking to Daniel the other day.

[1178] He said that when he was with Adidas, when he was an Olympian back in 2004 and 08, he was getting $12 ,000 a year, $12 ,000 a year, $1 ,000 a month he was getting to wrestle.

[1179] And he was like, I just had to retire from the UFC because my back was just killing me. He had that back surgery.

[1180] He was like, you know why my back hurts from wrestling for 25 years shooting in all guy's legs and being stuck underneath of him?

[1181] And I was like, damn.

[1182] And he's like, man, there's so much money in UFC.

[1183] He's had two lives, literally two lives, two careers.

[1184] And he's become amazing at this.

[1185] And he always had this character and personality, but you just were unable to utilize it financially.

[1186] You could monetize that in wrestling.

[1187] It just didn't work.

[1188] So we're in the precipice of doing something.

[1189] extremely cool wrestlers are now actually earning a living by doing this you don't have to transition in MMA and that's why I think that a lot of guys have stayed in the wrestling sport like we have some really great athletes myself Kyle Snyder Kyle Dake David Taylor Jaden Cox James Green like all these amazing athletes but you know I think will be great fighters but wrestling now you can earn a living yeah and it's not a lot but he's a Daniel's such an unusual human being because now I don't does he have two careers like he had the wrestling career than an mama career but he also has a commentator career because he's so fun he's good he's great he's fun man he's so he's so he's the best he's so fun to do it with like me and him have and john annick we have so much fun together yeah when i called him the other day and you know daniel's the man right he's done so well in his ufc career and he although he knew me within wrestling now that he's made this transition you kind of you're weary like you don't just cold call people and like have expectations for what it is that they can provide for you but i'm like bro like i would like to call you like is this okay my wife's just like call him call him like you're he'll answer your call and i'm like i'm not just calling this man this man's a big deal and so she's like just call him so i text him and he's like yeah just call me tomorrow so i call him and like i thought it was just going to be like a quick really short conversation and he's like we're on the phone for like 30 45 minutes just kind of shooting the breeze chopping it up and i'm just like damn like I felt like a lot of joy after that call because he just has the ability to make you smile and to make everyone that he encounters feel valuable.

[1190] That's something that he really does well.

[1191] And that's what I want to possess that.

[1192] When you make people that you see feel value regardless of their status, that's a special trait to possess.

[1193] And I don't think everyone has that because you're so busy, bro.

[1194] Like everyone wants a whole of you.

[1195] I made an Instagram post a few weeks ago.

[1196] It's like once you become successful in anything, you become a man or the people.

[1197] The people want so much of you because they're essentially who pays your bills, not technically, but they watch your show and they elevate your ratings.

[1198] They buy my wrestling shoes and watch my wrestling matches.

[1199] So it's just a different vibe.

[1200] So I always try to feel a certain level of obligation and responsibility to the people while still maintaining a certain level of privacy for myself and my family.

[1201] But it can be hard.

[1202] So sometimes you're like, yo, Joe, what's up, bro?

[1203] Like let me get a picture.

[1204] I love you.

[1205] You're big fan the problem is when i'm with my family you're like bro i like it's or when you're eating here give your kids excuse me kids yeah i need to take a picture with your dad i've had people hand their phones to my wife my daughter was sitting on my lap and we were at a restaurant and this guy came over and he was trying to get a picture he sat on your other knee he's on his knees right here while my daughter's on my lap and i'm like you don't think this is kind of fucked up you don't think what was his response he goes yeah it is i go this is not the way to do this man we're all sitting here eating how do you how do you balance that though because it's hard you it's tricky sometimes you have to take a certain level of privacy for yourself yeah for sure you got to just say i cannot not not right now yeah i usually say when i'm done eating when i get up i said i'll be happy to take picture with you but hang tight if you let everybody interrupt your meal then you can't go out now i can't go out because then you can't sit down and just eat are you do you just go out and about like in the city yeah i go out and like is it I always have gone out.

[1206] You're like, yo, Joe.

[1207] Yeah.

[1208] And you're like, everybody's friendly.

[1209] It's mostly just a bunch of people saying hi.

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] That's mostly what it is.

[1212] It's mostly like, what's up?

[1213] Hey, what's up?

[1214] I say hi too.

[1215] It's all good.

[1216] That's so.

[1217] 99 .99 .99 % good.

[1218] And every now and then you run into a drunk.

[1219] You know, that's, that's, sometimes that's a pain in the ass.

[1220] But even they're usually pretty good.

[1221] It's just sometimes people just don't understand privacy.

[1222] They don't understand personal space.

[1223] they just get weird but just also they get weird like if someone's a gigantic wrestling fan and they meet you they're probably bugged out they don't understand how to behave they're all nervous and weirded out the tangibles of being really good at what you do yeah well especially if you're trying to aspire if you're aspiring to be a great wrestler as well and you have these guys all in your head and you watch matches on youtube and you know you idolize these certain wrestlers and then all of a sudden you're in front of one of them and you didn't expect it I mean you you might just babble out something stupid one day I'm gonna pin you man shit what the fuck did i say i told jordan bro i'm sorry bro i didn't mean that i just really wanted to picture you bro yeah they just sometimes people just get nervous they don't they don't know how to behave they don't know what to say and they make you uncomfortable even though they don't want to they invade your space when they just want to show admiration that's a good that's a good perspective you've got to like kind of exhibit a certain amount of grace when dealing with the public especially in your position um but i imagine that some days it's like it's a little tough It's just most of the time it's easy.

[1224] The vast majority of the time.

[1225] But occasionally, like someone, you'll have a bite of food in your mouth.

[1226] And someone like, hey man, can I get a picture?

[1227] And you're like, come on, dude.

[1228] That's a blessing, though, that you have that perspective because there are a lot of people who don't.

[1229] And by the time that they realize it, it's too late.

[1230] And they've already burned so many bridges and had so many bad encounters with the people.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] That's just not good for.

[1233] It's not good for PR.

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] Yeah, it's not good for how people look at you.

[1236] It's not good for you either.

[1237] It's not good for how you feel about yourself.

[1238] Like, if I have a bad encounter with somebody, I don't feel good about it.

[1239] It makes me feel bad, too.

[1240] I don't want, I want all encounters with all humans that I encounter to be fun.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] I'm a fun person.

[1243] I like, I'm friendly.

[1244] I like to be friendly to everybody.

[1245] That's what I want.

[1246] And making people feel good is like a, it's a cool experience.

[1247] It is.

[1248] Because, like, for them, it means the world.

[1249] For you, it's just like, wait, hey, what's up, bro?

[1250] Yeah.

[1251] Good to meet you, man. Let me take a photo with you.

[1252] you like tell your friend i said what's up and they're like oh my gosh you'll never believe what happened to me today and for you you're like oh yeah so a guy at chipole it was good yeah there's a responsibility and i'm sure you experienced that as well right there's a responsibility of being someone that people look up to like you're you're you're not just a regular person you're a person that a lot of people are aware of and they're following what your career is they're following what you do they follow you the olympics they follow you at the world championships they pay attention online when they're not watching it they're trying to figure out you know how you're doing what you're doing and they want to emulate you and that that's why i'm asking you about your training routines and what you're eating and things like that because i'm sure people are listening like how often is you train how how does he approach this mornings like what does he eat first that's yeah that's that's that's how that's funny that's one of the things that i kind of want to discuss i i hope not taking too much of your time no man come on is what i do is it's mindset is i've now i'm i've transition to follow sustainable success like guys who have been able to do it for a really long time tom brady lebron james yeah raphael nadal roger federer serena williams you know i don't know sue bird like so many athletes that it's easy to do it early on in your career hard to do it over a long period of time especially with all of the distractions you get bread you get fame you get this recognition you start winning championships easy to become competitive place in how do you maintain a certain level of success for a long period of time that's something like people ask me that daily particularly because i'm in this fatherhood element too so this adds like an extra layer of depth because in wrestling i'm considered the old guy right i'm the oldest guy on the team now i no one else has three kids you know so it's it's a very different avenue that and lane that i'm within so i'm trying to balance these things all together but But I really have now transitioned from this young upstart trying to be this hot shot guy, get my name out to now I'm like this old wise yogi where I'm like, hey, listen, you can be successful at multiple things, my friend.

[1253] And so it's been a really cool transition for me is going from this place where you're young, you're just trying to get your name out to now you're balancing multiple principles and parts of your life where it's like, okay, can I be a great husband, great father, and be dream.

[1254] You know what I think you could do, too?

[1255] What's that?

[1256] Corporate speaking.

[1257] I appreciate that.

[1258] I think you'd be fantastic with that.

[1259] I've dabbled in it a little bit.

[1260] You know what?

[1261] My wife's going to kill me for saying this, but we're considering a fourth.

[1262] So we're in that position now where we're like, do we attempt to have a fourth?

[1263] Right.

[1264] We've blessings, beautiful, bring joy to us every day.

[1265] We see him except when it's bedtime, right?

[1266] Like no one's thirsty or hungry than a toddler at bedtime.

[1267] Of course.

[1268] I'm hungry.

[1269] I'm thirsty.

[1270] I got to go to the bathroom.

[1271] I want to give you a hug.

[1272] But we're in that realm now.

[1273] We're like, do we have another?

[1274] Can we balance this?

[1275] Can we maintain it?

[1276] And can I still do what I do at a high level?

[1277] There's a certain responsibility I feel to my family where they need me. And I want to have a really special relationship with all of them.

[1278] And I want to be integral in each of their development.

[1279] But can I do that with an additional slice of the pie of fourth child and also still being ambitious?

[1280] Or ambitious.

[1281] And that's like that's a tough balance.

[1282] trying to figure that out.

[1283] It's like, is the joy weighed against, you know, kind of the lifestyle that we have now?

[1284] Can we maintain this certain level that we've become comfortable with?

[1285] And it's good.

[1286] So, you know, I'm always trying to figure those things out on the fly.

[1287] And so kind of watching you and hearing that you have three kids and you're still moving and shaken and from L .A. to Austin to, you know, doing the UFC and flying all over the world.

[1288] It's a really interesting perspective.

[1289] How do you manage the things that you have on your plate in regards to being successful in so many different realms and still also having healthy relationships?

[1290] Well, I've been really, really lucky.

[1291] First of all, everything I do I like doing.

[1292] It's easy.

[1293] Married?

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] How long?

[1296] 10, 11 years now?

[1297] 11 years.

[1298] But it's easy.

[1299] Like, it's easy.

[1300] Doing this is easy.

[1301] Yeah.

[1302] Doing stand -up.

[1303] It's not easy.

[1304] It requires work.

[1305] but it's enjoyable.

[1306] I love it.

[1307] I love doing it.

[1308] I love doing UFC commentary.

[1309] I wouldn't say it's easy, but it's enjoyable.

[1310] Easy is the wrong word.

[1311] Like, even podcasting.

[1312] It requires focus and thought and preparation.

[1313] Not everybody can do it.

[1314] A lot of people could do it if they put the effort into it, but it's just a matter of, is it something that you enjoy doing and is it something you look forward to even after all?

[1315] I've been doing this podcast for 11 years now.

[1316] I still love doing it.

[1317] It's still fun.

[1318] It's fun.

[1319] I enjoy it.

[1320] So it makes it easy.

[1321] makes it easier.

[1322] So in that regard, like, it's not something that's a labor to me, right?

[1323] All these things are not something that's a labor.

[1324] So I'm very fortunate in that regard.

[1325] But I think that's, like, one of the keys to success is finding the thing that excites you always, finding a thing that's challenging always, a thing that you really enjoy doing, a thing that, like, works for your personality.

[1326] Clearly, you've got that with wrestling.

[1327] And I feel like with a guy like you, what you have is like this, this, incredible vehicle meaning your mind your focus your discipline and all what what you've done with wrestling you could do with anything you just have to find a track that's good the thing is like some people don't find a track some people they get really good at fighting or whatever it is and they that's it they become this bad motherfucker but they that's their identity and they can't figure out a way to focus that like miyamoto musashi he's a famous samurai wrote this book the book of Five Rings.

[1328] It's a great book on strategy.

[1329] And he has this great quote that I remember.

[1330] I read this when I was a little kid.

[1331] When I first got into martial arts said, once you know the way broadly, you can see it in all things.

[1332] And I think that once you get, you find excellence in something like you have in wrestling, you can be excellent in anything, especially wrestling, because it's so fucking hard to do.

[1333] Or there's a level of excellence that you have to kind of weed yourself out, right?

[1334] There's a certain level where you can be successful with just talent and hard work, whatever.

[1335] But then there gets to a place where you have to maintain a multifaceted balanced lifestyle.

[1336] Yes.

[1337] Discipline, mental endurance, freaking, structure, and a great team.

[1338] Diet, focus.

[1339] Everything has to be on point.

[1340] And to be at your level, to be at a world championship level, there can be no holes in your game.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] You don't have the luxury of slacking off.

[1343] Small margin of error.

[1344] Between victory and silver medal.

[1345] Bronze metal, no metal, no metal.

[1346] No metal.

[1347] These margins.

[1348] Gold and going home with a towel over your head.

[1349] Yeah.

[1350] And that can translate into anything.

[1351] You can do that with any business that you start, anything that you pursue, whatever you want to do.

[1352] That's good.

[1353] That's good because, you know, one of the things for me that for a long time made me nervous about the transition out of sport, most people at 30, 34, are settling into what they're going to do forever, or at least until retirement, term right so you spend your 20s having a good time after college you make a little bit money you move to a new city meet new people you start to settle down you finally get that job you get that promotion and now you have this path that you're going to go through until you're 59 and a half but most athletes you're phasing out of what you've done for your entire life at the same time that most people are transitioning into what they're going to do for the next 30 years so it's a very difficult proposition that we are experiencing where I've wrestled since I was six.

[1354] My first weight class is 45 pounds.

[1355] Now all of a sudden, here I am and my wrestling career is over.

[1356] I hang my shoes up and I'm like, what now?

[1357] Where you're in the prime of your life?

[1358] What now?

[1359] Because you have to find something that you're passionate about.

[1360] And my fear is that there may be nothing that I ever experienced that I'm as passionate about as I am the sport of wrestling.

[1361] I am a competitor naturally.

[1362] That's just by nature and I have to kind of broaden my horizons where I'm going to enter with this certain level of excellence into everything that I do which I know if I enter something and I'm going to do wholeheartedly I'm going to be successful at it but the question is do I really love it right so you're trying to find what you love when most people have just found it so the athletic experience is much different than the average Joe experience and so I've seen so many athletes post career spend all their money get depressed you know go into addicting substances and it's a very difficult place that you arrive in when you don't know who you are for so long our identities have been tied to our success everywhere i go people call me champ like i'm not jordan i'm not burrows i'm not jb i'm champ and so when i go out of this phase and i'm no longer looked upon as this iconic wrestling guy who is going to beat the hell out of you every time I deem I need to and I'm just a normal human being.

[1363] How do I make that transition and find what else it is that I am passionate about?

[1364] And so I think now for a long time I've been afraid to think of other things because people are like, no, no, no, you'll have time.

[1365] Like keep the main thing, the main thing.

[1366] Just focus on winning.

[1367] The more you win, the more opportunities you have.

[1368] But then that's how you have the guy that won't retire, overstays is welcome, diminishes and tarnishes the, legacy that he's built for himself because they just won't leave i don't think you have to worry about that i don't i don't fortunately right but just listening to what you're saying right now you've you've already laid out all the pitfalls i've got i've got a great team um i'm a man of faith i've got a great wife who keeps me level headed uh but yeah so i'm always thinking about these things like as we're making this transition so i see athletes and i also see the ones who've done it for a long time but not only that the ones who go on to success after their careers that's what i'm most impressed about how can you elevate your profile when no one's watching you shoot hoops anymore fight you know play like Kobe and you know Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan all these athletes that have parlayed their success as athletes into corporate success elsewhere like that's that's what I love to see that's dope well you just have to find the thing that's that's the difficult thing and you can't look too hard right now because right now you have to focus on wrestling and your family and all the other obligations that you have already but how do you find it that's hard have to you have to dabble yeah simultaneously because you can't just wait until it's over because right then and even if you have done success you have been successfully enough financially where you can buy yourself times like listen I'm good I made a couple million bucks my house to pay for my cars are good kids are in good schools I'm fine for five years right and you'll find alternative ways to make money and still do what you love but the one thing that I don't want to do is do stuff for money or do things that I don't believe in.

[1369] Like, I want to do things that are truly honorable and that I really find our noble pursuits.

[1370] Like, this is what I want to do because I want to do it.

[1371] And so trying to find that thing, I've had to kind of dabble on these other kind of perspectives because as wrestlers, like, you have this generalized idea of what a wrestler is, right?

[1372] It's like, okay, it's kind of like a meathead guy for.

[1373] from the Midwest that grew up on a farm, right?

[1374] And freaking eats T -bone steaks, even the he eats the bones, too.

[1375] And so it's trying to kind of step outside of wrestling.

[1376] One of the things that I've always tried to do is transcend sport, or at least transcend wrestling.

[1377] It's how can I broaden our audience and bring it all back to wrestling so everyone wins?

[1378] We all elevate our profiles simultaneously.

[1379] It's a difficult thing to do, but it's almost been a responsibility that was early on just placed upon me because I was just winning.

[1380] And now, like, I've taken on the responsibility because I want to do it.

[1381] But now I'm like, okay, well, I have to also be the first guy to move on and have success outside of the wrestling forum that's not a coach.

[1382] If you look at the college landscape and college wrestling, the head coaches, most of them are Olympic champions.

[1383] Tom Brands, Kale Sanderson, John Smith, you know, you've got all these guys that wrestled at Iowa, wrestled at, you know, some of the best universities in the country and world.

[1384] Most head coaches were either Division I National Champions or Olympic and World Medalists.

[1385] It's just a natural progression.

[1386] You are a good wrestler.

[1387] You go on and coach and take over university and build this program up.

[1388] But very few people want to kind of explore outside of the realm of just coaching itself.

[1389] And so I'm trying to get to a place where I feel comfortable with being countercultural and doing something different that's almost it's opposed to where I am as a wrestler because most Olympic champions just coach.

[1390] Like what kind of things you're considering?

[1391] That's a good question.

[1392] I told you about my high performance training center.

[1393] I'd like to dabble in.

[1394] That seems like it's right in your wheelhouse.

[1395] That's in my wheelhouse.

[1396] That's something I want to create.

[1397] Like this is the mothership for all things.

[1398] And it will be multifaceted like in capturing all areas of human identity from you know nutrition to spirituality to self -developing all these things because I want you have to create good men and women in order for them be good athletes I think and we still at the highest level you can find it sometimes but I feel like they're weeding themselves out the best athletes that have sustained success are men and women of integrity at least to some degree right like Like, you might see some individuals that, you know, have a bad rap or are engaged in controversy regularly, but they eventually start to lose whatever zest it was that they had for their sport and they can't win for a long period of time.

[1399] But the best, they're not embroiled on controversy.

[1400] Look at LeBron and Tom Brady.

[1401] Like, when have you ever seen them in the news for something crazy they did at home?

[1402] True.

[1403] You just don't see it.

[1404] Right.

[1405] And that's why they're still those guys.

[1406] Yeah.

[1407] And so I think that for me, it starts with.

[1408] a certain level of discipline that you have to give to the youth like hey listen i'm going to teach you how to have mental toughness i'm going to teach you how to be accountable i'm going to teach you how to be disciplined and then we're going to learn athletics how to be great wrestlers afterward because if i can create men and women of character and integrity then essentially they'll become champions naturally because the people i respect most weren't the best athletes like i've wrestled with hundreds of wrestlers in my lifetime and the ones that had the best leadership qualities weren't the ones that were the best wrestlers it was the ones that were low maintenance that did the right things came to practice on time they were good teammates they did well in school they were good leaders they were guys that you just trusted all these things you're saying to me I feel like what I was saying earlier about you doing corporate speaking engagements I think you would be really good at that thanks any corporations out there that are looking for somebody let me think about what you've accomplished let's go and again I mean I don't want to belabor this but to become a world champion wrestler to To win four world champions, to win an Olympic gold medal, you have a mindset that very few people will ever be able to understand without hearing it come out of your voice.

[1409] They're probably not going to understand what it takes to be a person like yourself.

[1410] But you can articulate it.

[1411] And the way you articulate it, it's very inspiring.

[1412] Thanks, man. And you also have a very, like, you have an ethical and a moral vision for the kind of children you want to raise, the kind of athletes.

[1413] you want to train, the kind of people that you admire, all that stuff translates into any other business, any other pursuit.

[1414] Those are like, these are like, these are key components for success.

[1415] It's not just wrestling, right?

[1416] Like what you've achieved in wrestling is because of all these other things, because of the hard work, because of the discipline, because of the focus and the intelligence and all these other aspects of what makes you you, but those things you could teach to people.

[1417] Yeah.

[1418] And you teach clearly by example because of your achievements, but also because of the way you're able to express yourself.

[1419] Yeah.

[1420] And for you to be able to do something like that, to have a training center like you envision, it would be dope, but also I really think you could be very valuable speaking to corporations.

[1421] I appreciate that.

[1422] And you could, all these things that we're talking about today, you could structure this.

[1423] in some sort of a plan where you get in front of these people and give them real tools that they can apply to their life that can improve them in everything they do.

[1424] That'd be fun, man. I'd love it.

[1425] I think that's your thing, man. I'd love it.

[1426] I really do.

[1427] You have to, I've been taught for so long because I'm an athlete.

[1428] I've never worked.

[1429] I had one job when I was 19 years old between my sophomore and junior year.

[1430] Really?

[1431] Ever?

[1432] Your whole life?

[1433] One job.

[1434] For one summer, two months, I worked at a beer distribution factory back in South Jersey.

[1435] We go around on a big trucks every day and we go to all the liquor stores and bars in the town.

[1436] And we would drop off kegs and spike them off the truck and bring them and set up the displays inside liquor stores.

[1437] That was what I did for one summer.

[1438] And I made $13 an hour.

[1439] And so each week I make about $550.

[1440] And I remember at the time, like I thought I was a rich man, bro.

[1441] I was like, let's go.

[1442] I would go to, I take my girlfriend to the mall.

[1443] We go to Arapostal at the time.

[1444] That's what we were wearing, Abercrombie and Fitch, and we would buy a bunch of clothes, and we'd go to the movies, and we'd hang out, and I would spend all $500 in a single week, live in life.

[1445] And so I had to, I have to see myself as this person that can implement different levels of advice and ideas to people that aren't necessarily peers.

[1446] It's easy to talk to a peer.

[1447] it's easy to talk to someone who's younger than you that admires you but it's hard for you i have like this inferiority complex where it's like okay if this person is successful then they already have the tools they don't need me like they know what they're doing so i think that for me finding that niche into where i'm like okay listen you've done well you know things you've experienced them you've lived them firsthand how can you use all of the knowledge that you've gained on your journey to actually help other people they will be willing to listen if you teach it they will listen this is how you do it you teach what you learned yeah what you learned in your life that helped you and just say you don't have to teach them like you need to do this yeah you don't have to do that you say if they ask right if they ask yeah i'm i'm really scared of unsolicited advice that that is one thing that i'm always like why weird you because bro like who wants to hear from someone that you didn't ask for right You know, it's like, I didn't send for you, bro.

[1448] Like, why are you giving me advice?

[1449] I don't want it.

[1450] Right.

[1451] So I'm always trying to be like.

[1452] Oh, giving unsolicited advice.

[1453] Where I'm like, I'm the guy that I have a hard time with telling people what they need to do or what they should do what I think will help improve their lives because that would insinuate that I have a better life and I know more.

[1454] Well, it's also a tricky thing because when you're doing that, like if you have to do it, the type of person that needs that information that's really going to use it, they're going to ask you.

[1455] Yeah.

[1456] They're going to say, hey, man. I really respect you.

[1457] What you've done is amazing.

[1458] How do you do this?

[1459] What are you doing?

[1460] What is your day like?

[1461] How do you start?

[1462] Because they want to know, because they want to do it.

[1463] Not if you, you know, like, if someone doesn't have the desire, if someone doesn't, they don't want to, like, seek out the information.

[1464] Like, you don't want to give it to them because they're not going to do anything with it anyway.

[1465] It's like you're not going to get into someone's head unless they want to let you in.

[1466] Right.

[1467] And the people that want to let you in.

[1468] they're the people that are going to want to ask.

[1469] They're the people who are going to want to listen to you talk on this podcast.

[1470] They're the people that if you did have some sort of a seminar that you did for corporations or for anybody that wants to be motivated and you can explain what you've done in your life and what led you through discipline, what gave you the focus, how you kept that fire alive.

[1471] Those things are inspirational to people.

[1472] Inspiration is fuel.

[1473] Fuel.

[1474] It's one of the greatest things that I personally use.

[1475] like I'm inspired by so many different people I'm inspired by people's discipline and people's achievements discipline is a big thing man it's everything I tell my kids all the time be disciplined or be disciplined so I'm like hey listen like that I have to teach you son like if you decide to do this it's a great phrase you will choose discipline I got that from our pastor love church in west Omaha Todd Doxon so he says be disciplined or be disciplined because we have to teach I have to teach my son like hey bro like there's this world it's hard it's hard dad like that fig bar that you just ate for a snack before bed I had to work hard to get that you know me double legs I had to shoot to get this house but no honestly I always want to give him perspective because as kids they don't really understand I read a book by Dr. Meg Meeker called raising ungrateful kids in an entitled world and or raising great excuse me raising grateful kids in an entitled world.

[1476] And so basically the premise behind the book was how can we provide for our kids a life in which we're creating character, but also give them more than we had?

[1477] There's just so much expectation.

[1478] Like my kids sometimes they're like, just because I exist, this should be afforded to me. I'm like, bro, like, no, that's not how things work here.

[1479] Like, first of all, if you treated any one of your friends, the way you treat mom and dad and your sister sometime at home, they'll beat you up.

[1480] They wouldn't want to spend time with you.

[1481] It's just the bottom line.

[1482] And so I'm always under this mindset and this premise, and I try to do a greater job every day at being a better father that, you know, I don't think people are born good.

[1483] I think people are born bad and then they are constructed to be people of integrity.

[1484] You know, you see the videos and the cute little anecdotes of kids hug in, and smiling with each other.

[1485] It's like, oh, see, kids love each other from jump.

[1486] It's like, if you think people are inherently good, you've never had one Rice Crispy treat left in your cabinet with two hungry kids.

[1487] Because when there's one treat that comes out, they get scrapping.

[1488] They get selfish.

[1489] They're scrapping, bro.

[1490] It's a fight.

[1491] It's a straight up fight.

[1492] And so I have to continuously always try to sharpen and refine them because in our human profile, we're just innate.

[1493] We're within the flesh.

[1494] like we're always going to want to please ourselves and so there are so many times where i'm like bro listen if you just give her the bigger piece now i promise you that you'll be rewarded for it later if you can just treat your mom with character and respect now i promise you that i will reward you later but it's so hard because in their flesh you're like i don't want that she doesn't have the bigger piece you know i don't want to go to bed why does she get a two christmas presence and i got one so i'm just always trying to figure out ways in which that i can implement the things that i've learned but it's hard because no one gives you an instruction manual for parenting.

[1495] Right.

[1496] Like I had my son at, I think I was 25, 26, and I was fresh out of college.

[1497] And I left home at 18 and everything that I learned after 18 was learned in an environment where I was just trying to figure things out on the fly.

[1498] Isn't it crazy?

[1499] So you leave the hot school and are like, here you go.

[1500] No one trains you.

[1501] I'm like, wait, we got to leave.

[1502] We got to take this thing with us.

[1503] They're like, sir, you got to bring the car seat up, put the baby in the car seat, and then you got to walk them down and good luck.

[1504] that's it and like I was still a baby yeah I was still a baby and I was growing and developing myself so I think you get better with each kid each kid gets a better life than the original right the first one's the hardest that's the test that's the test so the baby is like the baby of your family is always going to be the one that gets the best version of you the oldest is going to get the more the roughest the rough draft of yourself and then you're just kind of working from there sometimes the youngest kids are the ones that achieve the most though that's what's interesting yeah it's because like it's a more casual way of raising the kids you're not as worried about them because the first one you're like don't touch that what did he eat so we're gonna watch the third one you're like yeah you can do a backflip go ahead do a backflip listen sometimes all we tell them was like we don't want to go to the urgent care this weekend please like that just doesn't want to go to hospital just as long as there's no blood you can play the floor lava and jump from couch to couch just please don't get hurt don't get cut up yeah yeah it's hard and no one teaches you how to do it and it's the most important thing in the world and that's the weirdest thing about being a parent it's like it's so easy to get someone pregnant so harder harder marriage or parenthood well parenthood is more complicated because you're taking a person who is a tiny little baby and you're teaching them about life and you're talking to them and and you're explaining things, and you're experiencing all the little troubles that they go through and try to talk them through it and try to discipline them and keep them from doing things.

[1505] But I got very lucky with my wife, and she's a great person, and she's a nice person.

[1506] Just one of the best things about her.

[1507] She's so nice.

[1508] She's just so nice.

[1509] She's a nice person, and I get along with her.

[1510] You're so nice.

[1511] She's such a...

[1512] She's a sweetheart.

[1513] She really is.

[1514] But she's also really full.

[1515] funny and really smart i got lucky yeah and i have friends that are not lucky that's a blessing bro is a blessing i have friends that are in a bad marriage you know what you know what i was talking about this with my wife if and this is twofold i don't want to blame this completely on the women because men are the one that decide to court and pursue women but could you imagine how much further or how much lower the divorce rate would be if women said no during the proposal like how much lower would divorce rate be if women said nah too many red flags nah like i'm i'm good like i saw what you did the other day or i ran i went through your phone or this won't make things better this won't improve our relationship i'm pregnant but i i don't want to get married and if men you know consciously thought about the proposal process but i think that this has become such a uh a heralded event that when you get proposed to naturally you're like yes we'll figure it out later where if you just said no now and then you'll figure it out from there there's a christian author jefferson bethke says always say no first and then convince yourself otherwise but don't say yes and then convince yourself not to do it because once you say yes you're so much of the world's problems but come from people saying yes when they don't really want to with everything with everything with everything.

[1516] There's so many responsibilities we take on and we don't really want to do it, but we feel like we should.

[1517] There are things that people romanticize, right?

[1518] Marriage is definitely one of them.

[1519] And then certain jobs are one of them.

[1520] You know, like certain jobs, like becoming successful at a job that's not interesting to you, but everybody's telling you, hey, it's a good job, you should do it.

[1521] And you wind up doing it, and then you're stuck and you don't know how to get out of it.

[1522] And now your life is out of your hands.

[1523] Yeah, but you've got a great wife, and that was a blessing for you because you see firsthand your buddies that are going through struggles and difficulties at home yeah and it's not necessarily just because of their wives either it's because of them too well yeah no it's not the ones it's it's the men yeah but we we overburdened the women when we should be the lead so it's like hey I want to marry you because I promise to change and do better and reflect on the red flags and eliminate them but the women we put them in the position where there's so much pressure that they can't say no so you're like we know that this is something that they desire to have so i think you also just have to find a right person say here i'm going to dangle this carrot out in front of you joe because i know this is what you really want so please forget everything that i've done in the past like i'm a man like before i was married like i came with a lot of baggage but because of the excellence that i wanted to kind of characterize and and have i wanted to change because i wanted to be a good husband I wanted to be a good father I think you're going to do that with everything though I think a person like yourself that has this sort of integrity and focus you're going to do this with everything you do yeah yeah that's what makes a champion I mean really what you want to be is a champion in everything right a champion in life a champion as a father a champion as a parent a champion as a husband a champion as a neighbor a champion as a friend I mean what you're doing is like you're just operating at the highest standards yeah yeah that's why i think you'd be amazing at public speaking i appreciate i really do i think because you really do embody i'm gonna get like i want to take a video like hey listen joe rogan endorse me he said that you have to have me look at this conversation we're having you're so good at this you're so good at your next corporate event how many podcasts have you done before not many you're fucking great at it man look how great you are expressing yourself yeah it's fun it's fun it's fun right but you're great at it you're great at expressing your yourself and you really do live the life that you're talking about and you have the achievement authenticity yes it's important you've got to be authentic authenticity is everything people can see through the facade through the bullshit yeah because they see you I want to talk to you about this this when you're talking about authenticity I want to talk to you about have you ever seen the movie Icarus I have dabbled I'm honestly I don't want to watch it entirely because I would be so angry afterwards it's crazy because i've lost to russians and some of the biggest matches of my career and i know if i saw that i would be so pissed off because they have changed my life in terms of being an Olympic champion being multiple winning more world titles more golds they've taken money out of my pocket notoriety and fame away from me and it has it'll really upset me so that's why i've decided not to It's a good thing to watch just to understand the sophistication involved.

[1524] Let me explain to people that don't know what we're talking about.

[1525] Icarus is a documentary by Brian Fogel, and Brian was a cyclist, and what he did was he decided to do a race.

[1526] And it was for the documentary.

[1527] He did a race completely natural, recorded his results, and then he hired this Russian gentleman who was a part of the Russian, supposedly their anti -doping association.

[1528] Which meant to tell the anti.

[1529] Well, he eventually, as time went on, it got exposed, but he just completely lucked into this situation where he hired this guy to tell him, what should I do?

[1530] His name was Grigory Richenkov, thank you, Jamie.

[1531] Good a man, Jim.

[1532] He is the man. And Gregory told him exactly what he should take and when he should take it and do this and do that.

[1533] And then he was going to do the same race again the following year.

[1534] but juiced up and see what the difference in performance was.

[1535] Along the way, the Sochi Olympics gets exposed that the Russians had cheated.

[1536] And what they had done was it was a super sophisticated scandal where they cut a hole in the wall and they were like transferring the dirty piss through one hole and giving them the clean sample to replace.

[1537] So they had found that there was microscopic scratches in these supposedly impossible to open bottles.

[1538] So the Russians had figured out a way to open.

[1539] these bottles.

[1540] Which, have you seen the real ones?

[1541] Have you ever seen one of the real bottles?

[1542] No, I haven't seen them in the flesh.

[1543] You cannot open them.

[1544] Yeah.

[1545] You can, you will break them if you open them.

[1546] Impossible.

[1547] They, like, have this sophisticated system in there where it's locked into the interlocks with the glass.

[1548] So once you close it as tightly as possible, you cannot reopen it.

[1549] Well, they somehow or another figure to work around to get in there and open it.

[1550] And when they did that, they achieved an unprecedented number of gold medals.

[1551] I mean, they just, they dominated the Sochi Olympics.

[1552] in Russia.

[1553] I'm pissed, bro.

[1554] I'm hot because I'm hot.

[1555] And we know it.

[1556] Like, we know it.

[1557] Pull up.

[1558] I don't even want to get into it.

[1559] Please, get into it.

[1560] So pull up, I lost in the quarterfinals of the Olympic Games in 2016.

[1561] There's a guy named Anwar Godoyev.

[1562] I just want you to see a picture of this guy.

[1563] You tell me. Was this in Rio?

[1564] Was this in Rio?

[1565] In Rio weren't a lot of the Russians, they were kicked out of Rio because of Sochi.

[1566] So they did the most The most failed test By Russia and all Olympic sports First was track and field Second was weightlifting Third was wrestling Wrestling was number three out of all Olympic sports However many programs are I'm sure there are a ton of sports You've talked about it Wrestling was third They pro date All these samples So they're getting popping guys from 2008 2012 and they're saying you know what this guy was on a substance he was on you know some sort of performance enhancing drugs so we're going to strip of him of his metal and we're going to give the guy that took fifth place the bronze medal instead but at that point it's such a different experience you never got to stand on the podium you never got to travel the world and tell everyone about your metal you never got to get that check that was associated with whatever success that you had that sponsor that you missed out of away someone's gold medal and then giving it to you is not the same it's not the same it's not the same so it's it's life -changing experience that you miss out on because these guys are being unhealthy and just straight up cheater so like i let i there's a certain amount of disdain that i have for russia i respect them because they're tremendous wrestlers not everyone cheats not everyone cheats but there are those who do and it's well known in the wrestling community and so at this point we have had to just accept it and try to beat them you just like you just got to beat them because it doesn't matter they are so powerful the iOC is so powerful that regardless of what they do thomas bach and the iOC will never make a stance in which they will completely ban russia so they've banned russia from the Olympic Games, but the athletes that test cleanly can still compete under a different flag.

[1567] So ultimately, it'd be like the independent republic of Russia that they can still compete in, but the Russian flag will not be visible in Tokyo or in Paris in 2024.

[1568] You cannot compete under the Russian national flag.

[1569] Really?

[1570] Done.

[1571] Wow.

[1572] I didn't know that.

[1573] So it's, they've been banned from the Olympic Games.

[1574] They're governing body.

[1575] Russia itself.

[1576] So all Russian athletes will have to go through a testing process and then they will be able to compete as independent athletes under a different flag but not the Russian flag.

[1577] That's bananas.

[1578] And that's how far we've come, bro.

[1579] And like, I've seen so many athletes in track and field and weightlifting and wrestling that have seen other athletes get stripped and then have been given their medals years later.

[1580] And all they get is an Instagram post.

[1581] Yeah, it's not...

[1582] You didn't get a chance to win.

[1583] It's not the same.

[1584] it's sad because it it's the butterfly effect right because it messes up the the the ripple of the entire bracket right so it's like you beat this guy and then all he loses here and this guy goes here and this guy retires or he changes weight classes like there's just so many things that just happen because of this so it doesn't make me happy it doesn't sit well with me but at this point like what do you do like i mean you blow the whistle enough times but you just got to do what you can to to avoid it and that the only way to do it is beat him I think in wrestling we have kind of like the biggest margin of error because just because someone's in great shape doesn't mean you can't beat them in wrestling.

[1585] There's so much precision and technical skill that's associated with it that you can still overcome that steep hill.

[1586] But that's a problem with the Russians as well because they're very proficient.

[1587] They're freaking good.

[1588] They're freaking good.

[1589] So technical.

[1590] The wrestlers in these, you know, provinces and caucuses are insane.

[1591] Insane at the sport.

[1592] Like they, from birth, they are competing and training at the high.

[1593] level it's unlike right like here you got youth sports and you play games and you know I mean you play freeze tag what your buddies at practice and you do a couple of rope climbs you're done like these guys are training like Olympians at eight years old you're doing Brackbridge kickovers and they're learning five point throws and they're just technically savvy at a much earlier age because they're bred for this we think we have it hard here like poverty here is nothing like poverty in other countries especially, you know, in like Ossetia or Chechnya and all these places.

[1594] Like, it's just a different vibe there.

[1595] So they have some amazing wrestlers.

[1596] An amazing motivation, too, with that poverty.

[1597] Oh, it's life -changing.

[1598] They're tied into the government.

[1599] The U .S. is the only country that their Olympic team is not government funded.

[1600] The only country in the world where our Olympic team is funded privately by donations, corporate sponsors.

[1601] That's it.

[1602] we're only country in the entire world every every country and the world has the government funding the way that they operate and making sure that they are competing at a high level that's got to be an incredible disgrace for russia to be eliminated from the 2020 and 24 Olympics yeah well when you stand on top of the podium bro there's a certain amount of pride that comes with seeing your flag raised above all else that is a special moment and so for them i don't know because is it pride or is Is it financial incentive?

[1603] Is it just being an Olympic champion?

[1604] Let me ask you this.

[1605] What if a guy wins in 2008 and pops?

[1606] Like they retroactively test the samples.

[1607] And then is he still capable of competing in the future or is he eliminated forever?

[1608] Well, it depends.

[1609] I mean, if you pop from a few years ago, then maybe, I don't know, maybe they pro date your suspension and say okay every let's say if you got suspended on that day for two years post that day all your results in that period of time will probably be eliminated but i don't think they would say argument but i've also heard the argument that if you're cheating you should be eliminated for life for life and that that's the only way to stop cheaters is that like if you want to stop someone from doing something it's prestigious is the Olympic gold medal that's a death sentence i don't know i know it's death sentence but i mean you you you are you're cheating yeah you're cheating you're cheating It's a thing The whole reason to win the Olympics Is for glory and for the opportunity For sponsorships for Americans And that's why they're doing it, man Well, it's political glory And when Russia had it in the Sochi Olympics It's not like a coincidence They're following that metal count closely, bro Don't let anybody fool you That medal count every year At every Olympic Games Is something that us in the village As athletes and the presidents of each particular respective country They're following that.

[1610] They want to win.

[1611] They want to be the best.

[1612] Of course.

[1613] That's big to them.

[1614] So above all else, some people are willing to take some crazy chances to be successful because they know the incentives that will follow them getting their hand raised.

[1615] But, you know, some people operate with character and they're like, you know what, win or lose, I'm not doing these things.

[1616] I think, though, with Russia, and this was pretty clear because of this documentary.

[1617] They don't have a choice.

[1618] They don't have a choice.

[1619] They don't have a choice.

[1620] Exactly.

[1621] What was this wrestler that you wanted to say?

[1622] What was the video?

[1623] It was Anwar Godoyev.

[1624] Just pull up a photo.

[1625] There's like a very, there's a photo of him.

[1626] He's like super vascular.

[1627] How about Corellin?

[1628] I mean, Corellon's one of the craziest examples ever.

[1629] His parents were tiny little folks.

[1630] They were like 5 '5.

[1631] And he was built like a human panther.

[1632] That's a big fella.

[1633] That's the guy.

[1634] That's achievable naturally with superior genetics.

[1635] I mean, it is possible.

[1636] But if you look at any other, look at all the other Russians that I wrestled over the last.

[1637] over the last decade none of them have that that level of stature but it's it is whatever man like we've exchanged matches he's beating me I've beaten him um but he beat he beat me when it counted at the Olympic Games and so he does look pretty stacked he's uh he's tough man he's a stud and this was in Rio this was in Rio um this is a game change so and you are suspicious I'm a little yeah I am I'm gonna be honest I'm a little suspicious.

[1638] I probably get a lot of heat for it and Russians probably won't be happy with it.

[1639] But even if he didn't test positive then, the odds of him using steroids up before then or using some sort of performing.

[1640] Yeah, it's EPO for training to get to where he got to, like physically.

[1641] Yeah.

[1642] You know, you keep a lot of the gains, no matter what.

[1643] That's the hard part about it is within that space, if you don't have a choice, fine, right?

[1644] You know, Joe, listen, And if you want to be on a podcast, you have to do this.

[1645] Right.

[1646] If the government tells you, hey, you want to compete for the Russian team, you have to take this.

[1647] Or you can go be a construction worker for the rest of your life, making minimum wage.

[1648] You're like, I'll take that podcast.

[1649] Give me that.

[1650] Right.

[1651] So I think it's a very different vibe there.

[1652] Like, they don't have opportunity outside.

[1653] Like, they can't go to university.

[1654] They don't go to school.

[1655] Russian wrestlers don't go to college.

[1656] They don't go to universities and get four -year degrees and get masters and go on to the corporate world.

[1657] They don't do that.

[1658] It's either you are an Olympic champion or they will choose a job for you.

[1659] And it's probably not one that's super enticing.

[1660] Or you will work in some sort of organized, you know, syndicate.

[1661] Yeah.

[1662] It's just different.

[1663] It's different.

[1664] Yeah.

[1665] But, you know, that's the way they operate there.

[1666] It's got to be infuriating for you, though, to see the results like the Sochi Olympics.

[1667] And I understand why you wouldn't want to watch that documentary, but I encourage you to watch it.

[1668] I got to watch it.

[1669] Yeah.

[1670] It's so.

[1671] intense man it makes me uncomfortable because it's hard to i'm not a guy that like is going to accuse someone of something that i can't prove right and that's not proven right it's like this whole election fraud thing it's like no i'm telling you it happened i'm like okay so you know for me to claim that this guy is on steroids just because he's vascular and muscular is a difficult thing for me to do but i've heard so many grumblings for such a long period of time that i'm like bro like come on like at this point after you know all of the the conversations that happened after icarus and after them being suspended and wada and usada covering up all these tests and all this crazy crazy happening in all sorts of sports i'm like bro this state sponsored doping is a real thing they're killing people that are blowing the whistle in russia yep like killing people so i'm like well this gregory guy It's in witness protection in America.

[1672] He's hiding.

[1673] They took all his money away.

[1674] They took his family's home away.

[1675] In Russia, he can't see his family again for the rest of his life.

[1676] Like, it's terrible.

[1677] Situation's terrible.

[1678] Yeah, man, it's wild.

[1679] Yeah, it's funny because I know this is going to cause, like, a stir within the Russian wrestling community.

[1680] So I'm, like, anticipating the backlash that's going to happen immediately after this goes on.

[1681] Well, you are acknowledging their skill, too, though.

[1682] You're doing both.

[1683] Listen, they're tremendous wrestlers, but I stand by what I said.

[1684] That's how I feel, and it is what it is.

[1685] Like, otherwise, there wouldn't be if so many people that have been accused of it.

[1686] Like, if enough people say bad things about you, chances are it might be happening.

[1687] It's like, you're always a common denominator.

[1688] Like, how is that possible?

[1689] So I'm a guy that I'm a purist.

[1690] I always want to operate with integrity because it's just what I do.

[1691] Number one, I love my body, so I'm not going to just put nonsense in it.

[1692] Number two, I want to protect the integrity of the sport, right?

[1693] Like, it's the spirit of the sport.

[1694] We compete to see who really has trained the hardest, who's done the most, sacrificed the most, and been disciplined.

[1695] That's why we do what we do.

[1696] Like, if you're bringing PEDs within the sports world, like, it is very difficult to really judge who the best competitor is.

[1697] And that's what we're trying to do.

[1698] So it's like playing a video game.

[1699] If I'm playing Madden and I got a cheat code and all my guys, stats and attributes are up to 99s and I'm trying to play you with an average roster how can you win right how can you win you can't win you can't win bro so it's it's it's it's it's it's really hard to experience because I've sacrificed all my life to be great at this and so when someone does it the improper way and I don't know what they're doing I don't know how hard they're training but I know what I do personally so yeah it bothers me have you ever had a conversation with a Russian that spoke English about any of this?

[1700] No, I have not, but I probably will soon.

[1701] I know, honestly, I invite, I invite someone from the Russian delegation to have this conversation with me, like, but an understandable one, not one of denial.

[1702] Right, right?

[1703] Like, yeah.

[1704] Not one of denial, like, hey, listen, we have had some guys, this is, they have dabbled in.

[1705] And it's like, we can, I'm not going to be like, see, told you, go get them.

[1706] You know what I mean?

[1707] And it's like, I want a conversation, we're like, damn, okay, I understand, but why?

[1708] But how?

[1709] Okay, now, can we, is it possible that you guys have guys that are not doing this?

[1710] Are they just amazing wrestlers?

[1711] Do they just have the technical superiority?

[1712] And that's why they've been so successful for a long period of time.

[1713] Is that what you have, or is this a large part of what you do?

[1714] And are they forced into it?

[1715] And, you know, their backs are against the wall and, you know, their hands are tied.

[1716] there's nothing they can do about it.

[1717] So I'm willing to have an open conversation to understand it.

[1718] I'm not just out here accusing them for the sake of making them look bad.

[1719] Because I've seen them train, they work hard.

[1720] I've seen them learn technique, and I've seen the structure and the system and systematic approach they have to their sport.

[1721] They're great at their craft.

[1722] But I also have seen guys that have been jacked up, and then I've seen them post -career, and they look puny.

[1723] And I'm like, man, how do you?

[1724] is that possible right so i'm just i'm trying to navigate the different dynamics of this whole experience without being this jerk that's like hey you guys are no good because they're good wrestlers well they're great wrestlers and they're very technical but they're also a part of a program that has been proven to be corrupt yeah i mean i don't think that's an unfair thing to say particularly when you pay attention to what happened at the sochi olympics and pay attention to the fact what you just said that in 2020 and 2024 they can't fly the Russian flag that's not discrimination that's not it's a punishment it's a punishment it's punishment from mass mass state sponsored doping it's half it's happening yeah it's real it's real it's real it's real bro yeah I mean the documentary I'm telling you man please watch it it's bonkers I watched it like this the whole time my mouth was wide up like what oh and the guy just stepped in shit the guy making the dot Brian Fogel just lucked into the craziest story that state sponsor here usada they don't care about us like they don't care about the athletes so whoever pays WADA there whoever you know is taking the test they either are so fearful or they're just in caho and they're getting well the IOC and WADA they switch executives back and forth that was also a part of the thing they discussed it's like people from Wada go to work for the IOC IOC people go to work.

[1725] I've never gotten any breaks here and I've never seen anyone in the wrestling community at least American wrestling get any breaks from USADA.

[1726] They are always at our heads.

[1727] Same with the UFC.

[1728] So I'm like...

[1729] Usada tests UFC fighters.

[1730] I've never seen a break.

[1731] So when I see that, I'm jealous, bro.

[1732] Because I'm like, this dude probably has to train less.

[1733] He probably doesn't have to update his whereabouts.

[1734] I mean, he doesn't have someone following him around, doesn't have to, you know, Have a phlebotomist take blood and, you know, collect urine samples all the time.

[1735] And, you know, there's one day, one week.

[1736] I got tested like four times in the same weekend.

[1737] Why?

[1738] And I'm like, I'm asking the same thing, bro.

[1739] I'm like, why?

[1740] I tested yesterday.

[1741] Yesterday.

[1742] How, what could I have taken between yesterday and today that it would have enhanced me so much that I could have won today?

[1743] I'm sure there's some things.

[1744] Yeah, but the fact that we want to take that risk.

[1745] So they're probably thinking like, oh, let's see if someone does it right after we test them.

[1746] We'll test them again the next day, just in case.

[1747] Just in case.

[1748] But still, that's crazy.

[1749] They're not doing that in Russia.

[1750] So I'm like, no. I guarantee that whoever I have to compete against is not up at 5 a .m. With a dude banging on their door.

[1751] That's a problem, too, though.

[1752] Why the fuck do they think that that's okay to interrupt your sleep?

[1753] I actually do that purposely.

[1754] So I put them early because at any other time of the day, you have to let them know where you are.

[1755] So let's just say you tell them, I'm going to be at the crib today.

[1756] Then all of a sudden, you're like, shoot, I ran out of batteries.

[1757] I got to run the target real quick.

[1758] And then they show up at your house as soon as you pull off your block.

[1759] And now they're waiting for you, and you're gone, and there's traffic, and the lines long.

[1760] And all of a sudden, it takes you an hour and a half what you thought was going to be a 20 -minute ride.

[1761] And they only give you an hour window.

[1762] So now you get back and they're gone.

[1763] You have to report all of your whereabouts, not just what city you're in?

[1764] All of your whereabouts.

[1765] Oh, that's so crazy.

[1766] So you have to give them an hour time.

[1767] that you're at home every day.

[1768] So there's an hour window every single day.

[1769] And you test quarterly.

[1770] Or you update your whereabouts quarterly.

[1771] So every three months you do your whereabout update, you give them an hour slot.

[1772] I try to put it as early as possible because I'm like, I'm going to be in bed.

[1773] There's no way I'm going to be out of my house between 5 and 6 a .m. I'm always going to be.

[1774] Oh, my God.

[1775] But then they interrupt your sleep.

[1776] They do.

[1777] And they knock like the police.

[1778] Shout out Dave Carl.

[1779] You saw it.

[1780] Boom, boom, boom, boom.

[1781] Doorbell, doorbell.

[1782] Boom, boom.

[1783] kids are up they're crying they're in our bed they're in downstairs but i try to do it early so two things i know i'm home and i know i'll have to pee if they wake me up out of my sleep i haven't taken my first pee of the morning is it a blood test in the morning as well sometimes it depends they've just recently started doing blood tests over like the last year so and so like they're on you so there've been a lot of people that have been suspended just because they didn't update their worryabouts so like you'll go somewhere and you'll be like um right here i'm like i'll be home today And then all of a sudden our podcast runs long.

[1784] I'm here for three, four hours.

[1785] And they're at the crib waiting and no one's home.

[1786] Well, I've talked to finders that when they had to choose between UFC and Bellator, there was two decisions, two things that led them towards Belator.

[1787] One, sponsors, they could have their own sponsors, whatever sponsors they like.

[1788] They don't have to be tied to Reebok.

[1789] And two, no USADA.

[1790] So they don't have everybody banging on their door.

[1791] They just get normal drug tests.

[1792] Normal drug tests when they have weigh -ins and that.

[1793] So crazy story.

[1794] one time I got tested I was just graduating from college I was living in an apartment on my own I was still single and I went out the night before I was like out with some friends at the bar having a few beers and I left my keys in the bar lost my keys so I had to sleep in our locker room I slept in our locker room at the university and so I remember waking up the next morning it was the guy from you saw to Dave like hey hey J .B. I'm at your house and you have an hour to get here.

[1795] And I'm like, I don't have my keys.

[1796] I can't even get into my house.

[1797] And so I call Dave.

[1798] I'm like, Dave, I lost my keys last night.

[1799] I really don't know where there are.

[1800] Is there any way else we can get tested?

[1801] And he was like, yeah, if you can just find a bathroom somewhere else, you can get tested.

[1802] So there's a Panera bread right down the street from my house.

[1803] So I'm like, all right, Panera.

[1804] We go to Panera bread.

[1805] We get there.

[1806] So if you know anything about you started testing, they have to watch you pee.

[1807] And so, bro, Super random.

[1808] I'm in Panera bread down the street from my house with two dudes.

[1809] This guy's behind me. It's like, all right, I need you wash your hands.

[1810] Put your cup up here.

[1811] All right, pull your pants down to your knees.

[1812] I got my pants down to my knees.

[1813] Down to your knees.

[1814] Yeah, because they have to make, you can't just like fly.

[1815] Like, it's got to be, and they need to see you actively pee in this cup.

[1816] That's hilarious.

[1817] I'm in Panera bread with this guy behind me, pants down to my knees, like, down the street from my crib.

[1818] Like, super embarrassed.

[1819] I'm like, please, God, no one will walk in here.

[1820] Are you in a stall, at least?

[1821] In a stall, yeah, yeah, in a stall.

[1822] Because if you were in front of the urinal, everybody'd be like, what are these?

[1823] Are you okay?

[1824] Do you need help?

[1825] I'm like, I'm good.

[1826] I know this guy.

[1827] Do you still need help?

[1828] He's just checking him, make me pee.

[1829] Yeah, it was interesting times, bro.

[1830] But, yeah, you know, I pride myself on what I put into my body, taking care of what I do.

[1831] And that's why I'm always weary out of respect to, you know, kill Cliff and what you guys have provided.

[1832] Oh, I get it.

[1833] I'm always just like, if I don't know it and it's not my own, I don't eat it.

[1834] You should be wary.

[1835] Yeah, look, a lot of UFC fighters have been popped for accidental, you know, cross -contamination.

[1836] Dick pills.

[1837] Yeah.

[1838] A lot of things happen.

[1839] I'm okay in that department.

[1840] There's, I'm really concerned about gene therapy.

[1841] I'm really concerned about what we're ready for soon because of there's things like CRISPR and these gene editing tools.

[1842] I'm concerned with super athletes that are going to be produced by other countries.

[1843] Before we get a chance to do that in the next 20 years or so.

[1844] Yeah, I really think that.

[1845] I think the kids that are developing right now, there's all sorts of different genes that they could alter, switch on, switch off, myel statin inhibitors.

[1846] All these different things can enhance.

[1847] Is it that serious, though?

[1848] What do you mean?

[1849] Like, is, why has, I mean, there's a ton of billions of dollars in athletics?

[1850] There's so much money.

[1851] Well, think about it this way.

[1852] How about it this way?

[1853] Put it this way.

[1854] Think about how much money they earn in the Olympics and how little they give to you.

[1855] Just think of that.

[1856] Think of the athletes.

[1857] Who the fuck?

[1858] Who's making money in the Olympics?

[1859] I'll tell you who should be making the money.

[1860] The athletes should be making most of the money.

[1861] But they're making none of it.

[1862] It's crazy.

[1863] It's the biggest scam in all of athletics.

[1864] You have this thing.

[1865] Oh, nice.

[1866] You get a beautiful medal.

[1867] How much is that cost?

[1868] You've got to think about how much attention If you have the Olympics, you have a guaranteed audience.

[1869] People want to see it.

[1870] There's nationalism and pride.

[1871] And everybody wants to see all these different sports that maybe they enjoy.

[1872] Maybe it's gymnastics.

[1873] Maybe they used to swim.

[1874] They want to watch wrestling.

[1875] And no one's getting paid.

[1876] And they're just raking in all the cash.

[1877] They got fucking commercial after commercial.

[1878] It's sponsored by this company.

[1879] And their banners are here.

[1880] And there's so much money.

[1881] And the athletes don't get any.

[1882] of it.

[1883] It's crazy.

[1884] I get it.

[1885] So when you have all this nationalism and all this national pride from Russia and China and all these different countries, you don't think they're going to do some gene editing.

[1886] You don't think they're going to take, look, look, I'm going to tell you a story about Yoel Romero.

[1887] You know Yoel Romero, right?

[1888] Yoel Romero is tested by Usada all the time, right?

[1889] He's clean, and no one believe he's clean because he is one legitimate freak of nature.

[1890] If you look at him, Yoel Romero went to a doctor once because the UFC, he's a lot.

[1891] He's a He had fractured his orbital in a fight.

[1892] Yel O. Romero, they brought him to his doctor.

[1893] The doctor examines him and then calls the UFC and goes, where did you get this guy?

[1894] And they go, what do you mean?

[1895] And he goes, he is a specimen.

[1896] And they go, yeah, he's amazing, right?

[1897] He goes, no, no, no, you don't understand.

[1898] I've never seen a human like him.

[1899] The guy's like, I have been working on people for decades.

[1900] He goes, the tendons in his eye are three times larger than a normal person's.

[1901] Like, everything about him is freakish.

[1902] but that's just genetics Some women are born with giant tits Some people have crazy big noses Right?

[1903] Yoel Romero is just a freak What if you developed A whole army of Yuel Romero's?

[1904] Yeah I mean it's possible What if you figured out how to turn on all these genes What if you looked at what he does What I mean he's a perfect physical specimen What if you took that perfect physical specimen And you recreated Yes Or Kobe or LeBron James LeBron James is a giant super athlete.

[1905] What have you took that and just made thousands of them?

[1906] And you populated your whole team.

[1907] And put them all on Fight Island.

[1908] Made your own country.

[1909] Like a Bruce Lee movie.

[1910] I mean, I don't think that's outside of the realm of possibility.

[1911] And that's what I'm concerned with.

[1912] What I'm concerned with is that over here, we're using Usada knocking on doors at 5 o 'clock in the morning.

[1913] And there's countries that have less morals and ethics.

[1914] And they're not even thinking about right now.

[1915] Yeah.

[1916] Our country is trying to bust our athletes.

[1917] Their country is trying to help them cheat.

[1918] I mean, how crazy is that balancing act?

[1919] Yeah.

[1920] That's a crazy balancing act.

[1921] And even though the United States is obviously very competitive in the Olympics and does amazing and wins a shitload of gold medals and has amazing athletes, you've got to think that these countries that are using these new tools, if they get ahead of us with this kind of shit, I mean, it could be real weird.

[1922] I don't think we'll ever lose, though, bro.

[1923] Like we have, I mean.

[1924] That's because you got that championship mindset.

[1925] You don't give a fuck.

[1926] Listen, we're going to get it.

[1927] And that's what America stands for.

[1928] Yeah.

[1929] What we have is we are always in great shape and we're tough.

[1930] Tough is nails.

[1931] We're going to fight to the death every single time.

[1932] So like, no matter how savvy you are, technically skilled, how much access to resources you have, it's always going to be a fight whenever you wrestle an American.

[1933] Right.

[1934] But remember how you feel.

[1935] about that Russian that might have been on some shit.

[1936] And if he was in your head when you lay in bed and you think you lost that guy and you look at how he looked and you look at how muscular and vascular he was, maybe he's a Yoel Romero or maybe he's a test.

[1937] Maybe he's a science project.

[1938] Yeah, that's true.

[1939] That's true.

[1940] I, I, we have so much access here that I can't ever imagine a country being better than us at anything, just because we have so much structure, we have such great coaching, and we just have such a melting pot of individuals that are making freakish babies all the time.

[1941] So it's like, if you go to Russia, you go to any of these countries, they're not melting pots like we have.

[1942] So there's athleticism and the genetics have not been broadened so much so, because there's just a small pool of a small gene pools that have kind of interbreeded with each other for thousands of years but here in america we have people from everywhere that have interbred and created such amazing athletes you look for the smallest athlete in the world like simone byles who's considered one of the best athletes in the world to the biggest like lebron james you know it's amazing what we've been able to create here domestically because no other country has that sort of interracial breeding that we have and we have such a profound focus on sport too like everyone plays sports like who very few people that you'll ever meet that never played a sport in their entire lives that's true i mean you're making real good points and uh listen no one is more pro america than me people have to say that america america i love america i just love the concept of it i love the fact that it's a country filled with immigrants that literally I like it.

[1943] Everyone came here.

[1944] I mean, obviously the origins suck.

[1945] But what it is now is the best idea of people coming from all other parts of the world, trying to seek opportunity and trying to do better for their life and their families.

[1946] That's the best part of what America is.

[1947] But I'm just saying when it comes to competitive international sports, I'm really worried about gene doping.

[1948] I'm really worried about that shit.

[1949] I'm going to come see you 20 years from now.

[1950] We'll see.

[1951] when they finally unleashed their army genetically modified a fucking team full of Corellins it's like i robot right and they just come off the assembly line like I really think it's inevitable with this technology I think it's inevitable whether it's 20 years from now or 30 years from now whatever it is yeah I think I mean I think it's going to be inevitable for the public for people too I think you know like right now because how would you do that here sounds expensive well I think it's expensive in the beginning but I think like cell phones when they first came out were expensive and now everybody has one you know remember the old do you ever see that movie um wall street with gordon gecko he had the big john the purse like with the big brick and everybody's like look at him he's talking it doesn't even have a cord he's out on the beach this is amazing yeah now everyone has a little phone yeah and it's way more powerful technology always improves and then eventually trickles down to everybody else the problem is the advantages the people who are the initial early adopters will have will allow them to accumulate so much wealth and so much success that by the time it trickles down the game will already be rigged that's a real worry it's a real concern when it comes to the haves and the haves knots when it's implementing technology that changes your biology yeah and I think that's coming man I really do the thing is the alt what's the alternative right let's say you are because there's so many things that you can't you can't trigger yourself so if you just because we put a LeBron James and Serena Williams together doesn't mean that they're going to create a freak.

[1952] Like, chances are they may. They're going to create a freak.

[1953] Well, more opportunities present themselves, but every person is different.

[1954] You look at, I want you to go and take families, like, you have some, for example, right?

[1955] People vary, yeah.

[1956] The Mannings and the Grankowski's and the Joneses, but there are a lot of families that have a tremendous athlete, and then they have an average athlete.

[1957] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1958] Or no athlete, period.

[1959] My parents didn't even play sports in high school.

[1960] My parents didn't play sports in high school.

[1961] Really?

[1962] No. That's crazy.

[1963] And like now given my dad had a tall, my dad's 6 -2, he had like a tall frame, long arms.

[1964] My mom's short, but what they created was me. And my sister, so I have three older siblings.

[1965] I was, I came from a non -traditional household, kind of like a fragmented family.

[1966] My dad had two.

[1967] My mom had one.

[1968] They were married.

[1969] They had me. and so I have no full -blooded relatives only halves only have siblings but all of us very an athletic degree my sister and I who were raised in the same household she dabbled in basketball a little bit was decent my brother he was always the better athlete of the two of us he was solid he played football ran track and then my oldest sister never really played sports at all she grew up in the city but anyway for me growing up I was the run like I was always small I never was really strong never was a physical specimen but I'm still not a physical specimen but in relation to wrestling I am so like if you saw me play basketball you're like this dude is terrible he's all he's not an athlete but if you see me wrestle you're like damn you know I mean so it's like there's it's in relation to what you do you would consider yourself an athlete So, you know, while I always wonder what pulls or help someone gravitate to a particular sport, did I, am I great at wrestling because I just had the frame for it?

[1970] Or did wrestling for so long help me to establish these certain dynamics of my athleticism that were unleashed and unfolded once I actually committed to the sport of wrestling?

[1971] I think you're great at wrestling because of your mind.

[1972] I mean, I think obviously, there are some physical.

[1973] attributes that.

[1974] Sure.

[1975] You have, but a lot of people have those.

[1976] That's true.

[1977] And they never get anywhere.

[1978] That's true too.

[1979] It's your mind.

[1980] It's, look, at the elite level, at the elite level, and this is the same with MMA, you have to have everything.

[1981] Yeah.

[1982] You can't get by.

[1983] You can't beat a John Jones unless you have everything.

[1984] You have to have everything.

[1985] You can't just.

[1986] Consistently.

[1987] Yes, consistently.

[1988] You can't just be a good physical specimen.

[1989] You have to have the mind.

[1990] There are a lot of specimens.

[1991] A lot of specimens.

[1992] A lot of specimens.

[1993] A lot of specimens.

[1994] And when you get to like a real, like, world, class level, everybody's a fucking specimen.

[1995] They're all specimens.

[1996] So you can't just attribute it to your body, which obviously you're gifted athletically, but it's the mind.

[1997] And I think because I didn't grow up as a specimen, help me to develop my mind.

[1998] Because I was never the biggest.

[1999] I always had to play catch up with my older siblings.

[2000] Always wanted to prove myself to my dad.

[2001] And so it was always a different level of experience that I had in comparison to my teammates, where I would see them skip runs.

[2002] I see them hide in the hallways during, you know, mile runs inside of our high school.

[2003] I would see them, you know, hang out in the locker room long when we were doing conditioning after practice.

[2004] And I was like, I didn't have that luxury because I thought in order for me to win, I had to outwork everyone because I was small.

[2005] Right.

[2006] I was small.

[2007] So it took me a long time to be the best.

[2008] Like, I only won one state title in high school.

[2009] And it was my senior year.

[2010] I didn't win a state championship until I was a senior.

[2011] I've won more world championships than I did state championships.

[2012] That's crazy.

[2013] Crazy because I, how I got to this level, like, I was, I wasn't the best growing.

[2014] I was never the best.

[2015] So I had to develop, like, mentally.

[2016] And it was just like something that through years and years of concerted effort, it was never like this aha moment.

[2017] Like, damn, I'm really good now.

[2018] Well, that is a thing you see with really, really talented people.

[2019] Yeah.

[2020] That sometimes really talented people that are just natural, they never go far.

[2021] Yeah.

[2022] And sometimes...

[2023] You always have that.

[2024] Yeah, and it comes too easy.

[2025] It's when you hear the gamers.

[2026] Like, oh, this guy's a gamer.

[2027] Don't worry about him.

[2028] He'll be ready.

[2029] He'll be on when the lights arrive and you lock the cage behind him.

[2030] But how often can you do that?

[2031] Well, the problem is other people are gamers and they're also disciplined.

[2032] And that guy's going to fuck you up.

[2033] You got the disciplined gamer.

[2034] It's like...

[2035] Like, when you get a guy like a Michael Jordan, like what creates a guy like Michael Jordan, extreme competitiveness plus physical gifts?

[2036] Plus discipline, plus the mind, the intelligence to figure out the correct path to get to the hoop.

[2037] The intelligence to figure out what's the right strategy to trick someone and go this way when you want to go that way.

[2038] What's the right tactics to implement in a fight?

[2039] What's the right move to use at the right time?

[2040] There's so much.

[2041] So much.

[2042] So these gamers?

[2043] Well, this guy's a fucking gamer too, but he's been working and you've been slacking.

[2044] You know, you've been doing things you shouldn't have done.

[2045] you've been partying, you've been doing whatever, and you thought you can get by because you think you're the fucking man. Well, he thinks he's a fucking man too.

[2046] But he's been sleeping, he's been eating right.

[2047] But there's certain prerequisites that you have to possess in order to be great.

[2048] So let's say you have a guy that is those things, all of those things, tremendous success.

[2049] You have a guy who's just a gamer, super talented, doesn't really want to work hard, has moderate success, can become a champion, loses his belt the very next defense.

[2050] And then you have a guy who works significantly hard, but he just has, he's not a specimen.

[2051] Yeah, that happens too.

[2052] He just doesn't have the athleticism.

[2053] So I've seen some of the hardest working guys ever do everything that I do, but they just can't win.

[2054] They can't do it, yeah.

[2055] They just can't win.

[2056] Life is not fair.

[2057] It's not fair.

[2058] It's not fair.

[2059] And that's what's scary for me with my boy, because I'm like, I'm Olympic champ.

[2060] Expectations are for him to be an Olympic champ.

[2061] There's no father, son, Olympic gold medalist combinations.

[2062] It's impossible.

[2063] but I want him to be great at something what that's going to be I don't know he plays soccer I never play soccer he plays a violin I never played an instrument so there is so some things that he's fine tuning that I never got a chance to have access to so I'm hoping that we can find something that he'll be great at but he loves wrestling well I think the best gift that you can give him is just encourage him to find his path yeah yeah the problem isn't even the shadow of a great man you know like that's a it's a it's a quote I forget who said it but find me a great man who's the son of a great man it's very hard that's hard it's very hard it's very hard but when you say that success beget success you want to be you want to be who you are and you have so many inspirational people sit in this chair yeah but that's a different animal they're not my dad i know but it's the thing is growing up developing your developmental cycle with a great man it's very hard for me because men want to be the lion right that's why that's why the lion kicks the young lines out of the fucking den like get out of here bitch right because you can't be the king i'm the king you can't be the king well this is a part of growing up as a man you know and some some men know how to navigate that with their children and they figure it out they figure out a damn let their son it is deep that's deep you got to know when to like back off that's a heavy burden to carry but you also have to have the respect of your son too like they have to respect you they can't disrespect you and there's an instinct to disrespect the the man to prove that you're the man so it's tricky that's right it's not even being a bad person it's a genetic instinct that my wife's got to kind of curb me a lot too because she's like listen do you want your son to be a great athlete do you want to have a great relationship with him and she's like you have to that's deep she's you have to treat him with respect so the thing that we're on now is don't humiliate him especially in front of people you talk to him the way that you want him to be addressed by other men was you want another man talking to your son that way and so she always challenged me that way it's like hey listen that's very wise if you want him to be a leader at someday someday he can't have this subservient attitude and bow to authority because you've always been at his head for so long you have to allow him to grow up and for him to operate as a man and you have to treat him with respect you can't humiliate him in front of people you can't belittle him you have to treat him like a man i know it's hard i know he's frustrating and hard to raise but he's six he's not doing this to spite you he's just six he doesn't understand so at some point you know do you want him to love and hug you as an old man or do you want him to say what's up dad you know i want hugs i want an intimate relationship with my son i hope that your wife is very wise yeah she's a very woman that's a great perspective too she's a good woman sometimes it's hard when you're in the middle like you know i have children i know what it's like when you're in the middle of raising kids like there's chaos and this one wants attention while you're upset with this one and then there's another one behind you breaking glasses kids are crazy they're wild they're little people and they have their own little challenges and they have their own I mean every little child is the master of their own little world and it's very difficult to manage all of those simultaneously and but what she said about your kid that's very wise and I think that's whatever your kid does he's going to understand like I said about what you do that there's there's a certain requirement for excellence yeah you know and who you are as a man not just as an athlete but who you are as a man is going to reflect yeah that's real that's real and that's the hardest part about this is not only how do i want to present myself to the world how do i want to present my kids to the world i put some pressure on my boy you know i'm like hey listen when you leave this house you represent the bro's name and that's that's big shoes to fill but bro like listen people do either one or two things they either fold because of pressure or they rise to expectations you have the ability to be great i'm going to put you in position to be great i promise you if you listen to your mom and dad you will have a great life because i'm going to do my due diligence with my faith with my reading with the things that i learned to make sure that i put you in position to be successful all i ask is that you work hard and that you treat people with respect and that you listen to mom and dad you listen to us your life will be great And so I'm trying to teach him that, but he's still, you know, he's sick.

[2064] So he's combative a little bit, and he's trying to figure things out.

[2065] Right.

[2066] Every six -year -old is.

[2067] Yeah, yeah, I know, right?

[2068] You take it personal sometimes, though.

[2069] You're like, no, there's no other six -year -old kid.

[2070] Like, he did down purpose.

[2071] He spilled the milk on the floor because he knew I had a long practice last night.

[2072] And sometimes there's a little of that, too.

[2073] Sometimes they cause a little trouble just to get some extra attention.

[2074] Yeah, that's it, bro.

[2075] That's it.

[2076] And it's rewarding, too, though, man. I mean, when your kids hug you, I'm sure.

[2077] Like, for me, when I come home.

[2078] and they run to me and hug me it's the greatest feeling on earth this these little people that you created and they love you people they love you so much they just can't wait to hug you I know and you have fun with them it's like it's a beautiful thing man and a lot of people you know they're they're going through it with varying degrees of stress and their life and bad relationships and you and I are both very lucky that we have good relationships yeah yeah you need them bro yeah you need that man that that helps you more than anything in life to achieve and I'm I remind my wife with that all the time that she's one of the reasons why I can be successful.

[2079] I don't have this other conflict that I have to deal with all the time.

[2080] Like I say, I have friends that are in bad relationships, and it hampers other things they do in their life.

[2081] Are they successful?

[2082] Some of them are, and some of them aren't.

[2083] And some of them probably should be more successful than they are.

[2084] And I think that bad relationship thing, that extra conflict, like if you only have, you have a certain amount of bandwidth for your resources like yeah i use this point all the time but i'll say it again if you have like a say if the the amount of resources you have in your mind and put it in a number like a hundred units well if you have a shit relationship that's just eating up 30 units no matter what you do you only have 70 units and then the guy down the street who has a great relationship with his family and his wife that guy's got a hundred units and that guy's has an advantage if you're both doing the same things he has more resources to apply to his thing because he doesn't have this constant mobbing distraction and angst and this thing.

[2085] You can't wait.

[2086] He doesn't want to go home.

[2087] His fucking wife's home.

[2088] He wants to go to the bar and pound shots.

[2089] What the fuck am I doing, man?

[2090] Why did I do this?

[2091] That's a lot of people, man. You know what's crazy, though, is like, you need a wife that understands your ambition.

[2092] Understands that you're driven.

[2093] And that's why my wife's been such a blessing because I was an Olympic champion before we were married.

[2094] And so initially when I was courting her, we're like, okay, where are we going to live?

[2095] what are we going to do?

[2096] Am I going to be able to continue to pursue my career?

[2097] And for a while, it was a battle because, you know, she extremely smart.

[2098] Master's degree from Columbia in journalism wrote for the Buffalo newspaper.

[2099] And she had to make this transition where she had built this reputation for herself to now all of a sudden she leaves her home of Buffalo, New York, comes to live with me in Lincoln, Nebraska, and no one knows her.

[2100] And so there was times where we would conflict and battle because people would be like, man, you're so lucky, like you married J .B. and she'd be like well i had a life of my own right i was an individual that was driven and i had people that recognized me and i've won awards and done tremendous things and it took a while for us to really kind of settle into this space where i encouraged her to come alongside with me and where she could kind of be that helped me and make the necessary sacrifices for our relationship and man women lose so much in marriage bro like i love what we're able to do and provide as the breadwinners and make sure our families are taken care of but women lose so much bro of their identity they lose their name they lose their families and whatever dreams it was that they possessed before they married us a lot of times they lose that because now they're at home with the kids taking care of them while we're out pursuing our aspirations and so for me it was important to bring my wife alongside me it was like this isn't just my thing this is our thing when i wrestle we all wrestle when i win we all win as opposed to hey i got to go to practice see you later like that's why wherever i go my family comes with me, all competition and host training camps because it's easy to have that conflict where when I'm in the wrestling room, I feel like I need to be with my fan.

[2101] When I'm with my fam, I feel like I need to, you know, be in the wrestling room training.

[2102] So I think the great thing about having a great wife is she understands that this is what I love to do.

[2103] This is what makes me feel purposeful and passionate.

[2104] And so she allows me to do that because she knows that when I return home, I'm going to give my best effort because I'm whole because I've been able to do what I love and there's no resentment built up but if she's taking me away from that she's going to be I'll be half of myself and it'd be really hard for me to coexist there I mean I totally understand and I think it points to what we're saying earlier that you are a champion in life yeah you and you apply the same principles that led you to become a champion wrestler to become a human being that does the right thing a human being that behaves their best that thinks their best that does the right things and that is why I think you should go into public speaking because I think you can teach that shit there it is again that's three times got to go now I think you can man that's what I listen I always think of athletes in terms of like what they're going to do when it's over because I've seen a lot of bad stories it's particularly with fighters well particularly with fighters with nobody wants to talk about a lot of them are mentally compromised after their career's over they're dealing with depression they're dealing with headaches, they're dealing with traumatic brain injury.

[2105] Some of them get treatment.

[2106] Some of them don't.

[2107] Some of them start drinking.

[2108] So you think CTE exists?

[2109] It's 100 % real.

[2110] And the UFC?

[2111] 100%.

[2112] There's no doubt about it.

[2113] If you're getting hit in the head, you're getting traumatic brain injuries.

[2114] There's no doubt about it.

[2115] I mean, you watch some of these fights that are so exciting.

[2116] Look, for the majority, they're going to be fine, and they'll know when to get out, and there's modalities, there's different recovery methods, there's different things you can do to try to help yourself and to achieve a healthy life and it can be done but there's guys who don't do that and there's guys who stay in too long and there's guys who take those extra shots to the head when they shouldn't and there's guys who they have bad training methods where they slug it out and training that's real common as well so they're they're going into fights already concussed they're going into fights with already taking too many shots that some guys lose their career in the training room because in the training room they just they're they're they're They're going a war.

[2117] They're beating the shit out of each other.

[2118] They're going full blast.

[2119] And then there's other guys who are training and fighting intelligently, and they have much longer careers.

[2120] That's why I love what Connor's doing right now.

[2121] And I just follow him on social, so I don't really know personally.

[2122] But it seems like he's very strategic about what he does now.

[2123] Because he's got a lot of money, right?

[2124] When you get money, you start to think about things differently.

[2125] You don't have to grind like you used to.

[2126] But you also can bring a certain level of professionalism around what it is.

[2127] is that you do.

[2128] So, you know, wrestling is kind of a primitive sport.

[2129] We're just get in the room, bang it out for a couple hours, do a bunch of sprints on the bike, and you go home, where I feel like guys like Connor now, or they're starting to have a nutrition or a nutritionist or a dietitian, they've got wrestling coach, boxing coach, jiu -jitsu coach.

[2130] And then he, the camp is surrounded around him.

[2131] Like, he's not in a room with 12, 15 other guys that are just like rolling around and, you know, with a single.

[2132] coach he's like i need a one training partner for each discipline and that's it and i think that that's how it goes and that's how it should go you shouldn't have to take reps shouldn't have to have people punching you right you shouldn't have to have people double -legging you you know into the wall and putting you down you should be doing all of the reps well you get they're going to have to do that too though you need mma sparring you need something but that's but controls barring because you need someone who's going to come into the room and say listen this is connor bro like you're not here to film this and become a star on the internet that's true but let me tell you some foras the hobby who's like one of the greatest himma coaches of all time foras used to pay people to try to knock george st pierre out and he said you have to put george in danger he goes he goes you can't just let him think that he's going to be okay and let him coast he goes i want you to put george in danger he's like i will i will give you more money if you can knock him out yeah i will give you a reward did george know i don't know if he told george if george if George didn't know, I think that would be...

[2133] He might have told him.

[2134] That would be pretty cool, actually.

[2135] I think he might have told him.

[2136] I'm not sure, but I know that George is aware of it now.

[2137] And I know that it made George one of the greatest MMA fighters of all time, but not always.

[2138] They don't always spar like that.

[2139] George, all right, it's going to be easy, light spar, just have a good time.

[2140] No, no, no, no. He wouldn't lie to him.

[2141] And then he goes to the guy, like, kill him.

[2142] No, he wouldn't lie to him.

[2143] But his, Ferras is very intelligent.

[2144] And Farras's perspective was you have to simulate danger.

[2145] You have to produce danger.

[2146] You're going to experience danger inside that octagon, and it can't be an unique thing.

[2147] It can't be a foreign thing that you're not accustomed to.

[2148] So you have to reproduce real danger in sparring so that when they get into the octagon, their instincts are already honed.

[2149] They're already razor sharp.

[2150] I like that.

[2151] But you can't do it too much because you don't want to get brain damage.

[2152] But you look at George now at 30, I think he's 37, 38 years old.

[2153] He's lucid.

[2154] He speaks well.

[2155] He's great.

[2156] He's super healthy.

[2157] He got out early too, though.

[2158] Well, he did the right thing.

[2159] He felt his enthusiasm waning because he was overworked.

[2160] He was tired.

[2161] He fought so many times.

[2162] He just squawked by with a real close decision to Johnny Hendricks.

[2163] Well, he's thinking about fighting again.

[2164] He's not sure if he wants to.

[2165] I think they were talking about trying to set up a fight with him and Khabib Nourgumed off.

[2166] Now, if they could do that, I think George would come back.

[2167] But I don't think George would come back.

[2168] Big money.

[2169] Crazy.

[2170] That might be the biggest fight in the history of the sport.

[2171] The biggest, bro.

[2172] If you're not even a fight fan, everyone knows GSP.

[2173] GSP was the original superstar.

[2174] And he stays in shape.

[2175] GSP never gets fat.

[2176] He's a rich.

[2177] He just posted a picture just a few days ago of him after a three -day fast.

[2178] He's fucking shredded.

[2179] What's he doing?

[2180] So what's he done in the last five, six years?

[2181] works his martial arts he's constantly training he's constantly doing jiu -jitsu always he's like i'm i'm waiting for the right offer look at him that's him just a couple days ago bro he shredded he always trains so when he fought michael bisping and won the middleweight time three days of no water what's the benefits no no no that's not what it is so i know it's he just drinks water yeah just water but they said three days no water that's ridiculous that's an idiot that's some that's some dummy you don't understand what he's 38 I think so I think he's 37 or 38 damn I want to he shredded that he's shredded five six years well you know he's dedicated to health and wellness and he's also dedicated to martial arts like he trains because he's been lurking yes he's been lurking waiting for the right opportunity to present it's what he did with Michael Bisping so why didn't he fight Connor well he's too big George is too big George's big how big is Connor legitimately should be fighting at 155 pounds he won the title at 145.

[2182] There's no fucking way in hell George St. Pierre is ever making 145 pounds.

[2183] Yeah.

[2184] He's much bigger than that.

[2185] He's a tall, right?

[2186] He's wide.

[2187] He's a thick dude.

[2188] I mean, Connor has fought at 170.

[2189] He fought Cowboy at 170, but Cowboy's not really a 170.

[2190] He fought Nate Diaz at 170, and Nate Diaz is not really a 170 either.

[2191] These guys are capable of making 155.

[2192] I mean, obviously, they weighed 170 when they fought, but I think Conner's...

[2193] Right.

[2194] You're like, you ain't messing with it.

[2195] That's a different monster.

[2196] Exactly.

[2197] Exactly, exactly.

[2198] The big 170s.

[2199] The real strong, powerful wrestlers, they're too big.

[2200] And I think George is there.

[2201] George is at that 170.

[2202] I mean, look, maybe if Camaro wins against Gilbert Burns and that would be a crazy fight too.

[2203] But I think the real big money is in Kabib, because it's a super fight.

[2204] Kabib is undefeated.

[2205] I think he's 29 and 0.

[2206] He's dominated everybody.

[2207] He's the most spectacular example of a champion.

[2208] champion we've ever seen.

[2209] I mean, he just dominates.

[2210] That fucking guy just dominates.

[2211] And like, it's workman like.

[2212] He's a monster.

[2213] That's what I appreciate about Khabib is that he is very intentional and deliberate with his precision, like almost surgical in the ring.

[2214] He just walks you down.

[2215] Punch.

[2216] All right, I'm good.

[2217] Well, the Gachie fight really show what he was made of because Gachi has been able to chop everyone's legs apart.

[2218] And he was landing shots on Kabib.

[2219] lost and kabib just kept chasing him down chasing him down which is crazy because i drank the coolate i'm like well damn maybe kabib is in trouble here maybe this is going to be his well he was in danger but he wasn't in trouble well he was in a danger situation yes his leg was in trouble his left leg was getting kicked if you ever been kicked in the calf it's a crazy feeling i have not i don't desire it it's horrible it's horrible man it makes your like it's like a jolt like the the nerves gets it's such a sore area like When you get hit there, you get hit there once or twice, and you lose a lot of your ability to move correctly.

[2220] A lot of times your feet go numb, and that happened to Michael Chandler in a fight once.

[2221] He got kicked low.

[2222] It happened to Henry Sohudo against Mighty Mouse.

[2223] That's right, Michael Chandler, he couldn't even get his footing back.

[2224] I remember that.

[2225] Your nerves to stop working, and your foot drops.

[2226] It's just like you can't get it to work.

[2227] And you try to step on it, it just gives out on you.

[2228] It happened to Henry.

[2229] When Henry Sohudo fought Mighty Mouse in the second fight, in the first round, Mighty Mouse kicked him with a low calf kick and Henry's leg went numb.

[2230] There's nothing you could do about it.

[2231] It's a crazy kick.

[2232] Well, Justin Gage is the best at that.

[2233] He's the best at that.

[2234] And Khabi was chasing him down and Justin kept chopping at that leg.

[2235] And it was in a bad place.

[2236] I mean, he'd hurt him.

[2237] But Khabib is such a fucking monster.

[2238] Turned out after the fight, Khabi was fighting with a broken foot.

[2239] So he was doing all that with a broken foot.

[2240] They x -rayed his foot as a crack bone.

[2241] So that's why you, and I agree with you, but mindset is the most important part of being a champion.

[2242] Because Khabib obviously is like he's got a great body physically.

[2243] He's physically very strong.

[2244] He's very athletic.

[2245] But there's a lot of guys that have that.

[2246] It's the mind.

[2247] The mind's everything.

[2248] Mind's a powerful thing.

[2249] So that's why if you're building, if you're building the perfect fighter, you have to build their mind first.

[2250] That's everything.

[2251] That's what custom model used to hypnotize Mike Tyson.

[2252] He used to tell Mike Tyson that you don't exist.

[2253] The task exists.

[2254] And he used to tell him this when he was 13 years old.

[2255] I like that.

[2256] Teach him how to break people down.

[2257] It's not about you.

[2258] You don't exist.

[2259] That's just nonsense.

[2260] It's going to get in the way.

[2261] The task exists.

[2262] You have to break this man. I like that.

[2263] I'm going to use that.

[2264] It's heavy.

[2265] You don't exist.

[2266] The task exists.

[2267] Jordan Burroughs, we just did three hours.

[2268] This is dope, bro.

[2269] Hey, my pleasure.

[2270] Let me give a shout out to the Buffalo Bills, though.

[2271] Playing well, are you a football fan?

[2272] Nope.

[2273] No, you don't watch.

[2274] I don't watch any sports.

[2275] My wife's from Buffalo.

[2276] So I became, I grew up in South Jersey, so everyone where I'm from are Eagles fans.

[2277] And when I got married, met my wife in Buffalo.

[2278] I'm like, damn, I want to be affiliated with that team.

[2279] Her uncle, Thurman Thomas, played for the Bills.

[2280] Bills had an – Is that a Bills Mafia?

[2281] Bills 'UPSA, so I'm sure you've seen the Bills 'Bills.

[2282] There you go.

[2283] New York State, Buffalo Bills, old school, new school.

[2284] Great, great year in the playoffs.

[2285] Won the AFCs for the first time since, in like, in like 25 years, something crazy.

[2286] Something crazy, and they're playing soon.

[2287] Beautiful.

[2288] Well, listen, good luck in your match.

[2289] Thanks, bro.

[2290] week or next week, whatever it is?

[2291] Yeah, we're going to make it happen.

[2292] We're going to try to figure it out, make it happen.

[2293] It's difficult during these COVID times, right?

[2294] It's wild.

[2295] It's wild.

[2296] It's a wild time.

[2297] It is.

[2298] I'm ready for it to be over.

[2299] Well, thank you, brother.

[2300] It's been an honor.

[2301] I really appreciate.

[2302] I appreciate you.

[2303] Good luck.

[2304] Everything you do everything you do, and seriously, think about what I'm saying.

[2305] Jordan Burroughs, ladies and gentlemen.

[2306] Bye, everybody.