Kristen Bell

[0] Hello and welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I am Dak Shepard, and today my guest is the lovely Kristen Bell.

[2] She was Veronica Mars, Sarah Marshall, Princess Anna, and she's currently Eleanor Schellstrop in the Good Place.

[3] She can sing, she can dance, she can do drama, she can do comedy.

[4] She's frustratingly talented and special, and above all those things, she's my wife.

[5] And even more importantly, she's an incredible mother to our girls.

[6] What is funny about this interview is that I naively assume this would be a slam dunk because we've acted opposite one another and a bunch of things and done dozens of interviews together.

[7] And for the most part, those things have always been pretty effortless.

[8] And in full disclosure, she was my first interview because I was so confident it would go well.

[9] But on this day, this day you're about to hear, we just were not getting along.

[10] We were bickering and impatient with one another, and the first half of the interview was a struggle.

[11] In fact, I considered just leaving this unreleased because, truthfully, I'm embarrassingly controlling throughout most of it.

[12] And she is, by my estimation, very suspicious of my motives throughout.

[13] But ultimately, I have decided to put it out because it's real and true.

[14] And we do find our way back to liking each other by the end.

[15] In short, I want you to think of this episode as the antidote.

[16] to our Samsung commercials.

[17] Please enjoy.

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[21] He's an armchair expert.

[22] He's an option.

[23] Tell us we're ready.

[24] We're ready.

[25] Go ahead and slow.

[26] slide your cans on.

[27] I'm very excited to welcome what will definitely be the guest I'm closest to in the whole world, assuming we don't have our children on.

[28] Kristen Bell, thank you for joining me on Armchair Expert.

[29] Thank you for having me. And you're a little nervous, right?

[30] Yeah, I'm nervous.

[31] Truth but told, we've been arguing for about the last 12 minutes.

[32] That's true.

[33] We're just a little bity little things.

[34] Yeah, we're both on edge.

[35] and that's not how I like to go into a public discussion yeah or public appearance with you but you were annoying me so I bit back and that's life and how what was I doing that was so annoying mostly just asking you to do this right is that the main complaint?

[36] Well I did look I did have to go to Michaels today and then I'm missing garland and I really want that garland for any folks that don't go to Michaels that's a yarn store right it's like a crafts and here's a perfect example of why you're being annoying Yes, it is a craft store.

[37] It's not a yarn store.

[38] But it also has great garland.

[39] And if you need yarn, where's the best place to go?

[40] Any of the McDonald's?

[41] Nitting stores in at Water Village.

[42] Okay.

[43] Well, I associate maybe wrongly Michaels with crafts and yarn and knitting needles.

[44] Yeah.

[45] Those kind of things, right?

[46] So you would prefer to be at Michaels.

[47] You've made that abundantly clear.

[48] But I also think because you have this new, you have this podcast now and you're like excited to strip people down and I'm just scared of what you're going to ask me because you know I don't know a lot of stuff and I also don't have a good memory so you're going to be like but I have I have all your memories now locked in here right so do this podcast with yourself about me I considered it I really would prefer I think everyone prefer if I did because I do a great impersonation of you yeah and maybe it'd be better if I just recounted all your stories as you could no you're not I love you but just you were being annoying because do you want to hear my impersonation of you sure well there's another example of why but like I was trying to get work done for a job that I have right which you have a lot of them and I'm very appreciative and you were talking over it and making jokes and saying do you guys see all the bay laurel trees we got outside and I was like does he not realize I'm trying to get this done as quickly as possible so I can do this podcast then you refuse to get a door on your bathroom and I give you a perfectly accurate observation that we could put a curtain and you say it's scientifically impossible It's not because you just hang a curtain there.

[49] So just so everyone knows, we're in a, what would be described, I guess, as an attic that's been converted into a little room above a garage of a house that we are trying to move into.

[50] And it's, yeah, it's shaped oddly.

[51] Well, here's the thing.

[52] You and I have different, I wish you could see this room because you and I have different ideas about nesting and how to welcome someone in here.

[53] For me, I would probably get the wood chips off the ground.

[54] I would vacuum the carpet.

[55] I would possibly take all these like loose cords, this like open live electrical system.

[56] Yeah.

[57] So guys, there was a wall in here and it really cut into the open space.

[58] So I tore the wall out with my own two bare hands, which an actress of your caliber should be grateful that she married a husband who knows how to tear a wall up.

[59] But you're not hearing any of that.

[60] You're just hearing all the complaints about the electrical stuff.

[61] No, it's not a complaint.

[62] I'm just saying if you're going to be inviting people here to your podcast, you have to have a door on the bathroom.

[63] By the way, I think if we went downtown to a new restaurant and it looked like this, we go, so cool.

[64] They left all the electrical stuff exposed.

[65] You love to make observations about like current hip things.

[66] Like you hate the word artisan and all this stuff.

[67] We don't know that.

[68] All I'm asking you is in feet, how many feet away is that toilet bowl from my face right now?

[69] It is.

[70] No, no, no. What you have to do is picture me lane end to end because I'm a little over six feet.

[71] So I think it's about 15 feet away from you.

[72] I think that's less than two bodies of you.

[73] I think it's probably one and a half.

[74] But regardless, let's say it's 12 feet.

[75] You're close to the commode.

[76] That's inargeable.

[77] Right.

[78] And if you have a guest up here, let's say Robert De Niro does your podcast.

[79] Yeah, he likely will, yeah.

[80] Right.

[81] So he's not going to want to go to a toilet that, first of all, I can see into right now.

[82] Mm -hmm.

[83] You have to put a curtain on that.

[84] Okay.

[85] There's certain things you have to do to have human beings want to spend in time with you.

[86] First of all, I hear you and I respect your opinion about this.

[87] Secondly, I've spent dozens of hours in here writing staring at that exact doorway, which is at a 70 -degree angle, the ceiling.

[88] It is technically impossible to get a barrier between the toilet and the guests.

[89] So this is just something I've come to accept.

[90] And I think the faster the guests come to accept that, the better everything.

[91] You can't have a toilet in the middle of the room when you're having people over, honey.

[92] You can't do that.

[93] But how about this?

[94] I need to go to Michaels anyway.

[95] Watch this.

[96] Tomorrow I'm going to go to Michaels, and I'm going to get you a beautiful piece of fabric that looks like it's ripped straight off of you, Hefner's old diaper bin.

[97] And I'm going to hang it up with two hooks, and it's going to work perfectly.

[98] Then at least I'm going to feel comfortable that if my girlfriends want to come here and do your podcast, that...

[99] Which, by the way, is I can't wait for.

[100] Oh, your girlfriends are come over.

[101] This is why you're annoying.

[102] You started biting.

[103] No, I'm going to give you a standing ovation if you solve this problem, the barrier between the commode and the guests.

[104] I can't wait.

[105] Okay, and I'll do it.

[106] Yeah.

[107] I will give you your propers.

[108] I'm going to fix it.

[109] All right, knowing that you were going to come on, I thought of a story that probably we haven't told in public that I think is pretty funny.

[110] I love you.

[111] And we, I love you so much, too.

[112] I love you even when you're annoying.

[113] Mm -hmm.

[114] Well, that's the key.

[115] If you can get through the annoying times, you got a shot.

[116] Yeah.

[117] So when we first met, our very first time.

[118] hanging out by choice.

[119] We met at a dinner party.

[120] That was not our choice.

[121] And then we ran into each other at the Red Wings game, also not planned.

[122] But then we hung out intentionally, right?

[123] We went to, what was your favorite restaurant you always went to?

[124] Firefly.

[125] Firefly.

[126] I met you and your friends there.

[127] And then we ended up back at your house and you had a hot tub.

[128] Yeah.

[129] And we went in the hot tub together.

[130] Yeah.

[131] With my room, all my roommates at the time.

[132] Initially, yeah.

[133] But then they all peeled off.

[134] They peeled off.

[135] But they were there because they knew I was like dating.

[136] and that it made me nervous and they wanted to make sure you weren't.

[137] They knew I was like a top predator.

[138] Yeah.

[139] Yeah, like Apex Predator.

[140] Well, they saw you and like most people immediately didn't trust you.

[141] Right, right.

[142] So Ryan.

[143] Well, it was like going in a hot tub with a jungle cat, like a Jaguar or a leopard.

[144] Yeah, sure, sure, sure.

[145] Anyways, so it ended up being just you and I in the hot tub.

[146] After Ryan whispered to me a couple times, are you okay?

[147] Are you sure you feel safe about this?

[148] So Ryan left and we were by ourselves.

[149] And then you said what?

[150] We were talking, we were in the middle of talking, and then you said what?

[151] Here we go.

[152] From my perspective, which I understand you take issue with, you, like most guys, unintentionally and perhaps even subconsciously, your eyes darted down to my sternum area and perhaps the left and right side of my sternum, which I refer to as my breasts.

[153] Yeah.

[154] And I said to diffuse the air because I noticed you popped down once or twice, I said, what are you looking at my fake tits?

[155] Right.

[156] So Kristen said, what are you looking at my fake tits?

[157] Now, in my defense, and I maintain this position, I'll admit anything.

[158] You know me. I've admitted the most terrible things possibly.

[159] That's true.

[160] You're very honest.

[161] Yeah.

[162] Shitting the bed in an orgy.

[163] I'll say that at a dinner party.

[164] So what I'm saying is, it's weird to me that I would not admit looking at your boobs because I'll admit to staring at your ass a ton that night.

[165] But I sincerely, my gaze definitely was probably on your boobs but it was not I wasn't looking at your boobs right but can I just tell you something you're you're an ape okay you're a man you do something subconsciously even you know people I work with don't even realize it look I stare at everyone's hairlines and I don't realize it until someone's pointing it out and I don't think that I'm staring at your hairline yeah but well because I want to know what's going on yeah but I I felt I noticed you were looking down and I do believe 100 % sincerely that you don't think you were doing it.

[166] Yeah.

[167] But as any woman can understand, sometimes their eyes dart and they don't even know they're doing it.

[168] Right.

[169] So that's neither here nor there.

[170] So you did though, we agree on this.

[171] You said, what are you looking at my fake tits?

[172] Yeah.

[173] Which I thought was a very funny joke because I have very small boobs.

[174] But they're very, very, very, they were very, very perky.

[175] You think you were in your 20s at that time.

[176] You were 27 and I was 32.

[177] And so they were very perky.

[178] And then later, so that was clue number one for me. You said, what are you looking at my fake tits?

[179] Then clue number two was, we're now dating for a couple months.

[180] We go do one in Rome.

[181] And you, I know you're in a show called Veronica Mars.

[182] And I think, okay, I've got to watch this show as a good boyfriend.

[183] I end up watching it.

[184] I end up loving it and becoming a marshmallow proper.

[185] But between seasons one and two, you came into the room.

[186] And you said, oh.

[187] Oh, look at this.

[188] This is when I got my boobs.

[189] Yes.

[190] Yes.

[191] Because at the time in 2004 or five, push -up bras were like the hot ticket item, like real proper push -up bras from Victoria's Secret.

[192] Well -engineered.

[193] Yeah.

[194] So I had discovered that.

[195] And in addition, my hormones were sort of rearranging themselves in my 20s.

[196] And I lost a lot of my, like, some sort of chubby cheeks as a kid.

[197] and my body started to fill out more like a woman.

[198] So I got hips and I got boobs and I was 24, 25 years old.

[199] So again, because my breasts are so small, I thought it was a very funny joke to say, oh, that's when I got my boobs because look how late I went through puberty.

[200] I actually have a boob that someone will recognize as more than a raisin on camera.

[201] And that's why I, that was good.

[202] You said that, yeah.

[203] So from my point of view, you said, look at my fake tits.

[204] And then you said, this is when I got my.

[205] boobs and then there's another one but it would be breaking the anonymity of a family member but another really really spot -on piece of a piece of proof that you had fake boobs and so I was under the impression that you had fake boobs yeah and which I thought which I still to this day find so but we later cleared that up so yes honey you're always right about everything well I'm only going to bring up stories where the punchline is as I was right yeah okay so So, you know, months are going on.

[206] We're dating.

[207] Things are great.

[208] And you are occasionally making jokes about people with fake boobs or you're making observations.

[209] I don't want to say you're body shaming anyone, but between you and I. And not like jokes, but like we were, I remember what you're talking about.

[210] We were, yeah, like a Kate, look, we live in Los Angeles.

[211] And sometimes when someone walks in with an extreme amount of plastic surgery and it wasn't body shaming, but it was like, whoa.

[212] Where someone's.

[213] Look at those boltons.

[214] Exactly.

[215] They look really, really, really tight.

[216] or it's like, I carumba, where like, you know, it's insane.

[217] And I remember what the breaking point was.

[218] Well, the first few times this happened over the course of months, I didn't say a thing.

[219] I just was like, oh, that's weird.

[220] She has fake boobs, but she's kind of making fun of fake boobs or observing fake boobs or whatever.

[221] And then finally, unlike the fourth time it happened, I finally broke and said, what do you want me to do right now?

[222] I feel like this is a test.

[223] Like, should I join in and comment on these boobs?

[224] and you were like, what are you talking about?

[225] And I will say to set the scene, at the time, we were in Hawaii.

[226] I have very, very few memories, but I remember this clearly.

[227] We were in Hawaii.

[228] I was wearing an orange Rachel Pally dress, which if anyone knows Rachel Pally, it's like this thin T -shirt material.

[229] You do not need to wear a bra with it if you have very small.

[230] Or I wasn't wearing a bra with it.

[231] It was like a halter.

[232] And we were in Hawaii, and it was one of those like brawless days where you're wearing a sort of like bikini top.

[233] And I said something about, oh, yeah.

[234] like, ooh, wow, we, or something about a girl that had, you know, gigantic fake boobs.

[235] And you said, is this a trap?

[236] Yes.

[237] What am I supposed to say?

[238] And I said, what do you mean?

[239] What are you supposed to say?

[240] I'm just, I said, well, you have fake boobs.

[241] You had breast augmentation.

[242] And now you're, you're making fun of this.

[243] And I don't know whether I'm supposed to join you or stay quiet.

[244] And I just can't do it anymore.

[245] And I, you were shocked.

[246] Well, first of all, because I, again, to set the scene, I wasn't wearing a bra at the time.

[247] I have no boobs and they were just, it's just like little skin tags.

[248] And I thought, you think I did that, you think I did this to myself and this is what I got?

[249] Yes.

[250] And then later.

[251] You think I purchased these?

[252] Well, I was ripped off.

[253] No. And then I explained to you, I have friends.

[254] I have female friends that have had breast enhancement that have gone from an A to a B. And then then you said, well, I would have some scars or something.

[255] And then I said, well, just to further my point, I wasn't even a. B. It was an A. Skin tags.

[256] No, I think you are a B. I'm going to give you a B. Well, I know you think that, but I have the Bersiers and I purchase them.

[257] So as much as I want to say, anyway, I'm a nice.

[258] They were beautiful boobs.

[259] They were beautiful boobs and they were inordinately perky.

[260] And it made sense to me. One more point.

[261] There's nothing to make them sag.

[262] They're not there.

[263] I've seen small saggy boobs.

[264] They exist.

[265] In fact, they're not that rare.

[266] It happens.

[267] Well, okay.

[268] I mean, I don't.

[269] In grandmas, maybe.

[270] Yours were sitting way up high, as Bob Seeger would say.

[271] Yeah, because there's nothing to pull them down.

[272] Okay.

[273] Well, anyways, what is really funny about the whole thing is that for months, I thought you had fake boobs.

[274] And I was very disinterested in them, if you recall.

[275] Yeah.

[276] And then when I found out those things were real and they were that perky, I was so excited, wasn't I?

[277] I was all over there.

[278] There was a huge shift.

[279] And you said, I said, well, wouldn't I have scars?

[280] Wouldn't you see scars?

[281] because this is an important part of the story where you are right.

[282] So I'd like to highlight that to make you feel good.

[283] You said, you don't need scars anymore.

[284] They can go through your belly button.

[285] Your armpit or your belly button.

[286] No way.

[287] But then I remembered.

[288] Let's name drop.

[289] Minka Kelly used to be like a nurse's assistant.

[290] And I said, a surgical assistant.

[291] I said, let me. And I know she's done boob jobs.

[292] And I said, let me ask Minka.

[293] And I said, can you go through your belly button?

[294] And she said, yeah, absolutely.

[295] So you this whole time assumed that I had a hanger.

[296] Like a really first class.

[297] Well, I thought you had a really high -end boob job.

[298] Because there was no evidence of it.

[299] Well, that's so flattering.

[300] And now, after I've had two children for you, I think you know that who was right and who was wrong.

[301] Well, yeah.

[302] Now you know.

[303] I got to say, they're still in really fine shape.

[304] That's another thing that you could go much more south.

[305] So I think things are doing great.

[306] Thank you, honey.

[307] Now, you and I differ in a bazillion ways.

[308] All of them are most.

[309] Yeah, we're almost polar opposite.

[310] Again, I love you.

[311] I love you too.

[312] Okay, so one of the ways we differ is that I was not a kid who wanted to be an actor.

[313] I didn't know an actor.

[314] We both are from Detroit.

[315] There weren't many working actors in the whole state.

[316] So it seemed preposterous to me. Nor did I do theater or any of that stuff.

[317] No, but you wanted to entertain.

[318] You were always the class clown.

[319] You were, you wanted to entertain.

[320] You were pulling focus.

[321] a lot in your life let's put it that way so I was deflecting from the fact that I was dyslexic and going to special ed yes okay well let's not get too vulnerable yeah okay so um you did though you were what eight years old when you decided you wanted to act no well yes and no um I was always a mimic so I would I almost had a little very little tick where if I heard you still have it okay when we watch movies Kristen whispers almost every line to herself as we watch the movie.

[322] It's not every line, but it is, I can't stop it because if I hear it, I have to figure out how it can come out of my mouth.

[323] Right.

[324] You got to see if you can do it.

[325] I got to see if I can do it.

[326] So, but to watch shows with accents, that's where it kills me. To watch Game of Thrones.

[327] Yeah, down and abbey.

[328] Oh, man. Yeah, you were pretty much titles to titles doing everyone's lines.

[329] Don't sit next to me while we're watching something.

[330] Any foreign nominated best picture you're going to be all over it.

[331] Yeah, it's trouble.

[332] It's trouble.

[333] But I mimicked a lot of things as a kid And I was always really into music I heard music everywhere And I heard things musically So I started studying voice when I was younger It wasn't eight years old I think But my mom knew that I wasn't Like big enough to play sports Or I wasn't really succeeding in that arena Although you did play baseball And you were right about half that sentence I did play baseball Oh well you know I guess when I was young Anyway The point is I I joined a local theater company, and the sweet part of the story, this sort of like hallmark lifetime moment, is that my mom drove me to stage crafters, which is a local theater in Royal Oak, Michigan.

[334] Sounds like they sell yarn.

[335] Stage crafter.

[336] So she said, do you want to audition for this play?

[337] And I said yes.

[338] And I memorized a Shell Silverstein poem to say on stage.

[339] And I was probably 12.

[340] Which one?

[341] 13.

[342] From where the sidewalk ends or light in the attic?

[343] if I remember.

[344] Oh, okay.

[345] And when we got there, I saw that everyone was sitting in the audience while people went up and performed.

[346] My desire to mimic or it wasn't really even a desire to perform, my hearing things musically was always to myself.

[347] It was very, very intimate.

[348] I didn't really want, I liked to be funny and make people giggle, but I wasn't into performance yet.

[349] And the fact that there were kids in the audience and adults watching you perform, it made me feel very, very uncomfortable.

[350] And I started crying.

[351] You left the theater and I remember in the...

[352] Did your mom give you a tough love talk?

[353] No, which is weird because I have so few memories.

[354] My memory is so awful.

[355] But I remember this very clearly.

[356] We were in the parking lot of stagecrafters and she said, listen, you memorized this.

[357] I think that you would enjoy this being a part of this theater company if you have a bad experience today and you don't enjoy it.

[358] We never have to come here again.

[359] We won't even drive past this street again.

[360] That's good.

[361] Yeah.

[362] So she's basically said we can strike it from the record.

[363] If it's embarrassing or humiliating, we never talk about it again.

[364] And I...

[365] That's a good pep talk.

[366] It's a great pep talk.

[367] It was a wonderful thing.

[368] And I did it.

[369] We need to memorize that for when the inevitable happens in our children want to audition for things.

[370] And I got a, I was cast as a, we did Raggedy Ann and Andy.

[371] I was cast as a banana in the first act, in a tree, in the second act.

[372] I didn't have any lines, but I really liked that sense of community.

[373] You were like Eddie Murphy.

[374] You played all kinds of characters.

[375] Banana, tree.

[376] Any inanimate object.

[377] I loved the sense of community and I loved that people in the theater were allowed to be dorky and there wasn't like this popularity thing.

[378] There wasn't this a standard.

[379] It was like you were weird and wonderful and I just, I liked making the sets.

[380] It was the island of misfit toys.

[381] Yeah.

[382] And I was still studying music and then I sort of discovered musical theater.

[383] But at the same time, my mom was recognizing that I was happy there.

[384] And so she submitted me to like a local commercial.

[385] commercial agent and well yes because that's the part I'm now reflecting on is your mother sent us some VHS tapes or no rather she had transferred some VHS tapes to DVD and on those you're a very little kid doing like monologues in front of the camera oh yeah but but but you need that was that seems intentionally with the professional uh end in sight yes and I was probably between like 11 and 14 when I did that and I but prior to that prior to the invention of the video camera I would watch Disney movies and play them in the background so I could get some of the orchestration and on my boom box press record and like do Ariel and do all of that.

[386] And I don't know what I was keeping those for.

[387] And even when I was singing My Fair Lady in front of the fireplace and I'd set up the video camera when I was 12 years old, the idea that someone would ever watch that was humiliating.

[388] I would be way too embarrassed.

[389] So again, like this, I still have this like duplicitous nature about.

[390] acting where I really, really want to do it, but I don't want anyone to look at me doing it.

[391] I think I've heard a lot of actors say that.

[392] Yeah.

[393] But I'm interested specifically in the professional aspect.

[394] So you were putting yourself on tape.

[395] You were auditioning.

[396] You were in a Kmart circular holding a bicycle.

[397] I've seen that picture.

[398] So when you're that age, you were very much thinking, I'm going to do this for a living, hopefully, when I grew up.

[399] No, no, not at all.

[400] You're just kind of going.

[401] through the steps not even realizing what it was adding up to.

[402] Yeah, it was making money.

[403] We didn't have a ton of money.

[404] And I was, that was a college fund for me. I had not even thought about adult life or what I would do.

[405] I knew what I enjoyed right now.

[406] And I suppose if someone sat me down, which is actually what happened when I was 17 in my counselor's office in my high school.

[407] And they said, what do you want to do with your life?

[408] I said, I have no idea.

[409] They said, start with what you love.

[410] I said, I love theater.

[411] They said, you can study that.

[412] I said, great, have a, have a wonderful day.

[413] That's what I'm doing.

[414] It was never an epiphany of I'm going to do this.

[415] It was, um, those Kmart circulars.

[416] I mean, you got 400 bucks every time you did it.

[417] And we needed that, we needed that money.

[418] So, you know, you, you're an enigma to me in a lot of ways.

[419] And, um, these are all the reasons I married you.

[420] You have by my estimation a pretty pure draw to this.

[421] Whereas, and maybe it's because I'm a comedian or whatnot.

[422] I was a middle child.

[423] I didn't get enough attention.

[424] I very much wanted attention.

[425] I loved being funny as, again, a defense mechanism for feeling stupid for going to special ed.

[426] All these things.

[427] Can you think of a motivation you had to do this that you feel like was maybe treating some kind of wound or helping you heal?

[428] Or it's just it was fun and you did it like a sport.

[429] Because it seems to me that it was fun and you did it like a sport, which is interesting.

[430] A lot of it is that.

[431] A lot of it is I, you know, we've had this conversation before about what is being good, what is altruism, you know, is it selfish or selfless?

[432] Because when I'm helping people, I get a real boost.

[433] I get an ego boost.

[434] I like that feeling.

[435] So in some ways you could argue it's very selfish to.

[436] Oh, I'm going to get to that.

[437] Okay, great.

[438] But when you are on stage and people are enjoying something.

[439] but you don't think it didn't so um it made it just made me happy Kristen had many stepdads as I had many stepdad's yeah yeah it was you and your mom versus the world most of the time yeah I mean my dad was there but yes that 50 % of my life was me and my mom yeah and you had like a latch key right oh yeah uh -huh your mom worked hard a ton hours as a nurse so none of that it's not like you went there and you felt like oh this is um I'm getting a bunch of the attention that I would normally be getting if I lived in a nuclear family with two doting parents and all that.

[440] Yeah, maybe.

[441] Yeah.

[442] Now that you say that maybe.

[443] Because, although your mom does dot on you quite a bit.

[444] Uh -huh.

[445] Yeah.

[446] Getting attention from my mom was never my problem.

[447] I think I felt big.

[448] Uh -huh.

[449] Oh, and you're a, you're a very tiny of people.

[450] Yeah.

[451] You're almost invisible.

[452] Well, I also have the child's voice and I look young.

[453] And every time I'd go to the grocery store, like someone calls me sweetheart.

[454] That, that shit bugs me like to no end that is interesting because on a stage size is irrelevant you can be as powerful as that's what it is it made me feel the guy with acromegaly yes you think i probably felt powerful i felt like i was good at something because i i i was i have you know not had a difficult life like i i was accepted i had friends i wasn't yeah you were popular Yeah, but I never felt really like good at something or special at something.

[455] And I think when I discovered music, particularly because music is so peaceful to my brain, when I was singing or when I was involved in a musical theater production, I was not turbulent at all.

[456] And I wasn't thinking about popularity or, you know, divorces or anything like that.

[457] It was just a, it was an escape and it was also something I felt very good at.

[458] Yeah, confident.

[459] Yeah.

[460] And one of the things that was on this tape because you had memorized different things is you had remembered line for line a very famous Lee Press on nail commercial, which I don't know if it aired all over the country.

[461] It certainly aired about 300 times a day in the Detroit metro area.

[462] And could you just refresh my memory of how that goes?

[463] Yeah, sure.

[464] It goes like this.

[465] These are the amazing Lee press on nails.

[466] They press on in seconds.

[467] No glue, no mess.

[468] Simply press on Lee super sick tabs.

[469] Then press on Lee press on nails.

[470] That's all.

[471] Easy on.

[472] Easy on.

[473] Easy on.

[474] use them again and again.

[475] They just won't break her chip, polish, and they're nearly impossible to chip.

[476] Lee press on nails in a variety of colors for a quick, easy split.

[477] Press on.

[478] What's so amazing about your memory that you've already referenced.

[479] Natural and glamour lengths.

[480] That's what they also said in it.

[481] You've referenced several times already that you have a bad memory and I can attest to that.

[482] There's like vacations you don't remember we've taken.

[483] But your ability to remember that type of thing because you haven't done your Lee press on nail commercial for me in about a year.

[484] Yeah, it was right there for you.

[485] And then you are the exact same way with the lyrics, right, lines from movies.

[486] Because I hear things musically.

[487] I think a neurologist would have a real field day studying your brain.

[488] When I'm watching something, there's something about me that is more present, I guess.

[489] I'm an observer, which is strange because I, it seems like I like to be in the center and making things up.

[490] But really, I think that my true personality is an observer.

[491] and I'm just sort of regurgitating a bunch of weird things I've experienced when I'm acting.

[492] I think that's false modesty.

[493] I think you're much better than all that.

[494] So I think another unique thing about you, I'm basically just going to go through all the things I find very unique and attractive about you.

[495] Okay.

[496] You have a kind of unique mix of good girl, bad girl.

[497] In that, I mean, you love rules.

[498] You followed them to the T, the letter of the law.

[499] And, um, yet you also, for a reason, yeah.

[500] Yeah.

[501] And yet you also had sex with people.

[502] You weren't hung up about that.

[503] Right.

[504] Right.

[505] You had some promiscuous sex.

[506] Yeah, sure.

[507] Like one night's dance?

[508] Yeah.

[509] Of course.

[510] I like that.

[511] They're fun.

[512] Uh -huh.

[513] And you also like would try drugs.

[514] Yeah.

[515] Minimally.

[516] I, I've tried.

[517] I smoked a lot of pot in college.

[518] Right.

[519] I, uh.

[520] You also tried ecstasy, but it didn't work.

[521] Is that what happened?

[522] It's my memory because, look, I tried mushrooms and they were not real mushrooms.

[523] So, yes, my intention was to try mushrooms with a bunch of friends that have done them before.

[524] Yeah.

[525] And then I guess they didn't work.

[526] And I only knew that because the girls I were with were like, these don't work.

[527] These are just like yard.

[528] And you don't have an addictive bone in your body.

[529] When we met you were a smoker and then all of a sudden a month went by and I reminded you, you had not smoked in a month.

[530] And you just quit, but didn't even realize you quit.

[531] Well, because sometimes I would, when I was in my 20s, I would smoke cigarettes when I was really stressed because it made me feel like that was something to take the stress away.

[532] I think it was just like the movie cliche version of what I should do.

[533] Right.

[534] Like post -sex.

[535] Yeah.

[536] And then also, you're right.

[537] When I started hanging out with you, I wasn't stressed anymore.

[538] And then you were like, don't you smoke?

[539] And I just didn't remember that.

[540] Yeah, I had to remind you that you were a smoker.

[541] But I wasn't really.

[542] And it really, it would like on and all.

[543] Like I would buy a pack of cigarettes throughout my 20.

[544] every couple months, I guess.

[545] Yeah.

[546] Yeah, and one time in college, someone got ecstasy and I tried it, and I can't be sure it wasn't a Tick -Tac.

[547] Right.

[548] But we did go to a Dave Matthews band concert, and that's where the confusing memories start to layer.

[549] Because you don't know if you were just high on the performance.

[550] Totally.

[551] Yeah, yeah.

[552] Totally.

[553] You love Dave Matthews.

[554] Yeah, crash into you, babe.

[555] And Martin Sexton, you really, really love during that period.

[556] Yeah.

[557] But so that's kind of unique.

[558] I think people are either goody -y -goody.

[559] and they don't really do anything, or they're like me and their scumbags.

[560] So you're kind of in the middle.

[561] You're open to trying things, yet you generally follow the rules.

[562] Well, I grew up.

[563] How do you make those decisions?

[564] Like, why is it that sometimes you would go, fuck it, I'm going to do ecstasy.

[565] I'm going to go to Dave Matthews and I'm going to pound some molly and get the party started.

[566] To me, it's using my own barometer of what is good and bad for me. It's also promoting happiness, reducing suffering.

[567] If I'm with my friends and someone has weed or mushrooms or something, and I'm in my 20s, I'm not raising kids.

[568] Like, great.

[569] But am I going to go rob a liquor store or am I going to like, you know, I can't, I literally can't even think of anything else bad, but like do other bad things.

[570] My thing is, am I causing someone else suffering?

[571] If I'm not, if I want to have sex with someone and I'm in college and I'm consenting and he's consenting and we don't want to.

[572] have a relationship and it turns out to be one time no one suffers there right you know so and we're both interested for a second and then it goes like that's no one's suffering to me it's happiness versus suffering always right you don't but do you think there was any point where so you went to this this catholic school and um your mom's conservative yeah and then you went away to NYU yeah and do you feel at all like when you were at NYU you were like I'm gonna Shedding my skin.

[573] No, it wasn't a rebellion so much as a blossoming because when I was in school, the sort of baseline of what you're taught is there is good and there is evil.

[574] And I just don't believe that anymore.

[575] And when I went to New York, you know, you're taught all these things in a small town at a parochial school about good and evil and people that do drugs are bad and this is bad and that is bad and this is what's good.

[576] Gay people.

[577] Yeah, exactly.

[578] They were high on the list back then.

[579] Big time.

[580] And then I went to New York and all I met were these like a drug -taking.

[581] lovely gay musical theater boys and I was like oh well here's my answer it comes from life experience it doesn't come from whatever a religion teacher told me was good or bad it comes from me seeing these like lovely individuals that sometimes dress up like women or love Broadway shows or whatever the you know my all my gay friends were into I was like oh this is happiness and when there's happiness I don't run from it so I was like great these people are lovely it's all they smoke weed I'm going to try a little Yeah, well, which was weird because they didn't even smoke weed, but other friends I had in college who were super happy and balanced and lovely.

[582] They weren't like ending up in the gutter.

[583] Right.

[584] And they were like, we just have weed and this might be fun and we're in college.

[585] And I was like, great.

[586] Well, and that, yeah, so maybe that's a little bit of the key now that I think about it is the difference between you and I experimenting with drugs, which is I would.

[587] You went straight to the gutter.

[588] Well, I would imagine that you knew people who did stuff and their whole thing was appealing to you.

[589] and you thought, oh, I'll try that because I like that person.

[590] I trust that person.

[591] Whereas I was like, you know, reading Bukowski or whatever I was reading going or, you know, on the road and they're talking about drugs and I'm thinking, oh my God, I want to experience that.

[592] I didn't have like, I didn't like you, you were cliche in the fact that you like every other boy read on the road and decided to live in your car for a year.

[593] Like that was like super important.

[594] Well, I don't think many boys went and lived in their cars, but I did and I feel very proud of that.

[595] Yeah, and I would not feel proud of that because I don't want to, I'm not going to drop out of society.

[596] I don't want to, no, I don't, and not because of a piece of literature.

[597] Like, I'm writing my, the book of my life and I want to do it by discovery.

[598] Well, you were mimicking Disney characters and I was mimicking some authors I thought were really cool.

[599] Yeah.

[600] But then, you know, you come to find out it's probably better on the page than it is waking up at, you know, five in the afternoon.

[601] Recounting.

[602] cop and telling them to leave the Walmart parking lot you've been parked you for today's.

[603] I never came to in a Walmart parking lot, unfortunately.

[604] That's one story that's still out there for me. He never came to.

[605] I'm going to put, he never came to in a Walmart parking lot.

[606] So another thing about you that I find very admirable is that you are able to root on your friends who happen to also be competitors.

[607] yours in in the most you know basic uh dynamic that we are actors and we audition for parts and we have a lot of friends who are also actors and they audition for sometimes those same parts and you are um it's amazing you've i've witnessed you um lose roles to friends or um you know and you're able to just be very happy for them and cheer them on and i think that's incredible it's happiness versus suffering so I would be sad if I lose a role to everybody else Emily if I lose a role to Emily Blunt yeah which has happened numerous times before and by the way I'm not saying it like it was between me and Emily yeah you guys both were after the same thing yeah along with a hundred other girls in Hollywood and they chose Emily rightfully so because she's a spectacular actress to me it's happiest happiness versus suffering I might feel sad because I didn't book it but Emily feels happiness and she's going to do a great job and that movie's going to be great better because she's in it because she's spectacular it's just happiness versus suffering to me because I kind of weirdly live by what I've discovered to be the Buddhist way of life which is that you know when somebody's about to get hit by a bus you don't push them out of the way because you're helping someone else you push them out of the way because that person is you We're all sort of intertwined and if someone else gets the role and I love that person, then great.

[608] But to me that feels a little bit like acting a certain way and then trying to explain it later or after the fact.

[609] So then you attach some principles to it like, oh, I believe in this or I believe in that.

[610] Yeah, because I'm saying I didn't know that was the Buddhist way.

[611] And then when I heard it, I was like, oh, that's kind of what I feel.

[612] Right.

[613] But I would argue that you're largely not in control of your emotions and that you just don't have.

[614] have those emotions.

[615] And the reason I think you don't have those emotions is you have incredibly high self -esteem.

[616] I think that's really the base for why you're able to, it doesn't, when someone, when Emily Blunt gets that role, you go, oh, she's great and she'll be great in it, and that's great.

[617] You don't go, it doesn't make you feel less than.

[618] You don't go, oh, I'm a piece of shit because she's great.

[619] Right.

[620] Which is wonderful and it's so healthy.

[621] She doesn't have, that effect over me. She doesn't have anything to do with me. Right.

[622] If I'm a piece of shit, I'm a piece of shit, I'm a piece of shit.

[623] I agree.

[624] Nothing to do with Emily Blunt.

[625] I've just been clear on that my whole life.

[626] Right.

[627] But in you, I know from all the stories from your childhood, you seem to have had pretty high self -esteem most of your life.

[628] You didn't find yourself in situations where you're being taken advantage of and you were not a victim very often.

[629] And And I believe personally that, you know, we think that we get self -esteem by accomplishing things.

[630] Like, oh, I'll graduate from UCLA.

[631] That'll make me feel good about myself.

[632] Or I'll be on TV.

[633] That'll make me feel good about myself.

[634] Or I'll date this person.

[635] And then that'll make me feel good about myself.

[636] But in my experience, none of those things ever made me feel good about myself.

[637] Things that made me feel good are esteemable acts.

[638] self -esteem is doing esteemable acts and you actually, by your own judge, you feel good about who you are.

[639] And so I think that you've, you know, I've only over the last 13 years been given an opportunity to like help a lot of dudes get sober.

[640] That gives me self -esteem.

[641] Exercise gives me self -esteem.

[642] So you have a ton of self -esteem, which is very attractive.

[643] And I think it's from doing esteemable acts.

[644] So what are the things you do that give you that self -esteem?

[645] I seek a lot of things out.

[646] Sometimes to my detriment, I mean, everyone's on a learning curve.

[647] Sometimes I sign up for more than I can swallow.

[648] I work for a lot of different charities.

[649] And you always have, right?

[650] I always have.

[651] And that's because I think everyone is doing the best they can with what they've got.

[652] And so when different people reach out to me like Gift of Life, which is a bone marrow registry, of course I'll do your PSAs.

[653] That's wonderful.

[654] I know a friend of a friend who needed that service and like being an ambassador for baby to baby or for an ambassador for no kid hungry.

[655] Those are all worthwhile things I think that.

[656] You went to Brazil as a teenager and help deliver babies.

[657] Uh -huh.

[658] I did.

[659] I'm helping other people because I see I'm an empath and I see myself and everyone else and I can sometimes feel what they're feeling and I would want someone to help me. It's as simple as that.

[660] I think this life world isn't fair.

[661] It's counterintuitive to think that you will end up getting everything you want in life by being very selfless and being very observice to other people.

[662] That's not.

[663] That's the most intuitive thing I could possibly.

[664] Yeah, not to me. My thing is like, oh, you have to bend everyone's will around you to your will to get what you want.

[665] That's so backwards.

[666] It's the only way you get it.

[667] Karma is not bullshit.

[668] Like, you can call it juju or whatever you want, but like the energy of the world, that's real life, you know.

[669] And I think if you walk into situations with an open heart and someone says like, oh, I'm stressed and you ask them questions about it or, oh, I have to move and you say, I'm not doing anything on Saturday.

[670] Do you need any help?

[671] You're not saying it because you're trying to like get points in the afterlife or make your life better.

[672] You're doing it because you can also look at it like, oh, I can spend the day with this person and make their life.

[673] a little bit easier and out of that I get self -esteem which makes me feel great like you know like working for path which you know well you also rescue dogs yeah rescue everything because i like nurturing things and i i don't think that the um that there is a recipe for self -esteem i think it varies for everyone right so you have your laundry list of things that you value and then you go out of your way and spend time to to do that um i have a different list everyone's got a different list and i think it's it's important to recognize the things you think are important and that are admirable and then put some effort into doing those things because it leads to confidence.

[674] It leads to loving yourself.

[675] And you can't really.

[676] And it also breeds humility and sort of a humble perspective in that, look, I don't deserve this.

[677] I don't deserve to be one of the only people who doesn't have to worry about their bills and gets to feel beautiful when she gets her makeup done.

[678] Like, I don't deserve that, but I have been put in a position where I was given opportunities and I was born kind of cute and I can read a room really well and act appropriately in social situations and those things have led me to get great results out of my life and I think that that should be spread around.

[679] I mean, I am a secret socialist.

[680] Like, I want to share things and I don't really think.

[681] it's fair that um i make as much money as i do and i want to sort of spread that around i know i think you should make more i don't i don't like seeing suffering i you know what it is part of it is that i just have a really hard time with suffering in any way that you know that's like when we do the path movements which is another place i help with people assisting the homeless like i move my friends and i gather my group of friends to move transitionally homeless families into apartments because That's what I should be doing with my time.

[682] Yeah.

[683] And I applaud all that stuff.

[684] But I do think, I do think everyone's selfish.

[685] I think everything's selfishly motivated.

[686] But in mine is selfish too.

[687] Look at the results I'm doing.

[688] Look how happy I am with my life because I spend my time doing that.

[689] I guess I'm just saying if I were young and I were listening to you, I wonder if I would feel daunted or overwhelmed by the notion that you have to have this desire to do something.

[690] selfless because you either have it or you don't but I do I'm trying to put a spin on it that says you know it's actually selfish in a great way to be of service to other people because it ends up making you feel a way that you can be your best yeah I don't think that your spin is correct I think everyone should be of service more and if everyone was of service more we would live in a lot better world I think people need to get over themselves I think like you don't need to have that many mirrors in your house, you need to start thinking about other people.

[691] And that's just always the place that I've, that's always the lane I've driven in.

[692] And it yields excellent results for me because at the end of those days, I feel awesome.

[693] I feel really, really helpful.

[694] And that self -esteem.

[695] Yeah, well, you value yourself in a very healthy way, which means you put up with less stuff as well throughout your life.

[696] Yeah, exactly.

[697] I don't put up with bullshit.

[698] I'm not a victim.

[699] But I also, I want to leave the earth better than I found it.

[700] Mm -hmm.

[701] But I do think when people, I think there's, and we've observed this with tons of our friends who date, and you see as they get a little happier or a little healthier or a little more confident than the people that they date, they seem to, you seem to match self -esteem with your partner.

[702] Yeah.

[703] So two people who feel terrible about themselves think they deserve each other and they, and then it's just riddled with all these things.

[704] but you seem to match, you know, whatever your own self -esteem levels at.

[705] Yeah.

[706] Don't you think?

[707] Yeah, because you have excellent.

[708] Well, you have very good self -esteem, but then you also have a ton of insecurities.

[709] I mean, I have insecurities too.

[710] Yeah, I'm very prone to self -loathing for sure.

[711] Yeah.

[712] So one of the, the only professional downside that I've observed is in the past, And I think you're way better at this now.

[713] And I think it's very clear to you now exactly what you are.

[714] No, that's not what I was going to say.

[715] Oh.

[716] I was going to say there have been times over the last 10 years where you wanted to be everything.

[717] Yeah.

[718] You know, we were lucky enough to know Tina Faye and Amy Poehler.

[719] And when we've hung out with them afterwards, you felt like, fuck, I need to be as funny as those two.

[720] Like, right?

[721] I need to.

[722] And then there are roles in movies you've wanted that are deeply dramatic.

[723] The person that's going to play that role probably really was in a terrible car accident or raped three dozen times.

[724] You know, you've also wanted to play those super dark people.

[725] Yeah.

[726] The Sean Penn roles.

[727] Yeah.

[728] And how is it that over the years you have kind of gotten more comfortable being exactly.

[729] who you are because by my estimation you have like to me what makes someone unique or what makes them appealing is that they have a unique recipe of funny dramatic interesting sparkly whatever it is and it's that unique combination of those that makes that person appealing and often you can be trying to you know accentuate some other aspect of yourself more than you naturally are vice versa and to me it seems like you've found a perfect lane that you're in now and which is you're just you.

[730] You are funny.

[731] You're a great dramatic actor.

[732] You are a great singer.

[733] You are not the best singer.

[734] You're not the best dramatic actor.

[735] You are one of the best female comedians.

[736] You know, like...

[737] Well, I feel lucky to be here.

[738] You know what it is?

[739] It's ease of life.

[740] I'm looking for the easiest lane.

[741] I'm not here to suffer.

[742] I'm just not.

[743] And so, yes, if I spend my time after having hung out with the brilliant and lovely Tina and Amy, if I spend my time talking to myself about how I'm not as funny as they are and I never will be and how can I be as funny as they are, it's misery.

[744] Well, and that's something you and I talk about a ton which is comparing yourself to people, right?

[745] I don't want a comparison hangover.

[746] You get comparison hangovers.

[747] Every lip gloss in my drawer is fine until I see Monica's lip gloss and then I want that one.

[748] It's all comparison.

[749] It's useless and it's a waste of fucking time.

[750] Yeah.

[751] It doesn't really matter what you done or accomplished in your life, you will definitely be able to find someone who's much better at whatever thing you're trying to.

[752] You know, living in a group that's too big.

[753] We're supposed to be living in groups of 115 where somebody is the best at everything.

[754] Someone's the best bike rider.

[755] Someone's the best baker.

[756] And now we live in the age of social media where you truly see the best of the best and everyone feels less than.

[757] I just don't have time for it.

[758] Part of it is because I've had kids and I realized that I can get self -esteem in a ton of other ways, being a good mom or being a wife or getting the right garland, which I still need to do, by the way, to go to Michaels for the house.

[759] By the way, this piece was brought to you by Michaels.

[760] By Michaels.

[761] Please check out any number of their 1 ,400 locations nationwide.

[762] But it's, it's that I just don't have time.

[763] I don't have time to suffer.

[764] Right.

[765] I just don't.

[766] I want to choose the easiest lane.

[767] I want to choose things that make me feel good.

[768] So thinking about how I'm less than doesn't make me feel good.

[769] Right.

[770] Doing a move in for a homeless family that's moving out of a shelter makes me feel good.

[771] Well, also, for me, if I'm comparing myself to other people, I almost every time feel worse.

[772] But if I compare myself to a previous version of myself, I feel really fucking good.

[773] Exactly.

[774] Yeah.

[775] And I think you, since I've known you, have gotten incrementally better every single year.

[776] I've known you.

[777] Well, that's.

[778] Despite what you said about your boobs post kid.

[779] Large in part to do with the things that you've taught me about self -improvement and the things that like we've learned in therapy.

[780] but really even less than what we've learned in therapy and more than what you've taught me about self -improvement and a fierce moral inventory and really like AA training.

[781] Like I think...

[782] Everyone should go to AA.

[783] Really, AA should be the most required thing.

[784] It should be taught in first grade.

[785] We act like it's treating alcoholism, but it's actually treating humanism.

[786] Yeah, it's treating the human condition.

[787] And it's so helpful to go through those steps.

[788] You are so much happier when you come out the other end.

[789] Yeah.

[790] And so you just brought up something that we're both really fascinating, which is, yes, so throughout time, homo sapiens have been here for, you know, 175 ,000 years.

[791] And for 95 % of that, we were living in groups of 200 members.

[792] So you were going to be the best at something.

[793] You know, it might not have been something spectacular, but you were going to be the fastest runner or the person that's least afraid to jump off something tall.

[794] And there was all these different ways that you could be exceptional.

[795] But now you're you're on Facebook and there are two billion people.

[796] And not only are there two billion people, but the version you're seeing of their life is curated.

[797] So you're seeing them when they jumped off the waterfall in Hawaii.

[798] You're seeing them get married.

[799] You're seeing them, you know, win a prize or whatever it is or perfectly shot on a beach where they didn't have roles in that photo.

[800] So now you're comparing yourself to two billion people at the best moments of their life.

[801] And And there is now pandemic levels of anxiety and depression among young people right now.

[802] Do you think we add to that problem, you and I?

[803] Oh, wow.

[804] I certainly hope not.

[805] Although this does border a little bit on the idea that, not that you can't help everyone, but if someone is choosing to compare themselves everywhere around every corner, I'm not not allowed to have pretty pictures on my Instagram.

[806] Right.

[807] So, but what I will say is I, particularly with social media, try to do a good job of involving...

[808] Show yourself putting boob tape on and shit like that.

[809] Yes, because, well, A, because I think every woman should know.

[810] And B, because, you know, I think people should know what people look like without makeup and, you know, unperfected and know that I have, you know, whatever the problem is I have.

[811] You have 30 or 40 people that get you ready for these red carpets.

[812] Yeah, 100%.

[813] Yeah, they're spraying your face on.

[814] Yeah, it's a lot of work.

[815] There's a lot of tape, stitches.

[816] There's a whole, I think, I certainly hope we don't add to it.

[817] I try to be real.

[818] Well, I think we can get, I think you and I often try to balance, being honest about how much work this relationship requires.

[819] Yeah, it's a lot of work.

[820] It's like so much work with you.

[821] You know, that we've gone to couples therapy or that, you know, you know what we do to try to you know daily stay together we're very kind of honest about that and I do wonder sometimes if people are like oh shut up we get it you fucking are in a normal relationship but here's where you and I differ and here's where your lower self -esteem is coming in I don't care if anyone's saying shut up oh yeah you know what I mean sure I know in my heart the right thing to I am always yeah I am always anticipating what burns someone well I'm yeah I think again because of going to the special ed room or being from a broken family in a neighborhood that was mostly married.

[822] Whatever it is, I am always trying to anticipate what shitty things someone's going to say to me and have a retort for it.

[823] And that's like hardwired.

[824] If you don't like what I'm posting, no one's requiring you to follow me. You're not legally obligated to follow me. I'm posting things I think that will make people smile.

[825] Jason Bateman always says there's nothing funny about perfection.

[826] And I think a great way to attack, that's the way I I sort of attack social media because social media in my mind, it's, you know, it can swerve so negative and sometimes it's about, you know, politics.

[827] But ultimately, I think it should be something that makes people smile, not that gives them a comparison hangover.

[828] And I don't think there's anything funny about perfection.

[829] So whenever I do post something, I try to make it as real as possible.

[830] And even if it is, you know, something that seems braggy, I try to bring it down a notch.

[831] Yeah, you also deal with like people's negative comments on Twitter better than I do, just in just in.

[832] general.

[833] Yeah, because you know what, it does tend to really upset me. It does, I know, I see you on the couch when you're going to Twitter.

[834] But I'm not much better.

[835] I just don't, well, yeah, I like to engage in debates.

[836] I know and then you go into the bedroom.

[837] People have never even met.

[838] Uh -huh.

[839] I have no idea if they're the crazy guy in front of 7 -11 with a fucking parrot on his shoulder.

[840] I treat that person as if we are on stage at Rice Hall at UCLA debating.

[841] But here's the thing.

[842] If somebody says something nasty, it says everything about you and everything about them.

[843] I agree with you.

[844] And when I'm in a healthy state of mine, I agree with you 100%.

[845] But to this point, I think you and I try to tell people that if you think you're going to be at the grocery store and meet somebody and that person is going to be perfect for you.

[846] And then you're going to be able to put it in neutral and just coast on into your retirement.

[847] That's crazy.

[848] It's fucking nuts, right?

[849] Because something that I see a lot when I'm reading Twitter replies is like, I just need to find my.

[850] Kristen Bell or I just need to find my Dax and I just want to let everyone know that we had a long road before we were found contentment wouldn't you agree I think you're not looking at it from every angle the those simple replies I think are you know sometimes women sometimes men mostly women probably saying it's possible I think the fact that we lead with how difficult it is and how much work it takes is the honest way to do it.

[851] And I think we're not giving misinformation.

[852] We're not saying, look how easy this is.

[853] And then they respond with, I need to find my Dax Shepherd or Kristen Bell.

[854] Right.

[855] Because when we met, it was not a thunderbolt from either of us, right?

[856] But we were at a dinner party and we basically, I had just broken up with somebody.

[857] So I was in any state of mind to be looking for a suitor.

[858] You didn't know who I was.

[859] I didn't know who You told a really cute story about shopping at Target.

[860] And I thought, oh, that's great.

[861] This gal is a movie star and she shops at Target.

[862] Target's a great store.

[863] And I, I'm super pumped at like the 40 % off discount.

[864] And I found that appealing.

[865] But I think you're underestimating.

[866] You're acting like we're giving people a comparison hangover.

[867] And I think maybe we're just giving people hope.

[868] Like, well, no, I'm not acting like we're giving people that.

[869] I'm bringing up why we are always leading with that.

[870] Oh, okay.

[871] Well, because you sound like...

[872] I think we do a good job of...

[873] You were saying, is it a problem when people say...

[874] Yeah, are we part of the problem?

[875] I don't think so, because we're leading with all the imperfections.

[876] We're being honest.

[877] And I think, look, a lot of good change comes from people having hope.

[878] In dark times, you want to see hope.

[879] You don't meet dark times.

[880] Well, that's what I personally wrestle with is like, oh, you know what?

[881] Fairy tales exist for a reason.

[882] Myths exist for a reason.

[883] Yeah.

[884] It's fine that there's a fairy tale or a myth that people believe in that warms their soul.

[885] And the idea that you can find someone who desires self -improvement and communication and betterment and a life alongside you and that that commitment is possible because around every corner people don't do enough self -improvement.

[886] Right.

[887] Life in general.

[888] Well, it's very hard to change.

[889] You have to have something generally life -threatening before you'll change.

[890] Right.

[891] And you might have.

[892] I didn't, though.

[893] I guess my life.

[894] life -threatening thing would be like when I met you I wasn't nearly as healthy and the the life -threatening thing would be would I lose you you know if I didn't change if I didn't become less jealous and more flexible and I just think giving people hope I think there's being a sort of shiny light of saying like this is possible and it comes it has to come from both sides you have to know your self -esteem and meet someone that deserves you I think all those things are good things to pump out into the world yeah and I do think um what you had when we met that I believed pretty quickly was you are at your core a very good person like I can trust you because there were all these moments when we were first dating right that you because your family and my family are so different like when I'd ask you to get me water exactly so my you know I grew up with a single mother single mother working midnights as a janitor with three kids one a baby one a teenager and not making enough money So the way you showed each other that you loved one another was to not be a fucking drag on them.

[895] To be self -sufficient and not pull at the already decimated resources, right?

[896] So in my family, being needy is basically like saying, I don't love you or don't value what you're going through.

[897] So we would be early on, we would be dating and we'd both be sitting on the couch and you would say, can you get me a glass of water?

[898] Yeah.

[899] And I thought that was.

[900] Let's not label that as needy.

[901] let's label that as I was looking you know I no no I'm saying what my family was like and then yeah yeah when we would be on the couch and you'd ask me to go get you a glass of water I was interpreting like oh she doesn't value at all my you know what things I'm already dealing with and this is and I was afraid that if I got up and got you a glass of water I was establishing a pattern and that for the rest of my life you would just sit on the couch and never get your own water and I would get it for you until I realized that you were a good person like I believe you are a good person and it allowed me to stop questioning your intentions or what patterns we were going to fall into and and then I now I do get you and the thing I think you weren't seeing like sometimes guys don't know when their eyes dart down at boobs the thing you weren't seeing at that time and I you see it now is there were just as many times where we were sitting on the couch and simply because I was excited about the fact that you were my boyfriend and I like to nurture, I'd look over at you and I'd say, can I get you anything?

[902] Oh yeah.

[903] And you would always say no. Right.

[904] Because I couldn't bear to be needy.

[905] And I would say, are you sure?

[906] And sometimes still get up and go to the kitchen and get us both a glass of water or whatever it was.

[907] But I wanted to establish a relationship of nurturing and not dependency, but depending on each other to be the comfort in the zone where everything is okay so it's super healthy and i agree that it was that is how you should be um but but that again that's where like an objective well no i what i was hearing was i don't love you yeah that is the that in my family would equal i don't love you you would never ask someone to do something for you that you could do for yourself so i and this is where like an objective outside therapist helps because Harry could listen to us talk and he could go, oh, I know exactly what's happening.

[908] He's hearing this and you're hearing that.

[909] And actually mine is the polar opposite because in my family, doing things for someone else is how you show them.

[910] You love them.

[911] And there's also, if you're taking up 90 % of the relationship, you're only leaving the other person 10%.

[912] So give the opportunity to the other person to nurture you and let because you get self -esteem from taking care of something.

[913] It's what husbands get it.

[914] Wives get it.

[915] Parents get it towards kids.

[916] Kids get it towards animals.

[917] When you're taking care of something, you feel good about yourself.

[918] So I would offer to take care of you.

[919] Can I get you anything?

[920] And I would be denying you.

[921] Right.

[922] You were denying me. It's like when I try to buy my mom dinner and she doesn't want me to because she's the mom.

[923] And I tell her, you're denying me this great pleasure of being able to spoil you now since you spoiled me my whole life.

[924] Right.

[925] And when I was asking you for water.

[926] And when she heard that, then she's, she could get on board.

[927] Right.

[928] You have to explain it.

[929] And when I was asking you for water, I was giving you the opportunity to provide and protect for me, even if it was just with a glass of water.

[930] Yeah.

[931] Although I was always dying to protect you.

[932] I know, but I don't want you to protect me the way you want.

[933] I don't want you to punch anyone.

[934] I want to fight like 10 guys in your honor.

[935] When you've jumped out of the car, when someone has hurled a big gulp at our windshield on Sunset Boulevard and you pulled the emergency break and got out and kicked the shit out of him.

[936] And I don't like that kind of stuff.

[937] You didn't get horny when I did that.

[938] No, I did not.

[939] See, I would I would say that that was a moment where you grew towards me, which I always appreciated, which is, here's a situation that makes you very uncomfortable, me beating a guy up on the sidewalk.

[940] And when I got back in the car, I knew I was in very big trouble.

[941] And you assessed that the last thing I needed at that moment was to hear more bad shit and to be told I was.

[942] not a good boy and we got to a restaurant and I had well we thought maybe broke I yeah I thought we broke my leg from kicking the person and you got up to go to the bathroom or so I thought and you had gone into the back of the restaurant and had them make a big bag of ice and you came back to the table and you just slid it under the table and I put it on my leg and I just thought that was so generous of you because I'm sure you wanted to go listen man I don't want to be in fights on the side of the road That's not what life I'm trying to live.

[943] I moved out of Michigan for a reason.

[944] So I just thought that was very big of you.

[945] Number one.

[946] I appreciated it.

[947] Well, you're welcome.

[948] I was growing towards you.

[949] I was doing that because I loved you and I knew you didn't need to hear that.

[950] Secretly, it was also the stronger move.

[951] Yeah.

[952] It was a, it was a check.

[953] To go, I'm not going to say anything.

[954] You're going to know how I'm seething.

[955] Yeah.

[956] But then.

[957] And I did.

[958] But then I'm also going to.

[959] do.

[960] I'm also going to get you a glass of water.

[961] I'm inclined to get up off the couch and get you a glass of water.

[962] You need something.

[963] I'm going to take an active step to show you how I love you without embarrassment or humiliation.

[964] And I'm going to do something for you to show how I provide and protect and nurture you, which is I'm going to get out of the, get up from the table and say I need to go to the restroom, secretly come back with a bag of ice, not tell anyone else at the table and slide it to you because I want to meet your needs.

[965] Yeah.

[966] It was very appreciated.

[967] And this is my whole point about how I look at life.

[968] Look at what I got out of that.

[969] I got maybe one of the most formidable moments of when you fell in love with me and I now have your undying trust because you know I protect you.

[970] I earned that and I earned that by being actively good to you.

[971] Yeah.

[972] Not by demanding why don't you ask me about my day.

[973] Like all the things we demand of each other.

[974] In spite of me having done something that would normally warrant.

[975] Right.

[976] But you can get all the things you want in life by being actively good to another person.

[977] That's where my perspective comes from, you know, I didn't...

[978] Well, in knowing me, had you started, you know, picking apart why that was not the right thing to do, I would have just gotten defensive and explained why that type of behaviors required or you'll get killed.

[979] I know you would have.

[980] I look at every problem from the solution backwards.

[981] I don't do it perfectly every time, but I try to look at it from the solution backwards.

[982] Yeah.

[983] Another nice thing you really did that I want to bring up because it just reminded me of it is when my father was dying in 2012 I was going back to Michigan a lot and obviously you couldn't come with me because you were working and I was working and so I was just getting enough time to be doing that and so I was back just before Christmas and I was having a very hard time with it harder than I was anticipating and there were so many people in this hospital room friends of his and I didn't feel like I was getting the time with him one -on -one that I wanted to or they would start crying about his condition and then I'd be left to comfort them and I was so mad that I was spending my time with my dad comforting strangers and it was weighing on me a ton so I left and I went and built a wheelchair ramp in front of his house so that I could take him home and you had talked to me the night before and then I built the wheelchair ramp I came back to the hospital and I called you and I said I'm going to go back into the hospital room and I'm just so bummed that all these people in there and I just want time with him and I was pretty emotional.

[984] You were saying you didn't think you could handle it.

[985] Yeah.

[986] And then someone knocked on my window in my car and I turned to my left and looked and it was you, you were standing there on the phone.

[987] I thought I was talking to you in L .A., but you had secretly flown home and you knew where the hospital was and you surprised me. And that was really nice.

[988] Well, you're welcome.

[989] But when I spoke to you the night before, again, I'm an empath.

[990] I can tell what's happening in your voice.

[991] I could, I also knew you got, you were acting very sexy.

[992] Sexy wasn't the word I was going to say.

[993] You were, you were acting very nonchalant about the fact that your father was dying.

[994] And I didn't say anything, but I could obviously see that that was a misrepresentation of what, what the emotions that were actually in there.

[995] Yeah.

[996] And I, so I was monitoring that closely from a distance, closely from a distance.

[997] Right.

[998] Right up close and personal from a distance.

[999] Yeah, from very, very far away.

[1000] And I, I don't, you didn't say anything in particular other than I just could sense it.

[1001] I just could sense that you needed me like you, like you needed me to get you ice without telling anyone.

[1002] I just could sense it.

[1003] And so I just booked a flight and flew on a Friday night.

[1004] And then the highlight was we went in together.

[1005] And you were very pregnant.

[1006] You were like seven months pregnant.

[1007] And then my dad who wasn't talking at that point, right?

[1008] And he just felt your belly for about an hour.

[1009] He was very attracted to you too.

[1010] Mm -hmm.

[1011] Oh, I know.

[1012] He made that clear.

[1013] Yeah.

[1014] When we first started dating, Kristen went home to Michigan and thought, oh, I'll be nice.

[1015] In an attempt to impress Dax, as I do often, I said, I'm going to get to know his family while I'm here.

[1016] And again, I'm going to do something that's.

[1017] seems selfless so that it will feel selfish because I gain something.

[1018] I'm going to get to know his dad.

[1019] I'm going to come home and be like, I spend time with your dad and he's going to look at me adoringly and that was my plan.

[1020] And your dad, I made a date with your dad to take me out to some disgusting chain restaurant and he picked me up and one of the first things he said, I was getting into his car, which was like full of old water bottles.

[1021] And one of the first things he said to me was, oh, I got to show you this x -ray.

[1022] look at my hip and he pulled out these x -rays from the back seat.

[1023] His whole back seat was full of x -rays.

[1024] Yeah, x -rays and water bottles.

[1025] And then we went to a chain restaurant and we talked about you and I politely watched him skewer the waiter about everything because he hates waiters and everything waiters do are wrong.

[1026] And so...

[1027] There is no level of service that met his standards.

[1028] Well, suggesting the daily special was like pushing something on him in a way that he like making him choose a different career path or something.

[1029] Sure.

[1030] Yeah, very threatening.

[1031] The cod, if you don't want the cod.

[1032] Threatening his identity.

[1033] Yes.

[1034] So I then went home and he dropped me off.

[1035] And I remember like an hour later, I got a text that said, pick you up again tomorrow.

[1036] He was making a second day.

[1037] Yeah, so you had to go out with him twice.

[1038] On a very short trip home.

[1039] He really monopolized your time.

[1040] But he was lovely.

[1041] Yeah.

[1042] He was very attracted to you, I think.

[1043] I think only in the way of competition.

[1044] Only the way of competing with you.

[1045] The other funny thing about that was is, at the beginning of when I was going back home you were just barely pregnant like you weren't showing and we were trying to keep it very secret.

[1046] We didn't want anyone to know right and I told him and I said you know I'm going to tell you this but you can't tell anyone okay and then later he was in the hospital and as I was walking down the hallway to see him in his room I passed three different nurses that were like congratulations I heard your wife Kristen Bell is pregnant yeah he was not trustworthy No, you could not trust him at all with the secret.

[1047] Mm -mm.

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] It's all right.

[1050] He had other qualities.

[1051] He did.

[1052] Everybody's got their stuff, you know?

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] Now, let's talk about the worst thing that I did not intend in talking to you about this, but the worst thing I think I ever did in your presence.

[1055] I know exactly what it is.

[1056] Yeah.

[1057] So we have a longstanding issue with leaving the house on time.

[1058] I think it's a very male, female, normal thing.

[1059] I'm not good at it.

[1060] I'm admittedly not good at it.

[1061] I'm about 10 minutes.

[1062] I'm neurotic about being.

[1063] on time or early to places.

[1064] Yeah, to a fault.

[1065] And I think that's a waste.

[1066] And you're late to a fault.

[1067] So this is a recipe for disaster.

[1068] And it always rears its ugly head, particularly when we go to the movies.

[1069] Because I like to get there with plenty of time to get that popcorn and get my soda.

[1070] And I don't see the point of my day when I have to get to a movie theater 25 minutes in advance and sit in a light theater, especially since even during that 25 minutes when I've like just patronized you and been like, fine, we'll get there whatever time you want.

[1071] And, like, you won't let me go out and look at the movie posters because you're like, it's about to start.

[1072] Well, normally we're late, too.

[1073] Probably more often than that.

[1074] I can't have this conversation with you.

[1075] Just tell the story.

[1076] So we were, this was one of our worst times of leaving the house.

[1077] I was very pissed by the time we pulled out of the driveway.

[1078] And I was driving.

[1079] We were going to see, never say never, the Justin Dever documentary.

[1080] I was seeing it for the second time because I enjoyed it so much.

[1081] Yes.

[1082] And I was driving.

[1083] you know even faster than normal to get there because I was afraid we were going to be late and I came flying around this corner at Argyle and something in Hollywood and it's kind of a gentle right turn I think it's probably a 15 mile an hour turn yeah and yucca and I went through that turn at about 50 miles an hour and there was a huge group of pigeons in the road and in my life experience up to that point you can't hit a pigeon even if you wanted to hit a pigeon you can't hit them they always get out of the way of your car and um in this on this occasion they did not get out of the way and you hit upwards of 20 pigeons it was like it was the worst at the windshield oh my god even saying it now i feel even worse than i did then um it was it was brutal it was uh it was a terrible terrible thing i lost my breath and we were already fighting so When that happened, I knew this is over.

[1084] Like, she may leave me over this.

[1085] It was, it was bad.

[1086] It was really rough.

[1087] You're not exaggerating that it sounded like running over like a long line of cones or something.

[1088] Yeah, for sure.

[1089] And we got to the movie theater and we were meeting friends there who had kids and we sat down.

[1090] I wasn't speaking.

[1091] Yep, you were not going to talk to me. And I cried through the first third of never seen.

[1092] never.

[1093] Yeah.

[1094] And I apologize like a hundred times.

[1095] And I said I don't want to speak to you right now.

[1096] That's right.

[1097] And my one regret.

[1098] This is more a story about the power of that movie, right?

[1099] Yeah, really brought us out.

[1100] Because we were by the end of that movie, we were laughing and crying and cheering about Bieber.

[1101] It really pulled us out of it, didn't it?

[1102] That's true.

[1103] Well, my one regret is that I thought about right after we did it, making you get out and check for signs of life and I didn't do that and I'm very regretful even to this day because thinking one of those pigeons could have suffered again happiness versus suffering because of something that we did collectively we did yes I was 10 minutes late I wasn't there 25 minutes in advance to the arc light theater but you were speeding and acting like a fucking crazy person to try to get to the theater which I did not think was an okay expectation to have it was an uncalled for speed for sure Yes.

[1104] And then we got, I still, I was so stunned as to what had just occurred in my life that I didn't have the wherewithal.

[1105] And this is, very, very few moments do I regret where I didn't have the wherewithal to like find my moxie and say what I meant and what I wanted.

[1106] But right after the documentary.

[1107] Which, which healed us a bit.

[1108] We were at least on speaking terms when the movie ended.

[1109] Well, because I realized I wasn't going to leave you over this.

[1110] But what I was going to do is tell you we will drive, which I did, we are going to drive.

[1111] past.

[1112] And make sure none of them need to be put out of their misery.

[1113] And if they are, you are going to get out of the car and you are going to do it with your bare hands.

[1114] Yes.

[1115] Because if you're going to kill them in the car, you should be able to kill them with your bare hands.

[1116] I mean, we should have eaten them really.

[1117] Your responsibility.

[1118] Yeah.

[1119] And we drove past and thankfully none of them.

[1120] But a couple of them were dead in the road.

[1121] Yep.

[1122] And just when I thought, oh, thank God, this movie kind of got us back to talking, you said we need to go back now.

[1123] And I was like, oh, Jesus, we're going back to the scene.

[1124] of the crime.

[1125] And we're going to relive this whole thing.

[1126] You're going to either perform CPR or you're going to break their necks.

[1127] Right.

[1128] And that is going to be what's something that you're going to have to deal with.

[1129] Yes.

[1130] And we went back and there were a few dead birds and luckily none of them were suffering.

[1131] I didn't have to do anything morbid as it turns out.

[1132] That was rough.

[1133] Yeah.

[1134] Yeah.

[1135] But again, you, in light of that, I did probably the worst thing I could do by your standards is I murdered some innocent animals, which is a big, no, no, you're an animal lover.

[1136] I've grown into one.

[1137] I felt terrible too, but I was too worried that my relationship was over, I think, to truly mourn the birds and the way they deserve.

[1138] But, again, I was grateful the way you handled that.

[1139] It could have gone a much different way.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] But you could feel how sincere I was that I felt really, really terrible about that, right?

[1142] Yeah.

[1143] Well, and I also in my head went like, well, he didn't hit a kid.

[1144] This will serve as a learning lesson that, yes, I can try to be more on time, but you cannot freak out and panic.

[1145] Like, if we're late for, you know, I don't even know what would be an event that we'd have to freak out that much, like a...

[1146] Well, there really isn't one, is there?

[1147] There isn't, but now that doesn't give me...

[1148] Not one that deserves driving through a group of birds.

[1149] No, but that does, I'm not trying to make that as an excuse for like, I can be late for anything, but even if it was really important, it still can't deserve that amount of crazy behavior.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] Right.

[1152] Yeah.

[1153] And I knew that that was the, I didn't need to teach you any of that lesson.

[1154] That lesson was learned by those dead versions.

[1155] Well, similarly, I knew as I got back in the car after beating that guy up, that that was, that was not the right move for you.

[1156] And it was, and the great thing is I, you put me through such a severe situation that I went, oh, this is never going to happen again in my relationship.

[1157] So if I can handle this one time.

[1158] Well, again, because as we were saying early, you do at the end of the day trust that I am a good person at my core.

[1159] Yeah, very much.

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] Well, we didn't say that.

[1162] You just said that out of the blue just now.

[1163] No, I said that the reason I was, wait, what?

[1164] I've been saying it about you.

[1165] Yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes.

[1166] But yes, I also believe that you are a very good person at your core.

[1167] And you're also a person who maybe more than anyone I've ever met learns from your mistakes and learns from your experiences.

[1168] So I actually knew that like, oh, I'll never have to have this fight again.

[1169] We'll never talk about whether or not beating someone up is okay.

[1170] Like this, I don't know.

[1171] It just, it felt like something had been put to bed and we had gotten over something together.

[1172] Well, I end up like that you've actually, on a couple different occasions have said I could beat someone up, which I also appreciate it.

[1173] There's been one or two occasions where you thought it was okay, which made me feel good.

[1174] Because then I thought, oh, well, she's rational about this.

[1175] Like, there may be a situation where I have.

[1176] Oh, like if you need to knock someone out.

[1177] Yeah.

[1178] Well, the dude I caught taking upskirt picture at LAX the other day.

[1179] And then I confronted him at LAX.

[1180] Yeah.

[1181] L .A .X is personal sheriff.

[1182] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I wouldn't mind it if you laid him out.

[1183] Right, I like that.

[1184] I think it's well documented that you're a bleeding heart liberal, and I'm pretty close to a bleeding heart liberal.

[1185] But one thing I find unique in your perspective and I really appreciate is you are able to see both sides and try to find the middle lane.

[1186] And a lot of these situations, you're not afraid to buck the part.

[1187] line, right?

[1188] And I do think something that's weird about where we're at today is everyone's trying to evaluate what the impact of social media is and all this technology is.

[1189] And the thing that I think is happening that's weird is computers run on binary opposition, a one or a zero.

[1190] That's how they function.

[1191] So there's only two options.

[1192] And I feel like somehow that has invaded ourselves where now humans more than ever are everything's binary you're left or you're right you're conservative or you're a liberal you're good or you're evil and I think that you have a very healthy view on that people are both good and evil and that there's you don't need to be you know broadly saying well this person's perfect and I I revere them and I will defend them against anything or this person's just evil.

[1193] Well, I think that that comes from shedding the skin that I grew up with, which is people who do drugs are bad, people who are gay are sinners or whatever it is.

[1194] And then realizing happiness is everywhere.

[1195] And really, the only two things you need to focus on is happiness and suffering.

[1196] It's not good and evil.

[1197] It's not black and white.

[1198] It's not red or blue.

[1199] It's happiness and suffering, period.

[1200] And I also think that, you know, and the one thing that I like to talk about in the age of social media is just like is clickbait is is the lack of nuance in any conversation because the conversation.

[1201] Or context.

[1202] There's zero context.

[1203] Yeah.

[1204] The context, the nuance, the details.

[1205] They're very important to a story.

[1206] It's like, you know, you could say, hey, see this movie.

[1207] It's about XYZ.

[1208] And you go, oh, I'm not really interested in that.

[1209] And then you see it.

[1210] You see two hours of context.

[1211] You see two hours of the nuance of the movie.

[1212] And then you're like, that's the.

[1213] best movie I've ever seen.

[1214] The story...

[1215] Some of the best movies ever made have the worst one -liner explanation.

[1216] The story surrounding something is vital.

[1217] It is the existence of said things.

[1218] So I think in every conversation we're having publicly right now, like, you know, you're not politically, you're never going to find a politician with a perfect voting record.

[1219] And do you know why?

[1220] Because we're human beings.

[1221] We are all apes.

[1222] And at five years ago, when that person voted on the wrong side of the line, it's because at that point, they were probably doing the best they could with what they had.

[1223] And the bottom line is do you trust them now?

[1224] Do you trust that way back when they were allowed to make a mistake?

[1225] I also think we don't allow each other to make mistakes.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] I personally want I like.

[1228] And I think it's part of that whole curated lifestyle thing, which is like we even have a friend.

[1229] We have a friend who's very, very smart.

[1230] And we both respect a ton.

[1231] And he found, I guess Facebook does these time capsule things, right, where they'll send you a picture that you took eight years ago or whatever.

[1232] And he had gone to a Halloween time.

[1233] party dressed as an Indian from the subcontinent.

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] Well, it was a Pilgrims and Indians Thanksgiving party.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] And then so his clever take on it was, oh, he was an Indian from India.

[1238] And he was mortified by this and he took it down, right?

[1239] He went through his Facebook and got rid of it, which is surely the ethical thing to do, I suppose.

[1240] But it did scare me in that.

[1241] No, you're still a great, impressive person with that in your background.

[1242] You know, that's something, that's a decision you made seven years ago that at that time felt right.

[1243] And now by today's standards, it's probably not right.

[1244] And now we're going to pretend, because it is just pretending that it didn't happen.

[1245] And it's not, you're never getting the full story.

[1246] So now you're evaluating your own life next to these other people's lives who have been edited.

[1247] Well, but I also, but I think there's a medium even to what you're talking about.

[1248] And it is, yes, I did it.

[1249] If ever brought up, I could defend it in saying, you know what?

[1250] Cultural appropriation wasn't really like a public discussion back then.

[1251] And it felt okay for some reason.

[1252] And I don't know why it felt okay.

[1253] I just know that I didn't have malicious intentions.

[1254] And now I see how it could possibly cause someone to suffer.

[1255] And so I pulled it down because I don't have any intent for anyone to be offended.

[1256] So I see where actually even pulling it down is okay.

[1257] But it's like the hiding all of it.

[1258] of our mistakes is what bothers me. The pressure of, oh, well, so here's yet another person who's not made any mistakes or made a bad judgment call, you know.

[1259] That's kind of what I mean.

[1260] I've made a ton of bad judgment calls.

[1261] And you have to.

[1262] And one thing I love most about you is your willingness to cite specific mistakes to talk about how you've evolved.

[1263] Well, I've done every bad thing you can do, I think.

[1264] I know.

[1265] Yeah.

[1266] And I, yeah, I just, I, think we don't give ourselves and each other enough forgiveness and because the bottom line is no one's perfect no one's no one's got a spotless record what things do you do is there anything that any characteristic of yours that that is associated with you either publicly or even in your friendship group that you feel fraudulent about like do you ever feel like a fraud when you're laying in bed yeah yeah how outgoing I am because in my elder years in the sunset of my life i'm realizing i'm real it's not twilight yet more sunset i'm realizing i'm not as outgoing as i think i am i enjoy that to a this is a stupid one but it's just the first one that came to my mind like i enjoy coming and cheering having up everyone up and being the life of a party and being bubbly but i'm realizing i don't enjoy it past a certain point i never really know what that point is but i'm really recognizing that i i'm a 50 % an introvert and I'm becoming more comfortable with turning down plans, saying no to things, or even being in my house.

[1267] You also have depression.

[1268] Yeah, for sure.

[1269] But that's not necessarily linked to my depression.

[1270] That actually fixes my depression.

[1271] My depression comes out more when I'm trying to be everything for everybody.

[1272] And I'm trying to stay bubbly in the life of the party and the smiley one because sometimes I just don't want to be.

[1273] Sometimes I want to, even when you're home and we have friends over, I want to retreat into my room to read a book.

[1274] book and be quiet with myself and I'm realizing in these sunset years I'm that I'm okay with that I don't know I I what would you say I'm fraudulent about because you know me very well and you also do a better job of pointing out my flaws than I do no I don't have it I doesn't I'm not in the business of telling you your flaws I'm just curious I mean there's a million times where I'll feel fraudulent um I think when I see all those relationship goal hashtags on our thing I think oh fuck I have to be the perfect um partner and i'm not the perfect partner and i you know do regrettable things we're wearing different glasses because i actually think the reason that we get those hashtags or whatever it is is because we're so honest about and clear about how difficult it is right because no well that's what i'm really proud of you for always being honest publicly about having depression and being on medication because i could imagine being 19 years old and knowing you're in frozen and seeing your TV show and thinking, oh, I'm fucked up because I have these spells where I don't enjoy anything in life and I don't want to get out of bed and I hate myself.

[1275] And, you know, I wish I could be like her when that is part of you.

[1276] Yeah, well, that came from you because if you'll remember, I was about to do Sam Jones, the long form interview show.

[1277] And I said, I don't have anything to talk about.

[1278] What should I talk about because I get utterly nauseated when actress talk about their craft too much.

[1279] Yeah.

[1280] Luckily, you and I don't have much craft.

[1281] That's true.

[1282] Fick until you make it.

[1283] And you said, why don't you talk about your depression and anxiety?

[1284] And I said, that's kind of a great idea.

[1285] In fact, I didn't recognize it until you said it, but it's the most responsible thing I could do.

[1286] Because what I don't want to do is make young girls or anyone who might look up to me think that this is easy or perfect or natural.

[1287] I work very hard and again I work less hard in my the sunset years because I've done it for so many years I just happiness is a choice to me just like loving someone is a choice you really get on my nerves sometimes but I've chosen to love you and I love loving you and it's the same thing with happiness you can wake up and you can feel however you want but choose to be happy Choose to see the good in the day.

[1288] Yeah, to me, that's too simple.

[1289] I think, I don't think you can choose to feel good.

[1290] I don't think you can choose to get sober.

[1291] You can't choose to not have mental.

[1292] I think you have to actively take action daily.

[1293] So, so wake up.

[1294] So for me, wake up, feel depressed.

[1295] I'm choosing not to feel depressed today.

[1296] What am I going to do?

[1297] I'm going to go down and run on the treadmill for 10 minutes.

[1298] Or I'm going to run around the block.

[1299] You make the choice and then you execute the actions that, that will get you there.

[1300] Yeah, I have a checklist.

[1301] When I feel like shit, I go through the checklist.

[1302] I'm like, oh, have I called another dude who's trying to get over?

[1303] Oh, no, I haven't done that.

[1304] Have I worked out today?

[1305] No, I probably haven't done that.

[1306] Have I taken a walk?

[1307] Have I done something I don't want to do for you?

[1308] You know, and I go through that list in 99 % of the time, I'm not doing all those things that have proven to result in happiness or contentment.

[1309] And now the reason that I've gotten over a lot of it is, well, A, because I take a medication that helps balance me. and then be that I have become habitual about the things that make me feel good.

[1310] Right.

[1311] You know, when you told that story.

[1312] I'm good at my checklist.

[1313] On Sam Jones, there was fallout.

[1314] And I think this is something, both of us, from your mom's sisters.

[1315] Oh, oh, my gosh, that's right.

[1316] And I'm curious what your opinion is on how much of your story is your story and you're entitled to tell it.

[1317] and then what obligation do you have to the people in your life for their privacy and how do you make that call of whether it's for the greater good or because I one time told and maybe it was on also on Sam Jones fuck you Sam Jones I told some long story and it involved a lot of my stepdad's and there was stuff about the violence and then I think my mom initially was embarrassed by it and she was a little bit mad and And then I felt guilty and then, but my mom's such an amazing evolved human being that like a week later, she called me and she said, you know what, I was wrong.

[1318] This is your story.

[1319] I'm part of your story and you're part of mine and you're entitled to tell your story.

[1320] I learned so much from your mom.

[1321] I know.

[1322] It was really nice because I had felt really guilty.

[1323] But it is tricky because you and I chose to be, you know, in the public light.

[1324] and it's tricky, right?

[1325] It's tricky.

[1326] I tend to lean toward, well, first of all, I'm a person, I'm a big believer in that nothing should be taboo.

[1327] I'm tired of how little we talk about sex in this country.

[1328] I'm tired of how little we talk about mistakes.

[1329] Well, I get into trouble in AA.

[1330] I'm not supposed to say AA out loud on this.

[1331] I'm not allowed to say AA in any public format, whether I'm doing a radio show interview or on TV, because you're supposed to remain anonymous at the level of press and television.

[1332] But I think that was a rule that was created in 1950, when you could lose your job because you were previously an alcoholic.

[1333] And we don't live in that world now.

[1334] If someone looks up to the way that you're handling your life and you say AA and looks into it and benefits from it, to me, proof is in the pudding.

[1335] So, yes, the fallout that you're talking about.

[1336] Also, if I publicly relapse, it will not be a failing of AA.

[1337] It'll be a failing of Dax Shepherd not working the steps in AA.

[1338] Right, right, right, right.

[1339] The fallout you're talking about was that because I made a mistake in.

[1340] in that when I was, I had understood, well, first of all, I have a very bad memory, and that's not an excuse, it's just the truth, but my, my mom, I thought, had said to me that my grandmother was one of the first people they tested electroshock therapy on.

[1341] And my grandmother was depressed, and she did drink a lot.

[1342] Yeah.

[1343] She was also a wonderful woman.

[1344] I didn't get into the fact that she was a wonderful woman.

[1345] Well, there's finite amount of time.

[1346] Right.

[1347] But rightfully so, certain members of my family were saying we feel like you sort of slandered this woman that we all love, yes, yes, and also, and I didn't mean to the truth is that they wanted, they suggested trying electroshock therapy on her, she never did it.

[1348] And so that main detail kind of stuck out because I misrepresented it because I didn't, I understood it to be something different.

[1349] Well, also you're getting information that's going through the filter of your mother and anyone that hears a story from you and I to hear two drastically different versions generally of the story.

[1350] So, so, you know, you have to recognize it already went through a filter before it went through your filter.

[1351] Right.

[1352] And also, I misheard it.

[1353] And by the way, it wasn't really the point of the story.

[1354] The point of the story was this was a generational illness.

[1355] Right.

[1356] But, but always taking a step back, I can understand how members of my family felt like I, I misrepresented resented someone that they loved very, very much and that it sort of like tarnished her record or something, which personally, having known my grandmother, I think that she, because I know she was a good person, she would want anytime she struggled to be used for the betterment of other people.

[1357] That's just personally what I believe.

[1358] So that's how I sort of felt okay after that interview, even after having been called by members of my family saying like, why did you say that?

[1359] Now it feels because anyone who loved my grandmother loved her because they knew her because she was wonderful.

[1360] Although I did sort of have to apologize because I said something that wasn't true.

[1361] They didn't test electroshock therapy on her, but they had suggested it.

[1362] And that was a point of the story in that there has been a sort of serotonin imbalance in my family for a while.

[1363] Right.

[1364] And it can be hereditary.

[1365] I mean, it's also environmental, but whatever, yeah.

[1366] But I personally don't believe things should be taboo.

[1367] I think we should be a lot more open and honest.

[1368] I mean, look, like I'm a, you know, like a really good, happy go lucky, bubbly mom, goody, goody.

[1369] And I can say with confidence, like, I've had one night stands.

[1370] And I don't.

[1371] Dozens and dozens and dozens.

[1372] Well, I'm not going to say how many.

[1373] The whole gamut, all sizes, shapes.

[1374] But like, I'm not into slut shaming.

[1375] I think women should recognize their sexuality just like men.

[1376] And even if men say they've had, like, I didn't do anything wrong.

[1377] And I don't want to let society.

[1378] society's view of something make me feel wrong.

[1379] Yeah, people underestimate that being a human is messy business.

[1380] It's just fucking messy business.

[1381] Yeah.

[1382] And you're going to make a ton of mistakes and errors.

[1383] And you've got to forgive yourself.

[1384] And if you're going to forgive yourself, you got to forgive other people.

[1385] Yeah.

[1386] And I forgive you.

[1387] I forgive you too.

[1388] Yeah.

[1389] I adore you.

[1390] I love you.

[1391] That's basically it.

[1392] That's it.

[1393] I adore you.

[1394] Anything else?

[1395] No, I wrote other stuff down, but let me. I'll ask one final question.

[1396] Okay.

[1397] You and I disagree on almost everything.

[1398] And what percentage of the time are you grateful for that dynamic?

[1399] And which percentage of the time do you wish I would just shut the fuck up and do whatever it is you want to do?

[1400] Hmm.

[1401] I was going to say 50 -50.

[1402] but I don't think that's accurate.

[1403] I think it's 70 -30.

[1404] Realistically, 65 -45.

[1405] That adds to 1 -10.

[1406] We have 100.

[1407] Well, now it's 50 -50 again.

[1408] It's 65 -35.

[1409] 65 % of the time I'm incredibly grateful for the dynamic and the amount that you challenge me and the ways in which you show me things in a new light and your ability to teach me things.

[1410] and 35 % of the time I think you're being belligerent and difficult and I wish you would be quiet because I've done a lot of dishes and done a lot of things around the house and I wish that you would just be quiet and help me. I think the thing that brings it out the most in you and I is when we watch a reality show, which we watch a bunch of.

[1411] Yeah.

[1412] Because you're in, you kind of end up in the business of judging these people's character and kind of making predictions about who they will be in future episodes.

[1413] And I'm, and you and I are always, we differ because you see wolves, I see sheep.

[1414] And that's because of the people we were exposed to.

[1415] You were around a lot of wolves.

[1416] I was around a lot of sheep.

[1417] I look for the good in people.

[1418] But I'm often arguing, look, you don't know how that was edited.

[1419] We are in the television business.

[1420] You don't know the moments that were edited out of this or how this was.

[1421] And I just get spidey senses.

[1422] I like look at the dude's eye.

[1423] And sometimes you're right.

[1424] Are you the one?

[1425] I'll see these guys eyes and I'll know right away.

[1426] And sometimes you're right.

[1427] But then there's certain times where, like, we're watching stranger things.

[1428] And I, and I nail it.

[1429] And I nail it because I'm like, the boyfriend is a good person.

[1430] And you're like, no, he's going to be the villain.

[1431] And I said, no, you love that boy.

[1432] Steve is not going to be the villain.

[1433] I do love him.

[1434] Yeah, you love him.

[1435] You love a lot of guys.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] Yeah.

[1438] It's, um, if I can list your crushes really quick, I think it's amusing.

[1439] I don't say amusing.

[1440] Well, I'll tell you why it's amusing.

[1441] Well, one is Peter Dinklage.

[1442] You're over the moon about him.

[1443] He's very sexy.

[1444] Yeah, it's very sexual.

[1445] very sexy.

[1446] Vincent Dinoffreo.

[1447] Also very sexy.

[1448] Yeah.

[1449] T .I. Big time sexy.

[1450] Yeah.

[1451] Yeah.

[1452] Riz Ahmed.

[1453] Yeah.

[1454] Also.

[1455] So, you know, when people ask me if I ever get jealous of you making out with guys in movies or whatever it is, I say to them, I wouldn't even know what to be.

[1456] I wouldn't even know where to begin on who I should be fearful of.

[1457] Because just on the surface, DeNafrio and Dinklage are just their opposite human beings in every way.

[1458] Yeah.

[1459] And, you know, they're both in your, there are both a bull's eye for you.

[1460] So I could never say like, well, I can't ever let her hang out with an NFL player because I know she's nuts about seven foot tall built dudes.

[1461] No, no, no. There's just no. It's got to be a light, lightning old personality.

[1462] Yeah.

[1463] It could be absolutely anybody.

[1464] Anyone.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] You better stay on your toes, Jack Shepherd.

[1467] Yeah.

[1468] Well, it's liberating because I go, it would be a waste of my energy to even try to predict.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] And I know you're attracted to anything with legs, both male and female.

[1471] So none of it bothers me because I can't get around it.

[1472] Yeah.

[1473] A heartbeat is a prerequisite.

[1474] But anything beyond that is probably, yeah.

[1475] It's just fun in games.

[1476] Yeah.

[1477] Have you ever dated a guy that was as high on the Kenzie spectrum as me?

[1478] What does that mean?

[1479] Well, the Kenzie spectrum of being gay, right?

[1480] I don't know how exactly it breaks down.

[1481] but I'm whatever the last number is before you actually like Dix.

[1482] I'm right there at the precipice.

[1483] Yeah.

[1484] Right?

[1485] I went to musical theater school.

[1486] Oh, that's true.

[1487] Yeah.

[1488] But do you think maybe those guys did like Dix and they just weren't open about it yet?

[1489] No. No. They were straight.

[1490] They both married women.

[1491] Oh, okay.

[1492] All right.

[1493] Then maybe it's not unique.

[1494] But I am that last stop on the train.

[1495] You are, but weirdly you're this paradox because you're also the last stop on the manliest most gorilla type guy you could get.

[1496] because a lot of guys talk about beating someone up on Sunset Boulevard.

[1497] Very few people actually do it.

[1498] So you're like, you're the full -fancy spectrum.

[1499] It's fortunate I was raised by a woman.

[1500] Whatever part you like about me is that.

[1501] Is your mom.

[1502] That I know.

[1503] I love your mom.

[1504] You met the version of me without my mom and that was my dad.

[1505] And even he had her for about 11, 11 years.

[1506] No. And this is a man that fought any and everyone at Costco that was dared go get a sample while he was getting a sample.

[1507] Yeah.

[1508] You were going to be in a fight with him.

[1509] That's just as exhausting to me. Like I don't...

[1510] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1511] I can't do it.

[1512] Well, it's through him that I, as you know, for the whole time we've been together, I've been on this, uh, I've had this goal of, of relaxing in traffic, which has been almost impossible for me to do.

[1513] I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, I have, you know, It probably was useful 20 ,000 years ago during the policing or something, but now it's completely useless.

[1514] But my father was the breakthrough for me because I was in traffic with him in Michigan and he was becoming unglued.

[1515] I mean, I really thought he was going to have like his fourth heart attack while driving the car.

[1516] And I was looking at him and I thought, oh, my God, the guy who cut him off isn't suffering at all.

[1517] That guy is about his merry way.

[1518] He's not even thinking about my dad.

[1519] And my dad has two gallons of cortisol in his blood right now.

[1520] His heart rate's 185 and he's on the verge of coronary collapse.

[1521] He's losing.

[1522] Yeah.

[1523] Even if he wins, even if he flips the guy off and the guy's scared and he drives away and victory is his, he's fucking losing.

[1524] His body is deteriorating because of this state he lets himself get in.

[1525] And I was driving to my meeting and traffic was pissing me off.

[1526] and I had an epiphany where I said, hmm, well, you live in Los Angeles and the traffic's been this way for 40, 50 years.

[1527] And it's going to continue to be this way for probably another 100 years.

[1528] So who's going to change in this scenario?

[1529] L .A. traffic or Dax?

[1530] And that's a super healthy way for you to look at it because that works for you.

[1531] And I look at it a little bit differently, which is like when I was young and my mom said, if you ever talk to a telemarketer and you're annoyed, be not.

[1532] nice because you don't know if that person's parents died yesterday.

[1533] You don't know if that person's in a wheelchair and having a bad day.

[1534] Like you don't know anyone else's life.

[1535] And I think that's a really good lesson that we should all be talking about more.

[1536] You don't know.

[1537] You don't know what's going on with me. I don't know what's going on with you.

[1538] So when I'm in traffic, granted, I don't have the DNA that you have.

[1539] But there are certain things that piss me off.

[1540] It might not be traffic.

[1541] But sometimes it is.

[1542] When I'm driving and somebody cuts me off, I don't know if there's not a pregnant woman in that car.

[1543] Maybe they're trying to get to the hospital.

[1544] I don't know if they're trying to get home because their kid broke their wrist.

[1545] Like maybe there's a medical emergency.

[1546] I don't know.

[1547] And I don't care if they are on fire in their car.

[1548] Yeah, on their way to rescue someone from a well.

[1549] If they're in the left lane going under the speed limit, they deserve the death penalty.

[1550] Yeah, I know.

[1551] And I stand by that.

[1552] I've driven with you.

[1553] My response to telemarketers is, oh my God, I'd love to talk to you about this credit card.

[1554] I'm busy right now.

[1555] Can I get your home phone number and I'll call you during dinner and we'll talk about it.

[1556] but you know what it's like you've actually as much as you hate I know they have to have a job yeah there's other jobs there's other jobs but they don't need to be met with sass I guess that's what I yeah you shouldn't be um aggressive and uh in hostile towards them but if you can make a good joke about it maybe it's where they and as much as you do hate my reaction to other drivers you do like when I say to people oh how are you enjoying this is this your first time driving yeah you kind of like that joke yeah or you say uh to tell marketers or someone you're on the phone with this is your first day and then they say at work no no no on earth when you're having trouble like making a return on the phone or something but yeah but as long as it does if you feel like the other person's going to enjoy that and not feel like the butt of a joke again happiness suffering yeah that's the scale I appreciate you doing this I know you didn't want to sure you don't love being on podcasts no I actually do I was just not with me no I was nervous what was your fear did you think I was going to try to get you to admit something?

[1557] you didn't want to admit or I thought well because I came in with a little fear I think didn't you because I feel stupid around you a lot because um you're more book smart than I am I'm a lot more emotionally intelligent than you are but um it takes a while to uncover that emotional intelligence and I thought I don't know I thought um that I would ask me a lot about my life and I wouldn't have answers that measured up to what you were trying to get and truthfully it's because I want to please you I wanted you to have a good podcast and I didn't know if I could do it but luckily we started right off the bat by bickering about something very sincere and that that you know you had a good idea the other day we got in a good size fight and then we worked it out and I said that should have been the podcast yeah yeah we should I'll just start recording when we're fighting at home should we start broadcasting yeah that's more helpful because like watching us roller skate at moonlight roller rink probably doesn't help anybody doesn't help your relationship like you know anyone go buy a ticket and go roller skating but figuring out how to you know, apologize.

[1558] Could help people.

[1559] And be vulnerable, maybe.

[1560] Maybe we should do that.

[1561] Yeah, I doubt this did it, but it's still worth it.

[1562] Well, hopefully it was entertaining.

[1563] Yeah, I'm going to have you on every other week.

[1564] Okay.

[1565] Because you're drastically more popular than me and it will really help.

[1566] Okay.

[1567] But I need to go to Michael's tomorrow.

[1568] Let's get you over to Mike.

[1569] Let's stop this and get you over to Michael's right now.

[1570] All right.

[1571] I love you.

[1572] Stay tuned if you'd like to hear my good friend and producer Monica Padman point out the many errors in the podcast you just heard.

[1573] We've all been there.

[1574] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[1575] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[1576] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[1577] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[1578] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[1579] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[1580] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[1581] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[1582] Hi, Monica.

[1583] Hi.

[1584] Did I make a lot of erroneous claims?

[1585] You did.

[1586] I really didn't think I had, to be honest.

[1587] I was like, oh, that was pretty clean.

[1588] Well, I'm usually way more out on a limb, I think.

[1589] Well, we'll see.

[1590] Well, as you said in your introduction, this Kristen Bell episode is the first one.

[1591] Yes.

[1592] So I really, I really knit picks.

[1593] Okay, you're going to take me to task.

[1594] Well, yeah, so I don't know if all of this is really relevant.

[1595] or important to hear but we'll try you know okay so at the beginning yeah you guys have a discussion about yarn stores uh -huh and michaels michael's but you you said the best place to go for yarn is McDonald's or Taco Bell okay right right and actually the best place you don't think that that red is an obvious joke no no okay you think a lot of people got in their cars and raced to Taco Bell to get yarn.

[1596] It seemed really sincere.

[1597] I think Taco Bell would appreciate a clarification.

[1598] Okay, thank you.

[1599] The best place to buy yarn in Los Angeles is the knitting tree.

[1600] Okay.

[1601] Not a sponsor.

[1602] Let's just add.

[1603] The knitting tree, LA.

[1604] That's right.

[1605] The little knittery.

[1606] Okay.

[1607] In Los Felas.

[1608] Great.

[1609] Or gather downtown L .A. Okay.

[1610] There's three good yarn places, none of which are Taco Bell or McDonald's or Michaels.

[1611] I'll say that.

[1612] Okay, great.

[1613] I hope that drives a ton of yarn business to those folks because they sound small mom and poppy, don't they?

[1614] And they all use knitting.

[1615] Well, no, the third didn't.

[1616] No. What else they do?

[1617] The gathering.

[1618] Okay.

[1619] Okay.

[1620] You also labeled this very room we're in an attic, which I like that you call it that, but this is not an attic.

[1621] This is a converted attic.

[1622] I will argue to the death.

[1623] This is an attic space?

[1624] Yes.

[1625] this was not designed to look at look across the driveway at the regular house you see the same pitch and eve of the the roof line that's just all attic up there that's exactly what this was built to just match the roof line of the house and it's just all addicts so someone converted this built this on top of the garage specifically as an extra absolutely now I bet you this was converted into this room in the 70s not 1920 we'd have to dig into the historical records well it might have been built after well I I'm saying that this was just an empty attic that then was converted into this room.

[1626] I'm going to have to ask James.

[1627] We need a third segment where I correct your corrections.

[1628] That's probably true.

[1629] What else?

[1630] It's not an attic.

[1631] We're going to have to.

[1632] I didn't do something I was supposed to do.

[1633] Can we pause real quick?

[1634] Are you allowed to pause?

[1635] Because I wanted to bring a tape measure.

[1636] You don't have one here, do you?

[1637] You know, I've had one here.

[1638] I know.

[1639] for, yeah, and Lincoln took it.

[1640] Yeah, you wanted to talk about how far.

[1641] We could with my feet.

[1642] We could do it with my feet.

[1643] They're exactly 12 inches.

[1644] Hold on.

[1645] Kristen was sitting there.

[1646] She was sitting right here.

[1647] One, two, three, four, six.

[1648] Yeah, I feel.

[1649] 15 feet.

[1650] What did I say?

[1651] You guys just said a bunch of random numbers.

[1652] You were just shouting answering.

[1653] No, you didn't.

[1654] I'll go back and listen and double check that.

[1655] I'm pretty sure you did not.

[1656] Well, you could just simply state you've measured it and it was 15 feet.

[1657] The correct measurement is 15 feet.

[1658] From Kristen to the commode.

[1659] From Kristen to the toilet.

[1660] And you can see it from where she's sitting.

[1661] Okay.

[1662] Okay.

[1663] And here we go.

[1664] Here's another way you were wrong.

[1665] Okay.

[1666] I wish we had, okay.

[1667] The, this one's a weird one because you didn't, you guys just had a lot of interpersonal things that were kind of.

[1668] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1669] Okay.

[1670] And you're in a unique position to know these because you're our best friend and have been for years.

[1671] And I know.

[1672] You might be the objective outsider.

[1673] Yeah.

[1674] Okay, well, this isn't really correction, but I did want to side with someone.

[1675] No. Well, that was happening a lot.

[1676] throughout the my listen um the breast augmentation yeah you are of course right that you can you can get that procedure done through your belly button or armpit yeah um and the the the uh arm pit one is intramuscular no it's called trans auxiliary endoscopic breast augmentation That sounds expensive.

[1677] Uh -huh, sure does.

[1678] And the belly, navel is called transambylical breast augmentation.

[1679] Oh, great.

[1680] So if you're going to go and get your breast augmented, just know that that's what you need to be requesting specifically.

[1681] Tuba.

[1682] Yeah, specifically.

[1683] No scars with that one.

[1684] I had a little correction for Kristen.

[1685] Oh, great.

[1686] Yeah, yeah.

[1687] Let's light her up.

[1688] I don't normally, I don't think I'm going to normally do that.

[1689] But in this case, I will because I feel comfortable doing that with her.

[1690] Her memory is terrible.

[1691] Yeah.

[1692] So I had to check some stuff.

[1693] I checked some stuff with her mom.

[1694] Oh, wow.

[1695] You really went for it.

[1696] I did.

[1697] So again, this is just another human who was experiencing this at the same time.

[1698] I couldn't like look it up on the internet.

[1699] So I don't know for sure.

[1700] But Lori, Kristen's mom, said that Kristen was 13.

[1701] when she started playing music, which is much later than Kristen recalls it.

[1702] Yeah, considerably, because I think she said like eight years old or something.

[1703] Yeah, so five years off at a period where five years represents half of your life.

[1704] So she's 100 % off.

[1705] She's about to be in high school when she started, which to me just makes me even, it's even more gross because then she's that good and she started pretty late.

[1706] Yeah, that makes her more of a prodigy.

[1707] Yeah, exactly.

[1708] Exactly.

[1709] I tried to get the name of the Shell Silverstein poem, but she did not have that information for me. Okay.

[1710] Oh, okay.

[1711] So acromegaly, I wanted you to tell people what that is because I don't think everyone knows what that is.

[1712] So it is, in general, it's if you have a tumor on your pituitary gland and the pressure on your pituitary gland causes your gland.

[1713] to make way more HGH than it should in your body continues to grow and grow and grow after puberty or even excessively pre -puberty and a very famous person with acromegaly is Tony Robbins who we like in worship yeah did you read about it was that all right yeah okay great well I didn't and it's kind of you you can kind of uh visually uh identify it be because generally that you have a really big mandible right your your jaw your jaw bone and um you You know, Andre the Giant famously had acromegalate.

[1714] And so did the tallest man in the world, his name's like, oh shit, you're going to have to look out.

[1715] I'm going to have to fact check.

[1716] Anyways, Waldo Emerson or something.

[1717] Is the tallest man in the world?

[1718] Yeah, was the tallest man in the world.

[1719] You know, from my childhood, Guinness, book of world records.

[1720] And he had it.

[1721] Yeah, you got very severe.

[1722] He was maybe over eight feet tall.

[1723] You mean Robert Pershing Wadlow?

[1724] Yeah, Wadlow.

[1725] There we go.

[1726] I said Waldo.

[1727] Yeah, Robert Pershing.

[1728] I don't even know the bad name.

[1729] Robert Pershing.

[1730] And was he, was he eight feet something?

[1731] He was.

[1732] Eight foot two?

[1733] Eight foot 11.

[1734] Holy fuck.

[1735] That's nine feet tall.

[1736] That's crazy.

[1737] Wow.

[1738] Are you sure Donny Robbins has it?

[1739] Yes, because I thought he looked like he had it.

[1740] And then when we were watching the documentary, I looked up.

[1741] I, Google, does Tony Robbins have acromegaly and he does?

[1742] And he opted, at least in the thing I read online, to not have the procedure to remove that tumor from a pituitary gland.

[1743] Wow.

[1744] Yeah, because it wasn't, he did not, oh, now I'm remembering, he didn't have something that's basically called organ megalate, which is his organs hadn't gotten huge.

[1745] That's where it becomes fatal, yes, or pathological.

[1746] Interesting.

[1747] great um great okay um i also this is just me because i'm not a religious person yeah and i'm not smart enough to know this but um a parochial school is a church based school i mean that was kind of clear in the way she was talking but i don't know if everyone knows what a parochial school is right a non -secular school yeah right yep great um i just want to throw in um really quick just to give you some credentials that you did get a 4 .0 through all of high school.

[1748] Thank you.

[1749] Even a little higher because you had eight E classes.

[1750] College, college, not high school.

[1751] Oh, not high school.

[1752] But you graduated college University of Georgia with a 4 .0.

[1753] Ish.

[1754] Oh, boy.

[1755] Not quite.

[1756] I didn't, hey, I never said that.

[1757] I said I got one B in college.

[1758] Oh, okay.

[1759] And a smattering of C's and Ds.

[1760] And it was, and some, I failed a couple of classes.

[1761] So all A is in one B. That's really important.

[1762] It was a 89 .8 and it was not rounded up.

[1763] And I got a hunch that was because of your personality Probably.

[1764] I really went in and begged.

[1765] Oh, you did.

[1766] Oh, my God.

[1767] Oh, my God.

[1768] I was shameless.

[1769] I was very upset.

[1770] Because look, otherwise you could have said 4 .0 and it would have been correct.

[1771] What else?

[1772] Let's see.

[1773] Oh, you, Kristen said she's a secret socialist.

[1774] And I want it to be very clear that she's not a socialist.

[1775] Although she thinks she is.

[1776] She's not.

[1777] No, she's not a socialist, but she believe she is so she is correct in that she believes she is.

[1778] But I don't want.

[1779] I don't want people to think that because it did come out of her mouth and I know that that not to be true.

[1780] Yeah, that's not true.

[1781] Okay.

[1782] I think what she really means is that she'd like to see a really nice safety net and social services provided for low income people.

[1783] I don't think she really means that she wants the state to own many of the industries.

[1784] She's a liberal person who wants equality for everyone.

[1785] But, yeah, not state one.

[1786] Let's see, what else?

[1787] Oh, you said the podcast was brought to you by Michaels and it's not.

[1788] Yes, that was a joke.

[1789] Yeah, let's be clear.

[1790] When we're talking about ads, I think we've got to be really clear.

[1791] Okay, okay.

[1792] Not yet brought to you by Michael.

[1793] brought to you by Michael's.

[1794] You said Homo sapiens have been here for 75 ,000 years.

[1795] No, I didn't.

[1796] Yes, you did.

[1797] No, I would have never said that.

[1798] I would have never.

[1799] Yes, you did.

[1800] No, I'm an anthropology major.

[1801] I know they've been here for 150 ,000 years.

[1802] 200.

[1803] Well, that's.

[1804] According to the Smithsonian website.

[1805] They don't know fucking dick.

[1806] They know everything.

[1807] Yes, as I was saying, when I went to college and majored in anthro, they did say, they even said 250 ,000 years.

[1808] But now currently, like Yoval, who just wrote Sapiens, is saying like 175 or something.

[1809] Well, there's just a lot of debate about what it was its own species, like clearly defined, couldn't have had a fertile progeny with a previous hominid.

[1810] Right.

[1811] That's hard to pinpoint.

[1812] Yeah.

[1813] Around 200 ,000, but not 75 ,000.

[1814] And you did say that.

[1815] I did not.

[1816] I'll bet you right now a million fucking dollars.

[1817] There's no way I said that that we have.

[1818] have been here for $75 ,000.

[1819] That's okay.

[1820] We can do this later.

[1821] I'll have to go back and listen.

[1822] Maybe I'm wrong.

[1823] I hope I'm not.

[1824] Take your time finding this one.

[1825] Sorry.

[1826] This is going to require more editing than anything.

[1827] You said it really is.

[1828] There's a lot of stuff here.

[1829] Let's do bullet points.

[1830] You said it's bullet pointed.

[1831] Okay.

[1832] You said it takes 30 or 40 people to get Kristen ready.

[1833] Okay.

[1834] And that's wrong.

[1835] That was an exaggeration.

[1836] I was, yeah, again, I thought I was.

[1837] Some people will believe that.

[1838] Very clearly joking.

[1839] People don't know how many people it takes.

[1840] Right.

[1841] Because it does take a lot of people.

[1842] It takes, it takes three people in truth.

[1843] It can be more, but it takes three.

[1844] It takes a hair, a makeup, and a, in the stylist.

[1845] And a few extras.

[1846] Sometimes those people have assistance.

[1847] Yeah.

[1848] Sometimes a guy brings jewelry over with like handcuffs around his belt.

[1849] Yeah.

[1850] That's exciting when that happens.

[1851] Yeah.

[1852] And then I'm there sometimes.

[1853] Yes, you're...

[1854] I'm just lingering.

[1855] Okay, so at the end, you discuss the Kinsey scale a little bit.

[1856] Oh, right.

[1857] And to be honest, I felt a little bit like I might have been talking out of my ass.

[1858] Okay.

[1859] That there is even a scale.

[1860] No, there is.

[1861] There is.

[1862] Okay, good.

[1863] And I have it here.

[1864] So I'm going to read it to you, okay?

[1865] Oh, great.

[1866] It's zero to six, the scale.

[1867] Oh, weird.

[1868] Uh -huh.

[1869] Why not just do 10?

[1870] Don't metric.

[1871] You'll see.

[1872] There's only so many things that can happen.

[1873] zero exclusively heterosexual one predominantly heterosexual only incidentally homosexual two predominantly heterosexual sexual but more incidentally homosexual okay these are very vague three equally heterosexual and homosexual well that's a three that's what we would call bisexual correct it's just the three middle of the road right so I'm not high on the.

[1874] No, you're not.

[1875] And you said you were high.

[1876] I said it was like a nine or whatever.

[1877] You said you were the highest number before it's just liking dicks.

[1878] Yeah.

[1879] So I'm a two.

[1880] Which is a six.

[1881] And you're a two because three is bisexual.

[1882] You like other men's penis.

[1883] No, you're not a two.

[1884] You're a one.

[1885] You're like a point five.

[1886] No. Yeah.

[1887] You are not.

[1888] Well, I'm hugging and kissing men.

[1889] That's what is that?

[1890] Incidentally.

[1891] Incidentally.

[1892] That's not more than incidentally.

[1893] Two is more than incidentally.

[1894] Yeah.

[1895] I guess I choose to kiss guys on the lips, you know, longer than most.

[1896] No, who?

[1897] I kiss Tom Hanson on the lips every time I see him.

[1898] You do?

[1899] Yeah, I kiss, oh, on New Year's Eve, I kiss Ben Hart on the lips.

[1900] Okay.

[1901] Yeah, I do a lot of kissing on the lips with other men.

[1902] I think that would qualify as incidental.

[1903] Okay.

[1904] You're not, it's not more than incidental.

[1905] More than incidental, okay.

[1906] No, I think incidental is like, You went to hug a man and then you both got confused and you kissed.

[1907] That's accidental.

[1908] That's different.

[1909] Right.

[1910] This is not that.

[1911] No, I'm like, I have, I have, it's, it's premeditated kissing, which I feel like is more than incidental.

[1912] But anyways.

[1913] Okay, you're a one.

[1914] Okay, that's a bummer.

[1915] Yeah, I really like.

[1916] I just wanted to.

[1917] Thank you.

[1918] Bust your balls on that.

[1919] Thank you.

[1920] I think that's it for Kristen.

[1921] Yeah, I didn't make a ton of claims.

[1922] No. And then you and I will have a post, post -mortem.

[1923] Yeah.

[1924] And we'll talk about the $75 ,000 because I think you're wrong.

[1925] I'm.

[1926] But I love you.

[1927] And thank you for helping me keep this on the up enough above board.

[1928] Yeah.

[1929] We got to.

[1930] I look forward to your next.

[1931] We got to fight the fake news.

[1932] We do.

[1933] That's right.

[1934] We're doing our part.

[1935] Follow armchair expert on the Wondry app, Amazon music, or wherever you get your podcast.

[1936] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[1937] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.

[1938] What's up, guys?

[1939] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[1940] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[1941] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[1942] And I don't mean just friends.

[1943] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list.

[1944] goes on so follow watch and listen to baby this is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast