The History of WWII Podcast XX
[0] Welcome to True Spies, the podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.
[1] Suddenly out of the dark, it's a bit in love.
[2] You'll meet the people who live life undercover.
[3] What do they know?
[4] What are their skills?
[5] And what would you do in their position?
[6] Vengeance felt good seeing these.
[7] People paid for what they'd done, felt righteous.
[8] True Spies, from Spyscape Studios, wherever you get your podcasts.
[9] This episode is brought to you by Audible.
[10] But soon, I will have other sponsors, so you won't have to hear me say that all the time.
[11] But Audible is awesome.
[12] They have thousands of books to choose from.
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[17] This time, I would like to recommend an oldie, but a goodie.
[18] It's called The Last Lion, Winston Spencer Churchill, Volume 1, Visions of Glory, 1874 -1932, by William Manchester.
[19] Churchill was perhaps the most important political figure of the 20th century.
[20] His great oratory and leadership during the Second World War were only a part of his huge breadth of experience and achievement.
[21] Studying his life is a fascinating way to imbibe the history of his era and gain insight into key events that shaped our time.
[22] In political office at the end of World War I, Churchill foresaw the folly of Versailles and feared what a crippled Germany would do to the balance of power.
[23] In his years in the political wilderness, from 1931 to 1939, he alone, of all British public men, constantly raised his voice against Hitler and his appeasers.
[24] For 50 years, he was constantly involved in, and usually at the center of, the most important events of his age.
[25] Or instead of saying all this, I can simply say, in my view, the subject is awesome, the times were eventful, and the writer, William Manchester, is one of the best.
[26] Trust me, you want this book.
[27] And at 41 hours long, it will keep you busy until I get a few more episodes out.
[28] I highly recommend it.
[29] Hello.
[30] I thank you for listening to A History of World War II.
[31] Episode 33, Loyalties.
[32] Renaud's Republic was out.
[33] and Pétain's regime was now in control of France.
[34] For those who had maneuvered to obtain for Pétain the top spot, their time had come.
[35] Most were known and rewarded.
[36] Others, not exposed until after the war, during the tribunals, still found themselves given positions of power.
[37] In the last hours of June 16th, British Ambassador Campbell and General Spears, defeated and discouraged by Renaud's resignation, still had to think of tomorrow and Great Britain.
[38] Searching the Hotel de Ville and the Chateaus, they finally found the former premier, relaxed and talking to his mistress and her friend.
[39] But when asked if he would leave France and head a French resistance movement, he said no. He was convinced he would soon be asked to form another cabinet when Pétain fell.
[40] But what he didn't consider was that regimes don't fall.
[41] They have to be conquered.
[42] To the two British representatives, the former premier was still living in that other world.
[43] he seemed to reside in for the last few weeks.
[44] Then they moved on and asked Mandel, the former stalwart minister of the interior, the same question, and he said no as well, but for different reasons.
[45] He argued as a Jew it would look like he was running away, but that pride in being a Frenchman and of what others thought of his kind would turn out to be his undoing.
[46] Earlier that night, Charles de Gaulle had returned.
[47] arriving in a special plane loaned to him by Churchill.
[48] He made it back by 9 .30 p .m., only to be present when Renault came out of Le Bras' office and announced his resignation.
[49] De Gaulle, ever the realist, knew this meant France would capitulate, guessing that his enemy, Vegard, would play a prominent role in Pétain's government.
[50] He was right.
[51] Vegard became Minister of Defense.
[52] De Gaulle thought it would be best to lay low that night and head back to Britain the next day.
[53] He was determined to organize a resistance for those of his countrymen who still wanted to resist.
[54] He made contact with General Spears at night and arranged to meet him tomorrow morning.
[55] Spears had called Churchill and asked about bringing de Gaulle out.
[56] In truth, Churchill had hoped a former cabinet member or a well -known deputy of one of the chambers would agree to come to London and become a rallying point for any French who were against Béton and his solution to France's problem.
[57] But they could find no one.
[58] So General de Gaulle, if that was still his rank, the most junior of all brigadier generals, little known outside military circles, and with no political following whatsoever, seemed their only choice.
[59] Churchill told Spears to bring him to London.
[60] Before hiding for the night in a second -rate hotel, de Gaulle went to see Renault and told him what he was going to do.
[61] This was not the time to harangue the former premier.
[62] De Gaulle simply told his former colleague he was off to London.
[63] but he had literally nothing in his pockets.
[64] Renault gave him the last 100 ,000 francs he had.
[65] Of course, it was not worth much with the government changing hands and the country losing a war, but it was a start and a touching gesture from this worn -out man. And although de Gaulle's name would one day become synonymous with France and French honor, he was still a man with a man's cares, and asked Renault's assistant if he would send passports to his wife and children.
[66] The assistant said yes, of course he would.
[67] De Gaulle's family would make it out, but under harrowing circumstances.
[68] Marshal Pétain, now his premier, moved with speed unseen since his younger days.
[69] One by one, hopeful, ambitious men sat down with him, talked, and in a very little time, most found themselves placed in a governmental position.
[70] General Venga sat in on all of these meetings, and when they got to the name of De Gaulle, he exploded.
[71] Ah, no, not that one.
[72] I don't get along with a character like that.
[73] De Gaulle's name was removed from a list of potential officials.
[74] His fate would be decided later.
[75] Very soon, Bataille's government was complete.
[76] Of the 17 ministers in his cabinet, 11 had been in Renault's just a few hours ago.
[77] Of course, there were changes.
[78] Chautam was named vice -premier.
[79] Badeau was promoted to foreign minister.
[80] and even though there were now two socialists in the cabinet, there was no doubt it would be dominated by the military.
[81] Patin had his own vote, and the vote of three grateful generals and one admiral.
[82] Darlan kept his post, and received another.
[83] This new cabinet met for the first time in the last hours of June 16th, and worked for 30 minutes.
[84] The first order of business was for their country and countrymen.
[85] A text was written for the newspapers to be printed tomorrow about the change in government.
[86] That done, the issue that obviously concerned everyone was the war, or rather, the end of the war.
[87] Pétain was quoted in the newspaper release, quote, The government has been formed.
[88] Its essential task, without losing time, too much time has been lost already, is to ask the German government under what conditions it will stop hostilities, unquote.
[89] All the ministers agreed unanimously with this statement.
[90] Now that Renault was gone and the question was ending the war with Germany, Pétain and his followers had moved with alacrity.
[91] It was now time to manifest their desire for peace.
[92] But at what price?
[93] They didn't ask themselves.
[94] That would be for later.
[95] The cabinet adjourned in the small hours of June 17th, and it was time for the new foreign minister to get to work.
[96] Baudot immediately called on the Spanish ambassador.
[97] José Félix de La Cuerca was not surprised at getting this call so late.
[98] He and other Spanish officials had been talking to certain French politicians and officers for weeks about France's future.
[99] Soon La Cuerca was sitting across from Badeau's desk.
[100] The Spanish official looked across the desk, expectant but confident.
[101] Not only was he ready to help the new government with its negotiations, but he had already established a phone connection with Madrid.
[102] that would then relay any information needed to Berlin.
[103] Not to be outdone, Badeau had his note ready for the ambassador.
[104] La Guarica took it and read it.
[105] Quote, The French government of Marshal Breton requests the Spanish government to act as rapidly as possible as intermediary with the German government, with a view to the sensation of hostilities and the settlement of conditions for peace.
[106] The French government hopes that the German government, as soon as it takes note of this request, will give its Air Force orders to stop bombing the cities.
[107] End quote.
[108] Finished reading, the Spanish ambassador then asked, Do you mean to speak of the conditions for an armistice, or for a peace, or for both?
[109] And according to La Quetica, the foreign minister said, An armistice is always a temporary expedient.
[110] The government would also like to know the conditions for peace.
[111] The Spaniard's version of this is given because Badeau would spend the rest of his days denying asking for peace, but only asking for an armistice.
[112] But later on that same day, June 17th, Badeau would ask a Vatican representative to ask for peace conditions from Germany, and then broadcast his request for peace conditions on the radio.
[113] La Cuetica rushed away, eager to give the message to Madrid.
[114] The distinction between the two requests is important diplomatically, and therefore internationally.
[115] An armistice says, we are beaten in the field, let's negotiate.
[116] You get some land, some money, we get the shame of losing, but then it's over.
[117] We're equals.
[118] Peace talks say something entirely different.
[119] We give up, you win completely, we cannot negotiate as equals, and we throw ourselves on your mercy.
[120] Of course, Nazi Germany was not known for its mercy, but the French viewed diplomacy like it did battle, in terms of the last war.
[121] And to make it more complex, how the war of France ended would affect the relationships between unoccupied France to Germany, occupied France with unoccupied France, and finally, unoccupied France with the rest of the world.
[122] Everyone was thinking long -term, certainly not the thousand years that Hitler boasted of, but certainly of many years to come.
[123] No one, except maybe Churchill and Roosevelt, could imagine this new world order would come crashing down in a few years' time.
[124] But that's what makes the government of Pétain's view and actions truly deplorable and criminal.
[125] They assumed this was the price for peace, and they were willing to decide for the entire country to pay it.
[126] But all those involved would pay an individual price, one way or another, one day.
[127] After La Quetica left, the British ambassador Campbell was summoned to Badeau's office.
[128] Campbell was understandably upset, angry.
[129] and wore a face of stone.
[130] Only with hindsight would he realize that his fatigue and emotional state clouded his judgment.
[131] On this early morning of June 17th, the ambassador could only see the situation through British eyes, and the view was uninspiring.
[132] France, Britain's ally and possessor of Europe's largest army, was a hair's breadth away from being out of the war.
[133] Britain, with practically no army, certainly not an equipped one, was alone.
[134] Against a Nazi Germany, that had not yet been defeated.
[135] Badeau picked up on the anger right away and tried an emotional appeal with this man representing his former ally.
[136] Appearing sad, he said France expressed its hopes that Britain would understand the situation France was in and be understanding.
[137] Campbell said nothing.
[138] Badeau tried again.
[139] He promised that France will never give away the French fleet and certainly keep Britain informed of the negotiation process.
[140] This was met with more silence.
[141] Campbell, as an experienced diplomat, had learned the basics of never saying too much or give too much away.
[142] After all, a diplomat only represents someone else who has the power to decide.
[143] But Campbell's anger affected him that day, and he enjoyed too much making Badeau uncomfortable.
[144] But if he could have been more objective, he would have remembered the larger issues and realized the game was not over.
[145] Not yet.
[146] Watching the new foreign minister squirm, Campbell forgot to bring up the two telegrams from London, preceding the joint British -Franco Union proposal.
[147] The British position had been, you can talk to Germany, like you're doing now, but the deal is that you send your fleet to British ports or somewhere neutral.
[148] Enjoying Bordeaux's guilt was nice, but he should have used it to get some kind of agreement out of the French about their ships.
[149] But he did not.
[150] He listened silently.
[151] and then left.
[152] Then, the American diplomat, Anthony J. Biddle, was ushered into Badeau's office, about 2 a .m. It should have been the American ambassador to France, William Bullitt, coming to see the new foreign minister, but he had decided to stay in Paris after the government left.
[153] Bullitt was fluent in French and strongly pro -France.
[154] He believed it was his duty to stay in Paris and await the Germans.
[155] He wanted to make sure no harm came to the thousands of Americans in the city, or the city itself.
[156] It's regrettable that he did not go to Bordeaux, as he was well -liked, respected, and had influence with the upper echelons of French society and government.
[157] This part of French history may have been decidedly different if he had followed the government.
[158] But he did not.
[159] So Biddle was with Bordeaux, acting as Roosevelt's ear.
[160] With his country not in the war, Biddle listened with more sympathy than the previous visitor and appeared to understand France's unique situation.
[161] But then, he left the meeting and sent a telegram home saying, quote, The Admiral's new governmental associates, meaning Darlan, hardly inspire complete confidence that the French fleet will remain a bulwark against Nazi aggression.
[162] It seems the Americans weren't about to be fooled either.
[163] General Spears met with de Gaulle at the latter's hotel about 7 .30 a .m. that morning of June 17th.
[164] But de Gaulle wasn't traveling light.
[165] His luggage filled up every available space in Spears' embassy car.
[166] To Spears' way of thinking, this was not the way to cruise the streets of Bordeaux unnoticed.
[167] But de Gaulle's aide, Lieutenant Corsell, and Spears' chauffeur made the luggage fit.
[168] De Gaulle told Spears he felt a cover story was needed, so he had the car go to the temporary French headquarters.
[169] Spinning his web of deception, De Gaulle made several appointments for later on that day, and then they left.
[170] During all this, Spears tried to appear calm, but just knew the French military would arrest London's last choice to lead any free French in the future.
[171] The roads were still a maelstrom of chaos, but they finally made it to the airfield.
[172] They gained entrance with no trouble, breathed a sigh of relief, but then saw their real obstacle.
[173] Planes were parked all over the place.
[174] De Gaulle couldn't help but wonder why France consistently asked the British for more fighters, when they clearly had more in reserve themselves.
[175] But, getting his mind back to his immediate problem, there simply did not seem to be enough room for them to take off.
[176] Frantic searching finally turned out their small British plane among the rows.
[177] Their pilot, after some intense searching on his own, eventually found enough room to take off.
[178] So, it was time to begin the ruse.
[179] The plan was for de Gaulle to pretend to walk spears to his plane, shake hands, and then watch as the plane departed, but then jump in himself as the plane started moving.
[180] They all then prayed to their personal god, that no one noticed that all of de Gaulle's luggage was being put on the plane as well as Spears.
[181] Soon the luggage was tied down and the engine was started.
[182] Spears and de Gaulle shook hands and the British general climbed into the plane.
[183] But, as it started moving forward, de Gaulle and his aide Corsel jumped aboard.
[184] De Gaulle, large and heavy, had to be pulled in by Spears, who was the opposite, but they managed.
[185] Corsel, being much younger, managed by himself.
[186] The chauffeur and others in the area gaped in astonishment as the plane took off.
[187] Churchill would later say, In this small plane, the honor of France was being carried by one man. Later, de Gaulle would write that while in the air and passing over the French coast and English Channel, he was thinking of his France.
[188] He wrote, At a moment when the problem was posed, on which depended all of the present and all of the future of France, the Parliament did not sit.
[189] the government showed itself incapable of taking a drastic solution.
[190] The President of the Republic abstained from raising his voice even in a cabinet meeting to express the superior interests of the country.
[191] This collapse of the state was at the bottom of the national drama.
[192] At the first flash of lightning, the regime, in its terrible infirmity, had no measure of and no rapport with the defense, the honor, the independence of France.
[193] Not long after noon, the plane landed and de Gaulle was taken to see Churchill.
[194] It was decided that this new representative of a free France would give a general broadcast to French people the next day.
[195] His job was to gather and organize those French citizens who would continue to fight against the Germans and turn their back on the new French government.
[196] But for the first time ever, this overly confident man questioned himself.
[197] Welcome to True Spies.
[198] The podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.
[199] Suddenly out of the dark it's appeared in Laban.
[200] You'll meet the people who live life undercover.
[201] What do they know?
[202] What are their skills?
[203] And what would you do in their position?
[204] Vengeance felt good.
[205] Seeing these people pay for what they'd done felt righteous.
[206] True Spies from Spyscape Studios.
[207] Wherever you get your podcasts.
[208] The U .S. government was getting as nervous as London about the destiny of the powerful French fleet.
[209] So later that day, Roosevelt and Foreign Secretary Cordell Hull decided to make their thoughts clear to the Bordeaux government.
[210] Churchill added his might to these thoughts as well.
[211] On that same day of June 17th, he sent a telegram to Pétain and Van Gogh.
[212] It read, I wish to repeat to you my profound conviction that the illustrious Marshal Pétain, and the famous General Vegard will not injure their ally by delivering over to the enemy the fine French fleet.
[213] Such an act would scarify their names for a thousand years of history.
[214] Yet this result may easily come by frittering away those few precious hours when the fleet can be sailed to British or American ports, carrying with it the hope and the honor of France.
[215] In other words, While the new French government was wasting time trying to figure out what Germany was doing, they were rushing ahead with their invasion and may end up capturing the port cities and then the ships themselves.
[216] Then all discussion and negotiation would be mute.
[217] Still feeling that the new government in Bordeaux was not feeling Britain's urgency, Churchill sent two admirals and a cabinet member to them for a face -to -face, and to see if anyone wanted to come back to London with them.
[218] but there were no takers.
[219] And even though this telegram was more carrot than stick, Churchill certainly felt like using a stick on the French high command.
[220] Pétain and Végan had already broken one promise to the British.
[221] Back on the 13th, the French government, then headed by Renault, promised to deliver to Britain about 400 German prisoners who were pilots.
[222] The last thing the British needed were 400 more trained pilots trying to shoot down their men.
[223] or bomb their ships.
[224] But soon they were on their way back to Germany, and soon after that would be doing their part during the Battle of Britain.
[225] So a plea for an armistice and peace was sent out to Germany.
[226] But before the aggressors could reply, Pétain took the next step of surrendering anyway.
[227] At 12 .30 p .m. on June 17th, Pétain addressed his countrymen via radio.
[228] He told them, I have made a gift of my person to France.
[229] He then told them of the armistice request, but saved the main reason for his address for last.
[230] With a heavy heart, I tell you today that it is necessary to stop the fighting.
[231] It didn't take long for Patan's people to realize the marshal had just made a huge mistake.
[232] His idea could have or should have been better explained.
[233] If what he meant wasn't for his men to literally throw away their weapons in delightful relief.
[234] for that is exactly what they did.
[235] Vegard conceded later, they took it literally.
[236] By mid -afternoon, General Georges was complaining to Vegard that the broadcast broke the back of what French resistance remained.
[237] Men surrendered, returned to barracks, and stacked their arms in ditches.
[238] Even the 18th military district at Bordeaux followed suit, and its men were responsible for protecting the new government.
[239] Officers who did not disarm near the temporary capital were threatened with court -martial.
[240] The Germans, for their part, couldn't believe their luck.
[241] They vigorously helped spread this announcement with leaflets, loudspeakers, and replayed the radio message every few minutes in Paris and throughout the country.
[242] Vegard desperately issued orders throughout the day to keep fighting.
[243] The armistice wasn't signed yet, but all in vain.
[244] Darlan sent the same message.
[245] but had the same results.
[246] Badeau tried twice to what we would today call spin the marshal's radio message.
[247] The ceasefire statement, because that's what everyone considered it, had ended the struggle as far as the French army and people were concerned.
[248] The foreign minister anxiously sought to fix the careless phrasing, again, if that's what it was.
[249] The military situation throughout the day was worsening.
[250] Vegard wanted a clarification and wanted it now.
[251] This turn of events did not suit his plans to have a force at his disposal to keep the people in line when the conflict ended.
[252] But as the foreign minister, Badeau had the responsibility to fix this.
[253] He first tried with a correction that was issued to the press.
[254] It tried to explain that the marshal had not said it was necessary to stop fighting, but that it was necessary to try to stop the fighting.
[255] When that fell flat...
[256] He tried again with his own radio address that night at 9 .30 p .m. But like his conversations with the British and U .S. ambassadors, it was more emotion than substance.
[257] He confessed that it was true the government asked for conditions of peace, but the French army was still heroically fighting without tanks, guns, and planes, and had been abandoned by its allies.
[258] Quote, Our military chiefs are the very incarnation of France's tradition and soul.
[259] Unquote.
[260] He finished by saying, France has not abandoned the struggle, nor laid down its arms.
[261] It is not ready, and will never be ready, to accept dishonorable terms, to abandon the spiritual freedom of its people, to betray the soul of France.
[262] Diplomatically, it didn't help that Badeau was fencing with the British earlier that day.
[263] Of course, the two sides disagree on what happened, or what was said.
[264] The British version is that Campbell gave a copy of the two telegrams to Badeau and was in fact reinstating them as the joint union proposal did not go forward.
[265] The French were expected to honor them.
[266] Treat with the Germans fine, but get your ships moving to a British or neutral ports now.
[267] And finally, Campbell told London that Badeau said that the decision to do that had been made that very day.
[268] The cabinet just had to officially vote on it.
[269] The French version has too many holes in it to make it worth repeating here.
[270] But just to give a sense of the revisionist history that took place after the war, Bordeaux said that this was the first time he heard or saw the two telegrams.
[271] But surely, as the former undersecretary in the foreign office, that's impossible.
[272] He was there in Bordeaux when Renault fell.
[273] But what the French should have taken away from this meeting was the basic premise that the British wanted the question, The French fleet settled now.
[274] In fact, Admiral Cunningham, commander of the British Mediterranean fleet, got the following message from London.
[275] It read, If France concludes a separate peace, every effort must be employed to see that the French fleet passes under our authority, or, if not, to sink it.
[276] Was this move necessary?
[277] Militarily, yes.
[278] And that's all that mattered.
[279] The British could not be understanding or forgiving.
[280] when their lives and their way of life stood in the balance.
[281] But there would be tragic consequences, as when any two allies have to turn away from each other.
[282] That same day, the U .S. showed its displeasure and growing distrust of the Pataille regime.
[283] Early that morning, the U .S. government froze all French assets in the United States.
[284] Roosevelt guessed he may need a bargaining chip.
[285] and as the former Undersecretary of the U .S. Navy, knew that if Britain got the French fleet, the British, if pushed, could use it to help stop any German invasion.
[286] But if Germany got it, those ships combined with the German and Italian navies would go a long way to challenging the British and the U .S. in the Atlantic.
[287] The U .S. had the bulk of their fleet in the Pacific due to the growing threats from Japan.
[288] And while it's true that the industrial capacity of the U .S. would one day have 50 aircraft carriers operating by 1945, that was a long way away.
[289] At 5 p .m. on June 17th, Roosevelt sent his telegram to Bordeaux.
[290] It was crafted by Secretary of State Cordell Hull, and by his own words, was the strongest worded note he ever wrote.
[291] Biddle delivered it, and in part it read, Before concluding, any armistice failed to see that the fleet is kept out of the hands of her opponents.
[292] It will fatally impair the eventual restoration of French independence.
[293] Furthermore, should the French government permit the French fleet to be surrendered to Germany, the French government will permanently lose the friendship and goodwill of the government of the United States.
[294] After reading it, Darlan and Badeau were very irritated.
[295] Badeau demanded that the last part be taken back.
[296] He then again solemnly promised the fleet would never be handed over to Germany.
[297] Biddle wrote home that the telegram had its intended effect.
[298] To his credit, during the night of June 17th, 18th, Darlan sent an order to the naval base at Brittany that any intact ships must not fall into German hands.
[299] So the 35 ,000 ton battleship Richelieu and her sister ship, Jeanne Barre, received orders to sail for Morocco, and by the next night, they had set sail.
[300] In response to all this diplomatic pressure, Badeau told the U .S. and Britain that the French fleet would be sent overseas or sunk, but it would not end up in British hands.
[301] Tension was clearly growing between the Allies.
[302] Ambassador Campbell was soon verifying this by telling London that a scuttling was the most they could hope for.
[303] The French government was quickly becoming united that it would be better to sink their ships rather than handing them over to Britain.
[304] But what they didn't or couldn't consider was that it was feasible one day that they might find themselves back in the war and obviously their navy would then be invaluable.
[305] But for now, all they could think of was how tired they were of fighting the Germans.
[306] As for the tormented French government, The only reply they got from Hitler on June 17th was that he would have to consult with his ally Mussolini before a response could be given.
[307] So Hitler, who had put much stock in his partnership with his Italian counterpart, asked him to come to Munich to discuss France.
[308] This complex but competitive relationship of support and mutual need between the two warlords confused and aggravated the German high command.
[309] They knew, just as Hitler did, that even at this stage of the war, 32 Italian divisions, after a week of fighting, had not moved the six French divisions along the Alpine Front and south along the Riviera.
[310] The German high command was already looking beyond France, and like the new French government, felt that Britain would soon be added to the Nazi list of conquered or cowed countries.
[311] So at most, had only one eye gazing across the channel.
[312] No, their growing concern...
[313] was the USSR.
[314] On June 15th, the Soviet Union used the war in the West to accuse the three small Baltic countries of being for the Allies and organizing a military collaboration with them against the Soviet Union.
[315] Lithuania was forced to allow an unspecified number of Soviet troops into their country to guard against who?
[316] The Allies?
[317] The Nazis?
[318] It really did matter.
[319] In short order, Stalin set up a puppet regime and incorporated Lithuania into the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
[320] The following day, June 16th, Latvia and Estonia joined their sister Balkan country in that process.
[321] So the German high command found themselves in the unique situation of having a potential rival moving closer to them.
[322] Hitler noticed as well, but believed he still had time to conquer or force a diplomatic settlement out of Britain.
[323] He recognized Stalin's adventures as preliminary chess moves.
[324] He himself had been playing the same game for years.
[325] And Hitler had his own plans for Stalin and his country.
[326] But they could wait.
[327] Soon, Mussolini and his foreign minister and son -in -law, Ciano, were on their way by train to Munich.
[328] Il Duce was excited, yet apprehensive.
[329] and he talked through his nervousness.
[330] Mussolini told his foreign minister that he wanted all of France divided and conquered between the Axis partners, and he wanted the French fleet.
[331] With it and Italy's combined, Mussolini could really challenge the British in the Mediterranean.
[332] He would have his new Roman Empire.
[333] But, being realistic, Mussolini confessed that he knew Hitler would make all the decisions.
[334] It had been his fight.
[335] It was his victory.
[336] and it would be his terms.
[337] Certainly Mussolini, il Duce, the great man, was an important prop on Hitler's stage, but still, just a prop.
[338] Next time, the relationship between Britain and Pétain's France shatters completely, as Churchill decides to settle the question of the French fleet himself.
[339] The results are many French casualties.
[340] Meanwhile, Pétain and his supporters learn of the harsh German terms for the armistice.
[341] and that they have no choice but to sign.
[342] And General de Gaulle will stake his claim as the head of the Free French, while the Bataillon regime will quickly turn on former colleagues and allies.
[343] Hello to everybody out there in podcast land.
[344] Greetings from Central Virginia.
[345] I just wanted to take a moment with a little postscript and thank everyone who listens to the podcast and who's written or made donations or gotten something from Audible.
[346] I really do appreciate it and it helps a lot to keep me going.
[347] I just wanted to remind everybody that I do have a page on Facebook.
[348] It's called the same as the podcast, a History of World War II podcast.
[349] If you search that, you can find it.
[350] There's a picture of the three Allied leaders together.
[351] I do little things like...
[352] This Day in History and Little Notices and anything that I see in the news or anything like that that you might find interesting.
[353] Also, I have a Twitter account.
[354] If you go to www2podcaster, you can find that as well.
[355] So I put generally the same information on both of those if you have one or the other.
[356] And also I wanted to ask if anybody out there has recommendations for Audible books.
[357] I'm doing everything I can to think of that's interesting.
[358] But again...
[359] I don't know the audience as well as I'd like to.
[360] And if you have different tastes, if you want to make recommendations, or maybe you've stumbled across something that I haven't, just send me an email, ray42harris at yahoo .com, and I'll be happy to use it for the next time.
[361] So I'm just trying to give everybody what they want.
[362] And I just wanted to end by saying...
[363] As you can tell, I've really slowed down the podcast and I'm covering it in great detail.
[364] I've gotten a couple of comments on it, mostly good.
[365] And I just wanted to get a sense of if this is okay with everyone.
[366] If I just kind of do the broad strokes, it's nothing that you haven't heard before.
[367] So this was my way of trying to do something different.
[368] So just let me know what you think and I'd really appreciate it.
[369] And again, your emails and your comments, they really motivate me to keep me going.
[370] So if you ever find yourself with a couple of minutes and you're on your computer, go to Facebook, go to Twitter, or just send me an email and just say hi, just to let me know you're out there and what you think.
[371] Take care, everybody.
[372] Welcome to True Spies.
[373] The podcast that takes you deep inside the greatest secret missions of all time.
[374] Suddenly out of the dark it's appeared in love.
[375] You'll meet the people who live life undercover.
[376] What do they know?
[377] What are their skills?
[378] And what would you do in their position?
[379] Vengeance felt good.
[380] Seeing these people pay for what they'd done felt righteous.
[381] True Spies from Spyscape Studios.
[382] Wherever you get your podcasts.