S7 E1: Extreme Anger

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences.

[11] Episodes discuss topics that can be triggering, such as emotional, physical, and sexual violence, suicide, and murder.

[12] I'm not a therapist or a doctor.

[13] If you're in need of support, please visit something was wrong .com slash resources for a list of nonprofit organizations that can help.

[14] Some names on the podcast have been changed for anonymity purposes.

[15] Opinions expressed by guests on the show do not necessarily represent the views of myself or this podcast.

[16] Resources, references, source material, and sponsor info can be found in the episode notes.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] I first met Amy at a writing conference a few years back.

[19] I was instantly drawn to her friendly and engaging personality.

[20] Though I've been friends with Amy for several years, I had absolutely no idea of the horrific, traumatic, and life -altering experiences that she narrowly survived until she submitted her story.

[21] I'm incredibly honored that Amy is willing to share her experiences with us this season, as her story is one of the most compelling, shocking, and in the end, inspiring I've ever heard.

[22] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is, something was wrong.

[23] I grew up in Calabasas, and I didn't really go very far.

[24] I still live in the San Fernando Valley.

[25] I love to make stained glass to cook, travel, and just live my life to it the fullest every day.

[26] For this story, I spoke with Amy's lifelong best friend, Lauren, and Lauren's mom, Cynthia, whom is like a second mom to Amy and was also very close friends with Amy's mom, Hadass.

[27] Here's Amy's family friend, Cynthia.

[28] I think of Amy as a daughter.

[29] You'll have to excuse me. I am very emotional on this subject.

[30] She's probably the bravest person I've ever met.

[31] She's a very loving, gentle soul.

[32] She's very, very smart, as you probably know.

[33] She's honest.

[34] She's creative.

[35] She's considerate.

[36] Much more mature for her age.

[37] Teenage years' age.

[38] She had to be.

[39] Here's Amy's close friend, Lauren.

[40] Amy is one of the nicest people I've ever met.

[41] It's really difficult to encounter someone that doesn't have mean girl tendencies.

[42] And Amy is one of those people that is just not in her.

[43] She's not a mean girl.

[44] She's supportive.

[45] She's not jealous of other people.

[46] She is a queen.

[47] She's a supporter.

[48] She's loving.

[49] And that's something that's really rare to find.

[50] And I think that's why at such a young age, when kids are so malleable and vulnerable and they can be mean, she never was.

[51] And I think that's why we became so close.

[52] And another thing, she said, Amy is so smart.

[53] She's one of the smartest people I've ever met.

[54] She's a incredible mom to her beautiful children.

[55] And it's really heartbreaking to see what she's.

[56] been going through, especially because our lives mimic to each other so much with our brothers being the same age and our brothers being friends and our mom's being friends, that it's heartbreaking to see what she's gone through, but that she is trying to help others through this just shows what a special person she is.

[57] Here's Amy.

[58] My parents actually met in high school.

[59] My dad was a year older than my mom, and my mom was one of her.

[60] his brothers, best friends.

[61] She kind of hung out with this group of guys, and she saw my dad.

[62] I think she told me at many points in my life.

[63] It was love at first sight.

[64] But my dad was married, very young, also widowed very young.

[65] And he was a musician.

[66] So he kind of lived this rock and roll lifestyle.

[67] My mom had to kind of wait for a decade or so for him to get his shit together and eventually he gave her the chance she wanted and they got married on her birthday and she always warned me never get married on your birthday because if they forget one event they'll forget both your anniversary and your birthday so they had kind of like a torrid love affair they got married and then they had my brother I think within a couple years and then I came two years, 11 months after my brother, but by that point, they had already been divorced.

[68] My dad had many torrid affairs with many women.

[69] Unfortunately, my dad eventually left her for another woman.

[70] And she moved us back to the valley from Diamond Bar by the time I was born.

[71] So my parents were officially split up before I was born.

[72] My mom used to tell me I was the last time they had sex.

[73] You know, he was on top of being a musician and a lawyer and a lethario.

[74] He also was an alcoholic.

[75] So his ability to be there physically and mentally was very limited to a certain degree at most points in his life since I've known him.

[76] And since probably around the age of 16.

[77] So he wasn't really around.

[78] You know, he had the custody.

[79] He just didn't take it.

[80] And I believe it was probably because he was drunk most of the time, and, you know, his reliability was limited.

[81] So I remember occasional events, like the biggest events, he was there, but in pictures, his eyes look a little bloodshot, and, you know, he would sneak in early and leave much earlier.

[82] And that's kind of what his presence was.

[83] I couldn't really count on it much in childhood.

[84] Here's Amy's family friend, Cynthia.

[85] Amy's dad was pretty much absent from the home from the time that Amy was born on.

[86] So Hadass tried her best to give both Rory and Amy a wonderful childhood and a very good upbringing.

[87] She was very intelligent, very hardworking.

[88] She was just about the sole support of herself and her.

[89] her two children.

[90] She was a high school teacher.

[91] She taught math, and she really want, she had a passion wanting her students to do well.

[92] She's very honest.

[93] She was a loyal friend.

[94] She was considerate, kind, very outspoken, very competent, and she fiercely loved both of her children.

[95] Here's Amy's close friend, Lauren.

[96] Amy's mom was such a nice person.

[97] When you would go over to the house, you would feel a sense of warmth.

[98] You would feel a sense that you were completely welcome there.

[99] You weren't just a guess.

[100] You became part of Amy's family and she would teach us how to cook and she would teach us how to make candies.

[101] And there was always things for us to do.

[102] It wasn't like we were just plopped down in front of the TV, but she was a very active parent.

[103] And something else that was very interesting that I'm thinking about now is where we're from, there's not a lot of single parents.

[104] It's a two -family household.

[105] And actually thinking back, I think Amy was my only friend whose mom pretty much completely raised her.

[106] I mean, I don't even think I've ever met Amy's dad in the whole time I've been friends with her.

[107] And I've been friends with her since I was five years old.

[108] I'm Dan Tiberski.

[109] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[110] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering.

[111] super bad.

[112] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[113] She's like, I can't.

[114] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[115] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[116] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[117] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[118] Well, you were holding something back.

[119] Intentionally.

[120] Yeah, yeah.

[121] Well, yeah.

[122] No, it's hysteria.

[123] It's all in your head.

[124] It's not physical.

[125] You're, oh my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[126] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[127] Or is it something else entirely?

[128] Something's wrong here.

[129] Something's not right.

[130] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[131] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[132] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[133] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[134] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[135] I'm Sachi Cole.

[136] And I'm Sarah Haggy, and we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[137] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[138] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[139] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[140] Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[141] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.

[142] Here's Amy.

[143] Our relationships as a family unit were much different than each of our individual relationships, and it was interesting to see how they developed over years.

[144] But from as early as I can remember my brother, Rory, we were very different, he and I. We were kind of polar opposites.

[145] I was the social butterfly.

[146] He was really shy.

[147] He didn't really ever fit in, whereas even if I didn't, you know, I wasn't popular, I always had friends.

[148] So even though we were close, he and I, there was always a rivalry of sorts because of there was like a polarity between us.

[149] My aunt -in -law pulled me aside at one point.

[150] She told me she had been my brother's preschool teacher, actually, which I didn't even remember at that point.

[151] And she said, I guess in a moment of honesty that she had noticed he was pretty much different, if you will, as early as preschool.

[152] You know, he was not socially inclined and not, couldn't really attached to the kids around him.

[153] And I really do think that had to do with my dad's absence.

[154] That would be, that would have been around the time he left and the time we moved back to the valley.

[155] And it would have been a really formative time.

[156] And I know my mom was probably dealing with some sort of undiagnosed postpartum anxiety.

[157] I went through that.

[158] It's tough to do it alone after a move without a husband.

[159] I can only imagine.

[160] So that all of that must have affected my brother's development from a very early age.

[161] I, I would call him my best friend as a child.

[162] You know, when we were little, we moved a lot.

[163] I think I've moved.

[164] Probably on average once for every year I've been alive in my life, which is a lot.

[165] I'm 36.

[166] I think I've moved just about like 34 times in my life.

[167] You know, we had inconsistencies.

[168] So we were each other's consistency, which made me think he was my friend.

[169] But over the years, it definitely developed and showed me that he wasn't and he was not that safe zone as abusive relationships can, you know, do.

[170] Our family dynamic was an interesting one too.

[171] And it was probably born from my mom's relationship with my brother.

[172] was always quiet as a child.

[173] His grades were never fabulous, even though he was really smart.

[174] He couldn't really pay attention in class as well as he quote unquote should have.

[175] Kids picked on him a lot.

[176] You know, we're both really short.

[177] I'm four nine and he's like, I don't know, five, five, five, six.

[178] So, you know, as children, we were kind of different.

[179] He was already different socially.

[180] And so his physical aspects kind of made him a little ostracized.

[181] So where I, you know, was friendly, he was kind of always like the child who made my mom worry.

[182] Maybe it wasn't about his behavior yet, but it was about like how the world was receiving him.

[183] And that created a really interesting dynamic in our family and presented a lot of problems.

[184] My brother never really related to any authorities at school.

[185] I can remember, I can actually remember one teacher at our school.

[186] So I was the younger sibling and we had the same last name, obviously, and I get into school and I would have to work very hard to prove that I was not my brother.

[187] And every teacher was so pleased to me. me and no, they weren't going to deal with another one of Rory.

[188] But there, you know, there was one teacher he really connected with.

[189] And now in retrospect, it was the one teacher who didn't act like any other teacher.

[190] He was like a former actor who really didn't teach anything.

[191] He kind of just hung out with the kids.

[192] And that makes sense.

[193] It wasn't somebody who really fit into their own mold.

[194] So that was the only person that my brother really, you know, associated with.

[195] But otherwise, there were no teachers he ever really connected with.

[196] On the flip side, if you look at my social media, most of my followers, my former teachers, which speaks to how much of a nerd I was.

[197] For every negative experience and year, he was not associated, like, or didn't connect with a teacher, didn't connect with a principal or a doctor or anything.

[198] I was always connecting with a teacher or someone.

[199] I just had my third grade teacher over for Champaign in my backyard socially distant, like if that doesn't tell you anything.

[200] My third grade teacher.

[201] Well, and it's funny, to be honest, it kind of paints a picture of my mom.

[202] And like my openness too, everybody knows how open I am.

[203] But my teacher told me like my mom had kind of a difficult persona.

[204] She was a she was a substitute in my district too.

[205] So like teachers knew who she was.

[206] But she kind of had like this reputation of being a little bit of a like a little difficult, you know, a woman that's difficult.

[207] Well, that meant in the early 90s.

[208] I had a friend who wore skirts and would go on the monkey bars.

[209] And the principal used to watch the girls on the monkey bars in their underwear like flipping.

[210] And my mom caught him and like she turned him in and she earned this really bad reputation of being a shit starter well like in retrospect everything seems a little different when I have this eagle eye view but that was what I meant like my mom would never really sit down and take things if it wasn't fair and that was when where Rory was always dishing it out for her there was never any intervention outside from any teacher he was older than me by he is older than me by three years and almost three years.

[211] And I was a babysitter probably from when I was like 11, maybe even 10, a mother's helper.

[212] But my mom never suggested my brother would be the helper.

[213] It was always me because I was always the responsible one.

[214] I remember when we got to a certain point and she left us alone at home when it was like legally allowed.

[215] I was the one being put in charge, not him.

[216] So it was kind of like I was the baby sister, but I was also the older sibling in a lot of senses as well.

[217] Here's Amy's family friend, Cynthia.

[218] First, I should probably tell you that Rory's IQ was tested, I guess he was in about sixth grade, and he had an exceptionally high IQ.

[219] I noticed a change in him over time.

[220] He used to be a sweet kid in many respects, but he had some kind of a growth defect, so he was small.

[221] going into middle school, I know, and I got this from Amy's mom, that he was, he was taunted and teased, and it was extremely difficult situation for him.

[222] Here's Amy.

[223] When he was in about fourth grade, I remember he had a teacher.

[224] My brother just could not listen to.

[225] They had a very tenuous relationship.

[226] And that became an issue.

[227] And I remember that was a turning point in his education.

[228] And that was when my mom really got concerned with him.

[229] You know, he, I think he lost interest in school.

[230] You know, this was the early 90s when boys will be boys.

[231] So if kids were being picked on, it was like, eh, just put him in karate so he can toughen up.

[232] And, you know, he would be in karate and he would just get angrier.

[233] Get being, you know, no matter what tools she tried to find him, he just got angrier and more isolated.

[234] Because I probably, to a certain degree, it felt shitty to hear it was always you.

[235] Society isn't going to change.

[236] So you change.

[237] And he, I guess, didn't really have that capability, especially without any other resources besides my mom.

[238] Here's Cynthia.

[239] As he became a teenager, I noticed two sides to his personality.

[240] One, he was very inconsiderate of his mother and her disability at the time.

[241] He was moody.

[242] He was sneaky.

[243] He was disruptive.

[244] I think that in many respects he was jealous of the relationship that Amy had with her mom.

[245] He had seemed to have mood swings and hostility.

[246] He was sneaky and he would be really nice and sweet to me if I had over there.

[247] But he would flare.

[248] His personality would flare and he'd become really a hostile, evil human being.

[249] He didn't like something that his mom said.

[250] So he kicked in the oven glass and there were times where he did hit his mom and he would strike her.

[251] If something happened that he didn't like, it was almost as if he could not control his anger and he had to take it out in some way.

[252] There was a hole in the wall in one of the rooms where he either kicked it with his foot or with a fist.

[253] By the time he was a young teenager, he was showing signs of hostile, disruptive type of personality.

[254] But other times, he would come over to my home with my son and he could be the sweetest, nicest, most considerate for those few minutes.

[255] Here's Amy.

[256] His anger truly began to escalate and abuse truly began to escalate.

[257] It became environmental and verbal first.

[258] You know, he would yell and scream and he would call my mom a bitch.

[259] Like the first swear words I definitely learned were from him.

[260] I don't know where my brother picked him up, but I remember learning them from him.

[261] So he would call her a bitch, I think probably as early as fifth or sixth grade.

[262] He became, you know, as he became angrier, he would punch holes in the walls or slam doors.

[263] And I remember lots of like pockmarked doorknob marks on the walls behind our doors.

[264] Around that same time, he actually started trying to commit suicide.

[265] So he was, originally, I would say, the abuse was verbal and environmental.

[266] Like, I don't even know if that's an abuse type, but like, you know, he was inflicted on our environment, our home rather than us at first, and then himself at the same time.

[267] I also remember around the time that Rory was having difficulties in school, maybe for the first time -ish, he started seeing the school.

[268] He started seeing counselor.

[269] You know, my mom was Israeli.

[270] She was emotional.

[271] She was open.

[272] And she, my degree is in psychology.

[273] She was fully supportive of me being a therapist at one point in my life, you know, when that was my plan.

[274] So she was supportive of therapy, but our means to get it was pretty limited.

[275] So he definitely went to a school counselor.

[276] I know that around the time he had issues, you know, issues starting with fitting in and, you know, working well in a classroom.

[277] And even a school counselor didn't really have the means to help.

[278] That was, I think, when karate was suggested and saying words of affirmation in the mirror and not really dealing with the bullying that was happening at school.

[279] And I think that was when his attachment to the outside world and not only to our parents kind of shifted as well.

[280] And that was when the verbal abuse and the physical abuse in our house really started, I would say.

[281] Eventually, when he got more volatile.

[282] Like I said, punching holes in the wall, slamming doors, breaking things.

[283] He transitioned into real therapy.

[284] But what he quickly learned at home was when he really used abusive language.

[285] He was isolated.

[286] And I guess isolation was what he was seeking to a certain degree because that was where his comfort zone remained.

[287] So he would do the same thing to his therapist.

[288] You know, he eventually got really volatile and verbally abusive to his therapist.

[289] And his actual therapists, you know, with our health insurance would quit on him too.

[290] So there was the school system and the health system, not really giving him much help.

[291] And I know that was probably when at around maybe the age of 14 or 15 when he tried to commit suicide for the first time.

[292] And I was about 11 or 12.

[293] I can clearly remember his very first attempt at suicide.

[294] It was by over -medicating himself.

[295] with Advil.

[296] My mom and I found him together, and they had had a fight before a family event.

[297] And, you know, we had left him.

[298] It was something about something very mundane as they always were.

[299] They really didn't need much to fight about.

[300] He kind of always had anger in him.

[301] And my mom, something I learned about her, she was a fighter for justice.

[302] She wasn't really necessarily a fighter inherently, you know, she was a lover.

[303] But there was just something about my brother that thrived on conflict and he knew how to push my mom's button.

[304] So I remember, you know, I think he called her a bitch one time and he didn't want to go to a family dinner or something.

[305] So he stayed home.

[306] And we came home and we found him.

[307] And he had tried to commit suicide.

[308] It was very shocking and heartbreaking.

[309] And I remember her leaving me home to take him to the hospital.

[310] That was his first stomach pumping.

[311] And I was 12.

[312] Yes.

[313] No, maybe even 13 by then.

[314] Those are like the times when you're supposed to be left alone for the first time.

[315] You know, you're supposed to have a new responsibility and be excited about being home alone.

[316] But I was being, you know, left home alone because my brother had attempted suicide.

[317] And I remember my mom eventually coming to pick me up and, you know, we went to visit him in the hospital.

[318] And that was pretty jarring as well.

[319] And then next came his first day at what I would call as a child, because that was the term being used, you know, a mental institution in all, for all intents and purposes, that's what it was called at that point.

[320] So I think around 14 or 15, that was where I started visiting him for chunks at a time.

[321] And I think that there were probably about three or four attempts that he took on his own life before he kind of, I guess, started trying to divert the abuse, the physical abuse to us.

[322] Now that I think about it and digested it a lot more.

[323] You know, I know that verbal abuse he attacked us with.

[324] was how he was feeling on the inside.

[325] And the physical abuse at the first was what he was inflicting on himself because that was also what he was feeling.

[326] Eventually, his impulse control was so poor that, and he couldn't really be successful on his own, I guess.

[327] And eventually his anger grew so in his hatred and his detachment from people and Calabasas and our society and what he was supposed to be like.

[328] He became a looser canon to the outside world.

[329] And right after that, he was actually one of the youngest people to ever be diagnosed in our country with bipolar disorder and a couple of their diagnoses and labels, including Tourette's syndrome and obsessive compulsive disorder.

[330] To be honest, I think the point where I knew he was not my best friend, like we called each other, but he was really my abuser.

[331] And I think there's a common misconception, especially even in like romantic relationships or any relationship really that's abusive.

[332] You know, we think a best friend who might speak to us unkindly is still they're a best friend because on the upswing, they're really nice.

[333] You know, probably the turning point where I really knew he was different.

[334] And I knew, you know, I've always been interested in psychology.

[335] I've always wanted to be a teacher.

[336] So part of my trainings from even like early age was children.

[337] So I remember learning.

[338] If kids light fires and want to kill animals, that's a bad sign.

[339] And I think I remember like my mom one time leaving us alone.

[340] And it was like one of those moments where mom was like, Hey, Amy, you're in charge.

[341] Make sure he doesn't do anything stupid.

[342] And I remember almost instantly when she was gone, he wanted to light a fire in the bathtub.

[343] And, you know, I thought maybe it was out of curiosity.

[344] But now in retrospect, it was probably to try to get me in trouble because the fire alarm went off.

[345] The firefighters actually came to our house.

[346] And, you know, while my mom was gone.

[347] And my mom, like, she was only gone for a short amount of time.

[348] I think she ran to the store back.

[349] You know, and we were probably, I think, 11 and 14.

[350] So it was legal.

[351] And he blackmailed me into saying it was me that lit the fire.

[352] Because I guess, and I knew in my childish mind that he would be in more trouble than I would.

[353] So I took the blame.

[354] And I remember thinking, this is not right.

[355] He doesn't act right.

[356] This relationship, this dynamic that I'm allowing is not right.

[357] I just didn't know how to verbalize it.

[358] I didn't know what sibling abuse meant.

[359] I didn't know what boundaries were.

[360] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[361] She had been under the influence that she left him there.

[362] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[363] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[364] What happens next depends on who you ask.

[365] Was it a crime of passion?

[366] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[367] This was clearly an intentional act.

[368] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[369] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[370] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[371] Everyone had an opinion.

[372] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not.

[373] not come to a unanimous decision.

[374] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[375] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[376] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[377] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[378] To go on from that even, I remember one time, even further down the line, I think I maybe was 14 So he was around 17.

[379] We were in our kitchen making food.

[380] My mom was gone again.

[381] And I guess now looking back, that was probably when the worst of the abuse happened.

[382] When my mom was gone, that was his time to be deviant because he could get away with it.

[383] And he knew, I guess, I would try to absorb some of that for him.

[384] I was definitely an enabler.

[385] I didn't even know what that was, though.

[386] And, you know, a lot of times just like abuse happens, as the victim, you felt shameful of it.

[387] So you keep it a secret.

[388] And I think that was where he, you know, he banked on that.

[389] So I remember, like, I was 14, maybe he, 17, and we were in the kitchen cooking, and he did a knife in his hand.

[390] I asked him a question.

[391] He turned towards me with the knife out, like wielding it almost.

[392] And he cut me on my hand.

[393] And it looked very purposeful.

[394] Like, obviously, when you're talking to someone, you don't just wield a knife outwardly.

[395] And he made me promise I would never tell mom.

[396] And, you know, it wasn't on purpose.

[397] I cut myself.

[398] And that's what I told.

[399] As a result, I wasn't allowed to cook by myself for a while.

[400] That was probably when I knew 100%.

[401] This is not right.

[402] And the words I didn't have yet were I am being abused by my older brother.

[403] Here's Amy's close friend, Lauren.

[404] My perspective of Rory really changed over the years.

[405] When Amy and I were little, you know, our brothers were friends.

[406] They would play.

[407] everything was fine.

[408] I would say when I turned about eight and Amy was eight, my brother would roughhouse with me a lot.

[409] He almost read me like I was his, you know, kid brother and Rory would always say, hey, be gentle on your sister.

[410] She's just a girl, be gentle.

[411] And he would stand up for me a lot.

[412] And there were certain times that I would look at Amy and Rory and be like, wow, they seem really close.

[413] I wish that my brother and I were close like that.

[414] He seemed so nice to her.

[415] As time went on, in high school, I didn't see much of Rory because he was very strange.

[416] He had shifted.

[417] And my brother was in boarding school.

[418] So if my brother wasn't around, there was no reason for me to really see Rory.

[419] When my brother got back from boarding school, he and Rory, would hang out.

[420] They were like brothers.

[421] They were best friends.

[422] He would always be over at my dad's house.

[423] He would stay at my dad's house.

[424] And I just noticed a emptiness behind his eyes that just did not seem right.

[425] And then I started to hear how he treated Amy's mom for my brother, that he would hit her sometimes.

[426] She would kick him out.

[427] And then she would let him back in.

[428] And then they would fight and he would tell her he was sleeping in the car, Poor Me's story, while he's staying at my dad's and Calabasas having everything, you know, taking care of for him.

[429] So I started to see this really creepy person change over the years that kind of started to scare me a little bit.

[430] Here's Amy.

[431] Another turning point, if you will, and definitely the moment I knew my relationship with my brother was not normal, was probably when I was about 12 or 13, again, a super formative time.

[432] I felt so ugly and ashamed, especially because of all the words he used to call me, like To Can Sam or whatever he came up with to, you know, bag on my looks, my nose, my weight, my height, whatever.

[433] I was already feeling insecure.

[434] He definitely took that and weaponized that insecurity.

[435] And that was when the abuse for me physically shifted.

[436] Most of the physical abuse happened when mom was away.

[437] You know, like she, she was a teacher.

[438] She worked, she was a single mom, obviously, as I said before.

[439] So, and, you know, my dad didn't pay child support.

[440] He was a lawyer, but he kind of hid his employment a lot.

[441] And it was like the 90s, so there wasn't as many, you know, electronic ways to keep track of income.

[442] So he, she had to work a lot.

[443] So she was gone a lot.

[444] Seven in the morning till about five or six in the afternoon.

[445] It even got to a point, though, where like some of the worst abuse I faced by him, he would blackmail me. And it is the stupidest thing.

[446] I don't think I've ever told anyone this.

[447] He blacked me about my yearbook.

[448] I remember I scratched my face out of the yearbook.

[449] And in Calabasas, those things were fucking expensive.

[450] I think it was like $200.

[451] Money was not easy to come by.

[452] And he told me, Mom is going to kill you.

[453] And I believed him.

[454] And, you know, at first he blackmailed me and said, stay home from school, miss out on school.

[455] It was like sixth grade for me, seventh grade for me. I was a really good student.

[456] If I missed a day of school here and there, it never really reflected in my grades.

[457] And, you know, we would like watch TV.

[458] He'd like blackmail me to watch TV.

[459] Then it, like, he'd blackmail me to like stay home.

[460] And because he was already having school trouble.

[461] He didn't want to be there.

[462] It became, you know, like blackmailing me and doing stupid.

[463] like lighting a fire in the bathtub again.

[464] Eventually, you know, he became physical with me. He was a lot less physically angry with me because I was more of the buffer between the two of them.

[465] Maybe not when I was younger, but as I got older, I kind of found that position of being a fulcrum.

[466] You know, it started by him abusing my time and my boundaries.

[467] He would tell me to miss a day of school.

[468] Just say, tell mom, your period's bugging you or like, you know, I already started getting my period.

[469] Or, you know, tell her you're not feeling good.

[470] stay home with me or else I'm going to tell mom about your yearbook.

[471] And in retrospect, I even saying that statement seems so fucking stupid for me. But I heard it and I listened and I stayed home.

[472] And you know, we would start, he would like light a fire in the bathtub, something boundary abusing.

[473] Not really testing me physically yet, but eventually when Rory got most physical with mom, it was always, you know, abusive and angry, anger driven.

[474] With me, I never really approached situations like that.

[475] I guess as a child and somebody much smaller and like not his parent trying to teach him boundaries, I never matched any energy.

[476] I was always trying to absorb theirs, I guess, especially my brothers.

[477] So when he told me to stay home, I would.

[478] When he lit a fire in the bathtub, I made an excuse.

[479] And then eventually as he got more physical with me, unfortunately, it wasn't driven from anger because his emotions weren't there.

[480] I can probably we say the physical abuse started when I was 12 or 13.

[481] I was in middle school, like I said, a very formative time.

[482] I was super insecure.

[483] And, you know, he blackmailed me to stay at home.

[484] I think I missed about 60 days of school one year.

[485] And I had doctor's notes and mom's notes.

[486] But really, it was because my brother was telling me I had to stay home.

[487] And eventually, you know, he was blackmailing me into doing more drastic things, like getting naked in front of him, which makes me want to vomit because I had never done that before with anybody else.

[488] So my first sexual experiences were very much in front of my brother.

[489] And I say that very specifically like in front because he was very careful as a master manipulator and a master abuser and somebody who's been through therapy for many years.

[490] I know what a sociopath now looks like and how they act.

[491] He was so intelligent in being an abuser.

[492] He knew that he could molest me without even touching me. And if he didn't use his hands on me, that that would give him a little bit of innocence, I think, that gave him a buffer and a comfort.

[493] And I would say that was when the sexual abuse started.

[494] Without getting too graphic, he forced me into having my first sexual experiences in front of him, inserting items that he would find in his drawers.

[495] And then keeping them as if they were like his totems, which is just disgusting.

[496] And totally, I've only shared with very few people that's far in my life.

[497] And I think that it took me years to even realize that I had been molested by my brother because his hands never touched my body in that way.

[498] And that's something that's so intricate and almost impossible about sibling abuse is that there are so many layers to it and so many different facets and kinds that it's hard to identify, especially when a victim is made to feel at fault and or guilty in subway.

[499] I'm so sorry that you experienced that in any way.

[500] I imagine it's very isolating and also very confusing when you're a child.

[501] I was also being told that it was kind of my fault, and I had done something to elicit it, and that was an acceptable boundary for me to absorb.

[502] And that was kind of a mind fuck as a child.

[503] Yeah.

[504] Something that I'll continue to share that my mom used to tout, like my mom was, you can tell from that statement, you were the last time, but we had sex.

[505] My mom was not a woman to shy from the sex talk.

[506] So I was raised to be a liberal, a woman, like liberal, quote unquote, but like just a woman who accepted her desires and drives.

[507] And to have that as like that secret polarity in me. And sometimes I question like my own sexuality, not in the sense.

[508] like who am I and what I'm like you know but but is some of my intense desire and drive based out of like my sexual trauma and that's hard for me to swallow at times I never really did you know I didn't share with my mom that was something I took to her grave I'm obviously not taking it to my grave because I understand it's not mine to swallow anymore I think the nature of abuse is just almost like a snowball you know an abuser will test boundaries and the more they can get away with the more they do.

[509] And I think at a certain point, I got older.

[510] I don't even remember how it stopped or why it stopped, to be honest.

[511] I don't remember any major shift.

[512] I never told my mom.

[513] I never told authorities.

[514] It just became something I had to deal with until he was taken out of my life.

[515] And that was when I could absorb the real impact of it.

[516] But it stopped almost as quickly as it started.

[517] There was no precipitation.

[518] It was in my middle school years.

[519] I remember it being over and done.

[520] And I think that it was just buried.

[521] I think as I've digested our family history more and more, I realize the nature of abuse also, the reason abuse even occurs is because of that burying, that not talking about it.

[522] So it happened.

[523] It was over and we buried it.

[524] I didn't lose my virginity until after high school.

[525] So I don't think it like launched me down any sort of like highly sexual path where I was like trying to figure that out through experience.

[526] But it made me feel ugly.

[527] It definitely shifted my own perspective of myself.

[528] I felt tainted.

[529] Almost as quickly as it started, it just kind of ended.

[530] And it was like this dark one year, one and a half years of our siblinghood.

[531] And it was never really mentioned again.

[532] And again, I think that's how abuse happens and abuse, you know, like abuse persists of any nature.

[533] Another thing that really stood out about my brother is that not only did he really not fit in at school.

[534] or in class.

[535] He couldn't really learn like everybody else.

[536] He also had this drive unlike other people.

[537] And the drive in retrospect, my mom used to say he was like CEO worthy.

[538] Like he was a businessman.

[539] But to me, it's almost like a con man. And he's always had this desire to make something off of other people.

[540] Like even as early as I can remember, he was buying, if we went to like Costco trips, he would buy a bulk candy and then sell it for like triple or quadruple the price at school under like under the market like he would just he would tell my mom he was going to eat it over time and it was his money so he could invest it but like where was he getting the money anyways well other kids and he was making bank off of them and it was almost always like an industry to polarize himself from other people you know either to be better to be making money off of them or to be like abusing them in some way and that even in retrospect is something that I see that.

[541] He was always trying to take advantage of someone in some way.

[542] Next time.

[543] I never thought that anything like this would happen because things like this just don't happen.

[544] So he had risk -taking behaviors.

[545] He learned how to fake a lie detector cast.

[546] Something Was Wrong is produced and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese.

[547] Music on this episode from Gladrags, check out their album, Wonder Under.

[548] If you'd like to help support the growth of Something Was Wrong, you can help by leaving a positive review, sharing the podcast with your family, friends, and followers, and support at patreon .com slash something was wrong.

[549] Something Was Wrong now has a free virtual survivor support forum at something was wrong .com.

[550] You can remain as anonymous as you need.

[551] Thank you so much.

[552] much for listening.

[553] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[554] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon music.

[555] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.