Righting the Historical Wrong of the Claiborne Highway

[0] So I wonder if you could sort of close your eyes and remember what life was like on Claiborne Avenue when you were a kid.

[1] Okay.

[2] Now, you know, I was born in 1948, so I have plenty memories of Claiborne.

[3] It was a festive place.

[4] It was a place where you could hear people talking when you walked down the street.

[5] You could actually even hear the people who were selling fruit, calling out the fruit man. or the guy who collected rags howling about rag man. You might hear a brass band playing because all of the funeral homes were on Claiborne.

[6] So, you know, I mean, it was basically like an old country town.

[7] What is it like walking down Claiborne now?

[8] I attempt not to do that.

[9] From the New York Times, I'm Sabrina Tavernisi.

[10] This is the Daily.

[11] Last week, President Biden signed a trillion dollar infrastructure package into law, a package that the administration has long said would focus on racial equity.

[12] This plan is important, not only for what and how it builds, it's also important to where we build.

[13] It includes everyone regardless of erase your zip code.

[14] And in talking about the kind of infrastructure programs such a plan might include, the Biden administration called out the Claiborne Expressway in New Orleans as a place where government could write historical wrongs.

[15] Too often investments have failed to meet the needs of marginalized communities left behind.

[16] Today, my colleague Audra Birch tells the story of that highway and whether it's possible to undo the damage it caused.

[17] It's Tuesday, November 23rd.

[18] So, Audra, tell us about what happened when you went to Tramay.

[19] So I met a woman named Lynette Bouté.

[20] Lynette Bouté.

[21] I was born April 9, 1948.

[22] She's 73 years old.

[23] She owns a beauty salon there.

[24] And it's interesting because she's like so many people in New Orleans who, when they tell you their story...

[25] My family history goes back in New Orleans.

[26] They start from the very beginning.

[27] As far as the 1 ,500s on my mother's side.

[28] Tremay is this historic African -American neighborhood, one of the oldest in the country.

[29] It's a place where history feels like it's present.

[30] And my dad, his ancestors, came in.

[31] And what was Tramé like when Lynette was growing up?

[32] We did everything inside this community.

[33] You had every kind of entertainment you wanted.

[34] The music was unbelievable.

[35] This is the 50s and the 60s, and she talks just lovingly about this tremay before the highway.

[36] You had street vans.

[37] You had a second line after most funerals, which was, like, unbelievable when, you know, you're a child and you're like, why these people dancing and somebody's dead.

[38] And the center of all of this, the center of Tremay was Claiborne Avenue.

[39] Every one of the main businesses on Claiborne was family -owned and local -owned.

[40] Funeral parlors and grocery stores, social clubs, dressmakers, pharmacies.

[41] It was the only place that we went grocery shopping when my mom needed to do what we would call Easter shopping and stuff.

[42] Claiborne was the central business district of the black community in New Orleans.

[43] Black Americans had built a place where everything they needed was right within the neighborhood.

[44] People there owned their homes and they owned their shops.

[45] So everybody knew everybody, everybody was very careful about what he did.

[46] It was a place that she felt was like a gigantic family for her.

[47] Everybody there was somebody she knew.

[48] Everybody's mother and father was your mother and father.

[49] So you walking down Claiborne Avenue and it's, what's up?

[50] Where's your mama?

[51] You know, you better stop that.

[52] I'm going to call your mama.

[53] And then there were the trees.

[54] The trees were unbelievable.

[55] Lynette talked about these oak trees.

[56] They were soaring and majestic.

[57] The trees were very old, so they all had their own shapes.

[58] They lined Claiborne Avenue on both sides of the median.

[59] As far as the eye could see.

[60] All you could see was trees.

[61] The trees were so heavy.

[62] If it rained, you really weren't going to get wet because the trees were like all umbrellas, okay?

[63] But it was just amazing because everybody was like set up under the trees to have picnics.

[64] And when I asked Lynette what was one of her favorite memories about life on Claiborne, she immediately said, black Mardi Gras.

[65] You would walk down Claiborne Avenue under the big oak trees and we wore costumes.

[66] We did we did wear costumes for Mardi Gras.

[67] And what about the costumes?

[68] I mean, I'm intrigued by this.

[69] Oh, my God.

[70] I'm talking about when I was maybe five and six years old.

[71] We were dressed as cowboys and cowgirls.

[72] And face painting, you had the hat, the guns on your hips.

[73] Because the girls were even wearing guns on the hips then.

[74] I was always the one that wanted to do, say, exotic.

[75] So you sit there and you can see people that you've known all your life and not recognize them because they're in the costumes.

[76] And so you would spend the next two days saying, oh, did you see such and such a thing?

[77] And it says, oh, yeah, that was so -and -so.

[78] So it was like the whole community was one big family and enjoying just the fact that you had a place that you could gather and feel safe.

[79] When she talked about Tremay, she was talking about a place where life for Black Americans was fully realized.

[80] I don't think that I was ever told that there was something that I couldn't achieve or do.

[81] And it reminded me of my own experiences.

[82] I grew up in Decatur, Georgia, which is right outside of Atlanta.

[83] And we, too, had these kinds of neighborhoods where they were mostly black, and they were full of possibilities.

[84] The Tremay of her childhood was like a haven, but change was coming.

[85] I had a feeling.

[86] So tell me what happened.

[87] The highway.

[88] This is the greatest construction program in the entire history of the nation.

[89] This was part of a larger vision.

[90] This was America's march into the future.

[91] President Eisenhower signs the Federal Aid Highway Act in 1956.

[92] We know that it authorizes construction of a network of highways, 41 ,000 miles, I think.

[93] A road program that will take this nation out of its antiquated shackles of secondary roads all over this country and give us the types of highways that we need for this great mass, a vote of years.

[94] And this is considered like a public works marvel.

[95] In fact, as far as the eye can see, in almost every city, concrete and asphalt are changing the patterns of land and land use.

[96] The idea was there needed to be an efficient way to carry people from place to place.

[97] Soon, traffic will flow smoothly in, around, and between every major city and town in America.

[98] Specifically into a lot of these downtowns or central.

[99] business districts.

[100] Each interstate mile that brings a suburban community closer to the city it serves means more people willing to drive the 20 or 30 or even 50 miles between home and job.

[101] These highways were built all over the nation.

[102] They were built in places like Detroit and in Los Angeles, in Atlanta, and it also helps facilitate the expansion and the growth of suburbs.

[103] This is the road to prosperity.

[104] It is already bringing a new kind of life to people like these and to the place.

[105] And all this highway construction was part of what comes to be known as urban renewal.

[106] And so what happens when urban renewal comes to New Orleans?

[107] City planners knew they needed to find a way to connect the Central Business District to I -10, which, as we know, is a huge interstate that crosses the south and runs east and west.

[108] But that meant the highway had to go somewhere in the city, and eventually that meant intramay.

[109] And why through Tramay in particular?

[110] That's a very good question.

[111] This is the heart of the program that the Biden administration is trying to push through.

[112] And that is why were so many of these neighborhoods, black neighborhoods and low -income neighborhoods chosen for highways?

[113] Why were highways barreling through these neighborhoods?

[114] In the case of New Orleans, in the case of Tramay, there were certainly some practical considerations.

[115] Claiborne Avenue was very wide, and it was obviously very close to the down.

[116] downtown area.

[117] But Robert Moses, the urban planner, he actually was opposed to the idea of Tremay because he thought that the impact would be so negative.

[118] The thing is that not many people knew about it and the people who did know about it simply didn't have the political clout to actually stop this plan.

[119] Some residents of Tremay didn't even know this was happening until the machinery showed up in February of 1966.

[120] It wasn't like they gave you a forewarning.

[121] they didn't come and say, come on, let's sit down and talk to the people right here that this is going to affect.

[122] And to your knowledge, did your family in any way try to fight it, to stop it from happening?

[123] No. No, because it was already happening.

[124] It was whatever was done was done with the state and the city and the politicians.

[125] At this point, Lynette is in college.

[126] When I came back from my first semester at Gremlin, she comes home on a break.

[127] They had started taking the oak trees down.

[128] And quite suddenly, the trees are gone.

[129] It was like as if an earthquake went down the center of Claiborne, and they were trying to remove the debris from the earthquake.

[130] She was shocked.

[131] There is literally construction everywhere you turn.

[132] What was it like to see Claiborne without the trees?

[133] these trees that you've known most of your life.

[134] It's a void.

[135] It's like a void.

[136] It's like coming home and your house has been removed from the spot it was in.

[137] And your heart drops.

[138] And to make room for the highway, both businesses and homes had to be cleared.

[139] Lynette's home was spared.

[140] But according to one advocacy organization, 500 homes were ultimately bulldozed.

[141] Wow.

[142] So what happens to Tramay as a result of this project?

[143] The highway is disruptive in big ways and small ways.

[144] Lynette's family, like so many others, can't even walk across Playborn Avenue.

[145] And now they have to leave their neighborhood, a place that has been so safe for them to do their shopping.

[146] My grandmother was very upset about it because she was looking for stuff we had to end up going on to Canal Street.

[147] And when they do, they encounter a kind of racist.

[148] that they had been protected from in Tramay.

[149] You were going into the areas where you had to keep your hands folded in front you when you walked through the stores because my mom was not going to be the one to have somebody said you touch something.

[150] So you walk like little ducks, you know.

[151] And then once the highway is actually completed, it just sets off a vicious cycle.

[152] Because the traffic change, once you stopped people who were from the community from driving down Claiborne, the businesses start to fail.

[153] You're talking about the traffic getting rerouted, and then the local businesses are struggling because they don't have the foot traffic, and they can't weather this construction, and they struggle, and they start closing down.

[154] I came home, and I couldn't go to the same 24 -hour restaurants on Claiborne.

[155] They were no longer there.

[156] And so so much of this neighborhood, so much of what powered this neighborhood, So much of what made it strong and vibrant is gutted, and the whole community suffers.

[157] So it kind of puts you in a loss for culture.

[158] This is not the Grand Boulevard that she grew up with, and so many aspects of Black Life realized.

[159] The things that had made this community so proud has started to crumble.

[160] And over time, the tremay they knew has transformed.

[161] In some ways, it's not even familiar to them anymore.

[162] And this is happening in black neighborhoods all across the country.

[163] You know, James Baldwin famously referred to urban renewal as Negro removal.

[164] And so so many of these communities are left with this question.

[165] How do you learn to live with this highway?

[166] And what community is left behind?

[167] We'll be right back.

[168] So, Audra, what is life like in Tremaine now?

[169] Well, it's very different now.

[170] Lynette owns a beauty salon, and it's just a few blocks from the highway.

[171] So she's seen up close what has happened to the neighborhood that she grew up in.

[172] There were more than 100 businesses before the highway was there, and now that number has fallen to just a few dozen.

[173] This is a place that doesn't feel like where she grew up.

[174] The location that I live in now, which is three blocks off of Claiborne, and two blocks from where I grew up.

[175] I'm in a second floor balcony on my property.

[176] And I could see when they do the fireworks on the river.

[177] It's absolutely beautiful.

[178] The only trouble is I'm listening to the cars on the bridge.

[179] The traffic is right at the eye level of where my balcony is.

[180] It is so loud that sometimes she can't hear herself with the rumbling of the trucks going across.

[181] the highway.

[182] Now whenever there's an event in town, football season, Mardi Gras, any of the other festivals, oh my God.

[183] It's as if you're, it's an evacuation and everybody only has one direction to go in.

[184] It's bumper to bumper.

[185] So you can imagine the smell and the sounds of people blowing their horns.

[186] And then we have the big trucks, the delivery trucks, because it's an in -estate.

[187] It's ridiculous.

[188] It's something that was a total unnecessary evil.

[189] So when I look at it, all I can see is a whole bunch of concrete that is causing more and more damage to the houses and the businesses in this area.

[190] In her mind, this didn't have to happen.

[191] So given everything you've been describing of what Tramay once was and what the highway's done to it, I have to think that Lynette would welcome the Biden administration stepping in here.

[192] What will that look like?

[193] Well, the Biden administration has not laid out a very specific plan, and part of what's going to happen is going to really depend on the priorities of state and local governments.

[194] will have to apply for grants.

[195] And so the question becomes, what do communities want to do with the highways that have been in their neighborhoods for such a long time?

[196] And in New Orleans, they actually looked at this issue back in 2012.

[197] They brought the community in to have a conversation about what they would like to see done with the Claiborne Expressway.

[198] You know, there was the idea of actually removing the highway.

[199] But then there was another option, which was just to remove some of the on and off ramps.

[200] But what's interesting is many people in Tremay have complicated feelings about doing any of these options.

[201] What do you mean?

[202] Well, let's look at Lynette, for example.

[203] She's been here for decades, and she watched what happened to the community when the highway was built the first time.

[204] But she also saw Tremay tried to rebuild itself.

[205] Claibon Avenue has become, I guess, meeting place central.

[206] The people are gathering because all of the locations that they normally would have gathered in over the years have been eliminated.

[207] So everybody gathers under the bridge.

[208] You have entrepreneurs.

[209] They're selling anything from jewelry to food of all kinds.

[210] And they have portable dachry machines that they're bringing out there.

[211] And then you have bands playing.

[212] So it's like, it's not the same neighborhood that she grew up in, but it has heart.

[213] And she believes a project this big would destroy the community once again.

[214] You know, I got kind of frantic when they were talking about taking it down.

[215] And, you know, I've done the research on the arch.

[216] It would be three years of loss of commerce as far as business.

[217] Anybody on Claiborne, including myself, I would lose my business for three years.

[218] She doesn't know that businesses will actually survive all the construction, all the traffic being rerouted just like the first time around.

[219] She remembers the disruption.

[220] Five in the morning, they were starting to work at five in the morning.

[221] And that's what it's going to be this time.

[222] Three years of that?

[223] Come on, Arj.

[224] I mean, that was sent a real sane person insane.

[225] I can't imagine what it would do with my crazy ass.

[226] You know, and what are they going to do after they take it down?

[227] You're not going to be able to grow a 300 -year -old oak fast enough to put it there.

[228] And so, Lynette has an idea.

[229] Just imagine being able to walk on that bridge and smell fresh air and not cars.

[230] She thinks the best way to address the highway is to actually leave it alone, but change its purpose.

[231] I don't care about the bridge coming down, but I would be very, very adamant about them converting it to a green space.

[232] I think it would help the community economically by making it a bike path.

[233] seating areas for people to buy, say, a taco or anything, and sit and eat, to have music and entertainment.

[234] So that would be, to me, one of the things that would help the community, provide jobs.

[235] She believes at this point, the only way to go is to actually embrace the highway and make it work for the neighborhood.

[236] But I talked to other people in the neighborhood, and they had other concerns.

[237] One concern that came up over and over again was the idea that removing the highway was going to usher in a wave of gentrification.

[238] And so you have these longtime homeowners, people who have lived in the neighborhood for decades, who are scared that they're going to be priced out of the place that they call home.

[239] Well, so now that the infrastructure bill has been signed, where do things stand with this program?

[240] You know, that's up in the air.

[241] The Biden administration originally proposed, $20 billion towards this, and that number was scaled back to $1 billion.

[242] That's not a lot of money for all of the neighborhoods that might be interested in doing something like that.

[243] But what their hope is that they can use some of these monies to get these projects off the ground.

[244] The Biden administration has been very clear that they want racial equity to be a lens on other infrastructure projects.

[245] And so when you have a lens like racial equity, it really is going to raise other questions like how do you do infrastructure projects in a way that feels equitable as well as inclusive?

[246] How do you do them in a way that makes it clear that you've learned the lessons of the past, that communities have to be a part of planning processes?

[247] But the real question here is politics.

[248] State and local governments will be making the decisions about how the monies are spent in their community.

[249] So as this money winds its way into communities, The question now becomes, will the Biden administration's vision of racial equity take hold?

[250] Audra, thank you.

[251] Thank you.

[252] Lynette, let me just say thank you so much for taking the time to share with us your Tremay.

[253] I would be happy to share it with you at any time, and you're welcome to come and eat some gumbo and some pan -ne meat with us, okay?

[254] All right.

[255] Thank you so much.

[256] I appreciate it.

[257] Talk soon.

[258] Bye bye.

[259] Bye bye.

[260] Bye -bye.

[261] We'll be right back.

[262] Here's what else you need to know today.

[263] I want to identify the victims that we know of at this time.

[264] And I say this with great sorrow.

[265] Virginia Sorensen, 79 -year -old female.

[266] On Monday, authorities in Wisconsin charged a 39 -year -old man with five counts of intentional homicide.

[267] After he drove into a Christmas parade in the town of Waukesha.

[268] outside Milwaukee on Sunday, killing at least five people and injuring more than 48, including two children.

[269] The subject was taken into custody a short distance from the scene, and we are confident he acted alone.

[270] Authority said the man, Daryl E. Brooks, Jr., did not know anyone in the parade and had left the scene of a domestic dispute just minutes earlier.

[271] There's no evidence that this is a terrorist incident.

[272] Mr. Brooks had been freed on bail six days before, after being accused of trying to run over his girlfriend with the same car.

[273] And, I'm nominating Jerome Powell for second term as chair of the Federal Reserve.

[274] President Biden re -nominated Jerome Powell, a Republican who was appointed by President Trump to be chairman of the Federal Reserve for another four years, a choice that reflected continuity at a moment of rapid inflation and economic uncertainty.

[275] Jay's steady and decisive leadership helped to stabilize markets and put our economy on track to a robust recovery.

[276] While some progressive Democrats criticize Mr. Powell's reappointment, the move was primarily greeted with bipartisan praise, suggesting an easy path to confirmation in the Senate.

[277] Today's episode was produced by Rob Zipko, Stella Tan, Michael Simon Johnson, Austin Mitchell, and Sydney Harper.

[278] It was edited by Paige Cowett and Lisa Tobin, and engineered by Chris Wood, with original music by Marian Lazzon, Dan Powell and Alicia E -Tube.

[279] Our theme music is by Jim Brumberg and Ben Lansberg of Wonderly.

[280] That's it for the Daily.

[281] I'm Sabrina Tavernisi.

[282] See you tomorrow.