Julia Wandelt In HMP Peterborough! Q&A with Gemma Ex HMP Peterborough Prisoner | Podcast 703 McCann Case

[0] Good evening, everybody.

[1] I am delighted to have Gemma back.

[2] And she's come on at such short notice, guys.

[3] Gemma, you may remember, was on the podcast a while ago.

[4] Come on and did a part two recently as well.

[5] And all of Gemma's links, TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, etc. Bipolar Mom.

[6] She's got her own YouTube channel.

[7] All of her links are in the description box below this video.

[8] So please...

[9] support her important work.

[10] Now, I was thinking, you know, when we found out that Juliet is in HMP Peterborough, I was thinking, hold on a minute.

[11] I spoke to someone who was in it.

[12] It was Gemma.

[13] So Fran came on last night, if you didn't see it, who was sentenced to 11 years in the UK prison system.

[14] She answered a lot of questions about what Juliet is going through.

[15] But Fran had never actually served time in HMP Peterborough were Julia is housed.

[16] So get your questions in, folks, about Julia being in HMP Peterborough.

[17] If you are watching this on YouTube, in the description box right now, it has Julia's address.

[18] So I spoke to Sinclair, a media representative.

[19] I've spoke to HMP Peterborough, the prison.

[20] And all they'll do is give you instructions.

[21] on how to write a letter in we don't have a prison number yet and the lady said at the prison you put the person's name date of birth and then the hmp peterborough address which is exactly what i have put in the description box below this video so people are already starting to write there's also a facebook group for juliet it's called free julia there was 43 people on it yesterday morning there's almost 2 000 now And I'll put the link for the Julia Facebook group in the live chat as well as in the description box.

[22] So there it is.

[23] So, Gemma, how long were you in HMP Peterborough for?

[24] I was in there for 12 months.

[25] I was sentenced to 2 .5 years.

[26] So I was in there for 12 months.

[27] As you know, I went in there pregnant.

[28] So I was on the...

[29] in the general population for around three and a half months and then did the rest on the mother and baby unit because there's a mother and baby unit in HMP Peterborough as well and there is a picture of it on the screen it says Sodexo so does that mean that it is a private prison it is a private prison yes and to be fair it's one of the nicer ones it's very clean or it was when I was in there yeah it's a little bit cleaner and nicer than the state -run prisons however it's a little bit more strict it's more strict okay yeah and what what um year was it you were there i was in 2009 to 2010 okay all right so lots of questions are coming in already i'm gonna i'm gonna um keep the questions pending but put them in the chat folks i'll log them If I do miss your question, just repeat it.

[30] Don't worry about repeating your question in the chat because it might catch my eye.

[31] But what we're going to do first is we're going to go over the HMP Peterborough website and we're going to look at, you know, about mailing stuff to Julia, about visiting Julia, and then we'll go for the broader questions.

[32] So I've started out talking about, you know, giving...

[33] the address out for people to send letters to Julia Gemma.

[34] And I've warned people, don't put anything else in the envelope.

[35] Is that correct?

[36] Could that cause problems if people start putting...

[37] People are saying they want to put cash in, they want to send toiletries.

[38] You can't do that, can you?

[39] You can't send toiletries.

[40] Now, they say you can't send cash in, but my grandma used to send me cash in in a letter.

[41] As long as you have to put your name and address on the back of the envelope, otherwise they won't get the cash.

[42] So they have to know who has sent the cash.

[43] But usually you're supposed to use a postal order.

[44] And there's also now there's the online system.

[45] So as soon as anyone gets her prison number, they can transfer credit money over to her on the Internet rather than sending cash in an envelope.

[46] All right, let's go over this more slowly because I've been telling people all day, do not put anything in the envelope.

[47] And you're saying that if they put cash in the envelope, they must do an additional thing, which is?

[48] Put their name and address on the back of the envelope so that the prison know who has sent that money.

[49] Right.

[50] So if you are sending cash in an envelope to Julia in a letter, you must put your name, An address, I assume.

[51] Yes.

[52] On the back of the envelope, or else what will happen?

[53] That cash will disappear?

[54] Yeah, the cash will disappear, yeah.

[55] Wow.

[56] Yeah.

[57] But the jail prefers people to send in postal orders, did you say?

[58] Postal orders, yeah.

[59] I mean, it used to be like that back in the day, so I presume it's still the same.

[60] All right, Gemma.

[61] For people in America, can you explain what a postal order is?

[62] So you will go to your local postal office and you will transfer your cash money into a postal order that it's like a check and then the prison will process it as money.

[63] All right.

[64] So if you are in the States, you're not going to be able to obtain a postal order in the UK sense of the word, which is going to be...

[65] in british pounds so don't run out to your post offices in america and start sending julia um some kind of dollar checks from your post offices because they will be classified as contraband yeah and and and they will be returned so this postal order thing is only going to work if you are in the uk yes so is there anything else people can put in letters to prisoners stamps stamps yeah so british stamps yeah and with the british stamps is it the case that you have to put your name and address the sender's name address on the back of the envelope otherwise they will go missing yeah because you've got to think we're in spice area now you can put spice on paper and um stamps i guess so it will have to be checked by sniffer dogs and stuff to make sure there's nothing on it what what year was it you were in there again i was in there 2009 to 2010 all right so folks um some people are saying that the system has changed since then okay and um no there are no postal orders or cash allowed these days so let's just they've always said that they've always said that though but you can All right.

[66] You can sneak a bit of cash into the envelope.

[67] It does get through.

[68] All right.

[69] Let's play it safe for now.

[70] Okay.

[71] And we'll find out more.

[72] But you can definitely send a letter to her.

[73] Let's see.

[74] She can't have cash or post lot.

[75] It's pay online via pay a prisoner.

[76] Yeah.

[77] She's only allowed £40 a week.

[78] This is a fact.

[79] This woman knows.

[80] All right.

[81] So, yeah.

[82] So.

[83] it seems that things may have changed and you can go to pay online via pay a prisoner only.

[84] All right.

[85] So we will, we will go further into the website right now.

[86] Yeah.

[87] This part was just to cover what you could send Julia.

[88] And we know for a fact you can send a letter and you probably shouldn't put anything in the envelope.

[89] Well, all right, let's, let's keep going.

[90] So, um, about the prison, click on about the prison.

[91] Um, that's, that's the young offenders one.

[92] Our mother and baby unit offers a positive environment where the bond between mother and baby can develop while women complete their sentence or while they are held on remand.

[93] The department is led by functional head Charlotte Doyle, who is responsible for the families and significant other's strategy.

[94] I'm only reading that because Gemma's story, she was in the mother and baby unit and she ends up with a bad situation with an officer, a male officer, and tomorrow Gemma is coming back on the channel.

[95] At 2pm UK.

[96] To tell the full story.

[97] Of giving birth.

[98] In prison.

[99] And being on the mother and baby unit.

[100] And Jen.

[101] My partner is going to be co -hosting.

[102] That interview.

[103] And I will be taking care.

[104] Of baby Ziggy.

[105] So alright.

[106] So let's go over to.

[107] Visiting next then.

[108] Visiting the prison.

[109] So I did once visit.

[110] A female in HMP Peterborough.

[111] This was many, many years ago.

[112] I don't know if the visitation rules and stuff have changed, but I'll read you what it says.

[113] Our visit halls are bright and airy, providing you with a space to relax and enjoy spending time with your loved one.

[114] Refreshments are available to purchase from the tea bars that are available in both our male and female visit halls.

[115] Payment is by cash only.

[116] You could take a maximum of £30 up to your visit with you.

[117] Find a prisoner.

[118] If you are unsure which establishment a prisoner is located or to confirm an individual's details, please use the prisoner location service.

[119] Our general inquiries line is not able to provide this information.

[120] So I called the general inquiries line.

[121] to establish exactly what you need to put on an envelope to send a letter to Julia.

[122] And all that is in the description box below this video.

[123] It's basically the prisoner's name, date of birth, and then the prison address.

[124] And when we get Julia's prison number, we'll switch the date of birth out for Julia's prison number.

[125] All right.

[126] Please also remember that a prisoner must give permission for the information to be shared.

[127] Details about the social, friends and family, legal and official, residents who do not receive social visits.

[128] Allowed.

[129] All right, so, Gemma.

[130] Yeah.

[131] People are thinking maybe they can just show up at the prison and visit.

[132] That's not the case, is it?

[133] What's the protocol?

[134] So, Julia will have to send a visiting order out.

[135] They will have to, and then it has to go through that process of them sending it back or booking it in.

[136] There's a whole process, so you can't just turn up.

[137] and, you know, think that you're going to get into the prison.

[138] She will be able to have more visits as she's on remand.

[139] So she would be able to send out a certain amount of VOs.

[140] I think it's six when you're on remand.

[141] So that's just the whole visit and order process of sending it out and booking the visit that way.

[142] And I think then they have to ring up and book the visit.

[143] All right, so...

[144] Are you saying then there's a limit to how many people you can have on your visitation list?

[145] No, I don't think there's a limit, but you could only have so many people come at one time.

[146] And that's a maximum of six?

[147] You get six visiting orders, so she can have six visits, and I think it's a maximum of three people per visit.

[148] I see.

[149] Do you know roughly what the visitation hours used to be?

[150] It's a two -hour visit.

[151] It should be.

[152] That's what it used to be back in the day, a two -hour visit.

[153] All right.

[154] And when she puts you on her visitation list, do they do background checks on the person who's applying to be the visitor?

[155] No. Because in America, it got really strict over the time I was there, whereby...

[156] they were doing more and more serious checks on people visiting prisoners and stopping a lot of people from coming in, especially if you had a criminal record and you were trying to visit someone in prison.

[157] But are you saying when you were inside, nothing like that applied?

[158] Only if there was people on the no contact list.

[159] So obviously the McCann's will be no contact, so she won't be able to write to them and she'll be in breach if she writes to them.

[160] But anybody that's not on the no contact list will be able to come in.

[161] Or should be able to come in.

[162] Yeah.

[163] All right.

[164] And Deborah's added, once you are registered as a visitor, you can go online and book a visit.

[165] You can book up to three as they often cancel them.

[166] Warning, they can also delay your time and not make it up.

[167] So is there a possibility, Gemma, that people could travel all the way to Peterborough expecting a visit?

[168] and prison could be locked down or anything could happen, and they might not actually get in to see Julia?

[169] That's always a possibility.

[170] I wasn't aware of the online system now.

[171] So maybe they could have possibly scrapped the visit in order system, but the regular paper, you know, back in the day you used to send out a paper VO, it's called, visit in order, and then your visitor would ring up and book the visit over the phone.

[172] So now I presume it's done online.

[173] I suppose it's still done over the phone as well because not everybody can access online, you know, older people that can't use.

[174] That's why I was saying it's still a possibility that the money can get through because older generation can't use the internet.

[175] Yeah, we had a lady just put a comment up and she's been corresponding with Kevin Lane, another one of our podcast guests, saying that she has managed to get stamps and other things through the mail.

[176] Yes, exactly.

[177] That's what I was saying earlier.

[178] Yeah, I think for the younger generation, they presume you can't do that.

[179] But for people like myself, we've got a lot of older family members.

[180] So my grandma would always put me a packet of stamps in and a £20 note and she used to write her name and address on the back of the envelope and it always got through.

[181] I'm not saying that's going to be the case now.

[182] So it's up to you if you want to risk your money going to the prison for Julia.

[183] But I do know it does get through.

[184] Well, most of the time for me. All right.

[185] So I'm going to go into more detail about the visits.

[186] This is what it says on HMP Peterborough website.

[187] Visits must be booked by the prisoner via our internal process.

[188] And they must ensure that anyone they wish to visit them is registered on the approved visitors list.

[189] Social visits are offered during the week from Monday to Thursday in the afternoon.

[190] Please note that social visits are not available on a Friday.

[191] Female prisoners can book a two -hour visit session from 2pm till 4pm.

[192] This is available Monday to Thursday, Saturday and Sunday.

[193] Then there's the male prisoners thing.

[194] I'm not going to read that.

[195] It doesn't apply here.

[196] Visits will begin and end promptly.

[197] So please make sure that you are on time for your session.

[198] All right, so...

[199] Visits must be booked by the prisoner via our internal process, and they must ensure that anyone they wish to visit them is registered on their approved visits list.

[200] So to get all that in motion then, Gemma, for example, I want to visit Julia.

[201] Julia presently doesn't have my address or my information.

[202] So it's the first step for me to just write to Julia saying, here's my name, here's my address, put me on your...

[203] Yes, and send me a visiting order.

[204] Because going off that, it's saying it needs to be done by the internal system.

[205] So I presume she needs to send a VO out.

[206] So a VO is a visiting order.

[207] It used to be a blue piece of paper where she will fill out Sean Atwood address, et cetera, and so on.

[208] And then you would ring the prison or maybe you book it online now.

[209] And then you request your time and get to the prison promptly.

[210] before you know it starts don't get there late otherwise they won't let you in oh my goodness you've got off an app as well all right prisoners can book a session through the internal booking system please please note that to participate in a purple visit session you must first download the app to your mobile device not laptop to enable the booking to be confirmed To download the app, please visit.

[211] So purple visits, is that an in -person or is that an online visit?

[212] I have no idea, Sean.

[213] I can't answer that question, I'm afraid.

[214] There was none of this when I was there, online visits or anything like that.

[215] Can't answer that one.

[216] Because it says you've got social visits.

[217] Yeah.

[218] And then it says there's legal visits.

[219] And then it says there's purple visits.

[220] I couldn't answer that.

[221] What are...

[222] Purple Prison Visits.

[223] Yeah, so Purple Visits is a secure video calling service that allows people to connect with prisoners in secure environments.

[224] It is designed to be more cost -effective and convenient than visiting in person.

[225] Well, this is good because that means if you're in America, You could do a purple visit with Julia.

[226] How do purple visits work?

[227] Users can request a video call through the purple visits app.

[228] The app is available on iOS and Android devices.

[229] The service uses military -grade encryption to secure calls.

[230] Users can call from anywhere with reliable broadband or 4G connection.

[231] Who can use purple visits?

[232] All callers must be on the prisoner's visitor list.

[233] The main caller must be over 18.

[234] Up to four people can be on the call.

[235] Benefits of purple visits.

[236] Allows people to stay connected with loved ones.

[237] Helps to reduce travel and childcare costs.

[238] Can be used when visiting in person would be impossible.

[239] How to request a Purple Visit.

[240] Open the Purple Visit app.

[241] Select the requested video call tab.

[242] Choose a contact.

[243] Select a date and time slot.

[244] This is secure video calling from the comfort of your own home, which is great.

[245] That's fantastic.

[246] Times have changed.

[247] They certainly have, haven't they?

[248] Yeah.

[249] Let me go back to...

[250] All right.

[251] What to work for your visit?

[252] Please make sure that you come to the prison dressed appropriately for your visit.

[253] We have a dress code for visitors to help to keep everyone safe, as well as maintaining decency in front of others, including children.

[254] And here's the guides for the dress code.

[255] Yeah.

[256] Did you get visits, Gemma, in prison?

[257] I did.

[258] And the dress code applies to both prisoner and visitor.

[259] So if you turn up to your visit in a low -cut top, they will refuse you to go in.

[260] Right.

[261] I remember they were sweating my mum because she was showing her collarbone trying to visit me in America.

[262] Wow.

[263] Yeah.

[264] Yeah.

[265] So strict.

[266] If you get like a snidey officer.

[267] Yeah.

[268] They can really just lay the law down on you.

[269] Oh, they will.

[270] They love it.

[271] Power hungry.

[272] Yeah.

[273] And how important are visits to prisoners, Gemma?

[274] Oh, so important.

[275] So important.

[276] And back in the day, I don't know what it's like now, but if your family member forgot the VO, which was the piece of paper that the prisoner sends out, then they wouldn't let you in the visit.

[277] And I remember my mum travelled two and a half hours from where...

[278] i was from she forgot the vo and they wouldn't let her in so but but they are so important that it's a saving grace it really is a saving grace having a visit if you don't have a visit i mean i was in there with people that didn't get visits and oh they were so miserable they were so miserable and you almost felt guilty going for your visit knowing that they weren't going to get a visit so they are vital visits are vital to prisoners And how nice is it to receive something in the mail?

[279] Oh, it's brilliant.

[280] I can't explain the sound of the prison officers chucking it under your cell door and you can just hear the envelope go, and you're like, yes, I've got a bit of mail.

[281] It's like Christmas.

[282] It is like Christmas.

[283] So Fran, hello, Fran.

[284] She's just put something in the chat that she will book it in the pod system in the...

[285] So it must be done by computers now.

[286] Fran is the prison pro.

[287] She knows more than me because she got out later than me. So there must be a computer system then in there, and that's how she'll book the visits.

[288] And then you'll have to do it on the phone as well, I guess.

[289] And if you've just tuned in, folks, we've got Gemma, who spent time in HMP Peterborough, which is presently housing Julia Vandelt.

[290] So Gemma's sharing her knowledge of that establishment with us.

[291] We had Fran on last night.

[292] She's just put another comment.

[293] Purple visits came out because we couldn't see our family in COVID.

[294] It's just like a FaceTime.

[295] Wow.

[296] And I'm going to go over the female dress code for visitors.

[297] And then we're going to ask Gemma about phone calls.

[298] Please make sure your clothing is appropriate for a family -friendly environment.

[299] Tops need to cover your chest, back, and midriff.

[300] And clothing should not have any gang logos, racist slogans, or language that may be considered offensive or derogatory.

[301] You must only wear one pair of trousers at a time.

[302] Shorts and skirts should be no shorter than mid -thigh.

[303] Your clothing must allow staff to carry out appropriate searches without difficulty or causing you discomfort.

[304] So the visitors get searched coming in, do they, Gemma?

[305] They do.

[306] You have to leave your mobile phone and keys and stuff like that in a little safe.

[307] And then you'll just take your money in there for the visitor's shop to get your candy and your drinks.

[308] And yeah, that's about it, really.

[309] Oh, and then you get searched.

[310] So you'll get a pat down and then you'll get swiped with the scanner.

[311] All right, so £30 they're allowed to bring in.

[312] Yeah.

[313] And that can be spent, was it a shop?

[314] It's not like you don't need coins for a machine, a vending machine.

[315] It's a little tuck shop.

[316] So you can just bring pound notes for that.

[317] Yeah, and then they'll give you change.

[318] All right, that's good to hear because in America they had to bring in coins.

[319] All right, so for females, boots should be no higher than ankle length.

[320] No metal hair accessories.

[321] No sunglasses.

[322] Jewelry should be kept to a minimum.

[323] So items in a locker prior to your visit.

[324] So if people bring things in by accident, they're allowed to put them in a locker.

[325] They won't get sent back out of the prison.

[326] Is that the case?

[327] Yeah, pretty much.

[328] Yeah.

[329] No visible or exposed underwear.

[330] No smart watches or fitness trackers.

[331] No shorts that are shorter than mid.

[332] thigh length, no mini skirt, short dresses, skirts, unless worn with leggings, no bags, including handbags.

[333] Please stoke in a locker before you visit.

[334] And then they add this list is not exhaustive.

[335] Yeah.

[336] Yeah.

[337] Just wear jeans and a jumper.

[338] You'll be fine.

[339] And then for men who are going as visitors, make sure your clothing is appropriate for family friendly environment.

[340] Tops need to cover your chest back and midriff.

[341] No gang logos, racist slogans, language that may be offensive.

[342] You must only wear one put of trousers at a time.

[343] Shorts and skirts.

[344] That's the female one, but it's got the male picture.

[345] Your clothing must allow staff to carry out appropriate searches without difficulty or causing you discomfort.

[346] And no hat scarves or head coverings that are not worn on religious grounds.

[347] No shades.

[348] jewelry kept to a minimum, store items in the locker, no muscle vests, burr chests, or ripped tops, no offensive or football slogans on clothing, no large buckle belts, no smart watches, fitness trackers, no ripped damaged clothing, including ripped jeans, no steel toe cap, shoes, boots, or motorcycle shoes.

[349] This list is not exhaustive.

[350] Oh, goodness me. All right, so that's the dress code.

[351] That's the visit.

[352] Yeah.

[353] And then it does tell you how to send money here.

[354] To send money to a prisoner, you will need to visit www .gov. You know what, folks?

[355] I'm going to put the link in the description box for this live stream right now.

[356] Where is it?

[357] It's going to say HMP Peterborough link.

[358] And then you guys can all read over this.

[359] HMP prison link.

[360] I'll put HMP prison link.

[361] And you guys can all read over this.

[362] Go over it with a fine tooth comb.

[363] Because the thing is, I know a lot of you have got great intentions right now to write to Julia, to visit Julia, to have phone calls with Julia.

[364] When the Stephen Avery -Brendan Dassey case came out, making a murderer, thousands of people wrote to Stephen and Brendan without putting the prison number on the envelope, and they all got returned.

[365] So one of the first videos I did on that case was how to write to Brendan Dassey and Stephen Avery.

[366] And I've personally, if you're just tuning in, I've personally spoke to the prison in Julius House today, and they've said they wouldn't give me the prison number.

[367] They just said put the date of birth.

[368] under her name and then the address and if you just tuned in all the information is in the description box below this video so to send money to a prisoner you will need to visit gov uk send prisoner money was that the case when you were in there jemma sorry repeat that last bit so it says here to send money to a prisoner you will need to visit gov .uk send prisoner money no that's that's a new thing that's a new thing but you can't do that unless you've got a prisoner prison number So you cannot send her any money online via this Gov website until you've got her prison number.

[369] All right.

[370] And also, if you are not able to send money online, you will need to complete an application to send money through the post.

[371] So Gemma was right.

[372] You can send money through the post.

[373] It's confirmed here on the website.

[374] But you have to complete an application.

[375] And on the prison website, that is the application.

[376] Oh, it's there then.

[377] There you go.

[378] Yeah.

[379] Exemption request form.

[380] Apply to send money through the post.

[381] If you can't send money online and need to send money, you can use this form to apply to the prison for an exemption.

[382] Send this fully completed form.

[383] Let me make this bigger for people.

[384] Send this fully completed form along with necessary proof.

[385] to the prison addressed to the finance department at HMP Peterborough.

[386] Do not send any money to the prison until you have your exemption letter.

[387] So if you want to do it, buy the book, folks.

[388] Yeah.

[389] You are going to have to.

[390] I'm not even sure, am I?

[391] There it is.

[392] There's the form.

[393] Do that.

[394] It should come up right now.

[395] So here is the form.

[396] It says to the governor, it is my only option to send money to a prisoner by post.

[397] And you might find if you are overseas.

[398] That is extremely difficult to send money online because it was extremely difficult for me to send money online to prisoners in America from the UK.

[399] Because to register, you have to have a zip code and you don't even have a zip code.

[400] And it only gave options for the states.

[401] You couldn't register an address.

[402] for england so we also need to find out whether if you put money in the post it's got to be in the the british pound currency which i'm i'm pretty sure it has so if you are in america and you want to send money to julia you're gonna have to fill out this form you're gonna have to get your dollars changed into british pounds and send julia british pounds i i don't see There's any chance in hell a prison is going to accept US dollars.

[403] So they want the name, they want your name, your address, prisoner's name, prisoner's date of birth and prison number.

[404] We do not have the prison number yet.

[405] We hope to have it by tomorrow.

[406] Choose either A or B. I want some money by cash or postal order.

[407] Do you have access to a debit card or check?

[408] Just sign that if you're in America.

[409] We know you can't do a post -load of America either because it's going to be in dollars.

[410] Account refusal, proof, blah, blah, blah.

[411] I cannot use the digital service and want to send money by check because I live overseas is probably going to be the correct answer because I couldn't sign up for it to send money overseas to American prisoners.

[412] All right.

[413] So that's the money situation covered.

[414] You know, I'm learning this as I go as well.

[415] Things have changed due to technology.

[416] Things have changed drastically because of the pandemic, apparently.

[417] And that's something I've just learned, this purple visits thing.

[418] We encourage you to keep in touch via telephone using the email or prisoner service and by letter.

[419] So keeping in touch by telephone, Gemma, when you were in, what did that involve?

[420] So when Julia went for processing, when she got to the prison, if she could remember phone numbers off the top of her head, they would put them on a list and register them under a PIN number.

[421] And then eventually Julia will get that PIN number and then she can use the communal phone.

[422] She'll type the PIN number in first and then the number that she wishes to ring.

[423] But should she not be able to remember any phone numbers, she's going to have to wait.

[424] between one and two weeks until a member from the link team, which is another prisoner, come round to her wing, get her numbers off her, then they take them back to the office, they register them, and it can take one or two weeks, Sean.

[425] I had to wait two weeks until I could use the phone.

[426] Oh, my goodness.

[427] Yeah.

[428] And it's Catch -22, isn't it?

[429] Because they confiscated Julia's phone when she was arrested.

[430] yeah i i went to that one of the local police stations here to find out if she was there and they said to me we can't give you any information unless she has registered you as her contact person and i was thinking well how is she going to register me as a contact person if she doesn't have my information because you've taken her phone so they put people in this this situation where it's difficult to communicate with the outside world from the get -go Yeah, absolutely.

[431] It's not there to help you, that's for sure.

[432] Yeah, they like to make your life as difficult.

[433] But that's prison and that's the police station.

[434] You know, it's not supposed to be the Savoy, I guess.

[435] So we have to kind of put up with it.

[436] And I know it's not right, but...

[437] So it's going to be a matter of time before visits and phone calls are established, folks.

[438] The only thing we've established today...

[439] is that you can write to her using her date of birth and the address because we don't know her prison number yet.

[440] Visitors are not permitted to bring vapes or any vape -related products into the establishment.

[441] All items need to be stored in lockers prior to entering the main prison.

[442] All right, so I think we've covered.

[443] Oh, yeah.

[444] ID.

[445] There is a checklist to bring the correct ID with your visitors.

[446] The requirements have changed.

[447] Let me see.

[448] All right, so if you want to visit Julia, you must bring one form of photo ID from list A below.

[449] Let me see if I make this bigger.

[450] There we go.

[451] If you are unable to provide any of these items, you must bring one document from list B plus one from list C. Visitors under 16 must be accompanied by an adult, must provide the required forms of ID.

[452] Company has responsibility for the child and for giving assurances of the child's identity.

[453] List A, bring one.

[454] Passport, identity card from the EU, UK photo card, driving license, EU, EEA, driving license, NI, electronic identity card, US passport card, proof of age card, armed forces identity card, UK biometric residence permit.

[455] All right, so you must bring one from list A. Yeah.

[456] If you're unable to, you must bring one from B and C. All right, so A covers it.

[457] If you've got A, you're in.

[458] Yeah, one.

[459] If not, you've got to have one from B and C. B, home office travel document, older person's bus pass, freedom pass, proof of age card, and then C, birth or adoption certificate, educational certificate, rental or purchase agreement for residential property, marriage or civil partnership certificate, bank building site, equivalent union, current account card that shows your identity.

[460] Wow.

[461] Official visitors.

[462] All right, we don't need to get into that.

[463] All right, so we've spent 40 minutes now going over the main things.

[464] I'm just going to get rid of that.

[465] Gemma's come on to share her knowledge and experience of what HMP Peterborough is actually like.

[466] So, Gemma, arriving at HMP Peterborough, how was that?

[467] Yeah.

[468] It was all right for me, but it'll be a little bit worse for Julia because Julia will probably be expected to do a strip search.

[469] But because I was pregnant, I avoided the strip search.

[470] So she would have had to have a strip search.

[471] And then we are granted some food, depending on the time.

[472] A prisoner that works the office, so to speak, the check -in area, will offer you some food.

[473] This is a microwaved meal, so it's...

[474] a piece of fish sometimes and a few fries which is rock solid because it's been microwaved or you might get curry if you want curry but you know what it's like when the plastic is melted in the microwave and yeah it's just really awful and then they will take you to have a medical check where you'll Say if you've got any allergies or any illnesses or any mental health problems or you're feeling a little bit blue, they can give you a welfare check.

[475] And then that's it.

[476] Then they'll cart you off to health care wing where you'll spend your first night in prison, which is this is just a little tiny little wing separate from the general population.

[477] And it's just why they check you in, see which wing is best for you, if they can put you on a main wing.

[478] straight away or they'll put you on an induction wing depending on how high profile the prisoner is with julia being so high profile i don't know if she will get shipped straight onto a main wing but for most people you go onto the induction wing which is usually a wing i think it's a1 or a2 it used to be a2 i think on the bottom deck so that's your induction wing and that's where you'll spend the majority of time until they find you a long -term wing.

[479] So I was on a wing for about four or five days.

[480] And then that's when they shipped me onto a long -term wing.

[481] Yeah.

[482] And the big question from the viewers and Fran, you know, touched on this last night and you did because she is so high profile, you know, in people.

[483] are judged on the nature of their crimes.

[484] And, you know, a lot of people are outraged that Maddie McCann was left on that night.

[485] So they've got, you know, there might be sympathy for Julia because Julia is this person who's struggling with her identity.

[486] And that hits home for you as well, doesn't it, Gemma?

[487] It really does, because my mum was adopted.

[488] She was dumped in an orphanage in 1968 from birth.

[489] She was only a couple of hours old.

[490] And then she wasn't adopted until she was around 17 months to two years.

[491] And she, well, it was the trauma she carried until she overdosed on the kitchen floor, unfortunately.

[492] And she just never knew who she was.

[493] There was, you know, a conspiracy that her dad is a traveller man. And her mum didn't just do this once.

[494] She did this with several children.

[495] She had one every year and put them all in the orphanage.

[496] You know what it was like back in the day?

[497] You have a child out of wedlock, you get dumped in the orphanage.

[498] And she carried that.

[499] And she used to even say to me, at least you know who your parents are.

[500] And she said, you'll never understand what I'm going through.

[501] And I used to think, you know, I don't understand.

[502] But now I do, now I'm older, I really understand and just I can't imagine what it's like not to know your roots, where you came from, you know, because even now I'm thinking, well, who are my grandparents, you know?

[503] Even I don't know where I really come from.

[504] Well, that was exactly the case with my mum, Gemma.

[505] The Catholic Church told her mum that she would burn in hell if she had a baby out of wedlock and she was jilted on the altar.

[506] And she didn't want to give my mum up.

[507] And it was reading my mum's book, The Blue Plastic Cow, the journey that she went through, spending decades trying to find her natural parents.

[508] It caused my mum to have anxiety and depression to the point where she wanted to jump off the local bridge in my town.

[509] Yeah, and really, really caused a lot of...

[510] So my point here is, we understand what's motivated Julia to try and find out who she is.

[511] Yeah.

[512] And Julia is such a good communicator.

[513] When she gets into the prison, the prisoners are obviously going to ask the story, you know, Julia, what the hell's happened here?

[514] Everyone will be all over her.

[515] They're asking her what led to this.

[516] I think so.

[517] I think she's going to be very popular.

[518] You're going to have your odd bully and you're going to have...

[519] a couple of predators that are going to hot her up for her items because they're going to think she's rich because she's been in the press or she's been on a podcast so they're naturally going to think she's famous she's got money so there will be a few prisoners that are going to hot her up and bully her for her items so i hope she's got the sense to say no straight away because as soon as you say yes then everybody will run rings around you so i'm hoping she can be strong and say you know no straight away a lot of prisoners i think will just take her in You know, they'll be kind because if they sit and listen to her, they'll understand where she's coming from too.

[520] You know, it's going to be a mixed bag, Sean.

[521] You can't predict it.

[522] There's going to be bullies.

[523] There's going to be people that are going to be a friend.

[524] And there's going to be people that use her.

[525] And there's going to be people that want to know her story to run it when they get out.

[526] So it's just going to be a mixed bag for her.

[527] So if Julie had come to you...

[528] before this had happened and said, can you give me some advice on how I should behave when I'm going in?

[529] Or if someone was listening to this right now with a contraband phone, for example, what would you say to Julia?

[530] She's got to be stern.

[531] You've got to show face.

[532] You've got to make sure that they know you're not scared.

[533] So I went in there full of bravado.

[534] And my true friends, my uni girl that was fresh out of uni that ended up there when she shouldn't have done, she could see through my bravado, but the jokers and the fakes and the frauds, they won't, you know.

[535] So you just have to show face.

[536] And I remember this one girl that was a substance user tried to hop me up for my top.

[537] And I said, if you ask me again, I will knock you out.

[538] Now, I know that's not very good, but you have to be stern.

[539] You have to be stern.

[540] So I would say to anybody, you've got to be stern.

[541] Obviously, don't let the officers hear you say that or you'll be on an icking, but...

[542] Is it in those first few days, if you show weakness, you're going to carry that with you for the rest of your time?

[543] Yes, yes, yeah.

[544] You have to set the tone from the minute you get in there.

[545] You have to set the tone.

[546] Otherwise, you'll just get walked all over.

[547] Yeah.

[548] Did you see people who got walked over or bullied or victimised?

[549] Yes, mainly on the young offenders, there was a young girl that was severely bullied and she, you know, she suffered with a mental health, but she was just naturally weak.

[550] And the, well, the young girls terrorised her.

[551] They even weed through wee on her, urine, sorry.

[552] They put hair removal cream in her shampoo bottle.

[553] I don't think it did much because she was in the shower, but still, you know, it's still bullying, isn't it?

[554] Yeah.

[555] They ripped all the posters down off of a wall.

[556] Yeah, they did lots of nasty stuff.

[557] But as for the adults, I didn't see too much bullying from the adult section.

[558] But on the young offenders wing, how old is Julia?

[559] Well, she would not be on the young offenders.

[560] 23, I think.

[561] Yeah, so she'll be in the adult wing.

[562] And it all depends what wing she goes on.

[563] They could put her, because the situation, you know, it's clear that she's vulnerable.

[564] Yeah.

[565] And she does suffer with her mental health due to being adopted and other contributing factors, as we know.

[566] I mean, I've heard SA is a part of that as well, is it?

[567] So they could put her on the vulnerable wing, which is C wing, where they house vulnerable inmates, pregnant inmates and child unalivers, so to speak.

[568] So if she's on that wing, it's pretty calm.

[569] But if she goes on D wing.

[570] that's a different story.

[571] That's a different ballgame.

[572] That's where you've got your vicious fighty prisoners.

[573] Every wing's different.

[574] Then you've got your high dependency wing, which is your substance use as well.

[575] She's not going to be on there.

[576] And yes, like I say, it's just all depends on the wing she gets on.

[577] Now, one of the ways I fit in was through my education.

[578] I was reading the legal paperwork.

[579] I was helping the Mexicans write home in Spanish.

[580] Julia speaks multiple languages.

[581] She's researched.

[582] the hell out of her case for years and she's got like the qualifications of a private investigator just that she's done through her own basic um she's out qualified a private investigator that's what I'm trying to say in the works that she's done on her own case so do you think that is one of the ways that she could fit in is by helping the prisoners because a third of the prisoners couldn't read all right where I was housed is is it like that in in HMP Peterborough Yeah, absolutely.

[583] Yeah, a lot of the prisoners can't read or write.

[584] A lot of the travelling community that go to prison can't read or write either.

[585] So if there were some girls on remand that needed their paperwork looking at and going through, she would be the one to help them.

[586] And there's also...

[587] there's a good job in there for the more educated prisoners which i got and that was working in the link so you're helping people with get counseling sessions doing their appointments helping them leave the prison you know getting what they get them getting them what they need basically in appointments and extra numbers on their phone so she would be really good in that job and there's also why she's not got any numbers on her pin, there is a team up there called Hibiscus.

[588] They used to be called Hibiscus and they will let you ring other countries for free off the phone.

[589] So I'm hoping somebody guides her in the direction of this Hibiscus company.

[590] Now, is it the case that if you're from Poland and you're entering a prison in the UK, you would click up with the Polish population or is that far -fetched?

[591] No. If there's other Polish women in there, they will just instantly just talk Polish together.

[592] Yeah.

[593] So like the Vietnamese, they stuck together because they could, well, they could only speak their language because they were trafficked here, a lot of the Vietnamese girls when I was in there.

[594] So they would all stick together, speak their language.

[595] So anybody that spoke or was bilingual, let's say, would, you know, speak together in their own language because it's that little bit of home, you know.

[596] So I think if there is a Polish lady in there, she'll be on to a winner.

[597] They can communicate.

[598] You know what I mean?

[599] Yeah.

[600] Yeah.

[601] Is there any beefing between the domestic population and the foreign population?

[602] Not really.

[603] There wasn't when I was in there.

[604] Everyone mixed.

[605] Everyone mixed pretty well.

[606] Yeah, there wasn't really.

[607] any beef, any racial beef or anything like that.

[608] No, it was quite, yeah, quite mixed.

[609] Well, that's good because it's all like, in America, it's all warfare between all the different races.

[610] Totally different, isn't it?

[611] Yeah, totally different.

[612] Sounds like it's more relaxed here then.

[613] Yeah.

[614] For Julia.

[615] All right.

[616] So you took us through the induction then.

[617] And how long again does the induction last, did you say?

[618] The induction's about, it can be anything between an hour or two, and then you're taken to healthcare where you'll spend your first and only night.

[619] You're never usually in healthcare any longer than one night.

[620] And you'll probably be padded up with somebody because there's like a dorm where there's like loads, or there used to be loads of beds, and then you've got a little couple of single cells with double beds.

[621] Yeah, and then it all depends on...

[622] what wings she gets on like i said yeah that's it really that was the process pretty quick so what's the day -to -day routine what just settled into hmp peterborough i can't remember the times but if you haven't got a job you cannot leave your cell so you will be banged up until breakfast lunch and dinner and then eventually you'll get your recreation time in the evening so that's usually about an hour or two so your day consists of you'll get up Go down for breakfast or if you wanted to use, you know, one of the accessories, which is a hairdryer or the straighteners, you have to go to the office quickly before all the other girls go.

[623] Run down there.

[624] So for me, it was a choice of do you want breakfast or do you want to use the hair straighteners?

[625] So you get up, run to the office, either have the hair straighteners or either have your breakfast.

[626] So if you're going to have your breakfast, you'll get some cereal.

[627] and some milk but your milk you have to take it back to your cell and run a little bit of water in the sink to keep your milk cold so otherwise you're just drinking warm milk all day for your cups of tea now in HMP Peterborough you can't have a kettle Sean so you've got to go to the hot tap and fill up a flask so should you want a cup of tea or coffee now you should get a little tea pack when you first go in where you get a few tea bags some coffee and you've also got the chance to buy um like a pack with like chocolates in or you know just a little bit of canteen and but you have to pay for that back once your money starts coming in so she could have got one of those packs as well then you've got your lunch they'll bang you back up once you've had your breakfast i think you get about 20 minutes or you can take your breakfast back to your cell and eat it in your cell which i presume she'll probably do then you've got your lunch well you know peterborough has got men and women.

[628] So it's not mixed, but it's hot.

[629] The other side is men.

[630] Well, the men make the food, Sean.

[631] You can imagine what these men are doing in the cell, especially if they've not got a television.

[632] Can you imagine that?

[633] What they're doing, keeping themselves busy, right?

[634] And they're making our sandwiches and we've got to eat them sandwiches.

[635] So in the, you know, at lunchtime, you get this stale baguette.

[636] It's absolutely awful, Sean.

[637] You could honestly break a window with it, right?

[638] And it's either cheese, ham.

[639] or something else um and then you might i can't even remember if you get a packet of crisps and you get a box juice a little box juice like a orange or something and then in the evening you'll come out again for about half an hour get your dinner which consists of well you know it's like chicken but it looks like pigeon plain rice sweet corn the food is shocking unless you're pregnant you get a little bit extra so you get blue top milk um a yogurt and a bit more fruit.

[640] So you get a tiny bit extra when you're pregnant, but Julia is not going to enjoy the food.

[641] Let me tell you.

[642] No. All right.

[643] I'm just going to pause here and answer this question from Susie.

[644] What did Gemma go through?

[645] So Susie, we've done two podcasts with Gemma links are in the description box.

[646] We're focusing on Julia tonight, but Gemma is going to come back tomorrow with Jen, my partner at 2 PM and describe in detail, the story of being pregnant in prison.

[647] and giving birth.

[648] But just to give you a little summary of Gemma's backstory, Gemma as a young person has a horror story of the grooming gangs.

[649] It will make you want to throw up.

[650] But it didn't end.

[651] The horrors in Gemma's life didn't end when that ended.

[652] It just gets into one more and more darker and darker and darker situation after another.

[653] until it gets to the point where one of her abusers is coming to murder her, drops the knife, Gemma picks it up, tries to get in with it, and then Gemma is the one who ends up getting sent to prison for attempted unaliving.

[654] Is that a correct summary, Gemma?

[655] Yeah, I would say it's pretty much correct, yeah.

[656] And then when Gemma goes to prison, not only is there the pregnancy and the giving birth, There's a horror story of what happens with a male prison officer.

[657] The details of that one, all that's going to come tomorrow with Jen.

[658] I don't want to go off on a tangent here, but Gemma has been through absolute hell.

[659] And she's such a powerful speaker.

[660] She's been talking to Maggie Oliver.

[661] She's speaking out about these gangs that Keir Starmer is allegedly protecting.

[662] And she's at the forefront of supporting and helping other people who've been incarcerated females, especially, and working with them and getting out there and doing the talks.

[663] And she's on a real positive path.

[664] So support Gemma's work.

[665] All the links are in the description box.

[666] And so many questions are coming about Julie.

[667] I've lost track of it all now, but we're going to continue.

[668] what it's like settling into HMP Peterborough, which is where Julia is.

[669] If you've just tuned in, you're not familiar with what's happened with Julia.

[670] She was arrested a few days ago in Bristol, moved from Leicester, where the McCann's are based in that jurisdiction because of the four counts of the stalking and harassment.

[671] And now she's at HMP Peterborough, which is over by Cambridge Way, I believe, when I once visited it.

[672] She's pending more hearings now.

[673] We're trying to get her bailed out to my house.

[674] We're working on that.

[675] We'll see if that goes through.

[676] We're trying to get a hearing for next week where they can make a decision about that.

[677] But because she's a foreign national, when I was trying to get bailed out, they said, I know where we're letting Atwood out.

[678] He's from England.

[679] He'll bug her off back to England.

[680] He's a flight risk.

[681] They might hold that against Julia.

[682] But Gemma is here to share her wealth of information about HMP Peterborough.

[683] And we are talking presently about...

[684] getting settled in you just you just described the day -to -day what about um things like classes um education courses yeah so they've got a small amount of education there so you've got your mbq maths english things like that and they've got courses so um the freedom project if you've just come out of a domestic violence relationship strengthening families and communities to help you be a better parent maybe you've lost custody of your children you want to get them back and that really helps you in family court um you can train to be a nail technician so you can do nails in there you can do hair in there there's lots of things on offer and sometimes they'll have um ladies come in from the out that do indian head massages so if there's a few girls struggling they might got the opportunity to have like a therapy session and things like that so there is some things on offer but it's hard to get on there you know it's not easy because there's not a lot of spaces you know which ones did you enjoy the most I didn't do any of it.

[685] Oh, I did the Freedom Project.

[686] That wound me up.

[687] And I did the strengthening.

[688] Sorry, it did.

[689] Because they don't end on a high note, Sean.

[690] They never ended on a high note.

[691] So they put you through all this trauma.

[692] They go, oh, how bad was your relationship?

[693] Oh, this.

[694] Oh, that.

[695] And in the strengthening and families and communities, they said to me, Sean, draw a circle, right?

[696] And put all your family members that stick by you in this circle.

[697] I said, are you joking me?

[698] And I got up and I stormed out and said, I ain't got any family, you idiots.

[699] I said, you've just made me feel worse, thank you.

[700] So I stormed out, right?

[701] So you can imagine we're all temperamental in there.

[702] And then after I stormed out, this African woman stormed out.

[703] She was like, how dare they ask me that?

[704] I'm on immigration charges.

[705] I was like, I know, let's go.

[706] So, you know, this is why I'd love to get into prisons and introduce some kind of dance therapy.

[707] You know what I mean?

[708] Something to get your endorphins going and stuff.

[709] So I did those, but I didn't like them.

[710] But I really loved my job, Sean.

[711] So I was a link worker, right?

[712] I've got my card here.

[713] Do you want to see it?

[714] My little prison card.

[715] As long as it's not doxing yourself.

[716] No, it's not.

[717] It's fine.

[718] Okay.

[719] There are we.

[720] There.

[721] So that was my little work card, you see.

[722] I was a professional.

[723] I had a lanyard.

[724] I was one of the superior prisoners, right?

[725] But no, I loved it because all the prisoners used to come to the link for all their appointments and things like that.

[726] So I got to communicate with everybody and hear everybody's story.

[727] But then again, that's where Rekha Kamara -Baker came up there.

[728] And you all know what she did, don't you?

[729] No, the viewers, yeah, please go into it.

[730] Oh, right.

[731] OK, so Reca Kamari Baker was a high profile child, unaliver.

[732] Now, her and her husband had broken up.

[733] She wanted to get back at him.

[734] So she had the girls overnight, took these girls for a shopping trip to buy clothes, lured them into this false sense of security, then took them to a well -known grocery store.

[735] purchased a pack of kitchen knives, took her daughter's home with the knives that she'd purchased in their company, waited till they went to sleep, they were both in bed, and then she...

[736] Can I say that word?

[737] Unalived, yeah.

[738] Yeah, unalived them.

[739] Yeah, unalived them by using a weapon multiple times.

[740] multiple times.

[741] She came to the desk with a squeaky little voice.

[742] You'll have to do your research and I'll put the link in the comments when I get off this live.

[743] And she came and she went, hello, I'm here for my appointment.

[744] I said, no, you're not.

[745] No, you're not.

[746] And I had a big set too with her and I told her she better go and sit on the sofa and wait till the next free flow and not to come to the link while I was sitting there again.

[747] Now you might see that as bullying, Sean, but I don't deal with child unalivers.

[748] Anybody that hurts a child, an innocent child, no, I'm sorry.

[749] I'm not, you're not having any privileges when I'm there.

[750] Do you know what I mean?

[751] So she never left the wing when I was working that job.

[752] She never came to the link again.

[753] So she was one.

[754] I mean, we had them all in there.

[755] The Blue Lagoon murderers.

[756] One sec, one sec. Oh, sorry.

[757] Put a one in the chat if you approve of Gemma not giving any privileges to child unalive as in prison.

[758] Put a two in the chat if that was wrong of Gemma.

[759] Yeah.

[760] Blue Lagoon what?

[761] The Blue Lagoon Unalivers, sorry, should we say.

[762] Yeah, what was that one?

[763] Never heard of them.

[764] So these were, it was a family.

[765] I don't know if they were a family or a group of friends.

[766] And I think they were in Luton.

[767] They kept a man with autism, right?

[768] Severely autistic.

[769] And he was so lovely, Sean.

[770] So sweet.

[771] They kept him hostage and tortured him for, I think, even over a year.

[772] Right.

[773] And oh, goodness me. All to keep his state money.

[774] So his welfare money from the government.

[775] And then they tortured him that badly that he passed away.

[776] And then I think I thought they dismembered him.

[777] But my friend said, who I was in prison with, I was having a chat with her the other night.

[778] She said, no, they put his body in a car and then they pushed the car into the Blue Lagoon in Dunstable.

[779] So they were in there and they came into the.

[780] recreation yard and my friend said i'm not going near them i said i am i want to see what they like you know what i mean i wanted to pick up on their mentality and they were they were like they were just very quiet and very strange and well you know a little bit well low iq let's say right but it was like they'd never even done it they were just walking around normal oh honestly sean some of the people that were in there uh you know and again i mean you should have gone into into some more Yes, please.

[781] Yeah, so then my, as I've said on a previous podcast, my own ex's cousin, so the ex that I was in there for nearly unaliving him, right, his ex walked, I mean, his cousin walked through the door to the link, covered in burns.

[782] I thought, what in the hell is she doing here?

[783] She's a proper delinquent, the whole family are.

[784] And if they know what the family were like, I would have never gone anywhere near him, but I didn't.

[785] So I've waited till free flow.

[786] I've gone to call my mum off the communal phone.

[787] I said, mother, you know, what is she doing in here?

[788] She goes, you won't believe it.

[789] She's only set a house on fire and unalive two of her children just to wind her boyfriend up.

[790] Do you see what I mean?

[791] Another one.

[792] Another one, Sean.

[793] So I said, oh, my God.

[794] And I went around the whole prison.

[795] I told everybody what she did.

[796] And I was like, don't talk to her.

[797] Don't be friends with her.

[798] And she had to go back to the wing.

[799] So, yeah, put in the comments if you think that was a bad idea.

[800] You might think I'm a bully, but I don't deal with child unalivers.

[801] I just don't.

[802] Put a one in the chat if you approve of Gemma not giving child unalivers any privileges.

[803] Put a two if that's wrong.

[804] Yeah.

[805] I'm just trying to think.

[806] And then baby peas.

[807] Mum, she was on her way.

[808] I'd never crossed paths with...

[809] Baby P's mum, but she was going out as I was going in.

[810] Gemma, explain Baby P, the situation for the viewers.

[811] Oh, so Baby P was a toddler, a little boy, and they named him Baby P due to whatever reasons.

[812] And it was the mother, and I think her partner, brutalised this toddler for months and months and months until he passed away.

[813] He went to the hospital and he was admitted with multiple broken bones.

[814] Oh, gosh, Sean.

[815] I mean, they'll have to look it up if you Google Baby P. It's a horrendous story, it is.

[816] So she was in there.

[817] I don't know how they...

[818] Well, apparently she was in a blooming gay for the stay, Sean.

[819] She was in a lesbian relationship in there.

[820] Who on earth, yeah, would get with her?

[821] I can't remember who it was.

[822] She was another high -profile prisoner as well, and I can't remember.

[823] Was it Maxine Carr?

[824] I can't remember.

[825] Somebody got with her.

[826] Somebody had a relationship with her.

[827] And I just thought, what is wrong with these people?

[828] So you'll always find two wrongans that will stick together.

[829] And they're usually child unalivers or child.

[830] I don't know what word I can use, but they hurt children anyway.

[831] PDF files.

[832] Yes, that's the one.

[833] That's the one.

[834] PDF files.

[835] And then we had Sue Baker in there.

[836] Well, she she weren't too bad, Sue.

[837] She constructed the.

[838] um unaliving of her partner to get his life insurance and she orchestrated her sons into it but then it all went wrong she got caught the sons got caught and i think that was um the sherwood forest unaliving i think if you google that sue baker sherwood forest something like that so when i first went into c -wing my remote control didn't work for my television and It's like it's almost as if a famous person walks into your cell because you've seen him in the newspaper.

[839] You've seen him on the news.

[840] And then in pop Sue Baker unannounced to fix my remote.

[841] And I was just in shock, really.

[842] I was like, oh, wow.

[843] So she was the first unaliver that I met.

[844] But she was.

[845] She wasn't great.

[846] And then we had a another woman on the bottom deck who.

[847] was a unaliver.

[848] Again, same scenario.

[849] She unalived her partner with her sons.

[850] So again, and she was running, sure, her own business from her prison cell, believe it or not.

[851] And the business was, you won't believe it, smut mail.

[852] So it was like OF on paper.

[853] Yeah.

[854] So I don't know how she set it up.

[855] I think one of her friends set it up for her.

[856] and she was writing saucy letters to multiple men, and then they would send her money in return for these saucy letters.

[857] So, yeah, she had a little business going in there, and I thought, do you know what?

[858] Fair play.

[859] And I found it hilarious because she was sat in a wheelchair doing matchstick art, building this great big whopping boat out of matchsticks, and just writing all these saucy letters without a care in the world, and I just found it.

[860] intriguing.

[861] So yeah, she was another one.

[862] And yeah, that's about it really for the high profile prisoners, I'm afraid.

[863] So are they mixed into the general population?

[864] They don't get a prison of their own in the women's side.

[865] Sorry, say that again.

[866] You were breaking up, Sean.

[867] Are they not put into a prison of their own?

[868] They're mixed into general population.

[869] Yeah, so they're all in general population.

[870] You do have a lifers wing where, you know, your long stay prisoners are on there.

[871] So, yeah, but it's still mixed.

[872] Everybody's mixed.

[873] Everybody's everywhere.

[874] So there is a lifers wing, but not necessarily it will house all the lifers.

[875] You know, some of them will be on other wings.

[876] It all depends because you have to separate certain people as well.

[877] Right.

[878] OK.

[879] And viewers, did Gemma kind of like start freezing a little bit?

[880] Because I think someone's messing with your internet.

[881] You're clear now.

[882] But we've had strange things happen.

[883] They zapped my internet.

[884] They even told me while it was happening in the house.

[885] They can do attacks on your internet service provider and knock you off a live stream.

[886] Oh, really?

[887] Yeah, my internet service provider sent me emails confirming.

[888] direct service attacks on my internet during live streams.

[889] Oh, my goodness.

[890] Well, Matt, I've got the best internet going on this street, so I can't understand why.

[891] Yeah, you probably got zap.

[892] All right, so we talked about the educational opportunities.

[893] What about job opportunities for Julia?

[894] Will she be assigned work?

[895] Is it something you have to apply for, or do they just tell you you've got to go and...

[896] scrub toilets.

[897] How does it work?

[898] Yeah, they'll just come round.

[899] They'll assess what kind of prisoner you are.

[900] That's what they did with me anyway.

[901] And he said, I've got the perfect job for you.

[902] And that's why he gave me a good job because he knew I could read right and I was mildly educated.

[903] So they might see Julia and think, yeah, she'll be good in the link.

[904] But if not...

[905] Or if they want to keep her on the wing, they will give her a wing job.

[906] So that could be survey worker.

[907] So that's a cook.

[908] Or she could be washing everybody's clothes.

[909] So she could be a washerwoman.

[910] She could be in the gardens.

[911] She could work in education.

[912] She could be a wing cleaner.

[913] So that's mopping the floors and stuff.

[914] But they will assign her a job.

[915] Yeah, she doesn't get to choose.

[916] Are some jobs more coveted, like kitchen so you can steal food?

[917] Yeah, you can steal food in the survey, definitely.

[918] I knew the survey girls always were putting on weight every week because they'd have double bingo bars, which is your chocolate bar snack.

[919] You'd have double cake, double this, double pizza.

[920] Yeah, they got a bit chubby, the survey workers.

[921] So, you know, why are we having double portions?

[922] Yeah.

[923] What was your favourite job?

[924] Yeah, my favourite job was the link.

[925] I did apply to be a nail technician because I wanted to learn nails and you could do it in there.

[926] But you can imagine the waiting list, that never happened.

[927] So I got my nails done, but only once because that's a waiting list as well.

[928] So people, there's a silly girl that's come out at the moment and gone, oh, prison's like a holiday camp.

[929] And I stole 20K off a man with Alzheimer's.

[930] I don't know why she's admitted that.

[931] It is not like a holiday camp, Sean.

[932] Come on.

[933] It's like, I know you can get your nails done once, once in the whole year I was there, or you might get a haircut, but it's like, it's not every week.

[934] You know, it's, oh, it is, it's, Peterborough is not that bad, but prison just isn't fun.

[935] It's not fun.

[936] And I can't imagine what Julia's going through because she's not in her own country either, you know?

[937] So she's going to be distressed to an extent.

[938] So if Julia gets to sign a job in HMP Peterborough, Will she get paid?

[939] Yes.

[940] And how does that work?

[941] And what would levels of pay that you experience?

[942] I think for the week, I got £11 .25, I think.

[943] So your television, you have to pay for that.

[944] Your TV licence is 50p a week.

[945] And you'd be able to get your canteen out of that as well.

[946] So how many hours are you working to make that much?

[947] You do two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon, Sean.

[948] Yeah.

[949] Two hours in the morning and two hours in the afternoon?

[950] Yeah.

[951] And did you figure out the hourly rate on that?

[952] No, I haven't, actually.

[953] Get your calculator out.

[954] Because in Arizona, the most coveted jobs, the highest paid, were 50 cents an hour.

[955] Oh, wow.

[956] Which is like...

[957] What, about 40 pence?

[958] And the lowest paid jobs were like 10 cents an hour.

[959] Oh, wow.

[960] Oh, it's gut -wrenching, isn't it, when you know you're working for 10 cents an hour?

[961] Wow.

[962] Yep, yep.

[963] They gave them just enough to buy their tobacco and their coffee.

[964] Enough to stop them from kicking off, you mean?

[965] Yes, yes, exactly.

[966] Flipping heck.

[967] So I've completely ignored most of the questions so far because I'm just trying to put Gemma's story in the context of what Julie is going through.

[968] I'm going to open it up to questions in a minute.

[969] And the chat is just going so fast, it's impossible for me. So people who put questions in, you're going to have to put them in again because I've not been able to concentrate.

[970] There's so many questions coming in.

[971] I mean, we've got almost 3 ,000 watching live.

[972] And if we don't answer all your questions, Gemma's links are down there in the description box.

[973] You can hit her up on Instagram.

[974] subscribe to her YouTube.

[975] And, you know, are you open to people sending you questions after this, Gemma, on your socials?

[976] Yeah, that's fine.

[977] Okay, that's good.

[978] So are there any other aspects of Julia's life in HMP Peterborough that I've not touched on?

[979] I've touched on the food, the education, the jobs.

[980] You said in the cell she might get, like, a cellmate.

[981] What do the cells look like in HMP Peterborough?

[982] So your cell is a piece of metal sticking out of the wall.

[983] It's attached to the wall.

[984] The mattress is about that thin.

[985] The quilts used to be shiny, so they're 100 % polyester, so they always fell off in the middle of the night.

[986] You've got a steel basin, which is your toilet.

[987] And then you have to use your...

[988] You've got a desk, sorry, and a little shelving unit to put some clothes on.

[989] And you've got a sink about this big, right?

[990] And every time you press the water, it just flies everywhere.

[991] You've got a tiny little mirror on the wall, which other prisoners have scratched the hell out of it.

[992] So you can't even see yourself.

[993] So you've just got to guess what you look like.

[994] But you can imagine you look like rubbish.

[995] You've got your communal showers, Sean, where you all have to use a communal shower.

[996] And women will poo.

[997] and leave feces in the shower because they are too scared to poo in front of their cellmate, yeah?

[998] So when I walked into the communal showers on Seawing, I was met with a huge turd.

[999] So you can imagine, can't you?

[1000] You will never know how feral women are until you are locked up with multiple women.

[1001] Sean, it traumatised me. It traumatised me. Yeah, there are some parts of the world where they have to poo in the shower because that's the only way to get rid of it because that's how things are set up in certain parts of the world because the toilet system isn't there.

[1002] And when that was happening where I was housed in Arizona and guys saw that other guys had left poo in the shower, those guys were automatically smashed.

[1003] and told to get on their way.

[1004] But later on, we found out what the reason was, the water pressure and all this kind of stuff.

[1005] And yeah, but that's mad, honestly.

[1006] I never heard of that happening in the UK system, doing in the shower.

[1007] Yeah.

[1008] Wow.

[1009] What about the mental health side of it then?

[1010] Because Julia, you know, we've done 13 podcasts with Julia.

[1011] Yeah.

[1012] And it's been quite a journey.

[1013] And one of them, she went over and showed receipts of all of the drugs she'd been given as a child.

[1014] And the side effects of these things were like complete eradication of your memory.

[1015] And it's like, it just added to our suspicions of what this woman has been through in her life.

[1016] So she has had mental health things, the cocktails she was on.

[1017] I'm surprised she can even think rationally as an adult.

[1018] When she goes in there then, you mentioned about mental health screening.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] And if she is relapsing because of the pressure of the prison upon her, will she be taken care of or is it hard to get treatment?

[1021] It's difficult, really.

[1022] If she was already on medication, then she would flag that up with the initial check.

[1023] So and then they would say, oh, she's on this medication.

[1024] Then she would be able to get her meds because medical care would give them to her.

[1025] But if she isn't registered on any medication, then.

[1026] Well, she's not going to have them and they will try.

[1027] They'll send it to the doctors or the mental health team, but it might not be straight away.

[1028] She could be in there a month, a month before she sees them, Sean, you know.

[1029] So I wouldn't hold out any hope to her being supported by the doctors section, I'm afraid.

[1030] What about recreation, access to the library, things like that in HMPP tomorrow?

[1031] So if she is on a work placement, she won't be able to do that.

[1032] If she hasn't got a work placement, but in her work placement, she should be able to have some time to go on movement and rent a book from the library.

[1033] They used to do a library trolley, but I don't know if they still do that anymore.

[1034] They used to bring the library trolley round for people that couldn't get to the library, but I don't know if they do that anymore.

[1035] So.

[1036] If she's got a job, she'll be all right because she'll be able to get out of her cell.

[1037] But if she hasn't got a job, then it's going to be a long day and she's only got English TV.

[1038] She'll only have four channels.

[1039] They did have another channel on there where on the occasion they might put a DVD on in the communal DVD room and it'll get streamed to the televisions.

[1040] But it doesn't always happen.

[1041] And it's always a film from like 20 years ago.

[1042] Mind you, they're the best films.

[1043] And then recreation time, you will be able to go to the yard.

[1044] as long as the prison isn't on lockdown.

[1045] And that's something she can only do if she is allowed out of a cell or they come and get her and ask her, do you want to come on your time?

[1046] Yeah.

[1047] Yeah, it took me a year of being on remand before I even found out I had a five -book allowance from the cart.

[1048] I'd never even seen the cart come around.

[1049] And once I found that out, I was buying everybody's allowance in the pod.

[1050] And you couldn't request specific books.

[1051] You could only put a genre like you could put history, philosophy, stuff like that.

[1052] So it was potluck what you were going to get.

[1053] Once I started reading, I know I just didn't look back after that.

[1054] All right.

[1055] So question here.

[1056] Do you get free menstrual material in HMP Peterborough?

[1057] Yes, you do.

[1058] You can also buy it, but they do give you some free products, but they are.

[1059] well not very good products and they're very shiny so you can imagine ladies you know use your imagination they're not very nice but she will get them for free she will also be granted a some prison blues which is a prison tracksuit stamped with pb on the front she'll get some bridget jones's bloomers if you've ever watched the film bridget jones if you haven't apple catches huge knickers or pants so to speak she'll get a few pairs of them And, yeah, that's about it, really.

[1060] What does HMP stand for?

[1061] Her Majesty's Prison, James.

[1062] His Majesty's Prison now.

[1063] His now.

[1064] Sarah wants to know the name of your YouTube channel, and link is in the description, Sarah.

[1065] It's Bipolar Mum Journey.

[1066] So my alias is Bipolar Mum Journey, and that's what all my social media is under.

[1067] Yeah.

[1068] All right, if you've just tuned in, I'm with Gemma, who's served time in HMP Peterborough, where Julia is presently housed.

[1069] If you're not familiar, Julia was arrested entering the country.

[1070] She's got four counts of stalking and harassment.

[1071] And maximum sentence for each is 12 months.

[1072] So if you times that by four, looking at four years, you serve 50 % in the UK.

[1073] So she would do two years max.

[1074] But that is unlikely.

[1075] that she's going to be given that much time.

[1076] And tying into that, blank five, blank C. Gemma, have you seen other people in for such frivolous charges?

[1077] And if so, what happened in the case?

[1078] Before you answer that, though, Gemma, the basis is that Julia, struggling to find her identity, went to the McCann's house, doorstepped them and recorded a phone call with them.

[1079] She also attended a vigil that they were supposed to be at, and it's come out that she's been communicating with them by the phone, by WhatsApp, and by Instagram.

[1080] That's the basis of it.

[1081] Now, there were stalkers incarcerated in Arizona, and these were people who were just following their girlfriends around 24 -7, leaving nonstop threatening telephone calls.

[1082] When we think of Stalker, you see these Netflix programs and Blanksy saying, Gemma, it's a frivolous charge because it might not be a frivolous charge for some people, but if you look at what Julia's actually done, she's quite a harmless person.

[1083] Have you ever experienced anyone incarcerated on such a flimsy backstory?

[1084] Not really.

[1085] There was only one stalker on the wing.

[1086] Is that what we're classing, Julia?

[1087] Is that what she's getting done for?

[1088] Yeah, stalking and harassment.

[1089] Yeah, so we had one lady on the bottom deck who was quite violent with a walking stick.

[1090] She was always waving it around.

[1091] You could tell she was a stalker.

[1092] She was quite aggressive.

[1093] She was in for breaking her restraining order on her ex -partner.

[1094] So, yeah, I can't remember how long she got.

[1095] I think she got about 12 months for that.

[1096] But she was very aggressive.

[1097] You can imagine her stalking.

[1098] She couldn't stand that he had another partner.

[1099] She was talking like they were still together.

[1100] She was clearly unstable and aggressive and quite, yeah, rightly so.

[1101] She should have been in there, in my opinion.

[1102] But I can't really pass judgment on Julia because I don't know the history of it all.

[1103] People want to know how long were you incarcerated for?

[1104] So I was sentenced to two and a half years and I did 12 months behind bars.

[1105] Yeah.

[1106] All right.

[1107] People are asking.

[1108] Oh, yeah.

[1109] Alex, this ties in.

[1110] Alex Belfield, who was a YouTuber, was done for internet stalking going up five years.

[1111] But he's going to get out in two and a half.

[1112] I remember that case.

[1113] Yeah.

[1114] And that was a very high profile case.

[1115] So if you are high profile, unfortunately, it's a double -edged sword.

[1116] It can go against you.

[1117] They can make an example out of you.

[1118] But also, if there's a lot of public support rising up, it can work in your favor.

[1119] I think Julia obviously has a lot of public support here, but there are some people around the world that have been trying to put her down, including this Fia woman.

[1120] I don't know if I can pronounce it correctly.

[1121] But I was sent a post by Fia, and she said that Sinclair, Julia's media representative was a construct that didn't even exist.

[1122] I've been speaking to him all week.

[1123] I don't need to look into fear beyond that because if you're saying this guy's a construct that doesn't exist and I've been speaking to the guy, this person's just making things up.

[1124] The reason I don't have Julia's prison number is I've been speaking to her people today and they said they were going to get it to me today.

[1125] but I've still not received it.

[1126] That's why I've only got the date of birth method of sending her in.

[1127] And she does have legal representation.

[1128] It's been arranged by Sinclair.

[1129] So all that is being handled.

[1130] So don't worry about any of that, folks.

[1131] All right.

[1132] If you've got questions for Gemma and you've put them in previously, I apologize.

[1133] It all went too fast for me. Put them in now and we will get them to Gemma.

[1134] We've got about 30 minutes before it gets midnight here and we'll go to bed.

[1135] But we'll try and get through as many of your questions as possible.

[1136] All right.

[1137] So what was the reason for putting Julia on medication as a child?

[1138] We don't know.

[1139] It just made us extra suspicious that she'd been MK altered or something.

[1140] Yeah.

[1141] Something really weird has happened in her life that people...

[1142] powers that be don't want us to know about and the powers that be that could have give her a 60 pound dna test when they spent over 10 million on operation grange and now they're spending thousands processing julia judicially it just doesn't make sense to me common sense would say just do the damn dna test and put this to rest yeah Tracy, I've got a website, SeanAtwood .com.

[1143] There's a contact page and it's got my email on it.

[1144] Is this channel for criminals?

[1145] Ex -criminals, Frank.

[1146] Get it right.

[1147] We're reformed people now.

[1148] We're reformed, darling, yes.

[1149] Look at our reboots.

[1150] Thank you.

[1151] I'm scrolling like ferociously now.

[1152] There's so much.

[1153] Can I do anything from New York City, Sean?

[1154] My family and I are very well connected.

[1155] I can easily show receipts.

[1156] I don't want to put it all out there, though, as I'm not a name dropper.

[1157] So, Zarina, go into the description box of this video.

[1158] There's a link for the prison where Julia is housed.

[1159] We've got Julia's mailing address.

[1160] But you can peruse at your leisure, as they say in America, all the ways you can help Julia that are available from the prison, sending things in.

[1161] We covered this earlier on.

[1162] Is Julia's mother in the UK?

[1163] No. Poland.

[1164] Poland.

[1165] Yep.

[1166] Let me go back then to what's coming earlier.

[1167] Hold on a second.

[1168] I asked this yesterday, but I'd like to know why Julie is being treated like the same way as someone who's been tried and convicted.

[1169] All right, so Gemma, in America, if you're unsentenced, you go to what's called a jail, which is completely separate from a prison, where you go when you are sentenced.

[1170] But in the UK, what Subler's asking, why is Julie getting treated the same as someone who's been convicted?

[1171] But it doesn't make any difference here, does it?

[1172] It doesn't make any difference.

[1173] So when she was arrested, she would have gone to the police station, which is like a little jail.

[1174] And then they would have processed her, put her straight on remand because, like you say, she's a flight risk.

[1175] Yes, she will go to the main prison.

[1176] Then she'll be on remand.

[1177] She'll have a little bit more privilege and leeway because she's on remand.

[1178] But that's just how it works.

[1179] Yeah, we don't really have a jail and then a prison.

[1180] We have a police station where you're processed and then they will decide whether you get let out on bail or you go to prison.

[1181] There's no in between.

[1182] Ron wants to know what will happen if Julia kicks off because she is innocent.

[1183] Well, if she kicks off, she'll be classed as unstable because she's a female.

[1184] So they'll class her as a hysterical female who's nuts.

[1185] So the best thing Julie can do is just be calm.

[1186] And, you know, if they've got some nasty prison officers in there, they will treat her very badly.

[1187] So let's just hope she doesn't kick off.

[1188] I think she's got more brain cells than that.

[1189] She does, but there's a concern, Gemma, that...

[1190] you know, they want to just really box her off and shut her up and maybe even section her.

[1191] Could you explain what that means to the Americans getting sectioned?

[1192] Oh, goodness me. So if they want to section her, then they will put her onto a psychiatric unit.

[1193] Are you there, Sean?

[1194] I've lost you.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] No, no, I'm still here.

[1197] Yeah, so they will put you on a psychiatric unit, which is a hospital.

[1198] And if they hold you indefinitely, then you've basically got no chance of getting out of the hospital, unfortunately.

[1199] So that's how that works.

[1200] So if they really want to, you know, it can get very nasty, can't they?

[1201] If they really want to box you off somewhere, never to be heard from again because they classify you as mental.

[1202] Candice, Sean, what if they have already done the DNA test a long time ago and they know she's Maddie and that is why they say they never did it?

[1203] Well, that is an interesting observation.

[1204] And there is a theory, Candice, that because Julia has a dog and she's put a dog somewhere safe and...

[1205] She was coming to the UK and she'd recently contacted Jerry McCann, which might have put this whole thing into motion.

[1206] And she didn't tell any of us she was coming to the UK because we would have told her absolutely not.

[1207] There is a theory that Julia, by coming to the UK, knowing the police would DNA test her if she were arrested, is forcing the issue and will finally get closure.

[1208] And that's what we're all praying for.

[1209] And even some of her detractors have said they should have put this to bed by now by simply doing that DNA test.

[1210] And then that leaves two outcomes.

[1211] If she is Maddie, she's probably going to have to get released.

[1212] You can't be stalking your parents, can you?

[1213] If she isn't Maddie, then I imagine she's going to have a huge...

[1214] emotional rollercoaster.

[1215] And we're all just going to have to continue to love and support her.

[1216] And for the people who've said I've had her on, I'm pushing this narrative that she is Maddie.

[1217] I've never, ever said she's Maddie.

[1218] It was John Wedger, an ex -London cop, who brought her to this channel.

[1219] And he brought her saying, Sean, I believe Madeline McCann is dead.

[1220] But I believe Julie has the right to tell her story.

[1221] And, you know, I reiterate that every time.

[1222] And I also want to reiterate that we do not know what's happened to Madeline McCann, for sure.

[1223] And her parents must have gone through an absolute horror story.

[1224] They're, you know, facing a life sentence every day.

[1225] It's every parent's worst nightmare to not know what's happened to your missing child.

[1226] And I can't imagine the effect that would have on a person if baby Ziggy disappeared.

[1227] You know, you'd just be like, it would change you for the rest of your life.

[1228] All right, so Jack wants to know, does Gemma know anyone in Peterborough now?

[1229] No, but tomorrow I'm going to ask my friend because I've got a couple of friends from Peterborough and they might have links.

[1230] So I'm going to do a little bit of digging tomorrow and see if I can find anything out.

[1231] Yeah.

[1232] I know what you're getting at there, Jack.

[1233] Believe me. We've got the biggest network of people who've been in prison in the country through this channel, through our interviews.

[1234] Yeah.

[1235] So if there's any way we can get Julia some privileges, let's just say.

[1236] We'll do our best.

[1237] Hypothetically speaking.

[1238] Allegedly.

[1239] Allegedly, yeah.

[1240] All right, folks, we've got about 20 or so minutes left for a final.

[1241] Questions for Gemma, who's come on on very short notice here and probably wants to get to bed.

[1242] And please show your appreciation by subscribing to Gemma's channel.

[1243] A lot of people in the chat have subscribed this evening.

[1244] Oh, thank you.

[1245] Thank you very much.

[1246] You're quite active on TikTok as well, aren't you, Gemma?

[1247] Yeah, I'm a bit wild on TikTok, yeah.

[1248] Lots of prison stories on there, that's for sure, yeah.

[1249] And Gemma, as you can see, she's got so much passion and energy and charisma when she's on the screen.

[1250] She's absolutely on fire.

[1251] Yeah.

[1252] As Julia's family or mother disowned her.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] It's just a weird backstory there.

[1255] They've refused to do a DNA test as well, which adds to the suspicion.

[1256] The parents?

[1257] Her own parents have refused as well.

[1258] Oh, wow.

[1259] This is getting really crazy.

[1260] Wow.

[1261] What?

[1262] And Julia was essayed.

[1263] There's a case.

[1264] It's all kinds of weirdness, honestly.

[1265] I'd have to go through all 13 of the podcasts we did with her to get to grips with her.

[1266] Again, she's been through so much stuff.

[1267] But the link folks for them are all in the description box as well.

[1268] Tracy, my email is at wood .shawn, A -T -T, wood .shawn, the correct spelling, a few S -E -A -Ns out there, S -H -A -U -N, at hotmail .co .uk.

[1269] So, yeah, you can contact me there.

[1270] Let's see.

[1271] Oh, this viewer has seen you on TikTok, Gemma.

[1272] No comment.

[1273] Julesy, Bob, thank you for sharing, Gemma.

[1274] Always a pleasure hearing, seeing you speak.

[1275] Oh, thank you.

[1276] Thank you.

[1277] Patrick, so nice to give Julia a chance to share.

[1278] Susan, thank you, Gemma, for your story as well.

[1279] Nana, please make sure that someone has Julia's DNA sampled before in case they try some trickery or contact her lawyer to get a fresh, secure, new one, please.

[1280] So apparently under the present law, because the other night we went over the definition of stalking and harassment, and it is a charge that presently you do get DNA tested for that arrest when you go in at the cop shop.

[1281] Yeah.

[1282] And then even the Daily Mail said this now allows the police to fully match it with McCann's DNA and get to the bottom of this.

[1283] Oh, okay.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] So that's what we want.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] Let's see if there's any more questions.

[1288] Why would the parents not do a 60 quid?

[1289] Exactly, Kay.

[1290] It doesn't make any sense.

[1291] The whole series with Julia that we've done on this channel starts with a phone call to Operation Grange and a snooty police officer saying that they haven't got money in the budget to do the 60 pound DNA test after they spent millions.

[1292] Absolutely crackers.

[1293] And now look what the situation they've created that they're going to blame on Julia, but they've created this situation they could have prevented.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] DNA.

[1296] If you've put a question in and I've not answered it, folks, the chat's gone too fast.

[1297] Please repost it now while we're going into our final 15, 20 minutes.

[1298] Jennifer, can Julia access the prison listeners service?

[1299] In HMP Peterborough.

[1300] What does that mean again, Gemma?

[1301] And how does it work?

[1302] So a listener is a prisoner who will get called out in the evening.

[1303] Well, I think it's all day.

[1304] They can be called out at any time of the day.

[1305] And this prisoner will listen to the prisoner just so that they can get some things off their chest.

[1306] And you can't repeat anything back to anybody unless she would harm herself.

[1307] I think.

[1308] Yeah.

[1309] All right.

[1310] So will Julia get paper and pen to write to people?

[1311] And if so, how many envelopes and stamps is she allowed?

[1312] So back in my day, you got two free letters, prison issue letters, which is a blue stripey letter with a brown envelope.

[1313] And the prison will pay for you to send those two letters out.

[1314] But that's all you get.

[1315] You only get two.

[1316] So she'll have to wait till she's able to spend money to buy paper, to buy envelopes and stamps.

[1317] Yeah, it's tricky.

[1318] For people who've got questions pending, I am just going down the list now from 11 .37pm.

[1319] Any questions that have come in from now, I'm not going to be able to miss them.

[1320] I'm just going to slowly go down the list as we get to the end.

[1321] All right, so...

[1322] Will the prison weed out any hate mail before Julia gets it?

[1323] It all depends.

[1324] It all depends.

[1325] They haven't got time to read every letter.

[1326] They'll just send it through the sniffer dogs, check there's no contraband in there or anything that shouldn't be in there, and then you'll get it through your door.

[1327] They haven't got time to read every letter, so she could get some hate mail.

[1328] Yes.

[1329] So...

[1330] The latest news from Julia's lawyer, Barbara, is that we are trying to get a hearing from one week's time to get Julia bailed out to my house.

[1331] That's the latest.

[1332] How are you doing, Gemma?

[1333] Blanksy wants to know.

[1334] Thank you very much.

[1335] I've got lots of things.

[1336] I'm not going to.

[1337] expose everything I'm doing because I'm not doing it for clout.

[1338] I'm doing it to help my survivors in the UK, both male and female that have gone through.

[1339] SA, DV, CSA and all the rest of it.

[1340] I just want to help people.

[1341] And by speaking out, I want to lift the shame for them sitting at home thinking, oh, I've been through that and look at her.

[1342] You know, we shouldn't be feeling any shame for anything we've been through.

[1343] And don't forget at 2pm tomorrow, after our Sunday roast dinners, My partner, Jen, is going to interview Gemma here.

[1344] And when this video finishes, it will take you over to that if you want to set your notifications for it.

[1345] Because Gemma's going to get into details about the mother and baby unit at HMP Peterborough being pregnant and giving birth.

[1346] And the horror story of what happened with a male prison officer afterwards.

[1347] So Gemma's going to be back at 2 p .m. UK tomorrow doing that story with Jen while I babysit Ziggy to give Jen a chance to get up here.

[1348] So next question is, how corrupt is HMP Peterborough?

[1349] Not very.

[1350] Well, not when I was in there.

[1351] I think the best time to get stuff in there was when the girls got their ROTL, which is release on temporary license.

[1352] So you get a day out after you've spent so long in prison.

[1353] You can apply for a day out.

[1354] Now, I knew girls were bringing in contraband after their days out.

[1355] So when you first go into HMP Peterborough, you can perhaps maybe get a little bit of contraband in.

[1356] But for some reason, it was easier to get it on, get it in.

[1357] after the when you've been for your rattle but it wasn't that corrupt i think the male side is probably worse but i think females are quite quite good in that that regard do you know what i mean there was no big time gangsters in there when i was in there or anything yeah they were just they would use you know the prescription uh medicine that you get from healthcare they would use that as contraband and do crazy things with that yeah irene according to chat GBT, Google, Maddie was an IVF baby.

[1358] Yes.

[1359] Okay.

[1360] All right.

[1361] So next one.

[1362] Oh, this is nice from Karen.

[1363] Thanks, Gemma, for sharing your experience in surviving, turning your life around.

[1364] Jay's run the math on the pay rate.

[1365] 75 pence for 20 hours.

[1366] That's four hours a day times five a week.

[1367] Okay.

[1368] Thank you for that.

[1369] Enjoy.

[1370] Letters are really important.

[1371] The Polish government should be getting involved because the embassy should have been informed by now.

[1372] I'm not aware if they have or not, though.

[1373] She's locked up for four counts of stalking and harassment of the McCann family.

[1374] We've done some huge live streams in the past couple of days detailing everything, the backstory of them.

[1375] Tracy, can we send the money?

[1376] The link for HMP Peterborough is in the description box.

[1377] We started out talking about that.

[1378] Gemma.

[1379] She was in over 10 years ago, so things have changed.

[1380] So check out the protocol at the prison link in the chat, in the description box.

[1381] How soon before the DNA test come through and get announced?

[1382] That's anybody's guess, Sarah.

[1383] Hopefully the sooner the better.

[1384] You know what?

[1385] This is so sad, Rachel.

[1386] I used to send books all the time to prisoners through Amazon.

[1387] in the UK and the US.

[1388] And both US and UK stopped it.

[1389] I now, when I do talks at prisons, I take boxes of my prison jail memoir, Hard Time With Me, 40 packs and get them in through the librarian method.

[1390] But you can no longer send books in through Amazon, which is really frustrating.

[1391] I was trying to send books to Kevin Lane for Amazon and they sent them all back.

[1392] Oh, goodness me. So, yeah.

[1393] So I donate copies of Hard Time to school kids and to prisoners.

[1394] We've managed to donate like 20 ,000 to 30 ,000 copies over the past 10 years.

[1395] But I do that outside of Amazon.

[1396] I mean, do you know any other ways of getting books in?

[1397] I have no clue.

[1398] I guess you'd have to request them because you have to put in a request form.

[1399] So say you wanted a pair of trainers and a track suit and a book, maybe.

[1400] Then you have to put it all on a piece of paper that goes to the office and then they confirm it.

[1401] And then you have to tell your parents or spouse or friend, right, you can send me this, this and this in.

[1402] And if they send you any extra, it will have to go into your property and be stored.

[1403] So it's very strict.

[1404] Yeah.

[1405] But no, I don't know how to send a book in.

[1406] Does Julia's Polish mum have the right to have her committed?

[1407] Oh, I don't know about that.

[1408] Is there someone we can send Julia money for a prison account for the commissary?

[1409] So to pay for commissary, we've already covered sending money in.

[1410] That comes off your books, doesn't it?

[1411] Off your commissary.

[1412] How does it work?

[1413] Are you allowed to spend so much a week, is it?

[1414] I think when you're on remand, I think you can spend £50, but I don't know.

[1415] Don't quote me. It could be £30.

[1416] so you will get the money and then there's a little computer system now it used to be paper and pen back in my day well paper and pencil but now there's a computer system where she will be able to um order commissary yeah i don't think straight away though i think it's it won't happen straight away so she'll have to go without and manage on the prison food for a good week or so until it all gets um Up and running.

[1417] And that's if she's even taken any money in with her, Sean.

[1418] If she hasn't got any money in there with her, she can't get anything until she gets a job.

[1419] And she might not get a job for four weeks.

[1420] So, you know.

[1421] Miss Profile.

[1422] Learned much about H &P.

[1423] Hoping they've improved since Brady and Hindley.

[1424] Brady had access to children in medical.

[1425] What?

[1426] What?

[1427] So heartbreaking.

[1428] Are they better?

[1429] Yeah, they've got to be better with things like that.

[1430] He got access to children in medical from the Young Offenders Wing, I presume.

[1431] Was he in Broadmo with Savile?

[1432] That would explain things like that.

[1433] I know the Yorkshire Ripper was.

[1434] Goodness me. Would letters of support help her or would they overwhelm her?

[1435] So one of the main reasons we've done this stream tonight is to get Julia's address out there, which is in the description box.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] It's also posted across my socials.

[1438] And yeah.

[1439] Mail is gold, isn't it, Gemma?

[1440] Yeah, mail is gold.

[1441] And at the end of the day, she can leave them.

[1442] If she doesn't want to read them, she can leave them so it won't overwhelm her.

[1443] She'll just get through them in her own time.

[1444] But I would suggest write to her, get a nice card, something that she can put on her wall and stick it to the wall with a bit of toothpaste.

[1445] So get her a nice fancy card, something she can look at to cheer her up if you're going to write her a letter.

[1446] Yeah.

[1447] All right, I'm still scrolling, folks.

[1448] I'm only...

[1449] I'm four minutes behind the chat.

[1450] Catching up.

[1451] Let's see.

[1452] Got to go through it.

[1453] But have to, but via catalogs now.

[1454] Catalogs.

[1455] I think the prison have a catalog.

[1456] Fran mentioned something about this.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] So I used to get my beauty products from Amazon and I think they do a Little Woods catalog.

[1459] So say you wanted to buy a CD player or a digital radio or...

[1460] Yeah, something like that.

[1461] You have to buy it from the catalogue.

[1462] So I presume they've got a book catalogue now.

[1463] So you'll have to wait.

[1464] Well, that takes ages, Sean.

[1465] I used to put my order in for makeup and it took about a month.

[1466] So, you know, it's just a long process.

[1467] Everything's long in there.

[1468] Yeah.

[1469] Jack saying, why has it gone to Crown Court?

[1470] Because they're upping the ante, aren't they?

[1471] Making it more serious instead of just sticking it with a magistrate.

[1472] Magistrate.

[1473] So where is Ron tonight?

[1474] Ron's got a big person involved in this case that I'm not going to mention that he may be going live with tomorrow.

[1475] That's all I'm allowed to say.

[1476] The suspense.

[1477] Yeah, look for that one.

[1478] Someone really close to what's happened here.

[1479] Lemon, no. I know Gary was helping Julia.

[1480] And I...

[1481] I don't know what his thoughts are on this, or John Wedger's.

[1482] We need to get John Wedger on as soon as possible.

[1483] He's the ex -cop who brought Julia to the channel.

[1484] Will the prison read her mail in case people are hateful?

[1485] That's tricky to discern.

[1486] They'll read a couple, but they won't read them all.

[1487] They haven't got time.

[1488] In HMP Peterborough, Gemma, was your mail opened or unopened?

[1489] Yeah, they open it.

[1490] They have to open it, so to check if you've got any stamps in there, any money.

[1491] or whatever, but then it will be run through, you know, the sniffer dogs and whatnot.

[1492] If she receives a ton of mail, will she get it all in one go?

[1493] Is it like just during the one mail call for that day?

[1494] No, I think they'll do it in dribs and drabs.

[1495] Do you know what I mean?

[1496] They'll just do it whenever they feel like it.

[1497] You know, so it all depends on the prison officer.

[1498] You know, if they want to give you a stack, they'll give you a stack.

[1499] But if they just want to give it you in a week's time, they'll give it you in a week's time.

[1500] It's unpredictable.

[1501] Joseph, we've got to give Ron some days of the week off.

[1502] He's just had a baby.

[1503] Oh, yes.

[1504] Yes, he's a very charismatic speaker, and hopefully he'll be back tomorrow.

[1505] No. Thanks, Kevin.

[1506] Yeah, we hope all goes well.

[1507] All right, I'm nearly caught up with all the questions, folks, so don't be telling me I've missed your questions out.

[1508] Don't be crying.

[1509] If you've got any, get them in now.

[1510] Get them in now.

[1511] Susie, do you think Baby P's mother was driven to unalive herself by other prisoners?

[1512] She didn't, did she?

[1513] She's still alive, isn't she?

[1514] I don't think so.

[1515] Let me ask the AI on where is Baby P's mother now?

[1516] I swear she's still in prison, still alive.

[1517] Back in jail after breaking licence.

[1518] Oh, she's been out, has she?

[1519] And broke the licence.

[1520] Good God.

[1521] Recalled by Justice Secretary.

[1522] Do you want to know what the breach is?

[1523] Let's have a look.

[1524] Yeah, let's have a look.

[1525] This was September 2024.

[1526] The story.

[1527] Recalled to prison for breaching her licence conditions in a move authorised by Justice Secretary.

[1528] She has been subjected to strict...

[1529] strict conditions and did not hesitate to recall them to prison if they break the rules.

[1530] Justice system appeal rejected by a judge.

[1531] Da -da -da -da.

[1532] Released in licence in 2013.

[1533] Recalled in 2015 for breach.

[1534] That's Connolly.

[1535] Now in her 40s.

[1536] In the latest review, the parole board decided Connolly was suitable for release after hearing she was considered low risk of committing a fervent offence.

[1537] That probation officers and prison officials supported the plan.

[1538] despite the panel highlighting concerns over her ability to manipulate and deceive.

[1539] Oh, my God.

[1540] I can't even look at the picture of the baby.

[1541] I'm going to cry.

[1542] I'm going to have to stop.

[1543] Take it off, Sean.

[1544] Take it off.

[1545] I can't watch.

[1546] With his little jumper on, I can't watch it.

[1547] Oh, that's the one.

[1548] Yeah.

[1549] Yeah, stop it.

[1550] It's imprinted in my head, Sean.

[1551] Looks about the same age as...

[1552] Yeah.

[1553] Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[1554] Turn it off, Sean.

[1555] You know, with that innocent look, like...

[1556] Turn it off.

[1557] Turn it off, Sean.

[1558] Stop.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] All right.

[1561] Will we start our own prison reform group?

[1562] Francesca Pettore has.

[1563] Yes.

[1564] Ex -prisoners unite.

[1565] Help Fran.

[1566] I'm more of a lone wolf activist shining a light on these.

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] Online petition's got to be run through the legal people.

[1569] We'll get to that later.

[1570] Can Julia's Polish family be forced to give her DNA?

[1571] I don't know, Sarah.

[1572] That's above my pay grade.

[1573] I'm getting through them.

[1574] I'm trying to hit the end so we can go to bed.

[1575] Let's see.

[1576] Gemma, do you think Julia will be more vulnerable than that because she's high profile?

[1577] No, like I say, it's going to be touch and go.

[1578] She's going to be popular with some people, unpopular with others.

[1579] Some people are going to be jealous of her because she's been on Sean Atwood's channel and, you know, in the press.

[1580] It's touch and go.

[1581] It's all about how she carries herself.

[1582] She's just got to be firm and put her foot down and just be strong -willed, and I'm sure she will be.

[1583] Wouldn't it be easy to organise a GoFundMe, Sarah?

[1584] You know, that is a possibility, but...

[1585] I think it would be more straightforward if people just directly sent money to her.

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] In jail.

[1588] Because when you put people in the middle, all kinds of things can happen.

[1589] Yeah.

[1590] And people get accused of ripping people off.

[1591] Yeah.

[1592] And they take a big cut.

[1593] Anyway, don't these go for me and all these, whatever they are.

[1594] They take a big cut, don't they?

[1595] They do take a cut as well.

[1596] Yeah.

[1597] And it's not fair.

[1598] So the money needs to go directly.

[1599] Yeah.

[1600] Gemma, do you think Julie will be moved around prisons?

[1601] Quite possibly.

[1602] It all depends on the heat.

[1603] You know, they could move her around, yeah.

[1604] Not so much while she's on remand.

[1605] I think she'll probably be in Peterborough while she's on remand.

[1606] But once she's sentenced, yeah, they could move her around, yeah.

[1607] Have I or Ron ever tried to talk to a Polish poet?

[1608] I wouldn't know where to begin, to be honest, Patty.

[1609] I know.

[1610] It's dangerous territory, isn't it?

[1611] It's something they don't have America.

[1612] Yeah.

[1613] Could Julie be released on good behavior?

[1614] When she's sentenced, quite possibly.

[1615] We'll know more when she's sentenced, you know, if she does get sentenced, that is.

[1616] Yeah.

[1617] All right.

[1618] So here's a super chat.

[1619] Thanks, Poet's Dream.

[1620] Thank you, Sean and Gemma, for this info.

[1621] Looking forward to seeing Ziggy in the podcast soon.

[1622] All right.

[1623] Just for you, Poet's Dream, if Ziggy is awake, when...

[1624] Jen interviews Gemma at 2pm tomorrow.

[1625] I'll come on at the beginning if Ziggy is in a good mood and agrees to consent to putting himself out there.

[1626] Gemma, you've been an absolute star as usual.

[1627] We've got all of the questions.

[1628] If you've got further questions, go and subscribe.

[1629] Follow Gemma on Instagram and send her a message on Instagram and watch some of the stuff that she's done on her YouTube channel.

[1630] Subscribe to the YouTube channel.

[1631] Is there anything you'd like to say in conclusion, Gemma?

[1632] Not really.

[1633] Just a little check in with me and Jen tomorrow.

[1634] So if you've got more questions, head over there tomorrow and me and Jen will have a chat with you.

[1635] There we go.

[1636] So we've definitely got Gemma coming back.

[1637] Yeah.

[1638] And it's a hell of a story.

[1639] There's so much left out that you've not heard tonight.

[1640] Possibly Ron coming back.

[1641] And we have someone really close to what's going on.

[1642] And we're still working on trying to get John Wedge to come in, the ex -cop tomorrow night.

[1643] So tons more coming tomorrow.

[1644] Much love and respect wherever you are in the world.

[1645] Take care of the little ones, folks.

[1646] See all y 'all tomorrow.

[1647] Thanks for tuning in.

[1648] Send positive energy to June.