A New Path for Presidential Pardons

[0] From the New York Times, I'm Michael Barbaro.

[1] This is the day.

[2] Today.

[3] For decades, getting a presidential pardon required a cumbersome petition process and a lengthy legal review.

[4] Under President Trump, those seeking pardons are using a very different strategy.

[5] It's Thursday, August 9th.

[6] Trump took office and people didn't know what he was going to do about pardons.

[7] In fact, I think a lot of folks didn't think he would do much at all.

[8] And then August in his first year.

[9] President Trump is making news over the possibility of pardoning former Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

[10] Kind of out of nowhere, he floated the notion that he would pardon former Sheriff Joe Arpaio.

[11] Campbell Robertson is a national reporter for the Times.

[12] Why am I doing this?

[13] Sometimes I ask myself, and it's corny.

[14] I'm going to tell you why I do it.

[15] the people want me as the sheriff.

[16] Arpaio was this hero among the hard right.

[17] We just arrested 31 more recently coming into our country illegally.

[18] He was a former sheriff in Maricopa County, Arizona.

[19] And we're going to continue to raid businesses that hire illegals.

[20] The majority have false identification, so I'm not stopping doing my job.

[21] And the Justice Department a few years before had described him is violating constitutional rights like pretty much no other law enforcement officer, and mainly at Latinos.

[22] I don't know what it illegal looks like.

[23] I'm an equal opportunity law enforcement guy.

[24] We lock up everybody.

[25] He was charged with racial profiling, unconstitutional treatment of prisoners, had willfully defied court orders, but I think some on the hard rights all in the standing up for law and order.

[26] So was Sheriff Joe convicted for doing his job?

[27] Trump floated the idea who would pardon him and then at a rally in Phoenix.

[28] I'll make a prediction.

[29] I think he's going to be just fine, okay?

[30] He said that former Sheriff Arpaio would be just fine.

[31] But Sheriff Joe can feel good.

[32] And he did a few days later indeed pardon him.

[33] And what's the general reaction to Joe Arpaio's pardon outside of the report?

[34] Republican base.

[35] Mostly people were shocked by it.

[36] President Trump is facing sharp criticism for granting a pardon to Joe Arpaio.

[37] The main focus early on was, of all people, Joe Arpaio.

[38] Arpaio gained notoriety for his aggressive action to arrest illegal immigrants.

[39] Lawmakers and civil rights advocates are questioning the president's decision and its timing.

[40] Arpaio was scheduled to be sentenced in October.

[41] Democrat and Republican senators, as well as a few civil rights organizations, are all slamming President Trump's decision, one group going as far as to call the move a defense of racism.

[42] I'm angry.

[43] What Trump did today was pardoned racism, white supremacy, and okayed the terror that our pio caused.

[44] And what he was being parting for was not some long ago drug conviction or something where he might have been rightfully convicted, but, you know, you want to grant some compassion.

[45] This is for defying a court.

[46] Right.

[47] So this is not quite what people imagine from presidential pardons.

[48] No, particularly in the last few decades, where presidents have been sort of reluctant to issue them earlier in their term.

[49] There might be one here, a couple there, commutation.

[50] And then there's just kind of a flurry at the end of their term, right before they're going out of office.

[51] And part of that is because pardons are usually not very politically popular, particularly for controversial figures.

[52] And so for Trump to pardon an extremely controversial figure, not even a year into office, was pretty unusual.

[53] And so when he did that, it opened the question of, how is it going to use this power?

[54] So some months later...

[55] And do you remember Christian Saucier, the U .S. Navy Sailor, who tried to use Hillary Clinton as a courtroom defense?

[56] Former Navy Sailor, Christian Saucier.

[57] Sausier was sentenced.

[58] to one year in prison for using his cell phone to take these pictures.

[59] Who was convicted of taking pictures of classified areas of a nuclear submarine.

[60] I think that President Trump, you know, I think he knows that in my heart, I understand.

[61] I made a mistake and I accepted responsibility for it.

[62] And I hope he'll give my family and I a chance to basically have a future.

[63] And he went on Foxwood Friends and laid out his case.

[64] Partnering me isn't going to alleviate the punishment.

[65] I mean, I think I've been pretty severely.

[66] punished.

[67] I've lost all of my life savings.

[68] And just a few days later, in March, the president has pardoned Christian Sassier, a Navy submariner.

[69] He gets a full pardon.

[70] Mr. Sossier was 22 years old at the time of his offenses and has served out his 12 months sentence.

[71] So he goes on Fox News and we presume the president saw it and this sailor is pardoned.

[72] Yes.

[73] And his attorney says that Fox News helped.

[74] They're very open about it.

[75] So this is when the game show really starts.

[76] A former White House aide will stand trial in the CIA leak case.

[77] So next in April.

[78] Scooter Libby's perjury and obstruction trial is Scooter Libby.

[79] Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff lied to investigators about his conversations with reporters about Valerie Plame.

[80] Now, he had been convicted of leaking classified information.

[81] His sentence was commuted by George Bush, but he was.

[82] wanted a full pardon.

[83] Mm -hmm.

[84] And someone who was a friend of Mr. Trump's brought Libby's name to Trump.

[85] The White House released a statement that quotes the president as saying, I don't know Mr. Libby, but for years I have heard that he has been treated unfairly.

[86] And hopefully this full pardon will help rectify a very sad portion of his life.

[87] He got a pardon.

[88] Then, the next month.

[89] At six feet one and two hundred twelve pounds.

[90] Jack Johnson.

[91] Johnson is lean and hard.

[92] Jack Johnson was a world champion boxer and over 100 years ago was convicted in a completely racist, racially motivated conviction for traveling with a white girlfriend.

[93] When Trump signed his pardon, today as president, I've issued an executive grant of clemency, a full pardon posthumously to John Arthur Jack Johnson.

[94] There was a big affair at the White House with Sylvester Stallone.

[95] It's one thing, I've been so blessed with the rocky situation and playing that character.

[96] So that's just a long, had been pushing his case.

[97] It was very much last episode of a game show, you won the pardon moment.

[98] I'm Dinesh D'Souza.

[99] Then Dinesh D'Souza.

[100] My new book, The Big Lie, exposing the Nazi roots of the American left.

[101] It's out today.

[102] D'Souza is a conservative writer, media guy who makes movies about how evil Democrats.

[103] are, and he had been convicted of campaign violations.

[104] And his case was apparently pled by Ted Cruz.

[105] I had the opportunity to raise the issue with President Trump.

[106] I encouraged him to pardon to Nesh to Susan.

[107] And he got a full pardon.

[108] President Trump seemingly passing out pardons to heroes of the far right almost as eagerly as Oprah once gifted Pontiacs to suburban moms.

[109] Now people are starting to see where this is going, and Trump starts talking about it.

[110] And he's now talking about Martha Stewart.

[111] Maybe I'll pardon Martha Stewart or Rod Blagojevich.

[112] Rod Blagojevich.

[113] What's that about?

[114] I mean, they were both on the celebrity apprentice.

[115] Trump's dealt with them personally, and maybe they'll get it.

[116] Next comes Alice Johnson, a woman who was serving a life sentence in Alabama on some cocaine -related convictions.

[117] And a video of her case had made its way to Kim Kardashian -West.

[118] Well, when I initially called Ivanka, I said I would love a meeting with your dad.

[119] I said that from the start.

[120] Ms. West got a personal audience with the president pled her case.

[121] Tonight, keeping up with the commutations, 63 -year -old Alice Johnson to be released from this Alabama prison at any time.

[122] And she gets a commutation, not a full pardon, but she gets a commutation she's released from prison.

[123] President Trump says he's considering a pardon for Muhammad Ali.

[124] And then he talks about Muhammad Ali.

[125] But the late boxers lawyers say there's nothing to pardon.

[126] And his family comes out and says, we're very grateful, thank you, but we actually don't need one because his conviction was vacated.

[127] But the pattern is pretty clear.

[128] The way toward mercy in this administration is a connection to the president through celebrity, whether that's political celebrity or that's showbiz, whether that's the base likes them.

[129] That's your best shot.

[130] Is this even allowed?

[131] My impression is that pardons are thoroughly vetted by the Justice Department, by people who understand the law and whether it has been carried out correctly, and that this is a process that goes to many, many steps, and then, at the end, the president signs off on it.

[132] There's almost no check on the president's ability to pardon.

[133] There's virtually none.

[134] Alexander Hamilton call it his sole fiat.

[135] You just do it, and it happens.

[136] And there's a lot of feeling about a president has so much power.

[137] He can declare a treaty, Nolan Void, he can declare an invasion.

[138] But look at what the presidents try to do over the last two years.

[139] I'm establishing new vetting measures to keep radical Islamic terrorists out of the United States of America.

[140] We don't want them here.

[141] He starts out almost immediately with a travel ban.

[142] Months and months follow in the courts.

[143] A federal judge is putting a temporary stop to some of the most important parts of President Donald Trump's executive order banning citizens from seven Muslim majority countries from entering the U .S. The first two are thrown out, basically, and have to be rewritten.

[144] This is something when we'd think that the president would have so much power to do, but there's a judiciary, and they have a check.

[145] We're also working with Congress on tax reform and simplification.

[146] Then the president says, I want tax reform.

[147] Well, Congress basically drove that train.

[148] And I am fully committed to working with Congress to get this job done.

[149] And I don't want to be disappointed by Congress.

[150] Do you understand me?

[151] And then even things that seem to exist wholly within the executive branch.

[152] Uncontrolled immigration.

[153] You see what's going on there?

[154] That's happening quickly.

[155] But a little problem with the courts, not wanting to.

[156] to give us the decisions that should be given, but we're gonna win it.

[157] He declares a new approach in immigration that does not invite court challenges.

[158] It still requires the Department of Homeland Security to draw off the policies and actually carry them out.

[159] But with a pardon, he says it, it's done.

[160] So in a way, whenever he is frustrated or flustered by the bureaucracy of government, by the judiciary, by Congress, when all else fails, there's always the power of pardoning.

[161] It's the one thing he can just do on his own on whatever timetable he wants.

[162] Exactly.

[163] He can say it and it is so.

[164] But even given that power, even knowing that a president can do this automatically and without any obstructions, is this how pardons normally happen?

[165] So the original idea of a pardon was to respond to sort of over severity in the criminal justice system.

[166] Someone whose life was more or less ruined or overly confined by a conviction.

[167] They've done their time.

[168] There's some years out of prison and they want their full life back again.

[169] And it's a measure of official atonement or absolution.

[170] You have become a productive member of society.

[171] You have obligations, responsibilities.

[172] You're fulfilling.

[173] We're going to let you live a full life again.

[174] And so that's how it worked for most of the country's history and in some periods there were hundreds of pardons a year and it was not noticed much it was a routine part of the presidency and it began to change in the 80s the country got into a very prosecutorial mood and federal sentences got stricter the prisons started filling up collateral consequences started piling up for convictions in other words not being able to vote with a felony not being able to get certain jobs with certain felonies in some places you can't get social benefits can't own a gun and while that was going on at the same time the pardon office the sort of escape valve started closing the thinking being that the prosecutors really got a whole of the process they wanted to defend the prosecutions rather than grant clemency and so the majority of pardons that got before the president were recommended for denial so just as more people are getting felony convictions, and the consequences of a conviction are getting more severe.

[175] The country's mood turns against the idea of mercy and of pardoning the people who've been convicted.

[176] Yes.

[177] And even when pardon seekers were good candidates for a pardon by the metrics that you laid out, that they had paid their debt to society, that they were not violent, they were not getting pardoned.

[178] No. And the wait for a decision got longer and longer and longer and longer and it became more necessary to hire a lawyer because the applications were getting more complicated and by the time Obama came into office the number of people getting clemency from presidents had really slowed to a trickle and then he he realized this and in 2014 set up this clemency initiative to give commutations to nonviolent drug offender serving a long prison sentence, and it went on to grant commutations to over 1 ,700 people, and while that was a record number, it was still sort of a drop in the bucket.

[179] I mean, when he left office, he passed on over 8 ,000 commutation petitions and 2 ,000 pardon petitions to Trump, which had not been closed, denied, granted, or filled.

[180] So it's not as if this system that Trump inherited is working all.

[181] that smoothly for people seeking pardons no not at all and in reporting this article when i talked to pardon seekers some of whom had been waiting years with pretty sterling looking applications under the obama administration who had a lot of faith that their life story a seemingly sympathetic president would end with a pardon at first they kind of gave up hope when obama left office and this includes Trump supporters and not.

[182] They saw Obama as their chance.

[183] But now they're looking at this flurry of pardons and they say, well, at least it's something.

[184] But I've just got to completely change up my strategy.

[185] And change it up how?

[186] Instead of trying to stick to these rules and demonstrate through reference letters and everything else that you've led such and such a life, you've got to figure out how to get somebody famous who can get to President Trump.

[187] Is it possible that this new Trump pardoning system, no matter how unusual it seems, might actually be an improvement based on everything you've told us about how much this system has kind of ground to a halt.

[188] Nobody I talked to, no matter how frustrating they found the opaque, slow -moving bureaucratic system sees this celebrity game show thing as better, it's different.

[189] It's another chance.

[190] And it's more transparent that you know the rules now.

[191] Under the bureaucratic system, they didn't really know the rules.

[192] They didn't know why they weren't making progress.

[193] Now they know they're not making progress because they don't know Kim Kardashian.

[194] So the key is, how do you get to some variant of Kim Kardashian?

[195] Right.

[196] And how do you?

[197] Well, I talked to a guy in Dallas who's writing a letter to Sean Hannity.

[198] They're thinking about big Trump supporting churches in the area.

[199] Maybe if you go to church there, they know somebody who knows somebody.

[200] Another guy in Philly knows where Kelly and Conway's beach house is on the Jersey Shore.

[201] Wow.

[202] Drop a package off on her porch with your bio.

[203] So you're talking to people who have felony convictions or criminal convictions who are actively seeking out these kind of science.

[204] doors and celebrities to see if that's their ticket to a pardon.

[205] The fact that they're talking to me at all, a lot of people who are seeking pardons are doing it because they're so embarrassed about it.

[206] They want that history gone.

[207] So to talk to a national reporter is not something they want to do.

[208] They're doing it because they know it's all about self -promotion now.

[209] In other words, even the act of talking to you might be a way to get in front of Trump.

[210] And they'll say that right out.

[211] So you're now part of this Trump pardon system?

[212] Yes.

[213] Hmm.

[214] Comfortably?

[215] I mean, these are decent people.

[216] They want a chance.

[217] They make their cases.

[218] I don't think they're cutting lines.

[219] And the fact is their own lawyers would say, look, you know, you try to do everything you can.

[220] You write your congressman, even before Trump.

[221] You try to figure out a way to get this power.

[222] It's a constitutional power that you had.

[223] technically have access to as a citizen.

[224] And there's nothing wrong with trying to figure out how to do it.

[225] But doing it through celebrity was pretty clearly not the way it was envisioned.

[226] So as we think about it here, in a way, President Trump has replaced one unfair system with another unfair system.

[227] Yes.

[228] But the previous system, the results seemed unfair.

[229] but we don't really know why.

[230] It was unclear why it was working the way it's working.

[231] Now, the unfairness of it, that is, access to fame, gets you what you want, the unfairness is right out there in the open.

[232] Campbell, thank you very much.

[233] Thank you, Michael.

[234] We'll be right back.

[235] Here's what else you need to know today.

[236] On Wednesday, the Trump administration imposed new economic sanctions on Russia for its attempted assassination of a former Russian spy living in Britain using a nerve agent.

[237] The U .S. has already expelled dozens of Russian diplomats over the chemical weapon attack, which nearly killed the former spy, Sergei Skripal, and his daughter.

[238] But it had not yet enforced a 1991 law that requires sanctions against any country that uses chemical weapons until now.

[239] And Today we have an opportunity to make history in the nation New York City being the first city the one that regulate Uber On Wednesday, New York became the first major city in the country to restrict the number of cars for hire through apps like Uber and Lyft after years of outcry over how lightly the new industry has been regulated.

[240] The City Council approved legislation that temporarily freezes the number of new vehicle licenses for the companies and establishes a minimum pay rate for their drivers.

[241] You know, there was a time in New York City when you could, as a recent immigrant to New York City, drive a cab and be able to make it into the middle class to provide a better future for your family, for your children.

[242] The legislation, which was strongly opposed by Uber and its rights, was prompted in part by the suicide of six taxi drivers whose livelihoods were threatened by the new industry.

[243] What we've seen over the last several years is that foothold in the American dream slip away for thousands of drivers.

[244] And it's important that we as a city acknowledge that we have a responsibility here to act.

[245] That's it for the daily.

[246] I'm Michael Barberer.

[247] See you tomorrow.