E12: Sacha Lord's Diary - The King of Nightlife

[0] Hello.

[1] In Chapter 11, I promised you one hell of a guest for Chapter 12, and I have delivered.

[2] This week I sit down with the infamous Sasha Lord.

[3] He is the man behind some of the biggest events in Manchester and beyond.

[4] He's created era -defining events such as Warehouse Project, the UK's biggest metropolitan festival in Park Life, and other European events like Croatia's famed Hideout Festival.

[5] He is the King of Nightlife.

[6] He started out putting on his first events at Manchester's famous Hacienda before moving to reopen Sankis.

[7] After throwing a few warehouse parties, he and his business partner, Sam, decided to put everything on the line and launch the world famous warehouse project.

[8] That first season, they sold 100 ,000 tickets, and the rest is history.

[9] A born entrepreneur, a party mastermind, and a man of the people.

[10] Without further ado, this is Chapter 12.

[11] I'm Steve Bartlett, and this is the Dyer of a CEO.

[12] nobody is listening but if you are then please keep this to yourself thank you so much for joining me sasha it's honestly a bit of an honor i think round our office you're a little bit of a celebrity as well because this crowd here they uh they go to all of your events i've also attended many of your events i've been to park life probably about three times since i've lived since in the five years that i've lived here um i've been to warehouse project on multiple occasions as well and it warehouse project was my first ever experience of a proper good rave i'd say yeah if i don't know if that's a like a sort of a negative word but it was my first like immersive party experience i had in my life so i thank you for that what i what i want to do and what i often do when i when i first meet someone um in order to help sort of hit those key moments and understand your story is set you a bit of a challenge And that's, what I want to do is give you 30 seconds to introduce yourself and to tell your life story.

[13] And what I found useful about this challenge is it helps to hit key, key moments in your life that you think are sort of poignant as such.

[14] Okay.

[15] Are you up for it?

[16] Yeah.

[17] Cool.

[18] So let me just put my timer on, 30 seconds.

[19] Ready when you are.

[20] Okay.

[21] Go.

[22] So born in Manchester, went to a good school, did well at my GCSEs, discovered the hacienda, fucked up big time.

[23] on my air levels because I was partying then I realised actually that's what I want to do for a living had no qualifications put a few student nights on that built up into a night of course Sanky Sob which came warehouse project which came part life and then the rest is history amazing you did that in 23 seconds that's good so you touched on your early years that and your school years so you were a good student that turned bad I was I was a model geek really so I was born in Oldchingham I went to Olchingham Prep Everybody that went to all It was like a sausage factory Everyone that went to Ulching Prep was supposed to go to Manchester Grammar Yeah So, you know I was forced through the education system Quite rarely by my parents They wanted me to have a good education But that's where we differed Because I didn't enjoy education You know, I did it They'd really well at my GCSEs But I never It's really weird And I was asked this question actually last week When I was at school I knew, and this isn't cocky or arrogant, but I knew I was going to do all right for myself, but I didn't know how I was going to do it.

[24] It's really interesting.

[25] So everybody in my class at Manchester Grammar who wanted to go to Oxford or Cambridge and become doctors or accountants or lawyers, and they succeeded in that, I had absolutely no interest whatsoever in doing that.

[26] And I didn't know, I had passions I was very fortunate to be growing up around the whole Manchester explosion so that's the period of like the roses and the Mondays in New Order and all those bands so there was a lot of music happenings at the time in Manchester and I think I just got on the crest of a wave and went with that but there was no I didn't know what I was going to do I used to panic about it really yeah but that's interesting so you had that self I refer to it as self -belief that you sort of knew you were going to be something you're going to do something good, right?

[27] Is that?

[28] Yeah, I didn't.

[29] And again, I don't want to be cocky, but I never envisaged myself struggling in later life.

[30] I always envisaged myself going on nice holidays and doing what I wanted.

[31] And it was, the opposite was never an option.

[32] I honestly just got goosebumps because I've, in previous chapters of this podcast, I've said the same thing.

[33] So I was a kid that was a, I was predicted by Plymstock school to get 12 A stars at GCSE and I was a geek, right?

[34] But then by several years down the line, I was in bottom sets for everything and I was failing on everything.

[35] But that 16 -year -old kid was convinced that he wouldn't need school anyway.

[36] And hearing you say that kind of resonated with me because I didn't know how.

[37] There was no case study looking forward as to how that was going to play out.

[38] But I don't, and that's why, you know, that was quite proud of.

[39] Well, in the eye, I mean, it sounds very similar.

[40] in the eyes of the school, I was most definitely a failure.

[41] I remember the yearbook when it had everybody's name and which university they went to, and there was just a space next to mine, it was blank.

[42] Really?

[43] Almost an embarrassment, but now the school invited me back to give a talk and my face is on the Hall of Fame, which is great.

[44] Crazy.

[45] Alongside Ben Kingsley who played Gandhi, it's just bizarre.

[46] Wow.

[47] Yeah.

[48] And how did your parents feel when you started to flunk a little bit in school?

[49] well it's actually coincided with them separating getting divorced yeah so which wasn't anything to do with me flunking by the way I was I was already on that pathway but yeah no I think they were pretty they never said it but they must have been pissed off because it wasn't a cheap school to go to you know I think there were there were times when they found it hard to to pay for the fees to go through the school so you know there's a bit of of guilt there but I think my mum's pretty proud now and you and you cited sort of a hacienda as being one of the reasons and you have done in interviews one of the reasons why you um school became sort of a second priority almost I guess well yeah so my only interest at school was art that was my only interest and I think it's because I think it's for several reasons I actually did like art contemporary art but also it gave me the flexibility because nobody else liked art um they were all too academic.

[50] So I was in the art halls by myself, which gave me the flexibility to scyve.

[51] And it gave them the flexibility to hang around McDonald's driving down the road and hang around the gates at the girls' school there.

[52] So that was my niche.

[53] And at the time, I was, I dressed like a geek.

[54] You know, if I said, if I gave you a pencil and I said, draw school geek, that was me. You know, the little box black briefcase with those gold you know the little numbers with the locks on them so now I was it and I had this teacher called Mr. McGuinness Stephen McGuinness and he just said to me look you're conforming too much and I remember the conversation he said why are you wearing that stiff jacket you know just get rid of it get rid of that briefcase you know why are you conform not the rest of the boys and then literally over night had changed because I was thinking about this I thought But why am I conforming like everyone else?

[55] You know, I don't want to be like everybody else.

[56] And then it was so bizarre.

[57] I caught him in the Hacienda.

[58] You're joking?

[59] No, which must have been the lowest points of his life as a teacher, seeing one of his pupils in the Hacienda.

[60] But actually, we had a good laugh that nice, and it was the start for something.

[61] What is the, for anybody that doesn't know, what is the, and Hacienda was before my years as well.

[62] So, you know, in my mind, the hacienda is this, it's almost like folklore.

[63] I hear about it all the time, but I've never, I've never experienced it.

[64] What was the hacienda?

[65] So everybody perceives the hacienda to be a hugely successful club that was packed every single night to open its doors.

[66] And in fact, that's not the case at all.

[67] It had a very good run for maybe three, four years.

[68] That was it.

[69] It struggled consistently for money.

[70] It had a lot of major errors with the gangs.

[71] and things like that but during that period and the explosion of Asset House the world was looking at the Hasi Ender and something very special went on within those four walls that a small select number of people understood what was going on there and you've got to remember this was the whole Thatcher period and Manchester was a pretty pissed off, depressed grey city to live in at the time and then became this music and the music came ecstasy and there was an explosion there it was almost a release it was like anarchy under this one roof and you know the police didn't know what were going on they didn't have a clue it's like what you know why are 2 ,000 people converging there and what it's that dance that they're doing and yeah it was we I mean the first time I went there was in 89.

[72] How old are you?

[73] I was 17.

[74] Right.

[75] And I went with a friend of mine called Peter Armistead, who's now a vicar.

[76] You joke, you know?

[77] And we walked in.

[78] And actually, the first time we tried to get in, we got knocked back.

[79] Right.

[80] Because I'd heard about Hacienda and how cool it was, so I borrowed my dad's suit, shirt and tie, thinking that was the look, got to the door, and the door lads were like, listen, dickheads, crack on the edge of it, you know, So I revisited the following week in just a t -shirts and jeans got in.

[81] And what we saw blew us away.

[82] He was like, what's that dance today?

[83] What is that?

[84] What was the dance?

[85] Well, there's no point we're doing it now.

[86] But you were literally throwing your arm in the air consistently.

[87] It was an acid house dance.

[88] Got you.

[89] I know.

[90] I still see it today, yeah.

[91] And it was the first time I'd ever seen all the other clubs in Manchester were playing records that would be introduced by the DJ.

[92] You know, it'd say, and now, you know, we've got to play.

[93] you know happy mondays track when you order drug or whatever and then you'd hear it and then he might announce i don't last orders at the bar and he kept interrupting yeah yeah and then i walked through the doors and this this time the customers were praying to the dj so the dj was playing the records but the dj was possibly more important than the records and i'd never seen this before he was mixing it and it was like this is something really really special um and the interaction between the customer and the DJ, well, we still see it now.

[94] But, yeah, it was, we didn't realize until six months later that everybody was on ecstasy.

[95] You know, we were just two kids from Manchester Grandma walking around and thinking this is great.

[96] Can't wait until Monday to tell everyone.

[97] So that experience at Hacienda sort of changed your, it distracted you in some ways from the academic side of your life and then...

[98] Yeah, I wanted to be different at that point.

[99] something snapped in my head and I remember even up until that day it was always cool and this is the like stupid things that stick in my head it was always seen as cool to sit on the back seat in the bus I don't know why I don't know who made that rule up but actually when I was getting the school bus after that I don't I don't want to be like everybody else who wants to sit on the back seat and think I'm cool do you know what I might stand up for this journey I did you know it just said you can do whatever you want to do and be whatever you want to be so 18 you're in yeah um did you go to university no you didn't did you know no um what was your upon leaving school what was your sort of first job then first job i worked in a clothes shop in oldchingham called flannels right oh yeah flannels and it was the first door and i've got quite a few flannels now and then on a so i did that monday through to saturday and on the sundays through a market in liverpool called stanley dot market selling leather jacket and at your GCSEs or equivalent what was your how did you do very well very well yeah straight -oes and then what exams came after that was it a levels a levels yeah and um i originally wanted to do art english and politics right um after four months the um politics teacher said listen just forget this you don't know what you're doing because i was like all right and i went down to two a levels really didn't enjoy English at all.

[100] And actually, although I loved art, I only got a you at art because I didn't do the coursework.

[101] Right, yeah.

[102] I love the painting.

[103] Yeah, but just the...

[104] I didn't like the write -up.

[105] No, I'd love reading about Matisse or Van Gogh or anyone like that, but I don't want to start writing books about them.

[106] Right.

[107] And so you leave your A -levels with bad grades, terrible grades.

[108] Yeah, yeah.

[109] You go and do normal jobs in the market stores and in Ultringham locally.

[110] How did that go from there to getting involved in the sort of life entertainment scene?

[111] Well, this was another thing.

[112] So another possible life -changing moment, the people who I was serving at Flannels were all very successful people.

[113] And I remember clearly they used to turn up outside the shop that had a glass frontage in Ferraris or Bentleys.

[114] And I used to, I'd be sat there measuring the travel.

[115] I can do turn -ups on trousers by the way or your inside leg and I'd be sat there measuring them thinking to myself and you know bear in mind we're talking about 1990 so it'd be a lot more expensive now but I'd be thinking how on earth can somebody not battering eye lids spending 300 pounds on a suit you know I was just I was earning 120 pounds a week at the time when I was thinking how is that physically possible and then I was thinking to myself do you know what if i had that money i'd be really sensible and i wouldn't spend 300 pounds and i'd say actually that's a load of rubbish it's it tends to be the way yeah but um so yeah again it made me quite um did it make you want nice things yes and have you always wanted nice things always yeah yeah and um now that you have money was there any sort of how did it feel to get money from being a young guy just like me that didn't have it to then getting it how did that feel and what role does money play in your life so I think well first I went through when I started my student nights off I went through a terrible period of you know I'd earn a thousand pounds a week or something but then I'd spend the £1 ,100 a week and then I went through a period of two years when I was starting off where I wasn't paying my credit cards I wasn't paying my water bills I wasn't paying my heating bills bailiffs used to turn up and it was a nightmare and you know I'd have to move I was renting at the time so I'd move so he couldn't find me and there was all these dodging the bullets and stuff and then there was a moment where I thought right well it's time to grow up but I think when you become successful and you reach that point where you no longer have to worry about how much you know I don't have to when I go to a restaurant I don't have to have a look at the prices on the menu or I'm fortunate enough if I see clothes and I don't have to look at the price of the clothes and holidays I can go wear one so but there's always annoyingly when you think you've got to the top of the mountain you never are there's always something much higher and there's always some you know there's always something to strive for and achieve for And I think when you do succeed, you notice a change in friends as well, which isn't particularly very nice.

[116] What's the change you've noticed in friends?

[117] So you're talking about friends that were there when you were?

[118] The people who were there at the outset are my true friends.

[119] They're my real friends.

[120] And they don't care if I've got five P to my name.

[121] They don't care if I've got five millions of my name.

[122] They're my friends.

[123] but when people now see what you do or they've heard your name or they see what you drive you get these these people these hangers on and it's just I reached a point last year where I said do you know what I'm getting rid of it I'm getting rid of everybody I'm cutting them off I changed my number at home and I must I think I've got six friends maybe seven who are my true friends and they're the people I'll speak to at home on the home phone do you think what you do is quite and being an entrepreneur in general is quite a lonely pursuit very lonely yeah and and why is that and talk to me about the sort of loneliness the lonely side of it it comes it comes with a lot of pressure you know and I walks you've kind of just show me around your offices here and I've seen how many staff you've got and it's a phenomenal success and anybody the normal person on the street will walk in and go, wow, Stephen, you're doing so well, this is incredible, but actually, I know, although you may not admit it, that you have this overhead at the back of your mind, and you feel responsible to pay all these people's wages.

[124] And if you don't pay all these people's wages, they can't eat or they can't pay their rent.

[125] So, you know, the more you succeed, the more pressure does come on your shoulders.

[126] And how have you been dealing with that pressure.

[127] So just going to jump back a sec. So you're this young guy seeing these friaries pull up at this clothing shop.

[128] You've now, if we go forward to the point where you're starting to run these, you know, big, big events, the events you throw in this city and across the country, to be completely honest, and, you know, in parts of Europe as well, are tremendous events.

[129] When I look at what park life is, I was saying it earlier on to one of my members of the team, I just can't imagine the amount of like logistics and the amount of people involved in that and the amount of people that have to be paid and you have to make sure people arrive that, all of those things.

[130] And throwing little events is a fucking headache for me. So throwing an event of that scale for me is just something I would never like want to do because the just the moving parts and the pressure.

[131] So how is how is that for you throwing a world, you know, renowned event like sort of park life in terms of pressure?

[132] Well, you know, I, I've got a great business partner, Sam, and, you know, we bounce off each other.

[133] We're chalk and cheese.

[134] You know, Sam and I will probably find it hard to sit and have a pint and have a full conversation because we're, you know, we are chalk and cheese, but it works.

[135] Sam deals with it more the creative and obviously the artist booking and I'm, more logistics, dealing with the council, the authorities.

[136] So it goes hand in hand, but the, I mean, the pressure is, it's unbearable.

[137] Is it?

[138] Yeah.

[139] No one ever sees that, no?

[140] No one ever sees that.

[141] From the outside looking in, it looks like you guys just have an idea and then it happens.

[142] That's the perception, right?

[143] Even when I read your story in the interviews I've read, it was you had an idea to reopen Sanky soap and it happened.

[144] You had the idea for Park Life and it happened.

[145] That's the only story I read.

[146] So what I'm interested in is I know those things don't just happen.

[147] Well, I mean, you read that I had an idea to reopen Sankey's Oak.

[148] And it did reopen, but what you don't read is the night before the Solford gang's petrol brond, the nightclub.

[149] Really?

[150] Yeah, you know, it was bad times then.

[151] But I think we come up, we do come up with the idea.

[152] these ideas we've got we've got a phenomenal team around us that we've created as we've grown they've also grown so you know we can say right we want to do this and then sometimes it's an impossible idea that we come up with but the team managed to resolve it and I think certainly you know when things are amazing when you put when you put an event on and it's an incredible events and the press all brown nosing you there's nothing better yeah forget the money side it's you know it's it's incredible but then there's the other side that when something goes tits up and all of a sudden for a two three week period you missed a bad guy then that's a pretty lonely period talk to me about tits up well 2013 we had um a guy called nick bonnie who came to Warehouse Project when he was at Victoria Warehouse.

[153] And we didn't know at the time, but he'd been taking drugs all day long.

[154] And he became very poor at the Warehouse Project.

[155] And our ambulance took into hospital.

[156] And he didn't make it.

[157] He didn't survive, sadly.

[158] So normal promoters, because it's not a common occurrence, but it happens in every single city.

[159] But I wanted to take the ball by the horns.

[160] and I wanted to educate my customers and other customers to say, look, I know you're going to party, but don't act reckless because you don't really know what you're doing or what you're taking.

[161] This can happen.

[162] So I called a press conference against the advice of our PR company caused a press conference.

[163] Hell, they're at the Malmaison.

[164] And Sam and I were sat there with all these cameras pointing at us and all the radio stations had the little mobile phones in front of us and my opening gambit was I thanked people for coming and I just wanted them to help me spread the word whether it's on the TV whether it's on the radio whether it's in print and try and educate the clubbers who are going out these days and of course that didn't happen they completely demonised it and I remember the front page in the Manchester Review News the day afterwards what was it now super club death boss speaks out or something like that or death club super boss speaks out and it was on all those sandwich boards around town and i just people didn't realize that when you go through something like that it actually affects you really badly um you know you do question well and sam and i question we debated whether to carry on the the warehouse budget season that season because somebody who came to our events didn't make it and if we haven't put that events on would Nick still be alive to this day?

[165] The answer that I came up with was no, because he would have gone to another party anyway, where perhaps at least he had a fighting chance with us because he had paramedics, we had the ambulance.

[166] Whereas if he had been somewhere else, then at least he wouldn't have been given that chance.

[167] So yeah, negative do happen.

[168] Did you get a chance to speak to his family or to anybody close to him at all?

[169] No. No, I didn't do.

[170] when through the press we spoke but that was it but there was nothing negative from his family at all in fact from memory I think his mum was a drugs worker so she understood but yeah not so pleasant not a pleasant few weeks I can imagine I can't even imagine what that's like to to deal with and it because it's that as you've I can see there you've you've you've done a little bit of soul searching to figure out whether, whether, I guess you could, I guess the question I'd ask myself is like, could I have done more?

[171] Is there, is it exactly the same?

[172] Like, is it worth continuing?

[173] But, you know, as you said, these things happen in a world where people party.

[174] And it's...

[175] Correct.

[176] And do you know, the not annoying thing because it has to be acknowledged, it happens, but because it was all over the press, worldwide, by the way, not locally.

[177] the warehouse project now has this stigma attached to it to the average, but not our clubbers, but the average Joe on the streets.

[178] That doesn't come, yeah.

[179] Yeah, that doesn't come.

[180] They think a warehouse project, you know, it's just full of people that take loads of drugs.

[181] And I'm not going to say there aren't drugs in there because there are in every single dance venue in the country.

[182] But you've been yourself.

[183] You know, it's a very happy experience in there.

[184] No, it was amazing.

[185] Honestly, it was amazing.

[186] And it was, honestly, I remember, But being there and genuinely having the thought that I didn't know places like this existed, I didn't know you could have an experience like this.

[187] And I went back several, several times.

[188] And I still go now.

[189] And it's moved over.

[190] It's moved over to...

[191] Like a store street now.

[192] Yeah.

[193] So it's gone back into the tunnel, isn't it?

[194] Yes.

[195] Yeah.

[196] When I first went, it was over by Old Trafford.

[197] Which was the venue I just spoke about then?

[198] Yeah.

[199] So that must have been 2012 -13.

[200] And so dealing with that tragedy.

[201] how do you carry on from there was did warehouse take some time out or did it no it didn't take any time out in fact um i i went on a mission and i and i still do now so um we do random drugs tests um back of house at warehouse project right um i work very closely with the loop charity and you know we've got hundreds of thousands which sounds pathetic when i've looked at the figures that you just show me and your social media channels now.

[202] We have the ears of the 18 to 30, 18 to 23 clubbers in the UK.

[203] And they look at what warehouse project does.

[204] So if I can feed a message out to say, I don't know, in Liverpool there being these red tablets with a handbag on the front of them, they're lethal, avoid them, we do that.

[205] I'm not scared of doing that.

[206] I know other promoters or club owners who think, well, if you put a message out like that, you're saying these drugs in your venue and the authorities won't like it.

[207] that's not the case actually the authorities appreciate you doing that um so talk about those moments and you reference loneliness following those moments um how do you how do you have you dealt with those tough moments in a personal way what what's your support system like is there an internal dialogue have you had therapy do you go and speak to somebody is it your family what's the i i'm um no i'm supposed i'm a bit like a hedgehog right i just had to think think it through myself.

[208] The gym helps me a lot.

[209] So I'd probably go five, six times a week.

[210] You wouldn't think it looking at me. No, I do.

[211] I actually, I do actually look like you're a really good show.

[212] That to me is a period where if you have a lot of tension, go and punch a punch bag for 30 minutes.

[213] You do feel better.

[214] If you jog, it's a good time to think.

[215] Your internal dialogue must be pretty good, though.

[216] So the voice that's talking back to you when you're thinking things through must be very, very good at sort of rationalising things and not like self -blaming or beating yourself up or worrying too much?

[217] Well, I write a lot of lists.

[218] Right.

[219] There's nothing better than, if you think about things in your mind, you'll start forgetting things.

[220] But if it's written down with a pencil in front of you, let's say you have five or six challenges to get through, you know, I go through it and then I cross those challenges off.

[221] And, you know, and, you That's the way I do it.

[222] I just look at everything on paper and try and work it out.

[223] Right.

[224] And are you in a relationship?

[225] Yes.

[226] Married, single?

[227] No. I'm in a...

[228] I've got a girlfriend.

[229] Oh, okay.

[230] Okay.

[231] And how is she found?

[232] One of the things I always find really interesting, and this is, again, me soul searching for myself, because I continually fail in relationships.

[233] I've gone from one failed relationship to another to another to another to another.

[234] And I was almost at one point thinking that it's impossible for me to have a good relationship whilst running a business, how have you found that process of being incredibly busy but trying to compromise when you have to?

[235] Well, I think it's, I said this last week, actually.

[236] I am adamant and there are many entrepreneurs who disagree with me, but I don't believe what they're telling me because you'd never know what goes on behind people's doors of the homes, but I think it is impossible to throw your life into your work and at the same time, hand in hand have a very successful personal relationship.

[237] I don't think that's possible.

[238] I think you either decide to put all your efforts and time into one or the other.

[239] You can't do two.

[240] You can't spin both plates.

[241] And, you know, I've been seeing someone out for eight months.

[242] And I think she kind of likes what I do for a living and I try and share you know, it's quite...

[243] People find, people from the outside find it exciting what I do.

[244] Obviously, see i'm in it but but that's a fucking nightmare yeah that's what i mean though the finding it exciting you're a successful guy you go to the gym very appealing proposition but then when you become part of it it's a different story because you're you must be tremendously you know focused at times you must have a lot on your mind you must be quite distant even when you're in the room with this person um so the experience can't be as exciting and wonderful right or am i wrong no um so my breathing space.

[245] It's my holiday.

[246] Right.

[247] So we had an amazing holiday back in January 10 days where I literally just switched off.

[248] That's it.

[249] And I managed to do that for the first time and quite a long time.

[250] And there's a couple of other holidays booked, you know, coming up.

[251] But no, she understands that my laptop always has to be open.

[252] And if I'm being completely frank, hers is always open as well.

[253] And she's always looking at when it's misguided or pretty little thing or Zara.

[254] And apparently, I don't understand why she's looking at the same websites every day but apparently the clothing changes every day and then tomorrow 10 bags of clothes will arrive and then 11 go back i don't get i don't understand it i'm all fashion and and what is it about you that made you get here and other people that desire to have the life that you have and this is a bit of a sort of a self -diagnosis i guess what is it about sasha that's made sasha sit here being the success that he is versus someone else that has a desire but isn't sat where you are?

[255] Well, I think most definitely luck has played a massive part in, you know, where I am now.

[256] I think being in the right place at the right time.

[257] I also think as well...

[258] What was that right place?

[259] The Hansianda.

[260] Okay, right.

[261] As an inspiration?

[262] As an inspiration, yeah.

[263] And then not just there.

[264] You know, I do reference that a lot, but there have been.

[265] several key moments throughout my life for example working at flannels and seeing these people coming in and the nice cars and just it gave me a kick up the ass really to to go out and just grab it um but yeah sorry what's the question basically like i'm trying to figure out what it is that makes you successful and i read i read online in an interview that you did about your attention to detail and things like that and um being i guess being the person that protects the standard well i think i don't like to use the word um oCD right because i don't have real oCD but i'm certainly i like everything to be perfect and if it's not perfect it really pisses me off because it means you could do better um and the other thing is that i know so many people who work nine to five jobs but actually they have great ideas and they share their ideas with me and say what you think about this i'm thinking they're doing this and they never actually do it and I'll see them five years down the line later and they're still doing the same job that they hated when they spoke to me about the great idea so I did an interview last week and they asked me about this and my recommendation was anybody that has a good idea like yourself go and do it because it's not by the way because what you've done here is absolutely amazing but you're 25 and if everything fucked up tomorrow okay you'd be absolutely mortified but you're 25 you know the world your oyster you can go out and achieve whatever you need why do you think it is that people don't end up doing what they they dream to do i think you can get i understand people like living in the safety net um of a 9 to 5 job knowing you're going to come out at the end of the month with x amounts out of that x amount you pay your mortgage or your rent you've bought your food you know what your bills are and you've got that in your pocket i think it's possibly the fear.

[266] But then I do, I question myself, this is going deep now.

[267] So I can be sat on Princess Parkway.

[268] I've left the office.

[269] I've had a ticket counts.

[270] We've had a great day.

[271] I'm sat in my car.

[272] You know, I have a, have a car that sticks out.

[273] So what car is it?

[274] I have to tell you?

[275] 100%.

[276] A Ferrari.

[277] Oh, nice.

[278] Yeah.

[279] So you finally got the Ferrari.

[280] Yeah.

[281] Nice.

[282] So I'm sat there in this Ferrari and the bus is next to me. Right.

[283] And the people on the bus are looking at me and thinking, you bastard.

[284] But then I'm looking at those people on the bus thinking, well, actually, you're going home now to your loved ones.

[285] You can have your dinner on the table at 6 .30 and you've left your work behind.

[286] Yeah.

[287] And you don't see your work again until 9 o 'clock tomorrow.

[288] So the evening's yours and the morning's yours and you can do what you want and you don't have any stress or worry because you're getting your pay packet at the end of the month you may have the the worries of paying the bills and things like that but who's who is who's chosen the right path now everybody's going to say the guy slats and the frari chosen the right path i don't know what the answer is from being honest i've always thought that it was just subjective i just think i i i don't think entrepreneurship is for everybody yeah um because i don't think some people would enjoy because i enjoy the bullshit we refer to it as such a negative thing But I've almost got addicted to it.

[289] I've almost got addicted to the challenge and things being tough.

[290] And my tough days in hindsight are always my favourite ones.

[291] They're the ones where I stretched myself and I came outside of my comfort zone.

[292] I don't think everybody would enjoy that experience.

[293] I think that I'm a bit of a loner in the same way that you've kind of described it being a lonely experience.

[294] I'm really good at spending all Saturdays sat at my desk on my own.

[295] And I enjoy that.

[296] And I think that's a bit weird.

[297] I think I've got a bit of a sickness.

[298] in that regard.

[299] Do you know what I mean?

[300] Because surely I should want to go out and see my friends and see my family.

[301] No, I just want to sit on my computer.

[302] And so I just think it's a subjective thing.

[303] It is.

[304] I think you'll reach a stage, Stephen, when, because believe it or not, I know you can't tell looking at me, but I am a bit older than you know.

[305] I know what you're going to say.

[306] So you will reach a stage because you're in the aggressive stage at the moment and you're building something fantastic.

[307] I know what you're going to say, yeah.

[308] What's not going to say?

[309] So I think what you're going to say, and this is what I've been told before, where other things, I will, I will want to, I won't be able to do what I do now, basically.

[310] And when I'm slightly older.

[311] And in some respects, 18 year old Steve doesn't operate like 25 year old Steve does.

[312] 18 year old Steve was the aggressive, the savage.

[313] 25 year old Steve's a little bit more weathered.

[314] He likes, you know, to lay down a little bit more.

[315] But I'm still super aggressive, but not compared to 18 year old Steve.

[316] So when I think about what 30 -year -old Steve will look like, I hope that I'm not doing this, because I think that would be a very sad thing if I was still operating in the same way that I do now.

[317] Yeah.

[318] I think there's much more to life than...

[319] It'll come, and I also think, you know, what's happened to me, I don't know how it's happened.

[320] I can only think it's an age thing.

[321] But in the last two years, I've noticed now I spend half my time giving advice to people so because of you know where I am what's achieved what I've been through people are looking at me as almost an example and they're asking me questions and I really enjoy giving people my advice whether it's right or wrong I don't know but yeah I'm doing more of these interviews and more talks at universities and I think people quite like the idea that I achieve something by fucking up in the first place.

[322] Of course, yeah, because you're the underdog that, you know what I mean.

[323] And people have a very, they have like this, almost this picture of what a successful person, their life looks like.

[324] And it starts with being handed a silver spoon and then getting amazing grades and going to Oxford.

[325] And then, so anyone that shatters that perception is they become super relatable.

[326] They become someone that is just like me. Yeah.

[327] And they become the role models.

[328] And I think that's exactly what a lot of people see in you.

[329] And I see it in you as well.

[330] just hearing your journey today there's been so many times I thought that makes sense now because of my own experiences and my own perception of the world on that point if you were to give advice to somebody and this person is you when you were 17 years old let's say yeah and 18 years old neither what would that advice have been let's say it's 16 years old I think you stumped me this is perfectly do you know what I wouldn't I wouldn't have made many changes I don't think because I was going to I was actually going to say I wouldn't have done this I wouldn't do that where I'd made mistakes but you'll know yourself every time you make a mistake you learn from that mistake and it actually improves you to move on so no would I have said to myself go and do your A level at 16 make sure you get your rail levels no would you say that to your own kid now well i don't have any kids but if you weren't have a kid if i had a kid no i would i would much rather my kids or kids had fun at school rather than i mean obviously i don't want them to completely flunk out and you know yeah but you know i would want them to have more fun than sit down and study all day long, then go home and then do homework all night long.

[331] Go outside, kick a football around, just to have fun.

[332] If life isn't about, because when I didn't have money, I made the foolish mistake of thinking that that was really important.

[333] And I thought, I wrote my diary when I was 18, I want to be a millionaire before I'm 25, I want to arrange over to be my first car, all these things.

[334] And I look back on my diary now, and I just think, what a terrible goal to write for the next seven years of your life and upon arriving at the point where I have those things I've now started doing a bit of soul searching I think in myself and asking what okay if I'm not doing this for monetary gain then why am I doing this why am I building a big business and why am I making the money what's the point in it all and as someone that's slightly wiser than I am what's your answer to that well look how many people you're helping along the way look how many staff you've got here who are paying the bills because of you and you want to you know you went through really you went through tough times we were speaking before you know when you were starting off so you're proving to yourself that you can do it so you're just beating yourself you know you're racing against yourself and i think that's that's important that you always better yourself and is that for you is that the fulfillment from this for you that you're beating There's nothing better than if I'm walking through Manchester or London and I see somebody who was at my school and I don't have anything against those people but they're now lawyers and they're wearing really boring suits with a really shitty tie and I just look at them and I just think that's great you know I'm so happy and it's not I think the freedom is important as well obviously you're tied to this business so I want to say it's a prison sentence but you know it's a big ball in chain but if you want to just stick a track suit on now and run up and down the Eden's gate you can do that and no one can say Steve and you're fired just do what you want to do I don't suggest you do that by the like because you'd get some really weird looks.

[335] No, well, yeah.

[336] There's a couple of people in the office walking around in tracksuits and they're still here, so it's fine within our policy.

[337] Is what are your sort of personal ambitions then?

[338] You've achieved so much.

[339] And I think where you're at, people would, you know, this won't mean much to you, but people would do anything to be in a position where you're at.

[340] And you must get so bored of people saying things like you're so proud of yourself, et cetera, et cetera, because as you said, it's just a battle amongst yourself.

[341] You're not competing against, and another, you know, a competitor, you're battling Sasha every day.

[342] What is Sasha's next big battle then and his next big sort of ambition?

[343] So, I mean, I'm really proud of my city, Manchester, and Greater Manchester, you know, the Ten Burroughs.

[344] And I think, you know, I've worked for, my first night was July the 4th, 94.

[345] So this would be 24 years.

[346] I was two years old.

[347] Oh, I don't really say anything, is it.

[348] I was one and a half, bloody hell.

[349] So, yeah, I think I've seen everything come and go in the city, and I've seen the city develop in a very, very good way, especially since the bomb, actually.

[350] That was a turning point for the city.

[351] So I'm talking about the IRA bomb, by the way.

[352] Oh, okay, right.

[353] Yeah, so I would like to give back to the city what the city has given me because the city gave me lots of chances that other cities wouldn't.

[354] There are lots of other cities.

[355] that would not allow somebody to put a rave on in a car park.

[356] Sure.

[357] You know, when I wanted to reopen Sanky Soap that had been opened from 94 to 98, when it wasn't mine, the police shut it down because there was guns and there was all sorts going on, the drug dealing, and I wanted to reopen it.

[358] And I proved to the police that could do that.

[359] Most cities wouldn't allow that to happen, that it's shut, it's staying shut.

[360] So we have a very, very forward -thinking, Labour -run council in Manchester.

[361] And they've always understood the importance of the nighttime economy.

[362] And especially, and I'll reference it again, but looking back at the days of the Hacienda, when the world was looking at us as the music leaders, that was recognised how important it is for the city to understand and support nighttime economy.

[363] And that's been consistent throughout, even when councils have come and go and change seats, you know, that has been recognised.

[364] So I'd like to give back the city what they've let me achieve.

[365] I think you'd be a great ambassador for the city.

[366] Thank you.

[367] Speaking personally, because, yeah, you've got a very sort of authentic relationship with the city.

[368] And I don't think many people that are sort of better placed to understand both sides of the spectrum, if you know what I mean, in terms of what the city needs, but also what the people that live within the city are looking for.

[369] Great.

[370] So definitely have my support.

[371] Thank you.

[372] Appreciate that.

[373] If you, I had another question, which I tend to ask everybody I meet.

[374] It gives me a bit of a perspective on who your sort of idols are and such.

[375] If you had a dinner party and there is six seats, right?

[376] One of them is mine, because I'm cooking.

[377] The other one's yours.

[378] The other four seats for the dinner party, Dead Are Alive, who would you be inviting to the table?

[379] David Bowie.

[380] Right, why?

[381] Oh, he's a fucking genius.

[382] Okay, fair enough.

[383] I mean, he reinvented himself so many times.

[384] against all the odds as well by the way I think Prince would be there I mean you're going to think this is absolutely pathetic now but I know we do have something in common 11 or hate him Jose would be at the table Merino yes oh I love Mariniio we have the same birthday really?

[385] Yeah I've met him twice actually Have you?

[386] Yeah what's he like not what you'd expect the loveliest guy really nice genuine guy although I had got his daughter guest list for the MTV Award so maybe you had something to do with that so where are we Bowie Prince Jose I've met her before but maybe Grace Jones do you do you still and this is a bit of a segue because I just crossed my mind when you said about Prince and Povey.

[387] Do you still get the same excitement from putting on your events as you did when you started?

[388] No. You don't?

[389] No. How has it changed?

[390] Definitely not.

[391] But now that it's a lot more serious because they're a lot bigger.

[392] You know, you can put, part life with 20 ,000 people when it started at Platfields one day.

[393] Do you get anxiety in the lead up to the event?

[394] Very much so.

[395] Yeah.

[396] And how do you deal with that?

[397] Is it just, again, that sort of in a monologue going to the gym?

[398] Going to the gym and week leading up to it, red wine does appear.

[399] And you must be thinking about everything that could possibly go wrong.

[400] Everything, yeah, everything.

[401] So during Park Life, you know, this is an example, actually, how people think.

[402] And there's nothing wrong with this because people don't understand how it works and the intensity of it.

[403] But one of my girlfriend's friends said, oh, we're looking forward to Park Life.

[404] We can hang out with you that weekend.

[405] Oh, you must think.

[406] You know, I'm responsible for 85 ,000 people every day.

[407] day for two days 300 plus artists you know it is there's literally a hospital on site you know there's 84 catering units 13 stages in music and you think I'm going to hang out with you for two days are you mad so for those two days there's something called event control which is an arena that we set up where there's a wall of CCTV cameras watching everywhere throughout the park and then everybody has their own desk or the statutory authorities so there's a desk commanded by the police en masse you know the fire service environmental health security my desk and it's in the middle of the room you have this huge map and when something goes wrong we all stand around it and it's right here's the challenge how do we overcome it what's the worst thing that's ever gone wrong um last year was last year was a nightmare so we had Frank Ocean refusing to go on until something until we'd resolved something so he went on 38 minutes late I heard about this on Twitter yeah so he went on 38 minutes late until we resolve something for him right I can't share what that was do you know what it actually it was something technical I actually can't remember what it was it was not him being a diva or anything No, it was something technical, and I get why he didn't want to go on, because it had to be perfect for him, as an artist.

[408] So because of that, he insisted still on doing the full set, which meant I'd be breaking the 11 o 'clock curfew.

[409] So I had to think of something like, how do I explain to the head of the council here now?

[410] I want to go over the 11 o 'clock curfew because I will get the bollicking of my lifetime.

[411] and I could be fine they might not let me do this again next year and then at exactly the same time there was a tragedy where somebody had fallen on one of the metro link lanes in the city centre nothing to do with park life so none of the trams were working the tram stopped working so at the same time then I had 20 ,000 people who had to walk back into Manchester so out of that I managed to convince the council that a staggered egress would be a lot better than actually kicking everyone out at the same time and 20 ,000 people walking back into town stagger the egress out and do that way and that in that moment when frank ocean is you know he's not going to go on until this is fixed this is your problem yeah right this is your problem to deal with the buck stops with you presumably yeah And I imagine...

[412] Well, it stopped with me and Sam and the team, but probably because I'm known on social media, I'm the one that gets the agro from, you know, the customer, if something goes wrong, they come for me. It's an immense amount of pressure.

[413] It really mustn't be a pleasant experience for you.

[414] It is when it's good, though.

[415] Yeah, and I imagine when it's over.

[416] Yes, yeah, yeah.

[417] And what's the, what's the big vision then for park life?

[418] Where do you want to take it?

[419] It can't go any bigger.

[420] Part life will always remain in Manchester.

[421] It's a question, I guess, asked a lot.

[422] It's going nowhere.

[423] It's the biggest metropolitan festival in the country now.

[424] And I'm really proud of that.

[425] Tremendous.

[426] Proud Manchester has that.

[427] So in terms of part life, it's all about the thing we can improve is the production.

[428] So we've got some really nice bits coming in this year.

[429] Excited.

[430] Yeah, some extra special stages that just look incredible.

[431] They're very costly.

[432] So Sam went to see Kendrick Lamar last week.

[433] Oh, wow.

[434] In London, actually, in the next day, he firm me up.

[435] He's like, right, that's it, main stage.

[436] We're going to have it exactly the same as Kendrick Lamar's stage.

[437] And that costs millions.

[438] So we've had to find sort of a fine line between the two to keep him happy and to keep the budget happy.

[439] But yeah, that's how we can improve on it.

[440] Your personal life, you're, how old are you now, 46?

[441] 46.

[442] You look really good.

[443] You look about 30.

[444] So I guess that's going to the gym every day.

[445] Healthy eating.

[446] Healthy.

[447] Kettle, but you look tanned as well, which is really good.

[448] That's probably been on a holiday at some point recently.

[449] Or is that just a natural?

[450] Well, holiday, but also the sunbed centre next to waiters and altering them.

[451] Nice.

[452] See, this is all about honesty.

[453] I would have a bit of that.

[454] That's the depth I was looking for.

[455] Okay, and my last question for you then, as someone, again, that is significantly more wise than I am, and has been, especially within the Manchester scene, in the business world longer than I have, what one piece of advice would you give to me as I continue on my own sort of personal journey and to sort of young entrepreneurs that are like me starting out?

[456] I think just do exactly what you're doing now and whatever belief you've got is quite clearly working.

[457] And anybody around you will say, well, Stephen, I wouldn't do this.

[458] I wouldn't take on the 10 people because think of the wage bill and the overhead, fuck them, just do it.

[459] Because it's succeeding now and, you know, cut out all those negative people.

[460] You know, I didn't have a great relationship with my dad, but he always used to say, if you hang around with shit, you'll end up in the shit.

[461] And it's true, if you hang around with negative people that want to pull you down and question everything you do, you'll be pulled down with them.

[462] So it's that circle, I guess.

[463] yourself and just surround yourself by as you have done here you know i've met your colleagues and your partners just surround yourself by like -minded people who want to go out and make a difference that would be my advice thank you so much i appreciate it no thank you um i cannot wait for park life this year i saw the lineup and the the reaction from the team here kind of says at all i'm of the group here i'm probably the one that's less involved with uh with music events because of time and I struggle to make the time for it but the people that are the hardcore park life fans here have never been and I'm not just saying this to bullshit to your face like they've never been more excited and I did a bit of a test to the guys I was like have you guys all seen the lineup they're like oh my god it's sick this year so that's a tremendous credit for you I want to thank you on behalf of Manchester as well because you've brought a lot to Manchester even out you know bringing the having the festivals here and having the events here brings a lot to the wider economy as well.

[464] You've also been a tremendous advocate and thought for the city on a wider stage, but you're also approachable, which I find really fascinating.

[465] The fact that you even came and did this, the fact that you respond on Twitter, that it's you that's tweeting, I think is something that a lot of sort of leaders, and especially leaders within a city, could take notes from.

[466] So on behalf of Manchester, I just want to say thank you so much and keep inspiring us and keep helping put the city on the map, because I think it's going to have.

[467] help a lot of other young entrepreneurs to come try and follow in a similar footsteps.

[468] No, thank you very much.

[469] Thank you so much.

[470] I appreciate it.

[471] Thank you so much for listening to this chapter.

[472] It means the world to me. If you can, please do subscribe to the podcast and you'll be notified the minute it's released.

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