LIVE FROM DALLAS: Gordon Keith

[0] I love you.

[1] You guys, I, from the bottom of my heart, it's so flattering that you guys would drive down here and buy tickets and listen to Yacht Rock to make me happy.

[2] It is really mind -blowing to us, for real.

[3] We sit in an attic, as you know, and so to come out and see like nearly 2 ,000 arm cherries in the flesh, it's really incredible.

[4] It's very heartwarming.

[5] I also brought with me the tiniest, human, I know.

[6] She is a miniature person with a gigantic brain.

[7] Please welcome my soulmate, Monica Padman.

[8] Don't we look funny next to each other?

[9] You guys, so many of them in one space.

[10] I know.

[11] Are you guys hooking up?

[12] That's what we want.

[13] We do.

[14] I'm going to bring out somebody that many of you will already know because he is a Dallas legend.

[15] Love this man. The legendary Gordon Keith is here tonight.

[16] Please join us on the couch.

[17] I'm going to give Monica the mic back.

[18] So I fell in love with Gordon prior to even knowing that he, A, lived in Texas, Dallas, Texas, or that you were a radio personality here.

[19] Because Gordon did.

[20] A lot of radio personalities out there.

[21] This is stocked full of radio personality.

[22] personalities.

[23] Gordon, I don't know if you still do this, but when you're promoting a movie, you do these junkets and you're at a hotel for two days straight and you sit in a room and then they bring in journalists after journalists after journalists and you do six -minute interviews and you do it for about 10 hours.

[24] You do a couple hundred interviews a day.

[25] And then I discovered Gordon because he would do interviews with people and they were the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life.

[26] He out Will Ferrelled Will Ferrell.

[27] For anyone who's not seen this YouTube video, I would not want anyone to pull their phone out during this performance, but go to the bathroom and watch it.

[28] It's the funniest interview ever, ever filmed.

[29] Will was in town promoting Casa Demy Padre.

[30] Yeah, Casa Demy Padre.

[31] You guys, you're going to get home tonight.

[32] Even if this thing's a bust, just learning about this video will be a big win.

[33] You'll be in bed with your partner tonight, like, I don't know, it's not as fun in person.

[34] I don't go see a podcast.

[35] I thought he'd be taller.

[36] Anyways, I guess we should check out this video.

[37] I can't believe he wore overalls.

[38] What is he thinking?

[39] And then you'll watch this video, and then it'll all have been worth the effort.

[40] Indeed.

[41] And so my wife and I were obsessed with this video, and then we started requesting that George, we basically, basically said, we won't do a press junket unless Gordon Keith is there.

[42] And I am, the most disappointed I've ever been in myself was when you interviewed us, because I just couldn't get through it.

[43] You're too good.

[44] You know, you said this because you laughed in it, and you hated yourself for breaking in the middle of it and laughing at a joke, and it was on the Willem Defoe line, I think it was.

[45] Well, I can list you a few.

[46] Just refresh their memory.

[47] You sat down with Kristen and I, and you said.

[48] I said you guys are known as kind of the, you know, the third greatest Hollywood couple going right now.

[49] Yeah.

[50] And then you said, who?

[51] Behind who?

[52] Yeah.

[53] So then I have to come up with who.

[54] And I said, well, Brandgelina, because at the time they were.

[55] Yeah.

[56] And I guess whoever Willem Defoe is dragging around these days.

[57] Whoever Willem Defoe is dragging around right now.

[58] It's if he only dates like Weekend and Bernie types.

[59] Like, he's physically...

[60] It doesn't matter who the other person is.

[61] It's not a good look anymore, actually, for him.

[62] As long as Willem Defoe is dragging him around, they're the...

[63] So that one got me, but then even worse is you said, um, uh, tracheosomy, and I said, don't you mean tracheotomy?

[64] And you said, no. What's up?

[65] It said tracheostomy, uh, because tracheotomy is the procedure, and tracheosomy.

[66] Diastomy is the actual whole.

[67] I couldn't really recover from that.

[68] Kristen did much, much better in the interview than I did.

[69] But she laughed too.

[70] She's so, you know, you know how she is.

[71] She's so personable and fun.

[72] And wealthy.

[73] Mm -hmm.

[74] And wealthy.

[75] That's why I'm with her.

[76] Yeah.

[77] You and I, I think you and I have a lot in common, oddly enough.

[78] Yes.

[79] We both slept with Kristen Bell.

[80] That's right.

[81] That's right.

[82] we we both guys it was at the same time there's no reason to feel permission I'm not learning something no no no he was there he was invited into the marital bed he was observing it started off as you observing we should say that medicinal and medical I just wanted to watch and see how it went down I just wanted to see how that yeah how does Hollywood people do it right yeah and then you were shocked to find a tag team and then I entered in.

[83] That's right.

[84] Because you had to go make a sandwich.

[85] Yes.

[86] Also, I have...

[87] By the way, you...

[88] Can I just say this?

[89] Yeah.

[90] What a great job you did sleep with my wife.

[91] Yeah.

[92] I've never heard...

[93] I've never seen her glow like that.

[94] I know, yeah.

[95] That's called an orgasm.

[96] Oh.

[97] I'll tell...

[98] Yeah, it's...

[99] Great.

[100] So, I've heard that word.

[101] Correct.

[102] Yes.

[103] Orgasm.

[104] Which is different from organism.

[105] Correct.

[106] And you you probably always confused.

[107] I've always had it confused.

[108] Right.

[109] I thought, My job's done.

[110] She's an organism.

[111] Okay, but then there's also another interesting thing is that you were discovered by Ashton Coucher.

[112] Is that kind of fair to say?

[113] That's fair to say, yeah.

[114] Okay.

[115] Because you're on punked?

[116] I was on punked, yeah.

[117] All right.

[118] Thank you, guys.

[119] I think you know that I had a complex about that.

[120] Now you're being supportive and I appreciate it.

[121] You had a complex about that?

[122] I really did.

[123] Why?

[124] Because when I started doing movies, the interviewers would be, they would say like, you know, what's it like to act for the first time and I always got offended by that.

[125] Like I felt like, mind you, I now realized it was all my own insecurities.

[126] I thought they were implying that I had been on like Big Brother.

[127] Right.

[128] That's what I thought they thought, because I was insecure.

[129] And I have to confess, that's what I thought was true.

[130] Of course, of course.

[131] I didn't do quite enough research apparently.

[132] Good, I would prefer to go back to having that insecurity, so thank you.

[133] But I have an interesting Ashton Kutcher story.

[134] Not near as great as the ones you have.

[135] But when I was doing those junkets, there were several people who took an odd interest in me after I interviewed them.

[136] Okay.

[137] And one of them was Ashton Kutcher.

[138] Doesn't surprise me, please.

[139] I interviewed him and Rob Cordry for some movie, and I don't know what movie it was.

[140] Citizen Kane.

[141] Right.

[142] That's the one with Rosebud as the ending.

[143] They smoke Rosebud brand weed.

[144] I did a search for Rosebud on you porn.

[145] It's not the same thing.

[146] Yes, it's not.

[147] So I, and afterwards, after I finished interviewing him, of course, you go back to the green room and eat some horrible food, and somebody came in and said, hey, I'm Ashton Coucher's whatever person, right?

[148] I'm Ashton Couture's assigned human.

[149] Okay.

[150] And Ashton wants your number.

[151] He thinks you're too big to be in Dallas.

[152] Yeah.

[153] Now, okay, okay, let's everyone just...

[154] And you know what I said?

[155] Hold on, let's...

[156] Okay.

[157] Let's pause when agitated.

[158] Okay.

[159] And let's just...

[160] Let's say that he probably didn't mean anything bad about Dallas.

[161] And that's fair, yes.

[162] He's a nice guy.

[163] Yeah, yeah.

[164] So, I mean, I'm really flattered, you know?

[165] It's Ashton Coucher.

[166] He thought he saw something in me, and he wanted.

[167] it's my number.

[168] And so I said to the person, I said, you know, hey, will you please tell Mr. Coutcher to fuck off?

[169] Insulting Dallas is not going to do it for me. So he got my number.

[170] He did.

[171] Despite your, yeah.

[172] Despite my vulgarity.

[173] And I never heard from him.

[174] Yeah.

[175] Double trick.

[176] Yeah.

[177] I would have left Dallas in a second.

[178] I can only imagine you packed those bags.

[179] the second you got in the dog.

[180] I mean, I was ready.

[181] I bet Monday morning you're like, I don't know, hon, should I go to work?

[182] I mean, the cook's dog's going to call.

[183] I don't even need to go in the next day, do I?

[184] I mean, could go in.

[185] I guess it'd be cool to go in.

[186] What if I miss Ashton's call?

[187] Can't afford to miss that call.

[188] Right.

[189] So I never heard from him.

[190] But I thought it was interesting that he did approach me and he actually followed through with you and put you on a show.

[191] Yeah, yeah.

[192] He took me out of that backwater Detroit.

[193] No, I was already long in L. But I'm trying to remember the actual steps, because from your point of view, did you receive a call and were you told Kristen and Dax won't do a press junk unless you're there?

[194] Did that call come through?

[195] No, the way I remembered is this, is that I first saw a tweet.

[196] You tweeted out something about this is the freaking, except you cursed and I don't appreciate it.

[197] This is the friggin funniest interview I've ever seen Gordon Keith as the Rock of Gibraltar or something like that.

[198] Okay.

[199] And you just tweeted that and you had a link there to the Will Ferrell interview.

[200] Okay, right, right.

[201] Now, I had already interviewed you and Kristen for when in Rome.

[202] I had sat down and interviewed both of you.

[203] Yes, but not in the...

[204] And neither of those impressed you enough.

[205] You didn't give me your best.

[206] You left your best with Will Ferrell down.

[207] right here yeah yeah you didn't give me the full will feral treatment right i do remember having had an interview with you and you were slightly up but it wasn't the full no it wasn't as weird yeah so you tweeted that out and then i like responded and that's how we started talking off via twitter right one of the only good stories to come out of twitter one of nine good stories to have happened out of Twitter.

[208] But anyways, and then somehow this ended up with Gordon taking up residents in our home.

[209] Yeah, this is an odd story.

[210] You know, I've never told that on the air.

[211] You haven't?

[212] I never have.

[213] You felt like it would be violating our privacy or something?

[214] Well, yeah, because, you know, I'm an a lot of listeners may know this, and maybe some of them don't, but I'm an extremely private person, oddly enough.

[215] You wouldn't think I would be, but I am.

[216] I don't think you are, but yeah.

[217] I'm now learning that on this fucking stage in front of 2 ,000 people.

[218] I'm extremely private you are.

[219] They can't hear me, Cammy.

[220] They can't.

[221] Because I didn't know if you guys wanted me to mention that on the air.

[222] Sure, sure, sure.

[223] So I never mentioned it on the air because it would seem weird and people would think I was lying the fact that...

[224] Well, if I were you, I would be like, I wouldn't tell the story because I'd be like, are people going to think I'm name -dropping?

[225] It's just a good story, whether we're us or not.

[226] Right, yeah.

[227] Like, you name -drop.

[228] You love name -dropping.

[229] I love it.

[230] Well, I will tell you this, though.

[231] Tom Hanks told me don't name drop it's not and I listen to him that's not my joke that's Sean Hayes' joke I just want to give him credit for that I name dropped on a name drop perfect I was the butt of my own joke or did I better it I don't know but you were in town with your clan your kin my kin I had my kinfolk coming into L .A. and we were going to vacation and oddly enough you had seen I was out there covering the Dallas Cowboys because they have training camp in Oxnard, California.

[232] America's football team.

[233] Cheering for America or the Cowboys there, which one?

[234] So, you had seen that I'd tweeted that I'd landed in L .A. or something, and you responded to me, I guess you had texted me and said, hey, you're in L .A., oh, you have to come to our house.

[235] I think it was the next afternoon, the next day.

[236] You have to come to our house tomorrow.

[237] We're having a birthday party, backyard birthday party for Kristen.

[238] Yeah.

[239] She wants an orgasm for her birthday.

[240] Right.

[241] It had been years.

[242] It had been years.

[243] Yeah.

[244] So, anyway.

[245] So you say you have to come and surprise her.

[246] Yes.

[247] You didn't tell her that I was coming, and I was going to be your special guest at your birthday party.

[248] That's right.

[249] Sloth 2 .0.

[250] Yes.

[251] Yes.

[252] The fact that an A .M. Dallas radio personality was the surprise guest at your wife's birthday party.

[253] We won't even get into how you don't understand gift giving.

[254] So, honey, AM 1350.

[255] All right.

[256] So I borrowed one of our cars and I actually drove down there and I get to y 'all's house and I may be.

[257] and run into you first, Monica, out front.

[258] I had no idea who you were.

[259] Yeah, I just walk up.

[260] I did not.

[261] We don't get the station in L .A. Did Dax invite one of the BGs?

[262] Who is this guy?

[263] I was like, can I help you?

[264] I said, yeah, you know, Dax, I'm a friend of Dax, air quotes.

[265] And he invited me to, you know, to come here, you know, and you said, okay, well, they're in back.

[266] And so I went back, and Kristen was there, and she sees me, and she freaked out and came up and jumped on me and gave me this big hug.

[267] And I had the internal reaction that I have oftentimes with you guys, which is, did they not know who I am?

[268] Are they mistaken me for somebody else?

[269] We really just love you.

[270] I don't know what it is.

[271] We love Gordon Keith.

[272] Just insane.

[273] I can't, yeah.

[274] We really do.

[275] We just love you.

[276] We'll like, we'll just lay in bed and watch videos of you and stuff and then we'll talk about you for a while.

[277] The amount of time and air you're so.

[278] The amount of time and air you're sucking up in our house would probably shock you.

[279] It's like Peeky Blinders and Gordon Keith.

[280] We just haven't dressed up yet as you for a birthday party.

[281] But it's coming.

[282] I've been growing my hair out in preparation.

[283] So we hung out that whole day for her birthday party.

[284] Was she wearing that super gross bathing suit.

[285] That's what I was going to ask.

[286] She was wearing the bathing suit that had the, you guys, the naked woman on the front of it.

[287] No. Man, that's right.

[288] Naked man with grooming his shirt.

[289] and...

[290] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[291] She jumped on you in that bathing suit?

[292] In that bathing suit, yeah.

[293] And I didn't know who it was at first because of the bathing suit.

[294] I thought it was like Chaka from Land to the Lost was jumping on me. Or like, oh, his grandpa lives.

[295] They're taking care of him.

[296] He's got some senility issues.

[297] Didn't look good.

[298] And they've let them loose in the pool.

[299] Because it's nude.

[300] And for any guy in here who's thought, like, I wouldn't kick her out of bed, you would kick her the hell out of bed.

[301] If you saw, it is disgusting.

[302] it's so gross.

[303] It's too real.

[304] It's too real.

[305] It really looks real.

[306] So we hung out, we watched Game of Thrones together that night along with several of your friends and we were all hanging out there.

[307] And then as we were saying goodbye that evening, I mentioned that I had Ken Folk coming in town and we were going to experience L .A. together and you asked, well, where are you staying?

[308] And I said, and you said, well, cancel that.

[309] Stay at our place.

[310] And once again, I thought, are they mistaken me for somebody who's worth their time.

[311] But I could tell immediately, and this is the interesting thing about you and Kristen, is that I could tell immediately that you guys were genuine, that you were serious about this offer, that it wasn't just you being nice, that y 'all are really kind of these open arms, very open people with your friends.

[312] She's taught me that, I'll just add.

[313] Right, yeah.

[314] So I could see that you were being serious about it.

[315] We're like, oh, fuck, I hope he doesn't try to be polite in decline, because it would make us so happy to know you guys were in a house while in L .A. And not, like, spread out at a hotel or all that, you know, whatever.

[316] Right.

[317] Yeah.

[318] And so we called up the opium den and canceled our reservation.

[319] Yeah, yeah.

[320] But I did debate, you know, do I take them up on this?

[321] This just seems too weird.

[322] That would have been hard for me to accept.

[323] That's the thing, is I got from you guys that you truly wanted me to stay.

[324] stay at your place, and that if I said no, that if I said no, that it would upset you.

[325] We would have been disappointed, and we would have stopped watching your videos.

[326] So I felt pressured.

[327] So I say yes, and me and the kinfolk, we stay at your place, and it was a very strange experience sleeping in the marital bed of Dach Shepherd and Kristen Bell.

[328] This is where you guys do all that seedy stuff to you.

[329] This is where she retains you're me. This is just, it's all that.

[330] Yeah.

[331] But Kristen had pulled a prank and you may have even hung.

[332] I don't know if you hung the poster or who hung the poster of Antonia Banderas above the bed.

[333] What was that all about?

[334] Well, that's a whole thing.

[335] That's about to say.

[336] The two second story on that is that when I was getting to know Kristen, I don't know how this came up, but I said, did you have any posters in your room as a teenage girl?

[337] And she said, yeah.

[338] Antonio Banderas in like a thong.

[339] And knowing what I knew about Kristen, I was like, that's very advanced posters.

[340] Like, I could see like a 40 -year -old divorcee getting that thong poster of Tony B, but not a 13 -year -old who liked the Red Wings.

[341] It just never felt right.

[342] And then as we got to know each other longer, I think maybe when we were together for like five years, I said to her, her, hon, if I ask you this question, you promised you'll tell me the truth.

[343] And she said, yeah.

[344] And I said, that Antonio Banderas poster.

[345] Did you want it or did like other friends have it?

[346] Have other posters up.

[347] And she goes, yeah, I didn't even know what that poster was.

[348] At any rate, I found it to be so adorable that she just, her friends had them.

[349] She had no real desire to have them.

[350] And she just grabbed the first two at the store, which They were, I guess, impulse by at the end of the rack.

[351] So you were insecure about her having an Antonio Banderas poster?

[352] Not at all.

[353] It didn't, it wasn't in keeping with what I knew she was as a teenager.

[354] She was like a late bloomer.

[355] She went to Catholic school, and this was like a horny female truck driver's poster.

[356] It just, you know.

[357] It didn't make sense.

[358] Like if the mom and mask share had a poster in her room, it would have been this Antonio Banderas poster.

[359] So, Monica found this poster.

[360] Did you find it or did I?

[361] I found it.

[362] You found it.

[363] Thank you.

[364] I found your Matt Damon post.

[365] At the same time, you were...

[366] The Gift of the Magi.

[367] Yeah.

[368] You were pulling a very similar prank on me that I was pulling on Kristen, yeah.

[369] But somehow Gordo became the recipient of this prank, because above the bed was this overly sexualized photo...

[370] Right.

[371] of Antonio Banderas.

[372] I know it.

[373] I'm having to look at his beautiful caramel dong.

[374] Yeah, yeah.

[375] Tucked in that thong.

[376] So tantalizing.

[377] Yeah, it was a European banana hammock.

[378] I know it.

[379] I think it was even maybe Gucci band.

[380] It's way too advanced.

[381] Even for me at 43.

[382] And then the weird thing, I don't want to get bogged down in the Tony B poster, but...

[383] Stop calling him Tony B. Why do you call him Tony B?

[384] We're in America now.

[385] People call him Antonio Banderas.

[386] Tony B. The magic of the poster, and I think why it's done so well commercially, the photo, the poster, is no matter where you are in the bedroom, he's staring right through your skull.

[387] Did you notice that with your wife?

[388] Yes.

[389] Because Kristen and I were lying there, I was like, he's looking directly at me. She goes, no, hon, he's looking directly at me. And then we swap sides on the bed.

[390] I was like, my God, this is like a magic poster.

[391] Oh, I never made it.

[392] up to the two eyes.

[393] I was down at the one eye.

[394] Oh, you never got off there.

[395] Yeah.

[396] Okay.

[397] Sure.

[398] But can I cut to the very funny thing you did, which made the whole gesture worthwhile?

[399] Okay.

[400] You over -delivered.

[401] So you stayed there for, I don't know what, four or five days or something.

[402] We were out of town, funny enough.

[403] Like, you had full reign of the cars.

[404] I stayed there long enough to, yeah, I drove your car around and it was weird.

[405] War my clothes, I'm imagining.

[406] Right.

[407] Yeah.

[408] War your clothes and pretended I couldn't get a woman to orgasm.

[409] I did a lot of.

[410] Yeah.

[411] Yeah, yeah.

[412] I just walked in my shoes.

[413] The Dax experience.

[414] Right.

[415] But yeah, I was there long enough to realize the several things wrong with your house that you, that there were a few things in disrepair.

[416] Well, and this is a bone I have to pick with you.

[417] We've never discussed this.

[418] A couple of the things you fixed, I wanted broken.

[419] And I'll give you an exact example.

[420] Can you guess which one I wanted to remain broken?

[421] I'm going to guess the shower.

[422] Yeah, that's exactly right.

[423] So, we have a normal showerhead that sprays on you.

[424] It's very useful.

[425] And then we have this rain thing that's off to the side.

[426] Now, that rain thing just drips.

[427] That pipe, for whatever reason, the thermostatic valve behind there is something screwy, and it drips.

[428] I hate it.

[429] But it dripped for so many years, and it got clogged with a deposit of either calcium, lime, or rust.

[430] And it was fully clogged.

[431] no longer drove me nuts.

[432] Because if we shower together, someone is the orangutan sitting under the drippy cold, rusty water spout.

[433] By the way, you would think we lived in like an outhouse the way I'm...

[434] So finally that thing sealed up and I was like, oh my God, it's over.

[435] And then sweet Gordo, thinking he's doing me a solid, refurbishes this thing.

[436] The holes weren't that wide open when it was new.

[437] Right.

[438] So now it's just a sieve again.

[439] Yeah.

[440] Now it's been converted back into these get -mo torture device it was before.

[441] If you made any ISIS member shower in there for more than 20 minutes, they'd give up all the cell locations.

[442] They guarantee.

[443] Just get me out of this shower.

[444] What was the other thing you fixed?

[445] Okay.

[446] First of all, it's a very generous thing, and it's also a little arrogant to fix another man's home.

[447] It is.

[448] I noticed you had oak floors.

[449] I mean, I'm just thinking, you know, my thought was.

[450] Kristen deserves to live with a real man who actually keeps the house in some sense of repair.

[451] Sure.

[452] Sure.

[453] But the other thing is I could not believe how long you let your air conditioner filters go.

[454] Okay.

[455] I'm glad this is coming up.

[456] I opened it.

[457] I opened up the grate and looked at the filter, and it was darker than Satan's heart.

[458] It does look like if you rolled up fresh sod, the backside.

[459] Right, yes.

[460] Now, again, I saw that you had done that.

[461] I was grateful you did that.

[462] That I commend you for, thank you, from the bottom of my heart.

[463] But what it did to me is I thought, fucking Gordon thinks, I'm not on top of that thing.

[464] That is, sounds like that it's exactly what he thought.

[465] There's no, what else could he think?

[466] Because it is disgusting.

[467] Yeah.

[468] But I'm here to tell you that that fucking thing turns that shade of black every nine days.

[469] No human can stay on top of that filter.

[470] I don't know if it's because we live so close to that busy road.

[471] I don't have an explanation for you, Gordon.

[472] I think I...

[473] It was not my...

[474] negligence that led to that filter being so dirty.

[475] The explanation is you let it go six months.

[476] That's what happened.

[477] That's simply not the truth.

[478] Okay, does it worry you that you live in a city that the filter gets that way in nine days?

[479] Absolutely.

[480] It worries me like crazy.

[481] It's like these curtains.

[482] It was ridiculous.

[483] Absolutely.

[484] If you put those curtains in place of my filter, it would make them cleaner.

[485] Or those would look like it.

[486] Whatever.

[487] You get the analogy.

[488] Yes, I don't like it.

[489] I don't like it.

[490] But guess they don't make TV shows anywhere else.

[491] What do you want me to do?

[492] I'm not a carpenter.

[493] I can't just go somewhere else.

[494] Imply my trade, Gordon.

[495] Well, I know.

[496] I know.

[497] And I didn't judge you too harshly.

[498] You must have.

[499] Because the only thing grosser is if you had seen that my toothbrush had like black mold growing on it.

[500] You'd be like, this man is a foul man. Right, no. And I didn't.

[501] And I right, your toothbrush tasted minty fresh.

[502] Yeah, great.

[503] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[504] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[505] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[506] You also washed cars.

[507] He touched your cars.

[508] Did wash a car, which that one I felt bad about because when I was over there for Kristen's birthday party and you had the little ones and they were playing in the water.

[509] And there was obviously concerned with water consumption going on.

[510] Drought.

[511] You know, it was a drought.

[512] Dealing with a drought.

[513] And so I knew that you guys...

[514] Another great thing about L .A. You guys were sensitive about water usage.

[515] And then here I am washing a car and then leaving pictorials of me washing a car.

[516] Don't you're burying the lead or you're leading with the lead, something.

[517] The point is, is the best thing that Gordon did was he documented the entire vacation.

[518] I took pictures of...

[519] Photographic evidence.

[520] Fixing your shower.

[521] of pictures of me changing air filter's pictures.

[522] Just emasculating me in every conceivable way.

[523] I did.

[524] And I left them spread out.

[525] Writing a check for my mortgage.

[526] Mending fences with family members that I don't have the courage to do.

[527] That's right.

[528] You know what?

[529] I think you and your mom are going to get along even better now.

[530] Apologizing to my brother.

[531] But we got home, Gordon had departed.

[532] And on the island in the kitchen was just like a hundred Polaroid photos.

[533] What was the one with you and the convertible Mercedes?

[534] That still boggles me. It's still on the fridge.

[535] It's on the fridge currently.

[536] Okay, that picture is one that your wife had sent to me privately.

[537] Oh, okay.

[538] Okay.

[539] That actually was from a photo shoot here in Dallas where they had done an article on me, and it is the douchiest photograph ever.

[540] Who gives a shit, Matt?

[541] I love that.

[542] Thanks for coming, Gordon.

[543] I can only say that because I profess my love for you so much.

[544] I know.

[545] So it was a photo shoot.

[546] So yes, for Christianity today.

[547] Uh -huh.

[548] And you weren't a Nazi -era Mercedes.

[549] Yes.

[550] It was like celebrating.

[551] The invasion of Poland, I think, was the anniversary.

[552] It was a really dushy photograph of me. It was not.

[553] It's actually pretty cool.

[554] Your wife sent it to me trolling me once.

[555] Oh.

[556] So that's the reason I put that picture there up on the fridge because I kind of hid that one in among the...

[557] Yeah, it was like the Where's Waldo of the collage.

[558] Right.

[559] But yeah, you were wearing...

[560] There were some other ones.

[561] You were in bed.

[562] I feel like you were wearing some of my clothes or something in some of the photos.

[563] Yeah, I didn't realize I'd taken pictures of it.

[564] I had no idea that I would talk to you for this long about your visit at my house.

[565] But that is...

[566] I do think that that's interesting because it was a very nice thing that you and your wife did for me and I appreciate it.

[567] It was a very interesting experience.

[568] I think it's interesting to regular people.

[569] Regular famous people.

[570] Yeah, yeah.

[571] I'm a regular person.

[572] Yeah, regular famous person.

[573] Um, regular person that 2 ,000 people know when you walk on, say, you know, that they're kind of regular.

[574] Yeah.

[575] Thank you.

[576] Just a humble man. Because seeing the inside of your world, and this is something that I've had some experience with, but you guys really are very, very normal people, and you live in a very normal house.

[577] It's a little run down.

[578] It's a little run down.

[579] No, it's a great house, and you guys are not ostentatious, and you're not, you're not, I don't know, you're just not very arrogant.

[580] You're very humble, you're very down to earth, and you're very sweet people.

[581] And to open your home, to me, who you guys barely know.

[582] Yeah, just barely.

[583] Just barely.

[584] I thought it was very sweet.

[585] And I think that it's, I never said, never told that story because I thought it may be betraying your privacy.

[586] I don't know if you wanted me to mention that I'd say that your house.

[587] Well, just you could leave out the air filter part when you tell it.

[588] You brought up the air filters.

[589] I know I did, but that, this is my thing.

[590] But when you do your thing, you could leave that out.

[591] But I think that's interesting, a peek behind the curtain as to how you guys really live and how you really are.

[592] You really are the genuine people that you appear to be in the Samsung commercials.

[593] Yeah, yeah.

[594] It's all about telling those refrigerators, everybody.

[595] Those refrigerators will not sell themselves.

[596] So, Gordon.

[597] Yes.

[598] What was fun about inviting you here tonight is that I don't really know anything about you, which, you know, like, for the level of love we have for each other.

[599] We really don't know each other at all.

[600] So then I went down this rabbit hole of researching you today, which was fun.

[601] And my conclusion after reading your Wikipedia page, and please, I beg you to be honest, like Kristen, in that poster, did you write your own Wikipedia page?

[602] Because there's so many funny nicknames for you on your Wikipedia page I have to imagine only you could have written it Is there any way I would have written that crap about me I have the worst Wikipedia page No I would argue you have the best You know what I don't I'll refer to as something different Every paragraph I know it I know it I check it like once every two years And every time I check it I go I've got to get a handle on this thing These listeners Just add crap And yeah I mean it's If you're not writing it, one of your co -workers is.

[603] Because can I just read you guys?

[604] It's not an incredibly long Wikipedia page to begin with, but it packs a punch, pound for pound.

[605] Every time they describe anything you do, there's a new name.

[606] So here are some of Gordon's names on his Wikipedia page.

[607] Gordon, Madam Richardson, Keith.

[608] Gordon the Great Gordo Keith Okay Gordon Cofifi Keith These are real After you watch that video Go to his thing and confirm this Gordon Creamy Shoulders Keith And then we were off on another site Not even on your Wikipedia page Reading about some other thing And you were described as Gordon Ballerina Whisperer Keith Yeah Is it something from your show?

[609] We figured it must have been something from your show.

[610] I would have thought that all these were going to be from my show, but I don't recognize half of these.

[611] You don't connect with any of these.

[612] Ballerina Whisper.

[613] Milk shoulder or whatever that other one?

[614] Creamy shoulder.

[615] Dairy shoulders.

[616] Oh, you know Gordon Bowine shoulders, Keith.

[617] It's old lactose knee.

[618] I know I am.

[619] Oh, creamy Keith.

[620] No, I don't know what that stuff means.

[621] morning day, unless this is creamy, Keith.

[622] And then, well, just walk with me down this path, because my assumption was you've written this thing.

[623] Right, I did not write anything on that.

[624] Okay, but you can see where I would have thought that.

[625] Right.

[626] Like, if you read my Wikipedia page and it said, Dax Big Dick Shepherd, Dax, Last All Night Shepherd.

[627] Yeah, I would have known it was a lot.

[628] Dax, multi -orgasms, you'd be like, No one would describe him like that except for himself.

[629] Right.

[630] Let me ask you something about that.

[631] Okay.

[632] Do what?

[633] I'm just scared.

[634] I'm just scared.

[635] Do you have people?

[636] I mean, because you have representation, you have agents and all this kind of publicists.

[637] They maintain your Wikipedia page for you.

[638] They groom it.

[639] No. No. They don't.

[640] No. Now, I'm not saying that other like Ashton Coutcher's isn't maintained by the person who gave you his numbers.

[641] But yours is not.

[642] So I don't have anyone on the staff.

[643] Could go edit it tonight.

[644] I guarantee it'll be all fucked up by tomorrow morning.

[645] Yeah, that's a certainty.

[646] After you change my filters, fuck up my shower head, get in there and just dump all over my Wikipedia page.

[647] Good.

[648] All right.

[649] Okay.

[650] So because I was assuming you had written your own Wikipedia page, I don't know if some of these things are true on there.

[651] Okay.

[652] And if one of them is true, yeah, I want to hear the story.

[653] So it's said that you have a controversy with Nestor.

[654] Is that true?

[655] Okay.

[656] Uh -oh.

[657] There's this radio personality from Baltimore.

[658] And he goes by the name Nasty Nestor.

[659] Hold on.

[660] Nasty Nester.

[661] Nasty Nester.

[662] Nasty.

[663] Assy Nester.

[664] Nasty.

[665] Nestor.

[666] Okay.

[667] And every year...

[668] Is he like a shock jock?

[669] Why is it nasty?

[670] I guess he is.

[671] I don't know.

[672] We run into him every year at the Super Bowl and our station somehow got this adversarial relationship with them.

[673] And you just glossed over that.

[674] How did it start?

[675] You can't just go like, oh yeah, I was at war with my neighbor for nine years.

[676] On year nine, we spread each other with a garden hose.

[677] No. Don't drop me in mid -controversy.

[678] So I stayed at his house and fixed a shower.

[679] Well, then this guy has a legitimate beef for you.

[680] Okay, so I probably took a wireless microphone out while we were on the air and started messing with him and it got tense.

[681] But most people forget that after a while, and you make friends.

[682] Well, we've been trying to make peace with this guy for like 15 years now And he wants no part of it.

[683] Oh, he does, him?

[684] No, and it got so bad.

[685] I don't even remember when this was.

[686] You may have it there.

[687] What year it was when I went up and tried to bury the hatchet with him, and he punched me. He actually punched you.

[688] Yeah, he punched me. Where on your person?

[689] Oh, no, he grabbed me by the neck, I think it was.

[690] I can't remember.

[691] How could you not remember whether he punched you?

[692] He shot me or he tripped me?

[693] He tripped me or did he shoot me?

[694] It is.

[695] I was in the ER, so probably not a trip.

[696] But I didn't die, so maybe.

[697] Maybe he didn't shoot me?

[698] It is funny how we respond to trauma.

[699] Oh, creamy shoulders, Keith got me. Ball whisper.

[700] I mean ball whisperer.

[701] Right.

[702] So this guy actually, he took it to the next level and he engaged with you physically.

[703] You're holding a microphone.

[704] Correct.

[705] Did you hit him with it or anything?

[706] No. No, I'm a pacifist.

[707] Oh.

[708] Well, can I make a suggestion for a path?

[709] If you're a pacifist, maybe.

[710] don't confront people, you know, in person.

[711] Right.

[712] But I should mention that I'm a pacifist that kicks ass.

[713] Okay.

[714] Like, um, Kung Fu.

[715] David Caronine.

[716] Is he the one that hung himself in Thailand while jerkin?

[717] Spoiler alert.

[718] Oh, sorry.

[719] I forgot some people may not have heard.

[720] Listen, and don't cheapen it.

[721] It's autoerotic asphyxiation.

[722] It is.

[723] It's a very serious sexual move.

[724] It's more loving than I had characterized it.

[725] Some people call it self -care.

[726] Sometimes you can have too much self -care.

[727] People die on the massage table every year.

[728] Yes.

[729] We're not judging them.

[730] He was making love to himself with something around his neck, yeah.

[731] He passed away.

[732] We lost him.

[733] While loving himself.

[734] His fight is over.

[735] Yeah.

[736] But yes, I think Keratin was a very peaceful guy who beat the shit out of a bunch of people.

[737] Right, right.

[738] I can imagine the pitch for that show, though, where, like, the TV creators were like, wouldn't it have been awesome if Gandhi beat the fuck out of people?

[739] Like, he was Gandhi.

[740] Everything he loved about Gandhi, but then he just, you know, kicked it into high gear occasionally.

[741] That had to be the pitch for the show.

[742] Imagine Bruce Lee meets Gandhi.

[743] That's the show.

[744] Okay.

[745] Anyways.

[746] What are we talking about again?

[747] I don't know what...

[748] There was a very popular show called Kung Fu with David Karadine again prior to this thing.

[749] It was before the death.

[750] Oh, got it.

[751] Well, he was still with us.

[752] He was hanging in the closet but hadn't died yet.

[753] Oh, cool.

[754] That sounds fun.

[755] And he was very peaceful.

[756] He was a very nice man. Yeah, he was.

[757] And then at the end of every episode, he would beat up about 35 people.

[758] Okay.

[759] But for 48 minutes, he was just the most peaceful, loving person.

[760] So anyways, this guy, fisticuffs ensues.

[761] Yes.

[762] Are you just shocked?

[763] What was, can you, I don't want to drudge up too traumatic for you, but.

[764] No, you're doing a good job of it.

[765] He struck you, and there was people that watched.

[766] Correct.

[767] And what was your response to it?

[768] Oh, I don't really remember.

[769] I mean, it was a fun radio bid.

[770] It was a happening, you know, that people were talking about.

[771] Was part of you excited?

[772] Like, oh, this.

[773] Yeah, because some, yeah.

[774] something happened.

[775] It's good.

[776] Right, good radio.

[777] Better TV.

[778] It's hard to see someone punch somebody on the radio.

[779] I think we were on a webcam, weren't we?

[780] Does anybody remember?

[781] Yeah, we were.

[782] Oh, so there is some footage of this.

[783] I could see.

[784] Somewhere there is footage of this, right, I think.

[785] Either there's footage of him choking me or of Ahmad Rashad punching me or something.

[786] I can't remember.

[787] Yeah, I've gotten into it with a few people, unfortunately.

[788] But see, I think that, yeah, I used to be quite an instant.

[789] I still am an instigator, but I'm not quite as good at it as I used to be.

[790] Right.

[791] Well, now, and this is, now I'm going to, I'm going to veer into some more serious stuff, because as you said, you and I are kind of similar, and I really do think that.

[792] I think that there's definitely two sides of you that I quickly became to know, and one is you're very funny and you're very quick -witted, and I would be projecting But for me, that 100 % was forged in self -defense.

[793] That was my defense mechanism against being the stupid kid in school or any number of things I was insecure about.

[794] And do you think your wittiness and your sense of humor is just rooted in altruism, or is it rooted in self -defense?

[795] I think it's a combination of certainly self -defense.

[796] You know, when you're in your adolescent time, you're so sensitive and someone can sink you.

[797] your world so quickly.

[798] And I learned to make the first joke or to be on the offense that way.

[799] I think more than that, even, it was a way to try to get girls to like me. Uh -huh.

[800] Yeah.

[801] You know, there was not anything special about me. I had an older brother who was, you know, good -looking and athletic and, you know, had basically claimed all the areas that are attractive to girls.

[802] And so when you're a second child, I was a middle child, your life is a certain kind of counter -programming to those who came before you.

[803] And he had already taken up that.

[804] And I was like the only thing that I had going for me because I wasn't good looking.

[805] I wasn't athletic.

[806] I wasn't these other things, was I could be funny.

[807] Uh -huh.

[808] And so I, that's what I cultivated was to try to be funny in school.

[809] Middle child in common then, too.

[810] We just discovered backstage we're both left -handed, which was exciting for both of us.

[811] That's right.

[812] Lefties.

[813] All right.

[814] We're all going to die a few years earlier.

[815] Statistically, we're going to die earlier.

[816] They say if carotene had been right -handed, he would have been able to get out of that news.

[817] I just, that, that is what I read.

[818] I've heard that.

[819] But what's interesting.

[820] You know, I think he may have been left -handed, actually.

[821] Really?

[822] I'm trying to think.

[823] I remember seeing one of the caridines, about 50 of them, was on the list of left -handed people.

[824] people.

[825] And I'm actually kind of hoping he wasn't left -handed now.

[826] Do you ever wonder how you're going to die?

[827] Because I know how you're going to die.

[828] I just want to see if you can guess it.

[829] I mean, I have a fantasy of how I would like to die, but I know I don't think I have any high probability.

[830] I mean, I'm sure my heart will explode, right?

[831] But you're a guy who does risky stuff.

[832] Like, you like racing cars and motorcycles.

[833] You like motorcycles.

[834] Is that how you would like to die is doing one of those things?

[835] Sure.

[836] No, I mean, I'll shoot you next time you're on your motorcycle.

[837] Thank you.

[838] Make my dreams come true.

[839] How would you like to die?

[840] Well, let me just really quickly tell you that one of the best things I've ever witnessed was there was an HBO documentary about people who had been sentenced to life in prison and they were interviewing them and they said at this guy who had been convicted of manufacturing like six tons of methamphetamine.

[841] So he had a life sentence.

[842] And they said to him, what, what's it like to know you're going to die in here?

[843] And he said, oh, brother, I ain't dying in here.

[844] I know how I'm dying.

[845] I'm going to be fucking someone's old lady.

[846] He's going to come home, chase me out of the house.

[847] I'm going to run through the yard trip on a meth wire, jump over a fence, get hit by a Budweiser truck.

[848] That's how I'm dying.

[849] And I was like what a detailed amazing and so telling about who he is like he wants to be sleeping with someone else's wife and get caught and run and crash into a barrel of meth cooking and then ultimately just get crushed by his favorite brand of beer truck.

[850] I just I've read a lot of poetry in my life and I don't think I've ever nothing's ever been that authentic and pure.

[851] Right.

[852] And part of me is like, I heard that, and I was like, don't even try to come up with a good death because that guy has figured it out.

[853] Well, then again, maybe Caridine had it all planned out.

[854] That could have been exactly what he hoped had happened.

[855] Do you know how you're going to die, or do you have a sense?

[856] Yeah.

[857] Wait around, about 15 minutes.

[858] Mid -show.

[859] Mid -show.

[860] Everybody.

[861] No, I don't.

[862] But I have worried about it more and more because, you know, my parents passed.

[863] away recently, so death is really on the forefront of my mind, as well as life.

[864] How recently?

[865] Two years ago, but they both died within like eight months of each other.

[866] So, and I was taking care of them because I lived closest to them and all that.

[867] And so death is...

[868] Can I just quickly ask how old they were?

[869] 72.

[870] Don't you like how we always do that?

[871] How old were they?

[872] And then you hear it and you go.

[873] Well...

[874] It gives you a little distance, though.

[875] I mean, it makes you feel a little bit of cushion.

[876] Well, I have this weird perverse desire to be identical to you.

[877] I don't know why.

[878] But my dad died, yeah, at 62.

[879] And then my stepdad died a few months ago at 69.

[880] I didn't realize your father was that young when he died at 62.

[881] Yes.

[882] So when you asked me how I'm going to die, I'm like, well, first of all, probably in about 10 years, which is great news.

[883] And then he had every kind of medical condition you could have.

[884] Like, when you meet with a doctor and they're like, do you have a history of this, this, and this?

[885] I don't even check.

[886] I draw a line straight down.

[887] Just like, I can't be bothered with all the boxes.

[888] I just fucking, boom!

[889] That's right.

[890] I'll be lucky if I get out of here alive, this appointment.

[891] Your dad lived hard, though.

[892] I mean, didn't he?

[893] He was, you know, he died 25 years sober, but yeah, he had a decade of cocaine use.

[894] He was a drunk for 20 years.

[895] He was very obese.

[896] He a heavy smoker.

[897] You name it, he did it.

[898] Yeah, so I'm hoping that'll add five years to that number, at least.

[899] Now, when your dad passed away, because from what I remember of your story is that there was only probably about three months between diagnosis and death for your dad.

[900] Yes, for my dad.

[901] Right.

[902] For my stepdad, it was three years, but yes.

[903] Okay, so with your dad, I think you had, because your parents split up when you were younger.

[904] Three years old, yeah.

[905] And you had some issues with your dad a bunch.

[906] Did you use that three months?

[907] I mean, did you get some things covered in that three -month hang time?

[908] Yes, and in fact, I wrote this thing, about it called my father's horniness because, truthfully, I had the most amazing experience in that three months because what was really weird is my brother was very close to my dad, always, was never resentful at him for leaving us or not paying child support or all the myriad of things I couldn't stand about him.

[909] Never bothered my brother.

[910] They were best friends.

[911] My brother wasn't in a position to be able to go be with him through all the treatment.

[912] and I was so weirdly or the universe conspired I spent the last three months with him a bit begrudgingly and we had many things happen in that three months that I could have never predicted would have happened one of them being I was about to have my first kid and I was in Michigan and I wanted to be able to show her every house I had ever lived in and we moved a ton as a kid so and he just was stuck with me because I would he had to be with me. So throughout this day, we went to every house I ever lived in.

[913] I took a photograph of it.

[914] And we go to the apartment that we moved into when we moved out of his house.

[915] He kept the nice house.

[916] And we moved to a welfare apartment.

[917] Resentment number one.

[918] And we get to the apartment and I take a picture of it.

[919] And then we're about to leave.

[920] And he goes, oh, my God.

[921] I remember, like, sitting just on the other side of that traffic light for an hour and a half.

[922] Like, I couldn't drive the truck.

[923] I dropped off the couch, and I was driving away.

[924] And as I went through that light, I had this moment where I was like, you're driving away from your whole life.

[925] It'll never be back.

[926] And I was crying so hard, I couldn't drive the truck, and I pulled over right there, and I was there for an hour and a half.

[927] Now, I could see in his face, he was not telling me that to get any kind of sympathy.

[928] And I literally, for the first time, I was like, I really thought you dropped that fucking couch off and was like, time to party.

[929] Let's get some young girlfriends.

[930] I really thought you didn't give a shit that you just left us.

[931] And he was like, I don't know how you could have thought that.

[932] So we had like that moment.

[933] And then we had just along the way a bunch of those moments that I really couldn't have manipulated to happen.

[934] It just magically happened.

[935] So yes, for me, it was incredibly healing to have gone through that with him.

[936] And I am so great.

[937] that it was that exact version of knowing he's going to die.

[938] Had it been three years, it wouldn't have went that way.

[939] If it would have been a heart attack, we would have had no closure.

[940] So somehow, even though that was a terrible thing, for me selfishly, it was like the greatest thing that could have happened to us.

[941] Did you know that you needed that healing at the time, or did you think that you had settled most of your things with your dad?

[942] I was resigned to the fact that, like, I don't like how he's lived his life.

[943] I almost define myself as doing the opposite of everything he's done.

[944] I also, I'll add this, I had been supporting him for five years, and at the end it got to the point where he couldn't actually write his bills anymore, so I'm like, well, just I'll pay them.

[945] Before I had been giving him the money, and he would write, well, once I got all of his bills, I saw that he had been lying about how much his insurance was, lying about how much his rent is lying.

[946] He had been stealing from me. And I had this moment where, I would have thought that would have made me so mad.

[947] But then I imagined that I was dying.

[948] And the last thing my son discovered was that I had been robbing him.

[949] And the amount of gratitude I had that that wasn't something I had to feel or carry.

[950] And I felt bad for him that that was.

[951] And there was all this hesitation for letting me take over the bills, which I couldn't figure out.

[952] I'm like, how the fuck are you going to pay your bills in the hospital bed?

[953] Like, let me. And that's what it was.

[954] And that's something he knew I found out right at the end.

[955] And I thought, oh, this is life.

[956] You're doing the right thing for you.

[957] I'm not hurt by the fact he stole an extra $900 a month.

[958] That didn't cripple me. It was the, it's you live with your mistakes.

[959] You know, you think you owe people apologies for what you've done to them, but it's really you that goes to bed at night remembering, shit, I did this or I did that.

[960] So for me, I don't know, that was a very breakthrough moment.

[961] But anyways, I didn't think that would ever happen.

[962] I was resigned to the fact that I didn't need to make things all better.

[963] with him.

[964] But I'm so glad to happen because I then had a kid, and I have since gained a perspective that he couldn't have been perfect.

[965] I'm now a parent.

[966] I know I'm already fucking up.

[967] I also, I used to be mad at him because I thought, oh, you missed my whole life.

[968] And then soon as I had this little girl, I thought, oh, he lost.

[969] He was the big loser.

[970] Like, if I had to miss 10 days of her life, that would be my loss.

[971] So, that's a lot.

[972] So that.

[973] That helped, and I'm glad that I didn't discover that after he had already died, and we had done no mending.

[974] So anyways, the whole story is, for me, a very good story.

[975] On to you.

[976] No, I think that the subject of fathers and sons will be endlessly fascinating to me, and I think that it's, I think that masculinity has.

[977] has become something that people don't, it's become a negative word now.

[978] You know, you never hear the term masculinity without hearing toxic in front of it and things like that.

[979] And I think that learning what it means to be a good man, learning what it means to be a man, is very, very important.

[980] And I don't know that we're really even allowed to talk about it because it's almost like, man is just a social construct or whatever.

[981] But I think there's a lot of boys out there who don't have good fathers that are role -modeling how to be a good man. And when you die and that relationship is not good or has never been repaired, I think that's a hole that never goes away.

[982] And I think it's very gracious of the universe that you actually got those three months with him and that you were the person who did take care of him at that time.

[983] And I think he's very commendable that you did it.

[984] Because a lot of people run from someone who they feel has wronged.

[985] than their whole lives, rather than come back together at that final moment, your last chance to come back together.

[986] And you did that.

[987] And again, that's a gift of me having been sober and remembering that, like, it's me who would have to live with having not been of service to someone who needed me. The punishment to him, it would be drinking poison to kill my enemy.

[988] Like, it would be me who, for the rest of my life, was like, you got the last laugh, you didn't show up, you know, but how many of us drink that poison trying to hurt somebody else?

[989] I mean, we do that all the time.

[990] We hold grudges.

[991] People hold grudges.

[992] They never make peace with someone because they're determined to win a situation.

[993] Yeah.

[994] They're determined to never give in and give forgiveness to someone who they feel doesn't deserve it or someone who didn't ask for it the right way and so on.

[995] But anyway, there's a very touching story.

[996] Thank you.

[997] Can I just say really quick.

[998] The reason the story was called my father's horniness and again this is also a dicey story to now tell it's funny because I just read it not too long ago I was like I couldn't release that today it worked in 2012 it like the USA Today read it out loud somehow not USA Today the morning show whatever that thing is good morning America the reason it's called my father's horniness is that Tom Hanks told me he saw it on the good morning America yeah yeah I only make that point to talk about how much it's changed right yeah not to name dropped that it was red on there.

[999] Although I also did that.

[1000] But you sure got it in, didn't you?

[1001] Yeah, I found a way.

[1002] The reason it was called my father's warning is because my father, above all addictions he had, ate like, I'd never seen a human being eat like him.

[1003] The things he would make, like tons of whipped cream and stuff.

[1004] I'm going to heat up a pizza.

[1005] You want to eat?

[1006] And the salsa would be coming out and, like, bacon bits, and then avocado, and then cereal, like, corn flakes on top of pizza with salsa on it.

[1007] I'm like, what are you doing to this pizza?

[1008] I've never seen anyone eat like this.

[1009] And towards the end, that's how I really knew things like, oh, this is over, because I took him to his favorite restaurant and he didn't want to eat, didn't have a bite of anything.

[1010] I'm like, okay, well, I never thought I'd see this.

[1011] And then the last few days in the hospital, he stopped talking completely.

[1012] He was no longer talking, just sitting in a bed, and a nurse bent over to, like, adjust something on him.

[1013] And I just heard, David and she slapped him and I go did he just say something to you and she's like he's just being a pervert and I'm like this guy has lost the will to eat and live and he's still trying to get late nothing would have worked that's the power like I saw that I was like no wonder we're helpless like yeah I know I could have been shoving a hot foot Sunday in his mouth he He would have spit it out, but he used his last words in life to sexually harass a nurse.

[1014] I mean, isn't that telling?

[1015] Right.

[1016] My father's horniness.

[1017] Anyways, okay.

[1018] I felt like it would have been a weird not to explain why the title.

[1019] It was titled that.

[1020] Right.

[1021] Yes.

[1022] Again, did I tell you it was read out loud on Good Morning America?

[1023] Yeah, you mention it.

[1024] By Tom Hanks.

[1025] But wait, do you feel like you got that?

[1026] I do think that I got it.

[1027] You know, my dad and I spent a lot of.

[1028] of time together because my mom had died.

[1029] We had eight months where it was just me and my dad before it was the three of us, you know, going to appointments and chemo and all those things that you have to do.

[1030] So my dad and I had that eight months with each other and we took one, oh gosh.

[1031] Here we go.

[1032] Yeah, thanks.

[1033] It hit me too.

[1034] Yeah, we went to go visit Caradine's final site.

[1035] Callback coupled with the defense mechanism I just accused you of having.

[1036] It couldn't get sweeter.

[1037] No. One of the last things we did was watch Good Morning America together when they were reading your essay.

[1038] Which was ruined by a sexual harassment story involving my father.

[1039] No, we took one last trip to his boyhood homes and where he grew up and all that.

[1040] And that was a great road trip.

[1041] It was, you know, just a couple months before he died.

[1042] And all that time in the car to sit and talk, you know, similar to you and your dad, visiting old houses.

[1043] And it just gave us so many great occasions.

[1044] And he and I had always been able to talk well with each other.

[1045] You didn't have, like, the...

[1046] No, there were still, you know, there were some things that...

[1047] tension points that we had had, you know, he was much too strict when I was young.

[1048] He was a preacher, right?

[1049] He was a preacher, right?

[1050] And you're not a man of the cloth, per se, are you?

[1051] No, I've clearly gone a different way, but, but he was, and I, in his defense, though, I mean, he was never like the footloose dad preacher, you know, he was never like that guy.

[1052] Right.

[1053] He never pressured us, and I, you know, when I stopped probably going to church when I was in eighth or ninth grade, and, And he, and I remember my mom's saying, well, you have to go to church.

[1054] You know, we're the, we're the preacher's family.

[1055] You know, that just looks horrible.

[1056] I remember my dad, you know, saying, you know, Sandra, which was her name, Sondra, this is his journey.

[1057] He figures it out on his own, you know, we don't need to pressure him.

[1058] That is so commendable because his own ego, it would be embarrassing.

[1059] It's like if you're the police chief and your kids are the town arson or something.

[1060] Right.

[1061] Like, your kid should be in church.

[1062] Yeah, you're a fucking arson.

[1063] Yeah, if you can't get your kids in church, how can anyone else get their kids in church?

[1064] Right, exactly.

[1065] That was my mom's point.

[1066] You know, my dad was, he was not a Bible thumper in our household at all.

[1067] You know, he was a very smart man, and he was a, I think he felt a genuine calling to do that.

[1068] Whether that kept going the whole time he was a pastor, I don't know.

[1069] I think that, I personally think that he got disillusioned with it at some point, and that's why he, left it is because he when you get that high up in in churches where they're big churches I mean you're a CEO of a company and it gets very far removed from the way it was when it was just you and your wife preaching in some small town waiting on your first kid to be born right you know it was just a world away from that yeah but but he and I always you know got along we also would butt heads particularly when I was younger because I think I I think I got the worst end of the the belt, you know, because he would punish us with the belt when we were little.

[1070] But I was the most willful in that.

[1071] And so I'm sure I have some scars from that.

[1072] Yeah.

[1073] Well, what's so funny is the reason I brought up your sense of humor is because that's how I came to know you.

[1074] And then I started reading your writing.

[1075] And your writing is very sincere.

[1076] First of all, you're a great writer.

[1077] I was rereading some stuff.

[1078] Yeah.

[1079] Thanks.

[1080] You're an incredible writer and you're very, very sincere in your writing.

[1081] And although you are a private person, you're also quite revealing in what you're writing, I think.

[1082] And I'm wondering if you were drawn to writing for the same reason I was.

[1083] And I think there's a overlap with being drawn to drinking as well.

[1084] Like for me, I was very funnier than you, quick to make fun of myself before you could.

[1085] also just quick to take control of that because I was incredibly sensitive underneath and when I started writing it was a place where I could be so fucking sensitive because worst case scenario I just would not let anyone read this thing or I would let my mom read stuff I wrote but I was really drawn to writing immediately because it was a place I could be fearlessly sensitive and open and then weirdly when I first drank it gave me the confidence to be the sensitive human being I wanted to be with my friends or with people I loved.

[1086] And so both those things I was so strongly drawn to were, I believe, a response of wanting to let out this kind of sensitive side of myself.

[1087] What kind of drinker were you?

[1088] Like, how would you get when you were drinking?

[1089] I think...

[1090] I'm sure people would disagree with me. People I fought at bars and stuff.

[1091] But I think I was...

[1092] a joyous drinker.

[1093] I also didn't throw up, like I could maintain a nice, on the verge of blackout drunk for 14 hours straight.

[1094] When I got into drugs, it turned a corner, but there was a good, healthy eight years of drinking where I was fun to be around.

[1095] So it made you more gregarious and friendly and fun.

[1096] And open.

[1097] Like I would talk about things I now talk about on here at 43.

[1098] I would share about feeling stupid.

[1099] I I would be willing to tell my friend I loved him.

[1100] Like all these things, it just made me optimistic that this would turn out right if I exposed myself to you.

[1101] So why was drinking a problem for you?

[1102] I mean, if those things, it sounds like drinking made you better in that sense.

[1103] Yeah.

[1104] How did it turn for you?

[1105] Well, and is what is commonly said in 12 -step programs is it stops working.

[1106] So this thing it's doing for me, it's treating a condition of mine.

[1107] And then that stops working.

[1108] And then also, when everyone went to bed, I just kept going.

[1109] And then I had all these different rules, like, well, alcoholics are people who drink in the morning, but I don't drink in the morning.

[1110] But I do drink on Sunday morning because I'm so fucking hung over.

[1111] I won't be able to perceive through my day without having some booze Sunday morning.

[1112] And then sometimes I turned.

[1113] And then, you know, all of a sudden, I also romanticized Bukowski so much.

[1114] My heroes were drunks.

[1115] I thought it was a very romantic lifestyle.

[1116] And then when I was fully in it, and the true sense of like, oh, I can't quit for real, for real.

[1117] Like, I'm not, I can't quit this.

[1118] That was a very, oh, my God, feeling.

[1119] I can't.

[1120] And because I felt comfortable being drunk, I didn't, everything I learned to do as an adult, I did drunk.

[1121] I had never been on a vacation where I started going on vacations when I was sober.

[1122] I'm like, what do you do?

[1123] Am I going to walk through the town?

[1124] Or, like, sit by the pool and watch other people drink margaritas.

[1125] The way I went on vacation is you throw your bags in the room, let's grab a cocktail, we'll meet Joe, Joe's got a cabana, now he knows Steve, Steve's got a powerboat, Mike's got Coke two miles away.

[1126] Like, the vacation took care of itself.

[1127] Like, I put my bags down, and I had to pick them up and leave seven days later.

[1128] Yeah.

[1129] I didn't know what to do.

[1130] But that's what it becomes when you look at a lot of people's lives, lives, it's life is what you do.

[1131] while you're drinking.

[1132] I mean, it's just everything you do.

[1133] If you're depressed, you drink, if you're happy, you drink.

[1134] If you're always...

[1135] Yeah, you said in your article I read is like, you get a job, you get promoted, you drink.

[1136] You don't get the promotion.

[1137] Well, we can eat a drink.

[1138] You drink.

[1139] And there's something wrong with when the prescription for life is drink.

[1140] You have a drink.

[1141] And I also bought that message too.

[1142] I had some of the same literary heroes and I just thought that that's what the creative life was, was drinking to excess and you make hero tales when you drink too much.

[1143] And those are funny tales that you tell and it's swashbuckling way of living.

[1144] I was in search of glory.

[1145] Yeah.

[1146] And then I started realizing that I was drinking more and more just to be by myself.

[1147] See, I was not the gregarious drunk.

[1148] I mean, I would have fun and we'd have great, you know, debates around the bar table and everything like that, but at some point I just would go quiet and get kind of silent and depressed and just slowly nursing the beer.

[1149] Uh -huh.

[1150] And then I would find myself doing that because I work so early, I would have wine with my lunch.

[1151] Uh -huh.

[1152] And I could polish off a bottle of wine.

[1153] And I'm like, that's a red flag.

[1154] Yeah, I consider it.

[1155] I consider a red flag.

[1156] Yeah.

[1157] But unlike you, never unleashed my superpowers.

[1158] It never made me more open.

[1159] It never made me funnier.

[1160] It never made me quicker.

[1161] It dulled every one of my superpowers.

[1162] Then what do you think the appeal was?

[1163] Why did it feel right?

[1164] Like, do you remember the first time you got drunk and you just felt like, oh, yeah, this is how I was designed to feel?

[1165] Exactly.

[1166] And, you know, there's that line and that column that you referenced, which is that we're all born two beers shy of happiness.

[1167] Yes.

[1168] And, and And there's a lot of people who may identify with this, you know, there's that perfect part of your drinking night where you have just the right amount of alcohol that you feel good.

[1169] And then at some point, you'll have a couple more drinks and then it turns on you and you start feeling more sloppy and drunk or you start feeling the vampire need to keep feeding it even when you're not, don't really want to drink more, but you're horny, but you're flaccid.

[1170] Right.

[1171] Yeah.

[1172] And in problem drinkers, the problem is that sweet spot starts getting smaller and smaller to titrate the exact amount of alcohol you need to feel good but not feel like too much to where you're saying stupid things to people and you can't believe I told her that I actually do that in a closet with a noose around my neck.

[1173] Right.

[1174] You're admitting to things you don't want to.

[1175] And then when that point, that happiness point just vanishes to nothing, you can't ever get there, right?

[1176] You can't get the amount of the drug in you just right to where you'll feel happy.

[1177] You can't get that two beer happiness.

[1178] And to me, drinking was always trying to get back to that wonderful Garden of Eden feeling.

[1179] You know, everything's good.

[1180] To me, it was optimism.

[1181] Like, I'm just innately pessimistic in like two drinks with the windows down and Bob Seeger on.

[1182] And I'm like, that feels, that's what all of life should be.

[1183] I'm going to win the lottery eventually.

[1184] Right.

[1185] Like, I play it enough times.

[1186] I'm hitting that powerball.

[1187] I don't even worry about shit.

[1188] That's around the corner.

[1189] I would feel that way.

[1190] It was lovely.

[1191] So I'm going to admit to something that I shouldn't here.

[1192] Okay, great.

[1193] Okay.

[1194] When I was staying at your house and snooping around.

[1195] Uh -huh.

[1196] Yeah.

[1197] There were a few things that I found that were interesting that I'm not going to mention in wearing Kristen's underwear drawer.

[1198] Uh -huh.

[1199] Sure.

[1200] But no. On your book.

[1201] Because your books, it's very interesting to me also, because I look at our home libraries, for lack of a better term, and we have so many of the same things that we read in our interests.

[1202] And my jerk wife has thrown out half my books because they wouldn't fit.

[1203] Did you really?

[1204] Yeah, they weren't aesthetically pleasing.

[1205] Yet throw pillows on.

[1206] I'm almost glad you're sleeping with her.

[1207] So one of them is that I picked up your copy of the big book because I wanted to read out of it.

[1208] So I see it there, and the big book for those who are, are not in a...

[1209] Losers.

[1210] Yeah.

[1211] I should have said at the beginning of this, I am very pro -drinking.

[1212] So if you got a nice buzz on tonight, good on you.

[1213] Yeah, thumbs up.

[1214] I would love to have it.

[1215] So I'm very pro -drinking.

[1216] So you picked up the big book.

[1217] Yeah, I picked up the big book.

[1218] I didn't even think about this.

[1219] I should clarify that I'm okay with all of you drinking.

[1220] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1221] It's just for me, it's not so good.

[1222] So I picked up your copy of the big book, which is the Alcoholics Anonymous Book of Wisdom, for lack of a better term.

[1223] and inside it you had a date written out and there was a line through it and there was another date written and there was a line through it another date line through it and this went on probably eight dates or something like that and even there were a couple of them that had comments beside them that said you know why am I such an effing loser or some kind of thing that was you beating yourself up but it was a really moving moment because it was it was early in the morning no one else was up in the house and like ken fulke was staying with me i was by myself and i was opening this book and i was seeing this little intimate piece of your life which touched me so deeply uh you know that that here's a person who tries again and how important that is you know because life defeats all of us no matter how it's a beating how great your career is Or whatever.

[1224] I mean, you could be the star of kung fu.

[1225] You might end up.

[1226] You might end up.

[1227] Right.

[1228] But it was just really, it was really sweet to see that.

[1229] It was really moving to me to see how you kept trying again and you kept trying again.

[1230] And you kept putting those dates in there.

[1231] And you didn't throw out that book and get a new one that didn't have these memories of failures.

[1232] You wanted those failures right there to show you.

[1233] And you scratch them out.

[1234] And then there's the date that's not.

[1235] scratched out.

[1236] Yeah, which a week and a half will be 14 years now.

[1237] I'm so glad you saw that.

[1238] Well, I felt weird about saying it.

[1239] That would be a really fun moment for me too if I was snooping through your books and I sincerely.

[1240] I too would have been encouraged by that.

[1241] What's really funny is before we, I even knew we would talk about books.

[1242] One of the few things I wrote on a piece of paper was, did you ever read John Barley Corn?

[1243] The old book?

[1244] Yeah, Jack London's John I know.

[1245] I never have.

[1246] It's pretty fascinating because Jack London, you know, Call the Wild, all these great books.

[1247] One of the last books he wrote was basically just admitting he had become a for real alcoholic.

[1248] He was a horrible alcoholic.

[1249] Yeah.

[1250] And his description of why it was appealing, I relate with so much because it is hard for men to bond.

[1251] We're not great at it.

[1252] Like you even watch little kids play, right?

[1253] Like boys look away from each other, girls stare at each other.

[1254] there's something about our poisonous testosterone that makes it very hard for us to bond and to be open and vulnerable and all these things and somehow a saloon in booze facilitates this community among men and that is the thing that I really loved about it and it was so appealing and then of course if you have the thing we have it takes you into isolation ironically that's where it ends but anyways that's a good book and you should read it.

[1255] This is one last thing I want to talk to you about before you go because I think you and I share similar fear, and I think we're probably on the wrong side of history, but let's just see if we can't light our careers on fire and talk about it anyways.

[1256] You have this really sweet article about Father's Day.

[1257] It's so beautiful.

[1258] I was reading it to Monica, and I got a little welled up at the end.

[1259] But could you tell us, you witnessed something that Michael Irving, I can't say his name.

[1260] Irvin.

[1261] Irvin.

[1262] Not Irvine.

[1263] Not Irvine and not Irving.

[1264] No. First tell us, what had he been in trouble for?

[1265] I didn't even really know what you were alluding to.

[1266] Okay.

[1267] So Michael Irvin, you know, he was one of the big stars in the Cowboys in the 90s.

[1268] Okay.

[1269] And they won Super Bowls together and everything.

[1270] But Michael was a real partier back in those days.

[1271] And there was a huge controversy in which he got busted buying cocaine and he was on trial for, I mean, he was in a lot of trouble.

[1272] and he was a real bad boy at one time.

[1273] It's kind of hard to remember now because he's so loved in Dallas now because he's so very personable.

[1274] But at the time, you know, there were a lot of people that hated Michael Irvin.

[1275] He was tarnishing the star.

[1276] He wouldn't stay out of trouble and so on and so on.

[1277] We were at a, this is after his career and we were doing a charity football game with him.

[1278] And he was, we were on the same team and we were in the locker room together.

[1279] and Michael, this was before his image was completely rehabilitated, there were still some people who didn't like him.

[1280] Hater's going to hate.

[1281] Hater's going to hate.

[1282] And he had his little boy in there in the locker room with him.

[1283] He was about six years old.

[1284] And just seeing Michael interact with his kid and seeing how much just effusive love that Michael had towards this little boy who would be coming up to him, and Michael grabs him by the chin, you know, and he looks at him right in the face, and he kisses, says, come here, give me a kiss.

[1285] And he kissed him right on the lips.

[1286] And the boy, he's kind of doing, you know, wiping off and everything.

[1287] And Michael goes, I don't care.

[1288] I don't care.

[1289] You, I'm going to always kiss you on the lips because you're my boy, and I cannot, and I love you so much.

[1290] I love you more than anything else in the world.

[1291] He said, when I, you better get used to it, because when I drop you off at college, I'm going to kiss you right on the lips.

[1292] And I just couldn't hate Michael for anything.

[1293] Because you see that he, I mean, I think Michael is a guy who loves his children and loves cocaine.

[1294] Yeah.

[1295] Yeah?

[1296] So, yeah.

[1297] He just has too much love in his heart.

[1298] Yeah, that's right.

[1299] You know, you hate the guy.

[1300] He's just a loving man. Loves cocaine.

[1301] What is, what I like about that story is.

[1302] is I fear that we've entered a phase a little bit where, and I think it's a little bit out of laziness, I actually want to ask you what you think is because of.

[1303] Now people, we've got a lot of different labels, we can give different people.

[1304] And then once they have that label, that's it.

[1305] There's no humanity to them.

[1306] There are no facets to them.

[1307] They are one thing.

[1308] They're a villain.

[1309] They are excommunicated from our society.

[1310] And it's hard for us to accept that you can at one point be a monster and then two hours later be a saint and a beautiful person.

[1311] That's hard for us to juggle.

[1312] I guess why is it so hard for us to recognize that people are this big thing and that there's some really ugly parts and there's some beautiful parts?

[1313] And why is it we want this binary opposition?

[1314] Why are we in such a hurry to label someone good or evil?

[1315] Isn't it a little lazy and isn't it not complicated enough?

[1316] Do you care about that?

[1317] I very much care about it.

[1318] That's one of the things that infuriates me the most about today's world is that our ability to look at the immense amount of gray in people's lives and to see us as complex organisms that do some things well and do some things bad.

[1319] But there's been something that has occurred in culture.

[1320] And it probably has to do with, with, uh, the very fact that, that there's such certitude online and there's such, we don't like the discomfort of nuance.

[1321] It just has just, and now that we live in a world in which we are so wealthy and so technologically advanced that we have all but eliminated discomfort from our lives.

[1322] Yeah.

[1323] Yeah.

[1324] We, uh, I mean, And, you know, two generations ago, you know, your whole life was discomfort.

[1325] Yeah, absolutely.

[1326] And now we're just so soft.

[1327] You have four good days a year.

[1328] We like, but people have to be villains or they're good guys.

[1329] And the amount of the hero making that we do to some people, you know, you can't tell me that Beyonce's never been a bitch.

[1330] She's had to at some point, right?

[1331] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1332] But, like, she's deified.

[1333] Uh -huh.

[1334] And then, you know, like Matt Damon came out and said, you know, that there's a variety of...

[1335] Gradiation.

[1336] There's gradations.

[1337] Or if you want to mispronounce it, you can go with what you said.

[1338] Do me a favor.

[1339] Say the word extracurricular.

[1340] Never will even try it publicly.

[1341] I'd sooner try to spell it out, which I would also fuck up.

[1342] Or Vietnamese.

[1343] Do you give them one of those?

[1344] You know, maybe after the show, we should get some Vietnamese food.

[1345] You all have a good Vietnamese food.

[1346] food here in Dallas?

[1347] What are we talking about?

[1348] I'm wondering, do you think it is, I was really trying to, reading that thing and knowing that if I were in that situation, I would have not been able to, I would have the exact same reaction to you, which is I would never force myself to deny this thing I saw because of something else I know about the person.

[1349] And do you think it's because we have a fear that if we were to have compassion that we couldn't then also execute justice because I think we should execute justice.

[1350] I don't think a lot of these people should be in any kind of position to be above people, but I don't know why we can't also do that with compassion.

[1351] I almost feel like people feel like both can't be done at the same time.

[1352] Right.

[1353] Whereas the key to a healthy life and a healthy culture is to find the proper balance between justice and mercy and we fail miserably over and over again with our overwrought sense of our thirst for justice to where we have to have someone be completely bad we won't let criminals be rehabilitated you know they get out of prison they pay their debt to society but I ain't going to hire him you know the guy did this and everything and that guy hasn't what kind of society can he reintegrate into well he can't So now we just create a person who's going to be living on the margins and doing bad things.

[1354] Yeah, there's zero interest in fixing the broken problem.

[1355] And the sole interest in punishment.

[1356] And now we culturally have an issue where we were talking about the Matt Damon thing.

[1357] You know, Matt Damon said that there are gradations to human behavior.

[1358] Gradations, yeah.

[1359] But Matt Damon's Vietnamese, so.

[1360] No. And, you know, he took in the shorts for that.

[1361] and he did his groveling apology and all that.

[1362] And it's like, wasn't he just fading kind of a fact?

[1363] Yes, yes.

[1364] But I think what we are is we're so scared of slippery slopes that we will find them anywhere, you know, just by even acknowledging that one thing is different than another thing.

[1365] Then that we lose the, well, we lose the cudgel that we have to beat everybody over the head with, you know, that you're just wrong behavior is wrong behavior and there's no stop equivocating and all that.

[1366] Yes.

[1367] Yes, it's not belittling one area of trauma by acknowledging being killed is worse than being punched.

[1368] Right.

[1369] After you ask a Baltimore journalist a question, you know.

[1370] There's a difference.

[1371] Right.

[1372] But if I, but I can win with a little verbal, rhetorical slam dunk, which all violence is horrible.

[1373] Right.

[1374] And you're like, yeah, but in the killing, worse than the stabbing and everything?

[1375] Oh, okay.

[1376] You just keep justifying people that stab others.

[1377] I mean, it's do -ahead.

[1378] Right.

[1379] It's like, can we have a conversation about, but if somebody's trying to constantly win an argument as opposed to having a discussion, yeah.

[1380] You just ain't got to walk away from that person at some point.

[1381] Yeah.

[1382] Problem is, I'm not good about walking away from them, and then I get choked by a Baltimore guy.

[1383] It's quite a thing to have on your Wikipedia page.

[1384] Well, it shouldn't be on there.

[1385] What's really funny is, literally this will be the last one.

[1386] I'm going to try to do this within 97.

[1387] seconds.

[1388] This dovetails weirdly into another thing I read on your Wikipedia page that I just, I don't know if it's hogwash or not.

[1389] Are you truly obsessed with Lee Harvey Oswald?

[1390] A lot of fans of Lee Harvey Oswald out there.

[1391] No, you're not.

[1392] Let me explain.

[1393] Okay.

[1394] So this gets thrown on me all the time.

[1395] Oh, good.

[1396] You talk about nuance.

[1397] You're going to have to appreciate a lot of nuance here because I'm the guy who's out there claiming, rightfully so, that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone.

[1398] So I'm wanting to pin the murder of Kennedy on him.

[1399] And I get accused of being a fan of his for that.

[1400] Make sense of it.

[1401] So, yeah, so I am a Kennedy assassination buff.

[1402] Yeah.

[1403] Oh, okay.

[1404] But we do have lots of fun with this on the air, and so I appreciate the humor in it.

[1405] I own Lee Harvey Oswald's bathtub.

[1406] I'd love to bathe in it tonight after the end of this show.

[1407] It's really comfortable.

[1408] Can I swing by?

[1409] Really comfortable.

[1410] Yeah, sure.

[1411] To be honest, I'm shocked he owned a bathtub.

[1412] I pictured him like renting boarding rooms.

[1413] He did.

[1414] He did.

[1415] And this was in an apartment that he had rented.

[1416] Okay, so he'd take an A bath in it.

[1417] Right.

[1418] Probably more, yes.

[1419] And so had Marina, who was hot in her day.

[1420] Okay.

[1421] Okay.

[1422] So, God, these stories are so long.

[1423] And when they come out of my mouth, I realize, yeah, everybody's right.

[1424] I'm obsessed with Learrealism.

[1425] But can I just say, what's funny is there's an overlap about what we just talked about in Lee Harrow.

[1426] So you do believe he did shoot Kennedy, right?

[1427] Absolutely.

[1428] I do, too.

[1429] And I don't know if you guys have ever listened to Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast.

[1430] Have you ever heard it?

[1431] It's fantastic.

[1432] I mean, it's such a commitment.

[1433] You have to be unemployed to listen.

[1434] and do it.

[1435] It's like, 11 hours.

[1436] And you're like, what's funny is you go, 11 hours on Prussia.

[1437] And then you go, all right, I'll do it.

[1438] And then all of a sudden you're like, wait, part one.

[1439] Part two, 13 hours.

[1440] Like, it's so intimidating.

[1441] Anyways.

[1442] You say that with the knowledge that our podcast is about three hours.

[1443] Yes, I do, I do.

[1444] Which is just a brisk little podcast compared to hardcore history.

[1445] But he was talking about the fact that we think that we live in the age of terrorism, and he says, well, really the age of terrorism started with the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand in World War I, which started World War I. And then he kind of, you know, builds that every single war we've had since has really started with the assassination of him, right?

[1446] I'm not going to bore you with the details of that.

[1447] But the most interesting thing he said in that episode is that the reason conspiracy theories appeal to people is that it is far scarier for us to think that some dipshit Lee Harvey Oswald if he decided that if some loser who bathed in one tub once and some other guy bought it if a bozo like that could up and decide to change the course of human history that that is so scary to us that it is more comforting to think well, there must have been this complex apparatus that made all that happen.

[1448] For some reason, I feel safer thinking there was some crazy CIA conspiracy or, you know, that's more comforting than just any one of us could all of a sudden turn to a bozo in fuck up history.

[1449] We just can't accept that.

[1450] But yet we know that to be the case.

[1451] We know that one person with a bad intention can do tremendous damage.

[1452] Yeah.

[1453] And for some reason, when it comes to that assassination, we just short circuit and think, well, no way, it had to be huge.

[1454] It had to be all this.

[1455] No, it had to, it could be one guy with a rifle.

[1456] Rifles can shoot people from that distance very easily.

[1457] And he did that.

[1458] And he had a blueprint of that throughout his life.

[1459] He was that guy.

[1460] And his behavior showed you that before.

[1461] And but yeah, it is that we try to overcomplicate things.

[1462] It's very strange.

[1463] Because it's the antithesis of what we were talking about before.

[1464] And these two things, parallel.

[1465] each other, they go side by side, which is that...

[1466] It's what's converting us to think someone's straight evil.

[1467] Right.

[1468] That's easier for us.

[1469] We make simple things way too complex, and we make complex things way too simplified.

[1470] Yeah.

[1471] Whereas, and this is the wisdom of the Buddha, once again, the wisdom always lies, and enlightenment always lies in the middle way.

[1472] You know, that guy in particular, Buddha, it seems weird I'm calling him that guy.

[1473] Sure.

[1474] that dude and he study of Buddhism I mean I just keep coming back to how does this dude get so many things right about the human experience way back then that still if you look at it it still holds true today about being in the moment about the middle way all those things that we just try to resist for so long I mean think about this wisdom and salvation is at our finger tips.

[1475] We could avail ourselves of this, but instead we'd rather buy a pill, take a course, go to a class to get some sense of peace in our life, thinking that these things are going to create peace when we could actually tap into the piece that's inside all of us.

[1476] But that just doesn't feel right because I think most of us think, well, who am I?

[1477] Salvation can't lie within me. I know I'm a broken individual and I hate myself at the same time.

[1478] I deify myself.

[1479] Yep.

[1480] I'm not worthy of that.

[1481] And we look for answers out.

[1482] side of ourselves.

[1483] So what were we talking about?

[1484] You vandalizing my rain faucet in my bathroom.

[1485] Right, right.

[1486] Did you screw up that tub the same way you messed up my shower?

[1487] No, no, no, no. Oh, okay.

[1488] No, I treat Lee Harvey's tub a lot better than I treat your aquatic appliances.

[1489] You wear your clothes when you bathe in it.

[1490] Correct.

[1491] Correct.

[1492] Well, Gordon...

[1493] Can I say one other thing?

[1494] Please do, cream shoulders.

[1495] I love the podcast, by the way.

[1496] I've listened to it, and what you're doing on that podcast is exactly what I want more of, which is you're a great communicator.

[1497] You speak very well, and you are very non -judgmental, and you listen to people's answers and that, and I think it's great.

[1498] I want to thank you for inviting me on this.

[1499] This was fun, because it was kind of a lark idea that we would do something like this.

[1500] I've always wanted to do something like this, never gotten off my ass and made it happen.

[1501] It took you stepping in to make it.

[1502] it happen and do this, this show, which every, I can't believe how much energy you guys had for the show after we announced it.

[1503] It was unbelievable.

[1504] It's mind -blowing.

[1505] Ain't no cherries like the arm cherries.

[1506] Mm -hmm.

[1507] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1508] What's up, guys?

[1509] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[1510] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[1511] And I don't mean just friends.

[1512] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[1513] The list goes on.

[1514] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[1515] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[1516] Monica's eyes, they're watching you, making sure your facts are true.

[1517] Monica's eyes watching you.

[1518] Monica's eyes.

[1519] Watching you, watching you, watching you.

[1520] We don't really get facts in there.

[1521] Oh, making sure your facts are true.

[1522] Okay, great.

[1523] That was great.

[1524] That holds.

[1525] Yeah, I knew that.

[1526] I love when you know it.

[1527] Me too.

[1528] It's so rare.

[1529] Most often you don't know it.

[1530] I feel like a real failure and a bozo.

[1531] It's not a lack on your part.

[1532] It's my own issue.

[1533] It's my own issue.

[1534] I can't do that even on the radio.

[1535] I think of my saying I'm a little better they'd ring a bell for you.

[1536] No. Even if I listen to something on the radio, it takes two and a half minutes before I can recognize the song.

[1537] Well, just saying, just saying ring the bell made me think of, you can check my facts.

[1538] Check my facts.

[1539] My facts.

[1540] Yeah, I know that.

[1541] You know that one.

[1542] You can ring my bell.

[1543] Oh, you know, remember a few fact checks ago, I wanted to point out, there was two things I wanted to talk about.

[1544] And I only remembered the one, which is, don't say hateful things on our Instagram page.

[1545] Here is the other one that's been driving me nuts.

[1546] I've been meaning to say this for a while.

[1547] I talk so often on here about people achieving their dreams and not living up to their expectations.

[1548] And I just really wanted to be clear that I want that no way to be misconstrued that I don't think people should chase their dreams.

[1549] I'm very into people chasing their dreams.

[1550] I'm just trying to make the point that chasing the dream is the fun part.

[1551] And it's why you do it in and of itself and that the results, the destination, probably aren't going to be the feeling you're expecting.

[1552] So I just don't want anyone to think that, like, my overall point is like, oh, great.

[1553] So you went and chased your dream and you got it.

[1554] Now you're telling everyone it does what's the point, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[1555] That's not what I'm saying.

[1556] Do you think that's what I come across the saying?

[1557] No, I don't think that comes across at all.

[1558] I also think, you know, it's relative to what your dream is.

[1559] If your dream is to run a charity and you do that, it very well might feel exactly like you hope it will feel.

[1560] Like, we don't know.

[1561] I don't know because I've never started an important charity.

[1562] We're so embarrassing.

[1563] But you are specifically referring to your dream and my dream.

[1564] Well, I think it applies to the most dreams.

[1565] I think there's a lot of people who are like, I want to make partner at this law firm.

[1566] When I make partner at this law firm, everything's going to be awesome and then it's not awesome right it's why it's so important that becoming partner the the route to becoming partner that you find the pleasure enjoying that and the esteem yeah about the hard work and stuff but the result ultimately i think generally is going to be empty i don't think the accolade is what gives you self -esteem i think hard work is yeah selflessness is i think those are yeah rewarding sure yeah but anyways i just didn't want anyone to misconstru.

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] Very pro -chase -your -dream.

[1569] I hope my kids chase their a dream.

[1570] My dad is not pro -chase -your -dream.

[1571] He's not?

[1572] No. He's pretty content.

[1573] I know.

[1574] When I talked to a joke, I thought this guy's pretty content.

[1575] He thinks people should aim for mediocrity.

[1576] Uh -huh.

[1577] Well, they're probably happier if they aim for mediocrine.

[1578] And then they get a little above it.

[1579] I think he puts a very high emphasis on security.

[1580] I'm feeling secure.

[1581] For him, that's what's most important.

[1582] And you don't get that often when you're aiming super high, exactly.

[1583] Can we tell the funny joke brother made in the sand dunes about your dad's name, Ashok?

[1584] Oh, sure.

[1585] I barely remember it.

[1586] He goes, that's his name.

[1587] That's not a choke.

[1588] Oh, yeah.

[1589] That's right.

[1590] That's not a joke.

[1591] Yeah.

[1592] That was pretty good.

[1593] I got nervous when he said it.

[1594] I really got it.

[1595] Now I don't like it as much.

[1596] Oh, really?

[1597] Well, a lot of brothers' jokes are just wordplay.

[1598] Sure, mostly.

[1599] Almost 90 % of his jokes, Ryan Hanson's jokes, are just funny wordplay.

[1600] Yeah.

[1601] And it was a really quick, fun wordplay.

[1602] A joke sounds like a joke.

[1603] A joke?

[1604] Wait, and that's not a joke?

[1605] Yeah.

[1606] Yeah.

[1607] So it was really a good one for him.

[1608] It was.

[1609] But then we get into all the racial underpinnings and it gets a little scary because then it feels like you're just making fun of a name that's different.

[1610] Yeah.

[1611] But that's not what brother was doing.

[1612] No, it's not what he was doing.

[1613] His heart is pure gold.

[1614] It's not what he was doing, but I'm sensitive to that, especially if it's my dad.

[1615] Well, no one here loves your dad more than I, including you.

[1616] No, that's not true.

[1617] That's not true.

[1618] I sure like them.

[1619] We were in lockstep politically.

[1620] No. To the point, you know, it's funny is your father made this point that he loved Bill Maher.

[1621] He's always loved Bill Maher.

[1622] He loves Bill Maher.

[1623] Yeah, and he's out on Bill Maher because Bill Maher said he's praying for a recession so that Trump can't win again.

[1624] Yeah, my dad did not like that.

[1625] And you know what's funny is, I mean, I didn't love it when Bill Maher said that because I'm like, you know, all these people are going to suffer so we get a new, you know, I didn't like it either.

[1626] But I didn't feel as vehement about it until I spoke with your father.

[1627] And then he brought it up again on a recent episode.

[1628] And this time when I had been primed by Ashok.

[1629] I was like, yeah, that's so distasteful.

[1630] He got through to me. Oh, no. I really think it's a terrible thing he's saying.

[1631] And I am.

[1632] Now, to say if we had a recession, we'd have a change in political power as an observation is fine.

[1633] But to say you're wishing for or you pray the economy will tank is very selfish to your own political point of view.

[1634] It's selfish to all the people who are working hard and barely surviving.

[1635] Exactly.

[1636] Yes.

[1637] who are also on his side.

[1638] Like, it affects everybody.

[1639] I don't like what Bill said either, but I see his, like, general point that sometimes, which my dad does, he is like you, he'll just say the opposite point of what I'm saying, just to say the opposite point.

[1640] And then he'll argue that.

[1641] And then sometimes I don't even know what he believes and what he doesn't believe.

[1642] But he's a little bit of a contrarian when it comes to what you're saying, devil's advocate.

[1643] But he has said before and I agree that something sort of exactly similar to this Bill Maher thing, which is like if the people who are voting for that don't feel any of the repercussions of it, then they're not going to, there's not going to be any change.

[1644] So anyway, I just get the point that like you have to feel it.

[1645] You have to feel the reality of the situation, yeah.

[1646] But yeah, my dad did not like that comment.

[1647] Okay, Gordon.

[1648] Gordo, one of my favorites.

[1649] Yeah, Gordon was so great.

[1650] But when you listen back to it, did it live up to our experience on stage?

[1651] Yeah, it was great.

[1652] Oh, good.

[1653] Yeah.

[1654] I just loved the different levels of, he's so funny.

[1655] He's one of my, I mean, he has my number like no one else.

[1656] There's just certain people, right, who have your number.

[1657] Aaron Weekly, of course, has got the number one number.

[1658] But Gordon really has it for me I can't keep a straight face around him Yeah And he hit me with the emotions Yeah I know I'm talking about the full package I agree I yeah he's special Well you were talking about Press junkets Because that's how you first met Gordon And you said That a press junkin Is six minute interviews For 10 hours So you do a couple hundred interviews a day And you probably crunched the numbers And that's not possible It would be 100 interviews Right because you could do 10 an hour It was actually very quick, easy math for me to do.

[1659] And it would be 100 interviews.

[1660] And normally there's a lunch break.

[1661] Yes, for sure.

[1662] I've been a part of some of these things.

[1663] And it's not 10 hours straight.

[1664] And it's probably not even that many.

[1665] Let's just say when you do it, even if you've done 60, you start feeling insane.

[1666] Yeah, I'm sure.

[1667] And you're saying the same thing over and over and over again.

[1668] Yeah, that sounds terrible.

[1669] And then like people, you know, I get, it makes sense why people get in trouble during these things.

[1670] And when they yell at people or they like lose their mind.

[1671] Because you get worn down.

[1672] And then when you're tired, no one, when they're tired starts making great decisions.

[1673] Exactly.

[1674] And then a lot of these people too, they have, and when I say six minutes, there's often, these are scheduled for three minutes.

[1675] Like people have three minutes at the rotating.

[1676] And this person will sit down, they'll ask you some hot button topic question that you couldn't possibly thoughtfully address in three minutes.

[1677] So right out of the gates, you know, like this is such a low blow.

[1678] Like you're going to ask me about the state of the welfare system.

[1679] And I have two and a half minutes left, and you want me to, you know.

[1680] I know.

[1681] Yeah, or whatever popular news item of someone going down with me, too, you want me to give some thoughtful answer about that in two minutes?

[1682] Yeah.

[1683] It's hard.

[1684] That's like Downey, Downey, who's the greatest, Robert Downey.

[1685] He famously had kind of a, he put someone in his place, which is the guy wanted to, like, get into his incarceration for drug abuse.

[1686] And it was in a two -minute interview, and he's just like, come, dude, really?

[1687] You know, and he kind of said to him, like, this is preposterous.

[1688] I'm not on a segment of 60 minutes where we could spend two days talking about this.

[1689] Yeah.

[1690] And I could give you a real thing.

[1691] You just want a fucking sound bite so you have clickbait for your thing.

[1692] Right.

[1693] And guess what?

[1694] He got it.

[1695] He got it.

[1696] That's the thing.

[1697] Yeah, that's the thing.

[1698] Yep.

[1699] They win when you do that.

[1700] They do.

[1701] But it's hard.

[1702] Okay.

[1703] Gordon has never had sex with Kristen.

[1704] I just, well, that I know of.

[1705] That we know.

[1706] We don't know.

[1707] But I know a lot about her.

[1708] We don't know.

[1709] You're right.

[1710] I'd be so happy for both.

[1711] of them.

[1712] If I was a woman I was choosing, like I had a top five list of guys I was going to quickly have sex with as a woman.

[1713] He'd be on my top five.

[1714] Quickly.

[1715] Why quickly?

[1716] Because I'm a horn dog.

[1717] I'd get right at it.

[1718] Oh, no. I'm assuming I'm only going to be a woman for like a finite period.

[1719] Oh, I see.

[1720] You're going to make me a woman for the weekend.

[1721] I got to get going.

[1722] I wouldn't be surprised at all if Gordon wasn't on Kristen's top five.

[1723] He'd be a nice addition to her, her group.

[1724] Yeah.

[1725] They're all past.

[1726] Though I don't think that they have, I feel, I feel really confident.

[1727] I think logistically they couldn't have.

[1728] Even if they have the intention to, I don't think logistically.

[1729] Also, we're speaking for, now Gordon is happily married.

[1730] He doesn't have the loosey -goosey Hollywood morals that we have.

[1731] So, you know, certainly Gordon won't it.

[1732] Now, Kristen, I wouldn't trust her farther than I can't see her.

[1733] So who knows with her?

[1734] I totally disagree.

[1735] I don't know.

[1736] I don't think they have, but I don't know.

[1737] Well, let's just say this.

[1738] If they have, I didn't even know and our relationship's been going just fine.

[1739] Yeah.

[1740] So if you look at it just from a pragmatic point of view, if it happened, I guess it didn't matter because I certainly didn't know and she's still a lovely bride to me. Okay, you said Ashton and Rob Cordray were in Citizen Kane, and they weren't.

[1741] No, I must have been being facetious.

[1742] I guess you were joking, but sometimes it's hard to tell.

[1743] Oh.

[1744] That's like, speaking of your boyfriend.

[1745] bride who's always telling jokes that I never know if she's telling jokes because she's too good of an actress that's right yeah this is something we've been wrestling with at the house she gets upset yeah yeah I don't want to have a very dry delivery it's very sincere it's not it's not dry it's so it's so wet no it's um it's so believable what if one of the things on 23 and me is whether or not you have a dry or wet sense of humor yeah and like england had the highest rate of dry sense of human yeah that's really funny guys she's a good actress the best one of the very best I think okay you said in the Antonio Banderas poster that he's wearing a Gucci band on his underpants he's not he's not he's not you can't even see his underpants no he's wearing like black jeans and a blazer opened up in a like a flashy belt but we then we did just find the picture I was thinking of there is a picture of him in swimwear.

[1746] He seems to be in like Santorini Greece somewhere in Greece.

[1747] Spread eagle.

[1748] He is spread eagle and you see a banana in those white.

[1749] You know, you'd call him Speedos for lack of the appropriate word, whatever that kind of.

[1750] Banana hammock.

[1751] Yes, thank you.

[1752] He's wearing a white banana hammock.

[1753] And in fact, it doesn't even say Gucci on it.

[1754] It says Hollywood on the waistband, which is ironic because, again, I do believe he's in Santorani.

[1755] Very whitewashed background.

[1756] Looks like he's perched up over the Mediterranean.

[1757] He's probably on a soundstage at Paramount or something.

[1758] What we do know is he is spread fucking eagle.

[1759] That's true.

[1760] And that banana is on full display.

[1761] Yeah.

[1762] I just wonder if like when you're taking, now again, I've never been in a photo shoot where I was asked to wear a banana hammock yet.

[1763] Uh, yet.

[1764] And also I'm older now.

[1765] But I wonder if when I was younger, if I was asked to do that, I would certainly want to get myself semi -erect.

[1766] I would feel obligated to get semi -eract.

[1767] You would.

[1768] But why?

[1769] Because you want that, you want to fill out that banana hammock.

[1770] It's not a banana hamlet.

[1771] if inside is a toothpick.

[1772] Well, you need a banana for a banana hammock to work.

[1773] It's okay if it's a toothpick.

[1774] Sure, of course it is.

[1775] It's okay.

[1776] Not for everyone it is.

[1777] For me, it's not.

[1778] I would want a nice ripe banana.

[1779] All right.

[1780] A plantain.

[1781] A plantain or a sweet potato?

[1782] Ooh, even better as sweet potato.

[1783] Oh, yikes.

[1784] Okay.

[1785] We rarely get a chuckle out of Wabiwob, but he seems to be snickering up a storm over there.

[1786] Um, last thing.

[1787] We are really dilly -delling today.

[1788] Well, I mean, to be fair, there were no facts during Gordon's.

[1789] Oh, there weren't?

[1790] And I think there might have been, and maybe I missed it, and I haven't, I feel shame about that.

[1791] Okay.

[1792] Well, you're still a fantastic person, whether you never rattle off another fact again.

[1793] Well, no, that's not true at all.

[1794] That's my job.

[1795] That's my job.

[1796] It's my job, so I have to.

[1797] Anyway, I just, last thing, Gordon tells the story about looking.

[1798] looking through your big book, which is such a touching sweet story.

[1799] Yeah.

[1800] You remember it?

[1801] I do.

[1802] I'm like, yeah, I'm emotional.

[1803] Yeah, it's really sweet.

[1804] Like what's sweet about it, what makes me emotional is I would never in a million years to think that someone would end up opening that book up.

[1805] It's not something I would think is sweet or nice about me. There's nothing, like to have something so.

[1806] weirdly intimate discovered about you that you would never even consider yeah and then to see the impact it had on him it's just all very emotional yeah yeah and i just wanted to say i'm proud of you oh thank you really really proud of you thank you yeah there's a lot of dates in that book do you open it up no but i after i heard that i really wanted to i keep meaning to and i rode around in there you did a good job good job all right well i love you that That's it?

[1807] That's it.

[1808] Okay.

[1809] Still love you.

[1810] I love you still.

[1811] You know, whether you unveil 100 facts or one fact, my love for you is the exact same, just you know.

[1812] Thanks.

[1813] Night night.

[1814] Night.

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[1819] We've all been there.

[1820] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[1821] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[1822] Like the unexplainable death, of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[1823] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

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