268 - All-Stars of 7th Grade

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] It's a true crime podcast.

[3] That's right.

[4] And I'm Georgia Hardstark.

[5] And I'm Karen Kilgara.

[6] How do you do?

[7] Very well and you.

[8] Fine.

[9] Thank you.

[10] Do you ever get mad at people?

[11] Do you ever get mad at people when they say, do you, how are you?

[12] And I said, good, thanks.

[13] And then I say, how are you?

[14] And they say, I'm well, because they're like pointing out that you just said good.

[15] And so you immediately feel bad about yourself.

[16] Is that what?

[17] Is that grammar, Massive aggression?

[18] It is.

[19] Oh, I never knew that.

[20] Well, I swear, it drives me crazy.

[21] I'm well.

[22] I would assume that's someone who is posing as some sort of therapist is what that sounds like to me or some, that sounds like someone who's like, I'm well.

[23] I was just at the farmer's market buying fresh broccoli to steam into my pores.

[24] Do you eat organic yet?

[25] Do you eat organic yet?

[26] Do you eat organic?

[27] do you well no because i'm unwell well well i'm fine without with not having organic so yeah how about i'm just fine barely getting by do you see these circles under my eye do they look like a well person's under eye baggage i'm well thank you i'm well i'm well i'm a stepford wife i'm well i'm well i'm well well that that just makes me think of banana boy scotty landis where he and i were talking about some people that were like very successful and also had kids and both of the husband and wife are famous in some way and they're both rich or something like that and i go wow they really have it all and scottie goes ew who wants it all it's this thing where it's like that's what I always feel like, especially in Los Angeles, is like, I always want to tell those people with the tall New Buck boots and the white sweater and the big weird hat and the bleached blonde hair.

[28] I know them.

[29] I don't, I'm not competing with you.

[30] I'm not interested in your life.

[31] I don't want what you have.

[32] I understand that you believe yourself to be the pinnacle of your yoga class and congrats.

[33] And avocado toast.

[34] Yes.

[35] You're doing all the things.

[36] You're checking all the boxes from the weird subscription box company that you signed up for.

[37] God fucking bless.

[38] Get away from me. Have you seen the movie Ingrid Goes West with, um, it is there is a character in that.

[39] And it's what she is striving for.

[40] What's her name?

[41] She's so great.

[42] Steven.

[43] She pays April.

[44] Aubrey Plaza.

[45] And she's trying to, to reach that character's lifestyle goals, hashtag lifestyle goals.

[46] But she is just like.

[47] us so she can't and just screws it all up in all these like charming not charming ways like dark ways but that like the character they had play and all of it is so exactly but lives in a bungalow in venice beach with her hot bearded husband and their puppy and they have a lot of boho you know Joshua tree style life and everything they eat is perfect and cute and it's and so she steals her dog to become friends with her it's like it's very that So I highly recommend.

[48] That sounds really good and relatable.

[49] I really love that movie.

[50] It's a this town is, and I think maybe it's not even this town.

[51] I think a lot of pop culture has become so drastically homogenized in a way that is like, and I know this is because I'm never on Instagram.

[52] And so when I see little bits of Instagram pop through, it is, it's shocking to me how strange it.

[53] Everyone is starting to look exactly the same.

[54] Yeah.

[55] And a little bit like sex stalls where it's like...

[56] Sex dolls.

[57] So everyone has equal size top and bottom lips and they're both giant and they're the exact same size.

[58] Yeah.

[59] Everyone has not a line or a wrinkle or a mark on their face.

[60] Every single person has like half inch long eyelashes and gigantic eyebrows.

[61] The eyebrows.

[62] Not even like a wrinkle, not even an expression.

[63] and everyone's kind of to the side and has a lot of contour and there's a window on every wall in every room letting in the most dappled lovely sunshine God bless it all it's a yeah it's a fucking rat race to get somewhere that we don't even know what the point of it is yeah because it's not real ultimately I mean I don't look I'm not saying beauty is bad obviously everybody wants to feel good and look good and that's good Good.

[64] And broccoli.

[65] Make yourself happy.

[66] Sure.

[67] Good, good, good.

[68] But it's, don't assume it's interesting just because it's what you think people want.

[69] Here, let me brag real quick about how real I am.

[70] Oh, shit.

[71] Cat food in this room I'm in right now.

[72] That's how real.

[73] And you can't, you can't put that.

[74] There's no Instagram filter for that, baby.

[75] That's all just like for, it's all for me. You know what I mean?

[76] Like, is it hardy seafood platter?

[77] Or is it more of a chicken dinner supreme?

[78] Like, fishermen's wharf on a hot day trash.

[79] Yes.

[80] Yes.

[81] It is.

[82] That's what it is.

[83] What?

[84] Hashtag.

[85] What?

[86] Fisherman's war.

[87] Like, you see a seagull picking at an empty bread bowl that's got like the clam chatter residue on it.

[88] And then a tourist right behind it taking a picture of it.

[89] Exactly.

[90] Then making the seagull's waist smaller and the seagull's boobs bigger.

[91] And then there's no. No lines around the seagull's eyes.

[92] Oh, where did he get those boots?

[93] Oh, my God.

[94] Did he have a rib removed?

[95] That seagull is so skinny.

[96] No, he's on a paleo diet.

[97] I was going to say, you lived in San Francisco in the 90s.

[98] No. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[99] 2000s.

[100] Oh, 2000s.

[101] Yeah.

[102] Shit.

[103] Then there's no way you remember this.

[104] What is it?

[105] Because there was a thing on Fisherman's Wharf, Pier 9.

[106] I used to go with my dad, so maybe I remember it.

[107] To Pier 39?

[108] To Pier 39.

[109] Okay, same, same death.

[110] Yeah.

[111] Same area.

[112] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[113] But basically Pier 39 was like the weird marionette doll store that you're, my parents would be like, we're never buying you anything from that store.

[114] So don't look at it.

[115] Those are precious art pieces.

[116] There's no fucking way.

[117] Or they're like, you can pick one thing.

[118] And I'm like, I absolutely want the $400 marionette.

[119] My mother's like, what is wrong?

[120] How do you do it every time?

[121] But they used to have on Pier 39.

[122] I guess I'm thinking of this because of the Siegel.

[123] we were talking, sure, a bag of bones, seagull.

[124] Just thinking they had a thing there in the 80s.

[125] Then you could go in and sing along to your favorite, like Whitney Houston hit and make a cassette tape of yourself singing a hit.

[126] So it was like individualized karaoke, one person karaoke to no one, but then you had a tape, you could like.

[127] Was it a video car?

[128] No. It was that long ago.

[129] That's only a cassette.

[130] Yeah, that would have cost $5 ,000.

[131] at the time.

[132] Yes, exactly.

[133] That is awesome.

[134] But I feel like they had those around in malls all over the country and then eventually became like, because these videos pop up of kids doing that, like, that must have become the video you could get.

[135] And then like, remember how they would have like teen magazine and you and your sister had to sit in and they take a photo of it and show you on the cover of teen magazine?

[136] Yes.

[137] It was like the young girl's version of the time person of the year thing.

[138] But instead, it's like, I made it on cover 17.

[139] I feel like you getting that and those things are the rich girl equivalent, not to say we're rich, no offense.

[140] The rich girl equivalent of having to get a caricature drawn of you on Fisherman's Wharf, which was just like the bottom of the barrel, are you ready for your low self -esteem beginning.

[141] Yes, right.

[142] Here's how big your teeth are, Georgia.

[143] Yes.

[144] Here's how like your head is like from mine, you know, they give you a tiny body.

[145] Yes.

[146] Like if you're like, I like to rate horses, it's a tiny body.

[147] tiny body on a tiny horse but then you're accentuated whatever you hate about yourself yeah so I already had a big face so it's like they couldn't figure out what to do with me because it was like there was our the caricature itself is a gigantic head that's the joke I don't know what to do with this girl it looks exactly we're gonna make this we're gonna make her eyes bluer like that's not gonna hurt her feelings how do we how do we make this child the hate herself for the rest of her life That just made you feel better about yourself because you're like, wow, my eyes are like pools.

[148] And then it's just like, so you're saying that's my real sized face.

[149] Yep.

[150] That's not a caricature.

[151] That was for a long time, like what you wanted is that big head, lollipop head, skinny body.

[152] And it was.

[153] You're above.

[154] Lollipop head, skinny body, tiny horse.

[155] Golden Gate Bridge in the back.

[156] Little cowboy hat.

[157] Like what?

[158] Hashtag.

[159] This is.

[160] That was the original Instagram for characters from Pira 39.

[161] Can everyone please post their caricature drawings or their cover of Teen Magazine photos from when they were kids?

[162] From the tourist trap.

[163] Oh my God.

[164] I was a cowgirl.

[165] I have one as me as a fucking cowgirl.

[166] I swear to that.

[167] It's from Knott's Berry Farm.

[168] Do you have one?

[169] Yes, I have one at the group of friends who all decided one day we were going to go to Pier 30.

[170] And, you know, who's in it, legendary Holly Gardner, tampon suitcase story, who, who, I have to say, suffered greatly in the retelling of the tampon suitcase story was my best friend from sixth grade through high school.

[171] So, like, she really told it and said her full name if you would really hate it in her.

[172] Yes, exactly.

[173] No, no, no. That was just a bad moment in our relationship.

[174] But she's in that, you know, the all stars of like seventh grade essentially.

[175] And what it is is one of those old -fashioned.

[176] cowboy pictures that's supposed to be like a tin type.

[177] Right.

[178] And we're all dressed up in costumes.

[179] Right.

[180] Okay.

[181] So here's what we're going to do.

[182] Stephen, there's no way you don't have a caricature of yourself as your kid.

[183] As a dinosaur.

[184] Yes.

[185] You're at Jurassic Park.

[186] You're writing a tiny dinosaur.

[187] Okay.

[188] So here's what we're going to do.

[189] The three of us are going to post it on our Instagram.

[190] Can I just retell?

[191] Hold on.

[192] Stevens, as George is saying, we know you have one.

[193] Stephen's looking it's almost like he was in like a pantomime of a confused guy.

[194] And the second I said, Jurassic Park came snapped right into it but just like oh yeah I have about this well because my sister and I have one of us doing it and then we recreated it as adults like a few years ago nice yeah is it a character or is it um it's like you know a green screen being like chased by a dinosaur so we recreated that because he's younger than us yeah got it like we have the middle beginning and hopefully end of what they put what we were able to do as children yes completely yes we We span three generations.

[195] This is our family.

[196] I think I was too scared to get a real caricature, though.

[197] You were thinking you were too scared to find out what your one major feature is on your face.

[198] Yeah.

[199] I think I was too scared.

[200] So like at Knott's Berry Farm, Georgia, I never did that.

[201] Yeah.

[202] He was easy on me because I think I was like four.

[203] And then please tag.

[204] Let's do MFM caricature hashtag because we have.

[205] The whole thing pointed this is to get our own hashtag, right?

[206] That's what you wanted, Karen.

[207] Now you're speaking a language.

[208] Like, on Twitter hashtags are straight up for nerds that never use Twitter.

[209] Not Instagram.

[210] I know.

[211] Instagram is a completely different language.

[212] So you have to call this.

[213] Just tag us.

[214] Just tag us.

[215] MFM caricature is good.

[216] I mean, those are the ones.

[217] We want big head little, I want big head little body.

[218] Okay.

[219] You're looking for a potentially fake magazine cover.

[220] No, I don't care.

[221] It's just so funny.

[222] I'd love to see it.

[223] that whatever the like the play area art we've spent too much time on this just post it and tag us disagree i think we could dig deeper on this okay also it makes me think of this too because it's like just to not to argue with you first we were definitely middle middle class but my mother would always do this thing we're like if we walk by the caricature person she go you don't want that it's not worth it pick something that's a good trick she would always like out of the side of mouth basically be like, you know, you don't want that's not going to like it.

[224] You're going to like it.

[225] You like it now.

[226] You won't like it by the time you get home.

[227] She's a smart lady.

[228] And she knows how to work with people, I feel like to like make them think that they're making their own decision.

[229] Yeah.

[230] You mean manipulate children?

[231] Yes.

[232] By parenting 101.

[233] Give them two options.

[234] Make one of them shitty.

[235] Make the other one the one you want them to do.

[236] And then you get whatever you want.

[237] Do you want to nap or do you want to help Mommy with laundry?

[238] That's also headwriting.

[239] If anybody wants to take my class, that's, that's the first one.

[240] Wow.

[241] That's good stuff.

[242] What the fuck were we, how did we get on?

[243] What did?

[244] We were talking about how things are super official on social media.

[245] Oh, yeah.

[246] Speaking of social media, I have a correction because social media told us.

[247] Perfect.

[248] It's a, you know, another clarification because last week I talked about the book I'm reading, the Icelandic, we, we, we guessed Norwegian.

[249] It's called I Remember You by Ears.

[250] Sirgador, Dota, remember?

[251] Yes.

[252] And we guessed all sorts of places where this book must be from.

[253] None of them were right.

[254] Because Deborah Taylor, 1654 on Instagram, said, Yersa is from Iceland.

[255] You can tell if someone is Scandinavian slash Nordic, if their last name has something at the end that resembles son or daughter, like Dutter.

[256] Oh, my God.

[257] Good to know.

[258] Scandinavia is, then she goes on to give us a report.

[259] Scandinavia is geographically considered Norway, Sweden and Denmark.

[260] Culturally, Finland and Iceland are included.

[261] Generally, all five in their territories like Greenland and the Faroe Islands are considered Nordic countries.

[262] Maybe you can hit Recovic on your next tour and invite her to the show.

[263] Love you both.

[264] So your author lives in Recovic?

[265] Yes.

[266] Recovick, by the way, is the capital of Iceland.

[267] Well, I should have known that then.

[268] Now we all know.

[269] Here's why I know.

[270] In sixth grade, we had to do reports on countries of the world.

[271] I'll tell this story again, even though it's not really a story.

[272] I love it.

[273] And I got picked second to last.

[274] And the only, so if your name got picked out of a jar and you got to go up and there goes Matt Braco.

[275] He picks Italy.

[276] Italy's gone.

[277] Everyone, all the people with Italian grandparents.

[278] In two more swipes, Ireland's gone.

[279] What?

[280] Come on.

[281] Then it goes all the way down through the 40 or 60.

[282] kids in my class.

[283] I can't remember however many.

[284] Then it's me. I pick Iceland.

[285] Last, guess who was last?

[286] Holly Gardner.

[287] No. And she got Malta.

[288] Literally, this was pre internet, pre everything.

[289] This is encyclopedia.

[290] There's two lines about Malta.

[291] I fucking care.

[292] Literally.

[293] The librarian couldn't help us.

[294] She was like, nobody knows these countries.

[295] Nobody wants to hear about them.

[296] Who's your teacher?

[297] What the fuck?

[298] What's Mr. Jlardy doing?

[299] there.

[300] So I end up digging up as much as I can find out and become quite interested in Iceland because I was like, wait a second.

[301] Greenland's the one that covered in ice and Iceland actually.

[302] I did a full report.

[303] I became a true fan of Iceland.

[304] And then 25 years later, Iceland is all the rage.

[305] And I'm just like, I will tell you about Reykjavik and not vice versa.

[306] Okay.

[307] Well, so I remember you is a good Icelandic book.

[308] It's part of it takes place in Reykjavik.

[309] It's fucking creepy as shit, I highly recommend it.

[310] I'm going to look up, because that sounds familiar.

[311] I feel like there might be.

[312] I bet there's a movie.

[313] Yes.

[314] Because it's very like, as I'm reading it, I'm like, I can picture the movie.

[315] Yeah.

[316] Daughter.

[317] There's a little boy, ghost boy.

[318] Gustav's son.

[319] Gustav's daughter.

[320] Your's doctor.

[321] Your's doctor.

[322] It's got out there one day for tour.

[323] Hell yes.

[324] What do you have?

[325] What are you doing?

[326] I have the following.

[327] Oh, shit, dude.

[328] And I repeat, and I declare, I have started the podcast, which, now this is weird, and maybe you can explain this to me, Georgia, Ann.

[329] Okay.

[330] The podcast is called West Cork.

[331] Oh.

[332] Right?

[333] It's a true crime, legendary true crime podcast that I've heard about for so long, only recently became available on iTunes podcast.

[334] Because it was Audible original that I recommended three years ago.

[335] Easily.

[336] Easily.

[337] that it is so I can't believe you haven't it's one of those ones that everyone's like but Karen you'll really like it and you're like but no then no no and then three years later you go do you know what I found I found you know what you need to hear about I'm excellent it's excellent it's excellent it's one of those angering ones because it's a cold case still I don't know if anything's come out of it since it came out but it takes place in Ireland West Cork Ireland Yep.

[338] Beautifully done podcast.

[339] It's just a classic, wonderful true crime podcast.

[340] I didn't know you couldn't listen unless you had Audible, so that's awesome.

[341] Yeah, it just came, it just became, we just went wide.

[342] And then I was like, God, I know this, though.

[343] How do I know this?

[344] And I'm listening to it.

[345] And obviously, what, what's the one place I would go to if I'm like, how would, who would have told me?

[346] Who would have told me about this podcast?

[347] And truly, I was just like, for some reason, well, it's because it was three years ago, which means it was 100 years ago in my brain.

[348] But we also get tagged in a lot of them, like, you have to listen to this and you're like, okay.

[349] I know.

[350] And friends tell us.

[351] At this point, it's like it's going to be from one or either us to each other or a bunch of other people.

[352] Or literally thousands of other people who know our taste very well.

[353] But I will say this, what a listen, even separate from if you're interested, not interested in true crime or just a basic story, this almost goes beyond a lot of that.

[354] There's like a kind of like small.

[355] psychology element to it and it is a true like just a quilt of all the different Irish accents.

[356] There's a guy in there.

[357] There's an Irish detective who I kept thinking was from France because his accent would go into this but she's French.

[358] She's French.

[359] This detective is from I believe they said he was from Galway or something I can't remember but his accent was unlike anything I've ever heard Irish style but it like would go into these other places and then come back around and you're just like this is how this brogue turns into all these things in all different areas this isn't narrative this is like real people because it's true crime so yeah that's good I'm excited for you that's a great one I'm just almost done I'm on the last half of the last episode but I do that thing where I can't I can't stop tell you what if there's been any update since it came out because i haven't oh okay i will i will but i did want to read you one quote which you may or may not remember okay but there's a witness who was old who testified to seeing something or you know whatever some some story and but he was old so they were trying to act like he shouldn't have testified and he was telling me i need to be in a home for the bewildered you know that's his way of saying that they didn't trust his testimony and he was like mad about it tell him be I need to be at a home for the bewilder do they have those just if you're generally bewildered you get to go stay in a hospital for a while see someone stupid doing a dumb thing and you're like I don't even understand why you would try that and it's like let's go home let's go to your bewolder you're too bewildered to be out in the world right now Yeah.

[360] It'll be in a home for the bewildered.

[361] Can we call this episode a home for the bewildered, Stephen?

[362] So that's my most prominent.

[363] I just love when there's a good podcast that I get up and like do the dishes with and get my stuff done.

[364] It's like you finally have someone supporting you and the things you want to do and the bullshit shit you want to do, not the work.

[365] It's like, yes, finally someone wants me to do the dishes and fold my laundry and like go for a walk.

[366] yeah just go kind of sit and stare well if that's what you want for me west cork you know best because you love me the most right and i trust you can i plug can i plug something about me oh wish you would okay great i was on a podcast and i'm really i was really nervous about it and i'm really happy with the way it turned out and proud of myself for it because it was like kind of some hard um topics that i hadn't really shared before um so it's this podcast called turned out a punk that I'm a big fan of.

[367] And it's a Sky Damien who is in this band fucked up.

[368] And he interviews people who are in, and are in and have been in the punk scene and how they got into it.

[369] And there's been all kinds of great, you know, Fred Armisen, Bill Hader, a lot of comedians.

[370] And then a lot of like, you know, musicians like the go -goes and old punks.

[371] And it's just really cool.

[372] And I wanted to be on it because I love punk.

[373] And so I was on it.

[374] And I'm really happy with it.

[375] So check out my episode of Turned Out a Punk.

[376] It's episode 321.

[377] Turned out punk?

[378] Turned out a punk.

[379] Turned out a punk.

[380] Thank you.

[381] Oh, Nora went back to school.

[382] Noren's back.

[383] She's back in class.

[384] What grade is she in now?

[385] Eighth.

[386] Neeses growing up.

[387] But also like just in time.

[388] It just makes me happy because it was really, for someone who loves school so much and well also I just can't imagine that in eighth grade like right when things are starting to get interesting and kind of fun or whatever you're getting your footing you just have to go sit home sit on the computer for a year gone crazy I wonder if it's like if it's kind of got them out of some trouble they would have been in or means that now they're going to get in more trouble to make up for the past trouble they would have gotten into I say probably more trouble Yeah.

[389] Although, did I tell you when Laura told me she was going back, I texted Nora and said, I hope you're still popular.

[390] Do you think you're going to be popular?

[391] What if you're not popular anymore?

[392] Did I tell you that already?

[393] You didn't tell me that.

[394] That's so funny.

[395] She sent all the laughing, like crying emojis going, I hope so.

[396] Do you think it's like, you know how you measure how much you've grown on the wall?

[397] Do you think when they all left school before right when COVID hit, they all measured their popularity on the wall?

[398] And they have to go back and stand up against the wall.

[399] the wall again and be like, oh shit, Nora, you're still at the same popularity level, but Lisa with two L's over here is popularer than she skyrocketed.

[400] So over the past year, Nora, give her your crown.

[401] You have to give her your crown.

[402] It's so confusing at this age.

[403] But yeah, I guess people just don't like you in real life.

[404] Like, you're great on Zoom.

[405] It's your worst nightmare is your only good on Zoom.

[406] Can you imagine if you adjusted so well to the pandemic that then you really, as opposed to all the people that are just hate being on Zoom and the timing so off and shitty.

[407] You're just like, I've come alive on Zoom.

[408] People finally care about me. Don't make me go back to standing on two legs and having to wear pants in front of people and not being surrounded by the stench of cat food.

[409] I can't.

[410] I am at my best when I'm surrounded by the stench of cat food and no one knows it.

[411] That's when I'm at my best.

[412] I just need two snoring dogs near me to really podcast.

[413] What if I started?

[414] I know I love your dogs.

[415] They're out.

[416] What have I started wearing like a cardboard piece of cardboard behind me that has this wallpaper on it just so I always have because I need this background now.

[417] Like a backpack with a pink pink floral wallpapered cardboard background.

[418] Just so everyone knows how good I look.

[419] Yeah.

[420] With this.

[421] I'm going to start carrying around books like I'm in the eighth grade.

[422] And I'm just like, oh, these are my books from my bookshelf from my.

[423] Zoom when I was trying to seem smart like a belt a leather belt around the books Lollipop Lollipop you don't know when they walked to school like that what was that all about oh did you hear the great author Beverly Cleary Dye?

[424] Yeah, RIP what a legend she really she wrote amazing books she wrote a ton of great books boys like those books girls like those books young old everybody read them to your kids.

[425] Get them into it.

[426] God, it's so good.

[427] Ramona Quimby.

[428] There's one that starts out.

[429] Ramona is so upset because her and Beezus went to the playground and some kid kept saying Jesus Beezus to Beezus and Ramona was out of her mind angry.

[430] And I was like, I just remember reading it and being like, get let's get into this Ramona.

[431] What happened to you?

[432] Tell me your story.

[433] Yes.

[434] I mean like it's such good writing for kids.

[435] It's It's saying what happens to you matters and, like, is a story worthy and a big deal.

[436] Yeah.

[437] Yeah.

[438] So good.

[439] You don't have to, like, waltz and through a wardrobe to get your story written, everyone.

[440] You don't need a big, weird Christian lion telling your story.

[441] You don't need a giant peach.

[442] You don't need insects to be your friend, although it's very helpful.

[443] I also, I loved the idea of being on a giant peach that you could, like, lay on and then just take a bite of if you wanted.

[444] Oh, my God.

[445] That was my favorite.

[446] I read that book so many times.

[447] and I was a kid.

[448] We read that book.

[449] Also, did you have the copy of James and the Giant Peach that had the original illustrations?

[450] And when they first show James, he is so scary looking, like, his little eyes are so dark.

[451] I don't remember that.

[452] And he's all like, you know, because his parents were, his parents were killed by escaped animals from the zoo.

[453] Yeah, hippopotamus.

[454] And so he had to go live with Aunt Spiker and Ants fun.

[455] It was the saddest book ever.

[456] So tragic.

[457] It's so tragic and horrible.

[458] They're so mean to him.

[459] I know.

[460] Jesus.

[461] We were, no wonder we're the way we are.

[462] I know.

[463] For real.

[464] It's all real dolls' fault.

[465] Should we do exactly right news?

[466] Yeah.

[467] I don't think there's much exactly right news this week, right?

[468] Just some highlights of good stuff that's happening on shows.

[469] That's right.

[470] Well, really exciting.

[471] I'm sure you heard the trailer that 10fold more wicked's season three kicks off this week.

[472] It's called murder in the court.

[473] And it covers historical true crime story.

[474] about a fractured family in Texas.

[475] So check that out.

[476] It's so good.

[477] It's so great.

[478] Such a good series.

[479] It's such a good podcast.

[480] We love it.

[481] We're so proud of Kate Winkler -Dawson and all her amazing writing talent and her amazing podcasting talent.

[482] She really is making just a hit.

[483] Yeah.

[484] I mean, people really love this show.

[485] Such good feedback on it.

[486] She's just amazing.

[487] We're thrilled to work with her.

[488] There's more COVID -19 information on this podcast.

[489] We'll kill you this week.

[490] So go check out what Aaron and Aaron have to tell you.

[491] There's just, it's a bonus episode.

[492] So much good stuff.

[493] And I saw what you did.

[494] Millie and Danielle watch and discuss the amazing films with the incredible Pam Greer, including Jackie Brown and coffee.

[495] I mean, those are freaking classics.

[496] This woman is a legend.

[497] And Millian Danielle are the people to tell you about it.

[498] They break it down.

[499] All right.

[500] Should we get into this?

[501] Oh, yeah.

[502] Also, pop sockets in the merch in the merch store.

[503] MyCatrimur .com store.

[504] Popsockets.

[505] We have lots of them.

[506] Goodbye.

[507] Popsockets.

[508] Get into it.

[509] Get into it.

[510] Pop it.

[511] Pop it.

[512] Pop it and lock it.

[513] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[514] Absolutely.

[515] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[516] Exactly.

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[531] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[532] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[533] Goodbye.

[534] So the story I'm doing this week was recommended by a listener.

[535] His Twitter handle is, or her Twitter name is sweetly sarcastic.

[536] She's at sweetly sarcast.

[537] She sent me a tweet that said, it said read this on medium .com immediately.

[538] thought of you twists turns psychological drama highly recommend and a damn good my favorite murder story to exo and she put the link and then she put no offense hashtag true crime which made me laugh see there it's used i think it's being sweetly sarcastic got it um so attached was a link to this article on medium dot com written by a corey mead called the poet and And it tells a tale of this story out of Wichita in the late 70s that I have never heard even an inkling of.

[539] So the majority of what I'm about to tell you is a retelling of Corey Mead's article from Medium .com called The Poet.

[540] So I highly recommend.

[541] Is Wichita spooky or is it just me?

[542] Well, you know what you're thinking?

[543] You're about to find out why you think that's true.

[544] Or do you want me to just say it right now?

[545] No, go.

[546] Okay.

[547] No spoilers.

[548] Well, it's about to happen.

[549] There's other information we got was from Medium.

[550] Medium .com article by a writer named K .M. Brown called Trauma Stole these women's lives, as well as a 1988 People Magazine article by writer named Gene Stone.

[551] Also an article from the witch dot eagle by Jason Tid and Legacy .com.

[552] Information from Legacy .com, and also facts from a book called Nightmare in Wichita, The Hunt for the BTK Killer.

[553] That's what you're thinking of.

[554] Of course.

[555] Yes.

[556] So we go, I take you now to Wichita, Kansas, November 21st, 1978.

[557] So 48 -year -old Ruth Finley, who's a secretary for the head of the security at Southwestern Bell Telephone Company, she's out running errands on her lunch break in downtown Wichita and she's leaving a greeting card shop on North Market Street when a blue -green 1964 Chevy Bel Air pulls up, cuts off her path and a man jumps out.

[558] He's wearing black frame glasses and a jean jacket over his sweater.

[559] No, he's not a hipster.

[560] It's 1978.

[561] He isn't about to ask her about seeing animal collective life.

[562] Or if she has an extra cigarette.

[563] Yeah.

[564] Ruth immediately panics because she's seen this man before.

[565] This is actually the third time this stranger has approached her.

[566] Each encounter being a little bit scarier than the last.

[567] So at this moment, he jumps out of the car.

[568] Ruth looks around.

[569] All she can see is an old lady like way up the street.

[570] So she knows she's alone.

[571] So before she can do anything, she's kind of in shock.

[572] He kicks her in the shin really hard.

[573] then yells, have you got my money?

[574] She doubles over in pain.

[575] And as she does, the man shoves her into the backseat of the car, slides in next to her.

[576] And then a man who her attacker calls Buddy, who's sitting behind the wheel, drinking from a paper bag wrapped bottle, he basically takes off when the attacker shuts the door.

[577] So Ruth immediately slides over and tries to get out the other backseat door, but the handle's gone.

[578] She looks around.

[579] She notices the upholstery in this car is torn up.

[580] The floorboards littered with junk.

[581] There's chains.

[582] There's rags.

[583] There's an old gas can.

[584] There's pieces of concrete.

[585] And she also sees the dashboard is held together with masking tape.

[586] So the man, her attacker starts going through her purse.

[587] He pulls out a $350 paycheck, $100 savings bond, and her safety deposit key.

[588] He says, we've struck it rich.

[589] but then he finds the business card of a police officer and he starts screaming you damn stupid bitch at her and he picks up one of the pieces of concrete on the floor hits her in the head with it and knocks her out.

[590] So she's fading in and out of consciousness but she later remembers snippets of the men's conversation at one point there at the Twin Lakes shopping center she hears the driver complain about the shoddy job that Sears did on fixing his car at another point she hears them say we'll get rid of her but not here.

[591] It's then that she remembers she's got a can of mace in her purse because the other two times she went into this guy it scared her so badly that she has mace in her purse but she's too afraid to move or do anything at the moment.

[592] They end up driving around for hours and so finally Ruth says you have to let me out, I have to go to the bathroom.

[593] They both laugh at her.

[594] And then she basically says, I'm going to throw up if I don't go to the restroom.

[595] and she starts gagging.

[596] So they say, okay, hold on a second.

[597] And they pull into a park.

[598] So at this point now, it's cold and dark out because it's November.

[599] So they make Ruth take off her sweater and her shoes so that she won't run anywhere or try to get away.

[600] And her abductor, you know, the guy who jumped out at her on the street, he walks her into the park.

[601] And he's saying stuff like, oh, this is going to be fun.

[602] I'll watch you and you watch me. and then he unzips his pants to start peeing he says I'll go first and she grabs her can of mace and sprays him with it because they let her take her purse for some reason so then she runs she runs up she sees a bush she kind of runs away hides in the bush the guy's walking around going you can't get away you'll freeze out here just come out will be nice to you you know whatever but she stays hidden.

[603] Her feet start going numb from how cold it is.

[604] She waits.

[605] She waits until it all goes quiet.

[606] And then she runs up to a higher vantage point.

[607] And when she doesn't see the car, the Bel Air, she sees that basically they've left.

[608] So she goes, she runs out of the park and she runs across the street to a liquor store and has the store owner call the police and then call her husband Ed.

[609] Amazing.

[610] So now her husband, Ed, hasn't heard from her all evening.

[611] So he's already filed a missing person's report with the police.

[612] So the liquor store owner calls Ed, says who he is, says Ruth is safe.

[613] Ed rushes to the store, but by the time he gets there, his wife's already been taken to the police station.

[614] So Ed, when he finally sees Ruth, she's shaken, but she's grateful to be alive.

[615] Um, unfortunately, this isn't the first time she's experienced a brutal attack and it wouldn't be the last.

[616] What?

[617] So Ruth Finley, her maiden name is Ruth Smock.

[618] She's born a February 1st, 1930 in rural Missouri.

[619] She's one of three children.

[620] Her father's a farmer.

[621] Her mother's a homemaker.

[622] She has a normal upbringing by depression era standards.

[623] So they had enough money to live, but they didn't have any extra like most families.

[624] Yeah.

[625] Her parents were pretty strict.

[626] and they were very stoic and you know none of the kids are really they were all encouraged to keep their emotions to themselves sure so when Ruth is 15 she moves out on her own to a boarding house in nearby Fort Scott, Missouri to take sewing and typing classes and a year later she gets a job working for the local phone company and then on the night of October 14th 1946 when Ruth is 16 years old.

[627] She comes home from the grocery store and is startled by the sound of the screen door opening behind her.

[628] And she turns to look and sees a roughly 50 -year -old white male intruder who grabs her, starts pulling at her clothes.

[629] She fights back against him.

[630] She presses her thumbs into his eyes.

[631] But the man overpowers her.

[632] He has a chloroform on a rag that he holds over her mouth.

[633] And as she's passing out, she sees him heating a flat iron over the stove.

[634] She wakes up later with scratches on her face, arms and legs, and both of her thighs branded with first and second degree burns.

[635] Oh my God.

[636] But her clothes are intact and investigators find no evidence of sexual assault.

[637] And it's unclear if that assailant was ever caught.

[638] But so she goes on to Mary when she's 20 years old, June 1st, 1950, and she marries her husband, Ed Finley, who's an accountant for a construction firm.

[639] They settle into a one -story house in a quiet neighborhood in Wichita, Kansas.

[640] Ruth gets a job as the secretary for the head of security at the Southwestern Bell Telephone Company.

[641] And in their free time, Ed likes to paint landscapes and Ruth makes ceramics.

[642] They have two sons.

[643] And they basically live a quiet, fairly normal life.

[644] She's described as soft -spoken, sober, and they're just an average middle -class couple.

[645] So basically all of this starts on a day in June in 1977.

[646] So basically, at this point, Ed is 50 years old.

[647] He's working in there in the backyard when he suddenly collapses.

[648] So he's rushed to the hospital.

[649] Everybody thinks It's a heart attack, but he has to spend the night in the hospital to get his diagnosis of what's actually going on.

[650] So with both of their sons grown and out of the house, Ruth, now 48 years old, is left to spend the night alone in her house for the first time in 30 years.

[651] And this is after the attack, right?

[652] No, no, now we're, this is before.

[653] So this is how everything started.

[654] Oh, okay.

[655] Got it, got it.

[656] Is this night, June in 1977.

[657] Okay.

[658] So she turns on the radio to distract herself, but all of the news on the radio is about Wichita's first serial killer, the BTK killer, and the seven victims he had so far murder.

[659] Oh, no. So, yeah, he had been, he had been, you know, obviously going undetected.

[660] There's basically had a serial killer loose in Wichita, and no one knew who he was.

[661] and it was just, it just, he had killed seven people at that point.

[662] So that's her first night home alone.

[663] Dude.

[664] So she has to turn it to a different station to distract herself.

[665] And then a little later that night, the phone rings.

[666] So Ruth is afraid it might be the hospital saying something bad about Ed.

[667] When she answers, instead she hears the voice of a strange man who says, is this Ruth Smock from Fort Scott, Kansas?

[668] And she is surprised to hear her maiden.

[669] name and to hear her old hometown she says yes and he says i know all about that night and he then reads the article from an october nineteen forty six issue of the kansas newspaper the fort scott tribune all about ruth's horrifying attack oh my god um so the man on the other end he reads the whole article to her then he asks if ruth still got her brand she says i don't know what you're talking about.

[670] But he says that he was a construction worker who found this article about Ruth in the wall of a house he was demolishing.

[671] He says he's going to blackmail her and threaten to revive the story and tell everyone she knows unless she pays him.

[672] She hangs up the phone.

[673] She gets a terrible headache.

[674] She goes to sleep and then she sleeps for 10 hours.

[675] What the fuck.

[676] So she wakes up the next morning, she gets the call from the hospital to say, Ed didn't have a heart attack.

[677] The collapse was from a car accident injury that had happened a year before.

[678] He has to stay in the hospital another week for observation, which means that Ruth is alone in the house for another week.

[679] And she's fearing another ominous phone call from this man, but none come.

[680] When Ed's released and back at home, Ruth decides not to bother him with the story of that call and just decides to put the whole thing behind her.

[681] But then later that summer, she's at work when an envelope appears on her desk with her name on it.

[682] She opens it up to find that same newspaper article that the man had read on the phone to her.

[683] So she rips it up and throws it in the trash.

[684] And then the calls start again.

[685] Ruth keeps them a secret from Ed.

[686] And so when she answers the phone and hears the man's voice, she immediately hangs up.

[687] And sometimes Ed will answer, but he basically the caller just hangs up on Ed.

[688] So then in August of 1977, she's window shopping in downtown Wichita.

[689] And she notices a man that's, they're on a crowded sidewalk.

[690] And but suddenly there's a man walking alongside her.

[691] And then he says, you've done such a good job working this week.

[692] You can take the weekend off.

[693] And she's kind of freaked out, but she stays calm.

[694] She looks at him, estimates he's in his late 40s, he's 5 '9, he's skinny, he's wearing a plaid sport shirt and jeans, white canvas shoes, and he has black hair graying at the temples.

[695] So she kind of takes a picture of him with her mind, but she ignores him, basically, and she just keeps walking, but he keeps talking to her.

[696] And he says, you work for the phone company, don't you?

[697] What do you do there?

[698] Are you an operator?

[699] Then he tells her that he won one big at gambling and asked, do you want to go to Vegas sometimes?

[700] times.

[701] So she's just keeping, she's still ignoring him.

[702] And finally, she says, I'm waiting for my husband and his tone changes.

[703] And he says, are you still married?

[704] I like your face.

[705] I'm going to see you again.

[706] You can count on that.

[707] Some people's fantasies are other people's nightmares.

[708] So he disappears and then like into the crowd and then Ed finally arrives.

[709] And so she tells him everything that's going on or that's just gone on.

[710] He says, oh, he's just trying to flirt with you it's fine ed ed so a year goes by um she still gets the occasional phone call but but she just hangs up and she doesn't see the man in person again until a year later in june of 1978 when she's walking by an alleyway in downtown wichita when a hand reaches out and grabs her wrist and she hears a man yell ruth get back here you stupid bitch and talk to me but she manages to get away from him and she runs into the macy's across the street.

[711] She finally gets to the fifth floor of the Macy's.

[712] She realizes where she is and she's that she's basically like blacked out from fear.

[713] So she calls Ed.

[714] He comes and meets her at the Macy's and she tells him about that incident and about the man that talked to her the year before and finally tells him about all the threatening phone calls and all the stuff that happened.

[715] So they Ed actually files a police report, but nothing comes of it.

[716] So then four months later, In October of 1978, Ruth gets another mysterious letter, and this one is sent to her home.

[717] And it's written in the same messy scroll that the other ones are written in.

[718] And this one reads, fuck you, fuck the police, fuck the telephone company.

[719] Oh, shit.

[720] Right?

[721] Which is, I mean, that's how we all feel.

[722] So a month later, the telephone company.

[723] Remember the telephone company?

[724] Yeah, Ma Bell.

[725] I remember Maubel.

[726] Ma Bell.

[727] Oh, it used to be these rates.

[728] Oh, these rates.

[729] Okay.

[730] Basically a month later, Ed and Ruth go to the police.

[731] And they talk to a lieutenant Bernie Drowatsky, who's a 34 -year veteran criminal investigator.

[732] And he's all his time is being taken up by this BTK case.

[733] I'm sure.

[734] Right?

[735] So he's listening to this nice couple.

[736] And in his mind, he's like, yeah, just don't have time for this.

[737] bullshit basically.

[738] But now the Ruth's got another letter where the man is now demanding $100.

[739] And he ends the letter, like this very threatening letter with a poem.

[740] And it says, wherever you go on water or land, you still got to pay or I tell about your brand.

[741] I am smart and no things to do.

[742] You talk to people I despise like police, lieutenant, and telespies.

[743] like filled with misspellings and weird spellings and stuff like that and this is the beginning of this onslaught of letters she just keeps getting them each one stranger than the next they're all they all have spelling errors sometimes he uses really big uncommon or like you know fancy vocabulary words and then sometimes he makes up words like sanchozed or psychostenia he's he's always he always refers to ruth's branding scars so the lieutenant takes these letters to to the lab for fingerprint testing they don't find anything um we're still getting the phone calls at home um so it doesn't really seem like the calls stop ruth and ed hope that the stalker's finally letting up but then later that month is when ruth is abducted by the two men in the Bel Air.

[744] So that brings us up to November of that first thing that happened.

[745] So, okay, so now that Ruth has been abducted, yeah.

[746] Suddenly, Lieutenant Drowatsky, it's taking this case seriously because it's starting to match up with the BTK MO, the weird letters and then the actual physical violence.

[747] Like, they're very worried that this is some, that it could be, it could be BTK in some other weird form.

[748] Right.

[749] They don't know.

[750] Or a copycat or they don't know what it is.

[751] So the day after her abduction, Drowatsky's colleague, Detective Richard Zortman, goes back to the park where Ruth escaped and finds her sweater, shoes, and footprints leading from the parking lot to that hiding spot in the bushes, but he doesn't find anything else.

[752] So they also run a check on all 1964 Chevy Bel Air owners in the area.

[753] None of them turn out to be suitable suspects for this abduction.

[754] So for five weeks, several officers are assigned to keep watch over Ruth as she takes her lunch breaks downtown, but nothing happens in that time.

[755] Another detective named Detective George Anderson takes Ruth and Ed to Fort Scott to dive back in to her attack from when she was 16 to see if he can find any leads connecting that to hurt this current stalker.

[756] They end up spending two days reexamining the old case, and she actually reviews enough.

[757] number of mugshots and the Fort Scott police have on file, but nothing comes of it.

[758] Detective Anderson even goes back for a second two -day trip on his own to look into it more, but he doesn't find anything.

[759] Meanwhile, Ruth can't sleep.

[760] She has bad headaches.

[761] She's getting stomach cramps on a daily basis.

[762] And Ed is spending his nights hidden in the bushes of their backyard armed with a 12 -gauge shotgun, hoping to catch this stalker approaching the house.

[763] Which I'm sure makes her feel extra safe that her husband.

[764] Like, that's terrifying.

[765] I know.

[766] I know.

[767] But they're freaking out.

[768] And this is their own mini personal family freak out on top of the wider city.

[769] Freak out.

[770] Then on December 13th, 1978, Lieutenant Drowatsky receives a letter of his own.

[771] Ruth Stalker is accusing him of, quote, protecting a whore from death.

[772] The lieutenant's furious.

[773] He now knows Ruth and Ed from this case.

[774] He believes Ruth to be a kind, good woman, and now he wants to catch the stalker even now more than ever.

[775] So the letters keep coming, each one with its own dark, threatening, error -riddled poem.

[776] Ed starts referring to the stalker as the poet, and the name actually ends up sticking.

[777] Then on January 25, 1979, the poet calls Ruth at work.

[778] He tells her that he has a quote -unquote surprise for her in the law.

[779] lobby down in a telephone company building.

[780] So she's, you know, cautiously walks downstairs.

[781] And there in the lobby phone booth, she finds a knife wrapped in a red bandana.

[782] She calls the police.

[783] They start questioning everyone that's been in the lobby and in the building.

[784] A few witnesses come forward and say that they saw a man resembling Ruth's description of the poet.

[785] They saw him near the phone booth, but no one really has any information of who he is or where he went.

[786] so no leads are taken from it.

[787] A month later, the poet starts sending letters to local businesses.

[788] He sends a local florist, a letter with $5 enclosed, and their request to send Ruth one black rose.

[789] The note reads, quote, if this is not enough, ENUF for a delivered one, then call and then it has Ed and Ruth's phone number and tell her to come and get it.

[790] Yikes.

[791] So as things get warmer, the letters and the calls start to slow down.

[792] So Ed and Ruth decide to take advantage and planification to Colorado in July of 1979.

[793] So to get ready for that, Ruth tells Ed she's going to go to the mall by herself to get a pair of jeans.

[794] Now, it doesn't like that she's going alone, but she says it's just going to be fine.

[795] I'm just running in really quickly.

[796] So on August 13th, Ruth leaves work.

[797] She goes to Dillard's department store at the town east mall in downtown Wichita, gets some jeans.

[798] By the time she's done, she goes outside to find herself walking through a practically empty parking lot alone at dusk.

[799] No. Has anything good ever happened in a mall parking lot?

[800] Not at all, especially toward the end of the day.

[801] And it's worse and worse, just as the sun goes down.

[802] That's right.

[803] But this was, you know, is 79.

[804] So malls were new for people.

[805] True.

[806] So before she gets to her car, she hears a familiar voice yell, hey Ruth.

[807] I didn't think you're going to make it this easy.

[808] She spins around, sees the poet lunging toward her.

[809] She tries unlocking her car door, but she can't get it in time.

[810] He grabs her, he shoves her against the car.

[811] He tells her to get in as he tosses a bag filled with rope, white tape, a red bandana, and half a drunken bottle of wine into the back seat.

[812] He tells her he's going to take her to a remote bridge near August airport road.

[813] But right when that happens, she breaks away from his grasp.

[814] manages to get into the car through the passenger side door and close up behind her.

[815] The window is slightly cracked.

[816] The poet tries to reach in after her, but she rolls it up.

[817] She forces him to pull his hand away and pinches a brown glove into the window as she peels out of the parking lot.

[818] This woman is a freaking hero.

[819] She gets away again.

[820] At the next red light, she looks down and realizes she feels a little lightheaded.

[821] She looks down.

[822] She's been stabbed.

[823] An eight -inch boning knife is sticking out of her left side of the left side of her torso.

[824] Holy shit.

[825] Right.

[826] So she'll later learn at the hospital this is actually the third stab wound that she got.

[827] There's two more in her back that she didn't even feel.

[828] Oh, my God.

[829] So she drives herself to a gas station phone booth.

[830] And there she dials the number that she's memorized, 268, 4 .1.

[831] 181, which is Lieutenant Drowatsky's boss, Captain Al Thimich, this is his direct line.

[832] And before Ruth can finish introducing herself, he picks up, she's like, hi, my name is Ruth, whatever.

[833] He's like, I know who you are, what's going on.

[834] And then she explains it to him.

[835] So he sends an officer to where she is, but she's so worried that the poet's going to find her there, that she drives home, which is only five minutes away.

[836] Captain Thimich has already called Ed and basically said what's going on.

[837] So by the time she gets home, Ed's waiting for her on the porch.

[838] As soon as she gets there, he gets in, drives her to the hospital.

[839] The police meet the couple at the hospital.

[840] So Ruth's, all of her wounds are treated.

[841] The doctors say that the third stab wound in her left side was so deep.

[842] Had it gone in any further, she would have died.

[843] She stays in the hospital for nine days.

[844] Her story makes the news once again.

[845] And the reporter covering the story for the Wichita Eagle Beacon newspaper is named Fred Mann.

[846] He reports the incident.

[847] And then in a follow -up article, he includes the police sketch of the poet.

[848] And for that, he begins to get threatening letters from the poet.

[849] So the day after Ruth gets out of the hospital, one of the nurses tells the police that a man who resembles the police sketch of the poet visited the nurses station several times while Ruth was in their care.

[850] So as a precaution, Lieutenant Drowatsky stays at Ruth and Ed's house for two days just to make sure they're okay.

[851] Nothing happens while he's there.

[852] So by September of 1979, the police have no leads and Ed is growing desperate to protect his wife.

[853] His employer puts up a $3 ,000 reward on the Finley's behalf for information leading to the poet's capture.

[854] But Ed also tries contacting the poet himself.

[855] He actually puts an ad out in the Wichita Eagle Beacon that says Poet, tell me what I owe you, R -S -F.

[856] And the poet responds to RSF, the price of my service to stay alive can now be settled at five.

[857] But this isn't enough information for Ed to know how much that is or what it's supposed to mean.

[858] They go back and for several times, but none of it leads anywhere.

[859] And it doesn't, it doesn't, nothing happens.

[860] So in October of 1917, The newspaper puts out a statement saying that they've been receiving letters from the poet directly to them.

[861] In one, he writes, quote, make sure that you don't confuse the executioners again, referencing the rumors that the poet and BTK are the same person.

[862] So the public, of course, is following this story like word for word.

[863] And there's rumors all around town, calls to the police constantly roll in with alleged poet.

[864] sightings.

[865] None of them bring any leads or evidence.

[866] So Lieutenant Drowatsky assigns eight officers to go undercover around downtown.

[867] And they have Ruth wear a wire whenever she goes out just in case he approaches her downtown again.

[868] There's no sign of him.

[869] But more letters with poems in them turn up on the Finley's porch and in their mailbox.

[870] And at night, they can hear strange noises from their garage.

[871] But when they go out there, they don't catch anybody.

[872] On Christmas Eve, 1979, the Finley's phone lines are cut, and that's the second time that's happened.

[873] So they're running out of options.

[874] Ruth agrees to undergo hypnosis to see if she can recall any other details from her attacks.

[875] A psychologist named Dr. Donald Shrag works with Ruth for two sessions until they reach the matter of her kidnapping.

[876] And her demeanor shifts from calm to distraught as she cries out, I want out of the car, I want out of the car.

[877] Dr. Schrague, after these sessions, he concludes that whoever the poet is, quote, it's likely he's had psychological treatment and possibly has been an estate institution, end quote.

[878] But he also believes that the man's highly intelligent.

[879] So in January of 1980, Lieutenant Drowatsky is promoted to vice and organized crime.

[880] So a man named Captain Mike Hill takes over Ruth's case.

[881] Soon after, Captain Hill receives a letter of his own.

[882] from the poet, a line of which reads, there was once a captain who had an asshole for a heart.

[883] He was a poet.

[884] Wow.

[885] I mean, that's poetry.

[886] It's really, it's so visual.

[887] So Duranke had forged this strong friendship with the Finleys.

[888] In fact, they went to the same church.

[889] They had basically the same political views.

[890] And so Diorotsky and his wife went out with Ed and Ruth on like double dates sometimes like they socialize together yeah um but captain hill has no personal relationship with them at all so it gives him the advantage of an objective point of view his first move after taking over the cases to install a surveillance camera in the finley's backyard he has officers posted in the finley's dining room on around the clock watch checking the cameras monitors for any suspicious activity ruth feels guilty that all of these officers have to endure such a boring job so she's constantly making them bake goods and sometimes she even reads some of the poet's letters allowed to them for entertainment.

[891] So a month later on Valentine's Day, Ruth gets a menacing Valentine -themed message and a second letter containing a strip of red bandana.

[892] And there are also letters being sent to local businesses.

[893] The utility companies get letters instructing them to shut off Finley's gas and power.

[894] The health department gets a letter claiming that Ruth Finley is spreading STDs around town.

[895] The local mortuary gets a letter threatening that Ruth, quote, would be requiring them soon, end quote.

[896] Yikes.

[897] So now Ed is driving Ruth to and from work, so she's never by herself.

[898] And at this point, it's been three years.

[899] Holy shit.

[900] So the police have looked into more than 300 people of interest.

[901] All of them are dead ends.

[902] They install another security camera at the Finley's home, this time hidden in a birdhouse in the backyard.

[903] Nothing happens.

[904] So in the spring of 1980, they decide to use Ruth as bait.

[905] They have her wear a bulletproof vest and walk around in downtown Wichita while several undercover cops are patrolling the area.

[906] But nothing comes of it.

[907] Then on June 3, 1980, Ruth gets a letter from the poet that's postmarked from Oklahoma City.

[908] So the Wichita police contact Oklahoma City police.

[909] They discovered that an anonymous woman called in to report a recent poet citing.

[910] So the police close in on a man who's recently been fired from his job in Wichita, and they're certain that this must be the poet.

[911] But when they bring him in for a lineup, Ruth says that although he does look similar, it's just not him.

[912] So by July 4, 1980, this story's national news.

[913] The rumors that the poet is BTK continue to spread, and police actually have a psycholinguistic expert named Dr. Murray S. Myron examine the handwriting in the letters.

[914] I know.

[915] So he determines that while it's the handwriting is actually similar to BTKs, it's highly unlikely that they're the same person.

[916] But the public can't let go of that idea.

[917] So the next few months, Stranger and Stranger items start showing up on the Finley's front porch, an ice pick, broken glass, Molotov cocktails, firecracker, cigarettes, even hair.

[918] And at Christmas time, the Finleys are watching TV when they're jolted by the sound of their window, breaking.

[919] Ed runs out onto the porch to find a burning wreath has been hung from their front window and the heat from that caused the window to explode.

[920] In a rage, Ed runs out into the street with a pair of garden shears screaming that he's going to kill the poet.

[921] So things continue like this into 1981.

[922] The Wichita police are widely criticized by the public who can't believe they haven't been aren't catching BTK either.

[923] So now, Chief of Police, Richard La Manion, or La Monion, but I'm going to say La Manion, is he's left fending off questions from the press about his department's ineptitude.

[924] But La Manion's annoyance turns personal on Friday, September 4th, 1981, when the poet sends a letter to his wife.

[925] Oh, shit.

[926] Now fed up La Manian, who has had no person.

[927] personal involvement in the case as of yet takes it over himself so he on september 5th he takes all the poet case files home and pours over them um it takes him several days but at the end of his research he believes he knows who the poet is he calls a private meeting for select officers on september 11th 1981 and he begins to explain his very secret theory he says he finds it strange that all of Ruth's attacks have been in public places, yet there are zero witnesses to any of these attacks.

[928] It's also strange that despite all the hours of round the clock surveillance, no officers and no neighbors have ever seen a trace of a trespasser, not even footprints on the Finley's property, and they live on a dead end street.

[929] When the surveillance camera is installed in the Finley's backyard, all the action moves to the front porch.

[930] And then after Ruth's abduction, the only footprints the investigating officer find at the park are Ruth's.

[931] And when Ruth is stabbed, instead of calling 911 at the phone booth, like a regular person would, she calls the direct line for central investigations.

[932] The officer's in the room.

[933] Basically, what he's saying is he thinks that the poet is Ruth Finley.

[934] As soon as you said he's able to look at it with the new chief is able to look at it without any personal.

[935] you know, because he's not friends with her.

[936] I was like, no bias.

[937] He doesn't have bias.

[938] He knows it's her.

[939] Yes.

[940] And then it hit me and I was like, don't say anything.

[941] Shut up.

[942] Shut up.

[943] Oh, my God.

[944] This is exactly the way writer Corey Mead laid this article out.

[945] So the entire time you think you're just reading this a case that you've never heard of before.

[946] And then by the time it gets to that exactly thing, yeah, where you're just like this woman is being hideously victimized, why have I never?

[947] heard this story before.

[948] So, but here's the thing.

[949] All of these police officers, the Wichita PD, think, think this guy is nuts.

[950] They think the chief is totally lost it.

[951] Well, there's no like Munchausen syndrome back then, right?

[952] Like, why would anyone do that to themselves?

[953] Right, exactly.

[954] It's the kind of thing that, yes, no one had ever talked about anything like that detailed before.

[955] But also they know Ruth.

[956] They've come to nowhere over the past.

[957] four years.

[958] They cannot believe she'd be the kind of person who would put her husband through that, who would do that to the police or do it to herself.

[959] Yeah.

[960] That's not what she's like.

[961] Like that's she's a kind, quiet, you know, very upstanding lady.

[962] And what would her motive be?

[963] It didn't make sense to them.

[964] It didn't add up.

[965] Yeah.

[966] But since La Manion is the boss, they have to follow his theory.

[967] So beginning Monday, September 14th, 1981, La Munion sets up a 24 -hour surveillance on the Finleys, with officers trading off 12 -hour shifts in a van two blocks away from the Finley's house at the Eastgate Mall, this time without the Finley's knowing.

[968] So three days later, at 8 .30 in the morning on September 17th, the surveilling police capture photos of Ed driving Ruth up to the mailbox at the Eastgate Mall and depositing.

[969] several pieces of mail so they run over and basically it takes them until 1 .30 to get a postal officer sorry the postal inspector to open that mailbox and inside they find two letters from the poet but too much time has passed between when Ruth dropped the mail off and when they were finally able to get it open so technically someone else could have mailed those letters like they don't know for fact those are the letters she put in yeah so basically nine days later they get another opportunity once more ed drives their car up to the same mailbox ruth leans out the passenger side to drop the mail in but this time an undercover cop pulls up right after them blocks the mailbox pretending to have car trouble so no one else can use this mailbox until they get the postal inspector down there to open it up, right?

[970] So this time they're mixed in with the Finley's regular mail is another letter from the poet.

[971] Once this is confirmed, they reseal the envelope and they let the mail carrier deliver that letter to the Finley's home.

[972] Oh, sneaky, sneaky.

[973] So the next day, which is Sunday, September 27th, Ed brings the poet letter to the police, as he does with all of the poet letters they receive.

[974] But then the police launch a search for more of the Finley's mail everywhere.

[975] Businesses they sent payments to, you know, like mail at her work, and they basically inspect all the envelopes and they're able to match the edges of the stamps because stamps used to get pulled out of books of stamps.

[976] And you would tear, there would be perforated little holes where you pull the stamps apart.

[977] They match the tear, the tearaways.

[978] And they see that all of these stamps are from the.

[979] same book.

[980] They can they can put them all back in.

[981] So police gain permission to search Ruth's office at work and there they find a book of poetry, paper with the poet's handwriting on it and a red bandana concealed in a tissue in Ruth's desk.

[982] All of the this is enough to warrant a search of the Finley's house.

[983] So on September 28th, while the Finley's are away, they search the house.

[984] but they actually find no hard evidence inside the house.

[985] Come on.

[986] But then two days later on Wednesday, September 30th, Chief LaMunion and his wife Sharon get another letter from the poet.

[987] And at the bottom of the page, the page is torn off.

[988] So through microscopic fracture analysis, they are able to determine that the torn off piece from Ruth's trash can at work matches the piece at the bottom of the letter that Le Munion received.

[989] Yeah, got.

[990] Yeah, I got it.

[991] This solidifies the case.

[992] So the next day on October 1st, 1981, the police ask Ed to come into the station to pick up the latest batch of poet letters, which is what usually happens.

[993] But when he gets there, Captain Hill and Detective Jack Leon take Ed into an interrogation room and they start asking him questions.

[994] Now, Ed's confused, but he cooperates.

[995] that basically the officer spent two hours asking Ed about his life, his upbringing, all the way up until the beginning of the harassment in 1977, and to get the idea of basically, is Ed complicit in his wife's plan?

[996] Is he?

[997] Oh, my God.

[998] Finally, Captain Hill tells Ed that he knows who the poet is.

[999] And Ed says, well, I hope the hell you do, let's go get him.

[1000] But then Hill shows Ed pictures of his wife dropping letters in the mailbox at the market.

[1001] mall and explains that they can confirm that Ruth is in fact the letter writer.

[1002] Ed is in utter shock.

[1003] Hill asks if he'll agree to a polygraph test so he can be eliminated as a suspect.

[1004] Ed agrees.

[1005] He passes the test.

[1006] He was never involved.

[1007] It was all Ruth by herself.

[1008] Eddie, I got bad news for you.

[1009] I know.

[1010] So at five o 'clock that same afternoon, Hill calls Ruth and has her come down to the station to look at mugshots to see if she can identify the poet, which is a call.

[1011] common practice for her at this point.

[1012] She agrees.

[1013] Hill walks her through the same interrogation procedure that he walked Ed through, and he finally asks Ruth if she wrote any of the poet's letters.

[1014] She says no, but when he shows her the surveillance photos of herself mailing the letters and says that he can prove she did, she finally admits.

[1015] She says she has a vague memory of sitting in her basement writing letters, but when she thinks back, she can't tell what's a dream and what's reality.

[1016] Oh dear.

[1017] I was hoping you were going to say they'd show her a mugshot lineup and hers was in it and that's how she knows.

[1018] And she was like, there he is right there.

[1019] Oh, no. Yeah, basically he then asks, he switches his tone and gets mean and asks her if the attack went from when she was 16 years old if that even really happened.

[1020] She swears it did.

[1021] But she gets, starts to get really upset.

[1022] He switches back to a gentle tone and basically says, quote, Ruthie, why?

[1023] It's time.

[1024] It's time to tell me why.

[1025] I'm not mad at you, Ruth.

[1026] I want to know why you're doing this.

[1027] So after some prouting, Ruth eventually admits to everything.

[1028] The letters, the calls, the odd objects left at her house, even her own stabbing.

[1029] But she says it wasn't a deliberate plan as much as it was kind of this fuzzy memory that she can barely recall.

[1030] Basically, it's a she's really ashamed and she's almost she's confused but she's really ashamed and when when hill says to her there's no hard feelings between you and me ruth says quote there should be i wish i was dead oh my god so she confirms that ed was not involved at all but she makes it clear she needs medical help she says she thinks she's crazy and then she says quote i tried to figure out what was wrong but i couldn't stop it so that night she's taken to the psychiatric ward of St. Joseph's Hospital for treatment.

[1031] After much debate, the Wichita police make the controversial decision not to press charges against Ruth, citing that she was suffering from severe mental distress and had no malicious intent.

[1032] She did, however, cost the department almost $400 ,000 for all their investigative efforts over the past four years.

[1033] And Chief La Manion does not agree with this decision not to press charges.

[1034] he considers her a dangerous criminal.

[1035] Basically, Ruth goes into therapy with a Dr. Andrew Pickens.

[1036] And this goes on for the next seven years.

[1037] And she's finally able to uncover the source of her issues, which takes her a while to get to and then takes her years to process afterwards.

[1038] But what's interesting and kind of fascinating about it is she does it using the same technique that the poet does, she begins writing poetry about it.

[1039] And she finally unwinds like all of those things that she was writing in the poet's poems.

[1040] They all kind of pulled into her reality.

[1041] And what she she basically had faced a long -buried childhood trauma of sexual abuse by a neighbor when she was only four years old.

[1042] And it was a man who had used red bandanas to tie her up so oh my god so like there was actual symbolism in her wow so she basically says that when that happened to her and it went on for a couple months that she would remember quote unquote floating off to heaven which is a common it which is a common dissociative tactic that the brain uses in times of severe trauma yeah so it's a defense tactic her her doctors theorize that allowed her to develop this kind of separate identity as the poet.

[1043] And then in 1977, when Ed has his heart attack and she is alone for the first time in her life while the BTK is like gone basically killing people around town and no one knows who he is.

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] Basically her brain switches back into this dissociative mode and the stress, she basically, it's like this cry for help.

[1046] wait so did the teenage attack happen yeah okay so that probably that's like yeah as far as we know as far as we know and yeah and basically it seems like the the police in that town believe I feel like that attack alone as a teenager would have triggered that reaction from BTK to because that's a similar thing he was breaking into women's houses and murder telling him up murder it's like either of those could have all of it yes it's all it's all horrible parallels to her life and if she was repressing it and then that attack you know she was kind of able to come back and then she has this marriage that's really um solid for her and you know it's this really strong great marriage relationship family she builds for 30 years everything is like going great yeah and then this thing happens that's like shock after shock, you know.

[1047] So the only person who doesn't believe this theory is Chief La Mignon, who would later say, quote, I think she's lying.

[1048] She knew everything she was doing, unquote.

[1049] Wow.

[1050] But no one in Ruth's family or friendship circle believes that at all.

[1051] In fact, Ed stands by her.

[1052] Their marriage lasts through this horrible experience.

[1053] and she was quoted as saying it's been hard on Ed but he's the kindest person I know and he's been very supportive but also her friends and neighbors rallied by her side her neighbor Emma Dillinger is quoted in that People magazine article saying Ruth told me her story and gave me the option of cutting off our friendship but all I wanted to do was comfort her oh my God and all of Ruth's love loved ones like basically had that same reaction and after five years in treatment she feels strong enough to talk about her story on a local um like news station and after she basically tells her side of the story there's they start getting the station starts getting calls and 98 % of them were compassionate and loving and completely supportive for like an overwhelming majority we're just like this is unbelievable.

[1054] So it turns out that the poet of Wichita was not a violent madman, but a woman who didn't even know herself how much she needed to be heard.

[1055] On May 30th, 2019, Ruth Finley passed away at the age of 89.

[1056] And that is the fascinating story of Ruth Finley, also known as the poet of Wichita.

[1057] What the fuck?

[1058] What the fuck?

[1059] Give the credit to the person who suggested it to you again because brilliant.

[1060] Sweetly sarcastic read that article by Corey Mead first on Medium .com and sent it along to me. I mean, I also think that part of me hesitated and I think I felt like I may have begun to read this story one time when we were on the road.

[1061] But I hate the idea of talking about going this far into.

[1062] to a story where a female victim is lying because it doesn't happen that often.

[1063] Yeah.

[1064] And that kind of thing of like these false reports, it's, it's, it's, I think it's one of the reasons that it's not a very well -known story.

[1065] That makes sense.

[1066] It's because it's, this is, it's as crazy as a serial killer.

[1067] It's as unlikely.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] It's as, you know, it's very common for women to be stocked.

[1070] It's very common for women to be raped.

[1071] It's very common for women to be attacked and abused.

[1072] So this is a true anomaly that then kind of grew into a whole other crazy.

[1073] I mean, Wichita, it almost, it's, I don't know, it's fascinating.

[1074] There's so many layers.

[1075] There's so many layers to it.

[1076] That's a really good point, but that doesn't mean a story shouldn't be told.

[1077] and we tell a huge amount of different types of stories on this podcast.

[1078] And this is one of those examples, but it's not, it's not a rule.

[1079] So I think it deserves a place in this podcast.

[1080] And that was an incredible job telling the story.

[1081] The medium writer did an incredible job.

[1082] So.

[1083] Yeah, it happened.

[1084] It happened.

[1085] Here's the thing.

[1086] It happened and it didn't end in a pitchforks and torches mob.

[1087] You know what I mean?

[1088] It ended with people going, why would someone do this?

[1089] This is baffling.

[1090] Yeah.

[1091] Because there weren't, she was the only victim and Ed.

[1092] Yeah.

[1093] And then the wasted time.

[1094] But it's like, what was she doing?

[1095] It doesn't make sense.

[1096] It doesn't add up.

[1097] And then it's like, but everybody has their reasons.

[1098] And, you know, fucking crazy.

[1099] Great job.

[1100] Thank you.

[1101] Yeah, I know.

[1102] It's crazy.

[1103] All right.

[1104] I had an epiphany this week that although it feels like this story is part of the folklore that is my favorite murder, it's a tale as old as time in our lives.

[1105] We actually don't know the full story of the cocaine bear.

[1106] Oh, we don't.

[1107] We know a snippet from a minisode.

[1108] Minisode 101.

[1109] Thank you, Stephen.

[1110] But who, why, what, where?

[1111] Let's find out today.

[1112] I thought you did this story.

[1113] I asked Stephen, did I do it when we were in Kentucky?

[1114] Have we been to murders?

[1115] Have we been to Kentucky?

[1116] Yeah, we have, but it wasn't.

[1117] I thought, okay.

[1118] Well, great.

[1119] I thought so, too, when I was halfway through, and that's why I text Stephen, and he said, no. So not, don't tell me, I don't care.

[1120] Doing it today.

[1121] Yeah.

[1122] If you figure out otherwise, you can go ahead and let Stephen know.

[1123] at personal stephen email at earthlink .gov. All right.

[1124] So I got info from a Rolling Stone article by E .J. Dixon, a slate article by Matthew Desham, the Kentucky for Kentucky website by Coleman Larkin, and the IFL science article by James Felton.

[1125] So here we go, Karen.

[1126] I'm going to tell you the tale.

[1127] I want to know the truth about the cocaine bear before I see the movie.

[1128] It's truth.

[1129] It's legend.

[1130] It's truly a legend.

[1131] Okay.

[1132] On the morning of September 11th, 1985, Mr. Fred M. Myers of Knoxville, Tennessee, woke up, walked out of his home on Island Home Pike in South Knoxville and found a dead man in his backyard.

[1133] Yep.

[1134] So Mr. Myers recalled hearing a crash around midnight night the night before.

[1135] And it turned out the crash he had heard had been that of the dead man falling from the sky and landing in his backyard.

[1136] Oh, my God.

[1137] That's horrible.

[1138] It is a horrible start.

[1139] So the body of the man was dressed in khaki and it was sprawled out on his back over an unopened a parachute.

[1140] There was no obvious injuries aside from a trickle of dried blood from each of his nostrils.

[1141] But other than that, he looked fine.

[1142] Authorities arrived and found that the dead men was wearing a bulletproof vest and night vision goggles and was carrying two different pistols, ammunition, a stiletto knife, freeze dried food, and six cougarans, which are gold coins.

[1143] Yes, I love cougarant.

[1144] That's my favorite reference.

[1145] $4 ,500 cash, IDs and multiple names, a membership card to the Miami Jockey Club, and several inspirational effigrams.

[1146] which I know you love epigrams epigrams yeah like you mean like keep sore high like a mighty bird that's right keep on trucking those kinds are those epigrams i don't know i don't either let me read you one that's definitely an epigram because this is one of the ones he had on him wait a second is an epigram the same thing forward and backwards because then mine wouldn't work no fly high like a mighty eagle won't work right let me spell that backwards and try it no you're right okay this is one this one read there is only one tactical principle not subject to change it is to inflict the maximum amount of wounds death and destruction on the enemy and the minimum amount of time it sounds like a chuck norris type of like thing that they like that they live by you know like a here's where i live by it sounds like it sounds like the kind of shirt that you'd be right up against in line at 7 -11 and then once you read that epigram or whatever the fuck you're claiming it to be then you back way up and you're just like that you're just like, uh -oh, I didn't realize you're here to do the most damage in the shortest amount of time.

[1147] And you're like, hey, mister, can I touch your nunchucks?

[1148] Hey.

[1149] Are those non -checks in your pocket?

[1150] That's right.

[1151] So, he had that on him, poetry.

[1152] And he had a duffel bag with about 75 pounds of cocaine that was 95 % pure.

[1153] And I wanted to like, I wanted to like in my head picture 75 pounds of cocaine, which is hard to do with powder, right?

[1154] So then I looked up like how many pounds of chocolate bars would that be?

[1155] But then I thought, okay, well, how much, what kid weighs 75 pounds?

[1156] And so I looked it up and an average 10 -year -old female weighs 75 pounds.

[1157] So that's how much cocaine.

[1158] If you held an average 10 -year -old female in one hand and cocaine in the other that weighed the same.

[1159] You could also do it basically if you're doing five -pound bags of sugar.

[1160] Oh.

[1161] But cocaine.

[1162] there would be about 14 bags of sugar.

[1163] Oh, that's a lot.

[1164] No wonder his parachute didn't open.

[1165] And if it's 95 % pure, you can get some baby laxative and cut it in there.

[1166] And then you can have like, then you have like 35 pounds of cocaine.

[1167] And you just get all the kids at the junior college to buy it.

[1168] And you're in Cabo, baby.

[1169] 90s Karen just snuck up on this podcast and was like, hey, I have an idea.

[1170] Hey, man. Look, man. Be cool.

[1171] All right.

[1172] So police came and we're like, what is this scene?

[1173] It was like baffling to everyone, of course.

[1174] Narcotics agents came.

[1175] DEA customs were very baffled by this innocent looking backyard scene.

[1176] I guess it wasn't innocent looking.

[1177] Not innocent with the Kruger Rans.

[1178] I'm telling you, anytime Kruger Rans are involved, this is an international issue that we have.

[1179] Or it's a spy movie starring Brad Pitt.

[1180] either way.

[1181] You're fucked.

[1182] So police by afternoon are able to identify the body and even then they still had few theories as to what the hell happened.

[1183] But they do identify him as Andrew Carter Thornton, the second of Kentucky.

[1184] So let me tell you about Andrew Carter Thornton, the second.

[1185] As you can tell by his name, yes, he came from a wealthy family.

[1186] He's royalty.

[1187] That's right.

[1188] So he's born on October 30th.

[1189] 1944 to Carter and Peggy Thornton in southern Bourbon County, Kentucky.

[1190] Carter and Peggy had a grand old time being wealthy and breeding horses at their stud farm.

[1191] Lucky.

[1192] So Andrew grew up living a privileged life in Lexington, Kentucky.

[1193] He attended prestigious private schools along with other Lexington Blue Bloods.

[1194] He went to the Military Academy, Sawani Military Academy.

[1195] And then, join the army as a paratrooper.

[1196] Then he became an Air Force officer.

[1197] He earns a Purple Heart.

[1198] You know, he's on his way up.

[1199] And next in his illustrious career, he becomes a police officer in the Lexington, Kentucky Police Force, Narcotics Division.

[1200] So here he is.

[1201] But then in 1977, he resigns because he now wants to practice law.

[1202] So he goes to the University of Kentucky Law School.

[1203] And apparently the law applied to everyone but himself.

[1204] Because as a 1980 federal indictment alleges, he was part of a drug and weapon smuggling ring called the company.

[1205] Oh.

[1206] Yeah.

[1207] And it also reportedly involved other former Kentucky police officers as well.

[1208] So maybe he went to law school to be like, I'm going to keep this business going and like not for good reasons.

[1209] So in 1981, he's arrested along with 25 other men.

[1210] They were attempting to steal guns from a naval base in Fresno, California.

[1211] risky, and for attempting to traffic 1 ,000 pounds of marijuana into the county.

[1212] Into San Diego?

[1213] Fresno.

[1214] Oh, yeah.

[1215] I thought drugs lived in Fresno.

[1216] Why do they have to smuggle them in?

[1217] Yeah, especially from like Kentucky.

[1218] No one in Cali wants that K -Y weed.

[1219] No thanks.

[1220] Keep it for yourselves on your stud horses.

[1221] We're good over here.

[1222] So DEA agent Robert Brightwell, who says he worked with Thornton on narcotics investigations in the early 70s, described him as a, quote, an 007 paramilitary type personality, an adventurer driven by adrenaline rushes, who became bored with being a cop.

[1223] So we got this guy who thinks he's James Bond or Chuck Norris, it seems like a cross between the two.

[1224] And he's bored with even being a narcotics cop, which sounds pretty entertaining and fun, if you ask me. And stressful.

[1225] And stressful.

[1226] Like what more do you need?

[1227] And legal.

[1228] So not enough for some people.

[1229] Never enough.

[1230] Never.

[1231] Initially, Andrew was given two felony charges of conspiracy to import and distribute a controlled substance to which he pled not guilty.

[1232] But he fled the state.

[1233] And then it was found heavily armed in North Carolina and brought back to California.

[1234] to face reduced misdemeanor drug charges.

[1235] So he got his charges super duper reduced.

[1236] Let's go back and talk about how he was wealthy.

[1237] That's how it probably happened.

[1238] And hoit.

[1239] Hoity tooyt.

[1240] He pleaded no contest to the charges, was sentenced to six months in prison and find $500.

[1241] And he also had his law license revoked.

[1242] So Karen, this last brush with the law was all it took for Andrew to see the error of his ways, straighten up.

[1243] find Jesus and not cause the death of a black bear, right?

[1244] Lies.

[1245] No. Turns out, no. Find Jesus is how I knew.

[1246] So a woman named Betty Zarring was his former wife and she said about him, quote, he was a he was a son of a bitch.

[1247] And then she shot two pistols in there.

[1248] This son of a bitch had shitty Kentucky weed.

[1249] Always trying to give me that weed.

[1250] no she said he was a philosophical incredibly disciplined extremely spiritual and loyal warrior with his own code of ethics who thrived on excitement and then she lit a candle on his on her under his headshot okay yeah she was into that guy yeah i think she still liked him she she likes that guy i think so did your dog just belch no she growled at me because uh i just realized I didn't feed her dinner, but I did give her two cheese sticks.

[1251] Does she, you want to go feed her dinner?

[1252] No, no, no. She can make it.

[1253] It sounded like that song, bow, bow, bow, boo, that, oh.

[1254] Yeah, she went, wow, wow, you have to just give me a half an hour.

[1255] You got it.

[1256] Okay.

[1257] On September 9th, 1985, Andrew is now 40.

[1258] He enlists the help of his, don't be, don't be too surprised by this, karate instructor turned bodyguard.

[1259] a man named Bill Leonard.

[1260] So the pair, along with a third man, who was a Colombian man that Bill had apparently never met, they get on a Cessna 404 airplane.

[1261] So Bill alleges that he just got on the plane, he didn't know what they were doing.

[1262] But while en route, according to Bill in a 1990 interview with former Knoxville News Sentinel Managing editor, Tom Chester, Leonard said that while he knew of Andrew's shady drug -fueled you know, past and reputation, he had not known that this flight was to involve drugs.

[1263] He didn't know, wasn't me officer, and insisted that Andrew had sprung the plot on him mid -flight as the plane flew over the Bahamas.

[1264] It was raining and dark.

[1265] And I guess he hadn't asked, hey, who's this Colombian stranger on board with us too?

[1266] He hadn't asked that when they were getting on the plane.

[1267] No, yeah.

[1268] He was like, whatever.

[1269] Yeah, just a bunch of strangers on a Cessna.

[1270] It'll be fine.

[1271] I'm sure nothing will happen.

[1272] Andrew, no. Andrew told Leonard the plan that they would pick up 400 kilograms of cocaine in Colombia and smuggle it into the U .S. Although I can see the logic of being like, don't fucking tell Andrew on the tarmac.

[1273] We have to be in the air.

[1274] He's going to have one of his classic freakouts.

[1275] He'll just do it.

[1276] He always goes along with any plan.

[1277] Andrew is the, Andrew is the, what's his name?

[1278] Andrew's the main guy.

[1279] Bill is the foil.

[1280] Whatever.

[1281] It doesn't matter.

[1282] Who's got the cougarans?

[1283] Andrew.

[1284] Andrew's got the cuckarad.

[1285] Bill is karate.

[1286] Bill is the karate.

[1287] This whole thing sounds like Danny McBride and James Franco got stone together and wrote this up.

[1288] This doesn't seem real.

[1289] Does it now not surprise you that Elizabeth Banks is part of it?

[1290] Everyone's like, how are they going to make this music?

[1291] I think you just cast it essentially.

[1292] Yeah, there it is.

[1293] Okay.

[1294] Bill said, if he had told me, hey, Bill, we're going to Columbia to smuggle 400 kilos of cocaine to America.

[1295] I would have gone, yeah, right.

[1296] That would have been the end of it right there.

[1297] He tricked me. There is no way in hell.

[1298] I mean, anybody that knows me in Lexington knows there's no way I would do anything like this.

[1299] I was a nobody.

[1300] And then he winked at the reporter, nudge, nudge, gave him a bag of cocaine and walked away.

[1301] tightened up his brown belt And karate chapsed him to the face And then stole the bag of cocaine And ran in the opposite direction To his dojo And all was well Then he said about Andrew When he told him about this plan He said the look on his face was hard to explain He was smiling But he had a very intense look in his eyes And he was watching me very closely In my heart Cocaine In my heart I would love of Bill actually was just a spoil who had no clue about it at all.

[1302] It was just like this local Lexington dude that he really liked.

[1303] He just thought Andrew was the coolest.

[1304] And I was like, come along, even though he knew Bill would fuck it up somehow.

[1305] And he did.

[1306] Yeah.

[1307] Okay.

[1308] But Bill hating to be someone who cancels plans, apparently, they move on with their mission and picked up the freight that was in Columbia and were somewhere over Florida when Bill claimed that they heard federal agents talking over the radio about following their plane.

[1309] Breaker, breaker.

[1310] So Bill, who had been, picture this, Bill had been vomiting over an open door out in the plane because that's how inexperienced he was on planes.

[1311] Poor Bill.

[1312] He had like a Hawaiian shirt on because he thought they were going to the Bihamahamas and now it's just flatter with barf.

[1313] No, but you still can't tell.

[1314] That's the Tommy Bahama promise.

[1315] You can puke on yourself and no one will know.

[1316] Oh, my God.

[1317] So he hears this.

[1318] He freaks out.

[1319] he stops vomiting and he opened a door and kicked three bags of cocaine out.

[1320] No, what?

[1321] Let's get rid of this cocaine then.

[1322] We're being followed.

[1323] Andrew, of course, being a businessman, freaks out and is like, he hates a party foul.

[1324] So he was like, what the fuck are you doing?

[1325] And the two of them start to argue.

[1326] Okay.

[1327] Bill says, quote, right at that time when it looks like we're going to rip each other's throats out, he just starts laughing.

[1328] I don't know what happened.

[1329] I started laughing.

[1330] The next thing I know, we're both rolling around in the podcast.

[1331] plane laughing.

[1332] That's probably the safety hazard, right?

[1333] tears coming out of our eyes.

[1334] He turned around and said, I'm really sorry for getting you involved in this.

[1335] I can see this is not your thing.

[1336] You're a family man. Just do what I tell you and I'll get you out.

[1337] That's a quote.

[1338] I didn't just fucking make that up.

[1339] This is, I'm sorry, but this is also, if you've ever seen the fucking Peter Falk movie and Ellen Markin movie The Inlaws, this is the very similar plot to the inlaws.

[1340] This is like, we thought the cocaine bear aspect of this story was the best part of the story.

[1341] So we never bothered looking it up.

[1342] I completely in my mind connected it to a totally different story you did the full version of.

[1343] Yeah.

[1344] And just in my mind was like, oh, yeah, that must be connected to that thing.

[1345] I know.

[1346] How did we not know a story when they ended with a bear dying on cocaine was going to be even better?

[1347] I think it got, it was like surmised perfectly in that email, the original email where there were just like, this thing happened, but what's important is this.

[1348] So, you know, we're going to boil it down.

[1349] I meant to give credit to the first person, the person who was hometown, we read because they, like, really brought it into our lives and deserve full credit.

[1350] But I forgot to do that.

[1351] And I'm sure it's impossible to find it at this point.

[1352] It's impossible.

[1353] All right.

[1354] I have it.

[1355] It's even impossible.

[1356] That's your name.

[1357] It's perfect setup.

[1358] It's from Sam.

[1359] So there's no other details, but it's just Sam.

[1360] Sam and Lexington I know you were screaming your name out there and we heard it so thank you Sam Well because it was about my mother's ex -boy The Cocaine Cowboy So I think she dated one of the people Wow okay Can you look at Andrew probably?

[1361] Andrew or Bill?

[1362] I'll look up the original email yeah Okay what if she dated Bill?

[1363] Bill's not the cocaine cowboy He threw three huge bags out He's cowboy adjacent Here's the thing He is a cowboy entrapment A and B If there's a plane following you, don't throw anything out of your plane.

[1364] They can see you.

[1365] They are going to go after it.

[1366] Essentially, is he, yes or no, a cowboy caricature?

[1367] Andrew's the real thing.

[1368] He's got a little tiny horse.

[1369] He's got a tiny hat.

[1370] Tiny horse.

[1371] And a tiny horse.

[1372] Big head.

[1373] Tiny hat, big bat.

[1374] Cougar.

[1375] Yes.

[1376] So Sam's mother dated Andrew Carter Thornton the second.

[1377] Holy shit, Sam.

[1378] Is he her dad secret?

[1379] it like your secret?

[1380] If only we knew.

[1381] That's it.

[1382] Okay.

[1383] Sam, how big is your head?

[1384] How small is your hat?

[1385] Sam.

[1386] All right.

[1387] So Andrew tells Bill to cut loose three dothel bags of cocaine from their parachute and dump them from the plane.

[1388] Okay.

[1389] Okay.

[1390] So then Thornton's like, I'm going to help you out, man. I'm going to get you out of this.

[1391] I'm sorry.

[1392] I even got you into it.

[1393] You're not really good at this anyways.

[1394] So he gives, he gives Bill a four minute.

[1395] lesson in skydiving.

[1396] He essentially is like, here's how you do this, here's how you do this, put this on, quit that.

[1397] And he, can I just really quickly with great rage say, that's not fucking cool.

[1398] As someone, as someone who is taught to snorkel by being in a bay in Hawaii with my stuff on and my ex being like, no, no, you have to like suction it to your face and just being like, you don't mention any of this at any time before, like you don't, you're now waiting until I'm treading in 30 foot water before you start to tell me the things I need to know.

[1399] You're already scared because you're in the shark tank, essentially.

[1400] I hate, here's the thing.

[1401] I really resent people who are bad teachers because if they already know it, then in their mind you know it too.

[1402] I can't take it.

[1403] Like they don't even understand that you won't understand the words that are connected to it that are like, you know, part I get what you mean.

[1404] Fuck everyone.

[1405] Yeah.

[1406] It's like it.

[1407] Bill, who didn't want to be involved in a drug trafficking situation in the first place now has to learn how to fucking skydive under pressure.

[1408] He's like, first of all, what is a cougarant?

[1409] First of all, what is an epigram?

[1410] Let's start at the very beginning.

[1411] Is it a poster?

[1412] Is it just, is it on a hat at the truck stop?

[1413] Oh, we got to get.

[1414] We've got to get an old school, like, inspirational photo of a skydiver and get that quote.

[1415] A murderina is already making it as we're talking.

[1416] Get that terrible epithet and put it over epigram.

[1417] Epigram.

[1418] Whatever you want.

[1419] All right.

[1420] Is it like a hologram, but just two -sided?

[1421] Get a hologram.

[1422] Get a hologram.

[1423] Let Bill tell the story himself.

[1424] A hologram of Bill at the next my favorite murder live show.

[1425] We got Bill on stage.

[1426] Okay.

[1427] And then Robert Kardashian to close.

[1428] okay so basically Andrew ties the remaining duffel bag of cocaine to his body with a nylon bag containing his whole kit that he later found dead with spoiler alert so they so they prepare to jump as the plane on autopilot now flies over Knoxville so poor Bill jumps first he landed and the word hard is always in there he lands hard near Knoxville downtown island home airport, about three miles from downtown.

[1429] Thornton had told him to walk to a grocery store, call a cab, and then gave him the address where he was going to meet Thornton's girlfriend at the Hyatt Hotel.

[1430] I wonder if it's Sam's fucking mom.

[1431] Yeah.

[1432] So they go to the Hyatt Hotel with his girlfriend to wait for Andrew to show up, but he never shows up.

[1433] So let's go back to the morning where the guy finds the dead.

[1434] body in his backyard that is identified as Andrew.

[1435] In Andrew's pocket is a key and they were able to match the key, the tail number on the key to the wreckage of a plane, which had crashed into a mountain in Clay County, Carolina.

[1436] They had found it on autopilot and it had landed about 60 miles away from where they jumped.

[1437] That's dangerous.

[1438] So dangerous.

[1439] Just to let the plane go off by itself.

[1440] Totally irresponsible, especially if they're over in Knoxville.

[1441] that's like human humans live there so when the cops where the investigators had found Andrew's body of course they found all that cocaine on him and they were like there's got to be more cocaine that would then like in the plane and they searched the surrounding areas and found 220 pounds of marijuana of cocaine hanging from a parachute in a tree in fanon county Georgia they found maps clothes food and all that stuff a couple days later more duffel bags of cocaine were found months later in northern Georgia.

[1442] So cocaine everywhere.

[1443] It's a fucking...

[1444] Everywhere.

[1445] It's like a confetti cocaine plane.

[1446] Cocaine Easter egg hunt.

[1447] But all through the mountains.

[1448] So they were found months later, but before that, a black bear stumbled upon the cocaine.

[1449] Enter our friend cocaine bear.

[1450] Spotlight Hat cane.

[1451] Okay, now it's the solo.

[1452] Hello my baby.

[1453] Lights go down, spotlight on, cocaine bear.

[1454] I'm just a little cocaine bear.

[1455] Wandering around the forest, not high or wired.

[1456] What will my day bring?

[1457] What's this?

[1458] What's this?

[1459] A pile of powdered sugar.

[1460] No. Well, a local hunter who sadly has never been identified.

[1461] because a hero had found the dead bear and told his friends about it, but none of them reported it to authorities because they're hunters in Georgia and they don't, I think, mingle with authorities.

[1462] They're like, mind your business.

[1463] Exactly.

[1464] So it took three weeks for the story to finally trickle down to a game and fish agent who then told the agents at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation, and they discovered the bear's body on December 20th.

[1465] so that bearer you know as much as it's lived in our hearts and minds it essentially snorted up a bunch of coke and died kind of on the spot sounds like just immediately OD it's so no listen let's keep it our hearts and minds and in Nick Terry's incredible animation that he did of this that's fucking classic one of everyone's favorites that they had a grand old time it was so much fun all the all the woodland creatures came together and got wired.

[1466] That's right.

[1467] A medical examiner conducted an autopsy on the bear and found every telltale sign of a massive overdose.

[1468] Let's all sing it together.

[1469] Cerebral hemorrhaging, respiratory failure, hypothermia, renal failure, stroke and heart failure.

[1470] Oh, no. Yeah, like it died, died.

[1471] And then I wrote, it's unclear if the detailed plans to open a restaurant card called Bear Essentials were ever located.

[1472] because, of course, I did.

[1473] Because you had to.

[1474] Because I had to get it in there.

[1475] George Quiet.

[1476] George is.

[1477] Tonight, the part of the bear is being played by George Kilgariff.

[1478] By George, who hasn't eaten yet.

[1479] Hey.

[1480] Say it.

[1481] I get that.

[1482] All right.

[1483] So, but that medical examiner was so impressed with the bear and its state.

[1484] And that despite everything, the bear's body was actually in good shape.

[1485] So he was like, you know, it'd be a pity just to throw this in the cremator and calls up a buddy, a hunting buddy, who was a taxidermist, taxidermist.

[1486] And so the bear's taxidermized.

[1487] That's a word.

[1488] And put on display at the Chattahoochee River National Recreation Area in Georgia.

[1489] But it doesn't have like a plaque saying what it is.

[1490] It's just like a fucking taxidermied bear.

[1491] So it doesn't get its full glory just yet.

[1492] Um, but so there's an approaching wildfire and that forces the employees of that place to load up some of their artifacts into a storage unit.

[1493] Someone breaks into the storage unit, steals a bunch of artifacts and cocaine bear.

[1494] Twisting fucking turns, man. So sorry, a forest fire is coming.

[1495] And they're like, grab the important stuff.

[1496] Dan, you, Jerry, Rick and TJ.

[1497] grab that fucking gigantic taxidermy bear that died five ways and Chris is like oh well I'll go get the arrowheads and like I'll get the the precious precious hero heads I'll get the precious feathers in the arrowheads while you guys lug the fucking cocaine bear the fully taxidermied and stuffed with sawdust yeah hurry up guys okay then some creeper So some college students find out that the cocaine bears at the storage unit at the Georgia storage unit on I -5 where I -5 meets The 210.

[1498] That's Glendale.

[1499] Okay.

[1500] Nearly three -decker Okay, so it's stolen.

[1501] Goodbye.

[1502] Gone forever, so we think.

[1503] No. Almost 30 years later, after the bear's death, the eccentric they're described as an eccentric retailer kentucky for kentucky which you can go online and find their website they seem like a lot of real fun people because they do some digging and investigating they contact local pawn shops where the storage unit had been and are like hey do you remember 30 some odd years ago getting a bear a taxerome made bear when the shop owner's like yeah that came in at the same time that some like some like uh feathers and arrowheads had came in and we found out they were stolen so we returned those but the bear was never claimed so we sold it Kentucky for Kentucky were like well where did that bear go and they're like let us look up our records they find the records and it turns out that the bear had somehow through some changes fallen into hands of country legend whalen Jennings What the fuck?

[1504] No. Waylon Jennings.

[1505] Here on this fucking line, we have Whalen fucking Jennings.

[1506] Looking back to Xxas.

[1507] Waylon and Whalen and the boy.

[1508] There you go.

[1509] So it turns out that Waylon Jennings has a huge private collection of preserved animals.

[1510] He's like a big animal head head.

[1511] He's a big dead animal head head.

[1512] Exactly.

[1513] So he actually, Waylon Jennings, Kentucky for Kentucky found out, has.

[1514] relationships with pawn shop owners throughout the south to let him know whenever they get like a really good taxidermeter preserved bear and me too so they had contacted him and it had gone with whalen Jennings to Nevada to live with Whalen Jennings in Las Vegas yeah this bear this bear is living now more than ever this bear has had a more exciting life than any of us oh shit um except for Karen in the 90s.

[1515] Okay.

[1516] That's true.

[1517] 90s Karen can compete with cocaine bear.

[1518] Absolutely.

[1519] So they trace it further in its illustrious journey and they find that its current owner in its current resting place was at a traditional Chinese medicine shop in Reno and it's owned by the now deceased man named Zhu Tsang and it had been used there as decoration.

[1520] So Kentucky for Kentucky contacts this man's widow, Mr. Tang's widow.

[1521] And she tells them that her husband, quote, was always ringing home junk from auctions and estate sales and things like that.

[1522] The bear was one of his favorite things.

[1523] He just loved it for some reason.

[1524] At first he had great fucking taste.

[1525] At first, he wanted to keep it in our living room, but I wouldn't have it.

[1526] It scared me. I made him take it to the store.

[1527] You knew there was going to be an irritated wife somewhere along the line, whether it was Mrs. Jennings or Mrs. Tang here where it's somebody going, are you fucking kidding me?

[1528] You're not keeping that near the children.

[1529] No full -sized bears in the TV room.

[1530] I come home from an estate set out with a pair of matching vintage lamps.

[1531] Mr. Tang comes home with a fucking full -size with cocaine bear.

[1532] The full -on cocaine bear.

[1533] White powder underneath its nose.

[1534] So Kentucky for Kentucky in their fucking infinite glory tells her the whole story.

[1535] and she's like they said she almost didn't believe us but she said that if you've gone to that much trouble we could just have quote the damn thing just to get it out of her sight do you know what they do you know what she charged them shipping shipping hand handling for real she didn't charge him a penny she said get it out of my fucking site it was $200 to ship it home to Kentucky and they fucking did it no sorry can I just ask a clarifying question Kentucky for Kentucky is like a like a basically a cool store.

[1536] They have a mall now.

[1537] Let me see.

[1538] Hold on.

[1539] Let me look up.

[1540] Steven.

[1541] Hold on.

[1542] Is like a artist collective type of thing?

[1543] It's a great question.

[1544] Let's find out.

[1545] I just want details on these like obviously cool, fun people.

[1546] Because they're clearly our own best friends.

[1547] Like preservation society or something.

[1548] Oh, yeah.

[1549] Oh, that makes sense.

[1550] So there's, we're talking, there's a lot of like calf tattoos.

[1551] We're talking about a lot of.

[1552] interesting glasses I'm seeing their website is KY for KY oh and they have the fun mall okay you know there's a there's a commercial online it looks like just like a like a cool shop of like Kentucky gear it says a kick -ass commonwealth since 19 oh a kick -ass commonwealth since 1792 that's about the actual state of Kentucky they're talking about got it oh Got it.

[1553] Okay.

[1554] Yeah, they look like a wacky bunch.

[1555] I'm looking at their about sight.

[1556] There's a lot of, there's a Kentucky fried chicken bucket hat.

[1557] Let's see.

[1558] Did you see the shirt?

[1559] It looks like a like a Yale sweatshirt, but it says y 'all.

[1560] Oh, that's amazing.

[1561] Okay.

[1562] I want one of those real bad.

[1563] Here's their mission.

[1564] Our mission is to engage and inform the world by promoting Kentucky people, places, and products and to kick ass for the Commonwealth.

[1565] All right.

[1566] Nice.

[1567] I love them.

[1568] Okay.

[1569] So they'll be invited to our next show.

[1570] and invited to give me a Kentucky fried chicken hat, please.

[1571] KY for KY presents the never -ending pandemic warehouse sale.

[1572] They also have a commercial for their fun mall that, like, is super kitschy and funny.

[1573] So look them up online.

[1574] Yeah, these shirts, oh my God, you know how the chakadas or cicadas, however you pronounce it?

[1575] There's a thing where they're coming back this year after 28 years and they're all going to.

[1576] They have a picture on the KY for KY whip.

[1577] it's KY4KY .com and it's a cicatist t -shirt and it says let me hear y 'all make some noise so they're a fun bunch they're funny they're funny and fun and love to have fun and buy bears so they bought it that makes it even better they bought the fuck they tracked down single -handedly and bought the cocaine bear because they thought it was I bet they were drinking one night and we're like you know it'd be so funny and what we need here the cocaine bear and they're like what happened to it and then they found it really quick they have a t -shirt that says i'm not a cat i'm i'm here alive i'm not a cat from when that guy was in court and the cat face they have a t -shirt i'm here alive i'm not a cat yeah these guys are on the ball kentucky style on trend okay and there's a cocaine beard they have their own cocaine bear t -shirt don't say it don't say sorry sorry sorry part of it what you don't want me looking at their website while you're trying to tell your story.

[1578] I don't know what the problem is.

[1579] Let me read this.

[1580] So the bear is now on display at the Kentucky for Kentucky Fun Mall in Lexington.

[1581] They sell a line of merchandise based on the bear including t -shirts, which you've seen me wearing before.

[1582] Someone at our Kentucky show gave me one.

[1583] Hats, hoodies, mug, stickers, and snow globes that they call blowglobes.

[1584] Sense of humor.

[1585] Yeah.

[1586] Okay.

[1587] As we all read in variety recently, Elizabeth Banks is signed on to direct the cocaine bear film produced by the dudes who made the Lego movies and they haven't released a lot of details but the movie has been described as a quote character driven thriller inspired by truth events that took place in Kentucky in 1985 so I hope oh period piece period piece a thriller it could be great it could be great it's going to be great and then I wrote hopefully they'll include the quote that was included in Thornton's obituary so Andrew Thornton's obituary One line read, quote, I'm glad his parachute didn't open.

[1588] What?

[1589] Someone hated him.

[1590] You make some enemies when you're.

[1591] Jesus.

[1592] It reminds me of I curse you with my dying breath.

[1593] Yeah.

[1594] For real.

[1595] I'm glad his parachute didn't open.

[1596] Someone fucking said.

[1597] Wait, that can't have been in his obituary.

[1598] It was in his obituary.

[1599] I swear to God.

[1600] That doesn't fix.

[1601] Steven, will you look it up and put it on the Instagram?

[1602] They usually don't let shit like that.

[1603] through.

[1604] Was it in the guest book?

[1605] No, it says obituary.

[1606] I swear.

[1607] Wow.

[1608] That's intense.

[1609] The last line I'll tell you is that according to his friends, Andrew Carter Thornton the second died a millionaire.

[1610] And according to us, the cocaine bear died happy.

[1611] That's the real story of cocaine bear.

[1612] There's also a book which has the entire story of Thornton's smuggling operation as far as anyone's aware of it.

[1613] It's called the Bluegrass Conspiracy by Sally Denton from 1990.

[1614] So check that out if you're into fucking crazy -ass stories.

[1615] I mean, it's so much cocaine.

[1616] That's a crazy fucking story.

[1617] It is nuts.

[1618] Also, like, it's, yeah, the idea that someone drops from the sky and dies in your backyard.

[1619] I bet he was dead before he hit the ground, though.

[1620] Absolutely.

[1621] He had a heart attack.

[1622] First of all, because, you know, he was probably on some cocaine.

[1623] And then he jumps out in a parachute and that parachute doesn't open.

[1624] At least unconscious, you've got to hope.

[1625] Please.

[1626] Well, also, because that just means he's falling straight down.

[1627] So, yeah, that's going to.

[1628] Just this whole, it's so extreme.

[1629] It's like, it's the most, like, fucking Red Bull story of all time.

[1630] It's just nuts.

[1631] It's, 1980s, 1980s, Red Bull story.

[1632] I bet the movie's going to be sponsored by Red Bull.

[1633] And you can get like...

[1634] You should be required to like chug three Red Bulls before you watch that.

[1635] Or what about a Jolt Cola?

[1636] Can I bring those back for this movie?

[1637] The OG?

[1638] Or just cocaine.

[1639] Or just some plain old cocaine in a nice popcorn bucket.

[1640] I mean, that was great.

[1641] Should we let that story be our fucking hooray?

[1642] Maybe.

[1643] Yes.

[1644] I think that was a fucking hooray.

[1645] Right.

[1646] Hold on.

[1647] Epigram.

[1648] A pithy saying or remark expressing an idea.

[1649] in a clever and amusing way.

[1650] Okay, what that guy read, that's not an epigram.

[1651] You're thinking of obituary.

[1652] An epigram is like, no what I'm saying?

[1653] The epigram was the word used.

[1654] And then it's like the point of battle is to inflict as much pain in the shortest amount of time.

[1655] That's not an epigram is like, don't let the screen door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[1656] I believe.

[1657] You mean, don't let the screen door hit you where the good Lord split you?

[1658] Like that.

[1659] Or any number of epigrams.

[1660] Steven, did you find the obituary?

[1661] Yes.

[1662] So in the Rolling Stone article, it says the district attorney who prosecuted Andrew said, I'm glad his parachute didn't open.

[1663] I hope he got a hell of a high out of that.

[1664] What a dick.

[1665] I mean, unless what he was saying is I love him so much.

[1666] He's such my good friend that he got the big final high.

[1667] I bet he didn't even want the parachute to open is what he was saying.

[1668] It just sounds different when you say, I'm glad his parachute.

[1669] It does.

[1670] It didn't.

[1671] It sounds very bad.

[1672] Yeah, maybe he was like he got the ultimate high.

[1673] I'm glad.

[1674] Oh, I loved him.

[1675] I'm glad his parachute didn't open.

[1676] It's what he would have wanted.

[1677] That makes, that sounds way better.

[1678] No one wants their parachute not to open.

[1679] Sorry.

[1680] Here's the first example of an epigram in Google.

[1681] It is better to light a candle than curse the darkness.

[1682] Eleanor Roosevelt.

[1683] And then she says, kill all your enemies with a swift kick.

[1684] Kill them all and let God sort them out.

[1685] Eleanor Roosevelt Love Eleanor Roosevelt Loving kisses Wow All right Well this story is full of information Let us know if you know any other Love it Stories that we should cover Full of Misinformation I think that's our specialty Yeah Thanks for listening You guys are a treat And a treasure And we appreciate all of your hard work And not so hard work Yeah We appreciate it when you relax We appreciate you at all times, resting, in motion, whatever.

[1686] Stay sexy.

[1687] And don't get murdered.

[1688] Goodbye.

[1689] Elvis, do you want a cookie?