Chelsea Handler Returns

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I am not joined by Miniature Mouse, the Emmy -nominated Maximus Mausimus, as I'm in Detroit and she's in L .A. And the time difference is, well, insurmountable in this case.

[3] But I'm very, very excited to talk about the return of one of my favorite guests, Chelsea Handler.

[4] You know her, of course, from Chelsea lately.

[5] Hello, privilege it's me chelsea and her netflix special you've gone to be kidding me she's also the author of many bestselling books and currently she has a new stand -up special entitled chelsea handler evolution that's chelsea handler evolution and it's available to stream on hbo max starting october 22nd so please enjoy miss chelsea handler wondering plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and and ad free right now.

[6] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[7] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[8] He's an object expert.

[9] He's an option Xxper.

[10] Hello.

[11] Who were you on with?

[12] That was Allison Statter, my manager.

[13] How's she doing?

[14] Oh, I don't know.

[15] I just saw her last night, so she probably misses me. Is she married?

[16] Yeah, with three kids.

[17] I can answer it for you.

[18] She's miserable.

[19] Yeah.

[20] She's actually a happily married person, but I understand what you're saying about people being married right now and being miserable.

[21] I don't care how happily married anyone was eight months ago.

[22] Monica, you're happy, though.

[23] You're single, right?

[24] Oh, I'm single.

[25] Yeah, me too.

[26] I'm happy about being single.

[27] It's hard to be happy in general right now, but as happy as can be.

[28] Right.

[29] How are you doing?

[30] First of all, you look fantastic.

[31] Have you just done a cleanse or something or a microdermabrasia?

[32] Yeah, I've probably done a microderm abrasion.

[33] I recently had a facial, Dax.

[34] That must be what you're seeing.

[35] Well, you look fantastic.

[36] I'm even going to say you look even better than you do in your stand -up special, which you looked great in.

[37] Oh, good jumpsuit, too.

[38] Yeah, nice jumper.

[39] Thanks for watching, guys.

[40] You're always so complimentary, Dax.

[41] Well, I'm a big fan of you, Chels.

[42] Thank you.

[43] And once again, watching that thing, particularly when you get into the things that annoy you, I have the same thing.

[44] My level of angst when I try to order room service, I have to put my order in and then hold the phone like two feet from me, or I'll go berserk as they read it all back.

[45] And then I'm just trying my hardest to be kind and nice.

[46] And I'm like, this is so unnecessary for everybody.

[47] And I just feel like for me, I think it's more like I hated rich people.

[48] And this feels like something rich people want to be fucking babied and pandered to and infantilized.

[49] Oh, yeah.

[50] I mean, doesn't everyone want to be a little bit infantilized?

[51] I don't.

[52] I don't.

[53] I want to appear strong and not weak and then I can handle my shit.

[54] The last thing I want is for you to think I can't extend two fucking flaps on a portable table.

[55] Oh, yeah.

[56] See, I don't have a problem with being infantilized.

[57] See, that's like probably male versus female.

[58] I love it because my parents didn't infantilize me. So I was waiting my whole life to be taken care of.

[59] I was like, someone, anyone.

[60] Yeah.

[61] So now it's my.

[62] assistant you know how pathetic is that I had to say to my brothers and sisters we had a family vacation this summer and I had to say to them I'm like hey guys I need a little bit more like connection and support from you guys I know you guys think I'm like miss independent but you're my only family like we're orphans now I don't have parents and I'm not married I go I need you to be checking in and making sure I'm okay yeah the only person I have doing that is a paid employee I need my friends But you know what I mean.

[63] I had to be like very vulnerable because I've spent my life being so tough.

[64] And like, you know, now I have to overexpress myself so people believe me. Yeah.

[65] But don't you think that's kind of like the Achilles heel of being, and I'm going to put it in quotes, alpha.

[66] For myself, I think I recognize like, well, I want to be in charge.

[67] I want to be the guy with the plan.

[68] I want you to count on me. I want you to value that about me. And then yet I'm shocked that no one asked me how I'm doing or if that was rough for me. And it's like, well, I'm sending a very clear message.

[69] which is I've got everything under control.

[70] I don't succumb to any human feelings.

[71] It's really for me, my own doing, I recognize.

[72] Yeah, I mean, that's what we always do to protect ourselves.

[73] We want to protect ourselves.

[74] That's what being strong and fierce and being coming in and being a fixer, right?

[75] Or whatever you want to call it is all about.

[76] Like, I'm going to be strong.

[77] I'm going to grow up real quick so that I'm never going to be in a position of vulnerability again.

[78] I can relate to that.

[79] Yes, big time.

[80] This special is emotional.

[81] a very cool way.

[82] And I think just in general, right, stand -up, it's evolving, right?

[83] Like, I'll see stand -up that's just good.

[84] The jokes are good.

[85] And I'm like, okay, but I need a story or I need a message.

[86] I need a theme.

[87] Like, and I think maybe because of Chappelle, I imagine, is why I now have come to expect some kind of point of view or conclusion.

[88] Do you think it's evolved?

[89] Oh, totally.

[90] I mean, I didn't do stand -up for the last six years because I didn't have anything new to say.

[91] You know what I mean?

[92] And it became meaning.

[93] to me to just like tell jokes without a narrative.

[94] So when I came back around at this time, like, you know, I was on a book tour and then that turned into a stand -up tour, which I wasn't expecting to do.

[95] And then I realized like, oh, I have a narrative now.

[96] Like, this is meaningful to people.

[97] This is a true, really, like, emotionally embarrassing, humiliating, funny story.

[98] That is a human story.

[99] And after I saw Hannah Gadsby and saw that you could take a serious moment and put it in the framework of a one -hour stand -up special, I was like, oh, it can be done.

[100] And then I was like, I want to do it my way.

[101] You know, that's what's so powerful about Chappelle.

[102] Like, he's not for sale, he never has been.

[103] He's always doing his thing the way he wants to do it because he loves comedy and he loves the deeper message within it, you know?

[104] And he doesn't, like, hit you over the head with it.

[105] He's clever about it.

[106] That's why people look at him like he's a comedy god, because he kind of is.

[107] He's created a whole new, genre almost.

[108] Oh, yeah, I totally would agree.

[109] But yours falls into this fun pattern.

[110] You just kind of expose your shitty behavior and your shitty opinions.

[111] You've become self -aware about what a cunt you've been, right?

[112] So you're like, oh, okay, this is bad news.

[113] And then you have to try and organize your like new awareness with your old personality.

[114] And it's so confusing.

[115] It is.

[116] And then so you kind of like putting yourself in a whole.

[117] All your setups are kind of like putting yourself in a whole of that you're just a piece of shit.

[118] But then you let us in on the fact that you recognize you're a piece of shit.

[119] And you know, you're actually taking a step or two to not be a piece of shit.

[120] And it's a fun pattern.

[121] And once you're kind of clicked into it, as you're exposing more pieces of shit parts of your personality, I'm like, how the fuck is she going to dig herself out of this one?

[122] There's some anticipation that's really fun.

[123] And then when you do it, when the turn comes, I'm like, oh, by God, she's back here with us.

[124] Oh, well, thank you.

[125] What a good review, Dax.

[126] I mean, that's so impressive.

[127] that was very thoughtful.

[128] It had me thinking.

[129] Well, isn't it funny?

[130] Sometimes you do shit and it's to the viewer or to the audience, it seems intentional.

[131] It can occur to you later that it was, but that you weren't even aware of it, if that makes any sense.

[132] Like our show, I don't know what our show's about until we did it for a while and people told us what it was.

[133] And I was like, you're right.

[134] That's what it is.

[135] I didn't know that.

[136] Yeah.

[137] I mean, in my experience, the more honest that I am, the more well it's received and the better it feels, you know.

[138] I've always kind of been honest, but you know, you have all these, like what we're talking about earlier, you know, being like known for insulting people, you know, puts people not at ease when they meet you.

[139] Yes, yes.

[140] I was like surprised about that.

[141] Like, why is everybody scared of me?

[142] Like, why doesn't anyone, no one said anything actually.

[143] It wasn't until I really thought about it and reflected.

[144] Like, of course they're worried.

[145] I'm going to like skewer them on television or something, you know, at that time.

[146] Well, just to remind people, if they're not.

[147] they didn't listen to our first one, or if they have forgotten, our first interaction on your show was like, I went in knowing because I was promoting a movie.

[148] I was in that my girlfriend was the star of.

[149] And I'm like, it's just sitting right there.

[150] There's no way she's not going to say my girlfriend got me the role, which you did.

[151] And then I immediately had in the chamber, well, your boyfriend got you a fucking show.

[152] So I guess you're doing a little.

[153] And I had to come with the, you know, with the arrow and the quiver.

[154] And yeah, we had that funny.

[155] That's good.

[156] Good for you.

[157] Anyway, you know what I mean.

[158] You guys get what I'm saying.

[159] We've talked about this anyway before.

[160] But yes, self -awareness is really like a horrendous journey.

[161] If you're really willing to get real, which is why so many people stopped going to therapy after their third session because they're like, oh -oh, I don't even want to go down that road.

[162] Yeah, I wanted to have a pity party where you were like, yeah, your parents were terrible.

[163] And then I wanted it to end there.

[164] You just want to get affirmed and then leave and be like, I'm great.

[165] Yeah, I think that's awesome because I do think a lot of people are afraid to start pulling back the layers because then they get exposed of all the shitty things they've done and it's hard to reconcile.

[166] And it's super uncomfortable.

[167] Like, it's not relaxing.

[168] It's super uncomfortable.

[169] And those things become like what made us succeed in some ways or is what attracted our friends to us.

[170] And so the notion of getting rid of that key ingredient seems like it's existential or that is threatening all these other areas of our lives.

[171] Yeah, for sure.

[172] Because you're like, oh, wait, I have this new personality where I am self -aware.

[173] Where's my edge from before?

[174] Am I still allowed to operate like that?

[175] Like, that's what makes me me. And now I have to like sand down the edges, how much?

[176] Yeah.

[177] How much are you willing to give away of your own real, like essence of who you think you are, your personality anyway?

[178] Essence seems like a pretty heavy word for it.

[179] But you know what I'm saying.

[180] Yeah, but weirdly like your stand -up, your current stand -up, revolution.

[181] is what it's called?

[182] That didn't come through correctly on our link from HBO Max.

[183] It was going to be revolution.

[184] That's probably why.

[185] With the R crossed out, but then we settled on evolution because it would be too hard for people to deal with on the search engine.

[186] On the eve of a civil war, yeah.

[187] It doesn't sound.

[188] Yes, exactly.

[189] That too.

[190] Yeah, the thing fell into this pattern that I love about AA shares, which is generally, in my meeting, at least, dudes expose themselves of having been a terrible, husband or dad or having some grandiose fantasy about who they are and then they're telling on themselves and then they go and then I remembered I had to do this so it's like you can still do it all weirdly you can have your cake and eat it too like you can still be a piece of shit is just you just got to own it that's really the only responsibility anyone's asking of anyone right is like no one's expecting you not to be a piece of shit they're just hoping that you recognize when you're a piece of shit and you apologize for it and you do what you can to clean up the mess you inevitably make.

[191] Yeah, and not to continue to repeat to be a piece of shit.

[192] Right?

[193] Like, you have to kind of amend your behavior if you've acted badly.

[194] And I too believe that everyone is capable of forgiveness or, you know, I want to be capable of forgiveness to anyone.

[195] And that is it.

[196] It's like when guys apologize after there's been an accusation or multiple accusations, we sincerely and come forward and are like, listen, well, this isn't something that I was well versed in.

[197] I had no idea how I'd overstepped, and it's sincere that, of course, we should forgive people.

[198] Absolutely.

[199] It's inhumane not to.

[200] Yeah.

[201] I mean, I haven't even had one of those accusations, thank God.

[202] Not yet, Dax.

[203] Not yet.

[204] This interview's not over.

[205] Yeah, my joke to Kristen is every time something comes out, I go, tick to tick to.

[206] But even within what I think is semi -feminist point of view, I am like, monthly recognizing I have layers of massaging.

[207] I just, you know, just wasn't even aware of.

[208] Like, we're watching TV, Kristen Knight.

[209] I'm so aware of the aging female and I'm not aware of the aging male.

[210] I'm like thinking about her age.

[211] The whole show, I'd admit it to Kristen.

[212] And she's like, yeah, I am too.

[213] And I'm like, yeah, that's fucking baked into us.

[214] Yeah, it's like racism.

[215] It's inured in us.

[216] So we're operating in a system that we haven't even learned about how sad is at until like, you know, a few years ago.

[217] We're all coming to grips with our own privilege and our own sexism.

[218] all over racism.

[219] I mean, it's almost like white people are just finding out about racism.

[220] You know, what a privilege to have not known.

[221] Yeah.

[222] And so everyone is just like, shit, what are you doing?

[223] How are you doing?

[224] The levels of insecurity are so high because people are scared and they're operating out of fear.

[225] You know, everyone's so fearful right now.

[226] Yeah.

[227] I hear you.

[228] I totally can relate to it.

[229] And I can relate to like a lot of white males being like, whoa, wait.

[230] also being like oh shit is the party over like wait you're going to tell on us now you know and it doesn't have to be that way it's not like a zero -sum game and I think whenever we all come to Jesus together and realize okay listen we all just need to be really well educated and respectful of one another and like kind and loving and all of that shit needs to be like employed into our children's schools yeah and psychologists will say when you threaten people's identity, that's when they're going to fight for their lives, right?

[231] Like if you're really trying to threaten who they think they are.

[232] So I have to imagine all of us wake up in the morning and think we're a kind of good person.

[233] No one would wake up and go like, I'm an evil motherfucker and I'm loving it and I'm going to keep going.

[234] We all kind of think we're good people.

[235] So if you point out something that is antithetical to being good, which is some level of racism, it's quite threatening to who you think you are.

[236] So I understand the defensiveness of it because it's your identity and no one's walking around thinking I'm a racist, well, white nationalists are, but you know, most people aren't walking around going like, I'm a racist son of a bitch and I love it.

[237] Even they don't think they're racist.

[238] They just think they're right.

[239] Well, they just think they love white people and white people need defending.

[240] But that's the way it should be, not that it's racism.

[241] Yeah, and then that's just like a lack of history.

[242] Like we don't understand what the hell we did to black people.

[243] There are not enough white people in this country that understand that we were selling them, like, you know, cattle and enslaving them and stealing them from their families.

[244] And they don't think there's any responsibility to our generation because we weren't here, even though we stole 12 generations of black people.

[245] 12 generations, we did that.

[246] And then we still do it.

[247] It's just now under laws that protect the killing of black men.

[248] You have to be a police officer to kill one now.

[249] You know, that's how systemic and disruptive it is.

[250] And so with, sorry, I know I keep going to racism.

[251] You're talking about sexism, but it's my, you know, passion thing right now.

[252] It's all there.

[253] It's all related, right.

[254] It is all fallout from a white patriarchal society that we've all lived in.

[255] I'd actually argue people do get slavery.

[256] So it's like, yeah, the big forest fire was out.

[257] The one you understand you shouldn't own people.

[258] That's pretty self -evident.

[259] But they're failing to recognize then what followed that.

[260] And then what followed that.

[261] And then we don't give loans to people.

[262] And then we forbid people to sell their house to black people.

[263] Like all these things in acquiring wealth, like those are the things that are not as loud and obvious that people just need, I think, education on.

[264] Yeah, yeah.

[265] People don't seem to get the domino effects of that kind of system.

[266] And the fact that this country was built on that system, we've signed the Declaration of Independence when we had 200 ,000 slaves saying we want freedom, freedom, freedom for all men.

[267] Well, we enslaved 200 ,000 people.

[268] So America isn't yet what it could be.

[269] It really never has been, but it can be.

[270] It's the idealistic version, right, of what we can all do when more women are in power and making decisions.

[271] And white men aren't a dominant caste system.

[272] I'm reading that book cast by Ingrid Wilkinson right now, which is...

[273] I'm trying to have her on.

[274] Was it great?

[275] Oh, yeah, you guys have to get her.

[276] The book is so intense.

[277] I mean, it's so well written and it's so educational.

[278] It talks about how the knots...

[279] Sorry, this is heavy, but I'll get...

[280] No, no, who cares.

[281] We're going to get to that funny joke stuff we both bond on eventually.

[282] It's a comedy special.

[283] Anyway, back to the Holocaust.

[284] They talk about how the Nazis studied, you know, Jim Crow South in America to figure out how to oppress the Jews and how to make them into a subjugated cast.

[285] And that's what this book, it tells you all this information that, you know, like I think I'm woke, but you're never woke, really.

[286] That may be the only thing Germany's copied us on.

[287] I mean, generally they had a better school system and better engineering.

[288] This is...

[289] So embarrassing.

[290] There you go.

[291] Kudos to us once more.

[292] Yeah.

[293] I want to wrap this up with one thought, which is, what year did your white privilege documentary come out?

[294] 19 or 18?

[295] 2019, yeah.

[296] Okay, so here's what I realized the other day.

[297] We interviewed Bob Woodward, and, you know, I had to listen to all those tapes back and forth, and to hear Bob Woodward be very, very, both educated and having internalized the concept of white privilege, which I'm going to tell you was hard for me to get to.

[298] you know i'm like my why fucking i was poor of divorce violence where's my privilege i started there and then my little gateway was oh yeah and you'd also be imprisoned being the drug addict you were for all those years if you were black and then building upon that but anyways to see bob woodward at nearly 80 years old have an understanding of that and speaking pretty profoundly on it i realize oh it's it's kind of disseminated but you really were one of the vanguards of that when you did it it was we were not where we're at now.

[299] It was still very triggering, I think, to a lot of people.

[300] And I just wonder if there's any, not that you would ever want to brag for doing that, but is there any satisfaction in going like, I took a swing and thank God, you know, people are more and more open to this notion.

[301] No, I mean, yeah, it was a little bit before the big, before George Floyd.

[302] Yeah, but if Black Lives Matter had been going on for a while.

[303] And I definitely wanted to attack the issue of white privilege from my own perspective, because, like, look where I'm sitting, you know?

[304] I mean, my life...

[305] It's a gorgeous, by the way.

[306] It is.

[307] Thank you.

[308] We've never been invited to a pool party.

[309] Maybe it's because we don't do Molly, but we could watch.

[310] Yeah, we only do Molly pool parties here.

[311] You have to have Molly to get into it.

[312] I wanted to hang out my own white privilege.

[313] You know, I wanted to, like, obviously a white person can't make a movie about white privilege unless you're going to be like, hey, look at me and my dumbass, thinking that I got everything I deserved because I'm so talented.

[314] It's like, no, no, no, no. There's a bigger story there.

[315] You know, there's a bigger story with how much you get away with, you know, as a person.

[316] And my ex -boyfriend from high school, who was black, is in the documentary.

[317] And we revisit him.

[318] And we got caught with dime bags like two or three times in high school.

[319] And he was arrested both times.

[320] And I was let go both times.

[321] Yeah.

[322] So it's like you're looking for one person to mess up and you're looking for the other person to give a favor to.

[323] When that happened, did you file it into, oh, this just happened because I'm, female and he's male or I'm younger and he's older or do you recognize oh it's because I'm white no I totally was delusional I thought oh I'm pretty or I'm I'm a girl and he's flirting with me right yeah like whatever I mean I was so clueless and that's what you know when you're saying like the stuff that you're admitting to seeing on when you're watching television with Kristen you know it's important for all of us to say the things that were ashamed of out loud it's important to recognize that we have bias and that, you know, you're not a bad person because of it.

[324] You're a product of a culture that taught it to you.

[325] And we have to kind of just dismantle it.

[326] And it takes a lot of retrograde behavior, you know, we have to really deactivate all of the stuff that we've been taught.

[327] So it's not that you're guilty.

[328] It's just that you have to be really just kind of more alert to it, I think.

[329] Yeah, we had this guy on who was an expert on systems and he said, whatever result you're looking at is the result of a perfectly designed system to create that result.

[330] Does that make sense?

[331] Like you could say, oh, the school system should be doing this and we have these policies.

[332] But when you look at the result, the result is the result.

[333] So what you know is that that system's perfect for creating that result.

[334] And again, I think that's also encouraging for other people.

[335] It's like, it's not so much about the people as it is about the system that's creating the people.

[336] And there's a lot more to me optimism in that.

[337] I can't police how everyone thinks, but we can police how we incarcerate people.

[338] We can police how, you know, we do a bunch of different things that can help.

[339] Yeah, absolutely.

[340] I mean, there's a lot more that we can be doing.

[341] You know what I mean?

[342] And I just feel like, you know, when you have a lot of privilege and you have a big platform, you got a shout about the things that you really care about because it's not about you.

[343] You know, at a certain point, you have to realize, okay, we have to give back.

[344] You can't just sit here collecting paychecks and not do anything mindful with it, you know, and just sit on, I mean, I'd love to sit in my chaise all day and just smoke joints.

[345] And a lot of the times I do.

[346] I do that, like, on a regular basis, but I don't do that every day.

[347] You know, I try and give back.

[348] Okay, now here's a really funny parallel that I saw in the stand -up special, which was making me laugh with embarrassment, which is I, too, am the family doctor.

[349] I'm the doctor in our friendship circle.

[350] My brother was visiting and his shoulder was hurting and I'm like, well, take a shot of my Humera.

[351] I mean, that's a very serious immunosuppressant.

[352] My wife was like, you cannot be giving your brother a Humera.

[353] You know, he's got to get tested for TB and blah.

[354] I'm like, he does not have TB.

[355] Give him a shot.

[356] He caught, man, I feel fantastic.

[357] I'm like, great.

[358] Well, now go to the doctor and make sure you don't have TB and then keep on it.

[359] And similarly, I'll give out anything.

[360] And I have the same exact relationship to drugs as you, which is like, I do well with them.

[361] I don't get out of control.

[362] I don't lose my, well.

[363] I don't know about that.

[364] You're sober for a reason to ask.

[365] Something happened.

[366] Well, right.

[367] And maybe, maybe you heard I just relapse on opiates.

[368] But side note, I didn't ever go berserk.

[369] And when I was on shrooms, I wasn't the guy who lost his wallet, was pissing his pants.

[370] And when I did Coke, you know what I'm saying?

[371] Like, there was, for me at least, was a faux level of like, I handle it all well.

[372] I don't have bad trips, like, as you were saying.

[373] Did you really relapse recently?

[374] Oh, my God.

[375] I didn't know that.

[376] I'm sorry.

[377] It's okay.

[378] I had a bunch of surgeries and then I decided when the prescriptions were done that it was time to just get some and manage it.

[379] And then it didn't pan out, as you would expect.

[380] Okay.

[381] Well, I'm glad you're talking about it.

[382] That's good.

[383] Right?

[384] From your accident, right?

[385] You had a motorcycle accident, right?

[386] Yeah, yeah.

[387] Yeah.

[388] Well, that is another question I have for you.

[389] I'm going to get to that.

[390] But when you were saying, you can kind of look at somebody and be like, you know what your thing should be is you should be on edibles.

[391] You need Adderall big time.

[392] I can tell by a body type what person needs what drug.

[393] Like if you're going to respond well, like I would definitely know you should not have been taking opioids.

[394] I can tell that Monica could probably handle them fine.

[395] Thank you.

[396] But, you know, with edibles, once I'm able to, because, you know, the opioid industry obviously is disgusting and the pharmaceutical industry is disgusting.

[397] It was such a nice opportunity to be able to pivot from, like, the cannabis industry into weed and edibles.

[398] And also, like, it reduces your need to drink alcohol if you're a drinker, which for me was, like, you know, a sentence I never thought I'd say.

[399] But I'm so good with diagnosing what people need.

[400] Like, especially with edibles.

[401] Like, I know if my friend can handle five milligrams or 10 milligrams or if this is going to be too much for her, you know, because people are pussies.

[402] They can't handle that.

[403] I mean, I can.

[404] I can handle a lot of stuff.

[405] Sure.

[406] But a lot of people cannot.

[407] And it's people that you, sometimes, like, it's counterintuitive.

[408] It's like, you know, heavier people sometimes are the biggest lightweights.

[409] Oh, I have a friend who's an ER doctor in the emergency room at Cedars.

[410] And she said that when they get the shut -ins that come in, which is about, I don't know, once a month at Cedars, they bring someone in who hasn't left their house in years.

[411] And those people that are very, very heavy, like over 400 pounds, they can't even give them a Vicodin.

[412] They'll stop breathing.

[413] And I'm like, oh, that's so counterintuitive.

[414] You'd think you'd be able to give them like horse tranquilizers yeah three bike it ahead yeah but not the case now let me ask you do you think you and i are physiologically different or do you think are wanting to be in control are wanting to be strong or wanting to be powerful that we have willed that reaction to all these things yeah maybe i mean i don't think everybody who feels that they want to be those things necessarily achieves them i don't know i haven't experienced a lot of people who've said they wanted to be powerful and not accomplished it.

[415] But that's another hard conversation people would have a hard time having, right?

[416] Yeah.

[417] I mean, do you find that?

[418] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[419] I don't know if it's a chicken or an egg.

[420] I just know that from the age of 12, I was trying to demonstrate to the world at all times that I was immortal and powerful and could ride wheelies and could jump shit and would fight guys and would fuck girls and would take all the drugs.

[421] So I'm inclined to think I have a physiological advantage.

[422] I mean, it can drink a fifth of Jack Daniels and still ride.

[423] And a motorcycle a lot most people can't so i don't i don't know i'm i'm genuinely curious yeah i don't know either i mean it could be a mental advantage you know it's a mindset also more than anything yeah and like riding the line right like i feel like i'm pretty good at like staying right on the line where i would start feeling a little queasy yeah absolutely when i go skiing with my girlfriends like i'm a maniac i'm a maniac i'm a maniac like i skied off a cliff last year in whistler canada and literally like back down a mountain.

[424] I mean, skied off a cliff and landed so quickly that I skied up it without trying to and then back down it.

[425] And these guys were clapping when I landed because they thought it was intentional.

[426] And then I started to wipe out.

[427] And they were like, oh, oh, that's not that cool.

[428] Did you have any thought of like, I'm going to take my goggles and helmet off so they know it's me?

[429] Not only do you see something cool, I'm also a coward actor, but that, hey, that surprised you, No, no, I didn't feel the need to do that.

[430] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[431] What's up, guys?

[432] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[433] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[434] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[435] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[436] And I don't mean just friends.

[437] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[438] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[439] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[440] We've all been there.

[441] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[442] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[443] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[444] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[445] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[446] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[447] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[448] Prime members can listen early and ad -free, on Amazon Music.

[449] Okay, my family, my brother and I screamed at the top of our lungs to each other.

[450] We fist fought hourly and the conversations at the dinner table were screaming and everyone was fine with it and I was very much misled to think that the rest of the world communicated that way and it has taken me a lifetime to recognize that the way I'm talking to people is not comfortable for them.

[451] And that was something that kind of came up in your special.

[452] When did you realize that?

[453] Mostly through Kristen and Monica.

[454] If we get into it, I will start saying fuck often.

[455] And that for Monica's like, I hear you.

[456] Well, I'm like, I can't really continue this conversation.

[457] If you're immediately at a 10 and you're screaming fuck at me, like, we can't continue this.

[458] That's totally how I was.

[459] I mean, I would just be like such a bully.

[460] And if people disagree with me, I'm like, you're wrong.

[461] You're a fucking idiot and you're wrong.

[462] And I was confident about my opinion.

[463] And I was like, what is everyone's problem?

[464] Well, in our defense, I believe if I hadn't taken that position, I would just get fucking run over in my family.

[465] Yeah, I hear you about that.

[466] You're seeking confidence and attention.

[467] Like, we all want attention.

[468] Let's not pretend we don't.

[469] Oh, no, I need it all.

[470] And I hate other people who are trying to get attention in a manner I don't approve of it.

[471] Totally.

[472] I'm at a dinner party.

[473] I'm like, I fucking hate this guy.

[474] He's like trying to get sympathy.

[475] Oh, I hate that approach to getting attention.

[476] as if mine's any less disgusting.

[477] Do you find yourself to be very judgmental of others on that note?

[478] Only when they're doing the shit I'm doing that I hate about myself.

[479] Truly, I don't think I ever have a problem with someone's shittiness when it's not my own shittiness.

[480] I can just see it as for what it is.

[481] Oh, that's kind of a bad personality trait.

[482] It doesn't make me emotional.

[483] But if somebody's got a good con going, I'm like, this fucking, you know, this con artist.

[484] Totally.

[485] Totally.

[486] Totally.

[487] I have someone like that.

[488] I'm like, oh, please, I can't even fucking hear her name.

[489] She's so ridiculous.

[490] It's like, why do I care?

[491] Yeah, I know why I care because I hate that about myself.

[492] Okay, I just want you to tell us about going out to eat in L .A. First of all, L .A.'s vibe is a lot different than anywhere else in this country.

[493] People go out to order and act like they're at their house, you know, ordering from their chef.

[494] So it's a lot of, like, embarrassing orders that you, and then you become the embarrassing person at some point.

[495] You're like, I have no problem going into a room.

[496] a restaurant and you know getting a chicken sandwich with you know no chicken on the chicken and skin over here and like you ask for things that you never believed you would even be capable of asking you just have to be here for two years but people who don't pay attention to servers because I was a waiter for like five years so I'm very sensitive to servers and obviously their plight and how miserable their fucking jobs are so we were out to and this was when I was first going to therapy and I was like first basically facing the idea that maybe I had an attitude problem.

[497] You know, maybe.

[498] And I had just come from lunch with, like, three of my girlfriends, and one of them ordered a turkey burger, no onion, no bun, no cheese.

[499] And I was, you know, just rolling my eyes immediately.

[500] And then the waiter comes over.

[501] I didn't say anything right away.

[502] And it was right after the election, so I was extra pissed.

[503] That really set me off, right?

[504] And he was holding, like, four giant plates.

[505] And he's like, you know, turkey burger, no onion, no bun, no cheese.

[506] You know, I'm immediately looking at him, like, let's have.

[507] give this guy a load off and she's just sitting there like you know stevie wonder at the piano just smiling happy clueless as to what's going on there's not even a waiter there we may as well not even be in a restaurant as far as she's concerned and i just fucking lost it i was like hey you fucking cut is that your turkey burger yes the person will just be standing there for five minutes repeating everything they're holding and i had just lost it i was like so mad i couldn't even eat my meal.

[508] My other two girlfriends are like, dude, relax.

[509] You know, what is your problem?

[510] I mean, they didn't say that, but they looked like, like, I don't think anyone had to say it.

[511] It was like, oh, God, you again?

[512] So it was like at that point where my anger and outrage had reached a crescendo where everybody annoyed the living shit out of me. You know, people still annoy me, but I now have tools to deal with it and not judge people so harshly.

[513] Right.

[514] But that was definitely at the peak.

[515] Yeah, so you got yourself to a position, right, where you were so upset with the election results, you know, is really starting to affect your daily and hourly life as you move through the world, enough so that you finally sought some counseling.

[516] And the counselor pretty quickly zeroed in on this notion that maybe you're not very empathetic.

[517] And then you take the time to explain the difference between empathy and sympathy, which I think is very useful.

[518] So tell us what is the difference.

[519] Well, I didn't, I thought empathy was just like being a Republican, you know?

[520] I was like, wait, no empathy.

[521] That sounds like a Republican.

[522] But then I was like, no, draw the distinction again.

[523] I said to my guy that I was seeing, Dan, I was like, draw the distinction between empathy and sympathy.

[524] And sympathy is obviously when you feel pity for someone, when you do something nice for another person that you feel sorry for or that's in a bind.

[525] Empathy is actually imagining what it's like to be that person that's going through the difficult time.

[526] So we talked about sympathy.

[527] And I was like, oh, yeah, I would give, you know, I would help strangers.

[528] I would give anything to anybody to help them.

[529] Like, no problem there.

[530] And he said, but are you thinking about what it's like to be them?

[531] I'm like, no, that's depressing.

[532] Right, right, right.

[533] He's like, that's empathy.

[534] And I'm like, shit, how do I get some?

[535] I worked my ass off my whole life so I didn't feel that way.

[536] Why on earth would I choose now to feel the way I was avoiding for the last 20 years?

[537] Yeah, exactly.

[538] So then I was just like thinking about all the different times where I lacked empathy.

[539] You know, like I remember seeing that movie call me by your name and I went in and it was a gay love story and I'm with one of my gay friends.

[540] Five minutes in, I had no idea what the movie was going in.

[541] And as soon as I realized it was a gay love story, I was like, oh, my, I go, what is this?

[542] A gay love story?

[543] And he's like, shut up.

[544] And I go, you are so selfish.

[545] And I'm like, oh my God.

[546] That is so unempathetic.

[547] I mean, gay people have had to sit through our fucking straight love stories.

[548] since the beginning of time.

[549] It is crazy.

[550] I mean, you really got to imagine that you're straight and you grew up in a world where everyone was gay and you've only watched a fucking 90210, 100, all the dudes were dating and all the women were dating.

[551] And you never saw it.

[552] I mean, you really got to think that.

[553] The other thing I crossed my mind is like, for women, growing up, going into each classroom, and there's like 20 pictures of awesome dudes who've changed the world, and you never see yourself.

[554] I have my own issue with the, Bible, you know, like, did women get involved at all in this, you know?

[555] Where are they?

[556] And you got to stop and try to imagine that experience.

[557] Yeah, imagine what it's like to be, you know, a gay person, if you're not a gay person.

[558] Now I just, in honor of gay people, I have gay porn on on all of my televisions all day long running on a loop.

[559] Okay, the other thing I love about you is almost everything seems to make you horny.

[560] And like the way you're describing going to the nail salon and having some bad thoughts, I'm like, you get it.

[561] It can be anything.

[562] I think mine's rooted in dysfunction, but I don't know.

[563] You have a healthy horniness?

[564] I don't know.

[565] I don't think I have a healthy horniness.

[566] I think I might lack horniness, actually, quite frankly.

[567] I mean, I'm definitely not actively having a lot of sex or thinking about having a lot of sex.

[568] I mean, I'm open to it, but it's not, I don't feel exceedingly horny.

[569] I think I was drawing the distinction between men when they get horny and women when they get horny and their reactions, which are for men is to pull their dicks out and just ejaculate onto whatever they're closest to.

[570] And where for women, we're able to control ourselves and understand that we can't just start finger blasting ourselves in the middle of a nail salon or let anyone else do that with us.

[571] You're so right.

[572] My best friend, Aaron Weekly, we used to work at this place in Troy, Michigan.

[573] And on the same, like, industrial court, there was the, I'm afraid to say this because it's probably still open, but the most disgusting restaurant, imaginable, called Caboodles.

[574] At some point, I said, can you imagine eating at Caboodles?

[575] And Aaron goes, no. I've been in there like 10 times, but I've never eaten there.

[576] I'm like, what are you talking about?

[577] He's like, oh, I jerk off in the Caboodle's bathroom sometime because, you know, we're at work.

[578] And I just got to swing over there and get into a store and spray somewhere.

[579] And that Caboodles is the closest.

[580] And I thought, man, that is a serious thing to have to go to Caboodles midday.

[581] I mean, honestly, that is the difference between women and men, right?

[582] Monica, have you ever known any woman that's masturbated onto a plant?

[583] No, but I know a bunch of men who have.

[584] It's so disappointing because also women have to understand what it's like to be a guy.

[585] You know, it's not your fault necessarily either that you guys are kind of disgusting.

[586] Yeah, Aaron didn't pick to need to fucking spray midday.

[587] You know, he would have, something would have come loose if he didn't, I think.

[588] Well, that's probably not true either.

[589] But we need to understand that you guys have grown up in this culture too.

[590] And so you behave the way you do because you're a product of your environment.

[591] I don't want to say it's not your fault because we now are getting educated.

[592] So we all have to take responsibility.

[593] But we have a lot of work to do.

[594] And it needs to start with, you know, less public ejaculation.

[595] That's a good place to start.

[596] Yeah.

[597] That's a good place for it.

[598] That's a good, yeah, like a little bar to set.

[599] I don't think I have a single male friend that hasn't jerked off in the airplane bathroom.

[600] And I don't think I have a single female friend who has done it because it's so foul in there.

[601] Even as the guy, you're like trying to ignore a lot of stuff you're seeing.

[602] Oh, yeah.

[603] Those are, I mean, to masturbate in that bathroom is so gross.

[604] To even go to the bathroom and that bathroom is challenging.

[605] But it's because men are used to getting what they want when they want it right now.

[606] And so if you feel like you're horny, you're like, yep, I'm going to, I'm going to figure out a way to come on the closest thing near me as opposed to a woman who's like kind of used to a slow burn if they get anything at all, you know?

[607] So it's like, I can hold off.

[608] Well, I think that's certainly part of it.

[609] There's also a biological part of it.

[610] Well, it's true.

[611] We have testosterone and you have estrogen.

[612] And that's my next question.

[613] You took testosterone cream, which I love.

[614] did you feel hornier?

[615] Well, so my doctor was like, you're very low on testosterone.

[616] I'm like, that's weird.

[617] I'm pretty angry.

[618] She's like...

[619] Pretty aggressive.

[620] Pretty aggressive.

[621] And she said, no, you're low on it.

[622] You don't have any of it.

[623] And so she's like, it's good, you know, when you're losing your hormones, it's good to kind of replace them, you know, if you want to keep and maintain those levels.

[624] I didn't ask enough questions at that time about what testosterone did.

[625] And then like a couple months later, I was like, the front hair of my hair was like getting thin and there was like hair coming out.

[626] And I was like, what?

[627] And so I went to my doctor and I told her and she's like, well, are you taking testosterone?

[628] And I'm like, yeah, bitch, you prescribed it to me. I'm like, so what are you?

[629] What do you mean?

[630] That's why my hair is like thinning.

[631] She goes, well, sometimes testosterone can make your hair thin.

[632] And I said, well, what is testosterone giving me in the first place?

[633] And she said, it's giving you energy at a sex drive.

[634] And I'm like, so I can be bald and horny?

[635] Like, no thanks.

[636] I'm not taking that anymore.

[637] I'd rather be alone and have hair.

[638] Okay, really quick.

[639] You're pointing out what could be the worst scenario for you is bald and horny.

[640] Right.

[641] And guess what?

[642] Half of America is made up of men and half of them are bald and horny.

[643] It's a death sentence.

[644] So then they should be allowed to be ejaculate.

[645] No, it does not.

[646] It does not.

[647] But we could have a little bit of empathy to figure out how we prevent them from fucking spraying on plants.

[648] I agree.

[649] No one should spray on plants.

[650] and also 25 % of America's bald and horny.

[651] Yeah, that explains a lot of our problems probably.

[652] You know, that's why people are angry because they're bald and they're horny.

[653] And then that can turn into white supremacy if it's not monitored closely.

[654] But did you feel hornier?

[655] With the testosterone?

[656] Yeah.

[657] I stopped taking it, obviously.

[658] But no, I didn't feel hornier.

[659] I mean, I get turned on when I'm into somebody, you know, when I have somebody that I have to can focus on, not as an abstract idea.

[660] Like when I'm into somebody, totally, but not in my spare time.

[661] I'm not just sitting at home masturbating, you know.

[662] Well, I can just share you my experience, which is there is the thing you have, which we also have, which is we fall in love with people and we want intimacy with people and we want to connect with them.

[663] And also, we would fuck a pile of wood hoping there was a snake inside.

[664] Let me think about that for a second.

[665] It's a great joke, my older friend told me. Hoping that there was a snake inside.

[666] I don't get that joke.

[667] You would just rub into anything that was soft or warm.

[668] Oh, oh, I see.

[669] There's two things.

[670] There's like young boys, it's pretty unanimous.

[671] They're all jerking off every single day and sometimes two, three times a day.

[672] Oh, shit.

[673] Did you guys lose me?

[674] No, we hear you.

[675] We hear you.

[676] We hear you.

[677] We don't see you anymore.

[678] Oh, wait.

[679] I see what happened.

[680] One second.

[681] One sec, you guys.

[682] Brandon's coming up to help me. No worries.

[683] Because I can't do anything on my own.

[684] Okay.

[685] Okay, guys, I'm back.

[686] Everything's okay now.

[687] Wonderful, wonderful, wonderful.

[688] So yes, I'm not going to relent on the fact that there is a biological component.

[689] I think it's a very complicated stew that is the male.

[690] I think you made your point.

[691] Okay, thank you.

[692] Thank you for letting me make my point.

[693] And I didn't say fuck once to make my point.

[694] So I'm going to pat myself on the back.

[695] Was that your assistant who checks in on you?

[696] Yeah, Brendan.

[697] He's lovely looking.

[698] Yeah, he is.

[699] How do you decide whether you're going to have a male or a female or a gay or a straight assistant?

[700] Is there thought that goes into that?

[701] Not really.

[702] No. If you dig someone's vibe, you're in.

[703] Yeah, yeah.

[704] He's been with me for like, I mean, he was an intern on Chelsea lately.

[705] Oh, okay.

[706] Originally, originally.

[707] And then he came to work for me like three or four years ago.

[708] So, yeah.

[709] Most people I work with are from Chelsea lately.

[710] That's great.

[711] Yeah.

[712] Well, you could use ZipRecruiter, I'm just going to say.

[713] Most people find a qualified candidate four out of five times.

[714] Okay, I want to talk about edibles because you love them.

[715] I just want to start with saying I am very pro edibles.

[716] I am pro marijuana.

[717] I don't think there's really any difference for many people between an edible and an antidepressant.

[718] I think it's kind of nature's antidepressant.

[719] Yeah, totally.

[720] I'm definitely pro them.

[721] So there's zero judgment.

[722] You love them.

[723] I see why you love them.

[724] They've benefited you in many ways.

[725] You drink less.

[726] You have fun with your family members.

[727] I get it.

[728] But is there any part of your brain that's like, but why do I desire a different state at all?

[729] Yeah, totally.

[730] I mean, I just like altered states.

[731] And that you have to accept about yourself.

[732] Like when we started quarantine for the first two weeks when we thought it was going to be two weeks, you know, I treated that like spring break.

[733] Like I just went off.

[734] I was like, okay, I have mushrooms.

[735] I have I have, I have edibles.

[736] I have capsule edibles.

[737] I have THC pure edibles.

[738] Like I took that as my like discovery time.

[739] Yeah.

[740] And then after two weeks, you're not.

[741] not interested.

[742] You know what I mean?

[743] Like, well, then the altered state is sobriety.

[744] So it's like you click back.

[745] Yeah.

[746] So then you flip back and you're like, all right, I'd rather take a break from edible.

[747] Well, eventually you have to so you're not brain dead.

[748] You know, you don't want to overdo everything.

[749] And I have a pattern of overdoing things and then I just get it out of my life.

[750] You know, like I'll be like, oh, I can't do that anymore.

[751] I blew it.

[752] You know?

[753] But I always will be open to reintroducing it.

[754] But I have to behave myself.

[755] I can't just be like a lunatic.

[756] You know what I mean.

[757] Even I have rules about that kind of stuff.

[758] But with edibles, it's almost like the way that microdosing works is it's so helpful.

[759] You can attain what you're after.

[760] Like if you're trying to have a little bit of an upper and you're going to dinner and you don't want to drink, then that's what it can provide you with.

[761] If you want to get creative, then there are certain strains that can provide you with that.

[762] So it's like you're in control of cannabis rather than cannabis controlling you.

[763] And that's what I like about it.

[764] It's almost imperceptible with microdosing, in my opinion, the terms of effectiveness, like if I'm going to have a day where I want to be like creative or something or be writing, then I just want a little bit that gives me a little oomph.

[765] I don't want to be overtaken by the cannabis.

[766] That's not my first desire.

[767] It was for a long time and I've experimented with that.

[768] But that's why I love drugs is because there's such a big spectrum of feelings and different ways of looking at the world and at looking at yourself and at looking at life.

[769] Like I love altered states.

[770] Yeah.

[771] I do think it's funny though.

[772] Dan Savage.

[773] says that he does miss the days of the pot brownie lottery.

[774] Like, are you going to get the one with 600 milligrams of T .HC?

[775] Or you're going to get the one with three?

[776] Yeah, right.

[777] Exactly.

[778] Brownie roulette.

[779] Yeah, it depends what part of my pot cycle I'm on.

[780] It made me just think, you know, when you're describing your brother and the relationship you had, I just related very much to I didn't have a dad around and I had a brother that was five years older than me and that we had a quite often a parent -child relationship as opposed to like a sibling.

[781] relationship.

[782] And I think in the past, when I've done like any kind of analysis of why I am the way, yeah, I'm focusing on my parents.

[783] But more and more and more, I just keep thinking, I probably need to look more into the relationship with my brother and I because he was raising me, but he was only fucking nine.

[784] You know, who's qualified to raise a kid at nine and then at 12?

[785] So I think so much of my stuff is really more sibling than parent.

[786] Do you find that?

[787] Well, I think it's like an attachment figure, right?

[788] Who's your attachment figure?

[789] and you can have two, but like, you know, I found out through therapy that one of my attachment figures wasn't my father.

[790] It was my brother that died and it was my mom and my sister.

[791] Like you can have multiple, but it's like, who are you attached to and relying upon?

[792] I mean, that makes perfect sense what you're saying.

[793] Your brother was like your parent.

[794] So, you know, you start to think of them that way.

[795] Yeah.

[796] So here's another thing I was wondering, as you've gotten more and more open and you made yourself incredibly vulnerable in that special and got emotional, when you've gotten vulnerable and owned these things about yourself?

[797] Is it easy for you to do when you control it and then hard for you to do when you don't control it?

[798] Well, in the special, I just let it be real.

[799] Like, I just try to be real.

[800] I can't manufacture that stuff, you know, and you can't control it, really.

[801] Like, you just have to be, like, in the moment and see what happens.

[802] So the special ended up, like, hitting me, you know, in a way that it was captured.

[803] You could, you know, you could see it.

[804] So it was just being real.

[805] It was like being real in the moment.

[806] I've done that show plenty of times where I've gotten emotional and plenty of times where I haven't.

[807] And it just depends, you know, and when I'm really present, which I try to be, obviously, now when I'm performing, you know, now that I know how important it is to actually be mindful of what you're saying and doing and being in the moment rather than waiting for it to be over or waiting to go get shit -faced after with your friends, like, it's important to be in the moment when you are on stage.

[808] And, you know, I took that for granted for a long time.

[809] So that's helped me really not try to control it, but to know it.

[810] You know what I mean?

[811] To know the material without controlling the material.

[812] Okay.

[813] And again, that's like a performative aspect of it.

[814] And I get that.

[815] But ultimately, you are at the steering wheel.

[816] It's your stand -up special.

[817] The people sitting there are spectators.

[818] And then ultimately, if you hated it, you'd fucking kill it and record another one.

[819] There's all these backstops where you are in control of how you perform.

[820] you are in control whether you release it, but then it gets released.

[821] And then you might see a headline that all it says is Chelsea Handler breaks down in her stand -up.

[822] For me, that would trigger me. I'd be like, that's incomplete.

[823] Yeah, but I mean, I'm used to that.

[824] I can't hang my hat on what somebody says about me. Of course, they're going to be bad things written about me. Always.

[825] I mean, whatever.

[826] I mean, yeah, I wouldn't like that, but it wouldn't do that much to my sense of security or sense of confidence about putting it out there.

[827] Yeah, I have that.

[828] But for me, I don't have as thick as skin as you.

[829] I will do that.

[830] I haven't been on Twitter in a week because we release an episode where I walked through the whole relapse.

[831] And I was, again, I had control of talking about it and what day we release it and what's it's called.

[832] But then everything posts that, I had to ignore because it does affect me. I hate if I take the time to be real that someone would cannibalize that in a way that I hate.

[833] But then for me, it's just, it's control.

[834] I can't stand if someone else is in charge of how I'm being represented or painted or.

[835] Yeah, like with my stand -up special, obviously I'm in control of that.

[836] I'm going to edit it.

[837] I'm going to give notes on it.

[838] I'm the one who's putting it together and writing the material.

[839] So yes, from that aspect.

[840] But once it's out of my hands and once it's out into the world, there's nothing I can do control the response.

[841] And I've learned that lesson.

[842] And yeah, it's not that I don't, I'm not sensitive like you, but I would say, Yes, I have thicker skin than you from what it sounds like.

[843] I mean, I expect that to a degree.

[844] That's part of the equation for me. Yeah, well, you have been much more controversial your whole career than I think I have.

[845] It's just part of your comedic persona.

[846] It's like baked into that.

[847] Yeah, but you can't please everybody.

[848] I mean, people are going to say things about whatever you do because they're coming from a completely different place or they're in a bad mood or they don't like you and they want people to know about it.

[849] Like, that is part of being in this business is like knowing that people are going to write mean and nasty things about you and you're not supposed to take that seriously or let it affect you in any real way.

[850] I agree with you.

[851] But in the past, so there's one joke in your stand -up that, let's say, you say, I want to give a PSA to white guys who are fearful of women who have dated black men.

[852] And I just want you to know that the beaver retracts, right?

[853] So let's say that caused a shit storm and people are like, you're perpetuating a stereotype that black men have big dicks and the ones that don't feel insecure, blah, blah, you'd easily be able to go, is a fucking joke.

[854] So I could get over that.

[855] It was a fucking joke.

[856] You're getting too serious.

[857] But if they start critiquing you, your vulnerability and your real experience and how you process the loss of your brother, you can't just go like, that's a fucking joke.

[858] But Chelsea's been, her whole career is her.

[859] you're used to being an actor where you have like a veil and so she's had so much experience of being critiqued as her because it's always been her I totally agree I guess what I'm pointing out is as your show has gotten more meaningful to you and more honest and more vulnerable I guess I just wonder if it opens up the door to some fear that you had gotten over previously because you could always just go as a fucking joke yeah yeah no I mean I do really believe like you know it's again about being real You know, I want to be real and really transparent.

[860] I don't want to pretend to be something that I'm not.

[861] And I don't want to ever give airs to that.

[862] Like, and I'm always trying to keep my feet very firmly planted.

[863] And I feel like sharing this kind of stuff is a great way to do that, you know, because it is humbling.

[864] You're putting yourself out there in a very vulnerable way, but that's a great challenge.

[865] And why not?

[866] Yeah.

[867] Okay.

[868] This is a really fucking gross question, but I'm going to own it personally and just I wonder if being honest and vulnerable and there's a release that comes with it and then maybe you tell it once and then maybe you tell it twice and then around the third or fourth time I start feeling pretty grody about it.

[869] Does that make any sense?

[870] Like I don't want this to be shtick.

[871] I don't want this to be one of my funny stories that I shit my pants.

[872] It's up to me to police that.

[873] Yeah, I agree with that because then you're banging on about, you know, whatever you're going through at the moment.

[874] If you're going through therapy, you're telling everybody about third.

[875] I'm like, shut up.

[876] If you're into meditation, everyone's like, oh, God, she's going to tell me to meditate.

[877] You know, you kind of bang on about what you're going through.

[878] But the good thing about all of it, like putting it out there is like, you move on from it and you move on to the next phase.

[879] Yeah.

[880] Okay.

[881] Last thing.

[882] This just occurred to me while I was watching it.

[883] And I, well, first of all, I just love that you basically get to a point where vulnerability is bravery.

[884] It's a Brene Brown thing.

[885] It's a, you know, I was going to say Glennon Doyle.

[886] Yeah, Glenn and Doyle, Bernay Brown.

[887] There's a lot of people, thankfully, that are pointing that out.

[888] And that's always what I think is most brave about people.

[889] But you get to this airplane ride where you now have this new set of tools.

[890] You've practiced being empathetic.

[891] And a gentleman comes to sit next to you on the airplane.

[892] And what happens?

[893] Well, I don't want to give that away because it's the ending of the special.

[894] But I'll just tell you, I could tell that he was a Republican.

[895] He sat down next to me. And I was thought I was cured at this point.

[896] And I was like, this is my opportunity to have a nice, compassionate, empathetic conversation with a Republican who's wearing denim -looking pants, but they weren't denim.

[897] They were cloth.

[898] So it was an affront on multiple fronts.

[899] Okay, so let's just leave it at that.

[900] Yeah, let's leave it at that.

[901] Let's leave it at that.

[902] But I'll tell you, this is the thing that I weirdly thought of while watching it that I don't think I had ever thought of.

[903] I personally think I've made great effort to be empathetic to people on the right.

[904] I understand that they're real issues that people care about.

[905] And I make a real effort to understand why they care about them, I think.

[906] And the thing that occurred to me is the thing that binds us together is the reason we're on either side is that we fear something.

[907] I fear that a woman's rights over her body are going to get taken away.

[908] I fear that our environment is going to collapse and we're all going to die.

[909] I fear that we're going to let people die and suffer on the street without helping them, right?

[910] I'm not attracted to the Democratic Party or the left because of things I necessarily love about them.

[911] I'm actually attracted because of the things I'm afraid of, and they represent the things I'm afraid of.

[912] And then I can extend that to the right, which is they're on the right because they're afraid that they're going to get attacked by militant fundamentalists, that they're going to lose the right to go hunting, that babies are going to be killed.

[913] what's weirdly uniting about us is that we're all just driven by fear.

[914] Yeah, fear and insecurity, for sure.

[915] I think every problem everyone has is rooted out of fear and being insecure, which is the same thing as fear, right?

[916] Yeah, it's easy for me to think that what our difference is that we have the ideological, like kind of north stars we're chasing, but I think it's even more just things that we're very afraid of.

[917] And we're trying to get someone in there that will make sure those fears don't come true.

[918] And again, I'm sympathetic to both of us.

[919] Right, right.

[920] Well, I think Republicans fear people of color and black people being elected to office.

[921] I mean, this is a reaction from having Barack Obama as our president.

[922] So let's not make any mistake about that.

[923] And, you know, Republicans are fearful of losing the power of white supremacy.

[924] That's what the Republican Party is right now.

[925] Well, hold on, no. That's a very, I think, judgmental take on it as opposed to they're very afraid that the world they grew up in and that they liked is going to disappear.

[926] Now, if you started pointing out that a lot of that is built on this, I think it becomes a different conversation, but I can empathize with having grown up in a way that you loved and recognizing that's all about to change dramatically and being very afraid of that because you loved your childhood in your life.

[927] Yeah, but you don't have to be afraid.

[928] You could also be open to it.

[929] You could say, oh, this might change might be good instead of being fearful about losing what you've had your whole life, which is white supremacy.

[930] That's what it is.

[931] It's white people being in charge and then all of a sudden knowing that they're losing their grip and ruling by minority.

[932] You know, they're ruling the majority of people by a minority.

[933] That is what it is today, unfortunately.

[934] You know, we used to be the Democrats that were the white supremacist party and now it's the Republicans.

[935] But that's what you're talking about.

[936] You know, what you're saying is if they're losing something that they've grown up with their whole lives.

[937] It's the power of being a dominant white male over women and over everybody else.

[938] You are the top dog.

[939] And that's what people in the Republican Party are scared of.

[940] Yeah.

[941] And I'm not condoning perpetuating that.

[942] But what I am just trying to look at as a bridge is they're terrified of change.

[943] And I think that's a human fear.

[944] I'm terrified of the change of the environment.

[945] I'm terrified of the change of my daughters having to carry a baby to term that a rapist put in them.

[946] So I'm afraid of change too.

[947] I think that's something we can relate on.

[948] No, that's a good point.

[949] I mean, we are afraid of what could happen with this Supreme Court and if the Republicans win were to win this election.

[950] You're right.

[951] There are real reasons to be fearful on both sides.

[952] I find some, you know, the world is changing.

[953] We're opening up to more people.

[954] That seems to be a hopeful message, you know, and obviously that's my opinion.

[955] But there is a way to look at changes being open -minded to it instead of being so fearful about it.

[956] But when you bring up, you know, your daughter's rights, of course, that's going to implant fear in you.

[957] So I get it.

[958] I mean, yeah, you made a good point.

[959] I make my worst decisions when I'm scared.

[960] I'll just say that.

[961] Yeah, I know.

[962] Tell me about it.

[963] Do their worst thinking when they're scared.

[964] Okay, well, Evolution is on HBO Max.

[965] When does it come out?

[966] October 22nd.

[967] Okay, so nine days before Halloween, that's relevant.

[968] Oh, good math.

[969] That's good math.

[970] Way to close out the interview.

[971] The first time I've impressed you today.

[972] Boy, I tried a lot of tactics.

[973] Who knew that would be the one?

[974] Well, I adore you.

[975] I love how outspoken you are.

[976] I love that you, you know, whether I always agree or don't agree, that you're fighting for the things you're passionate about, and I think it takes an extra level of bravery to be a female.

[977] We have male opinionated guests, and they don't say shit on the comments.

[978] And when you're here or Amy's here or Lena's here, it's undeniable massaging.

[979] It's a shit show.

[980] I know.

[981] I've heard about it.

[982] I've heard.

[983] It's undeniable.

[984] Like, we have male actors.

[985] that are as progressive or whatever.

[986] Sean Penn was on.

[987] People didn't blow that fucking, you know, comment section up.

[988] It's pretty shocking.

[989] It's been illuminating.

[990] Again, one more little layer I've been forced to recognize.

[991] Like, oh, people don't like women having opinions.

[992] A man can have an opinion they disagree with, but it doesn't threaten something in them.

[993] But it's helpful.

[994] It's helpful to have you guys on and see that for other women.

[995] Like, it's not stopping you.

[996] Those mean comments or whatever they are.

[997] not stopping you.

[998] It's not stopping Amy.

[999] It's not stopping Lena and all these awesome people that any woman would want to be in your club.

[1000] So I think it's just hopeful and helpful.

[1001] Yeah.

[1002] And I mean, that's another thing to go back to what you were saying, Dax, about like putting yourself out there and, you know, having people not respond in the way in which you would like, you know, it is a good example to set to continue to hold your head up high, you know, to continue to put out projects that you feel, you that have integrity, that you're saying something, that you have a message, and that you're not just abusing a system that was handed to you and not abusing your platform, you know, really being conscious about it.

[1003] And, you know, I wish I had gotten here 20 years ago, but I didn't.

[1004] I'm here now, and so I can make it count now.

[1005] Yeah, I love you.

[1006] I love you.

[1007] I'm glad you came back on.

[1008] Please come back on 10 more times.

[1009] All right.

[1010] Nice to talk to you.

[1011] Have a great day.

[1012] Bye.

[1013] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1014] And now my favorite.

[1015] part of the show the fact check with my soulmate monica padman boy we just had a what would you call that a snafu systems normal all fucked up but i don't know if snafu applies because systems normal that wasn't systems normal we lost power and we had recorded a good deal of the fact check and we lost it but you know what was really good it was really good but who cares right we can be really good again i don't know this is how it started i'm just going to to say there was a mix of technologies happening for this fact check which is you came over with a stack of yellow pieces of paper and your phone which also has some facts that's right mixed mediums mixed messages mix mediums and messages and i guess i was curious what's with the new plan so on the fact check the lost fact check that was a different oh jesus guy oh no okay on the fact check that we did for bob woodward that we decided not to air because we I thought it was a little too politically contentious.

[1016] Correct.

[1017] So within that, I declared to our armcherry's something that was happening.

[1018] And I feel a little guilty about it, so I have to air it out.

[1019] Yeah.

[1020] Our friend, Laura Moses, has come on armchair expert as an additional editor.

[1021] Uh -huh.

[1022] And we are very grateful for that.

[1023] Yes, she's saving the day.

[1024] And she earmarks facts as she listens.

[1025] That's right.

[1026] And so the facts on my iPhone.

[1027] I found, yes, which again, I mispronounced it last time I found.

[1028] So we just stuck with it.

[1029] So we're going to stick with it now, too.

[1030] So on your I found.

[1031] Those are from Laura.

[1032] Right.

[1033] And I edited Chelsea additionally.

[1034] So I do an additional edit, but it's just much faster now because Lara has done the majority for me. But while I was listening, I wrote some additional effects on some sticky notes.

[1035] So we have mixed mediums.

[1036] Yes.

[1037] Yes, and you basically have a big stack of paper and a digital thing.

[1038] That's right.

[1039] So it's really fun.

[1040] But then in that conversation, I brought up that people are pissed.

[1041] Some people, I don't know what the percentage is.

[1042] Probably 99 % of people are excited about the I found 12.

[1043] Yeah.

[1044] But a lot of people are pissed about the I found 12 because they're comparing it to either the five or the seven.

[1045] Whatever the last one was when Steve Jobs was at the helm came out.

[1046] And apparently this thing has some innovations.

[1047] that already existed from his last iteration.

[1048] And they're also pissed, understandably so.

[1049] Again, I have no position on the I found.

[1050] Yeah, because you have a Samsung.

[1051] I use a Samsung.

[1052] Samson.

[1053] 10 that I think is technologically advanced enough for me. But at any rate, apparently they don't come now with a charger.

[1054] They don't come with headphones and they don't come with a charger.

[1055] I mean, they're going to get to the point where there's just no ports.

[1056] And you can't hold anything up to it.

[1057] Well, there is a port.

[1058] You just have to buy the charger, I assume.

[1059] Now you've got to buy the charger, but I'm saying next stuff.

[1060] is probably just no ports.

[1061] You can't plug anything into it.

[1062] I don't know.

[1063] I'm guessing now.

[1064] I don't want to get sued by Apple.

[1065] And I'm a fan.

[1066] Look, I use a Mac computer.

[1067] Oh, look at my beautiful Mac computer just steps away from us.

[1068] In fact, we had to go to that to understand if we had lost the fact check or not, which we did.

[1069] And I also have an I packs, my son, who I love.

[1070] Yeah, you can't speak ill of your sons.

[1071] And I love Apple.

[1072] I love Apple TV.

[1073] Anywho, all that to say, we were talking about high tech stuff.

[1074] That's right.

[1075] And then I wanted to say that Delta, who's given us a ton of stuff, I would have assumed prior to getting this new faucet, that faucet technology was over.

[1076] Exactly.

[1077] Because why wouldn't it be over, right?

[1078] What do you do?

[1079] You pull a handle and you get either cold or warm or hot water, not Delta.

[1080] They were like, fuck that.

[1081] No, we're going to give you something called Touch 2 .0, which our faucet now has.

[1082] And let me just air out a grievance.

[1083] My number one complaint about cooking steaks.

[1084] Which you do a lot.

[1085] I do quite often.

[1086] And I've kind of perfected it.

[1087] Would you agree?

[1088] I would.

[1089] They're really good.

[1090] Thank you so much.

[1091] I'd like to put the dry rub directly on the meat and I massage it.

[1092] It's part of your technique.

[1093] It is.

[1094] It's proprietary.

[1095] And I get presumably E. coli and God knows what other bacteria on my fingers.

[1096] Bactoria.

[1097] Bactoria.

[1098] And I don't want to then touch the faucet and get it all over the handle.

[1099] I have this issue with chicken as well.

[1100] I think a lot of people do.

[1101] So guess what the Delta Foset 2 .0 technology.

[1102] allows.

[1103] I just hit it with my elbow.

[1104] Any touch will set this thing off and I can have a preset temperature.

[1105] That's amazing.

[1106] So I can have my grimy gross fingers and hands.

[1107] I bump it with my elbow.

[1108] It turns on now I can just wash without touching anything.

[1109] That is, they've thought about what the consumer really does need.

[1110] Yes.

[1111] Because I hate that too because then what you have to do is touch it, wash your hands very thoroughly.

[1112] Then you take your sponge and wash the handle with soap.

[1113] Then I always get nervous the sponge has equal.

[1114] I mean, it's a whole thing.

[1115] It's a shit show.

[1116] And I have resigned to the fact that that's just how it goes when you make me. But now I'm realizing, no, that doesn't have to be my lot in life.

[1117] I'm going to blow your mind now.

[1118] No. Yes.

[1119] It also, this faucet also has voice IQ technology.

[1120] So it talks to your other home devices that are controlled by voice.

[1121] What?

[1122] Let me tell you what you can do.

[1123] I swear to God, this is true.

[1124] You can fill up.

[1125] like your dog's water bowl, right?

[1126] And it'll fill it the exact amount.

[1127] Or you can even say like pour one cup of water.

[1128] Oh my God.

[1129] And it pour.

[1130] So you don't even have to measure anymore because the device has metered dispensing.

[1131] That's amazing.

[1132] You understand what I'm saying?

[1133] Meter dispensing.

[1134] It can dispense an exact amount of liquid.

[1135] That's unbelievable.

[1136] And you can just say, Delta, pour me a cup of water.

[1137] Make me some pasta.

[1138] Well, that's what I'm saying.

[1139] I bet it's one or two updates away.

[1140] from going, Delta, make me macaroni and cheese.

[1141] Oh, my God.

[1142] This is amazing.

[1143] I can't wait to put this in my house.

[1144] Yeah, your new house?

[1145] Yes.

[1146] You're going to be able to just tell it to do whatever you want.

[1147] Oh, my God.

[1148] I love telling people and things to do what I want.

[1149] Listen, I would be talking about this thing had I not been gifted it by Delta.

[1150] I really would.

[1151] They are a sponsor.

[1152] We should say, but who cares?

[1153] I know.

[1154] I got now a faucet in my bathroom that I can pull out and spray all the beard hair down.

[1155] Yeah.

[1156] And now I can just say, Delta, make me macaroni and cheese.

[1157] That's a miss. that you can't really say at that yet, but I do foresee that.

[1158] But you can tell it to pour you a cup of water.

[1159] It's incredible.

[1160] That's amazing.

[1161] To touch it with your grimy bacteria hands.

[1162] Sticky COVID hands.

[1163] I'm just impressed that their engineers didn't settle.

[1164] They're not done.

[1165] I know I love that.

[1166] Me too.

[1167] It gives me faith about where we're going.

[1168] Me too.

[1169] Speaking about where we're going, we've now finished rabbit hole, both of us.

[1170] Ooh, dang.

[1171] The New York Times podcast.

[1172] We talked about it a couple weeks ago.

[1173] We had only at that point heard about the young man who was led to, a very militant, extreme corner of the internet.

[1174] And all of a sudden, he's like, wait, I don't even have these beliefs.

[1175] Yeah.

[1176] Then came PewDie Pie.

[1177] PewDie Pie.

[1178] PewDie Pie.

[1179] And I didn't know anything about PewDie Pie.

[1180] It made me feel so old.

[1181] And I was telling you this, I knew, but I didn't know why I knew it.

[1182] Like, I knew Pewty Pie.

[1183] And I knew that I knew, I just knew that word.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] But I didn't know anything about what it represented, which is also.

[1186] Man, talk about something that's hit the zeit guys where you know it in your brain, but you have no idea why.

[1187] And, you know, I think at this point, he has 100 million followers.

[1188] So clearly we're in the minority to not be up to date on PewDiePy.

[1189] So that was its own fascinating thing.

[1190] And then the last two episodes hit us right where, right in the sweet spot for us.

[1191] Q. Anon.

[1192] Man, the New York Times podcast are fucking unbelievable.

[1193] They really are.

[1194] They're so good.

[1195] They are so good at the way they drop information and the way I think they show both sides and they really do get into the humanity of what is going on.

[1196] Yes.

[1197] That and look, they're very open about the fact that it's on the left too.

[1198] Like the left is leading people into insane places and the rights leads.

[1199] So I pre it's like definitely.

[1200] I think when I posted that people should check out rabbit hole I got not not a lot.

[1201] Just one or two is like New York Times pass.

[1202] And like, that's like saying encyclopedia past.

[1203] It is.

[1204] That's bullshit.

[1205] That is a rigorously fact -checked institution.

[1206] Of journalism.

[1207] And when they get it wrong, they have to correct it, which they do.

[1208] Yeah.

[1209] So I don't know.

[1210] And podcasts, you know, there's more leeway, obviously, like ours, to tell a human story.

[1211] And they really do here.

[1212] And I got so scared.

[1213] They're not a sponsor.

[1214] No, they're not.

[1215] I got nervous because, yeah, the last two episodes were about Q. on and one lady who got kind of sucked in and by the way it all starts with like really good frustration which is the banking system yep and the banking bailout i didn't realize that a lot of this stuff was driven by the 2008 bailout of the financial system yeah i do i want to point out that i don't like a people should be pissed about that because those banks were fucking absolutely reckless and they caused the subprime mortgage crisis that's true but when the government bails them out, they're not bailing them out per se.

[1216] They're bailing us out.

[1217] That's right.

[1218] Anyone who might have a 401k, anyone who has money in Bank of America or any of these banks and they don't want to run on the bank so that all your savings are gone.

[1219] Like, it's not really us and them as much as people feel like it is.

[1220] I could not agree more.

[1221] Like if you have money in a bank, you hope that bank is getting bailed out.

[1222] Yes, that the government shores it up before it collapses like Bear Stearns are the ones that were allowed to collapse.

[1223] Those people just lost everything.

[1224] Yeah.

[1225] And I understand the frustration with the system that it could even happen that they did that.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] The thing to be pissed about is that the banks were super fucking irresponsible.

[1228] Exactly.

[1229] And then they just started.

[1230] That is, that's worth getting pissed off about it.

[1231] Of course.

[1232] But that's why we need regulation.

[1233] Exactly.

[1234] Yes.

[1235] But I do understand like someone else makes a financial error in their real life, an individual.

[1236] Yeah.

[1237] And they don't get helped.

[1238] Like they got swindled by the bank and talked into remorgeting or buying some house they couldn't afford.

[1239] Yeah.

[1240] And then they don't get helped.

[1241] So, yeah, I'd be pissed about that.

[1242] Yeah, me too.

[1243] And that's how a lot of people first started getting just disgruntled in general with government.

[1244] It led them to believe, like, yeah, there's just this big conspiracy happening to save the elite.

[1245] And that's sort of what led to this.

[1246] But the woman who they focus on, you know, she's like older.

[1247] And her kids were like grown or something.

[1248] And she just kind of like started to spend time on YouTube.

[1249] And that's my mom.

[1250] Oh, really?

[1251] Now she's on YouTube.

[1252] She's on YouTube all the time watching makeup videos.

[1253] Oh, she is.

[1254] That's her interest.

[1255] She really likes watching makeup videos.

[1256] Oh, wow.

[1257] And I started to think like, oh, my God, what if there's just like a QAnon thing on the side?

[1258] Uh -huh.

[1259] Recommended video.

[1260] Exactly.

[1261] I mean, that could happen.

[1262] Sure.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] I really hope it doesn't.

[1265] I thought I need to call her and just say like, hey, beware when you're looking at these makeup videos.

[1266] Like, they could slip some in.

[1267] Well, just beware when you're watching.

[1268] You too, period.

[1269] Also, makeup videos, because they could tell you to do some bad makeup.

[1270] Yeah, they could.

[1271] They could leave you a stray.

[1272] Like a fucking man drill.

[1273] That's right.

[1274] What's that?

[1275] It's a primate with a big colorful face.

[1276] Oh, what?

[1277] Yeah, they're huge drills.

[1278] They're awesome.

[1279] Oh.

[1280] Yeah.

[1281] I like that.

[1282] You've seen them.

[1283] They've got the long snout and it's really colorful blue and red.

[1284] I am now.

[1285] Yeah.

[1286] Wow.

[1287] Yeah.

[1288] The beautiful.

[1289] How did they become that?

[1290] That's amazing.

[1291] Well, that's the boys look like that.

[1292] to demonstrate that they're physically fit enough to attract predators and still survive.

[1293] This is a...

[1294] That's kind of like the peacock.

[1295] Yeah, same shit.

[1296] Same situation.

[1297] Different day.

[1298] Another animal trying to get some ass.

[1299] God.

[1300] I just think when I was listening to it, I felt this is ISIS.

[1301] This is what they do.

[1302] They recruit, people who want community, who feel disenfranchised, who feel disenfranchised, Who, let's even say, are disenfranchised.

[1303] Yes.

[1304] And they place an umbrella of greater good above it.

[1305] Like they say, you're doing this because the institutions need to come down.

[1306] The truth needs to come out.

[1307] Everyone believes the truth should be out.

[1308] So, yeah, there's this grand sort of moral high ground they're placing on it, which is exactly what they do in ISIS with religion.

[1309] It's the same thing.

[1310] Yeah, that the once pure religion, has been watered down and bastardized and infected with all these different.

[1311] And the West is the cause.

[1312] So it's, you know, I don't see a difference there.

[1313] No, yeah, yeah.

[1314] We're so quick to be like, those guys and terrorism.

[1315] And it's like, it's happening here.

[1316] Yeah.

[1317] Well, I mean, the outcome of ISIS has been much worse of the outcome of Q &A so far.

[1318] Oof.

[1319] Oh, so good.

[1320] It's really good.

[1321] I recommend.

[1322] Me too.

[1323] Strong recommendation.

[1324] Strong recommendation.

[1325] Can I grab?

[1326] I got to grab like a cracker or something.

[1327] I'm feeling a little shaking.

[1328] So to update everyone, we took another little break because Dax got hungry.

[1329] He needed a little snack.

[1330] And my house doesn't have a lot of good food.

[1331] So there was a box of cereal but no milk.

[1332] So he's added water to the cereal.

[1333] And that's where we're at.

[1334] You know you make a good cereal when you can have it with water.

[1335] That's true.

[1336] This is life cereal.

[1337] Yeah, but I got to say, not to bring it back to our sponsors, but this is a result of me running out of the Bob's Red Mill bars.

[1338] Normally, I grab a couple when I come over here, and I was out.

[1339] Well, I need to have some here.

[1340] Mm -hmm, that would be great.

[1341] Okay, fackies.

[1342] So fackies.

[1343] Chels, we love her.

[1344] We love her.

[1345] She's, and when I was listening back, I was just like, God, do I respect this person?

[1346] Mm -hmm.

[1347] I really, really do.

[1348] She just knows there's going to be some backlash to things she says.

[1349] it's not going to get in the way of her saying what she believes.

[1350] That's right.

[1351] And she also, she's the one who recommended Isabel.

[1352] We interviewed her like four days before Isabel.

[1353] Well, also, I mean, just because I want to be like her, I had already reached out to Isabel before she said it.

[1354] Oh, okay.

[1355] Which I think I say in the interview, I say, we're trying to get her.

[1356] Oh, right.

[1357] But in fact, obviously, Isabel has already come out before this.

[1358] And she was unbelievable.

[1359] If you haven't listened to that one, please do.

[1360] Yeah, really good, really good.

[1361] I love her.

[1362] And then I, since I've started reading her book, and it's incredible.

[1363] Okay, so you were on Chelsea's show to promote a movie, and you said, I was in it with my girlfriend.

[1364] I assume you were talking about Kristen.

[1365] And that was Kristen, right?

[1366] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1367] Okay, so you talked about how Aaron used to jerk off in a restaurant called Caboodles.

[1368] You weren't sure if it still existed.

[1369] Oh.

[1370] There is a Caboodles Cafe, but that's an act.

[1371] Acron, New York.

[1372] Oh, well, no, this was, that's not where we were.

[1373] Yeah, Troy, Michigan.

[1374] Is it Caboodles with a K or C?

[1375] That's a great question.

[1376] I'll ask Aaron while we plod through.

[1377] Maybe he can give us a. I put Caboodle's Restaurant, Michigan, nothing came up, but I spelled it with a K. That's so Georgia of you.

[1378] You're right.

[1379] So, TBD on whether Caboodles is.

[1380] Yeah, I bet Aaron will respond, I'm sure.

[1381] I hope it's not, because we spoke very ill about it.

[1382] Yeah, we could probably get, I don't know.

[1383] Could you get sued?

[1384] No, it's a fact.

[1385] Aaron's a jerk off at Caboodles.

[1386] I don't know.

[1387] I don't think.

[1388] Do you think they would sue?

[1389] They come after him personally.

[1390] Well, we said it was disgusting in there.

[1391] Oh, that in that, well, let me clear that up because I don't know what it's like in there.

[1392] I've never been inside of Caboodles.

[1393] I just, just driving by looking at it, it's not a place I'd want to jerk off.

[1394] Oh, okay.

[1395] Or any public bathroom, really, for that matter.

[1396] Right.

[1397] No, that's not true.

[1398] like certain hotels have really nice bathrooms in the lobby with like big full stalls where they have the full door not like a sure it closes all the way locks yeah you feel like you're in a bedroom with a toilet in it but there are people right next to you that's fine as long as that's locked and they can't peek through any of the cracks so I have a question about um upscale toilets jerking off in public upscale bathrooms yeah you have to be quiet yes of course so does that get in the way does that hinder under the pleasure level?

[1399] No, I don't believe I'm making all that much noise when I'm doing it.

[1400] Now, I could be wrong because I am in the heat of it, right?

[1401] I'm in the fog of war, so maybe I'm not aware of how much noise I'm making.

[1402] But in general, I don't think I'm making any noise.

[1403] It's not like I'm using like Vaseline intensive care or like a lotion.

[1404] I'm saying you're having to suppress a little bit when you're in a public space.

[1405] So does that get in the way of the pleasure level?

[1406] Oh, no, no, no, no, yeah.

[1407] Yeah, well, for me, I can't speak for everyone.

[1408] For me, you know, you're very much in your mind at that moment.

[1409] Yeah.

[1410] I'm not like taking in my surroundings at all.

[1411] I'm like having whatever fantasy I'm having.

[1412] But you also have to monitor the fact that you're not alone, I guess, is what I'm saying.

[1413] Well, but you don't.

[1414] You just close the door to that in your mind, which is like, it's locked.

[1415] That's that.

[1416] And there's no reason to think about anything around you.

[1417] even if you heard a fight breakout, you could still just continue on.

[1418] I think this is also fundamentally a difference with men and women.

[1419] Like, I don't think women can do that.

[1420] I don't, well, look, again, these are all generalizations.

[1421] Yeah, it's best just to say, like, I couldn't do that.

[1422] Okay, I don't think I could do it in a way where, like, I'm completely shut off from the rest of the world.

[1423] If I'm in a public bathroom and someone next to me, like, makes a poop.

[1424] loop sound.

[1425] I'm going to come out of my fantasy.

[1426] Okay.

[1427] Well, now that's a, that's a different question.

[1428] Like, what if I heard a big explosion while I was in my fantasy?

[1429] Right.

[1430] I would probably be like, well.

[1431] When you incorporate it?

[1432] It would be a couple steps backwards.

[1433] I'd have to like regain momentum.

[1434] Okay.

[1435] But I will just say this as a counterpoint.

[1436] I feel more vulnerable defecating than I do masturbating.

[1437] Like, let's put it this way.

[1438] Let's say a mid defecation and a man with a knife runs into of the stall versus I'm jerking off.

[1439] I like my odds a lot more when I'm jerking off.

[1440] I can't stand up mid evacuation.

[1441] I'm so vulnerable at that point.

[1442] I wouldn't want to be in a fight with out cleaning up first.

[1443] But if I just have a boner and I'm fighting a guy, that's preferred to.

[1444] Oh, wow.

[1445] Yeah.

[1446] Does that make sense?

[1447] I'm just worried, are you cleaning up well?

[1448] Of course.

[1449] That's the part that is so irresponsible for people to do this.

[1450] But you know me, I clean up.

[1451] other people's pubic care toilet paper, if you recall from our fact check that one time.

[1452] I'm actually, I think, pretty ethical when I go into a public bathroom.

[1453] Okay, it's just, it just makes people scared like me when I hear the story, like, oh, my God.

[1454] There's semen places.

[1455] Right.

[1456] Yeah.

[1457] And, you know, maybe there is.

[1458] Well, I'm just saying I can't speak for how other people handle their business, but I'm very respectful, I think, of the shared space.

[1459] I am also this is I don't know how many times this has happened in my life I'm 45 but I've only cranked it in a public bathroom maybe 20 times whoa okay that's not a ton it's not like I do it even once a year I thought you were going to say five oh no well no I'm not going to say five I've been actively masturbating for 30 let's see I'm 45 so 33 years Yeah.

[1460] It's a small percentage.

[1461] We're different.

[1462] Also, I do think in general, I'll stand by this stereotype.

[1463] You know, it's easier for men to reach, achieve orgasm than women.

[1464] Sure.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] So that also, I think, explains how guys can do it in the toilet.

[1467] Right.

[1468] But it's just like for me. Yeah, yeah.

[1469] There's just never been a moment where it's like, I'm bored.

[1470] So, and I'm at, Caboodles and I'm just going to go into the bathroom now like well let's just be clear he wasn't at Caboodle's board that's right let's call him really quick do I have the name of the restaurant wrong the one right by shows and shoots an Andesco court in John R what was that restaurant yeah okay well first of all you did use a jerk off in there a bit right sure yeah sure I'm sure I will.

[1471] And you don't happen to remember how it was spelled, do you?

[1472] Because we can't seem to find it on the internet.

[1473] Oh, I don't have a clue.

[1474] Was it with a C or a K?

[1475] I don't even know why I know it's called Caboodles.

[1476] I would have picked the, I would have picked K, I guess.

[1477] Thank you.

[1478] That's what Monica did.

[1479] No. I hope not, because we talked about that it was filthy in there and that I was impressed that you could reach climax.

[1480] Max.

[1481] I'm in Home Depot and I'm like and then I started thinking about all the places I jack off like I'm in Home Depot so many There's so many fucking men in there Oh, absolutely While we have you There's no way you would remember But can you think of one Like the worst place you've jerked off?

[1482] Well Home Depot was a big spot That was a regular thing.

[1483] Port -a -potty, for sure.

[1484] I'm flushing port -a -pottie, like, five times.

[1485] That was all right.

[1486] Well, we love you, and I just wanted to hear that update.

[1487] All right, talk to you.

[1488] Bye.

[1489] Okay, so I don't know that that got us any closer to the truth, but it is reassuring that he thinks it was caboodles as well.

[1490] We're going to hope it's closed.

[1491] We really do hope and pray.

[1492] Although the food's outstanding if it's still open.

[1493] Yeah, it's a clean, tasty establishment.

[1494] I think it's a Michelin Star restaurant.

[1495] Okay.

[1496] Oh, wow.

[1497] They just sped off on their Harley.

[1498] Well, there's many.

[1499] Well, you know what that is?

[1500] I can tell you what that is.

[1501] That's a motor scooter club.

[1502] Really?

[1503] Yeah, those were all like VESPA.

[1504] Do you ever think of your motorcycle as a horse, a motor horse?

[1505] Boy.

[1506] I think that's what it is.

[1507] A little bit, yeah, there are moments when I'm coming out of a turn and I'm getting back in the saddle because you call it a saddle.

[1508] Right.

[1509] And, yeah, I feel like the one I've seen in Westerns when they're riding the hell out of that horse and they're all over the place.

[1510] Yeah, I've had that feeling.

[1511] We have a friend who's on a horse trip right now and she said that there was a scare and a woman got thrown.

[1512] and I immediately thought of you because I know you don't like horses.

[1513] Well, I just think it's very funny that people who are so anti -motorcycles might ride horses.

[1514] Horses are just so much more unpredictable and dangerous.

[1515] I know way more people that have got paralyzed from horse accidents than motorcycle accidents.

[1516] But in general, you are not a fan of horses.

[1517] No, I used to like them, but yeah, I had two bad experiences in a row.

[1518] And yeah, I'm like, okay, there's no brake pedal on the horse.

[1519] Well, right.

[1520] So I just think it's funny that you're like, no, horses are dangerous, but that you ride a motorized horse.

[1521] That's right.

[1522] Motorized horse.

[1523] Yeah, you do.

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] I actually ride 200 motorized horses.

[1526] Yeah, exactly.

[1527] Because there's 200 horsepower in the motorized horse.

[1528] Mm -hmm.

[1529] Okay.

[1530] So you said you could handle yourself on drugs.

[1531] Mm -hmm.

[1532] Yeah.

[1533] And what you're saying is you just didn't get out of control.

[1534] Yeah, I'll tell you what I'm saying.

[1535] Like my friend Leslie and I were at Arklight one time.

[1536] we came out and there was this guy who he clearly was out of control.

[1537] Like he didn't know where he was at.

[1538] He was very confused.

[1539] So we started talking to him and we're both ex -drug addicts.

[1540] So we'd know what to do.

[1541] And it was quickly figured out that he was on a lot of mushrooms and he didn't know where his friends were or whatever.

[1542] And he said, can you call your friends?

[1543] And he kept pulling his wallet out of his back pocket and opening it like a phone and holding it to his ear.

[1544] And he literally thought he was calling somebody.

[1545] And I mean, this guy was of.

[1546] A mess.

[1547] Thank God people are kind in L .A. because what a sitting duckie was.

[1548] Anyone could have done anything they wanted to this guy.

[1549] I've never been in that state.

[1550] Sure.

[1551] That's what I'm saying.

[1552] I can always get to where I'm going.

[1553] I don't lose my friends.

[1554] I don't lose my phone.

[1555] I don't wake up somewhere.

[1556] I don't know where I'm at.

[1557] Right.

[1558] In that way, I have handled my shit.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] And that's true.

[1561] To a degree.

[1562] But you also can't handle yourself on drugs.

[1563] But some people take drugs and they start crying.

[1564] They start.

[1565] like panicking they start that that's what we're talking about it's just like we don't lose our composure right drugs okay and she said i could handle opioids just fine oh yeah yeah um i didn't fact check and i didn't try any uh -huh but i i never had them you've never had viking in or something i have once for um oral surgery yes and i hated it okay so i'm gonna have to fact check her on that i don't think i'm i would be able to handle them just fine okay we talk a little bit about balding in testosterone.

[1566] That was interesting.

[1567] That actually the testosterone makes you bald.

[1568] Yes.

[1569] D .H .T. specifically.

[1570] That's counterintuitive.

[1571] I would think you'd have more hair growth with more testosterone.

[1572] Well, ironically, you do.

[1573] You have more body hair growth.

[1574] So guys with really high testosterone levels have more body hair.

[1575] But there's different bits of testosterone and I believe it's pronounced detrohydrohydroxy testosterone.

[1576] D .HT is the actual chemical that attacks the root of your head in male pattern baldness specifically.

[1577] It doesn't attack your follicles in your body hair or your beard.

[1578] And that's just a very evolutionary thing so that we can get more vitamin D on the top of your head.

[1579] Sure.

[1580] But you could have low testosterone levels, still have malpattern bald, because everyone has dh t right and so if you have the gene for mal pattern baldness you're going to send dh t to those follicles in front yeah and i'm out on the limb a little bit but pretty much this is roughly what goes on there's probably some geneticist going no the hair follicle itself is what's carrying the gene and it's more susceptible to dh t and the rest of yeah so it's either that those follicles are designed to be susceptible to dh t and that's why they fall out or the dhc specifically targets those and they fall out either or when you're taking like propitia or finesteride what it's doing is blocking dht from going to your scalp and there's topical versions of that too again all of them are available on four hymns for hymns .com for hymns .com on your iPhone on your i fan that's all all right i love you love you follow armchair expert on the wondry app Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts.

[1581] You can listen to every episode of Armchair expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple podcasts.

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