264 - Goodbye, Sloppy Joe!

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome.

[2] My favorite murder.

[3] That's Georgia Hartstark.

[4] Thank you.

[5] That's Karen Kielgarev.

[6] Thank you.

[7] And everyone.

[8] Everybody, get ready.

[9] We're going to do this thing.

[10] We're going to rock down to Electric Avenue, ladies and gentlemen.

[11] You know it.

[12] Wouldn't that be amazing?

[13] And then we introduced Eddie Grant as our new third co -host.

[14] You know what song?

[15] I had it.

[16] I think I was happy the other day, which was like a really weird.

[17] I text you.

[18] It was like a, like a actual, oh, I suddenly realized I'm happy because I walked upstairs and like, and put on, like, Vince and I will surprise each other with songs a lot because we have the speaker in the living room.

[19] So like anytime he used to come home from a bar or something before he'd walk in the door, he'd put on wet ass pussy, which was so I'd start to hear the beat.

[20] And then I'd be like, oh, this is home with some holes.

[21] It's first scared of ever -loving shit out of me because it's something to be the So I put on, I must have been in a good mood because I put on the Austin Powers theme song.

[22] Oh my God.

[23] And I was like, whoa, I'm happy.

[24] Then you got those, the beach air, it cleaned you out.

[25] What?

[26] You had some, you went to the beach.

[27] You had some time at the beach.

[28] The beach was lovely.

[29] I highly recommend if there's a body of water, you can go sit at, it's a really nice mind douche, I guess.

[30] call it.

[31] I mean, if you have to.

[32] You won't say you can.

[33] It's your right.

[34] It's your right as an American.

[35] Yeah.

[36] I feel like optimistic.

[37] Nice.

[38] Now back away from that.

[39] Don't touch it.

[40] Don't look at it too much.

[41] Let it be.

[42] Don't listen to a sad podcast about optimism.

[43] No, do that.

[44] I mean, don't, you know, these things come and go like clouds in the sky.

[45] Yeah.

[46] It all comes and goes.

[47] So long that I noticed it and was like, what is this?

[48] Well, let's celebrate it then.

[49] That's good.

[50] That's good.

[51] Actually, can I read you?

[52] I'll show you.

[53] There's a tissue box in this room and the other day I was having therapy in here and I didn't have a piece of paper because she'll say these like profound things and I'll be like, hold on, I need to write that down.

[54] So on this tissue box it says pain is inevitable, suffering is optional.

[55] Mm -hmm.

[56] Wasn't that?

[57] Yes.

[58] That's not her quote, but that's like a. that's our new line of tissues we're going to take these i know that's that's a funny thing is i'm overtly stealing from my therapist constantly sure but she's stealing it from someone else well yeah i don't know if they call it stealing right oh right right right because they're not putting it anywhere except for into your brain there but but i do love those like that kind of thing where it takes a long time to understand that your thoughts are just that Just thoughts.

[59] And they're coming from a place.

[60] And it might not be the place that they should be coming from and that are healthy to come from.

[61] Totally.

[62] They're just, they are what they are.

[63] Whether you can trust them or not, it's the kind of, there was a, we had, you were there for it.

[64] We had a meeting a couple days ago that really stressed me out and made, I was mad.

[65] So when I left that call and walked out to the front room to finally be done, done with the back -to -back Zoom calls for the day.

[66] I'm not complaining.

[67] I lay it down and could feel the churn.

[68] And that's my habit.

[69] And that's how I was, that's kind of like, um, having worked for years in kind of like high pressure in me, daily television is very high pressure.

[70] And you either get it done or you don't at the end of the day.

[71] And then you sit in it.

[72] Your failure.

[73] You can't let go.

[74] It's like, yeah.

[75] And then the next day you have to take what you fucked up and learn and do it better the next day.

[76] And there's lots of that kind of like the way I learned it in the beginning, maybe not the healthiest way, is an old habit that I'm trying to let go of, which is whatever you feel about that, you can go grab your own hand and walk yourself back to neutral.

[77] So I don't have to sit on the couch and like and stew and churn and practice speeches.

[78] I can just watch TV.

[79] I can go like, well, we'll take care of that tomorrow because everybody knows what they're doing and we can all talk about it again.

[80] It's the idea that, and it's just very much my personality, but it's like, if I sit here and stew and do blah, blah, blah, that's going to get me whatever like result I want.

[81] Yeah, you'll figure it out.

[82] Yeah, it's like a math problem.

[83] If you suffer through, you know, whatever.

[84] And I had, so I just laying there on the couch, I was like, I don't know if I can do that, though.

[85] It was like I was having.

[86] full conversation with myself in my head.

[87] And then I was like, well, I'm just trying.

[88] So what happened?

[89] And then so I just was like, okay, let's just go to neutral.

[90] And then I was like, oh, yeah.

[91] Oh, I can do this.

[92] Yeah, that's easy.

[93] And then I just fully enjoyed a TV show.

[94] Nice.

[95] Was fully fine.

[96] And then, of course, the other people on every other end of the thing came back around and it wasn't the end of the story.

[97] It's like part of that, when we've talked about this all the time, like anxiety issues is now it's over.

[98] That's the end of the story.

[99] This whole thing blew up or whatever your fear is.

[100] I see no way that this can be fixed.

[101] I see no way that this can be.

[102] Yeah.

[103] And so there I have to if so I have to continue to talk about it, text about it, email about it, whatever like do my machinations to change it when it's like it could what if somebody else tries to change?

[104] Totally.

[105] And what if tomorrow exist?

[106] It could be picked back up and taken care of then.

[107] Yeah.

[108] Yeah.

[109] that's neutrality give it a world neutrality what are you reading watching listening to thinking about wait before we i think we have to do a couple circlebacks let's do a circle back section it's just the people have been letting us know you can pretty much get seized candy in many places across america many airports many and then i think it's newer some places but it certainly is not no we were wrong about that and can i say that seized candy reached out to us on Instagram and is sending the exactly right team.

[110] I don't know how much.

[111] I can't wait.

[112] I feel like we need to do an unboxing.

[113] Oh, shit.

[114] I felt like I got a message from a celebrity.

[115] Mary C was sitting in front of her fireplace in her rocking chair.

[116] Well, first of all, I'm there if I had on Instagram.

[117] It's me. Mary C. Hey, it's the real Mary C. The candy influencer.

[118] Oh, yeah.

[119] That place is legendary.

[120] I'll drive it over.

[121] as soon as it comes.

[122] Let's have a serious unboxing party.

[123] So, yeah, that's one thing.

[124] Everyone let us know.

[125] Thank you.

[126] We love follow -ups, guys.

[127] We love follow -ups.

[128] We love hearing.

[129] I definitely butchered the name of something in a, the name.

[130] Oh, it was in the minisode when I was doing the story that took place where Letter Kenny.

[131] Where Letter Kenny takes place.

[132] He got that completely wrong and I won't try it again because I'll just get it wrong again.

[133] There were people that were, I read some tweets where people, there was no criticism and there was no correction.

[134] People were just like, I love these attempts at this name.

[135] It was just people being like, no one told me how to say it.

[136] They were just like, that made me happy hearing you try to say that.

[137] So I appreciate that we've come to that place on this podcast.

[138] Yeah, where people are like, we can enjoy the mistake for what it is as opposed to.

[139] Okay, but we've got a couple of those on this follow up thing.

[140] But this first one I found, someone named Brandon Dick said to me on Twitter, so what did Jim say about the whole tossing flour on a grease fire?

[141] He said, I smell a correction corner coming up.

[142] Wait, no, that's my kitchen on fire.

[143] Oh, is it D I C -K, D -I -X?

[144] D -I -C -S.

[145] That's a brilliant.

[146] That is a, because on the minisode on Monday, there was a fight, Kitchen on Fire story.

[147] And Karen and I just named a bunch of shit.

[148] that you could maybe throw on a grease fire and one of them was flour and thank God we're correcting that now.

[149] Well, so I called Jim.

[150] Okay.

[151] And he confirmed that we were both right, baking soda or flour.

[152] He said anything that will smother it, not water.

[153] Okay.

[154] And then he goes, I think that's the way you'd do it.

[155] I go, dad, what do you mean?

[156] He were a fireman for like 40 years.

[157] Like how?

[158] weren't you a captain?

[159] Like, aren't you supposed to?

[160] And then he goes, what you do is you call 911.

[161] And he goes, and then someone calls CPS on that grandpa.

[162] Oh, shit.

[163] And then he goes, he said, well, if you're real, I go, dad, it was the grease fire, but then the wall behind the oven.

[164] And he goes, well, if you're real young and spry, you grab that pan and run out the back door.

[165] I go, yeah, that's what the grandpa did.

[166] And he burned his arm.

[167] And then I basically said it was because the grandpa was babysitting and they went down to the corner to the gas station.

[168] And then he went to another gas station to find bread.

[169] And he goes, my dad loves to do stuff like this.

[170] Like my dad started watching The Simpsons literally 22 years after it premiered on TV.

[171] Like he was this even watching that.

[172] He loves the Simpsons.

[173] And he goes, he goes, he went down to a, what's the beer home or something?

[174] Simpson drinks at.

[175] And I said, Moes.

[176] And he goes, right.

[177] And what's the, what's that beer, Homer Simpson drinks?

[178] And he goes, I go duff.

[179] And he goes, yeah.

[180] So, and then he basically has to go back and then retail the joke.

[181] Like, he knew both references.

[182] And he's like, he went down to Moes and drank a duff.

[183] Oh, my God.

[184] He's so right.

[185] Yeah.

[186] And then at the very end, I was like, I was writing it down and laughing.

[187] And then he goes, what are you asking me this for?

[188] And I said, oh, because George and I started talking about it on the podcast, but we don't, we weren't.

[189] We weren't.

[190] Sure.

[191] And he goes, quit bringing me into that podcast.

[192] And I go, it's too late to have the people love Home Jim.

[193] Oh, my Home Jim.

[194] He acted all mad about it, but he's, I can tell he's not.

[195] So thank you, Brandon, for circling back.

[196] But it turns out no correction corner needed because you and I, for perhaps the first time in five years, we're both right.

[197] But also truly wrong.

[198] Don't put flour on a grease fire.

[199] No, no. You do.

[200] Not flour.

[201] I thought it was baking soda.

[202] but not flour.

[203] Both.

[204] Anything that will smother the flame.

[205] You have to kill the oxygen.

[206] Flower doesn't have any kind of flaming anything.

[207] What if it's asbestos flour?

[208] Then do we have a problem?

[209] If you've made flour out of the tops of matchsticks, then do not throw that flower onto the...

[210] Great.

[211] Anything that will douse the flame and kill the oxygen.

[212] Okay.

[213] But he said once the wall is involved...

[214] Yeah.

[215] get out of the house.

[216] I wonder if a simple fire extinguisher would work because I actually have those in like every part of my house, which is I think everyone should do.

[217] Yes, they should.

[218] But you know what I've heard?

[219] Do it.

[220] Have them there and go through and pull those plastic.

[221] There's a plastic ring that's always on them for safety.

[222] And at some point in your life, cut the plastic ring off so that if something happens, you can pick it up and squirt it.

[223] And there's no, you don't have to mess around with.

[224] an extra step.

[225] Go grab a pair of, I also have scissors in every room in my fucking house because I'm a grandma, so I could, I'd be fine.

[226] But everyone else isn't psychotic like me. It's nice to have a pair of scissors near back.

[227] You always need a pair of scissors.

[228] Okay.

[229] What else?

[230] Okay.

[231] This is going to make you very happy.

[232] Oh my God.

[233] This is from Bailey at Bab Ice 99.

[234] Oh, the Irish.

[235] I love her.

[236] She says, my friend and I won 15.

[237] hundred dollars at the casino taking georgia hard stark's advice of playing buffalo oh i just scared mimi i know oh my god you 1500 dollars that's her fucking hooray if you ever win that at vegas on buffalo oh my god congratulations isn't that rad i'm thrilled you can send 25 % of that to me at p o no i'm kidding uh that's incredible i know i know That's a little good news.

[238] I think she, I know, right?

[239] She wrote that in as a fucking hurry, but I felt like that's just fun news from top of the show.

[240] I want to hear that.

[241] Now, last week I talked about me and Dave Messmar talking about what I was calling Haiga, which is the Danish practice of coziness, the, you know, being cozy in your home.

[242] Well, Tricia Bagby wrote and said it's called Higa, and there's a whole song about it in the frozen.

[243] Broadway show.

[244] And then she linked a YouTube link to the Frozen Broadway show, which I have not watched.

[245] But then, so thanks, Trisha, except.

[246] Uh -oh.

[247] Then Sarah Tunderman wrote in and said, quick correction corner, Higa is pronounced, Huga, chaga, huga, yes.

[248] And she said, but then she also said that the author of that book that I said, remember it was like meek wiking or whatever his name is mike viking and that's how it's pronounced and she said has ruined us for i know pronunciations from the netherlands she said um because of course he is and he works at the happiness institute true story and in parentheses i'm not a smarty pants i once listened to a podcast about him and became obsessed so apparently there's you can get podcasts about what Sarah says is pronounced hooga and what trisha says is pronounced hega and what me and dave say is pronounced huiga so i guess you'll never know that sounds like something homer simpson would say on his way to mose to drink a death what's that what's that bard that homer simpson goes to you're like dad you don't need to tell me the joke now because i get what you mean but go right ahead that's what you know that is classic dad joke that is a classic dad joke where you provide half the joke for him and then he gets mad if you don't laugh at it.

[249] Oh, Marty will be like, hey, I got one for it.

[250] Like to Vince, because he knows he's a comedian.

[251] He'll be like, hey, I got one you can use if you want.

[252] And then it's just like the most inappropriate joke.

[253] And we're like, Perfect.

[254] I know you're listening and I love you.

[255] Marty.

[256] Oh, can we give the author?

[257] We were on, and there was an article about us in L magazine that like kind of made me teary a little because it just made me see how far we've come that we don't think we stop and think about it often because we're just so immersed now in this podcast life the podcast life found us so um so that that article was written by emma dibden who just like did us so good it was like thanks emma we had a great meeting with her you know what's it called interview with her over zoom she was lovely we both applied for jobs at l they said no thank you but we didn't even get a callback but it was just so lovely so go on like L magazine online it's just on the online and it's just this really great piece that I was honored to send out to my mom and then my mom sent it to all my aunts and like you know it was and then started texting me back their responses over and over again like all their responses there really is yeah thank you Emma because there really is something to be said for um Um, a solid article.

[258] Like, did you see, you know, they, they talk to them in blank thing that your parents have actually heard of.

[259] Totally.

[260] When we were in a gas company, I was like, wow.

[261] Like, yeah, it's these publications that you're like, I've been reading these in my whole life on airplanes.

[262] And suddenly there's our face or there's our names.

[263] It's really, it's always exciting.

[264] It really is.

[265] It's nice.

[266] We're very grateful.

[267] And it's nice to talk to a person that, like, you feel like gets it or, like, is, it was easy.

[268] She was easy to talk to.

[269] Speaking of Grease Fire, because it has been in the second episode of the show I'm watching now, that Vince is.

[270] So Vince and I are starting.

[271] I think everyone in the pandemic has to do this at some point.

[272] It's the law is the Sopranos.

[273] Oh, yeah.

[274] I did it already.

[275] You did it, right?

[276] Yeah.

[277] So, I didn't know this.

[278] Vince had never seen it before.

[279] I watched it like from the beginning, like when it started.

[280] it.

[281] So I hadn't seen it in so long, but 20 fucking years.

[282] So we're watching that.

[283] It's so good.

[284] Edie Falco all day long.

[285] Edie Falco.

[286] I finished when I did it, which what I think was actually last summer, so strange.

[287] Yeah, I make me remember that.

[288] Midquar.

[289] It was so good and I loved it so much.

[290] And then I just wasn't enough.

[291] So there is a suggestion if you feel like it and you haven't had.

[292] enough at the end, I transitioned right into Nurse Jackie because just the Edie Falco vibe of like, I'm taking care of things.

[293] You're really pissing me off.

[294] I have to talk like this.

[295] Now I'm don't talk like that.

[296] You know, like the way she is, it just is.

[297] And Nurse Jackie is an amazing TV show.

[298] It is.

[299] I started that and I never, I don't know why I didn't keep doing it.

[300] But Edie Falco as that character, I love that character so much.

[301] And it's, you know, a huge part because she's so good at it.

[302] It's like, yes, it's brilliant.

[303] And he, James Gandalfini, I like, don't think I ever appreciated how good he was in it because I had never seen him before.

[304] But now watching him, like he plays this not stupid dummy so well.

[305] Like him in therapy is so, hey, like he gets mad and he's like, I went to a semester and a half of college.

[306] I'm not stupid.

[307] I know how the psychology thing works.

[308] Hey, so did I. Hey, wait a second.

[309] I do too.

[310] That's me. That's totally me. It's so good.

[311] Well, he's straight.

[312] He's actually a genius because he's street smart.

[313] And he anticipates, he anticipates like the mafia behavior, which is the whole game.

[314] So Sopranos, hook it up.

[315] This is our new Sopranos podcast.

[316] What's up?

[317] That one should start that.

[318] I bet there's fucking 55.

[319] I bet there's 29, 55.

[320] Speaking of which, should we.

[321] I thought you were using these grease fire segue.

[322] Are you still doing stuff you've watched and listened to?

[323] I don't have anything.

[324] Let's move on.

[325] Oh, I was going to.

[326] Oh.

[327] I was going to.

[328] I was just excited to use a segue.

[329] It was good.

[330] Into exactly right business.

[331] It was great.

[332] It was perfect.

[333] Let's do it.

[334] But it's like you just got started.

[335] Oh, no. Usually we both have 16.

[336] I know.

[337] This week's been slow in my life.

[338] Well, and if you've only been watching one show.

[339] Exactly.

[340] Exactly.

[341] And I've been listening to old books that I've already.

[342] read.

[343] So, um, yeah, let's do exactly right corner.

[344] Let's do it.

[345] So Kara and Lisa on that's messed up are joined this week by none other than ADA Casey Novak actress Diane Neal.

[346] She was on that show for six years.

[347] She is, she is, she basically is SVU in a lot of ways.

[348] Like if you're not talking about, um, you know, if you're not talking about Mariska or.

[349] That's right.

[350] Christopher Maloney.

[351] Yes.

[352] Christopher Maloney.

[353] So anyway, she's on there.

[354] That's a huge get.

[355] It's a big five.

[356] I feel like for sure.

[357] Big five is a sporting good store.

[358] But it's a big deal.

[359] And so I'm sure they're very excited.

[360] Big deal.

[361] Promo code murder.

[362] All right.

[363] So I saw what you did.

[364] Of course, our incredible movie pasta.

[365] Our incredible movie podcast hosted by Danielle.

[366] And Millie, this week they're doing, they're covering Gleaming the Cube, which is an incredible movie from 1989.

[367] That was spoiler.

[368] This isn't a spoiler.

[369] Just tidbit filmed at my high school.

[370] Yeah.

[371] And then also covering Memphis Bell, the 1990 movie.

[372] And it turns out that fucking none other than Tony Hawk, who was in Gleaming the Cube, liked their tweet about it, which is huge.

[373] I just love that guy.

[374] Oh.

[375] I just love that guy.

[376] Golden.

[377] He's the best celebrity.

[378] I think he might be the best celebrity there.

[379] Bold and boy.

[380] And just to know, I believe that those two movies, they're starting there, was a good or was I horny March Madness Brackets.

[381] So this is a hilarious thing that they're doing over there where they're talking about these movies that we all saw roughly.

[382] I mean, obviously, this is generational.

[383] Yeah.

[384] But we saw them when we were in our teens and we loved them, but were they actually good or did we just love every boy in the movie?

[385] That's right.

[386] So you guys mentioned the lost.

[387] boys and that also for me dirty dancing was just what are these feelings for yeah as a child for me i'm a little bit older it was the outsiders at every poster i had every you had a different kind of crush on every single one of them it was such big feeling yeah so follow them on instagram and then also we're really excited to tell you guys that daniel henderson the host of i saw what you did wrote a memoir and it's available now for pre -order it's called the ugly cry um and You can go to the Penguin Random House website and search for the ugly cry to pre -order.

[388] It's a big deal to pre -order.

[389] So please support Danielle Henderson by doing so.

[390] And it's going to be freaking incredible.

[391] She is an incredible woman.

[392] She's such a good writer.

[393] And I love to check this credit for her all the time.

[394] But she is the inventor of the feminist Ryan Gosling meme that everybody loved for so long.

[395] That's Daniel Henderson.

[396] That's the mind behind that meme.

[397] Can I also tell you?

[398] Very talented.

[399] And I also want to, I don't know if I told you this.

[400] When Elvis died, she sent the cat, Mimi and Dottie, a huge box of cat toys as like a, as like a gift to be like, sorry for your loss.

[401] That's very classy.

[402] And she got two of everything.

[403] So they didn't have to fight over it.

[404] How sweet is that?

[405] It was just a really touching gesture that I, know I was so I was blown away by so yeah that's really nice yeah she's awesome and just so funny yeah and then also um the banana boys uh Scott Scott you and Kurt um this week they have the amazing Akila Hughes on their show um you might know her she's one of the hosts of the what a day podcast over on crooked media and she's an amazing writer and a talent and she's um one of my favorite people on Twitter.

[406] She's one of the reasons I stay on Twitter because she says what I'm thinking all the time and it makes me really happy.

[407] So that's going to be a great episode.

[408] I mean, with all the shit on Twitter that makes you want to quit every day, I feel like that's a huge compliment.

[409] Yeah, it's true.

[410] Well, because also I think a lot of people are going through that where I think it's almost like growing pains.

[411] Like we all, I think everyone had their hatreds siphoned in political ways for so long.

[412] And now that's kind of of over for whatever reason or maybe not you know in some ways but not as in your face i feel like yeah but now there is like a backlash of it where it's like now there everybody's putting it on everybody else and it's like all these ways of figuring out how everyone's wrong all the time and there's a lot of energy and and also i think generations are being blamed for it when i think everyone does it i think everyone it's a real indulgence that i have to i love hating believe me this is this is me saying I get it, but I think it's a good idea when you're on social media just to check yourself every once in a while and just be like, am I here to point a finger that maybe I should just go ahead and be pointing right back in my face?

[413] I think about that a lot when I'm like, I'm trying to come up with tweets because I'm not a comedian, but I want to be like funny and and topical and shit.

[414] And then I realize like all of mine are like, I hate this and I don't like that.

[415] And it's like, don't do that.

[416] Only tweet just top, you know, for me, me funny point like pointed let's take that out it gives a shit no no no like I hate that way this person parks it's like who cares don't put some negativity into the world you know right which is a hard thing to do because you know negativity is kind of like the fertile soil of comedy but there's other ways to do it so it's almost like the only the when I am in that position and I'm trying not to be the old crab that I usually am all I do is just go well, what's, like, what's a, what's this same idea coming from a different direction and just try to, instead of writing, like, tweeting the first thing you think of, tweet the third thing.

[417] Right.

[418] Or just like live a life of not trying to rip other people down for your, for humor or.

[419] But it's so satisfying.

[420] Do it tell your friends.

[421] Oh.

[422] To your friends.

[423] Don't tweet it.

[424] How dare she and how dare he and how dare they.

[425] That's right.

[426] Everyone's doing it wrong.

[427] But me. Here's me in the middle.

[428] Perfect.

[429] And pointing and funny to the boot.

[430] Okay, hold on once.

[431] Buffalo!

[432] Buffalo!

[433] Sorry, I'm sure Vince is like, is Georgia going fucking crazy.

[434] Is this it?

[435] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

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[451] Mm -hmm.

[452] And this was one of the crime stories that affected me deeply and was very upsetting.

[453] It's essentially very similar to like a John, a British John List story.

[454] Oh, shit.

[455] So this was season two, episode six of the British series crime story.

[456] And so that's what, that's where I got this idea.

[457] But also in the research, we used Wikipedia, BBC News, the Sunday Times article, written by David James Smith the Independent and a website called www .w .combeau .com nz.

[458] So a new, perfect.

[459] So a website from New Zealand called stuff that doesn't seem to be porn.

[460] Okay, so there's also then I just last night flicking around HBO Max, there is also a current British series called the Murders at White House Farm.

[461] and that's what this story is, the murders at White House Farm.

[462] And that TV show cites a author named Carol Ann Lee, who wrote the murders at White House Farm, and it also cites additional information from In Search of the Rainbows End by Colin Calfill.

[463] Okay.

[464] Okay, so it's 326 a .m. on August 7, 1985, and the Chelmsford Police Department gets a call from a man named Jeremy Bamber, And he tells the officer, you've got to help me. My father has rung me and said, please come over.

[465] Your sister has gone crazy and has got a gun.

[466] Quick reminder, guns are not common in England.

[467] This is also the 80s.

[468] But this is the kind of thing where in America, you'd be like, well, game.

[469] Right?

[470] Yeah.

[471] Yeah.

[472] It happens.

[473] Very alarming over there, obviously.

[474] I mean, alarming everywhere, but very uncommon over there.

[475] So according to Jeremy, after his father says this to him on the phone, the line goes dead.

[476] And then when he tries calling his father back, no one answers.

[477] So Jeremy's parents are Neville and June Bambard.

[478] They live at the family farm known as White House Farm, which is just outside the small village of Tolst Darcy in Essex.

[479] Jeremy lives in the neighboring village of Goldhanger, about three and a half miles from the family home.

[480] Sure, it's not.

[481] Goldinger?

[482] It's Goldengar.

[483] It's Golden Girls.

[484] He lives in a village and everyone there is either a Sophia.

[485] That's, uh, da, da, da, okay.

[486] He lives in Florida.

[487] The police would later note that Jeremy called the police station on its direct line instead of using the 99 -emergency line.

[488] Okay.

[489] So Jeremy's instructed to go to his parents' house, the farm, and wait for police there.

[490] And then three officers head out to the White House farm at 3 .35 a .m. On their way there, they pass Jeremy's car.

[491] And they note that he's driving much more slowly than they are.

[492] So he's in no hurry to get there.

[493] Okay.

[494] They arrive at the White House farm a minute or two before Jeremy.

[495] And then Jeremy and the officers begin walking around the perimeter.

[496] So it's kind of far back and there's like hedges around the actual house.

[497] There's a whole farm and, you know, barns and outbuildings and stuff like that.

[498] But the actual house is kind of like they can walk around the outside of it kind of far away.

[499] They can see that lights are on.

[500] They hear a dog barking.

[501] They don't see any movement inside the house, but they're trying to figure it out.

[502] And the more they're looking like at one point in the made -for -TV movie that one officer's like, there's somebody in the upside.

[503] And then he was like, oh, sorry, that was a reflection.

[504] Like they're all getting freaked out the longer there.

[505] there.

[506] And Jeremy's saying, let's just go inside.

[507] Let's go check.

[508] And the police are saying somebody could have a gun in there.

[509] Like, we don't know what's going on.

[510] So we have to wait for backup.

[511] So the tactical firearms team gets there around five in the morning.

[512] They decide not to try to enter the home until daybreak so that they have, so they can see what's going on.

[513] Yeah.

[514] But until then, the police start talking to Jeremy's sister Sheila on a megaphone based on Jeremy's report that Sheila was inside the house with a gun.

[515] And they're saying, come out and everything's fine.

[516] And, you know, we just want to talk to you and everything, you know, they get no response.

[517] Then they start to talk to Jeremy about what happened.

[518] And he says that it sounded like someone cut the call off as he was talking to his father.

[519] Police asked Jeremy why Neville would have called his son instead of calling the police directly calling me the emergency line.

[520] Jeremy says that his father is a private person who'd want to keep this matter within the family.

[521] he also mentions his sister Sheila is a quote unquote nutter who quote has been having treatment so yeah it would make sense that like this is maybe a common occurrence and you don't yeah you don't want to get the attention of the cops or like if they come they're going to arrest her and he you know maybe he's being protective of her right all those things are possible and and what the police are since the police know nothing about any of it they're just following this guys lead.

[522] So just before 8 in the morning, police break through the back kitchen door with a sledgehammer and there slumped on top of an overturned chair.

[523] The police find the body of Neville Bamber.

[524] He's 61 years old.

[525] He's still wearing his pajamas and he has eight gunshot wounds.

[526] There's signs of a struggle around the kitchen.

[527] There's broken dishes.

[528] There's damage to the ceiling light.

[529] There's blood all over the floor.

[530] The door was locked from the inside and the key was left in the lock.

[531] The rotary phone is sitting on the counter off the hook.

[532] In the upstairs master bedroom, they find Neville's wife, June, who's also 61, dead in her bed with seven gunshot wounds, including one between the eyes.

[533] And then, tragically, they find Sheila's two six -year -old twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas, each shot in their beds in the adjacent bedroom.

[534] Daniel was shot five times in the back of the head and Nicholas was shot three.

[535] Oh, my God.

[536] And then on the master bedroom floor not far from her mother's side, Sheila Bambor Caffell, who's 28 years old, has two bullet wounds below her chin, a Bible beside her, and a 22 rifles resting on her chest pointing upwards towards her throat.

[537] The two gunshots is suspicious, right?

[538] Highly suspicious.

[539] Yeah.

[540] Yes.

[541] So the bambors are, just to go into the family background a little bit, They're a well -off family.

[542] This is a 300 -acre working farm that they have.

[543] And it was left to the Neville and June by June's father.

[544] But they also own property in London.

[545] And they also own a caravan site, which is basically like a campsite.

[546] Life is good for the family for the most part.

[547] Throughout the 50s, June, the mom faced an uphill battle with depression.

[548] She was actually hospitalized for it.

[549] When she was released, though, they decided to start a family, but they weren't realized they weren't able to have children.

[550] So in October of 1957, they adopt their first baby, which was Sheila.

[551] And then four years later, 1961, they adopt their son, Jeremy.

[552] So both of the Bamber children went to private schools.

[553] And after graduating high school, Sheila goes on to study at a secretarial college in London.

[554] Shortly thereafter, at age 17, she gets pregnant by her boyfriend, Colin Caffell.

[555] So June Bamber is very, very religious.

[556] This pregnancy out of wedlock is a huge problem in the family.

[557] It creates huge problems.

[558] Neville and June actually make arrangements for Sheila to get an abortion, which she does.

[559] But the family dynamic is really bad.

[560] And she's, you know, mother and daughter relationship is very, very strained.

[561] Then Sheila comes home with her boyfriend, Colin.

[562] and they get caught sunbathing nude in a field, and June loses her mind.

[563] She calls Sheila the devil's child.

[564] Their relationship is never the same after that.

[565] But Sheila and Colin continue dating.

[566] They get pregnant for a second time in 1977, and they get married at the local courthouse.

[567] Sheila tries working as a secretary, a hairdresser.

[568] She does some modeling, but she can't seem to keep a job.

[569] Then she has a miscarriage.

[570] so that's really difficult.

[571] She has a very hard time.

[572] She and Colin have a hard time with that.

[573] So the bambors end up buying her own apartment, a flat, to recuperate in, basically.

[574] And then finally, in June of 1979, Sheila gives birth to her twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas.

[575] But the problem is by that point, Sheila and Colin's relationship is actually falling apart.

[576] The year before the boys are born, Colin leaves.

[577] Sheila's 21st birthday party with another woman.

[578] And Sheila spirals into such a rage and has such a breakdown that she smashes a window with her fist and she ends up having to be hospitalized for a nervous breakdown.

[579] So by the time she's pregnant with the boys, Colin is fully having an affair.

[580] And when the boys are five months old, he leaves Sheila for the other woman.

[581] So they divorce in May of 1982 and Neville buys Sheila a brand new.

[582] apartment and she and Colin, it's amicable, they share custody of the boys.

[583] After her divorce, Sheila does a lot of partying with her friends, does a lot of cocaine.

[584] So even though her flat was, her apartment was bought for her, her parents do not give her additional money.

[585] So she starts racking up a lot of debt because of the drugs and because she just kind of can't keep a job.

[586] bounces from low -paying job to low -paying job.

[587] She's a cleaner for a while.

[588] She works as a waitress for a while.

[589] She even does a little bit of nude modeling just to make the ends meet, which she completely regrets after.

[590] She just does it once.

[591] And in this time, her mental health is declining the entire time.

[592] She has frequent outbursts.

[593] She has really bad episodes or she ends up banging her head against the wall over and over.

[594] She actually, the kids get taken away from her and put into foster care because, she can't take care of herself.

[595] So she's finally taken to a psychiatrist who diagnoses her with schizophrenia.

[596] In March of 1985, she suffers a psychotic episode.

[597] She starts believing that she's talking directly to God.

[598] There's lots of very, lots of, you know, unhealthy behavior.

[599] She says she fears her current boyfriend's going to kill her.

[600] She says she thinks the boys, her sons, you know, are being controlled by the devil.

[601] There's a lot of stuff.

[602] stuff like that.

[603] She ends up getting hospitalized for four weeks and she gets put on a monthly injection of an anti -psychotic.

[604] So that's, that basically leads us up to 1985 right around the time of when that events take place.

[605] So we'll go back a little bit and talk about her brother Jeremy.

[606] So Jeremy was born on January 13th, 1961 and adopted by Neville in June when he's six months old.

[607] And like his sister, he's sent to fancy private schools.

[608] And although he's a smart and charming boy, he has a hard time focusing on schoolwork.

[609] And he ends up leaving what's the equivalent of like a fancy private grammar school without earning any qualifications.

[610] Neville goes crazy.

[611] This is like, you know, it's not what's supposed to be happening.

[612] But he ends up basically kind of bouncing back and doing well in what's called sixth form.

[613] college, which is basically 12th and 13th grade in America.

[614] But he, so like when he gets older, he kind of gets his act together a little bit.

[615] But he leaves school altogether in 1978.

[616] And when he's 17, he decides he wants to go take scuba diving classes in Australia.

[617] So his dad pays for it.

[618] And when he's down there, he does that.

[619] Then he goes over to New Zealand.

[620] And when he's in Auckland, he stays with a friend named Brett Collins.

[621] Brett will later describe Jeremy as a Jekyllyn Hyde type who can get quote quite nasty he's often kicked out of bars for his aggression and he has a hard time getting along with Brett's friends so he's like staying at someone's house and trying to hang and then is just like you know not a chill dude super agro and as we well know you need to be chill in Australia you super need to be chill in New Zealand yeah don't even like you you yell at a card that cuts you off and you're being never mind it's easy to be a dick there because nobody's a dick there everyone is so calm and trying to say wearing their beautiful sheep's sheep's wool sweaters and just like acting like the flight of the concord and their white teeth and everything nobody wants your agro British friend okay so Jeremy's determined to stick around New Zealand and make his own money.

[622] So he gets, he ends up getting, he starts with a $5 ,000 gift from his parents.

[623] And he takes that money.

[624] And then this is his plan of making his own money.

[625] And he meets up with a potential heroin supplier because his plan is he's going to be a heroin dealer.

[626] Uh -huh.

[627] That's how he's going to make his own money.

[628] Things do not go according to plan.

[629] The quote -unquote supplier just.

[630] steals his money and never gives him any drugs.

[631] So now, Jeremy doesn't even have the nice chunk of money his parents gave him.

[632] So Brett takes Jeremy to a pawn shop where Jeremy sells a bunch of his grandmother's diamonds, which is another inheritance he brought along as insurance.

[633] But Jeremy quickly burns through that money too and since the only way for him to earn his inheritance, which is over a million dollars in total assets that he has to split with his sister, the only way he can get that inheritance is to come back and work on the family farm when his parents.

[634] And so basically he's running it when his parents, after his parents die.

[635] That's the plan.

[636] So Jeremy ends up moving back to Essex in 1982 into his father, the cottage his father owns in Golden Girls, England.

[637] By day, Jeremy works his parents land.

[638] I mean, this is a real farm.

[639] That was the part that I was blown out by because when I watched the crime story show, it looked like an estate and so the first version of this when I was writing it I was like the family estate and I just thought they were super like rich British people in the rich countryside but this is a full on farm and it's huge and the cousins because it's from June's family the cousins on the mom's side live around the farm and work there too so there it's all yeah it's all kind of in the family so by day Jeremy works his parents land and by night he fuels up on cocaine and parties in London.

[640] He's upset about how little he's being paid for this farm work he does because it is hard, you know, manual labor.

[641] But he is, has been given a free car.

[642] And of course, his own house, the cottage that his father owns, he also owns 8 % of the family's caravan site on nearby O .C. Road.

[643] So in 1983, he meets a woman.

[644] named Julie Mugford down at the Sloppy Joe's pizza parlor in Colchester.

[645] Yes, take me there.

[646] Sloppy Joe's the British pizza parlor in Colchester.

[647] You know how well British people do sloppy joes in pizza.

[648] So you might as well.

[649] So what you do is you get a sloppy Joe and then you place it on top of a pizza.

[650] If you had to eat a sloppy Joe or pizza right now, which one would it be?

[651] Pizza entirely.

[652] You don't do sloppy joes are are, I'll just be this basic about it.

[653] Sloppy shows are too sloppy.

[654] I can't stand how messy this.

[655] For sure.

[656] You do?

[657] No, you don't.

[658] Yes, I do.

[659] Do you really?

[660] I'm a big fan of that man which I still, that's one of the things for my childhood that I like, I can't quit you.

[661] Like I put a thing on Twitter recently.

[662] I was like, what's your thing?

[663] This is a total aside.

[664] What's the thing from childhood that you can't quit?

[665] And mine is, and you've seen me eat this on the road, fucking luncheables for sure.

[666] Sure.

[667] But sloppy Joe's are right up there too.

[668] Really?

[669] And it's, is manwich, did it come in a can?

[670] Yeah.

[671] It's like a can, like a can of sauce.

[672] Oh, God.

[673] And then you put it, you have, make the ground beef and then throw that sauce in there.

[674] Or ground turkey, if you want to be healthy or soy, soy, rozo, uh, impossible, sorry, Rizzo.

[675] I'm a big fan.

[676] Fancy bun.

[677] That's funny.

[678] Our fans.

[679] Put the fucking pepper jack on that shit.

[680] Yeah.

[681] We didn't do sloppy joes because my dad was a big hamburgers on Sunday person.

[682] Oh, that's right.

[683] I've had your dad's hamburgers.

[684] They're legit.

[685] They're pretty good if he, as long as you make sure to cook them all the way through.

[686] We've had some tragic nights where my dad threw them on and was like, I like rare to you.

[687] And we're like, this isn't rare.

[688] This is still in the packet.

[689] Okay.

[690] Okay.

[691] This is still no slack.

[692] Sloppy Joe's pizza parlor.

[693] Wow.

[694] Okay.

[695] Go.

[696] Now, it's March 1985 and the caravan site I was telling you about, which is like a campsite, someone breaks into the office there and makes off with 980 pounds.

[697] And this is right after Jeremy says to his uncle how lacks the security at this caravan site is.

[698] No arrest is ever made, but it is remembered by the family, of course.

[699] So several months later, in August of 1985, Sheila and the boys plan to spend a week at the family farmhouse before the boys go away on a trip to Norway with their father, Colin.

[700] So Colin drives the boys to the grandparents house on August 4, 1985, but they tell him they don't want to go because June makes them spend so much time praying on their knees.

[701] And they're like six years old.

[702] And they don't like it.

[703] It makes them uncomfortable.

[704] But the whole thing is already been set.

[705] And, you know, it's like, and he's obligated under law.

[706] Yeah, it's like what has to happen before he can take them away for this summer trip.

[707] Oh, tragic.

[708] Yeah.

[709] And at this point in the White House Farm Murders TV series, the actress who is really good that plays Sheila is basically super on on drugs.

[710] on her meds but they're really strong so she's kind of like a little bit zoned out and she's saying to her ex -husband please tell my mother not to give me these shots anymore and he's like I can't get in between it like she already doesn't like me because he actually tells June please don't make the boys pray anymore and she of course is very offended and it's a whole event and he's just kind of like it's clearly bad things are a foot in that house anyway.

[711] So two days later on August 6th, 1985, Jeremy visits his parents and his sister and his nephews at the family farmhouse.

[712] During that visit, he grabs one of his dad's gun, a 22 semi -automatic rifle, and he takes it out back to shoot some rabbits.

[713] But he goes out there, he says he can't find any, so he comes back into the house, and he leaves the gun along with a full magazine and a box of ammunition on the kitchen table.

[714] Usually they, the family will later say that Neville usually puts a silencer on that rifle because it's really loud, I guess.

[715] But according to Jeremy, this silencer is not on the gun at this point.

[716] So one of the farm workers, here's Jeremy, leave the farmhouse that night around 9 .30.

[717] And around the same time, the farm secretary, a woman named Barbara Wilson, calls Neville to, and he seems very irritated and very short with her, which he, almost never is he's a very like kind and even tempered man um and she will later tell the police it feels like he was just in an argument okay like the way he was treat acting toward her which he never did around 10 p .m june's sister pamela calls the house and speaks with sheila who seems quiet to her which would make sense with the um amount of meds she was on and then she speaks with june and she says she didn't notice anything odd about her sister's temperament.

[718] And this would be the last time anyone other than Jeremy would hear from Neville, June, or Sheila.

[719] So in the initial investigation, the police are certain that Sheila snapped, of course, based on her mental health history, and that she murdered her parents and her own children before turning the gun on herself.

[720] They eventually noticed that, like, in the investigation, that there are two bullet holes, in her.

[721] And you have to kind of see it in this TV movie because they really, like, rationalize, rationalized, like, because the first was an injury, but it was not a mortal wound.

[722] So they're like, well, she could have shot a second time.

[723] But there's one police investigator, and I couldn't tell if he was, if it was entirely factual or if he was just a character to kind of, you know, represent the people who are doubters.

[724] But he's basically saying, have you ever seen this?

[725] in all of your years of investigating somebody who's trying to do a murder suicide didn't shoot themselves two times.

[726] It just doesn't seem likely.

[727] So they're definitely doubters from the beginning, but they all, you know, Jeremy kind of led them there with this story and it all played out.

[728] And they're all, of course, insanely devastated by what they saw at that crime scene.

[729] Yeah.

[730] So they're just kind of trying to get it all taken care of and get the case closed.

[731] Sure.

[732] So the Bambor's cousins, the ones who live on the farm property, are not convinced that this is the story.

[733] They say Sheila was a very gentle person who adored her children and none of this makes sense.

[734] They beg the police to explore the possibility of Jeremy's involvement.

[735] But the detective chief inspector Thomas Jones takes this very personally, that they already have their theory and that they're working on that.

[736] Questioning them.

[737] Yes.

[738] So he basically says, how dare you question me and throws them out of his office.

[739] And I think he calls the one cousin who is really there, Anne Eaton is her name.

[740] And did you watch Game of Thrones?

[741] No. Oh, okay.

[742] The actors that plays Anne Eaton in this was played one of the people in Game of Thrones.

[743] That's awesome.

[744] She's like the leader that she's the one that.

[745] Everyone else will know, but I don't know.

[746] I can't.

[747] Game of Thrones.

[748] I love that show.

[749] The names were terrible.

[750] I couldn't everyone's Tyron, Theeron, Breron, blah, blah, blah.

[751] But I think she was the sister who was the like the army general.

[752] Well, but actually she was, I should say Navy General because she had a boat.

[753] Yeah.

[754] And she went and said her brother, I believe, was Theon, who's the guy that got castrated.

[755] I believe.

[756] Every time you ask someone to explain a scene from Game of Thrones, that's exactly what it sounds like to me. So and so's sister got castrated.

[757] frustrated and then they were in charge of the Army Navy surplus store.

[758] Like, it's just their name was high on Sheron.

[759] And then every single time someone, I usually grocery stores when I pay for something with a credit card, someone looks at my last name, Hard Stark, and goes, do you watch Game of Thrones?

[760] And I'm like, no, but I know.

[761] I sounds like House Hard Stark.

[762] You should, I swear, though, if that's one, like once you're done with the soprano.

[763] I swear.

[764] It's a beautiful television show.

[765] I think it's wonderfully acted.

[766] I think the journey of it.

[767] it and the amount of seasons is amazing.

[768] I'm not against it.

[769] It's just I never started it and then it was too, like, too far gone.

[770] It's very fun.

[771] I myself would say if somebody asked me like, oh, that's not really my thing.

[772] Yeah.

[773] Fantasy or whatever.

[774] Don't bother.

[775] Yeah.

[776] But it's very well done.

[777] Stephen, do you have a piece of information?

[778] Is it Gemma Elizabeth Wheelan you were talking about?

[779] She plays Yara Greyjoy in Game of Thrones.

[780] Yes.

[781] And her brother's Theon Greyjoy.

[782] Yes.

[783] Gemma what's her name Gemma Elizabeth Whelan Gemma Elizabeth Whelan who is in many of my programs and she's an absolutely wonderful actors hilarious she does it all she does drama they all do it all but she's really good okay okay good so she plays Anne Eaton this cousin and she's very well where it's this cousin who starts out and you have to think of it this way where this family the entire family is murdered it is something that never happens when does that ever happen?

[784] It's crazy.

[785] It's nobody expects it.

[786] It's horrible.

[787] And then the idea that a mother would kill her own children, kill her own parents.

[788] Like everything about it is so awful.

[789] But slowly but surely, she's sitting there going like, this doesn't add up.

[790] This is, you know what I mean?

[791] She has her doubts.

[792] Things are adding up.

[793] And she's having to go in and argue with, you know, this detective.

[794] Who don't want to hear it and also who want it all closed.

[795] okay so and this sorry this is 1985 right yes yes yeah old school old school but also like present day enough to like yeah it's not not crazy you know yeah okay but still kind of like the 60s in a weird way where he keeps calling her in the I don't know if this is you know this is just writing or fact based he he keeps calling her Miss Marple because she's like what about this insanely outstanding.

[796] And that's like blowing her off, right?

[797] Yeah.

[798] Here's some crazy mistakes the police made.

[799] First of all, they're certain this is how it happened.

[800] Sheila murdered her entire family.

[801] So that's what they're looking toward and they don't secure the crime scene.

[802] They don't conduct a thorough search, probably because it's such a devastating crime scene, but it's not a thorough, it's not, it's not secure.

[803] It's not taped off.

[804] They don't have any kind of forensic, anything going on.

[805] A couple days after the crime, they burn anything from the house that the victim's blood can't be cleaned off of.

[806] So they take, yeah, they take bedding, carpets, clothing, and they burn it in a burn pile.

[807] That's evidence.

[808] It's called evidence.

[809] And this cop who, if he was real, he was on, it was such an up.

[810] he's the one that like he's like why are we burning this stuff why is this all the way already over like there's i don't like two bullets in the so -called perpetrators head that doesn't make sense like you know whatever so an officer actually handles the murder weapon without wearing gloves which was common back then yeah still insane and jeremy and his cousins are all given keys to the farmhouse three days after the burders.

[811] So anyone could go into that crime scene.

[812] It's basically destroyed of the possibility of gathering further evidence.

[813] So on August 10th, 1989, another one of Jeremy's cousins named David finds the 22 silencer in a cupboard in the farmhouse.

[814] He sees specs of what appeared to be blood and red paint on it.

[815] They call the police station and leave a message saying they found it and they wait for someone to call them back and no one ever calls them back.

[816] So finally they get a hold of the doubting police officer.

[817] And he comes and goes, why did you wait so long?

[818] And Anne says, we called down there and left a message and no one called us back.

[819] So a couple days later, another cousin finds scratches on the bottom of a mantelpiece, which had been painted red.

[820] So a theory emerges, this silencer must have been on the gun at the time of the murders and the sign lesser component must have been scratched on the mantel piece during the struggle between Neville and the killer.

[821] And then it must have been removed and put in that cupboard, which means Sheila could not have done that.

[822] Right.

[823] So on August, so on August 14th, 1985, they open an inquest into the murders and they present their case that it was a murder suicide perpetrated by Sheila.

[824] shortly after that, Neville June and Sheila's bodies are all cremated and Daniel and the boys are buried.

[825] So during this funeral and there's tons of press at this funeral, of course, because this story is, you know, worldwide probably at the time.

[826] Jeremy is being comforted by his girlfriend, Julie, crying, he's crying and leaning on her arm in front of the press, in front of the cameras.

[827] But then later on at the wake, which was private, he's in good spirits.

[828] smiling and joking around.

[829] Of course, Anne and her cousins, Ella cousins, Ella cousins, noticed this odd behavior.

[830] Later, when Anne asks Jeremy if she could have her Aunt June's a certain ring that she wore as a keepsake because she was very close to her aunt, Jeremy says he can't give it to her.

[831] Sorry, sorry, I can't do it.

[832] And at first he makes this weird joke where he goes, they all sit down to talk about like basically the will and he's like yeah they were in tons of debt there's nothing left and anne's like there's no way that's possible like we've been running the farm and yeah you know they're in the business they like that's no way and then he was then he goes i'm joking come oh i guess you do want something out of the will and she's just sitting there like horrified yeah like this is this crime is beyond horrifying and you're sitting here joking about the will yeah yeah and being like you can't have one ring when you know whatever so so then she just can't she's just like something is super off here and this is not right then she notices and remembers that there is a window latch that if you go out a window and shut it a certain way from the outside it will lock itself back and so someone could have done that and it would have had to have been someone who had lived in the house because only the people who had lived in the house knew it, that you could make it look like the house was entirely locked from the inside.

[833] So she also points out that if Uncle Neville was shot first in the kitchen and there's no silencer on the gun, why isn't one person running downstairs?

[834] Why isn't anybody else?

[835] Why is everyone murdered in their beds?

[836] So it isn't long after the family's buried and all the funerals take place.

[837] Jeremy takes Julie and another friend on a trip to Amsterdam.

[838] according to the travel agent who booked their flights the group was in quote high spirits when they departed and as soon as they got back jeremy begins to sell his parents belongings but one month after the murders things between jeremy and julie begin to sour jeremy's losing interest in her he's trying to distance himself from her there's a series of arguments that lead to physical fights um this final straw from julie comes on september 4th 1985, when in the middle of an argument, Jeremy gets a phone call from another woman.

[839] She slaps him.

[840] He grabs her arm, twists it behind her back.

[841] Three days later, she calls the police.

[842] She contacts the police, I should say.

[843] Because in her initial statement, she told police that she'd gotten a call from Jeremy on August 7th, sometime between 3 and 3 .30 in the morning telling her that something was wrong at her parents' house.

[844] And that was all he said.

[845] the police were like, why didn't you ask any questions?

[846] And she told the police because she was tired.

[847] A month later she's there changing her story.

[848] She tells the police Jeremy had been talking about killing his family on and off for months.

[849] She says that between July and October of 1984, Jeremy spoke ill of his parents and sister, said he, quote, wanted to get rid of them all.

[850] Julie said that Jeremy was angry.

[851] His parents paid for Sheila's expensive flat, even though he was living in that cottage for free and that his sister was quote nuts and that her kids were quote disturbed um she also claims jeremy told her that he could sedate his parents with sleeping pills shoot them set the house on fire to hide the evidence and because of her history of mental health issues blame the entire thing on sheila oh so then she julie says that the first call she received from jeremy before just before the murders actually happened at nine the night of the murders, 20 minutes after he reportedly left the farmhouse.

[852] And on this call, she says Jeremy tells her he's pissed off.

[853] He's been thinking about killing his family all day and that it's tonight or never.

[854] Why would, okay.

[855] What, what?

[856] Why would he tell her that?

[857] But you should also not kill his family.

[858] Well, right.

[859] Like, it doesn't seem likely, but then if he's the kind of person that's like monologuing about this plan or like, he's, he's, there's perceived slights that he's mad about and then he's complaining to the girlfriend and he's more and more confiding in her probably after a while it's like she and she's maybe acting like it's okay or acting like she's in on it so or just doesn't know what to do and doesn't say anything at all and so he continues telling her yeah so she claims she gets a call from jeremy a few hours later closer to three in the morning in which he says everything's going well something's wrong at the farm I haven't had any sleep all night.

[860] So then after the police discovered the bodies at the farmhouse, Julie goes to Jeremy's cottage and the police are there with him.

[861] This is, you know, after the horrible discovery, and he pulls her aside out of earshot of the police and says, quote, I should have been an actor.

[862] Julie also confesses she and Jeremy were responsible for the burglary at the family caravan site.

[863] she gives up this information in exchange for her own amnesty for the crime.

[864] Police are able to use all this information to arrest Jeremy on September 8, 1985.

[865] He defends himself saying Julie's just trying to get him in trouble out of revenge.

[866] He denies having anything to do with killing his family.

[867] He insists he love them very much.

[868] But he does admit breaking into the caravan site.

[869] He said it wasn't for the money, but to prove the point that security was too lax at the camp site then why take the money right to prove the point what okay so he gets arrested but he absolutely insists he didn't do it they charge for the burglary sticks on september 9th he but he makes bail and he's released on september 13th immediately and this is where this story turned for me where when i was watching crime story i was like sorry what he goes to the sun tabloid newspaper and tries to sell his story and his sister's old nude modeling photos for 20 ,000 pounds.

[870] And not only does the son decline, but they run a story about the fact that he made them that offer.

[871] Damn.

[872] So imagine, congratulations, you made a British tabloid cringe.

[873] Totally.

[874] That's how much of a sociopath you are.

[875] They'll print anything.

[876] You wouldn't call them the most ethical.

[877] of businesses.

[878] And they were like, are you, what the fuck are you doing?

[879] So, so right after that, he goes on vacation to Santropay with a friend.

[880] Oh.

[881] And while he's gone, police begin to investigate his potential involvement in the murders much more.

[882] One key discovery is traces of blood found on the silencer are found to match Sheila's blood.

[883] But if she were to have killed herself with silencer on, how did it get in the cupboard?

[884] mentioned earlier.

[885] Not to mention the silencer attachment would have made the gun so long she couldn't have positioned it underneath her own chin.

[886] And then pulled the trigger at the same time.

[887] That evidence is the final piece that is in the whole picture so damning that when Jeremy returns to England on September 29th, he's arrested again and this time for the murder of his entire family.

[888] Jeremy Bamber's trial begins on October 3rd 1985.

[889] He is oddly calm as you would guess and even arrogant sometimes while on the stand.

[890] You know, the pictures, we'll have pictures, but he reminds me a lot of the, the preppy killer.

[891] Yeah.

[892] That cocky confidence of someone who thinks they get away with anything.

[893] Yes.

[894] And that they look, you know, they're attractive.

[895] men who kind of have that thing of like, I'll say what actually happened.

[896] It's in interest, I don't know, just when I first kind of saw those pictures, it's that kind of thing where you, I think that happens sometimes with attractive people where people give them the benefit of the doubt.

[897] Get away with more.

[898] Maybe they seem more believable.

[899] I don't know.

[900] Yeah, the charm, the charisma, whatever, or just the, yeah.

[901] Okay, so he's being very cocky, of course, in the courtroom, as you'd imagine.

[902] At one point, the prosecutor accuses him of lying, and he coolly responds with, quote, that's what you've got to establish.

[903] Yeah.

[904] So, yes, so the prosecution lays out what they think happened in the early morning hours of August 7, 1985.

[905] After dinner with his family on August 6th, Jeremy leaves the farmhouse, somewhere between 9 .30 and 10 o 'clock.

[906] In the middle of the night, he bikes back to the farmhouse using his mother's bicycle that he had borrowed earlier in the week so he wouldn't be spotted on the road in his car knowing which windows in the house are easy to open he jimmies a bathroom window at the back of the house he slips in grabs the gun with the silencer attached heads upstairs into the master bedroom where he first shoots june and then he shoots neville but neville isn't killed immediately and he is able to make it downstairs because Neville was big I mean he was an older man but he was like six foot four I think big and so basically he makes it downstairs and then father and son get into a struggle and all through the kitchen and then Jeremy basically finishes his father off in the kitchen goes back upstairs he finds his sister Sheila struck with fear at the sight of her mother's dead body shoot Sheila in the master bedroom there goes into the boys room and shoots them both in their beds.

[907] So I know it's horrifying.

[908] After he positions Sheila's body to make it look like a murder suicide, realizing that she wouldn't be able to reach the trigger of the gun with the silencer attached, he takes the silencer off and hides it in the cupboard.

[909] I was wondering why he did that and that, so he figured that out on his own.

[910] Okay.

[911] Yeah.

[912] The one thing that is nonsensical is why would you hide it there and not take it anywhere else on that farm or you know or clean it yeah so the defense tries to argue that Sheila could have just realized for herself that she couldn't pull the trigger with the silence her on and removed it herself but the prosecution argues if that were the case why would she place it back downstairs she could have just set it on the ground beside her Sheila's former doctor testifies in court that while she did express suicidal or other violent thoughts, it's his opinion she was not capable of acting on those thoughts.

[913] And also the cousins testify saying the exact same thing.

[914] Although Sheila had mental issues, as many of us do, she would have never harmed anyone.

[915] And she was dedicated to her children.

[916] Even her ex, Colin Caffel, said that for all their arguments, Sheila would have never harmed her own children.

[917] So the prosecution also points out the struggle between Neville and the killer.

[918] Sheila was a very slight lean young woman.

[919] Her dad was six foot four and a strong man. It was very unlikely she would have been able to overpower him in a struggle even if he were wounded.

[920] The defense tries arguing against the proposed motive of greed saying Jeremy had more than enough money from his parents even while they were alive.

[921] They also argue that his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, is lying, retaliating against him for the their failed relationship.

[922] They claim Jeremy's cousins are lying about Sheila's inability to be violent because if Jeremy goes to prison, they inherit the White House farm.

[923] Their final point is that the blood results from the silencer don't prove a presence of Sheila's blood, but rather the blood, that the blood may be a combination of June and Nevels.

[924] Because of course, back at that time, it wasn't DNA like we know it now.

[925] If that is the case, then Sheila could have taken the science.

[926] violence are off long before turning the gun on herself.

[927] So this trial lasts 18 days on October 28, 1985.

[928] After a nine -hour deliberation, the jury finds Jeremy Bamber guilty of all five murders by a 10 -2 majority.

[929] Because in England, there's a minimum majority necessary for conviction.

[930] He's given five life terms and is recommended to serve a minimum of 25 years.

[931] And the sentencing judge calls Jeremy Bamberg.

[932] quote, warped an evil beyond belief.

[933] In November of 1986, Jeremy files an appeal on the grounds that the judge misdirected the jury.

[934] It's rejected in 1988.

[935] In March 1989, Jeremy's lawyer argues that to three appeal court judges that the whole trial was biased against Jeremy.

[936] On March 20th, that's also rejected.

[937] But because the trial judge did criticize the police for their shoddy investigating, Jeremy's legal team is able to get the Essex police to conduct an internal inquiry.

[938] In 1991, Jeremy makes a formal complaint that the police withheld evidence, but this does lead to more evidence being found, including more blood samples.

[939] But in 1996, a police officer who thought the trial had ended destroys this evidence.

[940] Yes.

[941] Basically, Jeremy continues fighting his conviction with a bid for more evidence to be released, as recent as May of 2020.

[942] So a year ago he's still doing it.

[943] There may have been outside campaigns from people who believe Jeremy was not guilty launched as recently as November of 2015, but many of the supporters have since changed their stance and no campaign has been successful in lessening Jeremy's sentence or proving his innocence.

[944] Jeremy Bamber remains in prison, but still maintains his innocence to this day, and that is the horrific story of the White House farm murders.

[945] Wow.

[946] I wonder if he'll ever get out.

[947] I can't believe 25 years.

[948] It doesn't seem like it.

[949] I think there's too many.

[950] It's just like even if all these things were terrible coincidences or whatever, it's just like, but you tried to sell your dead sisters nudes to the sun.

[951] To me, to me, that right there is just like and there's no explaining those little I wish they could DNA test the silencer now.

[952] I wonder if they still have it somewhere.

[953] Bet they don't.

[954] I bet 200 people have touched it in the touching context when they had the evidentiary touching contest in the summer of 1980s.

[955] Remember when I was in preschool and had the foot washing station?

[956] Well, they have the evidence watching station.

[957] Yeah, to teach the children.

[958] That's right.

[959] Oh, they.

[960] Wow.

[961] All right.

[962] Now I want to watch that.

[963] That was great.

[964] Yeah.

[965] Let's do some fucking arrays, though.

[966] Let's do it.

[967] We need them.

[968] Okay.

[969] Do we do a fucking hooray?

[970] Let's do a couple fucking hoorays.

[971] Let's do a couple.

[972] Okay.

[973] You want to go?

[974] Sure.

[975] Mine are both kind of in the same vein.

[976] This one's from the fan cults from Sam K -14.

[977] And it's titled, Just Because It's Bad doesn't mean it's the end.

[978] Hey, MFM, crew, cats, and dogs.

[979] My fucking hooray is that as of December 2020, I am two years clean of self -harm.

[980] And on top of that, I graduate from college this May, this year, with a bachelor's and biomedical engineering, an honors diploma, and a minor in Spanish.

[981] I know.

[982] I didn't see myself making it to this point at that time two plus years ago.

[983] And I'm so proud of how hard I've worked my ass off to get here.

[984] My mom introduced me to the podcast, my senior year of high school.

[985] And your comedy, positivity, and awareness and action when it comes to mental health has made such a day.

[986] difference in my life.

[987] And I'm sure it's helped so many others as well.

[988] Stay sexy and never give up on yourself, Sam Kay.

[989] Wow.

[990] Congratulations, Sam Kay.

[991] Amazing.

[992] That's huge.

[993] Yeah.

[994] All of that is huge separately.

[995] Each one of the degrees, each one of the majors, each one of those accomplishments is intensely impressive.

[996] Getting past self -harm is enormous.

[997] Wow.

[998] Really big.

[999] Yeah.

[1000] Really amazing.

[1001] Well done.

[1002] This one is also from the fan cult.

[1003] It's from Trina.

[1004] And it says my fucking hooray today is that I just finished paying off a huge loan that I took out to pay off my credit card debt.

[1005] In college, I spent way beyond my means and was very irresponsible with money.

[1006] I had no idea how to handle my newfound freedom and had been literally paying the consequences since.

[1007] It took me a long time to even make the decision to take out a loan for my debt.

[1008] But doing so allowed me to get a handle on those nasty.

[1009] interest charges.

[1010] Yeah, that's what you've got to do.

[1011] I'm proud to say that I'm finally free from all those dumb decisions I made circa 2013.

[1012] I realize I'm very fortunate that I've been able to do this at all this year, but it also took a ton of patience and diligence I rarely have.

[1013] I needed to celebrate somehow, hence the right in.

[1014] Now I just need to pay off my car.

[1015] P .S. I love hearing you talk about therapy and mental health.

[1016] And every time I listen, I feel like I'm just hanging out with two really.

[1017] cool aunts that want to give me advice about life and stuff.

[1018] Thank you so much.

[1019] That's incredible.

[1020] It is so, like Vince went through a similar thing in college.

[1021] Luckily, you and I didn't go, so we didn't have to deal with it.

[1022] Yeah, for real.

[1023] He is similarly not knowing how to deal with credit cards, but they, on campus, they have like credit card companies setting up booths and basically giving college kids credit cards.

[1024] It's absurd and yeah, it should be stopped immediately.

[1025] So the fact that you were able to get a hold of that instead of, you know, spending your whole life paying that off is incredible.

[1026] Yeah, it's huge.

[1027] And it is, it's, you know, a lot of people there, it's true.

[1028] It's that kind of thing that happens all the time though.

[1029] We go like, you, it's a fucking hooray and you should pat yourself on the back for it, but you don't want to be like, it's a difficult time for so many people.

[1030] Yeah.

[1031] But at the same time, you get your credit, you know, in the context of your life, you took care of a very big problem.

[1032] Right.

[1033] And that always should be celebrated.

[1034] Yeah.

[1035] I'm like, I'm not anti -credit card debt.

[1036] It can save people's lives and make lives easier.

[1037] But when it's, it's a scam sometimes when it's taking advantage of people who don't know how to, you know.

[1038] Or just if you mismanage it and pretend like credit cards mean that that it's, there's no money anywhere or something.

[1039] That's what I did with it.

[1040] And then I ended up having a 26 % interest rate so that I could, I could never have paid it all.

[1041] Never.

[1042] Yeah.

[1043] And until my friend found out my friend Karen Anderson, who was super responsible and was like called the company on my behalf as me and was like, no, no. She was like, I'm making five payments.

[1044] And then after I make my five payments, you're taking that percentage down to 20.

[1045] And then it's going to go down.

[1046] And she basically explained it to them, which you can do.

[1047] It's negotiable.

[1048] That's crazy.

[1049] Yeah.

[1050] This is from Instagram from The Moon is my girlfriend.

[1051] Her name.

[1052] Love it.

[1053] My fucking hooray is that throughout high school, I dealt with severe depression and other mental and physical health issues.

[1054] It was so bad at one point, I really didn't believe I would graduate.

[1055] This impacted my academics.

[1056] And for the past year and a half, I've been scrambling and working hard to improve my grades.

[1057] Well, this hard work paid off because I'm graduating with a 5 .3 weighted GPA.

[1058] What?

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] I barely graduated high school.

[1061] And even I know that's fucking excellent.

[1062] I would have loved a 3 .5 GPA when I graduated.

[1063] And during my break at work, I found out that I got into my dream school, the University of Florida.

[1064] This is an extremely competitive school to get into, and I just assumed I wouldn't get in.

[1065] The fact that I got in not only surprises me, but also served as a reminder that despite mental and physical illnesses that convinced me otherwise, I am smart and can do anything I put my mind to.

[1066] That's right.

[1067] Happier than I've ever been and so fucking proud, hashtag fucking hooray.

[1068] I feel teary about these.

[1069] Fucking hooray.

[1070] That's big.

[1071] Yeah.

[1072] That's an important life.

[1073] An accomplishment and milestone.

[1074] These are all like big milestoney.

[1075] That's beating the odds.

[1076] You know, that's great.

[1077] What was that person's name?

[1078] Oh, sorry.

[1079] My girlfriend is the moon.

[1080] My girlfriend is the moon.

[1081] Congratulations, my girlfriend is the moon.

[1082] Love it.

[1083] And on top of everything else, your girlfriend is the moon.

[1084] I mean, you lucky.

[1085] I bet she's, I bet she's romantic.

[1086] She's just, she just stares down at you all the time with that glow.

[1087] Okay, this is from social media.

[1088] It's from B -Day underscore 23.

[1089] Yeah.

[1090] B -day 23.

[1091] My fucking hooray is that I just got home from getting my first dose of the COVID vaccine.

[1092] I've been teaching my second graders in person five days a week since August.

[1093] Oh, my God.

[1094] That's so frightening.

[1095] And this is the first time I've had any sense of peace all school year.

[1096] Wow.

[1097] Today, I am especially thankful to all the incredible people that made it possible for me to have this vaccine.

[1098] Shout out to my fellow teachers.

[1099] We are all kicking ass and doing the very best we can.

[1100] Thank you, Karen and Georgia, for all you do to bring joy to my Mondays and Thursdays.

[1101] I appreciate it more than you know SSDGM.

[1102] Wow.

[1103] I mean, that is a really beautiful thing.

[1104] My sister is a teacher and my dad has a, what do you call it, a pre -existing issue.

[1105] And they both have gotten their second shots.

[1106] Such a really.

[1107] And it is, I can't wait until we are in summer and everybody gets to feel that feeling.

[1108] It's going to be.

[1109] It's going to be.

[1110] It's not going to be over.

[1111] It's still going to be a risk and people are still going to be affected from it.

[1112] But we're going to have a handle on it a little bit.

[1113] And it's going to feel like I don't think everyone's going to realize until then how frightening these past year has been until we're all on the other side of terrible.

[1114] Well, you know why?

[1115] I think it's once people start really getting to enjoy themselves in a normal way again, that's when it's going to be like, oh, wow.

[1116] Wow, this has been unbelievable.

[1117] I tried on a dress the other day when I was, I'm in, like, cleaning out my closet.

[1118] And I almost started crying.

[1119] I put on little heels and a purse that went with it.

[1120] And I was like, this is the first time I've matched.

[1121] I haven't been wearing slippers.

[1122] I've matched a purse to my shoes.

[1123] You were doing some going outside cosplay.

[1124] Yeah.

[1125] And then I put it all away.

[1126] And there were fucking cobwebs covering my high heel shoe shoe.

[1127] shelf as if I get in there with a duster every once in a while sloppy joe oh we have to end on that that was amazing all right well then thanks everybody for listening we love you yes we do and you know keep up the good work everybody and stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye sloppy joe loppy joe Elvis do you want a cookie Ah -h -h -h -h -h -h.