Brie Larson

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Randall Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman.

[2] Hi there.

[3] How are you doing?

[4] I'm doing good.

[5] It's still my birthday.

[6] Well, now it's getting really confusing.

[7] It's your birthday week.

[8] It's my birthday today and it was my birthday month.

[9] Six days ago.

[10] Yeah, but it's still your birthday.

[11] Now listen, Bree Larson, we love her.

[12] Oh, wow.

[13] This was really fun.

[14] Oh, my gosh.

[15] I just, I loved her.

[16] as a, for lack of a better word, a Mae Whitman type.

[17] Over the years, like spunky, creative, artistic, fun.

[18] She would pop up in all these great movies.

[19] And then I saw her in Room, which of course she won the Academy Award for.

[20] She's incredible.

[21] And of course, she's Captain Marvel.

[22] She's the first to have her own Marvel movie as a female and made a billion dollars.

[23] Wow.

[24] Yeah.

[25] That's incredible.

[26] Yeah, it's very impressive.

[27] And also, as you'll learn, she's become a gym rat, which is really fun.

[28] She has a new podcast out called Learning Lots with Brie Larson and Jesse Ennis.

[29] Also, little BTS, our friend Rob.

[30] Oh, we found out Rob is double -crossing us in this episode, which is pretty fun for the listener.

[31] Wobby -Wob.

[32] Yeah, Wobby -Wob's got his, he's got his beak.

[33] He's got his beak in a lot of honey pots.

[34] Yeah, he's dipping his beak in a lot of different little pots.

[35] And you know what?

[36] Good for Wobby -Wob.

[37] Good for Wob.

[38] We do find out real time.

[39] We were chumps, but that is okay.

[40] That is okay.

[41] Come to find out Wabi Wobb new Brie and produces her podcast.

[42] And Rob's son Calvin is on an episode of Bree's podcast and it's the cutest thing you could possibly imagine.

[43] So also check that out.

[44] Yes, the podcast is called Learning Lots with Bree Larson and Jesse Ennis.

[45] Please enjoy Brie Larson.

[46] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[47] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[48] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[49] Hi, hi.

[50] Hi.

[51] Hi.

[52] Bye.

[53] Bye.

[54] It was such a good combo.

[55] You're in England?

[56] I'm in England.

[57] Yeah.

[58] I follow you on Instagram and I'm watching you work out and it feels very much like a California garage and I had it wrong.

[59] Yeah, the beauty of Instagram.

[60] So you're in England working out in a garage.

[61] You're in a garage, right?

[62] Can we agree upon that?

[63] Not currently.

[64] I'm not currently in a garage.

[65] The video you saw was old.

[66] I hate to ruin that for you, but yeah, that's an old video.

[67] I'm much stronger.

[68] I'm much buffer than that video.

[69] You can't even imagine how strong I am now.

[70] I can't really show what I'm doing right now.

[71] Yeah.

[72] You can't say what you're doing either, can you?

[73] Or can you?

[74] No, I can't, but I think in my omission, you know what it is that I'm talking about.

[75] Yeah, exactly.

[76] I'm a mass singer.

[77] I couldn't be good in any longer.

[78] Do you like London?

[79] I do.

[80] We're going in September.

[81] Kristen's shooting there for a couple months.

[82] So we'll be there in September.

[83] So yes, we'll come to dinner at your place.

[84] Please.

[85] Oh, please.

[86] Come over.

[87] Let's do this.

[88] I've got a cold plunge.

[89] We just did a cold plunge for the first time.

[90] Oh, hated it, loved it, all of it.

[91] That's exactly how it works.

[92] I mean, you did it right.

[93] How long did you do it for?

[94] One minute first and then two minutes.

[95] But we had people do 20 minutes in our group.

[96] That's ridiculous.

[97] I don't even think that does anything.

[98] That's just a flex.

[99] It was a major flex, but I was impressed.

[100] I just shout out to Cameron.

[101] He just sat there like he was dead.

[102] And then he got out 20 minutes later.

[103] And it didn't make any sense to me. I do three and a half minutes.

[104] And my like everywhere I have arthritis is just fucking killing.

[105] Like my wrist hurt inside there.

[106] But you get that elated feeling afterwards.

[107] It's been the best thing for my moods.

[108] And it's like a crazy thing to talk about because, I mean, it's not.

[109] really super practical, having bags of ice in a bathtub or an ice, whatever it is you're doing, having a hotel ice machine.

[110] Like, there's no version of it that feels like scalable in any way.

[111] Yeah.

[112] Yeah.

[113] But when I'm doing it consistently, because I have a mind that tends to go a little to the depression.

[114] It like wants to go to a hopeless place.

[115] It likes it there.

[116] So the cold plunge just like shocks my system.

[117] And then the rest of the day, I'm like, at least I'm not in the cold plunge.

[118] Yeah.

[119] That's my bright side.

[120] One of my favorite quotes from Frank Sinatra, And it's almost made me drink over the last 16 years, which is, he said, I feel bad for people who don't drink because when they wake up in the morning, that's the best they're going to feel all day.

[121] And that's largely true if you're sober.

[122] Like that you wake up, that's about as good as it's going to feel physically.

[123] But you're inducing that with the cold plunge.

[124] So it's like the cold plunge makes you fucking miserable.

[125] And the rest of the day is just going to get better.

[126] Oh, yeah.

[127] It's only going up from there.

[128] Let me tell you.

[129] Because I'll go from ice to sauna.

[130] And I love the heat.

[131] So that for me is like, oh, it's really getting good.

[132] I've already accomplished.

[133] something.

[134] I did something I didn't want to do, which is getting the ice.

[135] And one of my favorite parts of the day is this like second or half second when I'm like thrusting my body into the ice, when I know what I'm doing, but I haven't yet experienced the cold yet.

[136] And that like anticipation feeling is so exciting.

[137] I really love it.

[138] And then I love getting out of the ice tub.

[139] That's another really great feeling.

[140] And how long do you do it?

[141] Three minutes?

[142] It depends.

[143] I try to get to three minutes.

[144] It depends on how consistently I'm doing it.

[145] If I'm doing it every day, I can do three minutes, no problem.

[146] But the second I get out of the cycle of it, then I got to start working my way back up again.

[147] Is your skin always been this impeccable?

[148] Like, I wonder if you're cycling through the hot and cold because your skin looks insane.

[149] And I'm not one that even notices skin, but don't you think that looks like that?

[150] It's so funny.

[151] I'm doing this podcast with my best friend Jesse.

[152] And it's over Zoom.

[153] And every time she says the same thing.

[154] She's like, what is going on?

[155] I'm I'm like, I don't, no, maybe it is the ice in the heat.

[156] I have no idea.

[157] I'm not doing anything crazy.

[158] I'm still a stress case.

[159] Oh, fresh London air.

[160] Yeah.

[161] You don't have all this smog here.

[162] Of course.

[163] That London fog.

[164] That'll really moisturize that London fog.

[165] But also you could have a real good, like, lens on your computer.

[166] You know, that's like softening or.

[167] On my iPad?

[168] Yeah, on your iPad, a very special iPad lens.

[169] I love that I'm on my iPad because I couldn't figure out how to turn my computer on and you think I have a lens on my iPad.

[170] An auxiliary lens.

[171] I don't know how to do that.

[172] Before we get super into anything, we have to shout out our mutual friend, Troy.

[173] Oh, do you work with Troy?

[174] Shout out to Troy.

[175] I do.

[176] I put him in the category of these agents that are suspiciously handsome.

[177] Like Patrick Whitesell was one of these guys, like he was more attractive than all of his clients, which included Ben and Matt.

[178] Troy is like, I don't know, six three X lacrosse player or rower, some kind of athlete, just brimming with confidence.

[179] Yeah, he's definitely like athlete.

[180] Optimism.

[181] Nice, nice guy.

[182] Everything's easy.

[183] Great at confrontation.

[184] Love someone who's good at confrontation.

[185] Well, what's your definition of good at confrontation?

[186] Because I love confrontation, but I don't know that you would label it good.

[187] Do you wait too long, Dax?

[188] Is that what your confrontation is?

[189] You build up and then explain.

[190] Wow.

[191] Ding, ding, ding.

[192] Really nice.

[193] And I'll add into it.

[194] What happens is I have this whole story about myself that I'm really easy going and nice.

[195] And so I don't say anything to anybody.

[196] And then as I'm about to blow up, I'm resentful at them that they forced me to have to do this thing I don't want to do.

[197] God, it's still relatable.

[198] Yes, I've done the same exact thing.

[199] The last, like, I don't know, year and a half or two years, I feel like the universe has confronted me with the need to be able to confront and just confront sooner.

[200] I just go, I don't like.

[201] I don't like.

[202] like that, because I'll find, especially with smaller things, I'll just be like, it's not worth it.

[203] And now I'm like, no, you know, it's not worth it, being uncomfortable, and then having a resentment, and then being weird to somebody forever.

[204] Like, that's not it.

[205] Might not just get it over with and just say, not my preference.

[206] Yeah.

[207] The thing I have a hard time navigating is there's this principle in AA.

[208] Well, there's two.

[209] One is we can't afford to have resentments because we'll use over it.

[210] So it's like not an option for me to be carrying resentment.

[211] So I do have to clear stuff up constantly.

[212] But then there's this other principle, which is like acceptance is the answer to all my problems.

[213] So it's like the quicker I can accept this is life on life's terms and I stop fighting against it, I'll probably find peace.

[214] So some people's behavior, I'm trying to go like, is this a moment where I just need to accept?

[215] Like, hey, this is how this person is.

[216] I don't love this aspect, but I can accept it and have that expectation and then I won't be upset about it.

[217] But is that leading to a resentment?

[218] I find that a little bit hard to navigate.

[219] which is which always.

[220] Oh, well, I think it's just whatever's true.

[221] That's what I've gotten to with it, is like not forcing myself to accept something when I'm not ready to.

[222] There's the intellectual part of me that's like, yeah, of course, like love everybody.

[223] I get it.

[224] But then like, do I really feel that?

[225] Because I'll find myself skipping ahead.

[226] I'll be like, well, I know I'm wrong.

[227] I know I shouldn't have this resentment or I know I shouldn't feel this way.

[228] So I'm just going to act like I don't.

[229] But it doesn't really work.

[230] That's just another way of us.

[231] tricking ourselves into not confronting.

[232] It's just like, we're like, I'm a nice person.

[233] So I'm just going to be okay with them.

[234] It's weird, because two things are true.

[235] People are really good at lying themselves.

[236] Like, they're very unaware of the lies they tell themselves.

[237] And also, the body's keeping the score.

[238] So it's like you may be able to, in your mind, the voice in your head, quiet it.

[239] But that's not to say that your heart rate isn't different or your anxiety level hasn't gone up or cortisol is not flushing through your body.

[240] Oh, of course.

[241] Yeah.

[242] And sometimes there's like the cortisol all those things then make it even harder to access what's true what's living in us yeah available and we make stories up like in broad terms like one of the last times I had to confront somebody I put it off for like a year or maybe two and it's because I had all these stories oh well they're going through this and they're going through that and like I should be more caring I should be more of this and then I had this moment where I was like if we got rid of the stories then you just confront something and you don't have all of the charge around it because the story isn't there so you can just say like hey this felt kind of shitty or my feelings were hurt or I might be wrong but this is what I got from our last phone call and it made me feel this way instead of then like blah blah and it's like all this stuff comes up that has nothing to do with just the simplicity of this is what I felt and then being open to how they handle it which sometimes isn't good I'd say I'm out of 50 50 track record at this point 50 50 50 it goes well or it doesn't that's great I think 50 50 is totally something to be proud of here's my question do you find that there's a consistent incentive for you to avoid conflict?

[243] Is your fear consistent?

[244] Like, oh, no, this person will now not think I'm nice or they won't think I'm blank.

[245] People pleasing.

[246] Yeah, is it like people pleasing motivated?

[247] Always people pleasing motivated.

[248] People pleasing mixed with, I must be wrong.

[249] I don't look like a fool for saying something when I'm obviously wrong.

[250] It's just my opinion.

[251] That can't be right.

[252] Okay, so a story I have.

[253] is I'm very suspicious of people who want to homeschool their kids.

[254] I start by not understanding why they wouldn't want their kids with all the other kids, right?

[255] And then I get into like psychoanalyzing why I think they are too afraid of the public school system.

[256] And then I'm filling in all these details.

[257] And then there's someone like you who's like really productive and smart and it seems like self -motivated to learn and homeschooled.

[258] So I'm wondering like, what do you think of the stereotypes of homeschooling?

[259] Are they true?

[260] Are they not?

[261] true?

[262] What was your experience doing that?

[263] It's really hard for me to wrap my head around.

[264] Well, mine might be different than what you're talking about because I asked to be homeschooled.

[265] I did public school for some of elementary school.

[266] And then I did one year of junior high.

[267] So I got like a little taste of the like, I have multiple teachers.

[268] I walk around.

[269] Ooh, the bell rings.

[270] Yes, it's romantic, honey.

[271] I don't think I really fit in at my junior high.

[272] It was fine.

[273] I just felt like it was what I was supposed to do.

[274] And then high school, I lasted a day and a half.

[275] And then I called my mom and asked her to pick me up.

[276] And then I explained, it just wasn't for me. I was like, I really love learning.

[277] It's not that.

[278] I like learning in the order that I want to learn it in.

[279] And she totally got it.

[280] So I ended up finishing and graduating much earlier than my classmates because I just kind of zoomed through it.

[281] But I really loved it.

[282] And it worked for me. But my sister was the exact opposite.

[283] it.

[284] She did all of school, then went to college, is now a teacher.

[285] So, like, she went to the same schools that I did and just had, like, a totally different relationship and experience to it.

[286] So my mom was really cool.

[287] And she just let us kind of teach ourselves in a way.

[288] Like, whatever we said we wanted to do, whatever we were interested in, she just supported us and loved us.

[289] That takes so much confidence.

[290] Because I think if I were the parent of you, I would be like, okay, I'm going to let her do this thing she wants.

[291] But then she won't be prepared.

[292] for the real world.

[293] Like, she'll have to go out and she's going to go to a job and then she'll get to the job and go, I don't like this either.

[294] Like, that would be my fear of, like, I'm not raising a kid that's equipped to enter the real world.

[295] I love your mom's confidence because here you are thriving in the real world by all measures.

[296] So I would have been completely wrong to have been so fearful that you're not learning these key things you need to, like, work with others.

[297] Yeah.

[298] Well, you know, I think even my mom and I, we talk about it, we look back on it and we're like, that was pretty wild that we did that.

[299] I mean, there's so many steps of my childhood that it's like, wow, I can't believe we did that.

[300] I can't believe that I told my mom when I was something like five or six years old or something like that, that I knew what my Dharma was and I wanted to be an actor and my mom listened to it.

[301] And then at seven or eight, we packed up the car and went to L .A. for pilot season with like $3 ,000 in my mom's bank account that we got from doing a pamphlet for like the Shell gas stations.

[302] It was like a how -to -do CPR pamphlet.

[303] We both modeled in it.

[304] Yes, we got about $3 ,000.

[305] It was a big gig.

[306] It was very exciting.

[307] You know, you'd pull up at a shell gas station.

[308] I'd be like, am I here?

[309] Am I in the pamphlet?

[310] So that allowed us to go to pilot season and go out for a couple of months.

[311] And I mean, just thinking where I am now and that it was the whim of a child that I was like, this is what I want to do.

[312] My mom followed it.

[313] I want to be homeschooled.

[314] She followed it.

[315] I mean, it's not normal, but that that trust is how I've been able to be where I am.

[316] I feel like I got like a head start on getting to be myself.

[317] Yeah, being responsible, making decisions.

[318] I imagine, too, if you make that decision comes with this great responsibility, which is like my mom's trusting me to do this and by God I better actually do it.

[319] Like, She was very, very cool in letting me try it this way.

[320] I better deliver.

[321] Like, I better actually learn everything and try.

[322] Oh, no. We're having so many Internet problems, aren't you?

[323] We are.

[324] This is making me feel sad.

[325] Monica's getting really sad and nervous.

[326] I'm sad, too.

[327] I'm nervous.

[328] Because I want to connect quickly.

[329] I know, because we love her.

[330] We like her a lot.

[331] I know.

[332] I want to connect, too.

[333] Do you think it's on, is it on my end?

[334] Probably because we're on my house Wi -Fi, which is solid.

[335] Hold on.

[336] Let me, I'll try and move somewhere.

[337] I haven't had a problem in this spot before, but it could be a little bit us.

[338] It could be us, you're saying?

[339] Oh, and he's connected through the internet.

[340] Rob's really clever.

[341] Hold on.

[342] About the internet.

[343] We're going to do this great.

[344] Oh, this kind of good.

[345] We're going to get like a privilege point of view.

[346] Well, she's got real shit, Rob.

[347] Of course, because she has her own podcast.

[348] She's got the real mic.

[349] She's got the real little box.

[350] Oh, yeah.

[351] I've got the stuff that Rob told me to get.

[352] Oh, my God.

[353] Okay.

[354] Rob, Rob, do you produce her podcast?

[355] Oh my God.

[356] I didn't know this.

[357] Wow.

[358] We're learning so much right now.

[359] Rob is such a traitor.

[360] This is embarrassing.

[361] We've been caught with our slacks down that you guys have this independent relationship of us and no one's saying a word.

[362] I feel like a fucking, I've been cuckled.

[363] Do you want Brie Larson?

[364] Like they're not best friends.

[365] Right.

[366] Oh my God.

[367] We don't want to text or anything.

[368] You don't?

[369] You should.

[370] He's a good texter.

[371] And if you ever want to know something to eat anywhere on the planet, text Rob.

[372] He knows the best place to eat ever.

[373] everywhere.

[374] Yeah, that's his life.

[375] Is this better?

[376] This is a trillion times better, Bree.

[377] Okay, good.

[378] Yes.

[379] This house I'm staying in is like multiple floors, so I think I was just too high.

[380] Okay.

[381] I'm going to update my assessment of your skin.

[382] It's even better with great Wi -Fi.

[383] Yeah, it's really glow.

[384] Really?

[385] It got even better.

[386] It got even better.

[387] This is exciting stuff.

[388] I can't wait for your listeners to hear about how great my skin is.

[389] That was why I came.

[390] You didn't know.

[391] I was just for that.

[392] Oh, wow.

[393] Well, that brings up an interesting thing that we Well, I wouldn't say, I guess I'm the only one wrestling with it, is like, like, Kate Beck and Sal was here.

[394] Monica and I are both, like, completely awestruck by her beauty.

[395] And, of course, I don't want to bring that up.

[396] But at the same time, I'm like, that's a weird dynamic now that I can't acknowledge that.

[397] But that's fine.

[398] I'm just thinking out loud.

[399] What do you think about that?

[400] Wait, I just want to understand.

[401] You can't tell someone that they're beautiful now?

[402] Well, I think it's dicey.

[403] Like, of course I would, hmm.

[404] Like, he can't open the interview with, like, like, oh my God, you're so beautiful.

[405] I mean, he could and he does.

[406] I wish you would for mine.

[407] Oh, okay, great.

[408] So, I think that's the answer because, like, Polar, are you friends with Polar?

[409] I saw she was on your podcast.

[410] Yeah, yeah.

[411] Yeah, like, I told her how hot she looked on this commercial the other day, and she was like, God bless you, Babers.

[412] Keep telling me. Like, when I was younger, I probably wouldn't want to hear that, but now just everything you say can be positive about my looks.

[413] So I guess it's just person to person.

[414] You know what it is?

[415] Here's what it all is.

[416] There's nothing you could say to me that would make me happier than you're hot i want to be the things i'm not you know what i'm saying so if you would maybe broke onto the scene and like a charlie's angels type thing and then i was like you're so beautiful you'd be like get over it i'm a great actor but you're already a fucking great actor we know that you started it with your great actor so now just let me be hot yeah you're hot there we go yeah just please let me just be hot is that too much to ask to be hot yes just tell me that i'm hot i already know i'm a good I want more I'm kind of serious though Yeah I want every I want all the things mostly that I don't have And then I'm not entitled to Well we all want the things we don't have Yeah exactly I deeply want to just be somebody else But here I am Here we are Which is so like this is what the audience needs to hear That you want to be somebody else Captain Marvel They want to be you 100 % Yeah 100 % No but this is like It's something that I've been very interested in this because the big joke is that everybody wants to be somebody else right so if everybody wants to be somebody else then we're all chasing something and then there's no real thing there's nothing and that trips me out so much and until you can sort of really get that for yourself and understand that it is very very probable that the person that you admire the most and want to be the most like really has a hard time with themselves it's so freeing oh can i tell you that's one of the best parts about doing the show is like the people that sit down like well there's no way that this person doesn't know they're at 10 they're like no this person hates their fucking nose and their chin it's crazy we're all fucking nuts i don't know who looks in the mirror and they go like there he is i don't know anybody like that i'm sure there are people like that but i also think we also have created like we praise being humble about your looks and so we don't fully just even own like I love it when my friends are like, don't I look good?

[417] Is that the best?

[418] I love it when my friends are like, give me a compliment.

[419] I think I look amazing today.

[420] That is so attractive to me. And yet I think we also create a culture where we're supposed to be like, oh, I don't know, like, probably not, but like, what do you think?

[421] And I do it.

[422] I do it all the time.

[423] I want to be at the top of your lowest expectations.

[424] And then I want to just supersede those.

[425] Sure, sure.

[426] But yeah, that seems harder than just like being like, I'm good at something, whatever that is.

[427] I look good.

[428] I feel good.

[429] I am good.

[430] Whatever those things are.

[431] Like it's even hard for you to hear you be like, you're a great actor or whatever.

[432] I'm like, ha ha.

[433] Like I made a joke out of it.

[434] I couldn't even just accept that.

[435] I can't take it.

[436] I'm with you.

[437] Well, ironically, all I want is praise and approval.

[438] And then when I receive it, I fucking can't stand it.

[439] It's so weird.

[440] Yeah.

[441] Are you friends with Mae Whitman?

[442] I know May. Yeah.

[443] I know May from like when we were a little kid.

[444] acting like we went up against each other same jobs when we were like eight yeah yeah i assumed that when i was reading about you and then i thought first of all i would hate to be up against me but what one interesting thing oh yeah no i never got a job against me let's make this very clear let the record show may always got every job this weird thing happened to all of us on the cast of parenthood which was quickly it was revealed that she was by far the biggest powerhouse on the cast but From my point of view, I was, I guess, 37 or something, and she was 21.

[445] And I was like, why is this kid so fucking great?

[446] And then I come to find out, oh, she's been doing it since she was three.

[447] So she's really been doing it like 10 years longer than I had at that point.

[448] I'm like, oh, okay, that makes sense.

[449] And I have to imagine that same thing happened to people with you.

[450] They're like, wait, why is this?

[451] This is interesting.

[452] How does she know what she's doing?

[453] Yeah.

[454] She should not know.

[455] I wouldn't say that it's usually a positive thing.

[456] Like, it's strangely a learning curve sometimes on certain jobs.

[457] Like, people are disarmed by the fact that I know so much about what's happening on set.

[458] Yeah, yeah.

[459] Because I've been around it my whole life.

[460] And I have such, it's like, I've put in so many hours that it's so innate.

[461] And so I think it is surprising.

[462] It's surprising to me too.

[463] And I'm like, oh, I guess I've been an actor for 20 years or longer now.

[464] How old am I?

[465] She was the youngest person ever admitted to the American Conservatory Theater in San Francisco at six.

[466] Oh, I thought you're saying that Monica was.

[467] I was so impressed.

[468] Isn't that great?

[469] Yeah, if you heard that about her, you'd be like, what?

[470] You'd be so blown away.

[471] I know.

[472] And then you said it about me and I was like, oh, okay.

[473] That was an accident.

[474] Something happened.

[475] There's a clerical error.

[476] I don't know if I still am the youngest, by the way.

[477] I'm convinced there must be some, like, really prolific four -year -old that got in.

[478] I have a six -year -old in the notion that she'd tell me she'd want to go do something and that I would take that serious.

[479] Like, I got to really do it.

[480] I got to take her serious because look what happened because if, if, Delta told me tomorrow she wants to go to Harvard right now.

[481] If she wanted to become the youngest member of anything, Chuckie Cheese fucking Big Coin Club, I don't know.

[482] Anything, I would just be like, wow, you're going to try to be the youngest of this thing.

[483] Well, remember, so she did say she wanted to skip first grade.

[484] Because she wants to catch her sister.

[485] And we all kind of dismissed it.

[486] Obviously, she's in kindergarten.

[487] And then she started, like, reading all these books.

[488] She took her sister's books from second grade and started, like, cramming at nine.

[489] I think she's going to skip first grade.

[490] We all dismissed it.

[491] And maybe that makes it better.

[492] Maybe because everyone's like, okay, maybe she's like really going to push herself.

[493] She's got a ax to grind.

[494] Yeah.

[495] I like this kid.

[496] Oh, you would love her.

[497] She's, she's so spunky and perfect.

[498] We call her Shirley Farley.

[499] She's a mix between Shirley Temple and Chris Farley.

[500] Like it's it's the best combo I've ever seen.

[501] I just stare at her and boy life's going to be so easy for you i can't wait to watch okay back to you though so the thing that i really would get sympathetic for may on is that some of the people in the ad department and whatnot even some of the producers they maybe didn't recognize that she had been doing it longer than them and so the respect she was given was more appropriate of someone that was playing a 17 year old not even forget the fact that she was actually 21 but she was almost being treated as the age of her character and given the same kind of respect, which it would have been maddening for me if I were May. Like, hey, no, I will pick my fucking hair.

[502] I've been doing this for 20 years.

[503] I don't want to hear what this man thinks my hair should be.

[504] All that stuff.

[505] Like I could say, oh, I want my hair to be this.

[506] And everyone's like, yeah, okay, whatever.

[507] You know your character.

[508] That would have been maddening for me if I were her.

[509] Oh, yeah, of course.

[510] I mean, I still deal with it.

[511] I try to talk about it frequently because I worked so hard and I had this.

[512] idea in my head like, oh, once I reach blah, blah, blah, then I'll finally be respected.

[513] And it never changed, really.

[514] The truth is it didn't change until I changed.

[515] It changed once I was unbothered by it, which seemed so bizarre to me because it was like, it was all so external.

[516] And I was like, I'll never get away from this thing, this oppressive feeling.

[517] And then once I sort of diminished the effect that it had on me, it's funny.

[518] Like some of it's just absurd.

[519] And some of it I have a lot of sympathy for because some people like director and producer, despite the fact that they can be older than me and they could have incredible credits, chances are I've had more time on set than them because I haven't had to do the pre -production stuff and I won't have to do the post stuff.

[520] So there's a higher probability assuming that I'm working, I'm booking jobs, that I have just more on -set experience.

[521] It doesn't mean I have more pre -production experience.

[522] I have more post experience.

[523] But when I'm meeting these people in this arena and I'm also in a different place, I'm on my mark.

[524] which is at the epicenter of everybody.

[525] I feel everybody's energy.

[526] I know what everybody's job is.

[527] It's part of my job, I think, to know what everybody's job is.

[528] So I see all this stuff.

[529] And because of my job, I feel like people, they talk to me. Like crew members will open up, will say things.

[530] And so I sort of get this interesting view of all these different things that I don't know if producers always get the chance to see or hear.

[531] Maybe they have a different relationship because of their role.

[532] Everybody's playing their role, right?

[533] they invite you into their tribe more than they like the camera department is going to invite you into their tribe because it's you too you two are going to make this thing work we're dancing yeah yeah and the producer's not going to ever share that with the camera department they're not going to be interdependent in that way where you can become grateful for one another because if you do your job great man and they're there and they did their thing there's just this beautiful moment of like god all the things worked at once and it's really just you guys that are deciding that.

[534] 100%.

[535] Totally.

[536] It's so special.

[537] And it's one of the things I actually love about doing these, like, bigger movies is the level of craftsmanship, the specialty things.

[538] You know, people crafting alien da -da -da -da's and the costumes and all of that stuff and building the sets.

[539] I mean, it's just, I'm in awe of it.

[540] I'm a huge fan of Disneyland.

[541] So to me, it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe there's people that have, like, dedicated their life to knowing how to make fake rocks or know how to make fur costumes or, you know, whatever it is.

[542] I mean, there's just insane amount of details that go into these things.

[543] I'll get hit with just this profound sense of gratitude.

[544] It's almost like everything slows down and I'm looking around going, I can't believe all of these people and all their own path in their life have brought us all here in this moment to do this strange fight sequence.

[545] Like we're all here.

[546] Whatever our past is, I don't know.

[547] Whatever our future is, I don't know, but we're here together right now.

[548] It's so special.

[549] It is.

[550] And as you climb the ladder of budget, yeah, things change.

[551] Like, I remember the first few things I did where there was special effects.

[552] There'd be like two people.

[553] They'd come with a van, blah, blah, blah.

[554] Then I did this movie Zethora and like Stan Winston did the creatures.

[555] So to see like the Stan Winston, am I saying that's him, right?

[556] Stan Winston?

[557] He created everything, the dinosaurs in Jurassic Park and I think E .T. and like the most legendary kind of creature maker.

[558] World class legendary artists over the course of 200 years, when they look back on film, he'll be one of the greats like Cecil B. DeMille.

[559] And yeah, here I'm watching this person do this.

[560] It's pretty special.

[561] It is.

[562] And I get to see the people behind it.

[563] You know, a lot of people just see what we make, like what they made.

[564] But I get to like see the people.

[565] And it's so special.

[566] When you do a really small independent movie, like something with a budget of a million or less, a family forms on those type of movies, I think, a little more than other ones.

[567] just because it's smaller, it's probably accelerated shooting schedule, people are working harder, they're more vulnerable, like all these things come together to make it a real shared struggle when you do a little movie.

[568] Have you found that as you've gotten into the huge ones, you can still have that experience?

[569] Oh, yeah.

[570] I make sure of that.

[571] Like, it's very important to me that I know everyone's name or as many people's name as possible.

[572] The bigger the movies get, the hard.

[573] it is.

[574] And it's hard with the mask for me, too, because you don't have the facial recognition.

[575] It's just a little bit more difficult, I think, to have that shared connection because we have to be far away from one another and constantly paying attention to the time we're around one another and all that.

[576] But it is really important to me that it feels the same.

[577] And to me, it's like an independent film can feel like you can make it a movie in itself.

[578] It's like a camping film.

[579] Like it's very intimate and rag tag.

[580] I don't even know.

[581] what ragged head means.

[582] Is that offensive?

[583] I don't know.

[584] But whatever, you know, like that feeling of like, oh, we're all in this together and like, oh, what are we going to do?

[585] Like, we want this dolly shot.

[586] We're just going to put on the back of this truck and like, whatever.

[587] Someone got a wheelchair.

[588] They stole a wheelchair from Vons.

[589] We're going to use that as a dolly.

[590] All of those things.

[591] And there's a fun and like almost youthfulness, I think, or at least it's youthful for me because that was what I was doing in my youth.

[592] And then the bigger movies feel more like an epic.

[593] They're six months long, huge, bigger than all of them.

[594] us.

[595] Yeah.

[596] And there's something awe -inspiring about it.

[597] And when I meet people that haven't done it before and are on a set that I'm on like this, I'm like, listen, we have enough time together that we are going to love each other, hate each other, realize that we have more in common than we realized.

[598] And then potentially dislike each other again.

[599] Yeah.

[600] It's enough time for us to change our opinions at least four times.

[601] And that's just a different thing.

[602] I was much more used to on independent films, it's like, you start working, everyone likes each other, you kind of figure out, maybe a couple people, I'm not going to, I'm not going to see them again, hopefully.

[603] I'm not going to continue on with them.

[604] And then it's over.

[605] Whereas the first longer film, I was like, oh my gosh, I have to figure out how to make this work.

[606] I am going to have to keep seeing this person.

[607] It's not a one -night stand.

[608] It's not a weekend fling.

[609] This is a relationship.

[610] We're in this.

[611] And I have to figure out how to love this person.

[612] Yeah.

[613] And we're going to see each other on our worst days for sure over the next six months like we're both going to have our shittiest days and we're going to be together like that's ahead for us yes on like a somewhat public stage yeah yeah yeah that's the other thing like the actor is like so front and center that like your energy whoever you like have a problem with aren't getting along with or really good along with like everybody sees yeah and i find it to be for the most part a really good feeling to know that I can set the tone.

[614] It was much harder for me when I was dependent on other people to set the tone.

[615] Like I like being in charge of that aspect of it.

[616] Not a hundred percent of my life I want to do that.

[617] But when I choose to, I really like stepping into that.

[618] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[619] We've all been there.

[620] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers and strange rashes.

[621] Though our minds, tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[622] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[623] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Balin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[624] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[625] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[626] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[627] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[628] What's up guys?

[629] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[630] Every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[631] And I don't mean just friends.

[632] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[633] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[634] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[635] Does it ever feel like there's so much pressure to be, I mean, obviously there is so much pressure as an actor to be good and to perform.

[636] But then when you're setting the tone, there's pressure to be, for lack of a better word, nice all the time to make it a happy set and stuff like that.

[637] like there's all these stories about like this person on set not even like the huge stories like the blow up stories but like oh this person on set was like not very friendly and I'm like well so like maybe they don't want to be friendly that day like they're just a person but because there's all eyes are on them everything I think gets magnified that seems like a lot of pressure I don't feel that way anymore and it's not to say that I don't have my periods of time where I fall in to people pleasing.

[638] It's something I have to work on because I do fall into that trap.

[639] But I've had too many jobs.

[640] There was one in particular where I tried so hard to be nice, to never ask for anything, to do everything that everyone asked of me and to do it like first take.

[641] Like I want the first take to be perfect.

[642] It was a real mental problem.

[643] I really wanted everybody to say, Brie A plus from every angle.

[644] And people didn't like me. There were people that, that didn't like me. And I had to come to terms with, yeah, people are just not going to like me. Even when I'm trying to be my best and be my nicest, quote unquote, and so if that's what's going to happen, if the end result is that some people are going to walk away being like, oh, what a bitch.

[645] Then I might as well just get what I wanted in the first place.

[646] Yeah.

[647] Yeah.

[648] Yeah.

[649] I agree.

[650] You have no control over what they're bringing to it, how they're going to react to you.

[651] It's about them too.

[652] It's not about you.

[653] Like their perception of you is most likely about them.

[654] Yeah.

[655] There's too many narratives happening for me to get into it.

[656] I'm curious.

[657] So your mom and dad got divorced when you were seven and you and mom and sister moved down to L .A. at a very similar situation.

[658] But I took the role of I could see how incredibly hard this was for my mother to work full time and raise us.

[659] And the way I showed her, I loved her, was like, I'm not going to be one of your problems.

[660] I'm not going to ask you for cool shoes.

[661] I'm not going to ask you for cool jeans.

[662] I'm not going to do anything.

[663] I'm going to be not a problem for you.

[664] That's how I'm going to help.

[665] Did you have any of that?

[666] I'm sure I did.

[667] I was pretty quiet and shy growing up.

[668] And my mom says that I was always very reasonable.

[669] Like even as like a little kid, I'd be like, could I have that?

[670] My mom say no. And I go, okay, maybe next time.

[671] I think it was like in my nature to just be like, oh, okay.

[672] Like I think to a point where it sometimes erodes my stomach lining that I'm always like, oh, there's another perspective, push myself to the side.

[673] And so I do think, in hindsight, this leap, it didn't happen right away.

[674] I think I was too young to understand, like, the sacrifice that my mom had made.

[675] I started to feel the stress and the pressure probably once I started to hit my teens, more like 14, 15.

[676] When peers I had in school were figuring out college, what they wanted to do, that sort of thing, I was still not really working.

[677] I didn't really have that much going on.

[678] And yet I truly believed that I was supposed to be an actor and I didn't know how to not do it.

[679] But also everyone was telling me no. So I didn't make any sense.

[680] Then I started to feel the stress of what's my fallback?

[681] What do I do?

[682] How do I not become a burden to my family?

[683] That was a very stressful period of time.

[684] I'd say like really like a lot of crisis probably from like 15 to gosh early 20s because I didn't have like consistent work I was always on the verge of like my last dollar at least half a dozen times I was like at the grocery store and they're like it's declined you have zero dollars you know what were you using to regulate at that time like how are you dealing with that the stress yeah I moved out at 18 so for 15 to 18 I really just was creative.

[685] I'd write songs.

[686] I'd film myself.

[687] I was upset.

[688] I would, like, film myself crying and then, like, watch it back.

[689] Like, I'd make my own self -tapes of myself, like, a weirdo, like in my bedroom being like, what do I look like when I cry?

[690] And I started, I'd just spend a lot of time alone.

[691] I was a super big loner.

[692] I didn't really have any friends.

[693] Did you have boyfriends?

[694] I had a boyfriend.

[695] When did I get a boyfriend?

[696] I think I got my first serious boyfriend friend at maybe 17.

[697] Okay.

[698] Was he a fellow actor?

[699] He was, yes.

[700] Yeah.

[701] Did you ever live at the Oakwood?

[702] Yes, I did.

[703] That's where we moved originally for pilot season was Oakwood.

[704] Did you live at Oakwood?

[705] No, but we love Oakwood and we love the Hollywood complex that documentary.

[706] Oh, I know.

[707] Oh, God, that stressed me out.

[708] I couldn't sit through.

[709] It was too real for me. That documentary was too real.

[710] Well, Josh Hutcherson, the same movie was Dan Winston, the creatures, he was in it, and I used to go pick him up and take him to, like, big boys and stuff.

[711] He was in town from Kentucky doing this movie, and I was kind of his de facto big brother, and we'd go to Big Boys and go to the car show and stuff.

[712] This is iconic.

[713] This is of a time, by the way.

[714] Like, you're saying getting picked up and go to Big Boys, like, whoa, the sense memory is so intense for me right now.

[715] I'm sure.

[716] I would go pick him up there, and he fucking loved that place.

[717] They had a buffet on Sunday.

[718] Like, he just loved it.

[719] And I was like, this is so fun for actors.

[720] But again, for working actors, if you're just there and you're not working, you're watching all these other kids go away to get jobs, it must be excruciating.

[721] Yes.

[722] Well, I had one thing working in my favor for at least about the first year that we were in L .A., which is that I didn't understand that there was anything past the audition.

[723] I thought the audition was the job.

[724] Oh.

[725] And so at around, you know, eight years old, I was like, wait, this is not going well.

[726] I thought that I was nailing this.

[727] There was more.

[728] They say, great job every time I leave.

[729] I did a great job every time.

[730] Yeah, I believed it.

[731] So a really fun part of your story, which I did not know until today, is that you were a pop star.

[732] Did you know this, Monica?

[733] No, I did not.

[734] How old were you when you wrote the song that ended up getting airplay?

[735] So I wrote the song, I think I was 11.

[736] 11?

[737] Can't be right.

[738] 12, I think, 13?

[739] I had you at 14.

[740] And that was just through not great math, but...

[741] I think my music started coming out at 14, but I wrote a song called Invisible Girl that was about not feeling seen after I auditioned for the reboot of Peter Pan for the role of Wendy.

[742] It's very deep.

[743] This is very deep.

[744] I hope you're ready for this.

[745] I felt so unseen.

[746] I was heartbroken.

[747] Found out that I didn't get it.

[748] Ran away from home for like two hours, which felt like an eternity to me. And then wrote that song, and it ended up getting a manager off of it and Kiss FM wanted to put it on the radio.

[749] And then because of that, Universal was like, oh, we got to hire this person who's like, wrote this song, I got on the radio.

[750] Well, you're a prodigy.

[751] You're like S .E. Hinton at that point.

[752] Apparently, I was a young child with a lot of feelings.

[753] I rode right on my guitar.

[754] And I ended up being signed to Universal and Tommy Mottola's label.

[755] I was going to say, what's so crazy is we just interviewed Daryl Hall and Tommy Mottola signed him.

[756] And I was like, Daryl is 74, I think.

[757] So I was like, wow, Tommy Mottola is like a beast.

[758] I don't really understand him.

[759] I just know he's related to everyone, Mariah Carey and Daryl Hall.

[760] And then when I read that Tommy Mottola also signed you, I was like, is this guy 160?

[761] Is he a vampire?

[762] How is he signing you and Daryl Hall?

[763] I don't know.

[764] That doesn't make sense.

[765] It was all.

[766] No, it doesn't make sense to me either.

[767] And I was there.

[768] It doesn't make sense.

[769] Okay.

[770] So she records an album and goes on tour, is on TRL.

[771] The album is finally out of P .E. And you have like a little life as a pop star.

[772] And I'm wondering, what were you feeling inside if you could even remember?

[773] Like, to me, it would just seem like I came out of a blackout and I'm standing on the stage.

[774] Like, well, how did this happen?

[775] I mean, it was really strange how it happened.

[776] I mean, the sequence of events is like a Disney Channel movie.

[777] It doesn't really make sense.

[778] I was on a sitcom, and I was in my dressing room playing my guitar, and we had a musical guest on the show, and this manager for the musical guest, like, heard me with my guitar and went up to my mom and was like, here's my card.

[779] If she ever wants to explore this music thing, just let us know.

[780] And that just like set off this whole chain of events, like I said, wrote this song.

[781] Someone knew someone, got it to Kiss FM.

[782] I had no representation, whatever.

[783] Universal signs me. They start flying me all over the place to write with the person who wrote Avril Levine's album and person who wrote Jeannie in a bottle and like all of these people.

[784] And I'm like 13 or like 14 or something like that.

[785] And my mom would drive me and drop me off and then like bring me lunch and at the studio.

[786] At the studio working with these adults.

[787] But it worked because I was so naive.

[788] They'd say, Bree, what's your day like?

[789] What's going on?

[790] What do you want to write about.

[791] And I'd be like, oh, here's my notebook.

[792] Here's all the things that I've been thinking about.

[793] Here's been writing.

[794] And we would write these songs.

[795] And by the end of the day, you have a song.

[796] You submitted it to the label.

[797] This whole process ended up creating an album.

[798] And it all just sort of had this energy that was just moving, moving, moving.

[799] And then it sputtered out because the thing that didn't work for me was once they started to feel like there might be success, there was a lot of people involved.

[800] A lot of people saying, this is what you should wear, this is how things should look.

[801] And I was young enough to put.

[802] back because I didn't have anything to lose.

[803] And I was like, this is embarrassing.

[804] I don't want it to look like that.

[805] Because you were going to be an actor, and this thing was kind of like a side opportunity, perhaps you weren't willing to play ball as much as you would have been if it were for an acting thing.

[806] You didn't have the desperation towards music maybe that could have exhibited itself in acting.

[807] I think what disturbed me was that it was my name.

[808] So it's like the album is Brie Larson, and I at least even at that age understood I was going to have to live with this.

[809] Wow, that's mature.

[810] I know.

[811] It's very strange that I understood this.

[812] It didn't really help.

[813] I still have an album called Finally Out of P .E. And, you know, I have a song on the Barbie and the Magic of Pegas's soundtrack.

[814] And, you know, so whatever.

[815] The corporations won this time.

[816] But, however, I at least fought back on some of it.

[817] And that was eventually why it didn't work out because I was just, I would just say no. But what I didn't like was that I was being told what to do.

[818] it was my name.

[819] Instead of when I'm an actor, you're creating a character.

[820] So it's this thing outside of you.

[821] So it doesn't have to be super true all the time to me personally.

[822] And it's more collaborative.

[823] It's okay to me if a director's like, I really think it's this color, the shirt, whatever, because it's this thing outside of me. But when someone's telling me, Brie, that I need to sound like this, I need to wear this.

[824] This is my brand.

[825] It's like, no, that's not going to work.

[826] That doesn't feel good.

[827] So it kind of, of just died.

[828] It kind of reminds me of like when they hired Roseanne to be Roseanne, it got really confusing quickly because they didn't ask her to write it.

[829] And they didn't, I don't even know that they gave her a created by credit originally.

[830] So she's just playing Roseanne, who she is Roseanne.

[831] And yet it's other people are in charge of how she's Roseanne.

[832] That just seems that would be uncomfortable.

[833] Yeah.

[834] If you're going to use your name, you kind of got to be exactly who you are, if ever there were a time.

[835] Yeah.

[836] And I think I was very very.

[837] very young, so I don't know if I totally knew what that was.

[838] I knew more of what it wasn't than what it was.

[839] And we just had a super big misunderstanding, I think.

[840] Sure.

[841] What's strange is that, like, it was so controversial and bizarre that I wanted to play guitar, that, like, on stage, I wanted to play guitar.

[842] It was like, no, why wouldn't you, like, dance?

[843] And it was like, oh, I don't dance.

[844] I play guitar.

[845] And now it's like, it's so commonplace.

[846] It's so great.

[847] I mean, it's just so normal.

[848] Yeah, Yeah, exactly.

[849] But it wasn't at the time.

[850] It was sort of a confusing novelty.

[851] When you were on this tour and you were on stage, what did that experience feel like?

[852] It did feel like a blackout.

[853] My first real show was opening for Jesse McCartney.

[854] It was 6 ,000 people.

[855] I had done like a show or something like in a mall.

[856] But the opening for Jesse McCartney, his beautiful soul tour, he just had a hit single, Beautiful Soul.

[857] Beautiful song.

[858] So good.

[859] Still holds up.

[860] And it was to like 6 ,000 screaming girls.

[861] That's a lot of people.

[862] It was amazing.

[863] It was amazing.

[864] And I didn't understand anything.

[865] But my manager, I remember I was walking out onto the stage.

[866] And my manager said, tell the audience that you'll go to the merch booth after you're set.

[867] And I was like, what is it?

[868] He's like, the merch booth.

[869] And I was like, the merch booth.

[870] I'll go to, tell him to go to the merch booth.

[871] And so I remember being like, okay, you know, whatever.

[872] Hey, Sacramento.

[873] This is my last song, but I'll be at the merch booth.

[874] And all of these, like I, it was like a movie.

[875] I go out to the merch booth and the lobby is packed.

[876] I was like a beetle for the day.

[877] It was all of these girls in this lobby screaming.

[878] And I remember seeing the executive from Universal who was there.

[879] And it was just like dollar signs were in her eyes.

[880] She was just like, oh my God.

[881] And I ended up getting in trouble because so many people had stayed out in the lobby.

[882] Oh, they missed.

[883] That they didn't go back.

[884] Yes, they weren't going back in.

[885] So, yeah, I wasn't doing my job.

[886] I had one job.

[887] It was to warm up the crowd for Jesse McCartney.

[888] Not take it.

[889] I did not do that.

[890] Tell them to follow you to the parking lot after you're set, okay?

[891] Come to my house.

[892] I had a tour bus.

[893] It was great.

[894] Oh, my gosh.

[895] Wow.

[896] It was incredible.

[897] Did you bring friends with you?

[898] Like, did anyone join you for this surreal?

[899] Your neighbor.

[900] It's a great question.

[901] My neighbor, who has a great question.

[902] had taken, like, a makeup course, and she did my makeup on the tour.

[903] How old was she?

[904] I think she was, like, 16, something like that.

[905] Oh, oh, boy.

[906] This is a Disney show.

[907] This can't have happened in real life.

[908] Yeah.

[909] I know, I know.

[910] It's hard to believe.

[911] I don't even hardly believe myself when I say it, but it's true.

[912] It's kind of the Miley Cyrus show.

[913] Oh, Hannah Montana.

[914] Like, you all of a sudden you were just...

[915] I never reached the ranks of Hannah Montana.

[916] and I never reached the level.

[917] Well, few do.

[918] God, I wonder what would have happened if you had continued on that path?

[919] Who would you be?

[920] I don't know.

[921] You'd be a famous singer who's trying to get into movies.

[922] You would use it to try to get yourself into ultimately movies, I imagine.

[923] Yeah, that's a reasonable assessment, yeah.

[924] But just from the outside, I think you are a very hopeful story for someone to follow for many, many reasons.

[925] But one thing I think you could speak on, which would, I think, be helpful to people is when I look at what you did between seven years old and basically probably short term 12 you must have thought you were about to enter the fast lane like 25 times like you did pilots and so you're in a pilot and you're like okay this is going to go and then for this reason or that it doesn't go someone gets sick okay okay now I'm not getting on the highway now I'm sitting now for another three months or four months or five and then another thing comes along, well, here we go.

[926] Now, like, all the stutter stops that happened to someone before your Captain Marvel.

[927] And you, of all people, you experience a ton of them, which I find to be really inspiring.

[928] And I just wondered, what was that roller coaster ride?

[929] Like, how did you keep yourself in it?

[930] How did you stay positive?

[931] How much did you succumb to the notion?

[932] Like, well, here we go.

[933] I'm on United States of Terra and I'm going to buy a jet in five years.

[934] Yeah, remember I said it was broke many times?

[935] That's part of that.

[936] Yeah.

[937] Well, I had the pleasure of experiencing those low points from a very young age through every stage of growth.

[938] As a kid, as a teenager, as an adult, as someone who moved out.

[939] I mean, so many times.

[940] And so it's not a simple answer as to how I dealt with it because it was so many different ways.

[941] When I was a little kid, I'd run away from home.

[942] But at a certain point, there was moments that were so hard, I let it shatter me. every time it did I let it happen and it always looked different and as I got older it probably looked sadder but in allowing myself that it's like I'd go to this really deep low place and in there I would just sort things and I'd go why do I want to experience this like why do I want to experience this much pain rejection why do I want to do something that feels so hard that It doesn't really have a clear pathway.

[943] And in that, I started formulating why I felt it was beyond me, why I felt like I had to do it.

[944] And there were things like representation, like not feeling seen when I was watching movies was a huge thing for me. Like your archetype wasn't being told in stories.

[945] Is that what you mean?

[946] Yeah, I just felt like I was way more emotional, way darker, way messier than what I was seeing.

[947] And I enjoyed what I was seeing, but I felt like.

[948] It wasn't until, strangely, when Netflix happened and they had the Criterion collection on Netflix, when you get the DVDs mailed.

[949] And I started just randomly watching, like, old Italian films and French films.

[950] Oh, my gosh, you'd see these women that were just, you know, crying or laughing, or the whole plot would be like, we can't figure her out.

[951] Why is she so weird?

[952] Why is she so wild?

[953] And I was like, this is it.

[954] Like, this is the thing.

[955] But I don't see this in America, and I want to.

[956] And so in the depths of all of that, I was like, I want to share these feelings that I have because I can't be the only one.

[957] And I think also, you know, you brought up the homeschooling thing because I was alone so much.

[958] It was a way for me to go, okay, these are messages in a bottle.

[959] And maybe it's a way for me to like put it out there in the world and see if anybody else is like, I get that.

[960] And I continue to do that.

[961] It's hard.

[962] I think one of the hardest things you can do is to allow yourself to break, to allow yourself to feel how painful something can be, to want something.

[963] First of all, to allow yourself to want something.

[964] Yeah.

[965] To want it so badly and to feel how bad you want it.

[966] I started getting heartburn when I was like 12 years old because I wanted it so bad.

[967] And I have to sit and wait for that phone to ring on our fax machine for my agent being like, oh, didn't get it again.

[968] I had a lot of practice and failure.

[969] And one of the harder lessons for me was in learning how to accept success and to enjoy it because I still am waiting for it to go away.

[970] It's like my biggest fear.

[971] If I'm in a panic attack, it's like I'm never going to work again.

[972] What do you think you're saving yourself from by not allowing yourself to indulge in the happiness of being successful or the experience of success?

[973] I mean, I think a huge part of it is like you get very comfortable in what you know.

[974] And I knew a no. I knew I audition.

[975] They say no. And I got very comfortable with my role in my life as being the underdog.

[976] And it felt really strange to acknowledge at a certain point I'm not the underdog anymore.

[977] And it's sort of ridiculous to act like I am.

[978] I'm a very lucky, very privileged person.

[979] It doesn't mean I didn't work and claw my way to get to where I am.

[980] But I have to recognize the position that I'm in because by not acknowledging it, I'm doing a disservice to everyone, not just me. I'm not acknowledging the platform that I have.

[981] I'm not acknowledging the access that I can give to people and myself and that I can express liberation because, I mean, once again, what we're talking about is can we allow ourselves to fully embrace what we want, that we love a person, that we love a thing, that we love what we do, because we can get very easily into wanting to connect over a complaint, wanting to connect over, this is hard.

[982] But can we connect in what we love?

[983] And can we really, relish in what we love, and can we love it even though we know that it might not be there forever?

[984] And to me, it's like, why get ahead of it?

[985] Can I just love it now?

[986] And the only reason why I wouldn't love it now is because I'm scared of what somebody else would think.

[987] And what if I just cut out the middleman and said, I'm not interested in that.

[988] I'm interested in my experience because that's all I get.

[989] Yeah, what's interesting is I had never even thought of it this way, but yet you've got to say goodbye to an identity.

[990] Like, as soon as Captain Marvel comes out and it makes a billion dollars, yeah, it would be fraudulent for you to act like the underdog.

[991] And so that's your own identity has to change dramatically, which is hard for people to do.

[992] Being flexible with your identity is scary.

[993] I have a strange process pretty much after every job, because I'll spend all this time playing another person.

[994] I'm back home, packing my suitcase.

[995] I have to decide what I want to keep and what I don't, and it's of the experience.

[996] And those, I'm realizing now are like rituals that I'm.

[997] I created for myself.

[998] And it's like what we're talking about.

[999] I set aside time to revise my opinion of myself or my outlook of myself.

[1000] But I have clear markers.

[1001] I was wearing other clothes.

[1002] I had my hair dyed a different color.

[1003] I was doing whatever, you know, the wigs off, whatever it is.

[1004] And now, okay, let's sort through it.

[1005] It might be harder for people who don't have such a clear experience of, okay, I've transitioned out of something into something else.

[1006] But for me, I have the luxury of those things.

[1007] And I really take myself up on it to sit with it and to go, gosh, thank you so much.

[1008] But like, I've outgrown this.

[1009] I've outgrown these tools.

[1010] I've outgrown, whatever it is.

[1011] Like we were talking about confrontation.

[1012] Like not confronting things worked for me for a really long time.

[1013] And I'm so grateful that I am where I am.

[1014] And I'm so glad I did it like that.

[1015] And now it's not working for me because I'm noticing it's not.

[1016] So time to move on from that and just keep growing.

[1017] I often worry that people that pursue this thing, they're waiting for that job to let their life start.

[1018] I think that's like the real trap that can happen for actors or anyone that's really pursuing something really fullheartedly and it's hard is kind of you're waiting like when I'm on a TV show, I'll blank, blank, blank, blank.

[1019] So life will start when I get hired.

[1020] And then you can miss your entire life.

[1021] I got defensive about a comment on my Instagram feed, which is like as a video of me and my daughter singing while I was driving the motorhome.

[1022] And someone wrote like, oh yeah, if I were rich and blah, blah, blah, I'd be singing.

[1023] and happy too.

[1024] And I wrote back, if you're waiting to be happy and sing till you get rich, please don't.

[1025] Like, sing and be happy now and then also get rich.

[1026] But don't, that can't be the reason you're not singing and happy, but you can't let it be.

[1027] And also, like, I'm a fairly wealthy person.

[1028] I'm not happy every day.

[1029] I'm not happy every single every day.

[1030] That's not the thing either.

[1031] It definitely helps.

[1032] Like, I can pay for therapy.

[1033] Yeah.

[1034] Cold plunge.

[1035] You can have a cold plunge in your life.

[1036] I have a cold.

[1037] Yep, I do have a cold plunge.

[1038] There's definitely things that I can do.

[1039] I have more of an advantage to feel better, but it doesn't mean that I do.

[1040] Now, all of my issues and insecurities and fears, they didn't evaporate.

[1041] They didn't fix any of that.

[1042] All that stuff's still there, even with money.

[1043] And it's also, I mean, this is going to sound pretty wild too, but I only have as much money as I believe.

[1044] So I can still get in the trap of swiping my card and truly thinking, is this going to work?

[1045] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1046] I swear I'm dead sober all the time.

[1047] But it trips me out sometimes to think, oh my gosh, my entire experience is just what's happening in me. That's it.

[1048] Yeah.

[1049] That's the whole thing.

[1050] My anger at someone, my love for myself, all of it.

[1051] It's just me with me. I also think if you had a long period of economic insecurity as I did and as you did, I noticed my wife doesn't have it much, but she went to college and she dropped out to be on Broadway and she just worked steadily her whole life.

[1052] So we have much different fears about economic insecurity.

[1053] And I thought there would be a number that would make me not be fearful.

[1054] And then as I got this number, I realized, oh, I don't feel any safer.

[1055] I think the number was too small.

[1056] I need another number.

[1057] And then at a certain point, I had to just objectively go, oh, it's not related at all to that number.

[1058] I have a fear, and it's irrational, and it's not going to be solved by this real number.

[1059] I've got to just confront the fear.

[1060] It occurred to me, I could end up with a billion dollars and be scared I'm going to be broke and die penniless.

[1061] And so there's no rationality to that.

[1062] And I got to recognize, oh, the work I got to do has nothing to do with the external.

[1063] Yeah, exactly.

[1064] It's all about our relationship to everything, really.

[1065] And it's up to us.

[1066] Nobody else gets to do that work for us except us.

[1067] It's our pleasure.

[1068] Yeah.

[1069] What a pleasure it is.

[1070] Are you going somewhere?

[1071] This thing is going to die and I don't want it to.

[1072] Oh, okay.

[1073] We're having a lot of great technical things.

[1074] Unfortunately, this place is like, fine.

[1075] 500 stairs.

[1076] I just had an idea for a horror movie.

[1077] Like, what if we were watching her and she fell down the stairs?

[1078] And we were the only people that were seeing this.

[1079] And we don't know where she's at in England.

[1080] We don't know what her pseudonym is.

[1081] Like, we couldn't help at all.

[1082] We'd have to call the London police and go, do you know Captain Marvel?

[1083] She is on the staircase somewhere in your city.

[1084] We just have this blurry Zoom photo of the ceiling.

[1085] Does this ceiling and Bannister look familiar to you, officer?

[1086] You get a good workout at that apartment.

[1087] Yeah, you really get to work on the glutes and the quops.

[1088] I know, and the gym is on the top floor, so it's a whole.

[1089] Yeah, you get some nice cardio in.

[1090] Okay.

[1091] It's kind of like a scavenger hunt part of it.

[1092] Yeah, it's been really great for me. Look at how I'm rolling with all of these curve balls that life throws my way.

[1093] You are, you love curbies.

[1094] Oh, God.

[1095] I love a little.

[1096] curvy to my day.

[1097] I'm professional.

[1098] Now we're here.

[1099] Oh, wow.

[1100] This is great.

[1101] So now you're on the floor and now you're backlit.

[1102] This is great.

[1103] You've got to see me in every type of lighting.

[1104] Isn't this incredible?

[1105] Your skin looks great still.

[1106] And this lighting too?

[1107] Yes.

[1108] And even on the stairwells, this is amazing.

[1109] Straight up your nostrils it was working.

[1110] Thank you so much.

[1111] Okay.

[1112] I need to talk to you for one second about room, which I'm sure you've talked so much about in your life already.

[1113] But my goodness, that fucking movie was so incredible.

[1114] You were so incredible in that movie, as was the child.

[1115] And there's these moments you recognize in movies that are hard to pull off or are going to be a challenge.

[1116] And for me, when you guys are in the back of the pickup truck, it's so low -fi, man. There's barely going on.

[1117] There's not 80 shots.

[1118] but there's something that is working in that the suspense of that like trumped the most complicated set piece I've ever seen in a movie like my anxiety level while you guys were in the back of the truck was just peak that I've ever had in a movie and I thought wow look how they did this they did this with almost nothing all they have is the pure belief of the actors that they're going through this that's really all we got we don't have many tools to help we don't have a cool camera car that we can push in on you as you're looking out.

[1119] We don't have any of that.

[1120] So to me, like, the accomplishment of it is that much greater, that all that happened and the suspense and the stakes and all that were so high was so little.

[1121] Yeah, there wasn't anything that could hide what we were doing.

[1122] It was, like, really dependent upon Jacob and I giving real strong performances.

[1123] That's all there is.

[1124] I mean, it's like a play in that way.

[1125] And it's like, if you guys aren't brilliant, this movie's average.

[1126] Yeah.

[1127] Yeah, it's such a testament to what two humans can do.

[1128] I don't know.

[1129] I found a very, very inspiring that movie in so many ways.

[1130] I'm glad.

[1131] I'm very glad.

[1132] It's also nice because it was like at a time when I was so free.

[1133] I really jumped into it.

[1134] I really went for it.

[1135] I scared myself with that film.

[1136] You know, I went very dark.

[1137] I would hate to compare my acting to yours because yours is far superior.

[1138] But I will say, I have this thought that like I couldn't do what I did.

[1139] an idiocracy today.

[1140] Couldn't possibly do it.

[1141] I could only do that on my second movie where I was so unafraid of everything and so anxious to try everything.

[1142] And then you slowly get into this preservation model where it's like, well, I got to also keep this thing going.

[1143] I know what works.

[1144] Like, why take a humongous swing at this point for me?

[1145] I just kind of want to coast off into the sunset.

[1146] So I realize I've gotten scared over the last 20 years, which is interesting.

[1147] Yeah, well, there's more to lose.

[1148] Yes, there you go.

[1149] That's exactly it.

[1150] There's a lot more to lose.

[1151] And I recognize it.

[1152] I think back.

[1153] It was like, there was so much for me writing on Room, like my survival.

[1154] Yeah.

[1155] It was my shot.

[1156] And so I just put everything into it.

[1157] And I still feel that way.

[1158] I still feel like there's the sense of like I'm acting for my life every time I'm on set.

[1159] I love that feeling, though.

[1160] I love the feeling where I'm just slightly scared, not so scared that it's getting in the way.

[1161] of my, like, flow state, my work, but just scared enough that I'm pushing myself just a little bit further than I thought that I could go.

[1162] Well, I got to imagine, like, based on your performance in that, and then based on what you've done physically, I have to imagine you find a lot of comfort in control.

[1163] Oh, I'm sure I do.

[1164] I've never thought about it like that, but I'm sure I do.

[1165] I would bet highly on that.

[1166] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[1167] First of all, I was curious, did you have any, like, internal racket about, okay, I've kind of now been embraced as this indie darling prodigy, whatever you want to call it.

[1168] Did it cross your mind of like, oh, all these people who fall in love with me in this little tiny world, they're going to feel betrayed if I go do an enormous superhero movie.

[1169] Like, did you have a racket?

[1170] Oh, good for you.

[1171] No, no. How about getting jacked?

[1172] Did you think, like, oh, I'm going to get in super great shape to play this super.

[1173] hero.

[1174] Do you start worrying about what people are going to say about that?

[1175] Or no?

[1176] Well, I thought I had really gotten away with something by getting casting Captain Marvel.

[1177] I was like, Marvel doesn't even know.

[1178] I don't know how to do any sort of physical activity.

[1179] Like, they never asked me, have you done a jumping jack in your life?

[1180] And they didn't ask.

[1181] But I also got cast very early.

[1182] I got cast like three years or something like that before we filmed.

[1183] And so I had all this time to train.

[1184] And so I was throwing myself into training thinking they're going to have me do all the stunts.

[1185] I don't.

[1186] even know what I'm going to have to do, but I'm sure I'm going to have to do all this crazy stuff.

[1187] And I don't even know how to jog for more than 10 seconds.

[1188] So I need to get myself ready for that.

[1189] And so I just put all this effort into training and learning martial arts and all this stuff.

[1190] And I didn't realize until my first day when I was doing like a judo throw in a moving train that the producers were like, you know, you don't have to do this, right?

[1191] Like no one does this.

[1192] This is like you get a stunt up before.

[1193] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1194] And I was like, what?

[1195] No one said anything.

[1196] Like no one questioned when I had said six months before we started filming, I want to be in contact with the stunt coordinator because I need to start training.

[1197] No one was like, why?

[1198] They just were like, okay, here's the person.

[1199] And so everybody just went with it.

[1200] And then next thing I know, I'm like, oh, well, now I'm like highly skilled at this.

[1201] It's really fun.

[1202] So I want to do all of it.

[1203] Yeah, you want to do it.

[1204] Yeah, I want to do as much as I can.

[1205] There's certain things I can't do.

[1206] I didn't study gymnastics or anything.

[1207] But I want to do as much as I can.

[1208] It's so fun.

[1209] So yeah, in that sense, I did feel this pressure that I was like, I'm playing.

[1210] this, like, very physical, super -powered person, I should know how to be strong, at least to, like, the most of my human abilities.

[1211] Yeah.

[1212] As someone who I can't imagine ever had the personal goal of getting super strong, or did, I don't know, maybe you did.

[1213] No, I did not.

[1214] I did not.

[1215] No. Because, again, I feel like I've had this experience, which is they hired me to play a model in a movie.

[1216] I'm like, I'm not good -lucky enough to be a model, so at least my body better look like a model's body.

[1217] like that was the minimum I could bring to it and I found myself jogging at night on the west side highway like on mile four and I literally was like who's this guy I was into punk rock and I smoked cigarettes and I was an alcoholic and I'm like almost watching myself out of my body jogging down the west side highway on this crazy routine I got so much pride from it I was like oh I didn't think I was really capable of this I didn't think I had it in me to do this and it just came with all this esteem.

[1218] I liked it.

[1219] If you had like that feeling.

[1220] Oh, yeah.

[1221] Well, I mean, this goes back to what we were talking about, like having an identity of yourself.

[1222] I was like, I have asthma.

[1223] I can get in shape.

[1224] Like, I'm an introvert.

[1225] I don't do these things.

[1226] And by the end of it, I was like, like, I was so intense.

[1227] I had so much aggression.

[1228] It was the first time that I was like, what is this feeling?

[1229] I was like, this is rage.

[1230] I feel rage.

[1231] Like, I remember getting like at the height of being training so many hours a day.

[1232] I got like a parking ticket and I just like lost it.

[1233] Snap.

[1234] Snap.

[1235] Like my car.

[1236] Like, like, full like Hulk like lost it.

[1237] And then just like the sheer panic of like, what have I become?

[1238] A meathead.

[1239] Yes.

[1240] And realizing like that you're changing your body at like a cellular level.

[1241] Like something is happening.

[1242] Yeah.

[1243] I am not the same.

[1244] I'm a very different person when I'm training like that.

[1245] So it's good to know.

[1246] I know that about myself.

[1247] Yeah, it was a big leap, but it was super fun.

[1248] It was hard.

[1249] Oh, Elijah, I'm right here.

[1250] My boyfriend had AirPods in and didn't realize that I was in here.

[1251] Oh, was he joining us?

[1252] Like, did they both join the same?

[1253] Yes, he's on now.

[1254] Oh, hi, Elijah.

[1255] He's on a phone call with someone named Tom.

[1256] I don't know who that is.

[1257] I'd love to interview Tom if he's up for it.

[1258] Yeah, Tom sounds really interesting.

[1259] The way he said Tom.

[1260] I was like, wow, sounds like a cool guy.

[1261] The way he said Tom.

[1262] But sorry, what were we talking about?

[1263] Getting jacked?

[1264] Yeah, I know it sounds so vain and stupid, but that's not the thing I'm honing in on.

[1265] I'm honing in on this, like, breaking the story you tell about yourself and how it can be so profound and that you start going, oh, maybe there's other stories I've been telling myself that are also limiting.

[1266] I don't know.

[1267] I find the whole thing, physical fitness to be, like, much greater than just physical fitness.

[1268] I completely agree with you.

[1269] It totally changed my perception of myself of what I was able to do, not even just in the gym, outside of the gym too.

[1270] Right.

[1271] It helped me use my voice.

[1272] Like I felt like I just became all around assertive, stronger, clearer.

[1273] I don't know what it is about that.

[1274] I think it's in doing something really hard where you meet yourself.

[1275] You know, when you do something that just gets you just into, like, I don't even know how to describe it, but you know it if you've experienced it.

[1276] And I think in this case, it's like lifting weights to the point where your brain is just going crazy, that then at the other side of it, you're like, I did it.

[1277] I faced it.

[1278] Yeah, well, Monica's two -time state champion cheerleader in high school.

[1279] And I honestly think that informed the rest of her life where she's like, yeah, I can do that.

[1280] Or it's going to be hard.

[1281] But the other thing is you learn in this process is like, oh, right, incremental steps is what makes change.

[1282] Like, if nothing else that teaches you this slow glacier pace of consistent behavior, will result in something.

[1283] I don't know if I, like, plied myself that long over anything other than working out to find out it works if you just go incrementally towards a goal.

[1284] Please tell me about your state championships.

[1285] Well, I'll show you my routine.

[1286] I'll send it.

[1287] It's on YouTube.

[1288] Thank you.

[1289] It teaches you that weirdly you can do anything.

[1290] You can do anything if you went into it with, like, oh, my body physically can't do this.

[1291] Like, take like a backflip, for example.

[1292] When I started, I couldn't do it.

[1293] I couldn't even come close, and then you do.

[1294] And you're like, oh, my God, I did a thing that I once couldn't do.

[1295] It applies across the board.

[1296] You can do anything.

[1297] And I, this is so silly, but I also used to work at SoulCycle.

[1298] And in those rides, one of the instructors was like, during the last push, it was like, you can do anything for 30 seconds.

[1299] I think about it all the time.

[1300] I don't know.

[1301] It just takes can't out of your vocabulary in a way that's special if you get the opportunity.

[1302] That's cool.

[1303] I think you're right.

[1304] I think it does change your perception of what's possible.

[1305] Yeah.

[1306] Okay.

[1307] Learning lots with Bree Larson and Jesse Ennis.

[1308] Am I saying her last name right?

[1309] Ennis?

[1310] Yeah, you are.

[1311] You said it beautifully and confidently.

[1312] Oh, thank you so much.

[1313] I didn't push too hard, right?

[1314] I threw it away just enough, but eventized it as well.

[1315] Yeah, exactly.

[1316] There was an emphasis, but it was also casual.

[1317] It was beautiful.

[1318] I loved the read.

[1319] Oh, my God.

[1320] Great.

[1321] So we don't even need to go again.

[1322] Okay.

[1323] Okay.

[1324] Learning lots with Brie Larson and Jesse Ennis.

[1325] What made you want to start this?

[1326] You guys are so natural.

[1327] You clearly have some very good rhythm together.

[1328] And it seems like it just happens as it does for Monica and I. Like there's just something about the ingredients that it foams every time.

[1329] How do you know, Jesse?

[1330] And how did you guys decide to do this?

[1331] Jesse and I met at the Williamstown Theater Festival about 10 years ago, over 10 years ago, and we were in the same play, and we showed up to rehearsals three days in a row, and we were both wearing the same thing.

[1332] We were wearing each other's outfits.

[1333] And they were very specific, bizarre, strange.

[1334] We both had a very strange sense of style, and yet they were exactly the same.

[1335] And I don't know.

[1336] It's like I blacked out after that.

[1337] It was like, oh, she's wearing converse, a lace skirt, and a flannel tied her.

[1338] around her waist.

[1339] And then it's like smash cut to the end of the camp, the theater festival, and we're sobbing and we're best friends.

[1340] And I don't remember getting to know her.

[1341] Did you invite her over to do crafts?

[1342] I did invite her over to do crafts.

[1343] That's correct.

[1344] That's part of it.

[1345] We made something that we called Summer Valentine's.

[1346] We made Valentine's in the summer for our castmates.

[1347] She's like my sister.

[1348] We've just done everything together, been through every strange phase of our life together.

[1349] And it just feels very comfortable.

[1350] Like it's a new, aspect of my life to be putting me Brie forward.

[1351] I was always very protective of myself, I think, because before I started training, I felt like, oh, God, if people knew who I was, like no one would like me. And so I'll just be an actor and I'll just hide behind these characters.

[1352] And in the last, I don't know, two years, it's just started to feel really oppressive and just ridiculous.

[1353] And like, a person should just be comfortable being themselves.

[1354] I'm not doing anything revolutionary here.

[1355] And with that, I have friends that ask me for advice or asked to be connected or want to learn more things.

[1356] I'm a forever learner.

[1357] And I get the privilege of conversation.

[1358] You both get the same thing.

[1359] You know, the podcast is an incredible opportunity to have conversation and share conversation.

[1360] And I realize that like a huge part of who I am, my outlook, the life that I lead that I so love is because of the people in it and the conversations that I get the privilege of having.

[1361] Even just in the activism space, I get invited into like really smart Zooms about all kinds of interesting things.

[1362] And so I started thinking I should make that information and these conversations available and free and allow people to listen if they want.

[1363] And so each episode is topic driven.

[1364] We had Amy Poehler come on and talk about confidence.

[1365] We had Bill Hader talk about anxiety.

[1366] And we've also had Jane Fonda and Hopp Hopkins come on and they talked about the climate crisis.

[1367] So sometimes they're more issue -based.

[1368] Sometimes they're about someone's personal development or growth, but it allows us to really drill down onto a certain subject and talk about the word, what it means, how it sits with us, how we live with it, and yeah, share information.

[1369] Continue to learn and grow.

[1370] Now, you had a YouTube channel, or you still have a YouTube channel, I imagine, and you were vlogging, and then you've now stopped.

[1371] And I did know this about you that you were what they all say in interviews, like she's a very private person.

[1372] And there's like a couple motivations for that.

[1373] One is like Edward Norton, who we interviewed, like, he wants the ability to play everyone.

[1374] So he doesn't.

[1375] I want you to know who he is.

[1376] Totally get that.

[1377] But it sounds like a more honest answer for you was I don't think I'm interesting enough to be a movie star.

[1378] Yes.

[1379] Yeah.

[1380] I don't have anything interesting to say.

[1381] Like, why would I add myself to the conversation?

[1382] And there was mixed in with it, the illusion that it was like, I want to be able to play all these different characters.

[1383] And if you knew me, you wouldn't believe it.

[1384] Yeah.

[1385] That felt very flimsy.

[1386] And I had to get into the truth, which is, it's scary to just be yourself.

[1387] Yeah.

[1388] It feels like the whole world is at risk.

[1389] if you are just yourself, with your beliefs and your desires and all of those things.

[1390] And so the YouTube channel was a way of challenging it.

[1391] And I was terrified.

[1392] And it's so funny looking back on it.

[1393] I'm like, what the heck?

[1394] Like I was in a tizzy because I was like, going to put out an air fry video where I like, tested out different frozen foods in an air fryer.

[1395] It's such a joke.

[1396] But it truly put me in a tailspin because it was just nothing to hide behind.

[1397] There's no script.

[1398] There's no character.

[1399] there's no one doing my hair and makeup.

[1400] There's nothing.

[1401] There's no one to blame.

[1402] It's just me with myself and my camera in my garage, just trying myself on.

[1403] And it was a really great experience for me. What happened to that 16 year old that took the one class?

[1404] You still around?

[1405] We dust her off.

[1406] I mean, she still exists in the world.

[1407] She's not doing my makeup currently.

[1408] Yeah, she's still with us, but she's not here in London, for example.

[1409] And so that was part of the YouTube channel, too, was just this leap of like, is it going to be okay when you find out that I barely brush my hair.

[1410] And breaking news, no one cared.

[1411] But the podcast is so great because you get to focus on the conversation.

[1412] You get to focus on connecting with people.

[1413] And it's kind of taking away any of the other sensors.

[1414] You don't know what anybody looks like.

[1415] You don't know what clothes they're wearing, what their hair looked like that day.

[1416] It doesn't matter.

[1417] Yeah.

[1418] And have you gotten to do any in person?

[1419] No. I'm excited for you to do them in person.

[1420] I don't know.

[1421] For us, they get really, really, like, you really forget you're making something.

[1422] It's hard to forget you're making something when you're on Zoom.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] And I'm like, oh, my computer has 10 % battery.

[1425] My iPad.

[1426] Yeah.

[1427] What are you most excited about in the future?

[1428] Oh, that's a great question.

[1429] Great way of phrasing it.

[1430] What am I most excited about?

[1431] I am really excited about the podcast.

[1432] I'm excited about really allowing myself to craft time to have.

[1433] thoughtful conversations.

[1434] It's like one of the best things in the world, I think, is just asking questions to another person who has a completely different life experience from you and just going like, how does this all shake out?

[1435] People are so strange and interesting.

[1436] I love it.

[1437] So I'm very excited about the podcast, learning lots.

[1438] And then I'm excited to continue living.

[1439] I'm really enjoying my time right now.

[1440] Oh, that's wonderful.

[1441] Yeah, it's really nice.

[1442] I'm in love and And I feel like I've hit a good place with myself, and I really am grateful for my job, and I'm just working at just not sabotaging it with stress and fears of the future.

[1443] Yeah, yeah.

[1444] That's my work.

[1445] Sanjay Gupta, when we had him on, he was talking about longevity, and he said one of the best things you can do is go on a walk and have a conversation with someone.

[1446] Like, it really propels your health.

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] Yeah, talking about something deep with a close friend, doing a physical activity is like the apex of what a human can do.

[1449] So, yeah, if we can figure out how to do these on treadmills or something, do you think you can come up with a filter?

[1450] You just let me know when that's happening.

[1451] I will be here for that.

[1452] Let's speedwalk on a treadmill and talk.

[1453] Let's get into it.

[1454] That could be a show.

[1455] I wrote on one of your Instagram posts, Let's Lift.

[1456] And I can't imagine you saw it, but I'm wondering if you would have any interest in lifting.

[1457] 100 % I'd lift with you.

[1458] Oh, my God.

[1459] It would be a true honor and a privilege to lift with you.

[1460] Okay, and I noticed you interviewed Rob McElhany, and he's a good friend of mine, and he's obsessed as well, as same with Camille.

[1461] How do you know Rob?

[1462] How did that come about?

[1463] Through Jesse, because Jesse's on Mythic Quest.

[1464] Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, duh.

[1465] Isn't he wonderful?

[1466] Yeah, and Jesse had such a great experience with him, and so I love that.

[1467] That's my favorite part.

[1468] Well, maybe we should lift at his house because he's got basically Iron Paradise.

[1469] He's got like rock level gym in his basement.

[1470] Have you seen my gym?

[1471] No, no. Is it crazy?

[1472] It's quite good.

[1473] I'll have to send you some pictures.

[1474] It's also rock level, I think.

[1475] Could you name it like Iron Lotus or something?

[1476] Oh, beautiful.

[1477] Of course, yes.

[1478] That's exactly right.

[1479] Okay.

[1480] Wonderful, wonderful.

[1481] Wait, I do want to just real quick before we wrap up because I think it's important.

[1482] And so, Jessie, do you feel like since you grew up and you never really felt like you fit in or you said you didn't have very many friends that, like, she was feeling that for you in a way that you hadn't had before?

[1483] Absolutely.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] And she's family at this point.

[1486] It's kind of beyond, it doesn't even, like, best friend doesn't even really, it feels quite flimsy, actually.

[1487] We have such a robust friendship that has lasted through so much.

[1488] I think this is a question we live with, which is like.

[1489] Like, if you knew the worst parts of me, would you still love me?

[1490] And I know I have at least one person that's not my mom in my corner.

[1491] And to have that, oh, man, then that's kind of like what we were talking about earlier.

[1492] Then, like, anything's possible.

[1493] It's the greatest and sweetest thing.

[1494] And it's a big love in my life.

[1495] Well, can we recommend maybe referring to yourself as soulmates as we do?

[1496] Oh, that's very sweet.

[1497] Because it feels like it's a little bit a notch above friendship.

[1498] Yeah, it's a little cosmic.

[1499] Yeah, there's a little bit cosmic, yeah.

[1500] Okay, I'll accept that.

[1501] I'm going to really sit with that, but I think soulmates is good.

[1502] Okay, so Iron Lotus, Soulmates.

[1503] Is there anything else we can rebrand for you or reframe in your head before we depart?

[1504] I think, I mean, two is great.

[1505] If we got a third, I mean, we don't have a title for the treadmill podcast, but I'm here for that.

[1506] Running with ideas.

[1507] Oh, that's pretty good.

[1508] I mean, off the cuff, it's okay.

[1509] That's nice.

[1510] Wow.

[1511] Working out our thoughts.

[1512] That's actually, wow.

[1513] No, I think running with ideas was very strong.

[1514] better yeah yeah thank you thank you thanks for your honesty on the notes the feedback absolutely i'm always here for that yep let me let's just try for a third really quick um lifting each other's two saccharins so that's off the table but that popped into my head but that's too much okay what about something with training training train of thought train of thought is good train of thoughts yeah train of thoughts yeah and do we spell it like train or train who knows tbd is this spelled are they both the same?

[1515] Different?

[1516] A locomotive and a...

[1517] No, they're both trained.

[1518] Both are T -R -A -I -N.

[1519] I'm not a good speller, Bree.

[1520] Oh, one last question.

[1521] I just remember to ask you because I said Bree out loud.

[1522] First of all, I dated a Brie for nine years.

[1523] I want you to know that about me. I have a very...

[1524] I have an affinity for the name Bree.

[1525] Is it a problem that Allison Brie exists?

[1526] No, she only makes my life better, honestly.

[1527] In the way that, like, Dermott Mulroney and Dylan McDermott, it's a big problem.

[1528] Because I know Dermott Mulroney, and most of his life's been plagued with the fact that people are confused between he and Dill and McDermott.

[1529] I find it even confusing.

[1530] And so, yeah.

[1531] We only benefit from the confusion, by the way.

[1532] We've only reaped the benefits of it.

[1533] For example, back in the day when no one knew who I was, I got this email that was like some computer company was like, we'd love to give you a new tablet.

[1534] And I was like, me?

[1535] And imagine my surprise driving to Culver City to get me. my new tablet and they're like Allison you're here and then I had to sit there for an hour while they helped me set up my tablet and they're like so Allison this is where you can connect your Twitter so why don't you just connect you and I just went with it I was like oh I don't feel like putting in my Twitter right now and then I will have you know I walked away with my tablet and then I did reach out to her and I said hey I just got a tablet in your name I know you a tablet so you can try and get one with mine you probably won't get one but thanks for the tablet And then she got, apparently, a lot of congratulations on your Oscar tweets.

[1536] Oh, good.

[1537] So she was like, thank you for that.

[1538] So we're just here thriving with the confusion.

[1539] No one's amazing.

[1540] It sounds like a very symbiotic relationship.

[1541] And we had her on, and boy, we just fell in love with her.

[1542] She's so goddamn fun.

[1543] She is.

[1544] And we work with the same trainer, so we work out together sometimes.

[1545] Yes.

[1546] Oh, really?

[1547] She can be on train of thoughts.

[1548] Oh, for sure.

[1549] She's a beast.

[1550] She is, yeah.

[1551] Bree, it was so nice to meet you.

[1552] I am an enormous fan, truthfully, and good luck in England.

[1553] Thank you.

[1554] Thank you for watching the sun go down with me. I'm now in my haunted mansion.

[1555] Yeah, I feel like we were a real ride.

[1556] I know.

[1557] What is happening?

[1558] You've seen me in, this is an entire, your skin still looks good, even in the dark.

[1559] Look at this weird movie she's in now.

[1560] This is, I'm still, it's a scary movie.

[1561] I'm like in Blair Witch right now.

[1562] You are.

[1563] Oh, my gosh.

[1564] You're great at it, too.

[1565] And then I just want to remind everyone to, listen to learning lots with Brie Larson and Jesse Ennis.

[1566] Also, lots of stuff coming our way from you.

[1567] You also have an Apple Plus show that's coming out.

[1568] You have an Amazon thing coming up.

[1569] You're busy, busy, busy, and we thank you for it.

[1570] So everyone should keep their eyes peeled for all of the content you're giving us.

[1571] Get ready for this content.

[1572] All right, Bree.

[1573] Adore you.

[1574] Hope I see you in real life.

[1575] And good luck with the rest of your time in London.

[1576] Let's train when I get back.

[1577] Oh, fuck.

[1578] We could lift in London.

[1579] How long are you there?

[1580] Oh, let's do it.

[1581] Yeah.

[1582] I have a little gym here.

[1583] I'm here until at least the end of the year.

[1584] Oh, great.

[1585] Okay.

[1586] I'm literally going to come over and train with you.

[1587] Get my info from Rob and come train.

[1588] We've, like I said, we don't have a huge setup, but we have enough of a setup.

[1589] Oh.

[1590] This is going to be great.

[1591] Can we make an Instagram video?

[1592] For sure.

[1593] Let's do it.

[1594] Oh, my God.

[1595] I'm going to be a star after this.

[1596] All right.

[1597] All right.

[1598] Take care.

[1599] Thank you so much.

[1600] Bye.

[1601] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1602] Are we on?

[1603] Yeah, we're recording.

[1604] This is the recording of the show, Monica.

[1605] Okay, tell me about how that works.

[1606] So we talk, and then magic ants run in a circle on top of wax, and they are recording with their little feet.

[1607] With the grooves that match our voices, and they record on the people.

[1608] a piece of wax inside of there.

[1609] Oh, my God.

[1610] And then Rob has a team of ants that then breeds it.

[1611] Oh, my God.

[1612] Now, is this what the movie Ants and TZ is based on?

[1613] Never seen it.

[1614] Me either and yes.

[1615] Okay.

[1616] That's exactly what the movie's about.

[1617] Makes sense.

[1618] Yeah, because there's so many recordings to be done.

[1619] Even before the era of the podcast, which I will remind you there are 2 .2 million, which is more than that now because I learned that, what, three months ago?

[1620] Oh, yeah.

[1621] then there's 17 .2 million, if that's true.

[1622] It's so exciting.

[1623] Almost everyone has access to everything.

[1624] Like, I was even thinking Lincoln's getting pretty knowledgeable about, like, the mechanics of a TV show in movies.

[1625] And she notices shots now, you know, and she'll tell me, like, how she would have shot that.

[1626] Like, oh, I would want this song, and then I would put slow motion here.

[1627] Like, she's already – and it's not just to placate me. I look over at her, and she's thinking about that.

[1628] And I thought to myself, oh, she can just do that.

[1629] She has a fucking onions.

[1630] I just used onions to cook your thing.

[1631] Dax just smote his finger.

[1632] Yeah.

[1633] Yeah, it's onion.

[1634] You tried to do it really discreetly, but I caught it.

[1635] Good eye, good eye, good eye.

[1636] Because I just ran it by my nose.

[1637] It was brief.

[1638] Yeah, but there was a, like, movement in your nose that led me to believe.

[1639] It wasn't just a scratch.

[1640] My forest of nose hairs started moving and bristling.

[1641] Fully.

[1642] So anyways, I was thinking, she can do that right now.

[1643] has an iPod with a camera that can film in slow motion.

[1644] There's this really easy editing software.

[1645] She can grab any song from Apple Music.

[1646] Like, the whole thing.

[1647] It's very cool.

[1648] I was like, oh, I had those thoughts, but that wasn't a possibility.

[1649] Scottie and I had to chip in on a Canon XL1 so we'd have something that's mildly good looking.

[1650] And then the software and how long it took that out, you know, it was a beat down.

[1651] Yeah.

[1652] Speaking of, did you watch Jess's story?

[1653] Yeah, yeah, Yes.

[1654] I had to watch it like four times before my brain could really accept it was Jess.

[1655] So, okay, great.

[1656] I was going to ask you what your big walkaway was.

[1657] And it sounds like we have the same one.

[1658] Well, in case any of you missed it, Jess posted a video of an old home movie that he had made with his brother and sister.

[1659] And his stepfather is an editor.

[1660] So it was pretty well put together.

[1661] Oh, I wonder.

[1662] Okay, I was like, how did this happen?

[1663] Because it did have, like, editing.

[1664] Exactly.

[1665] Not only editing, but they were on the right side of the line when they were shooting the overs, which I was impressed with.

[1666] I was like, I'm surprised they got that right.

[1667] But then I was remembering his stepfather was, like, one of the best editors in television.

[1668] Do you think he directed this movie?

[1669] Yes.

[1670] I have to imagine he was involved with the shooting a little bit just to get the wides and everything to match, is my guess.

[1671] There was even a time I think we're just like snapped or something.

[1672] Yeah.

[1673] There's a magic trick.

[1674] He snaps and he disappears.

[1675] and then he reappears.

[1676] I just came up with alternative, but very close to that.

[1677] Just his stepbrother, who is the biological son of the editor.

[1678] Yes.

[1679] Maybe because that's his dad, he, too, might have been really into it.

[1680] And maybe even thought he was going to be editor for him in or something.

[1681] So maybe the stepbrother could have been really involved, too.

[1682] I don't know.

[1683] We have theories.

[1684] Armchair theories.

[1685] Fuck that.

[1686] None of that's important.

[1687] How was shot?

[1688] How was edited?

[1689] I've never, well, you talk first.

[1690] I don't want to poison the well.

[1691] Jess is the exact same person as he was as a little kid.

[1692] He did a thing in that video.

[1693] I don't know how old he is there.

[1694] I wish I knew.

[1695] He looks like he's 14.

[1696] That's a good guess.

[1697] Yeah.

[1698] But it's hard to know him because he's freakishly tall.

[1699] Maybe he's 12.

[1700] But I think 14.

[1701] And he's really tall in that video too.

[1702] He's so cute in that video.

[1703] His face is so cute.

[1704] Well, he did a thing where he like rubbed his head in frustration.

[1705] And he does that.

[1706] all the time.

[1707] Right.

[1708] That's not the takeaway I had.

[1709] Okay.

[1710] His voice is so different.

[1711] Oh, his voice is completely different.

[1712] Like, there's not even any of the fingerprint or anything vestigial in his current voice about that voice.

[1713] I think if you were to watch a video of me at that age, I think you'd know it was me really quick.

[1714] Yes, I had that thought too while I was watching and I was like, oh, this must be before puberty.

[1715] Maybe it was before 14.

[1716] Yeah.

[1717] Who knows?

[1718] But I think a huge departure.

[1719] I didn't, I thought they were two different people, but you did see these physical similarities, which is unique.

[1720] Yeah, no, I, again, that's why I said.

[1721] I had to watch it a few times because I was like, that's not him.

[1722] Is that him?

[1723] No. But then at one point, he did the head thing.

[1724] He looks like a polished TV child actor.

[1725] And he was acting well.

[1726] Exactly.

[1727] And he was so cute, and his voice was so high.

[1728] Yeah.

[1729] Then I'm like, oh, this kid is on a TV show.

[1730] That's what he's reading like.

[1731] Are we in love with Jess?

[1732] Oh, wow.

[1733] I think we might be because also recently, you guys will find out he does something in an upcoming episode of armchair.

[1734] And he left.

[1735] And me and you both said, that was kind of hot what Jess did.

[1736] Yeah, well, what's great is you use the adjective hot.

[1737] And I was grateful you did because as soon as you said, I was like, that's exactly what it was.

[1738] I was just sitting here like, oh, that was impressive.

[1739] But no, it was fucking hot.

[1740] Because it was so thrown away.

[1741] He shows off one of his talents.

[1742] And it's a big talent.

[1743] Big.

[1744] But he doesn't eat, like he threw it away.

[1745] No, and he keeps that talent very under wraps.

[1746] It's so confident to throw it away like that.

[1747] Confident.

[1748] Very.

[1749] Anyway, we love Jess.

[1750] Very hot.

[1751] Very hot.

[1752] How was your day?

[1753] I'm a weird day.

[1754] First, let's go back to me smelling my fingers.

[1755] Oh, okay, sure.

[1756] So they smell like onion because I just put some onion over baked beans and in the tuna noodle.

[1757] Because for your birthday, you requested tuna noodle and beans.

[1758] I did.

[1759] We're having one day after.

[1760] You were having some panic about my present.

[1761] And I said, do not do that.

[1762] Do not worry.

[1763] But you know what?

[1764] I would love one of your meals.

[1765] One of my white trash.

[1766] That's right.

[1767] Yeah.

[1768] What do we call it?

[1769] Oh, this doctor's most terrible meal or something?

[1770] No, this doctor's worst superfood diet.

[1771] Okay, we're a superfood diet.

[1772] Yeah.

[1773] These are off that menu.

[1774] Yeah.

[1775] But anyway, so yeah, I have onion smell all over my fingertips.

[1776] Okay, next order of business was my day.

[1777] I woke up, got out of bed, or run to come across my head.

[1778] And then I went and did voiceover for Top Gear Season 2, which was about 90 minutes of voiceover.

[1779] Went downstairs and was like, I got to work out this second, or I'm not going to get it done before I have to go get my artery scanned.

[1780] So did that.

[1781] Then hop on my motorcycle, go get the artery scanned, come out of there and just side note.

[1782] the reason I'm getting my artery scan, I don't have a health crisis.

[1783] I got my heart, which you heard me brag about, zero plaque.

[1784] My doctor said why don't you get your arteries in your neck scanned.

[1785] If you're zero plaque there, then you don't need to be a statin.

[1786] You don't need to worry about your cholesterol, which I thought was cool.

[1787] Yeah.

[1788] Leave there, and I realize it's 3 .30.

[1789] Well, I haven't eaten anything yet today.

[1790] And on the ride home on my motorcycle, I start feeling like, you know, like just distracted, a little, like, little nauseous.

[1791] I'm getting really sweaty and I am having a hard time concentrating.

[1792] I'm like, I got to get off this motorcycle and address this.

[1793] I'm not going to make it home.

[1794] It was that severe.

[1795] Yeah.

[1796] But then I made the biggest fucking blunder in my life and I decided to eat at Pink's.

[1797] Why is that a blunder?

[1798] Because I was in line for like 25 minutes.

[1799] It looked so small.

[1800] The line compared to pinks, normally you go to Pink's.

[1801] Pink's is a landmark in L .A. hot dog place.

[1802] there's always like four turnstiles of people.

[1803] Well, there was only like eight people.

[1804] I was like, oh, I'll be through there in five minutes.

[1805] It was at least 25 minutes.

[1806] Oh, no. And I kept in the line going like, do you need to bail out?

[1807] I saw like a juice store across the street.

[1808] I was like, I think I just need to go get like an orange juice.

[1809] Yeah.

[1810] It felt that crazy.

[1811] And I really started wondering if I was going to make it to order and blah, blah, blah.

[1812] So anyways, I ate, I overate big time.

[1813] Oh.

[1814] Then I came home.

[1815] I felt better, but then I felt exhausted.

[1816] Sure.

[1817] And now I feel a little weird, but I just had a triple -double.

[1818] double, or as you would say, a double triple.

[1819] Yes, macha.

[1820] Of macha.

[1821] Wow.

[1822] Okay.

[1823] And now we've got your big tuna noodle party.

[1824] It's very exciting.

[1825] So it's a great day.

[1826] And then tomorrow morning at the crack ass of dawn, I go to Detroit.

[1827] Yeah.

[1828] Fun.

[1829] Are you excited?

[1830] Beyond excited.

[1831] Pondoon boat for four days on the lake.

[1832] It'll be so fun.

[1833] Oh, with my son and my friends from my youth.

[1834] Yes.

[1835] Do you want to talk about your TV show?

[1836] I do.

[1837] Sure.

[1838] I'm shooting a...

[1839] Have we already said this?

[1840] We said it on the Race of 270.

[1841] Fact check before I did it, that I was going to do a miniature food show.

[1842] A show about miniature food.

[1843] Yes.

[1844] And...

[1845] Closed it by a miniature mouse.

[1846] It's called Tiny Kitchen Cook -Off, and it's a cooking competition show.

[1847] It's kind of like nailed it meets hot ones.

[1848] Uh -huh.

[1849] Because it's a cooking competition show, but...

[1850] You're interviewing.

[1851] I am.

[1852] While they're cooking, I am interviewing them about projects and stuff like that.

[1853] It's important to say the food is miniature, like a tiny chili cheese nachos.

[1854] And I mean tiny like two inches, two inches squared circumference.

[1855] Tiny cheese notches.

[1856] Tiny chili cheese.

[1857] Which means they had a little tiny bowl of meat that they had to cook on a tiny stove.

[1858] And the stove is powered by a tea light.

[1859] Oh, my gosh.

[1860] That's how small.

[1861] You're kidding me. I'm not.

[1862] This is crazy.

[1863] I know.

[1864] It's really amazing.

[1865] Hannah, who is the actual time.

[1866] Yes, master tiny kitchen chef.

[1867] She makes like...

[1868] What size is she?

[1869] Is she tiny too?

[1870] No, she's normal.

[1871] Yeah, normal woman.

[1872] She makes like really elaborate dishes, like stew and chicken teeka.

[1873] Oh, my God.

[1874] How would you make a piece of rice smaller?

[1875] You cut the...

[1876] actual piece of rice into 10 other pieces of rice?

[1877] Yeah.

[1878] I watched one video of spaghetti.

[1879] They cut the spaghetti into tiny spaghetti.

[1880] With scissors.

[1881] With tiny scissors.

[1882] It's incredible.

[1883] I would have used half of a pair of scissors.

[1884] You would have.

[1885] As you saw.

[1886] Yes.

[1887] You had a experience today with a can.

[1888] Yeah.

[1889] We didn't have a can opener as we've moved and God knows where it's at.

[1890] But I had to get into those beans.

[1891] You had to.

[1892] It wasn't an option.

[1893] So I took a part of a pair of scissors and then I just got into the top of it.

[1894] And then my sister made a video and it looks very scary the whole time.

[1895] It does.

[1896] It's terrifying.

[1897] It's kind of like a horror movie.

[1898] Could that be a horror movie?

[1899] Just someone opening something with super sharp knife?

[1900] Too real.

[1901] Too real.

[1902] Yeah, so I've been doing that and it's been really fun.

[1903] And I had a superstar on today, Mr. Ryan Hansen joined this.

[1904] Oh, my God.

[1905] Yeah, that's a picture.

[1906] Yeah, that's how we do it.

[1907] Oh, when you were talking about seeing your friends, it reminded me that when we had dinner with Chad.

[1908] We had a really interesting conversation.

[1909] Well, we love Chad, first of all.

[1910] Yeah.

[1911] But we had a really interesting conversation about friends from home.

[1912] When you move and leave and grow in a different way, like what happens to those friendships.

[1913] Mm -hmm.

[1914] And it's inevitable that they'll morph.

[1915] What will morph?

[1916] The friendships?

[1917] The friendships.

[1918] Yeah, they'll evolve.

[1919] Yeah.

[1920] Yeah, they'll evolve, exactly.

[1921] That's what's a little bit neat about Aaron and I, is it hasn't.

[1922] Like, we're better folks and we're not drinking, but the core of the thing is pretty unaltered.

[1923] Yeah.

[1924] Which is so unique.

[1925] I think there's two elements which are, one, just moving to California.

[1926] So if you move to California, people are going to be on high alert to see how you've changed.

[1927] More than, say, if someone moved to Ohio from Michigan, no one be like, oh, what are you all going, Cleveland now?

[1928] and you only, you know, what would you say?

[1929] Yeah, you're right.

[1930] It's the same state.

[1931] Sorry, everybody, in my home state and Ohio.

[1932] It's the same state.

[1933] And Indiana is almost the same state.

[1934] Oh, wow.

[1935] Illinois is very much the same state.

[1936] Anyways, there's like five states that are the same.

[1937] They should just span together and take over Tennessee.

[1938] Oh, wow.

[1939] Okay, anyways, that's not what we're talking about.

[1940] Yeah, well, so I think when you move to California, there's this notion that you're going to become, you know, more liberal, you're going to eat, silly, you're going to work out.

[1941] And guess what?

[1942] All those things are true.

[1943] Yeah.

[1944] And so then the question becomes like, I changed and no way means I don't love you the exact same.

[1945] It's just I do different shit now.

[1946] But that part's hard.

[1947] And then there's another, you know, element if you happen to become really successful while you've gone to this other location too.

[1948] I think that dynamic's a little tricky as well.

[1949] Yeah.

[1950] And then you didn't really experience it as much as he and I had.

[1951] No, we're the, I mean, I did have some rockiness when I moved out here.

[1952] It was hard to keep up communication, obviously, in the same way.

[1953] because my friends are on the East Coast.

[1954] And I was working crazy hours when I first moved out here, like 5 a .m. And then like till 10 and then I would go to a show, you know, it was crazy.

[1955] Yeah.

[1956] So, like, I wasn't good at keeping up with people over there.

[1957] And that caused some problems.

[1958] But that did plateau.

[1959] Like, I mean, that kind of like came to a head and then I think everyone went into some acceptance mode.

[1960] Mm -hmm.

[1961] Yeah, but definitely not since like, since we started the podcast or anything.

[1962] I don't think anything's changed at all with those friends, which I'm grateful for.

[1963] Yeah, I was just observing from what I have observed that your friends, what I've seen, are so supportive of you, and it's so nice.

[1964] It is nice.

[1965] And I was theorizing that it is helpful that they've really found great success as well.

[1966] So it's not like they're looking at you in their mind leaving to some other place.

[1967] They too are moving, you know, in that direction.

[1968] That is true.

[1969] I think that's part of it.

[1970] I think so.

[1971] If you have a friend at home that's just having more and more kids with different women and the alcoholism is just getting unmanageable, then, yeah, it's not, you're not so pumped for me. And I understand.

[1972] I understand.

[1973] And I deserve that.

[1974] Well, you don't deserve because they're making their decisions.

[1975] That's not the right way to say it.

[1976] I am in the privileged position where I can be understanding of it.

[1977] Yeah.

[1978] I can be sympathetic.

[1979] Sure.

[1980] I would be annoyed.

[1981] If I was suffering and some gibrony I hung with who seemed to be the same gibrony I was somehow buying a, you know, a bus.

[1982] Right.

[1983] Yeah.

[1984] Yeah.

[1985] I get it.

[1986] I guess to sum it up, it is funny.

[1987] And I think Jay -Z said it better than I did.

[1988] I don't remember exactly how he said it.

[1989] But, you know, if someone says you've changed, you know, that's a compliment.

[1990] That's a good thing.

[1991] That's what Justin Timberlake told us Jay -Z said.

[1992] Ah.

[1993] Yeah.

[1994] There's a like meme or picture or something of a two little flowers and they're the same height and they're smiling and whatever.

[1995] And then another picture of one that's taller.

[1996] So the little flower says you've changed.

[1997] And the big flower says, no, I just grew.

[1998] And that's part of this.

[1999] Now look, I'm just going to flip it real quick.

[2000] Just because that's our obligation.

[2001] of course that statement you've changed i do think the tall sunflower gets defensive immediately when or could i would yeah as opposed to maybe a little sunflower is not saying it in a negative way maybe this little sunflower is just observing oh you've gotten bigger you know but when i've heard that i assume that that's a bad judgment but maybe it's just an observation yeah that's all i almost kill myself oh my god i wasn't in danger at all with that pair of scissors but i almost knocked my Frontie out with this sure mic.

[2002] Oh, my gosh.

[2003] Well, it's a powerful mic.

[2004] Is Bree still the youngest person who has admitted to the American conservatory theater in San Francisco?

[2005] From what I can tell, yeah, she was six.

[2006] Oh, wow.

[2007] They say eight to 18.

[2008] Is the range.

[2009] Is like entering range.

[2010] But she was six.

[2011] And I couldn't find anyone.

[2012] When I did Google it, it said somebody else's name, but they were 20.

[2013] So something's off.

[2014] Something's weird.

[2015] Yeah.

[2016] Okay.

[2017] It's a miss. So we think she still is.

[2018] We don't want to take that from her until we have proof that it's not true.

[2019] Okay.

[2020] Is Stan Winston who created all the creatures for Zathura and also for Jurassic Park?

[2021] Yes.

[2022] Oh, good.

[2023] Yeah.

[2024] Good, good.

[2025] E .T. too, I think he created.

[2026] Wow.

[2027] What a career.

[2028] Is rag tag an offensive term?

[2029] Oh, he smelled his finger again.

[2030] I can't stop.

[2031] That happens sometimes when you have a smell.

[2032] Especially onion.

[2033] Yep.

[2034] Yeah.

[2035] Do you like the smell or no?

[2036] What I like is I'm suspicious it still smells that way, and then I smell it, and I get confirmation.

[2037] So I guess in that way I enjoy it.

[2038] Oh, you're wondering, like, I wonder if it still smells.

[2039] Oh, it does.

[2040] Of course it does.

[2041] And I should know it's not going to not smell that way until I wash it.

[2042] Yeah.

[2043] But yet, here I am, just wondering.

[2044] Okay.

[2045] Is rag tag offensive?

[2046] Tag and rag was a relatively common expression in the 16th and 17th centuries.

[2047] And it was often used pejoratively to refer to members of the lower classes of society.

[2048] By the 18th century, the phrase had been expanded to rag -tag and bobtail.

[2049] That expression could mean either the lower classes or the entire lot of something, as opposed to just the more desirable parts, the entire unit of an army, for example, not just its more capable soldiers.

[2050] Something described as rag -tag and bobtail then was usually common and unspectacular.

[2051] Rag -tag and bobtail was eventually shortened to rag -tag, the adjective we know today, which can describe an odd mixture that is often, hastily assembled, or second rate.

[2052] Okay.

[2053] Seems fine.

[2054] It's about lower class.

[2055] I'm lower class.

[2056] It's not cancelable.

[2057] It's not racial.

[2058] But it's mean.

[2059] Sure.

[2060] Mean and origin.

[2061] Yeah.

[2062] It's a bully tactic.

[2063] It is, you know, to make people feel less than.

[2064] Yeah.

[2065] Mm -hmm.

[2066] Yeah.

[2067] This is my issue with fancy clothes.

[2068] That's all it is.

[2069] It's an attempt to distinguish yourself as upper class with money.

[2070] Well, I disagree.

[2071] But, yeah.

[2072] It's because you love clothes.

[2073] Well, yeah.

[2074] But you can say that.

[2075] You can say that about cars and I'd have to agree with you.

[2076] You think you have your cars because you want to distinguish yourself from being...

[2077] No, no, no, no, no. Nor did I suggest you do.

[2078] But I'm saying the tradition and history of dressing nice was to appear wealthy.

[2079] Oh, sure.

[2080] But I think people want to express themselves and have style and wear cool stuff if they want to wear cool stuff.

[2081] I agree.

[2082] And same with your cars.

[2083] You don't have them because they're fancy.

[2084] You have them because you like them.

[2085] Me. But most people who buy a Rolls -Royce are making a statement about their wealth.

[2086] They're not the fastest.

[2087] Right.

[2088] Yeah.

[2089] Okay.

[2090] There's an S &L sketch about the game show of Dermott Moroni and Dylan McDermott.

[2091] And it's so funny.

[2092] I would encourage people to watch it.

[2093] Oh, I need to watch it.

[2094] Bill Haders, like the game show host.

[2095] And it's like Keenan and Jamie Fox, who are the contestants.

[2096] They like just don't know the difference.

[2097] And it's impossible to know the difference.

[2098] It's hilarious.

[2099] Alison Bree Brewery Larson.

[2100] Exactly.

[2101] Oh, my God.

[2102] Ding, ding, ding.

[2103] That's why we were talking about it.

[2104] Oh, yeah.

[2105] Yeah.

[2106] You're playing it fast and loose with the ding, ding, ding, things.

[2107] I said, I miss the ding, ding, ding.

[2108] I know.

[2109] That's all for Bree.

[2110] Oh, well, I'd certainly enjoy talking to her.

[2111] And we're going to see if that was just, what do they call?

[2112] I like this expression.

[2113] A cruel acceptance of a casual invitation.

[2114] So we're going to find out that if me, when I try to work out with her in England, if that will be a cruel acceptance of a casual invitation.

[2115] Oh.

[2116] Do you like that?

[2117] I love that expression.

[2118] Cruel acceptance of a casual.

[2119] casual invitation.

[2120] It's being like, no one was really serious.

[2121] You're the one cruelly accepting.

[2122] Absolutely.

[2123] That's my suspicion in this.

[2124] Well, first, well, let's see if we can make that happen.

[2125] That would be the first clue that it was a cruel acceptance.

[2126] And then, you know, if I get there and there's a vibe that's like, I cannot believe you took me up on this.

[2127] I was trying to be fucking polite, you asshole, you selfish asshole.

[2128] Oh boy, oh boy.

[2129] Boy.

[2130] You got to watch those casual invites.

[2131] You'll bite you in the ass.

[2132] Oh, it's happening.

[2133] We've been on the other side of it.

[2134] We sure have.

[2135] All right.

[2136] I love you.

[2137] Let's go eat tuna noodle and bean.

[2138] Yay.

[2139] Yay.

[2140] Yay.

[2141] Follow Armchair Expert on the Wondry app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[2142] You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2143] Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at Wondry .com slash survey.