254 - Little Bandit & Pirate George

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hello.

[2] Hello and welcome to my favorite murder.

[3] That's Georgia Hard Start.

[4] That's Karen Kilgareff.

[5] The end.

[6] And wow, what a week it's been.

[7] Wow, these past 14 days are so just perfectly 2020.

[8] I mean, coming to a close of this Godforsaken year.

[9] hoping 2021.

[10] I don't know.

[11] Yeah.

[12] How's it going?

[13] Good, good.

[14] I mean, as good as it can be going, you know, all things considered, I think a lot of people wrote in on Twitter last week about how sad they were that the end of the minisode, there was no Elvis male.

[15] Right.

[16] So Elvis, Elvis, my cat of 16 years passed away last week.

[17] I do think we should continue to put the meow, repurpose old meows at the end, don't you?

[18] Totally.

[19] We don't need to leave those off.

[20] It's part of it.

[21] He did the work.

[22] I mean, it's been record.

[23] It's why we're recording all of this so that it can all be reused in the future in some way.

[24] Let's get him those residual checks.

[25] For real.

[26] You take it all the way to the bank.

[27] Yeah.

[28] So I just want to thank everyone who reached out and who thought of him.

[29] And he's just been such a huge part of my life and so many reasons why I've been brave and happy and like laughed for so many for so long.

[30] And so the fact that he brought other people happiness to and made them laugh.

[31] and, you know, means so much to me. And I think he's, it's just so weird to have him gone, you know, after so long.

[32] And I'm so lucky.

[33] I had him for as long as I did, but it's just so weird just that he's just not around anymore.

[34] But, you know, everyone who reached out made me feel so incredible.

[35] And we did this amazing thing that you and Denton had suggested of putting, you know, cookies for Elvis on the website so you could buy a $5, you know, non -existent cookie to raise money for the ASPCA.

[36] And we raised $30 ,000, which is so much money.

[37] I just can't believe.

[38] And it's just such a beautiful tribute to him.

[39] And I just appreciate everyone's, like, thoughtfulness and what an incredible community this is that comes together.

[40] And, you know, I feel lucky to be a part of it.

[41] Yeah.

[42] I do want to take full credit, but it was completely Denton's idea to put that.

[43] Because Denton, well, Denton texted me and said, so many people are writing in and on the fan cult and on, you.

[44] social media saying where should we donate or get something together.

[45] It's like the funny thing is we had to really start putting that together quickly because the second people start talking about it, it's like they're irritated you haven't already set something up.

[46] I mean, all these other people were doing it on their own already, you know?

[47] And like some people were like buy this print and I'll donate all the money for it to like, you know, and all these immediate, beautiful portraits people were selling, selling me. People, what if people were selling me portraits?

[48] How much did you pay?

[49] That's good.

[50] That seems like they're taking advantage.

[51] I'm a shoddy, right?

[52] No, just like the beautiful drawings that they have, that I have of him.

[53] And all over my house are like murderino memorabilia of Elvis, which is beautiful and hard, but it will be easier, you know, as time goes on.

[54] But yeah, it's really, I mean, just another example of how incredible the listeners we have are and yeah they're big animal people to begin with so this I think got a lot of people where they live and there was a lot of people like kind of telling stories people that lost their pets this year and it's you know it's it's been a hard enough year for everybody there's there's lots of loss this year so I think this was kind of one that people it took even though he was 16 yeah he still seemed you know it's like he sounds great every time you hear him on the show It's like, you know, only you knew, like, the truth of his health and his age.

[55] Right.

[56] But I do want to say he didn't.

[57] He was okay up until the last minute, like really, literally the last two days.

[58] And he wasn't in any pain.

[59] And, you know, we had this lovely nice lady vet come and, you know, while he was on my lap.

[60] And it couldn't, we couldn't have been luckier to have him so long and have it be.

[61] a peaceful passing and then have the huge amount of support that we had.

[62] And so I'm really grateful for that.

[63] Yeah.

[64] 16 years is so long to have a pet.

[65] You know, that's what I asked him for when like a couple of years ago he got sick and had these kidney issues and almost died.

[66] And I just said to him, you know, I just said, I just need 16 years.

[67] Just please give me 16 years.

[68] That's like, I don't know why that number just like I had a cat live to be 20.

[69] I was like, I need 16 years of you.

[70] And literally two months ago, he turned 16.

[71] And then he just started to kind of go downhill.

[72] So, you know, he...

[73] So he understands English.

[74] You're saying he speaks English.

[75] That's right.

[76] Just he was loyal to the end.

[77] I don't know.

[78] There's just something special about that to me. And so, you know, every...

[79] Yes.

[80] Yeah.

[81] He is a very special cat.

[82] Yeah.

[83] And now he's going to live in infamy.

[84] I mean, you kind of can't ask for much more.

[85] Yeah, he's legendary.

[86] He's legendary.

[87] How about he lives in infamy instead of infamy?

[88] Oh, you didn't hear about the bank robbery?

[89] Oh, that would be so cute.

[90] I know.

[91] He would just kind of sneak in.

[92] No one's paying attention.

[93] A little bandit.

[94] One teller can't explain what's happening.

[95] It's so hard to describe what he looked like.

[96] Oh, that'd be adorable.

[97] Oh.

[98] I mean, yeah.

[99] I don't it's like what's funny is you've said it's like you so actively loved that cat you know you always pulled him into everything you always wanted him to be like front and center so it's not like people don't understand how much that cat meant to you right how central he was to you it's like you know you both kind of lived it so yeah that's why it meant so much to people's because they knew how much it meant to you because you always made that really clear so yeah you know it's I think it's really kind of nice because that's your vulnerability and you basically sharing a part of your life with people and you know yeah that's that's what happens in life he made me so happy and I wanted him I wanted everyone else to have that too and I think it worked so yeah but yeah but life yeah it feels different now and I don't I don't know so then I got a call from you like a week later that's bombshell city so yeah then I It was, I couldn't stop laughing, even though it's truly one of the worst things that's happened to me lately.

[100] George, my dog George had pulled her ACL.

[101] So she's been limping.

[102] She's basically been hopping around on three legs for about a month.

[103] And when I first took her to the vet, she could kind of put her foot down every once in while.

[104] And then she, over a couple of weeks, stopped doing it.

[105] Then I noticed her behavior was changing in different ways.

[106] Finally, she stopped eating.

[107] So then I had an appointment set.

[108] And I was like, like, can we move that up because something else is going on?

[109] So I take her to the vet and then it's all COVID set up.

[110] So she gets taken in and I'm just sitting in my car in the parking lot and then they call me. And the vet says your dog has bone cancer.

[111] And so then I have to decide basically and he's like, basically we can amputate her leg or you can put her to sleep.

[112] And your dog of, what was it, 14 years?

[113] She is, yeah, she's almost 14.

[114] And I believe I've had her eight of those 14 years.

[115] Very dark, awful.

[116] Of course, I picked the surgery.

[117] And then I had to call Georgia laughing, going, you are not going to fucking believe what I'm about to tell you.

[118] You're like, I'm not stealing your thunder.

[119] I'm not trying to one up you.

[120] I literally said, I don't think we can tell people about this because I'm going to look insane.

[121] I'm going to look like...

[122] Like you're stealing my spotlight.

[123] I can't let her have it for a minute.

[124] She can't have her sorrow spotlight.

[125] I need my sorrow spotlight.

[126] Oh, well, I want sorrow too.

[127] Well, anyway, I'm lucky enough to be able to say George May is making a full recovery.

[128] She has three legs.

[129] We're renaming her pirate George.

[130] It all suits her very well.

[131] And she's actually, like, she's been...

[132] She was loopy the first couple days and it was kind of a bummer and scary, obviously.

[133] very weird but like on day three she popped up and I looked her and went do you want to eat I have to spell it because she'll fucking jump up but and then she just was like it was like she was kind of back to normal and running she's not there's no kind of like in between you know rehab part of it she's back and she's fine on three legs well I'm not in pain anymore so who gives a shit and just so hey yeah so let's go up and down some stairs so yeah yeah George's um she's had her a life adjustment but she's doing great um and uh yeah so let's space it out let's space it like a year apart if we could i mean that was that thing where it's just like I was like yeah let's not record and let's maybe let's not just record for the rest of the year because what the fuck is going on I definitely appreciate having the week got like a week or two off of like responding to people you know it's like well it's not a very fun um yeah it's not it you're grieve you are grieving so it's just like we're what are going to record you know what i mean like that's like that's really not the that's not what we do or how we do it well i'm glad george is feeling good um i was going to i have a photograph for you of some cookies that vince and i made for holiday the holidays and we're going to bring you and And you might just get a photograph because we've been too lazy to leave the house to bring them to you.

[134] Oh, don't.

[135] The last thing I need is cookies, honestly.

[136] I thought you'd appreciate the laziness of it.

[137] If anyone's going to be like.

[138] Text them right over.

[139] Text those cookies.

[140] Yeah.

[141] I might end up eating them and sending you the photo of them.

[142] I mean, I feel like also it's just, I feel like if I think all of America needs to fall down and take care of.

[143] of themselves this holiday season.

[144] Everybody needs to lay on the couch, start a Netflix series that you don't even care about, eat what you want, be nice to yourself and to other people, like take it easy, put down social media.

[145] Everything is hysteria.

[146] Everything is insanity.

[147] And like, you know, we've had a full year of it.

[148] A year of it.

[149] That's really my plan for the next two weeks is just to be gentle with myself.

[150] And I will say, so I haven't, of course, wanted to watch all the dark, deep, depressing shit that I normally want to watch.

[151] So I've been watching, yeah, the comeback has been a real, the best, real great distraction with Lisa Kudra.

[152] Of course, I highly recommend if you need a distraction.

[153] It's a little cringy, but it's so fucking good.

[154] A little.

[155] It's horrible.

[156] The whole point is that it's cringy, but it's because Lisa Kudra is such an incredible actress that she just makes it that.

[157] way it's a great show it's so subtle she's like the thing she's doing in that show it's overtly subtle somehow well it's very realistic it's just like that's she's clearly i think thinking of a specific person it's someone she knows or whatever but it's just like it you never think about Lisa Kudrow the actress never this person um Valerie cherished is such a real person yeah and you're just like gripping white knuckling it yeah from the fucking from her house the set of the everything about it is perfection so definitely watch the comeback if you need a nice distraction yes it's a great series yeah now did you did you watch the stand no i haven't watched it yet i mean is it great it's good it's funny because you know you you read there's there was a lot of uh reviews of it and people kind of like playing it down and then when i went to see it i was just like what are they talking about it's better than ever.

[158] Like, I love this thing.

[159] So I think I just, I've been waiting so long since, like, the first time we didn't add for it.

[160] Yeah.

[161] I was so excited.

[162] Um, but it's great.

[163] It sounds like a perfect distraction.

[164] I love that.

[165] It's really good.

[166] Okay.

[167] So another really pure show that I've really enjoyed and Vincent are watching is Taste the Nation by Padma Lakshmi, who's just really smart, interesting woman.

[168] Um, and she just travels the country, the nation even.

[169] Just, Yeah, tasting it.

[170] But like really authentic stuff.

[171] Like finding out where burritos actually come from and why they, you know, they were what they were.

[172] And it made us go into Boyle Heights to this like old school burrito place and get burritos because we just wanted to try them.

[173] It's like a really lovely show.

[174] Were they amazing?

[175] They were incredible.

[176] It's just meat.

[177] There's no like the whole like huge overstuffed burrito thing is is like a current thing.

[178] It wasn't that way before.

[179] It's really.

[180] fascinating.

[181] So she does all those interesting cultures and tells you about them.

[182] And it's just like a, it's a nice distraction show.

[183] And it'll make you really hungry.

[184] And then maybe it'll make you like search out some authentic food in your town, which I think is always a positive thing.

[185] Is that a Netflix one too?

[186] Yeah, that's on Netflix.

[187] I hope.

[188] Let me double check.

[189] And I love top chef.

[190] So Padma is like a favorite.

[191] You have never watched that show.

[192] Shut your face.

[193] I can't.

[194] Karen, you're going to love it.

[195] I can't believe that because it's great.

[196] I never have.

[197] I think it's just one of those ones that it, I don't know, it got by me somehow.

[198] And then people would talk about it and then I didn't know what they were talking about.

[199] So then I was like, it's not for me because I missed it.

[200] So Taste the Nations on Hulu with Padma.

[201] Oh, that's Hulu.

[202] You have to watch Top Chef.

[203] It's like one of my favorite competition shows.

[204] Okay.

[205] It's so good.

[206] Let me send you a good season.

[207] Like Richard Blaze's season is one of my favorites.

[208] it's you just have to and all these characters and oh my god now i did watch iron chef which like was in so good that thing was the greatest the original version did you did you watch that way back when before me too yes one of my and even the even the like current one that's not just subtitles is so fucking good as well that was my dream when we were on cooking channel is to be a fucking judge on iron chef yeah never happened i was heartbroken heartbroken heart Wouldn't you have to have your own restaurant or somehow be...

[209] I had a cooking channel TV show.

[210] No, no, no. I don't want to be a contestant.

[211] I want to be a judge.

[212] I want to taste the food.

[213] Right.

[214] Oh, they had all kinds of weirdos on that show.

[215] The judges were like randos.

[216] I could have been a judge.

[217] You're like, why can't I be a judge?

[218] Oh, I thought the judges were...

[219] Well, the original one that I saw like that.

[220] Because I think it was like late night food network, wasn't it?

[221] Yeah.

[222] Like maybe even before Food Network was like Food Network, whatever.

[223] But, yeah, they would have, like, well, so the current one would be like, yeah, there'd be like a restaurateur and a cookbook author.

[224] And then there'd be like a random, like, Steve Austin, the wrestler.

[225] So, like, it'd be just some random person who loves food.

[226] I like, I like it.

[227] Yeah.

[228] So I feel like I could have done it.

[229] And then one of my favorite party questions when there used to be parties was if you could be a judge on Iron Chef, what would your, like, dream ingredient be?

[230] Because, you know, it's like, you have to cook with asparagus this week or you have to cook with.

[231] Right.

[232] Like, what would your, like, fascinating?

[233] worse yeah yeah squid ink yeah gross there was always in those early ones that were it was Japanese right it was from Japan there was always a thing where I was like because I don't like seafood at all so then there was always a thing where everything was it where I was like I'm glad I'm not there oh I'm glad I don't know smell them cooking that but of course it was always you know amazing they did that was the whole the American version was cool because it'd be like it'd be like eggs but then it'd be like ostrich eggs and like you know like roe and just like really interesting stuff like that.

[234] So I always thought that would be really cool.

[235] So I'm a little heartbroken that I never got to be a judge on that show.

[236] Well, it's not too late.

[237] I think it is.

[238] That's what I got you for Christmas.

[239] You brought back Iron Chef.

[240] Yeah.

[241] I called Bobby Flay.

[242] I said, Bob's, listen, it's for Georgia.

[243] She's been having a hard time.

[244] You know, I had drinks with Bobby Flay once at the Soho House because he was big -timing us.

[245] No, he wasn't.

[246] We just really wanted to go to the So -Hallie and I met him to like talk about maybe doing a TV show, and he was so lovely and a really amazing person.

[247] And then we saw him make his barbecuing, not but grilling TV show.

[248] And he's just like professional, but then we never heard back from him.

[249] But lovely guy, lovely guy.

[250] You want to hear about a podcast I listened to?

[251] Oh, yeah.

[252] I have a book.

[253] Go ahead.

[254] Let's see.

[255] Well, a couple.

[256] I'll do it chronologically.

[257] So the first one I listened to that England's owned April.

[258] Richardson recommended to me when I talked to her, like last month, it's a T, it's a, sorry, it's a podcast called Camelian, the Hollywood con queen.

[259] Yes.

[260] Did you listen to it?

[261] No, but it's, I subscribe.

[262] It's on my list.

[263] Okay.

[264] Is it amazing?

[265] It's unbelievable.

[266] Tell me. It's unbelievable.

[267] The premise?

[268] Well, it's people who are not huge in show business in Hollywood start getting conned by, by this woman who calls them and books them for jobs.

[269] in, I believe it was Singapore.

[270] Then they go to Singapore.

[271] On their own dime kind of a thing.

[272] On their own dime because it's like they, yes, they get talked into it.

[273] And there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of parts of the business where it is that kind of thing.

[274] Like you get there, then our travel department will pay you back or whatever.

[275] There's a lot of that kind of stuff.

[276] And it like basically playing on the desperation of people of like, this is my break.

[277] This is my big break.

[278] It's such.

[279] But that's how it starts and you're like, that's really fucked up.

[280] and then it begins to develop into a whole other thing and it's really satisfying it clipped along so fast it's such an amazing story yeah it was it was unbelievable that one's like that one's like super trending right now I have that one on my list I think it got really popular because the story is it's like a dirty John level story that like everyone you know in the podcast biz people are looking for like what's the story that really has it or whatever whatever.

[281] And this thing is like, this thing has like seven stories.

[282] And when they break while the podcast is recording and while they're reporting on the story and it breaks podcasty live, it's so exciting.

[283] Yeah.

[284] Yeah.

[285] It has it all.

[286] So yeah, if you're looking for new one, Camelian, the Hollywood Con Queen.

[287] Awesome.

[288] I'm into it.

[289] Um, is there not, what's the other ones that you're listening to?

[290] Oh, then the next, well, basically then I was kind of going along because I really, lately I'm loving a scam story, a really, a really, you know, journalistically investigated scam story because I feel like the more people are going to be in peril with money, the more scammers are going to be trying to scam people in all different ways.

[291] So true.

[292] So, but this one, this one, it's called smokescreen fake priest.

[293] And it's by the neon hum, the people that did Dr. Death.

[294] And it is, again, one of those stories where as you're listening, you're like sorry what is happening what is happening you find out oh great you will meet him it is unbelievable and he just con the shit out of people into fake baptisms and stuff it's because and this is again that thing where it's um he he uh presented himself to be a priest that that did latin mass and he was like a traditionalist catholic priest so it was like because you know vatican too in the 60s basically was like, all right, you don't have to eat fish every Friday and you don't have to, like the mass doesn't have to be in Latin and all that stuff.

[295] But there was lots of people who are like, that's not the real thing if you're doing it, this new, this quote unquote new way.

[296] You're not a real Baptist.

[297] You just have to hear it.

[298] It's just like, it's unbelievable.

[299] But is that kind of thing of, again, these area, these certain areas that scam artists always gravitate to because you do not question the church.

[300] You don't question religion or religious leaders.

[301] And And those people scam people like crazy.

[302] It's amazing.

[303] Oh, that's awful.

[304] Yeah.

[305] And then just the most recent one, I always rave about the Canadian, the CBC broadcasts and the Canadian investigative journalists.

[306] I went back into the uncover series.

[307] Oh, yeah.

[308] They're the ones that did Nexium first.

[309] Yes.

[310] But they have now, I think, eight seasons.

[311] There's so many good ones.

[312] And the most recent one is season four.

[313] It's the cat lady murder.

[314] and it is it's you have to hear it it's just another one of those ones where it's it's people scamming old people yeah and the elderly and but it's that one's actually very it's less entertaining and more like oh god this is such a bummer it's so dark the idea that people like prey upon and exploit the elderly and people in nursing homes and then it's like life saving situations I know I have a friend who that happened to or his the bank called quote unquote called his dad and was like you need to get all your money out of the bank there's been a breach turn turn it into you know amazon gift cards and then call us and read us the number of the amazon gift like something so simple like that that if you just called our friend his son and been like this is happening his son would have been like that's a scam but yeah of course he's like oh this is an emergency and didn't and they you know what in in one of these and i think it was the chameleon um they had they interviewed that woman who I talked about her book that I love so much and she talks about the con men her name's Maria but they talk about that that's one element of scam artists is it's always a rush you have to you're going to get the job but you have to answer me you need to answer within the hour you have to it's the bank things happening you have to do it right now or so it's all they create a false sense of emergency it's a big rush rush and it's emergency and time like you're running out of time.

[315] And that's how you know that's like step one of a scam is that you can't take 15 minutes to call a younger person and go, is this real?

[316] Right.

[317] Because you have to do it right now.

[318] Or to even consider it yourself, which you probably would be like, wait a minute, I shouldn't be doing this.

[319] Yeah.

[320] I know.

[321] Oh my God.

[322] I know.

[323] Guys, send us your hometowns about scams that you've fallen for, that someone you know is falling for, that you almost fell for, that you played on someone else.

[324] You can be anonymous.

[325] I want to hear scam stories, don't you?

[326] Scam stories are, they're amazing.

[327] Oh, yeah, and there's a thousand podcasts that feature that, which you can listen to all of those too, but there's, but also it's good to learn from other people.

[328] And that's that's another thing they talk about is people that get scammed, don't talk about it because they're so embarrassed and they're so ashamed and they don't want anyone else to know.

[329] Oh my God, because people go, how could you have given someone $6 ,000?

[330] And it's like, if you thought you were about to.

[331] to get a huge job with this, you know, the Hollywood con queen using these huge director's names.

[332] You think you're about to get this big job where it's David Fincher shooting in this place or whatever.

[333] And it's not like they don't have evidence.

[334] It's not like they're just like, great, here's $6 ,000.

[335] It's like that $6 ,000 is a couple thousand over a period of time.

[336] So you're already in it deep.

[337] And they've given you evidence as to, you know, quote unquote evidence as to why they're legit.

[338] And so you've believed those, which makes it easier to keep believing.

[339] Because you don't, you don't want to get scammed at $3 ,000.

[340] So it takes $6 ,000 to finally admit it that it's gone.

[341] Yes.

[342] And even then you don't totally know.

[343] Yeah, that's fucking crazy.

[344] That's a good one.

[345] It's, yeah.

[346] So Karen's need.

[347] I'm all about those scams.

[348] Watch out.

[349] Scams and flams.

[350] I'm reading a book.

[351] Well, so we were also, oh, the other thing we were watching was just bad Christmas movies.

[352] Yes.

[353] Karen, have you seen?

[354] the movie Family Stone Oh my I never seen it Yes Vince and I watch it for the first time And we were I feel like I'm gonna anger Half the murderinos You will This is a very divisive film I didn't know this I didn't know anything about it I had never seen it And then I looked it up to read all the negative reviews and all there was is positive reviews Yeah I'm just gonna say What a movie Wow Wow what a movie I refuse to I can indict myself.

[355] Well, I will, I will indict myself because who gives a shit?

[356] What's funny is, you missed the, um, the staff Zoom meeting where we had this discussion.

[357] No, you didn't.

[358] Yes, because someone recommended it and then Katrina.

[359] Guys, we have these, can we just say our, okay, we have staff meetings every Friday morning with the now huge exactly right, uh, employees.

[360] Like, we have what, we have an 11 employees.

[361] That's huge.

[362] That's a huge to us.

[363] We have 11 employees and everyone kind of fills each other in on what's been going on that week.

[364] And now we started doing this thing at the end where you just recommend something.

[365] Usually it's a TV show or a book or whatever.

[366] And I was gone the week that Elvis passed away.

[367] And so I fucking missed this conversation.

[368] You miss the Family Stone debate.

[369] It was hilarious.

[370] Tell me everything.

[371] It was so funny.

[372] Well, I'm busting Katrina right now, but I think she would be fine with it because she was just like, that movie is terrible.

[373] And then I start laughing because I'm like, I love it.

[374] You do.

[375] I could see it being one of those ones afterwards.

[376] We're like, God, that movie, I need to watch it again.

[377] And then being like, okay, I get it.

[378] Yep.

[379] There's something about it that is, it's corny and everything, but there's a Christmas element to it.

[380] And I'm sorry, but Luke Wilson does it for me. Hey, fucking men.

[381] Right?

[382] In that movie, he's almost like a sweatpants.

[383] Yeah, he's like Mr. Caj and he's kind of like, he just immediately knows he, well, like, spoiler, but he immediately knows he loves Sarah Jessica Parker.

[384] He's just like, oh, well, I'm in love with you.

[385] It's like the most natural kind of like love at first sight, but a boy doing it, which you never get to see in any movie.

[386] Especially with an uptight woman, you know, like an uptight anal woman, quote unquote.

[387] It's like, oh, you still, you know, you fall in love with her.

[388] It's not like, she's quirky and falls down the bus stairs.

[389] and then you fall in love with her, even though it's your sister, your fucking fiancee's sister, which I, that part lost me. It's your, no, it's his brother.

[390] If it's his point of view, it's his brother's fiance.

[391] Yes, but I'm talking about, I'm talking about Claire Dane's character.

[392] Claire Dane's.

[393] Right, right, right.

[394] Okay.

[395] Well, yeah.

[396] It's definitely a movie.

[397] And we can all agree on that.

[398] It is a movie for this.

[399] It is a movie reflective of Christmas or the holidays in general, I guess.

[400] And then we did Home for the Holidays with, of course, Robert Downey Jr. Thank you.

[401] Holly Hunter.

[402] Thank you.

[403] So that was fun.

[404] Hadn't seen those before.

[405] Oh.

[406] So that's another great one, but it's a different vibe.

[407] What's another good one that's like, you got to watch it?

[408] For the holidays, I think people always like to talk about on Twitter how, you know, like die hard to Christmas movie.

[409] And now the joke has become on Twitter naming.

[410] a thing that's a Christmas movie because there's one like one tree in the background or whatever but the Ryan Reynolds movie Best Friends is one of the greatest it is a LOL for real movie they're like undercover cops or something no it's actually very it's problematic for 2020 they're all problematic well and so Ryan Reynolds basically it's like he's now successful like I think he's supposed to be like a music agent or something but in high school he was fat and he had this best friend who he was in love with and she would she didn't think he she could ever like him yeah and then he goes home for the holidays right and now an arbitrary number on a scale means that he's lovable and worth worthy of love and right but see he has this he now is a ryan reynolds type exactly so then he thinks no i got it but he's actually kind of a scumbag so she's like oh you're different And it very much is like She actually loved him before I feel but you have to watch it Who's the she in it?

[411] I can't remember I'm so sorry It's called Jess Friend Oh no look at his fat suit I know Amy smart Amy smart I got it first You're fired you're fired She's really good She's really good She's really good But it is there are jokes in this thing That I laugh out loud When I watch this movie And it is legitimately a Christmas movie.

[412] Okay, great.

[413] I'm doing it.

[414] I love it.

[415] Yeah, that's perfect.

[416] Thank you.

[417] Just friends.

[418] Just friends.

[419] Ryan Reynolds never forget that Ryan Reynolds is the real deal.

[420] Okay.

[421] And I'm reading a book called Good Morning Monster by Catherine.

[422] Is it a children's book?

[423] It does sound like that, huh?

[424] By Catherine Gildnier.

[425] And it's basically this woman, it's kind of a memoir type.

[426] thing.

[427] Catherine Gildnyer is a therapist.

[428] And in the book, she presents five of what she calls her most heroic and memorable patients.

[429] So it's like five chapters of these patients that like transformed her as a therapist.

[430] So one of the, one I'm listening to right now is like her first patient and like how hard it, how hard it was for this patient to admit that she had childhood trauma and understand that what she went through, even to every, you know, to everyone else were like girl you went through some shit but like she was like nope I did what I had to do but like really you were nine years old and abandoned and like she just couldn't even handle it so it's just I think it's really good for people who are like interested in therapy but don't know what it's like it sounds great yeah like don't know how to break through with their own shit it's definitely helping me where I'm like oh I think my life is totally normal and my therapist is like trying to knock down these walls but she she can't knock them down she needs me to knock them down and So what am I, you know, what tools am I not equipping myself with to knock down set?

[431] I've been watching a lot of HGTV too.

[432] I'm trying to have an open concept brain and it's just really hard.

[433] You want to put an island right in the middle of your personality.

[434] But all I have.

[435] And just so you can like, I can cook and then watch the kids do homework.

[436] And all I have is ball peen hammer that I'm trying to fucking knock the wall down with it.

[437] It's not working.

[438] You have to pull that drywall down with your hands with your fingernail sometimes.

[439] But I'm using a butter knife.

[440] It just doesn't make any.

[441] sense.

[442] That sounds great.

[443] That's really good morning monster.

[444] I'm going to write that down so I can get on here and recommend it in two months.

[445] Good morning.

[446] Good morning.

[447] Monster.

[448] That sounds great.

[449] And then let's see, am I listening to anything else?

[450] The Vanishing Half by Britt Bennett, I finished and I fucking highly recommend it.

[451] That was the one I talked about last time about different generations of a family, but I didn't realize it was really like mother, sister relationships.

[452] That's really cool.

[453] So I like that one a lot.

[454] Very relevant.

[455] Like, that's how I got.

[456] Anything else for you?

[457] I mean, that's a lot.

[458] That's a lot.

[459] That's a lot.

[460] That's a lot.

[461] Oh, can I do one more, um, cottage core new obsession?

[462] Please, there is a cottage core corner.

[463] It's cottage core time.

[464] Let's hear it.

[465] This one, this one.

[466] You made your own clock.

[467] Great.

[468] I made my own time.

[469] Uh, this one combines, uh, dollhouses, two of my loves, dollhouses and decaying, haunted houses.

[470] So people are making doll houses, but making them like abandoned haunted houses instead of park.

[471] How great is that?

[472] I think that's genius.

[473] I think I've found the one.

[474] A bunch of people are doing this.

[475] I don't know.

[476] The only one I found, it's called, it's an Instagram called Southern Gothic dollhouse.

[477] And it's straight up looks like the haunted mansion at fucking Disneyland, like cobwebs and, you know, decaying things and like using teeth as like tile.

[478] It's just creepy.

[479] be and cool.

[480] That's great.

[481] I like that.

[482] There's so much artistry that goes into that I think doesn't, has never gotten the respect.

[483] It deserves like once we talked about, you know, could there even be mid -century dollhouses?

[484] Yeah.

[485] I get pictures of them constantly on Twitter now because there are a ton.

[486] Yeah.

[487] And like, it's, there are lots of people that are into it and do it and they're gorgeously put together.

[488] Like, it's, it's really cool.

[489] And it's so funny because it's such a thing that's like it's it's there's no per like they're doing it because they love it like they're not going to do anything with that doll house it's not like you're going to walk in their living around and be like wow you decorated it well it's like going to be a doll house on a mantle somewhere that only they get to enjoy and Instagram perhaps a child or two what why no don't bother that sounds boring get them away from there oh and then there's a sky he's an artist named Ryan Thomas Monaghan on Instagram it's what underscore the hell and he does the most incredible, like, decaying cityscapes and actually did like an abandoned vintage McDonald's scene in full miniatures.

[490] That is one of the coolest things I've ever seen.

[491] So check out what underscore the hell as well.

[492] Actually, speaking of, but it's a little bit rando, but from the last time we recorded, we were talking about murder on Middle Beach.

[493] And at one point, I said, I don't know why it's called.

[494] Oh, yeah.

[495] And Liz Prince wrote to me on Twitter at Comic Nerd N -R -R -D.

[496] And she wrote, regarding the conversation that Karen Colger from Georgia Hardstark had about why murder on Middle Beach was called that in last week, my favorite murder episode, number one, the murder took place on Middle Beach Road.

[497] Yeah, no, that makes total sense.

[498] That was the whole tweet where I was like, damn it, Liz.

[499] But then there was an attached tweet to that, which I didn't for some reason.

[500] and take a picture of but she basically said their last name was Beach and murder on Middle Beach is Mom Beach and then she wrote number four I'm a nerd and so thank you Liz for that was help we needed that was help we were asking for and it's so obvious now that you pointed out but I never noticed stuff like that I mean clearly I didn't even retain the information that that was the street they were on.

[501] And it was done in a non -showy offy way, which we always appreciate.

[502] And you were self -deprecating, which is always an ingratiating thing.

[503] It's nice to not be yelled at.

[504] Are we done talking about ourselves for, I think so?

[505] 50 minutes, 50 or so minutes?

[506] 50 or so, I mean, look, it's nice to have company.

[507] Yeah.

[508] You can't take that away from me. Speaking of ourselves, let's do exactly right news.

[509] Oh, yeah.

[510] Yeah, yeah.

[511] Let's talk about some shows.

[512] Well, our new show Tenfold More Wicked, which is our first limited series, like, kind of docu true crime by the great Kate Winkler Dawson.

[513] It has actually been included in Apple Podcasts, top true crime podcasts, which is very exciting.

[514] So, yeah.

[515] And then just so you know, this season of it will be ending, like at the end of this year, and then a second season, is going to start next year.

[516] So she's done so much work.

[517] She's got this stuff ready to go.

[518] I mean, she's an incredibly accomplished author.

[519] And her books are amazing if you haven't read me. Look her up because they're so good.

[520] And so, yeah, she's got that content ready to podcast about that.

[521] Speaking of lists, that's messed up.

[522] Our SVU podcast, hosted by Kara Clank and Lisa Traeger is trending on iTunes, which is so rad.

[523] Thank you guys so much.

[524] We're glad you love.

[525] That's messed up as much as we do.

[526] Yeah.

[527] Thanks for supporting it and subscribing and giving it great reviews.

[528] It really makes a difference.

[529] For all those, all the podcasts.

[530] Also, this week's episode, the legendary actress Marcia Gay Hardin is the SVU cast member that they interview, which is just like, it's the coolest booking.

[531] It is what an honor.

[532] It's so cool.

[533] And speaking of Christmas movies on I Saw What You Did.

[534] One of my absolute favorite Christmas movies is discussed Scrooged.

[535] So check that.

[536] They also cover the silent partner.

[537] So check those.

[538] Check out I saw what you did.

[539] That's another podcast that's doing really good.

[540] It's been rating in the movie movie and TV category, which is very cool.

[541] And those Millian Danielle are the greatest.

[542] Even if you're not super into cinema, it's such a great podcast where they just kind of talk about.

[543] It's because it gives you great ideas for movies and why to watch them.

[544] And it's like hanging out with your friends.

[545] So, yeah, it's really fun.

[546] Then, freaking speaking of lists, the podcast, Bananas, was on Vulture's top 10 comedy podcasts of 2020, which is so huge.

[547] We are so proud of Kurt and Scotty.

[548] So make sure you check out bananas.

[549] They have incredible guests.

[550] It's such a fun, lighthearted podcast.

[551] Weird news.

[552] There's nothing funnier than weird news because it really happened.

[553] It's not just people talking about bullshit.

[554] They're reading you real actual news articles from Florida and around the world.

[555] And they're really good stories.

[556] So get exactly right.

[557] Oh, oh.

[558] Also, I said no gifts.

[559] Bridger Wienerernerger's wonderful podcast was featured on the iTunes new and noteworthy page, which was very exciting.

[560] Y 'all, we're trending and shit.

[561] y 'all thank you for you got a rate review and subscribe those are the ways we get on those lists and everyone on the network appreciates those little bumps yeah they do oh and also if you're looking if you're still looking for something to watch stephen and sarah on the on the per cast talk about the garfield christmas special emmy nominated how dare you not say that i'm so sorry a classic classic an emmy legend A perfect activity for the holiday, whoever wrote this.

[562] That was another one that we talked about in the staff meeting because people were talking about remembering it, watching it when they were a little loving it, and it being really touching.

[563] Yeah.

[564] Garfield Christmas special.

[565] Yeah.

[566] So check that out on the per cast.

[567] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[568] Absolutely.

[569] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[570] Exactly.

[571] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[572] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[573] That's right.

[574] Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere, online, in -store, on social media, and beyond.

[575] Give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[576] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in person.

[577] So give your point -of -sale system a serious upgrade with Shopify.

[578] Their sleek, reliable POS hardware takes every major payment method and looks fabulous at the same time.

[579] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can too.

[580] Connect with customers in line and online.

[581] Do retail right with Shopify.

[582] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[583] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

[584] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[585] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[586] Goodbye.

[587] All right, let's get into this.

[588] We've done it.

[589] We're about to introduce, this is a quilt episode for you.

[590] Oh, wait, Stephen, who goes first in this quilt episode?

[591] Georgia.

[592] Oh.

[593] Because the former fan called exclusive live show, Georgia went last in that one.

[594] All right.

[595] Perfect.

[596] At least there's a logic to it.

[597] That's all that matters.

[598] Someone's making decisions.

[599] Whatever you want, and I'll believe it.

[600] All right.

[601] Well, I am so excited about this one, because.

[602] Because it involves a heroic cat.

[603] So I feel like it's the perfect setting.

[604] It's perfect.

[605] Right?

[606] So apt.

[607] This was from a show in Pittsburgh at the Benadem Center on March 14th, 2019.

[608] So not that long ago.

[609] Very recent.

[610] Right.

[611] And this is the murder of Lori Ann Ocker.

[612] Enjoy.

[613] All right.

[614] Amazing.

[615] We're going to do the murder of Lori Ann Ocker.

[616] Here she is.

[617] That's what I didn't want you to click on.

[618] Lori Ann Ocker.

[619] All right.

[620] So this fucking, this story is Forensic Files' fucking Wet Dream.

[621] Like, I'm not even kidding you.

[622] The producer probably pissed him or herself when they saw this.

[623] The episode's called Cats, Flies, and Snapshots.

[624] Oh.

[625] Someone was like, we got to get this out.

[626] Let's get this out and name it anything.

[627] And it's kind of like our theme that we like lately of pet heroes.

[628] There's a tinge of that involved too.

[629] That's right.

[630] You doesn't like a pet hero.

[631] Pet heroes.

[632] But I bet the trend to come after pet heroes is going to be pet scumbags.

[633] Pets who have stolen from you.

[634] Pets who crush your car.

[635] Stale your change from your purse.

[636] Flip you off behind your back.

[637] Okay, so Lori Ann Ocker grows up in a quiet agricultural area known as Susquehanna.

[638] Thank you.

[639] How many times did you say that in your hotel room?

[640] Three.

[641] The Susquehanna Valley in central Pennsylvania.

[642] It's about 100 miles from Syracuse.

[643] You know what?

[644] Okay.

[645] I don't know if you guys hate Syracuse.

[646] The thing where we go to a city and they like hate the next town over, but we don't know.

[647] so they start booing, and we're like, why are you booing?

[648] We're from L .A. Okay.

[649] So she's a typical 80s teenager.

[650] She's a sweet girl.

[651] Her friends, I'll say she's just normal and lovely.

[652] She loves animals, and she wants to be a vet when she grows up.

[653] So she marries this dude Robert Ocker right out of high school when she's 19.

[654] He's 10 years older than her.

[655] Hot.

[656] And he works in a, what you say?

[657] Hot.

[658] It is.

[659] Man knows.

[660] what he's doing.

[661] It's hot when you're 19, and then you become the age that they were, and you're like, what the fuck?

[662] He doesn't know shit.

[663] But when you're 19?

[664] Hot.

[665] So hot.

[666] A 29 -year -old wants to date me, and then you become 29, and you're like, that's disgusting.

[667] He just had a job.

[668] That's all I liked.

[669] Yeah, he had a car and a job.

[670] So they get married.

[671] He works in a warehouse.

[672] They soon have a son.

[673] They named Matthew, and they need to make more money.

[674] So Lori wanting to be a vet and loving animals gets a job at a pet store in the local Susquehanna Mall.

[675] Yes, okay.

[676] And this, you know, this isn't a pet store, like, they sell pet products.

[677] This is the 80s, so they probably sell pets.

[678] But don't get mad.

[679] It's just how it was at the time.

[680] I mean, you could truly get, you could get a monkey if you wanted.

[681] You could get a full -sized helo monster.

[682] There was bunnies.

[683] They were all in the same cage.

[684] You get to pet them, and then just put them back.

[685] Yeah.

[686] Touch your eyes.

[687] It was great.

[688] All at the mall.

[689] Yeah.

[690] But she loved animals.

[691] That's where she worked.

[692] And she'd take her son, Matthew, there was like a little baby.

[693] She'd take him there whenever she wasn't working and he loved animals.

[694] And she just showed him all the animals and wanted him to, like, be friendly with them.

[695] Very sweet.

[696] Okay.

[697] So after he's born, though, Lori and Robert start having problems.

[698] And Lori's not happy because Rob is super controlling.

[699] She had to answer a million questions before she was allowed to leave the house.

[700] and...

[701] Fucking old guys.

[702] Yeah.

[703] Where are you going?

[704] What are you doing?

[705] How many fingers am I holding off?

[706] I don't know.

[707] I couldn't think of another one.

[708] Just like, shut up and take your osteoporosis medicine, dad.

[709] And he used physical discipline when he was upset with his kid.

[710] So she was like, fuck this shit.

[711] They're fighting all the time.

[712] And so they separate after 18 months of marriage.

[713] and Lori and her baby Matthew move in with her parents while Robert moves back in with his parents and he has visitation rights with Matthew.

[714] So let's get to the day of the disappearance.

[715] Oh, there's a disappearance by then.

[716] On, uh, what's the, oh, let me show you the Sasquahana Mall, vintage.

[717] I tried to find old photos of it, but it's a network.

[718] Saskwana Valley Mall.

[719] Here's this dick.

[720] What, is there a slight pronunciation difference?

[721] Susque, Susque, Susquehanna.

[722] Okay, thank you.

[723] Susquehanna.

[724] Susquehanna.

[725] Jesus Christ.

[726] If you, if you, just wait till you get up here.

[727] That's that asshole.

[728] There is.

[729] Oh, okay.

[730] Okay.

[731] Seems so old.

[732] He's 10 years older.

[733] Gross.

[734] And what?

[735] So, okay, May 24th, 4th, 24th.

[736] May 21th?

[737] Nothing.

[738] Okay.

[739] May 24th, 1989.

[740] Your favorite year?

[741] Well, it was right after my birthday, so I was still hung over.

[742] My birthday's on the 11th.

[743] So Lori's getting ready to go to work.

[744] It's her normal shift, 4 to 9 at the pet store.

[745] And Matthew, the son is with.

[746] Robert that day.

[747] So she packs our lunch and leaves her work and in forensic files because they have to do foreshadowing, she picks up her cat and hugs it and puts it back down.

[748] And you're like, that's got to mean something.

[749] Yeah.

[750] Stephen, what does that cat symbolism mean?

[751] And this cat must have been fucking drugged because it was just like, great.

[752] Totally let her do it in the TV show.

[753] Could it have been like a Jim Henson cat puppet?

[754] Maybe.

[755] Really realistic?

[756] Yeah, I wonder how they got the cat actor because they couldn't have a budget for it so they're probably like, does anyone on set have a cat?

[757] That's super chill.

[758] Could you just bring your cat and then we just don't talk about it?

[759] Yeah.

[760] Don't call a union.

[761] We'll give them some CBD.

[762] It'll be fine.

[763] So hugs or cat goes to work.

[764] Okay, so about a half an hour later, there's a call to her house and her dad picks up and it's her boss.

[765] Where is Lori, of course?

[766] And he's like, what do you mean?

[767] She already left for work.

[768] So he drives the route, thinking maybe her car had broken down, but he doesn't find her.

[769] Then he goes to the parking lot of her work at the mall, and he finds her car there.

[770] And in the car is her purse and keys.

[771] No, they're not.

[772] No, they're not.

[773] Nothing seems out of place, and her purse and keys are gone.

[774] They're gone.

[775] Yeah.

[776] Yeah.

[777] They're not there.

[778] They're not there.

[779] It's the opposite.

[780] it.

[781] I had 50 -50 chance of getting that right.

[782] Hey, look.

[783] You're still an all -star.

[784] Thank you.

[785] Okay.

[786] And she's nowhere to be found, and her parents report her missing.

[787] Lori's disappearance fucking sends this small town crazy.

[788] They are all, it's like a conservative community, the normal shit.

[789] And they couldn't believe someone had been abducted in broad fucking daylight.

[790] So they canvassed the area.

[791] They question employees.

[792] and shoppers, but no one saw anything suspicious.

[793] And they obviously immediately suspect Robert, her ex.

[794] But he claims he hadn't seen Lori all day.

[795] He was babysitting their son.

[796] He went shopping.

[797] And then, you know, I went to these things and I did this stuff.

[798] And they're like, great, goodbye.

[799] So he has details and everything.

[800] And he said he bought a dishwasher for his mom.

[801] And she was like, it's true.

[802] So they're like, great.

[803] They're like, great.

[804] We'll never talk to you again.

[805] Right.

[806] That's all we need.

[807] So the public, police, family, friends, and volunteers continue searching for Lori with no success.

[808] But then on June 12th, about two and a half weeks after Lori's disappearance, a woman jogging a few miles from the mall, smells something bad, and she went to investigate, which means she was definitely an old school vintage murder, you know.

[809] For sure.

[810] She went to investigate, and she spots skeletal remains in a ditch along a hillside, south an area called seven points.

[811] So the remains, hold it, but this is about to be bad.

[812] The remains are dressed in a jacket, jeans and sneakers.

[813] So it's Lori's outfit, but it's skeletal remains at that point.

[814] And there's no skin, there's nothing to like really pinpoint how long she had been there for, but they are able to determine it's Lori's body.

[815] But so, doda -da -da -da -da, okay.

[816] Okay.

[817] So he sees it's Lori.

[818] He determines from, and this is like all like kind of new forensic stuff back then that they didn't really do anymore or yet.

[819] So again, I almost had it.

[820] You're there.

[821] You're there.

[822] So, of course, they see cut marks through the clothes and on the bones and realize that she had been stabbed at least seven to 11 times.

[823] And so she's identified by dental comparisons, but no murder weapons found out the scene.

[824] And so investigators bring in an entomologist to determine the cause of death, or the time of death, which is kind of a new, fangled thing, where they check how old the bugs are.

[825] You know, have they graduated high school yet or whatever.

[826] and calculate that Lori's been dead for 19 days, which places her exactly the day that she disappeared.

[827] So then, police are then, like, it's been 20 days.

[828] You know what we should have done, they say?

[829] Let's go and see if any of the mall stores had a camera facing the parking lot.

[830] You know what we should do now, they said?

[831] Yeah.

[832] 20 days later?

[833] Yeah.

[834] Okay.

[835] Yeah.

[836] Yeah.

[837] So.

[838] It's what they do automatically now, though.

[839] Yeah.

[840] Yes.

[841] You'd hope.

[842] Okay.

[843] So they discover an ATM, an ATM, not an ATM machine, near the entrance of the mall.

[844] Well, because it is an ATM.

[845] I wasn't, yeah.

[846] Yeah, ATM machine.

[847] That's right.

[848] ATM.

[849] Atm, yeah.

[850] So they find out an ATM, there's a camera basically pointing at the parking lot.

[851] It's been taped over, so it's super fuzzy, but they can still, I don't know, make it be seen.

[852] I'm not a videographer.

[853] Oh, well, if you're not a videographer, you shouldn't be telling this story.

[854] So they find the camera aimed in the direction of Lori's car on the day of her disappearance.

[855] The images just show a man making a bank transaction, and in the background, and out of focus, they see Lori's car pull in, and a person, and then a car pulls in in front of her car, and an identity of a person is standing by, but they can't fucking see anything because it's super blurry.

[856] So state prosecutors ask the Pennsylvania State Police Lab and the FBI for help.

[857] awesome um so the FBI asks NASA for help because they couldn't improve anything yes this is a first we've never gone to NASA for help in this the history of this show like a NASA yeah yes and they're like um we mostly do moon stuff so no sorry but it makes total sense because they have this sophisticated digital photo enhancement technology that improve you know That improves space pictures.

[858] So they're like, you know.

[859] You just went from expert to non -expert in one sentence.

[860] That's me. Me too.

[861] Yeah.

[862] They refer her case to a research scientist in the ballistic missile field organization, whatever.

[863] And so he uses a technique similar to the one that was used to determine the cause of the Challenger explosion in 1986.

[864] and he digitally enhances the black and white surveillance footage.

[865] Awesome.

[866] Now we can see it.

[867] I forgot to get a photo of it for you.

[868] But it's good.

[869] It's like a spaceship and a guy kind of in slow motion coming down.

[870] He puts a flag.

[871] He jumps around a little bit.

[872] And there's an ATM machine in the background.

[873] That's how you know it's fake.

[874] Yeah.

[875] So they're able to identify the kind of conversation.

[876] that pulled up next to Lori's car as a Chevrolete celebrity and they can even tell it was made between 1982 and 1985.

[877] Because that's the only time Chevy celebrities were made.

[878] Is it?

[879] I don't know.

[880] Have you seen one lately?

[881] There's one.

[882] Oh, it's gorgeous.

[883] Hold on a second.

[884] That's not the one, but this is one.

[885] This is one.

[886] Remember those handles?

[887] Look at how they parked it in front of a mansion.

[888] Right.

[889] As if.

[890] Uh -huh.

[891] Tell me you wouldn't drive that.

[892] That is the poor man's Volvo right there.

[893] That's true.

[894] Look at it.

[895] It's a gourd.

[896] It's a beauty.

[897] So they're like, oh, let's look into Robert, Lori's ex.

[898] Does he own a Chevy celebrity?

[899] No, but his parents do.

[900] Made in 1984.

[901] Right in there.

[902] That's it.

[903] Robert's parents tell police that Robb borrowed their car on the day of Lori's disappearance, and they sold the car a week after he returned.

[904] it.

[905] Interesting.

[906] And neighbors were like, we saw him fucking frantically cleaning that car.

[907] But so just the parents had planned on selling the car to begin with.

[908] So they're not accomplices.

[909] Right.

[910] So it seems like he kind of knew that.

[911] And so took the car at the right moment because he knew they knew it was going to be gone.

[912] But then he's dumb enough to frantically clean the car out like in the drive way.

[913] Rob.

[914] Murders.

[915] Come on.

[916] Jesus.

[917] It's so like the number one.

[918] Every fucking murder has a clean car.

[919] It's like the number one thing.

[920] Stop it.

[921] I mean, do it.

[922] What Whatever.

[923] Don't start it, maybe.

[924] Don't kill people.

[925] Don't kill people.

[926] Okay, but guess who had bought the car?

[927] The celebrity?

[928] Was it a celebrity?

[929] Oh, yes.

[930] A retired state police officer.

[931] Hell yes.

[932] So they're like, can we borrow that?

[933] And he's like, abs of fucking loot.

[934] That's right.

[935] I don't know what I was thinking in the first place.

[936] You can have it.

[937] How sad is this?

[938] He bought it for his step.

[939] stepdaughter, who wasn't old enough to drive yet.

[940] So it was just sitting in the garage untouched, waiting for her to be 16.

[941] Maybe she, like, flunked her fucking driving test.

[942] You'll have the celebrity when you pass here?

[943] I saw those wine coolers under your bed.

[944] No celebrity for you.

[945] But stepdad.

[946] You're not my real father.

[947] You're not my real father.

[948] You're just a state policeman that's really good in handling evidence.

[949] Hopefully.

[950] Please, God.

[951] Okay, so they get the vehicle.

[952] They tested for prints and trace evidence.

[953] don't find anything.

[954] There's no blood, of course, because it's been cleaned.

[955] But it hasn't been cleaned well enough because in the trunk, forensics people discover a couple little strands of hair.

[956] And they put it on their microscope.

[957] Guess what?

[958] It's fucking cat hair.

[959] Oh.

[960] Yeah.

[961] Lint roller.

[962] Get out of here, lit roller.

[963] Suddenly, pet hair isn't so bad, is it?

[964] No, it's not.

[965] And they also, let's see, they also, yeah, find her, a couple strands of her hair too, but they're able to know that Robert doesn't have a cat.

[966] He never lived with them when they had the cat.

[967] He has no access to a cat, it said, which is like, that's tragic.

[968] Your Honor, he simply had no cat access, not at home, not at work.

[969] He wasn't allowed at the pet store.

[970] Truly my worst nightmare.

[971] If you were denied cat access.

[972] How many times have I looked at them in the cat cam today at home?

[973] Six.

[974] Six.

[975] Probably.

[976] My dad's watching the cats, and when I first turned the cat cam on to stare at them, it makes a noise, and I see him go, hello, like, put his head in there.

[977] Hello?

[978] Artie!

[979] Marty!

[980] It's a cat.

[981] dad cam, actually.

[982] Just catch him eating a handful of peanuts or whatever dads do when they're alone.

[983] You can put cat treats in the machine.

[984] What if I just put peanuts in it?

[985] And to get Marty to come in, just fucking...

[986] He's jumping up and intercepting him.

[987] Fighting Elvis off.

[988] What?

[989] Oh, that's not the kind I like.

[990] That's your kind.

[991] That's not my kind.

[992] Just a mix of cat treats and peanuts.

[993] George's Trail Mix.

[994] That's right.

[995] Promo code murder.

[996] Provo code murder.

[997] So, bu, blah, blah, but, but, but, but, okay, so they arrest Rob for the murder of his estranged wife, Lori, and based on the cat hair evidence, and during their arrest, when they tell him, Rob said, you've got to be kidding me. Fucking asshole.

[998] Okay.

[999] So, prosecutors believe the surveillance photos support their theory that Lori was abducted in the parking lot.

[1000] So they reconstruct the crime scene.

[1001] by the photos that NASA, you know, did cool shit too?

[1002] Developed.

[1003] And they see that the Chevy he was driving was in the mall parking lot, and they see her kind of, it seems like she got out of the car to go to work.

[1004] He who had the kid that day probably was like, oh my God, you have to come with me. There's something wrong with Matthew, so she jumps in the car because she thinks something's wrong with her kid.

[1005] And then they don't really know what happens after that until she's.

[1006] until she's missing.

[1007] So prosecutors allege that he had two possible motives.

[1008] First was that he had taken out an insurance policy on Lori and his son and listed himself as a beneficiary.

[1009] And he took that out after they separated, which I feel like you need to prove you're still married if you're going to take out a fucking life insurance policy.

[1010] I know there's a lot going on in this country right now, but if we could at some point when the shit stops rolling, if we could take a look at these insurance.

[1011] Yeah, these.

[1012] I mean, arrest anyone who has an insurance policy for their spouse above, what, 50 grand?

[1013] I'd like, you know, 10.

[1014] Ten.

[1015] Yeah.

[1016] My guy fucking shot Grady Stiles for $1 ,500.

[1017] That's right.

[1018] I mean, fuck.

[1019] That's true.

[1020] That's true.

[1021] Fuck.

[1022] I called him my guy.

[1023] That's embarrassing.

[1024] You're a best friend.

[1025] And, um, the past.

[1026] payout.

[1027] Oh, hey, the payout for criminal homicide was $10 ,000.

[1028] You're psychic.

[1029] I mean, oh.

[1030] Oh.

[1031] Yes.

[1032] Remember, you just said that?

[1033] Yes, I fucking did.

[1034] Irish, psychic.

[1035] Fear me. And of course, the other was that they were engaged in a custody dispute over their kid.

[1036] And Lori's boyfriend at the time, the student Malcolm, says that Robert was stalking her.

[1037] and Lori's mother had discovered two shotguns under her bed two weeks before she disappeared.

[1038] And when she asked her daughter about them, she's like, I'm fucking scared of my ex.

[1039] Oh, man. So one of Lori's friends testified that Lori carried Mace in her purse in case Rob attacked her, and the supervisors at work would say he'd come stand outside the window and she'd fucking run in the back.

[1040] And they would watch her leave work and walk to her car to make sure nothing happened to her, Nobody fucking thought, like, on your way to work in broad daylight in a busy fucking mall parking lot.

[1041] Like, it just doesn't cross your mind.

[1042] So a background check reveals that Rob had a troubled past.

[1043] Shortly after marrying Lori, he's convicted of a DUI and serves a stint in prison.

[1044] And while he's there, okay, while he's in prison, everyone, he orders a book about how to commit murder and get away with it in prison.

[1045] So they have, like, it's almost like this classic book series.

[1046] You can just order.

[1047] Oh, this Encyclopedia Brown, that's fun.

[1048] Oh, and then also a murder book.

[1049] Yeah, how did, there was no internet.

[1050] There was no fucking book selling place.

[1051] I just feel like the warden should tighten that game up a little bit, don't you?

[1052] They did.

[1053] They were like, they like got it, and they were like, no. But they knew he had ordered it.

[1054] They wouldn't give it to him, though.

[1055] Oh, good.

[1056] They just put it in the prison library.

[1057] Yeah.

[1058] When you have library access, you can read your book.

[1059] You have to earn the privilege of learning.

[1060] how to murder correctly.

[1061] So in March 1992, Rob Ocker is found guilty of first degree murder and sentence and kidnapping and a sentence to death.

[1062] Shit.

[1063] But on appeal, the death sentence is vacated, but he will spend the rest of his life in prison.

[1064] Yay.

[1065] Yeah.

[1066] So Lori's case and NASA's involvement is the first time digital video enhancement is used on a crime scene photo, making it a forensic breakthrough.

[1067] And Lori's murder signified a scientific awakening.

[1068] I'm reading from forensic files, obviously.

[1069] Yes, do it.

[1070] I support it.

[1071] In the forensic world and set a trend of utilizing this same technology, which is like pretty standard now.

[1072] And countless crimes have been solved because of the technology used to identify and prosecute the killer of Lori Ann.

[1073] And that is the story of the murder of Lori Ann Ocker.

[1074] Nice.

[1075] Wow.

[1076] And there you go.

[1077] Heroic Cat.

[1078] Just the kind of stories we need these days.

[1079] Totally.

[1080] And what about you?

[1081] What do you have for us?

[1082] Mine, it's a classic.

[1083] It's from, it's from Salt Lake City or Salt Lake City Show February 16th, 2018.

[1084] It's the Donner Party.

[1085] I mean, you got to.

[1086] This is my Christmas gift to you, everybody.

[1087] A horrible story about people wandering in snow.

[1088] Yeah, you did a great job of this one.

[1089] I remember that for sure.

[1090] And it's a perfect story for when everyone's snuggling in this week that is Christmas.

[1091] Yeah.

[1092] Just be snuggle in and don't eat.

[1093] anything for days and days and grateful for what you have and thankful for your...

[1094] That's right.

[1095] I really appreciate it.

[1096] You're not a pioneer.

[1097] You're not trying to cross the Great Salt Lake.

[1098] You're not getting bad directions from anybody.

[1099] No. I'll let myself tell the story.

[1100] I'm first.

[1101] Okay.

[1102] Yeah.

[1103] Great.

[1104] And so...

[1105] Great.

[1106] With the help of Barbara Gray and Emily Claussen, I present to you the Donner Party.

[1107] What?

[1108] That is like...

[1109] Uh -uh.

[1110] Next level.

[1111] I'm impressed.

[1112] Okay.

[1113] Go ahead.

[1114] You deserve it.

[1115] I'm impressed.

[1116] I just like, that didn't cross my mind.

[1117] Can I tell you I have a bad memory of...

[1118] I wasn't in the Donner Party, but...

[1119] This whole thing brings up a lot of negative stuff for me. It's really hard for me. When I...

[1120] I did drunk history the first season.

[1121] Yes, you did, everybody.

[1122] Thank you.

[1123] The best one.

[1124] My sister Laura thinks it's the best one.

[1125] It's really good.

[1126] It's the episode of, what are they called?

[1127] Lewis and Clark.

[1128] But what happened was that same night, they were like, we're going to get two and one night.

[1129] So the second one was the Donner Party.

[1130] And so 12 hours after we had started drinking and had done Lewis and Clark, then we started on the Donner Party.

[1131] I don't remember a fucking thing.

[1132] It was unerable.

[1133] For drunk history?

[1134] I was hung up.

[1135] over for the rest of my life.

[1136] I broke up with my fiance based off of it.

[1137] I was just like no. Shut it all down.

[1138] Bye.

[1139] Goodbye.

[1140] Maybe you can bring it back.

[1141] Okay.

[1142] Tell me when things start to come to you.

[1143] Please stop me. Flashes of memory, smells, a single cigarette.

[1144] I want to hear about every word of it.

[1145] Got it.

[1146] Okay.

[1147] Did I just burp right into the microphone?

[1148] I didn't even notice, but now that you mentioned it, I think you did.

[1149] Who's here for the first time tonight?

[1150] Who's never listened to this podcast before?

[1151] The poor people that come for the first time because their significant other is a controlling freak.

[1152] Oh, I'm so sorry.

[1153] We know you want to be home watching professional wrestling.

[1154] We know.

[1155] Okay, all right.

[1156] There's a lot of details in this that I left out, and I'm not sure we're going to have about a 10 -year range of accuracy issues.

[1157] Now I just doubt every fucking thing that comes out of my mouth.

[1158] Why not?

[1159] And that's our brand.

[1160] Excuse me. So it starts out, obviously, with George Donner, his family, his wife, Tamsin.

[1161] What a great name.

[1162] It's his third wife.

[1163] Whoa.

[1164] Right?

[1165] 1846.

[1166] They're doing it.

[1167] The flu.

[1168] It took a month.

[1169] It's the flu.

[1170] Boom.

[1171] 1846.

[1172] That just, I don't know why the flu made me laugh that hard.

[1173] I loved it.

[1174] I think we have an oxygen tank.

[1175] Do you could.

[1176] Can we have it on stage?

[1177] We said some weird things last night.

[1178] What was the thing you said about the police line or something?

[1179] I don't know.

[1180] Someone might know it.

[1181] Yes.

[1182] What was it?

[1183] Hosky restages.

[1184] It was Hosky restages.

[1185] It was husky restages.

[1186] Instead of to rescue the hostages.

[1187] It was like that moment right when you're like, oh, shit, I'm too stone to be in this record store.

[1188] That's what it was like.

[1189] But up here holding a microphone with you all.

[1190] Much like tonight.

[1191] Okay, go on.

[1192] Just like now.

[1193] So this all starts April 14th, 1846.

[1194] Okay.

[1195] Quite some time ago.

[1196] George Donner and a man named James F. Reed, they leave Springfield, Illinois.

[1197] Because it's all that manifest destiny shit.

[1198] They're like, let's go to California.

[1199] We've already killed it.

[1200] the farming game out here in Illinois, enough.

[1201] Let's go 2 ,500 miles west in wooden machines.

[1202] Word for word.

[1203] So far, the drunk history I did.

[1204] It's coming back?

[1205] Word for word.

[1206] This is exactly how you said it.

[1207] Okay.

[1208] So they, they, forget it.

[1209] basically they the reeds and the donors have their own little wagon train right then they meet up with a bigger wagon train it takes them a month it's may 19th um they meet up in independence they meet up with uh colonel william h russell's wagon train when they meet up and they all combine it's two miles long oh my gosh yeah and uh and it's a lovely spring day so then a month later and I'm not, there's so many deaths I mean like these are people that just are out in the middle of nowhere with no doctors or provisions like one slight bruising and they're fucking dead and buried next to the trail so I can't mention every single person and especially child who died I'm skimming.

[1210] The Wikipedia page on this story is deep and wide and I suggest you go there It also contains the diary entries of a man, I believe, is something Brain, his last name is Brain.

[1211] And he keeps a diary the whole fucking time the Donner Party is stuck at the old pass.

[1212] And every day, while everyone around him, oh, spoiler alert is starving to death, he gets up in the first thing he writes in his diary is beautiful day to day.

[1213] And like after the 11th one of those, I was like, fuck this guy.

[1214] fuck these details.

[1215] I'm not fucking naming every name.

[1216] All right.

[1217] So.

[1218] This podcast is not called my...

[1219] Oh, this podcast is called my favorite murder.

[1220] My favorite murder.

[1221] That's right.

[1222] Thank you.

[1223] That's Karen Kilgara.

[1224] That's George Hard Start.

[1225] This podcast is not called my favorite Dahmer.

[1226] That's right.

[1227] So...

[1228] Jeffrey Dahmer?

[1229] Yes.

[1230] Look.

[1231] Listen.

[1232] So, just a quick reset.

[1233] So then, also, they're losing leaders.

[1234] Some person dies, and then they're like, you're no longer allowed to be in charge of here.

[1235] So Colonel William Russell resigns, and then a guy named Boggs becomes the leader, so then they start calling it the Boggs Company, which is kind of rad, you have to admit.

[1236] A really good title.

[1237] They all head to Fort Bridger, which is in the southwest edge of Wyoming.

[1238] It takes them over a month.

[1239] Oh, shit.

[1240] Hold on.

[1241] We've got some pictures.

[1242] All right.

[1243] These are the Donners.

[1244] They look like a partiers.

[1245] That's George.

[1246] What'd you say?

[1247] They look like partiers.

[1248] The Donner partyers.

[1249] The one standing has her head cocked ever so slightly.

[1250] Like, yeah, I'm drunk.

[1251] So what?

[1252] It's the fucking 1850s.

[1253] It sucks.

[1254] And then here's the reeds.

[1255] Oh, man. Doesn't he look like Gabriel Byrne?

[1256] Like crazy?

[1257] I don't know who that is.

[1258] The Irish actor, he's your favorite.

[1259] Okay.

[1260] Oh, yeah.

[1261] She is.

[1262] And she looks like the lady from Game of Thrones who nursed her child for too long.

[1263] Doesn't it?

[1264] The most haunting image I've ever seen in my life.

[1265] So great.

[1266] So now you know who the players are.

[1267] Oh, there you go.

[1268] Okay.

[1269] Okay, so, ooh, you guys are going to recognize that when I start talking about it right now.

[1270] Okay, so it takes them a month to get there.

[1271] and on the way, this guy, his name is Lanford Hastings, and he starts spreading a rumor that there's a shortcut across the Salt Lake Desert.

[1272] So normally they go this, I think this, actually Stephen made a map.

[1273] Oh, Stephen.

[1274] So check this shit out.

[1275] That's amazing.

[1276] Sorry.

[1277] Stephen pulled a map off the internet that's someone else who read books and studied and cared.

[1278] Okay.

[1279] So they're starting over there far to the right at Fort Bridger.

[1280] And they're supposed to go up, like up over there to kind of avoid all the bad parts of the desert.

[1281] Okay.

[1282] But Landford Hastings is like, pst, you guys.

[1283] Oh, man, they named it after him too because they were like, fuck you.

[1284] Everyone's going to remember because we're naming it after you.

[1285] That's right.

[1286] No, he told everybody there was a shortcut.

[1287] And so George Donner and Reed were like, yes, our wives are bitching at us.

[1288] This sucks.

[1289] We need to cut at least 40 days.

[1290] off this trip and everybody else in the bogs company um it sounds like they're all wearing vests with pocket watches but um everybody else in the bogs company is like absolutely not what are you fucking thinking yeah um because you know we know not only is it going around the worst part but it's the proof it's a trail people have gone down it before right come come to find out lanford hastings had never gone down his shortcut before so it was all just an act of love he just he just believed in the shortcut and he was trying to take some people down with them so so they end up oh yeah i just wrote so they just want to get to california so they can finally get tan that's a waste of time karen just write facts down and maybe it'll be a better podcast get the date right first okay also just In life, keep an eye out for the Lanford Hastings because they're everywhere, and they'll always be like, oh, yeah, yeah, we're all going to go out.

[1291] We're going to go to this restaurant.

[1292] It's going to be great.

[1293] And then you show up there, and you have a party of 12, and there's only tables for eight or whatever, and it fucks up the whole night.

[1294] There's always a person that's like, I got this, and they don't fucking got it.

[1295] You have to keep your eyes peeled for these people, and you have to overpower them.

[1296] Because if they can't plan for the group, if they can't think for the group, if it's all, all centered on them.

[1297] Mm -hmm.

[1298] No way.

[1299] Get them out.

[1300] Got it.

[1301] That is important to me. But what a...

[1302] Okay.

[1303] Never mind.

[1304] No, you can...

[1305] Devils advocate away.

[1306] Why did...

[1307] I mean, don't take a shortcut, you know?

[1308] So you're on my side.

[1309] Yes.

[1310] Yeah.

[1311] I mean, yes.

[1312] Yeah.

[1313] The problem is, and this is the thing that's the overarching thing, as you know, as your mind deep down knows is that they're fighting against time.

[1314] Yeah.

[1315] Because it's what late spring going to summer or maybe even summer.

[1316] So they have to get past this past before winter actually hits.

[1317] Right.

[1318] Right.

[1319] Yeah.

[1320] Yeah, but I don't want to don't honor shame, but.

[1321] Don't go.

[1322] Don't follow this person you just met who probably smells real bad.

[1323] It's, they all smell bad.

[1324] I mean.

[1325] And following was a whole big thing.

[1326] That was the thing.

[1327] I was like, follow me to California.

[1328] Yeah, okay.

[1329] Follow me for 2 ,000 miles.

[1330] Okay.

[1331] Get good at following me. Okay.

[1332] So, uh, hold on.

[1333] Okay.

[1334] So then they decide, so Reed decides to go and Donner decides to go, and they elect Donner to be the leader of the group, therefore retitling the smaller group that took the shortcut, the Donner party.

[1335] It's a teradactyl?

[1336] Okay.

[1337] I was trying to set the seat.

[1338] Okay, so on July 31st, 1846, get that oxygen out here quickly.

[1339] The donor party is comprised of 74 people, 20 wagons.

[1340] They leave Fort Bridger.

[1341] It doesn't go well.

[1342] So it starts off, okay, they're in Hastings Trail.

[1343] He's like a couple days ahead of them.

[1344] They're just following where he went.

[1345] Everything is good.

[1346] They're making good time.

[1347] days in, they find a note left by Hastings, saying that the road ahead is impassable.

[1348] Uh -huh.

[1349] Oh, fuck.

[1350] Oh, sorry, we can only seat four people in this booth.

[1351] I guess everyone else is just stand in the middle of the fucking restaurant with their ass on other people's fucking tables.

[1352] Or it's that thing where they're like, well, we'll just we'll break up and we'll sit and then you're left with the people you don't really know and didn't work here.

[1353] Yeah.

[1354] You're not central.

[1355] Yeah, you were like, I came here for that fucker.

[1356] And now I'm over here and I'll just sit with your cousin.

[1357] And his cousin.

[1358] Get out of here.

[1359] And then it's high tea.

[1360] You have to eat tiny sandwiches.

[1361] Nobody.

[1362] To be quiet the whole time.

[1363] So James Reed and two other guys run ahead.

[1364] They fucking meet Hastings.

[1365] This is the best.

[1366] Hastings walks them back.

[1367] They go walk up to the top of a mountain.

[1368] And then Hastings goes, okay, so we were going to go that way.

[1369] Go this way.

[1370] From the top of a mountain.

[1371] He points to the new trail.

[1372] I'm tired just hearing about it.

[1373] I mean.

[1374] hours and hours in a bumpy, like basically on a picnic bench that's bumping up and down.

[1375] Yeah, no. Okay.

[1376] Thank you.

[1377] On August 30th, they reach Redlam Spring.

[1378] It's the last source of water before they cross the desert.

[1379] So they collect up, obviously, tons of water, a ton of grass for the animals.

[1380] 87 people, 23 wagons, set out across the desert on the shortcut.

[1381] On the third day, they run out of water.

[1382] Oh, that was fast.

[1383] I thought you collected up all the spring water.

[1384] Okay.

[1385] So it takes them five days altogether to get to the foot of Pilot Peak.

[1386] They have lost 38 head of cattle on the way.

[1387] Most of them are reeds.

[1388] Four wagons broke and had to just be abandoned.

[1389] So people just had to leave their big old -fashioned trunk of shit in the middle of the desert.

[1390] Should be imagine if you found it.

[1391] Oh, so jealous.

[1392] It's old, like a handmade cloth doll.

[1393] Block blocks that the dad carved for the child.

[1394] But what if it has...

[1395] I was going to say what if it's got the flu on it.

[1396] The old flu bug that's been eradicated.

[1397] You're like porn.

[1398] Yeah.

[1399] It was like, 18 -something porn.

[1400] Flu.

[1401] Face full of flu.

[1402] It's an episode of house.

[1403] Then they have to come back and inspect the trunk.

[1404] All the doctors, even though no doctor would leave the hospital for you ever.

[1405] It's personal.

[1406] It was supposed to take them a week on this shortcut.

[1407] It took them a month.

[1408] Perfect.

[1409] So just how you want.

[1410] They arrive, they take stock.

[1411] They realize they are not, they don't have enough provisions for the rest of the trip.

[1412] So they send two young men, Charles Stanton and William McCutcheon, ahead to Sutter's Fort, to request more.

[1413] Sutter's Fort is like north of Sacramento, I believe.

[1414] It's definitely in California.

[1415] Isn't it?

[1416] Pretty sure.

[1417] Make it up.

[1418] There it is.

[1419] Yes.

[1420] I was fucking right.

[1421] Fuck all of you.

[1422] Whoops.

[1423] Okay.

[1424] Sorry.

[1425] I didn't mean the last part.

[1426] How is this our job?

[1427] I know.

[1428] It's so rude.

[1429] I apologize.

[1430] Oh, no. Okay.

[1431] so after fuck you what was I going to say after fuck you okay they get there it's I'm gonna say it so I'm gonna say it so it's the beginning of October the Donner Party no time's running out they have to fucking hustle up the Humboldt river somewhere around October 11th Paiute Indians kill 21 of the Donner Party's oxen which is kind of a great way to take people out they just fucking killed a bunch of them 18 are stolen a couple more are wounded so over Over a hundred of the oxen are now gone.

[1432] Can we leave the animals out of this shit, please?

[1433] Well, and also the food.

[1434] And the way wagons get pulled sometimes.

[1435] Poor animals are like, this fucking sucks.

[1436] We wanted to stay in Chicago or Illinois or the fucker are from.

[1437] We don't care about the sunshine in California.

[1438] We're worshipped in Chicago.

[1439] They love us there.

[1440] California has a bunch of fucking assholes.

[1441] For one second, I thought you had said support oxen.

[1442] And I was like, that's the best idea in the world.

[1443] Just fucking go into a sushi restaurant with a fucking bison.

[1444] Like, it's, I'm so stressed out.

[1445] I'm like an emotional support oxen.

[1446] My emotional support oxen.

[1447] You can't do shit about it.

[1448] I have a little blue vest for it.

[1449] And that is now the law in America.

[1450] He's just fucking ripping shit up.

[1451] I don't know, what do oxen act like?

[1452] At Starbucks, I'm just eating at all the sandwiches.

[1453] Don't stop it, Rusty.

[1454] I told you no. Okay.

[1455] Adop, don't shop for oxen.

[1456] please don't buy bison anymore you guys there's so many stray bison then fucking so when charles comes back he's gonna keep going he he has seven mules loaded with provisions and two native american guides name uh louis or louise maybe and salvador and he also brings the good news that they there's uh still a month the sierras should still be open for a month they can still cross the path Great.

[1457] Let's go for it.

[1458] They're like, it's my birthday month.

[1459] Let's fucking do this.

[1460] This will be great.

[1461] I am going to live it up this month.

[1462] I'm going to drink so many ladles of water.

[1463] Don't even.

[1464] So the problem is, on October 28th, a huge snowstorm strikes.

[1465] And they're trapped at Truckee Lake, which is bad fucking news.

[1466] Because I went to college in my short stint at college.

[1467] There were two girls from Truckee in my dorm and they were fucking scary.

[1468] But, like, I was legit.

[1469] scared of them.

[1470] Oh my God.

[1471] It's a serious area.

[1472] So they're trapped a Truckee Lake, snow starts piling up, they have to build shelters and cabins real fast.

[1473] They can't move on.

[1474] And this is where it becomes this horrifying groundhogs day of people trying to leave a place and climb a mountain and the snow coming and then them coming back.

[1475] It just keeps happening over and over.

[1476] But it's not fun.

[1477] Like with Bill memory.

[1478] There's no wonderful Andy McDowell essence in it.

[1479] That hair.

[1480] Okay, so they try a couple times, weather beats them back, their food supply is almost gone, they know they have to go get help.

[1481] So finally on December 16th, they've been there for quite some time.

[1482] They decide the 15 strongest people that aren't slowly wasting away, people were eating shoelaces and they're giving the children on animal bones to like.

[1483] Oh man. Yeah, bad news.

[1484] Um, so they make their own snow shoes and they're like, we can do it.

[1485] And they go out to try to get to fucking Sutter's Fort.

[1486] So, um, to get help.

[1487] So they thought they were going to reach by their, you know, maps or whatever, they thought they'd reach California in six days.

[1488] Oh, also they named themselves, because I guess they had to just name their parties always.

[1489] So just to keep it upbeat and positive, they named their party the forlorn hope.

[1490] Oh, man. People, they're like walking up and then people are like shutting their curtains like, oh, it's such a bummer.

[1491] I do not want to hang out with them.

[1492] Oh.

[1493] So they think it's going to take six days.

[1494] And it does, right?

[1495] No. Cut to two weeks later.

[1496] Provisions have run out.

[1497] Several members of the party have gone snowblind.

[1498] They're all exhausted.

[1499] And then, on Christmas Day, a blizzard hits.

[1500] And they're out in the middle of nowhere.

[1501] They have no shelter.

[1502] Come on, Santa.

[1503] Get it together.

[1504] Not cool.

[1505] I wish for more shoelaces to chew on.

[1506] They're actually, it's so bad, they're caught out in the snow.

[1507] They make a ring, they take their blankets, and they put their blankets over themselves, like, fucking children in a fort while the snow falls on them.

[1508] God, a bummer.

[1509] It is bad news.

[1510] Also, I hate being cold so fucking much.

[1511] It makes me so mad.

[1512] Anyhow.

[1513] We're having fun here in the city.

[1514] We love it so much.

[1515] I like being inside when it's cold outside.

[1516] It makes me feel superior.

[1517] But not in a blizzard outside.

[1518] No, no, no, no. Uh -uh.

[1519] You don't want to touch it.

[1520] So, they decide, in the night, eight people die from that.

[1521] so they decide Oh no sorry Before eight people die This group The forlorn lovers They decide They're going to kill somebody for food Oh So they have everybody draw No Draw lots And the one guy that gets the short lot Nobody can bring themselves to kill them So then they're like Forget it And then Another snowstorm hits That's when they eight people die And then they're like, well, dinner's served.

[1522] Exactly right.

[1523] It's in there, girl.

[1524] I stole it from you, though.

[1525] You had a minute.

[1526] I'm sorry.

[1527] No. Dinner is served.

[1528] Then I'm going to own it.

[1529] Okay.

[1530] It's hot.

[1531] Feel my hand.

[1532] No, it's.

[1533] Oh, shit.

[1534] It's crazy.

[1535] Okay.

[1536] You look at your hand.

[1537] I don't have oily skin.

[1538] Okay.

[1539] So, yes, they turned to cannibalism.

[1540] From the people who died in the night, they remove the meat from the bodies.

[1541] They eat it all while weeping and turned away from each other.

[1542] As you do with cannibalism.

[1543] It's not like, oh my God, did you see that fucking tree?

[1544] The leaves out here are nuts.

[1545] We have to come back.

[1546] Next of all, these leaves.

[1547] Oh, what a bummer.

[1548] I've seen the movie alive.

[1549] I know how it's like.

[1550] That movie, when it starts, I'm like, I can't do this.

[1551] And then an hour and a half later, I'm like, we've done it.

[1552] Why did I get to watch that when I was 11?

[1553] That was a fucking mistake.

[1554] Because you need to know that a plane could always crash.

[1555] Well, I'm never afraid.

[1556] I don't need all of his annex on planes now.

[1557] That's why.

[1558] That in La Bamba.

[1559] I was like, fuck, no, I'm not flying.

[1560] When I was a little kid.

[1561] That was a surprise ending in La Bamba.

[1562] I didn't see it coming as a kid.

[1563] He was so beautiful and he had so much to give.

[1564] Okay, listen, look, they cut up the bodies and package it, obviously, because they're, they still need to keep eating, but they label the packaging so no one eats their relative.

[1565] Sorry, it's just a fact.

[1566] I mean, great.

[1567] I'm glad.

[1568] That's awesome, but still.

[1569] Don't.

[1570] Come on.

[1571] Let's not.

[1572] So, are you okay?

[1573] Yes, I'm going to make this.

[1574] If they can make it, I can.

[1575] No, wait, they didn't make it.

[1576] They had cannibalized seven of their eight dead They thought the trip would take six days It took them 33 They finally arrive at Johnson's Ranch On January 17th, 1847 Hey, fucking men It's five women and two men Okay, so the news of what's going on with the...

[1577] Thank you She's glad the men died and not the women, I think.

[1578] I'm not fucking kidding.

[1579] kidding.

[1580] It's like, they're all bummed.

[1581] They're all, can we make you guys some dinner?

[1582] We're here.

[1583] Guess we'll go cook now.

[1584] We're starving to death.

[1585] And that's the day feminism started.

[1586] Don't cheer for that.

[1587] Okay.

[1588] So, the word of how insane it's gotten gets back to Sutter's Fort and a rescue party gets sent out.

[1589] It takes the soldiers, 18 days.

[1590] This is also the frustrating part of doing this research.

[1591] Everything takes 18 days and it's fucking infuriating.

[1592] So you think like, oh, the rescue party and it's like it's a month away.

[1593] So one of the rescuers recalls when they arrived at the Truckee Lake encampment.

[1594] He said at sunset we crossed Truckee Lake on the ice.

[1595] We came to the spot where we had been told we should find the emigrants with an E. We looked all around but no living thing except ourselves was in sight.

[1596] We raised a loud hello.

[1597] And then we saw a woman emerge from a hole in the snow.

[1598] She had long, black, wet hair hanging down in front of her face and a wet nightgown on.

[1599] She was whispering something.

[1600] As we approached her, several others made their appearance in the manner coming out of the snow.

[1601] They were gaunt with famine, and I never can forget the horrible ghastly sight they presented.

[1602] The first woman spoke in a, hollow voice very much agitated and said, are you men from California or do you come from heaven?

[1603] Oh, honey.

[1604] I'm sorry about that acting.

[1605] That ruined it.

[1606] Isn't that horrifying?

[1607] And then they started scratching at his skin.

[1608] Sorry.

[1609] So they're all on the verge of death.

[1610] They had started eating so they had covered their roofs in animal hides.

[1611] They had started eating the animal hides off the roofs because there was no food.

[1612] They were fighting over the animal hides.

[1613] Like cotton fucking candy.

[1614] Oh, that's creepy.

[1615] It's not good.

[1616] Because you're just chewing and chewing.

[1617] Babies were being fed, ice melt mixed with a pinch of flour.

[1618] That's all they got to have.

[1619] I told you about the children and the shoelaces and the animal bones.

[1620] 11 people were dead from starvation, and there was evidence at cannibalism at this camp, too.

[1621] They started calling it starvation camp.

[1622] They got even lower than the original depressing name.

[1623] Yes, exactly.

[1624] They're like, oh, the forlorn bum out?

[1625] Hold on.

[1626] We can beat this.

[1627] In mid -February, John Sutter, who was the proprietor of Sutter's Fort and Captain Edward Kern, the temporary commander, offered $3 a day to anyone who would join a rescue party and go help.

[1628] So between February 21st and April 17th of 1847, they sent four relief parties to the Donner Party encampment, starved camp.

[1629] Now, it seems like good news.

[1630] like this, when I got to this part in my story, I was like, I'm pretty much done, and I went and had high tea downstairs.

[1631] But it turned out when I got back, this was like when even more of the pain started.

[1632] Because, of course, there was only a certain amount of people that were in these rescue parties, but there were, I think, over 80, almost 90 people altogether, less the, a couple that had died so far.

[1633] And so it was, again, this thing of they're going, they're rescuing, are you strong enough to even leave.

[1634] So they would leave.

[1635] They would start up the mountain.

[1636] The snow would hit and they would fucking have to come back to starvation camp.

[1637] Yeah.

[1638] So the first relief party to get across the pass had 23 members that were strong enough to get out.

[1639] Two died during the journey.

[1640] Two went back.

[1641] It couldn't take it.

[1642] The second relief party arrived on March 1st.

[1643] They found significant evidence of cannibalism.

[1644] I think that was from up there too.

[1645] Oh no. The Lord's just slightly different.

[1646] It's probably all over the place.

[1647] It's a sprinkling of cannibalism all around the mountain.

[1648] Here and there.

[1649] The second relief left with 17 survivors on March 3rd.

[1650] A blizzard strikes on March 5th.

[1651] It lasts two days.

[1652] Two people die.

[1653] Most of them return to starvation camp.

[1654] Oh, what a bummer to be like, you know, it's a better option.

[1655] Let's go back to his fucking...

[1656] Let's go to Chicago.

[1657] In one of those hotels.

[1658] Oh, sorry, I've been saying starvation camp.

[1659] It's starved camp.

[1660] Is that why you guys are so mad?

[1661] Okay.

[1662] They try again in mid -March and they're forced to return yet again.

[1663] When another blizzard hits, by the time the third relief party arrives on March 12th, more survivors had died and been cannibalized.

[1664] And when they left two days later, they only take four survivors with them.

[1665] Five people stay behind, including George Donner and his wife, Tasman, and a man named Lewis.

[1666] Kesseberg.

[1667] Near the end of that month, George Donner dies, his wife dies, I think, a day or two later.

[1668] Shit.

[1669] And then when the fourth relief arrives on April 17th, Lewis Keseberg is the only person alive, and he is surrounded by half -eaten corpses.

[1670] Is that true?

[1671] I like to think so.

[1672] So horrifying.

[1673] So he was the last member of the Donner Party to reach Sutter's Fort, He got there on April 29th, 1847.

[1674] In June of 1847, when the army fucking gets there to, like, figure out what happened.

[1675] And it takes that long because the snow was so bad on the pass.

[1676] They get there.

[1677] They gather up all of the cannibalized remains, put them into the remaining cabin, and they burned to the ground.

[1678] So 89 people were in the donor party of those 41 died, 48 survived.

[1679] None of the donor adults lived.

[1680] But most James Reed, who was the guy that started out with them, and it is certain, I didn't put this in, but it's very detailed.

[1681] But basically at one point, early on, he gets into a fight with a guy and stabs him to death, gets ostracized from the group.

[1682] And then he's like, tells his wife and gets, I'll meet you in California.

[1683] And he fucking bails out.

[1684] And then he comes back around, and he was in the second relief party that came to rescue people.

[1685] And most of the reeds lived.

[1686] Wow.

[1687] So don't fucking worry about him.

[1688] They did great.

[1689] And, oh, it's the guy's name was Patrick Breen.

[1690] I highly recommend you go online and read Patrick Breen's diary of total fucking starvation insanity, where every day is clean and crisp and beautiful.

[1691] And he's just a little bit more starving.

[1692] That's the donor party, everybody.

[1693] Oh, man, that is harrowing.

[1694] Harrowing.

[1695] Great job.

[1696] What a thing.

[1697] What a thing to have gone through.

[1698] All right.

[1699] And then now we're going to give you a little hometown from our London show from May 12th, 2018.

[1700] That's right.

[1701] From the Hammersmith Apollo.

[1702] Check it out.

[1703] It's a good one.

[1704] Boom.

[1705] Do we have time for a very quick hometown?

[1706] Yes.

[1707] However, tell us our bracelets.

[1708] Okay, good.

[1709] I'm going to tell you the rules really, really quick of a hometown.

[1710] You may have heard these before, but I'll say it for the people who've never listened to our podcast.

[1711] God, bless your souls, I'm so sorry.

[1712] About everything that's happened tonight.

[1713] So this is the home part where we were going to call somebody up to tell their hometown murder.

[1714] Now, listen, you're going to want to tell it in a concise, clear, quick manner.

[1715] You have to remember that if you get picked, everyone who didn't get picked hates your guts.

[1716] so they're not going to watch you like shout out your family and do a bunch of shit just come up and tell it it really needs to have an ending that's a key to all storytelling beginning middle end don't leave us hanging don't tell us how confused and upset everyone was that they never got an answer because then we'll be mad at you because then we'll be confused and upset you can't be so drunk that you can't follow your own storyline that's very we've had that one before and it's funny and charm but also boring as fuck so you can be super buzz but as long as you can power through it and you know hold your own line of logic that's key and I think that's it right?

[1717] Local.

[1718] It should be local.

[1719] Oh yeah don't bring some Arizona shit up here no one wants to hear that we want a fucking London murder or story whatever you have so yeah Georgia will pick the person at random right now don't fuck this up everyone pick the mom Pick the mark.

[1720] It's scary, I know.

[1721] Here, you center up and do a nice stage picture.

[1722] She did the classic, uh, me, look around.

[1723] I was like, yeah, yeah.

[1724] Could it be me?

[1725] Okay, where are you from?

[1726] I'm from Rodram, which is in the north of England.

[1727] Is it anywhere near where they shoot the television show Vera, which I love?

[1728] And there's a bit further, a bit further north, Vera.

[1729] Is it a bit further?

[1730] Okay.

[1731] But I'm going to break one rule you just said.

[1732] Uh -oh.

[1733] It's from Rotherham.

[1734] My murder.

[1735] It's from what?

[1736] Rotherham's where the crime is.

[1737] Oh, from where you're from.

[1738] Okay, no, that's fine.

[1739] That's fine.

[1740] And it's not a murder, but it is a pretty bad one that I'm sure you guys will like.

[1741] Oh, okay.

[1742] Cool.

[1743] So it's the Rotherham shoe rapist.

[1744] Oh.

[1745] So I never knew about this.

[1746] I saw it on a documentary last year, which was pretty weird because it's like where we live.

[1747] So in the 80s, there was a rapist.

[1748] he was getting women on their way home from nights out because in the north we just walk home we don't get taxis he was getting women when they were walking home through parks and stuff like that and he was stealing their shoes after he raped them so this guy did it for about six years and then he just disappeared off the face of the earth there was a young junior detective at the time she was called Sue Hickman only woman's name I can remember about the entire story.

[1749] Sue was an absolute, she'd got this.

[1750] And when she finally made a detective in the early 2000s, she looked at quite what's going off now with the Golden State Killer.

[1751] She decides to look into familial DNA.

[1752] Yes.

[1753] In the UK, you can get your DNA took for pretty much anything now if you commit a crime.

[1754] Cool.

[1755] She got some hits, 3 ,000.

[1756] She spent four years.

[1757] She got it down to six people that she thought were related To him.

[1758] How many years?

[1759] About four or five it was, yeah?

[1760] It took her that long?

[1761] Yes.

[1762] Well, she was only doing it part -time whilst doing, you know, crimes that were happening.

[1763] Rather, I'm pretty rough.

[1764] And she was multitasking.

[1765] Oh, she was got this.

[1766] She's getting it all covered.

[1767] And she was on number three of her list.

[1768] This lady was arrested for drink driving.

[1769] And she gave her DNA.

[1770] And when they did the test, it was, she said, do you have any brothers?

[1771] She said, yeah, I've got a brother, but I don't talk to him anymore.

[1772] She says, all right, well, try and get me some information on that and left.

[1773] Immediately after she left, the lady clearly lied.

[1774] She rang a brother.

[1775] And she told him that she just had this lady here talking about some rapes.

[1776] He put the phone down.

[1777] Within minutes, the police were called.

[1778] There was a man trying to kill himself in Rotherham.

[1779] She loves that part of the story.

[1780] She fucking loves it.

[1781] Well, he wasn't very good at it.

[1782] His son found it stopped it.

[1783] He was an adult.

[1784] He was fine.

[1785] he got arrested well the police were there they thought he was pretty weird they took him to the hospital and they kept an officer with him this guy was just your regular PC and he said something's weird about this guy he was motoring a lot of stuff and he arrested him for a crime that he did not know what happened he said I think it happened in the 80s I think you raped somebody and I think he was a victim and he arrested him for that when they took him down to the police station he confessed to everything but this is where it gets weird They went to his place of work He worked there since he was 18 They pulled up the floorboards And they found 126 pairs of shoes Oh my God Where did he work?

[1786] He worked at a printing factory In Rotherham Fuck Yes Yes It's what we're all like Right Just out there in the shire No one knows what you're doing But So we're gonna I'm gonna end it on a high And then it's just gonna go low At the end So sorry about that Okay okay So he got convicted He played guilty.

[1787] The judge, which is pretty big for the UK, he gave him life in prison.

[1788] Yeah.

[1789] Then he's going to come back down low.

[1790] In the early 2000, he was overturned because it's England and we believe in getting people better.

[1791] They can leave prison again and it's probably not everybody should get that.

[1792] And it was overturned and they let him go in 2006.

[1793] And he's probably still in Rotherham.

[1794] All right.

[1795] Great hometown.

[1796] That's how you do it.

[1797] Guys.

[1798] You guys.

[1799] This will be our, I think, our last personal, personally recorded show for the year until we see you in 2021.

[1800] Yeah.

[1801] Yay.

[1802] Let's all be there.

[1803] Let's wear a great outfit.

[1804] Let's put on the shoes we haven't worn in a year.

[1805] I think everybody make a list of the things you're grateful for get into that place and if you have something to spare try to figure out a way to give it to people who don't because there are people that are going through really tough times these days what this fucking government is doing to people is a crime and don't forget oh well don't forget your food banks and many of you have not because Because when we did our Stay Sexy mask fundraiser, we raised $35 ,791 for Feedingamerica .org, which is you guys buying those masks.

[1806] You guys raised that money.

[1807] So thank you so much.

[1808] That is a murderino's taking action.

[1809] It means so much because people really need help these days.

[1810] And keep it in mind anywhere you can spread a little joy or give people some support or just let people merge and front of you or whatever like honestly it's tough times yes for sure and that is that's an incredible amount of money raised it's so much money I'm just I can't I'm blown away by everyone's generosity and then also for the MFM logo pin that we were giving all the funds to the LGBTQ freedom fund we raised 20 over 22 ,000 dollars for the LGBTQ freedom fund which is fucking incredible we are we are just blown away by everyone's generosity and how incredible that is.

[1811] So thank you guys.

[1812] Our listenership really, they really get stuff done when they come together and all your murderino, um, your subgroups, murderino city by city, you guys, you get together, you take action, you support each other and you help other people.

[1813] It's really a beautiful thing to say there's nothing more touching to me. There's nothing more validating or like rewarding to me about the fact that we started this podcast honestly then when we find stuff like that out that people raise money or they go out and volunteer or do stuff it is there's this really beautiful activist element like to people listening to this podcast that has nothing to do with us it's you guys doing it's like you show up you show up for people in need and we're so happy to facilitate that but we are blown away I mean it's it's you guys and we appreciate it so much we love being the face of it, but you guys are the body.

[1814] Yeah, you've done very beautiful work this year and even the little little things.

[1815] If you couldn't give money because you're broke yourself, you know, just stay positive and stay strong.

[1816] Call a friend.

[1817] Reach out.

[1818] Yeah.

[1819] Reach out.

[1820] Make sure you're talking to people.

[1821] Make sure that you are communicating with people.

[1822] Don't get lonely and don't stay in your own head.

[1823] That's crucial at times like this.

[1824] And remember that we love you and we're grateful for you and stay sexy.

[1825] And don't get murdered.

[1826] Goodbye.

[1827] 20, 20.

[1828] Here, let me, Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1829] Want a cookie?

[1830] Okay.

[1831] That's, there, that's a positive.

[1832] That's, okay.

[1833] Elvis, cookie?