S1: Bonus Ep 2 - Educator Sexual Misconduct

[0] I'm John Walsack, host of the new podcast, Missing in Arizona.

[1] And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

[2] We cloned his voice using AI.

[3] In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode.

[4] Before escaping into the wilderness.

[5] Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

[6] Join me. I'm going down in the cave.

[7] As I track down clues.

[8] I'm going to call the police and have you removed.

[9] Hunting.

[10] One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

[11] Robert Fisher.

[12] Do you recognize my voice?

[13] Listen to missing in Arizona every Wednesday.

[14] on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[15] The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard -pressed to forget.

[16] I did something in 88 that hasn't been beaten.

[17] Oh, gosh, the U .S. Olympic trials is the hardest and most competitive meat in the world.

[18] We are athletes who are going out there, smashing into each other, full force.

[19] Listen to the podium on the IHeart app or your favorite podcast, weekly and every day during the Games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.

[20] In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared.

[21] I found out what happened to all of them, except one, a woman known as Dia, whose estate is worth millions of dollars.

[22] I'm Lucy Sheriff.

[23] Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.

[24] Hear the story on Where's Deer?

[25] Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[26] I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is betrayal.

[27] Bonus Episode 2, Educator Sexual and Misconduct.

[28] We've addressed betrayal in various ways during the series, and we've heard from many of you that personally identified with Rachel, the victim that Spencer Heron was convicted of sexually assaulting at Kell High School.

[29] During our production, we've learned more about how pervasive educator sexual misconduct is.

[30] Sexual misconduct is a range of verbal, visual, and auditory and physical behaviors that are sexualized interactions with students in schools.

[31] Anything from language to students that is sexualized, asking them what they like to do for sex, what kind of sex do they like, like two things that are visual, for instance, masturbating in front of students, never touching them but masturbating in front of them, or disrobing in front of them, or sending them pictures of penises or breasts or vaginas.

[32] And then physical assault issues like forced sex or in terms of minors, it may not be forced sex.

[33] They're minors, they may be confused.

[34] They're often told the person loves them and cares for them and they're gonna get married and things are gonna be okay.

[35] That's Dr. Cheryl Shakeshaft.

[36] She's a professor of educational leadership at Virginia Commonwealth University and the author of a congressionally mandated report on educator sexual misconduct.

[37] She's been studying school employee's sexual misconduct for more than 25 years.

[38] Our team reached out to her to learn more about the problem.

[39] Dr. Shakeshap believes schools have not done nearly enough to prevent educator sexual misconduct and that the onus is often on the children to report.

[40] We have received so many emails with similar stories to Rachel's.

[41] We thought it was important to raise awareness to help students, parents, and schools be aware to avoid predators like Spencer.

[42] We have expected the children to be the people who police the school and prevent things from happening.

[43] So we give them training about good touch, bad touch.

[44] Nothing wrong with that.

[45] They should know those things, absolutely.

[46] But adults also need to know exactly what they should do when they see things, when things are going on, when they're bystanders and stuff happens in front of them, they need training to be able to understand what that means, you know, not just say, oh, he's just a friendly teacher, he hugs all the kids, or she just really likes her students, and yes, she goes out of her way for them.

[47] You know, they need to understand what the boundaries are, that nobody gets to cross those boundaries, and that if you see boundary crossing, you report it.

[48] And then the people who gets reported to need to understand that if there's a report, you need to actually do something.

[49] You need to, in most cases, call the police and have an investigation.

[50] And sometimes, even well -meaning teachers don't understand the dynamics of teachers who engage in sexual.

[51] misconduct.

[52] We heard from a teacher who joined the staff at Kell High School after Spencer Heron was arrested, and one of his comments really stood out.

[53] He wrote, many teachers at Kel would tell me they didn't really believe the charges, or that every story has two sides.

[54] And it really made me feel uncomfortable because of the deplorable charges.

[55] I found it odd that so many employees were complacent or passive about the story.

[56] In schools, they often allow teachers to break rules, taking students in their cars, being alone with students behind closed and locked doors in their rooms.

[57] Teachers see things of their colleagues, and they don't respond.

[58] I asked teachers, did you see anything?

[59] And they say, yes, I did.

[60] It was really irregular and not allowed behavior.

[61] And then I say to the teacher, well, did you report it?

[62] And the teacher will say, well, no. And then I ask why.

[63] And the teacher says, well, you know, if I was wrong, I might get a colleague in trouble and I didn't want to do that and it's kind of awkward, you know, we're friendly, and I just, it just, I just didn't report.

[64] I've never heard a teacher say, yes, I reported, and I reported because even if I'm wrong, I wanted to make sure that if something was happening, somebody was looking into it.

[65] So the issue is that in schools, we don't do anything, and by not doing anything, by not using prevention methods, we enable, those people who either intend to abuse or come around to abusing because they start crossing boundary after boundary after boundary and pretty soon there they are we enable them it's like having roads with no stop signs perhaps teachers don't know what they should say we need to practice the language of reporting just get people familiar with it instead of saying I don't think this is really real I mean I'm probably making something out of nothing.

[66] I mean, it's just, well, you know, I really hate to bring this up.

[67] Say, Harold has his classroom across the hall from me, and I see him there regularly alone with individual students.

[68] It concerns me. Or I saw Janine having dinner with one of her students, and they were sitting really close together.

[69] I'm concerned.

[70] We need to teach people to just give information, and then it's up to somebody to take the next step and investigate.

[71] We asked Dr. Shakecheft, how can we change that thinking and culture in schools?

[72] Every school should have training, training about patterns and what happens and what you're supposed to do as an adult.

[73] Every school should have a set of behaviors so that people understand what's acceptable and what's not acceptable between adults and students.

[74] Many kids just think that it's okay.

[75] They say, if this weren't okay, somebody would have stopped it.

[76] Everybody sees how he acts or how she acts.

[77] So kids don't really understand.

[78] And they think of it as dating.

[79] They don't understand the issues.

[80] So the kids see it.

[81] Kids talk about it.

[82] They see it.

[83] They know stuff's going on.

[84] But they don't report it because they don't code it as something that is supposed to be reported because no one's ever taught them.

[85] I'm John Walzac, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona.

[86] And I'm Robert Fisher.

[87] One of the most wanted men in the world.

[88] We cloned his voice using AI.

[89] In 2001, police say I killed my family.

[90] First mom, then the kids.

[91] And rigged my house to explode.

[92] In a quiet suburb.

[93] This is the Beverly Hills of the valley.

[94] Before escaping into the wilderness.

[95] There was sleet and hail and snow coming down.

[96] They found my wife's SUV.

[97] Right on the reservation boundary.

[98] And my dog flew.

[99] All I could think of is in the sniper me out of some tree.

[100] But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

[101] For two years, they won't tell you anything.

[102] I've traveled the nation.

[103] I'm going down in the cave.

[104] Tracking down clues.

[105] They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere.

[106] If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed.

[107] Searching for Robert Fisher.

[108] One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

[109] Do you recognize my voice?

[110] Join an exploding house.

[111] The hunt.

[112] Family annihilation.

[113] Today.

[114] And a disappearing act.

[115] Listen to missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[116] The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard -pressed to forget.

[117] I did something in 88 that hasn't been beaten.

[118] Oh, gosh, the U .S. Olympic trials is the hardest and most competitive meat in the world.

[119] We are athletes for going out there, smashing into each other, full force.

[120] Listen to The Podium on the IHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.

[121] In the summer of 2020, in the small mountain town of Idlewild, California.

[122] Five women disappeared in the span of just a few months.

[123] Eventually, I found out what happened to the women, all except one.

[124] A woman named Lydia Abrams, known as Dia.

[125] Her friends and family ran through endless theories.

[126] Were she hurt hiking?

[127] Did she run away?

[128] Had she been kidnapped?

[129] I'm Lucy Sherrith.

[130] I've been reporting this story for four years, and I've uncovered a a tangled web of manipulation, estranged families, and greed.

[131] Everyone, it seems, has a different version of events.

[132] Hear the story on Where's Deer, my new podcast from Pushkin Industries and IHeart Podcasts.

[133] Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[134] Dr. Shakeshaft explains that there is training for sexual harassment, but schools could do more.

[135] When you ask most schools if they have training, they say, yes, we have training.

[136] Then when you ask to see the training, what you see is either training about sexual harassment peer to peers.

[137] So the adults get training about not harassing one of their colleagues.

[138] Kids get training about not harassing one of their peers, but neither get training about the adult sexually harassing the student.

[139] Or they get trained on mandated reporting, but, mandated reporting training is about reporting things that happen outside the school, not inside the school.

[140] What else could schools do?

[141] We need people who walk through the cafeteria at lunchtime and look at what adults and students are doing.

[142] People who, when they walk down the halls, are looking at adult and student interaction.

[143] When they go by a classroom door, are looking in and seeing what's going on.

[144] When it's before school and after school and the classroom's empty, checking the classroom, seeing what's happened.

[145] We need people who are on the move and looking for the right things.

[146] It isn't that people don't walk down the halls, but they aren't looking at adult -to -student interactions.

[147] They're looking for some student who's misbehaving.

[148] They're not looking for these things, so we need supervisory behavior.

[149] When you hear a rumor, even if it's abstract, we need people who will investigate.

[150] And on the occasions, someone does report it, The investigation often doesn't go far enough.

[151] They tend to call the teacher in and say, are you having sex with Anne -Marie?

[152] And the teacher says no. And the person says, okay, thank you.

[153] I didn't think so.

[154] And then the teacher steps out and texts Anne -Marie and says, erase everything off your phone.

[155] And if you get called in, tell them nothing's going on.

[156] And that's the end of it.

[157] They don't follow up in supervision.

[158] They don't follow up in trying to see what's happening.

[159] They don't do an investigation.

[160] They don't ask the friends.

[161] They don't do anything.

[162] One of our listeners shared a story that still upsets her years later.

[163] She tried to do the right thing.

[164] She wrote, I was a sophomore in high school, and one of my teachers used to hit on me and tell me very inappropriate things.

[165] For instance, how he would rather have me beside him in his bed instead of his wife.

[166] Nothing physical ever happened.

[167] It was all verbal and the mental toll it had on me it was so much more than my teenage mind could take.

[168] He would follow me in the hallways.

[169] I couldn't take it anymore and broke down in tears to my mother and told her everything.

[170] We went to the school and told the principal everything.

[171] He seemed skeptical.

[172] I was brought in the next day for questioning.

[173] Needless to say, nothing happened, and he was slapped with a week off.

[174] When he came back, it was worse because now he demanded to know why I said anything.

[175] So what should happen?

[176] Call the police and have an investigation.

[177] That's what you need to do.

[178] And what else does Dr. Shake Shaft feel is non -negotiable?

[179] No sharing phone numbers, no sharing social media, no having friends on Facebook, no TikTok, no Instagram, no nothing.

[180] School districts are supposed to have email that are monitored.

[181] They can have texting systems that are monitored.

[182] monitored so that you're using the monitored texting systems for the school.

[183] There are lots of ways to do electronic communication with students when you need to that are monitored by schools and are therefore safe.

[184] Now that doesn't mean somebody might not also use their telephone, but we should at least start with the rule that no, you can't use your personal telephone number, you can't use your personal telephone number for texting or your personal email or your personal social media.

[185] School districts have Facebook social media pages.

[186] They have other things where if you want to make an announcement to your students, you want to do whatever you can do it there.

[187] And we can't just say this one time at the beginning of the school year.

[188] It needs to be messaged over and over again.

[189] It is a simple rule and it should be followed and it should be followed with big signs up all over the place and little pop -ups that come up and other things to remind people, don't give out your telephone number to an adult in the school.

[190] Don't give out your telephone number to a student in school.

[191] Don't text.

[192] We need to change the patterns.

[193] Dr. Shakechef understands how much we put on our teachers.

[194] I was a teacher and I thought this job's the hardest job I've ever had.

[195] It was wonderful, but it was hard work.

[196] And so I don't want to slam the teachers for that.

[197] Yeah, they're busy.

[198] But it is a school culture problem.

[199] If you have a school, culture that's the culture of student safety is first, and these are the things we do, and we talk about it, and we share our strategies, and we bring it up, and we don't bury it, and we don't just say, hey, we've got a handbook and policies, read them, and then tell people that's training, which it's not.

[200] You know, we can change a culture where we say we don't cross kids' boundaries.

[201] That's behavior that's not acceptable here.

[202] The betrayal team thanks Dr. Shakespeare for her insight into educator sexual misconduct.

[203] There are new developments in Jennifer's story, and we'll share them with you in an additional bonus episode soon.

[204] I'm John Walsack, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona.

[205] And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world.

[206] We cloned his voice using AI.

[207] In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness.

[208] Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere.

[209] Join me. I'm going down in the cave.

[210] As I tracked down clues.

[211] I'm going to call the police and have you removed.

[212] Hunting.

[213] One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

[214] Robert Fisher.

[215] Do you recognize my voice?

[216] Listen to missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

[217] The podium is back with fresh angles and deep dives into Olympic and Paralympic stories you know, and those you'll be hard pressed to forget.

[218] I did something in 88 that hasn't been beaten.

[219] Oh, gosh.

[220] The U .S. Olympic trials is the hardest and most competitive men.

[221] in the world.

[222] We are athletes.

[223] We're going out there, smashing into each other full force.

[224] Listen to The Podium on the iHeart app or your favorite podcast platform weekly and every day during the Games to hear the Olympics like you've never quite heard them before.

[225] In 2020, in a small California mountain town, five women disappeared.

[226] I found out what happened to all of them, except one, a woman known as deer, whose estate is worth millions of dollars.

[227] I'm Lucy Sheriff.

[228] Over the past four years, I've spoken with Dia's family and friends, and I've discovered that everyone has a different version of events.

[229] Hear the story on Where's Dear.

[230] Listen on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.