Werner Herzog

[0] Hi, my name is Werner Hartzog.

[1] And I feel a little bit weird about being Conan O 'Brien's friend because I met him only once and that was in front of cameras.

[2] Yes, yes.

[3] Fall is here, hear the yell, back to school, ring the bell, brandy shoes, walking loose, climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends.

[4] We are going to be friends.

[5] Hey there.

[6] Welcome to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.

[7] I just announced the show.

[8] Speaking through Sonas, you were grumbling or coughing or what were you doing?

[9] Clearing your throat?

[10] I was clearing, I'm a throat clearer.

[11] I clear my, I do that.

[12] I made it quite clear I was starting the show, and I heard him.

[13] Can I say something, though?

[14] You sounded like you were going to start it like four times, but you didn't.

[15] So I just thought you weren't.

[16] You never know when I will strike.

[17] Oh, my God.

[18] What is wrong with you?

[19] My God, that was real.

[20] This is a mess.

[21] That was Matt Gourley sneezing his mind out.

[22] Do you got the, you okay?

[23] You got the sniffles?

[24] I have so much COVID right now.

[25] Let's go over in this chamber together.

[26] We're broadcasting from the sphere in Las Vegas.

[27] Yeah.

[28] Maybe it is time that we take stock of, you know, I'm the editor and I know what we all do, our own little ticks, because you clear your throat quite a bit.

[29] Yeah, I do.

[30] And I hear it.

[31] And you do what you do.

[32] You just did right now.

[33] What did I do?

[34] To begin a sentence with that.

[35] Yeah, you do that.

[36] That is, listen, I do that on purpose.

[37] I go, and that's my way of letting the sound engineer know that I'm about to speak.

[38] It's a little code that we worked out.

[39] Isn't that right, Edward?

[40] And guess what?

[41] Another thing, I think that it shows a lot of forethought and planning on my part.

[42] Do you know how much work that is?

[43] I take all of those out.

[44] Why?

[45] I put those in on purpose.

[46] Wait, Matt has a tick, too.

[47] He does a lot of.

[48] plosives.

[49] Pops, plosives.

[50] You do.

[51] You do a lot of plosives.

[52] And then Eduardo has to take those out.

[53] That's probably a lie.

[54] And Wardo also, you just stink to high heaven.

[55] Yeah.

[56] Yeah.

[57] Yeah.

[58] You just, I mean, I don't know what it is.

[59] That comes through on the mic.

[60] I know.

[61] Yeah, we were talking about our mic tics.

[62] You have an audible stench.

[63] You got personal.

[64] That's just not cool.

[65] Okay.

[66] Yeah, let's try it all at once.

[67] We'll all do our personal things that we do all at once.

[68] And, And, Errardo, you'll, yeah, put your armpit to the microphone.

[69] And one, two, three, go.

[70] P -U.

[71] Before I begin, I go, is that right?

[72] And you just take it out.

[73] Well, and then you'll go like.

[74] All right, what if I tried not to do that anymore?

[75] That would make your life easier.

[76] Oh, boy, would it.

[77] Maybe I substitute it for something else.

[78] So, anyway, I, but see, the audience wouldn't even know that this is an issue because they're never in the final product.

[79] Same with the throat clearing.

[80] Oh, really?

[81] I try to clear it off mic.

[82] You too not.

[83] You make more noise.

[84] I sometimes do.

[85] I do this and then I cough at my elbow.

[86] That's nice.

[87] Yeah.

[88] What do you do gargle with fava beans before you get on the mic?

[89] No, I don't know why I do that.

[90] I think I talk incorrectly.

[91] Speak incorrectly.

[92] Speak in, shut up.

[93] I'm sorry.

[94] That was mean.

[95] That was mean?

[96] I think you're okay with that one.

[97] Yeah.

[98] It was so just instinctive.

[99] No, I think I speak.

[100] speaking correctly.

[101] You're supposed to speak from your diaphragm.

[102] I'm just like up here.

[103] Well, I think.

[104] Oh, God.

[105] Well, these ones I don't have to take out.

[106] No, you can leave these in.

[107] Yeah.

[108] I'm going to keep an eye on that from now on because you work very hard making sure that this product, and that is a product, goes out to people for free for some reason, is of the highest quality.

[109] And you work hard removing our little ticks.

[110] God knows what the listener or fan isn't here.

[111] Maybe for this, the Werner Herzog episode, which I have not yet edited, I'll leave them all in and just for a taste, just so people can see.

[112] I wouldn't do it.

[113] I think people will hate the podcast.

[114] And we might be sued by Werner Herzog.

[115] It's possible he's got some of his own ticks.

[116] He accused me of being quite insane several times.

[117] He accuses everyone at being, you're enveloped in madness.

[118] I saw him yelling at a toad outside the studio.

[119] Mr. Toad, you are enveloped by insanity and madness.

[120] Mr. Hertzberg, would you like to come in?

[121] Oh, sorry.

[122] How are you, Mr. Toad?

[123] Ribbit.

[124] I am going to do the best I can to be a little more professional.

[125] Do we have buttons that we can push?

[126] Like delay buttons?

[127] Or like cough buttons?

[128] Not, not currently ways.

[129] Because I recently recorded something at SXM Studios, SiriusXM, and they had all these cool buttons that were quite helpful.

[130] And I thought, huh, these don't exist in the studio that Eduardo designed.

[131] I was told not to give you toys that you can, like, just push it.

[132] That makes sense.

[133] That's hilarious.

[134] My God.

[135] That makes so much sense.

[136] Whoever made that call made the right call.

[137] I'm like a chimp in a capsule.

[138] I'm like a chimp in a space capsule.

[139] Don't let the chimp actually, don't let them near any controls.

[140] I love that there was a conversation about it.

[141] Wait, adults had a meeting.

[142] Adults had a conversation and say, there shouldn't be any buttons that is great.

[143] That is great.

[144] I won't rat anybody out.

[145] Who was it?

[146] I want to know.

[147] Give me a name.

[148] I can't say.

[149] I bet it was Jeff Ross.

[150] No, don't say it.

[151] Oh, Adam Sacks.

[152] Can neither confirm nor deny.

[153] No, you can't make him do it.

[154] The snitches, snitches get stitches.

[155] You can't make him do that.

[156] Not around here, they don't.

[157] Snitches get passive aggressive.

[158] Snitches get riches here.

[159] Yeah.

[160] I don't think it would be a problem to have those buttons.

[161] And it's not like you can go crazy with a cough button.

[162] Now, if there was a button that made a coughing sound, I'd be hitting that all the time.

[163] Or a fart button.

[164] Oh, my God, I would love a fart button.

[165] Just hitting that.

[166] And you know what?

[167] I'd make sure that I was waiting to like, and today we're talking to Dame Judy Dench.

[168] Now, Dame Judy Dench, you've done such an incredible, well, thank you about, well, I just, and I, and I'm hitting all these sound effects buttons.

[169] And then she just says, I am never doing that podcast again.

[170] Dave Judy Dench, that got eight million listeners.

[171] And your movie went through the roof.

[172] Then have me back instantly.

[173] I love that farthing podcast.

[174] I want buttons.

[175] Get me buttons at work.

[176] The king demands a fart buttons.

[177] I want buttons.

[178] I want levers.

[179] I want all kinds of things.

[180] I want to look like Willy Wonka.

[181] You know we should get him as a Bopit.

[182] Do you remember Bopit?

[183] Yeah.

[184] It's that toy that has all those things.

[185] It's basically like a kid's toy, but you have to like hit it.

[186] And it goes, awo, ah, woo got.

[187] A woo got.

[188] Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

[189] Oh my God.

[190] What a great podcast you would have if I had that thing.

[191] Yeah.

[192] That'd be fantastic.

[193] Wait, you looked uncertain.

[194] All right, well, there's no transition here.

[195] I also need a transition.

[196] That would help right now.

[197] Well, my guest today, it's a legendary filmmaker.

[198] Oh, man. Who's made over 70 films, including Grizzly Man and Fitzcaroldo.

[199] Now he has a new memoir entitled Every Man for Himself and God Against All.

[200] He is revered.

[201] He's esteemed.

[202] He's a true artist.

[203] He should not be here.

[204] I'm excited, though, that he has joined us.

[205] Werner Herzog, welcome.

[206] Werner, you don't know who I really am.

[207] And so you don't really know if you could be my friend.

[208] You don't know what kind of...

[209] Of course, and we have seen each other only once.

[210] Cameras rolling and we haven't hit the bars.

[211] We haven't been in high school together.

[212] We haven't rafted down a...

[213] jungle river and so on.

[214] Yes, yes.

[215] I understand that it's going to be harder for me to become your close friend than it is.

[216] It won't happen in half an hour or an hour of being together, but that's fine.

[217] Let's try our best anyway.

[218] What about if it were to exist, would you say five hours would do it?

[219] Or are you talking it would take maybe more than more lifetime than either of us has left?

[220] It actually has happened in my life once or twice, that I became an instantaneous friend to somebody.

[221] I played in a soccer team, which was the best in Peru at the time.

[222] Yes.

[223] And I just did the condition training with them.

[224] But all of a sudden when they had the team A playing against Team B, there was one player missing, and the coach said, you play team B, which position would you like to play?

[225] and I said, I want to play against one of the best in the world was in that team.

[226] He was voted as one of the 11 best players in the world after the world championships, Gallardo, a speed freak.

[227] And I tried to give him problems and be an obstacle, and after 10 minutes, I didn't know which direction we were playing.

[228] Yes.

[229] I didn't know which jersey we wore.

[230] He completely confounded you.

[231] It confounded me, bamboozled me, and I was so exhausted after 10 minutes that I crawled off the field and vomited in some bushes for an hour and a half.

[232] One guy pulls me out on my legs and talks to me and he says, you did well, you played against one of the best in the world.

[233] Doesn't matter if you are defeated like that.

[234] And we were friends instantly.

[235] Oh, so it wasn't with the soccer player that you became friends.

[236] You became friends with the man who pulled you out of the bushes while vomiting.

[237] Yes, exactly.

[238] So that's a guy who you could instantaneously be friends with.

[239] But Conan O 'Brien, no, not possible.

[240] I hope that you start to vomit at some point in this interview, and I will rescue you.

[241] I will not.

[242] Well, we'll see.

[243] Drink this.

[244] I have a little something in there.

[245] Well, I'm going to say something else.

[246] What do I call you?

[247] Because I have great respect for you.

[248] Just call me Werner, first name.

[249] Is it Werner with a V?

[250] Well, we say Werner.

[251] In German, don't try.

[252] I'm going to try, Werner.

[253] Yeah, well, no, it will be too rough, tough.

[254] Okay, I won't do it.

[255] Werner, let me say that I know from reading your book, which, by the way, let me just give the title of this book, Every Man for Himself and God Against All.

[256] Thank God this isn't a children's book.

[257] Can you imagine saying, okay, little Timmy, it's time to go to sleep.

[258] We're going to read every man from self and God against all.

[259] Sure, yes.

[260] I don't think that boy would ever go to sleep.

[261] That's a terrifying idea.

[262] But I read your book, and you describe yourself as a bit of a loner.

[263] Do you have a big circle of friends, or it's not your natural way?

[264] No, a circle of real friends is small and very intense.

[265] Yes.

[266] The only problem is that I live so far out, and that's Los Angeles.

[267] and my friends are in Peru, they are in Germany, they are in India, they are in Sicily.

[268] So that's the hard part of it.

[269] Here's a question that just occurred to me. We now have this technology that really exploded in Zoom.

[270] And everyone is saying, well, it's fantastic because I can keep up my friendships with people who live far away.

[271] I have a problem with Zoom.

[272] I don't feel like I'm really communicating with the person when I'm on Zoom.

[273] It doesn't feel, I feel like something essential is being extracted from the interaction.

[274] Is that possible?

[275] You're totally right, although I use it.

[276] But I use it only with people whom I know very well.

[277] But I have to refresh the physical contact with them.

[278] I want to embrace them directly once in a while.

[279] I want to laugh with them I want to cook a meal for them and then it's okay that you do one or two Zoom calls sometimes there are business Zoom calls they have to be made because there is somebody involved in a project who is in Australia somebody who is in the United Kingdom in London and I'm in Los Angeles so it's very hard to get them together I'm trying to imagine when you would create, and I was thinking about your whole body of work, which is mind -boggling, there were so many times where you've put yourself in extreme positions as a director.

[280] And I'm thinking that you couldn't just sit still in your office and be on a Zoom.

[281] You would need to be on a raft floating down a river in Peru, battling the elements on your Zoom while everyone else was talking.

[282] Do you know what mean?

[283] That you would, you Werner -Hartstock would have to be, it feels like that would be the kind of Zoom you would want to have, is to put yourself way out there.

[284] you have to be really out there and Zoom is belong somewhere else.

[285] It's a, it's a different world and you have to make a decision.

[286] Do you want to use it for what purpose is?

[287] For example, I'm probably the last holdout who doesn't use a cell phone.

[288] You don't have a cell phone.

[289] I don't have a cell phone.

[290] I don't have a cell phone now.

[291] But it's for cultural reasons.

[292] I'm not nostalgic.

[293] So I want to derive my interaction or my knowledge of the real world in direct contact with the world, the most intense would be traveling on foot which I have done.

[294] This is a quote.

[295] You said it in your book and it really stuck with me. The world reveals itself to those who travel on foot.

[296] Yeah.

[297] It's important to you to walk and see things in real time.

[298] It's not just real time.

[299] You are unprotected when you travel on foot and I don't meet backpacking with your whole household on your back, your tent, your sleeping bag, your cooking utensils and so on.

[300] I'm a lazy bum like everyone else.

[301] I wouldn't not travel on foot unless there was an existentially important reason for it.

[302] For example, I would travel on foot when my mentor very old woman by then 80 years old Jewish who had fled Nazi Germany on the day when Hitler took power and she was in hiding in France during the Second World War and the Nazi regime and she became my mentor and was very important and when she was dying I said I'm not flying I'm not taking the train or I'm not going by car I will come on foot a thousand kilometers and it was early winter in snowstorm and hail and rain and whatever.

[303] And I would sleep under bridges sometimes, sometimes in the hay of a barn.

[304] I would open a vacation home that was uninhabited with some sort of tools, surgical tools, without breaking a lock, I can open it and close it again and sleep in there.

[305] And she was out of hospital, by the way, when I arrived.

[306] That's incredible.

[307] Eight years later when she was 88, probably 88, because we do not know exactly how old she became.

[308] She celebrated her 75th birthday at least twice, maybe three times.

[309] Normally women start to cheat about their age much earlier, but she had 75.

[310] I've been celebrating my 35th now for a long time.

[311] She summoned me eight years later, she summons me to Paris, and she said to me just over a cup of tea, there's still this spell upon me that I must not die you put that spell on me and I'm old now I'm almost blind I cannot read books which is the joy of my life I cannot see movies which is the other joy of my life I'm lame I can barely walk so can you lift the spell off of me and I said okay yes it's lifted and eight days later she died And it was good, it was right.

[312] She had put me in a position where I had become independent and strong and self -confident, and you just name it.

[313] That's a beautiful story.

[314] You touch on your childhood, which is not of this, I mean, clearly not of this century, but it feels like your childhood could have been 400 years ago.

[315] You grew up in such poverty.

[316] You grew up in this, I mean, you're born.

[317] as you say in the book, at this moment when fortunes are changing for the German army.

[318] In North Africa, Rommel is about to start losing, and the Germans have invaded Stalingrad, which is the beginning of the end.

[319] So, but you grow up in this great tumult and terrible poverty, and you say that you weren't really aware that you were poor other than you were hungry a lot.

[320] Yes, that's when you really know you're poor and my mother would have a loaf of bread, one loaf for my two brothers and me and her, four people.

[321] And she would make a groove for each day and each of us had one thin slice of bread per day.

[322] But normally by Friday when we were so hungry we had eaten the whole loaf of bread and we hoped that she would find something somewhere.

[323] But sometimes it was always Saturday, Sunday, that was the worst when there was nothing.

[324] So, and I remember that very well.

[325] And we were wailing and tugging at her skirt and she spun her.

[326] I remember her very well for that.

[327] She spins around, completely composed, but with an anger and despair in her face that I've never seen before after.

[328] And very calmly she says, boys, if I could.

[329] could cut it out of my ribs.

[330] I would cut it out of my ribs, but I can't, so you shut up.

[331] And that made a big, big impression on me, of course.

[332] But many people have grown up hungry or poor.

[333] There's nothing wrong about that.

[334] For children, it's much easier than for their parents.

[335] When a mother cannot feed the children anymore, that's a real awful thing.

[336] It's interesting because I've been I'm thinking about all of your work and what comes up so often for me, and this is my interpretation, and so much, there's been so much discussion of your work, but will, there's an iron will that you have, and I'm wondering, with these film productions, which are, you know, impossible to pull off.

[337] You're in the jungle.

[338] It's, things are collapsing.

[339] Your main actor, Klaus Kinski, wants to murder you.

[340] You want to murder him.

[341] It all sounds impossible, and yet, you.

[342] you always keep going.

[343] And I'm wondering, is that...

[344] And you have to move a ship over a mountain.

[345] In Fitzgerald, you have to move a ship over a mountain, and you've made work about how difficult the work was, or documentaries about how impossible the project is.

[346] And what I keep coming back to are a couple of themes.

[347] And one is will.

[348] Iron will.

[349] And I'm wondering, was that something, in your opinion, is that in your soul, or in your genetics, or was that something that somehow was the product of having so little growing up?

[350] I think it's not a correct description to point at iron will, because you can dissuade me from my will with a real good argument.

[351] And I do the doable.

[352] I really do the doable.

[353] I knew I could move a ship over a mountain in the jungle.

[354] It can be done, and I knew I would be able to do it.

[355] although nobody believed in it anymore.

[356] And you become very solitary when there are 800 people around and nobody believes in it.

[357] In the next town where you can buy a torchlight battery is 800 kilometers away.

[358] So you become very solitary, but it's not, I wouldn't call it iron will.

[359] It's a very, very clear vision.

[360] Yeah.

[361] A very deep vision in me. and I knew moving a ship over a mountain would be a great metaphor, something like Moby Dick, the White Whale, something embedded very deep in our soul, in our collective soul, probably.

[362] And I can articulate it.

[363] And all of a sudden everybody understands, although I must confess metaphor for what I cannot explain.

[364] Well, everyone can have their own interpretation because...

[365] It's better that way.

[366] We've all, in our lives, we've all pulled a giant ship over a mountain.

[367] Sure.

[368] And when I say that, I mean, we've all battled with something that most people thought, well, that can't be done.

[369] I'm curious if, when I look at your work, I think, did you have, you seem very solid the whole time, even during all this insanity and chaos, you seem very solid.

[370] And I think, do you have a good mask, a good poker face?

[371] Or did you feel true despair?

[372] If there's only a mask, it would get cracks and it would become visible that it's only posing.

[373] Right.

[374] You have to have it in you.

[375] So what can I say?

[376] It has carried me that I'm just myself and essentially myself in many of the situations.

[377] There's another theme that you see.

[378] love to explore, which is madness.

[379] It comes up again and again and again.

[380] And I was noticing it even came up.

[381] In so many of your films, there's that line between someone being obsessed and are they, have they gone mad?

[382] Have they lost control of themselves?

[383] You've worked with people who could clinically be called mad, if that's a real clinical diagnosis anymore.

[384] When you did your documentary encounters at the end of the world and you're in Antarctica, I remember very clearly there's a scene where you're looking at the penguins.

[385] and you start to wonder, have they gone mad?

[386] Or at least one.

[387] At least one.

[388] Has there one penguin gone mad?

[389] But I thought, well, Werner Herzog went all the way to Antarctica, and he's looking at penguins, and he's still wondering about madness.

[390] Is it right that that is a true, that's a theme that you like to try and mine or explore?

[391] Yes, it's not only madness, but a state where we can be out or beyond ourselves, like an ecstasy, like religious mystics in the late Middle Ages, or it could be a penguin.

[392] I asked a penguin researcher, and I was told he has not spoken to anyone for 24 years.

[393] So I said, I will be the first one.

[394] And I tell him some things that he has never heard.

[395] Why do, for example, species of ants create colonies of slaves of some sort of of lice that they milked for droplets of water, droplets of sugar.

[396] Why is that?

[397] And why does a chimp not saddle the goat and ride off into the sunset of Death Valley or a monument valley?

[398] Yeah.

[399] Why does this happen?

[400] Is there insanity among animals, not only among people.

[401] Is there insanity among penguins?

[402] Some, because I observed a penguin that marches right into a, the continent.

[403] And it's 5 ,000 kilometers of ice and mountains.

[404] And there's no way to turn the penguin around.

[405] You can do that.

[406] And you shouldn't do it, by the way.

[407] But you can turn it around.

[408] It will immediately stubbornly march into his death, into the interior of the continent, not to the water, not to the colony.

[409] So what is going on?

[410] I've been fascinated by this.

[411] famously.

[412] It's been much discussed, but it's so riveting.

[413] You had this work dynamic with the actor Klaus Kinski, and there's something in it that I understand.

[414] I understand because I've watched all the films.

[415] I've watched the documentaries about the making of the films.

[416] I've seen him completely lose control.

[417] I've seen in real time people who are working on the film plotting to kill Kinski.

[418] Kinski plotting to, and threatening to kill you, you plotting to kill, Kinski, and I swear to you that what I'm saying is true right now.

[419] I've worked in comedy for, you know, 40 years and for 30 of those years, I worked many times out in the field, making comedy under duress in strange conditions.

[420] And I've wanted to kill people that I've worked with.

[421] One of them's here.

[422] Oh, no. But I've, but I've been, I've been, I've got.

[423] into an altered state at times.

[424] I've been hungry and cold and we've needed to get this shot and a lot of what I do is somewhat improvisational and I need to improvise something and make something happen.

[425] Yeah.

[426] And I've...

[427] You have to deliver.

[428] And I have to deliver something.

[429] And I do think there are times when I've gone, I've gone to another state.

[430] And I'm thinking specifically of an episode I did where we were shooting in Italy and it was late in the day and we were exhausted and And suddenly we had to shoot a thing where we were hunting for truffles.

[431] And I just, I started to, I started to lose it.

[432] And I think I lost my mind during the truffle hunt and started hopping around like a rabbit.

[433] Now, anyone watching it might think, I don't know what's happening with Conan or maybe he's just doing this because he thinks it's funny.

[434] No, I really did lose, lose it and have this kind of madness.

[435] But I also understand, I'm kind of in love with it.

[436] There's a part of me that is attracted to it.

[437] And, of course, what you are doing, multiply that by a thousand, your work with Kinski.

[438] But when you say afterwards, no, we were brothers.

[439] To most people, that would seem impossible that this man could be screaming at you and abusing you and you screaming back at him.

[440] But no, I understand it.

[441] I understand how you can go through that with someone, but also cherish that bond.

[442] Does that?

[443] It's hard to describe it.

[444] And in my book, I described quite a bit about it.

[445] Number one, there is a side to all this, which is hilarious.

[446] Number two, I've never lost it.

[447] I cannot remember that I ever lost it.

[448] I've always been the calmest of calm in such situations.

[449] Yes, that's right.

[450] You don't lose it, yeah.

[451] He would scream at the native people in the rainforest, and they would huddle sit down because they solve their cost.

[452] conflicts very quietly, whispering and whispering voices.

[453] And they came afterwards to me, and one of their chiefs said to me, you know, we were afraid.

[454] But don't you believe we were afraid of this screaming madman?

[455] They were afraid of me because I was so quiet.

[456] Ah, okay.

[457] And I really meant business.

[458] And in moments of real confrontation, Kinski understood when I explained to him, very, very calmly.

[459] This is impermissible.

[460] This cannot be done what you are trying.

[461] There's a task that is beyond the two of us.

[462] We have to stick to it or else and he would know that this or else would mean he would be a dead man within 30 seconds flat.

[463] I didn't have to spell it out.

[464] You just did though.

[465] Yeah, that's incredible.

[466] You're doing it now.

[467] You're doing it now.

[468] Let's put it.

[469] Let's put it simply.

[470] You have to have to have it in you to stop at a certain moment and to understand, yes, you do not do this.

[471] You're not going to kill each other.

[472] It's a beautiful script, which is outside of the movie, and the script is not going to happen.

[473] Otherwise, you end up on death row, and I have made nine.

[474] films on death row.

[475] And I know that every single one on death row that I met, men and women, were only a step away from what I am, what almost all of us are.

[476] Yeah, that's true.

[477] Very human, human beings.

[478] It's interesting because there's this new movement that's being discussed lately, and it was written about the other day, I think, in the New York Times, which said if you, when dealing with someone who's out of control or psychotic, they say become a gray rock become bland and very, very sort of almost disinterested.

[479] And they say it's the best way to treat them.

[480] So had you screamed back at Kinski and entertained and tried to meet him scream for scream, the whole thing would have blown up by staying almost inert as you did.

[481] No, we had a plane crash and only garbled messages in our camp.

[482] We didn't know exactly where was it?

[483] How many people?

[484] Can we...

[485] Was this a plane that was coming to the film shoot?

[486] Two -hour film...

[487] Yeah.