The Tube Sock Killer

[0] Today's podcast features two separate, unique stories that share a theme, mind -boggling unsolved mysteries.

[1] The audio from both of these stories has been pulled from my YouTube channel and has been remastered for today's episode.

[2] The links to the original YouTube videos are in the description.

[3] The first story you'll hear is called Mommy is in the Trees, and it's about the story that a little girl told police after she was found wandering around a department store by herself in 1985 in Washington State.

[4] The second story you'll hear is called Where Did He Go?

[5] And it's about the baffling disappearance of Bryce Lispisa.

[6] But before we get into today's stories, if you're a fan of the Strange, dark, and Mysterious Delivered in Story format, then you've come to the right podcast because that's all we do, and we upload twice a week, once on Monday and once on Thursday.

[7] So, if that's of interest to you, please ask the five -star review button to go for a walk with you in northeastern Australia and push them into a gimpy -gimpy plant.

[8] Also, please subscribe to the Mr. Ballin podcast, wherever you listen to podcasts, so you don't miss any of our weekly uploads.

[9] Okay, let's get into our first story called Mommy Is in the Trees.

[10] I'm Dan Tversky.

[11] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[12] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[13] What's the answer?

[14] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[15] Hysterical.

[16] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[17] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[18] In 1985, 36 -year -old Michael Reamer was a roofer in Tacoma, Washington, and his boss described him as being a work -hard, play -hard type of guy.

[19] In the winter months, when there really wasn't any roofing to be done, Mike would supplement his income by trapping coyote, mink, and muskrat in the forest that butted up against the Nisqually River, which was an 80 -mile stretch that ran right near his home.

[20] Most of the traps Mike would set would be far, away from any actual trail because wherever there was a trail, you would have human foot traffic and that would scare away the animals that you're trying to catch in your trap.

[21] And so as a result, he would place his traps in very remote, you know, isolated sections of the forest, which meant he needed to know where those sections were.

[22] And so over the 15 years he spent trapping in this forest, he got really, really good at navigating it.

[23] It was like he had a map in his head of where everything was in this forest.

[24] Plus, Mike was already an avid outdoorsman.

[25] And so navigating, he got a navigating a forest and being out in the wild was something that just kind of came naturally to him.

[26] Mike's girlfriend was a 21 -year -old woman named Diana Robertson, and they had a two -year -old daughter named Crystal.

[27] Mike and Diana had a rocky relationship, to say the least.

[28] In fact, in October of that year, Diana had filed a restraining order against Mike after he had kicked in the door and thrown her to the ground.

[29] Mike also always carried a gun on him and he had a very quick temper.

[30] But despite their significant relationship issues, the one thing they could always see eye to eye on was their daughter, Crystal.

[31] They adored her, and when it came to decisions about her, they were always on the same page.

[32] It was whatever is in the best interest of Crystal.

[33] In December of that year, Diana and Mike were able to reconcile, and so Diana threw the restraining order out.

[34] And in fact, she and Crystal moved back in with Mike, which made Crystal very, very happy.

[35] Just a couple of days after moving back in, they decided they wanted to go out and go camping together as a family and then also pick out a real Christmas tree that could bring back for the holidays.

[36] And so they settled on an area that was going to be in the same forest where Mike had all of his traps and they figured they could, you know, get their family time in, they could get their Christmas tree.

[37] And Mike would be able to check his traps, saving himself from making another trip later on.

[38] So on December 12th, the three of them loaded up into Mike's red pickup truck and they drove the 30 minutes down towards Nisqually River where there was this logging road that Mike would use to park his truck and then walk in to check his traps.

[39] So Mike pulls over on the side of the road.

[40] They all hop out and Mike leads the way right into the middle of the woods.

[41] There's no trail.

[42] Mike is just bringing them to an area where one, his traps will be and two, he thinks is suitable for camping and for looking for a Christmas tree.

[43] Later that afternoon, Crystal was spotted walking around a parking lot of a Kmart 20 miles away from where Mike had parked the car near Nisqualvi River.

[44] And she's just walking around.

[45] She looks totally confused.

[46] She's all alone.

[47] and the employees of the Kmart are looking out and they see this girl and they're all watching waiting for you know her parents or a guardian or someone to walk over and show that they are with this girl but after a couple of minutes when no one does that one of the employees goes out and tries to talk to her and this employee would say when she talked to the girl she kept looking over her shoulder and she was just terrified the whole time and so this employee asked her you know what's your name and she didn't say anything she asked her you know, where are you coming from?

[48] Where are your parents?

[49] Who's looking after you?

[50] And to all the questions she was asked, she didn't say anything.

[51] She just looked terrified and was looking over her shoulder.

[52] And so this employee brings the girl back inside and they call the police.

[53] And so the police show up and they ask the girl the same questions that the employees have been asking her and the girl's still not speaking.

[54] And so after they made an announcement inside to say, hey, is anybody in here the parent or guardian of this child and no one came forward?

[55] They said, okay, well, we have no other choice, but we're going to have to move her to temporary foster care and so they move her to a foster home and then they put an ad out in the newspaper that day with a picture of her basically saying if you know me contact this number two days later crystal's maternal grandmother would see the picture in the newspaper and the ad did not have a description of you know how she was discovered it just said she had been found that this particular camer and if you know who she is please contact this number even without the details the grandmother knows something has gone wrong because there's no reason in the world those two parents would abandon their beloved Crystal.

[56] And so she calls Diana, she calls Mike, they don't pick up the phone.

[57] That's when she calls the number and she says, what's going on?

[58] I'm her grandmother.

[59] Where is she?

[60] The police tell her to go to the foster home and they will meet her there and they're going to talk about what happened.

[61] So the grandmother flies to the foster home and she arrives there before the police.

[62] She goes inside and Crystal is so happy to see her.

[63] It's the first time Crystal has really broken out of that kind of catatonic state she had been in ever since she was found at the Kmart.

[64] So she runs up to her grandmother.

[65] They have this reunion.

[66] And the grandmother's so happy to see Crystal, but she's also thinking, where are your parents?

[67] Where are Diana and Mike?

[68] And so she asks Crystal, where are they, honey?

[69] Where is your mom?

[70] Where is your dad?

[71] And Crystal would speak to her grandmother.

[72] And she would say, mommy's in the trees.

[73] Her grandmother didn't know what this meant.

[74] And so she tried to ask clarifying questions.

[75] But Crystal was not very verbal.

[76] She was not able to articulate more than what she was saying.

[77] So she just kept repeating it, saying, mommy's in the trees.

[78] Mommy's in the trees.

[79] And so then the police show up and the grandmother turns to them and she says, where are her parents?

[80] Where are Mike and Diana?

[81] And the police turned to her and they're like, we don't know.

[82] We found her abandoned in this parking lot and she wasn't speaking and no one knew anything about her.

[83] And so until right now, we didn't even know her parents' names.

[84] Do you have any idea where they might be?

[85] And the grandmother's like, I have no idea.

[86] I mean, I'm just learning about all of this stuff now.

[87] But when I came over here, Crystal said to me, Mommy's in the trees.

[88] And, you know, she's not very verbal, so she can't explain much more than that.

[89] But she just kept saying mommy's in the trees.

[90] And I know Mike liked to go camping in this one area near the Nisquale River.

[91] He keeps traps out near the edge of the water.

[92] He catches some small animals out there.

[93] So I know he goes out there and goes camping.

[94] And so maybe that's what Crystal's referencing, that they were in the trees.

[95] So they were in that forest over there.

[96] The grandmother also gave the police the address to Mike's house.

[97] And the police used that information to launch their search for the parents.

[98] And so the first place they go is Mike's house, and all the lights are off, the door is locked, and his red pickup truck, because the grandmother said he drove a red pickup truck, his red pickup truck is not there.

[99] And so they rule out his house, they're not there, and they begin flying a plane not only over Tacoma, which is the area where they were living, but also over that forest that was right up against the Nisquale River.

[100] And as they're flying, they're looking for campsites that could potentially be Mike and Diana, but they're also looking for the red pickup truck, which is fairly distinctive.

[101] And after a couple of days of flying all over the forest and looking around the side streets and putting people in the forest walking on foot, they couldn't find anything and they turned the search off.

[102] And they would tell the grandmother and the rest of the family on Diana's and Mike's side that they really just needed to wait for more information to come in because they couldn't just spend an indefinite amount of time scanning a fairly large area.

[103] They have all of Tacoma in this huge forest.

[104] And so everyone just had to wait.

[105] Two months later, a man and his dog were out walking on this logging road that was about 10 miles away from the Nisquale River and 30 miles away from the Kmart where Crystal was found and they're walking on this road and they see way off in the distance there's this truck that's pulled over to the side of this road and even from a distance they can tell it's covered in snow but it hasn't snowed recently there's there's snow on the ground but the amount of snow that is on this truck indicates it's been sitting here for quite a while and so as they get closer to the truck this man is looking around seeing if maybe the owner is nearby even though it seems unlikely given the fact that it looks like it's been sitting here a while and so after he stands there for a minute looking around feeling pretty confident there's no one in the area he brushes the snow off the passenger side window and he looks inside and he doesn't see anything at first but he notices on the passenger front seat there's a significant amount of blood on the seat or what appears to be blood and this startles the guy so he backs up from it and he and his dog very quickly leave this area because they're in this kind of desolate you know logging road he's pretty isolated and so he gets out of there as quickly as he can and when he gets to a phone he calls the police.

[106] Police show up and they brush the rest of the snow off and they find it is a red pickup truck.

[107] It's Mike's red pickup truck.

[108] Mike and Diana's case had been very big news in the area when it happened and the news had really not gone away.

[109] People were out there looking for this couple.

[110] And so as soon as they saw this was Mike's truck, they start fanning out and searching the area seeing if they can find any other clues about what happened to Mike and Diana.

[111] And very quickly, they discovered Diana's body.

[112] She was located not far from the red truck, just barely off the road, in the forest.

[113] She was under several inches of snow, and she had been stabbed 17 times, and there was a tube sock wrapped around her neck.

[114] There was no sign of Mike, but once they got inside the truck, there was a manila folder that had been tucked up on the dashboard that just said, I love you, Diana.

[115] When police showed that message to Diana's family, they all said, that looks like Mike's handwriting.

[116] He used to send us handwritten Christmas cards, and that looks exactly the way he writes.

[117] As for the blood that was on the passenger seat inside the truck, it had been sitting out for too long so they weren't able to determine whose blood it was, but they were able to determine it was human.

[118] So between the blood on the front seat, the note that was left on the dashboard, the personal, furious nature of the way in which Diane was killed, combined with Mike's history of violence and his disappearance, because he's not here anymore, that all made it seem an awful lot like Mike was the guy that did this.

[119] In fact, this made for a very tidy ending to a mystery that it actually started before Diana had been killed.

[120] On August 10, 1985, so four months before Mike, Diana, and Crystal ventured off into the woods near Nisqually River, 27 -year -old Stephen Harkins and his girlfriend, 42 -year -old Ruth Cooper, were going camping near Nisqually River in the same forest.

[121] They were actually about 15 miles from where Diana's body was ultimately found, and they were very close to a number of Mike's traps, although they'd be able to.

[122] probably didn't realize they were near them.

[123] During their trip, an unknown assailant walked up to their campsite in the middle of the night and shot them both to death.

[124] Stephen was found right away and he was found inside of his sleeping bag at their campsite indicating he had been killed in his sleep.

[125] Ruth wasn't found for months and when she was, she was found a mile and a half away from the campsite and she had a tube sock tied around her neck the same way Diana had.

[126] And the knot that was used on the tube sock was even the same as the knot used on Diana's tube sock.

[127] suck.

[128] So the similarity was just too much to overlook.

[129] And so to the police, they're thinking, Mike has to be the guy in both of these cases.

[130] You know, he attacked Ruth and Stephen, perhaps because they were, you know, on his territory where his traps were and he didn't like that.

[131] You know, he has a history of violence and so he attacks them.

[132] And then a couple months later, he attacks Diana and then he flees.

[133] As for his daughter being found alive at the Kmart, it would seem he just did not have it in him to harm his own child.

[134] And so he dropped drop at the Kmart before he ultimately fled.

[135] Despite everything seeming to fit just perfectly to where, yep, Mike is definitely the guy, not only for Diana, but for Ruth and for Stephen, we figured it out.

[136] Despite that being the overwhelming feeling, there were a couple of questions that remained unanswered, like the FBI.

[137] They were unable to confirm the handwriting on that folder that said, I love you, Diana.

[138] They were unable to confirm that that, in fact, was Mike's handwriting.

[139] Diana's family was really convinced it was his, but the FBI said it's not necessarily a match.

[140] And then you have the motives for the two crimes.

[141] We can understand one of them.

[142] Him attacking Diana, unfortunately, people attack their partners all the time, and so we can understand that.

[143] We can rationalize that.

[144] But for him to attack Ruth and Stephen, two total strangers, because what, they encroached on your land, even though it's not your land, it's public land, and you just happen to put your traps out there, that didn't seem like a strong enough reason for him to want to kill them.

[145] But the circumstantial evidence was overwhelmingly pointing at Mike being the guy.

[146] You have the fact that he's this violent guy with a history of domestic abuse.

[147] He knows this area well where both crimes were committed.

[148] You have the tube sock tied around Diana the same way it's tied around Ruth.

[149] It just had to be Mike.

[150] And so because the police felt so strongly it had to be Mike, they were willing to overlook these lingering questions.

[151] And so the police wanted to issue an arrest warrant for Mike, but they needed to be able to prove he was alive.

[152] Because if he was dead, then that calls into question his ability to have committed these two crimes.

[153] And so they didn't have proof he was alive.

[154] And so very quickly, this story faded out of the headlines because basically everybody believed Mike had done it and he had run off somewhere and maybe someday we'll figure out where he went and we'll bring him to justice.

[155] But until then, we know he's the guy.

[156] For years, no one heard from Mike, no one saw Mike.

[157] It was like he had just totally vanished.

[158] Crystal was raised by relatives, and many of the detectives that were working on these cases eventually retired or moved on.

[159] Then, 25 years later, in March of 2011, a hiker was walking through the forest near the Nisquale River, about one mile from where Diana's body was found, and they would stumble upon a piece of a human skull.

[160] She calls the police, police show up, they search the area, and they discover another bone, a human jaw bone, and it would turn out it was Mike's.

[161] The rest of Mike's remains were never found, and because there was so little of him to work with, police were not able to determine a cause of death.

[162] However, they were able to date his death back to almost exactly the same time frame that Diana had died.

[163] Additionally, investigators believe the reason they did not find more of Mike's remains is because he had been buried.

[164] The two bones that were found, the skull and the jaw bone, they were located within one mile of where Diana's body had been found, and that area, after Diana had been found, had been scoured, they looked everywhere for clues, and because he apparently died at the same time she did, he would have been out there and they would have found him.

[165] So the fact that they didn't find him can only mean he was underground.

[166] So this all meant, Mike could not have been the killer.

[167] Because in order for him to have been the killer, he not only would have had to attack Diana and then drive his daughter to the Kmart and then drive back to the forest, he would then need to take his own life, and then also somehow bury himself.

[168] Some of the police officers that had worked that case were still on the police force, and so when they heard this news about Mike not being the killer, they were like, you know, it never really made any sense that he would attack Ruth or Stephen, unless he was a serial killer.

[169] And then it clicked.

[170] They probably were dealing with the serial killer.

[171] It just wasn't Mike.

[172] And their only eyewitness was the toddler, Crystal, who apparently the serial killer could not bring themselves to harm.

[173] And so as a result, Crystal just sat there and watched these horrible things happen to her parents and then probably spent a fair amount of time with the serial killer afterwards because they needed to drive her to the Kmart.

[174] Investigators and her family had tried to get her to give more information about what she had witnessed but all she could say was mommy's in the trees.

[175] And so there are really only two interpretations of what that means.

[176] Either one, she was just stating that her mother was in the forest and that would have been accurate.

[177] Or she's remembering her mother trying to escape a serial killer by climbing up into a tree.

[178] Or maybe even that she was in the tree with her mother as they both were trying to escape a serial killer with a knife.

[179] So when the police have this revelation that Mike was not the killer, that in fact it was probably a serial killer, and we know nothing about this serial killer besides what Crystal had to say as a toddler, and that didn't provide any sort of real clarity on who this person was or what their MO was, they went back and looked at all.

[180] the unsolved murders in the Pacific Northwest specifically around this forest.

[181] They discovered that in addition to Mike and Diana and Ruth and Stephen, there were four other sets of couples that were killed in and around this forest, and all of them bared striking resemblances to one another.

[182] The most recent attack that is associated with the Tubsock killer occurred in 2006, but the reality is police don't really know anything about the Tubsock killer.

[183] All they know is that they're probably in the Pacific Northwest, and they are definitely still at large.

[184] Today, hey all you fans of the Strange, Dark, and Mysterious.

[185] It's me, Mr. Ballin, and today I have some big news.

[186] It's something I'm holding in my hands right now, and so obviously you can't see it, but this is something you're really going to want to see.

[187] It's the first ever official Mr. Ballin publication.

[188] It's a graphic novel, and it's called Mr. Ballin Presents, Strange, Dark, and Mysterious, The Graphic Stories.

[189] It's an anthology of both classic and brand new, terrifying stories that we've never covered on any of my other platforms because we created them specifically for this first book.

[190] Each of these stories in the book are feature -length, Mr. Ballin's stories that really needed to be told visually.

[191] And the artwork in this book is, I mean, I'm looking at it, and it's just absolutely stunning.

[192] So the book is not actually coming out until my birthday this year, October 1st, but you can pre -order it right now at book.

[193] dot ballin studios .com.

[194] Again, that's book .bohlen studios .com.

[195] I'm Dan Taberski.

[196] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[197] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[198] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[199] She's like, I can't.

[200] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[201] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[202] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[203] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[204] Well, you were holding something back.

[205] Intentionally.

[206] Yeah, well, yeah.

[207] No, it's hysteria.

[208] It's all in your head.

[209] It's not physical.

[210] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[211] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[212] Or is it something else entirely?

[213] Something's wrong here.

[214] Something's not right.

[215] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[216] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios.

[217] Hysterical.

[218] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[219] You can binge all episodes of Historic.

[220] early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[221] The next and final story of today's episode is called Where Did He Go?

[222] In mid -August, 2013, Mike and Karen Las Pisa helped their beloved only child, 19 -year -old Bryce Lus Pisa, get all of his things packed up and into the family car.

[223] Bryce had just spent the summer with his parents in their home in Laguna Negal, California, which is one of the nicest places to live in the entire country.

[224] But now that the summer was coming to an end, it was time for Bryce to head back to Sierra College in Rockland, California, where he was set to start his sophomore year.

[225] Once all of his things were packed inside the trunk of the car, all three of them hopped inside and then made the seven -hour drive north to his campus.

[226] Once his parents had moved him into his apartment, they gave him a hug and a kiss and wished him luck, and then they left.

[227] On their ride back home, Mike and Karen talked about how well their son seemed to be doing.

[228] He loved his school, he loved the program he was in, he was in graphic design, he was in graphic design, he was in.

[229] very gifted artist.

[230] He had lots of friends.

[231] He had a wonderful girlfriend.

[232] It just seemed like he was living his best life and he was on the path to success.

[233] So nothing could prepare them for what their son did two weeks later.

[234] Just a couple of days after getting dropped off at school, Bryce's very close friend and roommate, Sean, and Bryce's girlfriend, Kim, noticed Bryce was acting erratically.

[235] Specifically, he was drinking a ton of hard alcohol.

[236] Now, Bryce was no saint.

[237] He liked to drink and party like many other kids his age did, but the amount of alcohol he was consuming was concerning.

[238] Also, Bryce began experimenting with a drug called Vivance, which is a very powerful stimulant that's normally used to treat attention deficit disorder.

[239] Now, Bryce didn't have attention deficit disorder.

[240] He was taking it in order to stay up late at night and play video games.

[241] But between the heavy drinking and the drug use, it seemed like Bryce's personality was starting to change.

[242] He was becoming anxious and skittish and kind of paranoid.

[243] And so finally, Sean and Kim, confronted him about his substance abuse and asked him you know like what's going on what's causing you to act this way and Bryce would say nothing guys I'm fine I'm just you know drinking and doing whatever I want to do it's not a big deal but Sean and Kim they weren't buying it they were convinced that something bad had happened to Bryce and the way he was coping with it was by drinking really heavily and taking this drug on August 28th so about two weeks after Bryce has been dropped back off at school by his parents Bryce and his roommate Sean were alone in their apartment together.

[244] And at some point, as they're sitting there just kind of minding their own business, Bryce says to Sean, hey, I want to give you something.

[245] And he takes his diamond earrings out and he gives them to Sean.

[246] And Sean's looking at these earrings and he's like, you know, didn't your mom give these to you?

[247] Aren't these important to you?

[248] These are expensive.

[249] And Bryce just says, no, I want you to have them.

[250] And so Sean is looking at these earrings, looking back at Bryce, wondering what's going on here.

[251] And then before he can even refuse the gift, Bryce is grabbing his Xbox and putting it on the table and telling Sean, I want you to have this too.

[252] Take my Xbox.

[253] And so Sean is like, I can't accept these two things.

[254] These are expensive.

[255] These are valuable to you.

[256] You know, what's going on here?

[257] But Bryce would just say, look, man, I want you to have these things.

[258] You're important to me and I want to give these to you.

[259] And so as Sean is sitting there wondering how to handle this very strange offering, he watched Bryce pull his phone out and begin really aggressively texting somebody.

[260] And then after a while, Bryce looks up from his phone and he tells Sean, hey, just so you know, I broke up with Kim.

[261] At this point, Sean knows, okay, something is, is definitely wrong here.

[262] There's no reason Bryce would break up with Kim.

[263] They were such a loving couple.

[264] They doted on each other.

[265] They were very close.

[266] They had just seen each other earlier in the day.

[267] Nothing seemed to be wrong.

[268] And so now Bryce is text breaking up with her.

[269] It didn't make any sense.

[270] Plus, Bryce is now trying to give him all these valuable things.

[271] It just wasn't really adding up.

[272] And so Sean decided he needed to get in touch with Bryce's parents because clearly someone needed to intervene.

[273] And so Sean waited until Bryce left.

[274] Bryce left to go talk to Kim.

[275] And at that point, Sean got his phone out and he looked up Bryce's parents and he called them.

[276] Bryce's mother, Karen, she picks up the phone and Sean explains that, you know, your son, he's acting strangely, he's abusing drugs and alcohol, and I wouldn't be doing this unless I thought there was a problem.

[277] Like, I'm not trying to get him in trouble.

[278] I want you to reach out to him and see what's going on because I think there's a problem.

[279] And so Karen was alarmed by this.

[280] She had no idea any of this was going on and she says, okay, you know, I'll reach out to my son.

[281] Thank you for telling me. And so they hang up and before Karen can even call Bryce, Bryce is calling her.

[282] And so Karen answers the phone, but it's not Bryce.

[283] It's Kim, his now ex -girlfriend.

[284] And she says to Karen, hey, I'm sorry to just call you like this, but your son, he just showed up at my apartment and he's acting so strangely that I actually took his keys.

[285] I don't want him to drive.

[286] There's something wrong with him.

[287] That's hard to describe, but he just seems totally off.

[288] And so now Karen's really concerned because just seconds ago, Sean has told her basically the same thing.

[289] And so Karen asked Kim, would you please put my son on the phone?

[290] Bryce picks up the phone and he says, hey mom, and he sounds totally normal.

[291] And she asked him, you know, what's going on?

[292] I keep hearing that you're acting strangely and, you know, what are you doing over at Kim's apartment?

[293] What's going on here?

[294] And Bryce would tell his mom that, look, mom, I just broke up with Kim.

[295] It's a very messy breakup.

[296] That's why she's calling you.

[297] She's upset.

[298] And, you know, that's why I'm over here.

[299] We're talking about it.

[300] And look, at this point, I just really want to go home.

[301] I want to go back to my apartment.

[302] But she has my keys.

[303] Can you please tell her to give me my car keys back so I can leave.

[304] But Karen wasn't really buying it.

[305] She knew her son really well.

[306] it just seemed totally strange that two of his very close friends in his inner circle would say the same thing independent of one another.

[307] And so she says, you know what, Bryce, look, I want you to just stay there and I'm going to fly out there first thing tomorrow morning and I'm going to just see what's going on out there.

[308] And at this, Bryce immediately says, no, mom, I have a lot to talk to you about.

[309] And until I talk to you about it, I don't want you coming out here.

[310] And so Karen's like, what do you mean you have a lot to talk to me about?

[311] What is it that you have to talk to me about?

[312] I don't really understand, but Bryce refused to elaborate over the phone, which Karen thought was very odd because Bryce was remarkably forthcoming with his parents.

[313] They had a very open relationship.

[314] They were very honest with each other.

[315] So for him to not even give a hint at whatever it was that was on his mind that in some way had to do with what was going on here, it just seemed very odd and unnecessarily cryptic.

[316] And so Karen gave up trying to get more information out of her son.

[317] And instead, she put her husband on the phone.

[318] And he asked Bryce, hey, you know, what's going on here?

[319] Are you okay?

[320] and your mom tells me there's some problem like what's going on here and Bryce again just reiterates look dad I just broke up with my girlfriend that's all that's going on here there's no need to be concerned I just need one of you to tell Kim to give me my keys back so I can go back to my apartment that's all I need right now and so Mike felt convinced that his son was totally fine even though it did seem odd that two of his friends had said he was acting erratically but from Mike's perspective Bryce seemed just fine and so he said as much to Karen and thought you know let's just get Kim to give him his keys back and he can go back to his apartment and we can talk to him later about whatever it is that's going on.

[321] And so reluctantly, Karen gets back in the phone and she asked to speak with Kim and she says, hey Kim, would you mind giving our son his keys back?

[322] He'd like to leave.

[323] And so Kim says, okay, I'll give him his keys.

[324] And then they hung up.

[325] And then Kim got the keys out.

[326] She gave him to Bryce and Bryce left.

[327] At about 1130 p .m. that night, Bryce was in his car.

[328] He was getting ready to leave when his mom called him back and said, okay, look, I want you to go home.

[329] But as soon as you get there, just give me a call so I know you're safe.

[330] And Bryce said, no problem, I'll give you a call.

[331] About an hour and a half later, at 1 a .m., Bryce called his mom back to let her know that he was home safe at his apartment, and Karen and Mike are totally relieved, and they tell their son, okay, you know, we'll talk to you tomorrow morning.

[332] 10 hours later, at 11 a .m. on August 29th, Karen received an automated phone call from her car insurance company, letting her know that roadside assistance had been used on their 2003 Toyota Highlander car.

[333] That was Bryce's car.

[334] And so Karen's totally confused because the last she spoke to her son, he was at his apartment.

[335] He was home safe.

[336] He did not have any car problems?

[337] And so she's thinking, you know, did he get up early this morning and get into an accident and call roadside assistance?

[338] Or maybe last night he got into car problems and just didn't tell her about it, but they were minor.

[339] And so she calls Bryce, but Bryce doesn't pick up.

[340] And so she dials his roommate, Sean, does answer the phone and she says hey would you mind putting Bryce on the line but Sean says Bryce isn't here and he didn't come home last night considering the general weirdness around their son's recent behavior this really shocked Karen and Mike at first they thought we need to call the police because something horrible has happened but then they thought well wait a minute let's go into his bank statements because he has a credit card that we gave him and let's see if there's any recent purchases that will allow us to track where he is and so they pull up his bank statements and his most recent charge was only a few hours earlier, and it was at a car repair shop in Buttonwillow, California, which is this small desert town right off of the I -5 highway, located about halfway between his school campus and their hometown in Laguna Nigel.

[341] And so Karen and Mike assume their son last night must not have gone to his apartment, but instead just kept on driving south in an attempt to drive all the way back home to his hometown of Laguna Nigel.

[342] I mean, after all, he did tell his mom he had a lot to talk about and he didn't want to talk about it on the phone.

[343] And so they assumed he must be driving here to talk about whatever it was in person.

[344] And perhaps he ran into some car problems in Button Willow, California.

[345] That's why he pulled over.

[346] That's why there's this charge at this auto repair shop.

[347] And so Karen calls the auto repair shop in Buttonwillow and a man who worked there named Christian answered the phone.

[348] And so Karen asked him, you know, have you seen my son?

[349] He's got red hair.

[350] He's got a tattoo in his arm.

[351] He's driving a 2003 Toyota Highlander.

[352] And Christian says, oh yeah, yeah, we saw him a couple of hours ago, we responded to his roadside assistance call.

[353] He ran out of gas on the I -5 highway.

[354] He pulled into a rest stop and we drove to that rest stop and we gave him gas.

[355] And so Karen asked Christian, you know, did my son indicate where he was going next?

[356] And Christian said, no, he didn't.

[357] We just gave him the gas and then we left.

[358] But if you'd like, I'd be more than happy to just drive over to the rest stop.

[359] It's only about 15 minutes away and see if he's still there.

[360] It's unlikely because it's been a couple of hours, but you know, maybe.

[361] And Karen and Mike are like, oh my gosh, Thank you so much.

[362] Would you do that?

[363] That would be great.

[364] And so Christian hops in his car and he drives the 15 minutes over to this rest stop.

[365] And he's not really expecting to see Bryce in this parking lot.

[366] It had been almost three hours.

[367] But he pulls into the lot and there is the 2003 Toyota Highlander with Bryce sitting inside of it.

[368] He's just sitting behind the wheel staring out into nothingness.

[369] And so Christian walks up to the driver's side and he looks down to get Bryce's attention.

[370] And Bryce kind of snaps out of it and looks up and he's surprised to see Christian again.

[371] he rolls the window down and Christian says to him, hey, I just talk to your parents.

[372] They're really concerned about you.

[373] You got to talk to him.

[374] And so Christian actually pulls out his phone and he calls Karen and says, hey, he is still here.

[375] Here he is.

[376] And he hands the phone to Bryce.

[377] And as soon as Bryce puts the phone to his ear and he says, hello, Karen's like, what are you doing?

[378] What are you doing just sitting in this restop in the middle of Buttonwill of California?

[379] We're so worried about you.

[380] And Bryce didn't really have an answer.

[381] He just kept telling his mom, I'm not doing anything.

[382] I'm just sitting here.

[383] And so finally, his mom stops trying to get information from him and just says, look, please just fill your car up with gas and come straight home, please.

[384] And Bryce says, okay, yeah, that's what I'll do.

[385] I'll do that right now.

[386] And so Bryce hands the phone back to Christian.

[387] Christian pulls it up to his ear and he says, hey, Karen, it looks like he's leaving now, so I'm going to take off.

[388] Karen thanks him and they hang up.

[389] Christian goes back into his car.

[390] He leaves the lot and as he's driving, he looks over at Bryce and it didn't really look like Bryce was getting ready to leave.

[391] It looked like he had just gone back to sitting and blankly staring out of his car.

[392] But Christian figured, you know what?

[393] He just talked to his mom.

[394] He said he was going to go home.

[395] I'm sure that's what he's going to do.

[396] The drive from Buttonwillow, California, south to Laguna Nigel, California, where Bryce's parents were, was about a three -hour trip.

[397] And so the Los Pizos were expecting their son to arrive around 3 p .m. By 3 .30 p .m., when he still hadn't shown up and he still hadn't called, Karen began calling her son, but he wasn't answering the phone.

[398] And as much as Karen and Mike wanted to believe their son had just gotten stuck in traffic or something like that, they knew deep down something was wrong.

[399] Something was off about his behavior.

[400] They just didn't understand what it was.

[401] For the next several hours, they continuously tried calling their son, and he never answered the phone.

[402] And so finally, by 6 p .m. that night, when he still hadn't shown up and they still couldn't get in touch with them, they called the police and they filed an official missing person report.

[403] The police began their search by contacting Bryce's cell phone provider, AT &T, and they asked them to use their cell phone towers to ping Bryce's cell phone, basically triangulate where his phone is located.

[404] And once they did that and they have the actual location of his phone, the police and Bryce's parents were shocked at where it was.

[405] It was still in Buttonwillow, California.

[406] It was located just a couple of miles down the road from that rest stop where Christian had last seen Bryce.

[407] It was now in this parking lot of this hotel.

[408] And so the police around Buttonwillow were alerted to the fact that Bryce was a missing person and his phone was apparently in this parking lot.

[409] And so police were sent over there to see if Bryce was there too.

[410] And so the police arrive in this hotel parking lot and sure enough, right in the middle is the 2003 Toyota Highlander with Bryce sitting behind the wheel just sitting there staring out the front.

[411] And so an officer walks up and he knocks on the glass and Bryce rolls the window down.

[412] And the officer would say Bryce acted totally normally.

[413] He was friendly.

[414] He was lucid.

[415] He answered all their questions.

[416] When he got out of the car and they conducted field sobriety tests, he passed all of them.

[417] He even said, hey, if you want to search my car, go for it.

[418] I'm not doing anything out here.

[419] And so the officers did search his car and there were no drugs, no alcohol, there was nothing suspicious in his car.

[420] And when they asked him, you know, what are you doing out here?

[421] Your parents are so concerned about you.

[422] And Bryce would tell them that he was just sitting there.

[423] He didn't really have much of an answer, but he told them he planned on going home soon.

[424] And so one of the officers said to him, hey, you really need to call your mom.

[425] You need to call home and let them know that you're okay.

[426] And when they told him to do that, Bryce suddenly became really apprehensive, like he did not want to call home, and the officer picked up on it.

[427] And he said, hey, you've got to tell your family what's going on.

[428] They're the reason we're out here.

[429] They're concerned about you.

[430] So get out your phone and dial your mom.

[431] And so Bryce reluctantly pulled his phone out.

[432] He dialed his mother's number and he hit call.

[433] And the officer said, give me the phone.

[434] So Bryce hands over the phone.

[435] The officer picks it up.

[436] Karen answers the phone.

[437] And the officer tells her, hey, look, I'm with your son.

[438] He's just fine.

[439] He's sober.

[440] There's no drugs.

[441] There's no alcohol.

[442] I don't really know what he's doing, but he says he's going to go home pretty soon, but there's nothing wrong about the situation that I can tell.

[443] You need to talk to your son and figure out what's going on.

[444] And so he hands the phone over to Bryce.

[445] Bryce picks it up.

[446] And Karen says to him, what's going on?

[447] Why are you still in Buttonwillow?

[448] It's been like nine hours.

[449] And Bryce really didn't give her an answer to any of her questions.

[450] He just kind deflected all of them and said he'd be home soon and don't worry about it.

[451] I'm just sitting here.

[452] There's son.

[453] She could tell that, again, he was not going to tell her what's going on.

[454] And so she changed her tactic, and she told her son very gently, Bryce, please just go get a bite to eat, get a cup of coffee, kind of get yourself together here, and then please just drive home.

[455] It's only a few hours away.

[456] Drive home and we can talk about whatever problems you have, but you just got to drive home.

[457] You've got to leave Buttonwillow.

[458] You've got to come home.

[459] And at this, Bryce says to his mom, you know what?

[460] Okay, I'm sorry.

[461] I'll be home in a few hours.

[462] And so they hang up and the officer who was kind of eavesdropping intentionally on this conversation to make sure everything was fine, the officer was satisfied, that everything was fine, that Bryce was sober, that he would head home.

[463] And so he says, okay, Bryce, you know, best luck, head home to your parents, and the officer left.

[464] An hour later, Karen received a call from Christian, the car repair man who had checked on Bryce earlier, and he was actually returning one of Karen's calls.

[465] She'd called him sometime, and he didn't get back to her.

[466] And so he was calling back, and he wanted to know, you know, had Bryce made at home safely because now it's been several hours from when he saw him last.

[467] And Karen would tell Christian, actually, no, after you left, my son did not leave Buttonwillow.

[468] He just went down the road to a parking lot, but, you know, the police actually were just over there that checked on him, and now I'm certain he's making his way home.

[469] Christian, who felt kind of invested in what was happening with Bryce, would say to Karen, hey, I don't mind driving over there and just confirming he has left this parking lot.

[470] But Karen would say, you know what, I'm confident.

[471] He's on his way.

[472] Don't worry about it.

[473] You're too kind.

[474] So they hang up.

[475] up, and afterwards, Christian, even though he didn't have to, he decides, I'm going to go over there and make sure Bryce really has left, because obviously something strange is going on here.

[476] And, you know, if there is some problem, maybe I can assist.

[477] And so he drives over to this hotel parking lot, and he really was not expecting to see Bryce there.

[478] But he pulls into the lot and who's still in the middle of the lot, but Bryce, in his 2003 Toyota Highlander, just staring out the front of his car.

[479] And so this time, Christian pulls up right next to him, he parks the car, he walks right up to the window, and he's a little bit more forceful, friendly, but forceful with Bryce.

[480] He hasn't rolled the window down, and Bryce obviously is very surprised to see Christian again.

[481] It's the third time he's seen this car repairman.

[482] And Christian says to him, hey, Price, you need to go home.

[483] Your parents are so worried about you.

[484] You need to leave right now.

[485] In fact, I'm going to watch you leave, and then I'm going to follow you onto the highway to make sure you're going home.

[486] And so Bryce was a little bit taken aback at how forceful he was being, but he would ultimately say, okay, yeah, all right, let's leave.

[487] And so Christian gets back in his car and he goes right behind Bryce, and after a few seconds, Bryce pulls out of the lot, and he starts driving onto the road, and Christian follows him.

[488] And for the next hour, Christian would just remain behind Bryce and watch him drive towards Laguna Nigel.

[489] And while he was driving, Christian would actually call Karen and Mike back.

[490] And he would say to them that, you know, your son had not left, but now he's good.

[491] He's on the highway.

[492] I'm right behind him.

[493] He'll be home soon.

[494] And so when Christian and Bryce made it to the last leg on the way to Laguna Nigel, Christian was confident that Bryce was fine and he would get home under his own steam.

[495] He wasn't driving erratically.

[496] Everything seemed normal.

[497] And so Christian pulled up alongside Bryce.

[498] He kind of waved to him to say, you know, I'm leaving, and then he turned around and he headed back to Button Willow.

[499] Shortly after this, Karen called Bryce.

[500] Bryce picked up the phone.

[501] He's still driving.

[502] And Karen tells him, okay, you're going to give me landmarks of the things you're seeing as you're driving so that I know you're actually driving home.

[503] But Bryce refused to give them to her.

[504] He would say, oh, I can't see anything out my window, it's too dark, and I don't know where anything is.

[505] And so despite Karen and Mike getting so frustrated with him saying, come on, tell us something, give us a sign, a road sign, anything, tell us anything around you.

[506] But Bryce didn't give them any information.

[507] And so finally, at about 2 a .m., when Bryce really should have been in Laguna Nigel or very close, he tells his parents over the phone that he's too tired to continue and he needs to pull over and take a nap.

[508] At first, his parents urged him to just keep on going.

[509] Come home, you can sleep as long as you want when you get here.

[510] But as they were saying it, they realized their son had been awake for nearly 24 hours at this point, and it's the middle of the night, so it does kind of make sense for him to pull over and take a nap.

[511] And so they say, okay, pull over, but as soon as you wake up, you need to call us so we know you're back on the road.

[512] So Bryce says, no problem, I'll do that.

[513] And they hang up.

[514] Several hours later, at 8 a .m., Karen and Mike have still not heard from their son, and they're telling themselves that he's probably just sleeping, he's totally exhausted, I'm sure he's fine, and then they hear their doorbell ring.

[515] And they're immediately so relieved because they're thinking, Bryce is here.

[516] He's finally arrived, thank goodness, they run to the door, they open it up, and it's not Bryce, it's a police officer.

[517] And the officer asked them, do you own a 2003 Toyota Highlander car?

[518] And so Mike and Karen's heart sank and they say, yes, our son Bryce drives that car.

[519] The officer told them that the car had been located a few hours earlier at the bottom of a 25 -foot cliff near Castaic Lake.

[520] Castaic Lake is about halfway between Buttonwillow and Laguna Nigel.

[521] They told the parents that there was no sign of a driver.

[522] Bryce was not there.

[523] They did find two small drops of blood inside the vehicle, but beyond that, there was no indication that Bryce had sustained life -threatening injuries from this crash.

[524] They said the back window of the vehicle had been broken from the inside, indicating that Bryce had escaped the wreck by punching out that window.

[525] His laptop and phone were still in the vehicle, and his wallet and duffel bag were outside the vehicle on the road and looked like they had been rummaged through before they were left there.

[526] After an examination of the damage to the car, the final tire tracks that led down to where it had been found, and traffic cameras in the area, it was concluded that Bryce had actually intentionally driven off this cliff and he had actually hit the accelerator right before he went over the edge.

[527] After Mike and Karen headed out to the crash scene and had a chance to talk to some of the investigators that had been looking for Bryce, They informed the parents that most likely what they were looking at with this crash was a failed suicide attempt.

[528] But Mike and Karen, they just couldn't buy that.

[529] That was not like their son.

[530] And just two weeks earlier when they dropped him off, he was happy, he was excited to be at school, he was talking about the future, he was not someone that was suicidal.

[531] And so what situation could he have possibly gotten himself into in just those two weeks that was so bad it would lead to something like this?

[532] It made investigators and the parents parents wonder, you know, was Bryce hiding something?

[533] What did he mean when he said he had a lot to talk about?

[534] Did that have something to do with this thing he was hiding?

[535] A huge search was launched in and around the area where the car had been found with hundreds of people on horseback, on ATV, on foot, there were helicopters in the air, they put divers in the lake.

[536] I mean, they looked everywhere for days and days and days, but nothing was found of Bryce.

[537] On the ninth day of the search, they brought a bloodhound out to see if it could pick up Bryce's scent.

[538] And sure enough, it did right at the crash site.

[539] And the dog followed the scent all the way down to the lake.

[540] It walked around the lake to this bridge, was actually a dam that went across the lake.

[541] It followed his scent right across the bridge to the other side.

[542] And then it kept on following it up this small access road until it reached a truck stop.

[543] And then a scent just stopped.

[544] And so police and the parents and everyone involved in this investigation was really surprised at this discovery.

[545] And so police got another bloodhound a separate bloodhound, they brought it out to see if it could do the same thing, to prove that this really was his scent trail.

[546] And sure enough, the bloodhound picked up his scent.

[547] It went down to the lake, it went around, to the bridge, went over, went to the truck stop, and then it just stopped.

[548] But after the scent trail was discovered, there was no other leads for anyone to follow.

[549] And so after three weeks of looking everywhere for Bryce, the search was called off.

[550] Some say Bryce was suicidal.

[551] That's why he drove off the cliff.

[552] That was a suicide attempt.

[553] and despite the bloodhounds picking up his scent, Bryce was most likely in the lake somewhere.

[554] Others disagree and say Bryce is still alive, that after this crash, he gets out of the car and he walks down to the lake, he walks around to that bridge, he goes up to the truck stop, and then he hitches a ride with someone and vanishes, and now he's living off the grid somewhere.

[555] And still others believe Bryce's drug and alcohol use caused a psychotic break, and that was what was causing all this strange behavior, and that was what led him to drive off the cliff, and perhaps when when he landed, he sustained a vicious head wound that caused him to forget who he was, and so now he's just kind of wandering around somewhere not knowing who he is or knowing that he's a missing person.

[556] As for his parents, they say he would never do this on purpose.

[557] He would never cause this much pain to the people that love him, and so he must have been a victim of foul play.

[558] But regardless of what you believe happened to Bryce, something happened to him, and it's probably connected to whatever it was, he said he needed to talk to his mom about, that thing that he couldn't discussed on the phone that potentially he was trying to drive home to talk to his mom and dad in person about.

[559] But unless we find Bryce and he's still alive, it's unlikely we'll ever know what it was.

[560] Since August 30th, 2013, when Bryce went missing, no one has heard from him and no one has seen him.

[561] Thank you for listening to the Mr. Ballin podcast.

[562] If you got something out of this episode and you haven't done this already, please ask the five -star review button to go for a walk with you in northeastern Australia and push them into a gimpy -gimpy plant.

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[576] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[577] She had been under the influence and she left him there.

[578] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[579] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[580] What happens next?

[581] Depends on who you ask.

[582] Was it a crime of passion?

[583] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[584] This was clearly an intentional act.

[585] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[586] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[587] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[588] Everyone had an opinion.

[589] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[590] To end in a mistrial, it's just a, confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[591] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[592] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[593] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.