72 Hours Inside Biden’s Campaign to Save His Candidacy

[0] From New York Times, I'm Michael Bobo.

[1] This is the Daily.

[2] For the past three days, Joe Biden has fought to save his reelection campaign as panicked congressional Democrats returned to Washington and openly debated whether to call on him to step aside.

[3] Today.

[4] My colleagues in Washington go inside the 72 hours that could make or break Biden's nomination.

[5] It's Thursday, July 11th.

[6] As the sun rose on Monday morning, President Biden's nomination was already under siege.

[7] CBS News learned today at least four more top Democratic congressmen are urging the president to step aside.

[8] Over the weekend, despite Biden's repeated claims that he would not drop out of the race, a handful of senior House Democrats said that they thought he needed to end his candidacy during a conference call that quickly leaked out.

[9] Congressman Jerry Nadler told his colleagues that it's time for a new nominee.

[10] One of them, Representative Adam Smith, the top Democrat on the House Armed Services Committee, went public on CNN and joined a small but growing list of sitting Democratic lawmakers saying publicly that Biden had to go.

[11] Where are you on this issue?

[12] What's your message to President Biden and to your fellow Democrats?

[13] Well, look, I think he should step aside.

[14] I think it's become clear that our colleagues at the Times were privately talking with congressional Democrats who had stayed quiet.

[15] And they told us that a resounding number of those Democrats wanted Biden out.

[16] One of them estimated that in all his communication with lawmakers and their aides, it was about nine to one against Biden.

[17] So Monday morning was supposed to be a reset, but it didn't offer much relief.

[18] It was a terrible night, and I really regret it happened.

[19] Age, age wasn't, you know.

[20] Biden went on a pretty sympathetic TV show, Morning Joe, on MSNBC, but the questions were anything but gentle.

[21] Have you been tested for any age -related illnesses, pre -Parkinsons, or anything like that, that might explain sort of having a night like that where you couldn't finish sentences?

[22] And his performance was pretty wobbly.

[23] And the folks out there in the local, you know, race, you know.

[24] Close listeners could hear him shuffling papers and seeming to read from notes.

[25] I'm not going to share people's names from here.

[26] But the president, I can tell you, has seen a neurologist three times.

[27] And at the White House, there was an ugly press conference in which reporters and Biden's press secretary argued over the disclosure of visits from a doctor who specializes in Parkinson's disease.

[28] It's a very basic direct question.

[29] which sparked a new round of negative headlines.

[30] Guys, hold on a second.

[31] There's no reason to get back and go back and forth and be in this aggressive way.

[32] What are you missed around here about how information's been shared with the press board about here?

[33] What do you miss about?

[34] What do you miss about?

[35] Everything he just asked about.

[36] And then every time I come back and I answer the question that you guys asked.

[37] It was not a good day for Joe Biden.

[38] But this one thing becomes the exception.

[39] It's this letter to congressional Democrats that the president sent just as they were gathering at the Capitol for the first time in weeks.

[40] Yeah.

[41] The president sent this letter specifically to tell them he is not leaving the race and that they should stop, in effect, speculating about it.

[42] I spoke to my colleague, Chief White House correspondent, Peter Baker, shortly after the letter came out on Monday.

[43] This letter says to them, pay attention to what I'm saying.

[44] I'm not getting out.

[45] I'm in it to win.

[46] Get over it in effect.

[47] He writes, quote, the question of how to move forward has been well aired for over a week now.

[48] And it's time for it to end.

[49] We have one job, and that is to beat Donald Trump.

[50] And that's the point, right?

[51] Is he saying, I've heard you.

[52] And I'm not going to get out.

[53] So if you don't stop talking about me getting out, you're going to make it harder for us to defeat Donald Trump.

[54] Right.

[55] He's saying, in essence, you can't have this debate anymore because this debate, it undermines my chances.

[56] Exactly.

[57] And therefore, I want you to shut up.

[58] This question is over.

[59] Knock it off.

[60] Move on.

[61] And I think he's daring them.

[62] He's daring his doubters and naysayers to come after him or to shut up.

[63] You want to take me on?

[64] Take me on.

[65] Right.

[66] It's the old saying, right?

[67] If you're going to shoot at the king, you better not miss. So all eyes right now are on congressional Democrats to see where they fall this week.

[68] Do the floodgates open and they end up abandoning him in large numbers or do they decide to give up on that notion?

[69] And that's the big question, right?

[70] That may determine whether Joe Biden at the end of this week is still the party nominate.

[71] Is everyone circling the wagon?

[72] Are you all behind your riding?

[73] Hey, this is Katie Edmondson.

[74] It is Tuesday morning, a little after 9 a .m. And like a few dozen other reporters, I am standing outside the National Democratic Club on a very humid 90 degree Washington morning because Democratic lawmakers are meeting inside, trying to figure out whether President Biden has a viable path forward to run for reelection.

[75] And there have been a number of efforts to keep this meeting under lock and key.

[76] Of course, that's easier sit than done when you have 200 plus people in a room.

[77] Among those 200 people are some prominent Black and Latino House Democrats who Biden had spent the past few days aggressively courting ahead of this meeting.

[78] And the theory is that if they spoke up for Biden in this room, it would be harder for everyone else to speak against him.

[79] We're seeing some members stream in late into the meeting now, and we will all be anxiously waiting to hear what they determined when they leave.

[80] An hour passed, two hours passed.

[81] I'm getting a text from one member.

[82] Says the meeting's still going.

[83] Four or five speakers so far.

[84] No consensus.

[85] A small trickle of lawmakers left the meeting early, deflecting questions from reporters as they walked by.

[86] And then finally, there's a stream of lawmakers.

[87] The meeting is over.

[88] Do you have concerns about the president's ability to want?

[89] No comment.

[90] Some were tight -lipped.

[91] A lot of people expressed concerns about Biden.

[92] I'll let you know when I got something.

[93] Is there a consensus?

[94] Is there a consensus?

[95] For those who did talk, there was no clear consensus.

[96] Congresswoman, how was the meeting this morning?

[97] Meeting's good.

[98] Some praised the meeting?

[99] Wonderful meeting.

[100] Some did not.

[101] Congressman, can you just describe the mood in the room amongst members this morning?

[102] Very nice.

[103] Very nasty.

[104] Later, some would paint the mood inside the meeting as really bleak, but outside, many just stared grimly and silently ahead as reporters peppered them with questions.

[105] Are you still supporting the president?

[106] Some rallied behind President Biden.

[107] I mean, you talk about his age.

[108] I mean, 80's the new 60, right?

[109] I've always supported the president.

[110] I still support the president.

[111] And your position won't change?

[112] Never.

[113] No, I think this is a circular firing squad.

[114] It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen.

[115] Instead of taking it to the criminal, we're taking it to the good guys.

[116] It's ridiculous.

[117] Joe Biden is, will be, and should be our nominee.

[118] And if you would give me space so I can call my staff, and please cease asking me questions.

[119] Some of the Democrats held the same views that they had before the meeting, like Congressman Lloyd Doggett, the first Democrat to come out and ask Biden to step down as nominee.

[120] He is a great man who's made a great contribution to the country, but he shouldn't leave a legacy that...

[121] endangers us that we surrender to a tyrant.

[122] Others just backtracked.

[123] Representative Jerry Nadler, one of the senior House Democrats who had come out against Biden on that leaked conference call, started to basically reverse course.

[124] He is the person who's going to do it.

[125] He's going to be a nominee.

[126] What changed your mind then?

[127] Again, remember, only he can withdraw, he's made it very clear that he won't.

[128] And that's the end of the series.

[129] But you guys, you guys have been very good.

[130] Was there more people saying Biden to step down or more people saying to step down?

[131] If you're riding with Biden, we're riding with Biden.

[132] And Congressman James Clyburn, a key black lawmaker who earlier in the week seemed open to finding another nominee rushed past reporters, repeating, We are riding with Biden.

[133] We are riding with Biden.

[134] We are riding with Biden.

[135] Was there a conversation about vice president?

[136] Nine times.

[137] You're riding by.

[138] Right in with body.

[139] From everyone in the room.

[140] Right in with body.

[141] Do you still support the idea?

[142] Right in with body.

[143] But it seemed the only real consensus was that there was no consensus.

[144] In fact, one House Democrat coming out of the meeting was asked if Democrats are all on the same page, and his response was, we're not even in the same book.

[145] So for right now, we really do not see an answer emerging to the question that everyone wants to know, which is will Democrats stay united behind Biden?

[146] A couple of hours later, it was Senate Democrats' turn to talk about Biden's future.

[147] They convened for a weekly luncheon, and the space just outside where they gathered was once again packed with reporters, including our own.

[148] This is Annie Carney.

[149] It's 12 .54 on Tuesday.

[150] I'm standing outside the Senate lunch.

[151] Annie Carney, Katie Edmondson, and Robert Jimison.

[152] All right.

[153] So this is Robert again.

[154] We are on the Senate side.

[155] This is Katie Edmondson.

[156] It is just before 2 .30 in the Capitol.

[157] And we are standing outside.

[158] The closed door meeting of Senate Democrats who are at their weekly luncheon, there is sort of odd split screen between their private comments and their public comments.

[159] That has been particularly true here in the Senate.

[160] And so we're going to wait to see what they come out and say after this meeting.

[161] But I don't think the expectations are high that there's going to be any major break toward trying to get the president to step down as the party nominee.

[162] It's a good discussion, good discussion.

[163] Was there anything?

[164] Good discussion.

[165] Good discussion.

[166] That's all.

[167] I have that.

[168] After their luncheon, Senate Democrats trickled out of the room and were reluctant to really say much of anything.

[169] I don't talk about caucuses under any circumstances.

[170] No, I'm not going to be a new source.

[171] You want to know what I ate?

[172] No. How do you personally feel coming out of that?

[173] We've got a ways to go.

[174] But, you know, we're not going to negotiate out in public.

[175] It was destructive.

[176] With their consensus?

[177] Constructive.

[178] Constructive?

[179] Very constructive.

[180] I think it was.

[181] I think that's all I'm going to say.

[182] They rehearsed these lines.

[183] But in the few things that they did say, it was clear that the senators weren't going to go any further toward pushing Biden out.

[184] I still stand by the statement.

[185] Take Senator John Tester of Montana, for instance, who is locked in a tight reelection battle this fall.

[186] A week ago, he issued a statement saying, quote, President Biden has got to prove to the American people, including me, that he's up to the job for another four years.

[187] That means that you think that he should drop out?

[188] I have not spoken to President.

[189] Should he drop out?

[190] And the statement is what am I given that place.

[191] Give it back.

[192] He refused to budge or in any way elaborate that position.

[193] That is Joe Biden, the candidate that can beat Trump?

[194] Joe Biden is the Democratic candidate, and he has my support.

[195] He's said unequivocally and emphatically that he intends to be the candidate, and I think he will continue to have my support and the support of a lot of people in that room.

[196] And so what you had were a bunch of Democratic senators pledging their loyalty to Biden in this pretty tepid way.

[197] They weren't making an affirmative case for him.

[198] They were saying, we're going to stick with him.

[199] All right.

[200] Now, this week, Senate Democrats intend to pick up where we left off in June.

[201] And that was really summed up by the Senate Majority Leader, Chuck Schumer, one of really just a handful of Democrats who could change this debate.

[202] He was asked about Biden at a news conference.

[203] Are you confident that President Biden has what it takes to win in November and serve the next four years?

[204] As I've said before, I'm with Joe.

[205] Senator Schumer.

[206] And he affirmed his support for Biden every time almost as a reflex.

[207] Is there the ability to throw out the virtual nomination?

[208] As I've said before, I'm with Joe.

[209] Yes, nope, don't yell way in the back, right there.

[210] Over and over again.

[211] Do you agree with her sentiment?

[212] As I've said before, I'm with Joe.

[213] But Senator Schumer, doesn't it leave Democrats in a difficult position?

[214] Okay, it's Katie Edmondson.

[215] It's now Tuesday night approaching 6 p .m. here on Capitol Hill.

[216] And the state of play is basically this.

[217] 72 or so hours after what seemed like the bubbling up of what maybe could become a major democratic rebellion, it feels like President Biden and his campaign have kind of put it down.

[218] Things could still change, right?

[219] It's a very fluid situation.

[220] It really feels like there's a lot of acceptance that's set in of him as the nominee, not because the concerns the Democrats have have been extinguished.

[221] There are still a lot of deep concerns the Democrats privately are happy to discuss, but there just aren't that many of them who are willing to go public with these fears.

[222] And a big data point on that is that the Democratic leaders here on the Hill are solidly behind him.

[223] So right now it feels like the prospect of a full -fledged congressional rebellion of Democrats linking arms and saying, Mr. President, you need to step down, is just not going to happen.

[224] After the break, I speak with a Democratic congressman who has called on Biden to step aside and is becoming increasingly frustrated at colleagues who agree with him but refuse to publicly say so.

[225] We'll be right back.

[226] Representative Smith, good morning, and thank you for taking some time to talk with us today.

[227] We really appreciate it.

[228] Well, thanks to give me the chance.

[229] Adam Smith represents the 9th Congressional District in Washington State.

[230] So I just want to start with a very simple question.

[231] Did you ever think that the Democratic Party would be in the situation that it is in right now?

[232] Well, I try not to place limits on my imagination.

[233] I've seen a lot of things.

[234] People make decisions for a lot of bizarre reasons, and you wind up in places for reasons you wouldn't expect.

[235] So I don't know if I would say I never imagined it.

[236] I will certainly say that I am deeply troubled by it.

[237] Well, let's go there.

[238] I mean, we're talking to you.

[239] And the reason why we are eager to talk to you, of all people, is because you were among the first senior Democrats in Congress, a leader of your party, to come out and say that you thought President Biden should step aside as the party's nominee.

[240] And you did it in a moment when it seemed like his support in Congress might be crumbling.

[241] And that was on Sunday and a little bit into Monday as well.

[242] And obviously a lot has changed since then, which we will get to.

[243] But just to start...

[244] Walk us through, Congressman, how you got to that point where you did feel compelled to say that the Democratic Party needs a new nominee.

[245] Did that start with the debate or did it go back further?

[246] Actually, this goes back a long way.

[247] I could give you the origin story here.

[248] Please.

[249] First thing was, so Joe Biden ran, you know, people like, okay, he's old.

[250] Okay, but damn, you know, he did a good job.

[251] We got there.

[252] And I think there was a certain assumption that he would serve one term.

[253] Now, I've been around this business a long time.

[254] I never bought into that assumption.

[255] People are very reluctant to step away in my experience.

[256] But okay.

[257] So then he moves through it and he's going to run again.

[258] And from the very start, I was concerned about that because of his age.

[259] So, you know, two years ago, I had some conversations like, really?

[260] Are we just, we're just going to roll with the president?

[261] But the thing is, nobody was interested in running against him.

[262] And I had a number of conversations with different people who were having similar thoughts, members of Congress, you know, Politico's other folks.

[263] And the general gist was, look, Joe's done a good job as president.

[264] You know, if we get into a food fight of a primary, there's a risk.

[265] So it's going to be fine.

[266] So nobody decided running against him.

[267] And I said, okay, let's go.

[268] So you're worried, but you made peace with it.

[269] Yeah, I was a little nervous about it.

[270] And then the debate happened.

[271] And two friends of mine texted me, 10 minutes into the debate.

[272] One said, oh my God, are you watching this?

[273] It's a disaster.

[274] And I'm like, yeah, what?

[275] And then another friend of mine just said, SOS.

[276] Come on, Joe.

[277] All right?

[278] And I was like, uh -oh.

[279] So I've watched a lot of debates throughout the years.

[280] And I've seen a lot of bad debates, okay?

[281] Yeah.

[282] The inability to get a coherent sentence out, the inability to find the words was something I had never seen before in a debate.

[283] And I saw how the country reacted to it.

[284] I mean, Donald Trump gave the second worst debate performance in the history of presidential debates.

[285] but nobody paid any attention to it.

[286] It was really bad.

[287] And at that moment, I felt like two things.

[288] One, Joe Biden can, is he not an effective messenger?

[289] And the frustration for me as a Democrat, we got a great message.

[290] Okay.

[291] I've ran when we as Democrats didn't have a great message.

[292] We've got a great message this time.

[293] All right, Joe Biden and the Democrats have delivered during his time as president.

[294] And Donald Trump is an existential threat to the country.

[295] A great message.

[296] And you watch that debate.

[297] And if you're a Democrat, And you're just begging him to fight back, to say something, to get our message out there.

[298] And look, we've got a lot of people out there who can very clearly articulate our message.

[299] But the voters, they're going to look to that top person.

[300] And if that top person can't say it, it's going to hurt in a big way.

[301] So that's what crystallized after the debate.

[302] I called the White House the day after the debate.

[303] What did you say?

[304] I said he's got to get out.

[305] I said it's just that's just where we're at.

[306] Look, I'm, I'm weird.

[307] I kind of say what I think.

[308] I don't believe in like tiptoeing up the things.

[309] Either you're going to say it or you're not.

[310] I said, look, I'm not going to make a snap decision here.

[311] I'll give you guys some space.

[312] I'm not saying anything.

[313] And I kept talking to the White House campaign people throughout that.

[314] And it became clear that, you know, that wasn't going to happen.

[315] And I felt like I got to try.

[316] It's just too important.

[317] And so of the series of options that were in front of me, the only one that made any sense was for me to do whatever I could in my power to get us a different nominee.

[318] I felt like I had no choice but to pursue that avenue.

[319] So that's how I wound up there.

[320] I'm curious what you heard from your constituents after the debate.

[321] Clearly, you come to the conclusion.

[322] Universal panic, okay?

[323] And these are Democrats.

[324] I think our listeners should understand.

[325] You represent a very Democratic district, parts of Seattle.

[326] Everybody was absolutely panicked.

[327] Let me tell you, they didn't have a plan, okay?

[328] It was just, oh, my God, what are we going to do?

[329] because I can't see how the president Biden, who was on that stage, beats Donald Trump.

[330] I mean, that's basically what they were saying.

[331] We can't win.

[332] And what Congressman about your colleagues on the Hill, your Democratic fellow House members, what were you hearing from them after the debate?

[333] Exact same thing with a couple of exceptions.

[334] There's a couple of people who were, ah, it's all fine.

[335] But overwhelmingly, yeah, 90 % of people were the same thing.

[336] I think the difference is, and part of the problem is a lot of members of Congress have personal relationships with the president or with people close to him.

[337] And I think if anything explains why they had more of an initial pause, that's it.

[338] They didn't want to go there that quick.

[339] They have too much respect for the man. And I respect that.

[340] I do.

[341] But your average Democratic voter across the country, it was panic.

[342] So what were you weighing at that point?

[343] Was this a moment at all of soul searching for you as you weighed what to do with these feelings?

[344] You know, you've concluded something has to be done.

[345] Your constituents are clearly concluding something has to be done.

[346] A lot of your colleagues think it sounds like that something has to be done.

[347] But doing something on the order of what it sounds like you're thinking of doing in this moment is not simple.

[348] It's not easy.

[349] It's not polite.

[350] I have always had what I like to refer to as a problem solving mentality.

[351] And I looked at it and said, okay, what are our options here?

[352] If he's our nominee, what's going to happen?

[353] Not going to be good.

[354] Is there an option to not have him be our nominee?

[355] He is the presumptive nominee.

[356] We haven't nominated him yet.

[357] And by the way, for all these people saying, yes, but 14 million people loaded for him.

[358] Let's put those 14 million people in a booth with the ballot in their hand, have them watch that 90 -minute debate, and then let's ask them how they're voting.

[359] Okay?

[360] They have that option.

[361] So it's a different situation.

[362] And I believe that the delegates to our convention have an obligation to pick the person who's going to put them in the best position to win, particularly in this situation.

[363] So I went right to it very quickly.

[364] In your mind...

[365] Did you feel that more and more lawmakers were about to come forward at that moment?

[366] I mean, you said just a few moments ago that, you know, something like 90 % of the colleagues that you've interacted with are just as worried as you are about Biden not being able to win.

[367] Did it feel like momentum was tilting in that direction?

[368] As an observer, I thought that was a very strong possibility.

[369] Yeah, there was a lot of momentum there, but it's a big thing to come out and say what I said.

[370] And, you know, what we've seen really is a whole lot of people who are trying to straddle without going one way or the other.

[371] You know, people talk about how I think there's only seven us who have come out and said he should be removed.

[372] But there's a whole lot of other people who have said, I have concerns.

[373] Okay.

[374] Wonderful.

[375] You know, I didn't elect you to have concerns.

[376] I elected you to make decisions, all right?

[377] And there's a decision to be made here.

[378] But what people are trying to do, I think there's still a large block of people who are like, I just hope he does the right thing.

[379] And does that annoy you?

[380] Is that frustrating for you?

[381] Well, the idea that we are going to slow walk into fascism because we don't want to hurt somebody that we respect feelings.

[382] I cannot even begin to tell you how angry that makes me. Let me just try to translate what I think you're just saying here.

[383] You think that your colleagues are sparing President Biden's feelings.

[384] They don't want to hurt his feelings by calling on him to step down.

[385] And as a result, they are putting themselves on a path to having him lose the election and Trump win.

[386] I think that is a factor.

[387] Let me also say there is a reasonable argument on the other side of this.

[388] I disagree with it.

[389] Okay.

[390] The reasonable argument is there's nothing we can do.

[391] He's gonna run, okay?

[392] There is no way we can get him out of there.

[393] So it doesn't make sense to criticize him in any way.

[394] But I would suggest, for the people who think that, that you have to come up with a better argument than the two that have been trotted out thus far.

[395] Number one is he had a bad night, nothing to see here, everything's fine.

[396] That just doesn't pass the laugh past for most Americans.

[397] Number two is, Look, he's the only guy running.

[398] So I'm with him, and I'm not answering any more of your questions.

[399] You saw that yesterday.

[400] I'm with Joe.

[401] We're riding with Biden.

[402] Well, what do you think about his health?

[403] Do you think he can make through four years?

[404] We're riding with Biden.

[405] I'm with Joe.

[406] That's not going to fly either.

[407] So it sounds like what you're saying is that for many of your colleagues, the decision has come down to the president doesn't want to drop out of the race.

[408] And therefore, what's the point in...

[409] sticking our necks out and asking him to do it.

[410] He doesn't want to do it.

[411] Exactly.

[412] And the other argument is that speaking out as you have hurts President Biden while he's not willing to get out of the race.

[413] So again, what's the point?

[414] And since that Biden letter came out, What we've ended up seeing over the past couple of days is that a lot of your colleagues have gone quiet.

[415] The air in the room has shifted, and the winds seem to be turning to fall in line, don't rebel.

[416] And for some Democrats, what's been striking about that dynamic and about this moment is that it feels, based on everything you've said based on what our colleagues are reporting about the depth of concern among Democrats, it feels to some Democrats like their own party is now engaged in the kind of conduct that they've long accused Republicans.

[417] of engaging in in the Trump era, which is saying one thing in private about their party's leader that they don't approve of him, and then going out in public and saying something different, which is, he has my support, I'm loyal.

[418] Does that analogy ring to you and does it worry you?

[419] A, let me just say, and I say this strongly and with full belief, there is no comparison between what Donald Trump is and what Joe Biden is.

[420] No comparison whatsoever.

[421] I'm asking about the party.

[422] I know what you're asking, and I'm going to get there.

[423] This first point needs to be made.

[424] Joe Biden is a good man who has served his country incredibly well for going on 60 years now.

[425] Donald Trump is a criminal who tried to overthrow this country's government and overturn a legitimate election.

[426] He is convicted.

[427] He is a horrific human being.

[428] All right.

[429] So any effort to compare the two, I find objectionable.

[430] However, to your average voter, yeah, it looks similar in a way that I think undermines our ability to deliver that message that I just delivered.

[431] I mean, how does that leave you feeling?

[432] It makes me frustrated and angry and, frankly, motivated.

[433] You know, I'm not giving up.

[434] You know, until he is the official nominee, I think we've got to look at this from a realistic standpoint.

[435] Well, let me just ask you.

[436] It feels like there are a few possibilities for what happens now.

[437] One is that Biden remains the nominee and he loses, and that's what polling data suggests at the moment could happen.

[438] Trump's leads growing.

[439] And...

[440] In that scenario, your colleagues have kind of put themselves on what could be described as a kind of slow death march toward the election.

[441] And they're handing the election to someone they say as a threat to democracy.

[442] The other possibility is that you're totally wrong.

[443] And that Biden stays on the ticket.

[444] He wins the race.

[445] You were among a handful of doubters who tried to take him out.

[446] And you were just wrong and wrong in an epic historic way.

[447] I want you to just sit with both possibilities for a minute.

[448] Sure.

[449] And let me just tell you one thing.

[450] I'm not wrong.

[451] Okay.

[452] I'm not wrong at all.

[453] It's not debatable at this point that we can do better than Joe Biden for a candidate in the fall.

[454] What is possible is that he could still win.

[455] I'm not going to say he can't win.

[456] What I am saying and what I challenge any sentient being to disagree with me on is...

[457] we would have a better chance of winning, a much better chance of winning, if we had a different candidate at the top of the ticket.

[458] That's my argument.

[459] How vocal...

[460] Do you intend to be?

[461] How far are you going to keep sticking your neck out in a world where the rest of the party is looking at you with a little bit of a stink eye and as a little bit of a lonely anomaly, like a Cassandra standing there, you know, shouting into the wind?

[462] Sure.

[463] First of all, literally hundreds of people have thanked me for doing what I did, all across the board.

[464] People, you know, just across the board.

[465] So, you know, I don't have a problem in terms of a couple people looking at me, a gas.

[466] A lot of people looking at me say, thank God somebody said something.

[467] Okay.

[468] Second of all, as I said earlier, until he is the official nominee of this party, I'm of the opinion that he shouldn't be.

[469] And I'm going to keep doing that.

[470] Once he becomes the official nominee of the party, I'll tell you what I'm going to do.

[471] What I'm going to do is I'm going to say, vote for Joe Biden.

[472] Okay.

[473] He needs to win this election.

[474] So you will fall in line.

[475] At that point, it's not falling in line.

[476] Okay, there are five people on the ballot, all right, and I'm going to support somebody for president.

[477] And not going to be Donald Trump.

[478] It's not going to be whatever crazy stuff RFK Jr. is talking about.

[479] It's not going to be Cornell West.

[480] It's going to be Joe Biden.

[481] Do you think that this debate over the president's candidacy is now over?

[482] Not quite.

[483] No. I'm the guy who keeps looking back going, okay, yeah, I know they're down three touchdowns since mid -fourth quarter, but maybe if they throw a bomb and they fumble the kickoff, you know, so it ain't over until it's over, as they say.

[484] And like I said, it ain't over until he's officially nominated.

[485] Well, Congressman, thank you very much for your time.

[486] We appreciate it.

[487] Thanks.

[488] Thanks for your minutes.

[489] After we spoke with Congressman Smith, an eighth member of the House Democratic Caucus, Representative Pat Ryan of New York, asked Biden to end his campaign.

[490] Soon after, Peter Welch of Vermont became the first U .S. Senator to ask Biden to quit.

[491] Meanwhile, in an interview on Wednesday, an unexpected voice said that he hoped Biden would remain in the race.

[492] Former President Trump.

[493] We'll be right back.

[494] Here's what else you need to know today.

[495] The leaders of NATO have agreed that Ukraine should have an irreversible path to membership in the military alliance and plan to enshrine that commitment in a document to be released this week during a NATO summit in Washington.

[496] The plan is motivated in part by fears of a Trump victory this fall.

[497] Trump openly admires Russian President Vladimir Putin, who ordered the invasion of Ukraine, is skeptical of U .S. military aid to Ukraine, and has repeatedly questioned the point of NATO.

[498] As a result, NATO leaders are trying, in their words, to Trump -proof both NATO and Ukraine's ability to join it.

[499] Today's episode was produced by Lindsay Garrison, Jessica Chung, and Diana Wynne.

[500] It was edited by Paige Cowett, contains original music by Sophia Landman and Dan Powell, and was engineered by Alyssa Moxley.

[501] Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Lansfork of Wonderly.

[502] Special thanks to Katie Rogers, Luke Broadwater, Carl Hulse, Julie Davis, and the rest of our colleagues on the congressional team.

[503] That's it for the Daily.

[504] I'm Michael Bobo.

[505] See you tomorrow.