S1 E1: There Were No Red Flags

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free on Wondery Plus.

[10] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and could be triggering to some.

[11] Please use discretion when listening.

[12] I first heard about Sarah's story for my friend Alyssa.

[13] In June of 2018, I was catapulted into curiosity.

[14] I was shook.

[15] I wanted to know every detail of this bizarre story.

[16] And what I have learned over the past six -plus months has revealed even more than I ever could have expected.

[17] I told Alyssa that night what an incredible podcast I thought this story would make, and she agreed adamantly.

[18] So in mid -July of 2018, Alyssa graciously introduced me to Sarah via text.

[19] Basically, it went, hi, I'm Tiffany.

[20] Want to tell me the most traumatic thing that's ever happened to you and record it and then make it into a podcast?

[21] Also, super nice to meet you.

[22] Thankfully, Alyssa had vouched for me. And Sarah agreed to meet and tell me her story.

[23] and let me record it.

[24] I then couldn't stop thinking about the perspectives of her friends and family, so I spoke with them too.

[25] And all of these interviews led to hours and hours of research and editing and investigating and a pretty decent obsession on my part.

[26] The core of this story is a cautionary tale on why it's important to honor your gut.

[27] I've never heard another story like this one, and I can't emphasize enough how much I admire Sarah's courage and perseverance and bravery in sharing it with all of us.

[28] And I'm still absolutely perplexed by the human dumpster fire, abusive, sociopath douche that she almost married in May of 2018.

[29] For the purposes of this story, I'll be referring to him as dick.

[30] I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong.

[31] the statistics don't know me you don't know me well at home.

[32] The statistics don't lie, the majority of domestic violence in America are acts of emotional and physical violence perpetrated by men on women.

[33] The National Coalition Against Domestic Violence reports one in four women experience severe intimate partner physical violence.

[34] According to the Bureau of Justice, statistics.

[35] In 2005, 1 ,181 women were murdered by an intimate partner.

[36] That is an average of three women every day.

[37] The National Center for Injury Prevention and Control reports women experience about 4 .8 million intimate partner -related physical assaults and rapes every year.

[38] Like the majority of abuse victims, Sarah never imagined finding herself in a traumatic relationship built on lies and control.

[39] Her family and friends share this surprise and conveyed to me time and time again that they just did not see this coming, especially to a woman like Sarah, filled with such wisdom, maturity, and discernment.

[40] This podcast series will take you through the linear development of Sarah and Dick's relationship as she and her loved ones experienced it, an engagement that ended a week before Sarah and Dick were to be married.

[41] When Sarah uncovered truths, she never dreamt any person might discover, let alone herself.

[42] But let's say, start at the beginning.

[43] I asked Sarah's parents, Greg and Rose, her sister, Emily, and her friends, Alyssa and Karen, how they would describe Sarah as a person.

[44] Here's what they said.

[45] Gosh, Sarah, witty, smart, clever, imaginative, faithful, beautiful, inside and out.

[46] She's got a great sense of humor.

[47] Yeah, a great sense of humor.

[48] She's very discerning.

[49] She's gifted in a lot of ways.

[50] She has a gift of gab.

[51] She can write and speak amazingly.

[52] I think she got that from her mother.

[53] No. Didn't get it from me. Maybe a little.

[54] I think she took it right away from me. She got it from you and took it from me. She took it all.

[55] She took all of those things and just kept them.

[56] She's, gosh, for many years, I've actually went to her with questions about life.

[57] It's kind of backwards.

[58] She's always been very discerning and very, that she just has, she's always had wisdom beyond her years, even as a young, young woman, you know, 18, 20.

[59] Just always, always very witty.

[60] She's able to discern an atmosphere in a room and a person very quickly, which is what made this whole relationship surprising that it snuck up like it did, because she can usually size somebody up just walking into a room by the sense that she has.

[61] She is extremely strong.

[62] Geez, like something that you would think would take a lot of people down does not phase her.

[63] I tell people this all the time.

[64] My brother is my mom's favorite.

[65] If he goes a day with $10 in his bank account, she'll be worried about him at the end of the day thinking he'll be found in a ditch starving.

[66] She just, she obsesses over Gregory and loves him to death.

[67] So Gregory is my mom's favorite.

[68] I am my dad's favorite, which is, I don't know why, but it just happened that way.

[69] And Sarah is like mom and dad's trophy kid.

[70] Like, she does everything right.

[71] She's super responsible.

[72] She says really big words.

[73] She's really smart.

[74] She's really pretty.

[75] She's really funny.

[76] She's gone to college.

[77] So if I were to describe Sarah as a person, she's like a trophy person.

[78] If she knows something, she's the type to just go ahead and do it.

[79] She's just very clear.

[80] Like, she's really, like, clear -headed.

[81] Just a heads up on this clip, the audio quality isn't great.

[82] I apologize in advance.

[83] She's hilarious.

[84] Wiseest, most discerning people I know, really obnoxiously wise and discerning.

[85] Like, you want to do something and you know it might not be right, so you maybe don't tell her because she's going to tell you it's not right, and then you're going to feel worse about doing it.

[86] She's just, she's extremely responsible.

[87] She's really quick -witted.

[88] I would say she's definitely a good judge of character, which makes this situation we went through so hard to understand how we got so far into it.

[89] Somebody that's so perceptive, and I'm not talking necessarily about her specifically, but all of us, that because she's so perceptive to get as far down the road as we got, Before the truth came to the surface, it was hard to figure out how we all got that far, let alone her.

[90] My name is Sarah.

[91] I turned 30 in June.

[92] I work as a chiropractic assistant.

[93] My degree's in music, but I didn't want to pay the bills with music, so I chose to do that with administrative work.

[94] That's pretty much what I do.

[95] I current, well, my heart is in Midtown, Sacramento.

[96] I call that my home.

[97] I am staying with my parents in Dixon right now, which is kind of like halfway between Sacramento and San Francisco.

[98] We met online on a dating app called Hinge.

[99] It's really mostly Bay Area people that it's kind of coming up this way.

[100] I feel like maybe sort of like Bumble did.

[101] Honestly, I did it because my co -worker, seriously, I had sworn off online dating because I've got my, I've got stories from online dating.

[102] I was like, I think it works for everybody, but it's just, okay, I went around that mountain and it's not for me kind of thing.

[103] My coworker one day was like, look at this app, you're going to like it purely for aesthetic reasons.

[104] I downloaded it.

[105] I'm like, slick.

[106] It's the colors, everything.

[107] It's very aesthetically pleasing.

[108] So if you're like into, you know, I kind of compare it to like the Apple Music app.

[109] It's not as good as Spotify, but it's prettier.

[110] And that's why I used Hinge.

[111] And I met him the next day.

[112] So the first thing that drew me to his profile, the first thing that he said, you can, you have choices of what questions you want to answer.

[113] Your profile is brief.

[114] You post a few photos.

[115] You can link it to your Instagram if you want and you pick a couple of questions to answer.

[116] And, And based on what you choose to present, that person can like a photo of yours or comment on a photo, then you comment back and it opens up a little chat window and then you guys can connect that way.

[117] So the question he chose to answer was, what are you looking for?

[118] And his answer was a fierce gal after Christ.

[119] And I was like, bold move.

[120] Not everybody posts that right on their profile.

[121] They kind of get to it later.

[122] So I liked that his profile wasn't like vomiting Christianity all over it, but it was bold.

[123] It was, this is what I want.

[124] And, you know, here I am.

[125] thing.

[126] Then he also had a picture of a white French bulldog on the beach.

[127] So I like that.

[128] That was my in.

[129] Oh, and his pictures were great.

[130] I want to talk about like aesthetically pleasing.

[131] I was just sucked in constantly.

[132] He is incredibly talented photography.

[133] He can write really, really well.

[134] And it just, his profile was great, honestly, which sounds, I mean, but kind of in this, I don't know, an online dating.

[135] It means something.

[136] I appreciate it.

[137] He happens to be a designer.

[138] So of course, he takes great photos.

[139] He can write well.

[140] He's got an eye for style and things like that.

[141] So we started messaging and the fact that I love to write and I oftentimes feel like I communicate my thoughts better on paper than I do in person.

[142] So it really does something to my heart when someone else can reciprocate that and they appreciate the little dumb things like the layout of my text, the punctuation I chose, like they can feel my emotion or my humor or my sarcasm just through the text and they can give it back.

[143] So our conversations were just bam, bam, bam, like constantly I'm cracking up, you know, with my Christianity and everything, his, knowledge of the Bible of Scripture really was important to me too.

[144] And he was extremely knowledgeable and very passionate, but not overwhelming.

[145] No, it wasn't just like, okay, can we take a break and talk about something else?

[146] But I liked that he was bold and he knew what he wanted, but I didn't feel pressured at all.

[147] We started messaging on a Thursday, talked consistently all weekend.

[148] He was, he had flown back home to officiate his friend's wedding.

[149] Major points for somebody.

[150] If you find out, oh, your best friend asked you to officiate their wedding.

[151] He was Instagram videoing his parents, which sounds so crazy to say, but in the moment, I kind of liked the veering from the norm because he was at home officiating a wedding.

[152] And we're talking nonstop.

[153] There's this sense of comfortability, even though technically we're strangers, it really didn't feel like it.

[154] And out of nowhere, I'd get this Instagram video and be like, mom, say hi to Sarah.

[155] And he's got this deep, masculine voice.

[156] It was sexy.

[157] And then his mom is, hey, super sweet, bright blue eyes.

[158] Hey, she's laughing.

[159] You can tell she feels kind of uncomfortable, but she's cracking up because her son is putting her on the spot and she's like come visit immediately you're just like oh my gosh it's just a sense of home and banter and stuff like that so and I just thought okay he's got a great relationship with his parents he's got no qualms about being like hey I'm chatting with this girl he's not playing it cool the ego is not coming into you know play here and I get a video you know him embarrassing the heck out of his dad and going oh my gosh get you know get off and he's like come on dad what do you have to say what do you have to say to Sarah what did you what was the first thing out of your mouth when you saw her picture and I said what did he say?

[160] And he goes, I don't, he doesn't want me to tell you.

[161] He feels stupid.

[162] I said, tell me what he said.

[163] And I guess the first thing out of his dad's mouth when he saw my photo was, why didn't you put a ring on it, you jack wagon?

[164] Jack wagon?

[165] Yeah, yeah, he said that.

[166] So I just, I loved the dynamic.

[167] It was fun.

[168] It was really comfortable.

[169] There were no pretences.

[170] You know, he wasn't playing it cool, which made him cool.

[171] Yeah, we clicked on a lot of levels.

[172] And we both kept going, this should be weird, which made me feel better that he knew this should be weird.

[173] That next Wednesday, he showed up at my front door to take me to a concert with VIP tickets and he had dinner in one hand and flowers in the other.

[174] He had asked me dietary restrictions.

[175] His attention to detail was astounding.

[176] He was very, very sweet.

[177] We had no awkwardness either.

[178] What's really crazy is I hate first dates.

[179] I mean, who loves first dates?

[180] That's weird.

[181] But the like the getting to know, you know, your dynamic and sort of how you're going to connect with that person, I dread it.

[182] And I've gone to many a first date, like walking down the steps on my place going this is the last one ever.

[183] This doesn't work out.

[184] I'm done because I can't handle it.

[185] And the second I saw him down the stairs, sitting on the stairs with my food, maybe it was a food, maybe it was the flowers.

[186] But he stands up and he turns around and I was like, hey, stranger.

[187] And he just, hey, like, you always want someone to look at you.

[188] Like, they're kind of like, whoa.

[189] So I just went, he thinks I'm cute.

[190] And we hugged and went inside and I put the flowers in a vase and we went to dinner.

[191] Or we went to the concert and on the way there.

[192] Like, we're laughing the whole time.

[193] I'm eating food in his car.

[194] Like, you get comfortable really fast.

[195] And there was no, there was never that, like, weird, how do we work?

[196] You know, it was natural and comfortable from the very first second.

[197] And it kept blowing my mind consistently.

[198] Conversation never stopped, but it wasn't overwhelming.

[199] It felt natural.

[200] It was easy.

[201] We were cracking up.

[202] I mean, we had a blast at the concert.

[203] There was mostly college age kids there, which just we both have this weird sense of humor.

[204] So I was like, oh, no, I know that person from college.

[205] Run, you know, go over here.

[206] Go over here.

[207] and we talked all night and I went in for the first kiss that night which I never do.

[208] I'm super out of character.

[209] But you were feeling it.

[210] Oh yeah.

[211] What was the concert?

[212] King's kaleidoscope, Christian band.

[213] I had actually heard of them, never really listened to them.

[214] I think he just kind of picked it because it was probably like safe, neutral ground and it was local.

[215] He was from the bay and he never, I don't think he'd ever been to Sack.

[216] So he was just kind of like, what's going on in Sacramento on the next week that I can take her to.

[217] Found a Christian concert.

[218] Got us meet and greet tickets.

[219] So I got to meet them and I was just kind of like, I really should appreciate this more right now, but I've never heard of them before.

[220] So I spent days listening to all their music and seriously, loved it.

[221] It was awesome.

[222] And it was a real privilege to get to meet them.

[223] And he bought me a vinyl of theirs and had them sign it and everything.

[224] And it was a freaking blast.

[225] Amazing first date.

[226] I think the reason we moved so quickly was because there were no walls up.

[227] I'd ask a question that felt like I would get an immediate, very honest, vulnerable, risky answer.

[228] I'm like, okay.

[229] I can take the bad and the good as long as I see all the bad.

[230] And he didn't seem to be holding anything back.

[231] And so I didn't either.

[232] And it was kind of like, well, you want this?

[233] I want this.

[234] You're comfortable?

[235] You good?

[236] Okay.

[237] And that's how things just kind of rolled.

[238] There were no red flags.

[239] Yeah, it was a year ago.

[240] A lot happened in the year.

[241] I'm Dan Tibersky.

[242] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[243] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad.

[244] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[245] She's like, I can't.

[246] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms and spreading fast.

[247] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[248] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the download.

[249] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[250] Well, you were holding something back.

[251] Intentionally.

[252] Yeah, well, yeah.

[253] No, it's hysteria.

[254] It's all in your head.

[255] It's not physical.

[256] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[257] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the Witches of Salem?

[258] Or is it something else entirely?

[259] Something's wrong here.

[260] Something's not right.

[261] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[262] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, hysterical.

[263] Follow hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[264] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondry Plus.

[265] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[266] I'm Sachi Cole.

[267] And I'm Sarah Hagey.

[268] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[269] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King, and no real product to push.

[270] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[271] To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall, fall only seem to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[272] Follow scam influencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[273] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad free right now on Wondry Plus.

[274] Here's Sarah.

[275] I mean, the first week of dating, of course, you know, I'm a lot like my dad.

[276] My dad was like, well, if it's too good to be true, it probably is.

[277] And I just went, you know what, I'm tired of defending because they've never liked anybody of dated.

[278] They've never felt good about them.

[279] There've always been red flags.

[280] Not that they're bad people.

[281] They just weren't right for me. And I've often, you know, my dad's had to say over and over, I do want you to get married, you know, it's not that, you know.

[282] But I said, you know what, this time around, I'm doing it differently.

[283] I'm not going to defend.

[284] I'm not going to explain.

[285] I want you to meet him for yourselves.

[286] I face -timed him super upset.

[287] He could see it on my face and he was like, I had a feeling this was going to happen.

[288] I'm coming right now.

[289] He dropped everything, drove up to Dixon to meet my parents.

[290] We had only hung out in person, like maybe once or twice.

[291] Oh my gosh.

[292] And proceeded to sit at their table.

[293] and answer their questions and hung out and they could see kind of the electricity between the two of us and they were like, oh dear, we got to investigate further.

[294] We really got to know this guy quickly.

[295] So a few days later, they said, oh, we're just going to take him to dinner and get to know him.

[296] Without you?

[297] Yes.

[298] Yes.

[299] I was not happy.

[300] My mom pitched it like, we just want to get to know him, you know, and we're going to take him out.

[301] Don't overthink this.

[302] And I'm like, no, 30 years tells me to overthink this.

[303] He was Johnny on the spot to meet with us, and he didn't mind the interrogating questions.

[304] Like, I was very blunt, you know, what about this and what about that?

[305] What about your previous engagement?

[306] What happened to it?

[307] Like, I don't even know the guy, and I'm, you know, how do you feel about living together before a marriage?

[308] How do you feel about kids?

[309] Where do you want to live?

[310] Like, I thought, I don't care if I embarrass him.

[311] This is my daughter.

[312] And the fact that she was okay with us going was probably embarrassing to her.

[313] but, you know, she honored us in that.

[314] On some levels, he convinced us, but there was one thing that stuck with me that bothered me, and that was why it was the explanation as to why the first engagement got called off.

[315] That bothered me, but I just, it's one of those things that I swept under the rug.

[316] And when I asked him what happened, he just drew this blank, like, the father called it off.

[317] Can you believe it?

[318] I mean, it was almost like, I don't really know why.

[319] And she said he was, they were, he named a denomination that could have seemed kind of radical.

[320] And he said that the father's called it off.

[321] And I said, what reason did he give?

[322] And he said, he said, I was at the devil.

[323] And he said it like, can you believe it?

[324] And he was very clever in that he said no more.

[325] He made it sound like the father was goofy.

[326] He made it sound like the father was nuts.

[327] And he didn't give a lot of explanation.

[328] It was just like, I was stumped too because I'm a new Christian.

[329] And so I didn't understand this.

[330] And I thought, I could picture that.

[331] I could picture, you know, and then I thought, of the devil, that's pretty severe.

[332] I said, why didn't the girl fight for you?

[333] You know, if she's old, if she's marrying age, why didn't she fight with her dad for you or why didn't she come after you?

[334] And he just said, I don't know.

[335] And that kind of stuck with me. But everything else, the fact that he was right there, Johnny on the spot, the fact that he even wanted to pick up the check, which, you know, we're not going on, do we invited him.

[336] but he was very chivalrous.

[337] He didn't seem to hesitate to answer anything we asked.

[338] When I would say, I hope I don't embarrass you, but he'd go, no, no, no, no. And he would, you know, like, I'm an open book.

[339] And we were very impressed with all of that.

[340] I remember walking away thinking he had the right answer for every question we have.

[341] He's either a really, really good liar, or it's just simply the truth.

[342] It's the truth.

[343] It's easy to say.

[344] But he didn't hesitate.

[345] And he had an explanation for everything.

[346] And it was like he knew exactly what questions he could expect to hear and already had good answers for him.

[347] I already knew what I wanted to hear, what we wanted to hear, and it didn't matter what the answer was.

[348] That's what he was going to say.

[349] Every expectation we had, oh, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

[350] We're on the same page.

[351] Yep, I think the same way.

[352] Do not have to worry about that.

[353] That's, I mean, just really, really good what he did, really good.

[354] They grilled him about his past, his intentions with me, his past relationships, and he laid it all out there.

[355] Whatever he said to them that night, my mom walked away and said, I have no red flags.

[356] I approve.

[357] I had never heard those words out of her mouth, ever.

[358] He flew me to several states, not several, three.

[359] I met friends in Washington, friends in Texas and family, and friends in Colorado and family as well, within the span of about two weeks.

[360] It was a whirlwind.

[361] And he paid for all of that.

[362] Yeah.

[363] Oh, yes, he did.

[364] He had a good paying job, and he paid for the tickets.

[365] He managed to be able to pay for something was months in.

[366] It would get to the point where I would sneak up to a register in a store and give that person my card.

[367] And out of nowhere, like he transported himself from one end of the store to the next and was shoving his card in the cashier's hand.

[368] And I would turn out and be like, what are you doing?

[369] Let me buy this thing.

[370] And it kind of became a joke between us.

[371] And he was very uncomfortable the first time that I took him out to dinner.

[372] He got a new job and I took him out to congratulate him and handed him a book and a present.

[373] And paid for everything and he was extremely awkward about it and I loved it.

[374] Everything he can to win her over.

[375] He finds out she likes sushi.

[376] He went to the most expensive place.

[377] It's outrageous in Sacramento and would take her there.

[378] Finds out she likes wine, the most expensive.

[379] Found out that I like coffee and he would buy a particular brand of coffee that was super expensive.

[380] There was no way.

[381] I would keep ordering it, but I loved it.

[382] But he, yeah, spent a lot of money over the first few months.

[383] And there were times where I was like, are you whining and dying me?

[384] Like, come on.

[385] I don't need this.

[386] I really don't.

[387] When we went to Washington, we were in Seattle, I later, he told me he dropped a couple grand that weekend.

[388] That was without flights and everything else.

[389] I mean, he, he knew that my dream car was a black Jeep.

[390] And so he rented us, this massive, all blacked out Jeep and let me drive it everywhere all weekend.

[391] The food, I mean, you know, the way to my heart is food.

[392] He started off well from the very beginning.

[393] And amazing wine had me try these rare whiskies and Colorado was the same.

[394] Texas was the same.

[395] Just constant adventure.

[396] I'm a bit of a realist.

[397] And I kept thinking, this is too good to be true.

[398] This has got to be too good to be true.

[399] He would tell me these stories of past businesses he had owned or like companies he'd started basically and how they had ended and everything.

[400] And I just thought, wow, you've lived a lot of life in your, you know, 30 years.

[401] And he, I mean, things had crashed and burned.

[402] And I thought this, you have a lot of stories that seem very large.

[403] driven life.

[404] A lot of big names, people that you've talked to, apps that you've designed that anybody, you know, has heard of.

[405] And I'm just like, how?

[406] And we'd be sitting at breakfast and this friend would casually name drop, you know, the same line or same, you know, place that I'd heard of or same name.

[407] And I would think in my brain, I would go back over everything else and go, okay, well, that piece of the puzzle is real.

[408] Chill out.

[409] People live like this.

[410] He's lived a lot of life.

[411] And then in Texas, you know, a family member would mention an X and how crazy that was.

[412] And I'd go, okay, he didn't make that up either.

[413] Okay, I need to chill out again.

[414] He has a goddaughter in Colorado.

[415] And this couple just love that I encountered in that.

[416] I mean, this family was, they love well.

[417] We walked in that door and she's from Argentina and just she took my face in her hands.

[418] Called me Saita and she just kissed me. They fed us.

[419] We sat at their table till after 10 o 'clock, sipping wine, talking about life, talking about timelines and kids.

[420] and dreams and we laughed and cried just shared our hearts and their little girl and it was run out super cute loved him to see how well loved he was and just the fact that they had asked him to be you know the godfather of their child my heart is just like oh my gosh you know breaking over all of this so there was a lot packed in that three or four months we travel together spend literally 24 -7 you know multiple days together and the trips to visit his friends and family in Texas and friends and family in Colorado work back to back.

[421] So it was pretty much two weeks straight of exhaustion, flying, driving, meeting different people.

[422] And it was a blast.

[423] He was patient.

[424] He was attentive.

[425] And the biggest thing was that he was consistent.

[426] When he said he was going to do something, he did it.

[427] And he never stopped.

[428] Little things always opened the car door, always had breakfast ready for me. And I didn't ask for these things.

[429] But he knew breakfast was one of my favorite meals of the day.

[430] It was a love language, acts of service.

[431] So he chose to do little things that never, never got dropped.

[432] His aunt even like came out one day and said, you're making breakfast for her again.

[433] You're going to like, you're setting an expectation.

[434] And he goes, I know.

[435] And I came out and I'm like, don't look at me like a princess.

[436] He demands to do this.

[437] Like I love to cook my own breakfast and everybody's looking at me like, wow, you must have it good.

[438] You know, must be nice.

[439] I'm like, well, it is.

[440] I'm not asking for it.

[441] So he was very, very consistent and I kept telling myself you need to calm down.

[442] No one's lying to you.

[443] I hung out with Alyssa at Friendsgiving and he came to that and some of my dearest Midtown Sacramento friends were there.

[444] So it's a big deal for me to bring a guy to this.

[445] I don't bring anybody around and stuff like this and I love these people.

[446] You haven't posted or anything.

[447] No, that's right.

[448] We haven't posted anything on social media.

[449] I didn't want that to be entering into any of it.

[450] I didn't want any pictures.

[451] I didn't want people asking questions.

[452] You know, I just wanted to keep it to ourselves and I knew it was moving fast and I thought, this is nobody else's business.

[453] And once we've, once we're engaged, if it gets to that point, then I will span the whole world.

[454] But until then, you know, I'm protecting it.

[455] So yeah, bringing them to Friendsgiving was huge.

[456] My heart was pounding.

[457] But it went great from my perspective anyway.

[458] Oh, from mine as well.

[459] Yeah.

[460] Here's Sarah's longtime friend, Alyssa.

[461] He was really nice and cool.

[462] And he and my husband like totally hit it off.

[463] They were talking about apps and, and, The tech industry and photography.

[464] He was just a very charismatic, personable guy.

[465] So it was easy for me. He seems cool.

[466] They weren't engaged, but they were talking about getting engaged as inevitable.

[467] And they were talking about, like, the ring and how they wanted to get married really quick.

[468] That seemed like both of them.

[469] Oh, yeah.

[470] Uh -huh.

[471] Like equal.

[472] Yeah.

[473] Which wasn't really surprising to me because I have always thought that, like, when Sarah finds her guy, it's going to go like that.

[474] I've always thought that about her.

[475] I don't really know why.

[476] So when she brought him and it was all of a sudden, like, I've been seeing him for two months or whatever, but like he's, he's the one and we're going to get married.

[477] I'm like, yeah, this sounds like how I thought this was going to go for you.

[478] I've seen like older pictures of him, like when he was like quite a bit heavier.

[479] And he was like way, way slimmed down when I met him.

[480] Probably at his like peak physical, whatever.

[481] And he had like a sleeve tattoo and like a beard.

[482] Yeah.

[483] So I mean, I thought like he was an attractive.

[484] Attractive guy.

[485] Yeah, he had a beard.

[486] Mm -hmm.

[487] He had a beard and a sleeve tattoo?

[488] Yeah, totally.

[489] Nobody's on Sarah's level, like, um, but they looked great together.

[490] Yeah, they were a great -looking couple.

[491] So he's, like, not only kind and charismatic, but he's also pretty good -looking.

[492] Yeah.

[493] Having Sarah next to you makes you look more attractive.

[494] Do you know what I mean?

[495] Yeah.

[496] For sure.

[497] The next big hurdle was my sister.

[498] She is notorious for never being wrong about predicting.

[499] outcomes of her friend's relationships.

[500] And it's not like a pride thing.

[501] She just, she'll make a quick snap decision and, you know, and judging someone.

[502] But she's almost never wrong.

[503] And she's, again, never been a big fan of any of my relationships.

[504] And he spent Christmas with our family, which is a big deal.

[505] And to let an outsider in, you know, on that few days, like that sacred, you know, couple days was huge.

[506] And that was the weekend that she publicly declared her approval of him on social media.

[507] So now I'm like, we're wasting time.

[508] Let's get this ring going.

[509] Here's Sarah's sister, Emily.

[510] In my defense, I was drunk.

[511] I really was that day.

[512] One, I did not want him there for Christmas.

[513] I am so possessive about my Christmas that I did not want him there, but I was told he will be here for Christmas.

[514] Don't mind about it.

[515] So I didn't mind about it, but I drink about it.

[516] So that day, I don't know what, I don't even remember what we had.

[517] It might have been brand.

[518] or something that's something bought and I drank a significant amount of it and I had gotten drunk enough to where I got my family to drive to the fire department so I could go tell all the firefighters Merry Christmas and so we went all over there and said Merry Christmas I'm just telling you that so you know how drunk I was and then we get back and I cut up Sarah told me to cut up a little bit of bacon for we were going to make bacon and green like a bacon green bean stuff fire or whatever she told me here cut up a little bit of bacon.

[519] I cut up the entire like two pounds of bacon and put it all in there without her looking and next thing she knows, she's like, oh my gosh, Emily, this is so much bacon.

[520] And in that same five minutes was when I took a selfie with and I posted it on my Instagram and I said, I something about, you know, I approve or something like that.

[521] So if you take into account, everything I did that day, they were in those two hours of my drunken stupor, I wouldn't really take a whole lot of into what I posted, but yes, that day, I posted a selfie of me and I was literally sitting on top of our island and I'm not a little person.

[522] So for me to put my body on top of our little tiny kitchen island, I, oh, I was not sober.

[523] And then I had him come over for a picture and we took a stupid picture.

[524] We were both smiling and laughing.

[525] I was probably fake laughing because whatever he said wasn't actually funny, but I was drunk, so I laughed.

[526] I took the picture and I posted it and I said, I approve, oh, I think I put was I approve of my sister's boyfriend and then all these comments were oh my gosh yeah yeah yeah because everybody knows I'm such a hard ass I don't like any of them at first I mean now that I look back at it I know they were not just petty things but in that first moment they felt petty just because I had nothing to I had no no nothing to back up my feelings I didn't know him I didn't um I didn't know his character I had no history on him so for me to not like him straight off the bat I had nothing else to say other than really petty things like he freaking called me champ like that's like when you go into a restaurant and there's the waitress is your same age and she's calling you like honey like oh honey yeah i can do that for you or whatever and it's just kind of degrading you know not like a sweet southern grandma that call anybody honey it's like we're on the same level here i am no younger than you and no smaller than you like you don't get to call me honey and that's how he treated me and my brother was hey champ or hey bud and he was oh it just freaking drove me nuts and i was like i'm not your buddy I'm not your friend.

[527] You don't know me. Very, very first time coming home, I remember where we were.

[528] He was standing at our kitchen island, and I had just gotten off work, and I had already kind of felt the pressure of this was my first time meeting him, and I knew that this was obviously his first time meeting me. So there was that bit of pressure of, am I going to like him, am I going to be nice?

[529] So this time, it was like a mixture of feelings knowing I was about to meet him for the first time because I knew, one, I was going to be on my best behavior, and two, I didn't want to send him on.

[530] message.

[531] I didn't want to be on my best behavior and therefore make him think he's okay and I've accepted him.

[532] But I also didn't want to treat him in such a way that he wasn't going to be himself.

[533] So I was terrified after how the heck am I going to pull off something unnatural for me and make it seem natural.

[534] So I was scared to walk in the house and meet him and to give him the wrong impression.

[535] But I walked in the house.

[536] He was standing at our island and I kind of, you know, I smiled and the whole world.

[537] Everybody in the room stopped like, oh, look, Emily's home.

[538] And I said hi and I took off my shoes and I put my purse down and took out my earrings and everything and I walked into the kitchen and he you know he I think he hugged me I can't remember um and he introduced himself and I said hi and then I told them you know carry on I didn't like all the eyes on me so I said carry on whatever you guys are talking about and I and I leaned on the edge of the island where he was on the um he wasn't like across the counter he was just diagonal to me and um the whole time I could like he was like leaning in really close to me and his eyes were like super beady and like staring into my freaking brain and I remember thinking would you stop trying to make eye contact with me so I avoided eye contact because he was so intense and he was so like to just really wanted to connect with my eyes for some reason that I specifically avoided looking in his direction because I just thought holy crap dude you are intense so I was looking down I was looking at Gregory I was looking at mom I was looking at everybody but him except for when he would talk to me I didn't want to look like I was avoiding eye contact so I would look at him and he would say I was a few things and I quickly look away as he continued talking like, okay, I got my eye contact in now, you know, give me a break for a second.

[539] But that whole time, that whole visit, I was just like, holy crap, dude, like, you are really, really intense and you're making it really hard for me to act natural when I feel like you're stabbing me with your eyes and your focus.

[540] And even like, I'm not exaggerating, he leaned his upper body closer to me the whole time, like, ooh, it just creeped me out.

[541] So between him calling me Champ and Bud and him, his intense, just person, being super, super intense.

[542] And he was was talking like he knew everything about everything, and I don't like that.

[543] I don't like people like that.

[544] So add that with the fact that he's also now trying to date my sister with whom I'm extremely protective of, and all these everything's going on in my head right off the bad.

[545] I couldn't stand him.

[546] I didn't like the way he talked.

[547] I didn't like, I didn't like how he carried himself.

[548] I didn't like how comfortable he tried to make himself.

[549] Like, you know, you tell people come in and, you know, feel at home.

[550] But you don't actually want them to feel at home right away like I don't know it's like you say feel at home but you don't actually mean open my fridge and eat my food without asking you know but he's totally the kind of guy that would have done that so that was my first impression was I did not like him I didn't like anything about him and I think I even said to mom and dad I don't remember how long it took for me to say it not long but I remember and then Sarah would come over they'd hang out and they'd leave and as soon as they'd leave I'd sit on the couch and complain about him like oh my gosh he did this he did this he said this don't like him, don't like him, don't like him.

[551] And mom is very, um, mom is very, very compassionate and she's very, wants to make sure all of her kids feel extremely supported in whatever they're doing.

[552] If we're doing something that she doesn't agree with, she wants to make sure that we feel supported and we feel loved in it, while at the same time, she will very lovingly try to guide us away from it.

[553] Um, so if Sarah or Gregory is dating somebody that she doesn't like, she's going to make sure that they feel loved, that they feel comfortable coming home so that she can then tell them, you know, I love you and I support you, but something is off and something is wrong.

[554] And therefore, we hear her better because she's so supportive.

[555] So when, I think Sarah would leave and I would complain mom trying to support her oldest daughter is saying, okay, but Emily, you've got to realize this is, you're not dating him.

[556] You don't need to like these things about him.

[557] Sarah obviously doesn't mind these things.

[558] And I would even say, I know what that just, that's bizarre to me because, no, No, Sarah and I are not alike, and we are very, we're attracted to very different personalities, but I know that there's things about people that drive us both nuts.

[559] Like, if somebody talks like the know -it -all, drives her and I equally up the wall, and we will complain about it together.

[560] Or there's just personality quirks in people that Sarah and I are on the exact same page with.

[561] So those things that were driving me nuts, and I would say to mom and dad after they leave, and I'd be like, wow, how does Sarah not see that?

[562] How does that not drive her absolutely nutty?

[563] And mom would say, I don't know.

[564] You know, maybe it's different when it's in a male or maybe the other things make up for that and she doesn't see it.

[565] Or she'd say, well, you know, those things aren't big characteristic things, you know, so I want us to be supportive and I want us to show her love and I want her to feel comfortable bringing him around.

[566] So, and I would tell her, I know mom, I was pretty rude about it.

[567] I'd be like, I know, I know, I'm very nice to him.

[568] I treat him as if he has no flaws.

[569] Like, I do a good job.

[570] I'm just telling you now that he's gone and I don't have to fake it.

[571] I don't like him and I don't like this, this, and this about him.

[572] And we'd have all these big long conversations about it.

[573] And one of the times I specifically said, he just seems like two people, but I do remember specifically saying it's like he is one, he's one person most of the time for us.

[574] And every once in a while we'll see a glimpse of him and then he'll quickly hide it really quick with his like super intense super no -it -all super funny energetic guy and then you know and then he'll like drop the mask for a second and we'll see part of his real person and then we'll see the fake person and i said i don't know i don't know i don't know i guess it just seems like he's you know got a couple couple versions of himself is what i said i'm i'm this way every single time i never like them is it because i will just i'll just never like the person that my brother and my sister is dating is that just how it's going to be and therefore i need to get over myself and I need to look past those things and try to see that just because I don't like them doesn't mean that that might not be the person for that person.

[575] And so I started to kind of discount what I now know we read flags.

[576] I just discounted them as selfishness or me being judgmental.

[577] And then with my family, my mom and Sarah, with the best intentions, I do not blame any of this on my mom.

[578] But because of how supportive my mom is and how protective she is of Sarah's feelings and any of her kids' feelings, when I would speak negatively it was I was always set down like nope we're not going to do that so then I kind of started to tell myself just back up these aren't red flags these are just you being selfish and you being really protective and you need to calm down and you need to tone it down a couple notches and so that's how it turned into Emily does not approve to okay Emily approves because I literally told myself ignore it ignore it move on I just decided he's cool we like him everybody likes him the family's okay with him mom and dad are okay with him Sarah seems to be obsessed with him.

[579] All these things seem to be checking off of the fundamental, like, standards list.

[580] So I just decided at some point in time that I would be on board and act the part.

[581] I can see my dreams coming together, sort of like more than I even seem to hope for.

[582] I had a major to music.

[583] So I sing.

[584] I've led worship in church.

[585] I play the piano.

[586] And I'll give little snippets.

[587] Like, we're walking down, you know, street, Walnut Creek, and we pass a piano store.

[588] And, of course, him being, you know, I don't know, riding in on a white horse.

[589] He's like, walk me in here and play me something.

[590] I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We end up walking in there, and he got the guy to open the door.

[591] They were closed.

[592] And I'm just like, oh, please, oh, please, oh, please.

[593] No, no, no, no. I don't want to be that person that's like, knock, knock, knock.

[594] Can I play your piano, even though you're close?

[595] And I walk in and play chopsticks or, you know, heart and soul or something.

[596] I had to whip out the Chopin just to prove that I'm worthy of you unlocking the door.

[597] And sure enough, you know, he comes and gets the guy to open the door.

[598] We go in and I, you know, I find my dream piano, which is a Bosomdorfer, and they are, it's a good, easy hundred grand that you're going to drop if you, if you plan on, you know, investing in one.

[599] And of course, he does the whole, you know, later subtly drops the fact that he's already opening up a bank account to like start saving up.

[600] It's his like long term plan to eventually give me my dream piano.

[601] And I immediately go, red flag, no, this is too big, too much.

[602] You're trying to, you know, sweep me out.

[603] my feet.

[604] Tone it down.

[605] You're already doing a great job.

[606] This is unnecessary.

[607] He had connections apparently with Hillsong Church, this big church out of Australia, friends that had sang with them, that were planting a church in the Bay Area that wanted me to come and sing with them.

[608] Yeah.

[609] So, of course, I'm going, oh my gosh, I'm seeing like my, you know, biggest dreams on the horizon, potentially coming true.

[610] And I start to think, why me?

[611] Like, what have I done to deserve this?

[612] And going back in my journal entries too, I wrote about the frustration of feeling like my feelings weren't catching up to his, that he wanted me so bad and was so head over heels.

[613] I was moving forward based on my logical perception of this should be what I want.

[614] This is my dream.

[615] This presents like everything I have ever been too afraid to pray for or ask for.

[616] Like it's too good.

[617] And so therefore, I'm going to put my feelings or lack thereof.

[618] aside and move forward because I know that this is what I want.

[619] But if I look back, I wasn't as in love as he was.

[620] My feelings were not catching up.

[621] I was kind of, if I had asked myself this in the moment, no, I'm not caught up in the whole, you know, fun of it and everything.

[622] No, I'm totally like level my feet are on the ground.

[623] I was caught up.

[624] I was so just starry -eyed and I really was being whined and dined.

[625] But you don't really know what's happening to you until hindsight, you know, you look back at everything and it all makes sense.

[626] The beginning of Sarah and Dick's relationship felt like a heaven -sent whirlwind romance.

[627] Sarah had even felt guilty that her feelings were not catching up to his.

[628] This pattern is common in abusive relationships, according to abuse consultant and author Lundy Bancroft.

[629] Because an abuser is unusually good at expressing an intensity of caring early in the relationship, he can make you feel so special and chosen as if you were the only person who could ever matter to him.

[630] next time on something was wrong.

[631] My first clue was everything was too perfect.

[632] I remember thinking that he, like, buddyed up me really bad.

[633] He pretended to know so much about so much.

[634] You couldn't level with him.

[635] So this became a pattern, which I found out later, is called gaslighting, where someone makes you feel crazy, and they make you feel like you said something you didn't.

[636] Or you said something that they actually said.

[637] Something was wrong is written, Recorded, edited and produced by me, Tiffany Reese.

[638] A heartfelt thank you to Sarah, her family, and friends for participating in this series.

[639] Check out Sarah's personal blog, Space and Purpose, via the show notes.

[640] All of the music this season comes from the band Glad Rags.

[641] Special thank you to Alyssa Doyle for her hype, support, and story editing assistants.

[642] Shout out to my husband, Michael, and our three children, for encouraging me every step of the way.

[643] Follow the hashtag Something Was Wrong Pod on Instagram to stay up to date.

[644] on this series.

[645] If you're enjoying Something Was Wrong, please subscribe now and consider sharing with your friends and family and like literally anybody you've ever met.

[646] Just, that'd be great.

[647] Thank you.

[648] If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, please call the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 Safe.

[649] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[650] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

[651] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.

[652] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[653] She had been under the influence that she left him there.

[654] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[655] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and And John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[656] What happens next?

[657] Depends on who you ask.

[658] Was it a crime of passion?

[659] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[660] This was clearly an intentional act.

[661] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[662] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[663] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[664] Everyone had an opinion.

[665] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision.

[666] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[667] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[668] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus.

[669] Join Wondery Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcast, or Spotify.