South Beach Sessions - Ron Funches

[0] Welcome again to South Beach Sessions.

[1] How can you not smile when you see this face, when you hear this voice, Ron Funches?

[2] You've seen him in a number of television shows, movies, loot on Apple TV Plus now.

[3] He has his own podcast, getting better with Ron Funches because he wants people to work toward the things that they love in life.

[4] Who can't use more of that?

[5] Welcome.

[6] I'm happy to see you, and I'm thrilled that you're here in studio with it.

[7] Thank you, Dan.

[8] What a great intro.

[9] Wow.

[10] You really are a professional who has done this for years, but does not seem to be as bitter as you appear from the outside.

[11] Because I've worked with plenty of people who are bitter, and then it usually means that they don't do your intro properly, or your producers work very well, and they did the great stuff.

[12] Either way, good job.

[13] I'm glad that we welcomed you properly.

[14] What did I miss?

[15] What should I be telling them about people that you're presently working on that you're most excited about?

[16] because the podcast, I don't know what it means to you personally, but the idea of getting better is something that you're working toward in a way that's very public.

[17] Yeah, no, it means a lot to me. It's besides my stand -up, it's the thing that I get the most joy from and the best response from.

[18] People, you know, before I did the podcast, people would tell me, you know, I think you're funny, or I like you from this show.

[19] I like you from this bit.

[20] And then after my podcast, I've gotten responses like, hey, I've started going to therapy because of you.

[21] I got out of a toxic relationship.

[22] I had one gentleman who actually works at this restaurant that I had that I wear.

[23] And he told me, he's like, you saved my life.

[24] I was going to kill myself.

[25] And I started listening to your podcast, and it slowly made me start realizing how unaligned I was on my path.

[26] And now, you know, school to therapy, started doing more hobbies.

[27] And he was like, I don't know if I had ran across that podcast, if I would be here.

[28] And those type of things mean a lot to me. It's one of the great joys of what we do, that kind of intimacy that I guess you can't get from acting or even stand up where you're revealing so much of yourself that people feel like they know you and are willing to follow you on some life advice stuff because you're showing so much of yourself.

[29] Yeah, and I always try to come from, I mean, I'm not perfect by any means.

[30] I constantly am always talking about my issues with overeating and my weight battle, which has been back and forth for since I was a kid and just general self -esteem issues.

[31] So I'm never coming from a place of like, oh, I look at me. I, you know, came from nothing and now I have a house and I do well.

[32] It's not that.

[33] It's just like, I have made a lot of these mistakes.

[34] I'm constantly working on getting better.

[35] I think what really made me started was that I would always post these affirmations on Twitter.

[36] It came from a thing I did with my son before bed where I would tell him, you know, every night before bed, I'd be like, you're brave.

[37] you're strong, you're kind, you're a good person, and have them repeat it back to me. And I started to just kind of do those on Twitter and I would get a good response.

[38] And I was noticing the more successful I got, the response was changing from like, oh, thank you.

[39] This is great to like, oh, of course you can do it.

[40] You got money.

[41] Oh, of course you feel that way.

[42] You got money.

[43] And it was just like this thing of, I feel like there's a disconnect sometimes between people who think they've made it and people who feel like they'll never make it.

[44] And the whole getting better podcast is about showing people that there is no making it, that there's always more challenges that come up.

[45] And we're always on a path to try to be our best selves, or at least I think we should be.

[46] You are pretty much always that I've seen espousing positivity.

[47] There's a need for it right now.

[48] There's an absence of it.

[49] Where does it come from for you?

[50] From that, from the absence of it.

[51] That's a lot of how I write my comedy as well.

[52] When I got started, it was that.

[53] I wasn't seeing the style of comedy that I wanted to pursue and that I enjoyed.

[54] When I started, there was a lot of agro comedy.

[55] I believe Louis C .K. was probably at the height of his popularity at that time.

[56] And a lot of my bits were generally me writing the opposite of what I heard him say when he would talk about about his family or about his kids.

[57] And I knew how much my son had inspired me and how my life would be, different and worse without my son.

[58] And so I was like, let me write jokes about that.

[59] And so that's kind of how I've always been.

[60] And I think it's easy to be positive when things are going well.

[61] That's easy.

[62] It's better to be positive when things are, when it's needed, when things look rough.

[63] I mean, up until a few weeks ago, a lot of my friends were so scared and depressed thinking that it was going to have to be Biden or Trump, you know.

[64] And now to see such a shift that no one expected to have this now this new sense of people being excited about being able opportunity to make history and make changes and have a gentleman that looks kind and helpful it's all these things that people are excited about but you know you you have to make it between those days and for that you need faith and hope you know you've mentioned Malcolm now a couple of times you had him when you were about 20, right?

[65] You are very young man. I have some friends who have children with special needs that can be a challenge at any age for a parent.

[66] What kind of challenges did that present for you at 20?

[67] Oh.

[68] I mean, it was, it was, I don't know how I survived, to be honest with you.

[69] That's what a lot of my friends, when they remind me when I, like, you know, get down or I'm mad about a gig or I'm mad about an audition.

[70] I don't get there.

[71] I was like, look how where you are from where you came from um and yeah having my son first of all you know i just knew i was excited to have him when he was on the way even though i knew he was young i didn't have any job prospects i thought i was going to be married and have this family this young family we'd grind it out and figure it out um and as soon as it found out that he had autism is one of the biggest mental shifts for me because i think at least for me and i think for a lot of people when you have a kid, especially if it's a firstborn boy, you get all these expectations about reliving your life through them.

[72] And I was like, oh, he's going to go to college and play basketball and do all these things.

[73] And that's simply hearing the word, autism, I was like, oh, man, I can't place any expectations on him.

[74] And that's, well, the biggest lessons I always say is that this thing my son taught me is to lose all expectations, but keep all hope.

[75] because there certainly was a time where I thought he'd never say I love you or go to school or be potty trained and now to see the kind, um, driven, confident gentleman that he is.

[76] Um, and he's, you know, he's doing, he came out on a road with me for this weekend.

[77] He's going to come a couple shows and just seeing how he treats people and how he treats himself makes me, makes me, it's like my biggest accomplishment for sure how has he changed you uh patience for sure drive confidence um just belief in myself when i was younger i certainly i feel like i always had low um like i didn't need much i was happy sleeping on a mattress with no box screen no sheets no real pillowcase taking gravity bonged hits writing jokes with a negative bank account and then when I found out my son was coming all those things suddenly I could see the downside of them I could see that this wasn't a way to live that that would have been it was okay for me but it was not okay for my son what has your viewpoint on love how has that changed because you are perpetually an uncondendant pouring yourself into the formation of this human being.

[78] That's a good question.

[79] I mean, love for me has changed in a lot of ways and how I think I was very naive about love partially because of my son, I think, and pouring that amount of love and receiving that much of unconditional love back from him.

[80] I think that was immeasurable, especially when I was coming up with comedy.

[81] I think a lot of my friends always like you would be an asshole if it wasn't for your son because he's always kept you balance he's always if I have success or I mean I remember the first time I did the Conan O 'Brien show and it was like the biggest dream for me and I wanted him to sit and watch it with me and he was three and he could care less and just like and I was like no you're going to sit watch daddy's on TV he like eventually just got up took his diapers down and just started rubbing his butt on the TV on my face just to kind of be like look no I'm I'm going to do what I want to do and I was this nice lesson of like oh that doesn't matter what matters is taking care of you and so that's really I think taught me the priorities of love and taught me what true love is and then you know just getting divorced this last couple of years have been like oh man I don't I get confused about love I get overly infested in people sometimes I've learned to love myself a lot more this last couple of years.

[82] And in turn, turn a lot more people down, which is fun.

[83] It's hard to imagine you as an asshole.

[84] It is.

[85] I don't know what you're, what was happening in your life before then, that people would be comfortable saying that of you, that if you didn't have Malcolm, you might be, you might be less.

[86] No, I mean, I am a, no, you're right.

[87] I'm a generally sweet person.

[88] And I'm not like, oh, um, we're devoid of all emotions for sure.

[89] I certainly get frustrated.

[90] If you want to see me being asshole, it is a thing of like, you know, press me about anything about my son.

[91] That's the quickest way to get it for me. I've done some, you know, how people will be.

[92] I've done some things online and then people try to troll you.

[93] And then sometimes they go up to my son and go to his disability.

[94] And sometimes they have some really, really rude things.

[95] And they don't think you're inhuman.

[96] And then, but some people have caught me on the wrong day to where I then search their internet and profile and go find their LinkedIn and go find their work phone number.

[97] And then I call them and then I tell them, hey, before you say such mean things about special needs children, maybe you shouldn't be so easy to find for a person who you don't know the mental state of.

[98] So I try to let them know that there is a balance with me. What can you tell us about your upbringing that represents sort of the landmarks of shaping you?

[99] Oh, I mean, you know, I grew up.

[100] It's born in California.

[101] My mom and my dad divorced when I was very young when I was like four years old.

[102] I moved to Southside Chicago.

[103] My mom was a single mom.

[104] She lived with my aunt and we lived with my cousin.

[105] So I just lived in a house full of girls.

[106] I think a big part for me was living in Chicago for that.

[107] time period um we hadn't have much money at all but it's a lot of free activities in chicago a lot of festivals a lot of music a lot of comedy so my earliest memories were like going to the taste of chicago going to um jazz festivals and seeing like muddy waters and b b binging when i was like five or six years old and i always say um i remember my first concert was seeing morris day in the time um and it wasn't particularly morris day in the time that um inspired me it was that they had to open an act who was a comedian named Shucky who was like a Chicago legend and seeing the way that people responded to this guy telling jokes on stage when I was a little kid let me know that there was power to that and then I started kind of telling jokes when I was young and my mom was you know single mom stressed out sometimes bit of a disciplinarian and spanker at that time and so I remember one time she was planning we've done something me and my sister and she was playing and spank us and I started making fun of her to my sister waiting for our punishment and then we're waiting and still making fun of her and my sister's laughing and my sister's laughing and then I hear about the door my mom's laughing and I'm like oh she comes in and she's like laughing and she's kind of crying about the whole thing and she just hugs us and then the punishment's over and I'm just like oh there's a power to making someone laugh I She forgot to punish us.

[108] And I think that moment, I was just like, oh, oh, there's something here if I can learn to use this.

[109] And that's the first time you sort of remember laughter having that particular power?

[110] Because I was surprised to read, you seem too young to have I Love Lucy as an inspiration.

[111] Yeah, no, my mom always says that.

[112] Yeah, she would always say that when I was a kid.

[113] She was like, you like watching stuff older than me. But I just, you know, I'm a different type of dude.

[114] I just kind of, you know, growing up in Chicago as well, really a lot of gangs, a lot of violence, a lot of gunshots and stuff.

[115] And I think the quaintness of that 1930s, 1940s, Lucy's stuff was made the world seem nicer to me. I mean, I notice it now when I go to, I live in Studio City now.

[116] And it reminds me a lot of, like, watching I Love Lucy because it's just quaint and people waving as you, you walk by the street you know and so i think there was just something always about the in the rhythm i was always a fan of like just hearing that pop up boom and laughter i love that rhythm and i you know i think you could hear that and lucy so so easily that i fell in love with it what was your first big break my first big break was probably first time i did conan o 'brien yeah um like 12 years ago, 13 years ago.

[117] I was still in Portland comedy, and it was a big break in many ways because it was my first time doing national TV and doing jokes on TV.

[118] Conan is one of my, to this day, biggest mentors and biggest heroes in comedy, and to hear him, like the audience laughing was great, but to hear him laughing behind stage and just to cite, hear him really, like, hit his desk about a joke.

[119] That was the first day, I was like, oh, I could do this for a living.

[120] And then on the other side of it, once I went back home, and I'd done this show and I was so poor, and I was like, this is it once we get this, my career's going off.

[121] And I had to just go back and do open mics in Portland.

[122] And no one had seen me perform on the show, no one gave it crap.

[123] It was a quick eye opener of like, oh, I have to just enjoy the whole ride of this because there is no making it.

[124] So that was a very formidable experience for me. A lot has changed over the years.

[125] Chris Cody is an EP now.

[126] Chris Whittingham is off being a star.

[127] The Boston Celtics are world champions again.

[128] So what is the best thing about the original light beer?

[129] Miller Light sparked this debate in 1975 and we still haven't settled it.

[130] Man, I love every single thing about Miller Light.

[131] It's just a vibe.

[132] Every time you get one, you watch the game, you just kick it with your homeboys, toss me a Miller.

[133] You don't have to choose what's best.

[134] Miller Light has great taste and it's less feeling.

[135] Taste like Miller Time.

[136] To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, visit millerlight .com slash beach.

[137] Or you can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer.

[138] Celebrate responsibly Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.

[139] 96 calories per 12 ounces fewer calories and carbs than premium regular beer can you explain to folks how improbable it is to go from where you started with your mother as a social worker in Chicago to where you've gotten it's hard to explain it to me because I will I will try to undercut it and be like anybody can do it you could do it if I did it you can do it and over the years as I get older I have to be like whoa wow especially now that I'm 40 and I have my my younger son and I'm like oh my god the amount of energy it takes and the fact yeah no I grew up single mother household um my mom ended up in an abusive relationship and having to ship me off to my dad in Oregon and that's where I was lucky that I met so many great comedians and there was no type of style that was predominant there yet so you could really just be yourself and that was I think especially you know being 20 to the idea that like hey just be yourself and work on you and work on your voice was something I really needed at that time and you know having a special needs kids when I was 20 getting divorced right away just being like having No money.

[140] Negative bank account one time when I was working comedy.

[141] On a good year, I made seven grand in a year.

[142] And I was like, this is horrible.

[143] If it wasn't for my son, I would not have made it.

[144] And it wasn't for his disability.

[145] We wouldn't have made it because he had Social Security.

[146] So often he paid the rent.

[147] Like there were months I did not pay the rent, but my son paid the rent, which is why now he gets any video game that he wants.

[148] moments in there where you wanted to stop doing it oh for sure many times many times whether it was a bad audience um you know sometimes you perform in front of people that you wouldn't want to break bread with you know and then you go like why am i letting you judge me when i wouldn't even shake your hand if i saw you on the street you know and and when you have that and you're in bad places and you know it's racist people or whatever um and they want a certain type of comedy and i'm trying to work on my style makes you want to quit there are times my mother um was kind of done helping me you know helping me with my phone bill or things like that and and and having my son you know and having those questions with myself you know because she would on occasion be like are you doing the right thing you know you being a responsible dad right now and i'd have to like be like i don't know i don't know i feel i feel the progress there's just not money yet i'm getting respect before I'm getting the money, but I'm getting respect from these great people, these people who I grew up watching, the people who, before I started comedy, I was watching their specials, and now they want to take me on the road.

[149] And so I'm like, something's happening.

[150] Something's coming.

[151] I just have to be patient.

[152] But there are certainly times where, I mean, I tell myself that now, like, just, I was lucky.

[153] I was 23 when I started comedy, because there's no way, like if I was in my 30s or 40s, what I've been like, you know what?

[154] I got my son.

[155] He's got autism.

[156] You know what I'm going to do to get us out of this?

[157] I'm going to start stand -up comedy, you know?

[158] It seems like a horrible idea, but it worked.

[159] It did work, indeed.

[160] When you talk about your self -esteem issues and you say you had to go to Portland to get out of the environment where your mother was in an abusive relationship or that your parents divorced so young, have you gotten to the roots of where the self -esteem stuff starts?

[161] It's in there, right?

[162] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[163] Oh, yeah.

[164] We get in there.

[165] Yeah, me and me and Donna, my therapist, we dig deep, yeah.

[166] You know, mostly, and I don't want to, because my mom will probably listen to this.

[167] I don't want to be rude to her, but we've discussed this as well.

[168] And I've learned to give a lot more grace being a parent myself.

[169] but you know my mom was um stressed out you know she was single mom two kids no money no help with child support or anything like that she was doing it all on her own and i think she had the stress levels made her not able to um you know be as patient as a parent that you need to be sometimes and so she'd be way more of a disciplinarian and then there's just certain times where I felt like more of a burden on her than a kid and as someone that she enjoyed.

[170] And so I think I, yeah, I carry that with me that sometimes I feel like a burden.

[171] I feel that people don't want me around or that I'm more of a hassle than I'm worth.

[172] And I have learned, you know, I still have to battle that, but I know that that's a false narrative.

[173] In retrospect, she was just scared, right?

[174] She was just very, very scared, yeah.

[175] You can only see that as a parent.

[176] Oh, truly.

[177] Oh, yeah, that's what they say.

[178] But it worked both ways.

[179] Like, I learned to have so much more forgiveness for my mom, and then I have a lack of forgiveness for my father for some reason because I know the struggle, and I know how hard it was for me to be a dad and still be there every day while trying to do comedy.

[180] And so I kind of have this, like, oh, if I did it, why couldn't you do it?

[181] Tell us about going to Portland.

[182] He was a pipe fitter, right?

[183] So you go and live with him at what age?

[184] I go and live with him at 12, 13, yeah.

[185] And what was that changed like going from Chicago, which has its set of problems, to now you're one of the few black kids in an all -white school, right?

[186] Yeah.

[187] I don't know if that was the greatest hardship involved in your social setting outside of the home, and I don't know what were the greatest hardships inside the home.

[188] No, there's a lot of things going on.

[189] But, yeah, luckily there was a show, which was at that time, a comic strip called The Boondocks, that was popular that kind of mirrored what was going on with my life where it was two brothers that lived in Chicago and they moved to this place called Woodcrest and I was like oh that's exactly what my life is now went from I should always remember because we drove and you could feel the difference because we're in Chicago and there's listening to rap music on the radio and the further we go west the more it's harder to find a rap station and they all suddenly start turning in the country stations and And you're like, oh, this is going to be different.

[190] And it was, it was very different.

[191] Yeah, dealing with some racism.

[192] People, you know, writing the N -word on my gate and stuff.

[193] And, you know, just general racism that you would deal with at that time.

[194] But on the positive, it taught me so much about being true to myself.

[195] Because what was cool in Chicago was not cool in Oregon and was cool in Oregon was certainly not.

[196] not cool in Chicago.

[197] And I learned to be around all different types of races.

[198] I just think one thing that serves me so well now in my comedy and my travel is that I'm comfortable most places.

[199] I've been in trailer parks, I've been in the projects, I've been in a private jet, I've been in mansions, I've been everywhere.

[200] And so, and I'm comfortable everywhere, as long as you're a nice person.

[201] I don't care what color you are, I don't care where you came from.

[202] As long as you treat me with respect, I'll treat you respect.

[203] I don't try to judge anyone until I actually meet them and shake their hands.

[204] And so I think that's what Oregon and moving around taught me a lot.

[205] The negative was that my dad was also in an abusive relationship at the time.

[206] So I went from like the frying pan and the fire of just this untamed household.

[207] But of all my issues that I have with my dad, I always still lead back to this thing that he saved my life at that time because I don't know how things would have turned.

[208] out for me if he was not there for me then he may not have been there other times and he may have had issues you know in his own life but he was there for me then and I really needed him how did you get to the point of the decision getting made that you have to go to Portland you have to leave oh it's just my mom was in this relationship with a gang member named do dirty which I don't recommend that is a bad name that tells you right away that they're not nice do dirty it does telegraph certain things yeah not an upstanding gentleman and so and so she was in that and we knew him since I was about eight and he was getting more and more abusive both you know in every way verbally physically all of it and so when I was young it was more fearful and then as I'm getting closer to 1213 I'm putting one size And so I'm starting to encourage these altercations.

[209] And so I went from going to school and just, you know, being an A &B student to like not caring about school and just coming home and trying to fight my mom's boyfriend every day.

[210] And so it was a real detriment to my schooling, real detriment to my focus.

[211] Also, my mother has spent the prior seven years scraping to get us to go to Catholic school.

[212] and then in eighth grade she couldn't afford to and so I had to go from this school that had been going through my whole life that was a little bit nicer, not the nicest school but you know how Catholic schools are a little bit more prone to being at least somewhat softer and then my eighth grade they're like all right go into this inner city public Chicago school with metal detectors and no one knows you and so I was like oh I'm easy prey everybody went to school with they all know each other but me and I'm showing up with my little wispy voice which sounded weirder then because I hadn't gone through puberty and just chunky and sweet and I was I hated life every day in that school until I got out of there I had to get out of there I don't know yeah it was a horrible situation were you getting beat up yeah oh yeah beat up pennies thrown at me just threatened all the time just not a good that time and I didn't have any friends anymore all my friends went to this other school so i'm sorry um you found forgiveness for your mother in adulthood wherever it is that you needed to but have not been able to find it uh with your father is the difference that your mother you know she cared you know she was trying you know she was doing her best is that the difference on forgiveness i think the difference is the continued effort the fact that we've had bad points in our relationship.

[213] There were parts that we didn't speak for months, you know, when they reached a point where she was telling me to quit comedy and to basically go move back to Chicago.

[214] She wanted me to work at a grocery store.

[215] She's like, you can do comedy on the weekend if you, if you really want it.

[216] And I was just like, I can't do that.

[217] And I go, I have my own doubts.

[218] And I can't talk to anyone right now who backs up my doubts.

[219] So either you support me or we can't talk.

[220] And she was like, I can't support you.

[221] And I was like, when we can't talk.

[222] So we didn't talk for months.

[223] And it was one of the worst, I would cry.

[224] I would see these like Sarah Lee coffee cakes that my mom used to make when we were kids when I was at the grocery store and I just start crying because I miss my mom so much.

[225] And with my dad, it always just was more like he was there for that point.

[226] And then we've had our own issues.

[227] Like I wrote a, I had an interview in the New York Times where I, about to repeat the joke and get myself in trouble again.

[228] Mom, it's just for the context of the story.

[229] He's not doing this to bother you.

[230] It's just because the audience needs the context because we're doing this biographically.

[231] I did a joke for, as in New York Times, they asked me about my family, and I said I have a mixed type of family where my mom's side is doctors and lawyers and my dad's side is gang members and people who claim to be rappers, but are actually gang members.

[232] And they didn't not like that joke at all.

[233] mostly because it was pretty accurate and they were like no it's not true your other cousin drives a bus and I was like you're not helping There's one outlier driving a bus And so That caused a riff with me And my dad's side of the family For a while Some of which has gotten repaired I got some cousins that are very nice to me Actually my cousin who's the most in jail is the one who's the nicest to me and supports me the most.

[234] And he was like, you were just, he was like, you were telling a pretty accurate joke.

[235] So why are they mad at you?

[236] And just my dad, he, not to put all his business out there, but he had, you know, multiple kids from different relationships.

[237] And I always just, at some point, when I had my kid, I was just like, oh, I don't feel like he protects in the way that I want to protect.

[238] And so I just kind of was like, I need to disconnect from that.

[239] And then he's been okay with that for the most part.

[240] Like, I have my two -year -old younger son.

[241] He's never met him.

[242] And so to me, that kind of was like the last straw for me. Because I just was like, oh, looking at my son, I'm like, if he, no matter what our relationship was, if I knew I had a grandson, I'd be like, hey, for this day, time out, I'm going to come meet my grandson.

[243] I need to.

[244] And that's never happened.

[245] and so that kind that's probably where there's no forgiveness I have not known that I am strong until recently going through an assortment of adversities over the last five years it's not something I had examined before but I feel like I had never had my strength tested so I didn't think that I was strong you know you're strong right now I also did not know I actually go back and there are some jokes that I wrote about me not being strong about how I'm more of like a pug on a day decorative pillow.

[246] And now I go back and I see those jokes and I hate them because I'm like, you didn't know how strong you were.

[247] You didn't understand how much you had accomplished and how much you've been through.

[248] And now I do.

[249] Fortunately, I've had to go through more stuff that this divorce has been absolutely terrible and really made me second guess my ability to trust myself, trust people, my ability to discern people.

[250] My ability to discern people.

[251] whether they're good or bad at the question all of that I had to lose a bunch of friends and but from all of that and through all this is like yeah like I do know I'm very strong I'm yeah tremendously strong I do know that but also in the last couple of years of struggle because you've mentioned the divorce now a couple of times but you said in the last couple of years you've gotten better at loving yourself how oh by setting boundaries by doing a lot of things that I didn't I think before with my son, with my older son, even if I didn't admit it, I was always like looking for help.

[252] And I think that was part of the reason why I even got married again was that this person presented themselves as very matronly and into being a mother from my son.

[253] And even if I felt like we had issues or that we didn't really connect 100%.

[254] I was like, oh, look how good she's treating my son.

[255] I need this.

[256] I need someone.

[257] He's got special needs.

[258] I'm on the road all the time.

[259] And now watching him get older and turn 21, I'm just like, man, like he's the best roommate, the best dude.

[260] He's so, he's strong.

[261] We don't need help.

[262] Would I love a great partner?

[263] Absolutely.

[264] I think that would be wonderful.

[265] But learning that I'm enough on my own that I like being in my own company, just having to try new things.

[266] Like I've been doing jujitsu.

[267] for the past year and a half and that really not just like because i feel like especially coming in here you're going to talk to people oh mma ufc i'm clearly not that type of guy you know uh but the spirituality of it the problem solving of it the being willing to accept confrontation to willing to accept pain to keep moving and not lose it's something that's taught me so much um so yeah i've learned to love from that, treat myself better, keep my schedule, do my Pilates, do my jiu -jitsu, go do mini -golf.

[268] I don't just work, work, work, and then, like, try to, use to just work and buy gifts.

[269] And now I just, you know, travel and have a good life balance for myself.

[270] You have said that comedy is difficult on relationships of any kind.

[271] For sure.

[272] Can you explain why?

[273] Because I read some quotes from you in which, among other things, you said, well, I'm gone 15 days out of the month, and I'm barely breaking even, which isn't something I associate with a comedian of you.

[274] That sounds like an old quote.

[275] Yeah, I was going to say, for your success, I don't think you were breaking even.

[276] Yeah.

[277] I don't think right now you're breaking even anymore, but the grind has a lot of barely breaking even.

[278] Yeah.

[279] Oh, when you're starting, I mean, there's so many years of comedy where, yeah, you are, I was just going on the road for enough money to exactly pay my rent.

[280] It's sometimes where I couldn't even get a hotel on the road.

[281] I remember doing these college gigs, and I would just hang out in the assembly room, and people would be leaving and shutting down.

[282] And I'm still, they don't know, I'm still there at 2 a .m., 3 a .m., waiting to get an Uber for my 5 a .m. flight, because if I get a hotel, it's going to eat into my margins.

[283] And so, and then just the schedule of it, and now I'm so feral.

[284] Like, I can't.

[285] Even a look at my house, I'm like, why would I bring anyone in here?

[286] This is, we got to move around some arcade machines for your stuff?

[287] Get out of here.

[288] It's not happening.

[289] I just, I travel so much.

[290] I like being by myself now.

[291] I do believe that I can certainly find love at some point, but I'm not in any rush for it.

[292] I'm finding love in so many, just in myself.

[293] And dates are still fun.

[294] I'm not having a problem on dating.

[295] And it's just that, you know, I do wish I had someone to share more victories and losses with that I want to share, that I want to invest in them and see them win, you know.

[296] Somebody who's not going to put their bare ass on the television when you're on Conan O 'Brien.

[297] They can do it if it's like a nice thing, sure.

[298] When did you start to embrace your weird?

[299] When did you start to get comfortable with that?

[300] Because that takes some work.

[301] Oh, yeah.

[302] Luckily for me, it was pretty early.

[303] I think that was the moving around a bunch from Chicago to Oregon.

[304] So probably like 14 through 16 was when I really started to embrace it.

[305] You know, I'm going to get that time period where you kind of like put away things to try to get the other opposite sex or same sex if you're into it.

[306] I'm interested in you.

[307] And I tried that for a minute where I was like, oh, I don't like wrestling.

[308] I don't like video games.

[309] I like whatever you like, you know.

[310] What do you like?

[311] like girl what makes you happy and then when that didn't work after six months I was like I'm going back to what I like and what I enjoy and starting comedy I think comedy is very helpful for that I think even if you don't want to do it for a career if you have an interest in it trying it for at least a couple of months will teach you like so much public speaking just confidence in yourself and just the ability to be like this is what I think and this is what I feel and what the biggest lessons one of the biggest lessons I learned in comedy was that oh I don't need to try to come up with the wildest and biggest punchline if I just kind of say what I feel in a rhythm that usually hits more and so that's really taught me to have more confidence in my point of view and what I believe in and then I kind of tie it up with the jiu -jitsu now so now I'm like oh I can go on stage and say whatever I want I could joke about abortions I could about this or that.

[312] If someone has a problem, if they're not trained in Jiu -Jitsu, I could murder them.

[313] And if they are trained in Jiu -Jitsu, then I will back away.

[314] The timeline sounds like, though, that you start to embrace your weird as you're getting beat up as people are throwing pennies at you.

[315] Right?

[316] Do I have the timeline right?

[317] Yeah, no. I think that, yeah, that's part of it.

[318] Yeah.

[319] And so how does that happen?

[320] Because that requires real strength.

[321] You're now alone.

[322] You're getting, bullied.

[323] It sounds like some of your comedy does indeed come from the cliched pain.

[324] Not that your pain is cliched, but a lot of people say comedy comes from pain, and it sounds like you had plenty of it.

[325] During those formative years, it seems like an odd time to arrive at, okay, I'm going to now embrace this.

[326] There seems to be real strength in that.

[327] Yeah, well, what's the other option?

[328] I mean, to be scared and miserable all the time.

[329] That sounds bad.

[330] It does sound bad.

[331] Yeah.

[332] I think that really is it.

[333] There's a freedom to rejection, I think.

[334] And when you feel rejected as an early age as much as it can be painful or you feel like an outsider, I've always felt like I'm a hermit.

[335] I prefer to be alone usually.

[336] That's the thing that is I feel a detriment to me possibly in a relationship is that I don't know if I need to see anyone every day.

[337] I can't fathom wanting to see someone every day.

[338] So I just think I learned to really embrace who I am, embrace myself.

[339] I don't, I don't really, I mean, I'm sorry not to answer the question probably, but I don't see another option.

[340] I think that's what's cool about life, is embracing you.

[341] I think it's so sad when you find people who still don't embrace themselves and they're in the 40s and 50s.

[342] I mean, I think it's beautiful if they get therapy and they suddenly do, but the earlier you do it, the more free you are, the more you can have heaven on earth when you don't care about what other people think about you.

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[364] Do you remember what led you to therapy?

[365] Like, was there any moment?

[366] Oh, yeah, yeah.

[367] It actually was when I met my second wife, because I thought I was like, oh, I really like her, and I have problems with intimacy and problems with keeping a relationship.

[368] So I want to go to therapy and work on this and kind of see what my issues were.

[369] And also I was just overworked at the time.

[370] There's a time where my entire rhythm was off.

[371] Like I was just, I had started to gain money, but I did not put any systems in place or use that money as a tool.

[372] So I was just getting my son up for school at like, six in the morning, 5 .30 in the morning, making him breakfast, um, working all day doing auditions and, and, and trying to do voiceovers, then going out and doing shows at the comedy store and the improv.

[373] And at that point, the comedy store was only putting me up at like 1 a .m. 1 .30.

[374] So I was sleeping about three hours a day, um, working six to seven days a week.

[375] And just like, um, working myself to death.

[376] And so I went and saw a therapist.

[377] because I was just burning out, and she just kind of was like, hey, why don't you, you have money, won't you get a nanny?

[378] Why don't you have the nanny?

[379] Get your son up for school.

[380] So then you can sleep, and then you can go to work at a decent time and not have these issues.

[381] And it's just, you know, it's one thing that I think to get some money, but sometimes you need a little bit of permission to actually, at least coming from my mental state of, like, I went from not having any at all to like the idea of having a nanny, having an assistant was very foreign but now I love me that's if you you know people like oh where did you spend your money which was the first thing you bought that when you got money it was like I got an assistant because I knew I I don't like I don't like calling flights I like calling Delta I don't like figuring out where this bill is I'd rather have someone else do that and it free up my mind for comedy it sounds though like that is totally what would happen to anybody who comes from desperation, you would work because you're afraid of losing it all and you would not spend any of your money because you're afraid of losing it all.

[382] Yeah.

[383] Survival mindset.

[384] You got to go from a survival to a thriving mindset, knowing that money will come, knowing that I'm good at this job, that people want to work with me. Yeah, but you know, you mix that with my original thinking that I'm a burden.

[385] It's difficult, you know.

[386] So I have to always remind myself that people like you, people want to be around you, people enjoy you.

[387] It speaks to me, though, because I started in therapy.

[388] I needed sort of a moment that I still remember, and I'm going to overshare here.

[389] And I'm going to overshare here at the risk of also making my father mad.

[390] So he loses his job, his job has been his identity, where exile family, work is freedom, you've got to work.

[391] And so he loses his job at 57.

[392] and it's just something in him in breaks, right?

[393] And he just falls apart.

[394] And I have to go with my mother to a psychiatric ward to go get him.

[395] And she passes out in his arms while we're there.

[396] And I'm like, okay, I'm going to have to handle this the rest of the way.

[397] And so that's what ends up leading me to the exploration that I would, you know, advise anybody to go get some help so that you can have some tools and look in something.

[398] of the places that you might be blind to on you just had no idea, you know, where you needed help because you just, you hadn't asked for it before.

[399] Yeah, that's a strong shift.

[400] That's a tremendous shift that a lot of people go through, but I wonder about that for you.

[401] Because, you know, actually, you know, most of us are aware of your dad and stuff because I grew up watching highly questionable and enjoy your work very much.

[402] Thank you.

[403] So I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I'm so, but from what I've seen.

[404] seen in the past, you've always, like, you looked up to your dad very much, right?

[405] Yeah, well, that was our home.

[406] My mother, I mean, my dad might be somewhere on the Asperger scale emotionally.

[407] And so my mother always sort of propped up the way that my mother got over her fears, right?

[408] Imagine being in a different country.

[409] You don't know the language.

[410] You don't have money.

[411] You're married very young.

[412] And you have a son is by sort of propping up the father figure as something to aspire to.

[413] And so, of course, I looked up to it because she admired her father very much.

[414] But in the, in therapy, what, I don't know if it's what it's taught me most, but certainly I just had no idea what my patterns were.

[415] I didn't realize how, how many places that I was looking at things incorrectly just because it's what had been handed down through my entire family.

[416] And so that, that part has just been hugely helpful to me to notice some of the, some of the same stuff.

[417] You came to it, I was in my mid -30s, so it sounds like you came to it at about the same age.

[418] But it didn't, it doesn't sound like you had, you know, any kind of seismic moment that sent you there.

[419] You're just sort of like, I need to get more balance.

[420] I'm going to fry.

[421] I'm working too much.

[422] Yeah.

[423] No, no, no. I've had enough seismic moments.

[424] I didn't need to add that one for that.

[425] But it was just the feeling that I'm, I have more money.

[426] I have more freedom.

[427] I'm doing the job that I want to do, but I'm not happier.

[428] So what's going on?

[429] And so it was, yeah, really feeling like the burnout, the amount of work that I was doing, the fact that I wasn't saying no to any gigs that I was doing everything.

[430] And so, which is now, you know, kind of re -triggers me because I have to, you know, outpace my money output for the lawyers and stuff.

[431] And so I'm kind of slightly back there.

[432] I have to remind myself that it's more short -term and that it's not like I'm just doing these crappy gigs.

[433] I'm like going on fun game shows.

[434] But so it's, but it's certainly re -triggering.

[435] I don't want to be too invasive here.

[436] I love it.

[437] But it sounds like being in the middle of a messy, difficult divorce, it would be hard to be happy.

[438] Yeah, it was tremendously hard.

[439] But you're saying, right?

[440] You're saying that therapy has helped you.

[441] Therapy is at least in part helped you because you're like, why am I not happier?

[442] I should be happier.

[443] You go into therapy and now you're going through a divorce that's hard while also being happier.

[444] You are a happier person, but this is going to be a battering to your happiness.

[445] Oh, absolutely.

[446] It's a big, but it's an obstacle.

[447] It doesn't shape my happiness.

[448] It's just this.

[449] It's a correction more than anything where I was out of balance before and not paying attention to red flags and just ignoring it.

[450] And so to me now, it's just like, oh, this is the positive.

[451] The divorce sucks.

[452] It's painful.

[453] And I don't like it, but it's authentic.

[454] And I think before I was getting a little bit away from my authentic self as a, you know, getting more successful and just in the way that she treated things more as a product and more about how appearance is.

[455] And I've always been more about, like, I don't care about appearances.

[456] I care about what it is.

[457] I care about being authentic.

[458] And I was straying away from that.

[459] And so now I'm back completely.

[460] The therapy, for sure, has helped.

[461] You know, this is my second divorce.

[462] And I credit at least going through my first divorce about teaching me how to handle it a little bit better.

[463] I didn't have so many things in place with my first divorce.

[464] So I was a little bit weirder.

[465] I was a little bit more self -reacted.

[466] destructive to myself but as soon as I realized that this was probably the route that it was going I was like let's get this jujitsu going let's call Donna get some therapy sessions on the book tell my friends let's also book some concerts let's book a trip to Japan let's do these things because you know you're gonna freak out and have this plan in place and I think that's been such a difference for me of being like oh I know I'm gonna be sad I know this is gonna suck but it's not who who I am It's just something I'm going through.

[467] How are you self -destructive?

[468] Before?

[469] Oh, eating, overeating, and then, like, sleeping with anybody that want to sleep with me. I've had weight problems all my life.

[470] Have you gotten, I have not gotten to the roots of mine, even for all the therapy I've done.

[471] I have not, I don't know why it is that I've struggled.

[472] I don't know if there is roots.

[473] I feel like some people, food just tastes better to them than others.

[474] Like, you know, like, you see somebody, they just take, I have a friend, you know, just take a have a cookie put away and I'm like what how how did you do that you're gonna eat it two days from now like no once I open the bag whole thing is gone and so I'm learning more to like treat myself have one single servant of a thing I don't buy a bag of cookies and I don't and I used to get mad at myself of being like oh why can't I why can't I be the guy who has a bag of cookies and I'll just put it away.

[475] And now I just embrace my character sheet.

[476] I embrace who I am.

[477] I'm not trying to fix every aspect of myself.

[478] I just want to understand myself.

[479] So if I just can't have a box of cookies in the house, then I will go to a bakery and buy one single cookie.

[480] And usually it's better for me. But I don't know if I need to know the exact route.

[481] I don't know if that'll fix anything.

[482] I think it's, that's actually, I went on tour with Conan and we would share we were on his plane or I don't think it was his plane he was renting a plane and we go back and forth and they have all this food and these pies and treats and he has it for everybody else and then I'm looking at him and he's yawning in his little bag and he pulls out his you know little protein shake and that food and I was just like oh I go you and he's like yeah man I'm I struggle with this too I struggle with all there he goes you think it will go away he goes not you just keep dealing with it and to have someone 20 years older than me going through the same issues dealing with it but having a handle on himself it taught me like oh i don't need to fix me i just need to know who i am he's a genius yeah truly uh that guy i don't even understand how he does what he does because he's an improvisational genius yeah what i like about him too is that a lot of those improvisational geniuses and a lot of those ivy league geniuses are sometimes cruel, mean in their humor, or think that they're better than other people.

[483] And you don't get a single drop of that from him.

[484] Anytime I've seen him, one of the greatest joys was that I got to see him in public because he's so tall and so easily recognizable that people would recognize him all day and talk to him all day.

[485] And he never disappointed them once, no matter if we had just finished the show, no matter or if it was like 6 a .m. and we're getting off a flight, if he was noticed and somebody wanted to have interaction with them, he gave them what they wanted.

[486] And I think that that's such a selfless and beautiful thing.

[487] Seems exhausting, though.

[488] Yeah.

[489] Yeah, truly.

[490] You had told Adam Carolla that you got up to 360 pounds at one point.

[491] Yeah.

[492] What was happening in your life then?

[493] Oh, what was that?

[494] happening in my life oh money i got money but no um no change in my life at that point because i was still had my bad eating habits but they were always all set by the fact that i was poor and so i could only afford to eat like a one five dollar burrito a day and i'd split it up i go to this same truck near my house and starting to learn about the people there and they were always super cool to me and hook me up a little bit but that would be my meal and then i started to started getting money and I was like oh I can now have that burrito by itself for lunch and another one for dinner I can order a Philly cheese steak for lunch I can get whatever I want and I had no type of discipline set at that point so I went from being probably around 300 to yeah 360 370 at my heaviest and it was lucky that I was working on a show called undatable with Bill Lawrence who went on to make Ted Lassow and shrinking and all these other great shows that people love and scrubs before that and he was one of the kindest people I ever worked for because he would see me at the gym kind of working out a bit and then I'd go away we go on hiatus and I'd come back like 10 pounds heavier you know and he'd be like hey man I see you working out all the time but I don't see anything happening I go do you he's like if you want I've been working with this trainer I've been working with him for a while it's like I'll pay for it for you if you want.

[495] And so he paid for a trainer for me for a year, help me get the tools that I needed.

[496] And then I was able to afford to keep them on for myself.

[497] And we just kept going for a long time.

[498] Your resume is really varied.

[499] So if I go and give you some of the list here, if I say you worked with Eric Andre, Chelsea lately, you got trolls, you got blackish, you got chopped, you got loot now, Portlandia briefly inside out to, like, where do you look and say that's the most fun I was having?

[500] You mentioned stand -up comedy, obviously, but in these other settings that you've ended up, what is the environment that you've found the most fun in?

[501] Most fun right now is for sure loot.

[502] Yeah, loose is amazing.

[503] Again, as a fan of someone, a fan of Lucille Ball and watching I Love Lucy, I've told my Adere face, I was like, this is probably like the closest I'll ever get to working with Lucille Ball it feels like that it feels like I'm on set with a genius watching them try new things and figure things out and it's a and I learned so much from her from not just on a comedic sense and if anything she teaches me to trust my comedic sense because she'll ask me a question and if I she'll try a joke and if I laugh she'll go like oh I know it's funny because Ron laughed and I was and I'm like oh she cares about what I think and just watching the way that she's just a total boss but like family first like she never ever lets work get in the way of her being a good mom and I learned so much from her and everybody on the show is super funny and I actually respect and enjoy and that's probably been only two or three jobs where I like everyone there's usually at least one person where I'm like oh why didn't you go to acting class you know like get it together but No one is like that there.

[504] If you don't come in prepared, you're going to get eating alive.

[505] And at the same time, it's like so fun.

[506] Everybody's a bunch of nerds.

[507] We all just play Mario Kart together and hang out and have a group chat.

[508] And we've got a lady there, the true Disney princess, it forces us to go to Disneyland with her all the time.

[509] It's like a dream come true of a job.

[510] That one's been the absolute best job.

[511] Among all of the others that I mentioned, are they largely, hugely positive experiences?

[512] Yeah, yeah.

[513] I mean, for the most part, I don't really put my, like, I'm a good reader of people.

[514] I've turned down gigs that people I wanted to work with because there were other people that I was like, there's no way I would work well with them.

[515] I think that's, I learned early that's the biggest, truly the only power that you have as a freelancer, right, to say no. So I try to utilize that when I can.

[516] But for the most part, they've all been positive.

[517] There's been a couple that I didn't enjoy at all that I did just for money.

[518] But you learn that A, either you needed to or to not do that again, you know.

[519] Any interesting stories from 80 for Brady?

[520] Yeah.

[521] Oh, yeah.

[522] All those ladies, so nice.

[523] You probably want football -based stories.

[524] No, I don't know.

[525] I'm not leading the witness.

[526] I'm just asking you.

[527] You don't have to give me a Tom Brady story.

[528] You, I mean, you gravitate toward women.

[529] You, I know they're smarter than we are.

[530] They're deeper than we are.

[531] And you tend to find places where there's great comfort around women.

[532] Yeah, that's true.

[533] I mean, I just grew up around my mom and my sister and my cousins.

[534] I feel more comfortable around female energy, usually.

[535] So I agree with that.

[536] But they were amazing just because it's legends, Lily Tomlin, Rita Marino, and Jane Fonda, everybody on the movie was amazing.

[537] And what I really, a thing that I've often found is that when you work with legends, they're usually the kindest people.

[538] And they're, especially if they see talent, they get so excited.

[539] Because they're like, oh, here's someone that I didn't know who's good.

[540] And it makes them happy.

[541] And I just remember being on set there and being so nervous because they're all so legendary.

[542] and I'm just but I was like oh I'm going to improvise some stuff I'm going to do some jokes and just seeing them being like oh oh you're funny where you what you are you should do and I'm like I do comedy I do so they didn't really know anything about you know anything about by the end they thought they all discovered me and so great feeling it was a great feeling and just them being like hey you're funny keep pitching jokes don't stop pitching jokes and I knew they liked me because we finished the first day and they were like are you coming back or do you have more scenes and i was like yeah i'm like oh thank god and it was just this nice thing of like feeling you know for all the times where i have felt rejected or i have felt um not a part of the team to be like oh legends like me people like my rudolph like me people like lily tomlin and jane fonda like me they see my value and that means a lot to me um Tom Brady, we were in a scene together.

[543] I did not meet him at all.

[544] He was feet away, but he was, you know, you know how they treat him.

[545] That must have been so fulfilling, though, if you're somebody who has an appreciation of women in comedy that goes back to I Love Lucy, to have those women an anoint you.

[546] It had to be, I don't know how many moments like that that you have had outside of.

[547] I mean, obviously, Conan O 'Brien hitting a table, you're opening, but you're opening your career.

[548] But how many moments have you had like that where you can point to the fulfillment of like, I can't believe that those people are accepting me?

[549] One that always comes to mind was that I, in Montreal at the comedy festival that they had for many years, I opened for Dave Chappelle, like, and this was the year he came back.

[550] so it was like so much anticipation so many people had never seen hadn't seen them in years do stand up and i have to go up in front of him in front of this like maybe like four or five thousand people and i know they just want me off the stage they want to get to dave right away days been gone we need dave i get two three jokes in and i can feel the energy change to them so suddenly be like, okay, who's this guy?

[551] We like this guy.

[552] Keep going.

[553] I could feel them like me more.

[554] And then by the time I'm wrapped up, I could feel they forgot why they were there.

[555] And I was when I was like, oh, I'm good at this.

[556] I know it could not have done that probably for 20 minutes.

[557] But for seven minutes, I made them forget that they were there to see Dave Chappelle, who they had not seen in years.

[558] And I was like, oh, I'm good at this job.

[559] So that's probably one.

[560] Yeah, that's one that's one that always, that's more of a personal one because not many people will know that or see that or go like, oh, I forgot about Dave, but I felt it.

[561] And I was like, oh, okay, I can do this.

[562] What would finish second place to that in just stand up in your career of most moved or confident that you have felt in front of an audience where you're like, it's not merely killing it, but it's knowing, having the extraordinary self -aware confidence of like, it can't feel better than that yeah i mean when i did my special it felt like that um which was like in 2018 um i had just had been running it so long and been um so excited about it that yeah we did the first set you know normally they do like two tapings we did the first one and i'm like we got it you know we'll do the other show but we got it and i was just like oh okay cool this is the best this is a great feeling um comedy in general you don't have it that much I don't, I mean, at least for me, because there's always new material that you're working on, and so you don't feel that same confidence.

[563] You know, it really ebbs and flows.

[564] Some days I feel like I'm the best comedian in the world.

[565] And the other days, I'm just like, oh, I suck at this.

[566] I don't, I couldn't figure out how to properly enunciate my point.

[567] But now, like, I always try to have just little notches.

[568] And for me, it's just, you know, I hate to bring back financially, but just buying a house, being able to buy, you know, we're in our second house now, but buying my first house going from not having anything to, I mean, and it was such a production to even buy it because they were like, oh, your credit's horrible.

[569] We're not sure we're going to get this house.

[570] And you should maybe go get a Macy's card, build your credit up a little bit.

[571] I go to Macy's to go get a Macy's card.

[572] They deny me. And I'm like, oh, crap, I'm not getting this house.

[573] They won't give me a Macy's card.

[574] But they did.

[575] They gave me a Macy's card.

[576] But they did.

[577] They gave me the house and uh and got it around christmas so i took my son didn't tell him about it and i just was like hey come with me we're going to go over to a little trip and i took him to the house and opened the door for him and um there's a pool and i knew how much he wanted to pool and um his just the way his face lit up and how excited he was and then i kept playing pranks with him and i was like you know what i don't even think i like this place i'm going to go back to the other place the apartment this place is too big for us and then he was like, no, no, no, no. And I go, you know, no, no, it's not good.

[578] This is too much.

[579] You know, I'm going to go, I go, you know what, you can come back and live with me in the apartment or you know what, you can stay here and live here by yourself.

[580] And before I finish my sentence, he just goes, by myself.

[581] It seems a torturous existence to have the negative bank account.

[582] Do you have any moments that you're remembering now that you can.

[583] look at peacefully from this distance and be like, whoa, I was really scared then when I saw that my finances were in this condition.

[584] When, I mean, being denied a Macy's card, it, it tells you something about your credit.

[585] But at that point, you were already, you know, safe.

[586] You're in a safe place.

[587] How about a less safe place that you remember?

[588] Oh, yeah.

[589] I mean, most of the seven years, the first seven years of comedy, very unsafe, just not knowing when I be able to pay rent.

[590] I just being, having not being able to pour four to second pair of shoes for my son.

[591] I always remember that, just being like, he had one pair of shoes.

[592] And I was like, please don't outgrow these shoes yet.

[593] I need another week or two before you outgrow these shoes.

[594] I remember doing coffee house shows and stuff and passing a bucket around.

[595] And then it coming back empty and being like, no, I need, I told my son I'd bring back McDonald's.

[596] So I need you guys to put something in this bucket into stress.

[597] it was just yeah because everything was day to day on everything and always behind on rent and behind on everything it was um like jumping through fire hoops where doors are closing behind you that's kind of how i felt like my career was if i stopped moving i'm gonna get murdered so i need to to keep moving keep jumping through hoops to eventually something and i think that's what the therapy was really needed to be like oh you've you've made it through these hoops and you have all these underlying issues that you weren't paying attention to.

[598] And once things slowed down a bit, this is how my therapist put it against.

[599] They were like, hey, remember, we're here.

[600] We're still here.

[601] We just let you keep living because you were struggling so hard.

[602] But now that we calm down a bit, could you handle your eating issues?

[603] Can you handle your sleep?

[604] Could you handle your work -life balance?

[605] Could you handle your self -esteem?

[606] So I just think, yeah, it's been a big part of having some.

[607] some security so that I could then work on myself a little bit more.

[608] The biggest motivator outside of your son during those seven years would have been fear, right?

[609] Yeah.

[610] Yes.

[611] Yes.

[612] Basically, I mean, it was the fear that stopped me from even starting comedy for a while because it was my only interest since I was five years old.

[613] You know, growing up watching I Love Lucy and just I was writing plays.

[614] I was writing.

[615] I was writing.

[616] jokes and stuff when I was a little kid and so I either wanted to be a comedian or a pro wrestler that was my only interest and so the thing that stopped me for so long was being like oh what if I'm wrong what if I go to try to do stand up and I'm horrible and I have no rhythm and I have no ability to connect with people and then I don't know what I want to do with my life at all so for a while it was easier to know what I wanted to do and not do it because then I felt like something was at least always there.

[617] If I eventually tried it, maybe I'd be good at it.

[618] But I don't feel like trying it right now because I was really afraid that if I did try it and didn't like it, what would I do?

[619] And then once I did try it and I did like it and embraced myself into it, it was really like, yeah, if I stop, what are my options?

[620] I don't have a college degree.

[621] I don't have interest.

[622] I don't have anything else I want to do.

[623] I don't have a family job to go into.

[624] I don't have any of that.

[625] So it was like, it was pretty much like I had to do it.

[626] When you're not sleeping during those seven years, is it because you're always working?

[627] Or is it because you're so anxious that you cannot sleep?

[628] It's a mix of those things.

[629] And also my son, you know, when Malcolm was younger, he barely slept.

[630] It actually helped train me, I think, for being on set and doing stand -up and being able to get up at 5 a .m., but there was a time period when he was between two and three, right before, I guess right before I started stand -up, where he would sleep every day from 2 a .m. to 5 a .m. And that was it.

[631] And it would be no naps, no nothing.

[632] Just he would pass out at 2, wake up at 5.

[633] and it like drove me crazy for a while yeah you mentioned wanting to be a professional wrestler you did try wrestling for a while correct how long um i went to school for a few months and then i did one match um that i did at an independent company called gcw and a great time i had actually helped me a lot my comedy helped me change my mindset about before i was always just about set up punchline about the jokes, going to do the wrestling and seeing the people react when I got hit and I fell, I was like, oh, I like that they care about me. I like that they're worried about my well -being.

[634] And it's taught me to kind of, now, I guess for lack of a better word, try to manipulate my audience, not just for laughs, but for, to get them invested, to get them scared to get them angry like those are things I want to play with more now than just being like make you laugh and so the wrestling was a big help with that why only one match because there's not much money in it and I didn't get hurt at all and if you do wrestle a lot you do get hurt one of my best friends is a retired wrestler and he ripped his butthole open and I don't want that to happen to yeah that would be bad that sounds like a pain injury, the ripping of the butthole open.

[635] Did you have a character?

[636] Did you have a name?

[637] No, at that point, there's enough of comedy that I knew to keep it all together, but when I was younger, it was always just Ron the Reckless Negro funches who lives on the Oregon Coast, still, and Blackberry pies out for windowsills.

[638] Wrestling is racist as hell.

[639] Yeah, it would have worked.

[640] It would have worked so much.

[641] Wrestling is one of the great Safe Havens forges.

[642] Yeah, the characters are racist.

[643] They're stereotyped.

[644] Were they rejected a character?

[645] Or that's just the one you decided.

[646] That was pretty much it from the get -go.

[647] You know, it just takes a lot of effort to focus on comedy and stuff.

[648] I don't want to also be a wrestler who's trying.

[649] No, that doesn't seem right.

[650] That doesn't seem right.

[651] How did you end up losing the weight?

[652] How did you end up getting?

[653] I mean, you mentioned Bill Lawrence and a trainer.

[654] You just ended up figuring out some of the things.

[655] Because you lost, what is it, about 140 pounds.

[656] I lost 140.

[657] Yeah, I got down to about 2 .11.

[658] Now, nowhere near there.

[659] So I put on some weight again through the divorce and the pandemic.

[660] So it's a constant battle.

[661] But, yeah, I did it.

[662] My diet was horrible before I drink like six sodas a day and just eat horribly.

[663] And so just learning how to meal plan, grill my own food, which also slows me down.

[664] I've been really learning to enjoy that, that I like to go home on Sundays and grill some chicken thighs, grill up some veggies, and just meal plan and relax and just enjoy my day, smoke a little joint.

[665] And it's like relaxing for me. It makes me feel at peace.

[666] So doing that, Pilates, Jiu -Jitsu, Zep bound, mixing it all up, you know.

[667] Take me through some of the worst job.

[668] you've had outside of comedy because I have one in mind that you don't think of as a bad job because it helped you with performance but it sounds to me like a bad job.

[669] Liberty tax sign twirling.

[670] Yes, you were Lady Liberty.

[671] You were dancing in the street to lure people into Liberty Tax Service.

[672] That sounds like it would be the worst job.

[673] Is it not the worst job?

[674] It was worse in some ways in the fact that the outfit gave me Mercer in my face and I almost died from it.

[675] But then it also cleared up my skin And so then I don't have pimples anymore and I have like movie star skin now.

[676] Really?

[677] Because of lady, because of playing Lady Liberty on the street.

[678] Yeah, yeah.

[679] It gave me a staff infection in my face, ate my whole face.

[680] I used to have pimples everywhere.

[681] And then it all went away.

[682] And I was like, oh, that was horrible, but worth it in the end.

[683] The job itself, yeah, not the best.

[684] You know it's not good because it was next door to a check cash in place because those are never good places to be at.

[685] No one's doing well at the check cashing store.

[686] Really is a receptacle for sadness to check the catching store.

[687] Yes, it's the worst place to be because no one's got an active bank account.

[688] If you're there, everybody's willing to lose 3 % of their check.

[689] So I needed some money.

[690] This was the point where I was probably doing comedy for about five years or so, but no money is coming in.

[691] and I just was like I but I couldn't do a regular job because I had so many gigs so I found a place that was like hey if you just call in when you want to come in all you got to do is dance be willing to dance in the street for hour and the entire interview process was being willing to dance in the street for a half hour for free and so if you did that they're like okay you got the job and and it was embarrassing especially because this was in the town I went to middle school and high school in and I'd see my first wife's mom driving by and she'd see me in my Lady Liberty outfit and she did not seem happy she seemed like she thought her daughter made a terrible mistake and so but other people would see me and they'd smile and they'd laugh and they'd be happy and I'd learn to dance and just be joyful in front of all these people in places that most people was seen to be so embarrassing and it really did I would every day be like oh if I can dance and this dress in front of my high school classmates and my ex or at the time my wife's mother who was scowling at me then I can go on stage and say whatever I want why why wouldn't I be able to this is way more embarrassing so it was a horrible job but it definitely um prepared me for the future I mean I I remember one of the first things I did that people still talk about was I played a homeless guy on New Girl who had to shirtless dance in front of Lamarne Morris and his date.

[692] And I used that exact memory of being Lady Liberty to be like, oh, you've done this.

[693] You've done this before.

[694] You may not have had your tities out, but you've done it before.

[695] So do it now.

[696] Seems like you have found positive in some places that aren't positive, whether it's the check -cashing place.

[697] It sounds like you're good at.

[698] at that.

[699] I mean, if you've got movie star skin because of something, I didn't even realize that when you're getting pennies thrown out you, you'd left that information out.

[700] It's not just that you're heavy, you don't have friends, you feel like you're a little weird, you also have acne.

[701] When you put it all together in a sentence, Dan, you really, you made me depressed when you said it like that.

[702] I mean, no wonder you had, like the formative years have all that self -esteem stuff?

[703] That's a lot, dude.

[704] It's a lot.

[705] Okay, Dan, well, I wanted to talk to you or ask you about your shift from ESPN to hear because one of the things that I like when I watch you now is this nice mix of slight bitterness mixed with like you're still having fun and enjoying what you're doing and then like hatred of your industry and the way things have turned and as someone who works in comedy I totally get that and I find a kinship to that because I feel like and I'm going to make some assumptions.

[706] But you have this love for journalism and sports journalism and sports and sports.

[707] And just as much as I have a love for comedy.

[708] And so you kind of grow up with this rulebook of how things are supposed to work in your industry.

[709] And for me, it was always like, okay, you do this and you get certain goals.

[710] And then they give you a special and you do this.

[711] And then you see things change.

[712] And you're like, wait, you're not following the rules at all anymore.

[713] And now you just want to do crowdwork specials and be jerks to people.

[714] And that's how you can get a special.

[715] And then it just makes it frustrating.

[716] And so when I see you get so mad about your industry, it makes me feel good.

[717] I wouldn't say that I hate my industry.

[718] I may be repressing some anger toward my industry.

[719] But what I want to do at every turn is show people.

[720] the changes and just make them aware of things and ask, are you good with this?

[721] Are you good with what's happening here?

[722] Because this should be a playground that does have a modicum of respect and treats the athletes who are partaking in something that is artistic and greatness.

[723] It doesn't have to be always cruel and criticism.

[724] It doesn't always have to be something that we're arguing about you can I imagine when you judge your industry and say really you're just going to do crowdwork I would say the same thing of my industry really we're just going to find the places to blame everybody on things we're not going to celebrate sports because it's harder you don't want to try to do the harder thing because we all love this thing it's a wildly profitable industry for everybody because the common thread is people love to laugh people love sports shouldn't we celebrate this and then have the people who are, you know, curators were the curators for it.

[725] Shouldn't we be people who are celebrating the humanity of the athletes?

[726] Do you think, do you see the shift that people are sick of the arguing and the, what I would call it, inauthentic arguing when they are just kind of set up topics?

[727] Because I feel the more sports topics I watch online or the more things that I see of, that are not on, like, ESPN or not on Fox Sports or whatever.

[728] really lean the other way towards more like what you do in the more of the authentic way because I feel like that's what people actually want but it feels that the people who work in those industries who are so caught up in the cycle of making that show that they don't listen to that I don't but it feels like when you hear the actual people they're always like this is fake this is phony this isn't a real argument it doesn't I why am I watching this well I would say that that's probably the discerning that are doing that those shows still do well.

[729] I would say I'm disappointed that my industry creatively doesn't do better than that because think about, I don't want to make this just a criticism of ESPN because there are a lot of all sports networks, but think about how few things are made by these networks that are 24 hours.

[730] They have all these spaces, special things that like people really want to watch because they're saying they're great.

[731] There's sort of a lowest common denominator that you have to partake in in order to to get ratings that that reach a lot of people who are at home during the day not working right this is this the advent of this during the Tebow mania and everything you're grabbing people at a time pre -pandemic when people weren't working from home you're grabbing people who are home from 10 to noon watching television and so those people aren't working and you have to I don't know I don't know how many people know that some of it's fake just like with wrestling I'm not sure you're doing that but I don't know if the majority of people I'm happy to see that some independent people have broken out and now people go grab what they want like they're doing menu items because there are more options, but I think the linear options for now are still in a safe place, right?

[732] I don't know if I'd call it safe.

[733] It feels like the industry continues to constrict and get smaller and smaller every day, but because I feel the same way.

[734] Like, I mean, just what you said about you have all these hours and like trying to pitch original programming right now is pretty much a deathbed because you go and you, all these places that used to be where I wanted it to go so bad like having a special on Comedy Central was such a big deal to me and I wanted to have a show and I wanted to do these things and now you go like oh they don't have shows it's just the office 24 hours a day and it is just this big shift away from network or anything towards streaming but now the streamers aren't disruptive anymore now they're acting like the networks used to so it gets frustrating but then it's why you're on youtube and you got the internet I didn't know, though, that you looked, I'm not going to say look down on your industry, but you also want your industry to be better because you grew up admiring your industry and you want it to be what you thought it was.

[735] Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, right?

[736] That's the end of it.

[737] You go and you go like, wow, when I was a kid, it just seemed so glamorous and lovely.

[738] And maybe people had these shows and these specials and it was so beautiful.

[739] Or it seemed to be, maybe there's always issues, I know.

[740] But yeah, to see it change in the way that it changed.

[741] so drastically from like to round out it doesn't even feel like there any type of discernment about your material about what you're putting together it is just about your social media numbers what are you bringing to their streamer to add to their numbers where as i was aware when i was younger at least it's about like development like oh this person's talented and they're great and they could serve an audience if we also lift them up.

[742] But now nobody seems to want to lift anyone up at all.

[743] It seems like they're all scared about their jobs.

[744] And so if you don't have a big audience right away or have someone representing you or you're part of that like Rogan Spear and stuff, then it's hard to make waves otherwise.

[745] Is that where you saw the shift?

[746] Where did you see the shift?

[747] Because this is, the industries can be similar this way.

[748] There are plenty of people having wild success in comedy doing things that are in a different space than they've ever been and you're sitting here saying I want craftsmanship I want to admire a sculptor on stage that I know has spent 50 minutes really working that material the last 18 months so that every note is in the place it's supposed to be yeah yeah and it's like what you say that I want that and then I go like oh it doesn't seem like that audience cared they liked what they got and a lot of them showed up even if it wasn't that so yeah but i like craftsmanship i love seeing i like the word special i mean you know people always go over i'm not trying to judge who does what but i liked it when it did mean something when you're like oh i'm going to get something unique something that someone worked on for the past three to five to maybe 10 years and now you watch something and you're like all right that was just the set that was just the thing that they put out and you're like why what's the rhyme or reason to any of this um and that's one of the reasons i love jiu jitsu is because there is nothing but a merit -based thing you no one can give me a blue belt because i'm friends with someone no one can um teach me a hold because i got my social media numbers went up you know like i have to put in the work i have to have the skill set and i have to be a craftsman and i do.

[749] I mean, that's the word exactly.

[750] I love being a craftsman.

[751] I love putting effort into this job.

[752] And so when I see it kind of shift away from that, it is, yeah, makes me sad and makes me feel.

[753] I used to always be, when I was starting out, I see these older comedians, and that'd be so talking about the industry and how better they were.

[754] And I'd be like, I don't even have any money, and I love this so much.

[755] How could you ever be bitter?

[756] And now I've been doing it for 17 years.

[757] I'm like, all right, I see.

[758] Isn't it just money, though?

[759] Isn't the answer to your question is just money?

[760] Like, seriously, like, you know what it's like to have money as a motivator.

[761] Isn't, couldn't I say parallelly, that the reason this has happened in both places, in sports and in comedy, is because there's money in doing it without it having to be special.

[762] Money and, yeah, and I think in both, not to be rude, but, like, I've noticed that, you know, the streaming and the tech people, tech.

[763] tech people got more involved in both, and they don't care about the craftsmanship about it.

[764] They care about the money, they care about the bottom line.

[765] Well, that's throughout content right now.

[766] Is it not, right?

[767] Yeah.

[768] Like, that's everywhere in content.

[769] I keep screaming to people, like, do you not see the danger?

[770] Like, Silicon Valley has already eaten up newspapers.

[771] They ate up journalism.

[772] You know they're coming for all the others next, right?

[773] They've come for Hollywood.

[774] And, of course, it's the big corporations that are making a lot of homogenized stuff.

[775] yeah yeah exactly yeah have any other questions if you have any other we could sit here and talk as long i didn't realize you were fascinated by our industry i didn't know that this was something that was also interesting to you this is something i'm learning now because i like um it's because i think it's very similar in that you were like all right i kind of don't like with this but you can either keep working within that system and one of my favorite things that i've learned to find out as i get older is like my talent my drive my work ethic won't beat a bad system if I'm in a bad position on a show or am I working in a place where they're not wanting to spotlight me no how no matter how hard I work is it's not going to match up I lose has been a godsend from me but I get so many people I had a conversation with a Uber driver where he was like man I've been he's like I've seen you for years this is the first time I get you and I was like oh cool because this is the first time a show has decided to spotlight me and decided to like research what I do best as opposed to like I've been on other shows I don't I mean I guess I could say it because not coming back doesn't matter like I did many episodes of Blackish and people would always on set they'd be like man you're funnier when they call cut than when you're a thing and I go yeah they don't they don't know me they don't know me they don't know what to write for me they heard they know my name my name is popping and so they put me in this but they don't know me i would never be a guy named ladarius you know that's not me and so i just learned that but oh it's good for me good to network get my name out there but i have to find a project that both that believes in me gets my humor and isn't just using me because other people like me i got i mean it's the same it goes all the way around to dating the people i'm around it's like i used to be a person that like okay you don't get my value i'll show you my value And now I've really reached a point My self -esteem where I'm like I don't care if you don't know my value I know what I am I don't dress up nice I don't you know I've been out on the road many time where people Hang out near the show and they think I'm a homeless dude hanging out And I'm just like I just I have a confidence in me I don't need to show off I know what I'm capable of What a great freedom that is huh?

[776] It is very nice To just be like oh they person has no you know standard for me. They're keeping me very low.

[777] And then I come in and I'm like, I was like, oh, did you not see my Rolex?

[778] Like, I don't hear a lot of comedians.

[779] I assume because they're scared of everything that Joe Rogan is and all of it.

[780] I don't hear a lot of comedians criticizing the Rogan sphere.

[781] Oh, you don't, because you do you hang out with comedians?

[782] No, no, I mean publicly.

[783] All right.

[784] We've, I'm not going to get them in trouble.

[785] I know, I know they do it in private.

[786] I meant publicly.

[787] Getting better with Ron Funch's, loot on Apple TV Plus.

[788] And I will tell you again, Ron Funches .com, tour dates and tickets.

[789] Delight, sir.

[790] Thank you.

[791] You're everything I thought you were.

[792] Nice talking to you.

[793] A real pleasure.

[794] A lot has changed over the years.

[795] Chris Cody is an EP now.

[796] Chris Whittingham is a lot.

[797] of being a star.

[798] The Boston Celtics are world champions again.

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