#1469 - Adam Perry Lang

[0] one What's happening, brother?

[1] How are you?

[2] Good to be here.

[3] Good to have you.

[4] I have enjoyed your restaurant many times.

[5] This is my favorite steak restaurant in all of Los Angeles.

[6] Thank you.

[7] It's one of the reasons why I wanted to bring you in here because this is a really crazy time for restaurants.

[8] And I mean, that's basically that that's the gist of it.

[9] This is a crazy time.

[10] It's bananas.

[11] It's absolutely crazy.

[12] Trying to just get a handle on it.

[13] It's just overwhelming.

[14] So for me, it's just head down and cook, try to help people, you know, that are in need, and then we'll figure it out later.

[15] Well, I know you've been doing a lot of cooking for first responders and for hospitals and, like, what have you been doing with your time now that this is?

[16] Well, it really first started where basically everything just, everybody was just staring at each other and saying what is going on what's happening.

[17] And I had, I didn't lay off any of my employees and it's all happening.

[18] else is closing up shop and, you know, I'm just overwhelmed as a business owner.

[19] What am I going to do?

[20] And I actually had my GM come up to me and, you know, because I'm trying to figure it out, everybody's asked what's going to happen.

[21] My GM came up to me and just says, hey, listen, you know, we're with you.

[22] We know you didn't create the coronavirus.

[23] You know, you do what you have to do and we know your heart's in the right place.

[24] And I was just like, I just like kind of just let out of breath and I'm like okay well I appreciate you saying that and then I was just head down get down to business with it and we had a cut back 90 % of the staff and we were just like just cook didn't know who we're gonna who's gonna buy it or anything it's just crazy so what did you just tell her but it's the the steakhouse is called APL and it's in LA in what is that like the theater district what is that called that area it's in the heart of Hollywood Hollywood and Vine, and it's right next to the Pentagious Theater, which we, and what's ironic was, it was literally when they closed in all the restaurants, was the, going to be the night of Hamilton premiering, which is a big deal for us as a business, and, you know, all of a sudden it's like, it stops.

[25] Yeah, we, I went to your place right after we saw something.

[26] It was, oh, it was Frozen.

[27] Yeah, okay.

[28] I have daughters.

[29] Right.

[30] Yeah, we went to see Frozen, and that was the last time.

[31] I was at your place.

[32] It's got to be a very strange thing.

[33] This has never happened before.

[34] And one of the things that we've talked about a lot on this podcast is what's so devastating about this is there's a lot of people that have lost businesses in the past because markets changed and because maybe they didn't do what they could have done or work as hard as they could have worked.

[35] But for so many small businesses and restaurants and bars, they've been doing the best work they've ever been able to do.

[36] They're putting in the hours.

[37] They're showing up.

[38] They're putting out these amazing meals.

[39] And then because of nothing that's their fault, it just gets shut off.

[40] It just gets shut off.

[41] It's crazy.

[42] And without any real understanding of how long it's going to take or when you're going to, I mean, we just had a conversation.

[43] I was saying we should just talk about this on air because we're just talking in the green room.

[44] Like there's no clear indication of when you'll be able to go back to work and serve food to the general public.

[45] and what that's going to look like.

[46] I know.

[47] It's the unknown.

[48] But how I'm investing my time, how a lot of other chef restaurant tours are investing their time is trying to serve takeout to the public, but also doing charitable and things to provide for first line, you know, front line, you know, defense.

[49] And one of the things is, you know, Jimmy Kimmel and I teamed up for every meal that we prepare, we donate a meal to St. Joseph's Center.

[50] So that was the first thing, but it's for our attitude was, is like, we want to help people and let them know that they're cared about.

[51] And then the other thing is to really just keep even just the five people working.

[52] Because we didn't even know if people were going to order.

[53] So we jumped into it like that.

[54] And then these services such as Frontline, L .A., which comes in and brings, it's like the glue between us and the hospitals.

[55] and we prepare meals for 150 mills at a time for the hospital workers.

[56] And do you guys package them up and then have them delivered to the hospital?

[57] Yeah, exactly.

[58] I mean, so we'll just sit there.

[59] They'll say, hey, we have a need for this particular hospital.

[60] You know, Hollywood Presbyterian, okay, great, 150 people.

[61] We package up the meals.

[62] How do you do that?

[63] Do they order off a menu or do you just prepare stuff that you think that don't enjoy?

[64] We prepare healthy things, things.

[65] that they would appreciate.

[66] And then also sometimes I just serve comfort items.

[67] So sometimes I'll do meatloaf gravy and mashed potatoes because, you know, if they're just all healthy, sometimes they just need a little bit more of like, you know, warmth and like just kind of like pulling in.

[68] That's a weird word, comfort food, you know?

[69] It is, but that's what's happening now.

[70] But it works.

[71] Like the comfort, like when you say macaroni and cheese, comfort food.

[72] Yeah.

[73] It is.

[74] That's what people are gravitating towards.

[75] That's where my menu is right now.

[76] It's all comfort food and barbecue.

[77] Really?

[78] Yeah.

[79] So do you, is that because that's what people are asking for?

[80] Well, that's hard to cook steaks, right?

[81] That's my read on the market.

[82] You know, I had experienced a similar thing where things shut down and people needed help, and that was around, you know, during 9 -11.

[83] And, you know, our attitude was, is like, how can we help people those, you know, those in need and really comfort food really kind of just blossomed out of that.

[84] So when you're doing, right, so you're doing takeout as well.

[85] And how does that work?

[86] Do they order online or do they call up?

[87] Like, how's that working?

[88] Like, we prefer curbside as opposed to just doing postmates and Grubhub.

[89] You know, people can do that.

[90] And so we'll get people to come deliver.

[91] Yeah, let's get to that because how does that work, postmates and Grubhub.

[92] Is that good for your business?

[93] Is that, is it less good than people ordering directly from you?

[94] Like, how does that work?

[95] Well, it's great for a business because it gives us a greater range and we really can't deliver.

[96] So it gives us an opportunity.

[97] So it's a whole other market.

[98] But, you know, they charge a back -end fee on it.

[99] So we have to up charge it a bit.

[100] And, you know, for us, we'd prefer just to kind of sell directly to the customer curbside, which we're doing a good clip up to.

[101] It's probably about half and half.

[102] So, like, what, if you had a guess, like, what's the capacity as, like, for your business?

[103] It's, like, full on, wide open where people can come and sit down versus now.

[104] Like, how much is it deteriorated?

[105] Oh, it's maybe 10, 15 % of the business.

[106] compared to yeah and that's why i'm just focusing on like i just got to keep moving that's how i'm emotionally getting through this thing and also keeping the business going is basically just cook for people that are in need you know focus on the hospitals and then and the neighborhood just right around us so it's a tough spot and you have obviously have a lot of friends that are in the restaurant business and so what is talk all the time what's the general feeling like what is uh what's the temperature?

[107] Like, how's everybody dealing with this?

[108] You know, first of all, knowing that a good number of us are not going to be around, because just even figuring out all the rules and the laws that are going to happen around this thing or unfolding, they're just very hard to read and get a clear understanding of what's happening.

[109] So a lot of people just don't know the unknown.

[110] You know, landlords, you know, we're deferring rent, but at the same time, you know, accepting of that.

[111] So we're like on the hook and we don't even really know where we're going to end up with it, even just the PPP loans.

[112] What is PPP?

[113] It's the Paycheck Protection Program and that's really a government -funded assistance to supply restaurants and all businesses.

[114] I think of all the loans given out, I think only 5 % of all the loans given out were actually to restaurants.

[115] So they give you a chunk of money essentially that covers eight weeks of payroll and also a portion of that for 20, that's 75 % has to be spent on payroll, covers for eight weeks.

[116] And then the other 25 % is for rent and utilities.

[117] So it's like an eight week lifeline.

[118] So.

[119] And so far, how long has it been now?

[120] We're looking at like six weeks of lockdown so far or something like that like what feels like longer it's got to be a little bit longer like for me it feels it probably is that I don't even have a concept of time I'm working so hard it's just me and four other people and tour in the front and tour with me in the kitchen we're doing dishes we're cooking we're cleaning we're doing everything I mean it's a great sense of you know what you know accomplishment and like I got an email from a nurse thanking us for the healthy meal that we prepared for them and that makes it worth it but you know like for me i'm actually like inspired and just kicking it into high gear i'm not going to like just waller in it i'm just going to keep working head down do what i do and just hope at the end of the day at the end of the day people have to eat so the world's going to be different you know probably not going to be the same at all in terms of from my business but what what choice do i have right you want one of these man yeah killcliff CBD drink delicious oh yeah mango nice sorry for people listen to me slurp I like that.

[121] So when you're operating at 10 % capacity, obviously this is not sustainable.

[122] 10 % of your business is not sustainable.

[123] That's right.

[124] Just because operating costs and all the above.

[125] And then you're obviously in a very high profile area, which must be extraordinary rent, too.

[126] We're just not paying the rent.

[127] You know, we're just pushing it off.

[128] We can't.

[129] We don't have the money for it.

[130] So we'll have to work it out.

[131] You look very stressed out.

[132] I don't see, I've never seen you like this.

[133] Every time I've seen you, you're all, that's you right there with a big smile.

[134] Whenever I see you at your restaurant, it's always smiling.

[135] I found out about your restaurant online.

[136] I don't have the answers, you know.

[137] It's just, it's crazy.

[138] I found out about your restaurant online.

[139] I was just Googling new places to go for dinner.

[140] And I don't know, it was like maybe a couple years ago.

[141] And I was Googling steakhouses.

[142] And then I saw that you specialize in dry age steaks.

[143] And I had a steak thing.

[144] you cooked once that was more than a year, dry age, was just so, it was delicious, but it was really weird.

[145] It's weird.

[146] It doesn't taste anything like a regular steak.

[147] It tastes like, boy, it's like a different animal.

[148] It's like you're eating something, you know, some exotic animal.

[149] And that's what I like to do.

[150] I mean, you know, more age doesn't necessarily mean better, but, you know, it's just different.

[151] And that's, you know, for me as a chef, you know, I call.

[152] my dry age room and environmental chamber.

[153] I think that's, yeah, there's a picture on Instagram of me and, uh, Adam in the, the basement, that fucking meat locker.

[154] Weird meat room that you've got.

[155] And, um, it's, it's, it's for people that have never been to a dry aging room, it's very odd.

[156] There's fans blown around.

[157] Everything's a very specific temperature.

[158] You've got all these different things labeled as far as like what date it was put in there.

[159] And for no one, for people who haven't seen dry aging, it's very odd.

[160] too because you're like, hey, what is wrong with that meat?

[161] Yeah, exactly.

[162] The outside crust of it.

[163] Here's a photo of it.

[164] Folks, you can see it in the background of the, it's not working?

[165] We got a technical, there it is.

[166] So for folks you can see it in the background, the meat has like a black crust to it.

[167] And then you slice that crust off.

[168] What do you do with the crust?

[169] Get rid of it.

[170] But is it edible?

[171] It's not enjoyable.

[172] What about for dogs?

[173] I want to give something a dog.

[174] I wouldn't eat myself.

[175] Wow.

[176] You eat dog food?

[177] What's that?

[178] Do you eat dog food?

[179] No. But you feed your dog dog, dog food?

[180] I don't have a dog.

[181] I wish I did, to be honest with you.

[182] I have a dog, and he eats dog food.

[183] Yeah.

[184] I love him to death.

[185] But he actually eats ground elk mixed in with regular dog food.

[186] Even that, I mean, it gets a white ash, which is almost like, I call it a, there's a friendly oxidation.

[187] I referred to it in the whole process, okay.

[188] Is that white ash, which is a friendly oxidation.

[189] ash like the same as you get on outside of salami it's like that it's part of it there it's a mold and the whole concept behind dry aging it's based on three things it's um air velocity temperature and humidity air velocity yes and it's really important i like to you know when i teach people about dry aging it's like if you're on a beach in jamaica and there was no wind and you just start getting sweat and you're just uncomfortable um but then if trade winds went through it would have at the same temperature to evaporate the water off your skin.

[190] So what we're trying to do is we're trying to, at the right ratio, evaporate the water off the surface so it doesn't get like a smelly, stinky bad mold and dehydrate it slowly.

[191] What it does is it concentrates the flavor.

[192] It transforms the amino acids into a whole different compound and changes the flavor altogether.

[193] And then also enzymes within the meat through the process of rigor.

[194] mortars.

[195] It breaks down so it becomes more tender.

[196] So you get flavor enhancement, you get tendrization, and it just blows it away.

[197] So what does it do to the amino acids?

[198] It transforms it into a whole other compound.

[199] It's like a flavor.

[200] It's like when we talk, have you ever heard of concept of like my yard reaction?

[201] Yes, but I don't know what it means anymore.

[202] I've heard the expression, but I forgot what it means.

[203] Yeah, the myriad reaction is basically like when you're cooking something, what ends up happening?

[204] Spell it?

[205] God, I'm the worst spell.

[206] Is it my l -lar?

[207] No, M -A -I -L -A -R -D.

[208] Right, my -l -L -A -R -D.

[209] Okay, I said my -ard.

[210] Okay, that's what I know is.

[211] So, you know, whenever you're browning or you're doing different things at different rates, amino acids transform into different things, and you get different flavor compounds.

[212] And that's really what happens, you know, with meat.

[213] You know, so if I dry age, you have to handle dry -age meat a lot differently.

[214] You can't go out and say, okay, I'm going to slow cook this once as dry -age.

[215] because then it develops a really nasty kind of like funky flavor.

[216] But if you cook it under high heat, like really aggressive, like that's why you have steakhouse broilers, there's something about that browning of that dry -age meat that transforms that just like awakens your senses.

[217] That's interesting.

[218] So you don't slow -cooked dry -aged meat?

[219] No, I don't.

[220] It gets livery.

[221] It's almost like a livery.

[222] Really?

[223] Yeah, I don't even, if anybody wants dry -age above medium, I try to talk about, I'll cook it any way you want.

[224] But if you start cooking a pest medium, it's almost like, you know, seeing someone, like, transform.

[225] Like, it just ages.

[226] Like, when you cook it a long time, it just ages and just turns into something else.

[227] It's just nasty.

[228] Those people who want well -done steak are offensive.

[229] You should go and eat Burger King, you monsters.

[230] What's wrong with you?

[231] When I go to dinner with someone, they order well -done steak, I just cringe.

[232] I'm like, who am I eating?

[233] Yeah, it's a cultural thing I noticed through with some people.

[234] Like, they just want to cook.

[235] But if they want a well -done steak, then I recommend the wet -age steak to do well -done because, you know, at least, you know, you have a fighting chance for some type of flavor that would be appealing.

[236] But it's weird.

[237] Like, why are you eating steak?

[238] Yep.

[239] You know?

[240] It's true.

[241] It's true.

[242] It's just, that's for me, you know.

[243] For everybody.

[244] It's a criminal.

[245] It's a criminal act.

[246] You're wasting a piece of meat.

[247] It's true.

[248] I kind of like, I kind of look the other way.

[249] I mean, it's, it's careful.

[250] with that?

[251] Yeah, it's painful for me. Yeah, it's painful.

[252] I mean, some people grew up eating well -done steak and that's how they like it.

[253] Joey Diaz eats medium well.

[254] Medium well.

[255] I'm like, what are you doing?

[256] Why?

[257] It just doesn't taste as good.

[258] And it's also, there's an art to the perfect temperature, right?

[259] What's the perfect internal temperature of a medium rare steak?

[260] Which would be like 135 or something?

[261] No, it's a bit less.

[262] but it's not necessarily the temperature.

[263] It's kind of like how you get there.

[264] Okay, let me explain that to you.

[265] So I have this method where, particularly for thicker steaks, where I'll cook it.

[266] I start the cooking and then I get it to about 105 degrees and then I allow it to rest at 105.

[267] And what ends up happening is I call the method just like tempering of the meat.

[268] And it basically starts transmitting the temperature in towards the center.

[269] then I put it back in again and then it'll it'll heat up the temperature if you like take it I would say for medium rare even though like on many logs will say okay 120 125 is rare but it's not you know for me if you're going to do that method a solid medium rare will be about 120 really yeah so why do they think 120 is rare like I don't really understand that exactly you know they'll get there I think they're overshooting it particularly for me it's not rare like rare is is is 110 using the method that I use now different people have different methods which is really what's fascinating about cooking meat I ate at a couple times I've eaten at bizarre meats in Vegas which is a fantastic restaurant yes fantastic my amazing chef yes andres it's an amazing place too when you walk in there it's just visually it's really interesting because they have these grills with live logs I mean they take not live obviously but they take logs they're cooking all over fire and they have these grates these grill grates that rise and lower and you know you could see how they're doing it when you walk in the door like as you're walking to your table you're passing by and this method of this idea of cooking over logs like cooking over fire some people prefer that and then some people like those crazy broilers where they're gas but they're it's on top and you slide the stake in and it's lowering down.

[270] Exactly.

[271] Like, what is the, is there a difference and why?

[272] It really comes down to what your taste preference is.

[273] Okay, for me, like where I'm at right now, dry age without any type of smoke or wood is more preferable because I really want to taste the dry age.

[274] When you start getting into the wood fire cooking and you're burning logs that aren't burnt out, I like to cook basically my wood down to charcoal, like to ash.

[275] so that it's cleaner, okay?

[276] So then you really taste the meat.

[277] When you start, you know, burning unburnt fuel, you know, the logs themselves, it has like these creosotes and different flavor compounds that will get on the meat.

[278] And it's just, it kind of just like coats your palate.

[279] So for dry, I like that for more wet age beef, okay?

[280] But for the dry age, I really like cleaner.

[281] I like the steakhouse broiler.

[282] I like using a plancha, you know, and that's just like a heated piece of steel.

[283] It's like you can do that in your home with a cast iron.

[284] It's called a plancha?

[285] Plancha.

[286] It's just kind of like this flat sheet of steel.

[287] And it's all about crust development and surface contact.

[288] So I like to cut the stakes on a saw.

[289] So it's a perfect line and it's all about contact direct with the surface.

[290] It's about the browning of the meat.

[291] If you're going to get in there and you're going to cook over live wood like that, he's doing it obviously right because he's amazing.

[292] But when you raise and lower the shelf, like, I was saying how I rest it, like you can start on the higher level of the heat and then you bring it up higher, the actual grill higher, and it's actually resting while still getting like the tickle of heat up there.

[293] The tickle of heat.

[294] Yeah, so I imagine like, so the flames won't actually touch the meat.

[295] It kind of tickles it.

[296] So it's kind of like it kind of wisps at the bottom of the meat.

[297] And so the way he's doing it at bizarre meats, he's using wet age sticks because that's how you would cook over over that kind of i don't know if he's doing it that's my personal preference i mean i think he does do some aging it does do some aging i believe over there so but it's it's just i've watched youtube videos and how to cook the perfect steak you can watch three different videos and three different chefs and there's three different methods you're like well the thing about dry aging though i mean all dry aging is not created equal i call an environmental chamber so think about like making cheese in france you say hey i order go cheese and you think you'd get one type of goat cheese across the line.

[298] I'm creating an environment, just like a cheese maker, okay?

[299] That's unique to my own.

[300] I actually have the culture from like 15, 16 years ago that I've traveled with, you know, put it.

[301] Hold on.

[302] You put culture.

[303] Yeah, I have like a method.

[304] I basically take meat that has been aged and I bring those spores, if you will, from that aging meat.

[305] Because, you know, there's a mold on it.

[306] It's a friendly mold.

[307] It's a friendly mold.

[308] Yeah, I like it.

[309] I don't want to, like, you know, turn people off to it because this has been...

[310] I didn't know that you brought your own mold.

[311] Yeah.

[312] So I just figured you just let it dry age.

[313] It's not as simple as that.

[314] For me, like, it's each environment.

[315] Again, so I get away from, like, someone can turn around and say, like, my dry age is incredibly clean at 100 days, 120 days.

[316] Because I get there slowly.

[317] My temperature is very low.

[318] I like to, you know, dry age at 32 to 30.

[319] 35 degrees.

[320] I like a higher humidity so I don't dehydrate the meat too soon.

[321] I like 85%.

[322] Sometimes a little bit lower if I want to pull.

[323] It's really depends, you know.

[324] And then lots of fans.

[325] So when you say the cult, like how are you bringing this culture in?

[326] How do you get it to interact with the meat?

[327] I basically take, I take pieces from the previous, you know, dry age room and I bring it to that.

[328] And so I put it up by the fan and it will circulate spores.

[329] You put it by the fan.

[330] Like how do you do that?

[331] There's a fan in a cooler, and it's blowing around.

[332] It's like blowing the, so it'll blow the spores around the room.

[333] So my dry age has a unique flavor.

[334] You might try, you know, some great guys who are like master purveyors in the Bronx, which is these guys are like my heroes, you know, they taught me practically dry aging.

[335] They have their own flavor, so their dry age tastes different.

[336] You know, Pat LaFreed is another New York guy, does amazing dry age beef as well.

[337] You know, his has a different flavor.

[338] You know, for me, that's why I take a lot of pride, even though it's not the most cost -effective thing to carry, you know, $100 ,000 in inventory.

[339] But it gives me a unique flavor profile that is my unique selling point for my restaurant.

[340] So you have these pieces, so like those stakes that we saw in that photograph, you would take one of those dry -age stakes when it's ready, and then you would trim the pieces off.

[341] Then you use those pieces, those darkened pieces, which has the spores on it, and that would blow.

[342] How do you know how much to put in there?

[343] I put it as much as I can.

[344] You know, I'm really, I don't want it to like clean, clean in there.

[345] I want it to be an environment.

[346] So it's like a cave.

[347] And, you know, I'll put a couple of trays in.

[348] And then I'm very tactile.

[349] So I'll touch the meat and I'll feel it.

[350] And, you know, I'll taste it.

[351] I'm always cutting into a steak.

[352] It's like a lot like...

[353] When you say you taste it, like you cook it?

[354] Yeah, like I'll cut off a piece.

[355] Like, how are we looking at 30 days?

[356] How are we looking at 50 days?

[357] So each room is different.

[358] because, you know, I had tried a room in Vegas and we had, you know, ceilings that were 30, 35 feet, a lot of circulating air.

[359] It was just, it was just like had a different flavor profile.

[360] We were able to age 150 days, and that was like our sweet spot, okay?

[361] And then here in Hollywood, it's a lot less.

[362] I have a lower ceiling.

[363] It's circulates differently.

[364] It's just, you have to really kind of taste.

[365] It's not just like, hey, I've dry age.

[366] Or you go to the supermarket, it's like, oh, you sell dry age.

[367] Okay, great, I'll take it.

[368] And if you think that's what it tastes like, it's a good indicator of what it is.

[369] But if you really want to get, you know, like down to it, you know, each dry age can taste a lot different.

[370] So that's really weird.

[371] So it's very experimental in a lot of ways.

[372] It's constantly moving.

[373] How long did it take you to dial it in?

[374] Well, when I first did it, it was really by mistake, particularly the extent.

[375] ended age because you just weren't selling the meat.

[376] So I had a couple of people, a lot of pieces like left, you know, back for a long time.

[377] And, you know, I was like, I take a cut into and I taste it.

[378] It's like, whoa.

[379] I mean, this is incredible.

[380] And I was talking to the old school guys who dry age, like, oh, you're wasting your money.

[381] Nobody wants steak over 42 days, you know, it's just dehydrate or whatever.

[382] I was like, no, I think I'm onto something.

[383] You know, there's a big difference here in the flavor and as you know we would see like a huge difference to jump in flavor and like good quality not like the funky stuff like the the full year that like that's another level that's very good though you say funky and I want to I just want to clarify to people it is delicious it is delicious but it's unusual it's like you're eating something from africa some unusual kudu meat or something like some strange game yeah it's got and you only want to you don't want to eat too much like people want like a whole steak I'm like no you just want two slices of it, savor it like a fine wine, understand it, get to know it, but don't like hunker down on it.

[384] How come you don't want people to hunker down on it?

[385] Because sometimes too much of a good thing is not good, okay?

[386] And I say the same thing also for the Japanese wagg you.

[387] Like, oh, you see all that fat and the marbalization.

[388] It's incredibly rich.

[389] And if you eat it like a westerner, it's not right.

[390] It's just, it's too much.

[391] So certain steaks, certain types of beef, you should.

[392] be eating only a small amount and appreciating anything more like you just it's just I don't know it gets me it's it's too much for me when did people start dry aging a year like when when did this really because this is not something I mean obviously I'd know nothing about restaurants yeah other than that they're great but yeah but when I had heard about dry aging I would hear like 30 days dry age 60 days dry age I'd never heard of a year like is this a new thing Um, you know, they were doing it in Spain for some time, particularly with the older animals like the oxen, um, you know, animals that are five years, eight years, ten years old.

[393] And they would age these for long periods of time.

[394] I was not aware of this when I started doing it.

[395] But they were the first people that I heard about it was doing it while I was doing it.

[396] There was amazing food writer Jeffrey Steingarten who just like dialed into me. And, uh, we did a tasting with one of my culinary heroes, uh, Harold McGee.

[397] who wrote the incredible book on food and cooking, which is a scientific manual to all chefs around.

[398] He's an amazing guy.

[399] And he had put in his book that there's really no difference in flavor when you get to that point.

[400] And so that later stage, so we cook three steaks and we cut a cube out of the center of it.

[401] And at that point, you know, he says, wait, maybe there is something different.

[402] I'm not sure.

[403] I mean, nowadays you hear more about it because we're chefs.

[404] We like to play with things.

[405] We like to push the limits on things.

[406] But not many people want to make the commitment because it's so costly to carry the inventory.

[407] And they're scared to actually do it because if you screw it up, you lose all the money.

[408] So I see more of it now.

[409] But back when I was doing it, there really wasn't anybody else pushing the limits.

[410] Maybe a few people.

[411] I don't want to say like I was the only one.

[412] But, you know, possibly there could have been a few people.

[413] but you know so it's what's interesting to me about just cuisine and cooking in general is that I didn't think of it until I watched Bourdain's original show No Reservations I didn't think of it as an art form and then when I watched the show I was like look how into cooking this guy is that's one of the things about people being really passionate about something it's an incredibly contagious and his passion for cooking and his fascination with different methods that these masters would use and the way he would just just you could see it like he was he was so focused on it and so enthralled by these flavors and these creations of these chefs would make that I realized like oh this is an art form it's just an art form that you eat but I never thought of it that way.

[414] I just thought, oh, that place has delicious food.

[415] This place tastes good.

[416] And then you go to a really fine restaurant or a fine steakhouse like your place.

[417] And you go, oh, these people are, they're artists.

[418] They're artists.

[419] It balances between art and craft.

[420] You know, it's like there's, there's a moment in time when as chefs, we explore it as art, you know, because, you know, you're not going in with any boundaries and you're not going in any preconceived notions of what it should be.

[421] And that's when cooking is a true art. Most of the time, we're doing the craft part where we figured it out and then there's a regiment of like lining it up to make sure it's consistent.

[422] And we pride ourselves in basically that consistency and team gathering around and doing something universal together.

[423] But the art form for me is and maintaining just being curious and inquisitive has just been my bug from the day I decided to be a chef.

[424] And for many people, like Bourdain and every other chef that I know of, that's the key that you know that you'll never learn everything, you know, but, you know, you keep trying.

[425] There's just like a sea of information that, you know, that's out there to explore.

[426] Yeah, he would take you on these journeys to these, like, very strange restaurants in France where, you know, they're on the side of a lake and there's like 10 customers and 100 chefs working and they're creating these things like with filet knives and a grape and like two or three caviar eggs and then they give it to these people and they're in ecstasy I'm like what this is so different I almost felt embarrassed when I first started talking to him about this like like I it's is it you know what it's like it's like for me like I've been a lifelong martial artist and I when some people believe ridiculous things about martial arts and then you have to kind of well that's not really how it works.

[427] You have to kind of explain to them.

[428] And then they see it from my perspective and they're like, oh, you've been doing this your whole life.

[429] This is something you're deeply invested in and you're very passionate about and you care very deeply about the true nature of what martial arts are.

[430] Well, that's how cooking is to chefs.

[431] They're all very similar.

[432] I know people don't like to think of martial arts as an art form.

[433] That's a great analogy.

[434] Yeah, but they don't like to think of it as an art form because it hurts people because it's violent and violence is bad.

[435] Right.

[436] But it is an art form.

[437] It's just a strange one that it's beautiful to the people that appreciated that understand how difficult it is to pull something off and how what this incredible dance between these people is.

[438] But on the outside, like an ignorant person or a person with a very narrow -minded perspective would say, oh, that's not an art, that's violence.

[439] That's terrible.

[440] Like, what was it, Meryl Streep that said that?

[441] wasn't it during what yeah it was it was like and no martial arts are not the arts like okay lady settle down it's people have their preconceived notions and i had an embarrassing preconceived notion about food and i say embarrassing because a great analogy by the way it is in many ways and in comedy is similar in that sense as well because people look at comedy like oh they're just telling jokes so yes Yes, they are telling jokes, but the process is so labor intensive.

[442] There's so much going on, and I think it's like everything.

[443] So many things you look at them from the outside, whether it's carpentry or sculpture, you look at it from the outside, and if you have no experience in it, people can dismiss it, and they don't think of it as this passionate art form.

[444] But now I have a completely different, I mean, I became good friends with Bourdain, and, you know, I did a show and hung out with him a bunch of times and I got it then.

[445] I'm like, okay, this is a different thing than I had this idea, this narrow -minded idea of what food is.

[446] And then you get to meet other chefs and you meet all these people and you're like, these are these like sort of underappreciated artists that are also feeding people.

[447] He had that ability.

[448] He had that ability to bridge the gap and to help people understand.

[449] He schooled me once and trying to understand Japanese cuisine.

[450] Yeah, you were telling me about that.

[451] Yeah.

[452] Tell me about what was that like?

[453] Well, I was just, I was sitting there.

[454] We were around the table.

[455] I was there at him and Emeril.

[456] It was after an event down in the South Beach Food and Wine.

[457] And we're all, as cooks do, all at the end of an event, you know, we're sitting around.

[458] We're just kind of reminiscing on things happening.

[459] And he was there.

[460] I was sitting next to him.

[461] And someone brought up the concept of, you know, Japanese cuisine.

[462] And I just said, yeah, you know, it's so simple.

[463] And he just says, yes, but it's so complex.

[464] And then I just took a step back and he just began to really school me on it.

[465] And he just had the ability just to really communicate food and connection to community and culture.

[466] And that for me was a big moment.

[467] Like I just got to really see him as that person directly.

[468] I didn't think that sushi was very complex at all.

[469] The Japanese food until I watch Jiro dreams of sushi I know that's it You watch that and you go Oh my gosh I mean you just look at the fish And it just starts to curl You know it's so fresh Or they slap the clam And it just like curls up It's like whoa that's fresh And the pride And the seasonality And I mean like what blew me away I've been to Japan a couple of times I've this amazing guy He's known as a Tokyo Fixer Shinji Nohara All the chefs know him If you go to Japan Tokyo Fixer Yeah he's known as a Tokyo Fixer Why is he a fixer?

[470] Because he knows all the places in the books, off the books.

[471] If you wanted to, let's say, just know who produces the best tuna, he'll get you to the tuna boat and he'll introduce you to the guy, the main guy.

[472] But, I mean, these guys who buy the tuna, for example, like you're seeing them at the market touching feeling.

[473] But the best sushi chefs know the actual captains and they know how they're handling the fish.

[474] and they have a relationship that far before it actually hits the auction.

[475] I mean, they're in it.

[476] They're so committed.

[477] I asked them one day, you know, he was talking about this big tuna auction that they do every year.

[478] And I said, why would someone pay a million dollars for tuna?

[479] Like, you know, Western, like, how do you make your money back?

[480] It's like, no, you know, Japanese, it's considered, you know, an obligation if you can afford it to actually be able to, even at a loss to your customers because it's almost a duty to do so.

[481] And that for me is profound.

[482] That's why Japanese chefs, I went there and I was just like...

[483] The million -dollar tuna thing was explained to me by another chef as a dick -waving contest.

[484] He said it's essentially you're looking for...

[485] It's a prestige thing.

[486] It's a prestige thing.

[487] Yeah, like they'll show that they're spending so much money on this tuna, not because it's worth that.

[488] Oh, it's definitely not.

[489] Yeah, because that's why it's confusing to people.

[490] Because people are like, how's a tuna worth a million dollars?

[491] Well, it's not.

[492] But culturally, deep down inside of them, it's like it's almost their duty to do it.

[493] It's not as if, I mean, it's definitely like a, you could look at it as a show -off thing.

[494] But, I mean, if you really understand from like Western culture, but in reality there, it's almost like it's a pride thing.

[495] It's not like, hey, look at me. It's really more like, you know, I'm able to provide this for my customers.

[496] So it's, to me, it's like, it's a little bit more beautiful to look at it that way, you know, and profound.

[497] And like, even like why I got into making knives from me, it's like, it's everything to do with my trips to Japan was because I wanted it as a chef to do everything that I can within the cycle of serving the steak on the plate, like up to the point where they cut the meat to, you know, to have that control on it.

[498] And then ultimately, whether they like it or not, that's their business.

[499] But at least I did everything that I could, you know, to control it.

[500] Because even just how you cut the meat has a different impact on how you would taste it.

[501] Yeah, that's one of the interesting things about your place.

[502] Like, you make the steak knives.

[503] So, like, when they serve you and they put the forks of the knife down, they tell you, you know, Adam Perry Lang made this steak knife.

[504] And you're like, oh.

[505] And I priced it at $950 and one cent.

[506] Everybody like, why so much?

[507] I say, it's priced to be a deterrent.

[508] You know, it's one cent over the felony threshold.

[509] What's the felony threshold?

[510] It's like if you steal something and the value is over $950, it's a felony.

[511] So, yeah.

[512] So in the state of California.

[513] So from my perspective, like, I don't want to sit there, you know, like people are idiots sometimes.

[514] You know, they'll go into the restaurant and they'll just take stuff and they don't realize what goes into it.

[515] And I was like, listen, you know, I know I'm going to have a couple of bad apples in there.

[516] but the majority of people really are good people and they're not going to steal things.

[517] But a good majority will take pepper mills and things.

[518] I mean, it infuriates us as restaurateurs.

[519] Yeah, that's so gross.

[520] I never thought of that.

[521] Oh, it's terrible.

[522] It's terrible, like, what they'll take, you know, meaningful stuff because, you know, you really want to, like, do nice things for your customer.

[523] Do you catch people taking pepper mills?

[524] No, I don't put peppermills on the table.

[525] I won't even expose myself to it.

[526] But for the knife, though, we have caught, like, I have one story.

[527] You know, only a few people have attempted and I basically got to the point of like pressing charges to get the guy.

[528] But instead I said, I found them on, you know, Twitter and I messaged him.

[529] I was like, listen, I don't.

[530] How do you know who took your knife?

[531] You know, we know everything.

[532] And we have cameras and we have, you know, who the reservation is under.

[533] So we had cameras all over the restaurants.

[534] So when we put the knife down, we have a whole system of like knife in, knife out.

[535] and this guy had slipped in.

[536] I'm not going to mention his name because at the end of the day, he did the right thing.

[537] But he had slipped the knife into the baby carriage, into his baby's carriage.

[538] And I'm like, you mother.

[539] God.

[540] So I called them very calmly.

[541] And I said, listen, I don't think you realize what went into those knives.

[542] I make them no response, no response.

[543] And then I remind it, I say, it's a felony.

[544] And I'm going to give you until 6 o 'clock today to return the knife.

[545] and then he realized we were serious he returned the knife and then you know now he returned it personally yeah oh yeah yeah yeah oh awkward yeah I had another guy and he returned it and he just like it's pissed off he handed it back and he walked out the door I'm just like mad at you because he stole something God that's figure it it's dealing with the general public I mean in the sense this is a lot like comedy clubs like most people are amazing yes and then you get a few knuckleheads they want yell out things and interrupt the show and you just try not to allow it to to penetrate you to start causing you to not make nice things so your customers enjoy so you try to like block that out you just try to give like a good experience to people the best that you can yeah that's the same thing with comedy you know you want to make sure that you never have a negative uh feeling about the audience but some people do develop that that don't understand you're it's it's almost like Like if you read every comment on Twitter, you know, most people are nice.

[546] Yeah.

[547] But it only takes 1%.

[548] Like I was explaining to my friend Jack, who was on the other day, author Jack Carr, and he read some comments.

[549] He goes, now I know why you don't read the comments.

[550] I'm like, I told you.

[551] I go, listen, you just have to think, if 1 % of the people who are on my Instagram page are assholes, just 1%.

[552] That's 92 ,000 assholes.

[553] It's insane.

[554] You have to think of it that way.

[555] Like, why would you risk your mental well -being?

[556] It's true.

[557] And put it in the hand of 92 ,000 assholes.

[558] And that's generous.

[559] One out of 100 people, if you went into a room and there's 100 people in there, what are the odds that one of those people is going to be a fucking idiot?

[560] It's pretty high, right?

[561] Well, you've got to think that way times three or four online because of anonymity.

[562] Yeah.

[563] Because the fact that people are, you know, they don't think they're hurting a person when they say something mean.

[564] And they look at a restaurant, it's like, oh, these fucking guys, they don't need this knife.

[565] They just tuck it.

[566] Or this will look cool and, like, it's almost like there's an entitlement, you know.

[567] Yes, and all this meal was so expensive.

[568] I'll steal a knife.

[569] Yeah.

[570] Yeah.

[571] I mean, they feel like you are doing great.

[572] You've got this really nice restaurant on Vine in Hollywood.

[573] You must be a baller.

[574] Yeah, they don't get it.

[575] No. Well, hopefully they'll get it if they hear this.

[576] Yeah, well, maybe there's a guy out of listening that actually stole the knife right now.

[577] He's like, motherfucker.

[578] Yeah.

[579] Well, we brought me up.

[580] We've gotten them back.

[581] We've got them back the good majority of them.

[582] So there's a few out there, out in the wild.

[583] A few out there.

[584] And you could buy them too, right?

[585] Well, you know what?

[586] Like, I have sold it, but again, I price it to deter.

[587] Right.

[588] So because I only have a certain number, you know, I made, I think I made like 320 on the first run.

[589] And then I just made another 500 with my partner.

[590] He's a master blade smith.

[591] This guy, K .C. London.

[592] He's just, you know, him and I, like, we're head down.

[593] And we can literally spend 12 to 14 hours just stamping an insignia into the blade.

[594] And, you know, days upon days, like, thousands of hours of work going to these things.

[595] Who else does that?

[596] Is there any other chefs that make their own knives?

[597] Not that I really know.

[598] You got that market cornered.

[599] I guess so.

[600] I guess so, you know.

[601] How did you get involved in that?

[602] Like, was that something you thought like, hey, this would be a great additional touch?

[603] Or were you always fascinated with knife making?

[604] Well, I've always been fascinated by knives because, you know, knives to a chef are an extension of themselves.

[605] So you can judge, like, a chef just basically on how sharp it and how they maintain their knives in terms of what type of quality of output they're actually going to do.

[606] It's a sense of pride.

[607] So if you're just a home, someone who has a garden and grows a tomato, you know, but you're going to take that.

[608] first tomato.

[609] You think you're just going to grab any knife from the drawer.

[610] You're going to get your sharpest knife and you're going to slice into it.

[611] So like everything we do, it's like if you're seriously committed to the craft, it's like you want to make sure your tools are top notch.

[612] And for me, I've always, you know, always had a knife in my hand.

[613] But when I sold my business in London, you know, I wanted to just take some time and I got into this concept of wanting just to go that next step, that next level.

[614] And I was fascinated with steel.

[615] So I went to the New England School of Metalwork.

[616] And I started, first we learned how to make steel from iron and then went through the whole process.

[617] How long that take?

[618] They have these great courses, you know, week, two weeks, three weeks at a pop.

[619] So, you know, it was about a year flying back and forth to Maine to attend the school.

[620] And then that community is like I remember, a restaurant community.

[621] before Food Network got involved.

[622] And, you know, it's all about craft and sharing information.

[623] So you can go to these things called hemorrhins where around the country there'll be an ensemble of maybe like 9 to 10, you know, Master Smiths who will show like, okay, handle making or, you know, making a dagger or tempering steel, you know, in a certain way.

[624] And, you know, you learn.

[625] And I just became fascinating.

[626] with it, just to actually just use a power hammer with a 5 ,000 pound anvil and, like, thin out steel, and it's just like, it just puts adrenaline through you.

[627] It's like physical, like making something, and then knowing that you're making something that will last generations if it's maintained.

[628] I mean, that's powerful stuff.

[629] You want to see something cool?

[630] On the other table, that's a samurai sword from the 1500s.

[631] Where, where, where?

[632] Yeah, hold on a second.

[633] You need to see this.

[634] I do need to see this.

[635] I'm into this.

[636] Oh, my gosh.

[637] Can I take a look?

[638] Yeah, pull it out.

[639] Don't cut anybody.

[640] That's a legit samurai sword.

[641] With papers and everything.

[642] With the stingray.

[643] Yeah, I don't know whether the scabbard is original, but the steel, the actual steel is original.

[644] I'm sure it's been rewrapped.

[645] Can you imagine that?

[646] Now, look at this steel.

[647] I mean, this steel is like, it's 500 years old.

[648] That's what's crazy.

[649] And that's the profound thing.

[650] I mean, there's something about making something.

[651] that would last like that.

[652] Yeah.

[653] Oh, my God.

[654] No, it's amazing.

[655] It's an amazing thing to just to have around.

[656] And when you pick it up and hold it, it's got weight to it, but it's delicate in the sense that it's thin and elegant.

[657] But yet it's designed.

[658] And you see the curve in the blade like that?

[659] And, you know, what's amazing about this is that when they do the quench, in other words, when they're actually putting the sole of the blade into it.

[660] What does that mean?

[661] The heat treatment.

[662] So, you know, anybody can.

[663] like pound out and make a shape, well, not anybody, but pretty much anybody who's handy with, you know, making things can make what looks like a blade.

[664] But the true soul of the blade comes through the thermal cycle, the heat treatment.

[665] That's why, you know, people like, oh, Japanese steel is the best or German steels the best, because there's this whole process that is about aligning the molecular structure and the right type of stack and the type of steel that you do and then hardening it or softening it.

[666] So, if you want a softer blade or, you know, that might be more utility and, or you want a harder braid, that might be more brittle, but can get really razor sharp.

[667] That's what determines what the blade is and what it will be.

[668] And it's that sole of the blade that, like something like this or this curve is actually produced by the quench.

[669] So after you go through this process, you heat it up and you put it into the water, it actually, it just bows up and actually creates.

[670] It's curve and evenly, too, which is incredible.

[671] That's why these guys are, to me, the epitome of masters, these craftsmen that make knives and blades.

[672] Well, there's always the dopest scenes in movies where someone's making a samurai sword when they're about to go out and kill somebody with it.

[673] The thing is the guy goes to the knife master or the sword master, and he's pounding on it and the red -hot steel and dunk it into the fire.

[674] You know, I went to get a blade made for me in Japan, and I went to this amazing place, quarantining in New York.

[675] And the owner, she came to me, and she says, well, the knife maker would like to have a picture of you while they're making the blade.

[676] And at that time, I was just like, whoa, this is before I was making it.

[677] So he wants to look at you while I was making it?

[678] Yeah, for some reason.

[679] I said, wow, that's pretty profound.

[680] You know, I was like, okay.

[681] You know, puts your soul, your character, into the blade, so.

[682] So he wants to think of you as he's making the thing for you.

[683] That's cool.

[684] For me, it was pretty incredible.

[685] This is amazing.

[686] Yeah, let me get it out of here before something spills on it.

[687] Yeah, I always, people take pictures with this, and I'll have you take a picture with it.

[688] At the end of the, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[689] See, that's why.

[690] You got so much cool stuff around.

[691] Too much.

[692] This fucking death's a mess.

[693] I'm cleaning it up today.

[694] After this podcast, I've decided.

[695] I've got to take Donnell Rawlings black ash candle off.

[696] I love you, Donnell, but I'm not into this smell every day.

[697] But I wanted to get back to something you said earlier.

[698] You said the way restaurants were before the Food Network.

[699] Yeah.

[700] Like what happened?

[701] You know, I think Food Network and Food shows in general are a great thing.

[702] You know, it empowers people to cook, and there's all different levels.

[703] And I think it's the greatest thing.

[704] And also has given us as chefs a platform to do some incredible things, too.

[705] But there was a different type of motivation between the cook.

[706] in the kitchen and a good number of the cooks today.

[707] So before, you know, there wasn't celebrity involved.

[708] So you were there for the reason for the love, the art of it.

[709] Where as nowadays, I'm not going to say everybody because I cook with and I know there's plenty of people that are very serious about it.

[710] It's about the craft, putting in the hours, the repetition that doesn't make sense until all of a sudden you're doing something without thinking about it.

[711] And that's what it was like really before.

[712] We were just, everybody who was in the kitchen was there because they loved cooking, not for any reason of celebrity or whatever it is.

[713] So it really, it did change good, you know, patience, like so people, like the progression would be like, oh, you work as a line cook for three to four years, and then, you know, then you're a sous chef for a number of years, and then you're a chef.

[714] And, you know, there was a progression.

[715] then when the whole thing came along and then it was everybody was like from culinary school to chef you know they wanted to jump right into it and are do you think there's a significant number of people that are actually getting into cooking to become famous there's something about it yeah there's an allure i mean it that it has a it has a thing i don't know not the term famous is a little bit different i'd say like notoriety in other words they're like ready to show like, hey, I can do this.

[716] But with cooking, there's a certain number of hours.

[717] You just, you cannot avoid.

[718] You have to put this in.

[719] You have to have the knife in your hand for thousands and thousands of hours before you really are starting to cook.

[720] Because it's easy to do a dish, but it's difficult to do a dish and to cook, you know, consistently with all the different things getting thrown at you, like this coronavirus thing.

[721] Like, okay, how do you adapt?

[722] How are you resilient?

[723] You know, how can you bounce back?

[724] How do you understand, like, no matter what, I'm going to get this dish up at 9 o 'clock, if that customer wants it at 9 o 'clock, not anything else?

[725] I mean, there's, so the more that you can get in terms of your toolbox, in terms of the use of the knife, I mean, cooking, I don't think about cooking when I'm doing it.

[726] It's just only when I step back and reflect and I want to teach somebody.

[727] I say, oh, yeah, I do that.

[728] Oh, I didn't notice that.

[729] But because all of a sudden, your hands start moving, and it's all about heat.

[730] So you're like, oh, I've heat on the side of the grill.

[731] I know it's not on the grill grates, but I'm going to use it to cook the side of the steak.

[732] I'm going to push it up against there.

[733] How often do you teach people?

[734] Anytime somebody asks.

[735] I love teaching it.

[736] I mean, for me, I love to share my knowledge.

[737] And, I mean, I'm at a stage where, you know, it's like martial arts.

[738] So I did a keto for a while.

[739] And what was amazing to me was the learning process for the black belt.

[740] So you're a white belt basically and took your black belt pretty much.

[741] I know there's a problem about the nurse, but, you know, when you're training, you know, by teaching and explaining and slowing down, you get to reinvent, not reinvent, you get to reacquaint yourself with something that is so familiar.

[742] So that movement might be functional, but now you're seeing someone else doing it, like, it causes you to rethink it.

[743] So when I'm teaching somebody, I'm actually learning.

[744] Yeah, that happens.

[745] That's a big part of this process that happens in jiu -jitsu when people start teaching.

[746] I've seen, I've never taught jujitsu, but I've seen it from a lot of my friends that have become teachers.

[747] All of a sudden, their level jumps way up.

[748] And there's the only thing that could be attributed to is that they're teaching people.

[749] So because of their teaching people, they're going over the fine details that you would ordinarily, you just kind of have it in your head.

[750] Like, you know, when you pass the guard, you put your knee here, you put your foot there, it's normal.

[751] You do it all the time.

[752] But then when you teach in someone, it solidifies the important points.

[753] And almost all the great jiu -jitsu practitioners.

[754] are also great teachers.

[755] That's, it's key.

[756] I totally relate to that correlation, you know, for me. You know, it gets you to really, like, dial in on the minutiae of details and perfect yourself.

[757] Well, not perfect you, but strive towards perfection.

[758] The craft of cooking.

[759] Craft of cooking.

[760] And, again, there's probably a dozen or more different styles, right?

[761] Like, everyone's got their own way to sort of prepare things and do things.

[762] There's definitely a core.

[763] Like, you'll have different schools of how.

[764] you approach things like you say hey one guy does it this way one guy does it that way but i think the best thing that you can say is that you know you know i like i think about it's like hey you have a golf bag and you have all these different irons and woods and all these different things in there it's like what you know the circumstance the environment it's going to dictate how you cook not say hey i'm going to cook that steak and i'm going to use a cast iron pan's like well i don't have a cast iron pan so what are you can do is like well i'm going to cook and i grill it's like you don't have a grill It's like, okay, what do I have?

[765] It's like, you have this, this, and this.

[766] That's, you know, so I only have this shitty, you know, steel pan here and doing it like this.

[767] And, you know, you take a look at it and you're like, you adapt, you know, I guess that's.

[768] Is a steel pan shitty?

[769] No, no, it's great.

[770] Okay.

[771] It's that, like, I'm just saying, like, the steel pans are great.

[772] Blue steel, you know, I use that all the time in the kitchen.

[773] You know, I like cast iron just in terms of the heat recovery.

[774] that it has.

[775] What does that mean?

[776] When you have a cast iron pan, so it's slow to heat up, but then once it gets to that level, if I was to put like a cold steak in it, the cold steak on a different type of pan would bring the temperature of the steel down, and then it has to heat back up.

[777] And then by that time, water can start to develop like underneath the steak and then it starts boiling or steaming, and that's why you can't get a crust.

[778] When you put in a steak into a cast iron pan, for example, and you can do a planch or whatever, the rate at which water is repelled is it basically it steams or it goes away from the meat.

[779] It's actually, and so as a result, it then starts the browning, okay, and transforming the flavor rather than it boiling, because if you taste it a boiled piece of meat versus a piece of meat with a crust, you'd say the piece of meat with the crust is a lot better, you know?

[780] So there's just something about it.

[781] So the cast iron pan is basically when you put the steak in, the temperature is not even going to be moved because it's like a freight train.

[782] It's just moving.

[783] You know, it's going to keep going.

[784] But something like a thinner steel pan, if you put something big and cold into it, it's going to drop the temperature of the steel.

[785] And then it has to recover not only with the steel, but the mass of, let's say, a thick steak.

[786] So it's got to compensate.

[787] That's really what.

[788] Now, I have a carbon steel pan that I sear steaks on all the time.

[789] Most of the time the way I cook is I use a Traeger grill and I cook it very slow.

[790] So I'll do it at 225 degrees and I do it until I hit an internal temperature about 125 and then I sear the outside.

[791] That's been the method that I use.

[792] Well, I'm going to just share my knowledge with you.

[793] So I, you know, with cooking steaks, the term sear doesn't really, it's a misnomer.

[794] There's only browning because like searing really only can happen when, you know, you have live flesh, so to speak.

[795] So it doesn't actually happen, like, where it sears in or seals in juices.

[796] What about, like, ah, he tuna when they sear that?

[797] Well, isn't that technically?

[798] It's more like browning.

[799] Okay.

[800] I mean, I'm just, it's just like, it's a terminology thing.

[801] It's a terminology.

[802] It's like, keep searing.

[803] I'm not telling you not to think like that.

[804] No, I understand what you're saying.

[805] The concept is, it's browning.

[806] It's not searing.

[807] So, um, uh, bring me back on track.

[808] Low temperature.

[809] Okay.

[810] So, for example, what I would tweak with you is like, I would say go to 265.

[811] You can have the same results in a quicker period of time with the same tenderness.

[812] That ratio of speed is not going to impact your product.

[813] So at the end of the day, 225, everybody says slow and low, but I'd say a lot of times, like, a bit hotter and a bit quicker is actually better for the crust development and also for the meat.

[814] Because for the tenderness of the meat, let's say you have a thick, like a brisket, and it's got all this collagen in it, which is tightly wound protein.

[815] I think about it as like a sponge that's dehydrated.

[816] When you throw it on top of the water, it kind of floats and then all of a sudden it catches and then soaks up the juice.

[817] So when you're putting in and at that lower temperature, you're heating it up.

[818] You're causing the protein to squeeze out the liquid.

[819] And then if you're doing it the rate ratio, it's drinking the liquid into the collagen to turn into gelatin, which is that unctuous, beautiful mouth feel that you'll get from a long -cooked piece of meat, okay?

[820] No, if you get a long -cooked piece of meat, like a really well -done brisket, what temperature are you cooking that at?

[821] Depending on the cooker that I'm using, but 265 is my typical dial -in.

[822] So 265, you don't ever go lower than that for anything?

[823] I can.

[824] If I want to get sleep, it depends on my schedule.

[825] In other words, like, I'm going to get relatively the same results, but less crust development from 225, depending on how I handle it.

[826] Again, there's like lots of little variables.

[827] But by 265, I've found that for Brisket, for example, it's the right ratio of that college and drinking it up to get the gelatin and also the right crust development.

[828] A lot of what I cook is wild game, like most of it.

[829] Which is a lot leaner.

[830] And so that's why I would go a little bit hotter.

[831] Try it the next time you got nothing to lose.

[832] So 265.

[833] Go 265 on it.

[834] Okay.

[835] And then how do you feel about that method of cooking it slowly then?

[836] browning the outside later.

[837] I'm not a big fan of it because, you know, there's all these different compounds that are full, you know, it's not like, I mean, they call it like a reverse sear.

[838] Yeah, that's like the terminology.

[839] For me, there's nothing like a crust that is created because what ends up happening is, it's like, you know, if you're cooking it slow, all these juices start get pulled out, okay?

[840] And they disappear.

[841] Like, their juice on the bag and make it into a sauce or it gets evaporating to the air.

[842] The thing about doing that is, it's like if you're putting it directly in the pan while it's wet, all those juices are bouncing back and then re -adhering to the meat.

[843] Okay, that's flavor.

[844] That's flavor you would lose normally.

[845] Now, the sacrifices, like, sure, you'll get it cooked from end to end perfect.

[846] Okay, so it'll be pink to pink.

[847] Okay, it's great.

[848] Right.

[849] But if you go back and, you know, sear it or brown it after, you miss out on all these compounds and it's not the same crust.

[850] I bet you if I gave you a blind taste, test using the both methods you would appreciate the other crust over the reverse here and this is even with wild game even with a very lean meat that's a different story that's what i cook though okay um that's a different story so with the lean meat um i would probably say to brown at first and then go slow the reverse because there is a gentle there is a gentle way of of like it's so lean you want to kind of like I kind of say is like you develop a certain amount of momentum.

[851] And for the leaner meats, it's about the rest.

[852] So you're cooking it and then you're taking it out and then you're allowing that heat momentum to kind of carry over.

[853] Now, I gave you a bunch of elk meat.

[854] How did you cook it?

[855] A lot of it, just like hot and fast so I can really taste it.

[856] You know, I don't mind a bit of a chew.

[857] Most people are different.

[858] You know, for me, I want to taste the meat.

[859] I want to savor like the juices of what that is.

[860] And elk's my favorite.

[861] Thank you for that.

[862] I mean, I still have some of it.

[863] It's fantastic.

[864] I got more if you want more.

[865] Oh, I'll take it.

[866] I'm not going to say, no. That's the best.

[867] Well, I want to try some of the way you cook it.

[868] I want to have you cook some of that elk.

[869] I'd love to do that.

[870] Yeah, we've got to make that happen these days.

[871] I'd love to see your method and what the difference is.

[872] I learned how to do it from Chad Ward.

[873] He's a world champion barbecue guy.

[874] Whiskey bent barbecue on Instagram.

[875] Is it BBQ?

[876] Whiskey Bent BBQ, I think.

[877] Chad's a great guy.

[878] and I've been with him in camp on several hunting trips where he's cooked for Traeger.

[879] Like Traeger will hire him to come and cook for us, and it's incredible.

[880] And that's the method that I learned from him is that reverse your method.

[881] And it's incredible.

[882] I mean, you can go to all different chefs and they'll get to the same place taking different paths than they'll get there.

[883] For me, it's like fishing.

[884] You know, it's like, which fly do you choose?

[885] Like, fine, you know, whatever the hatch is.

[886] but it's oftentimes it's the fly that you believe in most that is going to catch the fish.

[887] I mean, okay, I'm drawing a terrible analogy here.

[888] I know what you're saying.

[889] Confidence is you're going to fish it harder.

[890] You're going to believe in it.

[891] And, you know, you embrace it.

[892] And a lot of that has to do with success in cooking.

[893] You know, you have to believe in what you're doing.

[894] There's some, obviously, there's some metrics involved.

[895] But a master like that guy, for example, I can't refute at the end of the day.

[896] It's fantastic.

[897] I get there a different way.

[898] You know, maybe there's subtle differences.

[899] Maybe mine's better.

[900] Maybe it's not.

[901] I don't even think better is the way to put it.

[902] It's just they're different.

[903] And what do you prefer?

[904] And how do you feel about sous -Vee?

[905] I think it has its place, but it's not the answer.

[906] You know, for me, you know, certain types of proteins like shellfish, it's a godsend.

[907] Shellfish?

[908] Yes.

[909] Lobster tails or shrimp or anything like that.

[910] Because the protein there, it's so delicate.

[911] And if you can go slow, like Thomas Keller has a fantastic recipe, butter poaching lobster tails in sousvied.

[912] And it just cooks it so that it's super tender and it's not tough.

[913] And then afterwards.

[914] So you vacuum seal it with the butter?

[915] With the butter.

[916] And some aromatics.

[917] I want to cook that right now.

[918] That sounds incredible.

[919] And then take it out.

[920] You can kind of like toast it on the grill lightly or put in a pan.

[921] It's something else.

[922] Yeah.

[923] My friend Forrest Galante, he's a biologist.

[924] and he goes off of Santa Barbara.

[925] He goes out there and catches him.

[926] And he gave me a couple of them.

[927] So you've never done it with the butter and the...

[928] No, no, never done it, C -Vee.

[929] I'm going to change your life.

[930] Yeah, I've only done it on a grill.

[931] I've only done it when it was delicious.

[932] I cooked, he gave me four lobster tails that he captured himself.

[933] Yeah.

[934] They were delicious.

[935] But I cooked him on a grill.

[936] I just followed a recipe that I found and with butter and paprika and a couple different things.

[937] Yeah, garlic.

[938] Next time put that in a bag, seal it.

[939] Follow the time sequence, take it out, and then kiss it on the grill.

[940] You're going to be blown away.

[941] So what other shellfish is good?

[942] Is scallops good?

[943] Scalops is good with sous vide.

[944] But, you know, for me, scallops, I mean, particularly if they're fresh, I mean, I'd rather kind of just cook them in a pan.

[945] There's something about that particular, the cell structure and the scallop that I want just, you know, charred in a pan and still just like almost like a bit raw.

[946] There's a sweet spot with scalps, right?

[947] such a sweet spot and once you cross the line.

[948] Yeah, they get tough and weird and you kind of ruin it.

[949] It's terrible.

[950] How do you know when they're ready?

[951] Well, for me, it's a feel.

[952] And, you know, you want to kind of feel it so that, you know, when you touch it, it doesn't feel raw, but it starts to give it a slight spring and then you pull it.

[953] And then, like I said earlier, it's like you kind of like slide into home.

[954] You let that residual heat and that temperature kind of slow down.

[955] a lot of times if you're going a bit fast you take it and they have like some cold melted butter not too cold still a little bit liquid and you cook it and then you just dunk it right into the butter and it just arrests the cooking and then you have it there and like then the guests come and then all you have to do is just like heat it up a little bit and then it goes oh so complicated it's not though I'm sure but I mean it's like you got to dial it in you know it's it depends on what you want you know the end results so like you know you know You have guests coming over.

[956] You want to enjoy your time with them.

[957] You know, you figure out little tricks what you can get away with and what you can do.

[958] My friend Tom Papa, who you met earlier, who's getting tested for COVID along with you, when he has been in here before, he brings this homemade sourdough bread that's just sensational.

[959] I'm not a bread guy.

[960] I don't eat a lot of bread.

[961] I eat very little of it, in fact, especially now.

[962] But when I eat his, like, my God, it's so good.

[963] And he keeps saying, I'm getting better every time I do it.

[964] I'm like, it's fucking bread.

[965] No. How are you getting better?

[966] No, he's getting better.

[967] I get it.

[968] It's crazy.

[969] I'm just being an asshole.

[970] No, I know.

[971] But he's my friend.

[972] I'm just fucking around.

[973] But he's, it's similar in a lot of ways to your dry aging, too, because he has this starter, which is a living thing.

[974] It's, and, you know, his starter is, I don't know how many years old.

[975] It's old as fuck, though.

[976] But he's been using this same starter that he got from somebody else and just.

[977] It brings soul to it.

[978] It brings soul to the food, you know, for me. And that connection that you have to the food is going to also, you know, make you care about it more while you cook it.

[979] And, you know, it's not just a commodity where, like, okay, what are me 16 steaks in a box, you know, and bring it in.

[980] I mean, you can push out food like that.

[981] There's a place like, there's a place for that in this world.

[982] Well, what I'm really hoping, really hoping is that some sort of a rapid test for COVID, not even like the 15 minute one that we came.

[983] Because I heard something about some saliva test that they're trying to develop that's extremely rapid.

[984] That would be amazing if you could just test people right before they come into your restaurant and no one has to worry about shit.

[985] Yeah.

[986] We're gearing up for what the new world is going to be.

[987] thing is just whether or not you're sick.

[988] I know.

[989] It doesn't mean you don't have it if your, if your temperature is low.

[990] It's real weird.

[991] And that's what's going to be mandated on us.

[992] I mean, there's a certain series of things that we're going to have to do.

[993] And it's, you know, nobody knows for sure or whatnot, but, you know, who knows?

[994] Well, at a certain point in time, I think we really need to make a decision as to whether or not we're just going to allow.

[995] this to take over our world or whether we're going to do what we can do to protect the sick.

[996] You know, if you're in contact with people that have a weakened immune system, you're going to have to have a different life than someone who doesn't.

[997] If you're a person with a weakened immune system, you're going to have a different life.

[998] If you're an older person, you're going to have to have a different life.

[999] But for the vast majority of us, we're going to have to give people the freedom to make choices.

[1000] and to do what they want to do with their own life and their own health.

[1001] If you're giving people the freedom to eat terrible food, the heart attacks are killing people as quickly as anything, right?

[1002] Cancer is killing people as quick as anything.

[1003] Cigarettes kill half a million people a year.

[1004] There's no government mandate that's trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes.

[1005] In fact, there's not a single word ever spoken about it.

[1006] In presidential campaigns, in governor campaigns, congressional campaigns.

[1007] No one's out there trying to get people to stop smoking cigarettes, but yet it's killing a half a million people every year in this country alone.

[1008] We're so strange in, and I understand, cigarettes is a choice, and infectious diseases are not, or worried about protecting people who have these compromised immune systems.

[1009] But it's not most people.

[1010] You know, the vast majority of people that are going to get this are not, it's not going to be fatal.

[1011] We have to figure out how to protect the people that are high risk.

[1012] But to quarantine the whole country, it just seems like maybe it was a good move to do initially, but we can't sustain that.

[1013] So now we have to figure out how to move forward.

[1014] And there's all these protests all over California now.

[1015] I'm sure you've seen it in Orange County and Huntington Beach.

[1016] And there's counties in Northern California that are like, we're opening up everything.

[1017] We're going to open up restaurants.

[1018] We're opening up bars.

[1019] We're going back to business.

[1020] Texas is basically back to business.

[1021] Montana is doing the same.

[1022] and, you know, they have a modified approach to dealing this, and we're going to have to figure it out on the long way, but I just don't want us to lose, I don't want us to lose any people, but I certainly don't want us to lose restaurants either.

[1023] I don't want us to lose bars.

[1024] I don't want us to lose small businesses that are crippled by this.

[1025] What is the world that you're going to look like?

[1026] I mean, here we are.

[1027] Like, you know, you talk about a comedy club.

[1028] Like, how do you even, like, I don't know.

[1029] Six feet apart.

[1030] And then there's a certain energy.

[1031] the room, like, what type of world do we have, you know, in front of us the way it's slated right now?

[1032] I don't even know.

[1033] What kind of government overreach are we going to have where people are going to come in and police this?

[1034] You know, like what, I mean, there's no real science to that either, by the way.

[1035] You know, they have a bunch of people jammed into a room, whether six feet apart or not.

[1036] You're touching things, you're breathing on each other.

[1037] I mean, I don't know.

[1038] I think you should allow people to do what they want to do.

[1039] You know, if it gets to a certain point where we have some sort of a viable, you or a treatment like there's this um what is that stuff called again this antiviral medication that dr fouchy has been rems yeah remdesivir they say it i mean boy we're we're hoping for that right we're hoping that there's some sort of a treatment where it's not a death sentence for people even with immune compromised systems so i mean i just i feel so bad for people like you and for all the people out there that own these amazing restaurants that it's one of my favorite things to do is to go to a nice restaurant and it would be for me to go to work yes it'd be such a shame if because of this this pandemic all that goes away I mean and what kind of a buildup are we looking at to try to bring those places back yeah I you know I don't have the answers you know For me, you know...

[1040] What can be done if you had a magic wand?

[1041] What would you do?

[1042] If someone said, Adam, fix this?

[1043] It's difficult for me because, you know, I hear your point, but I have just such great empathy for, you know, people that would get sick just by someone else's negligence.

[1044] Yeah.

[1045] And for me, so it's a bit of a tussle here because, you know, I want to just, you know, on one hand, you have like an economy that is just tanking.

[1046] and businesses that are going to go out of, you know, business.

[1047] But then on the other hand, you know, you have people that are defenseless.

[1048] Some people that look healthy, fantastic, you know, like a friend, like 45 years old, goes in, and they're on a ventilator, and it's just like you can't give the answers.

[1049] Right.

[1050] I don't know if I'm even prepared to give you a summary on it.

[1051] I haven't formulated in my brain the way that I've just been coping, and that's all.

[1052] I'm just trying to hold on.

[1053] And, you know, for me, I'm just trying to put faith in the fact that people have to eat and people like you really want to have restaurants around.

[1054] And in the end, we're going to find our way.

[1055] And the only way I know to get through this is just to head down and work and be really helpful to people that are in need and be there for the community and feed them.

[1056] But outside of that, you know, I don't know.

[1057] God, like if I had the, I don't know how to answer you.

[1058] Yeah, nobody knows.

[1059] That's what's crazy.

[1060] Even if I was in control, I mean, you know, because I don't want people to die unnecessarily by people's negligence, but on the other hand, I just don't know.

[1061] Well, it's such an incredibly messy situation with no clear cut answer because of the fact that you do have these people that are seemingly healthy, 35 -year -old people that are getting it and dying, and it doesn't make sense.

[1062] And then you have, you know, you hear, oh, guy, World War II veteran, 102 years old, beats COVID, you know like you see that too so it's like what how do I think about this do I think about it like the common cold do I think about it like the flu do I think about it like some new thing that we I mean everyone is unsure and that's what makes it so strange to get the vaccine you know a vaccine as quick as possible you know so that we can get it you know at least have some type of defense for this because and I don't know how long that's going to take people like our talking a ridiculous amount of time.

[1063] Well, it takes a long time to develop a vaccine correctly.

[1064] I mean, they're going through a bunch of trials right now.

[1065] We've talked about it before.

[1066] There's several ongoing, including ones with human beings that they're testing the vaccine on.

[1067] There was a woman in Seattle.

[1068] She was the first ever person to receive this coronavirus vaccine.

[1069] They did a story on her and they're monitoring her.

[1070] You know, what does it?

[1071] Because that's the only way for us to be sure.

[1072] I mean, because responsibly, I mean, even just people coming into that.

[1073] restaurant like don't get me wrong i want the business and i want to have a bar that's bustling i want to have a vibe i want people to be happy well fed enjoy themselves but you know right not be nervous not be nervous someone coughs and everybody freaks out yeah servers have mask on so now all of a sudden we can't have music because people can't hear you know the server and there's you know yeah yeah nobody used to give a shit they would shake hands it's weird do you see people shake hands in a movie now and you're like oh what are you doing i know it's you get just you get just get twitchy about it.

[1074] Yeah, it happens so quickly, too.

[1075] That's what's weird.

[1076] Like the whole world shifted so rapidly.

[1077] And people like you are the ones, I mean, obviously the people that get hit the hardest of the people, A, with the disease and B, that work with people with the disease, right?

[1078] The people that have the disease and then the first responders and hospital workers and all the different people that work to help those people, they're the most devastated by this.

[1079] but there are so many small businesses right now that are in this position that you're in where there's so much uncertainty.

[1080] The key is going to be the rent game.

[1081] I mean, at the end of the day for a lot of these business, that's the looming factor is being on the hook.

[1082] You know, not only just to make rent the following month with a compromised, you know, 50 % occupancy, you know, if you can imagine, you know, if you're paying rent for that, you know, you have a model in terms of how much income.

[1083] you know someone brought out the the possibility of like instead of you know forgiving the rent taking the rent and putting it on the back end of it so right now essentially the for the three months you're not you don't need to pay the rent but you'll be add on three months to the end of your lease you know that for me makes sense but for us to turn around and you know work at you know 10 15 percent capacity and then all of a sudden get a bill for six figures you know like okay you owe this so who's gonna who's gonna fill my shoes like so if I can't make it at my location who's gonna come along and take on that rent anyway nobody's gonna do it so they're stuck we're stuck what are we gonna do right it's almost like the deficit that gets established is insurmountable for someone to come on and start from scratch like how much I mean you started that restaurant how long ago this we have a two -year anniversary and I guess It's in four days.

[1084] So I must have found out about it right after you open.

[1085] Yeah.

[1086] How long did it take to prepare to open up that restaurant?

[1087] God, if you want to include looking for a space and trying to find the right location, it's a couple of years.

[1088] So a couple years of preparation and then how long is it take to actually develop the space and set it up correctly?

[1089] What was it before you guys were there?

[1090] It was an empty space.

[1091] I mean, it was a project built from scratch.

[1092] So, you know, going through just the permitting process.

[1093] in L .A. and just going through everything.

[1094] It, you know, you have to hire so many consultants and people in between to get things through.

[1095] It's a lot different than New York.

[1096] So, I mean, for us, we were delayed.

[1097] Like, every project is delayed.

[1098] I mean, it took us over a year to build it out.

[1099] And, you know, you just like, let's open already because each day that passes, you know, you're losing money.

[1100] And when you do something like this, like, were you working as a chef in another place while you were doing this?

[1101] No. I was just basically living off.

[1102] for the proceeds from the sale of my business that I had in London and other other projects and you just kind of like as an entrepreneur you know you're just putting it into the restaurant hoping it opens as quick as you can and then you know you kind of then you have your cash flow you god that's the fucking opening up a business like that must be so insanely stressful yeah because you know especially you know not inheriting an existing restaurant like for me it's like wow, I really believe in the area.

[1103] I love Hollywood and Vine.

[1104] It gave me like certain activity in the area.

[1105] It gave me like a New York vibe.

[1106] I really love the energy.

[1107] Yeah.

[1108] So I look the historic building.

[1109] It was built in 1923.

[1110] It was LA's first skyscraper.

[1111] You know, it was a whole story.

[1112] Like as chefs and restaurant chores, we get romantic about.

[1113] We get connected to the story to what it is.

[1114] And sometimes it overrides the sensibility of, you know, building it out.

[1115] But, You know, you invest in it and you want it to work out and it works out.

[1116] It's great.

[1117] But it's a lot of work and it's a long road to get there.

[1118] That whole area seemed before this like it was experiencing resurgence.

[1119] Like it was like super shady just about 10 years ago.

[1120] Yeah.

[1121] A lot of development, you know, I think that of the course of like the past like within five years and two years, like six billion in development of buildings and hotels.

[1122] And there's a revitalization project that's taking place on Hollywood.

[1123] Boulevard that's going to extend the sidewalks and make it almost prominent -like.

[1124] And, you know, I think that, you know, if any place in L .A. should be that kind of place, it should be there.

[1125] I mean, I saw the revitalization in Times Square, for example, you know, as a kid, like, don't walk down the street and don't go there.

[1126] And now it's Disney, you know, it's a whole other world.

[1127] It's so weird there now.

[1128] Well, now it's really weird.

[1129] But before the pandemic, it was, it's like it became a mall.

[1130] It became a mall.

[1131] It's crazy.

[1132] And, you know, tourists.

[1133] It was the dirtiest place in all of New York.

[1134] It was horrible.

[1135] I've only been there a couple of times back in the day, back in the 90s before it got cleaned up.

[1136] But I remember it was not a place I wanted to stop.

[1137] Yeah, 70s and 80s.

[1138] Like I remember my dad, like, sitting down and it's like, okay, you don't walk down the street.

[1139] And, you know, you always look as if, you know, you're carrying something.

[1140] You know, like you always look like you walk like as if you're carrying a knife or something.

[1141] This is a 12, 13 -year -old kid.

[1142] you know so oh my god what is how do you walk like you carry a knife really confident like that you can handle yourself and you know and not you know not look like a victim remember the thing they would do in the movies where a guy would pretend to have a knife or pretend to have a gun right right pocket over a scarf over a scarf yeah nobody does that anymore right like to have the gun in the pocket move that was that sort of that went away with quicksand yeah like people started talking about those things When you first came out here, was that the first place that you opened?

[1143] Have you had a restaurant in L .A. before?

[1144] No, I did a series of pop -ups.

[1145] So for me, you know, there was a huge lot by Jimmy Kimmel's show, and I basically took 5 ,000 square foot space and I built it out.

[1146] I have, you know, a whole barbecue trailer on a tractor trailer.

[1147] So I have a thousand -gallon propane tank that was custom -welded by her in Franklin and Austin.

[1148] He's amazing.

[1149] One of the top top.

[1150] Franklin's barbecue, that guy?

[1151] Yeah, top barbecue, top fabricator.

[1152] He's got some great YouTube videos.

[1153] Oh, he's tremendous.

[1154] And, you know, aside from, like, the videos in terms of teaching people, he's just a great down -to -earth guy.

[1155] He's fantastic.

[1156] Seems like it.

[1157] Yeah, he's tremendous.

[1158] So I just created just kind of like an homage to barbecue to doing it right.

[1159] I had a little airstream.

[1160] I slept in the parking lot, cooking it overnight, served only lunch.

[1161] You know, everybody got the same thing.

[1162] So I did that for about four years before opened up the restaurant.

[1163] How do you know, Jimmy?

[1164] I did a show back in 2008.

[1165] We hit it off right away.

[1166] And, you know, after the show, like, hey, you want a barbecue?

[1167] So then we end up hanging out the weekend.

[1168] And he's into fly fishing.

[1169] You know, we're into like the same stuff.

[1170] We just became great friends.

[1171] So you actually are into fly fishing.

[1172] So you're talking about it not just as an analogy.

[1173] Oh, I'm obsessed with it.

[1174] Really?

[1175] Oh, where do you go?

[1176] I'm obsessed with it.

[1177] Anywhere and anywhere.

[1178] But a good majority of the places, places that I love in Idaho, Montana, Wyoming.

[1179] Are you one of those catch and release guys?

[1180] Absolutely, 100%.

[1181] How weird is that, though?

[1182] It's not if you look at it as just a system and environment.

[1183] You know, we talk about this process thing.

[1184] It's like, it's the one thing you can invest your time in and you can do into a very old age.

[1185] So if you're lifting weights, you know, there's a certain point where, you know, you're just going to, you know, stop.

[1186] But, like, fly fishing can really invest your time into.

[1187] And there's just something about all the different facets of it that are absolutely amazing.

[1188] So, gosh, I lost my track.

[1189] I'm thinking about it.

[1190] Well, I did a lot of fly fishing when I was a kid.

[1191] Oh, really?

[1192] Where did you go?

[1193] Boston.

[1194] I mostly did it on ponds and lakes.

[1195] So like large mouth bass and stuff?

[1196] Yeah, I did a lot of fishing, but I did a lot of fly fishing as well.

[1197] How much better is, though, is the take on a popper on a fly rod of a largemouth bass, you know?

[1198] It's fun.

[1199] But I also like topwater baits, you know, with a casting rod, a casting reel and like spinning tackle.

[1200] I like a lot of different fishing.

[1201] But fly fishing is for people who think fishing's too easy.

[1202] No, you know, okay, this is what you had asked me to say, the catch and release thing.

[1203] So it's kind of like creating a sustainable culture and environment that gets passed on for generations.

[1204] Because there's so much more than just catching the fish.

[1205] It's that moment of time when you completely block out, you turn your phones, off or most of the time you're out of range you're with a fishing buddy and you're almost like parallel playing and you're sitting there and you're just you're just you focus on a certain riff in the water and you start casting to it and you start figuring out what's going on and there's just some real beauty in the whole process of it that uh to me it's like shoot an elk with a suction cup of the end of the arrow no it's totally different like I got him he's run it off like the suction cup arrow that's going to drop off and he's going to be unharmed um it's just weird I have done catch and release before.

[1206] I just state that.

[1207] But when I think about it, when I spend time alone thinking about it, I'm like, why am I doing this?

[1208] I'm putting a hook through this fucking fish's head.

[1209] Why don't I just leave that poor fish alone unless I want to eat them?

[1210] Like, I like catching fish and then eating them.

[1211] That's my favorite thing to do.

[1212] So maybe I should just stick to that.

[1213] Well, maybe, I mean, you know, for me, like trout doesn't really eat that well.

[1214] There's so many other.

[1215] What doesn't eat well?

[1216] Trout doesn't eat.

[1217] How dare you?

[1218] It doesn't.

[1219] Who are you?

[1220] Compare it.

[1221] chef how can you say such a thing don't you think there's a method to cook trout perfectly where it's delicious i've had trout in restaurants before and it was excellent i'm not i'm not saying it's not delicious but i am saying that there's so many other fish out there that are better that i better and most of the fish i like to eat more rare and raw you know for me like that's more flavor but but the trout for me i don't know like at this point it's like a sacrilege to kill trout i mean i just identify with it just the whole process but well trout tastes better than large mouth bass oh yeah and i've released i've caught and released large mouth bass before yeah yeah yeah yeah because they're in a pond and it's the stagnant water it's swampy you know i've tasted them it is weird that you know that is a that is a factor the swampy well because uh smallmouth bass i've eaten it tastes much better oh yeah i liken it the same thing to my dry age room with that that concept is that, you know, if you don't have that free -flowing air and that kind of that oxygen in the room, it has an impact on flavor.

[1222] If you have like a swampy, wet environment, it's going to impact the beef.

[1223] I think about that all the time.

[1224] But here's the monkey wrench into that theory.

[1225] Catfish.

[1226] Catfish is delicious.

[1227] It's delicious.

[1228] But if you have a catfish from a pond, it's not as delicious.

[1229] So like river catfish is what you want?

[1230] Because it's flowing water?

[1231] Probably.

[1232] I mean, I've had catfish that is just absolutely phenomenal.

[1233] But I've also had catfish that was kind of muddy, you know.

[1234] Right, right.

[1235] And there's different methods that people used to try to get rid of that muddy.

[1236] Like I've seen people soak them in milk.

[1237] I've heard of people even soaking them in Coca -Cola, which is really weird.

[1238] I've never heard that.

[1239] I've heard milk.

[1240] I've heard, you know, buttermilk breaks it down a little bit, you know.

[1241] But then again, if you're going to fry anything with buttermilk and crust, then, you know, you could have cardboard in there and taste good, you know.

[1242] Oh, really?

[1243] Yeah, right?

[1244] It's like the spices and the crust is what you're eating more than the actual flavor.

[1245] of the flesh itself.

[1246] Yeah, last time I entertained fly fish.

[1247] I haven't done it in years.

[1248] But last time I entertained it, I was with my family.

[1249] We were in Montana.

[1250] We were taking a whitewater rafting trip down the Gallatin River, which is really fun.

[1251] But as we're going there, there was all these guys that were fly fishing, and they seemed like the most peaceful people in the world.

[1252] It's so chill.

[1253] Just casting and just slowly manipulating this.

[1254] And then they were catching these trout and then just gently catching them and then releasing them.

[1255] And we have a group of guys that we do this with.

[1256] We travel all around.

[1257] There's maybe about like eight to ten of us where we'll go and we'll go on a trip together.

[1258] Jimmy Kimmel does this with you?

[1259] Oh, yeah.

[1260] Oh, he is obsessed with fly fishing.

[1261] You know, we are both.

[1262] Like, this is a whole journey.

[1263] We logged the trips.

[1264] We talk about what was caught.

[1265] Do you rather tie your own flies?

[1266] I've done it, but I don't do it now.

[1267] I mean, with the restaurant, the way it is, you know, it's always just so time consuming.

[1268] And now that they make such beautiful patterns, but there is maybe the next level, like, when I retire, quote, unquote, you know, like delve into.

[1269] I have, like, a whole mailbox desk with all, like, the hackle and the everything there, but it's just sitting there.

[1270] You know how you talk about how making your own knives is like another level.

[1271] I would imagine that tying your own fly.

[1272] It's the same thing.

[1273] And then catching, like, a large trout.

[1274] You know, it's that whole process to lead up to, you have a pattern, or it's even just like, what are they eating, seeing what's hatching coming off and matching the hatch, or there's some, the temperature of the water, the water levels, the speed, like the first thing we check before we go on a trip is what are the water levels?

[1275] What's the water flow like?

[1276] Because, you know, if it's going too fast, like the trout are like getting like all the dirt, everything, you know, hitting them in the face, you know.

[1277] but like there's a certain like level where you look for where it's best for you know so it's always like okay what are the conditions like you know you go through it so it's like a whole process before like the lead in that how did you start well i've always loved you know fishing like any kind deep sea anything as a kid like it was my escape since i was a little kid but um i think that i always looked at fly fishing as like the higher level you know i always aspired there was like like i saw I remember being on the Delaware River and I was at camp and there was a guy just underneath a bridge and he just kind of picked up like 20, 30 yards of line.

[1278] He just laid it down and I was up at high level and I just saw the fish come up and bite it.

[1279] And I was just like, whoa, you know, just like blew me away.

[1280] And then from that point on, I always wanted to.

[1281] And then I bought my first fly rod and you always remember your, you know, you always remember your first fly rod.

[1282] I still have it.

[1283] and it just started the obsession there.

[1284] There's just something about the connection to the fish and the whole thing, as opposed to just kind of like going on a boat and trolling and waiting for them to strike.

[1285] Like this is more like hunting.

[1286] What you're doing is, it's like you're trying to find the location of the fish, and then you have to place the fly, and you have to like let it drift without any drag.

[1287] And it's like this combination of skill and intuition and hunting, that's the excitement.

[1288] where it's just catching and throwing meat in the thing.

[1289] Okay, I mean, I've done it and I still do it.

[1290] I like me on the water, but fly fishing is just like this higher level thing.

[1291] Do you do any kind of fishing with lures other than fly fishing?

[1292] Do you ever like...

[1293] Not really, and I can't even, like, there's so much social pressure, you know, amongst my group anyway because they get on me because all, most of the guys are dry, like Jimmy is like dry fly only.

[1294] Like even if like no fish...

[1295] We should explain dry flies or flies that float on the surface.

[1296] the surface it's like the epitome of like delicate presentation and then underneath you know you can basically you follow like the life cycle of an insect so in the eggs go to the bottom and then the larva comes up and it kind of floats the surface and then it pops open and it flies away most of the fish eat all the food that's subsurface so before it even gets to the surface so their eyes are like straight down.

[1297] When the conditions are right, the trout are looking up because the hatch happens.

[1298] So that's when all the bugs are coming up.

[1299] And the take is you see the fish and it's more dramatic.

[1300] Jimmy is like straight up like dry fly fishermen.

[1301] Like even if like, and it all comes from like one of our mentors and this is Huey Lewis.

[1302] Like he's part of.

[1303] Louis Lewis in the news?

[1304] He's one of like he is like one of like he's one of our group.

[1305] Hip to be square.

[1306] Huey Lewis?

[1307] 100%.

[1308] He lives in Montana.

[1309] and he is like we talk about every year fishing on the bitter root for the swala hatch which is a certain kind of almost like a salmon fly it's very large and when these things come up and hatch like fish are huge and they're hitting and jumping out of the water it's very dramatic so wow and does everybody catch them release or does any do you ever run into people that catch them and cook them not in our group it's very looked down upon huge you'd never I mean even me like I'll Well, like, they tease me because if they're not biting on the flies, like, I'll drop a beadhead, which is, like, underneath the fly.

[1310] And so it's, like, kind of like, they call it, like, bobber fishing.

[1311] You're cheating?

[1312] Cheating.

[1313] So it's not, it's like, they call it down and dirty as opposed to, you know, on the surface.

[1314] That's so silly.

[1315] Yeah.

[1316] Isn't it crazy?

[1317] Sometimes I just want to see a fish at the end.

[1318] Listen, there's bow hunters.

[1319] You know, I bow hunt, and there's bow hunters that also rifle hunt.

[1320] And then there's bow hunters that look at rifle hunters like it's like, it's like, you know, legalized poaching.

[1321] Like, what are you doing?

[1322] You're using a rifle on an animal.

[1323] Same thing.

[1324] But then there's other people that have a really good ethical argument for that.

[1325] Like, hey, if I am at 200 yards and I see an elk or a deer and I squeeze that trigger, that is a dead animal 100 % of the time.

[1326] It's a huge responsibility.

[1327] It's not 100%.

[1328] It's not even 100%, but it's very high 90s.

[1329] Yeah.

[1330] That's a huge responsibility for the animal.

[1331] I mean, you know, you want the animal just to, you know, not.

[1332] suffer well it's also there's something about the difficulty factor of bow hunting it's very effective when the arrow hits the animal the animals die like they could die as quick if not quicker than a rifle with a well -placed arrow because they bleed so quickly it goes through the vitals and they're done in seconds but it's harder to do and it requires an immense amount of discipline and dedication and I'm sure fly fishing requires some but with bow hunting you literally have to practice every day.

[1333] I mean, you think you saw in the back.

[1334] I have an archery range in the garage back there where you see there's a 45 -yard range and I shoot arrows every day.

[1335] I love it.

[1336] I have a bow, too.

[1337] I've never gone hunting.

[1338] A PSC.

[1339] I have a PSC.

[1340] Yeah, it's beautiful.

[1341] It's a great bow.

[1342] I went down with my friend, Glenn Jonas.

[1343] He took me down.

[1344] He's like, hunter.

[1345] He's like, this is what you get, and I got it.

[1346] And I don't get enough practice in.

[1347] I've never gone hunting with it.

[1348] So, you know.

[1349] Yeah, it's not something I recommend.

[1350] And when I have friends, though, I mean, I, you know.

[1351] I have friends that want to do it.

[1352] They're like, I want to go bohunting with you.

[1353] I'm like, no, you don't.

[1354] Yeah.

[1355] If you did, you'd be out there practicing every day.

[1356] Like, it's a thing that once you realize what's at stake, how difficult it is to do, how much respect you have to have for the art of archery and how much, how much effort has to be put into the discipline.

[1357] Most people don't want to do that.

[1358] I mean, if you really want to hunt your own meat, and this is one of the things that's come up during this pandemic, because people are really scared about the food supply, and they're scared about not having food in their home that they can rely upon.

[1359] And also, before that, there was this whole thing about gathering organic meat.

[1360] Like people were worried about the source of the meat.

[1361] They were worried about animals that weren't treated correctly and factory farming and all the different things that people should be concerned about.

[1362] And the ultimate solution to that is get an animal that's in the wild.

[1363] This way, this animal's been living the way they've been living for hundreds.

[1364] of thousands of years and you just you you stealthily make your way through their world get yourself into a position and then through hard work and dedication and understanding and take an animal ethically yeah i'm with you on that yeah i think it's great i mean and also i love that you know the responsibility you take for it you know it's it's like you know some people don't understand hunting they think it's just a bunch of yahoo's going out there and some maybe are but you know the people that I know that take it seriously, you know, take a huge responsibility with it.

[1365] The people that I know that do it, that take a huge responsibility, they're some of the best people I've ever met in my life and the most dedicated.

[1366] And the kind of hunting that I do, which is western mountain elk hunting, requires physical fitness.

[1367] It requires incredible stamina because you're going, gaining and losing thousands of feet of elevation in a day.

[1368] You might trek 15, 20 miles every day.

[1369] I mean, you have to be.

[1370] fit and you have to be ready and then you have to be able to keep your nerves and then that final moment yeah you know it's it's like yeah you could hunt for 10 days for one moment so you're you're hunting for 10 days for 15 seconds that's it's profound like the build up it's amazing you know you got to keep your shit together my it's it's hard and there's no catch and release and bow hunting yeah but when I sit down and I feed my family the code is the same the code though if you really look at it it's I mean if you just focus on the catch release or whatever, but there's a code to it.

[1371] I mean, you get it.

[1372] You know, I believe in that.

[1373] Yeah, the code, the difference between bow hunting and regular hunting versus regular fishing and fly fishing.

[1374] But even just regular hunting, you know, and bow hunting.

[1375] I'm just saying you're hunting with guys that, you know, have an ethical responsibility, understand the environment, you know, and follow the rules.

[1376] And I think that, you know, that's amazing.

[1377] Well, there's also So the thing to consider is there's millions, in fact, billions of dollars every year that go into wildlife habitat, go into preservation, all the different people that work as game wardens are all paid by this.

[1378] And this is all money that's taken from hunting licenses, the Pickman Robertson Act, they take a certain percentage of, I think it's 10 % of all the proceeds from ammunition sales.

[1379] licenses, equipment, all that stuff goes to preservation.

[1380] And it actually is the number one, the source, the number one source for economics in terms of financial, like the amount of resources that go to managing these areas and keeping these animals healthy and monitoring them and monitoring their populations and even reintroducing different animals like Rocky Mountain sheep and all these different animals that elk that get introduced into all these different places all that money comes from hunting and it's crazy to think that at one point in time most of the animals in North America that we hunt on a regular basis were on the verge of extinction including white -tailed deer which is crazy to think if you live in a place that has white -tailed deer because there's so many of them it's insane but there's more white -tailed deer today than they were when Columbus landed it's really really weird And this is an incredible system.

[1381] The wildlife management system that's in place in North America, including the management of public lands and the access to public lands, is a truly special place.

[1382] It's truly special here in North America, and that is because of the people that love hunting and love these wild areas.

[1383] Yeah, it makes sense.

[1384] I mean, I love it.

[1385] The sustainability factor is everything.

[1386] And I think that's also why the catch -and -release thing.

[1387] I mean, if everybody kept everything that they caught, but there's just not enough, like, in that environment to pull, you know.

[1388] And people say that about hunting, too, that if everybody went out and hunted, there wouldn't be animals left, which is really true.

[1389] But everyone's not going to do it.

[1390] That's like, say, if everybody became a marathon runner, the streets would be filled.

[1391] But then you're not going to, that's not appealing to a lot of people.

[1392] You know, everyone's not going to do it.

[1393] And it's very difficult, and especially the stuff that I like to do, it's just very, you can do it.

[1394] A lot of people do it, but not nearly as many as go to the supermarket.

[1395] When you get your meat, do you have a specific rancher that you use?

[1396] You know, it's a great question.

[1397] And it's, you know, everything is a process and it's part of the process.

[1398] So just kind of like aging the meat and then putting on the plate.

[1399] But there's a whole backstory to this.

[1400] I've developed a relationship.

[1401] One of my closest friends and my mentor in beef is this guy by the name of John Tarpulf.

[1402] and, you know, he's, he picks out the cattle and then it goes through the system and, you know, they audit the system.

[1403] And he, I knew him before he came on board with Nyman Ranch.

[1404] So I knew when he had his own slaughterhouse in Granite City, Illinois, and I met him through the guys through master purveyors.

[1405] And then he became, I guess, the VP of Beef in Nyman Ranch.

[1406] And so I invest most of my focus with him, and he's taught me. So he's picking out a lot of my cattle.

[1407] And that gets, it's done through family farms, all antibiotic -free, steroid -free, raised ethically.

[1408] Animals die with dignity.

[1409] They're not like cattle prodded and pushed along.

[1410] How do they die?

[1411] Well, most of them, well, all of them, it's basically it's like a pin, you know.

[1412] It's like a stun bolt.

[1413] Like no country for old men, that thing.

[1414] Exactly.

[1415] That's exactly how it's done.

[1416] But it's done in a certain system.

[1417] Temple Grandin transformed the entire system of, of abattoirs in this country.

[1418] She's, do you know about Temple Grandin?

[1419] No. Such an interesting woman.

[1420] Autistic, but she actually is like the cattle whisperer.

[1421] And she can go into the environment and she can see just like a shadow of light.

[1422] going on to the floor and all of a sudden the cattle will see it, they'll stop, and it builds all the stress.

[1423] And as a result, the stress creates, you know, fear and worry in the animal.

[1424] Why are they afraid of light?

[1425] It just can be something normal.

[1426] I mean, if they walk clockwise as opposed to counterclockwise in the circle, all these things have an impact.

[1427] She's written several books on it.

[1428] They did a whole series on her, like a great movie, I think, on HBO.

[1429] Claire Daines played her.

[1430] and but she'll like literally crawl through the abattoir before to understand all the angles and advise you know so the animals don't get super stressed a stressed animal has an impact on the quality of the beef and also you know you don't want to torture anything you know there's a responsibility behind you know eating meat I think so you know for me it starts not only with the family farms that they're raising the cattle the feet that they're finishing the cattle on, and then how they're transported, you know, and then how they go through the system in terms of the abattoir storage, and then come to me. I like to receive a majority of my beef in combos, which means it never sees the inside of a cryovac bag, the plastic bags.

[1431] For me, dry aging that way is also, it preserves a lot of the natural, good, friendly bacteria that's on the meat as opposed to, like, putting in the meat.

[1432] in a bag and then they put steam to like, you know, almost sterilize the meat and they put it along.

[1433] And so there's all these different flavors that are gathered.

[1434] But I think from like John Tarboff and Nyman Ranch, you know, they really have been my go -to nowadays.

[1435] But it's like John and his sons, you know, they really have educated me on beef and and give me a lot of pride.

[1436] And, you know, there is a genetic factor for tenderness and beef.

[1437] I mean, I didn't realize this.

[1438] But, you know, just, oh, that one's really nicely marbled.

[1439] But it's not, like, you have to look at the grain of the beef.

[1440] So, like, you're looking at the eye.

[1441] It's not only just the fat.

[1442] It's like how the fat is dispersed.

[1443] And that has a huge impact also on stress.

[1444] I mean, you can look at a piece of meat, and they, sometimes they'll call it, they'll be rejected, we'll call the dark cutter.

[1445] The meat comes almost like dark, deep, like almost like burgundy red.

[1446] And when the animals like that, the, and I've tasted it, you know, just because I was curious, but the quality of the beef is just, just because of stress, the adrenaline goes through the animal and taints the meat.

[1447] And that's what makes it darkly?

[1448] Yeah, taints the meat.

[1449] But what about grass -fed beef?

[1450] Grass -fed beef?

[1451] I don't, you know, it's a great question.

[1452] You know, for me, I don't look at grass -fed versus grain -fed.

[1453] I look at nutrition.

[1454] Okay.

[1455] So just because something's grass -fed, I think sometimes the animals themselves, it's more stressful to eat grass that is not nutrient -rich.

[1456] So I believe in grass -fed with responsible grass farmers that are then allowing the cattle, you know, to do grass -fed right, which I've experienced over in Ireland, Scotland, and in England, is it's literally, it's about the nutrition.

[1457] So, I mean, you go out and you say, okay, this animal is grass -fed and you taste the meat.

[1458] It's like, this meat is horrible as opposed to another grass -fed.

[1459] And like, this is great.

[1460] So it's not like absolute.

[1461] So for me, it's really more about the nutrition, like how healthy can you maintain the animal.

[1462] I'm not talking about, like, force feeding the animal, but I think the right characteristics of beef that you and I love really come from grain finished beef as a mainstay.

[1463] But you can find some grass -fed that's competitive with that, but it's hard to find.

[1464] The argument about grass -fed beef is primarily a taste if you prefer it, and I do a lot of times.

[1465] but also health, that it's healthier for you, the essential fatty acids of a grass -fed cow are different.

[1466] That's true.

[1467] But again, you know, it depends on how you look at steak.

[1468] You know, look, if you're an everyday bee feeder, you know, I think that that conversation is completely valid.

[1469] But if you're someone who looks at, you know, steak as an extravagance or something that is, you know, almost a celebration to enjoy, grain, you know, grain -finished beef is, it's like butter.

[1470] I mean, there's no, the taste itself, it's deep, it's rich.

[1471] Remember we were talking earlier about, like, Wagyu cattle or, you know, everything has its place.

[1472] But, you know, for that steakhouse experience, I would never want a grass -fed steak for, like, that broiler steak, which is cooked on, like, that for me, it's like a really treat.

[1473] it's a real treat it's it's something like you can't get like i like black angus or angus herford cross um that's the that's the that's the cattle that for me brings americana on the plate yeah boardain felt the same way he was not interested in grass fed beef the same way i am yeah he but there's different levels of grass fed i mean i've had grass fed and again it could rival any grain fed like over in scotland and ireland i mean look at their grass it's so nutrient rich.

[1474] Over here, it's a different story.

[1475] Especially here, right?

[1476] Because it's dry and then I've done enough water.

[1477] Over there, it's rainy every day.

[1478] Rainy, it's green.

[1479] It's constantly, the cattle is like they're growing, they're own, their substitute, you know, they supplement barley, that they grow on the estate.

[1480] You know, the whole thing is just, it works.

[1481] So like this whole concept of like saying grass fed versus grain fed, I think that there's, there's another story and that for me is really the nutrition of the animal.

[1482] But I do agree with you there.

[1483] There is the concept of, you know, healthy nutrition that you'll find higher, you know, higher traits of that.

[1484] But I'm not a nutritionist at the end of the day.

[1485] You know, are you aware of the carnivore diet?

[1486] I am.

[1487] Yeah.

[1488] Have you ever messed around with that?

[1489] Yeah.

[1490] How often do you eat meat yourself?

[1491] Well, I taste it every day.

[1492] But to sit down and have a steak, it's a rarity.

[1493] But I eat a lot of red meat.

[1494] like I eat quite often.

[1495] But you don't sit down and have a steak very often.

[1496] I can't.

[1497] I can't.

[1498] I can't do it.

[1499] Because I taste it all the time.

[1500] So like to sit there and eat a whole steak.

[1501] I mean, I might eat a half a steak.

[1502] You know, it's just, I have that flavor.

[1503] It's like it's a whole.

[1504] For a whole month I did it.

[1505] For the month of January, they call it World Carnivore Month.

[1506] I eat mostly rib -eyes and elk steak and eggs.

[1507] What did it do to your mind?

[1508] I think I've got more aggressive, and I'm kind of joking about that, and maybe it gave me more energy.

[1509] I don't know.

[1510] It's different.

[1511] Something happens.

[1512] It makes sense to me that if you're a cow, you don't need to be aggressive, because you're basically just eating grass and chilling most of the time.

[1513] However, there's bulls.

[1514] Bulls are very aggressive.

[1515] But so that I don't know if my analogy makes sense, but if you eat meat and only meat, I really feel like there's some kind of a shift that happens with, I mean, virtually no carbohydrates.

[1516] And I might have had like a couple of pieces of chili mango and I think I had a few olives or something like that for the whole month.

[1517] Right.

[1518] And I felt great.

[1519] You would think you would feel like shit.

[1520] I did not feel like shit at all.

[1521] I felt really good.

[1522] and I had incredible energy.

[1523] But I got bored.

[1524] Yeah.

[1525] I got bored.

[1526] I wanted to eat other things.

[1527] But there's in, you know, here we are, it's May, and that's a few months ago.

[1528] But I think sometimes like, hmm, maybe I should get back to that.

[1529] I mean, it was only five months ago, right?

[1530] But it, I lost a lot of weight.

[1531] I got down to, and that's the other thing, too.

[1532] I wonder, like, whether or not how lean I would get or whether or not that would level off.

[1533] but I wound up, I think I wound up losing 12 pounds or somewhere, somewhere in that range.

[1534] Yeah.

[1535] Was it a lot water weight though, no?

[1536] I'm imagined so.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] Because in general.

[1539] Because you're depleting your glycogen stores, you know?

[1540] So at the end of the day, you know, you're just like, you know, thirsty for that in your, in your cells, you know.

[1541] But it didn't really fuck with my workouts.

[1542] You know, I thought, I worried about that, that it was going to mess with my workouts, but I had good energy.

[1543] but again I only did it for a month I've had friends my friend Trevor did it for I think he said he did it for six months but after a while he felt like he was dropping off but then I know people that have been doing it for years and they feel great I lean towards that I can't do it like as a strict you know regiment you know but have you ever tried to do it as a strict when you say you can't do it as a strict regiment I have you know I have but not when I have the restaurant in operation because you know I'm sitting there and, you know, I'm tasting everything, you know, making sure everything's right and it includes like a pasta or something.

[1544] It could just be like a bite and just messes with you.

[1545] Oh, yeah.

[1546] Yeah, the greatest thing in the world to me is intermittent fasting.

[1547] You know, for me, it's like, you know, not eat, you know, from that period of time and, you know, start eating at like 4 o 'clock in the afternoon.

[1548] And that, for me, has always been like a godsend.

[1549] That just that works.

[1550] Yeah, that makes a big impact.

[1551] And especially for people that are struggling with their weight, you know, it's so easy to just shove things in your face it's so easy just to continue to eat when you're really not even hungry anymore you're bored like for me the struggle is late at night you know when i come home late at night especially when i was coming home from the comedy store i just want to fucking eat you know i'd want to eat chips yeah or i want to eat some bullshit yeah it's always bullshit when you're tired too it's always the worst food once you get sugar out of your system you don't crave it but once you eat a little bit of sugar then it's you constantly crave it yes yeah it's that that that devil that there's something evil about sugar.

[1552] It's ridiculous.

[1553] It's so devilish.

[1554] There's something about it, but it's also so great.

[1555] Like, how can they be, how can those two things coexist?

[1556] It's crazy.

[1557] Because like an amazing, like just ice cream with fudge and some whipped cream is so good sometimes.

[1558] But then the feeling that I have afterwards, like you fucking dummy, why did you do this yourself?

[1559] 100%.

[1560] But I mean, there's like a feeling like, You take a spoon of that fudge and ice cream You put it in like It's like it goes through your whole body I know your body's so happy For that brief period of time But then it's just a trick Because then you feel like you get poisoned 100 % I remember one time I was eating real strict And then I decided to go off the reservation For a day And I had a cheeseburger With fries And a giant shake A big chocolate shake And my fucking head hurt I had a lay on the couch And my My kids were asking me questions.

[1561] I couldn't even answer.

[1562] I was like, what are you?

[1563] I don't know.

[1564] What?

[1565] Who am I?

[1566] Where am I?

[1567] It was like my head was in a vice.

[1568] It was really, it felt like I got drugged.

[1569] Yeah.

[1570] I was just like, oh, I had nothing.

[1571] Because your body's also super sensitive.

[1572] Because it wasn't eating like that.

[1573] Yeah.

[1574] Yeah, that's the dance between delicious and nutritious.

[1575] Like, what is that?

[1576] How do you manage that dance?

[1577] How do you navigate that dance?

[1578] I'm pretty disciplined, like, you know, I'll get into, I mean, up into this, like, for the past, I mean, I was super into working out, you know, daily, and then I got so focused on the restaurant, you know, it just was like, I don't have time.

[1579] I got to get back to it because I felt so good and so much energy.

[1580] But in terms of, like, the dance for me, I'm like just little snippets of tasting good food, like, great food, like, great food, like, all day um while you're cooking while i'm cooking what is your day like when you get there like when do you get there when do you leave well now um normally just normally um i'd get in at let's say anywhere from 10 like 10 o 'clock and then could leave as late you know typically like 10 30 11 so you guys have a lunch crowd no it's even no lunch it's just preparation really well i have barbecue for lunch and so that's good so i would like sleep there overnight get it going.

[1581] I have this amazing chef, Marcus.

[1582] You sleep there.

[1583] Yeah, you sleep there because, you know, we're talking about the temperatures and everything.

[1584] So there's a certain time when you need to wrap the beef, for example, in butcher paper.

[1585] It usually happens at like 4 .35 in the morning.

[1586] And if you don't do it, you know, you miss the window to do it.

[1587] So I don't like to hold the meat too long.

[1588] So to get the better quality, you know, you have to write it.

[1589] A lot of people, they'll just make it earlier, put it into the warmer, and it will hold.

[1590] But, you know, I think that there's a huge difference.

[1591] So, you know, we'll wrap it really, really early.

[1592] So that's usually what happens.

[1593] So you, where do you sleep?

[1594] Downstairs.

[1595] You just get a couch or something?

[1596] You get on the couch?

[1597] Wow.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] And you set the alarm for 430 and these.

[1600] Yeah.

[1601] Oh, it's painful.

[1602] So you want to be a chef, huh?

[1603] Well, that's it, you know.

[1604] There's the agony and the ecstasy.

[1605] Yeah.

[1606] You know, that's it.

[1607] But my usual.

[1608] routine like particularly now like i'll get in by 10 o 'clock i take a list of what's you know going on like for that day pack out meals whatever and then finish like 10 like eight eight but anywhere from between eight to 10 that's a long day it's a long day i'm feeling it lately i mean all like the muscles in my hands like i don't even know what's going on that's why i say i have to start training again because i'm like my transitional movement is slow i'm like an old man like i get out of bed i'm like I make the noise.

[1609] It's just been terrible, you know.

[1610] Well, I also imagine this stress is not good for you either and probably not good for your sleep.

[1611] I've been compartmentalizing a lot of what's going on right now.

[1612] You know, that's the only way I'm getting through.

[1613] You know, I have to be strong for my team.

[1614] I have to give really strong leadership.

[1615] I need to inspire them just through example.

[1616] That's the only way because a lot of people, they just want to take off and they want to collect unemployment, you know?

[1617] The way it's working now, they make more money.

[1618] being on unemployment than working it's crazy so um yeah so i have to lead from the front first one in first one out and uh but i compartmentalize so the stress is like there i'm just again i'm focused like okay i got to feed the hospital workers i got to feed st joseph and that well how could i come up with something that the neighborhood wants like to indulge on whether it's meatloaf and peas and mashed potatoes or it's fried chicken or it's, you know, chicken with grains, lemon, and honey, you know, something like that.

[1619] Well, I can only hope that this is over soon enough and that things will bounce back.

[1620] No, me too.

[1621] But you got an amazing restaurant.

[1622] It's really great.

[1623] I love eating there and I'm grateful for you.

[1624] I can't wait to come back there again and I really hope that it's a short amount of time.

[1625] I mean, I don't know when and how.

[1626] I don't know how it's going to.

[1627] We're tough.

[1628] restaurant people are tough oh you have to be just the fucking hours that you put in man do the best that we can that's all you can do you know well thanks brother thanks for being here thanks so much for having you appreciate you and uh hopefully next time i see you is be at your restaurant yes all right thank you bye everybody bless you did it thank you my pleasure brother