EXPERTS ON EXPERT: Pete Carroll

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert.

[1] Hi, Monica Padman.

[2] Hi, Dach Shepherd.

[3] Today, we're stepping out of our lane a little bit in an exciting way.

[4] Very.

[5] To talk to head coach of the Seattle Seahawks and Executive Vice President Pete Carroll.

[6] And, you know, why we believe he transcends the sports genre?

[7] Because you and I aren't necessarily diehard football fans.

[8] I wouldn't say so.

[9] You certainly liked attending those GA games.

[10] Oh, God.

[11] Yeah, you GA.

[12] UGA, sorry, sorry.

[13] And I, of course, have some interest in the NFL.

[14] But Pete Carroll is so much more than that.

[15] He is, you know, he's virtually one of these organizational psychologists.

[16] We learned of all of his interesting strategies when we interviewed Michael Jervais, which people really liked, which was a performance expert, psychologist.

[17] And he just has some really, really interesting takes on getting organizations to be prolific and achieve their goals.

[18] And I think he has an incredible story of personal.

[19] I love perseverance.

[20] Success, failure, success, failure, fired, fired, hired, fired.

[21] I mean, he stayed the course.

[22] Yeah, it's really inspirational.

[23] So please enjoy Coach Pete Carroll.

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[27] Hello.

[28] Hello.

[29] This is kind of intimidating here.

[30] Is it?

[31] A couple things right out of the gates.

[32] You're incredibly fit.

[33] Can I say that?

[34] Can we acknowledge that?

[35] You can say it ever you want.

[36] Are you on a specific?

[37] What did you expect?

[38] Let me start by, I think the most important thing for me to say and admit is I know so little about football.

[39] It's ridiculous.

[40] The reason I was attracted to having you on is simply because I think of your many philosophies that, again, I learn mostly from Michael.

[41] My interest in you is more as like an organization.

[42] organizational psychologist than per se the game itself, which is not to say I don't like the game.

[43] I just, that's okay.

[44] Yeah, I don't have a ton of knowledge on it.

[45] So what I watch is hard knocks on HBO, last chance you on Netflix, and a lot of these coaches are past their prime.

[46] Let's just say that physically.

[47] Physically, they're a little heavier.

[48] They don't seem to be doing the drills.

[49] But you are an incredible shape.

[50] That's all I wanted to tip my hat to you.

[51] Working at it.

[52] Do you eat in a specific way?

[53] A mindful way?

[54] Yeah, I do.

[55] My wife and I were influenced to go plant based a while back.

[56] a couple years ago.

[57] Oh, no kidding.

[58] Yeah, so we've done that and really recognized it's made a difference, you know, just in feeling well and getting rid of the aches and pains and the arthritis type of feelings that you have, you know, from inflammation, all that.

[59] I don't have those anymore.

[60] I used to have a lot.

[61] I mean, I've got all kinds of stuff that I've done to my body that warrant that kind of response, you know, but I don't feel that stuff anymore.

[62] So are you off animal protein entirely or sometimes you splurge?

[63] No, I figured out a pattern of it, you know, so I still eat eggs and, and I don't eat me to rarely.

[64] Oh, really?

[65] Yeah.

[66] Yeah, so I'm, And then are you getting enough exercise just being out on that field, walking back and forth and all that stuff?

[67] Or do you have to actually set aside time to do?

[68] No, I just have a little routine that I do before I go out every day and go out on the field a couple times.

[69] I do something before and that's enough to keep me going with the running around that I do.

[70] I make a point of trying to run places and, you know, just keep moving and I throw the ball all the time.

[71] And so I'm active.

[72] I'm going to further embarrass you.

[73] Okay.

[74] Monica, would you agree?

[75] Your skin looks so healthy.

[76] It does.

[77] It looks like you're on a plant -based diet.

[78] Your skin looks radiant and healthy.

[79] Did you know this is mostly a cosmetic show?

[80] I don't know if you were warned about that.

[81] Well, thankfully.

[82] Yeah, so you just, you look like you're really doing well.

[83] You were born in 1951 in the same year my mother was, and so I'm just looking at how you guys have both run your thing, and it looks great.

[84] Okay.

[85] Congratulations.

[86] You grew up in San Francisco?

[87] I was born in San Francisco, grew up in Marin.

[88] What did mom and dad do?

[89] My dad was in the wholesale liquor business for 40 years in San Francisco, and had really a great gig.

[90] That's a job that demands some charisma, yeah.

[91] He was a sales manager for the most part and became a VP later on.

[92] We had a really interesting setup.

[93] They had to serve all of San Francisco.

[94] And in that, he had salespeople that had to call on all the different accounts.

[95] So he had every background you could ever imagine represented throughout the whole culture of San Francisco.

[96] And in Christmas time, he used to take me in the office for one day, you know.

[97] It was just such a mixed bag of people, you know.

[98] Yeah.

[99] You know, from Epstein, Pete La Rock.

[100] It was an amazing crowd that we messed with.

[101] It was a good upbringing.

[102] Unified only in a huge appetite for liquor.

[103] Yeah, exactly.

[104] Because to meet those reps that go bar to bar, you do a lot of drinks.

[105] And my mom was such a supporter.

[106] She supported so well.

[107] Oh, that's great.

[108] As I was reading about you, there's so many themes that are interesting about you that interest me in particular.

[109] I mean, one of them, just to announce my thesis statement on you is, what a fine example of failure, success, failure success, failure success, and fortitude and keep going.

[110] And I'm far less interested in someone's experience winning a Super Bowl as I am someone who got over a gigantic setback.

[111] I think that's the kind of more relatable thing most of us go through.

[112] I doubt many of us will hoist that trophy over our head, but most of us will experience pretty significant setbacks in our fortitude medal will be tested regularly.

[113] And I think there's a lot of mental gymnastics that probably go along with that.

[114] Yeah, I've been through the kind of whiplashes, and they really have never affected me negatively at all.

[115] They've always kind of strengthened my perspective in the next step that I take, just help in ways that I hate to admit, because I like the other people to learn the hard way.

[116] Yeah, yeah.

[117] I don't want to learn the hard way, but it's really, it's just added to the mentality, really, and made the other aspect of the good things that have happened even stronger.

[118] What's clear in your route, though, I think, is that there are a lot of opportunities for your ego to have prevented you from taking the next best step, and we'll get into it.

[119] But I think there's been many moments.

[120] I like you looking at it that way.

[121] Yeah, yeah.

[122] There's been many moments, I think, where someone with a more raging ego would have said, well, I can't go backwards.

[123] I'm not going to do that.

[124] I'm going to sit here and wait until I get the thing that I think I'm entitled to get.

[125] And I often admire people with some flexibility in the roadmap.

[126] And it appears at least that you had some flexibility.

[127] There's been some humbling along the way.

[128] Yeah, well, me too.

[129] You don't get into show business and not get your ass kicked every few months.

[130] But as a kid, you were just a polyathlet.

[131] Yeah, you did basketball and baseball and football, but you weren't a big guy, right?

[132] In your freshman area, no, something happened to me in about eighth grade time when everybody started to grow and things started to come out and pop out and hair and this and all that.

[133] That didn't happen.

[134] I missed puberty, you know, not until really into my sophomore year at high school.

[135] that I even start moving, you know, I was just a dink when I got to freshman year.

[136] And up until that time, I had always been able to do everything.

[137] And I could play everything and be one of the best guys at everything I was doing.

[138] And all of the sudden, I wasn't strong enough and I wasn't fast enough.

[139] And I just didn't have what it was necessary to be one of the best players.

[140] And it just rocked my world, you know.

[141] And so I went all the way through high school, just pissed off.

[142] And my friends would not know it.

[143] They wouldn't see it.

[144] But I was pissed the whole time because I wasn't the person that I knew inside that should be showing up.

[145] you know yeah it was everything was latent and hidden and all of that and i still played everything and did okay by my standard's not anywhere near as good as it should have been it just was really frustrating i just developed the biggest chip on my shoulder yeah it has really kind of generated this mentality about competition and being competitive and and always competing i mean i talk that way because that's what i am that's that's what came out of that experience i had such high expectations for myself and nobody knew you know and nobody could see it so it was always You probably, I assume you had the coordination and you had the hand -eye stuff and you just didn't have the size.

[146] Yeah, just didn't have the power.

[147] They had you at 110 in your freshman year.

[148] That was, you know.

[149] I was going to say.

[150] Yeah, that was leaning on, you know, on something to push down on the scale, you know.

[151] I had to go see a doctor.

[152] Dr. Nutting was the guy that I had to go see so that he could look at me, strip down, look at me and say, is he mature enough to play a high school football?

[153] My freshman football picture, the team picture, I look like the mascots sitting there.

[154] Right.

[155] Yeah.

[156] It was a nightmare, you know.

[157] So, anyway.

[158] Was there anyone in your life that you were open to about this?

[159] No. Keep it all nice.

[160] No, I just sucked it all up.

[161] Yeah, I just had to just waded out, you know.

[162] Well, then you eventually grew, 11 third.

[163] Yeah.

[164] When I left high school and I went to junior college, I wanted to go to, you know, major school and go play football, and I couldn't, you know.

[165] So I went to junior college and ran, and it worked out fun because then I finally became full size.

[166] When I was a freshman in college and then my sophomore year in college, you know, I was finally measured at six feet, 175 pounds, whatever, and I was a regular -sized kid.

[167] did finally.

[168] I finally got a chance.

[169] It wasn't until my junior college years.

[170] It wasn't until the University of Pacific coaches recognized me. And back in the day, I got to piggyback on another player's opportunity to go for a visit for a scholarship.

[171] You know, they kind of let me go with him.

[172] And then in the day, which wasn't legal at the time, we played basketball on Saturday of the weekend visit, and I just killed it, you know.

[173] I was going crazy at one of the great days I ever had.

[174] The coaches recognized it, so they offered me a scholarship.

[175] I was going nowhere.

[176] And then things just worked out.

[177] All of the frustration I set aside and I got over it and I didn't poison my mentality.

[178] It just, it fueled me. And so I was fortunate that I had a really fun time playing football there and made a couple nice years and that was the start of it.

[179] It is rare that one of the guests on here didn't have some significant period of frustration, you know, in those teenage years or some period where it's like, it certainly creates your character.

[180] I suppose it can break you as well, but if it doesn't break you, yeah, it really forges your character.

[181] Yeah.

[182] It And my mentality during those years, you know, I always liked the pretty girls and all that, but I would never date anybody.

[183] I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't call them on the phone.

[184] I was chicken shit.

[185] I wouldn't do it, you know, because I just, I knew I wasn't what I needed to me at the time, you know, so I just waited.

[186] And fortunately, you know, eventually you grow up.

[187] And these high standards, would you think something just innately in you, biochemically, or was dad or mom setting really?

[188] No, my dad was really, he was tough and he was a competitive guy.

[189] I love that about him, you know, and they were wonderful to me. They just supported me. But I had done a lot of stuff when I was young enough to, that I had set my mentality in place.

[190] And I knew what I wanted to become.

[191] I didn't care where it was.

[192] I just wanted to be special at something.

[193] That's why I played all the sports and, you know, loved playing three sports and hate that kids in high school don't get to do that anymore.

[194] It's a marvelous experience to do that.

[195] But that all shaped, you know, just added to the mentality that for some reason, by the time I was 12 or 13, I had it all figured out what I was going to do and be.

[196] And then I went into this dark period.

[197] Yeah.

[198] And I'd wait.

[199] Yeah, where your biology said.

[200] I have a different game plan for you.

[201] Did you think in those moments, like, I will get there.

[202] Oh, I always knew.

[203] No, I always knew.

[204] I knew it.

[205] I just couldn't prove it.

[206] Uh -huh.

[207] Was it the experience of being on the court or being on the field or all those things that drew you to it?

[208] Or were you heavily drawn to the camaraderie and fellowship of teams?

[209] I was on really good teams with good coaches when I was young, which add to the experience I had had at a young age wasn't negative at all.

[210] like some little league kids have, you know, terrible situation.

[211] I didn't have that.

[212] I had really good support in it.

[213] My high school coach was a really well -rounded guy that taught virtue and character and stuff, you know.

[214] I worked at his high school football camp, the Diamond B football camp.

[215] My first year in high school, freshman year, all four years in college, I worked at his camp every summer and was kind of indoctrinated into this mentality of the Diamond B. My coach and his best friend were marine vets, you know.

[216] Right.

[217] So it was run very strictly, and they had a sensitivity about him that was really special that made it a really fun atmosphere.

[218] So I was kind of raised on the fields of the diamond beer sown the season on future days and future field to bear the fruits of victory.

[219] It was all that kind of stuff.

[220] And music.

[221] Clear eyes, whole hearts.

[222] Yeah, I mean, everything, they wakes up 6 o 'clock in the morning.

[223] We're all run and the whole thing.

[224] So it really had a lot to do with in a subtle way.

[225] It was only two weeks of summer, but it was impacting to me. And it's always been part of my coaching.

[226] There's such a difference, right, when you elect to do something versus when you're told to do something?

[227] Just by the fact that you chose to spend two weeks of your summer doing that, puts you in a different mindset.

[228] By doing the Pop Warner, I would coach the Pop Warner kids.

[229] Okay.

[230] And I would earn the free pass to go to the camp.

[231] And so that's kind of how it was said.

[232] And that was maybe the best job I had in growing up ever, you know, because I actually earned something that I really wanted and it made sense and it connected and all that.

[233] Other jobs that I had over the years weren't really, I didn't agree.

[234] That is rewarding.

[235] Yeah.

[236] You end up graduating from Pacific and you have a degree in business administration, right?

[237] Is that what you end up with?

[238] Yeah.

[239] Just really quick because you have proven to be entrepreneurial and was it, oh, this is what is what I'm interested in or was it be, this is a smart backup plan.

[240] What was the thought behind business administration?

[241] My dad and my brother sat me down when I was on my way to college in the bedroom one night.

[242] I can remember him saying, if you're ever going to do anything in life, you got to sell something.

[243] Oh, my dad gave me the same speech.

[244] He had sell something.

[245] My dad was a lifelong salesman.

[246] So that was like the worst thing that they could have told me. That's not me. I had nothing to do with that.

[247] So I went to business school and I mean and did all.

[248] all that and just did what they told me and was very compliant, but it made no sense at all.

[249] Right.

[250] But the rest of my life in coaching is sell.

[251] I mean, it's selling the principles and approach and concept and innovation.

[252] You're selling a culture and ideology.

[253] Absolutely.

[254] So you did that for a brief period out of college, but then you found your way to assistant coaching.

[255] When I was working for certain tea products, I got a call from the Canadian Football League.

[256] They were looking for, you know, DB, and I got kind of excited about the chance.

[257] And then they just left me, you know, cold.

[258] And then the World Football League started up within the same kind of time frame.

[259] And I got connected some way and got a chance and signed a contract to go to the Hawaiians of the World Football League.

[260] And that was about six months through my certainty years.

[261] And I started working out like Fien, you know, and like I knew.

[262] And I got ready to do that, went to camp, got cut, and didn't know what the heck to do.

[263] And my coaches from Pacific called me and said, if you'd like to be a GA, we got a position for you.

[264] If that didn't happen, I don't know what would have.

[265] I had no direction.

[266] I was just dead stop.

[267] That started.

[268] everything.

[269] They saw me as a coach before I saw me as a coach.

[270] I never thought of being a coach.

[271] It was never in my mind to coach football.

[272] You just want to play.

[273] I just want to play.

[274] Right.

[275] This is one of those we talk about in here a lot with actors or whatever, any creative endeavor.

[276] It's like there's talent and then there's hard work and then there's luck.

[277] And probably at best these are all like 33 % each of the puzzle, right?

[278] So at some point in your life, luck intervenes.

[279] They offer you to come to Pacific and start on this trajectory.

[280] Do you immediately like it?

[281] When I went to school all the way through until then, I didn't really care about school.

[282] I was just going because I was playing sports, even in college.

[283] You know, I mean, even my business degree, you know, I barely made it through that, you know.

[284] But when I went back to school and I went back to get my teaching credential and also and worked towards my master's degree, there was just a couple courses and a couple instructors that I connected with that just lit me on fire.

[285] And I just got excited about learning all of a sudden every grade I was getting A's on everything.

[286] It wasn't even a challenge to go to school.

[287] Right.

[288] It was easy because I liked it.

[289] I just flourished in that time.

[290] And during that time at Pacific, back in the 70s, that happened to be the guys that we ran into in the master's program, the instructors and their friends just got me in a whole different world of stuff.

[291] And it opened me up to performance and opened me up to meditation and opened me up to Eastern philosophy, all kinds of things that now have just, I'm not a meditator and I'm not a yoga guy, but I understand and appreciate that where the thinking came from in terms of performance and controlling and managing your life, that figured a way into my mentality as a coach.

[292] I didn't mean for that to happen.

[293] It just happened.

[294] It just became me, you know.

[295] And so some really cool things happened.

[296] And I've not left some of the early teachings from then all the way till now.

[297] Yeah, to drill into that for just a little bit, I have to imagine prior to that.

[298] You must have been kind of at the forefront of when we start thinking about the power of the mind in this.

[299] Yeah, there were some really instrumental people at the time.

[300] There's, again, Michael Murphy, who was a founder of Esselon.

[301] And Michael was friends with Glenn Albaugh, who was my master's teacher.

[302] They were friends with Bill Walsh, and they connected me with Tim Galway and all these.

[303] We met all of these people within about a two -year span of time, all talking about performance and the higher realms and sports and all of the talk about the zone and all those kinds of things that were just...

[304] And flow and all that stuff that was kind of unfamiliar at the time.

[305] It was like mainstream for us in what we were studying and all that.

[306] And it just was a rare time, and I just happened to be exactly at the right place at the right time.

[307] Abraham Maslow's teaching.

[308] you know, about self -actualization was a big part of the mentality that I've never been able to understand anything other than that.

[309] It's kind of, you know, about helping people find their way to become their best is what we're into with our work that we do now outside of football.

[310] So it was a very fortunate time.

[311] You're talking about luck.

[312] It was really lucky and fortunate for my growth and all.

[313] Now, the next phase of your life is one that I feel like would be particularly grueling to me. First, you were a student coach, right?

[314] And then eventually you become an assistant in coaching.

[315] You get linked to a head coach or some defensive coordinator or something, right, you get linked to a coach that's above you.

[316] And then you're on that person's train a little bit, right?

[317] You're moving around.

[318] You're right.

[319] That's exactly how it goes.

[320] A, that would have been a little hard for me. And then B, I wonder how long into it before you start naturally just having your own philosophy.

[321] And then ultimately having to carry out someone else's philosophy when you might have a contradictory one.

[322] For me, as someone with immense authority issues, I don't know if I could have done all that.

[323] Like, it's impressive to do that legwork, that grunt work.

[324] It is very interesting that I was just having fun and liking what I was doing, liked that I was around the game.

[325] And the first three years of Pacific as a graduate assistant, you were just nowhere, that person you were talking about that was going to help you, you know, move along.

[326] It happened to be a guy that was on my staff, Bob Cope, who's passed away that was a defensive coordinator that got me the opportunity to wind up going to Arkansas.

[327] Three years as a graduate assistant, I was dead in the water.

[328] I was going to Monroe High School in the East Bay to be a high school teacher.

[329] Fizz Ed teacher, which I didn't want to do it all.

[330] They offered me a job, and they offered me $10 ,000 a year to coach at this school, and I took a job that made $172 a month at Arkansas, you know, to chase the dream of me. That was the wage we just discovered of the Nike employees 12 years ago.

[331] I mean, that's the same, that was the same salary.

[332] Is it me $8 cheaper?

[333] It's about on the same level.

[334] And my wife and I, Glennon, we went to, we went to Arkansas and all of a sudden saw big -time college football.

[335] And it was such a wonderful experience.

[336] Lou Holtz was the head coach.

[337] And he was his first year there.

[338] He had a magical run in those first couple years.

[339] We were just there one year.

[340] But it just opened up everything to us.

[341] And we were now with people who were movers and shakers that would find their way to jobs that could help us.

[342] And Monty Kiffin was a guy that eventually wound up hiring me later on.

[343] on that staff.

[344] I mean, so the relationship part of the business really started to make sense where it meant nothing until then.

[345] We jumped, bump, bump, bump, we were going from one place to the other just to follow the opportunity.

[346] It was just a wild ride.

[347] I had no intention about being a head coach.

[348] I wasn't thinking that way.

[349] I was just in the midst of the run and having fun doing it.

[350] And Glenna is she's a patient human being, your wife?

[351] Oh, gosh.

[352] Because not only, it's bad enough to be linked to Bob's train or whoever's trained.

[353] And then now she's fucking And the caboose of yours, every time she gets settled probably.

[354] Yes, that's exactly what it was like.

[355] We went to Arkansas for nine months.

[356] We went to Iowa State for nine months.

[357] We went to Ohio State for another 10 months.

[358] And then we're on to NC State for three years.

[359] For the first time, we settled down for three years, you know, and got fired.

[360] And so, you know, we finally got something stable and we got fired.

[361] So we had, I don't know, some unbelievable number of moves in a short amount of time.

[362] Like, we were like at five different jobs in three years or something.

[363] You know, you can't even do that.

[364] You know, you can't know how to do that kind of stuff.

[365] But anyway, so she's been amazing.

[366] and she's been such a rock for me. She's an amazing person.

[367] Top athlete went in her day.

[368] Yeah, she was the first scholarship player at the University of Pacific for women, you know, and when Title IX came in and all of that, she's famous in my life easily.

[369] I have to imagine, too, in the uncertainty of all the moving around, what's next, where are we going, having that foundation at home probably was super crucial for you to stay the course.

[370] She let me go crazy.

[371] And I was been a pretty crazy role.

[372] It's a very...

[373] And she's let it happen and supported it in every way and understood it too.

[374] And if these shows are telling me the truth, like this last chance you, have you seen that show by chance?

[375] No. It's on Netflix.

[376] That's really good.

[377] It's incredible.

[378] I'm still trying to get too stranger things.

[379] Okay.

[380] Well, last chance you, yeah, I wonder how if you would enjoy it being a coach.

[381] You could either get double enjoyment on of it or you might hate it.

[382] I think those are my guesses.

[383] I doubt you'd be ambivalent about it.

[384] But in a nutshell, it's people who've gotten kicked out of D1.

[385] They go to community colleges and that's their chance, their last chance to get back.

[386] up to D1.

[387] And so it's just the most rag tag group you can imagine because they've all had fines or they've gotten trouble with the law.

[388] They got kicked out of their good school.

[389] And so the job that these coaches have, you know, they're basically getting the rejected worst of the worst problem athletes that are great.

[390] And they have to figure out how to make them work.

[391] It's a really, you know, interesting psychological journey.

[392] But anyways, the hours that they seem to work are very long.

[393] Was that your experience?

[394] Yeah, absolutely.

[395] The world of competing, what competing is all about, really hits you right between the eyes when you're in the college world of coaching.

[396] We compete so hard to find the edge in everything that we're doing.

[397] It's a mentality that you can't sleep, you can't rest, you can't stop, you can't.

[398] If you're in, and you're all the way in, then that's what it is.

[399] And I live in that today.

[400] I mean, every minute that I'm running around doing what I do, I'm trying to figure out another way to do something a little bit better.

[401] that's a competitor's mentality and that's what comes out of the process of, you know, through these coaching opportunities.

[402] Now, maybe it's not like that for everybody.

[403] I think it's for the ones that do really well, they find their way to that.

[404] It's really hard to just kind of roll through it and be successful.

[405] You've got to really go for it.

[406] It's an extraordinary world to live in, you know, in that regard.

[407] And it's why you do all the crazy stuff you do and take the jobs and you move and you're traveling.

[408] The family's second to all of those decisions.

[409] I hate that that was the way it was as I look back because my kids changing schools and changing doctors and changing friends.

[410] and all this.

[411] I did that one after another after another pursuing what?

[412] I don't know.

[413] I don't know.

[414] I don't know.

[415] The trophy you probably could have manufactured for a hundred bucks.

[416] But we did it.

[417] And fortunately, Glennon was one that went along with it and made it work, because I didn't make it work.

[418] She made it work.

[419] It's a crazy mentality if you really are in it.

[420] Have you read Essentialism?

[421] I do know.

[422] I have been taught about the stuff.

[423] Yeah, it's not read the book.

[424] It's a fascinating book.

[425] One of the parts in particular is how many of these kind of very inspirational CEOs, be it Bill Gates or different people, they build into their schedule, free time.

[426] But it's scheduled.

[427] It's like Bill has two weeks every six months or whatever, where he's doing nothing.

[428] And then there's quite a bit of evidence to support that without those big breaks, that's where new ideas come from.

[429] That's where breakthroughs come from.

[430] That's where you get out of the trees and see the entire woods, right?

[431] So is it possible in that schedule to even step back and have some kind of global view of the whole thing where you can rechart?

[432] Or is that what happens in the off -season?

[433] I think there's stages of your growth through the coaching thing when you just can't see the forest for the trees.

[434] You're just going, head down, going.

[435] You know, I was privy to a mentality of finding the spaces between the spaces and learning how to maximize that, which to me is like minutes.

[436] It can be a glimpse out the window and you see something and you take that moment to just relish what you just saw, those little teeny spaces.

[437] And then you can learn, I've learned to maximize those spaces and use that time for the kinds of moments that I need to find clarity, to find vision of things that, you know, that you Or observe patterns even, probably.

[438] Absolutely.

[439] It's patterns, it's people, it's emotions, it's energy, it's all kinds of stuff.

[440] And so that's a skill that somebody taught us one of the books we were reading about, there's no balance.

[441] There's no balance in life, that's bullshit.

[442] There's not balance.

[443] Like, I'm going to balance the work and the family.

[444] Hey, you don't do that.

[445] It isn't balanced.

[446] You may try to make yourself think you're doing that.

[447] You do the best you can with the times that you, you know, have available.

[448] And it's not about the time.

[449] It's about, are you there?

[450] Yeah.

[451] Are you connected?

[452] Are you present?

[453] And in the moment and lovingly with where you need to be.

[454] There's a real discipline to that.

[455] And I think it's really valuable.

[456] It's valuable so that like when you get with your children, you need to get there.

[457] Yes.

[458] And to not be there, but to be with them is really a travesty.

[459] And so it's almost worse.

[460] Yeah.

[461] You learn how to do it.

[462] I think it's because you care so much that you learn how to get good at it.

[463] Yeah.

[464] You were talking about the competitive mentality, and we talk about being competitive and competition a lot on here, because I'm very competitive.

[465] And I claim to not be.

[466] He claims to not be, but he is.

[467] He is.

[468] Yeah.

[469] Oh, yeah.

[470] He's known me for nine minutes.

[471] Just not in sports, but in everything else.

[472] Do you think that's innate or do you think it's learned?

[473] Do you think you can learn it?

[474] That's a really good question, yeah.

[475] Well, first off, before we go anything, for the competition competing is striving to me that's the that's the way you understand it's not winning and losing it's not zero sum necessarily it's striving it's striving it's striving for whatever it's striving for excellence striving for you know new insight it's whatever and that's something when you think of it differently than in a winning and losing and standing on somebody's throat and calling you know calling them names i just beat you you know that's not it at all if it was that i would never have been able to pursue in this manner but so it's part of the makeup and you you can learn yeah We teach people how to compete.

[476] One of the things I hope to do, and we're involved with USC in a course of study, and I'm really excited about it, that we have a chance to teach people in college how to compete.

[477] I totally think you can.

[478] It's a mentality, you know, and it's something that I'm really excited about because I think you can help people not only not compete to get a better job, but compete to be a better person.

[479] Well, I was just going to say.

[480] We're fully connected to everything.

[481] You know, there's a whole thought here that's really excited.

[482] Well, to defend myself a little bit, I will acknowledge I'm in deep competition with myself, always.

[483] I'm trying to beat yesterday's Dax regularly.

[484] I'm trying to be better than 10 years ago, Dax.

[485] That's why you're competitive.

[486] Right.

[487] Like, I am in a race to be better than I was last time, and I am interested in that.

[488] Yeah.

[489] Dax, I think that's one of the most important things that we can share with somebody, that you have an opportunity to compete at being you.

[490] And that is the ultimate pursuit.

[491] That's all the way back to Maslow.

[492] I mean, it's the ultimate life's calling.

[493] Manverse himself.

[494] Be the best person that you can be for the people that you love so that you can make the most of your time and your life and that for the people around you.

[495] And so that's behind all of this.

[496] It's behind all the coaching, the meeting I had last night, the night before the game.

[497] I mean, I'm talking about those principles so that we can live more fully and more completely and really actualize the potential that we have.

[498] And that's really doing it, you know, so.

[499] Yeah, I get daunted at whenever thinking of being the best at anything when you just go, like, well, there's seven billion people.

[500] So, you know, I could be a better version of myself.

[501] But most certainly someone's going to be better at every single thing than me. So it seems like a fool's errand, you know.

[502] Just for example, when I got fired at New England, you know, and I've been there for three years and had done okay, been in playoffs a couple times and all that.

[503] And I felt okay about it.

[504] And then all of a sudden, in, you know, eyes of the world, you're fired, you're kicked out.

[505] you're not good enough, you're not worthy, you know.

[506] I didn't think that way, you know.

[507] I didn't, it didn't hit me that way.

[508] It hit me if they don't get it.

[509] You know, they just don't understand, you know, they're the ones that are missing out, whoever's making, calling that shot.

[510] And that's a competitive mentality that we all have the opportunity to draw on when the time comes.

[511] You know, okay, yeah, yeah, it didn't quite work out, but I know I'm way better than this, and I just got to work at it and find my way.

[512] And when you are working at it, as you talked about, that's you're winning.

[513] That's what winning in life is, is that you're connecting your efforts to being the best version of yourself so that you can love more purely and share your love with the people that you care about.

[514] I mean, I'm trying to stand for that and wherever we go and hopefully it makes some sense to some people.

[515] Maybe if it doesn't, I'm okay.

[516] I'm okay about it, but that's what seems to be the exciting work.

[517] You coach in college for a while, you go to the NFL as a defensive back coach for the bills, right?

[518] then the Vikings, and then a defensive coordinator with the Jets for four seasons.

[519] That's 84 through 99.

[520] Yeah.

[521] Then we become the head coach of the Jets in 94.

[522] And then you got fired after a year.

[523] I want to say that your failures are incredibly public, right?

[524] And there's a unique sting to having everyone around you know what you just, you know, that you just failed kind of publicly.

[525] The New York thing was really something because, you know, I used to drive from the island to the stadium and back and forth in those millions and millions and millions of people that you pass along the way on the freeway, you know, living there and following their teams.

[526] And I had this thought that how many people it can affect, you know, they care.

[527] And I look at those high rises and you see the, I can remember doing this, see the high rises and the lights on in those apartments and there's thousands and thousands and thousands of thousands.

[528] They probably were just watching that game that we just went out there and got our ass kicked in, you know.

[529] Yeah.

[530] What the heck, man?

[531] I had a chance to fire them all up.

[532] And I didn't.

[533] That opportunity was a great one to really have impact and to do some cool stuff.

[534] And the guy bounced me, you know, months after I got the job.

[535] Yeah.

[536] That was too bad.

[537] It's an interesting point you make because I bet if you were coaching up in Green Bay, it's like you could largely miss until game day that there are even people around, you know.

[538] It's so scarce.

[539] New York was amazing opportunity.

[540] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[541] all been there.

[542] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[543] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[544] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[545] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[546] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[547] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[548] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[549] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon Music.

[550] What's up, guys, this is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good.

[551] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[552] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[553] And I don't mean just friends.

[554] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[555] The list goes on.

[556] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[557] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[558] Here's one of the moments now that I talk about where your ego could have fucked you.

[559] Since 1994, you could have been sitting around waiting for a head coach job again.

[560] And correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I don't even understand how this works, but you did then step down to be a defensive coordinator for the 49ers, right?

[561] I mean, that is a backward step in conventional logic, right?

[562] Yeah, unless you were born in San Francisco and you love George Seaford and the Niners and Bill Walsh and all that stuff, you know.

[563] Right.

[564] A quick story about that, I have a chance to get a coordinator job at the Denver Broncos, okay?

[565] And I'm getting ready to go to the airport, to get on a flight, to go to Denver to go hopefully get the job.

[566] And the phone rings, I mean, I'm waiting for the get in the car, you know, to go to the airport.

[567] airport and it's George Sefer, the coach of the 49ers.

[568] And he said, hey, would you be interested and being our coordinator?

[569] And I said, well, I'm going, you know, here to Denver.

[570] And he said, well, can you come here afterwards and we'll talk about it and all that?

[571] And I said, sure, okay, great.

[572] And there I go, you know, and I'm on the way.

[573] I went to the Denver interview and then went to San Francisco and he offered me the job.

[574] And I'm sitting at dinner with the head coach that I just admired to the, you know, the highest.

[575] And I couldn't take it.

[576] I couldn't take the job.

[577] I couldn't say yes.

[578] I said, you know, I went back to the room.

[579] I said, sorry, I'll let you know.

[580] You know, and I'm thinking, what an idiot.

[581] What do you think?

[582] You could have had this job.

[583] This is going back home, you know, San Francisco.

[584] You love the Niners.

[585] You know, it's just be a great place to land after the crap we'd been through.

[586] Called Glenn and I said, what's up?

[587] Why can I tell George that I want this job?

[588] And she said, are you afraid?

[589] And I said, afraid.

[590] Oh, I'll call you back.

[591] I hung up.

[592] And I called George within the next 20 seconds, you know, and I try to find them and finally get them at home.

[593] And I said, you had love to take the job, you know.

[594] And I realized that I held that opportunity in such high regard.

[595] Emotionally, I didn't know what was overcoming me. It was a big deal to me. Because you wanted to be perfect there.

[596] Is that what it was?

[597] Yeah, I wanted to be everything for that place because I love the Niners.

[598] The whole Bill Walsh era had come by and I loved all of that.

[599] And George Seaford and I was doing it.

[600] I loved George in San Francisco and I love the Bay Area.

[601] It was such a big deal to me. I couldn't grasp that at the time.

[602] There was probably an emotional component, right, that doesn't exist with other teams.

[603] And so that's why you say taking a step back, it meant so much to me. It was more important than any other thing I could do.

[604] And so fortunately that it happened and we had blast, you know.

[605] Right.

[606] And then after being there for a while, you then in 97, two years, I guess you're with the 49ers?

[607] Yeah.

[608] Really quick because you're, again, this is stuff I learned today, but you created this thing, Legion of Boom, right, a defense.

[609] No, I didn't create it.

[610] You didn't create it.

[611] The players did that.

[612] The players created it.

[613] You still, right, led the NFL and scored defense four years straight.

[614] That's accurate.

[615] Yeah.

[616] Okay, so maybe you didn't create it.

[617] With the 49ers, do you have that same strategy there?

[618] Or there's something that evolved later?

[619] We were really good at the 49ers.

[620] We led the league and defense my first year there, and I think we were right there, the second year, right up there, and we have really good teams.

[621] And what was the defining characteristic of that style was that you weren't going to let the big plays happen?

[622] Do I understand that correctly?

[623] Well, there's a lot, too.

[624] But that starts there.

[625] It's too simple, yeah.

[626] Okay.

[627] Yeah, the San Francisco thing was really a big deal to me as a coach because I went into a situation that I held in the highest of regard they had been together for like 17 years of the same kind of thinking and formula and the notebook was a foot deep, you know, and I had to figure out how to coach a bunch of guys that just won a world championship.

[628] That was the first time I realized that I was a good coach.

[629] I never ever thought of myself as a really good, successful, or big, I didn't think any of that.

[630] But making it through that process to solve the mystery so that I could represent there at San Francisco, for the first time I realized that, you know, I could do this.

[631] And I know that sounds crazy because I'd been coaching a long time, but I really didn't hold myself in that regard until that time.

[632] I proved it to myself because I realized what I was up against.

[633] You acknowledged your skills and you.

[634] Yeah.

[635] So from then on, it's been kind of a surge of, you know, doing some pretty good things.

[636] And here in Seattle, and doing the stuff that we did there, that was just an outgrowth and the blossoming of personalities is really what we saw.

[637] The boom thing and all that.

[638] That just kind of came together because we gave the guys the freedom to be themselves and to be uniquely the way they were, but to always keep them bonded in this connection of doing something really, really special and really great, they had space to create the Legion of Boom.

[639] Right.

[640] Richard and...

[641] So you allowed them to be individual and all those guys all did that.

[642] While still being one unit.

[643] I now know how powerful that is.

[644] I was doing that, but I didn't know what I was doing.

[645] And I've learned in just the last 10 years at Seattle some stuff has come to the surface.

[646] I didn't know what I was doing, but it was happening.

[647] Right.

[648] Now I have a much better feel for it.

[649] And so now we work to recreate and it's really fun.

[650] You get the head coach job with the Patriots in 97 for three years.

[651] And now, when you're let go from there.

[652] The Legion of Boom wasn't in there.

[653] That all happened in Seattle, right?

[654] Right.

[655] Yeah, okay.

[656] I was just wondering if the defensive style that later was named.

[657] No, I didn't do it right there.

[658] I screwed it up.

[659] As a head coach, I should have been the defensive coordinator, and I didn't do it there.

[660] I missed that decision.

[661] When I went to USC, I went in there as a defensive coordinator to bring them all of the strengths that I had.

[662] So at least half of my team I would be in control of as opposed to giving that to somebody else to coordinate.

[663] Because generally the head coach doesn't also.

[664] Sometimes they do.

[665] Sometimes they don't.

[666] Most of the time they don't do defense, the offensive guys more so in charge.

[667] And I just didn't do it right.

[668] I just made a mistake.

[669] And that was one of the clear decisions that I had made in the time between New England and SC.

[670] And it's made all the difference.

[671] Right.

[672] And so after the Patriots job, again, here's a moment where I imagine at that time where you're like, I don't want to leave me in an NFL head.

[673] coach and go be a college coach.

[674] You're right on it.

[675] That's exactly what happened.

[676] In going back to college, I was in college football for, I don't know, 11 years or something like that, then went to the NFL for like 16 or 17 and then go back.

[677] When I went back, it seemed like it was kind of a minor league feeling to it to me, you know, and so I felt like I was in such command that it just really freed me up even more to be more creative and more.

[678] It bolstered your confidence.

[679] Yeah, it was just more powerful in the decision making.

[680] And after the first year at USC, I made the best choices in my career and how to control the team.

[681] And I've been at my best from that point forward, I think, you know, because of that.

[682] And what's great, too, which I like, and maybe you do or you don't, you weren't their first pick, right?

[683] No, no. You were like their fourth or fifth pick.

[684] No, no. See, these make the story so much better.

[685] Yeah, well, matter of fact, you know, I had gone into the interview and I really did great.

[686] I was so ready.

[687] I was so prepared for it.

[688] It just worked out great.

[689] I knew that I had killed it.

[690] Yeah.

[691] But I knew that I also wasn't the right choice.

[692] So I stayed in L .A. for days after the interview, waiting for the decision to come out because the athletic director had to kind of figure out how he was going to tell the world who was going to be their next coach.

[693] And he knew he was going to get just a hammered and crushed, you know.

[694] And so I can remember laying on the beach right between Manhattan and Hermosa just waiting for the phone call.

[695] And I finally called.

[696] I said, come on, let's go.

[697] We've got recruits.

[698] We've got to get this thing going.

[699] I know you want to do it.

[700] And so it was the next day when he finally announced it.

[701] It was really, I was coercing our way into encouraging him, you know, to let's make the call.

[702] And don't worry about it.

[703] It'll work out great.

[704] We're going to kill it.

[705] Yeah.

[706] And it was...

[707] You were your dad getting another handle in some saloon somewhere.

[708] Really.

[709] Really.

[710] So, you know, it took a while to be received, but I didn't care.

[711] I'm going to bring Monica up to speed, if you know mine.

[712] So they started at two and five.

[713] Okay.

[714] They won two and they lost five.

[715] Okay.

[716] And then people were already critical when they hired them.

[717] And now at this point, it really crescendos, right?

[718] Yeah.

[719] It really crescendos.

[720] And guess what happens next, Monica?

[721] Tell me. He goes on to get a 67 and 7 record over the next 74 games.

[722] Wow.

[723] And he wins two national championships.

[724] Wow.

[725] And he doubled, because I'm a greedy little pig, the USC Athletic Department revenue.

[726] Oh, you love the money.

[727] I love money.

[728] Is that ride?

[729] I mean, that's like out of a movie.

[730] Is that just like the most rewarding, fulfilling?

[731] Well, in particular, we're flying back into LA yesterday.

[732] It really came kind of flooding back.

[733] This has happened a couple different times, but we had so much fun.

[734] It was such a cool run.

[735] There were so many unbelievably fun, exciting things that occurred, the decisions that we were making were so freewheeling at the time.

[736] We were just going for it.

[737] Making jazz?

[738] Yeah, we were just going for it.

[739] We were questionably received in some areas.

[740] And when it came to the end and they go back and they start hammering some of the things we did, they didn't get it.

[741] We had so much fun.

[742] It was so much fun for so many people.

[743] It wasn't just the football players or the coaching staff.

[744] We were sharing it with everybody.

[745] We had people coming to practice.

[746] and people were around the program.

[747] Yeah, you opened up practices, right?

[748] We had terribly scrutinized for that.

[749] Those people never were there.

[750] It was an event.

[751] You didn't know who was going to show up.

[752] And it was the games were a blast.

[753] Especially in L .A. It was a blast.

[754] It was just such a great time.

[755] And we were able to win so much and do so many.

[756] Well, part of the, I would imagine mentally part of the component is like most people are practicing anonymously.

[757] And then you get in front of 90 ,000 people.

[758] There has to be some shift.

[759] So the fact that they may have been playing in front of ice, that's stressful.

[760] It's just good practice to be playing in front of people you want to impress, right?

[761] Precisely was the thought behind it.

[762] The noise, the music, the people, the event, that there was something, because you never performed otherwise.

[763] So we needed to be in that, so it was just commonplace.

[764] And it was that I still believe that to this day that we try to make practice.

[765] I would have people come every day if we could to make, it doesn't, you don't have to have 60 ,000 or 90 ,000 to perform.

[766] If you know that there's some people, there's there, somebody's there you know we had a game in bothal in the middle of camp you know and there was 3 ,000 people there but felt like you're playing in the Coliseum you know on that moment the music and the cheer of the crowd and all that stuff that makes it real yeah that makes the that makes the experience makes them practice harder more fruitful with it well that yes but even there's environmental issues around you you know and you got to deal with them and you've got to figure out how to cope with that it's like no big deal to us why was that scrutinized glennon would tell me sometimes we look too boasty over the top too much you know you know you And she's not wrong about that.

[767] Our guys were jumping up and down on the sidelines and cheering what was going on.

[768] You know, there was a point when we were going to, I don't know what Rose Bowl it was, the third one or whatever one it was.

[769] And the writers were saying, oh, we don't, the Trojans don't care about going to the Rose Bowl.

[770] It's not a big deal to them.

[771] This is just an afterthought.

[772] And I wanted to prove to anybody that was going to watch that game of how much we cared and how much we respected that opportunity.

[773] So our guys were going crazy on the sidelines and they're chanting and jumping and stuff like that.

[774] You know, and when I look back at it, I can see where it could look like they're being kind of boasts.

[775] Because we were always winning, and people maybe didn't like that about it.

[776] For us, it was just to live to the very fullest that.

[777] Can I say, though, I do believe that there is an undercurrent of racism here.

[778] And this goes across all sports, really, because this was in the Hoosiers movie.

[779] This goes back, like, be modest, be fundamental, don't celebrate.

[780] And those are really associated with black players.

[781] That's really why everyone was an uproar.

[782] I think it was a cultural difference that the white, patriarchy had an issue with.

[783] I think there are racial undertones of that of how you're supposed to celebrate, how you're supposed to support.

[784] And those seem very kind of east coast.

[785] How you're supposed to govern?

[786] Yes.

[787] Yeah.

[788] Yeah.

[789] It seems very kind of old school, old money, all these things.

[790] I don't know.

[791] So I've never really.

[792] I think there's a line to be drawn, though.

[793] I think you can go too far.

[794] And I think there probably sometimes we did go too far in our lack of humility.

[795] But it was not for the wrong reasons.

[796] It was to just have fun.

[797] It was to have enjoy the heck out of everything we were.

[798] doing.

[799] So we erred at times, but I don't think we erred for the wrong reasons.

[800] You know, I think it's right.

[801] So here's where a couple now, the coaching strategies I want to talk about.

[802] One is, I don't know, tell me, I feel like perhaps there's a parallel here.

[803] I'm sober.

[804] I've been sober 15 years.

[805] There's a bunch of principles for me that I really dig.

[806] One of them that's the most known probably is one day at a time.

[807] Now, I have sponsored guys that go, you know, I want to, I want to get sober, but like, what about when my son turns 21?

[808] Am I not going to have a beer?

[809] with my son?

[810] And I'm like, yeah, that's a legit fear.

[811] But when's your son turn in 21?

[812] And 14 years?

[813] Let's just today.

[814] Today will be sober.

[815] And tomorrow, hopefully, we'll be sober.

[816] We'll cross that path when we come to it.

[817] When your son's 21, we can evaluate it on that day.

[818] We don't need to think about that day.

[819] We need to think about today.

[820] And I do wonder, is there a parallel between one play at a time?

[821] I'm sure everyone wants to win that national championship or that Super Bowl, are you at your best when you're pursuing a goal that is Mount Everest as opposed to the step in front of you?

[822] You're on it.

[823] I mean, you couldn't be more on point with the essence of what I think is the growth that you have available to is one step.

[824] It's the next step you take.

[825] It's not what you just did.

[826] It's what you're going to do now.

[827] What you just did is long gone.

[828] And it doesn't matter if it was a year or if it was a career or whatever.

[829] If it was just the catch that you just made, it's done.

[830] And what are you going to do about the next step you take?

[831] And the ability to discipline yourself to that kind of focus is what can allow you to touch extraordinary.

[832] It can allow you to reach into the realms of your highest potentials.

[833] It's focus and discipline.

[834] It's mindfulness, its presence.

[835] It's all of those things that come all the way back from Eastern philosophy before when I learned years and years ago.

[836] It was that presence and that love of instant in the moment.

[837] Michael Murphy was at the essence.

[838] of that stuff.

[839] We mentioned his name earlier.

[840] He understood that because of his Eastern philosophy training.

[841] That is my challenge to help people understand that so that they can be great at what you do.

[842] It's hard, too, right?

[843] Because let's say, I'm a wide receiver and I miss some catch, right?

[844] Well, the truth is that plays now in a history book.

[845] It doesn't really matter what your spin on it is.

[846] It doesn't matter if you think you didn't get this or that coverage or that, you know, that narrative you want to spin around that unfortunate thing that just hurt.

[847] As opposed to just accepting it and happen, it's gone, and it's gone.

[848] for good and now I have a new opportunity in front of me to do something different.

[849] It's really hard.

[850] It's tempting to try to start creating your defense, right?

[851] What's interesting about that too is a lot of people don't understand that and don't have that information yet.

[852] And so that they go on what they think should happen and what they think you should feel and think should have been the response.

[853] So many people judge in that manner, they don't get it.

[854] You go right back to the moment when we lose the Super Bowl, you know, that was my greatest test.

[855] Are you real or not, right in an instance of, but before I stood up, you got a walk your talk.

[856] Before I stood up, was I, from the reaction of that moment, was I going to be real to what I'm talking about?

[857] I'm going to take the next step.

[858] I did.

[859] I know I did.

[860] It wasn't for anybody else, but I did know that I needed to show that for others to maybe benefit in their pain that they were going to go through from what just happened.

[861] Well, you have an opportunity to model behind you.

[862] And I don't know that it ever came through.

[863] And I knew that there was a moment in time because it's such a visible event and all that, that I would like to have been able to connect that for other people so that they can understand that you can do it.

[864] You can go to the next thing and get moving and everybody wanted to drag you back in and keep you.

[865] And I appreciate that you hadn't even brought it up yet.

[866] But I don't appreciate it because it's important.

[867] It's an important challenge to learn that you can manage your life in a way that you can go to the very next instant and be mindful and present.

[868] But you think about how you can learn how to do that with the people that you love.

[869] and the people that you take care of and all, it's so valuable, and it's so necessary, I think.

[870] And so that's why I'm wildly in pursuit of helping people come to understand that.

[871] Yeah, if you're carrying the shame of your last indiscretion into tomorrow, then you might as well just admit you're fucking up tomorrow because you really just can't be doing both, right?

[872] Yeah.

[873] The other thing I feel like could be an interesting parallel is, you know, we famously say the serenity prayer in there all the time, which is basically just give me the guidance of which things I should accept.

[874] and which things I should keep battling.

[875] And I think that as a human, I think it transcends all occupations.

[876] It's like, God, figuring out what things to accept, a shitty call is a shitty call.

[877] The quicker you can accept that and move forward, the better off you are, I would imagine.

[878] Like, there's so many elements that are out of your control.

[879] And every second spent worrying about the things that are your control is seconds you could have put into the things you do control, right?

[880] It is exactly controlling the things that you can control is how you live your life.

[881] If you try to mess with the things you can't control, you're going to be a mess.

[882] You're going to be a mess.

[883] That's exactly how we coach and as we teach is to develop the discipline that it takes to not get attracted to the things that are outside of you and just stay with the things that are within you.

[884] And then when you do that, you can celebrate so much more.

[885] Yeah.

[886] Because you don't always in response, oh, you know, what just happened?

[887] Oh, what are they thinking and all that?

[888] So it's an extraordinarily valuable discipline.

[889] Yeah, and hard, hard.

[890] We all lay in bed.

[891] It ain't easy, and it comes and goes.

[892] You don't, you get it.

[893] No, you got to stay with it.

[894] Yes, you keep relearning.

[895] That's right.

[896] Yeah.

[897] And then over time, and sadly, too, it's something that comes with the vantage point of age, which is you can look back on your life and go, ooh, all the things I worried about, maybe 10 % of those things were what ended up affecting me. And then all these things I didn't even consider became my biggest obstacles and stuff.

[898] If there was some great correlation, it'd be worth it.

[899] But generally, none of us are worrying about the right things anyways.

[900] You get an aneurysm, you're trying to quit smoking.

[901] you were, you know, whatever the thing is.

[902] We're bad predictors.

[903] Yeah.

[904] Okay, so the other thing that I think is really you're in a unique position to speak on is, and I asked Michael O 'Jurray about this, a lot of the guys you deal with, had the same childhood I had, which is no dad around sporadic stepdads that came in with a game plan.

[905] I'm not open to it.

[906] I don't want your fucking game plan.

[907] I'd rather bet on myself.

[908] So I imagine there's different coaching styles with guys who are fatherless or limited fathering and then ones who had a dad around all the time.

[909] Is there a distinct?

[910] I don't know if it's coaching styles.

[911] It would sound like you click into this mentality or this thinking and all.

[912] But there's great value in empathy and being able to receive the people where they are and what they've been through and all of that.

[913] And then our way is to try to put them in a relationship -based environment.

[914] so that we can learn who they are and what's going on with them and then learn how to connect with them in the most effective way because what we're trying to help them do is be the best they can be.

[915] So to do that, you've got to figure out who you're dealing with regardless of what their background and their circumstances.

[916] So we work to find common ground and common vision and stuff.

[917] And in that, we just get to the real of it, you know, and it's not about, if you could have sat in the meeting last night and heard my players, okay, we had a little group that was firing up the rest of the defensive guys in the night before the game.

[918] and out came these unbelievable revelations of stories of their background just in minutes of their conversation that would just move you and every one of them has a story.

[919] Every one of them's got the hardships exactly like you're talking about that made them the man that they are today and make them the man that they may become.

[920] It's so valuable to know that everybody's got their story and to let them know that you care and give them an opportunity to share their story and then on we go.

[921] Okay, yeah, that's your stuff, but we're not going to keep coming back to it.

[922] Same thing.

[923] That's what was, now what are we going to do?

[924] You know, and how can we develop this wonderful, fruitful environment that you can flourish and be great in, you know?

[925] Yeah.

[926] After 40 -something years of doing this, you know, there's an open -hearted approach that is, I don't know, just about as real as it gets, you know.

[927] I don't know.

[928] The other's differences in our backgrounds and stuff, but what we're commonly drawn together to do and to embrace, our guys live in the extraordinary world.

[929] Even though there's still issues, there's still issues about it.

[930] it and legitimate issues about it, if you could see what it's like behind the walls of a building and these guys get to just flourish in their unique, special ways that they are and accepted for it and received well day in and day out and not held to some other standards and not pressed or coerced or any, they get to freely flow in our environment and it's awesome.

[931] Just to be connected to it and to be able to be caught up in it, it's such a, I'm so grateful for it.

[932] And to go back to the extraordinary nature of what your occupation is.

[933] I don't know there's another job in the world where your employees have just gone from making zero dollars to millions of dollars.

[934] That in itself is one of the most unique.

[935] So they're going through this self -realization of that they are generating this thing and basically they're at their dream destination, which is wild.

[936] I mean, you're basically putting gold medals around people's necks on the podium.

[937] I mean, You're witnessing something that is just incredibly unique.

[938] Yeah.

[939] It's very hard to manage that new attention, that new status.

[940] It's hard to, and it's not to have to feel sorry for them for that.

[941] They're getting the opportunity to go through it.

[942] But you should feel sorry for us the guys that don't make it.

[943] Because we, myself included, we came up to make this thing and to do something with it.

[944] And our entire life was to be a football dude.

[945] You know, how that happened.

[946] I don't know, but that's what our life was drawn to.

[947] And we get this shot to do it.

[948] And then it's over.

[949] Yeah.

[950] Then what?

[951] If you could put it in anybody's walk in life, you were doing everything you ever wanted to do, and all of a sudden, you don't get to do it anymore.

[952] It's over.

[953] Totally.

[954] And you're 27.

[955] It's crazy.

[956] You know, you may be 30, you know, and there's a couple guys that are in their 34s and 33s and all.

[957] It's just an incredible shock.

[958] And how do you deal with it?

[959] And, you know, they don't deal with it very well.

[960] Just like the people coming back fighting the wars, they don't know how to respond.

[961] They're not prepared for it, you know.

[962] They train you how to do it.

[963] Yeah.

[964] But they don't train you how to get back in.

[965] There's no question.

[966] There's no question.

[967] I don't know that there's any place that's doing the right training.

[968] We need to respect the fact that people need the training.

[969] They need the help.

[970] They need the love and the support.

[971] It's a whole different shift for them.

[972] The other thing I saw once in a documentary, which I thought was unique, obviously, is that the general trajectory of someone's income is you make more and more and more up until you're like 40s and 50s.

[973] So you've now had 20 years of managing finance.

[974] You've had a lot of practice.

[975] You've had some experience.

[976] You've maybe gotten to debt.

[977] You got out of debt.

[978] debt.

[979] And now we're going to make you the most responsible for this largest sum of money after you've kind of, and this is the opposite.

[980] This is flipped.

[981] It's like you're at your youngest, you have the least amount of experience.

[982] We're going to give you the most amount of money that you'll have in your whole life.

[983] And then it's going to go down from there.

[984] Yeah.

[985] So it seems like economic training would be helpful for the guys that are in the situation.

[986] Yeah.

[987] I need everything you can think of.

[988] Anybody, it doesn't, it's not a football player.

[989] It's put anybody.

[990] No, I agree.

[991] Everybody is first year lawyer, his top salary and then let it go down from there.

[992] That's right.

[993] You know, and you're going to be done four or five years from now or six or eight years from now, and now I start over again.

[994] You got a whole life ahead of you.

[995] Yeah.

[996] Fortunately, a lot of our guys get the financial help that they need, but a lot of them don't.

[997] And they don't all make so much money that they can, you know, they can live the rest of their life on.

[998] Fortunately, some of them do, and, you know, we see a lot of great stories.

[999] Yeah, yeah.

[1000] I got a family member through marriage who played like four years as a defensive lineman.

[1001] And, yeah, back to the drawing board.

[1002] Yeah.

[1003] And he's landed on his feet, which is impressive.

[1004] But, yeah, it's crazy.

[1005] It is really impressive.

[1006] and those should be, they need to be single out and shown as examples that you can make it because there's not very many illustrations for our guys to know how to do it.

[1007] There's guys on this really visible plateau, but they're not the real ones.

[1008] They're the other ones, you know, and so great challenge.

[1009] Now, and again, this is something I brought up with Michael, is in your pursuit of creating relationships, I have to imagine there is a temptation to go, you've got to get with this program.

[1010] Like, you've got to click into this mindset.

[1011] I imagine it's the most challenging line to be navigating or to delineate.

[1012] When am I embracing who they are talking to them in a manner that's going to be most effective for them and help them realize their goal?

[1013] And when do I have to go, but you're on a fucking team and get with the program?

[1014] I asked Michael what your rules are, and he says you basically have three rules.

[1015] So let's just say you had this incredible run at USC and then you go to the Seahawks.

[1016] And you have another storybook run there.

[1017] But I want to know about your three rules.

[1018] Always protect the team is about conscience.

[1019] That's rule number one in the program.

[1020] Always protect the team.

[1021] That's to introduce them to a mentality that's necessary so that we can function and keep ourselves as strong as possible at all times.

[1022] There's only three rules because they're so vast in what they cover.

[1023] And so this is about their conscience.

[1024] Wherever they go, whatever they do, can they always remember that they represent the Seattle Seahawks?

[1025] And this is their team that they're representing.

[1026] From the slightest example of helping a guy stay out of a fight on the field to in a bar, you know, and somebody approaches them and, you know, and keep them from getting in trouble there, to pulling them out of the scuffle on the field, to speaking to the media, to, you know, how you run your life, how you take care of your relationships that you interact with and the people that we connect with when we travel, how do we treat the people who fly us, you know, do we treat them with respect?

[1027] You're representing us.

[1028] You're always part of this team.

[1029] That's to develop that consciousness.

[1030] And it's really just like conscience, you know?

[1031] Yeah.

[1032] You are us.

[1033] So that's rule number one.

[1034] that's a general life philosophy that's helpful which is you're a part of this organism we all are as humans we are obviously separated in our body but we're one big organism and it's helpful to the mentality wouldn't hurt in other areas yeah yeah it's like you strive to keep extending that ring out so that's real number one you're on it stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare okay so number two No whining, no complaining, no excuses.

[1035] That's one that I really swiped from Coach Wooden.

[1036] That was one of his guidelines.

[1037] It meant a lot to me. It had to do with mental toughness in a sense.

[1038] Can you operate without telling somebody your sad story?

[1039] Can you function by not saying disparaging things about what's going on?

[1040] Can you understand that your sad story may affect somebody else's?

[1041] Can you be tough enough about not doing that?

[1042] It also has to do with just making excuses.

[1043] So if you're a rule number two violator in our program, you could do it on a million different levels, you know, about making an excuse for something and that we're, you know, whatever.

[1044] And so that to me is really important about our self -talk.

[1045] I get to talk about self -talk here because in explaining rule number two, the words that you say are so powerful.

[1046] And your actions basically follow what you say.

[1047] And so let's be mindful of what we're doing here, you know, let's control this variable that could take us down a negative road that we don't want to go as a team, in a locker room, as we travel, but for yourself too, you know, let's get your words together and let's make sure that you understand how powerful, positive self -talk and affirmations are in the way you converse and communicate and all that.

[1048] Yeah, I would also like to say, because Monica and I both this year's New Year's resolutions was less complaining.

[1049] No, that was yours.

[1050] Well, yours was to stop saying you're busy.

[1051] Just similar, I guess.

[1052] Same world.

[1053] Yeah.

[1054] And what I have found is that, you know, in the sense that you find what you're looking for, if I'm in a pattern of complaining or finding something that was bad about an experience, I now look for it.

[1055] And in looking for it, I find it, you know, excuses and negativity, they begat that because you're looking to confirm the story you're telling yourself.

[1056] And behind all of this, too, is optimism.

[1057] I don't want to go the other way.

[1058] I want everything about a program to be built on what could be, what can be, not on what is happening and what may be, you know, negative that could draw us or why we should be down as opposed to all of the hope and the positive thoughts that you can have, that reigns in the program.

[1059] You can't say something kind of off the cuff cruddy and not be called on it, you know, and to some extent.

[1060] Yeah.

[1061] Michael was saying they have fun outing each other for that.

[1062] Yeah.

[1063] Yeah.

[1064] Yeah.

[1065] That's part of it.

[1066] That's part of it.

[1067] We try to catch yourself.

[1068] So it governs itself.

[1069] And I got to say, I was so delighted your meeting went long today because the one rule I knew already was be early.

[1070] And I got here exactly on time.

[1071] And I was like, fuck, I was going to get here early to show them.

[1072] And then I was quite relieved you didn't catch me not being early.

[1073] But tell me the difference between being early and on time.

[1074] Well, have you ever tried to be on time?

[1075] It's impossible.

[1076] Yeah.

[1077] It's like it's impossible.

[1078] You know, that grunt is all it is.

[1079] You know, that's on time.

[1080] So that's, you can't do it.

[1081] Be early is really important about priorities.

[1082] It's important about understanding where you fit in the world and how you play a part in everybody's world around you.

[1083] And so we talk about it in terms of prioritizing, getting organized, having a plan, knowing, you know, what you're up against, and being able to take the moments it takes to figure out how you can organize your world so that you can approach what's coming up early enough so that you can demonstrate the respect that whatever you're dealing with deserves.

[1084] It is a declaration, right?

[1085] It is truly a declaration.

[1086] It's a declaration of respect.

[1087] So this is where I talk about respect.

[1088] And I talk about respect everybody and everything around us.

[1089] We don't ever pick and choose when to respect, because if you pick and choose, sometimes you're going to be wrong.

[1090] You're going to disrespect.

[1091] And so when I've asked guys about respect over the years, you know, you try to talk about respect.

[1092] Go ahead.

[1093] Go, Dax.

[1094] What's respect?

[1095] For others or for myself?

[1096] I don't know.

[1097] Do you try to talk about the word?

[1098] Okay, well, I think respecting someone else is recognizing that they two are going through something and that they're on their ride and that they're, you know.

[1099] Okay, great.

[1100] Monica, you do respect.

[1101] Yeah, I think it's appreciating that there are other people on earth other than you.

[1102] Okay, so there's a million ways, and nobody can nail respect.

[1103] I've asked tons of guys.

[1104] They can't do it.

[1105] So what we've done is we've taken the word regard and use how you regard something is how you demonstrate respect.

[1106] And so if you see somebody that you don't think is important to you, and so you don't give them the time of day, you're demonstrating a level of regard that really represents how you respect that.

[1107] And if you see somebody that, oh, I get to meet Dax, you know, I'm on my best game and I'm fighting.

[1108] fired up and I'm there early, I'm looking, I'm dressed up right and all that.

[1109] You're demonstrating how you regard, how you feel about that.

[1110] Well, once we started talking about regard, it started to make sense to us.

[1111] So it's the actions that you take that demonstrate how you feel about whatever you're dealing with.

[1112] For instance, how do you regard your opportunity to play for the Seattle Seahawks?

[1113] Do you do everything in your power to put yourself in the best position, to be at your very best, to demonstrate that this is the most important thing in the world to you right now, and you'll take in everything that you can possibly take in to make sure that you get you ensure that yeah that your actions are reflective of that yes and so it takes us to the point of discussing respect in regard to self -respect and self -regard how do you feel about yourself do you regard yourself highly enough that you will put yourself in the best light or are you willing to be bullshit are you willing to to show up late are you willing to not put your best foot forward in jeopardizing your opportunity.

[1114] That demonstrates low level of self -respect.

[1115] Guys that don't really care, we know now.

[1116] They tell us, if you just watch and listen, you know, those that do really care and they want to give their best shot, they want to really give every opportunity, you know, make it available to them.

[1117] They hold themselves in high regard.

[1118] And so they have a lot of self -respect.

[1119] So anyway, that's the way we use it.

[1120] And so it's a really cool thing for us in and around the, you know, the environment that we're.

[1121] Well, I love it because it transcends that environment, that's dating, that's relationships, that's people, I often say this, like, people date other people with the same self -esteem as themselves, because whatever level they think they're worth, they find someone who has a similar value of what they think they deserve to be with, and it's kind of back and forth.

[1122] So it's like, if everyone you date is a loser, guess what?

[1123] You're the common denominator, and, you know, you think you only deserve that.

[1124] And it's all kind of one big circle.

[1125] Yeah.

[1126] As simple as it is, it's kind of like, okay, be early, what's that mean, you know?

[1127] But there's a ton to it and the way we see it.

[1128] So, I don't know.

[1129] Yeah, no, I dig it.

[1130] Okay, so at Seattle, again, you come in there and you win the first Super Bowl in that franchise is history.

[1131] You guys go, what, 13 and 2 or something?

[1132] The second year?

[1133] 13 and 3.

[1134] And you become one of only three coaches ever to win a college national football championship and a Super Bowl?

[1135] Yeah, he's like a EGOT.

[1136] Yeah.

[1137] In Hollywood, if you won an Emmy, a Grammy, a Tony, and an I, that's called an EGOT.

[1138] There's very few EGOTs.

[1139] There's like five people who have it.

[1140] So you're the equivalent of the EGOT.

[1141] You have an online platform, right, called Compete to Create that you and Michael do.

[1142] And how do people use it?

[1143] What's it for?

[1144] Why did you think you discovered something that could be useful to organizations?

[1145] Well, just over the years, we recognized that people were drawn to the stuff that we do and how we do it.

[1146] and I sensed that a while back and tried to figure out how to convey what we do to other people because they were asking about it, you know, how do we put it in a format that you can share it with somebody.

[1147] And so, but when I met Michael, Michael had such discipline to himself and such understanding about performance and we connected so on so many different levels that I thought maybe this would be a chance for us to find a way to blend what we think and what we believe in and make an offering to other people.

[1148] Like a curriculum?

[1149] Yeah, and create a curriculum that would be available to people so that they want to understand us more fully they could.

[1150] And, you know, we were reinforced by so many different people that would come to us and want to spend time with us.

[1151] My favorite one was Steve Curry, you know, he came in.

[1152] He was just going to start up as a new coach and he wanted to, I don't know why he picked us, but he came in and sure, come on hang with us for a few days, you know.

[1153] By the way, there's a guy who worked for the Buddha, right?

[1154] He worked for coach, Phil Jackson.

[1155] He worked for Phil, and he had some great relationships with other coaches.

[1156] He had all up on all the winning and all the other stuff.

[1157] to, and it was a fantastic guy.

[1158] I'm just saying for you, a little bit of feather in your cap.

[1159] The guy who was...

[1160] Well, yeah, I'm not...

[1161] He had the wisdom to try to figure out, I need to get organized, you know, and get my act together because I'm going to go coach the Warriors.

[1162] I don't know.

[1163] Never coached a team of any sort, you know, here he is in the top of the heap.

[1164] Anyway, but that's just an illustration of a guy who he kind of took what he took out of it.

[1165] And now he's an advocate kind of in certain ways, but he's totally done his own thing, which is great and awesome.

[1166] All of those kinds of examples for...

[1167] us just made us more power in wanting to find a way.

[1168] So we have an online course that we offer.

[1169] We're doing some really good things and we're helping people find their best is really what we're trying to do.

[1170] And there's so many more ways for us to continue to endeavor to figure this out.

[1171] That's why I love that we're the form of science institute at SC as part of us.

[1172] We're having a chance to work through education too and to share our ideas with people so that they can help themselves out, you know.

[1173] And so that's what we're doing.

[1174] We're doing a lot of work with Microsoft.

[1175] You know, we've got some nice companies.

[1176] We've had a number of big groups that work with us.

[1177] And so hopefully it's a good thing.

[1178] Yeah.

[1179] One of the things I found fascinating about it is, is him saying that, you know, first you have to isolate what you think is possible.

[1180] And I find that to be both daunting in its broadness and also liberating in that it's not going to be a standard someone else necessarily set.

[1181] It's not going to be against another person.

[1182] It's kind of be, what do you think your potential is?

[1183] Let's plan a flag in that and let's aim towards that.

[1184] It's why we begin with self -discovery, really.

[1185] Self -discovery is where you've got to start, and you've got to find it, figure it out.

[1186] It was at the essence of what happened to me and my coaching that I got beat down enough times where I just went back inside and locked myself in the room and just like we're sitting in right here and just had to figure it out, you know, where I'm coming from, what am I all about?

[1187] I'm going to get my ass kicked again, you know, if I don't get my act together.

[1188] I'm going to get my ass kicked anyway, but let's at least go out and fighting and clawing it at our best.

[1189] And so we start with self -discovery, which is so valuable.

[1190] And whether it's self -discovery of the individual, self -discovery of your group or your corporation or your family or it connects and it makes sense.

[1191] The course in itself is really designed for an individual person, you know, and then it's the teachings of all of it that can connect with big groups and all of that.

[1192] So it's available.

[1193] And we like that it's available for everyone.

[1194] And you have a book coming out.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] Audible experience has taken us.

[1197] We're going to come out here pretty soon.

[1198] We've done the work and now we've got to get organized to get it revealed and And pretty fun.

[1199] That brings up my time management question.

[1200] How on earth do you juggle these things?

[1201] Really well.

[1202] Really well.

[1203] I don't know.

[1204] Let me quickly call your family and say it.

[1205] Yeah, really.

[1206] It's just important for me to be active and doing stuff and whatever, you know, kind of lights me up.

[1207] I'm chasing.

[1208] And there's so much out there.

[1209] And I think it enriches what I'm doing anyway.

[1210] So I think it's all part of the process of trying to figure out how to be really good at what I'm doing.

[1211] Yeah.

[1212] Well, listen, And it was so grateful that you took time out today.

[1213] I know you had a super busy day.

[1214] You guys are awesome.

[1215] Oh, come on.

[1216] Yeah.

[1217] Never talk to the football coach is very exciting.

[1218] Find you very inspirational.

[1219] You're well -dressed.

[1220] You're in great shape.

[1221] Your skin is luminescent.

[1222] Come on, man. You know, if the other book doesn't take off, you need to do just kind of like a personal style and health book, you know, something a little more vain.

[1223] Okay, well, Glenn, because if I end up, if I look like you in 24 years, I'm going to be fucking doing backflips.

[1224] Awesome.

[1225] It's just a number.

[1226] It's just a freaking number.

[1227] Keep running.

[1228] Well, you're the oldest coach in the league.

[1229] Is that fuck with you at all?

[1230] Only when people bring it up.

[1231] Only right now.

[1232] Right now it is.

[1233] Well, I would have never thought it by looking at you if I hadn't read it.

[1234] It was really fun to talk with you guys.

[1235] Yeah, yeah.

[1236] So, well, you're inspirational.

[1237] We love you.

[1238] Thanks a lot for coming.

[1239] All right.

[1240] Thank you so much.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] And I want to say good luck for today, but not good luck.

[1243] Are you playing the Chargers?

[1244] Yeah, we're playing the Chargers tonight.

[1245] Yeah, so not good luck.

[1246] That's okay.

[1247] Thanks.

[1248] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman Who are we fact checking today?

[1249] Pete Carroll.

[1250] Oh, Pete Carroll.

[1251] Petty Carol.

[1252] No, I don't know about you, but as I've said, I have very little interest in football.

[1253] I mean, I like to watch you when it's on, but I'm not like, I don't know the players and all this.

[1254] I don't know many of the rules.

[1255] So not unlike Elizabeth Gilbert.

[1256] I was like, well, I recognize this person's very accomplished.

[1257] Let's talk to them.

[1258] I'm not super into football.

[1259] Yeah.

[1260] But it really transcended football in the most delicious way, right?

[1261] So many ways.

[1262] Well, one, I also don't like football that much.

[1263] Right.

[1264] But I feel bad saying that because I have so many wonderful memories tied to football.

[1265] Yes, those UG games.

[1266] UGA.

[1267] You can't stop saying UG.

[1268] GT.

[1269] Okay.

[1270] Definitely not GT.

[1271] That's Georgia Tech.

[1272] No, that's extraterrestrial.

[1273] Yeah, but anyway, so I like love football in my heart, but I don't ever really watch it.

[1274] Again, I love when I watch a game.

[1275] I get really sucked in.

[1276] I think it's great entertainment.

[1277] Yeah.

[1278] I just like if I miss it, I won't know that I missed a game unless it's, you know, the Rams.

[1279] Now, do you like watching by yourself?

[1280] Like, you'd be fine watching a football game by yourself in your house.

[1281] Yeah, during football season, generally on Sundays when I, work out, down in the basement, I watch football.

[1282] Oh, you do?

[1283] Yeah, it's very inspirational because those men are so strong and fast.

[1284] That's true.

[1285] It could go the other way.

[1286] It could almost be defeating.

[1287] You're like seeing these superhuman men.

[1288] Here you are lifting these measly dumbbells.

[1289] Well, that's glass half empty.

[1290] Yeah, I generally go glass half full.

[1291] You do.

[1292] You have like Arnold Schwarzenegger in your gym.

[1293] That's right.

[1294] Many pictures of him in his prime.

[1295] And even one before his prime.

[1296] The weirdest one I have of Schwarzenegger, of course.

[1297] the one where he was 19 and he was like 260 he was before he like really cut his body and made it proportional he went through a whole phase where he really dialed in the proportions but before that he was just getting as big as possible so the one that you've seen it he looks like he's 10 and he's on this enormous rhino body it looks crazy it's odd but then his last mr olympian or a universe whatever one he won eight times the proportions are spot on oh the golden rule I mean, it is as even as it gets.

[1298] Sure.

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] You know we have different opinions about bodies.

[1301] Yeah, yeah, we do, we do.

[1302] Especially male bodies.

[1303] But, you know, does your ego work this way?

[1304] I swing from abject insecurity to megalomania in two seconds.

[1305] You've said that about yourself.

[1306] So generally, when I look in the mirror, I stare around my navel and I think it's just too much fatty tissue around that area.

[1307] And I'm really down on myself And then occasionally I'll be lifting weights And I look at the picture of Schwarzenegger And I go, I'm almost there Or I think Oh, I almost look like him If the camera lens was correct There's like no normal zone For my ego Interesting I feel like Hmm Well you just went through it So like you just got pages For an audition Yeah And maybe when you first start reading it, you're like, I'm a piece of shit.

[1308] I'm never going to get anything.

[1309] I am not good at this.

[1310] Sure.

[1311] And then you could leave the audition going like, I just gave one of the best auditions ever.

[1312] Do you swing that radically?

[1313] I don't think my swings are that wide.

[1314] They're not.

[1315] No. Okay.

[1316] They're not as bipolar.

[1317] I don't think I ever get to the, I did the, I killed it.

[1318] I mean, I did like, I feel like, oh, I did well, or I did what I was supposed to do.

[1319] I don't feel like, I'm definitely getting it.

[1320] I'm better than everyone else who came in here.

[1321] I killed it.

[1322] I blew everyone out of the, their hair's gone.

[1323] Right.

[1324] What about, let me make it a little more specific.

[1325] What about when you've been, you didn't think you were going to get something, and then you get to set, and then you're acting with everyone else, and then you start comparing yourself to everyone else, and you go like, oh, no, they're not better than me. Does that happen?

[1326] I don't think that would happen.

[1327] The disgusting comparison game.

[1328] Yeah.

[1329] This is an ugly topic.

[1330] I'm really pulling back the curtains.

[1331] Well, it's okay.

[1332] That's what we do here.

[1333] That's how we do it.

[1334] Oh, we do.

[1335] Yeah, okay, I have had that experience.

[1336] Not actually, not on set, like in life.

[1337] Sometimes I have this experience where someone's a little bit on a pedestal or there's like high expectations for a person.

[1338] And then you're around that person and I feel like, oh, that person's.

[1339] You're more competent than that person.

[1340] Sure, or at least as or it's just like, oh, what's, the point of all this like we're all just the same we're all the same yeah would you say that you're defining characteristic your your number one quality is your your competency it's up there i think that would be for me if i had the list like someone yeah someone called me because you had um behind my back applied for some other job and then they and you mean you're also silly enough to use me as a reference yeah what you know you could it's hard because you're my soulmate and my dad and my boss.

[1341] Right.

[1342] So it's kind of tricky.

[1343] But you would be wise to know that even if you double cross me, I would still speak very favor.

[1344] Well, that's the dad and soulmate part.

[1345] Yes, yes.

[1346] So I would say, I think I would go like, listen, you're not going to find a more competent person.

[1347] You can pretty much task her with anything, whether she's ever tried it before or not, and she'll figure out how to get it done.

[1348] That's very nice.

[1349] Because just to say someone's smart, I think smart's a little bit of dime a dozen.

[1350] Is that what they call it?

[1351] Yeah.

[1352] There's a lot.

[1353] There's a ton of smart people.

[1354] I don't even really know.

[1355] To me, what does it even mean?

[1356] Like, smart.

[1357] Because sometimes people call me that.

[1358] Yeah.

[1359] And I don't really know how to respond.

[1360] Because I feel like, not really.

[1361] I just think about things.

[1362] Maybe I'm thoughtful.

[1363] Like, when people say that, I don't really know how to take that in.

[1364] Because I'm like, I don't think that's really true.

[1365] Well, it's definitely true.

[1366] All the different ways.

[1367] we would measure your...

[1368] I didn't, I'm not a...

[1369] I didn't go to a unifile school or anything.

[1370] Well, but you went to a good school and you did great there and you left high school with a 4 .0 or roughly.

[1371] No. Listen, you're very smart.

[1372] I thought you were going to go a different direction.

[1373] Oh, what?

[1374] Which I could see, like, you're smart as a compliment.

[1375] Sam Harris talks about this all the time.

[1376] It's like, there's nothing you can take credit for.

[1377] You're just born smart or you're not.

[1378] There is a variation in intelligence.

[1379] And you're just born with it.

[1380] It's not like you can.

[1381] earned it.

[1382] Right.

[1383] So it's a tricky thing.

[1384] It'd be like if someone said, you're tall and he said, thank you.

[1385] Like I had willed myself to be six to and change.

[1386] I probably should say thank you.

[1387] You're welcome.

[1388] Maybe go straight to you're welcome.

[1389] And then the more you think about it, there's really very few compliments you can accept.

[1390] Yeah, like when people tell you, this isn't for me, but like for other people, if someone tells them they're so pretty, I feel like that much.

[1391] I feel like must be hard to take too because I mean you have to say thanks sure compliment I mean I wit oh man it's always what you don't have right I'm dying for that to be the compliment everyone gives me me too I just want to hear you're hot I could accept you're dumb and lazy and have a shit personality but you're hot as hell I know this is the dream scenario as someone goes like I you know that guy dax he's fucking dumb but man I'd like to fuck him you know my theory is anytime you end the sentence with I'd like to fuck them, it just negates whatever thing was said first.

[1392] For us, for you and I. Well, that's your...

[1393] But for a hottie, if he or she heard they're dumb, but I want to fuck them, they'd be very triggering for them.

[1394] Well, sure.

[1395] Yeah.

[1396] Just understand.

[1397] Oh, my only value is my looks.

[1398] But you and I want our only value to be our looks.

[1399] Yeah, but I don't want...

[1400] I don't want...

[1401] No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not going to go that far.

[1402] I don't want it to be my only value.

[1403] Well, what if you had to pick a singular value?

[1404] I mean, can I start now?

[1405] Yeah, yeah.

[1406] So it's like I've already lived my life with some other experience.

[1407] If I was getting to pick now, then I'd switch into a looks category.

[1408] Uh -huh, sure.

[1409] Because then I've already experienced some of the other kinds.

[1410] Right.

[1411] But look, do I want my kid to be hot or so interesting?

[1412] Of course, I want them to be so interesting.

[1413] Yes, for them.

[1414] But for us, our selfish little piggies.

[1415] I don't, but look, I'm.

[1416] different from you.

[1417] I don't need, I don't need that person to say, I want to fuck her.

[1418] Sure.

[1419] Ours is different.

[1420] Ours is definitely different in that way.

[1421] Yeah, in a very conventionally male, female way, probably.

[1422] I think I want them to say, I'd love to stare at them at dinner.

[1423] Yeah, or I want to marry them.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] Or, I want to marry you.

[1426] Not them.

[1427] I mean, they would be saying them.

[1428] There'd be many.

[1429] Oh, oh, I got you.

[1430] Yeah.

[1431] What if a man said I want to marry your boobs would you like that i kind of feel like that would be cool again that could be a male -female thing that's a yeah because if a gal said i want to marry your penis i find that very flattering sure well she's like we can play at lucy -goosey with you but just i want to marry your penis well listen i think this is also a big male -female difference you associate your penis with your identity that's right yeah and i do not associate your My boobs with my identity at all.

[1432] Other than something I've had to overcome and, like, it's hard to wear good clothes.

[1433] Right.

[1434] But some women have incorporated their breast size into their identity for sure.

[1435] Especially if they get a giant augmentation and it becomes like a real, you know, advertisement for them.

[1436] Yeah.

[1437] Yes.

[1438] That's right.

[1439] But I don't have that.

[1440] No. So if they wanted to marry my boobs, I'd probably be like, keep on walking.

[1441] Anyway.

[1442] Anywho, Pete Carroll.

[1443] Captain Pete Carroll.

[1444] Anyway, yeah, so that morning before we, the morning of my birthday.

[1445] Mm -hmm.

[1446] Birthday morning.

[1447] Yes.

[1448] I was on a run before I came here to interview Pete.

[1449] And I was running and I was like, ugh, I hate this.

[1450] I hate running.

[1451] I hate it.

[1452] Mm -hmm.

[1453] I really wanted to stop early.

[1454] Uh -huh.

[1455] And then I was like, no, just you can do it.

[1456] pushing through.

[1457] And I was, then I started thinking, I was like, I am, I think a lot of that discipline comes from cheerleading.

[1458] And I'm so grateful for that.

[1459] Yes.

[1460] In general, that discipline, not even just with physical stuff.

[1461] But I think a lot of that has to do with like always having to push and be accountable to other people.

[1462] As I said before, I have high expectations for other people.

[1463] And I think that's why.

[1464] Yeah.

[1465] Yeah.

[1466] You're right because unless you do some kind of sport, like in gym class, you're not going to actually be forced to test your metal or go beyond your limits.

[1467] But in when I played basketball, doing killers and shit, I would have never done killers in my life.

[1468] Suicides?

[1469] Did you call them back and forth?

[1470] Yeah.

[1471] Yeah, I would have never had that experience.

[1472] Why would I willingly make myself super uncomfortable?

[1473] Yeah.

[1474] Yeah.

[1475] Well, I have a friend who's a trainer to the stars.

[1476] Oh, sure.

[1477] Duffy.

[1478] sure yeah and um he told me i won't say the actor's name but he was he was training a certain actor and he said uh you know i don't think he's ever had any physical activity so we're starting really from zero so he was basically like his base his junior high basketball coach like you got you got to go you got to push yeah yeah yeah the point is to be uncomfortable yeah so anyway so i was so pete is like he is the person that gives you that to other humans all day long.

[1479] Right.

[1480] It's cool.

[1481] I really wish he had seen Last Chance You.

[1482] I love Last Chance You.

[1483] The current season is phenomenal.

[1484] And that coach, who I like, I think that he's got these amazing qualities.

[1485] He's white, and he's from South Central, and he grew up around all black folks.

[1486] So he really knows how to communicate with kids that have come from a really rough area.

[1487] And he anybody yells a lot.

[1488] And he uses a lot of these techniques that just, you don't think we're.

[1489] Forget everything else, it comes to, it becomes that like torture debate, you know.

[1490] Yeah.

[1491] Which, you know, I may feel differently about torture if it worked, but there's so much evidence that it actually doesn't work.

[1492] Yes.

[1493] That you don't get the truth from it.

[1494] You just get a series of lies they think you want to hear.

[1495] Similarly, I don't, I don't think that that screaming at everyone and shit yields results.

[1496] It's certainly one for me. I know.

[1497] I guess it's just different personality types.

[1498] I bet some people do really thrive off of that.

[1499] Yeah.

[1500] It's kind of like a sick, almost like a masochistic thing.

[1501] I feel like if they had like a dad that like yelled at him and pushed him but then gave him his approval.

[1502] Yeah.

[1503] That there's some, that feels familiar and nice.

[1504] But if you didn't for me, it's so foreign to have a fucking man just scream at you.

[1505] I know.

[1506] It's not for me. I mean, I guess, yeah.

[1507] I guess there is something sort of exciting about someone's approval that's hard to have.

[1508] Mm -hmm.

[1509] And then, so that's sort of what they're displaying, like, I hate you.

[1510] And then eventually they turn.

[1511] Yeah.

[1512] It feels really good.

[1513] Well, that's the, did you watch the, um, the Lake Placid Olympics documentary about the hockey team?

[1514] No. And then it was made into the movie Miracle.

[1515] Oh, I didn't see either.

[1516] And famously like at that time still, we only let college athletes play in the Olympics.

[1517] There was no professionals.

[1518] Now, now it's all professionals.

[1519] Yeah.

[1520] But then it was still a. a collective of college athletes that beat Russia, which was impossible and those were professional players.

[1521] And that coach was kind of celebrated for it.

[1522] His whole plan was always to unite them against him.

[1523] So he was willing to be the asshole that everyone hated to unite them.

[1524] Interesting.

[1525] So I guess there's that version where it seems like it worked.

[1526] I think you need a polytechnical approach where it's like you're adjusting for everyone's personality, which sounds like what Pete does.

[1527] Like maybe he gives the guys who need that, you know, tough love shit, that.

[1528] Yeah.

[1529] And supports others who thrive off that.

[1530] Yeah.

[1531] I mean, I do think the best thing you can do is engender some sort of feeling that the team is one.

[1532] Right.

[1533] And however you do that, I think that's the real keys.

[1534] Well, that's his rule number one.

[1535] Always protect the team.

[1536] Yeah.

[1537] Yeah.

[1538] That's right.

[1539] That's an important factor because it doesn't really matter what the coach is pushing you to do.

[1540] You'll push yourself if you feel like these other people need me to do that.

[1541] Depend on you, yeah.

[1542] Yeah.

[1543] I miss it.

[1544] Yeah.

[1545] You should find your way back into some kind of competitive something.

[1546] I'm going to.

[1547] Okay.

[1548] Well, we're going to have to think on that this week.

[1549] What options are there for you?

[1550] Crosswords.

[1551] I'm not going to be good enough at that, though.

[1552] No. I need to be good at.

[1553] at it.

[1554] Right.

[1555] It's too late in the game to Yeah.

[1556] Become competitive at Crosswords.

[1557] I want to start learning piano.

[1558] I don't think I should get competitive because I'm just about to start learning.

[1559] Yeah.

[1560] Maybe a little early to be competitive.

[1561] Unless we started at the same time.

[1562] Oh, and then we'll get competitive to each other.

[1563] That sounds like it's a good plan for us.

[1564] Okay, so some facts.

[1565] There actually aren't that many facts.

[1566] Oh, well, this just reminded me because he said that he worked at His football coaches, he coached those Pop Warner kids and stuff.

[1567] And I did that.

[1568] We were forced, forced to do that.

[1569] In high school, we had to coach the rec league kids.

[1570] Oh, in cheerleading.

[1571] Yeah, we were assigned a grade.

[1572] There was a horrible incident that happened.

[1573] An injury?

[1574] No. Me. Did you sexually assaults?

[1575] No, no. But, I mean, pretty much worse.

[1576] This girl, it's so sad.

[1577] Oh, good.

[1578] We found one.

[1579] It's really bad.

[1580] This is the kid I punched you.

[1581] I knocked the wind out of?

[1582] It's really bad.

[1583] Yeah.

[1584] So these are like eight -year -olds probably.

[1585] Let it out.

[1586] She has this girl.

[1587] Handmaid's tail when you're in the center chair.

[1588] Guilt.

[1589] Sin, sin, sin.

[1590] So this girl was eight -ish and me and my friend, my other cheerleader friend were their coach and she was in rec league and I think her mom drove the school bus and and she had a huge huge huge mole on her leg on her leg maybe I don't remember where it was, but it was exposed.

[1591] Okay.

[1592] And it was huge.

[1593] Distracting.

[1594] It had a lot of hair.

[1595] Ooh.

[1596] Yeah.

[1597] Well, even at eight.

[1598] Yeah.

[1599] Yeah.

[1600] Yeah.

[1601] It was a real sight.

[1602] Uh -huh.

[1603] Uh -huh.

[1604] It was an eyesore.

[1605] Yes.

[1606] And she was obviously not, like, cool.

[1607] Uh -huh.

[1608] And these were, you know, young cheerleader.

[1609] So, ever, a lot of people were cool.

[1610] Popular, yeah.

[1611] Your face.

[1612] I have a mix, I think, of supporting you until.

[1613] telling the story and then and then just feeling really sad already just that the mom's the school bus driver that's a that's a tough row to hoe in school i wonder if i made that part up i hope i did i really hope i did i don't think i did i think her mom was the bus driver okay and she had a not cute mole and um a barnacle you know she just didn't fit in right and you know you have to like stunt and you know you have to like stunt and you have to kind of, I think people had to, like, touch her mole.

[1614] Oh, okay.

[1615] No one wanted to.

[1616] Anyway, me and my friend were talking about it.

[1617] Okay.

[1618] In a not favorable way.

[1619] Yeah.

[1620] And she heard.

[1621] Oh.

[1622] Which we didn't know.

[1623] Okay.

[1624] It came up like our coach told us.

[1625] Oh, boy.

[1626] Hey, there's this situation.

[1627] We weren't, like, it was kind of, it was extra bad because we weren't.

[1628] getting in trouble right it was just like be more private about yeah like this happened and what happened and we were like did you deny i think at first we were like no sure sure we didn't do no that wasn't us uh -huh or maybe we were like no we were saying it's beautiful and use it as a knob like it's a great opportunity to really get a hold on her when she's flying what you want to do is This will be muscle memory.

[1629] You feel that knob.

[1630] You grab on it and you're never going to lose it.

[1631] Stop calling it a knob.

[1632] Oh, man. Use it as a knob.

[1633] Anyway, and then we talked with her mom, the bus driver.

[1634] Oh, you had to talk to mom.

[1635] Yeah.

[1636] It was, it was, I don't think I've ever told anyone that.

[1637] Yeah.

[1638] It was awful.

[1639] It really was horrible.

[1640] Yeah, I think, I can't imagine.

[1641] of us don't have those memories because I was inclined to go like oh well I was big and I was fighting a lot so maybe it was just me that I hurt someone and I feel terrible about it but I think everyone has gotten ensnared in some shittiness to someone else it's like almost impossible to make it through your life without yeah hopefully you use it that's how you learn yeah you probably felt terrible right yes yeah well I also I felt so many things I felt terrible and I also felt so scared.

[1642] I was like, oh my God, I did something really bad.

[1643] I feel guilty.

[1644] And also I feel like, oh, my life is ruined.

[1645] I'm probably going to get kicked off this cheerleading squad.

[1646] Yeah.

[1647] Your whole life was ending.

[1648] Yeah.

[1649] And the mom was nice to us.

[1650] You and I are both prone to feel like our whole life is ending.

[1651] I wonder again, if that's like broadly universal or not.

[1652] What are people think like these little indiscretions are going to take the whole thing down?

[1653] Yeah.

[1654] That's a really good question i don't i don't think everyone does feel that yeah i guess it it presumes that like you have something you want to keep to begin with which may be a unique yeah yeah did you guys apologize to the girl i think so maybe i mean we apologize to the mom oh i can't i don't know i think we did i'm sure we had to this is one of those you know real murky kind of topics which are you don't want to perpetuate something and yet it's your kid so you know I always bring up the fighting thing like what if your kid was getting picked on would you say punch them you know it's clearly wrong but what's wronger yeah you know part of me wants to go like oh I wish she could have just got the mole removed because you're asking a lot of eight year olds to not care about a mole I know it's it's yes we it would be ideal if the eight year olds didn't care but then you also have to be realistic about the world we live in So it's like, should you get this mole removed?

[1655] You know, I certainly would.

[1656] I know.

[1657] But I don't know if that's the evolve moving in the right direction.

[1658] Like, oh, that's just their crossed bear and it'll build character.

[1659] I don't know.

[1660] It's complicated.

[1661] I just know my heart would snap in half if Lincoln came home and everyone's talking about a mole on her.

[1662] I mean, it would hurt me so much more.

[1663] I know.

[1664] Even Lincoln with these stitches, you know, you've seen me with injuries.

[1665] I could give a fuck.

[1666] I don't care if I got a sling or I'm getting.

[1667] and operated on i don't care at all stitches her stitches in her finger when she touches up my stomach turns i'm like i'm so nervous about her hurting herself yeah i still care that much about someone yeah i feel really bad about that girl yeah that's okay that's that's all part of it she's dead now or something no she's probably the governor of georgia okay again it could be like dyslexia it's probably like to find her if she if she found her confidence And it's like, you know, fuck this world.

[1668] This mole's a superpower.

[1669] Yeah.

[1670] I hope she just got it removed.

[1671] Yeah, that too.

[1672] It wasn't really a mole.

[1673] I mean, it was, but it was like...

[1674] A growth more?

[1675] Like a tumor.

[1676] It was kind of like a tumor that had a pigment.

[1677] Okay.

[1678] And hair.

[1679] It was like a hyperplasia with some malignant tumor -esque qualities.

[1680] Oh, man. Oh, my God.

[1681] You know what's funny is you got to just kind of like, first you, you're feel guilty and you feel mad at yourself that you're so shallow right that's how i feel when i'm like judgmental if someone's got like um tons of flakes all over their eyebrows or something i become aware of it yeah and then i'm mad at myself right but i do imagine there has to be some evolutionary thing where it's like we we have a biological response to be afraid of someone that seems to be carrying a disease or has something infectious i really think that's what it stems from that's why throw up smells so much grosser than anything else to people because there's poison in the throwup and that's why they threw up so you want to be repelled by it yeah so you know not to me but or even like lameness right i don't even know if that's the word you can use anymore but like if kids born with a you know bum leg or arm you know i think evolutionarily you're like oh that's a liability to all of our safety interesting yeah yeah so i don't think you need to beat yourself up that you have those feelings you have to overcome them but i also don't think you need to shame yourself and be so mad and disappointed with yourself that you just, that's your knee -jerk reaction to these things.

[1682] I think it's kind of hardwired in us.

[1683] Yeah, it's like, but it's, but you can be judgmental of your action after the thoughts.

[1684] For sure.

[1685] Yeah.

[1686] Yeah.

[1687] You know what really makes me sad about the story is like, I think we were just talking about it because it was like fun to talk about somebody else.

[1688] Uh -huh.

[1689] You know, the same way, the same thing everyone does all the time where they want to talk about other people to make themselves, I guess, feel better.

[1690] Sure.

[1691] And it was like we were on the cool team.

[1692] Right.

[1693] We didn't have a huge mold.

[1694] Yes.

[1695] And I probably felt like, oh, well, thank God I don't have that because I have all these other things I don't like.

[1696] Yeah.

[1697] Like your whole skin color.

[1698] Yeah.

[1699] Well, this is the thing that's recommended in the broken ladder, which is down comparing.

[1700] I mean, it's basically what you're doing.

[1701] Oh, but that I don't, I wouldn't recommend that.

[1702] I don't think it's good to do that.

[1703] it also is like so stupid like yeah just interesting though but well well hold on down compare not in a mean way but it is good like I'm always saying on here that I'm a six or I don't like like how I look and then so when I think about oh yeah I could like how I look less and I should be grateful and so it could lead me to having gratitude ultimately yeah I guess it's a shame our brains work that way you need to find something It's the one of the worst plight than yours to enjoy your station.

[1704] Okay, so how many people have egotts?

[1705] I said like five people have them.

[1706] 15 people have them.

[1707] Oh, 15.

[1708] Yes, but more than 40 performers are just one away.

[1709] Oh.

[1710] Yeah, including Richard Rogers, Rita Moreno, Audrey Hepburn.

[1711] Well, she's probably not going to get it.

[1712] She won't be able to get it.

[1713] but Mel Brooks, Cher, Kate Winslet, Viola Davis, Common.

[1714] Ooh.

[1715] Helen Mirren, Lynn Manuel Miranda, Dick Van Dyke, Julie Andrews, Lily Tomlin.

[1716] Yep.

[1717] These are some of the people.

[1718] Anywho, so there might be a big influx of egotts.

[1719] Yeah.

[1720] Soon.

[1721] It could get even less exclusive.

[1722] Yeah.

[1723] That's higher than I would have thought.

[1724] Ever?

[1725] It's not very much.

[1726] But I just, how do people win a Grammy?

[1727] Well, if you're an actor.

[1728] Sometimes you can win them in kind of dicey way.

[1729] Yeah.

[1730] Oh, yeah.

[1731] Like even Zach Braff won one, I think.

[1732] Oh, he did?

[1733] Yes, for the soundtrack of.

[1734] Oh, of Garden State?

[1735] Of Garden State.

[1736] That was a great soundtrack.

[1737] It's a great soundtrack.

[1738] It's just when I think of Grammy winners, I think of people who write amazing music, not people who curate.

[1739] Yeah.

[1740] Sometimes you can win them for, like, an audio book.

[1741] or like audio or something.

[1742] Oh, so we might win one.

[1743] I mean, I'd like to.

[1744] Wow.

[1745] Well, yeah, you could be inching towards an EGOT.

[1746] At least nomination.

[1747] Maybe I could be the EGOT nominations.

[1748] So not winner, but I have an Emmy nomination.

[1749] I know.

[1750] So then maybe I'd get a, maybe you could just strive for the nomination.

[1751] I don't think I'm going in.

[1752] And they would introduce you as like Monica Padman, EGOT nominated.

[1753] That's right.

[1754] You know, because they all say that in trailers, Academy Award nominated.

[1755] Yeah, that still, that stays with you.

[1756] too just the nomination yeah i like that i'm happy with that lake was really upset with me that i um that i didn't submit for the emmys yeah i'm upset with you we're like tried to sort that out for five 10 minutes and then ultimately i just landed on like i don't enter pageants what do you think of that like this is a simple as this i don't enter race car i don't enter pageants yeah but a race it has an objective winner someone crosses the finish line first it's real That's true.

[1757] And this is like, I don't know who people like you.

[1758] But I guess the question is like, what's the, I understand the mentality of like, who cares?

[1759] It's all subjective anyway.

[1760] It doesn't really matter.

[1761] All that's true.

[1762] Yeah.

[1763] But it doesn't hurt you to do it.

[1764] So why like make that your cause?

[1765] Because I am so critical of it.

[1766] I would feel hypocritical if I was both so critical of it and then also participate.

[1767] right you know like I'm so regularly like that's horseshit how is such and such not in there that's in there how is it that the best supporting actor always goes to whoever the most famous person was who did a small role on something that year just all these things that I never agree with yeah and then yeah I'm self -critical enough to recognize oh that might be my way of going well of course I never got nominated for one.

[1768] I didn't submit.

[1769] I didn't care enough.

[1770] Yeah.

[1771] Like is it, am I building in an excuse to have never been nominated?

[1772] But I don't think it's that.

[1773] Okay.

[1774] Like I really explored that.

[1775] Yeah.

[1776] And I can just say with full honesty, if there was an Emmy sitting on this fucking credenza over here, I wouldn't care.

[1777] Yeah.

[1778] I don't think I would actually care.

[1779] I mean, it's really fun to win.

[1780] And in the moment it's fun.

[1781] And it's like, but then who cares?

[1782] but I do think a nomination feels actually good.

[1783] Like you become accredited?

[1784] It feels like recognition.

[1785] Somebody noticed I did something well or somebody noticed I worked hard.

[1786] Somebody noticed is a feeling that I like.

[1787] Yes, but I totally agree with that.

[1788] But I get that from, I just told you the other day, it hit me for the first time in the table read in front of the network.

[1789] Like, oh, these people entrusted me to be one of the leads of this.

[1790] show.

[1791] Whether I think I, deserving of it or not, these people all voted and they're in charge and they said I was.

[1792] So that to me was that moment.

[1793] Yeah.

[1794] That's a great moment.

[1795] That I felt like, oh, this is not an accident or anything else.

[1796] The accidents don't really happen like this.

[1797] Right.

[1798] Yeah.

[1799] And so that part, yeah, is nice to recognize.

[1800] The only reason I would want to win one is just to make the speech, you know, because I'd love to talk in public about people I love.

[1801] So I would want to talk about all the people I love.

[1802] That's the part I would not be excited.

[1803] Yeah, isn't that interesting?

[1804] Yeah.

[1805] I mean, I like talking about people I love, but not speech format in where you're already, like, it's so, it's so emotional.

[1806] I can also, I can pinpoint a single experience where I was like, why are we participating in this?

[1807] It was at the Golden Globes last year where Kristen was nominated.

[1808] And we are seated at a table.

[1809] And the tables for the people nominated for television are on the back tier.

[1810] And the people nominated for movies are in the center on the ground floor, which is fine.

[1811] Who gives a fuck?

[1812] Yeah.

[1813] But then there's actually a whole bit about it where Jim Carrey doesn't want to sit in the back TV row, even though he's now on a TV show.

[1814] And then they kick him to the nosebleeds.

[1815] Right.

[1816] And then it just so happens that they picked our table to sit him at for the bit.

[1817] Right.

[1818] So Jim Carrey's like, oh, shit, okay, I'll go sit with the losers and then sits at our table.

[1819] And I'm like, why are we participating in this bit where feelings a little bit?

[1820] Well, no, I was just like, oh, this is so high school.

[1821] For this to even be a bit that makes sense and works and is funny, it has to be true.

[1822] And it is true.

[1823] So one of these people got like dressed up and spent hundreds of dollars getting their makeup done and thousands on outfits to go be done.

[1824] delineated as a second class in this whole high school contest.

[1825] But I don't think it's true.

[1826] Do you think it could be remotely funny if it wasn't true?

[1827] Yes, because I think that's like the idea that there are these separate tears is so ridiculous that it's funny.

[1828] I think that's the thing.

[1829] But it was physically happening.

[1830] All the people on the bottom were in movies.

[1831] Right.

[1832] Which that's so stupid.

[1833] Yeah, so it's not like a hypothetical.

[1834] It really is how the...

[1835] It's what's happening.

[1836] but I think what's being called out is that's absurd.

[1837] Not like this is the way it is and that person's not allowed to sit there.

[1838] Ha, ha, ha.

[1839] It's not that.

[1840] It's like, how dumb is it that there are these separations?

[1841] Well, right, and yet there are.

[1842] It is dumb and it is true.

[1843] I mean, also now, what?

[1844] All those people are on TV shows.

[1845] Yeah, it's just weird to like, for her to have gotten nominated which is so sweet and wonderful and I'm so happy for it.

[1846] And then to arrive at a place and go, oh, but I'm not that.

[1847] Like, there's still another thing.

[1848] Yeah, but that whole circus of ego and status and ranking, I just object to that stuff.

[1849] But yes, I agree, and I do too.

[1850] And also, it's how every person takes it because I don't know, I don't know.

[1851] But I don't think I would care about that at all.

[1852] I don't think.

[1853] I don't think you would the first five years you went.

[1854] Yeah.

[1855] But I think on year 15, you'd be like, oh, we're all being duped.

[1856] They're giving away these little awards.

[1857] So everyone agreed to come and give these people a really, really expensive night of television for free because our egos want us to participate and win and be recognized and be officially knighted as being in this group.

[1858] Totally.

[1859] And then these smarter people are just getting this crazy TV show out of it where they could never get all these actors in one place for under a billion dollars.

[1860] Yes.

[1861] they're like hey let's just give them this fucking piece of metal in the wall come that the cynic in me feels that way a little bit about it i get that this is not to take away anyone who's won i'm proud of them and yeah and a lot of people deserve those things yeah and i genuinely on top of all this let me just say i don't really think i'd ever get nominated anyway i do so it's just like a fifteen dollars i don't need to spend you know it's 15 bucks or something to submit maybe even more yeah yeah i'd like to see you get recognized you uh -huh thank you but i get recognized on here you do that's true yeah and this is way more rewarding than getting recognized i mean i think part of it for me is just like yeah if you you know all this is so stupid so sure yeah that's that's the easier going way to just roll through life i think i don't know i'm i also don't go to these things so maybe I would feel very very differently if I I mean I did go once with Kristen and I did hate it right right that's why I guess I will then they put you a chair in a weird spot for you and everyone's eating and you didn't get food or something oh my god but that's kind of my exact point just by the by the by the pure premise of the thing there has to be people sitting in a chair that don't get food it's just like it's because it's a it's a sword there's two edges to it to be to be like hoisting all these people up to this elevated level it just has to demote everyone else that's not those people and then there's these limited resources whether it's space at a table or food that that are going to get assigned to the more important people it all seems to me a little unhealthy yeah the idea i hate the idea of more important people yes and the reward is you get paid a lot of money to fucking play around on a set that's your reward yeah you know we don't need another you know what needs an award is is roofers yeah they need a banquet and an award you know i was thinking this on set we were on set this week and yeah i struggle so much with all of that your place and the hierarchy yes and then i was looking at the stand in and i was like oh my gosh said the stand in but people don't know is the person that while they're lighting they stand they there so the actor does not have to stand there while they fix all the lighting and fine -tune the cameras yes which can be like an hour of just standing and they're wearing the same clothes that the actor wears so that they can match the lighting and they normally have the same color hair they try to like match up as much as possible the purpose of them is to stand and be overlooked and do something that is not worth someone else's time And I was looking at this person and I was like, that is the most egosless job I've ever, ever come across.

[1862] Yeah.

[1863] Let's add to it because I was just thinking this this week, we had a, Lake and I had a bunch of bed scenes where we're like, she's laying on me looking at a computer.

[1864] And the standings had to like lay on each other, but they don't have the benefit of like lines and interaction.

[1865] So it's like if Lake and I were just laying on each other, it would be so fucking.

[1866] awkward.

[1867] But we're in a scene and we're talking and then we're doing all this.

[1868] Yes.

[1869] But to just be like laying on a stranger for an hour, I was like that.

[1870] It's got to feel so weird.

[1871] Like could be a mannequin.

[1872] Like maybe in my opinion, should be a mannequin.

[1873] Like why are we making?

[1874] I guess it's like another job for somebody.

[1875] That's right.

[1876] Those people want those jobs.

[1877] But it's also they got there's blocking, right?

[1878] So they got to move quite often.

[1879] And so they would need robots.

[1880] Well, I like robots.

[1881] I just don't think it's emotionally.

[1882] How can that be good for that person?

[1883] Well, that's what Jervais was genius for creating that show extras because it really just went into how much awkwardness is in the stand -in world.

[1884] Anyhow.

[1885] Yeah, those people deserve an award.

[1886] They really do.

[1887] Yeah.

[1888] They really do.

[1889] And they also, like, probably take a lot of pride in it and they should.

[1890] And they're in the union and they make a good way.

[1891] Yes.

[1892] Yeah.

[1893] Yeah.

[1894] Yeah.

[1895] Yeah, they probably are making more doing that than they would be driving an Uber.

[1896] Yeah.

[1897] No, you're right.

[1898] That was all the facts.

[1899] Yeah.

[1900] Oh, okay.

[1901] They really weren't very many.

[1902] Well, we really deep dove into, would you say deep dived?

[1903] This is like hanged and hung.

[1904] Yeah, this is.

[1905] Okay, we really deep dived into award culture.

[1906] Unexpectedly.

[1907] But not unexpectedly because he is a winning.

[1908] A winning.

[1909] Yeah.

[1910] And a national college.

[1911] football championship one of three people i just like when people with a kinder approach succeed you know i often think i'm not a big enough dick to be a good director what because i don't yell at people either you've been on set where i was directing yeah i'm very yeah energized and excited and never yelling at anyone and i forbid yelling at people as a director as a director yeah and um i often think well probably never direct anything greats i think those people have to be dicks i do not You hear these stories about They're just They're just asshole That does not Who Who feels emotionally comfortable In that environment This isn't like Sports Like sports Like sports at least You can use the screaming To like get physically angry Yeah That is in an acting situation You're supposed to be vulnerable And so no Yeah I think they treat it like Like a military operation Some of these people Yeah I don't like I don't need to work With any of those people ever All right Well, that's, um...

[1912] That's our show.

[1913] That's our show.

[1914] I love you.

[1915] Let's go on vacation.

[1916] Okay, I love you.

[1917] Bye.

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[1921] Thank you.