Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard XX
[0] I'm David Ferrier, in New Zealand are accidentally marooned in America, and I want to figure out what makes this country tick.
[1] Now, often on the show, we tackle really big things that make America puzzling to me as an outsider, tipping, flags, Thanksgiving, laundromats, school cafeterias, and the ridiculously high level of water in the toilet bowl.
[2] But each day I'm faced with other smaller mysteries, things that are treated as normal in day -to -day life here, when being anything but normal.
[3] Well, I took my shoes off.
[4] Of course I took my shoes off.
[5] Yeah, you do.
[6] You do it.
[7] I've been going through old audio of this show and found a bit where me, Dax and Monica are talking at a Thanksgiving party.
[8] We were recording episode 28, Thanksgiving.
[9] And I just noticed that we're in somebody else's house and I was the only one who had taken my shoes off at the front door.
[10] That's something I've been thinking about a lot since I've been in America and I'm glad you raise it.
[11] I always take my shoes off indoors.
[12] I've noticed most people, like everyone here right now, is wearing shoes except me. Yes, a lot of houses prefer shoes off, so you're doing the right thing.
[13] Once I saw Brea had her shoes on, I was like, let's party.
[14] Monica told me her take on taking shoes off at a dinner party.
[15] I don't.
[16] Dax agreed.
[17] If someone did that in my house, I'd be like, you're too comfy.
[18] It falls under the farting category.
[19] I want someone to feel comfortable enough to fart around me. You included, David.
[20] But there's no way we would not have to acknowledge it's more sanitary.
[21] Americans are too busy working.
[22] We don't have the time to take our shoes on and off.
[23] I feel alone in so many American houses because I look around and it's just me with my tootsies out.
[24] Everyone else is in shoes.
[25] It's backed up by a poll CBS did last year, which found a majority of Americans don't.
[26] ask their guests to remove their shoes when they come to visit, and this is particularly true of older Americans.
[27] I look at TV shows, and so often characters are all wearing their shoes inside.
[28] What the hell is going on?
[29] So, get ready to kneel down and learn how to tie an untie a shoelace, because this is the Shoes Endors episode.
[30] All right, so I should note that we all have our shoes on right now.
[31] I've got Crocs, so they're semi -out.
[32] Okay, but would you ever come into work and take your shoes off?
[33] Yes, I used to.
[34] So when I worked at it, but that was unique to me. So when I worked in a newsroom in New Zealand, I just hate having my shoes on.
[35] I just don't like the feeling of having my feet contained.
[36] Okay.
[37] But it wasn't a common thing.
[38] So in New Zealand generally work, definitely shoes on, office, but any house in New Zealand, you would generally, I stopped being friends with someone just out of university because they came into my house with shoes on.
[39] And it was like the final straw of deciding that it wasn't a friendship I wanted to keep because they clomp some dirt down the hallway.
[40] That feels really aggressive.
[41] It was aggressive.
[42] But it was the end of a lot of things happening.
[43] But my point being, shoes and doors in New Zealand, it's not on.
[44] Okay.
[45] How do you feel?
[46] Because I know at Thanksgiving when we talked, and that was like a year over a year ago now.
[47] What are your thoughts about it as you stand now?
[48] Say someone visits your apartment.
[49] What's happening?
[50] Okay.
[51] I am assuming they're going to have shoes on the whole time.
[52] And I'm totally great with that.
[53] Yeah.
[54] And if they ask me, which often people will, like, oh, should I take my shoes on?
[55] I say, no, no, you're good.
[56] Right.
[57] But no one says, can I take my shoes off?
[58] Do people ever take them off?
[59] Okay, the only time it would maybe happen and sometimes happens in the attic is if we're sitting for a long time and then we just throw our shoes off here.
[60] Oh, you're sort of casually, yeah.
[61] Exactly.
[62] While you're sitting, you kind of like just toss them off and then you get comfy.
[63] And so sometimes that would happen at a dinner party or something.
[64] People would be eating and maybe take their shoes off at their seat.
[65] But no one is coming in, dropping the shoes at the door.
[66] Are you ever concerned that if they've been tramping down the street and they might have picked something up on the bottom of the shoe?
[67] Is that ever a concern?
[68] Or do you have a mat that people can...
[69] I have a mat.
[70] It says in this house we play Taylor's version.
[71] Oh, that's good.
[72] So people can wipe their dirt off, but also...
[73] No, I'm kind of grossed out by their stinky foot.
[74] in their stinky sock.
[75] Yeah, because that's the other issue.
[76] I guess the shoe comes off, you're dealing with potentially a sweaty sock.
[77] Or if they take the sock off, you're dealing with just a foot.
[78] And then if people step on it, on the foot, and then they sue you.
[79] Yeah, there's that.
[80] There's a safety thing as well.
[81] Yeah.
[82] Maybe a little nail or a tack is full on your floor and they might get something through there.
[83] Exactly.
[84] I think I'm more concerned about that.
[85] Like, oh, no, what if they step on glass in my apartment?
[86] Have you ever in America gone to someone's house and they've gotten offended that you've left shoes on or have you ever had an awkward moment or is this just your whole life everyone in america is just wearing shoes indoors all the time and there's never any conflict there is but it's normally not conflict it's just people in america people know if they have a shoes off house if they decide that they know to tell you immediately yeah we have a shoes off house you do oh okay here we go yeah okay this is amazing is this because i hate to stereotype Because Natalie's Asian.
[87] No, my house growing up was also shoes off.
[88] It's definitely like New Zealand, Australia, and do you know, a lot of Asian cultures, shoes off?
[89] Why in your family?
[90] Why did you grow up?
[91] What was the reason?
[92] I think because my mom was like a neat freak, clean freak, germ freak.
[93] And how do you enforce it?
[94] Is it verbally or do you put signs around the house saying, check your shoes, make sure they're off?
[95] It sometimes can just.
[96] Because you forget it?
[97] No. We've put a shoe rack.
[98] at the front door.
[99] So it's like kind of a signal.
[100] And now ours is on inside.
[101] Who's not doing it?
[102] You or her?
[103] No, no. It's more like friends come over.
[104] And then I'm obligated.
[105] Like we'll have friends that will just come in with their shoes and then I'll get out of text like.
[106] From Natalie?
[107] Yeah.
[108] You guys.
[109] I love that.
[110] I support this.
[111] Absolutely not.
[112] If you are going to be a shoes off household in America, you can't be passive aggressive.
[113] You have to be able to say, hey guys, leave your shoes at We normally do, but sometimes I won't.
[114] Sometimes if I'm not close enough with someone, I feel weird.
[115] If you're having like 20 people come over, it's like a lot of shoes to police.
[116] Well, then you just deal with it.
[117] It's an uphill battle, having to do it.
[118] Wow.
[119] Well, you could have a sign on the door, I guess.
[120] Yeah, maybe that's what we need to do.
[121] Just have a sign.
[122] Okay, so what about, and this is in your world, because I want to know the limits of this, because I've watched some American TV shows, and this is what I was thinking about as well.
[123] Okay.
[124] I've seen shows where there'll be characters on a bit.
[125] bed, some of them they've got the shoes on, it's disgusting.
[126] That's disgusting.
[127] Okay, so the shoes come off.
[128] There's limits.
[129] Yes, not on the bed.
[130] Carpet, though?
[131] Like, do you have carpet in your apartment?
[132] No. Okay, what about the couch?
[133] I've rugs, though.
[134] Someone kicks their feet up on the couch.
[135] Okay.
[136] The couch is a little bit more of a gray area.
[137] Like, to me, bed is a non -negotiable.
[138] It's a no -go.
[139] Although, I have seen Dax on his bed sometimes with the shoes on.
[140] Yeah, it's common, I think.
[141] He hates not wearing shoes.
[142] He's the opposite.
[143] He wants the tootsies wrapped.
[144] He's ready to run out the door.
[145] Yeah, okay, right.
[146] He's ready for action.
[147] Yes.
[148] And for me, absolutely not in bed.
[149] Not on the couch either.
[150] For me. Yeah.
[151] But I've done it.
[152] I've done it on the couch.
[153] Yeah.
[154] In your own couch, I feel like you can stretch things.
[155] Oh, I would never do it on someone else's couch.
[156] You wouldn't do it on someone else's couch.
[157] No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, okay.
[158] Yeah.
[159] But in my apartment, just.
[160] me on an average day Yeah, every day, bouncing around the house, cooking.
[161] I'm probably wearing shoes are on.
[162] Shoes most of the time.
[163] So you're leaping out of bed and the shoes like you're sort of putting the shoes on?
[164] No, you're right.
[165] When I wake up, no shoes until I get ready to leave.
[166] Okay.
[167] And if it's rainy, are you taking them off as soon as you get in?
[168] Or are you just wiping them?
[169] Yeah, I am.
[170] I'm taking a rain boot off.
[171] You're not tramping your wet boots all over the house.
[172] sort of wet marks everywhere.
[173] Or if I'm wearing high heels, those are off immediately because they hurt.
[174] I found something out recently.
[175] Until about a year ago, I was wearing a shoe size, one too small for my feet.
[176] And I got bunions.
[177] I always thought that was normal, but someone saw my feet and they were like, that's disgusting.
[178] And then you moved up a size and it felt better?
[179] And I was like, yeah.
[180] And I always thought my whole life for sort of 40 years, I thought these are a bit tight.
[181] But I'd always know when I was a 12.
[182] But then I tried in a store, I tried a 13 just to see what happened.
[183] And it was great.
[184] my God, this feels like I'm floating on a cloud.
[185] And so that's been a new thing I've discovered recently.
[186] And I think maybe that's why I am so anti -shoe because of kind of a lot of my life may be constrained because I'm too much of an idiot to think maybe I should try a size up.
[187] I think it's actually more your New Zealand Tall Poppy Syndrome.
[188] You didn't want to be a person who had a size 13 because that's a big ship.
[189] It feels like you look at the 13 shoe and you're like, oh my God.
[190] I look like clumpy, old clumpy over here.
[191] Well, no. No, I mean, I think in America, we think a big shoe size is cool.
[192] It's a cool, that's a cool thing.
[193] Yeah, right.
[194] It's like a whole patriarchy.
[195] It's all that thing.
[196] Yeah.
[197] I just see like a big ugly shoe.
[198] I'm like, this is ridiculous.
[199] I look like I'm clumping around the house.
[200] All right.
[201] Well, look, I made a little documentary about this topic.
[202] I got to admit, it stretched a bit thin.
[203] It did.
[204] But look, we'll see how it goes.
[205] Okay, great.
[206] And I talk to someone in the show, the episode, who's kind of amazing.
[207] I really like her.
[208] Oh, fun.
[209] Okay.
[210] Okay.
[211] I knew I wasn't alone in my worry about what I was seeing unfold all around me. Like the same goes, never, don't judge a book by its cover.
[212] And I think I chose you as one of the candidates for the speed dating because I agree the point that never judged the book by its cover.
[213] Ooh.
[214] Nice.
[215] Yeah.
[216] Love on the spectrum is one of my favorite shows.
[217] And while browsing the show's Reddit page, I found this.
[218] Why do the Americans wear shoes inside the house?
[219] I saw Danny sitting on her bed with boots on.
[220] In all other countries I've been and everyone takes their shoes off before entering their home or somebody else's home.
[221] It's considered rude.
[222] They raised a good point.
[223] Americans appear not just to be wearing shoes inside the house, but they're wearing them on things like the bed.
[224] Maybe in the bed.
[225] Where did this chaos stop?
[226] Did it stop?
[227] I began to think about American etiquette and Audrey Hepburn and My Fair Lady.
[228] You see this creature with that curb.
[229] Stone English, the keep her in the gutter until the end of her days.
[230] Ew, what's that, you say?
[231] In six months, I'll make a Duchess of this draggletail gutter snipe.
[232] Thinking of Eliza Doolittle, I knew who I needed to talk to to get to the bottom of this shoes -and -side situation.
[233] I needed a modern -day Henry Higgins, because this was a question of etiquette.
[234] My name is Elaine Swan.
[235] I am a lifestyle and etiquette expert, and I spend my time healthy people to navigate a variety of social situations, and I have a whole lot of fun doing it.
[236] I spent quite a bit of time Googling American etiquette experts and was surprised to find there are quite a few here.
[237] But I ended up settling on a lane because I liked the name of her school, the Swan School of Protocol.
[238] It sounded like it had authority that I could trust it.
[239] How did you get into that line of work?
[240] I became an etiquette professional by being a student of etiquette.
[241] I started out as a young age at Charm School.
[242] My mom felt like that was something that was necessary for me to kind of really help increase my confidence.
[243] And it actually worked.
[244] And from there, I moved into the pageant industry.
[245] I was a flight attendant for 10 years at Continental Airlines.
[246] And I took the international etiquette and protocol training.
[247] And so all of that culminated into me volunteering, the volunteering opportunity to turned into a one -time gig with a junior high school with kids.
[248] And after returning to that school multiple times and them paying me money, I recognize that this was number one, a great opportunity and a viable business.
[249] And more importantly, I really enjoyed seeing the transformation that the students made after going through the program.
[250] And so now, here I am later, four books in.
[251] I've authored four books.
[252] and I have just celebrated my 20 -year anniversary as an etiquette professional.
[253] 20 years is impressive, and I knew I'd come to the right woman.
[254] I also felt like I've been transported back into another time with this talk of charm schools and etiquette professionals.
[255] It occurred to me I could probably do with some of her training.
[256] I use my phone at the table all the time, and my friends accused me of not listening to them properly.
[257] So here in America, one of the things that I, notice is that folks have a tendency to say that etiquette is a lost art. And I think the thing that's been lost is the formal teaching of what we're supposed to do when we interact with people.
[258] I think that's the part that's lost.
[259] But the desire that people have to not offend others still remains the same.
[260] I mean, everywhere we go, whether we're in the parking lot at the grocery store or we're online or we're in the workplace.
[261] People still want to be respect, and they still feel that we should conduct ourselves in a manner that is considerate towards others.
[262] And those are the core values that have not gone anywhere.
[263] I remembered my mission for this episode.
[264] Find out where shoes inside the house fitted into America's core values.
[265] Well, statistically speaking, what studies have shown is that two out of three Americans do not wear shoes in the house at all.
[266] That's for certain.
[267] She's right.
[268] I've looked at some recent surveys, and in general, 63 % of American households take their shoes off inside.
[269] That's good.
[270] But it also means that 37 % of Americans think it's okay to wear shoes indoors.
[271] Why?
[272] From what I can tell, it's a bit to do with what Dax said.
[273] Convenience and saving time.
[274] Americans are too busy working.
[275] We don't have the time to take our shoes on and off.
[276] Other Americans talk of needing the support shoes offer, which I think is kind of bullshit, while others argue that wearing shoes inside protects their feet from getting dirty.
[277] I can understand this if you're visiting your friend who keeps 20 cats, but in general, I call bullshit.
[278] You're more likely to get filth on someone's floor from your shoes than your feet getting dirty from a floor.
[279] Where things get truly alarming is when it comes to what Americans do in other people's houses, like when me, Rob, Dax and Monica went to that Thanksgiving dinner.
[280] But one of the things that I find is unique is they are not wearing their shoes themselves in the house.
[281] When guests come over, they most certainly do allow guests to keep their shoes on.
[282] Whereas in other countries, the first thing you're thinking is, you know, shoes off, buddy, you're not traipsing that stuff up in here.
[283] But for whatever reason, Americans, they just let you just come on up in the house with your shoes on and bring whatever's on the outside to the inside.
[284] I don't know why that is.
[285] And that's what alarms me, the stuff that's on the bottom of a shoe.
[286] I don't care how disgusting your feet are.
[287] I feel I'd rather have a disgusting foot than a disgusting shoe tramping all around my house.
[288] I'm watching an episode of Inside Edition, who recently looked at what you find on the bottom of a shoe.
[289] Disgusting.
[290] It's understandable.
[291] Streets and sidewalks are covered in filth.
[292] Dog poop.
[293] But we wondered how much of that germy stuff could you really be tracking into your home?
[294] and could it make you sick?
[295] The reporter did a bunch of testing and found that, yes, shoes are disgusting.
[296] It's something that alarms etiquette expert Elaine Swan as well.
[297] The etiquette part of it is how to tell folks to take those shoes off when they enter your home.
[298] So yes, we're definitely leaving them on, but we should be asking people to take them off, and you can do so nicely.
[299] Because I feel as a New Zealander, we are so worried about offending other people.
[300] I find incredibly difficult to bring something up like that.
[301] So I'd probably benefit from the school myself, to be honest.
[302] Absolutely.
[303] So here's how you do it, all right?
[304] If someone arrives to your home and you are a shoes off person, you can say this.
[305] Welcome.
[306] We're so glad you're here.
[307] We are a shoes off household.
[308] So we've got this little section right here for you to take your shoes off.
[309] And in this lovely basket are some socks.
[310] If you want to cover your feet with them and, you know, just put them on and enjoy yourself.
[311] Boom, that's it.
[312] So two things.
[313] Number one, have a place for people to put their shoes.
[314] Stop them at the door, let them know this is what we do.
[315] They put their shoes there.
[316] The second thing, which is so great, and it's such a great host move or hostess move, if you will, is to have a basket of socks or foot covering or what have you for folks when they come over.
[317] And it doesn't cost a lot.
[318] I mean, you can go to the dollar store, pick up a few socks, throw them in a basket, and it can be a great parting gift for your guest.
[319] So you're with me on this.
[320] You know, shoes should come off at the door, right?
[321] That seems sensible.
[322] I believe shoes should certainly come off at the door.
[323] For the first time in a long time, I feel sane, an American agreeing with me. Still, Elaine says there are some exceptions to taking your shoes off indoors, but they're rare occasions and not an excuse to wear your filthy shoes inside all the time.
[324] Now, you will find there are some instances where people would prefer to leave their shoes.
[325] shoes on.
[326] And that's when we're looking at maybe it's part of your ensemble.
[327] So you've invited folks over for a cocktail party or maybe there's some sort of sports gathering and you've got the whole outfit on with the matching jersey and the matching sneakers or what have you and people are coming through.
[328] But if someone's coming over and they're just hanging out, they're lounging around, most certainly invite your guests to take their shoes off.
[329] Interesting take.
[330] Monica, You were strongly disagreeing with some of these.
[331] It's a different take on shoes.
[332] Well, one, I'm really glad she reminded me about fashion.
[333] How could I have forgotten?
[334] That's a huge piece of this.
[335] Yeah, if you turn up in an outfit.
[336] Yes, and I have to take my shoes off.
[337] Often, the shoe is a huge part of the outfit.
[338] It's part of the outfit.
[339] It's part of the whole outfit falls apart as the shoes come off.
[340] Exactly.
[341] And also, if I go to someone's house, Rob, this is for you.
[342] If I go to your house and you say, hey, you know, where shoes off house, feel free to put them there.
[343] And if you want a sock, a sock, I'll throw up on your floor and then stepping it in my shoes and walk all over your house.
[344] Fuck that.
[345] If anyone is making me wear their sock, ew.
[346] I think in this case, they're buying separate socks.
[347] Natalie's mom has asked for socks from Natalie.
[348] I know.
[349] Okay, your mom to your daughter, maybe.
[350] But if I'm just at someone's house and there - But if you came to my house, say, Monica, come over, come over tonight, 6 o 'clock.
[351] Meet my ghost.
[352] Yeah, meet your dinner.
[353] Yeah, meet the ghost at dinner and stuff.
[354] And you get to the door and there is a beautiful pair.
[355] I say this is a shoes -off apartment, Monica.
[356] If you look down there in that bin, there are some brand -new socks that are bought.
[357] They've got little tag on.
[358] Yeah, yeah, the little plastic thing on.
[359] And there, can you please take those filthy?
[360] You've walked here from your house.
[361] I have, yeah.
[362] There's some dog shirt on your shoes, some old bit of hair.
[363] And I don't want to look at your feet.
[364] But I don't want to look at your feet.
[365] And I want your feet to be in a sock.
[366] A tampon.
[367] Ew.
[368] All sorts of stuff out there.
[369] Sick.
[370] It's all sorts of things.
[371] Okay.
[372] Would you do that?
[373] Yes.
[374] Yeah, but.
[375] That is a, and then what I do, and then when you leave, you take the socks off.
[376] Yeah, and then when you come back to the house, you can, those can always be your socks to wear at my house.
[377] No. You have to buy new pairs of them.
[378] Another fresh pair.
[379] Oh, God, it's going to get expensive.
[380] If you're having a big cocktail party and you have to buy 30 pairs of socks, absolutely not.
[381] Some people will be wearing their own socks and some people can go barefoot if they want.
[382] Some people could go barefoot.
[383] I don't know if you do laundry the same way I do laundry and maybe you're leaving some mold on the sock and you're not letting it dry.
[384] You're not drying all the way and it's stupid.
[385] You don't trust the washing of the sock.
[386] I do remember now when one time I went to buy a pair of shoes, side 12, the wrong size.
[387] I went in in Jandals, which is the New Zealand word for flip -lops.
[388] And so they had a big thing of socks that I could put on to try the shoes.
[389] And that felt bad.
[390] I think they were socks to other people that maybe used before, and I wasn't happy about that.
[391] How do you feel about what's happening right now?
[392] Okay, so interesting.
[393] Yeah, you are cross -legged and one of your shoes is on the sofa.
[394] The chair, yeah.
[395] The chair.
[396] Yeah.
[397] But with a fabric chair.
[398] chair.
[399] What was that?
[400] Char.
[401] A fabric chow.
[402] It's literally good.
[403] No, see, this is, okay, this is the root of the problem.
[404] But I think I do this sometimes.
[405] I didn't notice.
[406] It's different in a workspace, though.
[407] I don't think it's weird that we wear shoes in here.
[408] But do you think it's weird that it's on the fabric chair, though?
[409] Let me see the bottom of that little foot.
[410] Let me see it.
[411] They're not too bad.
[412] They're not too bad.
[413] Have you been anywhere that, have you seen when someone will have, like, slip covers for your shoes.
[414] So if you want to keep your shoes on, yeah, pop them over.
[415] They've got, they've got little slips.
[416] That's a good idea.
[417] A little plastic bag.
[418] They're in a rubber band.
[419] They make those.
[420] They make them.
[421] Yeah, that's what I'm doing for you.
[422] They're like a hair net for shoes.
[423] 100%.
[424] If you make me wear a, you turn up, I'm going to have a hazmat suit that you put on.
[425] This cover the whole body.
[426] I don't want any part of you.
[427] I know, you don't even want.
[428] Don't invite me. You don't want me there.
[429] I don't want a bit of hair falling off your head.
[430] Oh, my hair, I shed like crazy.
[431] If I come over, my hair will be in your apartment for sure.
[432] Yeah, right.
[433] This is what I would normally do.
[434] I've now taken my shoes off so that I...
[435] See, you barely even notice.
[436] Okay, Monica's just taking the shoes off.
[437] These two shoes are now sat there.
[438] You're comfortable doing this.
[439] Your feet are not sweeter, or smelly.
[440] They're great feet.
[441] So this is how it should be.
[442] I feel comfortable taking my shoes off here in this attic and being in socks on the chair.
[443] But you know what I definitely don't want to do?
[444] I would not want to walk right now in my socks to the bathroom.
[445] You know the worst thing I've ever seen in my life?
[446] What?
[447] The flight to New Zealand.
[448] It's a 12 -hour flight.
[449] Bathrooms get pretty nasty.
[450] I've seen some people walk into the bathroom in socks.
[451] This is why.
[452] That's worse.
[453] That's the worst case example.
[454] That's leaning into your argument.
[455] I think socks are so much more disgusting than shoes.
[456] Really?
[457] Well, public places.
[458] Yeah, you don't wear socks on the ground.
[459] Yeah, that was one of the worst things we've ever seen.
[460] But your home is not a public place.
[461] That's true.
[462] Interesting, though.
[463] Sort of its perspective of cleanliness of the house, your own foot, smell.
[464] It's like a balancing act between those two things.
[465] I'm being selfish.
[466] Like, I'm protecting my foot.
[467] Yeah.
[468] Instead of protecting your apartment.
[469] Yeah.
[470] In my own apartment, though, I don't care if people wear shoes.
[471] Yeah, completely.
[472] It is the feet.
[473] You know, the feet's a interesting thing.
[474] I just seen the other day, and this is an interesting thing.
[475] argument that always goes on in the internet.
[476] Do you clean your legs and your feet?
[477] Because there's an argument that because you're soaping up the rest of you as you wash it off, the soap just goes over your legs and your feet.
[478] So the feet often get ignored.
[479] I feel I haven't cleaned my feet in years.
[480] Really?
[481] Really scrub them.
[482] They just self -clean.
[483] So then you're walking in places in a yucky foot.
[484] Yeah.
[485] So it is getting dirty.
[486] Just your regular foot is getting stuffed dirty.
[487] You're probably right, actually.
[488] Stay tuned for more flightless bird.
[489] We'll be right.
[490] right back after a word from our sponsors.
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[529] Well, look, I had this etiquette expert in front of me. I couldn't just talk to them about this.
[530] I thought I'd get some other etiquette things out of the way.
[531] So I dive deeper.
[532] I thought it would be ridiculous to have this etiquette coach in front of me and not address a few other issues I've been rubbing up against here in America.
[533] Elaine Swan tells me she works with a whole range of Americans, young and old, from a variety of backgrounds.
[534] I mean, kids can really be rebel rousers at home, but parents really want them to show up at their best when they step outside that door.
[535] And so when we're looking at children and teens, we're definitely focusing on helping them to navigate social situations, assisting them by giving them the tools that they need to communicate effectively.
[536] so that they can navigate throughout the world.
[537] Now when we get into the college age and young adults, now we're starting to look at serving these folks in an area that allows them to have those skills as they're entering into the workplace.
[538] Your parents are no longer there to talk for you.
[539] They're not going to help you along the way.
[540] And so young adults, they have to be able to communicate effectively to share whatever it is, whether it's a like, a dislike, or if they need to communicate something that's pleasant or not, so pleasant.
[541] They need to know how to do this.
[542] She also works with a lot of adults, and something she's worried about in America is the way Americans have learned to do Zoom calls since the pandemic.
[543] One of the things that I see nowadays that tends to be a huge mistake that people are making is their video conferencing.
[544] We were thrown into this whole video conferencing era and not necessarily having any rulebook or what have you, which of course I'm working on that.
[545] So we've got this rule book that we're starting to develop now because people are making mistakes.
[546] They're thinking that just because we are not in person, that somehow we don't necessarily have to show up at our best.
[547] And so you see people doing kind of the high, low, where they're wearing whatever they think is okay, on top and sometimes nothing at all at the bottom.
[548] In addition to that, we're eating, we're drinking, we're doing different things.
[549] We're doing things online that we wouldn't necessarily do in person.
[550] And I think that's a big mistake that people make.
[551] I mean, just think about it.
[552] You wouldn't be in a business meeting and just all of a sudden out of nowhere stand up and walk away from the conference room table in the middle of someone's sentence without excusing yourself.
[553] So why are we doing this online.
[554] I admit I've completely let etiquette out the window on Zoom calls.
[555] I hate Zoom calls.
[556] I find it really hard to sit still long enough to record this podcast, let alone sit staring at a screen for an hour or more.
[557] I walk on Zooms.
[558] I eat on Zooms.
[559] I'm a disaster on Zooms, and Elaine Swan would not be happy.
[560] Next, I turn to something we discussed in episode 16 of flightless bird, tipping.
[561] Karen, 24, I wonder what the basics are and what you give and how you decide.
[562] Turns out it's not as simple as 20 % for everything.
[563] Tipping is not something that's simple that says that you would tip 20 % across the board.
[564] It certainly can vary.
[565] It varies from industry to industry and it also varies depending on the service you receive as well.
[566] Now the word tips comes from the acronym to improve prompt service and there's a whole history behind that.
[567] But when you look at that process or that thought process behind it to improve prompt service, you tip based upon the service you receive.
[568] Now, here in America, you are always expected to tip at restaurants.
[569] And the reason being is because here in America, we do not unfortunately pay our servers a living wage.
[570] They receive their wage based upon the tip.
[571] And so you should always tip.
[572] However, there are some instances where your tip could reflect the service.
[573] So you never want to go to a restaurant and not tip a server at all because that really would kind of equal out to you not paying them for them providing the service for you, even if it was horrible.
[574] Now, you can lower that tip based upon the service, but I always say to make sure that you try to correct the problem first.
[575] Talk with the server.
[576] Talk with the server.
[577] Talk with manager, see if there's something that can be done.
[578] And do not adjust that tip if the bad service had nothing to do with the server.
[579] So if the kitchen didn't prepare your food properly or maybe it took too long to come out, that does not have anything to do with the server.
[580] Now, if the server came and they slammed their food down on the table or they ignored you or they spoke to you very rudely and you think, I didn't receive the level of service that I would expect, let me address the server first.
[581] Let me talk to the manager.
[582] so that this way, if you do decide to go a little bit lower on that tip, the server understands that you weren't just a jerk and stipped them.
[583] Here's the thing.
[584] I would say to do not go any lower than 10 % if you receive bad service at a restaurant.
[585] That would be your absolute lowest.
[586] So 10 % is the lowest.
[587] 15 % is your average tip and 20 % and above says that you received superior service.
[588] With that settled, the 10%, 15%, 20 % spectrum, I turned to planes.
[589] Because I noticed something when I went back to New Zealand last time.
[590] Usually I fly Air New Zealand, but Delta was doing a special price, way cheaper, so I flew Delta.
[591] And I noticed there was just objectively way less room on a Delta seat than an Air New Zealand seat.
[592] And in general, American planes just seem to have a bit less room for your body.
[593] They tend to stack humans in as tightly as possible, to make as much problem.
[594] as possible.
[595] This leads to a problem on American planes, a question of elbow etiquette.
[596] The elbow space and wrist on planes tends to be a dilemma for a lot of folks, and I've got the answer.
[597] The person who is sitting in the middle seat, they should get both of the armrests that are in that row.
[598] Now, etiquette would dictate that you're not supposed to start a fight on an airplane.
[599] So if you find that someone is just not being kind and just not wanting to share that space, then this is where you can do one of two things.
[600] You can speak to the person directly and say, you know, I'd like to be able to put my elbow here, please.
[601] I just want to stretch out a little bit.
[602] If they say, oh my goodness, sure, yes, great.
[603] Then enjoy your flight.
[604] If not, then you have to ask yourself, you know what, do I want to fight with this crazy person and the rest of my flight or not.
[605] Keep in mind, the person next to the window, they have an armrest on their side and the window.
[606] And the person on the aisle, they have an armrests on their side and the luxury of the aisle.
[607] So the person in the middle usually doesn't have as much space.
[608] I certainly have seen people jockey back and forth for that space, but yes, indeed, the person in the middle seat should get both of the armrest.
[609] No doubt with this question of transport in the sky.
[610] I had one final question, a question about transport on the ground.
[611] I've noticed consistently since driving in America that whenever I let another car in front of me, you never get a little wave or a thumbs up.
[612] I would say if you happen to let someone in and they go on about their way, it is certainly polite for them to give a wave, give a nod, give something to say thank you.
[613] I wouldn't say that folks who are not doing that means that it's not an American.
[614] thing, I just think you must be in a rude city where people don't care, and they're so busy with whatever is happening in their lives.
[615] If you go through different cities here in America, you'll find folks who will give you a nice wave, they'll nod their head, something to that effect, but you might be in an area where folks just don't care.
[616] I realized that perhaps this etiquette issue was an L .A. issue, not an American issue.
[617] Next time I'm driving in a different state in Florida or Texas or maybe North Carolina, I'll check to see if I get a wave or not.
[618] I've learned a lot from Elaine in this episode, but the main thing I've learned is that I'm right.
[619] For once, just this once, an American has fully 100 % agreed with me. So you're with me on this.
[620] You know, shoes should come off at the door, right?
[621] That seems sensible.
[622] I believe shoes should certainly come off at the door.
[623] Yes, Elaine Swan.
[624] Legend.
[625] Legend.
[626] How many people did you interview before you got Elaine to agree with you?
[627] She was so down.
[628] Swan School .com.
[629] She was cool.
[630] I liked her.
[631] 20 years in the biz, four books under a belt.
[632] She's the expert.
[633] She's off.
[634] I, yeah, yeah.
[635] I mean, okay.
[636] What do you think about the plane situation?
[637] I agree with that.
[638] Middle aisle, you should get both spaces.
[639] Fully agree.
[640] If you're in the middle, you're in the shittiest seat on the plane.
[641] Horrific.
[642] You get both.
[643] But what about when it's two?
[644] Two what?
[645] Two seats next to each other.
[646] There's not a three seat.
[647] It's a two.
[648] That's most common.
[649] I think it comes down to if whoever puts it first.
[650] Yeah, there's that.
[651] There's that because some people do.
[652] And I'm always the one that I always get defeated in the elbow thing.
[653] I just don't push back enough.
[654] I think it should go on size.
[655] So if someone's physically bigger and they need more.
[656] That is so unfair.
[657] No, there's someone's like, because you're big.
[658] Yeah, you're big.
[659] No, no, no, because I'm big.
[660] And I'm small.
[661] But if like, if you're cut, but like, because you're small, you take up their space.
[662] So you're sitting on that.
[663] It's like you're at Disneyland.
[664] You've got all this room around you sitting in that little seat.
[665] You guys have no idea what it's like to be small.
[666] And also, people being small has nothing to do with having a rest for your arm.
[667] Yeah.
[668] They're not related at all.
[669] You know, this.
[670] is fair.
[671] So how do you decide it?
[672] When you're on a plane, how do you weigh it up?
[673] I also just defer.
[674] I kind of let the other person have it.
[675] And I just crunch.
[676] If I, hopefully I'm on a window and I just crunch into the window.
[677] You're a nice person.
[678] You sort of like, yeah, you just do that thing.
[679] But you can alternate during the flight as well, like Jostle, like they might leave to go to the bathroom and their socks and then, boom, you've got it and like screw them.
[680] They come back with how you're in riddled socks.
[681] That is actually really true.
[682] That's a good time to sort of like establish a new dominance.
[683] Plain etiquette, I mean, it's a whole thing.
[684] What about talking to people on planes, talking to your neighbor?
[685] I have a policy on a plane where I will say a polite hello, so they know I'm not full of hatred for them or something.
[686] So I'll say hello.
[687] And then I, nothing, headphones in, and I make it clear I do not want to be talking during that flight.
[688] Headphones are a game changer for airplane etiquette.
[689] Yeah.
[690] Because it tells the person everything.
[691] As soon as the headphones are in, I'm done.
[692] talking to you.
[693] I'm never talking to you again for the rest of my life.
[694] Because planes for me, they're like a holiday away from everyone.
[695] And I love having that space.
[696] And having a neighbor that's just going to start chatting at random times, maybe I'm being rude, but it's not for me. I just want to have my own space.
[697] It's not for me either.
[698] What about now?
[699] Okay, so this is an interesting thing.
[700] Apartment buildings.
[701] I think I saw a TikTok about this.
[702] What's your policy with neighbors?
[703] You know how you're always bumping into your neighbors?
[704] And there's a general feeling of just like, oh, I just want to get on with my day and not stop and chat.
[705] What's the neighbor situation?
[706] I think me and you are unfortunately on the exact same page here.
[707] Similar with this, right?
[708] Yeah, a bit similar to the plane.
[709] I don't want to talk to anyone.
[710] I really don't.
[711] I wish my apartment was a home where I didn't have to see other people.
[712] Yeah, that's what it is, right?
[713] That's the difference.
[714] Because you go to a house, no one's talking to you.
[715] You have maybe one neighbor that might yell across the fence.
[716] But apartments, because sometimes I feel like I emerged from my apartment like a little goblin.
[717] to maybe like go and do the washing or do something and it's like a gauntlet and I just know the feeling I get sometimes.
[718] I've got one neighbor that's really kind and he listens to this podcast so I'm not talking about him.
[719] We like you.
[720] Like some people you see and you're just like I don't want to talk.
[721] Leave me alone.
[722] But there's no way.
[723] You're crossing them in the hallway and it's this thing.
[724] No, there are ways.
[725] You just nod with like a small way, but you tell people whether or not you're open for conversation in your body language you don't have to glare look I think I've talked about this maybe unsinked but there's a person in my life who used to be in my life on a weekly basis you're right and then many years have gone by right and now he lives in my neighborhood right and he walks a ton and I walk a ton and so I see him all the time And the first time we stopped, we had a whole conversation, yes.
[726] Catch up.
[727] Nice to see you.
[728] Great.
[729] Oh, yeah.
[730] Great to see you.
[731] Great to see you.
[732] Then the next time I think both of us internally thought, we don't need to do that again.
[733] But also, what do we do?
[734] Because we know each other.
[735] And so I think we just, hey, how are it?
[736] Like, it was a little bit quicker of a conversation.
[737] And you're probably both going through a similar internal process.
[738] 100%.
[739] Yes.
[740] And now when I see him, I just put my hand up as a little wave.
[741] That's it.
[742] We're on the same page.
[743] You tell people with your eyes and your body language, you invite that or you don't.
[744] I had a similar but worse version of that at an airport line where I bummed into someone lining up to check bags in and I hadn't seen them in a long time.
[745] Had a great stop and chat.
[746] But then because of the way the line went around.
[747] Oh, no. You can't see you.
[748] You can't see it.
[749] For about, I don't know, like 10 iterations of the line.
[750] And it was like being trapped in the inner circle of hell It was a horrific time I was getting sweats It was like it got so bad And it was just socially horrific Well did you just put headphones in again If you always have headphones on you Yeah you're sorted You're fine Yeah any situation the headphones save you That's the other thing with the walks Normally I have headphones in so It's just easy That whole Apple Vision thing will be even better for that one It just like slap a helmet on your head And just like I'm not even seeing you.
[751] Oh my God.
[752] Yeah, etiquette's a real question.
[753] And I do think it is so different in different countries.
[754] The driving is for sure regional.
[755] Yeah.
[756] And that is very LA.
[757] Yeah.
[758] It's just I always leading people in.
[759] And when I don't get a little wave, I'm like, my internal is like, fuck you.
[760] Yeah.
[761] Well, you have rage in the car.
[762] I do have rage in the car.
[763] Yeah.
[764] One other thing, just because it's a variety of topics that I like, sort of internet etiquette, Hillsong Church has been a bunch of documentaries about it.
[765] Not a great church.
[766] Their old leader, Brian Houston left for a variety of reasons, but he did a great tweet last night.
[767] Okay.
[768] This mildly ties into the whole etiquette issue.
[769] So at 1141 p .m., Brian Houston tweeted, ladies and girls kissing.
[770] So clearly what he had done is he'd gone to search and Google for ladies and girls kissing, but he had accidentally tweeted it.
[771] No, no. Are you sure?
[772] No, no, this happened.
[773] I saw it all unfold.
[774] So 15 minutes later, he deletes the tweet, and he tweets.
[775] I think my Twitter may have been hacked, which is so good because, A, if you were hacked, the hacker isn't going to tweet ladies and girls kissing.
[776] It's also clearly just so funny on so many levels.
[777] And also, if you're hacked, you don't get your account back 15 minutes later.
[778] It's just everything about it's heaven.
[779] But the etiquette, I was just thinking it's really a stretch.
[780] But now just the etiquette of tweeting, accidentally like tweeting.
[781] But who does that?
[782] It occasionally will happen with someone.
[783] They'll tweet something just amazing that is a Google search.
[784] A few politicians in New Zealand have famously done it.
[785] Really?
[786] Searching for themselves.
[787] I think he's actually part of the government now, Winston Peters.
[788] I think he just tweeted something like tweets about Winston Peters or something.
[789] Oh, that's fine.
[790] Okay.
[791] Well, what about texting etiquette?
[792] Texting etiquette.
[793] That's an amazing thing.
[794] What I've done occasionally with texts is I have replied to the wrong person in another the conversation and there's a few times I've done that and I've been like okay I've just sent this person this image that makes no sense nude no just like no like a screenshot or something it makes no sense you've clearly made a mistake but I try and think it really quickly of a text to send them that explains why I sent them this completely off -kilter image you've tried to fake it I fake it I fake it every time but so you're saying oh you're saying you actually send it on purpose no I'll accidentally send something to someone and instead of saying oh I I'm sorry, that was meant for someone else.
[795] I'll come up with an elaborate explanation.
[796] Wait, why would you do that?
[797] I got hacked.
[798] Yeah.
[799] I'll do it because I get embarrassed that I've done it and I don't want them to feel like I wasn't texting them.
[800] Oh, that's so weird, David.
[801] And so I'll come up with a thing of like why I sent them that thing.
[802] And it will be quite a convoluted story.
[803] It's much weirder for me if you send me like, I don't know, there's just a random picture of a bird poo for something.
[804] And then a short essay of why I sent it to you afterwards.
[805] Yeah, I'm going to be so much more weirded out.
[806] I haven't done it to you.
[807] I haven't accidentally texted you yet.
[808] Yeah, I don't remember having experience.
[809] Well, you always wouldn't know because my explanation is so smooth.
[810] But I think I would feel much better if you were like, oops, wasn't for you.
[811] Because then I'd be like, oh, he's in like another weird conversation with somebody.
[812] Yeah, and that's what it often is.
[813] As opposed to your brain is wanting to send me that.
[814] Yeah, no, it's, I'm pretty sure I'll probably think about that.
[815] Yeah.
[816] It is tied in with my not.
[817] wanting to, what is that?
[818] Look like you messed up.
[819] Yeah, kind of.
[820] But then you look weirder.
[821] Well, I think it's a technology thing maybe with you too, where you want to be good at technology or it's part of your identity.
[822] Yeah, and I don't seem to be anept, bumbling idiot on a phone, which I often am.
[823] Me too.
[824] I mean, we're over 30.
[825] We're going to be bumbling a little bit.
[826] That's part of it.
[827] Oh, man. But, okay, more, because I don't know that what you're talking about is etiquette.
[828] I've gone off a different tangent, just my own.
[829] personal weird problems.
[830] Etiquette is more like, what are the rules?
[831] What are the rules for if someone texts you?
[832] How long can you go without texting back?
[833] Like, what's the rule for that?
[834] A nightmare I've had a few times is that I've had red receipts on, not knowing.
[835] So I found out after about five years that I had read receipts with someone and they told me, my perception of the entire last five years changed because I'm like, fuck, all those times I'm like waited.
[836] I haven't seen, they've seen it.
[837] They've just left it.
[838] I think if you're a nice good person in this world and you are texting with someone and they have read receipts on, it is your obligation as a good person to tell them, hey, just so you know, and I'm sure you're doing this on purpose, but just in case you aren't, you have read receipts on.
[839] Yeah, yeah.
[840] You have to tell them.
[841] Yeah.
[842] I mean, my friend told me out to five years, which I would like you were saying too long.
[843] That's not a good friend.
[844] No, I agree.
[845] You do have to tell them.
[846] I think you should reply with me. I'm a quick texter, but generally within two hours, I will text back.
[847] I don't want to leave that hanging.
[848] What if it's something?
[849] That doesn't need to reply.
[850] Right.
[851] That's why I like the thumbs up now.
[852] I've been told the thumbs up is sarcastic recently.
[853] Someone got offended that I've given them thumbs up.
[854] And I'm like, no, that's just, I'm just like, yeah.
[855] They thought you were being sarcastic.
[856] They wanted a love heart instead of a thumbs on.
[857] Oh, my God.
[858] Oh, I don't know.
[859] This is so, this is really, but I'm the type of person.
[860] I do not need a response if I'm not asking for a response.
[861] Like, I do not need that.
[862] In fact, I prefer not another chime or another something for me to then have to look at.
[863] Leave it.
[864] Leave it.
[865] Yeah, Alice can go on and on and on and on.
[866] Yeah.
[867] So my personal views, I think, don't necessarily match because same with email.
[868] I am so uninterested and just, banter or got it thanks like no we don't need to do that I have enough emails yeah no fair I think I'm the opposite I always feel obliged to reply but that's more of an impulsive I need to like say like sign it off and deal with it because that just keeps it going on potentially for a very long time well I think most people are like you which is why I think I can look more callous yeah but really I'm just trying to be efficient I'm just like we don't need to keep yeah yeah Yeah.
[869] Voice memos versus text.
[870] Hate them, hate them, hate them.
[871] You don't like seeing 10, two -minute voice memos?
[872] I get grossed out sometimes by them.
[873] I agree.
[874] I agree.
[875] It's a step too far, and it's a rare occurrence.
[876] I've got some friends I do it because it's kind of funny.
[877] We have done it.
[878] Yours don't gross me out.
[879] I usually do it where this is like something a bit funny to talk about or it's more amusing.
[880] Or if there's something that you have to explain.
[881] Like, that's fine.
[882] Sometimes I do it with Emma.
[883] if I just like really have to explain something and I don't want to, whatever, too hard to text.
[884] Okay, dating and voice memos?
[885] Oh, no. What do you think about that?
[886] It's too much.
[887] I know.
[888] It's too much too soon.
[889] I agree.
[890] No, no, no. I mean, that's thing.
[891] We're living in this time where communication, there's just too much of it on every fucking medium.
[892] There's every imaginable DM on every service.
[893] And there's emails and there's text and there's voice memos and there's face times.
[894] And now we've got vision.
[895] And they're in your fucking, you know, 3D in front of you.
[896] It's like, it's a big, you know.
[897] It's complex.
[898] It's complex.
[899] We could do a part too.
[900] But we've learned it's complex.
[901] We've learned that shoes should come off indoors.
[902] Your shoes, Monica, you started this episode with your shoes on.
[903] They're now off.
[904] And how do those little tutsies feel?
[905] They feel free and good.
[906] I want to put my shoes.
[907] Does it feel airy and light?
[908] No, they feel.
[909] Look, I'm itching.
[910] You're itching.
[911] They're scratchy.
[912] Oh, God.
[913] You're going to seal them back in those.
[914] shoes again.
[915] Yeah.
[916] All right.
[917] If I come over, I will take my shoes off and I expect a brand new pair of socks.
[918] A brand new pair of socks.
[919] What size socks to you?
[920] Definitely if it's those extra small.
[921] Extra small socks.
[922] I wear a five and a half shoe.
[923] That's a small foot.
[924] Okay.
[925] I'll get you a little pair of socks and one of those little fishnets as well in case you in case you don't want to take them off.
[926] So you can like be clumped.
[927] It sounds like fishnet stockings or something.
[928] Like you wanted me to dress up like some sort of S &M or something.
[929] It's weird a way when you come.
[930] come over.
[931] It's like, well, I went to David's house, so I didn't like it.
[932] It was quite weird.
[933] It didn't have a good time.
[934] I'm not coming back.
[935] He said the ghost wants me to wear these fishnets.
[936] Changed into a skirt.
[937] Yeah, good.
[938] Oh, boy.
[939] All right.
[940] That was fun.
[941] Oh, just really quickly, you mentioned and I'm at charm school.
[942] Yes.
[943] Which I didn't know about.
[944] So that's the thing.
[945] You mentioned something else.
[946] I want you to do an episode on debutante balls.
[947] What the hell is a debutante ball?
[948] Okay.
[949] A debitant ball, it often happens in the south.
[950] Sometimes in the Midwest, too.
[951] It's girls becoming women sort of.
[952] Right.
[953] So like they're at school or it's the end of school?
[954] Well, no, it's not related to school.
[955] It's completely separate from school.
[956] And I think they do like go to etiquette classes and it's kind of like their graduation from being, I think, a girl into a woman.
[957] But it's a whole ball.
[958] Dancing and a dinner.
[959] Dancing, fancy dresses.
[960] And they're all, the shoes are on.
[961] I mentioned.
[962] The shoes are on.
[963] People who are debutants.
[964] It's a vibe.
[965] It's a southern vibe.
[966] I think Elizabeth of Elizabeth and Andy, she was a debutante.
[967] Also, I could go to one of these balls and kind of see what the...
[968] I think you have to be invited.
[969] It's like a wedding.
[970] It's like a wedding.
[971] Young women, so maybe you shouldn't just show up.
[972] Yeah, that would be weird.
[973] Yes, but I get invited by someone.
[974] I could go along to the thing.
[975] I've been invited to two weddings off flight this bird.
[976] Come along to see how an American wedding is.
[977] But the timing was way out.
[978] And also, like, I was like, I don't know what this is.
[979] I don't really want to go to someone.
[980] I don't know.
[981] I wonder what the difference is between American weddings.
[982] And I mean, obviously, Indian weddings are very specific.
[983] Oh, my God, I can't wait to do an Indian wedding.
[984] So, so specific.
[985] But I think American weddings would just be probably through some, but maybe just like a bit bigger and maybe a bit more pomp and ceremony maybe.
[986] But I mean, they're probably the same.
[987] Well, compared to New Zealand, maybe.
[988] But again, New Zealand, it wants everything to be so small.
[989] Also, I didn't want to go to a wedding and be like the only one that, like, I wouldn't know anyone there.
[990] Talk about etiquette.
[991] There's so much wedding etiquette.
[992] Like, you can't bring a plus one unless you've been invited to bring a plus one.
[993] I can't deal with weddings.
[994] I do not like going to weddings.
[995] It's a whole...
[996] I love weddings.
[997] It's too much.
[998] They're too long.
[999] What about the romance?
[1000] No. I get very...
[1001] What about the love?
[1002] Cynical.
[1003] I get very...
[1004] You do?
[1005] I don't like weddings.
[1006] You get grumpy?
[1007] I get grumpy.
[1008] David.
[1009] Yeah, you're sat next to people.
[1010] There's a dancing at the end of the night.
[1011] It's like...
[1012] Weddings are another thing.
[1013] We'll come back to that.
[1014] They are, and I want you to do an episode on them, because if I think you might, if you get a little bit bit by the love bug, then you will become more American.
[1015] Oh, yeah, that is a part of it, isn't it?
[1016] It's the whole, like, Disney warm sort of thing.
[1017] Okay, let's wrap this up.
[1018] Wait, did you have a manners class in, like, grade school?
[1019] No. We had to do that where it was like.
[1020] So you went to, you also went to, like, a debutante.
[1021] No, it wasn't a debutante.
[1022] It was like, third.
[1023] Third or fourth grade And you got paired up With someone opposite gender Right And had to like go to a dinner No Yeah Wait What's this nice?
[1024] I go to a dinner And they taught you How to cut with a fork and knife And pulled the chair out And all the etiquette And I got paired with A girl that had like a crush on me That I couldn't stand And then a foreign exchange boy We were a group of three For some ways What a cute little group What a cute little dinner?
[1025] Wait Who takes you guys of these dinner.
[1026] This feels shady.
[1027] This was grade school.
[1028] This was like third grade.
[1029] You're out.
[1030] You leave to school?
[1031] Yeah, the teacher.
[1032] It was like a field trip.
[1033] Wasn't the other students?
[1034] Just you three.
[1035] It was all the class.
[1036] I think we're learning maybe you got groomed.
[1037] Maybe.
[1038] Oh my God.
[1039] That's amazing.
[1040] So that is like this whole etiquette.
[1041] It's really built in.
[1042] I mean, I was just amazed that like Elaine had the Swan School for 20, I should know it for 20 years.
[1043] It's incredible.
[1044] I mean, I wouldn't have minded.
[1045] how to learn about all the where the forks.
[1046] There's so many forks and knives.
[1047] Yeah, different.
[1048] You don't know what you're still doing for one.
[1049] Yeah.
[1050] Plates.
[1051] I'm going to go see Ms. Swan.
[1052] She was great.
[1053] Great laugh as well.
[1054] All right.
[1055] All right.
[1056] Well, we've all learned about etiquette.
[1057] We're all a bit more, slightly more American.
[1058] We're more posh.
[1059] We're more posh.
[1060] Yeah.
[1061] What was that word that you pronounced?
[1062] What did I say?
[1063] Chao.
[1064] Cha.
[1065] Chah.
[1066] Okay.
[1067] Bye.