Jon Bon Jovi

[0] Welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dak Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Minuture Mouse.

[3] Squeak, squeak, squeak, squeak.

[4] So stupid.

[5] Are you ready?

[6] Yeah.

[7] I'm a cowboy on this steel horse I ride, and I'm wanted, wanted, dead or a lie.

[8] Wow.

[9] I've seen a million faces, and I rocked them all.

[10] That's right.

[11] John Bon Jovi's here I cannot believe it Oh John Bon Jovi's here I grew up listening to JBJ fantasizing in my bedroom Oh what a day for you And his buns Best Buns in the Biss We talked about nearly everything with him And the only thing I regret Is I didn't ask him what his bun routine was I'll have to have him back on for that Okay just for that like a five minute interview Now as you guys know John Bon Jovi is an American singer -songwriter Record producer philanthropist and actor Bon Jovi is best known as the founder and frontman of the Grammy Award winning rock band Bon Jovi.

[12] John has released 15 studio albums with his band to date and has sold over 130 million albums worldwide.

[13] He has a new album out right now called 2020.

[14] I think everyone could remember that title quite easily.

[15] Please enjoy John Bon Jovi.

[16] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[17] Now, join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[18] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[19] Holy shit, dude.

[20] Wow.

[21] In the, well, not in the flesh, pretty much.

[22] I got to tell you, we interview a lot of people.

[23] This is very, very exciting.

[24] First of all, you're fucking gorgeous.

[25] My goodness, look at this face.

[26] It's fucking insane.

[27] I'm glad you guys.

[28] have been drinking.

[29] It's early.

[30] Doesn't he kind of look like Matt Damon, like I said?

[31] Yeah.

[32] So Monica's main crushes in life are Matt Damon and Ben Affleck and you.

[33] And she thinks there's some blend, some carryover with you and Damon.

[34] I see it a little bit.

[35] Okay.

[36] I don't mind that.

[37] You know, I remember when people had asked me, like, who should play you in the movie?

[38] I'd say Angelina Jolie.

[39] You know, I don't know who does the duck better me or her, but you know, but you got Damon going there.

[40] So that's all right.

[41] Yeah.

[42] Yeah.

[43] Well, you're in really high company, I'd say.

[44] I mean, Ben Affleck.

[45] Yeah.

[46] You know what's interesting is you've been at it for so long, but you started so young that it's in my mind, and I know in Monica's as well, it's a little deceptive.

[47] Like, I got to say, I was like, oh, he's only 58.

[48] You've just been doing it for 30 years, but also you're still young.

[49] It's kind of, you know what I'm saying?

[50] I do.

[51] I had a record deal when I was 21.

[52] It's the same record deal.

[53] No kidding.

[54] Yeah, I've been with the same label since I'm 21 years old.

[55] And yeah, I mean, it's crazy to think that I've been doing this longer than I wasn't doing this, you know?

[56] Yeah.

[57] That's a weird moment, isn't it?

[58] You know, when you're making records, what is it, 37 years now?

[59] That's a long, long time.

[60] With the same label, it's amazing.

[61] I'm going to ask you a really gross question.

[62] I want you to be honest about.

[63] So I am around 100 ,000, as famous as you, but nevertheless, I'm a little bit famous.

[64] And it's now been about, I think, 17 years of it.

[65] And this is so gross to admit to you, but I'm going to say it.

[66] When I look back in my life, I think I've always been famous.

[67] Is that the grossest thing you ever heard?

[68] It's like, I actually don't remember not, even though it's only been, yes.

[69] Well, I remember, I remember not being famous.

[70] But I think that the one thing, well, you know, when you're so young, your scale of what famous is also was much different.

[71] Oh, big time, big time.

[72] So you thought you were big if you were playing in a bar.

[73] You know, you were big at the high school dance.

[74] So your levels of what famous is change.

[75] Every step along the way, I remember playing in a bar because you were playing your own music.

[76] And this is in 1980.

[77] I'm just graduating.

[78] high school.

[79] So in my eyes, we were already big because we were playing where the original bands played.

[80] I didn't go to my prom.

[81] I was opening for Southside Johnny somewhere in Freehold, New Jersey.

[82] So I thought that was big.

[83] Every step along the way, you still couldn't pay the bills, but you thought that was big, you know?

[84] Yeah.

[85] And then, you know, you keep going until you get to a place where you could finally say, well, I guess, you know, now I sort of made it.

[86] But you didn't really make get the other 18 steps along the way.

[87] You just thought you did.

[88] Well, is it that the ignorance is the gift.

[89] So yes.

[90] So when I look back in my memory and I think of how famous I thought I was from that TV show, it allowed me to walk in and audition for a movie like, you better believe you're going to give me this.

[91] I'm the most famous guy in America.

[92] Exactly.

[93] You know, it's that kind of, I wish, you know, I wish we still all had those stones, you know.

[94] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[95] Now I just have doubt.

[96] Now I'm like, I don't know.

[97] I don't know if I can act anymore.

[98] I don't know if I'm anything.

[99] Now you're full of doubt.

[100] Yeah.

[101] Now you're like, oh, I don't think I can do it.

[102] I don't think I can handle it anymore.

[103] Yeah, when you're young, you're bulletproof and your sense of will is so big.

[104] I can just will this to happen.

[105] And I think it will.

[106] You know, it's crazy.

[107] Now, growing up in New Jersey, first of all, I love you on Stern.

[108] You're always the greatest interview.

[109] I think it's adorable.

[110] You guys are so close.

[111] And I loved hearing him bitch about inducting, you into the Hall of Fame for six months leading up to it.

[112] It was like every, every episode, he lamented that.

[113] When you would hear that would make you laugh or did you start feeling guilty?

[114] A little of both, because I do know him so well.

[115] If you know him, you know that the guy that's off mic is completely different than the one on the mic.

[116] And the backstory is, and I'm sure you've heard it, but it is true.

[117] When I called him on the phone and I said, I have to come over to your house to see you today, you know, at first he thinks, are you okay?

[118] And then it was like, you're not coming to my house.

[119] And I'm like, well, I am coming to your house.

[120] So when are you going to get there?

[121] Long story short, we finally negotiated the deal.

[122] And he said, you have to meet me at this location and be in the backseat of my car.

[123] Because when I come out, I'm going to tell the driver to keep rolling.

[124] So this was like a mob meeting.

[125] You know, he's got his driver in a car.

[126] I got a driver in a car.

[127] I tell his driver to get out at a car.

[128] And there's no R in that.

[129] They go, get out of the car.

[130] And I get in the car.

[131] And then he comes in the backseat.

[132] This is real.

[133] This happened in the backseat.

[134] Everything I'm telling you.

[135] And he closes the door in the backseat of his car.

[136] And I tell him what it's all about.

[137] And I says, and honest to God, you're my first and only choice.

[138] And he said, I've been asked a whole lot of times by a whole lot of people, but you're the only one I can't turn down.

[139] I'm in.

[140] I said, thank you very much.

[141] It was an emotional little moment.

[142] I got out of the car to leave.

[143] And I went home and I called my manager.

[144] And if you know anything in the music business, Irving Azov, you know, that name is.

[145] I don't.

[146] He's a legendary, legendary manager.

[147] And he says, he said, yes, no problem.

[148] He says, he said, absolutely yes.

[149] He goes, did you tell him it's in Cleveland?

[150] I go, no. No. I said, that's what I pay you for.

[151] And I think that's where the rubber met the road in this whole thing.

[152] It's like, what's that it started occurring to him that he was going to be flying to Cleveland that he had a sleep in a hotel in Cleveland.

[153] It scarred him.

[154] I told him, I said, Howard, you don't got to bring a passport to come to Cleveland.

[155] Right.

[156] There's no immigration line you'll stand in for hours.

[157] Now, could this be true?

[158] Because I only read Wikipedia.

[159] I have two little kids.

[160] I only have so much time.

[161] But is it possible that your mother was actually a Marine and a Playboy Bunny?

[162] Is that hypocrophal or is that real?

[163] No, it's true.

[164] It's true.

[165] No kidding.

[166] Yeah, my folks.

[167] met in the Marine Corps.

[168] Yeah, yeah.

[169] She was like right out of the poster, you know, the whole, I Want You.

[170] And then when the club opened in New York, she was one of the very first bunnies.

[171] Yeah.

[172] Like a cocktail waitress.

[173] Cocktail waitress.

[174] Not the magazines, but cocktail waitress in the era of Sinatra and the whole thing, early 60s.

[175] So she was married to my dad.

[176] I was born.

[177] And she was working there.

[178] Yeah.

[179] And so, yeah, she must have nightly come home and told your dad.

[180] like, oh, my God, Sinatra did this and Dean Martin did that.

[181] Yeah, I'm sure the stories were much better than I'd ever heard.

[182] But, you know, in truth, you know, you see those pictures.

[183] And I might be a rock and roll star, but I got a feeling that the entire 60s parenting experience was much different than mine or yours.

[184] Oh, there's an article I reference all the time that was in the New York Times where they actually broke down how much time, 50s, 60s housewife spent with the children.

[185] children.

[186] And today's working mother is spending more time with her kids than a housewife of the 50s and 60s.

[187] So that just gives you a sense of like what kind of supervision we had, which was absent.

[188] You know, the parental line was come home when the streetlights go on.

[189] And, you know, chances of, I don't know about your dad, but mine ever coming to a game that I was playing and forget that.

[190] You know, they drove with a six pack on the front seat while they were driving.

[191] They're smoking and drinking in those big cars that could have fit eight people at any time, you know, the big front seat, the big backseat.

[192] And you know, there's a whole different time.

[193] What memories?

[194] We're here.

[195] We're here.

[196] And we are here.

[197] That is the one good thing.

[198] Yeah.

[199] Yeah.

[200] Now, what kind of kid were you in junior high?

[201] Because your music starts around 13, I guess.

[202] So that's junior high.

[203] Were you popular?

[204] Were you likable?

[205] Were you athletic?

[206] Were you always is this fucking good -looking?

[207] No. When I was 13 -ish, that's when you really just put down the broomstick and tried to learn to play.

[208] But by the time I could even pretend to play, it was more like 16.

[209] And I'd have a little backyard band and play at the block dance and the dance, the high school.

[210] Wildly popular, no, because there was a very small click of kids who played music and not athletic, because by the time he picked up a guitar, I was done with athletics.

[211] Like I'd played up until, you know, 13, 14, and then you found music, and then that was the end of that.

[212] So my idea of going to high school was just begged to get out.

[213] I knew I had another path even then.

[214] My three best buddies joined the Navy, and I got the call, and I busted the guy's balls on the phone.

[215] I said, does the uniform come in any different colors?

[216] Can I get a straight leg pan?

[217] You know, and there was no way I was interested in going to the service, but the only way out for my three pals in this wonderful little, you know, blue collar town that we lived in was to join.

[218] But even at that early age, I knew what I was going to do.

[219] Yeah.

[220] The people I knew friends of mine growing up who got really good at guitar, it's a lot of time in your bedroom by yourself.

[221] So to me, there was always a really high parallel with dudes that were probably inclined just towards depression and that they felt safe in that room and they would prefer to put in that time in that room by themselves.

[222] Have you seen that parallel at all?

[223] I didn't know that I had that.

[224] I wasn't afraid of going out and messing up in the backyard and screaming into a microphone.

[225] Yeah, I think I gravitated towards singing more because, A, no one else wanted to do it.

[226] And B, I knew everybody else was becoming a better guitar player than I was.

[227] So I was always the second to third guy, you know, to be playing the guitar as well as they were.

[228] But interesting, as my youngest son is starting to play, and he goes to the damn thing five times a day and would rather sit in his room than go out and just BS with his buddies.

[229] So I don't know that it's depression as much as it's just like, I've found a new key to the universe, and I know what it can do.

[230] You know, that's the thing.

[231] It's not depression as much as once in a while you think of that thing as the Harry Potter's wand, you know?

[232] Yeah.

[233] I don't know.

[234] For me, pursuing something creative and other, friends of mine who are creative it also is a kind of great sense of control if you have very little control as a young person and you can master something and you can do something other people can't you can make this thing have a predictable outcome there is some comfort in that it's like a way to grab a bit of control and execute there's something rewarding i think about that when you're younger well it certainly gave me focus you know i i could tell you that it's 16 17 18 walk in every day to high school with the bass player in the band and i knew what i was going to do we're going to go down to asbury park i'm going to play in this bar we're going to go here and i'm going to rehearse this band like crazy and this is you know how i'm going to grow but by the time i was 18 i stopped playing other people's music at 18 already i saw there was only one road and that was if you didn't start writing your own or at least being in an original band the cover band circuit wasn't the future So even by 18, I was done.

[235] I knew what it would happen.

[236] Who played a role at that point, inspiration -wise?

[237] There was a neighbor, a man across the street, young, hip guy, you know, much older than me and me, but younger than my parents, married, younger kids.

[238] And he played in a lounge band.

[239] He played, you know, weddings and lounges.

[240] So I went over there having met him through my mom, he was willing to teach me a couple of chords on the guitar and the first time he tried to show me it's not easy you know and i'm at home and i didn't practice i didn't practice enough so i went back a second week i said yeah yeah show me again i'm working hard at it and he shows me again and then i come back and i don't practice and i show up the third time and he curses me out he says don't waste my fucking time he says you know if you're going to do this you're going to do it and if you're not going to do it just don't waste my time see you later and the lesson was over probably the greatest thing that ever happened because Because now I was scared stiff, and I wanted to do it.

[241] And so when I came back to fourth week, I started to develop those calluses, and I tried really hard to learn how to play the House of the Rising Sun, and we chipped away at the stone.

[242] So the guy, his name was Al Parano, and he passed away.

[243] Up in that moment in time, he took on the other kid across the street from him and a little kid from down the block who was a couple years younger.

[244] That younger kid was a kid named Snake Sabo from a band called, skid row no fucking way and so he took me and snake and we both made records and the third kid went and became a lawyer and you know got his life together but he took two kids who didn't have anything else to do and you know we both ended up making records now you're incredibly charitable and we're going to get into all that you're really philanthropic i mean is it things like that where you go like oh shit i guess i too wouldn't be here without this generous stranger Absolutely.

[245] You know, thank God that Al Paranoa, you know, lived next door.

[246] And he's passed now 25 years ago.

[247] We used to have this very, we still do.

[248] If you tour with the band and you do two consecutive world tours, you don't miss any legs of it.

[249] So it's very hard to get one.

[250] You get what is, in essence, our Elvis TCB.

[251] And it's a little Superman logo made of diamonds.

[252] It's only this big.

[253] And it has the slippery and wet logo on it.

[254] And I made them back.

[255] and the slippery album for the closest band party.

[256] Anyhow, when Al passed, mine went in the coffin.

[257] Oh, man. These things are, you know, very special to the very few people who get them.

[258] In the organization, they never changed, you know, they could have been all big bling by now, but they're this little thing.

[259] He was that important in my life.

[260] How many have you given out of those, you know?

[261] Yeah, about 120 in the last, 130, maybe in 35, five years.

[262] So there are 120 people who have been with you around the world twice and never showed up sick.

[263] Right.

[264] It's a big deal in our little world to earn one.

[265] This is already getting at what I'm curious about, which is the sustainability of your thing.

[266] I'm so interested when Howard interviews musicians because there's so many predictable pitfalls, right?

[267] I mean, there's so many people succumb to the exact same stuff.

[268] And it's like it's ego and identity and youth.

[269] and all this stuff.

[270] And something is silly and could seem insignificant as that.

[271] It's just a statement, which is like, yeah, we're rock stars.

[272] But you fucking punch your time clock.

[273] You're dependable.

[274] You show up.

[275] There's an element to it that I just dig.

[276] You know, I'm sure there's a million little things you did along the way that created the sustainability.

[277] Oh, yeah.

[278] Look, there's always another guy that's right outside that door waiting for your job, as you knew, acting or singing or doing podcasts.

[279] No matter what it is, there's always another guy that.

[280] it's hungrier or going to outwork you.

[281] So in order to achieve success, you could get there and have one record or one movie.

[282] You can get lucky.

[283] When you start sticking around after 20 years, then I'm going to pay attention.

[284] When you're here for nearly 40, then you've got my respect and attention.

[285] You know, so this is not an easy job.

[286] No. It's not easy.

[287] Let me back up.

[288] I love Wanted.

[289] My favorite line of the song is I've seen a million faces and I rocked them all.

[290] it's the only brag i've ever fucking love because what a gift to rock someone is you should say it man i love it i love it i love it okay what we experience i know zero percent level is we perform for about five thousand people we do live shows it's so exhilarating and then you leave and you go to this hotel room and you're like wait i was awesome a second ago and now i'm alone and it is a very interesting thing to navigate.

[291] And I just wonder for you is like you being like in Tokyo, I imagine at some arena.

[292] And there just isn't going to be a high that competes with that.

[293] And then you're back in the hotel room.

[294] And I just wonder like, what strategies did you develop over the years to manage that?

[295] I think a part of it was just what you said, that challenge of the roar of the crowd, the ringing still in your ears.

[296] You do a runner.

[297] So you get in the car sweating.

[298] You get back to the hotel.

[299] And then it's just like, you and the ring.

[300] ringing.

[301] So what are you supposed to do?

[302] You know, you're not going to pace around your room for three or four more hours.

[303] You had to find things to calm yourself down.

[304] So whether we would go to the bar or what have you, we would do that for many years.

[305] But as I got older, to be honest with you, as hard as I work, it became harder to keep the physicality.

[306] Oh, like your voice, keeping it in shape and all that.

[307] Yeah, just lasting.

[308] So would you go on like vocal rest on tour as you got older and stuff?

[309] I never understood vocal rest.

[310] I think he got us, I personally believe in using it, but warming up, warming down, not drinking, you know, those kinds of things.

[311] Because it is a muscle at the end of the day.

[312] Up until 50, I was bulletproof.

[313] After 50, it became hard work.

[314] Uh -huh.

[315] Okay, you're going to give us advice whether you want to or not.

[316] It's going to happen.

[317] Two things.

[318] In addition to just the impressiveness of the longevity, of the actual band, how did you not get into trouble, public?

[319] at any point that I'm aware of with women or drugs.

[320] How does one do that in your occupation?

[321] Why are you different?

[322] What is it?

[323] I didn't get caught.

[324] That's a brilliant honest answer.

[325] That's the most honest answer I've never heard.

[326] I was never a fan of drugs.

[327] So fortunately for me, that was never appealing.

[328] I think I had a bad experience smoking weed at like 13 or so, and it just scared me off of drugs.

[329] Thank God.

[330] So I never went down that road and when my guys did and I watched what it did to lives like theirs or guys around me, it was pretty much an easy decision to make.

[331] I never hated myself enough to keep doing that.

[332] Yeah.

[333] Okay.

[334] Because he's from New Jersey and I'm sure you must love him.

[335] Like what was Springsteen's relevance in your life, if any, during all this time?

[336] Because he has just now made like a perfect album and he's done all these other things and he's from New Jersey.

[337] Was he somebody that you admired?

[338] Of course.

[339] Sure.

[340] Beyond words.

[341] I was just with him Sunday.

[342] Oh, no shit.

[343] Yeah, we get together and play each other our new records and stuff, you know.

[344] He's Bruce.

[345] You know, everybody knows it.

[346] He's the man. First time I met him was while he was in that difficulty between born to run and darkness on the edge of town.

[347] And I was a little kid.

[348] I was playing in a bar.

[349] And he was in the back of this bar, which was connected to, an athletic club.

[350] So I couldn't have been but 17 years old.

[351] And there's pictures then short time after that, but right in the same era.

[352] He jumps up on stage with me and I'm still in high school.

[353] No. What?

[354] Oh, wait, listen, I don't know that there's any connection between you two.

[355] I'm just thinking you're both from New Jersey and I can't believe that that's.

[356] Wow.

[357] Wow.

[358] So the first time that I got to play with him and jumped up and sang and there's a picture and I'm still in high school.

[359] So imagine me I'm going back to high school the next day, and kids are like, you know, last night I had a six -pack, and I was parked in the back of the mud pits over here and making out with Jane and what you do.

[360] Yeah, me and Bruce Springsteen were down to the, you know, Asbury Park playing.

[361] But that's what I'm saying.

[362] By the time I was in high school, Southside Johnny was producing demos of a band that I was in called The Rest, and there was always a chance you'd be meeting one of the Jukes or one of the East Street band around because there were so many of them, and there were so few bars down there that were playing original music.

[363] So it made the impossible seem very possible.

[364] You know, because on my walls would be the posters of Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith and Skinnerd and the Queen and all that kind of circus magazine.

[365] Yeah.

[366] But those guys were 25 miles away, a decade plus older than you, making records.

[367] and so it made them seem like, you know, the impossible were real.

[368] Yeah.

[369] You had to see someone in 3D that you look up to and recognize, oh, real dude, I'm a real dude.

[370] And they're writing songs about the places where you live and the things that you do.

[371] All of it made it very real.

[372] And so my parents, God bless them.

[373] You know, like I said, 16, 17, 18, they would say, if you were in a, bar at least we knew where you were right right and the drinking age was 18 so that too helped immensely because you know you could sneak in at 1617 and say yeah I'm 18 and if you remember IDs didn't have pictures on them right it's like a piece of paper right someone typed someone typed it up on a piece of paper yeah you can just easily put slide it right in your typewriter and change exactly what you did how about billy Joel is he in the stew no billy was out here on long island and when you're from new jersey you think you need a passport to go to long island we never knew long island really no no because you'd have to come through manhattan to go out to the island the shadow of the city was foreboding enough when i was on a homegrown record of a radio station out of new york city twisted sister was on this homegrown talent record a band called zebra who got signed to atlantic records but i had written runaway and And that was like the hit song on this homegrown record.

[374] But we'd never, the two things never met.

[375] I never knew any of those people.

[376] But musically, did you like?

[377] Billy, sure.

[378] Absolutely.

[379] Billy Joel was huge by that point.

[380] And kind of the Jay -Z of New York at that point, right?

[381] He was writing all about New York.

[382] Yeah, he was New York's guy.

[383] Remember, I was much younger.

[384] But Billy was Long Island, Bruce was New Jersey.

[385] Like Bruce was New Jersey and Bob Seeger was Detroit.

[386] Oh, you don't have to tell me, girl, I'm from fucking.

[387] Detroit.

[388] Oh, there you go.

[389] Seegers.

[390] God.

[391] So if when you grew up, you would have picked Bob over Bruce.

[392] Well, my father, he felt like Billy Joel was his soulmate.

[393] Ah, Billy.

[394] So my whole childhood, when Billy would have, would go to rehab, my dad would go to rehab.

[395] He thought he was the Billy Joel of Detroit.

[396] So Billy for me, yeah, holds a real, every weekend I was at his house.

[397] It was the stranger on the fucking phonograph, pop it on.

[398] You know what's weird for me now, like if somebody will say, I'm a Billy guy, why can't you like Bruce too, you know?

[399] Or people come up to me, go, I only like Bruce.

[400] I go, well, what did I do?

[401] Like, it's not exclusive.

[402] You can like Bruce and Billy and me and Bob and Tom Petty and go down the line.

[403] People get like, so I'm in this camp or that camp.

[404] You go, why?

[405] They're tribal, right?

[406] I find it particularly weird.

[407] I'm super into cars and motorcycles.

[408] So I'll, like, post something about a car I love.

[409] I'll go, fuck that.

[410] Chevy.

[411] It's like, no, no. There's about 80 ,000 awesome cars.

[412] No one has to pick.

[413] This isn't a tribe.

[414] Like, I like Ducati's.

[415] I also like Harleys.

[416] I just happen to emotionally connect with the Dukadi.

[417] I don't know.

[418] Yeah, amen.

[419] Are you open about, did you just have surgery or something?

[420] Yesterday.

[421] Yesterday.

[422] And what was it for?

[423] Because I think you ride motorcycles, right?

[424] yeah but not like you young man oh okay no i haven't ridden any of my bikes in many years i sort of gave it up but not for any other reason i just with four kids i stopped thanks not even with you know i'm sorry i hope you're accident you're recovering you're feeling all right yeah i had 16 years of sobriety and the pills got the best of me and then i had to come out about the pills so we're dealing with that over here but we're coming out the other side and uh we're just going to buck and start over is what we're going to do.

[425] That's all right.

[426] That's a good thing.

[427] That's a good thing.

[428] Yeah, that was, so my surgery, the surgery was fine.

[429] It was the pills that weren't so great.

[430] Oh, wow.

[431] Sorry about that.

[432] No, not to put that on your lap, but I'm just going to be dead honest with you.

[433] Thank you.

[434] Mine was, we started a food bank over this COVID.

[435] You know, we have these community restaurants and then the need out on Long Island was for ultimately a food bank.

[436] And so we provided the food to seven pantries over the summer.

[437] So you can imagine the scale of it.

[438] And my wife and I and a couple of people that we could let in were the ones unloading these tractor trailers and then loading these trucks to give the food to the pantries.

[439] At first, I thought I was being cute and saying, hey, this is my workout until I realized my stomach really hurts.

[440] My stomach really hurts.

[441] My stomach really hurts.

[442] And I tore the belly button pretty bad to the point where...

[443] Oh, so you got a hernia?

[444] Oh, yeah, I got a legit hernia.

[445] And so I tore it pretty bad.

[446] And I can't sing right now.

[447] I can't work out.

[448] I can't do fuck all.

[449] Isn't it fucking depressing?

[450] It's so bad.

[451] For me, it's the exercise.

[452] Like, I could care less about the initial pain and the surgery.

[453] It's like, I just can't not work out for a month.

[454] Mentally, I'll just unravel.

[455] Well, I'm in day two.

[456] And I can't sing and I couldn't shower.

[457] And I'm like, this is not going to be fun.

[458] You look fantastic.

[459] No one would ever know you're 12 hours out of surgery, I'll tell you that.

[460] Yeah.

[461] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[462] We've all been there.

[463] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[464] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[465] But for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[466] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[467] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Bollin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[468] It's called Mr. Bollin's Medical Mysteries.

[469] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[470] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[471] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[472] What's up, guys?

[473] This is your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[474] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[475] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[476] Okay, every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[477] And I don't mean just friends.

[478] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[479] The list goes on.

[480] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[481] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[482] Okay, I want to talk about the John Bon Jovi Soul Foundation.

[483] Yeah.

[484] Well, let me back up.

[485] First, I read about you 130 million albums.

[486] And I go, that's bonkers.

[487] That can't even happen ever again.

[488] Good for you that you did it exactly when you did.

[489] Yeah.

[490] You perform for over 40 million fans in 50 countries.

[491] That's bonkers, right?

[492] But then I start reading about the John Bon Jovi Soul Foundation.

[493] It's like...

[494] Equally insane stuff.

[495] You guys, since 2006, have provided 700 units of affordable housing in 11 different states.

[496] You've built 77 homes and gave them to previously homeless veterans, right, in some partnership with Walter Reed.

[497] Yeah.

[498] And then nine years ago, you opened up the Soul Kitchen in Red Bank, and then a second one in Tom's River.

[499] And you've served over 100 ,000 meals.

[500] I want to know what's driving you.

[501] one of those numbers, you could be like, I'm good, 130 million, 40 million, I'm done.

[502] It's time for me to be done.

[503] I fed 100 ,000 people.

[504] I've put however many families and houses.

[505] What's in the furnace?

[506] What keeps you so engaged?

[507] I think it's a bit of it as Catholic guilt, to be honest.

[508] There we go.

[509] But a part of it is just because we know how, so we do.

[510] When I started the foundation, I had a partner in an arena football team many, many years ago.

[511] And I loved it.

[512] It was fun.

[513] And I thought, with my marketing hat on, how do I ingratiate myself to the community?

[514] And I said, be more philanthropic than anybody.

[515] And so we took some money out of our pockets, my partner, Craig, and I. And we gave it to a bunch of charities.

[516] And then I found focus one night when I was in this hotel.

[517] And I was looking down at a man sleeping on a grate to keep warm outside of City Hall.

[518] And I said, there's the focus.

[519] It's homelessness.

[520] and I asked my best friend Obie to find me someone in Philadelphia who could teach me about the issue.

[521] Little did I know that the Michael Jordan of the issue is a nun by the name of Sister Mary Scullion.

[522] Everybody knows Sister Mary that's in this area.

[523] So he goes to meet Sister Mary on my behalf and says, I work for John Bon Jovi.

[524] She goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[525] He says, no, for real, he wants to come and talk to you.

[526] I got to pause for one second.

[527] The notion that a nun knows you, that's like, that's where it's like okay yeah everyone knows me a nun knows a nun she wasn't she wasn't impressed but she knew the but she knew yeah yeah and so i went down to meet sister mary and why we hit it off was and i said i'm not being a wise ass sister mary but what would it cost to refurbish this block not just the one row home that you're pitching me on the point is if we do a block we could do a neighborhood if we do a neighborhood we could change some lives so her and i hit it off some 15 years of ago.

[528] And we've been closest can be ever since.

[529] And she's now on our board and we started this foundation.

[530] And out of that, building houses with her, the economic downturn happened.

[531] And it was Dorothea who said to me, now we've got to feed the people in the houses.

[532] And she, stream of consciousness, developed this idea of a restaurant that just didn't exist anywhere.

[533] And the idea was empowering people, not a soup kitchen.

[534] So don't think like that.

[535] It's a beautiful beast with silverware and China and a menu and gorgeous food on the menu, but there's no prices.

[536] So if you guys came and wanted to affect change directly, you leave 20 bucks.

[537] It pays for your meal.

[538] It pays for someone who's next to you.

[539] If you're in need, you volunteer.

[540] And then by busing a table, washing a dish, working in the garden, you've earned your meal.

[541] So now you feel good about what you're doing.

[542] Yeah, yeah.

[543] You have a purpose and a sense of industry.

[544] We take no government money, so there's nothing institutional about it.

[545] There's no plastic trays and processed food and soda pop or booze.

[546] You know, we're coming there to feed a family and hopefully volunteer and then move you on.

[547] So that was the first one.

[548] The second one after Superstorm Sandy hits New Jersey, and we know that much more.

[549] Under our roof, we take a food pantry, a food bank, a service provider, a culinary program.

[550] and then we're the flagship tenant, if you will.

[551] And then all of that's under one roof because we realize that those people in need of those services, it's not like they can jump in the range rover and drive out to the service provider, come back, go to the food pantry.

[552] So they're all under one roof that we were able to provide.

[553] Then we realized that there were kids on college campuses with food insecurity.

[554] So Rutgers University, we opened our third one.

[555] And we're feeding college kids and Rutgers at Norrk embraced the concept, God bless them, but then COVID hit.

[556] So now they closed their doors, and we'll eventually reopen, but right now kids can't go to the restaurant on the college campus.

[557] Then COVID really cripples the country, but out on Eastern Long Island, where we often spend our summers, we knew that the need was dire.

[558] And so that's when we opened our first food bank.

[559] and there was a wonderful family, the Rubenstein family who owned this family entertainment complex, but they can't use it.

[560] You know, they can't let people go bowling and play mini golf.

[561] So they give us the place.

[562] And so I provide all the food.

[563] We pay for everything.

[564] We bring it all in from New Jersey, so nobody thinks we're taking anything from anyone in Long Island.

[565] And we are able to provide for five months now the food to the food pantries who then get it to the 25 ,000 people.

[566] people that we've fed. And so it's been wonderful.

[567] You know, and I got a souvenir out of the deal.

[568] And now we're back in the city, putting our kids back in school.

[569] The souvenir being the hernia.

[570] A nice hernia operation.

[571] Well, look, there's a more shameful way to get an injury.

[572] Yeah.

[573] There's a dude in my meeting the other day who came in limping, and he is 58.

[574] And he goes, I can't believe I'm going to tell you guys this, but this is a sex injury.

[575] Just having normal sex, I blew out my ankle.

[576] And I'm like, that's the best age -related story I've heard in my life.

[577] Like, that's where I'll hit you.

[578] Can't even have sex without getting injured.

[579] That's demoralizing.

[580] Now, having done that work, I think anyone that endeavors to what you've done and have accomplished, it's really easy for the identity to really get anchored in that.

[581] And having your identity anchored in this other area, I'm sure.

[582] Being a father's got to be the number one.

[583] And then, you know, having affected this change, that's just a whole different sliver of an identity, isn't it?

[584] And one that kind of feels like it has substance.

[585] Yeah, yeah.

[586] It certainly didn't add to anything under the header of cliche, cool, oh, go start a food bank in a bunch of restaurants and, you know, and do that.

[587] In fact, it was foreign to anyone that we'd bring it up to.

[588] but that makes us my wife and I uniquely us is that we do this and and I like that and to be defined just by being in a rock band would be awful to me and I think I even thought that way when I was young it's what I do it's not who I am right there's always been so much more for me although there are days when I think about am I lying to myself or not because you know you'd say all right it's over walk away okay what am i going to do this is what i it's what i do so even like not being able to tour this year canceling the tour outright postponing a record i couldn't not write songs i think i could honestly tell you that i could not perform again i really could tell you i'd be okay with that it's not my burning desire but to make a record and to be excited about writing a song that comes to fruition on a record, then you want to share in that order, that I think I'd want to continue to do.

[589] But the identity that comes with that, you know, I'm sort of in the middle.

[590] Like, it's good because I get to talk to you and I get to go on TV shows and, you know, and all the kind of fun stuff that comes with being me. And the downside is I don't really look forward to go back to that hotel room ever again.

[591] Yeah.

[592] Well, and I'd imagine the other cycle you get stuck in.

[593] I certainly did in movies, which is like, I go away on a location.

[594] I'm gone for three months.

[595] It's my own little bubble.

[596] I love that little bubble.

[597] And then I miss home.

[598] But then I'm home and I'm like, I got to get myself back in that bubble.

[599] I'm almost never happy either place.

[600] And so I'm like happy in both places and also unhappy in both places.

[601] Sure, sure, sure.

[602] That's natural.

[603] That's everybody.

[604] That's everybody.

[605] It's not like I want to give it up just because, oh, I can't bear being away from home.

[606] No, I could bear being away from home.

[607] As soon as I was, you know, there in the bubble, I would relent.

[608] And I'd be, okay, I'm cool.

[609] I'm happy to be here.

[610] Between now and getting into that bubble, I'd be bitching and moaning all the time.

[611] But nowadays, because it was taken away from all of us at the same time, I don't know.

[612] In a year from now, I'm going to think one of two different ways.

[613] I can't wait to play again or I might be done forever.

[614] Yeah.

[615] I just don't know.

[616] I don't know.

[617] We'll see.

[618] Well, don't you think you and I were brainwashed in that.

[619] you bust your ass, you save your money, and then you retire, and it's this blueprint that's in my mind.

[620] And then so often I think, oh, retire from this terrible job of saying sentences in front of a camera.

[621] Like, what are you acting?

[622] You know, I'm not in a factory in Detroit.

[623] And then peers of mine in the industry, we talk about retiring.

[624] And I just think it's like this blueprint that got installed that sometimes I think maybe I should challenge.

[625] Maybe I should embrace.

[626] I'm not sure.

[627] I think everyone feels the same way.

[628] at least I do.

[629] I'm with you on that.

[630] Because I don't know which way.

[631] I, honest to God, don't know which way.

[632] It's like, am I going to be great doing it because it's what I need in my bones, the way I needed it in my bones?

[633] I don't know right now.

[634] Yeah.

[635] That's fair.

[636] Yeah.

[637] It is fair.

[638] It's just an interesting time in my life that I'm going, I don't know what I'd do in retirement.

[639] I don't want to retire in order to fill in the blank.

[640] That's not the motivation at all.

[641] and it's not because we're not still selling out everywhere because I always said when I'm on the where are they now tour I'm out right right right right so that's not it either I would love to see you prance out on dancing with the stars she's a little run away and you'd be spinning someone you'd have sequence and shit I want to see it the masked singer and all the rest of it yeah no you know I'm out it's okay Okay, let's talk about your new album.

[642] Your new album is called 2020.

[643] And you've described it as being about life, love, loss, and everything in between.

[644] So the whole gamut.

[645] But you added two songs late into it.

[646] And I wonder just how you make that decision.

[647] If you're like, oh, do we have time to do this?

[648] Just how does that come about?

[649] It's a very topical record.

[650] When I first come up with the title and we were recording now, what I could look back and say were the first batch of songs for the record, I came out of the bathroom.

[651] Asheville and I said to the guys, I got the title, 2020.

[652] I said, if nothing else, it's a tongue -in -cheek political campaign and who knows what's going to happen a year from now with politics.

[653] And so there's a great t -shirt.

[654] That was it.

[655] But then I started to write topical songs because of everything that was going on around us.

[656] And I turned in that record.

[657] And it had a good amount of substance that was, in fact, topical.

[658] But if you're going to claim to write that topical record and be a witness to history and then history happens right under our feet with COVID and then the death of George Floyd you have to open up the can again and get under the hood and so I did and I fine tuned several of the existing songs to make them even more clear and I sat down and wrote do what you can about the whole COVID thing and then I wrote American reckoning and I really went out on limb because of white privilege and, you know, who am I to be talking about this kind of stuff, and then re -submit the record.

[659] And I'm very, very proud of it.

[660] I'm happy for you, genuinely.

[661] And I have to imagine for you, you want to give people a song they get married to.

[662] You want to give people an experience at a concert where they hit a 10 naturally.

[663] I have to imagine most of your career, you've been like, why would I alienate half the people?

[664] Certainly it wasn't as bad back then as it is now, but was that ever part of your analysis?

[665] Like, I've got a different thing I want to spread and I want to keep it as open to as many people as possible.

[666] Well, that would be an obvious answer, especially when I was a younger guy, when you had single -minded focus, which was simply to make records and entertain people.

[667] You know, I would often bring up an example.

[668] So Bono is probably right at my age.

[669] He's a couple months older, I think.

[670] His upbringing was obviously very different than mine.

[671] I never had the orange men walking through my neighborhood and saying, you know, get the Catholic kid and beat him up.

[672] You know, I didn't have any of that kind of turmoil in suburban New Jersey when you had a wonderful middle class upbringing with two hardworking parents.

[673] So, of course, you're writing the happy anthemic song.

[674] Although Runaway, really, if you think about it, had a social consciousness to it, talking about the girl was on the street corner while I was looking up to get off the bus and walk 10 blocks to the recording studio as the gopher in, I was aware of the world around me, but I chose not to get involved and I don't blame myself.

[675] I was 21 years old and that's all I had to live for.

[676] Yeah.

[677] Also very defendable.

[678] Like here's my point on politics.

[679] I have very strong political opinions, but there are many people that are outspoken, right?

[680] So if I don't do this thing I would like to do, it's okay.

[681] Bill Maher's doing it.

[682] So there's part of me that's like everyone's got a little bubble they're going to specialize and you don't have to be, you don't have to be in every bubble.

[683] And I think that's a little bit defendable, which is people need a reprieve.

[684] And so, And they deserve a reprieve, you know?

[685] There's going to be some trouble for me on this record.

[686] Right, right.

[687] Because I have evolved.

[688] You know, I'm not sitting here dyeing my hair blonde and, you know, and pretending to be 25.

[689] I'm 58 years old and you know what I stand for.

[690] But now where the record is defensible is that if you really listen closely to every song, it doesn't take sides.

[691] Yeah.

[692] I am but a witness to history.

[693] I don't take sides.

[694] I know what my opinions are, and so do you.

[695] But I don't take sides.

[696] There's a song on this record called Lower the Flag.

[697] And I was just appalled that two shootings happened on a Saturday night and a Sunday morning.

[698] So when I woke up to the second one, I couldn't believe that the reporter was saying, and we'll be right back with the weather in sports.

[699] And you're thinking, wow, are we that numb?

[700] So I had to sit down and write that song.

[701] but never once do I say guns are bad, bullets are bad because people really believe in their Second Amendment rights and I understand that so all I ask in the song is if this happened to a family member how would you feel and I wrote the song so you know I'm just trying to have a conversation about how would you feel you're asking for empathy like go ahead and take five minutes and just think here was my discovery of white privilege I fucking hated that term the first time I heard it because all I heard was that what I got was handed to me. And I immediately started building on my defense.

[702] But the fuck it was.

[703] I moved to California with nothing.

[704] I did this.

[705] I did this.

[706] You know, no one knocked on my door and said, here you go.

[707] So that I was defensive.

[708] And then slowly it occurred to me, I walked around L .A. with drugs on me for 12 years.

[709] I got pulled over many times drunk with drugs on me. If I'm black, A, I would have been pulled over about a hundred times more and then I would have been prosecuted and that jury would have found me guilty and that judge would have given me a different sentence.

[710] And so for the first time was like, I would have been in prison.

[711] I'm not here.

[712] I'm black.

[713] I had the same life did the same thing.

[714] I'm in prison.

[715] That's almost inarguable.

[716] So that was my breakthrough of like, oh yeah, I've had many struggles, but the color of my skin has not been one of those struggles.

[717] Correct.

[718] And hopefully millions of us learned that story too.

[719] And I certainly made sure that I learned it.

[720] And that is true.

[721] You and I are very lucky.

[722] And now I realize even more so why.

[723] I have to imagine, too, that you have the same desire that I do, which is I most, most want more than anything is that people could start chatting again that the sides weren't opposite.

[724] That to me is more heartbreaking.

[725] Most of the single issues I care about.

[726] There's a couple that are above that.

[727] But for me, I'm really discouraged.

[728] And even while you're describing your charity, which could only be taken as something wonderfully positive, I was thinking, God, in this day and age, someone thinks that's political, just helping people, that that would be a political statement.

[729] Does that occur to you?

[730] And isn't that not annoying that wearing a mask is a political decision?

[731] Well, isn't that something?

[732] That's become politicized.

[733] Taking a If you remember, Colin Kaepernick took it out of racial injustice and police brutality, had nothing to do with the flag.

[734] The NFL lost the narrative.

[735] I never got it back.

[736] And now, three years later, now they said, I'm sorry, you're right.

[737] But I remember the day that they lost the narrative.

[738] And I remember the day that they decided not to get it back.

[739] And it turned into something that was really a problem.

[740] And it ruined a man's livelihood.

[741] And it alienated fans and, you know, it's the game that I love and the business that I loved.

[742] And I remember how it happened.

[743] So it's a bitch that people aren't talking.

[744] Maybe the greatest thing that can come out of these last four years is that we realize it's time to start talking.

[745] Or, God forbid, Dax, if I'm talking to you in December and it's not the United States that we recognize anymore, that decision will have been made by the electorate, and the American dream lasted for a nice run.

[746] A real nice run.

[747] Don't, whatever you do, do not want.

[748] What's the name of that documentary we just watched on Netflix?

[749] Social Dilemma.

[750] Social Dilemma.

[751] Have you watched this yet?

[752] No, I haven't seen that.

[753] You're going to walk into the room and just think for about an hour afterwards.

[754] Yeah.

[755] Yeah, we are powerless over an algorithm that's much smarter than we are, and its singular goal is to put us in tribes.

[756] Well, you know, here comes the north and south again.

[757] Here comes, you know, it's crazy, cray.

[758] It's crazy cray.

[759] And count on it happening.

[760] The question is, is to what degree?

[761] Yeah.

[762] You know, regardless of the outcome, there's going to be some civil unrest.

[763] The question is, is the civil unrest turn into civil war?

[764] Does it turn into red versus blue, me versus you?

[765] I don't know.

[766] And I pray not.

[767] Yeah, me too.

[768] Well, I am glad that you are in a position now that you can do whatever you want.

[769] I think of all the things people would maybe daydream about your life, the things that would be satisfying are probably a little underwhelming when you're actually living them.

[770] And I would imagine having the freedom for you to lead with your ethics is awesome.

[771] It's a gift that we all have.

[772] And so it's up to each and every individual to make that worth gold, you know, to make that ethics and that moral compass worth gold.

[773] And we can.

[774] And I'm not opposed to the opposite sides.

[775] I'm really honest to God open to listening.

[776] But don't lead with hate, you know, just lead with some compassion and I'm more than willing to sit down and talk about it.

[777] And how about some just humility?

[778] That could be a singular goal both sides have, which is like, yeah, we all got opinions.

[779] We're all certain they're dead right.

[780] We're all, you know, we're all geniuses, but maybe just a bit of humility.

[781] And so open ears.

[782] All right.

[783] Yeah.

[784] Well, John Bon Jovi, you fucking rule.

[785] I hope you say hi to my wife when you see her at Howard's house.

[786] Thanks, you guys.

[787] Where can people go to help support your foundation?

[788] The jBJ SoulFoundation .org.

[789] J .BJ