Lili Reinhart

[0] Welcome, welcome.

[1] Welcome.

[2] Now, I'm chair.

[3] I'm to X. Shepard.

[4] I'm joined by Mr. Mouse, the minister of Duluth.

[5] Hello.

[6] That is a mix -up.

[7] We love having you back.

[8] I know you've been back for a week now.

[9] You're home, too.

[10] Yes, I'm home too, but I've been home for one week longer.

[11] Okay.

[12] Anywho, fantastic actor on the show today.

[13] Oh, yeah.

[14] And beyond being a fantastic actor, Lily Reinhart is so cool.

[15] Yeah, we...

[16] She's so honest.

[17] I don't remember why this happened, but...

[18] Our chairs were closer to her.

[19] They were, weren't they?

[20] I don't know why.

[21] It was a new position for us.

[22] And it made it feel extra intimate.

[23] And she's such an open book.

[24] Yeah.

[25] I love it.

[26] Anyways, you certainly fell in love with her on Riverdale.

[27] She also was in Hustlers, Chemical Hearts, Miss Stevens, and she has a new movie that's out right now.

[28] Look Both Ways.

[29] On Netflix.

[30] So check out Look Both Ways.

[31] Lily's going to blow your fucking skirt back.

[32] Is that a term?

[33] your hair back.

[34] She's going to knock your dick in the dirt.

[35] Please enjoy Lily Reinhart.

[36] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[37] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[38] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[39] He's an armchair expert.

[40] He's an upchair expert.

[41] Do you have a walk over here?

[42] Did you drive?

[43] What was for the sweater?

[44] I'm never dressed appropriately, but that's okay.

[45] I don't know, is that true?

[46] Because you run cold.

[47] Exactly.

[48] This is the dilemma I face, right?

[49] Like, on the walk, I get hot, but I know I'll be cold in here.

[50] Right, right.

[51] Ran into Ben Schwartz on my walk.

[52] Do you know Ben Schwartz?

[53] Wait, why does that?

[54] You'd probably recognize.

[55] Yeah, I would.

[56] His name sounds super.

[57] House of Lies.

[58] Sonic the Hedgehog.

[59] Come on.

[60] Oh, God.

[61] Parks and Rack, I think everyone knows him from.

[62] Oh, yep.

[63] John Ralphio on Parks and Rack if you watch them.

[64] Yeah, you'd recognize him.

[65] I'd recognize this face.

[66] I'm bad with...

[67] Median.

[68] Names.

[69] Okay, me too.

[70] But it's good with faces.

[71] Yeah, same, same.

[72] Do you have any learning disabilities?

[73] I have a lot of mental illnesses, but I don't have a lot of learning disability.

[74] I would normally save this for the end, but you just have one of the most knockout punch last sentences in your Wikipedia.

[75] Oh, shit, really?

[76] What is it?

[77] Ryanard is a Christian.

[78] She practices meditation and is training to be a Reiki healer.

[79] Ryanart was diagnosed with depression at age 14.

[80] Oh, my gosh.

[81] I'm going to spit on myself.

[82] Oh, my God.

[83] A lot's happening right now.

[84] I'm a little nervous reading this.

[85] Diagnosed with depression at 14.

[86] She also suffers from anxiety and body dysmorphia.

[87] She has come out as bisexual.

[88] Oh, that's a lot of sentences.

[89] I have no idea that it said that.

[90] That's hilarious.

[91] I'm certainly not the one who wrote that.

[92] Those are just fans coming in and popping in with what they think you might have.

[93] Well, listen, I too learned the hard way not to read mine because it was very, very wrong.

[94] And then there's no way to change it.

[95] So I was like, just best not to ever look at that ever again.

[96] Oh, my God.

[97] So funny.

[98] Speaking of this, there's a website or something called like MarriedStatus .com, something ridiculous.

[99] And there was a post about me about me and my ex -boyfriend.

[100] I don't have an ex -boyfriend.

[101] Oh, shit.

[102] Like at all.

[103] So it's a lie.

[104] Me and my ex -boyfriend.

[105] A couple ex -lovers.

[106] Cameron.

[107] Oh, Cameron Cruz?

[108] We have a friend named Cameron and he was labeled.

[109] He's a. gay.

[110] Fucking gorgeous.

[111] We'd all be lucky to be married to him.

[112] I wish.

[113] I mean, he sent it to me. I was like, do we need to talk?

[114] I was like, oh boy.

[115] It was about me and my ex -boyfriend, Cameron, and then there was a picture.

[116] And the picture was of me and my ex -roomate Anthony.

[117] Oh, wow.

[118] Real mix -up.

[119] And then it said, luckily, they broke up just in time for Cameron to have a fling with Ryan Hanson.

[120] And then there's a picture of Ryan and Cameron.

[121] This sounds like Jedediah.

[122] This is a love triangle.

[123] It's a love triangle.

[124] I didn't even know I was involved in.

[125] Oh, my God.

[126] I know.

[127] It's really exciting.

[128] Anthony was so flattered.

[129] He was like, I'm famous.

[130] And also I'm Cameron.

[131] Okay, so let's just start with the fact that you're wearing a lovely ensemble that involves, is it roses or cherries?

[132] It's cherries.

[133] I was wearing, I changed.

[134] I was going to wear a pink dress with little hearts on it.

[135] And I felt that was a little not representative of who I am genuinely.

[136] So I was like, we're going to go a little bit darker.

[137] Oh, my God.

[138] It's so wonderful.

[139] And it's Sim.

[140] And then we're both Midwesterners.

[141] Did you go to Cedar Point a lot when you're good?

[142] Of course.

[143] I grew up spending my hollow weekends.

[144] Uh -huh.

[145] And then driving.

[146] Yeah, Sandusky was like, we have to make the 45 -minute drive to Sandusky.

[147] We were 16.

[148] Did you ever go with a boyfriend and wear a matching outfit?

[149] Absolutely not.

[150] Okay.

[151] But you are aware of that.

[152] Or does that date me?

[153] I think that dates you a little bit.

[154] That's going to happen.

[155] I think people do that at Disney World.

[156] I've been going, you know, there was the wave with my grandparents they would take me. And then as a teenager, like you're saying.

[157] Did you go as a kid, kid with mom and dad?

[158] No, I don't think I did.

[159] It was more so when I was like a preteen and then a teenager.

[160] And would you look at boys and girls in line and like, yeah, of course.

[161] You see the people that make out in roller coaster lines.

[162] Oh, yes.

[163] People just love to flaunt their relationship.

[164] I know.

[165] Waiting in line for a roller coaster.

[166] I was one of those people.

[167] When lucky enough, you know, when you were there with a girlfriend, you did a lot of grab ass because it's boring.

[168] You're in line a lot.

[169] You spend the whole day in line.

[170] Yeah.

[171] And you're 16.

[172] You just started doing all this making out and grabbing and stuff.

[173] So you're getting after it.

[174] When you're single, it's like a lot of hours of looking at other people kissing and touching butts.

[175] Do you like PDA?

[176] Zero to 10.

[177] I am a seven.

[178] I don't mind when people do it.

[179] Obviously, you can be a little excessive.

[180] But I think funerals.

[181] But I feel like if you love someone and that's your love language, you should be able to do it.

[182] Oh, I agree.

[183] And you personally, are you a PDA person?

[184] Yeah.

[185] I am a very physical touch lover.

[186] So I like to make contact constantly.

[187] Yeah, yeah.

[188] Is that part of one of the love languages?

[189] Tamarins are these cute little primates.

[190] And they just sit on tree branches holding one another, like looking at the world to see if anything bad's coming.

[191] That's the perfect relationship.

[192] Genuinely.

[193] But other people aren't that way, and I wonder how much is, like, genetic predisposition.

[194] Although it's weird because my friends know they don't, like, hug me randomly throughout the day.

[195] It's more so just with a partner.

[196] So when we hugged at the top of this.

[197] It was so awful for me. No, it was great.

[198] It was great.

[199] I'm the same touch -wise.

[200] I feel like I lacked some.

[201] Sure.

[202] Monicas is compounded by immigrant parents a little bit.

[203] Yeah.

[204] They just weren't raised that way, so they didn't do that.

[205] Your parents, they are not immigrants, despite the Reinhardt.

[206] Someone could be from Germany a minute ago.

[207] I mean, I haven't looked too deep into my lineage, to be honest, but...

[208] We're going to bring out our expert now.

[209] Bring them in, Rob.

[210] I can't believe people are willing to do that show after so many people are revealed to have had slave owners in their history.

[211] Who do you think you are, I think it was called?

[212] Is that the show?

[213] Something like that.

[214] There's like two versions, too.

[215] There's like the PBS one, which is like really nice and boring.

[216] It's a professor walking you through it.

[217] And then they're going to find everything.

[218] Right.

[219] And I think there might be a little more of a salacious kind of 8 p .m. on a Sunday on Fox version.

[220] Look at how awful your family is.

[221] Or they're only looking for a famous person in your background.

[222] Sure.

[223] Something of that nature.

[224] Yeah, yeah.

[225] Okay.

[226] What kind of parents do you have?

[227] I have really wonderful parents.

[228] They're still together.

[229] I've been married for over 30 years.

[230] Are they Clevelandites as well?

[231] Clevelanders?

[232] Clevelanders.

[233] Yeah, I should know this.

[234] They live in North Carolina now.

[235] We moved when I was 16 for my dad's job.

[236] Okay.

[237] What part of North Carolina?

[238] Just north of Charlotte.

[239] Oh, wonderful.

[240] Do you ever get out to Asheville?

[241] I've been to Asheville.

[242] I've been to the Biltmore Estate.

[243] What a place.

[244] It's beautiful, you know.

[245] It has some history that we're not proud of, but beautiful place.

[246] North Carolina was never my home.

[247] I lived there for two to three years.

[248] What ages?

[249] 16 to 19.

[250] And I was in the middle of my junior year of high school when I left Cleveland.

[251] But my parents, this was the ultimatum.

[252] They said, look, We will wait and dad will do long distance and we'll let you graduate high school if you want, or we can move.

[253] And I said, I will move to North Carolina if you let me finish school online because I hated school and because I wanted to focus all my time and effort on self -tapes and acting because I wasn't successful.

[254] You did a pilot at 14 somehow?

[255] I think I was 12 when I did a pilot.

[256] Holy smokes.

[257] Yeah, so I was stepping into the scene but certainly wasn't making any moves.

[258] I was hustling for a while.

[259] This is a good who done it for me. Your father was employed in the Cleveland area and then became employed in the north of Charlotte area.

[260] Now, I'm trying to think what industries overlap.

[261] You're never going to guess.

[262] It's just the most obscure random shit you've ever heard.

[263] Okay, that's a good clue.

[264] Charlotte's the home of NASCAR.

[265] Do you know that?

[266] No, but I don't think it's going to be that.

[267] Moorsville, North Carolina is the home of NASCAR.

[268] Oh, wow.

[269] You know that specific.

[270] know that because we did live there for a second before we settled in the town that they're in now was that a rowdy town rowdy as in rowdy like guys getting ripped laying rubber i didn't really go outside okay you were doing those self tapes inside i genuinely was inside hating my life looking at your flip camera or whatever yeah 100 % yeah yeah psychometrician oh my god what is a psychometrician yeah i don't even know what that is hell wait oh that was a new word we learned psychometrician what Is it it?

[271] My friend Robbie's a psychometrician and he's lived in North Carolina.

[272] So that's what I did there.

[273] That's the connection there.

[274] And there aren't that many places.

[275] What is it?

[276] It's basically statistics for testing.

[277] He works for standardized testing and he does like statistics for it.

[278] It's very highbrow.

[279] This is my one and only guess.

[280] I won't belabor this any longer.

[281] Forensic accountant.

[282] So he, I believe he's currently the vice president of a company.

[283] that sells machinery that cuts glass.

[284] Oh, wonderful.

[285] So they make diamond cutting machines.

[286] Yes.

[287] He's been in that business for, I think, over 20 years, very random.

[288] Very niche.

[289] That was like the sentence I was when people are like, my mom was like, when people ask what your dad to just say he works at a company that sells machinery that cuts glass for like windows and glasses.

[290] And that was her most condensed version, by the way.

[291] I'm like, what else am I supposed?

[292] Right.

[293] Oh, my God.

[294] Do you think he's secretly a drug dealer and she had to tell you like, okay, this This is exactly what you say when people ask.

[295] That would be really dope and a cool story to tell.

[296] Also, the cities don't link up.

[297] Neither of those are hubs for - North Carolina, Ohio.

[298] That's what you think.

[299] Those are end of the line.

[300] He'd have to be like a street dealer for that.

[301] Sure, which is possible.

[302] He needs to get further up the supply chain.

[303] All right.

[304] Maybe he's just doing a good job keeping it quiet.

[305] True, true, true.

[306] Maybe he has another family that I don't know about.

[307] Oh, that would be exciting.

[308] What did mom do?

[309] My mother was in home health care.

[310] She's an angel.

[311] She has been taking care of other people for her whole life.

[312] When I was young, I told people that, oh, my mom used to wipe nun's butts.

[313] Wow.

[314] Because she worked at, I don't even know where it was, a nursing home for nuns.

[315] The nuns.

[316] Where she would take care of old nuns.

[317] Okay.

[318] Wow.

[319] Now, that's a very special type of person.

[320] But I have to say this, it's a circle.

[321] So on one side, like on the very edge, you have an angel who wipes butts.

[322] But then, like, two steps to the right of that is Moonschhausen.

[323] Okay.

[324] Okay, do you know about Moonschausen?

[325] I do.

[326] It predominantly affects nurses.

[327] Most people who suffer from Moonschausen are nurses.

[328] And then by proxy are the children of nurses.

[329] Very interesting.

[330] Does she ever affect any illness?

[331] No. Okay.

[332] Just because you're around illness all the time.

[333] I think the proximity.

[334] Search it out.

[335] We need an expert on.

[336] We do know that part of it really well, though, that it is mostly nurses.

[337] Interesting.

[338] My older sister's a nurse.

[339] Oh, she is.

[340] A nurse, my mom's sister.

[341] Any of them have a mysterious illness?

[342] None of them do.

[343] Or anyone around them have a mysterious.

[344] Not yet.

[345] I'll keep you posted on that.

[346] Great.

[347] So she's on the good side of the circle.

[348] I'm in all of that.

[349] Literally, every time I'm in a hospital and I'm watching what the nurses do, the non -moonchowson ones, and what they're dealing with.

[350] I mean, you want to talk about where the rubber meets the road.

[351] This is where the gnarliness of being alive.

[352] 100 % is ground zero.

[353] And their ability to just deal with the fluids and all these things, I'm like, fucking thank God people are drawn to this.

[354] I'm literally so grateful that people want to do that.

[355] When I was 16 and thought maybe this career wouldn't work out for me, I looked into being a paramedic.

[356] Wow.

[357] Because that stuff doesn't bother me. If anything, I find it incredibly fascinating.

[358] I dabbled in special effects makeup and was trying to do the most gory shit I could find.

[359] I was very disturbed as a teenager.

[360] And when I moved from Ohio to North Carolina, I was a little bit.

[361] very isolated, very alone.

[362] And to be honest, and as I've realized as an adult, I was seeking out watching the most fucked up, gory horror movies I could find because when I was watching those movies, I was not thinking about anything else.

[363] It was like the shock factor and it pulled me into these worlds.

[364] It was like a form of escape.

[365] Yeah.

[366] And did you watch some movies over and over again?

[367] I definitely am like a repeat watcher.

[368] I find comfort knowing what's going to happen, feeling the comfort, the familiarity of something that I've seen.

[369] Monica just brought this to everyone's attention.

[370] Are you remembering?

[371] Yeah, that it's people with anxiety.

[372] People with anxiety tend, that's one of the coping mechanisms.

[373] They're scared, but they know the ending, they know everything works out all right.

[374] Right.

[375] And our sweet Monica watched contagion.

[376] Okay.

[377] Oh, yeah.

[378] How many times at the beginning of the pandemic?

[379] I mean, a dozen.

[380] So many.

[381] I'm going to watch it tonight.

[382] I love that movie It's such a good movie But yeah At the very beginning of the pandemic Also it was compounded by the fact I had just had a seizure And the very beginning of the movie She has a seizure Big juicy seizure Yeah and then I like Had to keep watch It was it was very weird I think it was an anxiety release Of just watching the whole thing play out From A to Z When we were just at A In real life Yeah I guess brought me some comfort Damn I know So is that hard hitting last stanza in your Wikipedia.

[383] Do you find that most of those things were accurate in there?

[384] They're accurate.

[385] Okay, great.

[386] So 14 is when anxiety.

[387] I've always had anxiety.

[388] Looking back as a child, I didn't want to go to sleepovers.

[389] I didn't want to go to birthday parties.

[390] I was very attached to my mom, like physically clinging to her.

[391] I hated school.

[392] I would cry before school.

[393] Cry to my teachers.

[394] Say, I just want to be home.

[395] So I was a home body.

[396] But I think no one really knew that that was.

[397] was a form of anxiety.

[398] I mean, just, she's just a kid.

[399] She just wants to be with her mom.

[400] Or they go to like the four days of school they hated.

[401] And they're like, well, everyone hates school.

[402] Right.

[403] Of course.

[404] But mine was a little bit more extra.

[405] And then as I got older, the social anxiety got more intense.

[406] As I started to invest more time into theater and acting, it was sort of like my life split off into two directions.

[407] Seventh grade is really where it manifested.

[408] So I was 11.

[409] I was going to theater.

[410] I was with these people who understood me. I felt like I was in a community, a family.

[411] I was doing what I love.

[412] And then I would have to go to school the next day with people who I felt didn't know what the fuck was going on, what they wanted to do.

[413] Billistines, low brows.

[414] Yeah, lowbrow.

[415] But it really wasn't even like that.

[416] I had nothing against the people I was going to school that I just felt very misunderstood.

[417] You couldn't snap into what they were interested in.

[418] No, I was like, I don't, I didn't go to parties.

[419] I didn't care.

[420] I wasn't a boy crazy girl.

[421] I was like, I'm going to be an actress.

[422] Yeah.

[423] I know I'm going to do this.

[424] Right.

[425] None of you guys know what you want to do.

[426] I can't relate to any of you.

[427] I'm like an old soul with this incredible amount of anxiety.

[428] None of you can relate.

[429] It was very isolating.

[430] Did you have ticks?

[431] I did have a weird tick growing up that was OCD where I would have to touch different surfaces in three different ways.

[432] I would have to touch it with my fingertips, touch it with the back of my nail, and then scratch it with the tip of my nail.

[433] Totally right.

[434] So it was like, would lean down on the sidewalk and tap, tap, tap.

[435] Yeah.

[436] Very strange.

[437] Yeah.

[438] And did you get good at banging it out quick so no one would notice?

[439] Oh, yeah, it was very quick.

[440] Yeah.

[441] And did you ever get busted?

[442] No. Do you have any siblings?

[443] I do have two sisters.

[444] Older or younger?

[445] Both.

[446] I'm a middle.

[447] Oh, okay.

[448] Same as stacks.

[449] Me too.

[450] I had a lot of ticks.

[451] Oh, interesting.

[452] And I thought so many of them no one knew about right.

[453] So my other thing was like, it drove me insane how dry my fingertips would be.

[454] Okay.

[455] Consumed with how dry they were.

[456] So I would just do.

[457] the gentlest thing, I would just go, and I would touch the tips of my fingertips on my tongue.

[458] Just get them damp a little bit.

[459] As one does.

[460] I don't have to tell you that doesn't last very long.

[461] So this is something that had to happen all the time.

[462] But certainly no one noticed that because people leave their hand on their sin, whatever.

[463] And I remember once I was in the front seat, my mom was driving.

[464] And that bitch, my little sister, who's inside this house right now.

[465] He goes, ugh, why do you always lick your fingertips?

[466] And I'm like, oh, I don't lick my fingertips.

[467] It's just like the deep burning of humiliation.

[468] Yeah, it's just like, oh, my God, if she knows, who else knows?

[469] Yeah.

[470] You know, that I'm doing this.

[471] Oh, I did suck my thumb.

[472] I remember sucking my thumb in kindergarten and literally looking around, like, grabbing a quick pull.

[473] A quick pull of the thumb in my mouth.

[474] But now.

[475] A little hit.

[476] Truly, like a little dab.

[477] It's so funny because that doesn't give you what you need from a little thumb suck.

[478] And nor did me licking the tips.

[479] I would have preferred to just rest my fingertips in my mouth, to be honest.

[480] So they would be nice and moist at all the time.

[481] Oh, my God.

[482] I bet I would have liked that person.

[483] If there was a boy in your class, they rested his fingers in his mouth.

[484] Yeah.

[485] It's definitely interesting.

[486] Now I have a nice thing where I have to type things.

[487] Oh, I do that.

[488] Yeah, a lot of people do.

[489] My mom does it, so I know my mom and I are linked.

[490] I'll be, like, sitting in the movie theater, watching a movie.

[491] A character will say, like, a very interesting sense.

[492] or a word, and I'll just sit there and type it, like, on my lap.

[493] And you're not miming an iPhone.

[494] You're miming a keyboard.

[495] You're a writer.

[496] I mean, I don't consider myself a writer.

[497] When you write a book and you put it out in the world, you're a writer.

[498] I hate to break it to you.

[499] I know.

[500] It just feels, I get it.

[501] You feel fraudulent.

[502] I do.

[503] A hundred percent.

[504] But let's just agree on the definition of a writer.

[505] Someone who writes.

[506] Yeah, sure.

[507] And then even beyond that, a professional writer, one who publishes work and gets paid for it.

[508] So unfortunately.

[509] But you know what?

[510] a lot of mixed feelings about that.

[511] What are your mixed feelings?

[512] I don't feel proud of what I've published.

[513] Really?

[514] I don't.

[515] I mean, poetry is such a niche thing.

[516] I feel like there's a lot of people who write poetry who think they're good at it.

[517] Some people are.

[518] Some people aren't.

[519] Well, let's be honest.

[520] Of all the genres of writing, the fewest are good at poetry.

[521] It's hard.

[522] It's hard.

[523] I can name you 10 ,000 novelists that are great.

[524] Essay writers.

[525] Poets?

[526] I don't know.

[527] I mean, yeah.

[528] Sure.

[529] There's a huge.

[530] now online environment of poets and typewriter poetry and Instagram poets.

[531] And I always, because I'm just a lofty, romantic bitch, would just be writing all the time little things that I never intended to publish genuinely.

[532] It came out of feeling a little creatively stunted and thinking, what can I do that I have pure control over?

[533] I'm not going to make an album.

[534] I'm not a dancer.

[535] Like, what can I do?

[536] Yet and yet.

[537] But I do write.

[538] So the idea of a poetry book was floated around, and I don't have any regrets.

[539] But this is my regret.

[540] I do feel that I published my writing before I was ready.

[541] Okay.

[542] Having known you for 11 minutes, I have a theory on what it is that's uneasy about this experience for you.

[543] I don't know all the details.

[544] But you've done writing that was self -motivated and it was intrinsically motivated.

[545] And you feel good about it because it wasn't for anyone.

[546] You can't feel bad about it.

[547] It was in you, you got it out.

[548] But the notion that someone was like, you know, you could publish a book.

[549] that the inception of it involves a maybe not your idea originally and then be some extrinsic element well now this isn't the thing i do i did something i don't do sure exactly like it wasn't something that i was so confident in right it was something that i was taking a leap of faith it was something you did but you had no intention per se to for myself yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i was never writing to profit off of it it was never the goal i am a very open book i like to talk about everything my mental health, issues in the industry, all the things.

[550] But I do feel that when I published, people were linking my poetry to a specific person.

[551] Okay.

[552] You mean a character on a show?

[553] No, my real -life ex -boyfriend.

[554] Oh, okay.

[555] And it felt Cameron?

[556] Yeah.

[557] You're ex.

[558] Cameron or Anthony?

[559] And it felt like all of a sudden my book was a spectacle.

[560] Okay.

[561] Yeah.

[562] That was absolutely never the intention.

[563] I'm going to add a layer to it.

[564] This is happen to me repeatedly, which is I'm drawn to writing because I have ultimate control over the world.

[565] I control all the characters.

[566] I feel very safe in there.

[567] And then I turn it over.

[568] And now it's like the definition of powerlessness.

[569] Now it's being consumed by all these people.

[570] I have no intention for them to consume it or have an opinion about it.

[571] And then now they're talking about it.

[572] It went to the apex of powerlessness when the appeal of the process is control.

[573] But it's also I'm writing my feelings and people are having opinions on my feelings.

[574] Yeah.

[575] Poetry is pure feeling.

[576] Mine was.

[577] So for people to suddenly have opinions and be like, this is bad.

[578] Sure.

[579] Your feelings are bad.

[580] Yeah.

[581] How can my feelings be?

[582] You cannot relate to the poetry.

[583] I don't compare myself to the great poets that I believe are out there right now.

[584] It's certainly not, which is why I feel a little bit of embarrassment.

[585] I don't think I'm that.

[586] Right.

[587] You want to kind of scream from the rooftops.

[588] I wasn't claiming I was.

[589] I wasn't thinking I was this amazing poet.

[590] I genuinely.

[591] I genuinely just wanted to share my heart.

[592] Right.

[593] And isn't it interesting?

[594] Like, if you do it online, you have a blog.

[595] Everything in life is framing.

[596] Everything is the story behind it, right?

[597] So you can do it on your computer.

[598] It's a vlog or, I don't even know what the words.

[599] I'm saying, blog.

[600] Yep.

[601] A plog, a poetry blog.

[602] Oh.

[603] Thank you.

[604] Are there plogs?

[605] I'm sure.

[606] Rob, copyright that immediately.

[607] For whatever reason, that's not going to trigger anyone, really.

[608] I don't think.

[609] No. A lot of people would love to be published.

[610] Yeah, that's why it's jealous.

[611] Yeah, you know, there were people who were saying.

[612] She published a book of poetry because she's famous because she could.

[613] She's not the most talented writer.

[614] Even that is a burn I find always curious.

[615] They did it because they could.

[616] Since when is doing something because you could?

[617] Yes, it's so weird.

[618] Like, they say this about actors who are like in a band.

[619] They're on stage because they're famous and they couldn't.

[620] It's like, yeah, motherfucker.

[621] Everyone wants to be on stage rocking like a rock star if you can.

[622] Monica and I will have this argument about our favorite driver in Formula One.

[623] And she's like, if he's not going to be top tier, I want him to retire.

[624] And I'm like, if you can be in Formula One, stay.

[625] You can keep driving a car for a living.

[626] That's fantastic.

[627] Yeah.

[628] I just don't want him to feel bad about himself.

[629] You're empathic.

[630] Well, or a projector.

[631] Hold on that.

[632] Monica's a two -time state champion cheerleader.

[633] Winner.

[634] Winner, winner, winner, chicken.

[635] She would not want to go compete and finish 10th.

[636] No. But for me, I'd be like, if you get called the state.

[637] Period.

[638] Like, damn.

[639] Party.

[640] That's healthy.

[641] You're right.

[642] Okay.

[643] All right.

[644] I love you.

[645] I said it.

[646] You're right.

[647] And that's the healthy way.

[648] But it's one thing when you first start out.

[649] Of course.

[650] Because he's been great.

[651] Exactly.

[652] Once you have the feeling of everyone praising you and then winning to go the other direction is really hard.

[653] What's tricky about it is if you let when you're being admired from being great, in fact, your identity and your self -esteem, then yes, you should probably retire.

[654] because you're kind of fucked.

[655] You've decided that the interest in you is about winning, which, by the way, that is a large part of it.

[656] Yeah, it's a competitive sport.

[657] But if your identity is driver, then it's the ego.

[658] It's the ego.

[659] It totally is.

[660] But I actually don't think it's possible to get to that level of a sport if you're not there to win.

[661] That is what drives those people.

[662] They're 20 in the whole world.

[663] You don't get there if you're like, I'm just happy to be a driver.

[664] You're right.

[665] Well, I don't want to take up any more time.

[666] Do you have all day?

[667] I have all day.

[668] Okay, great, great, because we love to go long.

[669] I need things to do.

[670] Okay, great.

[671] She doesn't like my favorite driver, Max, for Stappen.

[672] Okay.

[673] But I would argue with you, see, Max is, in my opinion, he's doing it to win, but without any ego.

[674] He doesn't care if he's validated.

[675] He doesn't care if he's validated.

[676] How do you know this?

[677] He doesn't care.

[678] He is a fucking robot to win races.

[679] And it really, it seems to me, at least, insanely pure.

[680] It doesn't seem to really be for anyone's validation but his own.

[681] Now, I'm a validation junkie, so it's not like I'm in judgment of people that are that way.

[682] I honestly think for him, he's got to be.

[683] to be number one.

[684] Yeah, that's not healthy.

[685] Well, I mean, to an extent, but also like, wow, to be in such a ferocious competition with yourself all the time, to not accept defeat.

[686] I agree with you on the blanket statement.

[687] It's not healthy.

[688] In that we acknowledge one can't be a winner for their life.

[689] And if you can only feel good as a winner, you're destined to not feel good.

[690] Yes.

[691] Okay.

[692] So that's one component of it that I agree with you about.

[693] Then there's another reality, And this is a part of, I guess, me being an AA, which is like, there should be some acceptance of who you are.

[694] And so often I think our suffering comes from wishing we were somebody else and then feeling bad that we're not this thing that we've recognized as healthy or good.

[695] Like learning to embrace your character defects a little bit, learning to embrace, yeah, man, I'm this way.

[696] So on the other hand, it's like, I also wouldn't suggest to someone that's hardwired like Max for Stappen is, well, you should know you're in a losing proposition.

[697] Ultimately, you're going to be really sad.

[698] It's like, nope, be you.

[699] And let's learn to mitigate how bad you feel when the inevitable happens maybe.

[700] But don't try to be something you're not.

[701] But then there's also the flip side because I personally have been dealing with the whole concept of you can be who you want to be.

[702] If there is an aspect of yourself that you're not happy with, you can change that.

[703] And that's such a profound thing to me. And I was just on vacation recently in Maui.

[704] Popton at a bowl was staring at the stars, thinking about all the things.

[705] things.

[706] Perfect.

[707] And I was thinking to myself, I genuinely am inclined to be a pessimistic person.

[708] I lean towards glass half empty.

[709] And to me, that's just being a realist.

[710] I'm pessimistic by nature as well.

[711] Are you optimistic for other people?

[712] Because that's a big clue.

[713] If you have a friend, totally comparable situations, they're in a movie.

[714] It's going to open.

[715] Do you have optimism for them?

[716] I'm more willing to be optimistic towards their outcomes, but still in a realistic way.

[717] Sure.

[718] I would say that I have a more hopeful outlook for other people than for myself.

[719] Great.

[720] The truth for me is I would be embarrassed if you heard that I was optimistic and then I was shown to be wrong.

[721] Do you have any of that?

[722] That's not, I don't think my driving force.

[723] It's more so letting myself down.

[724] It's more so getting my own hopes up.

[725] Disappointing myself.

[726] I think this is genuinely what it is.

[727] I guess I'm sort of like, would I rather disappoint myself or other people?

[728] I mean, I can't answer that question.

[729] That's a deep, very trippy metaverse question.

[730] Yeah, yeah.

[731] That's a neither probably.

[732] Pessimism could be a way of your brain trying to regulate your anxiety because anxiety is just not knowing.

[733] Can I ask you guys because you have it?

[734] I don't really suffer from it.

[735] Yeah.

[736] Is it not knowing or is it foreseen every terrible outcome or a combination?

[737] I think it's like clinically the not knowing, but it can come across as dooms.

[738] day like everything could go wrong but that's a result of unbalance unsafety like what's going to happen there's no way to know so maybe the pessimism is if your brain acknowledges well it could be the worst case scenario you're prepared yes so i've very much just this last week going through something personal and have had the worst anxiety to the point where the second i open my eyes a wash of anxiety comes over me. So I have depression and anxiety and I feel that I can handle.

[739] First of all, congratulations.

[740] Thank you.

[741] I feel that I can handle my depression and my sadness.

[742] It's the anxiety that becomes unbearable.

[743] It feels like this engine inside you that's running and there's nowhere for it to go.

[744] And I'm working on this with my therapist.

[745] I have a channeler who I work with.

[746] What's channel or do?

[747] Like a psychic.

[748] I call her my life coach.

[749] I call her my life coach.

[750] because I'm not working this summer.

[751] I am not filming anything.

[752] I am working.

[753] I have my own production company.

[754] I am promoting my film, but I am not actively filming something.

[755] And I have all this time to myself.

[756] And to me, being alone equals loneliness, equals anxiety.

[757] And it's been waking up with, how am I going to fill my time?

[758] Because if it's just me in my house, I'm going to go fucking crazy.

[759] And it's a matter of doing that whole, who am I outside of work?

[760] Yes, of course.

[761] Because I am a workaholic.

[762] And I so have put my identity as being an actor.

[763] That is my identity.

[764] Because it's what fuels my soul, makes me happy.

[765] So what other aspects of life make me happy?

[766] Yeah, you have to find it.

[767] I don't want to be, I'm 25.

[768] I don't want to look back on this time and say, I was just sitting around having anxiety when I could.

[769] have been doing this, this, this, this, and this.

[770] I know that I can be using this time to further enhance just life.

[771] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[772] The story you're writing about Lily, Lily's story.

[773] Right, Lily's story.

[774] You know, under the chapter when you're 90, you're looking back, you're like Lily set at home through her 20s.

[775] Exactly.

[776] Yeah, it's unacceptable.

[777] That's what I'm terrified of.

[778] So I'm adamantly trying to make sure I do not do that, pushing myself to be more social.

[779] One more person that says, go on a hike.

[780] I'm going to kill someone.

[781] It's such an L .A. thing.

[782] Like, take a hike.

[783] No. I'll take a hike if I want to take a hike.

[784] But no. Find new hobbies.

[785] Please stop.

[786] Don't tell me that.

[787] Are you open to an internship?

[788] I honestly texted someone that I, a filmmaker that I just met recently.

[789] And I'm like, do you need an assistant?

[790] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[791] Can I come visit you on set while you're filming a movie just where I can do something?

[792] Yeah.

[793] But we need all kinds of shit around here.

[794] We did not want to pay much for that.

[795] No, I'll do it for free.

[796] Also, is it 65 degrees in here?

[797] See?

[798] Okay, okay.

[799] Let me hold on.

[800] Thank you for saying that.

[801] I'm usually, I run hot.

[802] You do.

[803] I really do.

[804] So I appreciate, oh, a little fleece.

[805] Oh, you're going to give out sweaters.

[806] This is nice.

[807] What's it say?

[808] This is a Ricardo one.

[809] Oh, I'm just going to put it over my headphones on.

[810] Okay.

[811] Oh, that's a cute crew.

[812] You're going to help me. Thank you.

[813] Wow.

[814] Oh, my gosh.

[815] We should start giving out sweaters.

[816] Danny's sweaters?

[817] What does it say?

[818] What does it say?

[819] Oh, no, that's the one that Ricky brought up.

[820] Oh, I was like, that's Danny's.

[821] It's talks about carpet.

[822] I'm dad's carpet company.

[823] Happy to be wrapping it.

[824] It looks cute on you.

[825] But there is Ricardo.

[826] Stop here.

[827] If you want shorts, I mean, I think I'm good leg -wise.

[828] We'll have to have them send us some sweats.

[829] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[830] We've all been there.

[831] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[832] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[833] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter.

[834] whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[835] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[836] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[837] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[838] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[839] Prime members can listen early and ad -free on Amazon Music.

[840] guys, it's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season, and let me tell you, it's too good, and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[841] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation, and I don't mean just friends, I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[842] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[843] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app, or wherever you get your podcast.

[844] Okay, we just had a guest on an expert.

[845] I don't have it at a crippling level.

[846] Mine always manifests itself at night.

[847] I can't sleep well.

[848] And I'm ruminating on these things, generally whatever the dream was about.

[849] But if I sit with it long enough and it happens for a few days in a row and I dedicate the time to it, I can chase it to what I'm actually anxious about.

[850] That's the hard part for me is like, it's just a feeling.

[851] I got to do some real exploration.

[852] Yesterday I woke up with anxiety and I sat outside with my journal because lately I wake up, I fill like five pages of my journal.

[853] And I chose to say, this is a phrase that you use in therapy or whatever.

[854] Let's be curious about the feeling.

[855] Yeah, yeah.

[856] And let's actually sit and be curious about what the anxiety is coming from, what the anxiety is.

[857] Is it even mine?

[858] The answer was absolutely yes, but being curious about it, not judging it.

[859] Right now I'm going through something in my life where the anxiety is heightened.

[860] It won't always be that way.

[861] But right now, let's be curious about where it actually is coming from because I'm a very logical person when it comes to my mental health with breakups.

[862] with death, like, I need to figure out, like, a logical way of looking at things in order to process, in order to move on.

[863] So I'm sitting there going, well, let's problem solve this and figure out what it is exactly that's causing the anxiety.

[864] And it genuinely came down to me being afraid of being bored.

[865] I don't know how to sit in stillness with myself.

[866] Are you an adrenaline junkie at all?

[867] No. Are you a love addict at all?

[868] You know, there was a point two years ago I was looking into slaw.

[869] Yeah, yeah, yeah, sex and love, anonymous, whatever it is.

[870] I didn't end up doing that.

[871] You're 25, it's like, how much wreckage and pattern could you even have at this point?

[872] Well, I think a lot, but I don't think I'm an addict.

[873] I think I just love very deeply and very hard.

[874] I know the degree in which I give my heart is on the extreme side.

[875] Extreme in the, no boundaries you lose yourself?

[876] No, I don't because I have learned to be independent, not be attached, the healthy things.

[877] but I do give so much and I sacrifice a lot to the point where I have to take a step back and go, oh, was I actually receiving what I needed or was I just so focused on giving that I wasn't even tuning into myself thinking, are you actually like good and happy in this or are you just so concerned with making the other person happy?

[878] Do you think you're at all prone to be a codependent?

[879] Are you attracted to addicts?

[880] Not anymore.

[881] I am very strong -willed and very much set on being an independent woman going into relationships.

[882] Right.

[883] I think I used to be for sure.

[884] And I fed into like an empath.

[885] Well, it's a nice match for people with anxiety because now all your focus goes on to that person.

[886] And weirdly, their problems are very visible to you and very attackable to you.

[887] Something I was exploring was not taking responsibility for someone else's shit, which felt great.

[888] But in turn was still ignoring my own.

[889] basic needs.

[890] Yeah.

[891] When you said being alone leads to loneliness, I mean, I can super, super relate to that.

[892] I feel like it's such an important thing for people to unlink those two things.

[893] I fully agree.

[894] Because they are really not the same thing.

[895] Very different.

[896] Very different.

[897] You can be so lonely in a relationship, in a marriage.

[898] And you can be alone and very happy and very content.

[899] But of course, we do that.

[900] We put those two things together and then it can make you spiral out.

[901] But they're really not the same.

[902] No, they're not.

[903] They're not.

[904] They're not.

[905] So it's learning.

[906] Yeah.

[907] Reminding yourself of that.

[908] I could be in a relationship and still feel this way.

[909] Okay.

[910] I want to get into some of the juicy parts.

[911] You got a pilot at 14.

[912] 12.

[913] At 12.

[914] It didn't go anywhere.

[915] I was just a pilot.

[916] Wikipedia was wrong.

[917] And I must listen to the source.

[918] 12, you got a pilot.

[919] And were you at the Oakwood Apartments?

[920] No. No, no. You didn't ever stay there.

[921] I never stay there.

[922] Too expensive.

[923] I started in Cleveland.

[924] My mom would drive me eight hours from Ohio.

[925] to New York for auditions.

[926] On the 90 -94 toll road through Pennsylvania.

[927] I wouldn't know, but my dad would let us use his hotel points from work.

[928] Okay.

[929] I need to really ask them why they did that for me and had faith in me because they weren't pushing me in this at all.

[930] I think they just saw my passion and said, damn, we're going to let her just go with it.

[931] See, you know, we'll see what's the worst that could happen.

[932] And they were being told, hey, your daughter's actually pretty good at this.

[933] And I think they were encouraged.

[934] And so I'm very thankful, obviously, that they put the time and effort into helping me. But I came out for a pilot season when I was 16.

[935] I stayed with genuinely someone I didn't really know very well through an acting coach.

[936] She was in her 20s.

[937] We paid her to basically babysit me for a month while I stayed.

[938] I crashed in her bed.

[939] Like, this was a studio apartment.

[940] Well, she was in the bed as well?

[941] Yeah, she was in the bed.

[942] Okay.

[943] So a little bit of a Mike Jackson situation.

[944] Okay.

[945] But luckily, it sounds like nothing bad.

[946] Right, it wasn't that bad.

[947] And then I was a series regular on a, or no, I was a guest star, but I ended up doing almost all the episodes when I was 16.

[948] It was a local hire.

[949] I was making no money.

[950] I had to put myself up at this stupidly expensive Airbnb in Studio City.

[951] So I was making this money, immediately spending it on rent.

[952] I bet Airbnb has changed the whole thing.

[953] Back in the day, you couldn't get like a two -month rental anywhere.

[954] No. All of the Oakwoods.

[955] Right.

[956] That's where they step in.

[957] So Airbnb changed the game.

[958] It changed the game.

[959] Okay.

[960] Any boyfriends in high school?

[961] Yeah.

[962] I had my high school sweetheart, 16 to 19.

[963] But you left Cleveland at 16?

[964] So we were in a long -distance relationship.

[965] From Cleveland?

[966] From Cleveland.

[967] Oh my God, that's stressful.

[968] And you're going to school online on a computer.

[969] And you're self -tapping.

[970] There's not a lot of interpersonal, real -life 3 -D stuff.

[971] No, but I would go back to Cleveland once a month or we don't have no money but try to fly myself there.

[972] Get some of those points off your dad.

[973] Yeah, truly.

[974] Rock up those points.

[975] Spend the summers in Cleveland with the boyfriend.

[976] When I moved to L .A., he was supposed to come with me, broke the news to me after I signed my lease for the two of us that he wasn't coming, had a panic attack full -blown, called my therapist, said, he's abandoning me. And they had the full breakdown, ended up being, you know, perfectly fine decision.

[977] So you moved to L .A. at 18?

[978] Was that part right?

[979] I moved at 18.

[980] I was here for five months, so miserable.

[981] I had no one here.

[982] No family, no friends was staying in downtown Burbank.

[983] I was sharing a three -bedroom apartment with this woman and her son and then a woman in her daughter.

[984] This woman and her son out of a nightmare, genuinely out of a nightmare.

[985] I have this woman's phone number still and I'm like, what can I do with this information?

[986] Yeah, tell me what version of psycho she was.

[987] I mean, it was the most passive aggressive.

[988] Lily, there's been a fork in the sink for five hours.

[989] I believe it's yours.

[990] Oh, wow, okay.

[991] That kind of situation.

[992] And it doesn't sound that bad, but it really was.

[993] Yes.

[994] She had two dogs that she would never let out of the apartment.

[995] I'm like, these dogs are shitting and pissing themselves in her bathroom.

[996] I was like, do I need to call Animal Control?

[997] Oh, my God.

[998] I would hear her running lines with her son at night in the way that she talked to her son.

[999] How old was the son?

[1000] He was like 12.

[1001] I got out of there.

[1002] Did you find it on Craigslist?

[1003] My mom and I found it through a blog, like this Hollywood mom blog or something, ended up moving to a beautiful Spanish -style house in the hills at the bottom of the hills.

[1004] I had one room.

[1005] I shared a bathroom with like five people.

[1006] I basically sat around in my room all day waiting for auditions.

[1007] I got so depressed that I became physically ill while sharing a bathroom with six people.

[1008] Like I was throwing up every night from pure anxiety.

[1009] Wow.

[1010] I was like, I don't have money.

[1011] I need to make money.

[1012] I'm not really booking anything.

[1013] I got a job at Bucca de Bepo in Universal Studios.

[1014] I love Bucco de Bepo.

[1015] What a blast.

[1016] The Pope room, the private room with the Pope on the table that spins.

[1017] Bucco de Bepo.

[1018] I've had a birthday party there.

[1019] I had the one in Santa Monica has one.

[1020] Like a statue of a Pope?

[1021] He has like his heads on a thing.

[1022] Is this, does this ring in a bell a little?

[1023] I didn't end up working there.

[1024] Oh, darn it.

[1025] So I got a host.

[1026] I got a hostess position.

[1027] and they said, you need a black button -down shirt and some like non -slip shoes.

[1028] I said, okay.

[1029] Non -slip shoes, so specific.

[1030] It really is.

[1031] I didn't have a car.

[1032] So I was Ubering everywhere.

[1033] So I said, okay, there was a Skechers in Universal City.

[1034] I said, great, get the shoes.

[1035] They're like $80.

[1036] Again, don't have any money, but I got to get these shoes.

[1037] Got the shoes.

[1038] Have to find a black button -down shirt.

[1039] So I'm taking an Uber to Target.

[1040] I'm taking an Uber to Ross.

[1041] I'm taking an Uber to Marshall's.

[1042] I cannot find a buttoned -down black shirt for the life of me. I'm starting to have a panic attack.

[1043] I'm Ubering back towards my house.

[1044] I throw up in the Uber from how stressed I am.

[1045] Oh, my God.

[1046] Did he give you a bad rating?

[1047] I think he really did.

[1048] I think he fucked my rating for sure.

[1049] And he kind of deserved it.

[1050] I threw up very silently in my Skechers bag.

[1051] Oh, you did.

[1052] Yeah.

[1053] I got home.

[1054] Home, in quotes.

[1055] I got to my room.

[1056] I Skyped my mom.

[1057] I said, I need to come home.

[1058] I'm not okay.

[1059] Yeah.

[1060] I don't have money.

[1061] I clearly can't have.

[1062] a job here because my anxiety is so bad, I need to come out.

[1063] And my parents were, okay, you can come out.

[1064] You know, they weren't ever, you're banished.

[1065] So I went home, went back to therapy, went back to my job at Pier 1 Imports, where I was a sales associate with the only job that didn't give me anxiety.

[1066] I mean, still give me anxiety, but it was the one that I could hold down.

[1067] Um, at the time.

[1068] I mean, look, you're not wrong.

[1069] Listen, there's one in the corner here.

[1070] Like, prime time real estate right by the 7 .11, I go to.

[1071] And I literally, it's still in business.

[1072] No, I don't think so.

[1073] I don't think so.

[1074] Okay, but I've been here for a decade or whatever 20 years.

[1075] It was there.

[1076] Yeah, it was.

[1077] And I constantly was like, oh, it's shut down because I didn't ever see a fucking car in the parking lot.

[1078] And then my wife came home with something from here.

[1079] I'm like, that place is open.

[1080] Okay.

[1081] It's okay.

[1082] Yeah, rest and peace, Pier 1.

[1083] But a great place to be in customer relations if you don't want to deal with customers.

[1084] I was in the back a lot, breaking down boxes.

[1085] Okay.

[1086] Literally, because I had such crippling anxiety, I worked like three shifts a week basically made $1 ,400 in six months like nothing I said covered your Uber bill from that one shopping trip yeah I was like I'm moving back to LA I'm gonna get a job there moved back to LA January of that following year I was 19 and a month later I booked Riverdale wow life is so precarious because who knows how many more months you could have stuck it out genuinely you just don't know in these stories what changed what did the therapist give you in that time that made you feel okay about going back i think i knew when i left that i was already going to come back i didn't give myself the option there has never been a plan b i mean maybe for two seconds when i thought maybe i could be a paramedic i didn't go to college you know i got my fucking high school degree online yeah yeah questionable i'm not even sure if it's real genuinely it's like my ministership i just knew that i had to obviously keep taking these chances on myself i just needed to make it work and i went back out there so riverdale is a cultural phenomena i can only compare it to the things that i was super interested in yeah yeah party of five we're not there not not quite like 90210 yeah no two no yeah melrose place okay large young fan base.

[1087] Veronica Mars is some degree.

[1088] Of course.

[1089] The Mars.

[1090] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1091] The Ronster.

[1092] I'm an old man. So I didn't see it, but I have this notion of it.

[1093] And it definitely permeated the culture in the fact that I certainly know what it is.

[1094] But today, when I was learning about you, I did not understand why it's based on the Archie comic books.

[1095] You didn't understand why?

[1096] Well, I think I know what Archie comic books were.

[1097] Like, I think they were at Big Boys where I used to eat.

[1098] When I think of making a show or a movie out of a comic book, I think superheroes.

[1099] Me too.

[1100] When I first got the audition, I thought I'm reading the pilot going, where are their superpowers?

[1101] Right.

[1102] Ironically, in this last season, our characters developed superpowers.

[1103] Wonderful.

[1104] Just in time for the last season seven.

[1105] Okay, so I remember it being at big boys when I would eat there as a kid and they had Archie comics.

[1106] I mean, they have Archie comics in like the checkout line for the grocery store.

[1107] There's Archie, like, there's like a jalopy.

[1108] Yeah, they have a jalopy.

[1109] That's from, no, Jughead.

[1110] You're thinking Jughead.

[1111] And Jughead is in that.

[1112] But they do have like a jalopy as a car that we've had in the show.

[1113] I don't know the history of the jalopy in Archie Comics.

[1114] Do we think they made up the word jalopy?

[1115] Because that's a very common name in the automotive world.

[1116] And there's even a tremendous online media site for automobiles called jalapnik.

[1117] That's based off of jalopy.

[1118] Okay.

[1119] When you get the show, your expectations are what?

[1120] I didn't have expectations.

[1121] I sure as hell hoped to God that it took off just so I could be a working actress, but I really didn't know what it was going to be.

[1122] I loved the pilot.

[1123] I thought it was a really beautiful idea for a show.

[1124] It was fun.

[1125] I loved the people that I was filming with, and it was all just very exciting and the unknown, but an exciting unknown.

[1126] But I have to imagine that even when you were modeling out best case scenario, like maybe this thing will run for a few years, and I'll have a steady paycheck and some insurance.

[1127] I doubt you let in the notion of I'm going to be really famous in a minute.

[1128] And you know, I still do not consider myself.

[1129] But to my knowledge, you have 28 million followers on Instagram.

[1130] Yeah, but to me that doesn't equal fame.

[1131] Why not?

[1132] Interesting.

[1133] I don't know.

[1134] I just...

[1135] What is fame then?

[1136] Even if you're in your worst, most pessimistic state of mind, how many people are accidentally following you that they think they're following Lily Tomlin or something?

[1137] To me, it's not even real.

[1138] Well, that's healthy of you.

[1139] But there is like an anatomic reality to life, which is 28 million people.

[1140] But I think half of, you know, I think there's a lot of, how many do you think are bots?

[1141] Millions.

[1142] Millions?

[1143] I mean, maybe.

[1144] Okay, let's say, let's say even one million are bots.

[1145] That's still 27 million people.

[1146] And then a couple Lily Tomlins, 26 million.

[1147] Some of the most famous people have very shit Instagram followings.

[1148] So listen, I agree with you.

[1149] And I always make this argument to Monica.

[1150] We get in fights about it and I'm on your side of the argument.

[1151] But for the sake of this now, I'm going to be on her side of this argument.

[1152] There's a lot of people on Earth who want to know what you're doing.

[1153] That's what Instagram is.

[1154] Kate Winslet, she's one of the most famous actresses of all time.

[1155] She's not going to have that kind of following because I'm not sure everyone's interested in what she's doing every day.

[1156] They want to see her movies.

[1157] They want to do that.

[1158] But fame is like, I want to see her on the street.

[1159] I want to see what she's wearing today.

[1160] And you have that.

[1161] I think fame to me is more having the respect of your peers.

[1162] That's success and notoriety.

[1163] I guess that's not even true because I know there's people who are mega famous that aren't talented.

[1164] Yeah.

[1165] Yeah.

[1166] And then there's some hybrid of both.

[1167] You've got like Leonardo DiCaprio.

[1168] He's got both.

[1169] Everyone thinks he's great.

[1170] Annie's worldwide sensation.

[1171] But yeah, I would say your choice would be cachet.

[1172] You would like to know that Sean Penn's at home going like, my God.

[1173] What's Lily Reinhart?

[1174] This scale blew my mind in this.

[1175] Of course.

[1176] We would trade that.

[1177] Yes, we would trade that.

[1178] But again, that's ego too, right?

[1179] We'd have to admit I had this enormous chip on my shoulder because I got famous on a show called punked.

[1180] And it was a reality show, which meant I wasn't an actor in my mind.

[1181] And every interview I did, I had this chip on my shoulder.

[1182] And when they would suggest I wasn't an actor, it was a huge thing.

[1183] And I really just want to distance myself from the whole thing.

[1184] It's literally not until now 20 years later, I'm like, that was great.

[1185] I was in this cultural phenomena.

[1186] It changed the lexicon.

[1187] How fucking cool.

[1188] And I had nothing to go with.

[1189] It was literally go.

[1190] And we made a show on the spot.

[1191] But I'm talking 20 years later and a lot of validation.

[1192] You're right.

[1193] Is there, was there a party that's like, I'm known because I have a show on the CW.

[1194] There is a negative connotation that comes with that.

[1195] I do feel at this point that I have a lot to prove.

[1196] I am the first person to say that my show has given me what I have.

[1197] I have a huge fan base.

[1198] I have a home.

[1199] I am financially stable.

[1200] I fully recognize that my show has led me to where I stand now.

[1201] I know it's a wild success.

[1202] I know that people knew Veronica Camars was a show that was on multiple years because there were billboards.

[1203] Was it a teen sleuthing thing?

[1204] You know, on her worst day, maybe she thought so.

[1205] Was punked a stupid reality show?

[1206] Some people thought that.

[1207] Some people were just like, oh, that dude was on something that broke out.

[1208] So he might have something.

[1209] Your peers think you've had success, which is almost impossible to have in our business.

[1210] And that is cachet.

[1211] I will defend Riverdale because of what it means to me for all of us as a cast who spent almost our whole lives in Vancouver filming it.

[1212] Yeah, of course.

[1213] You've been up in Vancouver for six years, huh?

[1214] I have.

[1215] Oh, man. Beautiful city.

[1216] But we like Southern California, don't we?

[1217] We do.

[1218] I enjoy my home here.

[1219] And again, it's a lovely, lovely place.

[1220] But I imagine you can feel like you're just pushing pause on your life for nine months because it's not where you live.

[1221] It's not where I live.

[1222] I have no family there.

[1223] You hate Canadians.

[1224] I fucking hate them.

[1225] That's the headline.

[1226] Yeah.

[1227] It is pressing pause on all the other aspects of my life while I'm there.

[1228] So it has not been easy.

[1229] It has not been an easy six years.

[1230] I think people know that.

[1231] I'm very excited to see what my life looks like after.

[1232] When do you start back up for season seven?

[1233] October.

[1234] How many episodes of year do you guys do?

[1235] We do 22.

[1236] Oh, maybe.

[1237] People don't even do that anymore.

[1238] No, they don't.

[1239] 22 episodes is the last of its kind.

[1240] No one's doing that.

[1241] It's horrible.

[1242] It's unsustainable.

[1243] Yes.

[1244] The last thing I wanted to talk to you about, because I relate deeply to it.

[1245] I heard you talking.

[1246] It was at some kind of cosmopolitan something.

[1247] You had that incredible earpiece microphone.

[1248] Glamour.

[1249] There we go.

[1250] It was like a TED Talk microphone.

[1251] It was.

[1252] It was intimidating.

[1253] Yeah.

[1254] I would have been intimidated.

[1255] Okay, so I relate to body dysmorphia.

[1256] I so relate to checking in with a mirror a couple dozen times a day to see what's happening on a micro level what's happened in the last two hours that's made my body change it's madness my whole life i've done that and can't see myself and i also relate deeply to not feeling like you're allowed to be honest about that because you're objectively attractive by a lot of standards they don't make people leads of tv shows generally that you can't look at and then i'll also just point out not to throw them under the bus but mickey roark who is one of my favorite actors growing up be such a fucking powerhouse and objectively one of the most gorgeous guys to ever be on film completely augmented his face i only point that up to say you can be as gorgeous as one can be and hate how you look it doesn't bear any relationship to reality whatsoever we're all insecure as shit yes genuinely i don't know if there exists a person who just isn't insecure he told it on here so i don't feel bad repeating it but bradley cooper when he got sexiest man of the year truly believed It was a bit.

[1257] He just couldn't accept it.

[1258] They're fucking with me. He says, and maybe he did see that the Today Show was going like, are you kidding?

[1259] What?

[1260] This isn't right.

[1261] It's madness.

[1262] It is.

[1263] Yeah.

[1264] Have you made any headway with it?

[1265] Oh, man. The last six months have been actually the worst of it.

[1266] Oh, it has.

[1267] Yeah.

[1268] It took a very large turn for the worst to where I was started to be a disordered eating thing.

[1269] Okay.

[1270] Do you know what kicked it off?

[1271] Are you clear on what kicked it off?

[1272] I started to gain weight.

[1273] just because you were pregnant because I was pregnant no I just that's the head I just started to gain weight naturally I was eating like shit like it just naturally started to happen I was reaching an age where your body was like you can't do that anymore yeah yeah so normal we're not burning at 3x right and so it felt like I couldn't get a handle on it I was also simultaneously filming my show so I couldn't take a pause and go figure this out and then come back to it.

[1274] So it felt like I was going through this deeply personal thing with my body in a very public way.

[1275] And that was what was so hard to navigate.

[1276] I was going through these obsessive thoughts about my body, about what I was eating, about all these things.

[1277] And I couldn't do it in the privacy of my own home.

[1278] I had people staring at me. I would just feel awful about myself after a fitting.

[1279] I would text my mom immediately.

[1280] I was seeing a trainer.

[1281] I was trying to eat better.

[1282] I was doing everything I could.

[1283] It was obsessive.

[1284] But it also just felt really sad that I couldn't just step away and take care of myself.

[1285] I had to keep showing up on camera.

[1286] And it felt like a big betrayal to my body almost to be like, I'm so sorry we can't go through this journey in private.

[1287] And as an actor, no one should ever have to look at yourself as much as we do.

[1288] There comes a point Or people come in to do less looks, touches, whatever.

[1289] I'm like, I don't want to look at myself again.

[1290] Thank you.

[1291] You tell me if there's some shit on my face, wipe it off.

[1292] I don't need to stare at my face 30 times a day.

[1293] No one should have to do that.

[1294] And then same with your body.

[1295] Yeah.

[1296] Is it for you more your body or your face?

[1297] It's my body.

[1298] I don't have a perfect C .W. girl body.

[1299] I grew up in the time of Gossip Girl where Layton Meester and Blake Lively have these beautiful, perfect bodies.

[1300] I've just never had that not built that way.

[1301] and was trying to craft myself and fit myself into a box that genetically I wasn't inclined to be in.

[1302] Uh -huh.

[1303] So it's been hard, but that's why I talk about it and I'm vocal about it because I think it's so weird that not as many celebrities talk about it.

[1304] It's such an issue because everyone is insecure.

[1305] Oh, yeah.

[1306] How is there not a more collective conversation, especially within the industry and industry that's so obsessed with being thin, having this ass, having whatever it is.

[1307] So I just try to chuck my opinion out there if people want to listen to it, whatever.

[1308] It gets me in hot water a lot of times.

[1309] When has it gotten you in hot water?

[1310] Recently made some comments about how it's ridiculous to say that you should lose 16 pounds to fit into a dress for the Met Gala.

[1311] And I thought that that was absolutely ridiculous.

[1312] I thought that absolutely promotes disordered eating.

[1313] And the conversation was, how can you say?

[1314] that when Christian Bale loses 30 pounds for a film.

[1315] I'm like, did I say that that was okay either?

[1316] Right.

[1317] The flip side is you can do whatever you want with your body, but you have to be aware of the amount of people you're affecting when you open your mouth.

[1318] Okay, great.

[1319] Or somewhere juicy, because I think this is where you and I differ a little bit.

[1320] So I have all these same things.

[1321] Yeah.

[1322] And I'm going to parallel with alcoholism.

[1323] I'm an addict.

[1324] Dak Shepard can't take three hits of ecstasy and go to the Gallagall.

[1325] Because then I'll do 18 and then I'll find Coke and then I'll do a bottle.

[1326] blah, blah, blah.

[1327] But I would read these interviews with Colin Farrell, who I idolize as an actor.

[1328] He's so gorgeous, too, on top of it.

[1329] Let's say that if I had his face, I'm certain I would like what I saw in the mirror.

[1330] And he would talk all the time about how many drugs he did in interviews.

[1331] And so my takeaway was this.

[1332] I like that this dude's honest, A. B, he's not telling me to do that.

[1333] Sure.

[1334] I'm the one who can't do that.

[1335] And I don't know if that person who said they're going to lose 16 pounds to fit in a dress can do that in a healthy way.

[1336] I don't know because I don't know that person.

[1337] I call.

[1338] Or are you conant?

[1339] And I do understand that aspect.

[1340] Again, they're allowed to do whatever.

[1341] Like, good for them for being honest about what they're doing.

[1342] They're not ashamed of what they're doing.

[1343] Here's what I think is important.

[1344] To draw a distinction between someone who has a problem and who doesn't.

[1345] Now, if I saw an admitted addict say in a press line like, no, I'm drinking three tonight and it's going to be fine, I would go, I doubt it.

[1346] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1347] Like, as someone who said they're an addict and I'm an addict too, I will call bullshit on that all day long.

[1348] To me, it's more so the influence that you have on other people.

[1349] But again, how do I articulate this?

[1350] It's such a touchy.

[1351] It is.

[1352] Yeah.

[1353] And we're all figuring it out, which is great.

[1354] Which is why we're having this conversation.

[1355] There should be more conversations about it.

[1356] Yeah.

[1357] Here's my issue.

[1358] I don't think it's incumbent upon a dude who twice a month do opiates at a party, who actually does it moderately.

[1359] I don't think it's his responsibility to pretend he doesn't do that at any point in an interview with his friends because someone else like me can't do opiates once a month at a party because if I do opiates once a month at a party, I'll do them for months at a time until I'm detoxing.

[1360] I don't think it's that guy's problem or his responsibility to take on my disease.

[1361] So in that way, because there's so much criticism, if people even say they were on a diet on this show, some people go, you're fat shaming.

[1362] Yeah.

[1363] And I'm like, I don't know, man. Some people do diets and they work for them and they don't get obsessive.

[1364] I'm totally obsessive about stuff.

[1365] Yeah.

[1366] But they're not.

[1367] And I don't know it's their responsibility to protect me from my ism.

[1368] I think it's my responsibility to protect me. You're absolutely right.

[1369] I was currently dealing with disordered eating.

[1370] And I was, I saw red.

[1371] Like, I genuinely thought this is so triggering.

[1372] Yeah.

[1373] It felt like it was normalizing disordered eating to say that I'm starving.

[1374] Genuinely, those words were said, I'm starving.

[1375] For what?

[1376] You know, that was where.

[1377] But again, the argument can be made both ways.

[1378] It was genuinely driven.

[1379] I posted and made my comments out of a moment where I was purely triggered.

[1380] Yeah, totally.

[1381] Yeah.

[1382] By the way, me even trying to delineate our differences, the big headline of what I'm saying is I love that you talk about it.

[1383] I'm so happy you talk about it.

[1384] I have two daughters.

[1385] I'm grateful to you that you talk about it.

[1386] Thanks.

[1387] Also, it's taking me this whole interview.

[1388] There's always a point in the interview where I figure out who I think you look like.

[1389] Brittany Murphy.

[1390] Nope.

[1391] Oh, that's who I thought.

[1392] I knew you.

[1393] Okay.

[1394] Whoa, whoa, whoa.

[1395] Wait, you're ready for this.

[1396] Is it Kaylee Cuoco?

[1397] Okay.

[1398] I've never gotten that one.

[1399] He missed for Kaylee Cuoco.

[1400] A bit of Ashley.

[1401] My hero?

[1402] Your hero.

[1403] Wait, Ashley Olson?

[1404] Yeah, from the Olson twins.

[1405] Well, right.

[1406] Yeah, the Olson twins.

[1407] Ashley Olson.

[1408] I grew up with Ashley Delors.

[1409] Yes, Mary and Ashley Olson.

[1410] Talk about some gales who had something to prove and did it.

[1411] I'm very flattered.

[1412] Real quick.

[1413] Back to the thing.

[1414] I really like that person.

[1415] We have interviewed her for the show that Kristen and I did.

[1416] But her product is her, literally her body.

[1417] Even her company, the stuff she sells is about that.

[1418] So it's not just like she's an actor and people are deciding they want to be like her.

[1419] That's part of the brand is be like me. And she's had a major effect on the whole world.

[1420] Literally the culture, the whole world.

[1421] Good for her for that.

[1422] Unfortunately, when you have that.

[1423] kind of power.

[1424] There is a responsibility.

[1425] There is.

[1426] I'm with you on that.

[1427] I think you have to know your place in society and the damage you could cause.

[1428] And I like her a lot.

[1429] Then what's the move?

[1430] Okay, so she's in this dress.

[1431] People are like, oh, you look so great in that dress.

[1432] Maybe just leave out the part where you lost 60s.

[1433] She's also getting picked up.

[1434] That you're starving, I think.

[1435] Yeah, that's the key word.

[1436] That's the word.

[1437] Okay.

[1438] And then with her friends, she can be as honest, because she should be honest with her friends, what she did, I suppose.

[1439] She could be honest to say, like, I felt like, I felt like I had to lose a lot of weight to be in this threat.

[1440] Like, I think there are things you can say that are acknowledging what's going on.

[1441] And that was really hard on yikes.

[1442] Like, yikes should maybe be in the - Okay, add the word.

[1443] Yeah.

[1444] I'm going to write her script.

[1445] Yeah.

[1446] It's not telling the whole story.

[1447] Are you bummed?

[1448] We were talking about that?

[1449] Not at all.

[1450] Okay, good.

[1451] No, no, no. Okay, great.

[1452] I'm open to, like, continuing the conversation.

[1453] I deeply adore you.

[1454] It's already happened.

[1455] You're just lovely and honest.

[1456] It's really wonderful.

[1457] I'm sorry you got flack for that.

[1458] It was rough.

[1459] It's hard.

[1460] You have to not look at Twitter for a couple days.

[1461] I quit Twitter.

[1462] Just quit it.

[1463] That's how I get my news.

[1464] Isn't that sad?

[1465] Maybe you move to a different.

[1466] New York Times subscription has done well for me. Will you pay for that for me?

[1467] Because for some reason, I won't pay for a New York Times.

[1468] Like I won't pay $4 to run a movie because I'm like, nah.

[1469] Yeah.

[1470] My relationship with money is the most confusing thing.

[1471] If you were witnessing it from the outside, I will go on these trips and I will rent two houses for all of our friends and I'll pay for all the meals.

[1472] I will desperately want a subscription to the New York Times and I'll deny myself it.

[1473] I will want to subscribe to an app to watch a show I want.

[1474] Can't do it.

[1475] I'll forget to quit it.

[1476] I'll forget to unsubscribe.

[1477] And I literally go like, if I have this app for the next 12 years, it wouldn't be the dinner.

[1478] pay for everyone?

[1479] What is going on?

[1480] I know.

[1481] I'm exactly the same way.

[1482] I will become broke if I pay for peacock.

[1483] Yes.

[1484] Great example.

[1485] That's what's going to tip me over the edge.

[1486] Stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare.

[1487] Okay, let's talk about your new movie look both ways.

[1488] Will you tell me about the woman who directed it?

[1489] Because she's an important director.

[1490] What's her story?

[1491] She's like an African director.

[1492] Yeah, I believe she was in Kenya.

[1493] When we first were meeting about the project, our Zooms were at like 8 p .m. my time, which I didn't mind at all.

[1494] But she's a filmmaker.

[1495] Right.

[1496] She's been nominated.

[1497] She's a respected woman in the industry.

[1498] And to have a woman like her come on to what generally is seen as a rom -com was like, wow, we're really going to make something here.

[1499] Yeah.

[1500] And so we were very honored to have her.

[1501] And I so.

[1502] loved working with her.

[1503] We filmed in Austin for the most part.

[1504] COVID wasn't bad at that point, so we went out on the weekend.

[1505] I'm not a night owl, but I was staying out until the sun came up.

[1506] And then some.

[1507] It was so fun.

[1508] Just had the best time.

[1509] Rented a boat.

[1510] Did you go by a little place called Hippie Hallow where it's nude sunbathings?

[1511] No, but I went to a nude beach in Maui, and that was such an adventure.

[1512] Maui's dangerous because there's a lot of paparazzi there.

[1513] I was very conscious of this.

[1514] I was like, I am not going to be naked.

[1515] I took my top off for like a second.

[1516] And then I was like, I'm a parent.

[1517] But this man on the beach, fully naked 70 -year -old man, all the people on nude beaches are old.

[1518] A very old naked man kneeling, spread eagle in front of me trying to say, like, we're trying to save this beach.

[1519] The police come and shut it down on the weekends.

[1520] But he is just fully kneeling, like his ass is spread.

[1521] Oh, wow.

[1522] Oh, my gosh.

[1523] An an anus.

[1524] And I had my sunglasses on, but you can.

[1525] bed every two seconds.

[1526] I was glaring down at his 70 -year -old penis in front of my face.

[1527] Yeah, they get saggy.

[1528] And I truly said, this is a moment I'll never forget.

[1529] Yeah, and that's true.

[1530] So I wish I had that experience in Austin, regardless, still had the best time.

[1531] Okay, so you get down there, and the movie is about, weirdly enough, we're doing a podcast that's a little bit similar in concepts.

[1532] So there's a night, is it your graduation night?

[1533] Graduation night.

[1534] And we play out two paths of your life really quick i'm of the opinion if you asked everybody like what year in school did you figure out who you were and then further into that i would say like what year did you stop acting out the story that you were given and started writing your own story this is a very fun question for me i love the idea of this i have my story mine seventh grade do you have a year where you're like i'm now writing the story of lily's life i feel like i'm doing that right now if you want to look at it from when I was 12.

[1535] And you can change the story.

[1536] That's fun.

[1537] Sure.

[1538] And that's because I was choosing to pursue this thing at a very young age.

[1539] But right now on a more philosophical, emotional, who am I as a human level, I feel I'm at this road where I'm like, I'm going to figure out who I am outside of being an actor.

[1540] Right.

[1541] I hate to say this to you.

[1542] Let's acknowledge a societal pressure on women to have kids.

[1543] Let's also say, as someone that has wrestled with all the things you've brought up today one act cured all of it for me virtually cured all of it for me which is having a kid and then finally going like oh thank god meeting your person um no no it didn't cure the existential crises of identity for me i know i was scared to let go of all my selfish desires but just prioritizing one thing in life beyond dax's story was a huge relief for me i've been thinking like do i need to have a kid to give me something to do this summer I mean, the answer is no. I'm going to say no. Do I need to just pop one out?

[1544] Just to give me purpose.

[1545] Sure, sure.

[1546] By the way, I always used to be so critical of people, I'd be like, another human doesn't give you purpose.

[1547] From my own experience, just caring about something more than Dax was helpful.

[1548] That's still there, but it's been right -sized a bit.

[1549] Yeah, that sounds nice.

[1550] Okay, so a moment in time where we explore two different outcomes, and they're diametrically opposed in this.

[1551] One gal moves to Los Angeles, another gal has ding, ding, ding, ding, a child.

[1552] Yes.

[1553] So on the night of her graduation, Natalie takes a pregnancy test, and that's where we split off into two realities, one in which she's pregnant, one in which she's not.

[1554] So we follow the journeys of her life as they play out with those two different test results.

[1555] Oh, interesting.

[1556] One where she goes to L .A. to pursue a career in animation, and one where she now has to be a young mother while also trying to navigate still wanting to pursue a career man. A single mother or with a boy?

[1557] She is raising the child with the baby daddy and navigating their feelings for each other.

[1558] Danny Ramirez plays the baby daddy.

[1559] Very sexy.

[1560] I don't even know that.

[1561] He is.

[1562] Of course.

[1563] I have two leading men.

[1564] Oh, that's fun.

[1565] David Corrin Sweat and Danny Ramirez.

[1566] Okay.

[1567] This is a tacky question.

[1568] So I was on a show called Parenthood for a long time.

[1569] And my character was a bachelor.

[1570] So I had different girlfriends and stuff.

[1571] I enjoyed that.

[1572] I get a lot of energy out of the playfulness between the sexes.

[1573] Did you like swapping back and forth?

[1574] Like you're on a set and it's like one day you're with this dude and then they oh tomorrow what's up now?

[1575] Oh, I'm with Danny tomorrow.

[1576] Oh for sure.

[1577] It's fun right?

[1578] It's fun.

[1579] And I'm a single woman and it was single at the time.

[1580] Not that I was like trying to date my co -stars.

[1581] No, but never ends very well for me. So it wasn't about that.

[1582] It was just they're two completely different guys with their own personalities and I love them both.

[1583] and I'm so lucky that I got along with both of them.

[1584] Yes.

[1585] And we had a great time.

[1586] Did they have dinners, those two?

[1587] Like, I could imagine a little bit of bizarre jealousy coming out.

[1588] Like, you're both dating the same person.

[1589] Your characters are dating the same.

[1590] Their characters don't know each other in the movie.

[1591] But they know each other in Austin.

[1592] Yeah, but they have their own lot.

[1593] No, it was no weird.

[1594] Things can blend.

[1595] It was no weird jealousy.

[1596] We all had a great time together.

[1597] Okay, great.

[1598] And let me be more specific.

[1599] Here's exactly what I mean.

[1600] When you act in something, it's really fun to jump into another world in another story and another identity, right?

[1601] Yes.

[1602] And so romance is one of the very fun experiences in life.

[1603] So it's like if you get to leap into romance and all that stuff, I think that's fun.

[1604] Two different love stories.

[1605] It really is.

[1606] You know, it's a rom -com with two love stories.

[1607] I like that.

[1608] And you're seeing the same woman, just in these two different, completely different scenarios, navigating two different relationships.

[1609] And one of them also being the relationship she has with her daughter and her parents and then her best friend and how that differs in the two narratives.

[1610] But of course, acting is the best and playing a romantic lead.

[1611] It's fun to live vicariously through that.

[1612] There we go.

[1613] That's how we say it.

[1614] Of course.

[1615] Yes, that's how we say it.

[1616] And then also what's cool is now this movie was made a quadrillion times in the 80s when I was a kid, but it was a dude who got a bunch of storylines with different women.

[1617] I mean, you know what I'm saying?

[1618] There's something empowering about the fact.

[1619] Give it to a woman.

[1620] Yeah.

[1621] That's right.

[1622] Let's let her have extra.

[1623] But also like a really nice way of saying this woman has two different.

[1624] experiences with two completely different people in these narratives.

[1625] It's not like she ends up with the same man. Right.

[1626] And so it's not just this one true love, this one person.

[1627] There's only one person meant for you and you're going to end up with them.

[1628] It's sort of like a, I think you can have a bunch of soulmates.

[1629] I agree too.

[1630] That's why I was a little hesitant, even when you said five seconds ago, like didn't that happen a little bit when you linked up with Kristen?

[1631] No, and I don't want to be unromantic about it.

[1632] But like, I've loved a few different girls.

[1633] It was wonderful.

[1634] And for whatever reasons, an age and this and that, it wasn't a thing.

[1635] I also hadn't been sober for a long time with anyone else.

[1636] All these variables that make people good matches at different times.

[1637] Of course.

[1638] Yes, I'm a proponent of that.

[1639] I don't know if you've noticed this or you've experienced this, but if you look at couples, I think in general, even the times where it seems like it's a mismatch, I think what people do is they do generally date people with the similar level of self -esteem that they have.

[1640] That makes sense.

[1641] I can chart it with my mother really clearly.

[1642] She had a few different husbands, and I would say the husbands kind of bracketed up as she became empowered and built her own business and had done things.

[1643] I think she knew she deserved something better.

[1644] I think that's how I feel, maybe not self -esteem -wise, but like knowing who you are.

[1645] Someone who knows who they are can't possibly be with someone who just doesn't have those thoughts, those deep thoughts.

[1646] Right.

[1647] And that's what they say, you know, when you go off on your journey and start to figure out who you are, that's when you meet the person you're supposed to meet because you just find other souls who know who they are.

[1648] Yeah.

[1649] And you cannot be ready for certain opportunities too.

[1650] And I'm not someone who, why, I don't believe in God and then be, I'm even questionable on any kind of universal thing.

[1651] Yet, I think it's interesting that I've been given opportunities throughout life just when I was ready.

[1652] Like, parenthood.

[1653] I used to be a scumbag.

[1654] If you had given me that show 10 years before when I was a raging addict, I've come.

[1655] couldn't have been trusted with that opportunity.

[1656] And then in life, as I've gotten more responsible, I think I've been given more opportunity.

[1657] Did you ever see the movie Family Man?

[1658] No. With Nicholas Cage, directed by Brett Ratner when we still had him.

[1659] I don't know if you know about Brett Ratner, but he was asked to leave this business.

[1660] Oh.

[1661] Huge director.

[1662] Penomenal movie.

[1663] Starts off.

[1664] He's like super rich, badass, drives a Ferrari, single.

[1665] Switchy, switchy, switchy, magic he's like now back with his high school sweetheart and that has played itself out I found the movie so heartbreaking and so beautiful that this less flashy life was the one that was really fulfilling and wonderful and then he was at one time fighting to get back to his life and now fighting to stay in the other life it's really good let me my favorite thing about the movie and what drew me to wanting to film it after reading the script was that there is not one life that is better than the other you don't walk away going oh well shit that was the one you wanted yeah and people will have their opinions the beautiful thing about it is she ends up being okay and both oh i love that it's an optimistic there you go i mean more of that i can pin something i really believe in on that which is i often tell folks i'm such a fraud it's becoming very obvious i say i don't give advice and it's horseshit i'm doing it like hourly i urge people who don't have the thing they want yet to remember this is still their life it took me 10 years to get hired as an actor i had a fucking blast though yeah like i had a riot i wasn't sitting at home like oh fuck i know that maybe because i didn't think i was going to get it where i was like well i got to just have a good time anyways so there is some version of like whatever you think is the thing that's going to solve everything maybe you're right maybe you're wrong but don't be waiting for your life to start until you get xyz good advice fucking live it right now that's what i am trying to do well listen i said this to Sean Mendez and I was pretty bold over with his self -awareness.

[1666] There's part of me that is old and says, why is this generation, your generation have so much anxiety?

[1667] Where are they some crippled with anxiety?

[1668] I think everyone's curious about that.

[1669] I don't know if it's that people just talk about it now and everyone always had it.

[1670] One option.

[1671] Maybe it's increased.

[1672] Second option.

[1673] What's the cause of that?

[1674] I don't know.

[1675] But the outcome that I love about it is that there's this kind of honesty that I don't think anyone ever had before.

[1676] And I think it's so comforting to everyone your age and not your age.

[1677] I have body dysmorphia.

[1678] I love hearing about yours.

[1679] The harshest thing is loneliness and feeling alone in your secrets, feeling alone in your struggles.

[1680] And so as much as I'm worried about the high level anxiety, I'm also really oddly optimistic that increasingly people are willing to be at the peak of where you're at for your age and all the things and lots of success and also being honest throughout the ride.

[1681] Yeah.

[1682] I like it.

[1683] It's a really nice movement that you're among the people pushing it forward.

[1684] I hope to be.

[1685] You are.

[1686] A thousand percent.

[1687] I go reread you, you know, the, my Wikipedia.

[1688] Your Wikipedia, I mean, it gives it all to us right there.

[1689] It really does.

[1690] I'm someone who just needs to talk about it.

[1691] Yeah.

[1692] That's how I process.

[1693] That's how I put the pieces together.

[1694] I love just having conversations about, like, let's have an existential conversation.

[1695] Great.

[1696] Let me, like, go through an existential crisis with you in the room and let's get to the end point together.

[1697] Yes.

[1698] And I would hope that as time goes on more and more people join the movement of just being honest and talking about these things.

[1699] Yeah.

[1700] And it doesn't spare anyone.

[1701] Back to the, you're not entitled to have these feelings because you're attractive.

[1702] Reality's not in the mix in any of it.

[1703] Your feelings are justified because you're feeling them.

[1704] Exactly.

[1705] Doesn't need to be anything more.

[1706] You said it much better than I could.

[1707] Okay.

[1708] Look both ways.

[1709] I'm very excited.

[1710] to see it and I'm very glad that you got to work with the director women in charge women yeah such a pleasure meeting you this has been so fun I could talk to you for seven more hours me too so fun thank you for coming look both ways on Netflix August 17th Netflix look both ways I hope it's a ginormous success and you get to walk in and put together whatever thing you want to put together and then find out you feel the same way and then come back We'll talk about that and put together something else.

[1711] All right.

[1712] Feel great meeting you, Lily.

[1713] You as well.

[1714] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[1715] We're running.

[1716] We're rolling.

[1717] Okay.

[1718] Okay.

[1719] So we're going to start off with the grievance.

[1720] Oh, right.

[1721] Is that the right way to start or should I ease it in in the middle?

[1722] Okay, I'll start.

[1723] I'm afraid I'll forget again.

[1724] No, I want to start with something else.

[1725] Okay, perfect.

[1726] You're wearing another pair of pants.

[1727] Oh, another pair of fun pants.

[1728] Confusing pants.

[1729] Would you say these ones, to me, trend a little bit Asian.

[1730] Can you stand up?

[1731] Yeah, absolutely.

[1732] And I don't even want to say Asian.

[1733] I have a mental image of people working in rice patties where they're a little higher up.

[1734] You know those pants?

[1735] They're very specific.

[1736] Yeah, I do know, actually.

[1737] I feel like that's what, and they're bagging away and they're drawstring.

[1738] I see what you mean because what happens is they taper around the ankle, but they're very billowy around the top.

[1739] They're balloon -like with a drawstring.

[1740] I know.

[1741] They're so outside of my comfort zone.

[1742] I know.

[1743] You're playing with clothes and I really like it.

[1744] Oh, good.

[1745] I was waiting to hear the verdict.

[1746] Like, where you're like, what are you doing?

[1747] No, I love this.

[1748] You're too old to be experimenting with all this stuff.

[1749] No. That would have been a legitimate takeaway.

[1750] Well, it's not.

[1751] Okay.

[1752] Okay.

[1753] Thank you.

[1754] I just like this new phase for you, fashion phase.

[1755] You know what's happening.

[1756] And by God, they should be a sponsor at this point.

[1757] But I just trust Todd Snyder now.

[1758] Like I like most of the clothes I see there.

[1759] And so I'll see these.

[1760] And maybe from the photo, it's not clear the real fit of them.

[1761] Well, things fit everyone differently.

[1762] They do.

[1763] But I'm pretty trusting of whatever they're selling.

[1764] So I end up taking some swings.

[1765] I wouldn't otherwise.

[1766] Like if it wasn't a trust.

[1767] branded brand I probably wouldn't have tried it I can relate that's how I feel about the row oh perfect I would take swings if they were on their website I'm trying to think is there anything I like oh you know what I don't want to wear which is back in flared pants back meaning like bell bottoms yeah they're always back I swear I've seen this it this is not like my third go around with this sure they're back I want to know when we're post style like postmodern like where we've already like tight the pants came back then bagging them tight them baggy and now like everything's on the table there's no we're done cycling through oh no 50s is in 60s and 70s 80s 80s and I mean post style and nothing news coming out because every time we have a new style it's really an iteration of the old one are we post style we are I mean they're all trends that recycle yeah so I don't think I mean I'm sure there'll be new stuff but I am going for a more classic silhouette.

[1768] A trouser.

[1769] A blouse.

[1770] I don't even know what that means.

[1771] More like a gown, a gown.

[1772] A gown.

[1773] Oh, I did buy a gown.

[1774] A gown?

[1775] Not a gown, but a incredible dress.

[1776] Really?

[1777] Vintage.

[1778] Oh, wow.

[1779] Do you find it on a website or in person?

[1780] No, in person in Paris.

[1781] Okay.

[1782] Yeah.

[1783] Great.

[1784] And you'll have to have it tailored to fit you?

[1785] It fits like a glove.

[1786] Wow.

[1787] It's very rare for vintage.

[1788] Wow.

[1789] This is a bit disproves your theory from the last fact check.

[1790] Uh -oh.

[1791] What I say?

[1792] That Parisians are Carpenter's dreams.

[1793] Right.

[1794] And that you don't fit into any of the...

[1795] Well, that's right.

[1796] But I think...

[1797] I didn't say that on a fact check.

[1798] I said that to you separately.

[1799] No, it was during the recap of...

[1800] Hold on.

[1801] I know what you're...

[1802] It wasn't.

[1803] Okay.

[1804] I was saying after the fact check, I was saying, you know, it's interesting how bodies are so different to different cultures.

[1805] Right.

[1806] Because I was thinking, like, I do think, and these are not general rules.

[1807] Oh, right.

[1808] You had brought up that you thought maybe, in general, Indians trend up a standard deviation above Europeans.

[1809] Breast size.

[1810] I'm being stacked.

[1811] Breast.

[1812] I think the scientific term is stacked.

[1813] Yes.

[1814] Yeah.

[1815] And because I was noticing, because I love French style so much, and I want to be a French girl, I want to dress like French.

[1816] Wow.

[1817] You used to be a white American.

[1818] and now you're now a French girl.

[1819] I moved on.

[1820] Wow, cool.

[1821] To try to keep up.

[1822] So I want to be a French girl and I want to dress like a...

[1823] I mean, if you're a fashion, if you...

[1824] Yeah, I know.

[1825] If you're into fashion...

[1826] You're into French shit.

[1827] You are.

[1828] You're into French style.

[1829] But I was noticing when I was there, bodies seemingly trend towards a little bit smaller of a chest, breast size.

[1830] Stacked.

[1831] Less stacked.

[1832] And so it was just curious to me, like, oh, yeah, it's all so interesting.

[1833] culturally and genes -wise.

[1834] You go to Rio, you go to the beach, there's a body type.

[1835] And you think, we're all the same species.

[1836] Yeah.

[1837] How could it be that everyone on this beach trends towards a bigger bottom end?

[1838] I think these are like evolutionary things, I assume.

[1839] Well, what I pitch to you, though, is upon reading this book, Behave and how variable, what parts of your DNA get turned on and off, which are informed by your environment, I think it's not too far of a stretch that your body can look around you, detect what is sexually advantageous as sexual selection is a huge part of evolution.

[1840] I think you might have a range of what your body could look like.

[1841] I think maybe your epigenomes turning on and off different things that might make you comply with whatever is sexually advantageous.

[1842] But then we all would have similar bodies in America.

[1843] What I would argue, though, about the huge variety in Americans is, one, there's more genetic diversity in America than any other country on the planet.

[1844] Right.

[1845] Two, there's so much regional stuff.

[1846] So it's like what looks cool in New York City is not what I see in the south at the mud bog.

[1847] Like, they're dressing different, they're showing out different features.

[1848] Like, there's also many cultural dynamics happening within this vast, varied country.

[1849] Ish, but I also think what is concerned.

[1850] Considered, quote, attractive, hot, whatever at the time.

[1851] It does vary a ton.

[1852] It normally comes from whatever model body type is hot in the moment.

[1853] Well, I think there's a lot of drivers.

[1854] There's fashion.

[1855] That's a driver.

[1856] People want to look like Kate Moss.

[1857] Exactly.

[1858] But you also have hip -hop culture.

[1859] That's a huge driver of style and what people want to look like.

[1860] That's why you see butt injections.

[1861] Like the phenomena of butt injections does not come from the world of modeling.

[1862] But it's still coming from.

[1863] aspirational people let's say okay right like yeah but but but again whatever person from your culture you see as aspirational exactly so another anecdotal thing i'll say is and i think if we looked it up maybe rob while we're talking you can look this up there was a dallas type it's big blonde hair and big booze sure that's not the new york type and so lo and behold you're right a lot more women with these big breasts the cowboy cheerleaders sure so you know we see see that variation.

[1864] You want me to look up Dallas women with big butts?

[1865] No, no, no, breast.

[1866] I want to see highest percentage of breast augmentation per city.

[1867] Oh.

[1868] Per capita breast augmentation per city and see if we see some spikes and some dips and some patterns.

[1869] Should I get into my grievance while that's being looked up?

[1870] Yeah.

[1871] Okay.

[1872] I don't want this to sound like virtue signaling.

[1873] I'm a little nervous it's going to come across this virtual signaling, but just rest assured all it was was absolute rage at midnight when I was watching this by myself.

[1874] So I'm watching, first I started with the Elvis movie.

[1875] It's fantastic.

[1876] I'm still not done, but I can already say it's fantastic.

[1877] So because we started it with four people, I can't finish it.

[1878] So I'm like, Jonesing to watch.

[1879] So I find, oh, there's an Elvis documentary, a two -parter on HBO Max.

[1880] Great.

[1881] Earmark, that's my other grievance.

[1882] Oh, my God.

[1883] Okay.

[1884] Jesus.

[1885] So I end up watching this great Elvis documentary.

[1886] And there's all this footage of, because he was so heavily.

[1887] influenced in the 40s by going to black gospel churches.

[1888] They were insanely poor.

[1889] They lived in these railroad house, whatever, these little one -bedroom houses, shotgun shacks.

[1890] And he was really integrated into the black world at that point in Tupelo and then moving to Memphis.

[1891] In the process, they show all of these black churches.

[1892] I'm seeing all this like volcanoes of beauty.

[1893] the way the black churches would sing the gospel singers, the way they're celebrating.

[1894] And they kept panning across these churches.

[1895] And this is footage from the 40s.

[1896] And you'd always go by the image of Jesus on the wall.

[1897] This white dude.

[1898] And all of a sudden I just got outraged.

[1899] I was like, not only were these people captured and brought to this country against their will, they were then given a religion that a white guy's God.

[1900] God is a white guy.

[1901] Well, no, he's not.

[1902] He's Mediterranean.

[1903] Well, no, no. Sure, in reality.

[1904] The image of Christ in all of these paintings is a white dude.

[1905] So the subversive message of like, you want to talk about the like the implementation of inferiority is like by the way, God's white.

[1906] Exactly.

[1907] So I don't know how good you could possibly think you are when God himself was white.

[1908] I'm like, they didn't even get a fucking black guy.

[1909] God, it drove me bonkers.

[1910] You know what I'm saying?

[1911] I was like, how fucking insane that these poor people were, are worshipping this white dude.

[1912] I know.

[1913] Oh, it made me crazy.

[1914] That's preposterous.

[1915] You know what's weird about that?

[1916] There's this like loophole in religion that I don't, in Christianity that I don't understand, which is like, if you don't believe in Jesus, you can't go to heaven.

[1917] But if God is real, why wouldn't God have made you born?

[1918] to believe in Jesus.

[1919] Like, none of this makes any sense.

[1920] Like, if God was all powerful and made you, then he would make you believe in Jesus.

[1921] Well, you have free will.

[1922] That's what they would counter with.

[1923] But I think I get more specific with it because I've proposed this to a family member.

[1924] Your benevolent loving God made half of the population on planet Earth incapable of even becoming aware of Jesus.

[1925] If you are born in Papua New Guinea, if you're born in the highlands of China, if you're born in all these places, like, it's not even presented to you.

[1926] Forget you should take them into your heart.

[1927] Like, how do you make peace with the notion that more than half the people on planet, half of God's children won't even be aware that that's the God to choose?

[1928] And that half of everyone here right now is going to hell?

[1929] That's the God.

[1930] The God allowed half of the people to go to hell through no first.

[1931] fault of their own?

[1932] Because it wasn't even presented to them.

[1933] That's wild.

[1934] But that's what I'm saying that what it was your?

[1935] Well, you were saying, why wouldn't he just make you born with a belief in God already?

[1936] And I'm saying they would counter argue, well, that would violate the tenant of free will.

[1937] God wants you to have free will and then choose him.

[1938] Great.

[1939] I accept those are the rules we're playing by.

[1940] Right.

[1941] But why if God is really all power?

[1942] So is, why would there even be other religions, though?

[1943] If God has control over all this stuff?

[1944] Like why would there be others to choose from?

[1945] Like choosing choosing to believe is one thing, but there are these other options.

[1946] Are they saying God did that as a test?

[1947] Well, there's a lot of tests.

[1948] Yeah.

[1949] Anywho.

[1950] I don't want to, I'm not going to war with broader religion.

[1951] I'm all four people having a God they believe in and a savior that gives them peace and a set of marching orders that give them order.

[1952] What I'm really bummed about is that black folks were told this dude's white.

[1953] Yeah.

[1954] I define that.

[1955] Yeah.

[1956] A little diabolical to reinforce white superiority.

[1957] Yeah, it is.

[1958] Yeah.

[1959] Do you want cities with...

[1960] Yeah, highest...

[1961] Yeah.

[1962] Salt Lake's up there, right?

[1963] Do you want me...

[1964] I got the top ten.

[1965] Hit me with the top ten.

[1966] Number ten is Miami, Florida.

[1967] Sure.

[1968] Makes sense.

[1969] Nine is San Francisco.

[1970] Oh.

[1971] Eight, San Diego.

[1972] Okay.

[1973] Seven, Austin, Texas.

[1974] Boom.

[1975] Six, San Antonio.

[1976] Five, Mobile.

[1977] Four, Oklahoma City.

[1978] Three, Honolulu.

[1979] Wow.

[1980] Unexpected.

[1981] Two Fresno.

[1982] Oh, whoa.

[1983] And one, Salt Lake City.

[1984] Wow, so Dallas wasn't even in there.

[1985] Wait, what was number one again?

[1986] Salt Lake City.

[1987] We had just been told this by Erica.

[1988] A high Mormon thing.

[1989] There wasn't a ton of reliable research on this.

[1990] Is this from nice titties .com?

[1991] Insidermonkey .com.

[1992] Hmm.

[1993] So what was Erica saying that it's common in the Mormon population?

[1994] Yeah.

[1995] A lot of breast augmentation.

[1996] Well, she was saying the person she was assigned to, I guess you have like a, I'm a layman.

[1997] I don't really know what the term is, but like a pastor.

[1998] Her appointed pastor who she would have to talk about the rules with, he was a breast surgeon.

[1999] Wow.

[2000] Yeah.

[2001] Do you think it's because they're having so many kids, Mormons?

[2002] Her take is it's this endless pursuit of perfection.

[2003] Yeah, that makes sense to me. Perfect wife.

[2004] Perfect wife would have perfect boobs.

[2005] Quotes, quotes, quotes.

[2006] I'm putting everything in quotes.

[2007] Okay.

[2008] Do you want my second grievance?

[2009] Yes.

[2010] It's the last hot button.

[2011] Yes.

[2012] Hulu.

[2013] Great platform.

[2014] I love it.

[2015] I love Hulu.

[2016] I've even said pound for pound, their percentage of great content is really up there.

[2017] Yes.

[2018] Their auto recommend feature.

[2019] when an episode of a show you're watching ends and they put on the up next is horrific.

[2020] I have been mid -season of a certain show and next up, an episode from a different season altogether, an episode from another show I'm not watching, categorically, Hulu, you need to improve this.

[2021] Okay, I'm going to defend Hulu because I've never had that problem.

[2022] Never.

[2023] Okay, so you've never.

[2024] I have, Rob.

[2025] I've gotten weird recommendations, but only once I'm out of episodes for a show.

[2026] Yes, after you're done with your season, a new show will come up immediately and you don't know what it is and it is random.

[2027] No, this is mine having this mid -season.

[2028] Yeah, I've never had that.

[2029] I can tell you exactly what, yes, maybe they're like, this is an eclectic motherfucker, which I accept.

[2030] Let's throw anything at them.

[2031] It seems to be an interest in everything.

[2032] Kind of true.

[2033] I was on like episode six of alone, season seven.

[2034] Next up, it's alone.

[2035] I hit it.

[2036] Aaron and I are watching it.

[2037] We're very confused.

[2038] Now it's like it's interactive.

[2039] There's a host.

[2040] What the fuck is this?

[2041] It took us to another alone product, not even the show, but some like chat show that involves alone episode four.

[2042] I was like, what the what kind of quantum leak was that?

[2043] I entered a wormhole.

[2044] Maybe my Hulu stuck in a wormhole.

[2045] That's cool.

[2046] If you're the person in charge of the algorithm that directs you to different episodes and you want to come on here, I'll give you a rebuttal.

[2047] Contact us.

[2048] Otherwise, great platform.

[2049] Incredible content.

[2050] Got no complaints about their content.

[2051] And obviously, that's the biggest thing that they should be worrying about.

[2052] They're doing a great job.

[2053] But their recommendation for me is all over the place.

[2054] Yeah, I was actually driving here thinking about how good Hulu was.

[2055] Okay.

[2056] So that is interesting.

[2057] Knowing that this grievance was coming up or just independently.

[2058] Because I had watched the first episode of The Patient, which is on Hulu.

[2059] And I was like, damn, Hulu really is.

[2060] serving yeah and a lot of it by way of FX I also want to applaud FX man do they have good content they do we've got a big Hulu star next week yes dingles Easter eggs okay this is for Lily Reinhardt wonderful yeah we loved Lily we did there is a ding ding ding ding because she was watching Survivor and got auto recommended an Elvis documentary yes exactly I forget what the ding ding ding ding is let's see if it comes up naturally also we brought up cedar point again so it's becoming which was in the news oh why a lot of people who know i talk about cedar point elect forwarded me all these articles they have the second tallest roller coaster in the world and they just elected to shut it down oh wow because at some point in the not too distant past some metal object fell out of the ride and it's like over 400 feet tall and it fell it's about 40 stories oh they had no wrongful doing But they've decided to shut that thing down.

[2061] Wow.

[2062] Yeah, that's in the news right now.

[2063] Interesting.

[2064] Okay, now this is a good quiz.

[2065] This is a good test of how much you retain these facts.

[2066] Oh, okay.

[2067] Because we just found out that it was the second because I said that.

[2068] And I read it in these articles.

[2069] So, exactly.

[2070] So you didn't remember that, right?

[2071] I didn't.

[2072] Do you remember what the first is?

[2073] Because now come up twice on two facts.

[2074] I know, but even the last fact check I had forgot.

[2075] I was like, wasn't it at a, because you said it was in New Jersey.

[2076] Six Flags, New Jersey.

[2077] Yeah, I don't know the name of the coaster.

[2078] No, it's okay.

[2079] You don't have to know the name of the coaster.

[2080] I just was wondering if you're - Six Flags, New Jersey.

[2081] That's right.

[2082] Flying over Jersey.

[2083] Flying over the Garden State.

[2084] Nope, great adventures.

[2085] Great adventures.

[2086] Okay.

[2087] Moresville, North Carolina is at the home of NASCAR.

[2088] Mordsville is best known as the home of many NASCAR racing teams and drivers, along with an Indycard team and its drivers, as well as racing technology suppliers, which has earned the city the nickname quote race city USA oh baby however the company is headquartered in Daytona Beach Florida okay maybe a better tax structure probably also Daytona most famous race on the calendar other than India well there's a handful yeah we talked about my guess of her dad's profession was psychometrition then it was what is psychometrician, I gave a kind of bad answer.

[2089] Psychometrics is a field of study within psychology concerned with the theory and technique of measurement.

[2090] Psychometrics generally refers to specialized fields within psychology and education devoted to testing, measurement, assessment, and related activities.

[2091] That's the holy grail of psychology, is none of it is really quantifiable.

[2092] It's answering questions.

[2093] We can't measure a lot of stuff.

[2094] They say you have low serotonin.

[2095] We don't get to read out of what your serotonin is, you know.

[2096] Tuo.

[2097] Wherei, where we, too.

[2098] Does Munchausen's predominantly affect nurses?

[2099] Yeah.

[2100] Are they the perpetrators of it?

[2101] Right.

[2102] There appear to be two separate groups of people affected by Munchausen syndrome.

[2103] They are women who are 20 to 40 years of age, often with the background in healthcare, and unmarried white men who are 30 to 50 years of age.

[2104] Wow.

[2105] Yeah.

[2106] Wow, wow, wow.

[2107] I've got to include them now.

[2108] You do.

[2109] Yeah, because every time we meet a nurse, I ask her if she has moonshousins.

[2110] And now every time I meet a single 30 to 50 -year -old white male, I'm going to ask if they have moonshows to make it fair.

[2111] Who should we reach back out to?

[2112] Nicholas Holt.

[2113] Nicholas.

[2114] We're with TBD on Nicholas.

[2115] Next time he's year, we'll ask.

[2116] There's a new movie coming out that I really want to see with Jessica Chastain and Eddie.

[2117] Redmayne.

[2118] I think it's called the good nurse or something like that.

[2119] Okay.

[2120] And he's a medical professor.

[2121] He's a nurse, I guess.

[2122] He's like a medical profession.

[2123] He administers blood pressure and puts IVs in.

[2124] Well, yeah.

[2125] So it's based on a true story.

[2126] Yeah, there was a nurse.

[2127] I had a serial killer book when I was like in my 20s.

[2128] It was like the top 100 most prolific serial killers.

[2129] And one of them was a nurse that was poisoning people.

[2130] I wonder if that's this is the story.

[2131] It probably is.

[2132] He was he was putting insulin in the IV bags.

[2133] Oh, yeah.

[2134] What a purr.

[2135] Ew, right?

[2136] Yeah.

[2137] So he had Munchausens by proxy in some ways.

[2138] He was just a straight -up murderer.

[2139] Okay.

[2140] Well, similar, I guess.

[2141] I don't want anyone that's got Munchausen to be like, guys, stop misrepresenting us.

[2142] Dad, sometimes you try to protect the craziest groups.

[2143] I'm protecting myself when I do that.

[2144] You have Munchausen?

[2145] No, like, this happened when, and this is, I learned from this.

[2146] So when we were talking about psychological distinctions...

[2147] I'm glad we're talking about this.

[2148] Yeah.

[2149] It would never occur to me that, like, I can't talk mildly disparagingly about narcissism.

[2150] We all kind of think narcissism is not a great disposition.

[2151] So you go like, oh, you don't want to marry narcissists.

[2152] You don't want to blow up.

[2153] You were talking specifically about...

[2154] Well, no, within it, first was I was saying narcissistic disorder.

[2155] Yeah.

[2156] And then I was saying borderline personality disorder.

[2157] yeah and i went too far and then many people that are diagnosed with it who are undergoing treatment like alcoholism they were like hey you can't just say stay away from all of us and i that was valid my retort though was i also would advise everyone to stay away from an addict in their addiction now an addict in recovery is one thing and then i would clarify and as i should have when i said it someone borderline personality disorder in recovery you know game on but i I did lump those two into one category, like narcissism and borderline disorder.

[2158] I had no problem.

[2159] I still don't have any problem saying like narcissism is to be avoided.

[2160] No, no. We were talking about a group of four disorders.

[2161] They are in the same category of narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality disorder, psychopathy.

[2162] Uh -huh.

[2163] Sociopathy.

[2164] They are grouped.

[2165] Where I erred is I was saying you should know if you're going to date someone.

[2166] with borderline personality disorder, that they're going to fall quickly in love with you, or that this is the pattern, that fall quickly in love with you or a friendship, quickly enamored with you, and then at some point something flips, and they decide you're actually their nemesis trying to destroy them.

[2167] And I think a lot of people who have been diagnosed with this and are working at were fair to say, untreated, sure.

[2168] Yeah.

[2169] But you can't write someone off entirely who has addiction because if they're in recovery, that's a different ball of wax.

[2170] So we went back in and we did a little tinkering because you got comments.

[2171] Yeah.

[2172] And I wrote this long text out when you sent that to me. Right.

[2173] To cut it.

[2174] I was like about to say, no, I really don't think we should.

[2175] Yeah.

[2176] And then I was, you know, I was getting my eggs done and I didn't have time.

[2177] Yeah.

[2178] You didn't want to be in a battle with me. I didn't.

[2179] Yeah, yeah.

[2180] Because also what you were trying to do was nice.

[2181] You were trying to make people feel better.

[2182] So ultimately like, yes, of course.

[2183] But no, like, I have a problem with a sugar coating, a very real disorder.

[2184] Yeah.

[2185] I think it's totally fine to say signing up for a relationship with someone with those four disorders, signing up in a relationship with an addict, it comes with stuff.

[2186] And you really do have to know what it comes with in order to sign up and sign on.

[2187] and say, this is something I'm willing to take on for my life.

[2188] I agree with you 100%.

[2189] And I have no problem being very honest and up front and even brutal about what these disorders are.

[2190] Yeah.

[2191] What pattern emerges.

[2192] Where I think I went too far is avoid at all cost someone who has this.

[2193] I don't think you said that.

[2194] I really don't.

[2195] Oh, okay.

[2196] Yeah, maybe I didn't.

[2197] You didn't.

[2198] And so if that's what people are hearing, that's a bummer to me. Well, people hear, it's crazy what they hear.

[2199] That was my whole point is I was like, I don't think that's something we have to fix because all you said is, I think actually what you said is that's a deal breaker for me. Right.

[2200] And it is okay that that is a deal breaker for you because it's okay that we all have deal breakers in this life about who we choose to be with.

[2201] Right.

[2202] It comes with stuff.

[2203] And if you're not someone who wants to take that on, it's okay.

[2204] Yes, but here's the thing I can own.

[2205] I'm not in favor writing off an entire category of people, except for I am okay with writing off sociopaths.

[2206] Yeah.

[2207] That's what's interesting.

[2208] That's where I'm acknowledging is I pretty much was making, I was combining narcissism sociopaths and personality disorder as being one thing.

[2209] Because two of those things I don't mind telling people, like, don't ever date them.

[2210] I think I erred in recommending carte blanche, you shouldn't date someone with border night personality.

[2211] I didn't really realize you could be in recovery as much as you can be, apparently.

[2212] So that part I could do better at, and I don't mind doing better at.

[2213] Anyways, this brings us all to, I'm inclined to say you should never be with someone with Moon Chausen.

[2214] And then I'm also acknowledging I might hear from somebody that has Moon Chalzin who's actually maybe even recovered from it.

[2215] I mean, this is what I'm saying.

[2216] This gets ridiculous.

[2217] That's a valid point, too.

[2218] This comes back to the autism episode, though, with Ricky, which is like, if you know, knew the person had autism, you could extend to them a certain level of compassion, understanding, and patience.

[2219] And maybe the best part of me thinks I could somehow extend some understanding, some compassion, and some patience with someone with Moonschausen's even.

[2220] Okay.

[2221] We can generally do that.

[2222] We can, of course.

[2223] And I think it is completely different autism.

[2224] And Moonschabst is because that's dangerous.

[2225] Uh -huh.

[2226] That's dangerous to people around them.

[2227] And so is extreme.

[2228] Soceopathy and narcissism.

[2229] Exactly.

[2230] There's actual danger.

[2231] Yeah.

[2232] And there can be danger with addiction.

[2233] Uh -huh.

[2234] Yeah, for sure.

[2235] So all I'm saying is, you know, we don't have to like, yeah, carte blanche right off a type.

[2236] But it is definitely okay for you, for me, for anyone listening to say, for me, I have boundaries.

[2237] And I'm not going to engage in a relationship with someone who has Moonchazen's borderline personality, narcissism, Addiction.

[2238] It's okay.

[2239] But again, okay, two things.

[2240] One, I agree with you.

[2241] But it's, it is nuance.

[2242] So I first and foremost, when someone's talking about addiction on an NPR, it's two experts, I have nothing personal is going on with me just because I'm an addict.

[2243] Secondly, if someone said blanketly, don't ever love an addict, don't ever be in a relationship with an addict, I might point out an active addict, yes.

[2244] An addict in recovery?

[2245] I disagree.

[2246] But what would you say if you heard someone say, for me, I can't sign up for that life.

[2247] Because for me, I have high anxiety.

[2248] I have this.

[2249] I have this.

[2250] So even one in recovery.

[2251] For some people, that is not a match.

[2252] That's not going to be.

[2253] If your chronic problem is codependency, it's not a good match.

[2254] It's not a good match.

[2255] I agree.

[2256] I'm fine with that.

[2257] I am fine with that.

[2258] That's what I'm saying.

[2259] But I also have a lot of self -esteem.

[2260] I don't know.

[2261] I know.

[2262] actually not respecting other people's decisions about their life.

[2263] That's true.

[2264] That's true.

[2265] That's true.

[2266] Yeah.

[2267] It's complicated.

[2268] It is.

[2269] It's kind of like the debate we got in about the DUI checkpoint.

[2270] I had so many people go like, the fact that you're denying there's a history of racism and the LAPD and it's like, I never said that.

[2271] And in fact, I said many times I acknowledge the racist history and I acknowledge the bias.

[2272] Yes.

[2273] And it doesn't matter how many times you say that.

[2274] Yeah.

[2275] People don't want to hear that.

[2276] It's very frustrating.

[2277] Well, right, which is why when you want to me to change the thing, I was like, I don't like bending because they are choosing to hear what is triggering them.

[2278] And it's not what's actually being said.

[2279] And it's not our job to then do that, but whatever.

[2280] It's a tough call.

[2281] It's happened three times in 500 episodes that I've been like, we should probably edit that out.

[2282] That's a little.

[2283] Again, I'm always going to be like, okay, sure, if it's going to make some people less sad or uncomfortable.

[2284] Of course, I want to mitigate people's pain.

[2285] And the integrity of the episode's always priority number one for me. So if I thought the episode had lost a lot of integrity because I took that one line out, I said, I wouldn't do it.

[2286] Yeah.

[2287] But I also didn't think it was a hillward dying on.

[2288] I didn't think it was that integral to the episode in general.

[2289] Yes, agreed.

[2290] Yeah.

[2291] Okay.

[2292] Moonshous.

[2293] No. The Pope on the table.

[2294] Oh, it's a Bucca de Bepa.

[2295] It is.

[2296] There's a Pope room.

[2297] You were absolutely right.

[2298] Oh, yay.

[2299] I think he's on a lazy Susan, too, so you can get a look at him.

[2300] It's a specialty table.

[2301] It's called the Pope table.

[2302] It seats 12 to 18.

[2303] Great for a birthday party.

[2304] Mm -hmm.

[2305] It's in a one foot by one foot glass box, painted bust of Pope John Paul the second.

[2306] Didn't even know which one I was looking at.

[2307] Okay.

[2308] Is Pier 1 still in business?

[2309] No. Oh.

[2310] Peer one filed.

[2311] They filed for child.

[2312] Chapter 11 Bankruptcy Protection on February 17, 2020, though, which is much later than I thought.

[2313] Yeah.

[2314] I thought it had been gone for a long time.

[2315] Although I was seeing the one next to 7 -Eleven.

[2316] Yeah.

[2317] I think they weren't one of the last ones.

[2318] Did Archie Comics make up the word jalopy?

[2319] Oh.

[2320] No way.

[2321] First use was in 1928.

[2322] Do we know why?

[2323] What it was meant to mean?

[2324] It means an old card, a clunker.

[2325] Oh, you know, I was just wondering if, like, there was.

[2326] was a model that Ford released called the Jellipino and it was riddled with mechanical errors and then that's why.

[2327] The car in the books, the jalopy, or not books, comics.

[2328] Oh, help.

[2329] Was a 1916 Ford Model T. It was.

[2330] Oh, wow.

[2331] Apparently there's Jalapa, Mexico where many U .S. used cars are sent.

[2332] That may be the origin of the word.

[2333] Maybe.

[2334] That's exciting.

[2335] Maybe.

[2336] Maybe not.

[2337] This is a ding, ding, ding, sort of in Spain.

[2338] I went to a museum, the Guggenheim in Bilbao.

[2339] By Gary.

[2340] Yes, it was incredible.

[2341] The exhibit was a car exhibit.

[2342] Oh, I would have sprayed everywhere.

[2343] You would have.

[2344] I, of course, thought of you the whole time.

[2345] Oh, thank you.

[2346] Yes.

[2347] And I got you a T -shirt because I had to.

[2348] I can't go to a car exhibit and not get you a treat.

[2349] That's true.

[2350] You like me going to a row exhibit.

[2351] Exactly.

[2352] Not buying me a lot of clothes.

[2353] Right.

[2354] We're not buying you a wardrobe.

[2355] Not bringing you an old son twin.

[2356] Yeah, exactly.

[2357] So, you know, first of all, I was like, oh, my God, I'm changed.

[2358] I'm a changed person because of you.

[2359] Oh.

[2360] Because I was, like, excited.

[2361] Callie was like, there's a car exhibit.

[2362] That might be cool.

[2363] And I was like, yeah.

[2364] Yeah, that is cool.

[2365] And I definitely would never have thought that was cool before I knew you.

[2366] Right.

[2367] So I had the realization like, oh, that's a piece that's changed.

[2368] Yes, we change each other.

[2369] We do.

[2370] Me and cheerleading.

[2371] You love it.

[2372] I've respected it as a highest form of athleticism now.

[2373] Exactly.

[2374] Did you see your favorite car, the Mercedes -Going?

[2375] Did they have one there?

[2376] Yes.

[2377] They had one there.

[2378] Yes.

[2379] Oh, my gosh.

[2380] Of course they did.

[2381] It's one of the most beautiful cars ever made.

[2382] They had the coolest.

[2383] I took so many pictures.

[2384] Oh, I haven't seen any of these.

[2385] I'll show you all them.

[2386] But they had the coolest.

[2387] Did they have any Indie Warhol, BMW M -1s?

[2388] Oh, far.

[2389] I don't know.

[2390] See, that's the problem.

[2391] I wish you could have been there because you would have been in hell.

[2392] Although I would have made a mess.

[2393] They would have asked me to leave.

[2394] Anyway, I thought of you and I thought of Pier 1.

[2395] Yeah.

[2396] Of course.

[2397] How could you have not?

[2398] Seeing all these cars from the bygone era.

[2399] I don't want to be rude to Pier 1.

[2400] But the place always confused me. I remember going for the first time when I was 8 and I was like, what is this place?

[2401] They sell wicker.

[2402] And then I was like, no, they sell candles.

[2403] I was like, no, they sell things you hang on the, like I couldn't.

[2404] It's a home store, home goods.

[2405] But a weird one, right?

[2406] Like, what were they trading on that it was like an importer exporter, that it was like these goods were from Asia?

[2407] No. What was the theme?

[2408] Pier one.

[2409] So I get it.

[2410] There's a pier.

[2411] Ships come into peers.

[2412] It's import, export.

[2413] But from where?

[2414] Was there a consistent vibe?

[2415] No. Okay.

[2416] A lot of wicker.

[2417] There was a lot of wicker.

[2418] I don't love wicker.

[2419] Someone's going to, someone right now is like, stop making fun of my wicker chair okay you guys dax cannot like wicker that's his personal opinion yeah and i'm not talking about your wicker chair your wicker chair is great i hate wicker and your wicker chair is great the exception about it well you know i'm a oCD ish about right angles i like square things rectangle things you do you don't like circles i don't well i love circles if they're on a woman you do not like circles and furniture i hate it i hate it i hate it I don't like circular windows.

[2420] I don't like, yeah, I don't want a circular door.

[2421] I like rectangles and right angles.

[2422] So, Wicker to me seems at least to really skew non -right angle.

[2423] Oh.

[2424] There's always like the big papassan.

[2425] What's the chair people sit in?

[2426] Oh, Papasad, yeah.

[2427] Is that what it's called?

[2428] Yeah.

[2429] Yeah, it's just like a bunch of, they're not even concentric circles.

[2430] It's like one's an oval, ones of circle, ones.

[2431] It's just a mess of unpredictability.

[2432] and the chairs they're always they've got an arch at the top your famous wicker chairs there's very little right angles in wicker i think okay no look but i will say that's a very right angley wicker chair do you like that well but even look to the right the don't look to the right but the nature of wicker is it's crisscross and applesauce and it's not uniform but it's woven it is i love this chair actually that's a great looking chair actually and we do have some new chairs on our in front of the guest house that I believe are wicker and I love them gorgeous okay so you're open you just historically I don't love wicker and it doesn't you sit in and it's like it's like made out of bamboo and it's squeaking and squawking and it feels like it might break yeah that's my only that's my only use sturdiness it doesn't right but I I love wicker actually it's back in that's probably why you guys have the chairs what if pier one fucking comes out of nowhere like game stop yeah maybe because it's known for so much wicker and wicker's back wicker park wicker park just came up when i typed in wicker parker warbler oh warbler parkley warby parkler nope warby parker okay all right was that all the facts yeah okay wonderful well i enjoyed it me too i love you i love you i love circles follow armchair expert on the wondery app amazon music or wherever you get your podcast You can listen to every episode of Armchair Expert early and ad free right now by joining Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

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