S2 E8: Season 2: Q + A

[0] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to something was wrong early and ad -free right now.

[1] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[2] I'm Dan Tversky.

[3] In 2011, something strange began to happen at a high school in upstate New York.

[4] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[5] What's the answer?

[6] And what do you do if they tell you it's all in your head?

[7] Hysterical.

[8] A new podcast from Wondry and Pineapple Street Studios.

[9] Binge all episodes of Histerical Early and Ad -Free.

[10] on Wondry Plus.

[11] This podcast is intended for mature audiences and discusses topics that could be triggering to some.

[12] Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast.

[13] I am not a therapist or a doctor.

[14] All resources, books, and sources mentioned on the podcast can be found linked in the episode notes.

[15] If you or someone you love is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 -7233.

[16] If you or someone you love is struggling with a suicidal crisis or emotional distress, you can contact the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline 24 -7 at 1 -800 -273 -8255.

[17] Thank you so much for listening.

[18] Yesterday, T and I met to reflect on the season and discuss the questions submitted by you guys, so thank you so much for sending in your questions, your comments, and all of your thoughts, encouragement, and love.

[19] You guys are the absolute best, and I really appreciate everything you do to support the podcast as well as tea this season.

[20] Here we go.

[21] Can I just tell you how sad I'm going to be that over?

[22] me too i know really yeah i'm still sad about season one being over two you know yeah i'm really sad like i waited so long and it yeah to do it and and i got to meet you and it was really thrilling you know to have like you listen to me and like first of all believe me listen to me and then agree to talk to me and then agree to pick up my story and then the support and love i got from you So I'm just like really, I'm a little sad it's over.

[23] I love you and I'm sad it's over too, but when you get back from your trip, we have to celebrate.

[24] We have to get together and do something.

[25] Yeah.

[26] I couldn't express to people, like even my family and my friends, like, what a big deal this was to me. This was the most dramatic thing that has ever happened.

[27] And I was very painful and very raw for a very long time.

[28] And I just couldn't express to my friends and family, like how important it was for them to listen to the story, even though they felt like they knew it.

[29] Every single person who has listened to it has said, oh my God, I had no idea.

[30] I thought I knew the story.

[31] I didn't know the story.

[32] And holy shit, is this for real?

[33] For me, it was a lot of different emotions.

[34] One was closure and one was finally feeling heard and understood.

[35] You got it and understood and I needed that.

[36] I just needed that from the people like even in my life like grandma was 82 and she figured out how to load the podcast and she started listening to the podcast and three episodes in she sent me the sweetest text and she said, I remember when this happened.

[37] I had no idea that all of these things happened.

[38] I can't believe it.

[39] I wish I had been there for you more and I feel terrible that I wasn't there for you because I had no idea how in depth this was and I had no idea what really happened and I want you know that I love you so much on that your heart is what makes you who you are and I love you and that's grandma.

[40] That's amazing.

[41] Hi grandma.

[42] I love that.

[43] Dude, that's really awesome.

[44] I'm so glad to hear that it's been validating for you because it's a really hard story to find other people that can sort of relate.

[45] And a lot of people have not been through the situation that you have been through because it is an insanely unique situation.

[46] So this was four years of my life and then two years like with no contact and then all everything else that happened.

[47] This is four years of day in, day out, four Christmases, for, I mean, for everything and one thing that's like on my list of things to talk about with you today is y 'all this was not a Netflix documentary made for TV thing this was my life and this happened to me and you know I might not have done everything right I might should have handled things differently but I was just trying to get through it and when it's happening to you it's so great to be able to look back and sit and judge and say, oh, well, you should have done this or why didn't you think about that or whatever.

[48] This was four years of my life.

[49] And it was a constant inundation of emotion.

[50] So they tell you that like someone that you know has cancer, you begin grieving at the diagnosis and that, you know, you go through all of that.

[51] It's a grieving process.

[52] And so, you know, emotion and then having someone try to kill themselves and then you're finding them and then going through all.

[53] all this, this was not a TV movie or whatever.

[54] This was happened to a real person.

[55] I had so much love for her and I do understand that she was mentally ill. And I 100 % understand as much as a layman can understand mental illness.

[56] I get it.

[57] And when this happened and I couldn't get over it and I needed somehow to process this.

[58] The way I processed it was go back to school.

[59] So I went back to college and I met with my professor regularly.

[60] I took psychology and I told them what happened.

[61] And I was trying so hard to figure out like it was helpful for me to go back to school and study it and study the different types of mental illness and different types of antisocial behavior.

[62] But there is no understanding and this is a not normal situation it was really hard for me to hear the judgment like you were saying you told me when we sat down to do the first taping and you said do not go on the internet do not do any of that and i did not listen and i did and i did pop into the facebook group i popped out too.

[63] But I was really disheartened to hear the judgment in there.

[64] And I just would, I can't, I'm not going to say here and defend anything because I did the best I could with what I had and what I knew.

[65] And that's all any of us can ever do is try and try to get through something.

[66] And I would say to the people that were kind of haters on Facebook, you know, walk in my shoes and then put them on for four years and then you can judge me. But that was very painful and hurtful.

[67] That's the only bad thing that really that I would have to say about this whole experience.

[68] It was awesome.

[69] But that, I guess I wasn't prepared for that.

[70] I don't think you can prepare for it.

[71] My husband is always just like, that wasn't for you.

[72] Like that wasn't intended for you.

[73] And if it was written to you, it wouldn't sound that way.

[74] And it wouldn't be that way.

[75] And it's like people don't think of you.

[76] it's just the internet you know it's an abstract it's just like social media like it's like this abstract view that we think is real life but it's and has this like weighty relevance in our lives but it actually doesn't but it sure freaking feels like it one thing i did want to address on there that was a misconception or misunderstood was um i did not contact the family after i was asked not to so that was a misconception that was out there that i really wanted to clear up So, like, when the mom, when I found out that the mom said, it's too painful, I can't talk to you, that's it.

[77] I never contacted them again.

[78] And people really judged me on, like, my letter to Sylvia that I wrote and then, like, reaching out to her family.

[79] And again, I would say, we all just try to process grief and you walk through it different ways.

[80] And I was doing the best I could.

[81] And I was just trying to get through every day.

[82] And every time I drove by a house she lived in or a restaurant we went to, I was just overcome with emotion and heart.

[83] I was heartbroken.

[84] Like, my friend passed away.

[85] And it was awful and it was terrible.

[86] And those emotions when I reached out to the grandma, the daughter's grandma, you know, when I was still having trouble and she said, I've moved on, you should move on.

[87] That was it.

[88] I never heard from her again either.

[89] And then I just had to process myself, and I did go to counseling.

[90] I did talk to people.

[91] And, you know, I did the best I could with what I had.

[92] I'm certainly not the person I was yesterday or last week or a month ago.

[93] It's really easy for me to look back on how I handled situations even a year ago and be like, you know what, I would handle that differently now.

[94] You know, when you know better, you do better.

[95] All of the things that anyone, all of the human emotions.

[96] Tiffany, I'm so sorry.

[97] Lily just walked down the hall with a bag of beef jerky in her mouth.

[98] Same Lily, same.

[99] She struck him with her motor vehicle.

[100] She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

[101] In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O 'Keefe.

[102] It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location.

[103] What happens next next?

[104] depends on who you ask.

[105] Was it a crime of passion?

[106] If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling.

[107] This was clearly an intentional act.

[108] And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia.

[109] Or a corrupt police cover -up.

[110] If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover -up to prevent one of their own from going down.

[111] Everyone had an opinion.

[112] And after the 10 -week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous.

[113] decision.

[114] To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is.

[115] Law and crime presents the most in -depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen.

[116] You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondry Plus.

[117] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

[118] I'm Dan Tversky.

[119] In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York.

[120] I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like, stuttering super bad.

[121] I'm like, stop fucking around.

[122] She's like, I can't.

[123] A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast.

[124] It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls.

[125] With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low.

[126] Everybody thought I was holding something back.

[127] Well, you were holding something back.

[128] Intentionally.

[129] Yeah, yeah.

[130] Well, yeah.

[131] No, it's hysteria.

[132] It's all in your head.

[133] It's not physical.

[134] Oh, my gosh, you're exaggerating.

[135] Is this the largest mass hysteria since the witches of Salem?

[136] Or is it something else entirely?

[137] Something's wrong here.

[138] Something's not right.

[139] Leroy was the new date line and everyone was trying to solve the murder.

[140] A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

[141] Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[142] You can binge all episodes of hysterical early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus.

[143] Okay, should we get to some of these questions that people sent in?

[144] Surely.

[145] Okay, so Olivia on Instagram said, hi, Tiffany.

[146] I just finished listening to the newest pod episode, and holy shit, I cannot believe what tea and so many others went through because of Sylvia, absolutely wild.

[147] My heart goes out to tea and everyone else involved.

[148] Anyway, my question for tea, what did you do to help cope after not getting answers about this situation that you deserved getting?

[149] Thank you so much for listening and being supportive.

[150] So when Sylvia died, she died on my husband's birthday.

[151] And my husband has a December birthday.

[152] It's right by Christmas.

[153] And we were having Christmas at the family, you know, a family member's house.

[154] And I remember walking into their bedroom and crawling into their bed and like pulling the covers over my head and just sobbing.

[155] And my stomach hurt all the time.

[156] And I remember my sweet daughter was like, Mom's gone.

[157] Where's my?

[158] Oh, shit.

[159] mom's gone where'd mom go and she found me and then she went and got her dad and he's like do we need to go and i said yeah and it was christmas the state that i was in was so completely broken so i had to do something so what did i do first i went to a counselor then i started working out a lot because that helps clear my head and then i did something kind of funny and kind of crazy so i had to do something that completely occupied my mind because i couldn't stop thinking about things So I took all of our bedroom furniture, and this is December, January, I pulled it into the driveway, and I started sanding our entire bedroom set, all of it, the headboard, footboard, dressers, nightstands, armwarm, everything.

[160] I sanded it all down, I stained it, I shacked it.

[161] I think it took me two months, you know, to do it.

[162] That's how I did that.

[163] I also have an art studio at my house, and I have paint, and I was up all night a lot of the time.

[164] But those are the things I did, counseling, working out, refinishing a whole bedroom set.

[165] I highly recommend that if you need to take your mind off of something because it's a pain and they ask them a lot of work.

[166] Diana says one question I would ask T was, why didn't anyone try to talk sense into Sylvia?

[167] How was she working, but also needing everyone to take care of her kids and cooking?

[168] Why was she going to nursing school, but also so weak that she needed to wear diapers and have her friends bathe her?

[169] It seemed like her life was so out of balance and everyone was helping her, but at the same time helping her stay out of balance.

[170] I was having trouble understanding how it all fit together.

[171] That's an awesome question, and I'm so glad that you chose that to read.

[172] First of all, again, keep in mind this was four years.

[173] So there's peaks and valleys, and people who are on chemotherapy and radiation are there, they go through treatment and then they have a period where they don't.

[174] So I did try to tell her, like when she told me she was going to go to nursing school, I was like, dude, are you crazy?

[175] But you have to remember at that point, she was going through a good spurt.

[176] And you're also taking information like the diapers and that was at the end.

[177] So in the end, she wasn't in school.

[178] She wasn't working at all.

[179] Putting the story into perspective and how it went through.

[180] So she first gets sick.

[181] She doesn't really start treatment right away, and then once she started treatment, she would be sick for a while, and then she would be okay for a month or two.

[182] The times where she was terribly, terribly ill was not when she was in nursing school.

[183] The nursing school, she seemed to be really on an upswing, and her attitude was awesome through most of this.

[184] It was like, I'm going to kick its ass, I'm going to, you know, nothing's going to stop me. I want to be a nurse, a diagnosis that's in a death sentence.

[185] We did try to talk to her.

[186] And she was not going to, when we were doing like heavy on the meal train and taking care of the children, that was not so much the in school part.

[187] And she was working very little.

[188] Like it was very sporadic.

[189] Once she was diagnosed, she didn't work for us full time.

[190] It was on and off, on and off, you know, a day here, a day there.

[191] And then when she worked at the prison, you heard Jen say that, like, the schedule was posted, but she wasn't working all the time.

[192] We did try to talk to her and tell her, oh, slow down a little bit, but you don't want to tell somebody who's dying.

[193] You can't do this.

[194] You want to encourage them.

[195] You do this.

[196] You go with your bad self.

[197] You get your degree.

[198] You go.

[199] You be a nurse.

[200] That's awesome.

[201] And we were trying to support her through that.

[202] So Carissa asks, was anyone else?

[203] ever able to verify that she passed away like a death certificate?

[204] It seems to be the number one question that I get asked.

[205] Do I have a death certificate?

[206] I don't.

[207] There is a marker stone at a cemetery here in town that has her name and her day to birth and day to death on it.

[208] And her mom put that there so that her kids would have something to visit.

[209] She was cremated.

[210] I tried to Google search the heck out of it to see if I could figure it out.

[211] It turns out it's really hard to find out unless you're a family member.

[212] I 100 % believe that she passed away.

[213] Jen 100 % believes that she passed away.

[214] There's pretty much no way in how she would have left her daughter.

[215] She did love her daughter and her son.

[216] But I know that there's no way that she could be ripped away from her kids.

[217] Like there's just no way.

[218] Tani asks, have you been able to trust?

[219] people and form new relationships slash friendships since this happened?

[220] If so, what has helped you?

[221] Um, it's really hard.

[222] No. It's super hard to, um, it's super hard to form new relationships and trust people.

[223] I mean, obviously I've made friends in 10 years, but it's really always in the back of my mind and it is really difficult to, you know, and it is really difficult to, let somebody in again.

[224] Carissa also asked, would you ever want to reconnect with her family members if you were given the chance?

[225] No. It would not be healthy for me. No, absolutely no. If I thought I could do it and then process some of it through that without it ripping my heart out, but I know myself.

[226] And I know that's not possible.

[227] Like, it would just reopen the wound.

[228] Have you thought about that if you were to speak to them to the children now?

[229] Or if they were to hear this, what you would want to communicate to them?

[230] Oh, gosh.

[231] I wasn't very close with the son, but the daughter was like a daughter to me. And I loved her so much.

[232] And she, oh, she's such an amazing kid, and she lives so bright.

[233] and smart and funny oh my gosh so funny and i absolutely love her and i would want her to know that like i did not choose to leave you i love you and i would never ever want you to feel like i wasn't loved you with all of my heart and I just had to protect myself and not be a part of your family anymore but I would never want you to think that I left you because I didn't not for a minute thank you for sharing that from the whole experience of doing the podcast what has that experience been like for you now that it's all sort of out there like what is the positive impact and the positive experience of like sharing your story with others been like it's been awesome it's been a really great experience like 98 % of it has been fan freakantastic it's awesome and it was nice to be able to talk about it freely and talk about it with you and know that you had my back and know that i'm just a human being i could say what i needed to say and know that you understood it and you had my back on it.

[234] It's been great letting a little piece of it go by talking about it.

[235] Finally, having people understand what actually happened.

[236] It's been a really great, good experience, except for the mean people online.

[237] Other than that, it's been fantastic.

[238] We will always have a different opinion than someone else on how they handle something, you know, or how they respond to something, and it doesn't mean that their trauma is less or their feelings are less valuable or any of that stuff you know like we're all different we're all going to process things differently the point of this conversation is not to pick apart those that are being vulnerable the point of this conversation is to lift those up that are sharing their experience and what they went through so that others who have been through similar experiences can feel validated and also to spread awareness on this disorder and the signs to look for you know, that's my purpose and that's our purpose and sharing your story.

[239] And I really hope that that landed for people and that they understood that this wasn't about telling a super crazy story while a very interesting story to listen to because it's intense.

[240] But the motivation that both you and I had and one of the reasons we connected right away was to help other people and to spread awareness about, you know, factitious disorder and how it not only affects the person, the patient, but everyone else around them.

[241] Yeah.

[242] That was perfectly said.

[243] I got a really interesting email from a practicing psychiatrist in Pennsylvania that I haven't vetted this person, but she says, hi, Tiffany.

[244] I'm a huge fan of your podcast since the first season.

[245] Thank you so much.

[246] This week, a few things came up in the show about mental health, and I wanted to send you some comments about them.

[247] This is long, but I hope it's interesting to read.

[248] It was, thank you.

[249] First of all.

[250] This week, T said a few things about the system being, quote, broken.

[251] I do understand her frustration and I agree with her, but I also wanted to gently respond with how incredibly resource deprived both mental health and social services are around the country, which I think was kind of our point.

[252] It's not definitely not the professionals in the industry's fault that they are resource deprived.

[253] And, you know, I just wanted to highlight that if that was how it came across in any way to anyone.

[254] I highly respect and appreciate the service that those people do every day.

[255] It's a hard job.

[256] And I'm really thankful that those people are out there that have the hearts for it and that are capable of doing it.

[257] That was my whole point with that when Sylvia was super, you know, I'm not doing well.

[258] I don't want to live anymore.

[259] When I called around town it was a there was no empty beds there was no room so there are so many people reaching out and needing help and there's no room or place for them it's not that the people who are in the mental health field are failing it's the system i sat in a hospital here in town for two days with somebody who drove into the emergency room and said i want to be 51 50 because i can't take it anymore.

[260] I'm so upset.

[261] I feel, you know, like I want to die.

[262] And there were no beds for that person for 48 hours.

[263] I sat in the emergency room with this person.

[264] And there was no place for them to go.

[265] However, it's not the people who are here practicing and working in the state of California are amazing.

[266] And they are doing great work.

[267] There's just not enough of them.

[268] And there's not enough help for people who can't afford it.

[269] She continues, I don't work for social services personally, but as a mandated reporter, I can tell you that in my state, they are limited to investigating reports where there is an immediate threat or death or serious injury to a child, at least most of the time.

[270] They just don't have the resources to investigate mental illness in parents, even if there is real emotional trauma happening, it sucks.

[271] She says when it comes to access to mental health, it is often the same.

[272] story actually live in one of the most resource -rich areas of the country and we still frequently cannot make referrals earlier than six weeks out because there just isn't the availability.

[273] I'm glad T's therapist was able to fit her in emergently, but I don't want people to get the impression that the mental health providers are putting up barriers out of malice or some kind of misplaced procedural issue.

[274] We really just don't have enough therapists and psychiatrists.

[275] It's even worse in rural areas.

[276] It also sucks.

[277] And I completely agree.

[278] And again, it's...

[279] That's my whole point.

[280] Right.

[281] That was my whole entire point as, yes, there are not the resources.

[282] You know, I don't want anybody who's struggling out there to feel like there aren't any resources for them.

[283] The National Domestic Violence Hotline can chat with somebody 24 -7.

[284] Their number is 1 -800 -799 safe.

[285] 7233 and they are again open 24 hours a day and free and the national suicide prevention lifeline is 1 -800 -273 -8255 and you can text or call them thank you so much cc she's got fancy letters after her name i'm going to try and look you up and find you so i do have uh two things one i do have a regret you listen back we all do season yeah would you Would you have liked to said anything different?

[286] Would you like to have not said something?

[287] And I do regret that I was very passionate and I, because I was very hurt and I guess that it just like flick the scab off of the wound.

[288] But we were talking about, you know, when her family told me that they were going to have a, you know, close service to just family.

[289] And I was like, fuck you, fuck you guys.

[290] I'm in retrospect, probably regret that a little bit.

[291] But at the time, that's how I felt.

[292] And at the time, I 100 % stand behind that that's how I felt, and I had every right to feel that way.

[293] However, it did come across because I did listen to it.

[294] It did come across a little harsh.

[295] While I want to say thank you for being really vulnerable and honest in sharing your story and your family, for sharing your story.

[296] I have really enjoyed getting to know you and I look forward to continuing to get to know you.

[297] It's a really brave and vulnerable thing that you have done, sharing something that is so personal and so traumatizing and so challenging.

[298] And I'm really sorry that you experienced that.

[299] And I'm really sorry you went through that.

[300] I love you and I just want you to know like your feelings are valid, your experience is valid, and you're really brave.

[301] I thank you.

[302] Lily.

[303] I know, Lily, pop.

[304] You think you know me, you don't know me well at all.

[305] You think you know me you don't know me well.

[306] You've listened to us, and now we want to hear from you.

[307] What did you think of this season?

[308] What did you think of the live episode?

[309] What did you think of season one?

[310] We can talk about all of it.

[311] Give us a call and leave us a voicemail at one, three, two, three, seven, nine, five, six, seven, eight.

[312] Unfortunately, the voicemail cuts off at three minute mark, so just keep that in mind.

[313] Also, by leaving a voicemail, you may end up hearing yourself on a future episode.

[314] So, yeah, we look forward to hearing from you.

[315] Something Was Wrong is written, recorded, edited, and produced by me, Tiffany Reese.

[316] All of the music by Gladrags.

[317] Hear their album Wonder Under on iTunes.

[318] Follow the hashtag Something Was Wrong Pod on Instagram.

[319] You can now purchase something was wrong merch at www .spreadless .com.

[320] The books referenced on this show can be found linked in the show notes.

[321] If you or someone you know is being abused, please contact the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1 -800 -799 Safe.

[322] That's 1 -800 -799 safe.

[323] 799 -7233.

[324] Thank you.

[325] If you'd like to help support the show, please consider leaving a five -star review on iTunes and sharing the podcast with your family and friends, and neighbor and garbage man and gynecologist, and record producer and ex -boyfriend.

[326] No, don't do that.

[327] Yeah, just like everyone you know.

[328] That would be cool.

[329] Thank you.

[330] Love you.

[331] Bye.

[332] If you like something was wrong, you can listen early and ad -free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.

[333] Prime members can listen ad -free on Amazon Music.

[334] Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at Wondery .com slash survey.

[335] Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught.

[336] I'm Sachi Cole.

[337] And I'm Sarah Haggy.

[338] And we're the host of scam influencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims and what's left once the facade falls away.

[339] We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment, but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit followed by Larry King and no real product to push.

[340] He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

[341] The infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Judice, what should have proven to be a major downfall, only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame.

[342] Follow Scam Fluencers on the Wondry app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[343] You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad -free right now on Wondry Plus.