109 - Project Artichoke

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hey, this is exciting.

[2] An all -new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[3] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster, detectives.

[4] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[5] Who killed Saz?

[6] And were they really after Charles?

[7] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[8] This season, murder hits close to home.

[9] With a threat against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[10] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[11] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[12] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[13] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfanakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[14] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[15] Goodbye.

[16] Do da da da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da.

[17] What'd you say?

[18] My favorite murder.

[19] Oh, this is my favorite murder.

[20] The podcast.

[21] Thanks, everybody.

[22] Hey, we decided to start with song every episode.

[23] Do you like light jazz?

[24] So do we.

[25] Wow.

[26] It's getting more uncomfortable at the top of the show.

[27] The more, the longer we do it.

[28] Every time I hear our intros as we're doing them, I think of the person in a car with her friend who's like, you have to listen this podcast.

[29] Just please listen to it, Mom.

[30] You're going to love it.

[31] Right.

[32] And then the opening comes in and it's like, it gets better.

[33] It gets better.

[34] They do this all the time.

[35] They are always, it's like funny because it's always so uncomfortable.

[36] It's funny because it's so bad you don't want to listen to it.

[37] And that's what they call irony, mom.

[38] Mom, stop judging me. Mom, stop gripping the steering wheel like that.

[39] Can I tell you a mom story?

[40] Please.

[41] I, in the ongoing saga of my relationship with my lifetime relationship with my mother.

[42] It's always for life with those women.

[43] Forever!

[44] They're just there all the, every holiday.

[45] Oh, my God.

[46] Until they're not.

[47] That's so depressing.

[48] My mom's mom lived to be 104, so I've got a fucking wild to go.

[49] Yeah.

[50] That's really.

[51] heartening.

[52] So I told her, I sent out an email to my family being like, hey, we're playing the Orphium on, you know, in March in L .A. And you guys, I want you to come.

[53] It's like a big fucking deal, you know?

[54] It's like L .A. hometown show.

[55] The Orphium's a gorgeous theater.

[56] I'm like excited.

[57] It's so good.

[58] And my dad wrote back, oh, be there, you know, plus five.

[59] And it was, you know, this person.

[60] Of course we're going to go.

[61] And then my mom wrote back, literally, this is all she wrote.

[62] What time?

[63] No, I'm saying what time.

[64] Because it was a question mark.

[65] What time?

[66] What time, period?

[67] Yeah.

[68] What time?

[69] I'm saying it as it was written.

[70] And you know that was her inflection.

[71] You know that was her.

[72] And I know that's how 71 -year -old's right emails.

[73] You know what I mean?

[74] Like, they don't.

[75] It's just get any letter out that you can and hit send.

[76] This is coming from a woman, too, who went to fucking D .C. for like a trip and called and left a voicemail and said, I won't have long distance.

[77] so call John if you need anything.

[78] How was she getting hold of you?

[79] Long distance isn't a thing anymore.

[80] Did she mean cellular service?

[81] I don't think, no, I don't think she knows that everyone has long distance.

[82] Like that that's the thing.

[83] This isn't a fucking 10, 10, 10, 3, 2, 1 anymore.

[84] Mom, I'm calling you on a calling card, so I have to make this quick.

[85] I only have seven minutes left.

[86] Oh, Jan. Janet, come on.

[87] Standing ovation.

[88] at the or if she goes if it's not past her fucking bedtime what time what time what she what she was saying is please georgia when you communicate with the family get really specific i think so too just let's get organized in these emails so it's my fault yeah that you're playing the orfam hey guys we're playing the orfam on march 16th hopefully you can come it's not sold out as it i don't know they release some tickets so it might not be completely i don't know hey look i mean if you're interested and look into it i don't know You don't have.

[89] I mean, do your thing.

[90] We feel like you've given us enough already.

[91] We don't want to make you do anything.

[92] My family on the other hand needs to fucking be there.

[93] They need to step up.

[94] What have they done for me?

[95] Now, do you know that my father actually, my sister called me along the same line.

[96] And my father called her and said, when he heard we were playing the orphan, said, let's go down and be there for that show.

[97] So my sister's like, oh, my God, dad wants to come down.

[98] It's a big deal because his hips all screwed up.

[99] So he walks like an orangutan.

[100] I get it.

[101] You've seen it.

[102] So then my sister's like, so I think we're going to come down.

[103] And my sister's getting all excited or whatever.

[104] And then I said, that all sounds great.

[105] You know, we'll make it all work for dad.

[106] And I said, but you do know that we're coming back up to San Francisco in the fall.

[107] And the second, I sent the message of there's a possibility, this won't be the last show that you possibly could come to.

[108] Yeah.

[109] My dad goes, oh, forget it.

[110] Just immediately, immediately bails on the plan.

[111] I want him to come, guys.

[112] It'll be like our families are there.

[113] And then Marty and your dad could hang out.

[114] Oh my God.

[115] My dad will just shout over Marty's head.

[116] Can we talk about our double date with your dad?

[117] Please.

[118] One of the most romantic evenings that I've experienced in a while.

[119] Fucking, he was down here and Karen, sheepishly, one of those, you don't have to do it.

[120] It's totally fun if you don't want to.

[121] I know it's weird and it's a big, do you guys want to go to dinner?

[122] And Vince and I, of course, like, yes.

[123] It felt like we had just gotten off like a nine -day tour together where I was like, hey, how about you make more plans.

[124] I know.

[125] You guys don't want to see me and I also another Kilgariff, but please come.

[126] Please come.

[127] Oh my God, it was the best.

[128] We went to fucking fancy pants.

[129] Mooseau and Franks.

[130] Which is like the fanciest thing.

[131] My dad is, he's obsessed with Musso and Franks.

[132] I love it.

[133] He, we went there.

[134] He also has great memories because we went there I think it might have been 15 years ago and I was with some of my friends one of whom was my friend Kevin Sessa, who decided he was going to drink whiskey neat as his drink.

[135] So everyone else was ordering beer and wine or whatever.

[136] And he orders, he basically orders a double shot of whiskey.

[137] And my dad goes, Jesus, do you have a gunfight in the morning?

[138] And then that was like legend for a while.

[139] And when my dad said make the reservation, I want to go to, he kept joking about it where I'm like, dad, if you actually want to go to Muslim frakes, we can.

[140] He's like, well, I would like to go there.

[141] And then he goes, remember we went there and your friend was drinking all that whiskey?

[142] I was like, Yeah, for someone who drinks that as much as my dad does, it really stood up to him that my friends were doing whiskey shots.

[143] Little did he know that that's all I drank constantly.

[144] It was the best.

[145] It was so good.

[146] And I'm like, meeting someone's dad and like, this is why you're this way.

[147] You know what I mean?

[148] Like, not even like, he didn't do anything or say.

[149] He said some funny shit.

[150] But like, just to be like, oh, this is what we're raised by.

[151] Okay, this is good to know.

[152] Yes.

[153] And then I could see you getting embarrassed when he said certain things.

[154] He did certain things that I didn't give a shit about.

[155] Well, there was points where he was talking directly over Georgia.

[156] Like, Georgia would go, da, duh, duh, and he would just, well, and then I finally realized, and I was mortified.

[157] And I realized, oh, he can't hear her because.

[158] It was really out in restaurant.

[159] My dad has, he is such bad fireman hearing that if you have to have a, over 70 -year -old hearing.

[160] Yeah, it's over, but also all the bells.

[161] That's why he started telling you guys that story of all the bells going in all the houses every time there was a fire.

[162] that's how the that's how the bell system was set up in the firehouses in san francisco so he the bells just were going off all day long in their ears oh i see what you're saying so they basically like all of hearing damage from like 60s to the 80s or whenever they put in their new system like i get it you said it's you were like so embarrassed about it and i don't care and totally understood what's going on well it just i didn't want you to think he was a blow hard because he's really not but he just kept starting conversations because he didn't look at Georgia, like he would start it and look up and Jordan would be like, oh, like you were trying to ask him a question.

[163] I loved it.

[164] I just can't sit in silence.

[165] There wasn't much.

[166] There wasn't.

[167] It was actually, it was really, really fun.

[168] Vince and I adored him.

[169] Okay, good.

[170] Adored him.

[171] He really is like an American classic and just a good time.

[172] Yeah.

[173] There are a few people that don't have fun with Jim Kilgarov.

[174] No, Jim is our favorite.

[175] Unless you wear a keep America Make America Great Again hat And then he'll tell you to take it fucking off Your dad and my dad are not going to get along We'll just make a no hats rule And everybody will be fine Okay great Do you have any Yo yeah It's the corrections corner that has needed to happen Since the moment the last episode dropped You've practiced it twice so far Because it's so unfair You practice it twice at the Salt Lake City shows over the weekend which were fucking awesome and fun and thank you salt like city thank you salt like city so much fun what an amazing weekend we had already just had uh so much fun in cleveland and columbus like we were just every show is so fun and it was like our last shows on tour yeah until europe and it was just it was great it was so fun it was so gorgeous in that city yeah um so but the interesting thing was the we actually did a show thursday night which we almost never do so the episode had dropped that day.

[176] So we were real time with the podcast.

[177] So weird.

[178] So I got to do basically a real time hours later corrections corner explaining that yes, in fact, the reason that Georgia had didn't hear about the tree trimmer murder, the Matthew Hoffman guy that had all the leaves in his living room and that creepy story.

[179] That had happened in November.

[180] And I was like, how did I not hear about this?

[181] And I was like, you know why you haven't heard about it?

[182] Because it's so fresh off the presses.

[183] Well, actually.

[184] And in truth, it had happened.

[185] in 2010 in November of 2010.

[186] So I was eight years off, and that's why you hadn't heard of it.

[187] And I actually looked at the, thank God I still had the article on my like reading tab.

[188] And I opened it up like, I bet you this is one of those articles that has a current date, but then they're re -quoting.

[189] There's some lie I made up to myself.

[190] Nope, right there.

[191] It was, it was the article was from 2011 reporting back to a couple months before.

[192] you think one time you put in 2017 on accident and it came no it's purely i wanted it to be i wanted it to have just happened we're so excited like this fresh murder like we always do old shit it's gonna be like exciting yes and i feel like with the way um the murderer rino community is with the way people tell us stuff the way twitter is if there was like it just felt like to me like i had stumbled upon a thing that i found first which is insanity when you think about like how quick quickly those stories go up on the Facebook page or how quickly people share things.

[193] One person will like, will like tweet us about it and then you just want to hear about it again.

[194] Right.

[195] So I could see that.

[196] I just think I got so obsessed with those leaves that everything else kind of went faded out around it.

[197] It was pretty fucking great.

[198] I mean, it was great.

[199] It was a fun experience.

[200] Sorry, you have to, you had to.

[201] I'm done apologizing for it.

[202] This is the third time, third and final.

[203] I fucking did it live to everybody.

[204] And we'll never talk about it again.

[205] We're taking that episode down.

[206] we're going to take it down it's the last episode Stephen Stephen accidentally deleted it oh no yeah so I hope everyone's happy but now you know I'll be better at checking dates and everybody it was really funny the people who did post on Twitter were trying to be so tactful and light about it it where it was like um so I don't want to be this person but you're a fucking decade off friend I was just like oh man well it happens can't get it right I wanted to shout to shout out.

[207] Oh God, what am I a fucking VJ?

[208] Yes, you are.

[209] I am.

[210] Didn't you know?

[211] I didn't know.

[212] You're J .J. Jackson.

[213] One of the gifts we got, of course, we had a ton of stuff in Utah because everyone's Mormon and they just like craft like.

[214] Not everyone's sports.

[215] They're all Mormon.

[216] They're wizards.

[217] And so one of the things we got was like a beautiful, there was two earrings and two necklaces.

[218] I found out it's called.

[219] quilled where you take a piece of paper and you turn it into like a flower or whatever the fuck yeah quilled so this girl named mandy lee took pages from my sweet adrina and made us gorgeous jewelry out of it gorgeous and so she you can buy it at um artsy heartsy boutique on etsy and see it and so i was looking her up she also did that that adorable line drawing or like stick figurey drawing of small foreign faction of us in a band and you and I are playing the old one with Elvis on the drums.

[220] She made that too.

[221] So she sells mugs and t -shirts and shit of that art print as well as my sweet Adriena quilled jewelry and like she does the quilled jewelry is like her thing and she does a ton of Harry Potter book pages.

[222] Oh, nice.

[223] I know a bunch of people who are going to like that.

[224] Yeah.

[225] It's like really pretty fucking jewelry.

[226] And then it also is from my sweet Adrina, which is...

[227] There were little strips of paper on the back.

[228] Like, it would be the thing that the earrings were, like, pressed into or whatever.

[229] And then there would just be a strip of, like, my sister, Vera, it was like, these lines from that book.

[230] So you knew what it was from.

[231] I love it.

[232] And, I mean, we get so...

[233] We're sitting amongst a pile, like, post -Steven stopping by the PO box, picking up boxes, like, fucking cool as shit gifts.

[234] Yeah.

[235] Someone...

[236] Someone drunkenly accidentally...

[237] Went on eBay and drunkenly bought six packs of true crime trading cards.

[238] Yes.

[239] Only to find that in their state bought six boxes of packs of trading cards.

[240] So sent us each a box.

[241] We get a whole box.

[242] I don't know how many are in here, but it's amazing.

[243] A ton, right?

[244] Yeah.

[245] I'm just, it's just, we're so lucky.

[246] It's like this is the box they would sell at the store.

[247] It's so cool.

[248] Oh, also some, this is another additional corrections corner that somebody pointed out.

[249] that we weren't just talking about the Terminator and Robocop.

[250] But you would also fold it in a little bit of total recall into that story as well.

[251] I wasn't even going to correct that because I feel like none of that's a mistake.

[252] It's just fucking fate.

[253] And it's how this.

[254] What did you say to the podcast?

[255] Someone tweeted you and was like, I hate to tell you guys, but you're, you were talking about two different movies and you said like, you tweeted back, are you new?

[256] Oh, no, no, no. it was like it was basically a guy who and I'm sure he was a family but he was yeah he was just going they were talking about this but then they actually turned it into this and then this uh and they never stopped it was like this basically a statement ever were like we never acknowledged it or even knew it was happening and I just wrote back you must be new here because it's just like when doesn't that fucking happen that's why I wasn't current corrections court of that thing it's because like we just fucking kept going and I believed you and you believed in me I could see it all in my head.

[257] There might have been a little bit of men in black in there, too, for all we know.

[258] Here's the thing.

[259] We can't wait to hear your podcast and how great that's going to fucking go.

[260] And how zero mistakes are ever fucking made when it's on the cuff.

[261] Let us fucking talk.

[262] And one of you has a whiskey.

[263] Oh, I just also wanted to say, I just want to give a public formal apology to my dog, George, who?

[264] Oh, my God.

[265] George went viral.

[266] Did you see this, Stephen?

[267] George Fiercely private My fiercely private dog George who doesn't want to be A part of this podcast in any way I did a little Video of her because she always drinks my Fucking water She didn't just drink You made a video where she basically If dogs could double Flip you off Yes She fucking did a walkby Drink out of your mug And then Karen dryly going That's mine That's mine It's the best And it's only a four second video I highly recommend if you want to express yourself in any way, do it under five seconds.

[268] People really appreciate it.

[269] Totally.

[270] But she looks right at me and then when I say that's mine, she wags her tail and walks away.

[271] Because like she knows she's not supposed to be doing it.

[272] It's very cute.

[273] But then all these people.

[274] She's also gorgeous.

[275] So it's like.

[276] She's a lovely lady.

[277] I like that dog because she looks different.

[278] Like when she's drinking the water, her ears are all long and flat and she looks like a hound.

[279] But if she hears like a squirrel in the backyard, then her ears flap up and she looks like a lab.

[280] Like she just changes constantly.

[281] I love it.

[282] She's like Ted Bundy.

[283] Sometimes she wears a really big turtle neck.

[284] And then sometimes she wears a mock turtle neck.

[285] Teeth are real fucked up.

[286] That's what got her.

[287] But she ended up becoming a Twitter moment.

[288] And then so all these people that all these listeners are like, ha, ha, ha, George is famous.

[289] You got so mad.

[290] I saw your response to what?

[291] This is fucked up?

[292] I know.

[293] Well, the first, whoever sent it to me first, I thought they were making a joke.

[294] yeah and so then when i looked at it was like what the hell like what is happening because i don't either the whole moment's page i don't understand yeah it's like is it just for you well meanwhile i'm sitting here with elvis petting him and all he's been doing his whole life is trying to get fucking famous on the internet and he's like this fucking bitch george this fucking bitch comes in off the side uh -uh she's very mad and she's not talking to me yeah Elvis will ride her down the set of stairs you know he did that once with a dog really i found a stray i brought it into my backyard.

[295] I lived like up a staircase.

[296] And I went in to get some food for this stray.

[297] It was like, like George, like a dog that size.

[298] And then I came out to like squeeze through the door to bring this dog the food.

[299] And Elvis broke through the door.

[300] And the dog was at the top of the stairs waiting for the food.

[301] Elvis jumped on the dog's back, rode it down the stairs and chased it.

[302] Rode a dog and just chased it out of the yard.

[303] Wow.

[304] And the dog didn't come back.

[305] And he's like, I'll take that food.

[306] please.

[307] That's mine now.

[308] Oh, what a good point.

[309] Okay.

[310] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[311] Absolutely.

[312] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[313] Exactly.

[314] And if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

[315] But did you know that they also power in -person sales?

[316] That's right.

[317] Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere.

[318] Online, in store, on social media, and beyond.

[319] Give your point of sales system a serious upgrade.

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[321] From accepting payments to managing inventory, they have everything you need to sell in person.

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[324] With Shopify, we have a powerful partner for managing our sales, and if you're a business owner, you can too.

[325] Connect with customers in line and online.

[326] Do retail right with Shopify.

[327] Sign up for a $1 per month code is all lowercase.

[328] Go to Shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today.

[329] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[330] Goodbye.

[331] Hey, this is exciting.

[332] An all new season of only murders in the building is coming to Hulu on August 27th.

[333] Steve Martin, Martin Short, and Selena Gomez are back as your favorite podcaster detectives.

[334] But there's a mystery hanging over everyone.

[335] Who killed Saz?

[336] And were they really after Charles?

[337] Why would someone want to kill Charles?

[338] This season, murder hits close to home with a threat.

[339] against one of their own, the stakes are higher than ever.

[340] Plus, the gang is going to Hollywood to turn their podcast into a major movie.

[341] Amid the glitz and glamour of Los Angeles, more mysteries and twists arise.

[342] Who knows what will happen once the cameras start to roll?

[343] Get ready for the stariest season yet with Merrill Streep, Zach Alfenakis, Eugene Levy, Eva Longoria, Melissa McCarthy, DeVine, Joy Randolph, Molly Shannon, and more.

[344] Only Martyrs in the Building, premieres August 27th, streaming only on Hulu.

[345] Goodbye.

[346] Who's first?

[347] Uh, uh, yeah, it's you.

[348] Yes.

[349] Drinking.

[350] I love going first.

[351] Drink if you're first.

[352] Drink if you're first.

[353] Drink if you're wearing a house dress.

[354] Apsifak and Luke.

[355] You know what?

[356] I left my favorite house dress in, uh, Cleveland.

[357] You did?

[358] How?

[359] I just left it on, there was a bath and I left it near the bath.

[360] Oh, that sucks.

[361] I'm so sad.

[362] So this is my replacement.

[363] Is it the magenta one?

[364] The one I loved so much.

[365] It's like a vintage commodo.

[366] Yeah.

[367] Yeah, that was a good one.

[368] It's very culturally, what's it called?

[369] Appropriating, but.

[370] Well, you know what it is that you shouldn't have worn the kabuki makeup?

[371] That was what bothered me the most about it.

[372] As it should.

[373] Okay, so this is something I found or rediscovered, I should say, from one of the articles of like, I just found like the 10 weirdest Unsolved Mysteries segments.

[374] Okay.

[375] Are you going into, are you doing this?

[376] thing where now you're Googling like, bizarre, murder.

[377] Yes.

[378] Okay.

[379] There's a lot of good, there's not a lot of good YouTube videos, but there's a lot of YouTube videos of those like the top five, whatever.

[380] And for some reason, people use voiceover, like, um, computer voices.

[381] Yes.

[382] But you can find a lot of interesting stuff there.

[383] Um, and so this is one of them that I had forgotten about, but I know I saw when I was a kid.

[384] Uh, it's creepy as fuck.

[385] Here we go.

[386] Okay.

[387] On June 8th, 1989, sidebar, my ninth birthday.

[388] Oh.

[389] In the Vancouver, British Columbia suburb of Richmond, the body of 44 -year -old nurse Cindy James was found in the yard of abandoned house.

[390] Oh, I forgot to say that this is about the death of Cindy James.

[391] Cindy had been drugged and strangled, and her hands and feet had been tied behind her back.

[392] Her feet had been tied behind her back?

[393] well if she's hogtied yeah she wasn't oh but the police weren't sure if Cindy's death was an accident or if a murder or if she had committed suicide what by tying her hands okay okay okay yes exactly okay all right so let's get into it all right okay Cindy Jones who if she were to be played in a you know recreation of fucking unsolved mystery of this story yeah or would be played by Vana White oh 1980s Vana White so just like ideal everybody's 80s ideal blonde beautiful blonde vivacious bright woman she's 19 year old nursing student when she meets at her the hospital at Vancouver general hospital she meets Dr. Roy make peace sounds fake right he's a psychiatrist and he's 18 years older than her and married with two kids but they fall in love oh so 19 year old Cindy falls in love with him and sorry he's 28 how 18 years older than her oh 18 years so it's 18 plus 19 41 I'm truly the last person you should have asked that question that right stephen no it's 401 nobody here knows numbers it's 37 it's 37 it's 37 okay go to college kids oh sorry can I quickly side always there's somebody that tweeted and was like Karen keep anytime Karen wants to name something boring she calls them an accountant and it's like it's like the third accountant we've heard from that's like we're really not as boring as you say we are and i feel really bad i apologize to that person who tweeted and i just want to say what's going to be the next one then it has to be something else i'll think about it and it'll be something maybe joky or more lighthearted and the one that'll hurt people's feelings less but they'll still be mad at you whoever those people are communications majors how about omish the omish that's boring okay but they can't contact me What about candlemakers?

[394] Good.

[395] Yes.

[396] That's a hobby.

[397] Okay.

[398] Fucking, it's tidal wave of candle maker emails.

[399] I make a good living.

[400] Fuck you.

[401] I have insurance.

[402] Oh my God.

[403] I have insurance.

[404] Okay.

[405] Here we are.

[406] Yes.

[407] They fall in love with each other.

[408] Within four days of Roy's divorce, he and Cindy are married.

[409] Four days.

[410] Uh -huh.

[411] So 19 -year -old Cindy, a 27 -year -old.

[412] Roy are married, which is like, okay, so I'm 37.

[413] If I were boning a fucking 19 year old, you'd be like, what are you doing?

[414] Right?

[415] Yeah, that is too young.

[416] Too young.

[417] And also.

[418] But it's also the 80s, you know, years.

[419] He's having a midlife crisis, obviously.

[420] His wife and two kids are like, I'm sorry, what?

[421] Yeah.

[422] Okay.

[423] He's a doctor, you say?

[424] He's a psychiatrist.

[425] Okay.

[426] So, okay, so they get married.

[427] Cindy graduates from nursing school.

[428] Later, she becomes an administrator at a program for children with behavioral and emotional issues.

[429] She's like the best.

[430] So after 16 years of marriage, they didn't have kids.

[431] Cindy ends things with Dr. Make Peace.

[432] This seems to be amicable.

[433] That's in 1982.

[434] They split up.

[435] And that's when her life hits the fan.

[436] So four months into their trial separation, Cindy starts to receive anonymous phone calls from a man who knows her name, knows where she lives, is like threatening her sometimes or just breathing into the phone sometimes and it was really scaring the shit out of her it's very scary yeah after a week after the call start someone smashes her window uh and breaks in well she breaks and smashes her window while she's out and later that same week an intruder uh somehow has a key to her house gets into the house and stabs her pillow over a dozen times, which is like, shit, man. I just realized, I think I saw the headline for the story and the like Getty image for the story, because there was a knife on a pillow and it said, this was, like, recently, and it was like, this is the most fucked up X story you'll ever hear.

[437] X story?

[438] E .X. I don't know.

[439] What's X mean?

[440] Like her ex -husband.

[441] I was like, is that MK.

[442] Ultra?

[443] I don't know about.

[444] I was X stands for a word I don't want to say I get it I'm wrong I'm wrong yes no you're you might be right okay but you're not okay but it could be got it is it we don't know we certainly don't know and we're not going to say right now is it it it's it might be an unsolved mystery a go oh we don't know shit context clues you said it four times yeah but that show was it on has been like this came this is like the fucking 80s so like you know or 90s from the 90s okay blah blah blah blah 16 years or much.

[445] They break up.

[446] Should hits the fan.

[447] Threatening stabs or pillow.

[448] Okay.

[449] Bizarre notes written in kidnapping font, aka my favorite murder, logo font.

[450] Yes.

[451] Begin to appear on her doorstep and on her windshield of her car.

[452] One card has a picture of a woman who looks like Cindy, aka Vana White.

[453] The woman's eyes have been scratched out.

[454] And another time the woman's throat, like there's red ink around her throat.

[455] The police investigate but couldn't track anyone, and the phone calls she were getting were too short to be traced, so they can't figure out who's doing this.

[456] Maybe somebody who knows how tracing calls works, though.

[457] Ding -dong.

[458] Great idea.

[459] Thank you.

[460] Other things happen, like her porch lights are smashed.

[461] Her phone lines get cut.

[462] All these things keep fucking happening.

[463] She freaks out.

[464] She decides to move, and on January 27, 1982, the first physical attack occurs.

[465] Fuck.

[466] Cindy's good friend and neighbor, Agnes Woodcock.

[467] leave it alone pause for dramatic effect pause for conversation throughout the office had agreed to spend the night so Cindy would feel safer so Agnes sorry how old is Agnes 72?

[468] I should hope that's a non -solution is this going to become another Bonnie where we at that's a non -solution inviting an Agnes over is yes come on yet you what is is Agnes a fucking Navy seal then get her out of there you don't need company if you're if you feel threatened get someone that's threatening i mean maybe agnes is a fucking bodybuilder perhaps let's not you tell i'll let you tell let's not cast aspersions okay this ends with agnes being a bodybuilder no no it doesn't that's the big reveal that big reveal okay agnes gets there around 930 at night cindy's not answering the door so she goes around to go to the back oh no and she hears moaning and agnes finds cindy on the ground with a black nylon stocking tied around her neck and so there's some on her body and there's they also find later a needle mark on her arm so Cindy tells authorities that she had been taking a load of boxes out to the garage you know because she's moving and shit yep and finds that the light was out but in the dark someone grabs her from behind she felt a pinprick on her arm and she thinks she must have been drug because that's all she remembers from the incident and the police are like this is crazy we're gonna look into it they look into her ex husband X right like stands for your ex remember right he's got an alibi for the time of the attack and investigators aren't able to find any signs of any attacker at all and there are never any calls when the police are doing 24 hour surveillance there's never any attacks when that's happening they always happen when the police aren't around and again the calls are untraceable so the police are starting to doubt Cindy's stories her parents thought the attacker clearly is smart enough to fucking not come the fuck around when there's surveillance.

[469] Her friends and family tried to convince her to move into actually like an apartment building where there's more people around maybe to get a vicious dog or something but she's like I'm not fucking letting this take over my life.

[470] No. And they also word because she would take, she had a small dog that she loved and she would take the dog out for walks at like 3 a .m. I wouldn't stop doing that and they were like we're freaking out about it, but they thought it was weird that she wouldn't stop doing that.

[471] Yeah, you have to adjust a little bit if you are being threatened in some way.

[472] Right.

[473] That whole thing of, I'm going to live my life exactly the way that's not, yeah.

[474] But she does move into a new house.

[475] She paints her car and she changes her last name and that's how she becomes Cindy James.

[476] So, she also hires a private investigator named Ozzy Caban, Caban, Ozzie Caban, which is like the best private investigator name ever.

[477] It's pretty right.

[478] OZZ Y, i .e. Osborne?

[479] I .E. Like Davis.

[480] Okay.

[481] He, uh, he says that she would be evasive at times and was withholding information from him and police.

[482] Um, but he did believe everything she was saying.

[483] He did think that she had a stalker and an attacker.

[484] Um, her mother thought that, uh, because she was being evasive because she was threatened and feared for her family's life.

[485] And that's why that was happening.

[486] her private investigator installed security lights around her house and gave her two -way radio and a panic button just in case.

[487] Oh, that's good.

[488] Yeah.

[489] So one night, Ozzy hears strange sounds coming from the radio and rushes to Cindy's house.

[490] He finds Cindy lying unconscious in the hallway.

[491] It's like break down the door.

[492] She has a pairing knife through her hand and also like a note in it.

[493] So like they're pairing knife through her note in a hand.

[494] You know what I'm saying?

[495] Like stuck through to the ground?

[496] I don't know how deep.

[497] I don't know what.

[498] Or like wherever she was though.

[499] Yeah, she was lying unconscious and then they put a note and a paring knife in her hand.

[500] The note said, you are dead, bitch.

[501] Fuck.

[502] All she remembered from that attack was that a needle it was put into her arm.

[503] And also she seemed to remember that it was more than one person.

[504] Like there might have been two or three assailants at the time.

[505] Like a couple of the attacks.

[506] no fingerprints are found there's no clues there's no leads aside from Cindy's injuries there's no evidence anyone else have been in the house so investigators are frustrated with Cindy and they are like this chick is fucking doing this on her own they think she is staging all of this so hoping to convince investigators to take her more seriously Cindy's like give me a fucking polygraph she fails the polygraph twice oh no the operator suggests the stress she was under might have affected the results and she's too embarrassed she's embarrassed so she wants the investigation to be shut down she refuses to sign her statement and she says it's because she's afraid of her family then december 11th nineteen eighty five a cyclist finds Cindy lying in a ditch six miles from her home she's dazed and semi -conscious she's suffering from hypothermia has cuts and bruises all over her body and she, again, had a black nylon stocking around her neck.

[507] Fuck.

[508] All she's wearing is a man's work boot and glove.

[509] She doesn't remember anything that could help with the investigation.

[510] Man. And then one night she has her friends, Agnes, our friend Agnes, and her husband spend the night to keep her safe.

[511] Her husband's there.

[512] All right.

[513] But he's tiny.

[514] But he's a little.

[515] He's pocket -sized.

[516] A little baby.

[517] They are all woken up in the middle of the night.

[518] because the basement of the house is on fucking fire.

[519] No. Yeah.

[520] The phone line had been cut.

[521] So Agnes husband fucking, Mr. Agnes fucking runs out and sees a man standing at the curb and yells to him to call the fire department.

[522] But the man just runs off, which is like, but everyone says like, the man just ran off and everything you listen to.

[523] And then it's like, maybe he ran to fucking call 911.

[524] Oh, that's true.

[525] You know what I mean?

[526] Yeah, he doesn't.

[527] He's like, okay.

[528] on time.

[529] Yeah.

[530] I'm doing what you told me to do.

[531] Yeah, I'm going to run off.

[532] Maybe he ran off and called 911.

[533] Maybe.

[534] We don't know.

[535] Maybe he didn't.

[536] Maybe he started the fire.

[537] Maybe he didn't.

[538] Maybe he was scared of yelling.

[539] And he just ran.

[540] Maybe he was walking his dog in the middle of the night.

[541] We don't know.

[542] Police determine that the fire was started from inside the house because they saw no fingerprints on the window.

[543] They think the perp would have used that window to get in.

[544] There's no fingerprints.

[545] It's fucking Jean Bonnet all over again.

[546] They determined that Cindy must have staged the incident.

[547] And there was also another fire that happened another time that they think she staged.

[548] Letters and phone calls continue.

[549] Uh, Cindy's like fucking no one will believe me that I'm being stalked and threatened and attacked.

[550] She's freaking out about it.

[551] In June 1985, she tells, she's like going crazy.

[552] She tells her physician that she wants to die.

[553] So she's diagnosed with severe depression and committed to, uh, the psych ward at a hospital in North Vancouver.

[554] Yeah.

[555] So while she's there, she's examined by a psychiatrist who says that Cindy's, he determines Cindy's troubles are, quote, self -initiated.

[556] He said she'd fallen into a, quote, a psychogenic fugue, an altered consciousness stemming from a deep -seated trauma and that she wasn't even aware that she was behind everything.

[557] Mm -hmm.

[558] So she's there for 10 weeks and then is released.

[559] Okay.

[560] What do you think so far?

[561] I don't like that.

[562] okay it frustrates me here's a thing and this is this is clearly uh just off the top of my head but you don't cut your own phone line you don't stab your own hand yeah like people there are people who do things like this all the time and they do it in a way like the idea that you would be going past the point of normal like i'm trying to swindle people but like i think personally psychopaths or people that try to manipulate a bunch of people at once by like oh my life is in terror will not harm themselves to do that or will like not you know what I mean okay but they'll add to it they harm their children Munchausen yeah but that's not them that's an extension of them you but there is Munchausen their hand does not get stabbed well and also Munchausen's would be that would be an additional kind of issue but this is that thing of like if they're trying to say like because what would the point of that be getting the attention of the police?

[563] Like, she wants police attention?

[564] I don't know.

[565] Or emergency attention or something?

[566] What would the point of strangling yourself with a nylon be and wake up in the ditch with hypothermia?

[567] Like, what is she getting?

[568] What would the benefit be?

[569] Yeah.

[570] Is my...

[571] That's a good question.

[572] I couldn't be furring my brow further in total confusion and what the fuck.

[573] Okay, let's keep going because it gets fucking weirder.

[574] Oh.

[575] Boop, boop, boop.

[576] No one does that.

[577] Okay.

[578] Hold on.

[579] Okay.

[580] She gets out after 10 weeks.

[581] Then on October 26, 1986, 1988, she's attacked for the fifth time.

[582] Fuck.

[583] An RCMP officer, mounted police.

[584] Royal Canadian.

[585] Mounted police officer.

[586] Discovered her unconscious in her car, nude from the waist down.

[587] Her hands are tied behind her back, and she's squeezing the panic button of her silent alarm.

[588] There's duct tape over her mouth.

[589] There's bruising and swelling.

[590] her one of her eyes and she has a black nylon stocking tied around her neck again she's dressed to the hospital and but no one else's fingerprints are at the scene there's they bring in a fucking police dog there's no scent to pick up at all there's no indication that anyone else was present okay she finally tells police that her torment her is her ex -husband roy make piece they encourage her they want her to phone him and confront him and tape the conversation.

[591] He, Roy denies any involvement during the conversation, and in fact, he had, he gave the police a recording from his own answering machine that contained a death threat.

[592] You want to hear it?

[593] Yeah.

[594] Okay.

[595] Yes.

[596] Do you want to?

[597] Yes.

[598] Mm. What?

[599] No, I do.

[600] Okay.

[601] No. Whose podcast is that?

[602] Oh, shout out to the trail went cold.

[603] with wrong and worders.

[604] Sorry, I stole that.

[605] What the fuck?

[606] And so everyone, I mean, Reddit loves this fucking story.

[607] Like, it sounds like a woman.

[608] I've definitely read about it before.

[609] Yeah.

[610] It does sound like a woman.

[611] It does.

[612] So Roy thinks that Cindy has multiple personalities and isn't even aware that she's doing these things to himself.

[613] But he's like, I, but I'm not behind this.

[614] And they tend to believe him.

[615] Mm -hmm.

[616] The psychiatrist.

[617] Yeah.

[618] Hold on.

[619] Incoming.

[620] here's Roy and then a train comes by okay so she had been given those two light detector tests and had been showing deceit in them but she's given a third one uh and when she's asked if she staged one of the attacks uh she says no and she's judged to be truthful so there's like a little bit of both going on so after almost seven years after the harassment started Cindy is now 44 goes missing on May 25th.

[621] Shit.

[622] Her car is discovered in the parking lot of a small shopping mall where she had gone that day to deposit her check and to do some grocery shopping.

[623] In fact, her groceries are found in the car.

[624] There's blood on the driver's side door of the car and items from her wallet are found under the car.

[625] So this is after nearly a hundred well -documented cases of harassment including threatening phone calls and notes, vandalism, and arson.

[626] Three dead cats were found in her yard.

[627] Oh.

[628] I know.

[629] Sorry, Stephen and me. And five violent physical attacks between 1982 and 1989.

[630] Cindy's body is found dead.

[631] Two weeks after her car had been found, Cindy was found, her body is found by a construction worker in the garden of abandoned house, a mile and a half from where her car had been parked.

[632] There's a fucking photo of it online.

[633] It's not gruesome, but she said.

[634] Just horrible.

[635] Yeah.

[636] A black nylon stocking was tied tightly around her neck, and the autopsy showed that Cindy died from an overdose of morphine and other drugs.

[637] There was a needle mark in her arm, but they had been taken orally.

[638] Oh.

[639] So the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, they believe that her death was an accident or suicide.

[640] They think she was responsible for her own death.

[641] Okay.

[642] So there's a fucking crazy coroner's inquest because they're like, did she?

[643] Was she killed by her stalker finally after six and a half years?

[644] Or did you do this for herself?

[645] It becomes the lengthiest and most expensive public inquest in British Columbia's history.

[646] Wow.

[647] 84 witnesses are called to testify.

[648] There's a not specialist who comes and is like, so her arms were tied behind her back.

[649] And the not specialist shows how she could have tied up her legs, then tied up her arms in front of her and stepped through to tie them up behind her back.

[650] Oh, yeah.

[651] Within three minutes.

[652] could have shown he could have she could have done that also that uh so she had an overdose of morphine but so people are like how could she have done those things after taking morphine but she had taken them orally which meant she would have had like 15 to 60 minutes before that kicked in to tie herself up and to walk to that spot a mile and a half from her car so it was still possible she could have done it and maybe put the needle mark in her arm as a uh red herring yes that's the word thank you but also they didn't find a needle or a vial or anything near her body or near her car and sorry the idea is she ties herself up and then takes a mile and a half walk she takes a mile and a half walk or whatever gets to this place somehow and then does the tying then does the tying maybe takes the morphine then and then dies okay um so but also the weird but the weird thing too is that her body, the place where her body is found in the abandoned yard is really close to the street.

[653] You can see in an old video, like an old interview with her, with Ozzy, her fucking police dude.

[654] It's close to the street almost like someone should have smelled it or saw her and nobody did.

[655] So that was weird in Ozzy who still believed her was like, that must mean that she had been dumped later close at the time when she was found.

[656] Yeah, because somebody would have watched her walk in or.

[657] like seen her around.

[658] Or smelled a body or seen her body lying in the weeds.

[659] Oh, because it was there.

[660] Got it.

[661] Got it.

[662] So maybe.

[663] So, uh, well, okay, after three months of this coroner's inquest, the jury couldn't decide and called her death due to a quote, unknown event.

[664] Whoa.

[665] And the death is classified as undetermined and still is.

[666] So, of course, there's a shit ton of theories on the case.

[667] on Reddit especially.

[668] No one agrees.

[669] I'm like, did she, okay, did she have a mental illness?

[670] Dissociative identity disorders?

[671] One of the things.

[672] Munchausen, schizophrenia.

[673] Some people are like, maybe it started with an actual stalker and no one believed her.

[674] And so she kind of escalated it to make people believe her and accidentally did these things to herself.

[675] And then they look into like every single time she was found bound.

[676] It was near a place where she would have been found quickly.

[677] or she had the panic button in her hand.

[678] So she would have never been left, like, long enough.

[679] She knew that Agnes was coming at 9 .30 at night.

[680] She knew that she had the walkie -talkie with Ozzy.

[681] And so he heard weird sounds and came over.

[682] She put her own body, you know, she expected to be found that last time when she died because she was near a walkway.

[683] Oh, it's just that no one actually found.

[684] No one actually found.

[685] You know what I mean?

[686] It's like this is one of those cases where there's so many reasons behind both of the answers either she did it herself or there was an actual murderer and stalker and there's and and you know even when I was writing this and everyone has their own fucking opinion even when I was writing this I found myself leaving shit out because I thought she did it to herself so I found myself leaving stuff out that didn't support it and I made myself put it back in because it's not fair yeah so it's really easy to do sure well and also you just want to make sense of it.

[687] Yeah.

[688] Also, to me, I'm like, obviously this, but it's not obvious.

[689] Also, I feel like she would have had, and maybe no one's talking about this part, because it would be so disrespectful of the dead.

[690] Did she have any signs of any mental illness before this stalking thing started?

[691] Because if not, if she was just regular pants and going about her day and handling things, then that idea, it is so easy to call somebody crazy and be like, oh, this is a thing, oh, I can write this off because it's something, she's just doing it to herself.

[692] Yeah.

[693] Which is like, but what, like, what for?

[694] Well, it's a real, that's a great question.

[695] And what's frustrating too about this case, which probably makes it so interesting, too, is that you really only have these facts of her stuff, of what happened to her after her divorce.

[696] So we don't know.

[697] I couldn't find anything about her before she met her husband.

[698] Right.

[699] So it's hard to tell the psychiatrist that she went to and she got committed.

[700] said that there was it's from past trauma so who the fuck knows what that means and she had this you know like everyone's saying that she had this traumatic life event with her divorce but they by all accounts were had an amicable separation so it doesn't seem like it was totally traumatic right well and also one of the things that that psychiatrist said it sounded like was something along the lines of multiple possible multiple personality which they've proven isn't a real right right so there's those things where like 19 there's a lot of like 1980s old school shit terms i just think cutting your phone line is such a dramatic thing to do to like to just you it fucks things up it's you don't just get your phone turn back on yeah like that's kind you won't have a landline in the 80s for like two weeks until they come and fix it maybe she fucking likes that because then she can't get these calls anymore i mean i'm not like like i don't know i but that's yeah that's and people have to come to your aid and it is a big deal and so but it also isn't harming you so it's this like someone cut my phone lines seems like a big deal it's the same thing of like I guess nowadays it'd be someone stole my phone right or whatever yeah so it all these things are these things that are I'm I don't know which one it is and I can't say so I can see the point of why it's why she would do these things to herself for attention it makes sense to me yeah I just it doesn't the attention part doesn't make sense although I'm not denying that's a thing people get yeah where it's almost like then the ambulance came and it was so exciting or whatever but yeah it just seems like well to me it's so much more likely a woman especially a woman if she looked like something like Vana White in the 80s or 90s had a stalk her and a person who was trying to make her go crazy and torture her but how how did they find no trace of him for six and a half years well to me it sounds like I mean clearly out that the cops discounted her really early and so didn't bother looking for shit also could have been that could have been that the the stalker was a cop and knew all the inside shit well we got some shit then to talk about oh shit chow all right because also that thing where you when you said the thing about the dogs not getting a scent but they have to know what they're smelling for to do it in the first place so yeah if it's only her smell they need a sock from the person they suspect like you I don't they don't just find a scent and run to a person no that makes that that's that That's very true.

[701] I only know that from our friend and someone knows something.

[702] I know all about those.

[703] You should be a royal Canadian mounted police.

[704] Oh, I will.

[705] Okay.

[706] So let's talk about a couple of suspects.

[707] Mm -hmm.

[708] All right.

[709] Constable Pat McBride was the first investigator to look into Cindy's claims way back in 1982.

[710] He ended up getting involved with her romantically pretty quickly and moved in with her for a brief period.

[711] their relationship ended when he asked her to marry him and she said no okay so he was a fucking cop and spurned but he was the only only police who believed and supported her that she had a stalker but it's like of course you're like no yeah i totally believe it you know yes that's the perfect hiding right so maybe to his friends he was like she's fucking crazy she's a nut yeah um and and he so he was looked into his suspect and cleared four years after cindy's death pat pleaded guilty to two incidents of sexually assaulting women uh -oh and he had been under psychiatric care since 1984 because of a personality disorder okay which is like i mean who isn't well you would hope not all police right people and people that are supposed to uphold the law right jesus age so he was looked into and cleared but that's some that's some shit to consider that's a real swamp yeah also okay here's Okay.

[712] Here's the fun part.

[713] This isn't fun.

[714] Here's the part.

[715] When Cindy was under hypnosis at one point to try to remember who had attacked her in more details, she had a memory of being on a trip with her ex -husband, Dr. Makepeace, shortly before their divorce.

[716] They were with a doctor named James Tyhurst.

[717] And she said she witnessed them doing something sinister, including cutting up bodies, like had killed people and were cutting up bodies.

[718] She remembered that during hypnosis.

[719] So it turns out this fucking dude, Dr. James Tyhurst, look him up, T -Y -H -R -S -D, he had been sexually abusing some of his female patients, and he was arrested just four months after Cindy's death.

[720] And in 1991, he was convicted on five counts of sexual and indecent assault and ended up paying one of his victims half a million dollars in damages.

[721] He was one of those psychiatrists that would do that thing where he would make them sign a fucking master and slave thing to be like, you have dad.

[722] issues here to here's how to get past them like you need to let me take over your life and then some occasions he would like have them take their shirt off and whip them holy fuck he was like a fucking psychopath and he was a psychiatrist and and basically leading these women to believe he was healing that part of their process wow yeah dark so here we go conspiracy theory time because I just finished fucking wormwood on Netflix highly recommend everyone watching all the way through.

[723] It's so good.

[724] It's so good.

[725] Okay, so I totally believe this part.

[726] Dr. Tyhurst worked with the CIA in the 1950s.

[727] Uh -oh.

[728] Uh -huh.

[729] In experiments involving brainwashing, including he worked on a project called Project Artichoke, which turned into MK Ultra.

[730] Oh, Jesus.

[731] M .K. Alter started as Project Artichoke.

[732] So for everyone who doesn't know, the project studied hypnosis forced morphine addiction.

[733] She died from a fucking morphine over those.

[734] That's right.

[735] She did.

[736] Did I say morphine?

[737] Yes, you did.

[738] And they also studied the subsequent forced withdrawal of morphine and the use of chemicals, including LSD, to produce amnesia and other vulnerable states and subjects.

[739] Fucking A. Go watch Formwood if you think that that's bullshit.

[740] Right fucking now.

[741] Georgia will fight you.

[742] I will fight you.

[743] I just want to be in the meeting where people are like, look, we're doing some pretty great sinister shit.

[744] We're dosing everyone with acid.

[745] We're making people pretend to commit suicide.

[746] We cannot call ourselves Project Artochoke anymore.

[747] It doesn't suit us.

[748] It doesn't suit the project.

[749] And then one guy goes, what about the layers?

[750] You peel one artichoke like leaf off.

[751] And you're like, Stanley, you've had your time at the table.

[752] Now we're talking about the future.

[753] M .K. Ulter or Abust.

[754] And they're like, that sounds creepy.

[755] All I want is for future fucking true crime podcast to have a cool name.

[756] and not laugh at Project Artichoke.

[757] That's right.

[758] M .K. Ultra, it is.

[759] But now...

[760] I want a Project Artichoke.

[761] That's our new fucking business venture.

[762] Project also happens to be Elvis's favorite food, Artichokes.

[763] It's a fucking full circle.

[764] So did she witness her husband, and they broke up pretty quickly after, and fuck Dr. Tyburn fucking doing some sinister shit.

[765] And Dr. Tyburn is like, well, I'm going to fucking mind control the shit.

[766] of her for six and a half years so she doesn't no one believes what she's saying and we make her seem like a totally crazy woman that would do this thing voluntarily to get attention therefore she has no credibility with her family with her friends do we call it fucking constable pat mcbride and give him ten thousand dollars to be in on it this goes all the way to the middle the artichoke oh no dip this shit in garlic butter and put it to fucking bed god that's So either way, if she was doing it herself, which I believe 60%, she didn't know she was doing it.

[767] It's horrible and sad.

[768] So you think it was a puppet master situation where she, it wasn't, she wasn't doing it because of a psychotic break or some kind of thing.

[769] It was because of that.

[770] No, I think she had some severe mental illness that dissociative identity.

[771] know what by I don't know what and listen everyone knows I'm not fucking saying that people who are who have mental illness are fucking crazy because I have hi I have mom welcome welcome to my life but it does seem like there's a lot of a lot of everything that happened can be reasoned that she was doing these things to herself and didn't know about it and if that's true how sad is it that she had to live through that of her own mental.

[772] It's horrifying.

[773] If it's fucking not true and there was someone doing these things to her and no one believed him thought she was crazy, how fucking sad is that?

[774] Every direction.

[775] It's an insane case and I don't think we'll ever know because, you know, there's just not there's not enough.

[776] Especially if you start to link it to the CIA or M .KLter something that you can, these days it feels more and more like, oh yeah, that's possible.

[777] Oh yeah, some terrible stuff.

[778] Well, they did this shit.

[779] man. They really did.

[780] They really did it.

[781] Have I mentioned Wormwood?

[782] Do I have to say it again?

[783] How many times?

[784] But it's funny because I've heard this story about her and you really, not you personally, the story gets told really with this thing of like here's this horrible thing but also isn't even crazier if she was doing it to herself.

[785] So you almost get served this worst case scenario.

[786] You know what I mean?

[787] Like it's a more interesting story if she was doing it to herself.

[788] it's a more it's twist it's i think what's so interesting about it is that nobody knows and it feels awful either way either place you land on it it feels awful yeah because she still you know she still was tormented and and no matter what right i'm just saying you don't cut your own phone line okay i'm just saying no one cuts a landline first of all how do you even fucking do it i love that the thing that you have fucking a problem with it's the only thing that i have in this life it's but it's so like for people who have never had landlines or didn't, didn't rely on them.

[789] You don't know how serious you are about this.

[790] It's kind of like how I don't know if it's still this way, but like, I mean, I don't know if it's like a known thing or whatever, but it's like you just couldn't get anybody to get anything taken care of in a short amount of time.

[791] Yeah.

[792] So that whole thing of like the window is between Tuesday and Friday and they'll come whenever they feel like it.

[793] I don't know.

[794] For something like a phone, I just don't see it happening.

[795] Also, the other day I was sitting at home.

[796] and all of a sudden my power went out.

[797] And of course the first thing I think is I didn't pay my bill.

[798] Everyone thinks that.

[799] But then it came back on and then it went off again.

[800] And it was like three o 'clock in the afternoon.

[801] I was just laying there watching TV.

[802] I was like scared, like white, hot scared because I'm like someone's outside turning my power off.

[803] Oh my God.

[804] Or the bomb drop finally.

[805] I took it more of a one -on -one.

[806] I was going to have to get into a knife fight with somebody.

[807] But this just shows what the things were scared about.

[808] Yes.

[809] And they're always with us.

[810] And they're always there.

[811] And Xanax doesn't help.

[812] Well, it'll still happen and you just don't register anything.

[813] Well, there's so many nuances to this case, too.

[814] And I urge people to go to fucking Reddit and the unexplained message boards and just look up everyone's theories because it's so interesting.

[815] Yeah, everyone has these theories.

[816] And then they, and every comment is fucking, yeah, but, you know, and it's, and they're all right.

[817] It's just.

[818] Yeah, it seems like it could truly be, it could go anywhere.

[819] direction.

[820] Yeah.

[821] Like people answered the phone when they were at her house with her standing there and no one was on the line.

[822] Yeah.

[823] But no one ever answered the phone and there was someone talking on the line.

[824] You know what I mean?

[825] It's like that kind of thing.

[826] Also, I really fucking hated that phone call.

[827] Oh.

[828] I thought you would.

[829] That's why I played it.

[830] Somebody standing there trying to be threatening.

[831] It's like it's not the voice or it's the idea that a person is on the other line thinking to do that to someone.

[832] He's trying to scare the shit out of you.

[833] Yeah.

[834] It's just so fucking weird.

[835] Soon phones won't exist.

[836] That's the dream.

[837] Talking to anyone won't exist.

[838] Just let's it.

[839] It'll all be podcasts.

[840] Text me like two emojis.

[841] Get it.

[842] Get the idea across.

[843] If you want to tell me anything, make a podcast.

[844] Podcast about it.

[845] Send me the podcast.

[846] If it doesn't get, if it gets under top 10 and iTunes, I'll listen to what you have to say.

[847] Okay.

[848] Yeah, that's good.

[849] What time?

[850] What time?

[851] Make a podcast about it.

[852] tell me in a podcast so that's the story of cindy james and her death well that's fascinating i definitely have heard of it before but i didn't know her by name but it's funny because the way you said that and unsolved mystery style right it was on unsolved mysteries my murder today is also one that i was like hey whatever happened to that story love it did one of those yeah um and also i did and this i understand i'm i've been leaning on a lot lately but who fucking cares um it's our fucking podcast.

[853] My, the way I'm trying to find stories is to go on iTunes and then just look under true crime and see what they have like what because the ID channel at this point now they have every water feature style murder.

[854] It's like swamp murders and pool murders and fucking a shallow puddle.

[855] And somehow they're able to turn it into a half an hour show when it's really like the husband killed her.

[856] Right.

[857] But it's but because it in essence it's so fascinating that you don't you don't need much so i can't keep up with a lot of those ones yeah um but there's a really good one water feature we take a minute for the water feature you know what it comes up in the story that's why it was on the on the top of my head but um james patterson has a new like a reenactment crime series that i found like i think i stumbled upon i highly recommend it what is it he's at the top he does this goofy introduction you know james patterson is the novel and he like he has his own commercials will be like my new book will drive you crazy he looks like someone's grandpa so i started watching this because i'm like i bet this is going to be real cheesy it is so wonderfully produced and acted and really well written and they're true they're true crimes they're like it's not fictionalized is it called waterfall murders it's what water feature it's called who didn't turn off the hose drinking my dad murdered everybody in the house because you left the hose on overnight drinking poison out of a hose Hot water out of a green garden hose.

[858] Wait, what's the show called?

[859] James Patterson, Colin, Stephen's going to tell us in a minute.

[860] Out of the corner, my I see him pick up is gone.

[861] Oh, I love that you did.

[862] I love that you tried to avoid it because I was like, wait, Karen, tell us.

[863] I didn't help you.

[864] I just put it into my TiVo, though, so I thought if I started to say James Patterson, the rest would come out.

[865] It doesn't do that in real life.

[866] No. We don't have TiVos in our brains yet.

[867] It doesn't.

[868] I'll read it It's called Murder is Forever Yeah and that's really true I mean how many times have we told you guys But now that James Patterson's saying it He's right So he's good But there was another one I found And this is what got me to this story So also we know People magazine Right there And always has been with the true crime Forefront at the forefront Has been all over John Bonaise's death Since it happened That's what they did it that's what they do and now they're devoted and they have a dedicated team so this is uh the mixed day family market you're doing it i'm doing it i love it oh mixed days it makes me so crazy because when i saw this was one of the choices when i was looking at all the choices for the people magazine investigates it was that thing where i went oh i remember that i remember that happening i remember it being breaking news here in l .a i remember them talking about oh if this family of four went missing and then the follow -up reports in like the following same month or so they all led and told this weird story where i started to go oh they probably brought it on themselves oh they probably oh they're escaping they did this they did this they did it to themselves or they're running away because they're the criminals right really that narrative got into like the media pretty strongly yeah and then it made me go oh well then they probably just ran away and there were tax evaders or some weird thing and then i just never heard anything else about it so when i saw it come up as that choice i was like i bet you that ended way different than i remember and i need to know what the whole story oh this one hurts it's bad and it's southern california of course so it's fallbrook california which is a hundred miles north of san diego so it's that weird space between oh a hundred miles north yeah so you know like as you go down uh toward san diego and there's like Tomecula, whatever.

[869] It's right, I think it's right south of Tomecula, from what I remember.

[870] I looked at the map a couple times.

[871] Um, but it's basically kind of just, I know, I can read maps.

[872] Google maps.

[873] Okay, so Joey and Summer Mistay are happily married couple.

[874] He, uh, he designs custom made water features.

[875] Oh my God.

[876] That's why that was in my head.

[877] Full fucking circle.

[878] Full circle.

[879] Um, so basically it's like these really, really, high -end.

[880] It's kind of an amazing business.

[881] And you know people like that that are like they're artists, but then they've applied their art to actually make something functional that people need.

[882] So it's like water fountains and water features that were all like waterfalls in the that go under the pool because you're rich as fuck and you just need more shit in your house.

[883] Very high -end business.

[884] It reminds me something that would be like now an HGTV show.

[885] Totally.

[886] The mixed day family water features.

[887] They bring in, they're the specialist that the like those weird Las Vegas rent brothers bring in.

[888] The property brothers?

[889] The rent brothers.

[890] The rental brother.

[891] They're a little bit more low down than the property brothers.

[892] Property brothers are about buying.

[893] The property brothers were like, we're not going to fucking Las Vegas, dude.

[894] That's right.

[895] The rent brothers are like, yeah, if you have a part -time job and you love beer, we're your guys.

[896] Yeah, Las Vegas is where to go.

[897] So, okay.

[898] Okay.

[899] So that's what Joey does for a living.

[900] Really fancy, great business that he started himself and that just is doing better and better.

[901] And so they just bought this really nice house in Fallbrook.

[902] And Summer is a full -time real estate agent.

[903] So they're doing very well.

[904] And they have two young sons, a five -year -old and a three -year -old.

[905] So they, on On February, I believe it's around like February 8th or 10th, Joey is what everyone calls him.

[906] Joey McStay's father Patrick notices that he's not answering his calls.

[907] Every time he calls Joey, it goes straight to the mailbox is full.

[908] He cannot get a hold of him.

[909] And he finally calls his other son, Michael, and says, will you go check on Joey in the house because he's not answering like what's going on?

[910] And then they start getting calls, complaints of people that are looking for their water features or their orders or say, want a question or whatever, and no one's answering.

[911] And Joey was a really astute businessman.

[912] So they knew once they started hearing complaints through emails that calls weren't being returned, that's when they really started getting worried that something was going on because it's just not like him.

[913] And actually, the webmaster for Joey's company was the one that called and said, I got a little.

[914] these emails it's like he's I can't get a hold of him so then the whole family kind of gets together and Michael Joey's brother and then Joey's business partner who is the guy that took the designs and actually made the water features his name is um chase merit he's like the construction dude yeah he's like he you you design it on the paper and I take all the tubes twist it around make a water feature we ship it out boom we all make $10 ,000 um they go over to the mixed day's new house and they're looking around they see that the family that joey's truck is in the in the driveway but that the family car is gone they the family car is an zuzu trooper and it's not there um they look they look over the back fence the dogs are out in the backyard they haven't been fed they're um they're like going crazy that people are actually there and then michael finds an open window and he goes into the mixed day's house and they look around and there's no blood anywhere, there's nothing amiss.

[915] There doesn't look like there's been a struggle, but it looks like people were just there five minutes ago.

[916] So there's two little bowls of popcorn on the couch that are just sitting on the couch.

[917] There's glasses on the counter, you know, reading glasses sitting on the counter.

[918] There's open cans of paint from a room that they were, you know, like repainting.

[919] They were open.

[920] No one leaves a can of paint open.

[921] Not even if they were going to run to the corner.

[922] It's like, what if the dogs get in, da, da, da.

[923] Dude, I Or the kids.

[924] I'm so anal retentive about that shit.

[925] There's no fucking way you're just leaving those.

[926] And I don't have dogs or kids.

[927] Right.

[928] And they said, later on, they say that they're the kind of people that they brought their dogs everywhere.

[929] So they wouldn't, like the idea that the dogs were out in the yard not fed was really upsetting to them.

[930] They knew something was terribly wrong.

[931] On February 15, the family reports the entire family missing to the San Diego Sheriff's Department.

[932] um they've because they try to contact him in every way they look they look everywhere and they're like no this is like we need the police to start investigating this so the police narrow it down to the last anybody heard from them and the last um like traceable um like phone activity was on February 4th of 2010 and February 15th is when they got a hold of cops yes wow so they uh yeah they it basically was like oh they're so busy they're just not getting back to us and then it got to the point where it's like somebody's got to look into this so i think and also february 15th was like may have been the official day right that it started so they could have been talking to the cops the second after they went into the house and it looked like everyone had just walked out of the room sure which is such a creepy feeling but anyway um so they see that uh they that on uh february 4th at 8 28 p .m um a cell phone tower pinged joseph's phone and He had made a call to an employee in Rancho Cucamonga to talk about work.

[933] And then they find out that a neighbor, their neighbor had a surveillance camera that caught the edge of the mixed days driveway.

[934] And so they have video footage of the mixed days Azuzu Trooper backing out of the driveway at 747 p .m. on the night of February 4th.

[935] Oh, my God, I forgot about that part.

[936] Yeah, but you can't see.

[937] So all you can see are the wheels going down.

[938] driveway you don't even see where the windows are on the car it doesn't go up high enough so you can't see who's in the car yeah but you just see that the trooper is leaving the house um and then uh on february 8th they find the family's 1996 a zoosoo trooper uh it had been towed from a parking lot near san ysidro and the security guards later tell investigators it may have been parked there uh sometime between 530 and 530 p .m and 7 p .m. And so then they start looking, it's basically a parking lot that's right next to the border.

[939] So then they start watching video footage because they're like, well, what if the family just went into Mexico and something happened?

[940] Because that's basically what the car being driven there tells them that.

[941] Yeah.

[942] So then they find this.

[943] What year is this again?

[944] I'm sorry.

[945] This was 2010.

[946] Okay.

[947] So, so, and I know that for a fact.

[948] I should have questioned you.

[949] I guarantee it.

[950] I wrote the year down on every single one of these lines.

[951] No, so they start looking at video footage and they think they have found around 8 o 'clock on that night.

[952] They think they found, it's like surveillance footage of people walking into Mexico from the California side, into Mexico, and it's a family of four, and it's a guy and a girl and then two little children.

[953] I have watched, back then watched that video.

[954] over and over and paused it and started it and paused it it's just shadows It's shadows You can't tell who it is And it's really far away So you don't see their faces But it looks like A husband and a wife And two little boys And it actually is probably It could be I mean like they were saying Something where it's like Both of the little boys Had these hats on Like beanies Which is what those little boys Did wear all the time What did they call them and not Two tukes.

[955] Tewks in Canada?

[956] Yeah.

[957] We're like not in California.

[958] Beanie's here, but yeah or you know some just kind of a little hat.

[959] Yeah.

[960] But the thing is lots of little kids where yeah.

[961] So it's, it's that thing where it's like.

[962] But what of the chances of that same night at that same time?

[963] And this happened.

[964] They look, you know, it's far away, but it's like she's age appropriate.

[965] It's all they, they fit the body types, all of it.

[966] They do.

[967] So then the police find on Summer's computer in looking into like from the beginning of January searches on do you need a passports to take children across the border into Mexico and different questions like that about taking kids there so then they were like okay maybe this they've been planning some kind of escape and that's where this part of the narrative comes in yeah and then the father says in the people magazine investigates the father talks about how um Joey because he was doing so well in business and stuff, he ended up buying land in Belize because he had this retirement plan.

[968] He loves surfing and he loved the water.

[969] And so he had this land.

[970] He was going to build like a house on in Belize for when they were done and they just wanted to go down and, you know, live the easy life.

[971] Well, yeah, and he looked like the Margaritaville, dude.

[972] Yes.

[973] He's very Sammy Hagar guy.

[974] He's like a young Sammy Hagar.

[975] She's this, like, beautiful, like, looks like she'd hang out the beach all the time.

[976] Totally.

[977] she has like share hair yeah they're both like surfy chill out looking the kids are like sweet young things so those little boys look like the cutest kids yeah yeah it's just like a very beautiful it's a very southern california family so southern california just kind of like we've and successful yeah doing well because they've worked hard yeah yeah so then this idea that then seeding this concept in that they somehow were on the run or they're trying to get away from something or whatever.

[978] Then they start theorizing, okay, was the cartel involved in this water feature company where if they were exporting, that somehow they got, they ran into like the wrong element exporting these water features into Mexico or internationally or something where they're just trying to theorize of like, why would you run with your whole family?

[979] Or why would you cross over into Tijuana and just disappear?

[980] Like, what could be happening?

[981] Yeah.

[982] It's like, I guess, it it makes sense that that's one of the things you think about sure well and I also think that sometimes those people come up with those theories because they're trying to think how can this family still be alive right because the reality underlying creepiness is you don't you want to go there's got to be some other thing that's happening yeah yeah um on May 13th of 2010 so this is like uh you know February March April three months later um there they send investigation down to El Rosario, Mexico, because, so a waiter sees, sees little kid, sees the birth mark and reports it that he think this is, this is the kid, because now their pictures are everywhere.

[983] And it's, and it's missing family.

[984] There's no homicide element in the, obviously, in the beginning of this case.

[985] It's like, have you seen this family?

[986] So it's, and also, it seems like when those pictures of, like, have you seen this family, it immediately puts them in that they could be criminals.

[987] Yeah.

[988] Or there's something questionable about, like, Like, you know, they're all...

[989] Well, how does a whole family disappear unless they're doing it on their own?

[990] Unless they're...

[991] It's not like a husband and wife or one or the other.

[992] It's like...

[993] Changing their identity or whatever.

[994] It's like, yeah, they obviously...

[995] You don't usually run away with a three -year -old and a five -year -old.

[996] Right.

[997] So a bunch of...

[998] They sent seven investigators down to look into this.

[999] But nothing came of that.

[1000] And then the brother, Michael, starts, find the McFaite family website.

[1001] And it gets a bunch of attention, and they actually did, they featured the story on America's Most Wanted, just saying this family has disappeared and nobody knows what's happening.

[1002] The problem is that the family finds that in their personal bank accounts, they have $100 ,000.

[1003] So they're like, why would you escape and leave behind a bunch of money?

[1004] And it's not touched this whole time.

[1005] It's just sitting in their bank account.

[1006] I remember that amount being like, like, if they left $10 ,000.

[1007] dollars and didn't touch it, it'd be like, they're, you know, okay, like you're trying to make it seem like you didn't run away, but you left that.

[1008] Right.

[1009] 100 ,000 fucking dollars.

[1010] Why wouldn't you bring that if you're on the run and you're never coming back?

[1011] It doesn't make sense.

[1012] It's so much money.

[1013] Then, they also find that Summer had, in her email, the family starts going through the email, their personal email, and finds that her abusive ex, was a guy named Vic Johansson she hadn't spoken to him in five years and actually she was like the bad that was the bad relationship she was coming out of when she met Joey and they were like and he like turned her life around and it was suddenly like I believe in love again type of thing so they find an email from that guy they hadn't spoken in five years and the email was they didn't like like the tone of it or the sound of it so suddenly they're like where's this guy yeah so they start looking into Vic Johansson and it turned out in the time that they had broken up he'd been arrested twice once was for threatening to kill his neighbors and claiming that he was a Marine who was trained in like killing people and so like I'm coming for you he was arrested for that then the other time and more recently he was arrested because he was refused to leave a bar that Joey's store was it was next to Joe's Joey's store.

[1014] What?

[1015] And so they were like, and then they find out that that Vic Johansson lives in an apartment two miles away from Joey and Summer's old apartment.

[1016] Oh, shit.

[1017] So they're like, oh, this guy's in the mix and nobody knew it for sure, understood it.

[1018] Um, uh, but then Vic knows that he's going to be suspect.

[1019] And so he calls the police preemptively and says, I understand they're missing.

[1020] I just want to let you know.

[1021] This is, where I was.

[1022] Here's all the people that can prove it, and it all proves out.

[1023] So he has an alibi that seems to be solid.

[1024] By August of 2010, the beginning of August of 2010, the family just starts taking all the mixed -day stuff out of their house.

[1025] And then they see that, so Joey's company was called Earth -inspired products.

[1026] That was the custom -made water features.

[1027] They see that the company is for sale for a million dollars and the CEO listed is Dan Kavanaugh, the webmaster.

[1028] Shut the fuck up.

[1029] Who had set up the email when the company first started.

[1030] I'm not sorry, the website.

[1031] I'm so old.

[1032] So basically, you know, in this in People magazine Investigates, they say that Dan Kavanaugh believed that he was one of the main reasons that this water feature company got so successful because he made sure that any time you searched custom water features or any he was like one of those early google manipulators so that um earth uh inspired products ink would come up first when you were searching for that and because of that they got all this business and he felt like he never got his fair share and they found old iams of joey and dan like fighting and dan saying you owe me money and so joey ended up buying him a BMW.

[1033] Like, as a, thank you for all your service and I'm doing well and, you know, you helped me. So.

[1034] And even, don't get any ideas.

[1035] Stephen, the BMWs are too fast for you.

[1036] Get you.

[1037] Go card.

[1038] Yes.

[1039] And also, they tracked that he had kept coming to Joe, this webmaster kept coming to Joey and being like, lend me 50 bucks, lend me 100 bucks, let me 200 bucks.

[1040] So that, you know, they were like really starting to look at that guy and then he was like I was on a surfing trip what when that family just clearly you can look it up story well they you know it was the truth but I think it's insane that he tried to fucking sell that company with himself as the CEO like sure dude what an idiot what are you doing red flag and also the case is still open like why would you put yourself out there so um anyway that basically all of those leads go cold the whole case goes cold for three years then on april 9th 2013 oh my god um basically because of that surveillance video yeah which one the at i'm sorry at the border border uh with the family grainy from the back uh saying it's them yeah the san diego sheriff's department investigators announced that the mixed day family left for mexico voluntarily they're like done so they come out and they're just basically like look they're gone and we don't know what happened say goodbye they're they just went to mexico oh how frustrating for the family it's terrible and also so this is april of 2013 in november of 2013 April to November got it right I'm there a solid six months okay or so um I don't know math I mean we could just pause it and add it up but why would we so it's not this this isn't a math's podcast math this isn't an accounting podcast for fuck's sake this is not a calendar podcast clearly on november 11th 2013 okay there's a guy writing in the desert the mojave desert he's writing a motorcross area that's it's your new boyfriend it's jimmy buttons he's just he wants to get back on the bike and just kind of experience the whole time sure um he's out there and he hits his tire hits something weird he goes back no it's a human skull no no He calls 911 I'm pretty sure it's the real call that was on People Magazine Shut up, what does he say?

[1041] What does he say?

[1042] He just goes, yeah, I'm running my motorcycle out here Back behind the dump And I think I just found a human skull Holy shit Like he just sounds like the most bummed out Motorcross guy of all time I just wanted to fucking top some wheelies Yeah, I'm just trying to have fun like a kid Because you know how hard life can be sometimes And I found a school I saved some money and I bought this thing for myself because it brings me joy and it's the only thing I have that brings me joy left and of course death is around every corner sure and we all know that so can I get some help out here so I found a skull oh the poor Jimmy but now here's the thing Jimmy Buttons X O XO XO the San Bernardino Sheriff's Office takes over because it's up it's the where that skull is found is up in the desert and it's not in it like it's not San Diego Sheriff's office anymore different place and so San Bernardino's two separate counties different places so San Bernardino's like yeah we got this everybody else came back in yeah you remember San Diego how you were like no they walked away they walked into San Diego San Diego's like oh yeah they're like so we're on this and they send forensic investigators to the to the site including an anthropologist nice and they work all night and into the morning and then the next day November 15th San Bernardino County Sheriff, John McMahon, identifies the bodies found as Joseph, Summer, Joseph, and Gianni Mix Day.

[1043] The whole fucking family's been murdered.

[1044] How did they know it was them when they were digging?

[1045] Because they, lots of bones were broken, but they had the dental records, and the dental records identified everybody.

[1046] But they wouldn't know to check the dental records until they knew what to check them against.

[1047] Yeah, because there's two adult bodies and two child bodies.

[1048] Oh, God.

[1049] And two separate graves.

[1050] So tell me what happened.

[1051] So awful.

[1052] Okay, so the family's house has been sold.

[1053] There's a new family living in the house.

[1054] So the San Bernardino County sheriffs want to go back in, but then they're like, anything that could have been in here that could have possibly been a clue is gone.

[1055] But the Azuzu trooper is still in, I guess, somehow in police custody.

[1056] So they go back and they fucking pull every ounce of forensic evidence that they can out of it.

[1057] And what they find is there is trace.

[1058] evidence of Joey's business partner Chase Merritt in the fucking Azuzu trooper.

[1059] So they start to look into Chase Merritt's, uh, Chase, Chase Merritt's, Chase Merritt's?

[1060] And his D Merritt.

[1061] Um, turns out he's an ex -con with a mile long rap sheet.

[1062] Oh, Chase.

[1063] You've been chased down.

[1064] That's right.

[1065] So many words that are other words.

[1066] Your chase has come to an, I don't know.

[1067] There's something there.

[1068] Uh, so he had served time for burglary grand theft receiving stolen property and he also had a gambling problem.

[1069] So as Joey's company was getting more and more successful, he was borrowing larger and larger sums of money from Joey.

[1070] And by 2010, Chase Merritt owed Joey over $30 ,000.

[1071] Holy shit.

[1072] Yes.

[1073] And when Summer found out that amount that he owed, she was like, what the fuck are you doing?

[1074] Like that you, that's too much money to lend somebody and that's crazy yeah and i think he i think joey was in that position where he had all the success and all this like money and everything was going great so all the people that that came and were like yeah well you owe me because da -da -da -da he'd be like sure here how much do you need and was really generous and just wanted everyone to be like happy like he was and it was like he's grateful for everything he has and so he's making sure he's paying it for paying it to people who helped him right exactly and chase merits they're going well i'm your i'm your business partner and i'm your guy and i just have this little please hold me over for a little while i just need 10 000 yeah so basically as they continue to look in they know summer was really upset about that amount she wanted to talk about it like that it was like a real issue um then they look at chase merritt's phone records and on the night the mixed day family went missing um his cell phone was shown being used right near where the bodies were found and they found out that Merritt's sister lived close to that location as well they had grown up it was i think near victorville it was like mojave desert somewhere basically that's where he knew the area very well so why didn't they know that before i know they didn't look into it yeah i guess uh because they were like oh they they they are in mexico everything that's fine so then I like to think forensic accountants found this out but I don't know who did I bet they did some super exciting wonderfully dressed chic hot exciting so cool forensic accountants yeah find that Chase Merritt had written a company check for the amount of $21 ,000 after the mixed days went missing which is just fucking stupid yeah so I would think that would be the last draw, but the chronology could be wrong.

[1075] So any number of those things could have been the last draw, finding out that his sister lived nearby, all those things.

[1076] But basically, they're like, oh, yeah, okay.

[1077] So on November 7th, 2014, San Bernardino County Sheriff's Investigators announced that they have arrested Charles Chase Merritt, and he's charged with four counts of murder in the mixed day slings.

[1078] Okay, so prosecutors allege Chase Merritt has a gambling problem.

[1079] He killed a family for financial gain and basically he wrote checks totally more than $21 ,000 on Joseph Nickstay's business account in the days after the family was killed.

[1080] Then he went on a gambling spree at nearby casinos.

[1081] Which one?

[1082] Morongo.

[1083] I bet it was Morongo.

[1084] Go go Morongo.

[1085] Don't do it.

[1086] Where of course he lost thousands of dollars.

[1087] Dude.

[1088] On what?

[1089] What are the gambling on?

[1090] You know, fucking like.

[1091] Buffalo.

[1092] Am I buffalo machine?

[1093] High stakes buffalo machine.

[1094] High Steaks buffalo and fucking Wheel of Fortune.

[1095] It's just like that thing of like anything else where you're like, so you, you couldn't stop playing fucking 21 so you killed four people.

[1096] Including two little babies.

[1097] Like the cutest.

[1098] So.

[1099] What a monster.

[1100] On January 30th, 2015, Chase Merritt requests to represent himself.

[1101] Always a good sign.

[1102] Great idea.

[1103] You're fucking sane as shit.

[1104] He said he only had six to eight months to live that he couldn't afford an attorney and he had to represent himself.

[1105] So this turns out is very sad for him.

[1106] I hate him so much.

[1107] So the trial is delayed because he keeps on firing these attorneys and he tries to represent himself.

[1108] I'm sure he couldn't do it.

[1109] February 2016, he had already gone through five attorneys.

[1110] Shit.

[1111] July 2017, his trial is tentatively set for September 25th, 2017.

[1112] A month later, a San Bernardino County Superior Court Judge sets a November 13th 2017 trial date November 13th, 2017 the trial is waived.

[1113] Wait, that's like a couple months ago.

[1114] Until February 23rd, the trial starts tomorrow.

[1115] The trial of Chase Merritt, who fucking killed the McStay family, starts tomorrow if they don't wave it again.

[1116] Holy shit.

[1117] Yeah.

[1118] Let's go to it.

[1119] Dude.

[1120] Dude.

[1121] The cool thing about the way People Magazine Investigates set up that thing was I was like, oh, it's totally that ex -boyfriend, clearly.

[1122] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1123] Then you go, it's totally the web master.

[1124] Well, I'm like that too.

[1125] It's anything I watch.

[1126] It's them.

[1127] It's that, like, it's the next person.

[1128] But that within that world, the police had so much work to do and so many people to like peel away.

[1129] Yeah.

[1130] The really awful thing, though, is this family, their, um, Joey McStay had electrical cord around his neck.

[1131] But the whole family was bludgeoned to death.

[1132] Oh, my God.

[1133] And they found the, um, it's, you know, the sledgehammer where the bodies were buried.

[1134] How did he do it?

[1135] Right.

[1136] And like they, he, he, whoever did this.

[1137] And if it was him or somebody else, sledgehammer to death a family.

[1138] Like, it's, it's a monster among us.

[1139] It's so horrifying.

[1140] Oh, my God.

[1141] Yeah.

[1142] It's just like, I think what always bothered me and I followed this.

[1143] case, obviously not until recently because I didn't know that was going on.

[1144] But I think once I found out that their bodies were found, I was like, I can't this anymore because you'd been hearing so much about it.

[1145] Yes.

[1146] Like I knew what happened.

[1147] Okay, I'm done.

[1148] But I've always pictured, you know, their house and the two bowls of popcorn, like little kid popcorn on the couch.

[1149] They had just sat their kids down so they could watch something on TV with some popcorn.

[1150] And the theory is so that the parents could have a conversation with Chase with the business partner to say hey you can't this can't happen anymore we're not doing this anymore and he fucking lost it and he or he was like oh we should all go to a let's all go out to dinner or let's all like something to get everybody together in the car because oh yeah there was so it happened it didn't happen in the house because there's no blood there's nothing yeah they don't and the defense attorneys in the beginning we're trying to say that the prosecution is trying to say that the that's the houses where the like the initial attack took place and because there's not a drop of blood there that can't it must be wrong or whatever when obviously there's because there was no broken glass there was no doors were broken there was no forced entry there was no sign of a struggle they left of their own accord with the business partner slash friend that they thought everything was fine with Yes.

[1151] So what do you, where, they don't know where the, where the murder took place.

[1152] But I think if he, I think it took place out in the desert.

[1153] I think he got them into the car and then drove them against their will.

[1154] Because, yeah.

[1155] Yeah, that makes sense that like, but then, yeah, but then you wonder like, if the dad had then the rope on his neck, because like he probably would have fought if this dude like brought out a gun and was like, you're coming with me. so he subdued him somehow.

[1156] I mean, because I think it's that thing.

[1157] And all the people that are suspect, it's all these people that are your good friend, your business partner, the person you talk to every single day.

[1158] So clearly it's someone couldn't be more on the inside that turned.

[1159] And the idea that this guy has like a rap sheet a mile long where clearly he doesn't have a huge problem with breaking him along doing what he needs to do to get his.

[1160] Right.

[1161] I don't know.

[1162] I mean, it's fascinating.

[1163] And also just at the beginning.

[1164] and that was, you know, years ago, he was like, oh, I only have six months to live.

[1165] Or it's like, sorry, what?

[1166] Like, he said he had, like, what, cancer or some shit?

[1167] I thought.

[1168] He, like, at first his lawyers were like, yeah, he's very unwell.

[1169] And then he fires the lawyers and is like, I'm sick.

[1170] I'm just going to represent myself.

[1171] Like, it's just that whole psychopath thing of, like, this is about me and how hard the struggles of my life.

[1172] Yeah.

[1173] And nobody else matters or counts.

[1174] So crazy.

[1175] So we'll have to keep our eyes peeled in.

[1176] for sure see what happens in that case fuck man i know that was good karen thank you well i'm just a messenger you're just a messenger i don't want to take credit for the worst fucking story you don't want to take credit for people magazine investigates but but i will because man that's a good show shit well oh that's creepy i also printed up a picture of the leaves that was what i was trying to print last week or the week we did that oh no It's just reminding you about 2010.

[1177] Never forget about 2010.

[1178] Well, shit.

[1179] Thank you for sharing that.

[1180] Of course.

[1181] Do you have a, to wrap up the show, do you have some kind of a hooray?

[1182] I do have one.

[1183] Okay.

[1184] You go first.

[1185] Mine's stupid.

[1186] I'll go first.

[1187] Okay.

[1188] And the other night I couldn't sleep.

[1189] I was laying in bed thinking about the hometown murders and how crazy they've become.

[1190] And I thought of another one that I want people to send in.

[1191] So this is just a random.

[1192] I want to hear this now.

[1193] Okay.

[1194] Okay.

[1195] This is my hooray.

[1196] Great.

[1197] I want people to send me. Not me. I want people to send.

[1198] us at my favorite murder at Gmail stories of how they found out after like grandpa died we went through the fucking basement yes and that's how we learned so there's this article in vice that i recently reread called my grandmother the poisoner by john reed that i say everyone needs to read but like one of those yeah we realized my grandma might be poisoning all of us but we just acted like it was normal and like don't eat grandma's food but it's a really great article what the fuck yeah so it's one of those what the fucks how did we not know we found out this after i want those those are our new hometowns that i want please right and if anything involves an attic an attic uh we were going through a thing and we found out yes dot dot dot and a trunk microfiche whatever it is bottom drawers yeah even if it's like and it doesn't have to be like murder i'm just talking about like weird shit like we didn't realize this about my mom and tell or whatever the fuck yes that's great i love that that's a great idea.

[1199] Okay.

[1200] I was going to say this, my hooray for this week is these fucking kids from that high school in Florida who are standing up and fucking taking the mic away from these inept fucking leaders of this country and the rotten, shitty, toxic adults that are so fucking greedy that they don't care about human life anymore and they are taking it back.

[1201] I am so proud the way they're handling themselves.

[1202] And I just want to say to all these kids that are watching other kids be this empowered and just know this is the world needs you so bad right now because these adults have gone insane and you are the voice of reason.

[1203] And anyone trying to tell you you can't talk or you're being over -emotional, you don't have to listen to any of those old fucks at all and you can do you're not over -emotional your opinion matters more than other people's because once you stand on the other side of a fucking ar -15 and almost die in your high school you get to say what you think about gun control and your opinion matters and you have to you don't be stopped by fucking closed doors of senators and governors don't be stopped by internet trolls don't fucking fall for any of that shit and do what you know is right because those old fucks are they're locked up in greed and they're locked up in fucking shitty like they don't even know what they're they've gone insane truly and we need you so badly right now so congratulations and I'm so sorry but also fuck yet like rise up children yes and I and even the people who the the teenagers who you haven't had a shooting at your school yet to me the thought you know I graduated the year before Columbine and now the thought of going to high school knowing every fucking day that that could happen is terrifying to me and I'm not in high school so everyone who's in high school and in college and in these in these situations like why are why is the world the words school shooting so normal yeah shouldn't be no it's all these kids who need to fucking do something and you're totally right and it's not just the fucking people it's the adults as someone who's 37 we stop giving a shit and we go fucking dead in the brain and we don't know what we're what to do yes so you we need you so badly it's your fucking future we support you i saw something today that was like schools are fucking threatening to to um suspend students yeah i got suspended in high school guess what it doesn't fucking matter not only does it not matter but guess what if you get shot by a fucking ar 15 because some fucking all right racist piece of shit runs through your school trying to shoot people it won't matter suspended or not this is we are at a really crucial time where these what these kids are doing you're standing up and going no fucking more because we almost died yeah they're not spoiled little activist children they're not like these pieces of shit that are trying to talk shit about them they are people who's a survived and b now have a clarity that you can only get when you fucking almost get killed where you step forward and go, I know what matters, I know it doesn't matter, and I'm about to tell you something.

[1204] And these old men that run this country that are so obsessed with being in a fucking yacht club that they don't give a shit about human life, that generation is dying off.

[1205] I mean, I can't imagine how fucking scared the NRA is that they're coming after them.

[1206] I am so, we are fucking ruining for you.

[1207] We're behind you.

[1208] And also, you're 17.

[1209] A lot of you are 17 or up in that area.

[1210] In one year, you can start fucking changing everything.

[1211] And you will...

[1212] And the meantime, your shit's going to be expunged.

[1213] So just fucking get out there and get arrest.

[1214] And keep going on social media.

[1215] Keep doing the things that you know how to do that they don't know how to do, which is communicate on social media.

[1216] There was that brilliant thing where people started to try to accuse one of those survivors of being a crisis actor.

[1217] And he fucking came back on Wolf Blitzer and was like if any of you saw me in our high school productions, a fiddler on the roof, you would know I am not a crisis actor.

[1218] It was like, how genius are these?

[1219] They're all trained by TV.

[1220] They're all trained by social media.

[1221] They know how to do this thing.

[1222] They don't need fucking old people telling them what to do anymore.

[1223] And they don't need pieces of shit like school people going, oh, you'll get suspended.

[1224] Hey, guess what?

[1225] We're tired.

[1226] They're saying we're tired of dying.

[1227] Yeah.

[1228] My sister has lived on the front lines of school shooting culture, since.

[1229] it started and she as a teacher when people are saying teachers should walk out teacher should be armed teachers right my sister goes how come we have to fucking do everything this is both like teachers aren't going to be armed this is a school that what we need is less guns not more right that the fantasy of arming everybody to the teeth did you see that thing online where they showed a picture of moments before ronald regan got shot and there's just all these arrows to all that um yeah CIA going, good guy with a gun, good guy with a gun, good guy with a gun.

[1230] And he still got fucking shot.

[1231] He was surrounded on every side.

[1232] So drop the fantasy that arming everybody is the answer and start looking at the fact that this country has too many fucking guns.

[1233] Why am I saying anything?

[1234] Let the children, listen to them.

[1235] We're not, and the thing too, and I've gotten in a loud fight with my mom in a fucking fancy pizza restaurant about this is we're not trying to take away fucking this guy Eric's fucking gun his his fucking 22 have it fine right basic fucking regulations especially on automatic fucking rifles yes automatic weapons and fucking you know army grade fucking uh assault assault weapons yeah it's just basic fucking regulations in the same way driver's license do in the same way you and i would have to fucking have if he wanted to get an abortion right or we wanted to get birth control yeah like we you know like what the fuck is the difference yeah and it's the difference is it's a big big money lots of money you've been fucking brainwashed yes and if you're not on the side of fucking of protecting children then you're on the wrong side and you need to fucking know that yes and that idea the threat of their coming for our guns is like an nRA based fantasy of this government take over like your boys in office yeah like the you can let go of, they were saying, if we just got rid of 100 ,000 guns, there would still be 300 ,000 in the mix.

[1236] Like, this is a, it's, it's a, it's a fucking crisis.

[1237] It's a real crisis.

[1238] I've been worrying about it and worrying about it.

[1239] And to see fucking teenagers actually doing something about it is, is, uh, it's, it's overwhelming to me to see it happening and someone doing something about it.

[1240] And I, and all, all we can do is say that we support it, 100%.

[1241] Please keep going and please know that you the fight and they know I none of this needs to be said to them right but we're talking also to you know not teenagers yeah support it as well exactly what we can do is is just like get behind it as we said as James Patterson said murder is forever you fucking lose your 14 year old in a school shooting the fucking end look around your house look around your family and say who am I willing to lose so that somebody else can have a gun.

[1242] because I bet you that answer is fucking nobody.

[1243] But it's totally fine for these other families to lose babies, to lose children in the hallway of their high school.

[1244] That is bullshit.

[1245] We need to start golden ruling some shit in this country.

[1246] We need to take back this like, I got mine too bad for your family.

[1247] Like, and guess what?

[1248] These kids are the ones that are going to do it.

[1249] And it's fucking electrifying.

[1250] I'm in awe.

[1251] I'm in fucking awe of these kids.

[1252] God bless them.

[1253] Stay sexy.

[1254] And don't.

[1255] Get murdered.

[1256] Goodbye.

[1257] Elvis, you want cookie?

[1258] Good boy.

[1259] Good boy.