Justin Timberlake

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dax Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Monica Lily Padman.

[3] Big fan.

[4] Big, big fan.

[5] Today was an exciting day for you.

[6] Another guest whom you had a poster of on your wall.

[7] Did you say that?

[8] Or just clippings?

[9] I mean, in sync, Justin was of my generation.

[10] Like, I was the target audience.

[11] I was the target audience.

[12] And look, they got me. Yeah, they did.

[13] They got most of the people.

[14] I think they sold 70 million albums I read.

[15] I was an in sync Oprah Backstreet Boys fan.

[16] Okay, good.

[17] That's the one Justin.

[18] Okay, great.

[19] So it's, it worked out.

[20] Not NKT -O -B.

[21] No, N -K -O -T -B on the block.

[22] New kids on the block.

[23] Oh, God.

[24] They were before my time.

[25] Oh, what one had you said?

[26] Backstreet Boys.

[27] Oh, Backstreet Boys.

[28] Okay, I'm not sure where I'm at anymore.

[29] It's 2021.

[30] Justin Timberlake, I don't even need to describe him.

[31] But I'm going to anyways, because he has a 10 -time Grammy Award -winning singer.

[32] Ten time.

[33] Oh, very acclaimed.

[34] Change your slacks.

[35] A three -time Emmy award -winning actor and record producer.

[36] He's been a ton of great movies, trolls, friends with benefits, the social network.

[37] He has a new movie out on Apple TV Plus called Palmer, which is a story about Timberlake who's been in prison for 12 years.

[38] He's a former high school football star.

[39] He returns home to put his life back together and forms an unlikely bond with an outcast boy from a troubled home.

[40] He's delightful in it, and he was delightful to talk to.

[41] And we got to discuss punked.

[42] I know.

[43] I'm so glad it's, that was juicy.

[44] Juicy, juicy.

[45] Please enjoy juicy Justin Timberlake.

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[49] Guys, how good, how are you doing?

[50] I'm so excited to have this conversation.

[51] Me too.

[52] The movie you're promoting, and then our past, there's so much I think that's relevant.

[53] I think there's such a wonderful story to weave that ends up with this movie.

[54] I can't wait to hear about this parallel.

[55] Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[56] I'm going to make it.

[57] My favorite topic in general is masculinity.

[58] You know, I grew up in a suburb of Detroit, but it turned into hillbilly country right at my town.

[59] So it was real blue collar, a lot of violence, a lot of definitions of masculinity, a lot of shaming dudes for being girly, all these things.

[60] And did you have a similar vibe in Memphis?

[61] I feel like you would.

[62] No, totally.

[63] I mean, Memphis and Detroit, I find them to be very similar city.

[64] in any type of sports or entertainment industry, their secondary or third market.

[65] Yeah.

[66] Like when I was a kid, you know, I was like to get like the big concert, she had to go to Nashville.

[67] Yeah, I grew up in a similar rural setting outside of Memphis.

[68] And Memphis, like Detroit, a very historically segregated city.

[69] But there's also so much music, history about both towns too that come out of that.

[70] Yeah.

[71] Even food.

[72] They've got their own food too.

[73] Right.

[74] Right.

[75] So yeah, it's kind of funny.

[76] Like it's insular in a lot of ways, right?

[77] Like my buddies and I always had a joke that's like, you know how to make it in Memphis, right?

[78] It's like, get out.

[79] I'll stop rambling and be a little more apropos to your point, which is, you know, you either played football or basketball or.

[80] You got your ask you.

[81] Yeah.

[82] Or people consider you a sissy.

[83] For me, like, I didn't have a dad around, so I didn't have a guy telling me, like, you're doing it, young man, you're on your way to be a proud man. So anything my peers deemed masculine or brave, I ran towards it because I just wanted this male approval so much.

[84] I think about it a ton.

[85] It's like driven my life so much.

[86] Yeah, same here, man. I grew up at the same way.

[87] My parents divorced when I was young.

[88] My mother remarried when I was five, my stepdad, who I consider my other dad, is an amazing, amazing man and taught me so much about how to be a gentleman.

[89] And, you know, he is more of a soft -spoken type.

[90] But I also very much looked up to my grandfather.

[91] In that time, I was still getting to know who my stepdad was and then, like, transitioning into, like, really admiring him and starting to consider him more than just a stepdad, you know?

[92] And that says a lot about him, you know, any person who marries into a family like that and is able to have that effect on a young person is like, oh yeah, it's the worst role.

[93] I had four stepdad.

[94] I hated three of them.

[95] And then I dated a girl with kids and I was like, oh, this is fucking impossible.

[96] I now feel bad for these guys.

[97] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[98] Well, he was exceptional.

[99] So I got lucky in that sense.

[100] But still, you know, there was a transition where, you know, I was all about my grandfather.

[101] My grandfather was, you know, captain of the fire department in Memphis for 30 years, then became a contractor, you know, after that.

[102] And he was just like, I mean, he was like John Wayne.

[103] Yeah, manly in quote.

[104] He was barrel chested and had a saying for everything.

[105] You know, I was like, oh, this kid at school was picking on me, Papa.

[106] And he'd be like, that's not your dog.

[107] You know what I mean?

[108] Like, it was like, What's that mean?

[109] You're supposed to know exactly what to do based on that.

[110] Yeah.

[111] He came from a generation of rub some dirt on it.

[112] Don't be a bitch.

[113] You know, like that type of thing.

[114] This whole generation of men who were told not to feel.

[115] And now we have something to figure out about it because now we're being allowed to feel.

[116] Well, and now were the grandpa in this scenario, as much as we'd hate to admit it, like, there is some guy.

[117] in America going, oh, Justin seems to have the way.

[118] I kind of want to model him.

[119] Like, it just happens, right?

[120] Yeah, I know what you mean.

[121] You're saying, like, there's this consciousness now that becomes a little pressurized because you're like, what do I need to extract from all those teachings that's valuable and how do I trim the fat off the rest of it?

[122] Yeah.

[123] I was with my wife the other day.

[124] I was, like, making this sort of half -joky analogy about how, like, there's this whole generation of women, there's this whole funny, weird role reversal because now there's this whole generation of men.

[125] It's like, you know, honey, I just feel like, and then these women are like, I don't know what to do with the feelings.

[126] You know what I mean?

[127] It's like, oh, it's uncomfortable for all of us.

[128] None of us have any fucking training.

[129] Totally.

[130] It's funny, but also, like, it's a real thing.

[131] And raising young males is one thing and raising young females right now is another thing.

[132] Yeah, we're opposite, right?

[133] I have two girls.

[134] Do you have boys?

[135] Yeah.

[136] boys and yeah there's a lot to unpack i don't envy you at all because here's the moment i always fear when i think if we had boys it's like someone's going to pick him on at school they're going to come home upset i'm going to hate that and i'm going to tell them what i know which is we'll either get punched for the rest of your life or just slug him once then it's over like i wouldn't know what else to say right you're like wayne do i want my kid to be a victim so that he can help this transition to where guys don't hit each other anymore do i want my kid to be the sacrificial lamb, that seems so scary to me. Thanks.

[137] I'll be carrying that around for a week.

[138] No, I'm kidding.

[139] Yeah, you better have your speech ready.

[140] Other than that's not your dog.

[141] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[142] I don't know if I still fully understand what that means.

[143] But yeah, man, it's just a lot to unpack.

[144] I try to be conscious of making sure we can live a life where we're not weirdly private, but we're conscious of making sure they can be kids for as long as possible and not have the way of somebody else, treating them differently because of something that their parents do.

[145] I don't know if you and Kristen have that.

[146] Oh, I have great fear that, like, kids are going to hang out with them solely because of that or resent them because of that.

[147] Like, to me, the two options seem both seem terrible.

[148] Either they're going to have fake friends or they have people who hate them for no reason.

[149] Yeah, so I have a good deal fear about that.

[150] My little girls did this frozen play.

[151] And I said, you know, like the little community bullshit thing.

[152] And I said, I had to tell my daughter, I'm like, you cannot tell anyone in this.

[153] thing that your mom is princess anna i said because that's hard right that's hard for a daughter that's yeah and i know you're proud and you should be able to say that but i'm just warning you that'll probably make other kids jealous and they won't know how to handle that feeling yeah yeah that's interesting yeah we have the same thing where like the kids at school with my five -year -old are like your dad is branch you know from trolls you know i guess for guys like us, you know, the hope is that we just keep instilling in them.

[154] We've got really fun jobs, but it's not who we are.

[155] And hopefully down the road, then that has more weight to it, I guess.

[156] How old are yours?

[157] How old are yours?

[158] About to be eight and six.

[159] Seven and six.

[160] Yeah.

[161] Right.

[162] Yeah.

[163] I mean, every age is formidable, right?

[164] But I feel like we're still at an age where it's kindergarten.

[165] Yeah, yeah.

[166] You know, I've done one world tour since we became parents.

[167] And, he was three.

[168] And so, like, we'd play a fun game every night where I walk out on stage and sort of like this silhouette.

[169] And I would let him, like, almost like a pro wrestler, I would say, okay, what's my pose going to be tonight?

[170] Like, and sometimes he'd pick some poses that I was like, I don't know how I'm going to work this out.

[171] Yeah, career -ending poses.

[172] Exactly.

[173] Exactly.

[174] I guess for the most part, like, I try to take the weight out of it and make it fun for him.

[175] Yeah.

[176] And look, it'll be what it'll be.

[177] And they'll have this weird challenge of being privileged, which seems bizarre.

[178] That's a challenge.

[179] But that'll be their thing.

[180] And, you know, we all got a thing.

[181] But I'm wondering, were you going back and forth, like Orlando, then Memphis, Orlando and Memphis?

[182] I'm wondering if you were like going to a place where your creativity and the fact that you sang and the fact that you liked to dance was like celebrated and embraced and then returning to a place where those things were liabilities socially.

[183] Couldn't be more spot on.

[184] Okay.

[185] But also in a weird way, you know, from a certain group of friends that were my closer friends that were less threatened.

[186] Well, I think I know one of them, right?

[187] Trace.

[188] Yeah.

[189] And I mean, his mother and my mother best friends in high school and had us three months apart.

[190] You were ordered to be best friends.

[191] Yeah, exactly.

[192] I mean, we're basically, but we're not even best friends.

[193] We're brothers.

[194] You know what I mean?

[195] Which sometimes is like worse.

[196] Sure, sure.

[197] You can.

[198] can't grow apart.

[199] Yeah, exactly.

[200] There's literally no option.

[201] But yeah, it started off, you know, before I got the first sort of job that I got at 10 in Orlando for MMC, as it was called then, that Disney Channel's Mickey Mouse Club, was I was starting to sing in talent shows around town at like nine years old and then, you know, end up singing at the mall in like the Christmas show.

[202] And then there was an open call audition for Star Search and I landed that and then I landed this gig on the Disney Channel.

[203] Yeah.

[204] Dudes in your school had to be so jealous of the fact that you're on TV.

[205] I think I was like considered even more alien and weird.

[206] Mm -hmm.

[207] It's funny you said it was literally just how you described it.

[208] We would film in the summers, but it was a six months in Orlando and then six months back home in smallville tennessee outside of memphis it was just such an interesting dynamic with all the other kids and like you said i kind of had to physically stick up for myself a few times because if i didn't then it would just continue to happen it's funny you say there's actually a scene in the movie where writer the young actor his character sam has been bullied to the you know nth degree and it's continued on And my character's telling him, like, I know you don't want to hear it, but you have to hit them back.

[209] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[210] You know, and it's a controversial take.

[211] And like we were saying before, that's a tough thing to weave.

[212] It is.

[213] Oh, it's impossible.

[214] It's impossible.

[215] Yeah.

[216] So I was not in the Mickey Mouse Club, but I skateboarded, which no one did yet.

[217] I had dreadlocks that I wore in a ponytail.

[218] I did all these things that were kind of overtly effeminate, I guess, quote, effeminate.

[219] Right.

[220] And girls loved it, and the dudes fucking hated it.

[221] So I was always at odds with the kids that were older than me, where the older girls were digging it.

[222] And for me, I kind of developed this thing.

[223] I'm just coming to terms with it, where I got my confidence from the fact that the girls liked it.

[224] I was like, okay, well, all these guys are calling me this and that, but the girls like it.

[225] So all my forward momentum was based on the back of girls like me. Like, that's what I used to prop myself up.

[226] And I wonder if you have a similar background.

[227] The only other thing that I really loved when I was a kid was basketball.

[228] And I made the team in middle school and played point guard.

[229] And, you know, a small group of guys who weren't going to the parties.

[230] We were going to practice and we were not underage drinking.

[231] We were on a different type of trajectory.

[232] Well, but also like surveillance.

[233] Like we were under a different type of surveillance, right?

[234] Oh, right, right, right.

[235] But I think the thing for me was with those guys that I could tell had some sort of standoffishness or I could tell we're going to be the guy that was like waiting for the moment to bully me. You can kind of start to feel that dynamic.

[236] And I think honestly, I think that's where I started to try to develop my sense of humor because I felt like I could disarm them if I could make them laugh.

[237] So I don't know that I, I mean, maybe I. I did.

[238] I don't know that I necessarily would become a different person around those kids, but I would definitely play to the room.

[239] Sure, sure, sure.

[240] You know what I mean?

[241] And I think if I could disarm those kids, then I could feel like, okay, maybe they're not as threatened or see me as, like, weird.

[242] Yeah, well, if you're willing to laugh at yourself, like generally when you're doing that, you're kind of allowing yourself to be the punchline.

[243] And I think that is very disarming to people.

[244] It's almost like, oh, Okay.

[245] Well, I guess I was going to do that, but he did that.

[246] So, hmm, I've got to move now.

[247] Yeah.

[248] No, totally.

[249] It was like beat him to the punch line, right?

[250] Yeah.

[251] Beat up to the punch line, don't get punched, right?

[252] Yeah.

[253] But we just found a bumper sticker.

[254] There you go.

[255] But also what's weird about that is you become skilled in the art of self -deprecation.

[256] Mm -hmm.

[257] It becomes literally the most powerful weapon you have on SNL.

[258] But it also, when you get to a a certain age, too.

[259] You have to check yourself on it because it almost sometimes can come across was that false humility?

[260] Yeah.

[261] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[262] Am I putting a Band -Aid over something else?

[263] Or for me, it developed into this pattern as well where it's like, I feel guilty that I have great shit.

[264] And so everything I get that's good, I add this layer of why it sucks to everyone.

[265] Negative.

[266] Totally.

[267] So that's the false humility.

[268] You're almost like shaming yourself because you're like, Here's a quote from someone who's one of the most famous people in the world, Jay -Z, who I've been able to collaborate with.

[269] So jealous.

[270] Yeah, that's jealous -worthy for sure.

[271] But he's also like a philosophical dude, you know?

[272] And he told me a story about going back to Marcy Projects.

[273] And one of his old friends that he used to like run the block with and deal with was like, man, you've changed.

[274] You're not the same guy that was he.

[275] here running.

[276] And he was like, uh, yeah.

[277] Duh.

[278] And his quote was, you haven't.

[279] You know, he's like, that should be more the focus is, you think I busted my ass so I could just be here.

[280] And so, yeah, like evolution should be celebrated, you know?

[281] It is funny.

[282] Yeah, because that is still like the ultimate burn from my hometown is that you've changed, but it's like, my God, I hope so.

[283] Man, I was a fucking idiot most of my life, you know?

[284] Right, right.

[285] No, totally.

[286] I heard something else the other day that was like, hatred is basically false admiration.

[287] Oh, uh -huh.

[288] You become basically a mirror for insecurity.

[289] I don't know how we got on this.

[290] This is what we do.

[291] Yeah, this is the show.

[292] If you heard it, we're bullseying the show.

[293] I've actually listened to a couple and I was like, yeah, no, this is like a therapy session.

[294] This is like, that's the goal.

[295] So I want to go through because I think this theme plays into something that you and I've never got a chance to talk.

[296] about, which I think this, of course, this is a great opportunity.

[297] First of all, I found out about you today.

[298] We have the same middle name.

[299] Randall?

[300] Oh, yeah.

[301] Yeah.

[302] Come on.

[303] Look at that.

[304] What do you think about that?

[305] I don't know that I've known anyone with the middle name Randall other than you.

[306] The only ever time I've ever heard of the name Randall was Randall Cunningham, world -class athlete.

[307] I'll take that.

[308] Were you named after an Uncle Randy?

[309] My dad's name is Charles Randall.

[310] His father's name is Charles Randall.

[311] Oh, okay.

[312] Yeah, and I passed that on to my first son, yeah.

[313] Okay, I was named after my uncle Randy.

[314] That would have been mind -blowing if we both had an uncle Randy.

[315] What would be even more mind -blowing is if your uncle Randy was my father, Randy.

[316] What was your father?

[317] That would be even more of my mind -blower.

[318] I would replace Trace as your real brother.

[319] Yeah, exactly.

[320] So we have this really interesting thing, which is we met at these enormous inflection points for our own lives.

[321] Like you were, as I remember, really recently left your band in sync and you were starting your solo career and it was fucking working.

[322] And another theme I thought about making this about is, I don't know that I've ever seen anyone navigate opportunity as well as you have.

[323] It's really, really, really incredible and admirable and so hard to do.

[324] And I do think you've made kind of an art form.

[325] You've taken a lot of things that can be stumbling blocks.

[326] Like Mickey Mouse Club's an opportunity and it could take you down.

[327] And then being in sync is this insane opportunity, clearly.

[328] You got hit by lightning.

[329] But then where do you go?

[330] The odds are you're not going to go.

[331] And then you do.

[332] And then you go to SNL and you fucking infuriate me because I was a groundling and you did better than I think I could have done.

[333] And, you know, you take that opportunity and you turn into this thing.

[334] So I just want to recognize that.

[335] I think you're brilliant at that.

[336] I don't know where the fuck the guidance comes from, but you've done it damn near perfect and it's impressive.

[337] But when we met, I had been trying to be an actor for 10 years, never got a job.

[338] That was my first job.

[339] I go into your garage and the whole network's there because MTV knows that their relationship with you is very valuable.

[340] Oh, really?

[341] Oh, yeah.

[342] Wow, this is stuff I didn't hear about.

[343] Yeah, so I had shot like six or seven of those already and no one was there.

[344] No one was looking over my shoulder going like, don't be this, don't be that.

[345] But I was in your garage for an hour and a half being told everything I could and couldn't say.

[346] Oh, God.

[347] And then entering into this situation, which you and I were both in, which is a very crazy heightened situation.

[348] And I want as much latitude as I can have to do God knows what.

[349] I mean, it's a very bizarre acting experience in that it's real.

[350] Right.

[351] And my life depends on that at that moment.

[352] You know what I'm saying?

[353] This is my first shot to be on TV.

[354] And if I don't do something spectacular, I'm just going to not work again for 10 years so for me the stakes were so high you did that okay so we do this thing and then as it was going on what i felt like i learned about you as a person is that you're just a beautiful guy like you're genuinely i'm not kidding like i saw like oh that's cool he still got his bro from home like you know oh he just took his buddy golf in that's cool he's out on a saturday He's not hungover.

[355] You know, I'm putting together all these kind of like clues.

[356] I'm like, oh, this kid's, you know, he's on the right path.

[357] And then when I brought up your dogs, you got really emotional.

[358] And I was like, oh, my goodness, I've gone too far.

[359] This is terrible.

[360] And this isn't even my kind of show.

[361] I'm not someone who wants to prank people or embarrass people, but I just fucking need that opportunity, right?

[362] And so all this stuff's happening.

[363] It all happened to you and I. And then I thought, this is a fucking beautiful dude.

[364] he cares about his dog.

[365] It's the only fucking thing you cared about.

[366] You didn't care you lost your house.

[367] You didn't care all your shit was locked up.

[368] When you found your dogs were somewhere, you were like, no, no. Well, back up, because I've publicly stated this before, that because of that day, and my buddy who took me out to Witset to golf got me so stoned, got me so stoned.

[369] And I've talked about this before that, like, I, like, swore any type of.

[370] cannabis off for at least a year, where I was like, well, the last time you did it, they took your house away.

[371] The last time I did it, I was in the twilight.

[372] So you have to go back and imagine the reason it was genius is because if you watch a lot of those other episodes, they happen in a parking lot.

[373] They happen in a grocery store.

[374] This was on my property with a gate.

[375] So you're walking in.

[376] And obviously, I think MTV, to your point, edited out a lot.

[377] lot.

[378] Because I remember I sat down on the porch, on the front steps, and I looked at Trace, and I was like, I'm so high, man. Is this real?

[379] Like, is this like, is this really at?

[380] Like, I'm so high.

[381] This is where, like, the funnier part, the dogs were actually my mom's.

[382] Oh.

[383] Oh, oh, oh, okay.

[384] Uh -oh.

[385] So even more so than, like, if I owned a pet.

[386] And my whole life, my mother has had some sort of terrier.

[387] I can.

[388] hern terrier or, you know, a pocket.

[389] And her dogs are everything.

[390] Right, right.

[391] The stakes are very high.

[392] Oh, they were so high.

[393] They got her on the phone, which honestly, that performance on the phone that you couldn't hear.

[394] I mean, it made me question everything about my mother.

[395] Like, I was like, I was like, oh, she's lied to me before.

[396] Well, you get to the point where you're, that high.

[397] And any time you go back to the moment of that experience, it's almost like muscle memory, like you get that high.

[398] Right, the PTSD.

[399] Yeah.

[400] So that's where it got really real.

[401] And I was like, if I don't get my mom's dogs back, because I was immediately going through like, oh, I'll get the house back.

[402] And I was so gone in that moment.

[403] The other good specific detail was like, no, we sent these bills or whatever to this address, which at the time was my old Tennessee address before I had just moved to that house.

[404] Yeah.

[405] And it was spot on.

[406] And I was like, this got lost in the mail.

[407] That explains this mixup.

[408] What was this?

[409] Pony fucking Express.

[410] Like, who sent this?

[411] I think my friends knew.

[412] me so well that they knew I'd be so detail -oriented about the whole thing.

[413] Because I was definitely for the longest time, like, just trying to poke holes in this whole situation.

[414] Yeah.

[415] Then when the dogs got involved, like, that's when all bets were off.

[416] And I just sat down on the stupid.

[417] I was just like, I had this thought.

[418] I was like, what if my mom never sees her dogs again?

[419] Will she ever forgive me?

[420] Oh.

[421] How old were you?

[422] I was 21.

[423] Yeah, I think I was 21.

[424] That's a lot.

[425] So mean.

[426] I was like, my mom will never forgive me. Funny enough, like, here's how I know I was so high because my good friend who was friends with Ashton and Wilmer had just told me that, oh, they just did this prank on Wilmer where they busted up a fake version of his escalade or something.

[427] Uh -huh, uh -huh.

[428] And, man, they got him so good, and it's this new show.

[429] I knew that there was a thing.

[430] Sure, sure.

[431] I feel like I remember talking to Ashton years later about it, because you got to sign off on it after it's over.

[432] The bit stressful for us to pull it off, believeably.

[433] And then right when you think like, oh, touchdown, you're like, oh, but now Ashton's got a sweet talk him into signing.

[434] Yeah, and he's like, dude, there's a whole list that'll go to the grave that just never signed off.

[435] And I was like, that's a shame because, you know, at the end of the day, nobody actually got hurt.

[436] Well, if Bastion didn't thank you directly, I owe you a million thanks because truly that show launched on the back of that.

[437] That is the number one prank we ever pulled.

[438] So memorable.

[439] It was in the news.

[440] It's what made the show a hit.

[441] I started a movie a month later because of that.

[442] I mean, it's solely because of the momentum you had, the way it all happened, it made the show.

[443] And it gave me a career.

[444] So I thank you for that whole bizarre day.

[445] we shared.

[446] And then you went on Saturday Live pretty soon after, which was great, because you had a wonderful sense of humor about yourself.

[447] Like, you could handle all that.

[448] And then you went on SNL and you kind of flipped it.

[449] And then you got to fuck with Ashen, which was brilliant.

[450] Oh, right, right.

[451] And then I was thrilled because there was an actual SNL character playing Dax.

[452] And I was like, get the fuck out of here.

[453] Someone's playing me. It was incredible.

[454] I think it is more admirable than you're giving yourself credit to sign off because I would be so pissed.

[455] And in that moment, like, to them be like, actually, you guys are great.

[456] It's all funny and fun.

[457] Like, that would take me a year to get there.

[458] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[459] No, I mean, listen, I'd be withholding the full truth if I didn't like six months later ago.

[460] You know what?

[461] Seriously, like, just call my mom randomly and be like, really?

[462] Like, you had to be a part of this so bad that, like, really?

[463] Well, and I also think it threads in the thing we're talking about, which is like masculinity.

[464] All that's in there, too.

[465] Yeah, no, totally, totally.

[466] Because I was thinking that the few people who have tried to make fun of that, I think if I had a son, how would I want my son to behave?

[467] And that's exactly who I'd want my son to be.

[468] Right.

[469] You know what I'm saying?

[470] Yeah, I also remember that you had a broken arm or was that just the thing?

[471] I usually have a broken arm.

[472] I just had my shoulders operated on you.

[473] You're right.

[474] I had like a swing.

[475] Right, because I was like, you, you, you.

[476] And I kept running.

[477] You were like, you threw the arm up like, don't, don't.

[478] We can fight in a month, but right now I've got staples in my shoulder.

[479] Yeah.

[480] I got to tell you one other funny things.

[481] So, you know, you had the luxury of like Ashton ran out and you knew him from television, so it had some kind of validity.

[482] There were many of those we filmed before it ever aired where Ashton was busy shooting 70 show.

[483] And then I would just say, the person who just fucked with him, hey, no worry, you're on a show called Punk.

[484] It's coming out in three months.

[485] Oh, wow.

[486] Passion is involved in some capacity.

[487] And the people will just be like, who the fuck are you?

[488] Like, you know, they did not want to sign off without him running out.

[489] I don't envy you that.

[490] I don't envy you that.

[491] No. But yeah, like, I think I still, every time somebody's like, hey, man, you smoke weed, I think I still have a new jerk reaction where I'm like, I don't know if I do.

[492] Do you?

[493] You know?

[494] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[495] if you dare.

[496] What's up, guys?

[497] It's your girl Kiki, and my podcast is back with a new season.

[498] And let me tell you, it's too good.

[499] And I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest, okay?

[500] Every episode, I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[501] And I don't mean just friends.

[502] I mean the likes of Amy Poehler, Kell Mitchell, Vivica Fox.

[503] The list goes on.

[504] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[505] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[506] We've all been there.

[507] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[508] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing, but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[509] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[510] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[511] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[512] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[513] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[514] Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon Music.

[515] Oh, one other thing I just wanted to throw out, I was so delighted to see that you participated in the Bee Gees documentary.

[516] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[517] That was an honor.

[518] I thought it was really well done.

[519] You know, the first opening statement, you know, Barry says over my years, I've learned that there really is no truth.

[520] There's just everyone's perspective of what happened or didn't happen.

[521] And it was just like, dude, that's it.

[522] Oh, yeah.

[523] That's such a wise thing to say.

[524] And then one thing that we can agree on in this podcast is that I'm a crier.

[525] And, you know, one thing that got me was at the end where he was just like, I give it all up to have my brother's back.

[526] And I was just like, Only child, what's that feel like?

[527] But yeah, man, I mean, the Bee Gees, I referenced them still to this day in my songwriting.

[528] Rock Your Body on my first album was birthed out of talking about how Andy Gibb, the youngest brother, right?

[529] How he started making records that were even like way groovier than anything that Barry and Robin had written.

[530] In full honesty, when they played a couple of his songs, I was like, oh, I guess I had thought that was them.

[531] Like, I filed some of his songs into there.

[532] I gave them credit for it.

[533] Totally.

[534] And it was really cool to see, I mean, obviously it's tragic, you know, that he was gone too soon.

[535] But yeah, it was cool to see how Barry felt like he could circle back around and through his songwriting could, you know, be a part of history.

[536] But it was so impressive, too, that they were like, okay, so that ride, unfortunately, is coming to an end.

[537] But we can write the shit out of songs.

[538] Let's do that.

[539] And the amount of success they have right?

[540] is so impressive.

[541] They've always been huge influences on me as a songwriter.

[542] Yeah.

[543] And arrangement, like real arrangement, because the statement I made in there that weirdly enough came to me while I was in the interview, there wasn't anything premeditated about it where I said, you know, when you listen to the, ha, ha, ha, ha, you know, like, those just could have been horns.

[544] If I'm, like, arranging a song, I would have arranged it where it's like, and then you guys sing staying staying alive you know what i mean like conventionally it would have been a horn section he was like yeah i was just doing this high singing thing because it felt like people liked it and they were responding to it but i'd never done that before my life and i was like he does it so well i felt like i had to practice my whole life to get that falsetto yeah if i remember they were in the studio and they're like we need something right here that's like like they didn't have the noise can you try to make a noise that could get it almost felt like it was going to be a placeholder and then they were like oh wait a minute and then it became their whole fingerprint oh man this is cool okay it feels like a wonderful thing that you chose to work with ferrell when you started because you know what a musical phenom he certainly has proven to be and how special to have got to do that with him i just wondered how you knew to do that it was just luck honestly i think we would have found each other at some point.

[545] The same way I feel about Timberland, who has been over the years prolific collaborator.

[546] Yeah.

[547] But yeah, man, we did do one record that we wrote together for InSync on our last album, which is a song called Girlfriend, that ended up having a feature from Nelly.

[548] Sure.

[549] And it was just this interesting time where, weirdly enough, everyone in the industry had heard that Michael Jackson was making another record.

[550] And at the time, there was this A &R for him by the name of John McLean, and he was soliciting songs from everybody.

[551] He was like, we want you to write something from Michael.

[552] We want you to write some from Michael.

[553] And I was actually one of those people, you know, lucky enough to get that call.

[554] And there was a song that I wrote on the last and sync album called Gone, which was a ballad that I had specifically wrote for him.

[555] And it was at this time, too, where I was 1920.

[556] and pieces of songwriting and arrangement and process of that were starting to really become more and more clear to me. And I was also at an age where there's also still enough naivety to just be like super instinctive about everything.

[557] You also like feel indestructible.

[558] Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

[559] You think you're a genius, which is the best gift you can have.

[560] And at that time, like we were literally on the cover of Rolling Stone, the biggest band in the world.

[561] And so we were like, is this real, you know?

[562] But I was having this moment where I was considering branching out.

[563] I was considering doing my own thing.

[564] I was just at this age.

[565] And I've told this story before, but I'll tell it again, maybe you haven't heard it.

[566] I ended up writing that song for Michael.

[567] It got turned down.

[568] You just heard that it was like, it's not going to make it.

[569] I was like, well, I want to record it and put it on the in sync album.

[570] Yeah.

[571] And so we did.

[572] And I had gotten a call from Michael where he said, I want to do that record now.

[573] And I was like, the record's out.

[574] And he said, well, I want to do a duet between me and you.

[575] Oh, wow.

[576] I said, well, it's an in sync record.

[577] I said, so what if it was you featuring us or us featuring you?

[578] Because you're kind of like thinking about how do you market that?

[579] Because at that time, I hadn't really done anything on my own.

[580] And I also felt a real sense of loyalty to the guys in my group.

[581] The song was turned down by the biggest artist of all time.

[582] And I think it still could work for us, and they agreed, and we put it on our album.

[583] And so I was having a lot of feelings about it.

[584] And we ended up not doing it.

[585] But I walked away from that conversation having this feeling of, man, maybe I could do something on my own.

[586] You know, it's like when you're in a group, I felt like one fifth of that group, like the style and culture and things that I had grown up loving and bringing to the table, were part of the melting pot of that group.

[587] Yeah.

[588] And that we led as a democracy.

[589] Yeah.

[590] A lot of compromise.

[591] Naturally, like, things get shape shifted into what they are because everybody needs to contribute, right?

[592] And you want everybody to have that equal contribution.

[593] And I had gone in the studio with Pharrell and Chad, so they were known as the Nettoons, right?

[594] And they were just literally the hottest production team on the planet at that point.

[595] Them and, ironically, Timberlin.

[596] And Missy, I had spoken to Farrell about, like, I think I'm going to do my own record.

[597] I think I want to do my own record.

[598] And he was like, well, I'm in.

[599] And then Farrell had said, you know, I was like, I've made these beats for Michael.

[600] John McLean turned those down as well.

[601] And we took all of that.

[602] And we took it and stripped it back and reworked and rewrote all of those songs.

[603] That's what ended up on my debut record.

[604] Weirdly enough, going back to MTV, we were filming this show called Launch.

[605] There's all these videos on the internet of me and Farrell, like, trying to come up with these hooks for all these songs.

[606] And to your point, that was probably the most formidable experience I've had in music.

[607] Because I went straight from those sessions over two weeks, straight to convincing Timberlin to work with me. You know, he and Farrell, both from Virginia, they have history.

[608] They were actually in a rap group together in high school.

[609] I don't know if many people know that.

[610] And so he was like, oh, well, if Farrell's working on it.

[611] Yeah, you got to leverage Farrell's belief in you.

[612] Totally, totally.

[613] And then literally the first song we did was Carmier River.

[614] It was like, I was having this moment where I can't take the most amount of credit for it.

[615] You know, it's like any great creative experience you have where there's a bit of a blur to it.

[616] There's not a tangible statement you can make about it, which is why you end up a 10 -minute rant about it.

[617] Sorry about that.

[618] Yeah, we try to make sense of things after the fact.

[619] They just happen and there's some weird magic and then you end up trying to explain it.

[620] Yeah, but it's never sufficient.

[621] At the end of the day, I felt so honored the beats that got turned down by the biggest of all time.

[622] I had them and my possession.

[623] You know what I mean?

[624] And like you said, like, what am I going to do with this opportunity?

[625] Yeah.

[626] And that's really what it was.

[627] Well, we all know what you did with the opportunity.

[628] Yeah.

[629] on Cody.

[630] Look, I was your audience.

[631] I was watching the Disney special.

[632] I was in that generation that grew up on InSync.

[633] What's so amazing is that we're sitting here talking to you and it's still exciting.

[634] Like your career has evolved and evolved and evolved in a way that you're still so incredibly relevant.

[635] You're a huge guest for us to have.

[636] It's not like, oh, the guy from that Boy Band from so many years ago.

[637] I think it's so impressive, as kind of what Dax said earlier, that you've navigated this.

[638] Thank you for saying that.

[639] I got a weird question one time, like, from, like, a snotty journalist who's like, well, what do you think your demographic is?

[640] And I was like, what does that mean?

[641] And he was like, like, you know, like, is it this age to this age?

[642] And I said, honestly, right now I'd say they're almost 40.

[643] Yeah, I'm 46.

[644] I doubt I'm your oldest fan.

[645] I've been really lucky to have some opportunities that have allowed me to have a exchange with people that are my age.

[646] Yeah.

[647] I feel grateful to have these moments where you do find out the stories about how just a song you wrote, you know, help somebody through something or that they saw, you know, a performance of yours.

[648] The ones that affect you immensely are the ones where you hear about somebody going through something.

[649] And they relay all that information to you in that the song you wrote or a character you played brought them that thing to literally change the path, sort of like a butterfly effect or whatever.

[650] Yeah, and to be able to comfort people through that is wild.

[651] And just providing a soundtrack to people's pivotal moments in their life.

[652] Like graduation, parties, like if that's the song playing, you know, it's just you're part of the fabric of that.

[653] It's really cool.

[654] For me personally, rock your body.

[655] that came out one second after I got famous and I now recognize I wasn't all that famous but I was among kids my age and so yeah when I hear that song I'm like oh that was the first time I was ever in a nightclub and people wanted to talk to me like it's just immersed for me that song takes me immediately back to those experiences but you know the reason you were going to leave that band no matter what is because what's obvious over your whole career is I can tell you just love fucking challenge you that's just got to be it So it's like, you know, you clearly crave challenge and new tests, which explains you doing what you did on S &L and then getting into acting and every other endeavor you've had.

[656] It's just very clear you're like, okay, I want to now test myself again.

[657] You could be right.

[658] I haven't really delved that far into that part.

[659] And if I'm being completely honest with you, it's because I fear that I might know too much.

[660] Sure, sure.

[661] That little bit of naivity.

[662] can sometimes push you into a space of doing something so unexpected that it just becomes a moment.

[663] When I was 10 years old and got my first job, I definitely was like, cool.

[664] And my mom said to me, you know, she's like, I'm going to have to go down and be with you the whole time for you to be able to do this.

[665] Is this something that you really want to do?

[666] And I said, let's go see if it works.

[667] And if it doesn't, we'll go back to Memphis.

[668] that show was, you know, two years.

[669] So it's kind of ironic because, like, Ryan Gosling, Britney Spears, Christina Aguilar, you know, Kerry Russell, like, all these names, the casting director clearly saw something in a lot of us, but the show itself, like, after we got on the show, was canceled after two seasons.

[670] So we still obviously had a long way to go.

[671] The world wasn't ready for y 'all.

[672] Yeah, we'll go with that.

[673] We'll go with that.

[674] But then, like, went back home, got a phone call from a guy Chris Kirkpatrick, who I shared a commercial agent with in Atlanta, Georgia.

[675] And he said, I'm starting this group and there's a guy that'll fund it, but I really am seeking out the talent.

[676] He'll later go to prison for a Ponzi scheme, but don't worry about that now.

[677] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[678] No, totally.

[679] Totally.

[680] But then again, it was the same thing.

[681] I said, let's go down and see what happens.

[682] And if not, we'll go back to Memphis.

[683] But when I was 14 years old, you hear stories about like some of the greatest baseball pitchers of all time.

[684] And they're like, When I was eight years old, I was going to be a baseball pitcher, you know, like, or you see, like, you know, Tiger Woods.

[685] It's like, I am going to play golf and I'm going to be awesome at it.

[686] Like, more awesome than you can ever imagine.

[687] Like, I'm going to redefine LeBron.

[688] It literally has the chosen one tattooed on himself.

[689] Yeah, and he can live up to it.

[690] I don't know.

[691] I never had a specific, like, these things just led to one another.

[692] It sounds cliche when you're like, I'm grateful, I'm grateful.

[693] But I truly am because I feel.

[694] feel like I've had the greatest teachers along the way.

[695] Yeah, you have a humility that allows for that, which is rare and is a gift, that you can sit with people like that and not try to show them, you know everything.

[696] Like, that's my favorite thing to do.

[697] I want to talk about Palmer.

[698] You've given us so much of your time and I want to talk about Palmer.

[699] And this is the compliment I want to give you.

[700] And this is going to sound weird if you're not an actor.

[701] But the hardest thing to do, I believe as an actor is to do absolutely nothing.

[702] It requires so much fucking courage and confidence.

[703] And if I look at my own career, it's like a second movie Outsidocracy, like I am swinging for the fences.

[704] I am going to redefine what character acting is.

[705] You know, and then slowly I gain some courage and some confidence.

[706] And by the time I get on parenthood, I'm like, oh, it can be me. I can breathe.

[707] I can chill.

[708] And what I can see about Palmer is that you've totally hit that here.

[709] Do you feel that?

[710] So again, you know, my first appearance on SNL, I was swinging for the fences.

[711] I was like, I want to be in every sketch and I want to be in everything.

[712] And I want to be, I'm going to be the musical guests and I'm going to do wardrobe.

[713] I'm going to do crafty.

[714] Yeah.

[715] And then I had the flu for like two weeks after.

[716] Oh, I bet.

[717] That was the most impressive debut hosting ever.

[718] that's ever happened for sure well thanks and i hated your fucking guts i know for sure i was in new zealand and you were so good that it got like the director of the movie i was in had it on tape and we all watch it like you're not gonna believe how like like um bring it on down to omeletown that was in the first episode yeah omelville and i was like i was this mix of like man he is fucking good and also like fuck this guy's gorgeous sings dances and now he's a fucking great sketch comedian Oh, it's brutal, brutal.

[719] Yeah, well done.

[720] Any response right now is just going to go the wrong way.

[721] It's a hard compliment to accept.

[722] I hate you.

[723] You're so good, I fucking hate you.

[724] It's just like weird smile.

[725] You're like, I'll never forget.

[726] I'm on set, and I've now been given the unbelievable opportunity and task of playing Sean Parker in the social network.

[727] Yeah, let's add in a David.

[728] Fincher movie.

[729] Written by Aaron Sorkin.

[730] Written by Aaron Sorkin, yeah.

[731] Again, these are the guys that I've been lucky enough to study under, you know?

[732] And the first time I show up in the movie, which is the dinner scene at the restaurant, it's not the first time you meet Sean Parker's in the dorm with the girl from...

[733] Yeah, getting out of the bed.

[734] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[735] I remember the stage direction to that scene, Sorkin wrote something to the effect of like, Sean walks into the room like Sinatra on a cloud everything he writes it's so poetic and you're just like I'm supposed to do that at that point I think we felt a responsibility to just make a movie and not try to play these people so close to it was a weird zeitgeisty thing right at the time and so I remember having conversations with Andrew and Jesse where we were kind of like how are you going to do it yeah yeah you go for a straight impersonation, or are you going to just throw that out the window?

[736] You shot last week, like, how'd you do it?

[737] You know, in my mind, I was referencing, like, Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire more, where he could literally tap dance around everybody.

[738] Yeah, float into rooms, yeah.

[739] In the movie, he's the con artist.

[740] He's the temptress.

[741] So he has to be able to avoid reality.

[742] I had this whole thing built up where I was like, you know, but a -bing, bada -boom, bada -boom, bada -boom, you know?

[743] And, like, all of a sudden, like, I did a few takes, And I walked back outside and I was like, do I sound like a ramped up version of Cagney right now?

[744] Like, hey, you know, you shouldn't sell the thing.

[745] You know, it's like, you know, like, and then Fincher like pulled me aside in one of the scenes that I was doing.

[746] He said, do you realize every time you say this line, you're crinkling your brow?

[747] And I said, no, I didn't realize I was doing that.

[748] He goes, yeah, you're giving all your power away because I can see what you actually feel.

[749] He goes, this character doesn't show that.

[750] I sort of walked away and I was like, okay.

[751] And then I said the line again without moving anything.

[752] And I was like, oh, I get it.

[753] All you have to do is sort of feel it.

[754] You don't have to let us know you're feeling it.

[755] It's hard.

[756] It's hard.

[757] It seems so simple and obvious, but it is boils down to faith that, like, my thing knows how to transmit this info.

[758] We're also, like, a generation of people obsessed with aesthetic, you know?

[759] We're such a visual generation.

[760] Like, we remember a picture in our mind of a moment.

[761] And so I don't know, man, I feel like some of my favorite actors, you know, the Brando's and Paul Newman's.

[762] The Shepherds.

[763] Yeah.

[764] Padman's.

[765] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[766] Yeah, the Shepard.

[767] When you watch a scene where an actor gets incredibly emotional, it bubbles out, but mostly because they're trying to hold on to it.

[768] They're trying to hold it in.

[769] And that's what we do as people.

[770] It's our natural reaction that when you get emotional, you immediately like, you inhale.

[771] And it's like you hold on to everything.

[772] And I find that to be so much more interesting to watch people.

[773] And this character specifically, even though he's got a strong southern drawl, he probably reminds you of guys you grew up with when you watch the movie, those guys that don't talk about how they feel.

[774] And I guess it's coming full circle about, like you said, at the beginning of this exchange is that, you know, the thing about bullying and the thing about a generation of men, like, having to hold on to so much because there's no time for you to feel.

[775] You got to get things done.

[776] Yeah, yeah.

[777] TCB.

[778] Yeah.

[779] And then you tack on the trauma of this guy spending 12 years in prison, and you find out why, as the movie progresses, a pretty cool story is Fisher Stevens.

[780] Have you ever met Fisher?

[781] Yes.

[782] He's friends of a friend.

[783] What a beautiful dude.

[784] Literally, he's like Kevin Bacon.

[785] Like, if you don't know Fisher, you know somebody who knows Fishery.

[786] So he linked me on the phone a couple of times with White Boy Rick.

[787] And I sat and talked about, I mean, this is a guy who went into prison when he was a teenager and didn't come out until he was in his 50s.

[788] And hearing those stories, I felt the trauma.

[789] Yeah.

[790] And so in a nutshell, you were kind of a star football player.

[791] You end up in prison.

[792] You come home.

[793] you, not by choice, end up kind of caring for this kid, and the kid's struggling with all these things we're talking about.

[794] I mean, he has interest that none of the other boys have interest in.

[795] And as you grow to care about this kid, obviously you want to protect them, you want to make him feel confident.

[796] What's really interesting, and this is to Fisher's credit, and our writer, Cheryl Guerrero's credit, is the boy, Sam, he's not struggling with it.

[797] He's happy to make these choices.

[798] These are just who he is, you know, and he's eight years old.

[799] They're innocent choices.

[800] His mother, who was played brilliantly by Juno Temple, she plays a single mom struggling with substance abuse, and she leaves him.

[801] She abandons him to go on this bender.

[802] Yeah.

[803] And so you have this character of mine whose parents have been gone as well, who his grandmother has taken care of him for most of his life, comes back home to live with his grandmother and just try to get his life together.

[804] And then gets thrown in this situation and has to deal with it.

[805] And these two characters, they start to give each other meaning.

[806] And it's a really, really beautiful story.

[807] We try to be so careful about how we told this story.

[808] The young actor, writer, his first film, and he just blows you away.

[809] I mean, he's such a ridiculous talent.

[810] But yeah, it was one of those scripts that I read that I was like this movie has to get made and I have to be a part of this.

[811] I have to help tell the story.

[812] Well, you're awesome.

[813] And again, I really feel like this marks another chapter in your acting is just huge and it's exciting and it makes me wonder your pursuit of acting versus your pursuit of music.

[814] What's harder?

[815] Different challenges on both sides.

[816] A lot of times that I feel like I've made choices in my career.

[817] It's been met with even the people around me who are close to me going, you got a good thing going here.

[818] Why would you want to do that?

[819] And it's because I just always loved all of the arts.

[820] Yeah.

[821] And I also grew up idolizing guys like Gene Kelly and, you know, Sinatra and guys that were in an era of Hollywood that you did it all.

[822] You did those things.

[823] You know, that's what it meant to be an actor was to be able to dance and sing as well.

[824] Yeah.

[825] I would love to see you in something like that, like a La La La Land type thing.

[826] where you got to pull all the fucking pursuits over the last 30 years.

[827] I'd love to be able to say that I had like 10 songs written for something like that.

[828] It's definitely been an idea.

[829] I feel like I want to find a way to bring some modernity to it.

[830] Yeah.

[831] And make it feel like it could work separately with each genre as well.

[832] I think Star is born.

[833] He did it.

[834] I was like, oh, I'm like, man, you're going to take that on.

[835] I don't know how.

[836] I'd be terrified and then boom.

[837] I feel like that was really well done.

[838] It feels a little bit like we might have a window in Hollywood and entertainment where those things can be a little more synonymous and that we might see even a handful of those types of things.

[839] So yeah, it'd be great to craft a whole thing.

[840] Yeah, yeah.

[841] Well, you're the dude to do it.

[842] Listen, Justin, Randall, what a pleasure talking to you.

[843] This is very fun to talk about the point.

[844] punk stuff for me, because I've bumped into you a dozen times over the years, and we've never really got to sit down and go like, well, we're both in that very crazy situation.

[845] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[846] But I adore you.

[847] Laura Moses says hi.

[848] She edits.

[849] She edits on our show.

[850] She texted me and said, like, you're going on Dax's podcast.

[851] And I was like, I am.

[852] And she's great.

[853] She's what I mean, talk about another genius.

[854] Yeah, yeah.

[855] Don't play Scrabble with her or challenge her to a crossword puzzle.

[856] No, she's a word smith.

[857] She is a word smith.

[858] Even her text, I'm like, you're doing too much, Laura.

[859] Yeah, yeah.

[860] Throw it away a little more.

[861] All right, man, well, great talking to you.

[862] Excited to see you again when everything is normal and wish you a ton of luck on Palmer.

[863] It comes out.

[864] When does it come out?

[865] January 29th.

[866] January 29th, Palmer, check it out.

[867] On Apple TV, plus.

[868] Hopefully by the time it comes out, there's not an Apple Plus Plus.

[869] Yeah, yes, yes.

[870] You never know.

[871] If there is, ignore the Plus plus.

[872] This is on Plus.

[873] And Timberlakes awesome and confident and wonderful.

[874] So everyone should go watch.

[875] And thanks a bazillion, my friend.

[876] Thank you, Matt.

[877] It's good to catch up.

[878] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[879] And now my favorite part of the show, the fact check with my soulmate Monica Padman.

[880] We're at your house.

[881] I think people should know the context.

[882] Okay.

[883] And we don't have the headphone amplifier here at your house.

[884] And so I think I'm not being recorded.

[885] But then I look at the monitor.

[886] You sound very loud.

[887] And you sound really loud in mine, but I sound dead quiet in mine.

[888] Weird.

[889] Do you have a poltergeist?

[890] Oh, my God.

[891] Congratulations.

[892] Liz.

[893] I wanted to post that picture of you so bad.

[894] I posted it.

[895] Oh, you did?

[896] Yeah.

[897] Well, I never know.

[898] I try to be cognizant of what photos you might object to.

[899] I never tried to post when I think you're going to object to.

[900] The one you're referring to is me looking scared.

[901] Oh, you look like you just saw a fucking ghost riding a headless horse.

[902] And maybe I did.

[903] We have such different opinions of what's acceptable to post and not.

[904] Like a lot of the pictures you post to me I do think are horrendous.

[905] Well, sometimes I have to post pictures of both of us looking horrendous because it's the only one the guest looks good in.

[906] So that happens pretty frequently.

[907] I'd say like one in three episodes.

[908] Yeah.

[909] I have to prioritize the guest.

[910] Sure, sure.

[911] But in general, you and I totally disagree about when you look pretty in a picture and when you don't.

[912] Right.

[913] When your face is neutral, like you had your Georgia sweater, you're cute, Georgia on my mind sweater, and you want to post a picture of it.

[914] Linguifranca.

[915] And so I took it of you.

[916] I took, I don't know, six pictures of you.

[917] Yeah.

[918] And we just had opposite opinions of which ones looked the best.

[919] And I know I'm right about it.

[920] it.

[921] Oh, okay.

[922] I was going to say something, some housekeeping.

[923] Oh, well, Jamil from Thursday, he emailed me and he said, I made a mistake.

[924] Oh, an expert mistake?

[925] Exactly.

[926] And I'm going to correct it.

[927] He'd gotten the term wrong.

[928] He said, Archimedes point.

[929] And remember then that had to do with Mass, and I was confused.

[930] It's Archimedean point.

[931] It's Archimedean point.

[932] And that means a hypothetical standpoint from which an observer can objectively perceive the subject of inquiry with the view of totality or a reliable starting point from which one may reason.

[933] In other words, a view from an archmedian point describes the ideal of removing oneself from the object of the study so that one can see it in relation to all other things while remaining independent of them.

[934] Right.

[935] So the analogy that seems like it would hold is like the difference between.

[936] studying water when you're in it.

[937] Yeah.

[938] Versus outside looking at it.

[939] Exactly.

[940] But this makes much more sense to what he was saying.