Alia Shawkat

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert.

[1] I'm Dan Shepard.

[2] I'm joined by Minnie Manny Mouse.

[3] Hi.

[4] One of my favorite actress is on today.

[5] Oh, she's so good.

[6] Alia Shawcat.

[7] My goodness, I love Alia Shawcott.

[8] Alia Shawcat is an actor and an artist.

[9] She's an incredible painter.

[10] We came to find out.

[11] Yeah, she has a really alluring spirit.

[12] She does.

[13] It's really art forward.

[14] There's a coolness.

[15] There's a confidence.

[16] There's a punk rockness.

[17] She is in one of my favorite shows Search Party.

[18] But, of course, you probably met her and fell in love with her in the rest of development.

[19] She's in the final girls.

[20] Duck Butter.

[21] What a title.

[22] Whip it.

[23] And then my favorite movie of hers is Cedar Rapids.

[24] Cedar Rapids.

[25] Fuck is she great, man. She has a new movie.

[26] It's out now.

[27] It's called Being the Ricardos, of course, about Lucille and Desi.

[28] But most importantly, the final season of Search Party is out now on HBO Max.

[29] This is one of these super hidden gem comedies.

[30] Yeah.

[31] I don't know how Hidden Gem it is.

[32] I'm just basing that.

[33] When I tell people I love it, I'm generally educating them on it.

[34] Right, because it started out on TBS.

[35] Which made no sense, as we discussed forthcoming.

[36] But thank you, TBS.

[37] Yes.

[38] God bless you.

[39] Started on TBS, so I think it was harder to find at first.

[40] Right.

[41] But now it's on HBO Max.

[42] Yeah.

[43] Yes, HBO Maximus.

[44] Okay, just before this started, we were talking about you don't ask God to protect the whole neighborhood, just yourself.

[45] Okay.

[46] And then you extended the ring out to us, which I thank you for.

[47] You're welcome.

[48] My friends and family.

[49] Friends and family.

[50] Discount.

[51] And we were playing cards last weekend with Huey and his beautiful bride Hayes.

[52] She knew to Spades he had played in the past.

[53] And he finally won a hand.

[54] He and Kristen were partners.

[55] And he thanked this sweet Jesus Lord.

[56] Sure.

[57] I elaborated on his prayer and I said, thank you, dear Lord, for taking out some time of deciding all those football games and basketball games and baseball games and boxing matches.

[58] to weigh in on this car game.

[59] That's what I want to tell you.

[60] There's no place in this intro, but there it is.

[61] Yes, it does.

[62] Everything does.

[63] Please enjoy Alia Shawcap.

[64] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad free right now.

[65] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[66] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[67] First of all, let's talk about it.

[68] your footwear.

[69] I love it.

[70] It needs to be a dress immediately.

[71] Is that bow?

[72] I wear them all the time.

[73] Python?

[74] It's snake.

[75] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[76] I think if all the animals, no one really gives a shit about killing, I got to imagine if you pulled America, it would be like, if you wore rats of shoes, people like, good, make use of those things.

[77] Or if you had like a mosquito handbag, people would be like, yeah, and snakes is close.

[78] Snakes are smart and beautiful creatures, but also like leather.

[79] It's like, you know, we all wear leather.

[80] Yeah, I wear the shit out of it.

[81] One can't ride a motorcycle and not wear leather virtually.

[82] Totally.

[83] One loves road rash.

[84] So I feel like by your estimation, would you agree with this assessment of our acquaintanceship?

[85] Okay, yeah, I'm excited.

[86] I know of you quite well because we have a mutual friend we both love.

[87] Yeah.

[88] I feel like we used to see each other all the time.

[89] We used to bump into each other.

[90] Yeah.

[91] But never like any ratatetet, no chit chat, really.

[92] No, like big old one -on -ones, as I recall.

[93] No podcasts, if you were.

[94] Certainly never a two -hour conversation about you.

[95] Recorded.

[96] It was like I would come to visit set.

[97] We're talking about May. Yes, May Whitman.

[98] I was trying to lightly foreshadowed.

[99] Like, so maybe he'd get curious.

[100] Like, maybe the listener right now is like, who is their mutual friend?

[101] And right now they're kind of going through the role.

[102] And we're like Tom Cruise.

[103] Top Cruise, the number one.

[104] There's a couple things that I find really intriguing about you.

[105] One is a performance -based one.

[106] But kind of a mysteriousness.

[107] You and I think are a bit opposite.

[108] Like, I'm an approval junkie.

[109] So I most certainly was opening the door to you.

[110] Like, please come in.

[111] I'm going to wow you.

[112] And you're like, I'm good.

[113] And I don't need to wow you.

[114] So that's my kryptonite.

[115] That's so funny.

[116] That's the impression of like our interaction before.

[117] In my head.

[118] Yeah, yeah.

[119] I'm like, yeah, she's just kind of like a cool customer.

[120] She doesn't need the Shepard show right now.

[121] I think the cool customer was definitely something I worked on.

[122] Oh, okay.

[123] I wouldn't say I was always, I mean, like, I'm pretty cool.

[124] I mean, the shoes.

[125] They speak for themselves.

[126] But it's like.

[127] Mustard top.

[128] Fucking Boa Boots.

[129] Yeah, do you always describe what?

[130] Actually, yes, it does come up a lot.

[131] Clown wig.

[132] YouTube earrings.

[133] Yeah, but the other person that gets this is Monica.

[134] As you even heard, we weren't even recording.

[135] I came in, and these Jordans are so the colors.

[136] Yeah, do you have lots of Jordans?

[137] Dax is a Jordan collector and has brought me into the fold.

[138] I've infected her.

[139] It's a real fold.

[140] I did it for a little while.

[141] Oh, you did.

[142] I worked with an AD who was, like, obsessed.

[143] And every day, he was like, oh, you got the sevens or something.

[144] And I was like, what are they?

[145] But I would get like the kids kind, you know, because my feet, and then they just like, they made my feet look really cute.

[146] What's I assure you?

[147] Seven and a half.

[148] Monica's a five point five.

[149] Oh, boy.

[150] So generally what happens is I go searching for a set and they don't have my size.

[151] And then I slide over to five point five to see if they have money's size.

[152] They're almost more fun on her than me. Like I can appreciate them on her.

[153] Also, she has this beautiful brown skin, which makes different things pop.

[154] Oh, don't look at it.

[155] It's very ashy right now.

[156] That's because she's washing your, that's another debate.

[157] I'm washing a lot of...

[158] I always got cream.

[159] Oh, you do?

[160] Yeah, do you want to.

[161] Do you full body wash?

[162] Yeah.

[163] Oh, God.

[164] I'm obsessed with moisturizing, though.

[165] I'm just like hand lotion in the car, face sprits.

[166] Have you ever done one of those Vogue skincare videos?

[167] No. Look at if I'm seeing it.

[168] Not trying to judge, but, uh, no. I'm not Vogue.

[169] Yes, you are.

[170] You're so Vogue.

[171] You know, I'm like real live Vogue, but like in like actuality, I'm so not Vogue.

[172] I just am dying to do a skincare video.

[173] What do they do?

[174] They're just like, so I wake up in the morning.

[175] Yeah, they start off with their green juice.

[176] And they're like, you know, I start off in the morning with this just to cleanse.

[177] And then I do a squirt.

[178] And they show the squirt like to camera.

[179] So the camera's like in the bathroom with that?

[180] Yeah, it's like in the mirror.

[181] Do you think is their actual bathroom?

[182] Kristen just did one.

[183] And I was coming unglued in the other room because it happened to be in our bathroom.

[184] I was overhearing the person that directs these videos.

[185] And my wife works with Anna, our friend, who's the nicest human being on the planned earth.

[186] And a very hard worker.

[187] And they were putting her through the ringer about the lighting in the bathroom and the camera angles and everything.

[188] And I just kept hearing it.

[189] I started yelling weird things.

[190] I'm like, they probably looks pretty good.

[191] Like I started getting like protective of Anna.

[192] Is it just because it's like Vogue is just like hard to please?

[193] Well, as they should be.

[194] Like I later was like, if you're going to play ball, you got to play ball.

[195] So like my wife said, yeah, she'll do this Vogue thing.

[196] I had nothing to do with that.

[197] But it was triggering in all these ways.

[198] Like perfection has to look like this.

[199] These are all like my fears.

[200] Yeah, yeah.

[201] She looks so good in it.

[202] If she didn't do all that stuff, like, compared to the other ones, would have been like, what's wrong with Kristen's face and bathroom?

[203] I definitely do some, like, face care.

[204] Do some serums and stuff?

[205] I do some stuff.

[206] I bought, like, a full -on Instagram facial thing.

[207] You know, those things that get you on the ads?

[208] I was like, yes.

[209] Got one, and then it, like, makes your face, like, it sounds terrible, but I look like a burden victim.

[210] Like, it, like, sucks all the oxygen out of your face, and you're just like, and then all these crazy lines.

[211] And I was obsessed with it.

[212] I just, like, left it on for so long.

[213] like, I look so good.

[214] Like, I was like so into it.

[215] You need to make one of these.

[216] I know, like, I got to get on it.

[217] As a child, would you get in front of that mirror and, like, put sketch tape on yourself and do weird things?

[218] Yeah, I would do some of that.

[219] Yeah.

[220] Yeah, it's nice.

[221] I used to put on makeup, like, my mom's makeup, but I always had freckles.

[222] I got more as I got older, but it would always look really weird putting on makeup over freckles.

[223] Was it a bummer for you?

[224] I didn't like him that much when I was younger, but this was all I got.

[225] It's my thing.

[226] They're like, the girl with the freckles.

[227] I'm like, that's me. But I sometimes see.

[228] photos of people who have as many freckles as I do or sometimes not even as much.

[229] And I'm like, whoa, that's a look.

[230] And I'm like, huh.

[231] Like, I catch myself in the mirror.

[232] Wait, is that a baby you?

[233] Yeah.

[234] That is absolutely adorable.

[235] Isn't that the sweetest photo you've ever seen that's been turned into an oil painting by Rob?

[236] Beautiful.

[237] And you're a painter.

[238] I am a painter.

[239] What kind of painter?

[240] I paint like oils and stuff.

[241] I do like really big ones lately.

[242] I have a studio.

[243] Well, you said big.

[244] What are we talking?

[245] They're like six by eight feet sometimes.

[246] Wow.

[247] That's enormous.

[248] I used to draw just in like a room in my house and everything was just like so hunched and tiny and really detailed.

[249] Now I really like I just like staple up a huge piece of canvas and then I could kind of use my whole body.

[250] This sounds Basque -Ead -esque.

[251] Yeah, I feel like every painter they're like, yeah, that's Basque Ed.

[252] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[253] Well, they were huge.

[254] And a lot of like mess and then control.

[255] Yeah.

[256] So that's like what I'm cut into.

[257] Yeah.

[258] I'm going to be in like an art fair soon.

[259] Which art fair?

[260] It's called Spring Break.

[261] And it's happening at the same time as freeze, but it's kind of like a smaller, cooler one.

[262] And isn't your collections called Controlled Chaos, a .k .a. A. A beautiful mess.

[263] Now it is.

[264] Can you imagine?

[265] A lot of gals ended up with that tattoo in the 90s.

[266] Beautiful mess.

[267] A beautiful mess.

[268] Wow.

[269] I mean, don't say it.

[270] Don't say.

[271] The motto of this show is messiness of being human.

[272] Oh, my.

[273] Yeah.

[274] Is that on the iTunes outline or whatever?

[275] Listen.

[276] We're changing it this year.

[277] We're going with mixed messages.

[278] Yeah.

[279] Because that's kind of Monica nice kink.

[280] Wait, can you just find that, though?

[281] What does that mean exactly?

[282] You like when people are saying mixed messages?

[283] When something appears one way but is another way.

[284] Bader Mindel frequency illusions.

[285] And then you reveal, oh, it's a completely other thing.

[286] Now we're intrigued because now it's novel.

[287] We're also obsessed with novel and proprietary.

[288] Ah, okay.

[289] These are kind of our obsession.

[290] And this is when I make a case for Monica of how outstandingly beautiful she is and she always fights back.

[291] It's the exact same thing you were just saying about the freckles, which is you see other people's freckles.

[292] I don't even see your freckles.

[293] Okay.

[294] But you have notoriously shitty eyes, though.

[295] Well, I do have bad vision.

[296] See mixed messages just happened.

[297] Like, she doesn't even see them, but also she can't see.

[298] So it doesn't mean anything.

[299] See how mixed messaging that is?

[300] Mixed messages.

[301] Yeah, I like that.

[302] I think that's the same message over and over, but yeah.

[303] Okay, so I try to explain to Monica and she doesn't buy into this, and I'll hit you with it.

[304] All we want is novel.

[305] I don't want you to look like a 80s vogue model.

[306] I watched this show, and sincerely, I said to Kristen, are these people, CGI?

[307] Right, right.

[308] Like, there was a whole cast of people that were impossibly perfect, in quotes, looking, and I was bored out of my mind.

[309] Yeah.

[310] How about Adam Driver?

[311] Like, when I first saw Adam Driver in girls, I was like, that's kind of cool that they cast this dude.

[312] And by God, four episodes in, I'm like, this might be the most attractive guy I've ever seen.

[313] Yeah, totally.

[314] Right?

[315] But it's also, like, sexuality or, like, attractive.

[316] is so much more than looking like super symmetrical, I guess.

[317] But do you find yourself attracted to the stereotype of the handsome guy on the cover of men's fit?

[318] I don't even know what the equivalent is.

[319] No, definitely not.

[320] It just has a lot more to do with like how somebody carries themselves and their confidence and like that's what's sexy.

[321] I think if you're a model, you're kind of like encumbered by being perfect in a sexual capacity.

[322] I'm sure they feel like they have to make the sound and do this and be.

[323] by the book because they're perfect.

[324] That's what they sold.

[325] Exactly.

[326] They advertised that.

[327] And that sucks.

[328] Like, then you can't be you or you can't find what's cool about you or unique about you.

[329] You want someone to have found Elaine.

[330] I do.

[331] Yeah.

[332] I think when you're not trying to fit perfection, too, you actually have to make more of an effort.

[333] And then if we're actually getting into, like, actual sex, I feel like sex should be so much more, I don't know why I'm bringing kids into this.

[334] But it almost like when you're a kid, when you first masturbate for the first time, Like, it's kind of messy and raw an animal.

[335] Yeah, I'm looking to transcend all self -consciousness in the experience.

[336] Yeah, totally, totally.

[337] And you want a partner who you think can meet you there or wants to go there with you.

[338] Yeah, totally.

[339] What a great detour that was.

[340] So fun.

[341] Delish.

[342] Riverside, California.

[343] You were born there.

[344] You were raised in Palm Springs.

[345] You have to tell me what a childhood of Palm Springs is like.

[346] Palm Springs is a really trippy place because it's like the class system is super present there.

[347] It's like really old.

[348] Super wealthy people.

[349] Some of the wealthiest in the world have homes in like Indian Wells.

[350] Lots of old movie stars like in the 50s.

[351] That's kind of what ended up bringing my family there was my grandfather was an actor.

[352] He had a weekend home there.

[353] I mean nominated actor.

[354] He was the male lead in Valley of the Donuts.

[355] Wow.

[356] He ended up retiring there.

[357] And then when my parents met in L .A., they decided to start a business there because it was like not a lot of people were living there anymore.

[358] And it was just like cheaper in the 80s and stuff.

[359] It's a huge boom and bus city.

[360] Yeah, totally.

[361] It's like super dependent on L .A.'s kind of whatever they're doing, right?

[362] Totally.

[363] So now it's like hot again when it wasn't, my whole childhood, it was just very empty, especially in the summer.

[364] It's like movie theaters would be practically abandoned.

[365] You'd buy one ticket and we'd just stay in there for hours because of the AC and we just smoke pot in the front seat of the theaters and just be like, should we go watch Walk the Line again?

[366] I've like literally.

[367] Walk the Line as a childhood movie for me. I don't know childhood teenage teenage.

[368] Okay, okay.

[369] I think I was 51 when we saw that.

[370] But yeah, it was just kind of like there's nothing to do, but kind of get high.

[371] So I always would go there to write.

[372] Like, if I had something to do, I would go there.

[373] And I'd write all day, and then I'd fart around the town.

[374] I'd be by myself and bored.

[375] And then I'd go to, like, chain restaurants, which I love.

[376] So as I would chat with staff members of these restaurants and stuff, I'm just really trying to get the vibe of it.

[377] And my conclusion was, like, it reminds me of Florida a bit.

[378] So you have this huge group of elderly people in Florida.

[379] And then you have all these kids that got sent to live with grandma and grandpa because the parents were so fucked up.

[380] It reminded me of that.

[381] There's like this drug use off the charts.

[382] I'm like looking at people and I'm spot and all these things.

[383] And I'm like, oh, there's a real undercurrent to this place.

[384] Totally.

[385] And it has this definitely darker side to it.

[386] And then like an old lady and a Bentley.

[387] And you're just like, what is the balance?

[388] And it's like her grandson who just like sold me something.

[389] And also in high school, I went to like a nice private school.

[390] My family was very, like, homemade dinner every night, very homey.

[391] But a lot of my friends were, like, public school, like, getting in trouble, and I like to hang out with them.

[392] So I kind of got to see both sides or, like, punk shows we'd go to or friends of theirs that, like, just lived in a park.

[393] And I was like, okay, you just live here?

[394] Like, you're 15 and just getting high or, like, kids doing meth.

[395] And I never, thank God, did that.

[396] But there was a period where I was just like, I want to try it out.

[397] Like, I want to be self -destractive.

[398] And I just ended up being, like, a podhead who did, like, bad MDM.

[399] a couple times, you know.

[400] But it had this very, yeah, like, fuck all kind of vibe.

[401] Looking back, it's kind of romantic.

[402] Also, I was acting since I was nine.

[403] So I would have this kind of dual life where I'd, like, come to L .A. and have this very kind of productive life where people are looking at me at a young age being like, you're special and we like you and felt so fun.

[404] And then half the year when I wasn't working, I was like back in this desert.

[405] Where you had no social capital.

[406] Yeah, and I just had a couple good friends.

[407] It was a nice child.

[408] I'm not saying it was bad, but it was very like, my mind just was like, I wanted to go back.

[409] Yeah, super code switchy.

[410] Some of the coolest people I've ever met are from the desert.

[411] Yeah.

[412] It breeds like an interesting kind of person.

[413] Well, also the environment, although appealing for a weekend vacation, it's a hostile environment.

[414] Sometimes 120 degrees.

[415] Yeah.

[416] Is your father, Chaldean?

[417] No, he's Iraqi.

[418] So he's from Baghdad.

[419] But I don't think he's Caldean.

[420] I'm like, I should know that.

[421] Muslim.

[422] So the Christian Iraqis are Caldeans.

[423] Right.

[424] And in Michigan.

[425] we have an enormous population of Chaldeans.

[426] I've shot a bunch of movies near Detroit.

[427] I fucking love Detroit so much.

[428] Yeah, it has one of the biggest populations outside of Iraq.

[429] Yeah, yeah.

[430] It's the biggest population and highest concentration.

[431] Okay, so he's not Caldean.

[432] I got really excited that maybe I would have been the first person you met in L .A. That knew what your father was.

[433] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[434] What aspect of childhood did that bring to it?

[435] Because Monica's father's from India.

[436] Is your mom Indian, too?

[437] Mm -hmm.

[438] So my mom was born and raised in L .A. and New York because her dad was the actor.

[439] I was never any religion.

[440] but culturally we were everything.

[441] She's like French and Norwegian or something wild.

[442] Yeah, she's Norwegian, Irish, and Sicilian.

[443] Her whole family is, like, from the Warlands.

[444] Like, we're super rich family there, too, who weirdly also owned nightclubs because that's what my parents do.

[445] They own a strip club.

[446] Oh, no. Yeah.

[447] Wow.

[448] How could that not in there?

[449] It almost never came out.

[450] How come that's not in the fucking research?

[451] I love your parents now so much.

[452] Yeah, they're really bad.

[453] I'm trying to write something about it right now, actually.

[454] Yeah.

[455] You got to.

[456] Were you in and out of the establishment ever?

[457] My dad was so strict.

[458] He was just like, you have to be 21.

[459] Whereas my brothers, I know, popped in there before they were 21.

[460] Sometimes I see the dancers.

[461] They used to have like a little lingerie store next door in the little shopping center.

[462] And they'd pop in.

[463] It's like I was very much around it.

[464] But it wasn't until I was literally 21.

[465] I took my friend, who was a gay guy.

[466] And of course, he was bored.

[467] He was like playing pool the whole time.

[468] It was like the first time I actually was like in there when it was open.

[469] And there was this moment where I was talking to my dad.

[470] And he was like talking me about my schedule.

[471] He was just like, so you fly to New York on Friday.

[472] And then this girl comes over and she asks about her schedule.

[473] And she was like younger than me and like really hot and like a string bikini.

[474] You know, and she was just like, so my schedule.

[475] He was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, Friday.

[476] But anyway, and then he goes back and talks to me about my schedule.

[477] My whole life had weirdly cracked open.

[478] And I was like, is this how I am how I am?

[479] Sure, that's a big clues.

[480] When you tell your therapist that story, they pull out their notebook.

[481] Right.

[482] They're like, oh, shit, I'm like, here we go.

[483] We got some references.

[484] I mean, that had to affect your perception of sexuality.

[485] Yeah.

[486] I think a big part of it was this idea of like, I'm cool.

[487] I have sex like a dude.

[488] You know, that whole persona of confident girls when they're young being like, I don't give a shit.

[489] You know, like used to brag about it when I was even younger.

[490] I was like my dad owns the strip club.

[491] And like I didn't even know what that meant.

[492] And they were too young.

[493] They were like 14.

[494] Like they're not going to go to the club.

[495] Well, it's dangerous.

[496] Yeah.

[497] Like it's punk rock.

[498] Totally.

[499] But again, then my dad coached our soccer team.

[500] Like he was so present as a dad.

[501] And that was like the biggest priority.

[502] But what was funny is because he He was Muslim and came from like such a different culture.

[503] And then landed in Hollywood where he met my mom.

[504] And then that's the only business that they knew.

[505] He was a bar back.

[506] My mom was a waitress at the body shop on sunset.

[507] Back up for yeah.

[508] Yeah, yeah.

[509] This is a riveted.

[510] Not to psychoanalyze mom, but dad is an Emmy nominated actor with some public forward facing her son or her father.

[511] And then she grabs a job over at a strip club.

[512] There's a lot there.

[513] I'm pulling out my notepad for that little wrinkle.

[514] She went to law school, dropped out.

[515] out and was like, this isn't for me. She was raised like a princess.

[516] His career was shit, so he didn't really have money by the time she was out of college.

[517] And she was raised like this princess who was like super well educated, like, uh, where's my, you know, what happened?

[518] Where's my trust fund?

[519] Yeah, exactly.

[520] She talks about their romance.

[521] It was very like, you know, my dad barely spoke English, but he had such a strong spirit and was like, I will succeed.

[522] Came with like no money in his pocket.

[523] And my mom was used to hanging around a very different kind of people.

[524] So when she met him, she was like, oh, this isn't the guy I'm going to marry.

[525] But I'll kind of teach you.

[526] I'll take you under my wing kind of vibe.

[527] And he was like in love with there right away.

[528] And they have a really beautiful balance because they're very ying and yang.

[529] Like my dad's strength or my mom's weaknesses and vice versa.

[530] Do you think your mom was drawn to that world because it was like in opposition to what she was supposed to do?

[531] The way she talks about is that like he was kind of like a spiritual guide for her, even if that sounds strange.

[532] Like he weirdly taught her the importance of things.

[533] My dad's like a very honest, good person.

[534] So yeah, it was so different from.

[535] the world of superficiality and some fame.

[536] Like, she was very triggered by fame because it kind of messed up her family when she was young.

[537] By the time it came back around where all of a sudden she has a kid who wants to be in it, she was very like, Hollywood's the devil.

[538] Your kids are going to end up owning a strip club in the desert if you pursue this.

[539] It's cool now thinking back on them meeting as they were young.

[540] I'm like, so rad.

[541] She had to be attracted by the uniqueness and the novelty of him.

[542] Totally.

[543] Yeah.

[544] He was a very positive.

[545] Sometimes in like the Hollywood of a all, whatever.

[546] There can be a very strong negativity, a pull of like comparing yourself to others and not being valuable.

[547] And my dad was like, we're here.

[548] We're alive.

[549] Let's make stuff.

[550] Yeah, a very positive person.

[551] Well, he had just crossed the world to do something.

[552] Yeah, and it was a struggle to get here.

[553] Okay, now here's where we're going to transition very softly into an area that you're going to hate, which is I'm going to tell you how much I like your acting.

[554] I find myself pretty judgmental of performers who I can tell have never been anything but performers.

[555] The difference of like life experience versus just experiencing like showing off when i watch you i can feel that like i feel that a part of your life is acting i don't even feel like it's the most significant part of your life yes or identity maybe is a better way to say it i definitely don't connect to it being my main identity i do really love doing it but the actual period of time of actual acting compared to all the other stuff to get there they kind of like outweigh so when you say you're like an act It's like you have to really love all the other stuff and like I haven't been on set in a minute You know I did like two jobs this summer and they both came out so I was promoting it but I haven't actually been on set Which is my actual work right showing up in the morning getting ready Learning most of your line yeah the majority of it Ideally taking a poop in the morning Probably not which will dictate how good you are the rest of the day Literally oh my god it haunts me but then like putting on the clothes and like the whole thing You know like really feeling it in my body and stuff and trying to create an authentic moment It brings me a lot of like tension and like stress and it's like never enough.

[556] Tightness.

[557] Very tight in my body and emotionally I'm like always on the edge because I feel like that's the place I get to when I'm doing a job.

[558] It's exhausting.

[559] I agree with you.

[560] For me, I've got to like step over all these things to do it.

[561] It kind of messes with your psyche a little bit after a while.

[562] I just noticed when I was younger I was like, a job's a job.

[563] I'm like, I get a job.

[564] I do it.

[565] And now I'm like, I don't need all the money in the world.

[566] Like I'm good.

[567] Yeah.

[568] And I'm like, so I'm okay right now.

[569] Thank God.

[570] And I just am like, I don't want to do stuff unless I'm like, like, oh, I actually need to express this in my body, and I really think I would be helpful to this story.

[571] Like, I think it actually is important to make.

[572] But those are sometimes few and far between because it does feel like if I'm not doing other stuff, I'm like, what am I pulling from?

[573] I have no energy.

[574] If I go job to job, and I'm just like on another set, which a lot of people I know do.

[575] And I just couldn't.

[576] I'm like so tapped after I do a job.

[577] I'm like, you don't have the endurance for that.

[578] I don't have it as much as I used to.

[579] And also the show Search Party that I love making.

[580] You know, We did five years of it, and we just finished it.

[581] And I love it so much, but it is such an endurance thing.

[582] And then I had a moment where I started to learn where I'm like, I don't have to do that to get the best performance, I don't think.

[583] I don't have to, like, destroy myself because it's not sustainable.

[584] That's also a confidence thing.

[585] Yeah, trusting that you can do it without it, yeah.

[586] Yeah, like, I got to do a movie with Robert Duvall and Robert Downey was also in it.

[587] Two actors who I can't imagine being as good as.

[588] And watching how they did it, there was none of that stuff.

[589] Yeah.

[590] You know what I'm saying?

[591] They weren't grinding.

[592] They had patience.

[593] They had their own pace.

[594] And then I'm standing next to other actors that have like, they've been working on this role for six months.

[595] They're living in character.

[596] Yeah.

[597] And they're all great.

[598] Everyone's great in the movie.

[599] But I just was like, I'm more attracted to that version.

[600] Totally.

[601] Where it's like, I just show up and like I let things happen.

[602] Yeah, like a flow, like a river more.

[603] Like I want to get like where I'm comfortable with it.

[604] And then in order to do that, I need to have a full life outside of it where it's like, I don't like feel better just because.

[605] I know I have a job.

[606] That used to be a big thing when I was younger.

[607] I was like, I'm not working.

[608] I'm not working.

[609] Who am I?

[610] And I was just like, I would just like, I can't keep doing this myself.

[611] Like, my whole confidence is whether I'm like, I get a guest spot on JAG or something.

[612] First job, by the way, 99.

[613] Good job.

[614] 11 years old.

[615] Yeah, I was already there at 11 years.

[616] I have a question about that because we just interviewed David Arquette.

[617] Oh, yeah.

[618] And he talks a lot about that like group in the 90s, like Leo DiCaprio and him.

[619] And, you know, that movie Kid 90?

[620] Soleil Moonfri's home videos of that whole time.

[621] Yes.

[622] Oh, right, right, right.

[623] And you see all these, like, people, and it's so specific, the vibe and the energy.

[624] And I feel like there's a similar group of your age.

[625] Did you guys have a crew?

[626] We definitely had a crew.

[627] I mean, we had a crew.

[628] Your first series regular was with May on a show called State of Grace, right?

[629] Yes.

[630] Which was, like, a wonder years for girls.

[631] Such a good show.

[632] We're trying to get it out.

[633] Yeah, it was like two and a half seasons back when they would be like, did you get the pickup or whatever?

[634] You know, like the TV's changed so much, yeah.

[635] But it's such a good show.

[636] It's like in the 60s, so we were like 13 years old, dressed up in 60s clothes and just like, it's like an adventure, like two best friends.

[637] It's really like wholesome, well -written show.

[638] And then Francis McDormon was like my Daniel Stern, you know, like did the voiceover of me. Oh.

[639] And I'm Jewish and I meet her.

[640] Well, I didn't know that was Daniel Stern that narrated Wonder Years.

[641] Neither did I. I don't even know who Danos turned in.

[642] You figured it out.

[643] I did two, context clues.

[644] Come on, man. You did?

[645] I know.

[646] I was just slower to it.

[647] But yeah, there was a crew.

[648] And what was the vibe of that crew?

[649] Sarah Ramos, I mean, and then our friend Landon Pig.

[650] Oh, I love Landon Pig.

[651] That crew, we used to hang out, like, every day.

[652] But I still trip out, I mean, Michael Angerano.

[653] I think I trip out on it now because now I'm, like, 32, and I know so many people that I've known for, like, a minute now.

[654] Do you know what I mean?

[655] It's not just like, we're all just here.

[656] We're all meeting at the party.

[657] I was like, I knew you and you were like 21 years old.

[658] And now this other generation that's actually in the early 20s, I'm like, what are you?

[659] Like you're a whole other life form to be.

[660] But yeah, that crew, I mean, we used to hang out all the time.

[661] I used to live in Silver Lake in this little apartment.

[662] And it just felt like the early 20s time.

[663] We were just like hang out every day and you're like every meal.

[664] Yeah.

[665] Watching like saved by the bell, getting stone, going to the roof and it was just like the most fun ever and all we do was yeah a lot of that me coming home the next day and being like guess you what sex is that are you at all a trophy hunter i'm embarrassed to say i have been in the past a trophy hunter like uh sexually yeah like if someone i had evaluated is having way more status than me right like to have sex with i was attracted to that yeah yeah yeah yeah okay yeah okay yeah okay good good good no i was definitely like the person at brunch like i was the Samantha, if you will, which I really had to, like, get out of it.

[666] I was like, I can't be Samantha forever.

[667] Neither could Samantha, you know.

[668] Exactly.

[669] She had to get out.

[670] She had to quit the game.

[671] She had to quit the game.

[672] Okay, now, to continue on the path of flattering you in a way you'll hate.

[673] I like it.

[674] Okay, good.

[675] So one thing is the authenticity.

[676] That's a thing I'm attracted to.

[677] The other thing is, and I think I got to tell you this, actually, when I saw Cedar Rapids.

[678] Yeah, yeah.

[679] Because I'd seen a rest of development, and that's a very specific thing you have to do on that show.

[680] And admittedly, I was watching it because I just did a movie with Arnett.

[681] So I'm like, I'm trying to find out who Arnett is.

[682] That's why I'm watching it.

[683] Because I hadn't seen it.

[684] And of course, it's fucking brilliant.

[685] But I'm probably focusing on him and then Bateman who I kind of look up to.

[686] You're maybe below my radar at that point because I'm just looking at these people.

[687] I want to be like.

[688] Yeah, actually, thank God I wasn't observing you all that much.

[689] I just wasn't.

[690] But then in Cedar Rapids, you do a thing that is very hard for me to do.

[691] You have a pay scene that I also love in certain comedians, which is to have the confidence, to live in the awkwardness before you relieve everyone with the joke.

[692] And that is something I really admire in great stand -ups is like that confidence and calmness and pace.

[693] It's very comforting as an observer because you're like, they're so confident.

[694] They got me. Exactly.

[695] You're never afraid.

[696] That's exactly it.

[697] I feel that way with good actors when I'm like, oh, they're on screen.

[698] Like, we're going to be okay.

[699] Yeah, we're good.

[700] Mickey Rourke is here.

[701] Yeah, yeah.

[702] Or like, he's going to make it something no matter what.

[703] They're not breaking the third wall.

[704] You know what I mean?

[705] I'm like, I'm lost in it for a minute.

[706] So I think you have that.

[707] The reason I think it's bold as an actor is we're in a business of getting noticed and of being flashy.

[708] I don't find you to ever be trying to be flashy.

[709] And then the reward of that is when you give us something, you've created your own world of believability for me. And now when you give it to me, it's that much more impactful.

[710] So like, Search Party, I became obsessed with Search Party when I started watching.

[711] Did may tell you the Texas Center?

[712] No. I asked her permission to read it, but maybe I'll do it at the end.

[713] Kristen and I started binging it.

[714] And right out of the gates, I'm like, well, this is a show built around you.

[715] You had to be the first person cast.

[716] You probably helped develop it.

[717] You're probably very instrumental in the direction it goes.

[718] And you're the least shiny part of the show.

[719] Right, right.

[720] Initially, it's like your friend is fucking brilliant, the gay kid who...

[721] John Early?

[722] Yes.

[723] I mean, off the charts.

[724] Your boyfriend is incredible.

[725] John Reynolds, Meredith Hagner, the genius who plays Porsche.

[726] Yeah.

[727] So I see this group and I'm like, this is someone very confident because you're letting everyone shine.

[728] You're mostly setting people up or reacting to them.

[729] But then as the chaos ensues, now you start coming out and shining.

[730] And I'm like, oh, she earned the fuck out of all this.

[731] Like, now I'm here for all this.

[732] Yeah.

[733] I have to give a lot of credit to the writing.

[734] Oh, I thought you were going to say the dolly operator.

[735] I'm like, this guy, Jeff, he goes, him and I. But you know what?

[736] Yeah.

[737] Great dolly on our show.

[738] Great crew.

[739] But, yeah, the writing of that character was really, I was the first person, Kaz.

[740] I have been very involved on the show for a long time.

[741] But tonally, they really created a character that was like, you would think I'm just the straight man. Yes.

[742] I'm playing it just like this subtle, like, I'm a wallflower, and I'm just reactive and very natural, which was kind of my wheelhouse at the time.

[743] But it also felt funny because when we were first making it, I was like, are we on two different shows here?

[744] And we all felt that way.

[745] Like John Early was like, we're really playing very different.

[746] tones and yet we're still listening like the scenes weren't awkward to shoot they were funny and he created something unique a rule i try to adhere to in screenwriting is like you have two options either the world can be heightened and the characters can be real or the characters can be heightened but the world better be real like you're what allows all those jokes for me to work because they would be annoying to me if the whole world was heightened and everything was loud right because you're actually the world now the characters can be heightened right and then it gets to kind of switch, especially with this last season, where...

[747] You flip the fucking script?