282 - MFM Guest Host Picks #5: Scotty Landes

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Good morning.

[2] Good day.

[3] Good evening to all you murderinos.

[4] This is my favorite murder.

[5] I am your guest host, Scotty Landis, from the Bananas podcast.

[6] Bananas podcast, I won't get into it too much, but it's the exact opposite of what you love about my favorite murder.

[7] We do not deal with death.

[8] We do not deal with dread or the darkness that creeps around every corner.

[9] We leave that to the pod gods themselves, Karen and Georgia, the all.

[10] Ultimate, ultimate true crime comedian specialist.

[11] I was a day one murderino.

[12] I know many of you were as well.

[13] After listening to the first episode, my first two thoughts were, one, this is going to be a huge success.

[14] And I texted Karen, and in a very Karen -esque fashion, she returned the text with, really?

[15] Do you really think so?

[16] Yes.

[17] Yes, I do.

[18] And two, I didn't know that Karen and Georgia knew each other.

[19] I knew them both separately, and it was really fun to hear their friendship develop in real time over a shared love of death and dread.

[20] I'm very honored to be here.

[21] I'm going to go way back with my stories because I like those early days.

[22] There's a time and a place for bands, for comedians, for emerging artists, where they're just doing it for them.

[23] It's an innocent time.

[24] It's before the big corporate sponsors.

[25] It's before all the pressure, the fans, and the touring.

[26] I like to think of this early era of my favorite murder as sort of the garage band for Karen and Georgia.

[27] They didn't know there were other people out there who had the same dark interest they did, but boy, were they wrong.

[28] You know it, I know it.

[29] And now, here on exactly right, let's get in to my picks for my favorite, my favorite murders.

[30] Welcome back.

[31] Thank you for listening.

[32] You just heard Karen's intro, which is eerie and creepy.

[33] I've always loved her voice.

[34] And that is why I decided for my first pick of my favorite, my favorite murder story, to be the babysitter murder, aka the Oakland County Child Killer from episode three.

[35] This one goes way back, way back to January 2016.

[36] Like I said in my intro, I am interested in the relationship of the, my favorite murder ladies and you can really hear it in this it was an innocent time they were naming their episodes puns how long can you possibly name episodes puns our favorite thirder fantastic i love it but very very hard to do for 270 plus episodes of a show about death and kids getting killed and people disappearing and poisoning and drowning and fires actually as i'm saying that they should have stuck to pun titles.

[37] So, why did I pick this story?

[38] Well, it's an early story that I feel encapsulates the thing that you murderinos love most.

[39] Dead children.

[40] Of course I'm kidding.

[41] It's about serial killers.

[42] It has KFC in it oddly.

[43] There's a private porn island.

[44] It's rich versus poor.

[45] You name it.

[46] This to me is what drew all of us in.

[47] We wanted to hear more.

[48] and their lighthearted take on something very serious helps all of us.

[49] You can also hear Karen and Georgia feeling this greater sense of relief sharing these things with each other and finding another person who is as fascinated and obsessed with it.

[50] It was a dark secret that a lot of us had.

[51] And as they're telling this to each other and kind of building each other up, it's the momentum of the storytelling that really drew me in.

[52] So this is before stay sexy, don't get murdered.

[53] This is before they had corners.

[54] This is before Stephen, before their meteoric rise.

[55] This is simply two very smart, very funny women becoming friends over other people's deaths.

[56] And what's better than that, really?

[57] To me, a day one murderino, this story is pure MFM.

[58] What's your favorite murder, Karen?

[59] My favorite murder this week is one that I was so, I've been so excited to talk about.

[60] because I, this was one of those ones where I went deep Wikipedia one night alone and had no, it was too late at night and often, there are not very many friends I have that I can be like, guess what?

[61] Guess what about these children that were murdered in the late 70s?

[62] Yeah.

[63] Not until I met you.

[64] We're the only people that won't text back.

[65] Are you okay?

[66] Are you doing okay?

[67] What's really going on?

[68] Yeah.

[69] So there were these, four kids were murdered in Oakland County.

[70] Michigan in the late 70s and they this whole case was called the Oakland County child killings and sounds fucking awesome already right so they found a 12 year old boy kidnapped and raped and smothered and that was the first one wow um and uh then like a week later at these I didn't write down I didn't do my super accurate homework but if people are coming here for facts they're in the wrong fucking place.

[71] Yeah.

[72] And also, it's all off Wikipedia, so you can get it and really, really enjoy it for yourself firsthand.

[73] But essentially, all 11 and 12 -year -old children.

[74] And so it goes, a boy, and then a 12 -year -old girl was found, kidnapped, not raped, bathed, fed, and then shot point -blank and left in the snow.

[75] How was the first kid killed?

[76] Smothered.

[77] Smothered.

[78] So those aren't the same murder.

[79] probably well right they don't they don't they probably didn't connect them then okay but then the third kid who was an 11 year old boy uh who was kidnapped and so he was gone for like he disappeared and so on say the seventh day or whatever they went on the parents went on the news and said please um you know bring him home so we can give him his favorite dinner kentucky fried chicken you know that thing they do to personalize.

[80] And the next day, they found his body.

[81] Don't tell me he had Kentucky fried chicken in his belly.

[82] Rape, smothered with Kentucky fried chickens left in his belly.

[83] No!

[84] Exactly what you didn't want to hear.

[85] Oh, my God.

[86] And he was also washed like the girl was.

[87] His nails were trimmed.

[88] His clothes were spotless.

[89] They were washed and pressed.

[90] And his body was still warm when they found it.

[91] So that's when they knew something super terrible was happening.

[92] Oh, my God.

[93] And then the last girl was 11, and she was, she disappeared, she was kidnapped, and then she was found murdered.

[94] So the girls were not sexually interfered with, and the boys were raped.

[95] Yeah.

[96] So that was just, that was like a big thing that happened.

[97] And they called, they, so after they got all that information, they called him the babysitter killer, which is, it's fucked up and almost sweet to him.

[98] Because the way he treated the kids?

[99] Because he, the way he, well, because of the way he left them.

[100] Which kind of implies the way he treated them was nice, except for we all know that's not true and imagine.

[101] Because he kept them for a while, which is a lot, but the nightmare part.

[102] Alive, alive.

[103] So, yeah, so that's horrifying.

[104] So, I know.

[105] I feel like when you're alive, there's some chance of escape.

[106] Like, there's some hope left.

[107] Yes.

[108] Well, while it's still happening, for sure.

[109] Yeah.

[110] But then it's just that thing of like, it goes to the total insanity and, I don't know.

[111] Depravity?

[112] I wish I knew the difference.

[113] Yes, depravity, for sure.

[114] But like, when you're really psychotic or whatever, where you're keeping the thing you're going to murder, like you know.

[115] this is all the plan and so you're keeping a child like a pet or whatever it's just beyond um but when they started looking at the suspects that were around oakland county um one of the people and this is this is where i went down the hole one of the people that was a suspect was like a 24 year old rich kid and his name uh shit i'm not going to find it um dang it uh That's okay.

[116] Christopher Bush.

[117] Okay.

[118] So his father was like either the GM or the vice president of one of the huge motor companies.

[119] Wait, it might have been GM and his father was the vice president of GM, or one of those ones.

[120] Yeah.

[121] Hugely rich.

[122] He was always in this big mansion by himself.

[123] His parents were always like working or on vacation or whatever.

[124] And there was a constant stream of young boys coming in and out of the house.

[125] Why?

[126] because he was a child molester so he was paying kids to come over and whatever and so he got arrested for sexual assault and child molestation several times like he was a known pedophile how do the fuck those people stay out because he was rich so he always bought him out of jail and cleared him and whatever and tried to do Stephanie so they went and found him and started looking through his room and looking through all his stuff.

[127] And they thought that they found a picture of one of the boys, I think it was supposed to be Tim, the third one, screaming, like a drawing of him with his hoodie on because I think they said he was found in a hoodie or something.

[128] So it was a picture of him with the hoodie looking like he was in total terror.

[129] But they don't know for sure that that's who the face was, but that's what he looked like and so it was like, it was the circumstantial evidence.

[130] That's such a small thing to go on though.

[131] Yeah.

[132] And they were trying to put all that together.

[133] But apparently his room was really messy and filled with all kinds of creepy stuff.

[134] And then one of the things that they connected, because apparently so that kid, Christopher Bush, of, they confiscated eight roles of film in his room.

[135] And it was all kitty porn.

[136] And then they find out, and this is the thing that stuff like this is what makes me so fascinated.

[137] It piques my interest in it.

[138] It's probably the writer in me where it's like, this is such a. good story separate from tragedy or whatever they figure out that there is um an island so i guess there's like an island chain up way north in the peninsula area of michigan and one of them is called north fox island and it's uh it was empty they thought and they find out that there is a christian boys camp a there's a camp like saint somebody's for uh wayward boys on on North Fox Island.

[139] The only way to get on or off the island is by plane.

[140] There's one airstrip down the center of it.

[141] And that when they go to investigate this island, they find out that they had set up this fake boys camp to get boys, like, poor children who would sign up for a place like that.

[142] So it was like this free thing, like come.

[143] And they were all being used in kiddie porn.

[144] It was just a kiddie porn ring.

[145] It was a kiddie porn ring, so when they showed up, that's what was happening.

[146] And it was nightmare.

[147] I mean, like, that's like a Friday of the 13th, Freddie Krueger nightmare movie right there.

[148] That's the thing for you.

[149] Which part of it do you obsess about?

[150] The idea that these boys would be there thinking they get to go to camp and what that turns into and the nightmare that it would be on that island.

[151] And also then when they go back, because someone, I was talking to somebody about that and they're like, why wouldn't they say anything?

[152] and I was like, I bet you these were the kids.

[153] They were probably getting kids out of juvie or in situations where they don't have their foster kids or like the most underrepresented.

[154] And they're already wayward, so no one believes these little shits because they're getting so much trouble.

[155] Right.

[156] Or they're paid.

[157] I bet because it turns out the guy that owns the island is this multi -millionaire.

[158] Oh, no. That when they bust it, they find out whatever.

[159] They realize that this camp is, there's no church affiliation.

[160] There's no affiliation.

[161] It's just these, it's a pedophile ring that had also been operating in like the really bad part of Detroit that was well known where like kids on the street, they would get kids and pay them and get them into that ring and pay them to have sex with them.

[162] And it was just this whole huge ugly thing, full on exploitation of poor children.

[163] Holy shit.

[164] So that gets exposed in the, in the baby civil killer investigation.

[165] That's fun.

[166] Which is amazing.

[167] And then they, they just, I just read an article that they found a man. So they had all these people that they suspected.

[168] And they found a man named Ted Lambertine who they got on kitty on those kitty porn charges where he was definitely involved in that, that, there was like the ring that they busted in the bad part of Detroit.

[169] He was somehow definitely linked to it or whatever it was.

[170] And this was a thing where a prisoner, a detective from Detroit was out in California interviewing someone about something else.

[171] And then the prisoner was like, I know who your babysitter killer is.

[172] Holy shit.

[173] And says it's Ted Lambertine.

[174] I knew him from this pedophile ring.

[175] We'd all go and pay to fuck kids in Detroit, essentially.

[176] And this guy told me, he basically pointed to a picture and said, Doesn't that look like Tim, whoever, the third little boy?

[177] Oh, my God.

[178] And so that that detective went back and went and they started casing this guy who is now 70 and only leaves his house to go to church.

[179] And da -da -da, and like living like this silent old man that no one knows anything about.

[180] And then they go into his house and they find all this evidence.

[181] And he will not admit that he was the babysitter killer.

[182] But he first probably like all the evidence points to it.

[183] All the evidence points to that.

[184] And he and they have him on all the.

[185] pedophile charges and all the ring charges and all that does he when did this happen when did he get busted 2005 oh my god yeah oh Christopher bush the rich kid killed himself in 178 so they kind of like assumed it was him because there was all that weird evidence and stuff Karen you know I'm all about vintage shopping absolutely and when you say vintage you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash exactly and if you're a small business owner, you might know Shopify is great for online sales.

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[201] Goodbye.

[202] so he was trapped in this weird world of money yeah i mean i think that's also really fascinating too of like you that's a person that gets to do whatever they want because of money same as those people at the north fox island yeah so like what did that guy get uh those people all disappeared the guy that owned the island they escaped to europe holy like flew left the island flew away and they just couldn't find him or extradite him money i love that that was this island that no one thought you just take it over who's going to fucking know right and build an entire camp there a fake church camp yeah yeah it's i mean to me like pedophiles and kitty porn that kind of shit is the darkest yeah i like serial killers that just kill random people obviously not good yeah but that kind of stuff yeah where you what is wrong with that person where that's there's not just doing the wrong thing, but they're, they're loving doing the wrong thing.

[203] Right.

[204] And to, and specifically to helpless people who can't make any decisions about what, you know, you don't think.

[205] Yeah, you don't think the way you do as an adult when you're a kid.

[206] You don't understand what's happening to you.

[207] Yeah.

[208] It's so, it's super ugly.

[209] And it's like that exploitation.

[210] It's just the dark, it's the darkest.

[211] Yeah.

[212] To me, it's like the closest thing to real monsters.

[213] Those people are real monsters.

[214] Definitely.

[215] yeah kind of a bummer though too so they're arresting the 70 year old and that's how it's ending well they they got him on the other charges but they can't get him they don't have enough hard evidence on those murders but they're positive they lined up because he also the murder stopped when he moved to Cleveland and when he moved to Cleveland he started going to church every day and they think that the priest there knows like they think he confessed to that priest and the priest isn't saying it.

[216] There's all kinds of things like that that are very clear.

[217] And it was like the days he wasn't at work or the days the children disappeared, all kinds of stuff.

[218] Those are always so interesting to me or like finding out that someone, you know, had someone clock in for them, even though they, or they have an alibi.

[219] And it turns out it's total bullshit.

[220] And here's how they know.

[221] I'm just, it's so fascinating.

[222] The detective work that you take to find that.

[223] And also those poor detectives, like the way your life gets affected.

[224] by having to go and investigate these people.

[225] I mean, nothing justifies the crazy murdering that's happening on the street of most black people today in America.

[226] I will never, I never, ever mean anything is justified in that way.

[227] What I mean is that when you, like as a detective, when you have to visit time and again, people who are depraved.

[228] So it's not just crime or like, I'm desperate and on drugs.

[229] and so I'm doing this thing.

[230] Or I'm going to fight with my wife and killed her.

[231] Yeah.

[232] It's the depravity of like a child rapist murderer.

[233] Coming face to face with the actual evil thing, which you and I probably never will unless we search it out.

[234] But these detectives, then knock on wood.

[235] But these people have to then delve as deep as they can into it.

[236] And all the facts.

[237] Right.

[238] And not kill them so that they can be brought to justice and have some jailhouse justice and just get killed terribly in jail.

[239] That's the ideal.

[240] But them getting even arrested is a small, you know, can't be a huge percentage of them.

[241] So even getting someone arrested has to be hard.

[242] So imagine retiring after never having solved this case.

[243] No, that's terrible.

[244] I know.

[245] And it ruins people's lives to go investigate this stuff and to discover this, like, it's just the seamy underside.

[246] Yeah.

[247] And I only, I surfed it on Wikipedia and was just like, I'm.

[248] mesmerized by how horrifying it is.

[249] Are you watching the new season of Fargo?

[250] Oh, yes.

[251] This is related.

[252] That's not like an, like, anyways, children are dead.

[253] That's not how I meant, but how this, the cop in it is, went to war and is now seeing all this insane stuff at home.

[254] Yes.

[255] And the, the toll it must take on you to have gone to war and seen shit that you would never tell anyone about and then come home and do that, too, as a cop.

[256] Yes.

[257] Which is how it happens a lot of the time.

[258] I just started thinking about the fact that this with the whole France bombing people talking about going to war again where I was like how many we don't have that many more men left that this country hasn't ravaged who do they think they're going to send to war?

[259] Right, who's going to yeah, the people who are going to yeah, enlist or have already enlisted.

[260] Right.

[261] Yeah.

[262] And yeah, and then have do you I mean there are plenty of people who come home and make lives but they're probably the people that didn't have super terrible things happen to them but there's it's still bad I know there's plenty of people or it's just it's still a horrific experience yeah I love that TV show so much it's so amazing this season is fucking out of control it's so cinematic that's gorgeous it's crazy and I love that Native American he's a doll he's cursing done stuff I would just watch a whole thing of her day.

[263] Yes.

[264] She's so funny in it.

[265] Well, and also that it finally came together of her and all those magazines, which I never paid attention to before, the stacks of magazines everywhere.

[266] I didn't think that she wants to escape.

[267] Is that what it's for?

[268] Yes.

[269] Okay.

[270] Like when she finally sat down with Ted Denson and they started out, these are spoiler alert.

[271] Sorry everybody.

[272] She's like, here's why I have this obsession is because I'm not supposed to fucking be here.

[273] Yeah.

[274] Yeah.

[275] Yeah.

[276] And then that's his childhood home.

[277] Yes.

[278] If they live in, and how fucking depressing, they just live your whole life in the same house.

[279] Yes.

[280] And there's some people that are happy with that and want it.

[281] Yes.

[282] And then there's some people who just dream of going to California.

[283] I know.

[284] Why do I think it would be so much easier then than it is now to like break away and do that?

[285] In the 70s?

[286] Because you can't get traced.

[287] You can go and change her fucking identity.

[288] Yeah, probably.

[289] Yeah.

[290] Yeah, I thought there was one part where she was on the bus and I was like, oh, she's out of there.

[291] This, you were not going to see Kristen Dunst anymore.

[292] No. And she said, here's the thing.

[293] Kristen Dunst is one of the most brilliant actresses of our time and no one knows.

[294] I am, I was very surprised to like her this much in it.

[295] When I saw her, I was like, okay, here we go.

[296] But fuck, she's so good.

[297] Well, because I saw her and I thought, oh, this is going to be like a quote -unquote comeback thing.

[298] But she is, every person in that cast is brilliant and she's equally brilliant.

[299] I agree.

[300] I'm proud of her.

[301] I am too.

[302] Good for her.

[303] We're definitely ending it on an up.

[304] And welcome back.

[305] I hope you loved that story as much as I did.

[306] It's upsetting.

[307] I'm sure their new details.

[308] It's five years later.

[309] I'm going to Wikipedia at all night, maybe with a piping hot bucket of KFC chicken.

[310] Maybe not.

[311] Moving on, my second favorite story from my favorite murder, February 2016, another early one.

[312] Number five.

[313] Again, they had puns back then.

[314] This was five favorite murder.

[315] I mean, it's a great title.

[316] I can't say that they're wrong.

[317] But the reason I picked this one is because it's a classic.

[318] Both Karen and Georgia both say this is a true crime classic.

[319] Georgia is the one that brings her favorite murder to this episode, and it is the Martha Moxley murder.

[320] I just got chills all over.

[321] The murder is of a 15 -year -old girl.

[322] again, I think this is where my favorite murder made a turn.

[323] When you hear these two talking, and maybe it's because both Karen and George were very familiar with this, it's fun, it's gossip.

[324] This could be two friends sitting in the shadows of a bar, in the corner, saying to each other, did you hear about this one?

[325] And the other one says, of course I did.

[326] This is a classic.

[327] It has everything.

[328] It has mischief night.

[329] I didn't know what mischief night was.

[330] I grew up in Baltimore.

[331] No idea what mischief night was.

[332] every night was mischief in Baltimore.

[333] It has a murder, of course, of an innocent girl.

[334] It has a teenager whacking off in a tree.

[335] You don't hear about that every day.

[336] At least I don't.

[337] There's mentions of Kobe Bryant.

[338] There's mention of rich versus poor in that dynamic and how the judicial system fails repeatedly to get these murderers.

[339] There's also a six iron and semen.

[340] So if I haven't enticed you with this intro already, I don't think my favorite murder is for you.

[341] And if you haven't gone back, I encourage you all.

[342] Listen to those first seven or eight before the wave of popularity hit them and you hear a lot of sofa cushion squeaking.

[343] You hear a lot of throats voices being cleared.

[344] It's pretty much the perfect time for true murderinos to dive in and revisit what made my favorite murder so special.

[345] So here it is from five favorite murder, five favorite murder, episode five, February 2016, Georgia's telling of the Martha Moxley murder.

[346] All right, well, mine is my favorite murder this week is one that I'm sure you know about, and it's a classic, and I feel like I just need to get out of the way, because whenever, and there's been recent news updates about it, and whenever I see it, whenever I watch a documentary about it, I'm fucking in it.

[347] Yeah.

[348] It's the murder of Martha Moxley.

[349] Oh, Georgia.

[350] You know?

[351] I got to tell you.

[352] Just the name Martha Moxley.

[353] Moxley, the word Moxley.

[354] It's the best name and it's the worst story.

[355] That's just like, and she's just a fucking kid.

[356] Yeah.

[357] Yeah, so those who don't know, don't know anything, apparently.

[358] Martha Moxley, in 1975, she was a 15 -year -old girl living in Greenwich, Connecticut, which is a fucking Tony town.

[359] Love the word, Tony.

[360] don't they have like their own gates and stuff it's like truly like crazy rich yeah and it's like you live on acres yeah so martha moxley's body was found beaten in her yard the night after Halloween um it was she was beaten they found half of a golf club there which is what had been used to beat her she's like a cute pretty this doesn't matter she could be ugly it's still terrible but she's you know chill fuck and so the person they She looks like a girl that's in a black and white picture In an 80s year book She's like that perfect girl Like the popular but like But she's also on student body Like she's popular and smirmed She's not mean, you know Yeah, freckles Totally genuine smile Like she'd probably end up being like a like a lawyer for Like the ocean You know those guys?

[361] Yeah Like a lawyer defending like Actually getting something good done OSHA Is that a thing?

[362] OSHA, yes Yes.

[363] But Oceans is the work environment making sure it's safe for people to work.

[364] There.

[365] She'd be a lawyer for them.

[366] Okay.

[367] I like the ocean, too.

[368] It's kind of nice.

[369] She just has dolphins all around her.

[370] Anyhow.

[371] She totally has dolphins.

[372] So the person who ended up ultimately getting arrested and put in jail for this murder, but not until 2002, was her neighbor who lived across the street who was her age named Michael Skakel.

[373] who this is so unimportant and such a stupid fact of the whole thing, but probably the reason why it's a famous murder is that the Michael Skakel's family was related to Senator Robert Kennedy's wife, Ethel Kennedy, Ethel Skakel Kennedy, who RFK has been in on this podcast, is my favorite murder in the past.

[374] Anyways.

[375] So what recently happened is that Michael Skakel, has been released from jail.

[376] Oh, I didn't know that.

[377] They filed for a new trial because he was not adequately represented by his defense attorney.

[378] Who doubt it.

[379] The habeas petition was granted.

[380] The judgment of conviction is set aside and the matters referred back.

[381] So for retrial, meaning as far as I know, so he got out and as far as I know, it doesn't look like they're pursuing the case anymore.

[382] Ooh.

[383] Because I guess, you know, they had very little.

[384] it was all circumstantial evidence not even that wasn't very strong so surprising that he got convicted however he admitted that that night somewhere between 10 and 2 in the morning or something like that he was in a tree masturbating while looking in Martha Mox's window yes that was the justification of why his seaman would be on her body was on her body yeah okay that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life.

[385] Right.

[386] I mean, clearly he had pretty good lawyers the first time around if they're coming up with shit like that.

[387] It's just...

[388] I know this is insane bias because I've seen this, like, so many versions of this story.

[389] But it's, but I've decided.

[390] I've decided.

[391] But I mean, it's because of things like that.

[392] Well, the problem with it is that there's other, there's other strong suspects, you know, like the, um...

[393] The brother.

[394] The brother who was making out with her that evening, which is why maybe Michael got jealous and killed her or did she catch him jerking off like how did she come out there do you suppose well I don't think I think she was out because it was mischief night right was it the night before Halloween or Halloween it was uh yeah sorry I know you're so the night before Halloween yeah mischief night which I didn't know it's a thing I know it's not a thing out here I think it's it might be exclusively for rich white people in Greenwich.

[395] It's also in Detroit which is terrifying.

[396] Oh, is that?

[397] Yeah.

[398] Slightly different tone of that mischief night.

[399] Every night is mischief night in Detroit.

[400] Yeah.

[401] Yeah, I've never heard of mischief night until I heard this story.

[402] Yeah, me too.

[403] So, yeah.

[404] So, like, the most obvious answer is usually the correct answer.

[405] Yeah.

[406] And him jerking off in a tree and not being the killer is not the obvious answer.

[407] That's right.

[408] well and also just then why weren't there other people even you know like it just didn't seem like there was other people brought forward because this is one of not just a safe town or whatever it's like an exclusive shut off city yeah but here's the thing is there the skakles had a um had a tutor named um john let's see where they're right john something foreign can Ken Littleton.

[409] Oh, okay.

[410] So he was the tutor, and they were like, this guy's sketchy.

[411] And so he was a suspect for a long time, too.

[412] Why was he sketchy?

[413] Do you remember?

[414] Because maybe he had a hard -on for Martha Moxley.

[415] Oh, okay.

[416] But he says he never even met her.

[417] Okay, but then so recently, Kobe Bryant, here's another, like, relative, Kobe Bryant's cousin.

[418] His name is Tony Bryant.

[419] Okay.

[420] like why there needs to be you know connections to family members that are famous i don't know says that he knows who killed martha moxley he's from this town oh and he came out recently and said i know who actually did it and it wasn't michael's gaggle no um he says it was two of his friends who lived in um where do they live the bronx i believe yeah two friends visiting him from the Bronx.

[421] They went to Moxley's neighborhood the night of the murder, and this guy, Bryant, was with them.

[422] The two friends reportedly picked up Skakel's golf clubs from Skakel's yard, which is what she was murdered with, on a whim and told Bryant they wanted to attack a girl quote, caveman style using the clubs.

[423] Bryant says he left the neighborhood and learned about the murder later and the friends told him they committed a crime, but he never said anything.

[424] So now he's saying he's coming forward with this story.

[425] If the story is true, I call bullshit on him leaving.

[426] He was there.

[427] People are going to tell you to your face.

[428] They're going to kill a girl and you're like, well, I've got to go.

[429] Bye.

[430] So what kind of person?

[431] I mean, look, whatever.

[432] There's all details.

[433] You could run a million scenarios that are like, I just don't think a teenager would be like, would leave.

[434] Even if he was like, I don't want to murder anyone.

[435] I just want to see what happens.

[436] Or I don't believe these guys, you know.

[437] Well, the other thing I remember hearing is that The Skagel's golf clubs, the set of clubs were in their attic, that the cops found them later with that one club missing.

[438] So the idea that they were picking golf clubs out of a front yard seems a bit bullshity.

[439] Or did someone stash the golf clubs up there after they realized the murder weapon was a golf club or...

[440] That could be connected to them.

[441] Yeah.

[442] Did Michael Skagel do it?

[443] Put the golf clubs up there.

[444] The dad, the mom.

[445] weren't the dad and their mom gone they were gone like they they're they dad and mom almost didn't live there they were like teen boys that lived on their own rich white teen boys running a muck that lived on their own that sounds terrible now am I wrong to assume that Kobe Bryant's cousin is black and that the kids coming in from whatever but did you say Brooklyn or the Bronx coming in from the Bronx for black that's an assumption we can make I would I would think that the Greenwich, Connecticut cops would see three black kids walking around on mischief night and at least ask a question.

[446] Totally.

[447] If not harass the fuck out of them.

[448] And then how did Michael Skagel seeming, I guess, go back and get on this poor girl.

[449] This poor girl and her poor, every interview, like, her family is like, die hard.

[450] Like, we never did anything else with our lives, but try to get justice.

[451] Yeah.

[452] It's fucking heartbreaking for this poor.

[453] family.

[454] There's, I remember, I remember seeing this story way early in a, it wasn't forensic files, but it was like one of those ones and they interviewed the mom.

[455] Oh, she's, she seemed like a thousand miles away.

[456] I remember watching it and just going, oh, I never want to see any, any murder victim's mom speak again because that's the most painful thing.

[457] You know what hurts me?

[458] The brothers, brothers of the murder victims always bummed me out.

[459] Because they're like, I should have been there to help my little sister.

[460] Yeah.

[461] terrible well also i don't like the idea that so he has served is it 30 years in prison or 20 no he didn't get arrested until 2002 oh so this is crazy like white people justice where it's a rich guy who basically kind of did a symbolic time and now they're faking out some black people to say hey maybe we did it and then his thing goes away probably he got he didn't Michael Skigle didn't get arrested until, and unconvicted for 27 years.

[462] He was free.

[463] That was this whole thing happened.

[464] I think it was 2002.

[465] So I remember having watched the whole story of the murder, and then like that happened.

[466] It was insane.

[467] I never thought he would get anyone would get arrested for it.

[468] And now he's fucking out again.

[469] So he spent a couple of years.

[470] I just think that the logic of.

[471] Oh, wait.

[472] So 2000, he was arrested.

[473] and then yeah now he's out yeah the logic of oh just the logic of um a very rich teen boy who gets spurned and maybe even shamed like his older brother who ruins his life in every other way gets the girl that he likes him having this huge crazy emotional reaction in the moment that he maybe hugely regrets even but that uh maybe even a girl that he was obsessed with yeah that sparking murderous rampage makes way more sense than just a teen going, I'm going to kill a girl tonight, caveman style.

[474] You have to be a very specific type of person to be able to do that in the first place.

[475] It's not like going, I'm going to sniff glue.

[476] And then there were two other kids at Michael Skakell's boarding school later who said, yeah, he admitted to it.

[477] Yeah.

[478] So these kids from the Bronx would have probably gone back and bragged about it and there would have been more people saying that they did it and not Kobe Bryant's cousin yeah but I just hate that idea that I mean it most black people have a hard time driving around Los Angeles California yeah you're gonna roll up into Greenwich Connecticut yeah and just be like let's see what we can do murder wise like wander around with clubs I don't think so no yeah you're right and I just don't understand why this guy who has a family Kobe Bryant's cousin would want to do that but there's fucking narcissistic people who want attention all the time.

[479] Or maybe he really believes it.

[480] Maybe he believes it.

[481] And maybe he doesn't, he's remembering incorrectly.

[482] He really believes that's what happened.

[483] I, here's what I will say.

[484] I love the idea that we still get to talk about the Martha Moxley murder, that there's something still happening with it.

[485] That's fascinating to me. So no one's in prison for her murder still.

[486] Did, I want Michael Skagel not to have done it.

[487] Like, I want there to be a different answer, but I don't think there is.

[488] I just think that, I think that the thing it comes down to with me with a lot of these stories is my irritation over the fact that people accept, um, kind of like, like if you're a white guy wearing a button down Oxford shirt, you can kind of do whatever the fuck you want.

[489] And people will be like, oh no, that nice boy down the street.

[490] Yeah.

[491] Like you can, you get to hide in plain sight with this camouflage and meanwhile be whatever and people will not believe it.

[492] Yeah.

[493] They'll immediately believe three black.

[494] kids driving up from the Bronx to kill this one girl.

[495] It's just such a bummer because I think what I don't want him to be guilty is because he is such a fucking loser and such a little twerp that he doesn't deserve.

[496] I want it to be more sensational because she deserves to not have just been killed by this little jerking off little shit face.

[497] Yeah, who is jealous of a thing.

[498] That's a, that's like a friend's own murder.

[499] That's what that is.

[500] Or like, you want to fuck my brother and not me, I'm jealous.

[501] And there it is.

[502] Another absolutely bone -chilling, riveting story from Georgia and Karen, the my favorite murder ladies.

[503] Murderinos, it has been an absolute pleasure to be here today.

[504] If you want to listen to the bananas podcast, if you need a break from torture, from people being thrown off of bridges or buried in gardens, come on over to the bananas podcast.

[505] I host it with a great comedian and one of my very, very best friends of the world, Kurt Brownoler.

[506] We're on exactly right.

[507] We're on Stitcher.

[508] You can really enjoy us and maybe laugh a little if things are coming in on you and you feel like, wow, this world is a really awful place.

[509] We'll say, hey, you know what?

[510] It is an awful place, but it's also really silly and it's really absurd.

[511] And you've got to laugh at it or you'll go absolutely crazy.

[512] So thanks so much for listening.

[513] This has been Scotty Landis for my favorite murder.

[514] Stay sexy.

[515] Oh my gosh.

[516] I'm so excited.

[517] I get to say this.

[518] I've never been sexy and I still haven't been murdered.

[519] So this is a really big deal.

[520] I'm halfway there.

[521] Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

[522] Goodbye.

[523] Elvis, do you want a cookie?