Best of 2021

[0] Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, the best of Armchair Expert, 2021.

[1] It's pretty exciting.

[2] It's hard to make this list, right?

[3] It is so hard.

[4] I'm sorry if we didn't do a great job because, first of all, our memories are bad.

[5] Yeah, I'll start there.

[6] Second of all, it's been an incredible year for the show.

[7] I mean, really, we could have pulled a clip from every single episode, but we can't because we don't want it to be five hours.

[8] Yeah.

[9] Not only is this the best of 2021, but we also have to announce.

[10] that we're going to do three shows on the Pacific Coast, first Seattle, then Portland, then San Francisco, February 1st, February 2nd, February 3rd, which is around the damn corner.

[11] And tickets go on sale Friday, December 17th at 10 a .m. local time for all three of those markets.

[12] Luckily, they're all three in the same time zone, Pacific.

[13] P -T -T -ST, P -T -Slits and Dicks.

[14] P -T -T -Slits and Dicks.

[15] Do you say PST or P -T?

[16] I say P -T.

[17] Okay.

[18] You say P -T?

[19] Yeah, and I think it's wrong, yeah.

[20] I think you would think it's that physical therapy.

[21] Okay, so we are coming, arm -chared and dangerous.

[22] We're going to be in Seattle, Washington, Portland, Oregon, and San Francisco.

[23] So if you want to come see us in the ever -adorable David Ferrier, please buy tickets on Friday, December 17th at 10 a .m. Go to armchairexpertpod .com for ticket links, and we hope to party with you in those great cities.

[24] Please enjoy some of the best of 20.

[25] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to armchair expert early and ad free right now.

[26] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[27] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[28] He's an armchair expert.

[29] He's an option Xxper.

[30] Episode 369, Andrew Huberman.

[31] I want to go back to the Sun thing.

[32] Me too, me too.

[33] Because I have self -diagnosed seasonal effective disorder.

[34] I really think I do.

[35] And do you think part of that is because if I'm not exposed to the sun and I'm not making as much testosterone, then I have less energy, and then that makes me lethargic and sad.

[36] Well, you're asking a chicken or an egg question, right?

[37] Because Monica's a great sun worshipper.

[38] She always will be seated outside in direct sunlight.

[39] We'll all be in the shade, and Monica always is in direct sunlight.

[40] And I'm always like, this is an unpopular thing to even think of in this day and age.

[41] but you're from India.

[42] Like your people, they didn't march north.

[43] They didn't turn white.

[44] You were designed to live in a certain climate.

[45] I wonder if you're literally answering the call of something you can't even explain.

[46] So I love these questions.

[47] So my labs worked a lot on how to get great sleep and improve mood and reduce stress and get the timing of all these hormones and things right.

[48] But this might be kind of tool number one for any and every person listening to this, is the best thing you can do for your biology is to view sunlight early in the day and again in the evening, so -called low -solar angle sunlight.

[49] And so here's the practice, and then I'll tell you the biology behind it.

[50] Within 30, but certainly within 60 minutes of waking up, not talking about shift workers, but you get up at a normal time, 5, 6, 7, 8 a .m., whatever.

[51] Get outside, unless you have macular degeneration, no sunglasses, not through a window, because it doesn't work as well.

[52] You don't have to stare directly at the sun without blinking, but get bright, light in your eyes for 10 to 30 minutes first thing in the morning.

[53] Okay.

[54] This is a thrilling experiment I'm going to try.

[55] Do that again in the evening.

[56] So when the sun is low in the sky, there's a contrast between yellow and blue that is important for setting a number of systems.

[57] But what are you doing when you do this?

[58] Okay, you have neurons in your eye, nerve cells that have nothing to do with pattern vision.

[59] They're not involved in looking at contours, faces, et cetera.

[60] but they connect to a little area above the roof of your mouth called the super -chaismatic nucleus.

[61] That is your brain's clock.

[62] Say it one more time, it's so sexy.

[63] Super -kyosmatics.

[64] The super -chaismatic nucleus.

[65] It's actually there's, it's, it's, it's, it's above that.

[66] Supra -chaismatic, just above.

[67] So every cell in your body has a 24 -hour clock.

[68] Those need to be coordinated.

[69] So imagine you go into a watcher clock store.

[70] You want all of the clocks to be on the same time.

[71] Otherwise, they're alarming and belling at all the different times.

[72] That is terrible.

[73] when you don't get sunlight in your eyes for more than a day or two in a row, you can miss a day, but if you start missing two or three days, you're going to be messed up mentally and physically.

[74] You will have gut issues, you have brain issues.

[75] Now, we used to only see this with jet lag.

[76] When you're jet lag, this is what happens.

[77] Okay, and there's a lot of intricacy of this, but get that sunlight early in the day.

[78] Now, if you live in the UK and it's cloudy, you say, well, it's so cloudy here, all right, look, as long as you don't live in a cave, there is light coming through those clouds.

[79] Yeah.

[80] You need to be outside longer in that case, 30 to 60 minutes.

[81] But a couple great things happen when you do this.

[82] And then I'll talk about the evening light.

[83] First of all, you have a stress hormone called cortisol.

[84] Everyone thinks it's terrible.

[85] But you need cortisol released once every 24 hours.

[86] And it will happen once every 24 hours no matter what.

[87] You want that pulse to be early in the day, not late.

[88] In fact, late shifted cortisol is a marker of depression and chronic anxiety.

[89] 9 p .m. cortisol is what we look for for depression in the lab.

[90] Oh, wow.

[91] And in solving.

[92] They know more than I thought they knew.

[93] They know everything.

[94] So getting that morning pulse, you will start to notice as you do it because it's a kind of a cumulative effect.

[95] You'll start feeling more energetic from it.

[96] That's the cortisol pulse and with it an adrenaline pulse.

[97] When I say a pulse, I just mean the release into your system in a brain and body.

[98] Episode 348 with Mila and Ashton.

[99] You just waited perfectly into a pre -existing argument between Monica and I. We've been fighting for a month now.

[100] I told her to stop washing her body with soap.

[101] I said, tits, slits, and pits.

[102] That's what arm cherry came up with that, not me. And then I added souls and holes.

[103] Souls and holes.

[104] But you do not, you should not be getting rid of all the natural oil on your skin with a bar of soap every day.

[105] It's insane.

[106] Do you guys wash your whole body?

[107] I don't wash my body with soap every day.

[108] Okay, good.

[109] That's good.

[110] Okay.

[111] But I wash pits and tits and holes and soles.

[112] I wash my slits.

[113] I wash my slits and my tits.

[114] I wash my armpits and my crotch daily and nothing else ever.

[115] You don't?

[116] Exactly.

[117] And look at his skin.

[118] Let's talk about his skin.

[119] I got to borrow a lever 2 ,000.

[120] It just delivers every time.

[121] Textbook soap.

[122] Nothing else.

[123] Nothing else.

[124] That's true.

[125] I can't believe I'm in the minority here of washing my whole body in the shower.

[126] I can't like.

[127] Who taught you to not wash?

[128] I didn't have hot water growing up as a child, so I didn't shower very much anyway.

[129] But when I had children, I also didn't wash them every day.

[130] Like I wasn't the parent that bathed my newborns ever.

[131] We only did because it was part of the nighttime routine.

[132] We could care less about their cleanliness.

[133] We just put them in there as like Pavlovian.

[134] But then as soon as we didn't need help, we haven't watched them since.

[135] It's been like six years.

[136] That's how we feel about our children.

[137] We're like, poof, something smells.

[138] Now, here's the thing.

[139] If you can see the dirt on them, clean them.

[140] Otherwise, there's no point.

[141] I mean, I will say when I work out, I have a tendency to throw some water on my face after a workout just to get all the salts and the whatever.

[142] I wash twice a day.

[143] Yeah, you got to wash your face.

[144] I don't know, guys.

[145] I don't know if you need to wash your face.

[146] Dax, that's too much.

[147] That's too much.

[148] You wash your face.

[149] She won't just do an experiment.

[150] All I'm asking for is like a 30 -day trial where we don't fuck with soap on the face or the rest of the body.

[151] Pits, lits and tits, fine, and just see what the hydration level is of the skin, the moisture level.

[152] Let's just see what happens when everything levels and neutralizes.

[153] It's a totally, totally fair experiment.

[154] What is your hypothesis, Dex, that will happen?

[155] She'll have no dry skin, no dry skin, which we call, I'm escaping the name.

[156] No ashyness on her legs or arms.

[157] When she scratches, you won't see any mark, which is a thing that she doesn't like.

[158] I think that's just because I have dark skin and you can just see the scratches.

[159] Well, hold on.

[160] When your legs are super moisturized.

[161] which we've witnessed, they don't do that.

[162] All right.

[163] Okay.

[164] So it's a very small request.

[165] It's a 30 -day trial.

[166] What do I do for oily skin?

[167] I have very oily skin and I break out.

[168] But you have oily skin because you're washing your face so much and your body's trying to push all this oil out to re -moisturize what you're stripping off every twice a day.

[169] I agree with tax on this one.

[170] Yes, twice a day with two different types of cleansers.

[171] Me too.

[172] Yes, and I feel bad for you guys.

[173] It's not your fault.

[174] You got sucked into this terrible treadmill of pressure to this and that.

[175] You're all victims.

[176] I'm just saying it's time to just let the skin be itself for 30 and see where we're out.

[177] Episode 390 with Bradley Cooper.

[178] I remember when it's 2011, right, when they were like Sexiest Man Live thing.

[179] And I remember when my publicist, who I was still a dear friend, it was like, hey, you know, this thing.

[180] And I was like, and I was on the set of Silver Linings Playbook, and I was like, that was like, that was like, that was like, wait, like, I thought it was a joke.

[181] I think I thought it was dad.

[182] I think you were, I thought you were pranking me. Because I always had this fear that Dax's...

[183] Pumped reunion.

[184] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[185] And then I thought, oh, my mom's going to be so happy.

[186] But the fear I thought was like, this is not going to be good.

[187] Everybody's going to be like, what?

[188] And the truth is, that is what happened.

[189] No. Oh, no, no, watch, watch, watch, watch.

[190] When they announced it, I'm not...

[191] Because back then, like, they would do it on the Today Show and they'd have, like, the person's cut out.

[192] Yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah.

[193] When they announced, this is, I mean, we could always go back and look at the moment, I guess, on YouTube, but my memory of it, I think I'm probably right.

[194] It's like, and boom, and she's like, oh, oh, it's Bradley Cooper.

[195] Literally like that.

[196] Come on.

[197] Bro, bro, bro, bro, I am not kidding.

[198] And I went, oh, shit, my fears are right.

[199] And then people protested that Ryan Gosling should get it.

[200] There was a protest.

[201] No, no, no, no. There was a protest, and I thought, oh, no, see?

[202] But that is, like, that all happened.

[203] That's not, I didn't make that up.

[204] Like, that was for real.

[205] I believe that that happened.

[206] I believe that one woman.

[207] Yeah.

[208] That one woman.

[209] And I do believe those deranged fans of Gosling.

[210] Yeah, I believe all that.

[211] But that's 2%.

[212] Yeah, that might be 2%.

[213] I don't know.

[214] But it felt like a lot.

[215] Old Sedaris on episode 373.

[216] I started writing on computer, 2000.

[217] Even your journal?

[218] Yeah, but I print it out and make a book out of it at the end of every season.

[219] But my deal is that like this morning I wrote in my diary and one week from today I will revisit what I wrote today and I'll clean it up.

[220] That means if there are three sentences in a row that start with the word he, I'll just clean it up.

[221] So my diet, this diary was pretty clean.

[222] Sometimes I would put things in like I would say my friend Brian.

[223] Because the reader might think, who's Brian?

[224] Right.

[225] Or change a name because the editor said, well, people might think you're talking about your sister, Amy.

[226] So maybe changes Amy's name to something else.

[227] Right.

[228] But it's pretty cleanly written.

[229] And how much will you write in general each day?

[230] Well, today I wrote two pages, but the day before yesterday, I wrote five pages.

[231] I go out at midnight and walk for five miles.

[232] Wait, every night?

[233] In the city or in the country or wherever you're at?

[234] Everywhere.

[235] And you walk five miles a night?

[236] Yeah.

[237] How long does that take?

[238] It would think like an hour and 45 minutes.

[239] Wow.

[240] Who do you go with?

[241] I go by myself.

[242] Every now and then I'll go with somebody.

[243] But two nights ago, and when you're on the Upper East Side, you can not run into anybody.

[244] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[245] And I've had like three little run -ins with people that were like uncomfortable.

[246] So a couple nights ago, I'm walking up Park Avenue, and I turned right on 72nd Street, and there's this woman, and she said, I'm just finishing smoking this joint, but I never smelled pot.

[247] She was smoking something.

[248] And then she said, hey, baby, you need a date, you want a date?

[249] I'm tight.

[250] I got a nice tight pussy.

[251] You want some of this tight pussy?

[252] And then she was glomming on to me, right?

[253] She was maybe in her late 20s.

[254] She had a t -shirt on that had stains on it.

[255] She'd just gotten out of somewhere.

[256] You don't mean, like jail or psychiatric hospital?

[257] Yeah.

[258] And to get her away from me, I said, I'm gay.

[259] She said, I'll fuck you up the ass in.

[260] Oh, wow.

[261] She's versatile.

[262] Yeah, and then nothing would talk around of it.

[263] So I went to a building with a doorman, and I went and knocked down the door.

[264] And the doorman came and said, what do you want?

[265] Are you together?

[266] As I said, no, she said, yes.

[267] And I said, no, we're not together.

[268] We're not together.

[269] I said, she won't leave me alone.

[270] And she said, he's gay.

[271] He's dead and he don't want any of my pussy I told him I'll turn him I said I'll fuck you in the ass I'll turn you and the doorman said You don't know that he's gay Maybe he's just married Maybe he's a family man And I'm like Oh my God Why are we talking about this?

[272] You know like Can't you shoot her?

[273] And it was one of those situations Nothing Nothing would make her go away Nothing that was said And so that took five pages The next day because I did not want to leave anything out of that because it just got crazier and crazier like when the doorman got involved and it turned out she had just been there and asked to use a bathroom and he sent her away so he thought that I ran into this woman and I thought you can't treat people like that and then I was going to bring her there and say you have to let her use the bathroom so that's what he was wary of it wasn't my building and she's like you're afraid of a woman You're a faggot, afraid of a woman.

[274] Afraid of a woman.

[275] It's like, not all women, but you're pretty scary.

[276] Certainly you.

[277] I think the best way to have gotten rid of this woman was to say, I don't have any money.

[278] Yeah.

[279] You're right.

[280] Because she kept saying, I need some dick.

[281] And it's like, no, that's not what you.

[282] I mean, really what you need.

[283] No, no. You need some money.

[284] And I didn't have any money on me. Plus, where we're?

[285] would we go?

[286] Yeah.

[287] Can I ask, is there a rural version of this walk you take?

[288] Yeah, yeah.

[289] When I'm in Sussex, I just got back from England and we were mainly in Sussex.

[290] And so I walk five miles a night there and every single night, I see a hedgehog.

[291] Oh, you do?

[292] Yeah, sometimes I would see four.

[293] Oh, my gosh.

[294] Have you ever seen a hedgehog?

[295] Never.

[296] No. No, they're super cute, though, right?

[297] Yeah, and when you come up on one, it just, it's only defense is prayer.

[298] And it says, Please don't kill me, please don't kill me, please don't kill me. And they just freeze there until you walk away.

[299] Oh.

[300] It was beautiful.

[301] Episode 290 with Adam Grant.

[302] So I think what really shifted my thinking about rethinking was a paper that my colleague Phil Tetlock wrote two decades ago where he said, look, so much of social science, so much of our study of decision -making and judgment, is assuming that people are kind of rational economists who are making efficient utility maximizing, maximizing decisions.

[303] And what we know is true is that we're much more social creatures than that.

[304] And that the way we think and the way we talk is heavily influenced by our stance relative to the people who matter to us.

[305] So Phil introduced these alternative metaphors for thinking about who we are if we're not homo -economics, you know, looking for rational utility.

[306] And he said, basically, we often end up thinking and talking like preachers, prosecutors, and politicians.

[307] And I was immediately hooked because this is right at the heart of what I do as an organizational psychologist, is to say, wow, you have never had any of those jobs, right?

[308] Monica, you've never been a preacher, Dax, you've never been a prosecutor.

[309] Neither of you has worked in politics.

[310] And yet, somehow you've internalized those professions, and they kind of take over your consciousness in ways that you can't even see.

[311] And so when we're in preacher mode, we are basically convinced we've already found the truth and we're trying to proselytize to other people about our sacred beliefs.

[312] When we're in prosecutor mode, it's more about the other person being wrong and saying, I've got to win my case and decimate your argument and is very much a both sides kind of thing, which we criticized earlier.

[313] And then politician mode, my first thought was preaching and prosecuting stops you from questioning yourself and thinking again about assumptions that you should let go of.

[314] Because if you're right and everyone else is wrong, your work is done.

[315] If you're in politician mode, you're a little more flexible because you're trying to campaign for the approval of an audience who you care about.

[316] And so you might adjust what you think in order to please that tribe.

[317] So you are showing some mental flexibility, but you're doing it at the wrong times for the wrong reasons.

[318] You're doing it to fit in or you're doing it to win votes or support.

[319] or, you know, you're lobbying as opposed to actually thinking.

[320] And so my hope is that we could all recognize the traps that we fall into and say, huh, I sound a lot like a preacher right now.

[321] Ooh, I just got stuck in a debate.

[322] Why am I prosecuting Monica?

[323] Why am I prosecuting Monica for having a political identity?

[324] What's that all about?

[325] Or, you know, as a politician, why am I so determined to have this group of people like me and have my back to the point that I'm saying things I don't even believe deep down?

[326] And I think recognizing those mindsets and recognizing that they can actually bias our thinking, to me, is a powerful step.

[327] I just want to personalize it for a second.

[328] So, Monica, what do you think your default is of those three?

[329] I know mine.

[330] Mine, well, I know what you think mine is.

[331] I don't think about that.

[332] Wait a minute.

[333] That even in itself is revealing.

[334] I'm almost more interested in what you think I think yours is than I. Well, I think you think mine is preacher.

[335] Oh.

[336] And I think mine is prosecuting.

[337] I sincerely didn't guess one for you.

[338] Okay.

[339] Because I'm not in your head as much as I like to think I am.

[340] Right.

[341] I don't really know.

[342] Mine is 99 .9 % prosecutor.

[343] I can't tell you how many hours in my life.

[344] I am literally in a courtroom.

[345] I'm going through the exhibits I'm going to present and then I'm going to wrap it up in my closing statements.

[346] I do it all day long.

[347] And then when I get into that courtroom with the person, it never fucking goes the way the court case.

[348] was supposed to go.

[349] I scripted the whole thing and it doesn't work.

[350] What are you, Adam?

[351] What do you think I am?

[352] Your default?

[353] I think you're politician.

[354] I think he's a preacher.

[355] You're both wrong.

[356] Oh, yeah.

[357] That's the best outcome.

[358] I would not want.

[359] And that's a clue about what my worst instincts are.

[360] Prosecutor all the way.

[361] Okay.

[362] So the three of us are prosecutors.

[363] Okay.

[364] This might be why we get along so well.

[365] Yeah.

[366] But you think we'd clash if that were.

[367] Well, you think we would?

[368] Well, we clash.

[369] Yeah.

[370] But I don't clashes it at.

[371] You just haven't spent enough time with me yet.

[372] Barry Meyer, episode 337.

[373] If you're a business person and you think somebody is screwing with you for one reason or another, you hire a bunch of private spies to gather up evidence, and you've got the lawyers and the information to, like, walk that stuff over to prosecutors.

[374] So the nature of the two tiers of justice don't affect who gets crapped out at the bottom.

[375] It's who gets fed in at the top.

[376] Yeah.

[377] And then the only time that ever happens in like some egalitarian way is that like internet sluice compile enough evidence against nexium.

[378] But the odds of them kind of fueling and funding a full investigation to put on the plate of someone is so rare for that to happen.

[379] You bring up nexium, and I wonder why.

[380] Because as I see it, that was an investigation that no one wanted to take on, and it was largely led by defectors and parents.

[381] And through their endless pursuit of media attention, finally got someone to act, right?

[382] So they had to make the whole thing happen.

[383] They had to go out and get the public will for it.

[384] They had to provide all the evidence.

[385] They had to record phone calls.

[386] And that was done without any funding.

[387] But I just would say that's probably the ratio is one to a million.

[388] of it happening in that fashion.

[389] Tell me why nexium interests you.

[390] Well, I broke the nexium story.

[391] Get the fuck out of here.

[392] Oh, I'm so embarrassed.

[393] Have you seen The Vow?

[394] I have seen the Vow.

[395] You have not seen how fucking awesome I am in the Vow?

[396] Oh, shit.

[397] Oh, man. Boy, I got egg on my face.

[398] I should have been like, I deserved an Emmy for what I do in the VAL.

[399] I'm rewatching it now.

[400] Now that I'm a fan.

[401] Yeah.

[402] Episode five.

[403] I'm going back then.

[404] I'm going back.

[405] Okay, yeah, great.

[406] Boy, that was, will we call that serendipitous?

[407] Yeah, I thought, oh, you're like trying to set me up to say something about the vow.

[408] And then I started thinking, maybe he doesn't know about me and the vow.

[409] It was the latter.

[410] Yeah, no, but I go into a big spiel about how Nexium was like being promoted as a self -help organization.

[411] That's how it was luring people in.

[412] So I'm being interviewed by the filmmakers, and I say to them something to the effect of, look, I get self -help, but I'm so fucking helpless.

[413] No self -help program could help me. And so I was totally immune to this shit.

[414] Well, I'll say another thing about you.

[415] Let me try to wow you with my brilliance.

[416] I think I figured out exactly what Reneery did, what his magic thing was.

[417] Because he did not go after rejects of society.

[418] He recruited and groomed very intelligent people.

[419] And I think his key breakthrough was they were intelligent people that also very much wanted validation for being intelligent.

[420] So when they asked him something, when they wanted him to be prophetic, they'd say, well, what is this?

[421] And he would go, well, what do you think it is?

[422] He never answered a fucking question.

[423] He'd asked, what do you think it is?

[424] And they would whip up a theory that they believed in that they thought he would believe in.

[425] And so he forced them to come up with all the answers that they were looking for because they wanted to impress him.

[426] And they would end and he would smile and he'd go, yes.

[427] And maybe he'd make an adjustment, but he never actually gave you scripture.

[428] He forced you to give yourself scripture.

[429] And I was like, this is brilliant.

[430] He's praying on people who want him to think they're intelligent.

[431] And you don't need Reneery's approval for being intelligent.

[432] That's why you're immune.

[433] I need approval all the time.

[434] but I got a pass right right I was concerned episode 352 Matt ding ding ding Damon I've been very lucky in that regard like I've been afforded kind of more privacy than most people get yeah and I look at people like him Ben to a certain degree but nobody to the extent that Brad I mean I've been in situate Lucy and I were in situation Brad in 2004 in Monaco where we had to show up for the Grand Prix and if George and Brad and I showed up for the Grand Prix, they were going to put Oceans 12 on the side of the Jaguar car.

[435] Oh, my God.

[436] And it was one of these Jerry Weintrapp things where apparently it costs like a billion dollars to put signage on these cars because so many people are watching.

[437] And Jerry calls him up and goes, oh, Jaguar, you're going to put Oceans 12 on the side of your car.

[438] And they're like, no, we're not.

[439] It's $50 million or whatever.

[440] And he goes, no, the guys are going to show up.

[441] because by the time I'm done with you every photographer in Europe is going to be in your garage and they're like we're not doing that and he goes then he goes then they're all going to be at Michael Schumachery Ferrari and you can go fuck yourself and they're like all right and they go but we've already sold the signage where do we put it he goes you got that spot where the jaguar is why don't you this big empty space put it there and they go but that's the it's an empty space with a jaguar in and he goes by the time I'm done with you everyone's going to know it's a jaguar so anyway they went for it and they gave us this real estate for free on the side of their car but we had to come in by boat and walk the track for like a quarter mile to get to this garage and I've never still to this day I mean every premiere Oscar anything I've ever been to I've never seen anything is crazy I mean it was it was like being in a tornado and it was all around Brad and I mean literally I think I've told the story before because Lucy and I got armbard like four times by security and we're like no no we're with Mr. but Brad was walking in the middle of this and it was the same summer that Troy came out and like it was like peak pit Brad and like when is it not Pete yeah and he's walking and I remember he had this little lika that he carried and he was holding it up and like taking pictures over his head of all the crazy people.

[442] And I looked at him and I was like, that dude's pulse is definitely below 50.

[443] Right.

[444] Like this is not, I was like, it's a dangerous situation.

[445] It's a dangerous situation.

[446] Lucy and I weren't married then.

[447] We were just boyfriend and girlfriend.

[448] But I like, we talked later.

[449] I was like, how fucked up was that?

[450] And I was like, did you see Brad?

[451] And she was like, yeah.

[452] And I'm like, this wasn't even top 10 for that guy.

[453] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[454] Right, right, right.

[455] This doesn't make his memory probably on the deathbed.

[456] He doesn't remember this.

[457] No. I can't put too fine a point on how much of, Monica's life has revolved around you and Ben.

[458] I mean, I know you have mega fans.

[459] I just, I know you have mega fans, but I don't think you can understand the place you occupied in Monica's life.

[460] That's awesome.

[461] But look, if it's a positive change, that's the best thing I can hear.

[462] Of course, yeah.

[463] It brought me out here.

[464] It changed my life, really.

[465] That's awesome.

[466] One of the cuter stories I've heard about you guys is that she would go camping when she was like 12 with her friend.

[467] And she'd be really convinced, that unfortunately probably like 15 15 yeah and she'd really convince herself they might be camping here I would think that when I was anywhere was like such a fantasy that like I might be in the movie theater maybe and then I'd like look back and maybe you guys were in the movie theater somehow this is this is extremely full circle for me to be sitting across from you having spent so much time in my life putting energy into coming across you.

[468] So thank you for being here.

[469] You're very, very, very welcome.

[470] But I can't, I'm just trying to imagine the scenario in which like you guys are camping out stretching oh in the morning out of our two -person tent.

[471] Who's cooking coffee on fire?

[472] In Helen, Georgia.

[473] In Helen, Georgia.

[474] Well, you know, anything's possible.

[475] Hey, do you guys have any more bacon?

[476] Hey, young gal.

[477] Hey, hey.

[478] Hey, you're cute.

[479] Amanda Pete, 366.

[480] I mean, I'm just saying he's crazy smart, crazy, well -read.

[481] Well -spoken, intimidatingly so.

[482] I also had a crush on him.

[483] On Matt Damon.

[484] Yeah, and he was with Lucy at the time, and I was single, and I was like, how do I know how much he's in with Lucy?

[485] Like, maybe I can get in there.

[486] That's how I still feel, and he has six kids.

[487] Does he have six kids?

[488] Five or six?

[489] Four or five?

[490] He's a lot.

[491] Also, he's madly in love with her.

[492] Yeah.

[493] It's just gross.

[494] It just makes me like him more and also want to jump off a cliff.

[495] Yeah.

[496] I had a little bit of an adolescent, like, crush on him where I was like, maybe.

[497] Like, who knows?

[498] And so usually when I go to work, as I'm sure you're the same way, like, I just wear my sweatpants and stuff and I don't put on makeup before the makeup.

[499] But this time I got all dressed up, like, and I wore an actual outfit.

[500] We were doing reshoots, and I hadn't seen him.

[501] And so this isn't a really good story.

[502] No, I love this story.

[503] It's already great.

[504] It's already great.

[505] The fact that you showed up for hair and makeup already in final touches.

[506] Correct.

[507] And in uncomfortable pants.

[508] So uncomfortable pants is not something I do.

[509] You can ask anyone.

[510] Like when I wear just corduroys or jeans, my kids are like, Why are you all dressed up?

[511] So I had this fantasy in my head that we were doing reshoots.

[512] We hadn't seen each other in several months.

[513] I was like, maybe they broke up.

[514] Maybe this is God's way.

[515] This is the universe, like putting us back together because he's called here on set and so am I. And who knows, who knows, who knows.

[516] Maybe, maybe.

[517] I walk into the set.

[518] I see him coming down the hallway and I'm like, here it is, here it is, here it is.

[519] and he walks and he just as he's walking by me just went what are you doing here?

[520] Oh my ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[521] Oh no. So bad but by the way we were husband and wife in the show.

[522] Right, right, right.

[523] Anyway, so my girlfriends and I have a really funny long standing joke now that we always say, what are you doing here?

[524] Was that for Siriana?

[525] Yeah.

[526] Yeah.

[527] I fucking love that movie.

[528] Yeah, that was a good movie.

[529] Stay tuned for more armchair expert, if you dare.

[530] We've all been there.

[531] Turning to the internet to self -diagnose our inexplicable pains, debilitating body aches, sudden fevers, and strange rashes.

[532] Though our minds tend to spiral to worst -case scenarios, it's usually nothing.

[533] but for an unlucky few, these unsuspecting symptoms can start the clock ticking on a terrifying medical mystery.

[534] Like the unexplainable death of a retired firefighter, whose body was found at home by his son, except it looked like he had been cremated, or the time when an entire town started jumping from buildings and seeing tigers on their ceilings.

[535] Hey listeners, it's Mr. Ballin here, and I'm here to tell you about my podcast.

[536] It's called Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries.

[537] Each terrifying true story will be sure to keep you up at night.

[538] Follow Mr. Ballin's Medical Mysteries wherever you get your podcasts.

[539] Prime members can listen early and add free on Amazon music.

[540] What's up guys?

[541] It's your girl Kiki and my podcast is back with a new season and let me tell you it's too good and I'm diving into the brains of entertainment's best and brightest.

[542] Every episode I bring on a friend and have a real conversation.

[543] And I don't mean just friends.

[544] I mean the likes of Amy Polar, Kel Mitchell, Vivica Fox, the list goes on.

[545] So follow, watch, and listen to Baby.

[546] This is Kiki Palmer on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast.

[547] Episode 382 with Paul Bloom.

[548] Does having children improve our lives?

[549] So you had a Danny Conneman on, and Connolland, who's great figure in the field, presented some early evidence that actually people, when they're with their kids, are pretty miserable.

[550] So you have these beepers go off.

[551] And then when a beeper goes off, now we use iPhones.

[552] You say, you have to answer two questions.

[553] What are you doing and how happy you are?

[554] It turns out when people are with friends or...

[555] Watching revenge porn.

[556] Watching revenge porn.

[557] They're pretty happy.

[558] But when people are with their young children, often, they're not so happy.

[559] It's kind of boring and stressful and so on.

[560] But the paradox is that if you ask people, and our test them in different ways, people say kids are to great joy of their life.

[561] They give their life's meaning to give their life's purpose.

[562] And so since commonplace and other studies and things always get more complicated.

[563] So in some countries, parents are happier than non -parents.

[564] And these tend to be countries which have a lot of resources for child care, a lot of time off, a lot of inexpensive daycare.

[565] Fathers tend to be happier of being parents than mothers, makes a lot of the labor goes to mothers.

[566] And I think most interesting to me, there's this difference, which is it's kind of a toss -up about whether kids give you pleasure or not.

[567] It's complicated.

[568] But kids pretty clearly give you a sense of purpose and meaning.

[569] And so when psychologists say, oh, parents aren't as happy as people who choose not to have kids, and these are both different life choices which go in different directions.

[570] But parents don't necessarily say, oh, you're full of it.

[571] What they say is, my kids don't make me give me pleasure in the way that a hot food Sunday does.

[572] The satisfaction they give is much deeper.

[573] And this is the sort of case you think about when you try to say, look, people are after more than one thing.

[574] Episode 325 with Prince Harry.

[575] Wait, can we talk about parenting real quick?

[576] Because you were parented in such a specific way, not just by your dad, but by the whole family.

[577] And it's so specific.

[578] And like you said, you were told, oh, you're just something's wrong with you.

[579] You're crazy.

[580] I wonder, are you trying to parent in the opposite direction?

[581] Yeah, what you'll see in the me you can't see that comes out on the 21st of May is very much a case of, I verbalize it, which is, isn't life about breaking the cycle?

[582] Yeah.

[583] There's no blame.

[584] Yeah.

[585] I don't think we should be pointing the finger or blaming anybody.

[586] But certainly when it comes to parenting, if I've experienced some form of pain or suffering because of the pain or suffering that perhaps my father or my parents had suffered, I'm going to make sure that I break that cycle so that I don't pass it on, basically.

[587] There's a lot of genetic pain and suffering that gets passed on anyway.

[588] Yeah.

[589] As parents, we should be doing the most to what we can to try and say, you know what, that happened to me?

[590] I'm going to make sure that doesn't happen to you.

[591] Yeah.

[592] It's hard to do because some of it's so just it's really hard to do, but for me it comes down to awareness.

[593] Like I never saw it, I never knew about it, and then suddenly I started to piece it all together and go, okay, so this is where he went to school, this is what happened.

[594] I know this bit about his life.

[595] I also know that's connected to his parents.

[596] Yeah.

[597] So that means that he's treating me the way that he was treated.

[598] Exactly.

[599] Which means How can I change that for my own kids?

[600] And, well, here I am.

[601] I've now moved my whole family to the US.

[602] Well, that wasn't the plan.

[603] Do you know what I mean?

[604] But sometimes you've got to make decisions and put your family first and put your mental health first.

[605] And when I'm talking about mental health, again, on that spectrum piece, like mental illness is at one end.

[606] Yeah.

[607] And then total joy and happiness is at the other.

[608] And no one's there, by the way.

[609] No one's really there.

[610] You know, certain days and certain weeks.

[611] Of course you can be there.

[612] Tom Hanks.

[613] No, he is ups and downs.

[614] But life is a roller coaster ride.

[615] Yes.

[616] And the way that I view it now, and it gives me such peace of mind, which is the bad stuff that happens, what can you learn from it?

[617] If the universe is basically saying to you, right, I'm going to school you.

[618] What can I take from each of those moments that's going to make me better prepared for the next time round?

[619] And if you go into life like that, certainly for me, it helps so much.

[620] Drew Barrymore, 370.

[621] I just am impressed that you're not, resentful.

[622] I understand feeling like, yes, my childhood was fun and I got all these great memories and I would never trade it in.

[623] But I'm surprised that you don't have resentment towards like the bouncer at the bar or just like every adult on earth around you who was like watching this happen and saying, okay.

[624] They were probably young then too and not parents themselves.

[625] They thought it was cute.

[626] It's cute.

[627] Oh, the little Hollywood girl.

[628] Like, ushered to the front of the line.

[629] Also, if it was me, like, my favorite compliment always when I'd be with my dad and those people didn't even know me, they'd be meeting me for the first time.

[630] And they'd always be like, oh, he's so adult.

[631] I loved that.

[632] At the time, but I'm saying now as an adult, like looking back at the time, seeing all these who are supposed to be protectors.

[633] I don't blame anybody.

[634] Is there any aspect of it?

[635] Like, I had sex really young.

[636] I had sex in 12 in seventh grade.

[637] And I don't regret it at all.

[638] I can look at it and go like, emotionally, I was not much.

[639] Sure enough, because after it was over, I was like, I didn't know what the fuck to do.

[640] I want to dematerialize.

[641] Like, what do I do now?

[642] I was not ready for intimacy or anything.

[643] So I can look back on it and go, well, objectively, I was way too young.

[644] But at the same time, I don't regret it at all.

[645] So I wonder, is there any part of it that you're like, mm?

[646] Nothing.

[647] Wow.

[648] I have no. Weirdly, my baggage isn't emotional baggage.

[649] It's baggage that makes me probably pretty staunch about some things as a parent.

[650] Like, these are my boundaries.

[651] By the way, I have been so fucking humbled as a parent when people say, well, you've got to set boundaries with kids.

[652] I might cry literally because it's so embarrassing where I'm like, I don't know what that is.

[653] Right.

[654] None have been set for you.

[655] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[656] And I'm so sorry.

[657] It's also very, very hard.

[658] People are like, this is the way it should be done.

[659] And I'm like, okay.

[660] I believe you, but I'm going to have to admit right now, being the parent, I'm going to have to get the fuck outside of my ego and let you know I don't know these answers and I'm going to ask you questions and I'm going to be really vulnerable and embarrassed because you're going to look at me like I don't know what I'm doing and I'm not experienced and maybe I'm even incapable but I got to ask what the fuck do you mean by a boundary about X, Y and Z. see, I didn't have them.

[661] Right, right.

[662] And I don't know what they are.

[663] So your expectation of me is something you're going to have to also enlighten me and empower me about, too.

[664] Yeah.

[665] But asking, it makes you, it makes you a good mom.

[666] Just being like, it does.

[667] That's the only thing that makes someone good is being like, I'm going to ask for help.

[668] You have that over me by a tenfold.

[669] I'm so bad at that and it's such a shitty character, flaw of mine.

[670] Episode 374.

[671] with B .J. Novak.

[672] I was at such a low point, at one point a few years ago, in this whole mess period.

[673] And my little brother, who's 12 years younger, Lev, and Lev looked up to me so much, he thought I was the best.

[674] He's such a hype man. He's such a happy puppy.

[675] And I couldn't talk to him anymore because I was so down on myself.

[676] And then I didn't return his calls.

[677] I just couldn't face it.

[678] And I just resented that he admired me and thought I was great.

[679] Because you knew the truth.

[680] Yeah, I knew the truth.

[681] And my mom.

[682] had to call me and say, hey, like, Leve is, is really hurt and confused.

[683] Yeah.

[684] You know, and it was because he loved me so much.

[685] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[686] And I couldn't, I couldn't.

[687] Accept it.

[688] Yeah, I couldn't accept.

[689] I couldn't talk to him.

[690] But I was just like, he's so fucking wrong.

[691] It's like, yeah.

[692] And so you can turn on people for loving you when you feel.

[693] So that is the most sort of colorful example I can think of, of a pattern.

[694] Jane Goodall, Episode 297.

[695] How were the male -female roles in chimpanzees similar to our own, and how are they different?

[696] And was that something that interested you?

[697] Well, I was interested in everything.

[698] What I loved was watching mother -child behavior, development of infants, relations with brothers and sisters.

[699] But the males are dominant.

[700] They have a dominance hierarchy.

[701] They dominate all females.

[702] And they're very promiscuous.

[703] which, of course, some people are too.

[704] So, you know, they are.

[705] They're not all monogamous.

[706] And so basically, when a female comes into eistress, when she's ready for mating, she may be mated by all the males, one after the other.

[707] The very sexually popular old female flow was mated 72 times in one day.

[708] Oh, my goodness.

[709] She was pretty exhausted at the end of it.

[710] Oh, jeez.

[711] Wow.

[712] She was followed by this string of males.

[713] And the adolescents who, you know, don't really get a go, they will hide behind a bush and shake a little branch.

[714] And sometimes the female will look at the alpha male and then creep off behind the bush.

[715] And is it there's even evidence?

[716] I remember reading a paper called lying in primates and how they'll also give a call like that there's perhaps a predator in the area so that all the alphas run towards it and then they get a shot at the female while the alphas are out?

[717] I think that sort of thing happens sometimes too.

[718] But mostly that happens when, for example, chimps hunt sometimes and hunting is a very exciting thing.

[719] So if the top male sometimes shows possessiveness and other males are not supposed to mate his female, that happens often.

[720] But if the alpha male gets distracted and he's looking up at the hunt, that's when the other males run in and get a go.

[721] And if the alpha male or the possessive male catches them, who do you think he attacks?

[722] Oh, I hate, I hate, yeah.

[723] The girl.

[724] The female.

[725] Yeah.

[726] That's pretty, um, that's kind of consistent with humans.

[727] Yeah, yeah.

[728] If he attacked the male, the female would run off and have more fun.

[729] Oh, well, huh?

[730] I didn't think of the strategic aspect.

[731] He would be creating another window of opportunity.

[732] So I have a quick question for you.

[733] Does it correlate perfectly with sexual dimorphism?

[734] Like, is the level of male dominance proportional to how much bigger males are than females in species?

[735] Well, certainly between chimps and bonobos, the male bonobo is more or less the same size as the female.

[736] and you don't get the same system of sexual relations.

[737] And bonobos as well, they have a much broader sexual experience than pan -trogliditis, right?

[738] They're doing more things.

[739] Well, the female bonobo is having this pink swelling all the time.

[740] So they solve a lot of disputes through sexual behavior.

[741] And females reassure each other by rubbing their sexual swellings together.

[742] So I was so glad Louis Leakey didn't send me to study them because the geographic would never have supported it because they couldn't in those days I've had all these pink bottoms in their pictures.

[743] Episode 299 with Amy Poehler.

[744] The worst that I would be accused of is just trying to show off my body.

[745] It wouldn't be a black spot on male progress.

[746] You're not taking men backed 15 years.

[747] No, I'm not a representative of anti -examination.

[748] anything.

[749] And every woman is a representative of women.

[750] Yeah.

[751] That's right.

[752] And every project has to be speaking on behalf of all women and every failure is a failure that all women feel.

[753] I'm always fighting for us to just enjoy mediocrity, like the mediocre middle, instead of everything having to be so loaded.

[754] And so I'm really trying to deliver that for you guys today.

[755] you've opened my eyes to like a couple of really interesting concepts that just really stuck with me and you probably heard me repeated on here three dozen times which is you are the first person that said to me you know i'll be doing a press line with will i'm right next to him i can hear what they're asking him we have the same two children we have the same fucking career and every goddamn question i'm getting is how do you juggle this i .e implication you're a shitty mom and no one's worried about how will's People get really into the question, where are your kids?

[756] I've been asked that so many times.

[757] Like, I've been asked a couple times during press where people be like, it's not even how are you doing it?

[758] It's so where are they?

[759] And I'm like, right now?

[760] And what they really wanted to say is where did you leave them?

[761] Yeah, who's taking care of them?

[762] Where did you leave them?

[763] Where did you deserve them?

[764] But I could talk about working my other stuff and I know you guys know it.

[765] you experience it with Kristen, like the amount of conversations that I have when I'm talking about work about my kids is interesting.

[766] And the questions asked.

[767] And also just like even during this pandemic, every mom is and dads and dad.

[768] Don't get me wrong.

[769] But moms are working from home.

[770] They're teaching their kids.

[771] It's just like, wow, we've found yet another way to make them feel bad.

[772] is like they're not teaching their kids well enough.

[773] So a lot of questions are like, how are you doing it?

[774] Where are they?

[775] How are they doing?

[776] And really, it's always like, how are you doing?

[777] How are you doing a bad job?

[778] Sometimes how you hear it at all.

[779] Yeah, so you did that one.

[780] And then there was another one.

[781] I don't know if you'll like this one.

[782] But I'm going to start by saying when I interviewed Common, I went and listened to his podcast and he had interviewed Tiffany Haddish, who he's with, which was its own funny thing because I had done that.

[783] went terribly.

[784] And I was delighted to hear it had gone shitty for him too.

[785] But it started by him saying, do you remember when we first met at this party?

[786] And he said to her, like, yo, can you believe your billboards up here and your things there and you're on this hit thing?

[787] And you've can you even believe this?

[788] And she said, I can.

[789] Can you?

[790] And I was like, oh, get it, girl.

[791] I remember hearing that from Polar while we were promoting baby mama.

[792] You're face was all over every taxi cab.

[793] There were billboards and you had some friends in and some of them just couldn't comprehend it and they kept asking you if you could comprehend it.

[794] And you're like, yeah, I've been working at this for fucking 20 years.

[795] Yes, this is the result of that.

[796] Episode 294 was Selma Hayek.

[797] The way I got it, it was kind of a miracle because Robert Rodriguez had done El Mariachi with $7 ,000 and he couldn't sleep one night and he's watching TV flipping through the channels and there is a rerun of an interview that a comedian did of me called Paul Rodriguez and it was a rerun at like at one in the morning or something where he's interviewing and he's making fun of me because I was a big soap star in Mexico in Teresa.

[798] I was very famous in Teresa and that 60 % of the entire country was watching these soap.

[799] And then I left.

[800] And you had been in a really acclaimed movie, too, in Mexico that had won new nominations and stuff.

[801] Not yet?

[802] Not quite.

[803] Not yet.

[804] Okay.

[805] Sorry.

[806] Sorry.

[807] But thank you for memorizing my body.

[808] Of course.

[809] I'm impressed.

[810] Yeah.

[811] But I left, went to the States, tried to learn English.

[812] I'm still trying.

[813] And went to school with Stella Adler.

[814] That's how old I am.

[815] Yeah.

[816] But my God, she was in her 90s.

[817] Let's accept that.

[818] and start it again as an extra.

[819] Wow.

[820] That is very humbling and takes such bravery.

[821] I think I would have maybe just stayed in Mexico as a star.

[822] Of course.

[823] It made absolute no sense.

[824] And I was the livestock of my country because I was playing extra roles, the prostitute or maid or the wife of a drug dealer, too little scenes.

[825] So everybody was laughing at me. the press, the people, you know.

[826] Yeah.

[827] I guess who's laughing now.

[828] Exactly.

[829] He says, why would you do that?

[830] Are you crazy?

[831] Somebody said that I was the lover of the president and had a fight and had to flee the country and I couldn't get a job.

[832] I mean, all kinds of stories.

[833] Ooh, those are, that's, wow.

[834] All kinds of juicy stories.

[835] Yeah.

[836] I explained to him, I don't want to do telenovelas.

[837] There is no film industry in Mexico.

[838] I want to do films.

[839] I've come here to do that.

[840] He said, but they're not going to hire you.

[841] You know that.

[842] And I said, no, I don't.

[843] Right.

[844] And he said, but it just doesn't happen.

[845] They don't write their roles.

[846] There is no place.

[847] It just doesn't happen.

[848] And I said, well, then I'll have to make it happen.

[849] Yeah.

[850] And by God, you did.

[851] And one of the things that I used to say and gave me strength, it was just simple mathematics.

[852] If we're 40 million here, somebody of the thousands of producers and executives, So we're talking about 30 years ago.

[853] And I was saying eventually somebody has to be smart.

[854] Yeah.

[855] There is a whole huge audience that, by the way, I had.

[856] Yeah.

[857] But unfortunately, they were not that smart for a long time.

[858] Well, in the businesses evolved.

[859] So now the total receipts of any movie is going to be far more global than it is domestic.

[860] But back then, when you were trying this, it was pretty lopsided.

[861] It was still like 70 plus percent.

[862] domestic and only 20 % There were 40 million domestic Latinos in the United States that had watched my soap Oh, okay, okay, I'm out to lunch.

[863] No, they were in the United States, they were 40 million Latinos.

[864] Oh my God, I'm still one of those dumb executives.

[865] And they still didn't think that maybe there was an industry there that there was no money to make.

[866] I knew they were racist, but I'll tell you something about racism.

[867] It gets erased with one color, green, dollars.

[868] Well, yes, yes, yes.

[869] Especially in the industry.

[870] And anyway, Robert Rodriguez saw the interview, and he found me. Dorothy Brown, episode 318.

[871] Okay, so let's say we have again, black worker, white worker.

[872] They're in cubicles next to each other.

[873] And let's suspend disbelief and assume they each make $100 ,000.

[874] Uh -huh.

[875] And I say suspend disbelief because research says the labor market is going to pay the white guy more, even though they're equally qualified.

[876] But we're going to suspend disbelief for the sake of the example.

[877] So the white guy who has a $100 ,000 salary has his parents pay for his kids K through 12.

[878] When grandma died, he inherited the house.

[879] The black guy, on the other hand, is sending cash home to his parents, maybe a grandparent, maybe a sibling, because they're about to be evicted or the light is about to get turned off.

[880] So research shows Black college graduates are more likely to send money up to their parents and grandparents.

[881] White college graduates are more likely to get money from their parents or grandparents for down payment for homes, paying for K through 12.

[882] In other words, wealth building.

[883] Yeah.

[884] So imagine they both have this $100 ,000 salary, which one of them is going to be most likely to max out on their retirement account with their employer office.

[885] Right.

[886] Yeah.

[887] The white guy with $100 ,000 who's not sending money home to mom and dad or grandparents, right?

[888] Also, all those things you just listed, basically estate tax stuff, there's a $23 million deduction.

[889] So they're also receiving all of that tax -free.

[890] Oh, it's even worse.

[891] It's tax -free under the income tax system, too.

[892] Right.

[893] So it's never tax.

[894] Right.

[895] Whereas the black college graduate who send money to their parents, they can't max out on their retirement account.

[896] If they're lucky, they'll be able to participate somewhat, but they're also more likely to make an early withdrawal because they need the money.

[897] Yeah.

[898] And there's a heavy tax penalty on early withdrawals.

[899] Episode 298 with Chad Sanders.

[900] I've had people have every level.

[901] I hate to keep using her, but she already talked about it on here publicly, so I don't feel too bad bringing it up.

[902] But it's like, for joy, she ended up going from the Bronx to this really fancy private school in Connecticut.

[903] So she'd be there half the year.

[904] And she's, of course, kind of code switching into that.

[905] But then when she's coming back to the Bronx, now she's not black enough.

[906] So I'm like, this poor girl didn't have a country.

[907] It was like she wasn't white enough there.

[908] She's not black enough here.

[909] And I guess that's what I'm saying, the complexity of it, is you can feel it on both ends, right?

[910] Yeah, it becomes very isolating because when you do that switchover, for me it was I would be in class.

[911] I'd be in like the gifted and talented class with all the other white kids whose parents were in my parents' tax bracket.

[912] And then I would go out into the hallway and I would kick it with, you know, my friends who looked like me. And I would try to quote unquote code switch back to the way that they talked.

[913] and I felt, even as I was doing it as a high schooler, I felt shameful.

[914] I felt like I was being disrespectful to them, which made me feel like I was disrespecting myself.

[915] And then, I mean, this is how you become a writer, right?

[916] Because then you're just like, like, I'm in my head now.

[917] I'm just going to like watch it and not participate.

[918] Well, what you get great at is right, you are really committing to memory all of the character types because you're going to be playing them.

[919] I remember hearing my grandpa has passed, but I remember when I was in China, and my whole life, I really hadn't spoken to him at length.

[920] Like, he just was kind of a grunter, one of those grandpas.

[921] It's like, you don't know, was that a no or yes, I don't know.

[922] Was he a heavy smoker?

[923] He was.

[924] He was.

[925] He was a pipe smoker, yeah.

[926] Good, good, good.

[927] And he, like, wrote me this email in Chinese when I was learning.

[928] I wrote him this, like, kind of just really stupid, just like, hi, grandpa.

[929] I bought bananas at the market.

[930] Yeah.

[931] Yeah, I'm at the library.

[932] Right.

[933] That's a biblioteca.

[934] I just say biblioteca.

[935] And he's like, okay.

[936] But he wrote me this like really long email and I didn't understand some of the words and I translated it and it was like so eloquent.

[937] There was such thought and like poise and elegance and like beautiful use of the language, right?

[938] I was like, God, I didn't even know this man was capable of thinking like this because my whole life, it's been nothing but, oh okay you know that's it and so i was really struck by that that would almost make me really really sad that my grandpa went to a place where his elegance and word smithery and all this that he had was invisible yeah and that's exactly what my grandpa went through he was a scholar in china when he came here he kind of had to work in his dad's restaurant and i remember he got a taxi medallion in the 60s and he'd get beat up all the time and he'd just wait and my grandma would catch him just reading at JFK in the taxi line.

[939] He would never take people because he just didn't want to do it.

[940] I mean, it's super, it's sad.

[941] But it's also a story that is not rare within the immigrants that came over at that time.

[942] It was really hard.

[943] Episode 362 with Carmelo Anthony.

[944] Let me just say A, what an incredible story.

[945] I'm so glad you're telling it because people want to talk to you about basketball.

[946] You're perfect for this show because I don't ever want to talk to anybody about the thing they do.

[947] Good, because I don't like talking about basketball anyway.

[948] That's so fucking boring, yeah.

[949] We already know you're great at basketball.

[950] Yeah, you're great at basketball.

[951] Cool.

[952] But one thing you point out in the book, which I just, it put it in perspective, there are 541 ,000 high school basketball players.

[953] Yes.

[954] 541 ,000.

[955] Then there's 30 ,000 kids in college playing.

[956] Then you got the whole world.

[957] Fucked that.

[958] We won't even try to put a number on that.

[959] And there's 453 players in the league.

[960] Wow.

[961] And 60 players get drafted every year.

[962] Out of 513 ,000?

[963] And the cool thing he points out is you would think that's the miracle of his life.

[964] Yeah.

[965] And it's not.

[966] No. The miracles that he made it through that childhood.

[967] That's the one in 10 million.

[968] That's profound.

[969] Yeah, I like that a lot.

[970] Episode 342 with Barack Hussein Obama.

[971] We got to bring.

[972] us up.

[973] We have to.

[974] So if you're anything like me, I don't want to be recognized for any of the things I'm good at.

[975] I actually just want to be recognized for these things I wish I was great at.

[976] So knowing you love basketball was the greatest moment of your whole life on the campaign trail with Biden.

[977] President Biden's.

[978] And you picked up the ball and just drained a three, just so casually.

[979] And then it made the rounds on all the outlets.

[980] Was that your greatest moment?

[981] Well, you know, Well, at the risk of not sounding artificially humble, I mean, the truth is that I had hit some shots like that before.

[982] Okay, okay.

[983] So the first time I campaigned, I took my first foreign trip, and we went to Afghanistan and Iraq, and before going into Iraq, we staged at Kuwait, and I walked into a gym with like 3 ,000 troops in shirt sleeves, and one of the soldiers tossed me a basketball and said, let's see your jumper.

[984] Uh -huh.

[985] And CNN was recording it.

[986] And there was nothing but net, brother.

[987] Oh, baby.

[988] Oh, baby.

[989] So you've been down this road before.

[990] This was not a unique moment.

[991] I hit the big shots.

[992] That's what I do.

[993] Like Jordan and North Carolina.

[994] Like Jordan and North Carolina.

[995] Yeah, we got in a big fight.

[996] We got in a fight.

[997] I was critical of you.

[998] I was like, you can't look that cool while you're trying to help your buddy, Biden.

[999] And then Biden was, he just had to go like, great shot.

[1000] And I was like, and I said, that's fine.

[1001] He liked it.

[1002] You guys are best friends.

[1003] Joe and I are buddies.

[1004] Stay tuned for more armchair expert.

[1005] If you dare.

[1006] Episode 3 .43 with Quentin Tarantino.

[1007] So what made you get into movies?

[1008] I mean, I know that's like the most generic question ever, but I know you're like a movie connoisseur as a viewer.

[1009] So were you just young?

[1010] Well, my question would be like on that question, what emotional thing was it doing for you?

[1011] Were you lonely?

[1012] Was it an escape?

[1013] Well, I guess I was a little lonely, not in a pathetic way, but in an only child kind of way.

[1014] I didn't have anybody else in the house.

[1015] And also, my parents were working a lot.

[1016] So I was kind of left by myself or with babysitters for a long period of time.

[1017] But the thing about it, I really loved it and it became a movie expert.

[1018] And that became how I defined myself.

[1019] But at the beginning, it was just like the way any kid is attracted to baseball.

[1020] You're attracted to sports.

[1021] Boys like cars.

[1022] I like movies.

[1023] Yeah.

[1024] That was my thing.

[1025] Somebody else, it would be football.

[1026] Somebody else would be, they're drawing pictures of cars all the time.

[1027] And they take buy car maps.

[1028] magazines and put car stuff on their walls.

[1029] You know, I was about movies.

[1030] I remember, like, my mom was dating a football player, and he goes, so about your son, does he like football?

[1031] He likes movies.

[1032] He likes movies about football.

[1033] Yeah, if you want to, he likes football movies.

[1034] Episode 356 with Maya Shanker.

[1035] I have this theory, and I can't anchor it in anything, which is, because I'm not someone who believes in metaphysical stuff, and I don't believe in God.

[1036] And I don't think.

[1037] things happen for a reason.

[1038] Yeah, me either.

[1039] Yet, when I've had an identity anchored in certain things, lo and behold, those things happen regularly and confirm my identity.

[1040] My one case I'll just give as a quick example is I thought if you listed the top three things you liked about me, in that top three list would always be, I feel protected around him.

[1041] And my wife told me at one point, I don't feel more protected that you're that way.

[1042] I feel more in danger.

[1043] When you're around, anything might happen.

[1044] And I was like, holy shit, that's opposite of what I thought it was.

[1045] And I got to change that.

[1046] Yeah.

[1047] When I stopped thinking that that was a top three reason people like me, I stopped seeing all the stuff.

[1048] And my wife could tell you this.

[1049] Once a month, we saw a dude from the gym yelling at an old lady at a traffic light in the car and banging on her window.

[1050] Like, I saw this stuff all the time, and I had to get involved all the time.

[1051] And I no longer think of myself as I went.

[1052] I don't know.

[1053] The world hasn't changed.

[1054] It couldn't possibly have changed.

[1055] I don't see any of that anymore.

[1056] It's not around me anymore.

[1057] That's very suspicious to me. I don't understand it.

[1058] But I couldn't help but think.

[1059] this guy, Scott, with that great obsession he had with not getting cancer, is there something in the world that can explain how we can manifest our fears?

[1060] I'm allergic to the word manifestation.

[1061] You are.

[1062] Okay, great.

[1063] As a scientist, I just, I can't subscribe to that for a few reasons.

[1064] One is, I just don't understand what the mechanical properties of that would be.

[1065] But more importantly, just look at the world at how much suffering befalls really great people.

[1066] And it will make you question whether this manifesting thing, sorry, I probably alienated like I just have to share my opinion, which is I don't believe in manifesting.

[1067] I don't think we can will things in any cosmic sense.

[1068] I don't think the universe cares about me, Maya.

[1069] Okay, I don't think the universe has a plan.

[1070] I don't think I can talk to the universe.

[1071] None of that.

[1072] However, there are two traits that are very characteristic of humans that I think propel us forward in these moments of adversity.

[1073] The first is we are natural born storytellers and narrative writers, right?

[1074] When an experience happens to us, like Scott getting the stage four bone cancer diagnosis in his 30s and leads him to have to amputate his leg and get 18 administrations of chemotherapy, when it doesn't track with his experience to date or his sense of self -identity, I think it is a very natural human instinct to try to justify that experience by making it make sense.

[1075] And he said this very matter of fact, but also very poignant thing to me. He said, Maya, it would be a tragedy if my body was deteriorating and I was also becoming a worse person, like if my personality was also getting worse.

[1076] So I need to make this work for myself.

[1077] I need to become a better person through this.

[1078] So I think one thing that can help those of us, like look, I wish I thought things happened for a reason and I wish I believed in manifesting because I think I'd probably be a happier person because I would believe that I'd more agency and control in my life than I do.

[1079] But I always find some solace in the fact that I know, even with the particular way in which my mind is wired, it is still very susceptible to this insatiable desire to build a narrative out of my life and to try and find meaning or silver linings in experiences in order to justify them, to not feel like we are living in a world that is as random as it actually is.

[1080] Yeah, so I agree with you.

[1081] So I think most of our actions in life are attempts to confirm our identity.

[1082] So we're telling people where this, and by God we've got to kind of demonstrate that we are that.

[1083] So I agree with that.

[1084] I would draw a distinction between manifesting and cosmic in that.

[1085] You're subconscious, which I don't think we understand all that well yet.

[1086] I don't think we're there.

[1087] Your subconscious is given an example.

[1088] You're driving down the road in the car.

[1089] You're doing everything one needs to do to operate the car, but you're not aware of it.

[1090] So you're making tiny little micro adjustments to the steering wheel.

[1091] You're adjusting the gas.

[1092] All that stuff's happening in the background.

[1093] It's running in the background.

[1094] I think it is possible that this mechanism that runs in the background, our subconscious, can do a bunch of stuff that we don't know about yet.

[1095] And in that way, the subconscious can manifest all these weird things.

[1096] It can take steps that we're not even aware that we're taking to confirm our identity.

[1097] But why are you using the word manifest?

[1098] That's my question in that situation.

[1099] Like, sure, our subconscious thoughts can precede our conscious thoughts.

[1100] Like there's a processing that happens in the mind and one transitions from brain already knows I'm going to lift my left hand up before my conscious brain has registered that.

[1101] But why do we use the supernatural word manifesting?

[1102] Oh, so maybe we have a different definition of manifest.

[1103] I'm talking about manifesting in the way that, like, the Bachelor might use the word manifesting, the TV show.

[1104] Okay, be careful.

[1105] Be careful now.

[1106] You're on very shaking ground.

[1107] I love the Bachelor.

[1108] I'm sure you do.

[1109] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1110] I interviewed with Nick Viol this morning for Vial files, okay?

[1111] Please do not think in any way that I am not a super fan of The Bachelor.

[1112] We will talk about the season and Katie and Greg and all the people.

[1113] Yeah, I'm behind, too.

[1114] I'm behind too.

[1115] Okay, sorry.

[1116] Good.

[1117] I just didn't want you to piss Monica off inadvertently.

[1118] If you were going to be critical of The Bachelor, I just wanted to warn you.

[1119] I have watched almost every season.

[1120] It is my go -to.

[1121] And I recently got my husband into it.

[1122] It's wonderful.

[1123] Okay, so we have a bonding situation going on.

[1124] I'm talking about in that sense of like, well, I just hear it all the time.

[1125] These are this word manifesting, which is like, if I put it in my journal, if I write it, it will happen.

[1126] Can I give you an example of manifesting?

[1127] So Eric has a great, great fear of losing his money.

[1128] Okay.

[1129] And because he has this great fear of losing his money, he tries to diversify the money and all these different abstract.

[1130] ways.

[1131] One of them being like, oh, I'll have some gold.

[1132] I'll have gold somewhere and that'll protect me from when everything else collapsed, right?

[1133] So it's this big, big preoccupation that he's going to lose it, he's going to lose it, he's going to lose it, he's diversifying.

[1134] So in the process of buying gold, buying all these things, he's kind of opened himself up to juggling too many balls.

[1135] Well, lo and behold, he kind of keeps losing money.

[1136] He's losing money because he has all these weird ways of holding it.

[1137] And one time a bar of gold was stolen out of his car because of a 15 -minute overlap of when he was bringing home above line.

[1138] He's telling me the story.

[1139] And I said, do you realize what's happening is you're manifesting your fears?

[1140] You're so fearful of this that you're now launched into all these different directions that are going to result in you losing money, which is you're going to confirm that you're, you were right to be fearful.

[1141] Like, I think someone's subconscious has the ability to orchestrate all that without much of us being aware of it in the present.

[1142] I understand.

[1143] If there's like a causal mechanism by which you articulate intentions and then those intentions express themselves.

[1144] But it doesn't involve any of the cosmic stuff that I can't get behind.

[1145] Then absolutely in the same way that like if I get out my journal and I write, my goal is to be on blah show, right?

[1146] You might work harder.

[1147] You might have a plan for the first time.

[1148] Of course I believe in the translation of like intention to action or like goal setting and goal achievement.

[1149] But those are those are in the conscious mind.

[1150] All the examples you just listed.

[1151] I guess I'm making an argument for that perhaps.

[1152] the subconscious mind is capable of many, many things we don't yet understand.

[1153] If you just look at what they're learning about when we talk in person now, the levels of oxytocin that change, all these different biochemical reactions we have to each other in person, that feels metaphysical 35 years ago.

[1154] But 30 years ago, it would have been described as energy, but now we understand mere neurons and we understand that...

[1155] Yeah, is my subconscious brain responding to the fact that I find you to both be very warm people?

[1156] and in turn, I feel like I can open myself up and I can also be warm 100%.

[1157] I guess maybe it really just comes down to how we're defining manifesting.

[1158] Yeah, I don't think there's a supernatural...

[1159] Yes, okay, great, great.

[1160] Then we're on the same page.

[1161] I think that important delineation maybe between various ways in which manifesting is described is I believe the subconscious mind obviously can inform the conscious brain and psychology in profound ways.

[1162] I just have never felt that our own thoughts can will physical things to happen in the world, that there's any connection, unless we literally, like, lifted the object.

[1163] It's like a rolled -dall Matilda thing.

[1164] Like, I don't think she can use her eyes to get the chalk on the chalkboard, that sort of thing.

[1165] That's where I'm like, okay.

[1166] Yeah, yeah, you're out.

[1167] And maybe this is my dad being a theoretical physicist.

[1168] And so I grew up with physics in the home and we obey the laws of physics, folks.

[1169] I do think this has something to do with, again, why everybody's so variable, because it's your experience with your dad that makes you feel like that.

[1170] I logically, logically don't believe in manifestation, but the picture we just, the picture we just showed you of me hugging Matt Damon.

[1171] There is no, there is no explanation.

[1172] No, there is an explanation.

[1173] You worked really freaking hard.

[1174] You made an extremely successful podcast, successful enough that someone like Matt Damon wants your audience to listen to him.

[1175] That's why it happened.

[1176] But see, again, you're doing this thing.

[1177] No, there's a causal connection between that you are, maybe articulated it in your head back in the day, Matt Damon, and then you built an empire.

[1178] That's why it happened, Monica.

[1179] That would be my assessment of why it happened.

[1180] But what about like even weirder things?

[1181] Like, you know, I would watch Kristen.

[1182] I was like, oh my God, Kristen Bell so long ago.

[1183] Oh my God, Kristen Bell.

[1184] She is so fun.

[1185] Like, I think I could be friends with her.

[1186] Like everyone in the whole world thinks when they watch Kristen on YouTube.

[1187] And while I'm doing that, you think that's where most people are consuming Kristen YouTube?

[1188] That's where I do.

[1189] Okay.

[1190] So when I'm doing that, little do I know.

[1191] She is living in an apartment here in L .A. 10 years later, I am living in that apartment without knowing.

[1192] And then I meet her via friends.

[1193] And then we become best friends.

[1194] And I'll think.

[1195] Yeah.

[1196] So let me unpack that one.

[1197] Okay.

[1198] So you need to consider the denominator of all thoughts, not just the numerator.

[1199] So you are cherry picking examples of cases where you had this immense crush on this person, Kristen Bell, and then, oh, my God, I ended up as her babysitter and then I built this empire.

[1200] How many moments of crushes have you had?

[1201] What is the denominator of experience?

[1202] How many times have you watched YouTube and been infatuated with a star and nothing ever happened with that star?

[1203] That star doesn't know who you are.

[1204] You don't know who that star is.

[1205] The second thing I want to say is from whose vantage point is this manifesting happening?

[1206] Because like you said, millions of people are watching Kristen Bell having exactly the same, response and they're not sitting in an attic with Dax Shepard right now.

[1207] Right?

[1208] So my question is why do you have fate and they don't?

[1209] Absolutely.

[1210] It's like we like to believe we're the protagonist in the film.

[1211] We manifested it.

[1212] It happened to us for a reason.

[1213] It's like from whose vantage point?

[1214] So I want you to every time you have that instinct, just challenge yourself and be like, how many other Kristen Bell experiences that I had that didn't lead to anything?

[1215] And then how many other people had the Kristen Bell experience but are still sitting in their living rooms?

[1216] And then it might make you think slightly different differently about that.

[1217] Michael Pollan, episode 344.

[1218] The late 90s was the height of the drug war.

[1219] And I at the time was writing columns for the New York Times Magazine and Harper's Magazine about what was happening in my garden.

[1220] Because I was using my garden as a laboratory to explore our relationship to nature.

[1221] And I'd written a series of essays.

[1222] And this editor came along, this friend of mine, his name is Paul Tuff.

[1223] And he had gotten this underground press book called Opium for the Masses, playing on Karl Marx's line about religion was the opiate of the masses.

[1224] And it was like, yeah, you can grow your own opium.

[1225] And now remember, this is pre -opioid crisis, okay?

[1226] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1227] It's a different moment historically.

[1228] So I started growing it.

[1229] And the author of this book, a really brilliant young writer named Jim Hogshire, gave you instructions, where to find the seeds, totally legal to grow, and how to turn it into a monster.

[1230] mild narcotic, poppy tea.

[1231] I said, oh, this would be cool column.

[1232] I'll see if I can grow opium.

[1233] And I got the seeds, and I started corresponding with him because I thought I was going to write about it, asking him horticultural advice, did he have any seeds we could swap?

[1234] And then suddenly I hear that he's been arrested by the Seattle police.

[1235] They have stormed his apartment.

[1236] They brought like 20 members' SWAT team, threw him up against the wall, and arrested him on the charge of manufacturing narcotics.

[1237] And the evidence they had was a box of dried poppy heads he'd gotten from a florist shop you can get them at any florist shop and a copy of his book which proved his intent to turn those innocent poppy heads into a drug oh wow now my email is on his computer at this point and i realize that oh shit you're co -conspirator now co -conspirator because the rule with poppies are if you don't know that they are a scheduled substance it's okay to grow them as soon as you know that that is narcotic.

[1238] This seems very enforceable.

[1239] Yeah, I know.

[1240] But it is because they can prove what's in your head by the fact that I had a copy of this guy's book.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] And now that I've told your listeners, sorry.

[1243] All bets are up.

[1244] Guilty is charged.

[1245] Yeah.

[1246] So anyways, it became this summer of paranoia and fear as I tried to figure out while my poppies are growing if, indeed, I had broken the law and was at any risk.

[1247] And I started doing this investigation and talking to the DEA and local sheriff's departments.

[1248] And it turned out the government had this quiet crackdown going on.

[1249] They were very afraid that this would be a fad and people were going to start growing a lot of opium because it's really easy to grow all over America.

[1250] Also, it's right at the height of the microbrewery movement.

[1251] And people are making beer in their basement.

[1252] I'm not kidding.

[1253] I could see where they thought this would be a thing.

[1254] DIY drugs.

[1255] And so they threw the book at Hogshire.

[1256] Eventually he got off.

[1257] A judge thought these charges were ridiculous.

[1258] And they were going around in nurseries and garden centers and telling them not to carry poppy seeds anymore.

[1259] And there were a couple other busts.

[1260] And I got more and more frightened.

[1261] And ultimately, I harvested my poppies.

[1262] I had a couple of nightmares that summer of being arrested.

[1263] And we were living in rural Connecticut at the time.

[1264] Anyway, I finished the article.

[1265] It's a long piece.

[1266] It's a parable of the drug war, I'd talk about the penalties because if you get busted, and this is still true, not only can they throw you in jail and the charges for manufacturing narcotic are five to 20 years, they can also seize your property.

[1267] Because if the property is being used in the commission of a crime, the acid forfeiture laws kick in.

[1268] So it could have completely wrecked our life.

[1269] And I had a four -year -old kid and I was a freelance writer at the time.

[1270] So I handed into Harper's who had commissioned it, Harper's Magazine.

[1271] I said, look, we need to lawyer this.

[1272] So they hired a criminal defense lawyer to come up to read it.

[1273] And this guy drives up to my house in Cornwall with his young associate, sits us down in the living room and tells us that you can't publish this article.

[1274] It's a confession to a violation of Schedule I laws.

[1275] You're manufacturing narcotics.

[1276] You've admitted to it right in this article.

[1277] And I'm like, oh, shit.

[1278] This payday, it was like a year's work.

[1279] And I was a freelance.

[1280] answer.

[1281] I needed this check.

[1282] Anyway, when the publisher of Harper's heard this, his name is Rick MacArthur, and he's a fierce defender of the First Amendment.

[1283] And when he heard this, his first reaction was, because I had decided not to publish, he said, we need a new lawyer.

[1284] So he hires a different kind of lawyer, instead of criminal defense, a first amendment lawyer, a very prominent one in New York, who reads the article and says, you must publish this article for the good of the Republic.

[1285] This is what the First Amendment was created for to defend comments on government policies.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] So I don't know what to do.

[1288] Oh my gosh.

[1289] I then asked Victor, the lawyer, Victor Covner, is there any way I can protect myself?

[1290] And he says, well, there are two sections of that article are going to be most antagonistic to the government.

[1291] One is the recipe, like how you turn poppy heads, seed heads into a drug.

[1292] And the other is the trip report where I describe what it feels like.

[1293] He said, if you take that out, you're much less likely to antagonize the gardener.

[1294] So I self -censored.

[1295] I feel really bad about it, but I censored myself.

[1296] And then the other thing that made me confident enough to publish it then was that Rick MacArthur gave me the most incredible contractor writer has ever received from a publisher, guaranteeing not only to defend me as long as it took, but to pay me a salary while I was going through that process, to pay my wife a salary if I had to go to jail.

[1297] to replace my home should it be seized by the government.

[1298] Good for him.

[1299] Oh, I love him.

[1300] What a champion.

[1301] He really is.

[1302] And he really put his money where his mouth is.

[1303] So with those assurances, I published it.

[1304] But I always felt bad about the missing sections.

[1305] And I always wanted to publish them.

[1306] So I recently found them and restored them to the piece.

[1307] And the other thing, though, that made me want to publish it now after all these years, is that I subsequently learned that that summer of 1996, when I was having that fear and loathing around growing of poppies in my garden, Purdue Pharma was introducing oxycotton and beginning the real opiate crisis, which wasn't about growing poppies.

[1308] And now, you know, 500 ,000 people have died since then.

[1309] And the government was looking the wrong way.

[1310] They were looking at a bunch of gardeners goofing around with poppy tea while this legal effort to hook Americans on opiates was getting underway.

[1311] Daniel Connaman on episode 327.

[1312] I'm having a very hard time putting it in a linear line, but I'm going to attempt to.

[1313] Okay.

[1314] And what I'd like to start with is just what an incredibly unique personal history you've had.

[1315] I'm always most interested, not necessarily in what people study, but maybe more why they study it, why they were interested in it.

[1316] And just quickly, you were born in Tel Aviv in 1934 or something?

[1317] Yes.

[1318] But you grew up in Paris, and this is mind -blowing to me, that you grew up during Nazi occupation in Paris, as a Jewish family.

[1319] And you had this very, very profound experience that, at least according to your life, lore got you interested in psychology.

[1320] And I was just wondering if you could tell Monica about that.

[1321] Well, I had an experience.

[1322] I don't think it turned me into psychology, but it certainly exemplified something that I was interested in as a trial.

[1323] I was interested in the complexity of human nature.

[1324] And the example that I'm sure you want me to talk about is that when I was seven years old, living in Paris under German occupation as a Jew.

[1325] And the Jews had to wear a star of David on their clothes to be visible and identified.

[1326] And there was a strict curfew.

[1327] And as a seven -year -old, I played at a friend, and I missed the curfew.

[1328] I was too late.

[1329] And so I turned my sweater inside out, and I went home.

[1330] And in a place that I remember actually distinctly a few years ago, I went and visited just to make sure that my mom.

[1331] memories were right than they were.

[1332] I saw a German soldier.

[1333] The street was deserted and I saw a German soldier.

[1334] We were walking toward each other.

[1335] And he was wearing a black uniform.

[1336] And the black uniform were the uniform of the SS.

[1337] And they were the worst of the worst.

[1338] If you were a Jew, you knew that.

[1339] So we walked towards each other and then he calls me, he sort of beckons me and picks me up.

[1340] And of course, I'm afraid that he'll see inside my sweater that I'm wearing the yellow star, but he doesn't.

[1341] And he hugs me really tight.

[1342] And then he puts me down, and he opens his wallet, and there's a picture of a little boy, and then he gave me some money, and then we each went their own way.

[1343] And it's a story that I happen to tell.

[1344] I had to write an autobiography for the Nobel.

[1345] Everybody who gets a Nobel has to write.

[1346] an autobiography.

[1347] And I wrote that incident as an example of early exposure to the complexities of human nature.

[1348] And for some reason, lots of people are very curious about that episode.

[1349] But it's a true incident.

[1350] It happened.

[1351] I don't think it's changed my life much, but it's a true story.

[1352] It is an indication of how complicated human nature is.

[1353] Because this guy, you know, he could have killed me, but he also hugged me, and he had a boy, and I reminded him of his boy.

[1354] Leon Bridges, episode 350.

[1355] It's so fun for us.

[1356] I know.

[1357] God.

[1358] I know.

[1359] In Chavonish Rite Road, so long, my heart's been far from you, 10 ,000 miles gone.

[1360] Oh, I want to come live and give Every part of me With his blood on my hand In my lips are run clean In my darkness, I remember Mama's words were you're calling me Surrender to the good Lord And I wipe your slate, please.

[1361] Take me to your river I Take me to your river I want to know In your smooth waters I Go in As a man with many crimes Come up for air As my sins float Down the Jordan Oh, I want to come near and you Every part of me But there's blood on my hand And my lips are unclean Take me to your river I'm going Take me to your river Want to know Episode 386 with Rachel Ray Okay Rachel, I got to ask you, one question.

[1362] I'm sure this is the last thing you want to talk about, but I only bring it up in terms of how much we're all shifting out of this water we were in.

[1363] Like, I think of it most with these recent documentaries about like Britney Spears, like the questions people asked her when she was a minor about her sexuality and the shaming that happened.

[1364] And I just wanted to know from you.

[1365] There was like some controversy over you being in FHM.

[1366] And I wonder now with your lens, do you think that could happen today?

[1367] Do you think that was not like the most textbook example of like an attempted slut shaming?

[1368] It just seems like something that's so gruesome.

[1369] And I could not have been more excited.

[1370] I thought FHM meant for home or homemakers.

[1371] I had no idea what it even was.

[1372] What is it?

[1373] It's like a men's magazine like Max.

[1374] It was a men's magazine.

[1375] And just the idea that they invited someone, I think I was like 37 at the time, like over 30 at all.

[1376] It is shocking.

[1377] And certainly not a six -foot -tall runway model that anybody would be asked to be sexy in that way.

[1378] I thought it was the coolest freaking thing in the world.

[1379] I'm very proud of it.

[1380] I don't care.

[1381] I'll lick what anybody else thinks about it.

[1382] I don't even look down in the shower.

[1383] I've never had self -esteem in that way.

[1384] I've always been proud of myself as a worker, but I've always thought of myself as kind of a troll otherwise.

[1385] Like just like that Frodo kind of a thing.

[1386] Oh, no. Like just not an attractive human.

[1387] And to be asked to do that, I thought, I'm going to do this.

[1388] God damn, I'm going to do this for everybody who's not that.

[1389] And I'm going to try and embrace this for once in my life.

[1390] And I am so freaking thrilled.

[1391] I had that.

[1392] And I still get those pictures to this day to sign them.

[1393] Yeah.

[1394] I couldn't be more thrilled.

[1395] I freaking love it.

[1396] And I don't give a flying fuck.

[1397] Excuse me. When anybody would have shamed or thought about me then or now.

[1398] I really don't care because I felt good about myself probably the only time in my life in that way.

[1399] Rachel, you're a smoke show.

[1400] You're a smoke show.

[1401] That's a moment I'm not giving back.

[1402] And thank you.

[1403] And thank you.

[1404] Yes.

[1405] I love that you ask me about.

[1406] Winneth P. Paltrow, episode 3 .79.

[1407] I'll be really vulnerable then.

[1408] I had sex very late for the first time.

[1409] Last night.

[1410] Not last night, but not that long ago.

[1411] Like in your 30s?

[1412] I was about to turn 30, I think.

[1413] Wow.

[1414] Yeah.

[1415] And what made you wait so long?

[1416] It wasn't a choice.

[1417] It wasn't like I was like, I'm waiting until marriage or something like that.

[1418] But I had a lot of like blog.

[1419] about being liked and relationships and I didn't have one like growing up ever and no one who I liked liked me. A lot of things piled up into me having like a lot of.

[1420] And I'll add a story that people don't like her and literally is blind to it.

[1421] I've been in front of her while a guy is hitting on her and we walk away and then we fight for 25 minutes about whether he just hit on her.

[1422] And you know that he did and you can't see it.

[1423] Yeah.

[1424] So where does that story come from?

[1425] Well, I was an Indian girl in Georgia, and I felt really other.

[1426] And I also was really other.

[1427] I've been around her screaming, this dude's in love with you.

[1428] No, he likes the show.

[1429] Yeah, he likes a show in which you are yourself on the show.

[1430] And it's not like you're a character on fucking TV that he's in love with.

[1431] You are Monica.

[1432] Right, this is a good point.

[1433] Oh, it drives me crazy, Gwyneth.

[1434] Anyway.

[1435] You and I should go out for coffee and talk about it.

[1436] We're going to do it.

[1437] Spend all your time talking about this.

[1438] But yeah, anyway, so there was a lot going on, yes, and I would always then pick people who I couldn't have to kind of confirm the thing.

[1439] You know, it's a whole thing.

[1440] But I had sex very late.

[1441] Was it a boyfriend by the time?

[1442] Are you just sort of like?

[1443] No, we were, we did like, it was like our third date.

[1444] And I was like, it's time to party.

[1445] It's time, yes.

[1446] I wanted to and I was like, this is.

[1447] Did he know?

[1448] So that was a whole thing.

[1449] I was like, I have to tell him.

[1450] But I didn't also want to tell him like on the first day.

[1451] You know, I was like, How do we do this?

[1452] How do I navigate this?

[1453] Because at that point, you're kind of a little insecure about it.

[1454] Oh, very.

[1455] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1456] I also, this person who's incredible, a very, very special person.

[1457] Are you still with him?

[1458] No. Oh.

[1459] But he has had many sexual partners.

[1460] This I know, which is fine.

[1461] And I knew that.

[1462] So that also added a little bit to the insecurity because I'm like, oh, my God, this person has had so many partners and I've never had sex.

[1463] And I have to tell him.

[1464] So we're, like, fooling around, and it is about to happen, and I have to say, hey, I have to tell you something.

[1465] And he was like, okay.

[1466] Don't worry.

[1467] I already have it.

[1468] Honestly, I mean, obviously, that's.

[1469] I think, which one are you telling you?

[1470] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I already have those ones, yeah.

[1471] But that's obviously what I would think, or what he must have been thinking.

[1472] Yeah.

[1473] Because he was not expecting what I told him.

[1474] I'm just like, I haven't had sex before.

[1475] And he was like, oh, do you want to?

[1476] And I was like, yeah.

[1477] And so we did.

[1478] And he was lovely.

[1479] And he was so like, it was really sweet.

[1480] And then he like sent me this nice text and I'd say like, I hope that was good.

[1481] I want, let's do it again.

[1482] Very good person and experience.

[1483] A nice text.

[1484] I thought you were going to say sent me these nice flowers.

[1485] Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. He posted on Twitter, like, great night last night.

[1486] I mean, he didn't tag me, but I mean, clear.

[1487] But I knew it was about me. No, he was perfect.

[1488] But that feeling of like, oh, my God, I have to tell.

[1489] Oh, I can't.

[1490] This person.

[1491] I'm impressed you did, because I know what it was for you.

[1492] But I felt like that would be so unfair to him if I didn't.

[1493] P .S. you just took my virginity.

[1494] Couldn't do it to him.

[1495] Fuck him.

[1496] That's like, for, I feel like.

[1497] For you, no, it's for you to say, like, this is, I think that's really self -honoring to be like, this is what's happening.

[1498] Yeah.

[1499] I admire it.

[1500] I do, too.

[1501] Yeah.

[1502] I would have chicken.

[1503] Well, I did chicken out.

[1504] I just went, fuck it, I'll hit her butt.

[1505] You were 12.

[1506] Yeah, I'm maybe 11, yeah.

[1507] Oh, he did her butt.

[1508] Anyway, all to say, I only say that because I don't know, everyone's different experiences.

[1509] And, of course, I think, I'm the only person on Earth ever who's that.

[1510] age who has to have that conversation but i'm probably not i'm sure there are other people i'm really impressed you just told that whole story by the way yeah you're a gangster thanks you're getting more and more gangstery by the day thanks episode 381 with ed sharon it's memories and i do it i do it based around wine my thing if i if i do something i'll have a bottle of wine that i want to try and i don't want to be like frivolous and just buy a nice bottle of wine and then just drink it on a Thursday night kind of thing.

[1511] So I have a bottle of wine that I want to try.

[1512] Something gets achieved.

[1513] I'll get the wine.

[1514] I'll decant it for exactly the right time.

[1515] I'll go for dinner with my wife somewhere and we'll have that.

[1516] And then on the bottle, we write, this is what happens at this dinner.

[1517] This is the date.

[1518] This is the restaurant we did it.

[1519] I'll write my name and she writes her name.

[1520] And then I have a shelf at home, which has all of them.

[1521] So all my achievements are now just signed bottles of wine.

[1522] Oh, I like that.

[1523] That is so cute.

[1524] I should do that.

[1525] I adopted it from my friend that passed away in March did it.

[1526] You're Australian from him?

[1527] Yeah, Michael.

[1528] And he had just, his whole house is just covered in these bottles.

[1529] And you would go and he'd be like, this is the night with Springsteen and this is the night with Franks and Arch or whatever.

[1530] And there are all these signed bottles that he had.

[1531] And I thought that was a wonderful idea.

[1532] And I'm so glad that I adopted it because I started it with him.

[1533] So I've got, you know, 30 bottles at home with nights that we had that when he passed away, I could look at and be like, oh, remember this, remember this.

[1534] So it's a good thing to do.

[1535] Episode 286 with Justin Timberlake.

[1536] So we have this really interesting thing, which is we met at these enormous inflection points for our own lives.

[1537] Like you were, as I remember, really recently left your band in sync and you were starting your solo career and it was fucking working.

[1538] And another theme I thought about making this about is, I don't know that I've ever seen anyone navigate opportunity as well as you have.

[1539] really, really incredible and admirable and so hard to do.

[1540] And I do think you've made a kind of an art form.

[1541] You've taken a lot of things that can be stumbling blocks.

[1542] Like Mickey Mouse Club's an opportunity and it could take you down.

[1543] And then being in sync is this insane opportunity.

[1544] Clearly, you got hit by lightning.

[1545] But then where do you go?

[1546] The odds are you're not going to go.

[1547] And then you do.

[1548] And then you go to SNL and you fucking infuriate me because I was a groundling and you did better than I think I could have done.

[1549] And, you know, you take that opportunity and you turn into this thing.

[1550] So I just want to recognize that.

[1551] I think you're brilliant at that.

[1552] I don't know where the fuck the guidance comes from, but you've done it damn near perfect and it's impressive.

[1553] But when we met, I had been trying to be an actor for 10 years, never got a job.

[1554] That was my first job.

[1555] I go into your garage and the whole network's there because MTV knows that their relationship with you is very valuable.

[1556] Oh, really?

[1557] Oh, yeah.

[1558] Oh, wow.

[1559] This is stuff I didn't hear about.

[1560] Yeah.

[1561] So I had shot like six or seven.

[1562] of those already, and no one was there.

[1563] No one was looking over my shoulder going, like, don't be this, don't be that.

[1564] But I was in your garage for an hour and a half being told everything I could and couldn't say.

[1565] Oh, God.

[1566] And then entering into this situation, which you and I were both in, which is a very crazy heightened situation.

[1567] And I want as much latitude as I can have to do, God knows what.

[1568] I mean, it's a very bizarre acting experience in that it's real.

[1569] right and my life depends on that at that moment you know what I'm saying like this is my first shot to be on TV and if I don't do something spectacular I'm just going to not work again for 10 years so for me the stakes were so high you did that okay so we do this thing and then as it was going on what I felt like I learned about you as a person is that you're just a beautiful guy like you're genuinely I'm not kidding like I saw like oh that's cool he still got his bro from home like you know oh he just took his buddy golf in that's cool he's out on a Saturday he's not hung over you know I'm putting together all these kind of like clues I'm like oh this kid you know he's on the right path and then when I brought up your dogs you got really emotional and I was like oh my goodness I've gone too far this is terrible right and this isn't even my kind of show I'm not someone who wants to prank people or embarrass people, but I just fucking need that opportunity, right?

[1570] And so all this stuff's happening.

[1571] It all happened to you and I. And then I thought, this is a fucking beautiful dude.

[1572] He cares about his dog.

[1573] It's the only fucking thing you cared about.

[1574] You didn't care you lost your house.

[1575] You didn't care all your shit was locked up.

[1576] When you found your dogs were somewhere, you were like, no, no. Well, back up, because I've publicly stated this before that because of that day and my buddy who took me out to witset to golf got me so stoned, got me so stoned.

[1577] And I've talked about this before that like, I like swore any type of cannabis off for at least a year where I was like, you did it, they took your house away.

[1578] The last time I did it, I was in the twilight.

[1579] So you have to go back and imagine the reason it was genius is because if you watch a lot of those other episodes, they It happened in a parking lot.

[1580] They happen in a grocery store.

[1581] This was on my property with a gate.

[1582] So you're walking in.

[1583] And obviously, I think MTV, to your point, edited out a lot.

[1584] Because I remember I sat down on the porch, on the front steps, and I looked at Trace, and I was like, I'm so high, man. Is this real?

[1585] Like, is this like, is this really at?

[1586] Like, I'm so high.

[1587] This is where, like, the funnier part, the dogs were actually.

[1588] Actually, my mom's dogs.

[1589] Oh, oh, oh, okay.

[1590] So even more so than, like, if I owned a pet.

[1591] And my whole life, my mother has had some sort of terrier, a cairn terrier, or, you know, a pocket.

[1592] And her dogs are everything.

[1593] Right, right.

[1594] The stakes are very high.

[1595] Oh, they were so high.

[1596] They got her on the phone, which honestly, that performance.

[1597] on the phone that you couldn't hear.

[1598] I mean, it made me question everything about my mother.

[1599] Like, I was like, I was like, oh, she's lied to me before.

[1600] Well, you get to the point where you're that high, and any time you go back to the moment of that experience, it's almost like muscle memory, like you get that high.

[1601] Right, the PTSD.

[1602] Yeah.

[1603] So that's where it got really real.

[1604] And I was like, if I don't get my mom's, dogs back.

[1605] Because I was immediately going through like, oh, I'll get the house back.

[1606] And I was so gone in that moment.

[1607] The other good specific detail was like, no, we sent these bills or whatever to this address, which at the time was my old Tennessee address before I had just moved to that house.

[1608] Yeah.

[1609] And it was spot on.

[1610] And I was like, this got lost in the mess.

[1611] I know, that explains this mix -up.

[1612] What was this?

[1613] Tony fucking Express.

[1614] Like, who sent this?

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