Conan O’Brien Needs A Friend XX
[0] Hi, my name is Albert Brooks.
[1] And I feel confused that I'm asked to do something.
[2] I was asked 40 years ago by some disc jockey on K .H .J. Dawn in the morning.
[3] And I guess nothing's ever changed.
[4] So I'm confused about being Conan O 'Brien's friend.
[5] Oh my god We bought the rights from that disjockey Hi, I'm Rob Reiner and I feel Almost honored Yes Be Conan O 'Brien's friend That's so close to being a real Just a real statement from both of you Fall is here Hear the yell Back to school Ring the bell Brand new shoes Walking loose Climb the fence, books and pens, I can tell that we are going to be friends.
[6] Yes, I can tell that we are going to be friends.
[7] Hey there, welcome to Conan O 'Brien Needs a Friend, joined by my two friends.
[8] I consider you friends.
[9] Oh, that's nice.
[10] No, it took a while.
[11] Five years.
[12] Fifteen.
[13] Is that how, Sona, how long have you been with me?
[14] You know, I actually just messaged you recently because I found, 15 years ago on December 3rd, I found out I got my job because it's my best friend, Christina's birthday.
[15] And I emailed you.
[16] She emailed me. It was very sweet.
[17] And she said it was 15 years ago that she met.
[18] She was going to be my brand new assistant because I was moving out to Los Angeles to host a Tonight Show for 40 years.
[19] The plan went off without a hitch.
[20] But we had the interview.
[21] And then you were told that you were hired.
[22] And then we met at a coffee shop on San Vicente in Brentwood.
[23] I remembered in the meeting that for some reason you were sitting on a couch that I think was a very low couch and had a soft cushion.
[24] So people were asking me, who would you end up hiring?
[25] And I said, oh, it's this woman, Sona.
[26] She seems really bright.
[27] And she's highly recommended.
[28] And so I hired her.
[29] And they're like, what would she like?
[30] I said, she's got dark hair.
[31] She's really short because I just remembered thinking you were really short because you sunk into the couch.
[32] So then I meet you at this coffee shop and you are tall.
[33] yeah pretty tall i mean but with uh your hair was was up oh you had your hair bun up so made you over eight feet high and uh but you came in and i remembered it sona had a notebook and she was writing everything i said down very seriously and we had a professional exchange it was nice for the last time it was so hilarious and i will say i did more to corrupt things immediately than anyone you did all of it.
[34] I did all my cone and shtick.
[35] And very quickly, you said, I'm not going to listen to anything this guy says.
[36] Nothing's serious.
[37] He's a fool.
[38] But I always go back to that first time.
[39] Sona walks in, taller than I had remembered, that's the first thing it struck me, notebook, writing everything down.
[40] And then on her own initiative, because I was moving my whole family out from New York, she made a book for me, like a professional book that she had bound that said, here's what helpful things to know about L .A. And it includes, when it first rains in L .A., there's a lot of sediment because it doesn't rain regularly, so drive more carefully.
[41] The secret menu for In and Out?
[42] Yeah, no, seriously.
[43] No, no, seriously, it was filled.
[44] And it was a book that you could have published that you just made on your own.
[45] And I remembered thinking, this person is fantastic.
[46] And then I immediately corrupted you.
[47] Yeah.
[48] And it reminds me of, on The Simpsons, I didn't write this joke, but someone wrote this joke where, you know, Barney's really smart and he's studying hard for the, you know, L -S -A -T or something.
[49] He's just, and then Homer convinces him to have a drink of beer and he has it and he immediately turns into Barney and he's like, and you see.
[50] I'm Barney.
[51] Uh -huh.
[52] Well, he's Homer.
[53] I realized, I infected you with the Conan stupidity.
[54] Yeah.
[55] And then that was all gone.
[56] And then it went from, hey, Sona, you know, when is my car going to be out of my, out of the shop?
[57] Boo -hoo.
[58] Conan doesn't have his car.
[59] Fancy talk show host won't have a way to.
[60] No, Sona, I know.
[61] I'm just curious when it's going to be out.
[62] So I know that I don't have to take an Uber.
[63] Hey, you don't get an Uber, boo -hoo.
[64] Well, yeah, I think you're giving me too much credit.
[65] I think your kids actually said the most accurate thing, which is you melted half my brain.
[66] I said something about Sonan, and they went, you melted half her.
[67] brain.
[68] And these are little kids.
[69] And I said, well, what about the first half?
[70] And they went, that was already melted.
[71] I'm like, I think that is the best description of my relationship with Sona.
[72] Now, Gorley came to me more fully formed as a human being.
[73] And I've tried to damage you, but you seem more resistant.
[74] Oh, I'm pre -damaged.
[75] You're pre -damaged.
[76] Yeah, I think.
[77] But you seem like you have it together.
[78] Oh, no, no. Falling apart.
[79] Okay.
[80] Yeah.
[81] You make falling apart look pretty good.
[82] You can clean up real nice.
[83] Yeah.
[84] It is, it is.
[85] It is funny how these little memories come along and you time travel back to, oh, right.
[86] I was an adult who was a TV host who was meeting an assistant and we were a professional seconds before it all went to Cuckoo Town.
[87] You got in just in time.
[88] I want someone to do a deep dive of people before they met you and after they met you and how much you ruined them.
[89] Well, you know who's been amazing is my wife.
[90] My wife is just so, Liza is so adept at parrying my madness and, you know, handling it.
[91] And you know, that thing I do where I'm just saying crazy things and Sona will say, what you say that for?
[92] And I'll say, don't let him bother you.
[93] I talk about myself in the third person.
[94] And I managed to get people around me going, what do you mean him?
[95] And I go, he's just, and I'll be who?
[96] And I'll be like, Conan.
[97] Conan's just in one of those, it's just Conan doing his Conan thing.
[98] And they're like, no, you're, it's so great because I do that around Liza.
[99] And she's like, uh -huh.
[100] Okay, so anyway.
[101] She's completely unfazed.
[102] She is not having it.
[103] You make all of us unhirable.
[104] Yes.
[105] And you do, I think you do it on purpose.
[106] Like, I don't, Blake can't work anywhere else.
[107] No. I've been ruined.
[108] Yes.
[109] No, no, it's true.
[110] None of us can work anywhere else.
[111] No, Eduardo.
[112] Eduardo could, hasn't been ruined yet.
[113] Eduardo, I think, could still, and you will soon work someplace else.
[114] Because I know you have that.
[115] look of someone who's like, I'm out of here.
[116] But, Eduardo, I haven't ruined you yet, right?
[117] No, I don't think so.
[118] Yeah.
[119] But you are very comfortable giving me tons of shit constantly now.
[120] I am.
[121] Thanks to Sona.
[122] Yeah.
[123] Yeah.
[124] That's my legacy.
[125] I think you came in the other day and just immediately attacked me for something.
[126] I've never flipped off anyone more times.
[127] I'll see, I'll see Eduardo, like, walking down the street and I'll lower me when I'm going, Eduardo, and he flips me off.
[128] I'm like, wow, that guy hates.
[129] Don't talk to me in public, asshole.
[130] What's it like to work for someone you're scared of?
[131] I would never know that.
[132] I know.
[133] I learned that too.
[134] Oh, no, no one has, anyone who knows me is immediately unafraid to just tell me exactly what they think of me. But I think it's not that I don't want to speak for you to, but it's not that you feel like powerful.
[135] It's more a defense mechanism of like I, you have to put up your walls with this guy.
[136] You have to defend yourself.
[137] This guy, by the way, is out of control.
[138] This guy is.
[139] Well, this guy, Conan.
[140] Yeah.
[141] And I've noticed it too with him.
[142] I think he's, I think he's, I think he's insanely talented.
[143] This is maddened.
[144] No, no, he's insane.
[145] Look, I'm saying this as I've watched him for a while.
[146] He's crazy off the charts.
[147] Wrap it up, Dickface.
[148] Probably means Conan.
[149] But you know what?
[150] To match credit, that's how you have to deal with Conan.
[151] Because he's, he's what?
[152] He's a once and a hundred year talent, but then he gets off the rails and this is how he has to be dealt with.
[153] What you guys are doing is perfect.
[154] I would say you are a once in a hundred years something.
[155] Like a tsunami.
[156] A natural disaster.
[157] All right, I'm back to being me again.
[158] Hey, Conan, I just showed up.
[159] That other guy just left.
[160] Oh, Conan's back.
[161] Hey, I am very excited.
[162] I don't know what that other guy thinks.
[163] Yeah.
[164] I am thrilled, absolutely thrilled.
[165] This is a very special podcast today.
[166] Seriously.
[167] It really is.
[168] My guest today have been friends for almost 60 years.
[169] One is the filmmaker behind such classics as when Harry Met Sally, and this is Spinal Tap.
[170] The other is a comedy legend who start in films like Modern Love and Broadcast News.
[171] Now they have a new documentary streaming on Max.
[172] And it is, it's a must.
[173] You must watch this.
[174] I have watched it, I think now three times.
[175] I love it.
[176] It's titled Albert Brooks, Defending My Life.
[177] I am honored.
[178] That word doesn't even do it justice.
[179] I'm beside myself that they are here today.
[180] Rob Reiner, Albert Brooks, welcome.
[181] There's no way around this, so I'll get it out of the way.
[182] I've done, how many of these have I done, Adam, 520, how many?
[183] It's a big day for me. I'm totally in love with both of you guys and your incredible body of work.
[184] And so the fact that you're here talking to me is a huge deal.
[185] And that's pretty much all the time we have.
[186] We should wrap it up there because these are two men that don't want to be complimented, especially Alba.
[187] I have a hard time with it.
[188] That's Barry Sanders.
[189] I want to be complimented.
[190] You wanted to.
[191] You're incredible, Albert.
[192] What can I say?
[193] I think the same, Albert.
[194] Yeah.
[195] I have to say there's a lot to talk about here.
[196] I wanted to start because it just happened.
[197] We just lost Norman Lear.
[198] I know you guys both knew this man very well.
[199] And for you, Rob, you was like a second dad.
[200] He was.
[201] I mean, I'm very lucky that I had two role models in my life that I could look up to.
[202] And I learned from.
[203] I mean, I met Norman when I was a little kid.
[204] And he, you know, he tells a story.
[205] I don't remember it.
[206] But he tells me that I was playing with his daughter who was eight years old.
[207] We were both eight.
[208] And we were playing Jacks.
[209] And I was teaching her how to play giving her the rules to Jacks.
[210] And apparently I was doing it in a funny way.
[211] I didn't know.
[212] And he told my father, he said, you know, your kid is really funny.
[213] And my dad said, really, that sullen child of mine, he can't be that funny.
[214] So Norman was the first guy to record.
[215] Can I say how times have changed?
[216] Because that's how long ago it was that the thing was, your kid is so funny playing Jacks.
[217] Today, nothing said about a kid with a little girl is ever good.
[218] But wait a minute, wait a minute.
[219] If you called your dad.
[220] It's a very creepy con. Yeah, but Albert, we were both eight.
[221] I wasn't like 24 and she was eight.
[222] You were advanced for your age.
[223] And your line for much of your adult life is, do you want to play Jack?
[224] As my uncle used to say, you're old enough to be canceled.
[225] Well, first of all, Norman was, was he 101?
[226] 1001.
[227] Absolutely unbelievable.
[228] And, of course, your father, Carl, lived.
[229] 98.
[230] 98.
[231] Yeah.
[232] And I was at some event.
[233] And this is maybe two years ago.
[234] And Norman was talking.
[235] And he talked about this longevity thing with.
[236] communities and he said I swear to God people always ask us it's something about laughing all the time he said him it well wait a minute Henry Kissinger yeah he was very funny he was very funny he was very funny very funny he laughed every day I saw him once at the improv and how did he do he did that same Vietnam bit did he get any laughs I told him the Pueblo was real they didn't really laugh laugh then he did audience work Have you, yes, I was going to say his crowd work was spectacular.
[237] Where are you from?
[238] Where are you from?
[239] You called out the sweater.
[240] You have papers?
[241] So the point is, if you laugh every day, you live a very long time.
[242] Well, no, no, no, maybe.
[243] I don't know.
[244] And also, you have that good genes.
[245] We can think of people we know contemporaries that are no longer with us at laughed.
[246] I don't think it's any of that.
[247] I think it's lucky.
[248] Yeah.
[249] Well, I tried to say a sweet positive thing.
[250] And Albert told me out at the knees.
[251] Albert put a damper on it.
[252] Yeah, yeah.
[253] I don't feel good now.
[254] I absolutely loved the documentary.
[255] Albert Brooks defending my life and thought it was beautifully done.
[256] And what was great was this has been long overdue because your body of work, Albert, is insanely rich.
[257] and ingenious and inspiring for generations of comedians.
[258] But it took a friend, because you guys knew each other.
[259] You met in high school?
[260] Right.
[261] You met in high school.
[262] Yes.
[263] And we've known each other for 60 years.
[264] And I always wanted to do this when you remember the film, my dinner with Andre when it came out?
[265] At that point, I said to Albert, come on, we'll go to a deli.
[266] We'll sit down.
[267] It'll be my lunch with Albert and we'll do it.
[268] And he never wanted to do it at that point.
[269] But then at a certain point, I don't know what made you.
[270] you change your mind, but we decided to do it.
[271] And that became the centerpiece of the documentary, the two of us just sitting in a restaurant and talking.
[272] Someone came to me before Rob with the idea of doing a documentary, and it didn't work out.
[273] But then the idea was like the idea, but to do it is good.
[274] So then I was having dinner with Rob and, you know, do you ever want to do my lunch with Albert?
[275] And I said, well, what if we combine this?
[276] We do that, and then we also broaden it out and do clips and talk to people.
[277] Well, the absolute rocket fuel are the bits.
[278] And because the comedic bits that you were doing, they were not, they're evergreen.
[279] They really are.
[280] Every single sketch bit that you've done, whether it was on the Tonight Show or the Flip Wilson show or the Johnny Cash show.
[281] I mean, there are people who had shows.
[282] I can't believe who had a show.
[283] Everybody had a show.
[284] Everyone had a show.
[285] Even Conan O 'Brien.
[286] Had a show, yeah.
[287] But you said it, Conan.
[288] You said it in the documentary that it was like he broke the sound barrier.
[289] It was like Chuck Yeager.
[290] And they found a new way of presenting comedy.
[291] And Albert was...
[292] Well, that's been misinterpreted.
[293] What I was saying is Albert's as funny as Chuck Yeager.
[294] And then people took it this other way.
[295] And who was funnier?
[296] Kissinger or Chuck Yeager?
[297] I would say, Yeager.
[298] That's not the fair thing.
[299] But you did a kind of, there was a kind of comedy that you studied.
[300] Oh, I made up a joke the other day.
[301] Oh, yeah.
[302] Neil Armstrong was at a party and told these people a joke and no one laughed.
[303] He told a joke about the moon and no one laughed.
[304] And he said, well, I guess you had to be there.
[305] I was with you.
[306] I love this moment.
[307] First time I met, Albert, was at this event.
[308] and I'd never met him before, and I was, and this, I'll, I'll back up just a second because I was so relieved, you said something in the documentary, Rob, that resonated with me, which is, I think I've met everybody, just about everybody, and I'm never intimidated.
[309] I was intimidated to meet Albert.
[310] I was worried about it.
[311] I thought, we're probably going to bump into each other at some point, and I felt a little queasy about it.
[312] And then you say in the documentary that you all, always were intimidated by Albert.
[313] Well, it's not just intimidated.
[314] You just, where is this coming from?
[315] This mind, I've never met anybody that has a mind that works that way.
[316] And other comics, you know, established comics, Larry David in the documentary.
[317] He says the same thing that he was, you know, so happy when Albert gave him approval to a joke, he said, or something like that.
[318] You have to understand.
[319] I mean, I, in the circles I was with, I don't.
[320] care who they were.
[321] It was Robin Williams, Billy because I don't care who were in the when we got together and people started fritzing.
[322] When Albert started, when Albert went, it was like, you know, challenge dance when everybody's challenging.
[323] When Albert started, everybody backed off.
[324] Yeah.
[325] Everybody backed off because they knew that you know, here comes the guy.
[326] Here's Babe Ruth stepping into the cage.
[327] And I always thought it was a cool thing.
[328] And then when I got married, my wife said it's because you never shower.
[329] You think that's why they backed off?
[330] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[331] Yeah, I remember.
[332] You know, it was so funny because Albert was the first time I met you.
[333] You won't remember this, but someone's house, we're standing by a pool.
[334] You told me a story that was really funny, and I laughed, legitimately laughed, was a very funny story.
[335] And you had some friend with you who I didn't know, and the friend just kind of shrugged and said, well, I guess he had to be there.
[336] And you turned on your friend and went, no, no, he laughed.
[337] Apparently, you didn't have to be there.
[338] And I was in the moment watching, you know, and Albert.
[339] I said, don't you understand that expression?
[340] That's when nobody laughs.
[341] If somebody laughs, you don't have to be anywhere.
[342] You don't have to be anywhere.
[343] You don't have to be anywhere.
[344] You are a stupid man. I don't know who it was, but forever in my mind, I cherish that.
[345] But Albert, you know, we talked about this in the documentary.
[346] great.
[347] Albert would go on national television, live television, without ever trying out the bit he was going to do.
[348] That, to me, is talk about working without a net.
[349] I mean, this is, in the case, Inette Funicello, which was what would make anybody good.
[350] But, no, but, but, no, he, no, but.
[351] That's bordering on you had to be there.
[352] We had to know that reference.
[353] No, no, but he would, he would.
[354] do this and you know we shared a house together and and you know i don't remember it exactly but he did the first time he did the mine piece i don't think it worked did it work did it work the first time you did it well the very first time i don't think it worked it was the steve allen show yeah it worked nobody the point is he came out he was doing a mime and he came out in the white face and the leotards and he never stopped talking it's so funny so it's a brilliant piece and it didn't play the way it should And then time goes by, and I think you were called to do the Tonight Show or something.
[355] And I said, Albert, what are you going to do on the show tonight?
[356] He says, I'm going to do the Mime Piece.
[357] And I said, yeah, but it didn't get, it didn't do well.
[358] He says, yeah, but it's funny.
[359] I said, I know it's funny, but it didn't get the kind of.
[360] He says, yeah, but it's funny.
[361] And that's the thing that I learned about Albert, which is, it is funny.
[362] You just, the audience has to catch up to it.
[363] They just have to know it.
[364] And Johnny Carson was hosting, and he came out.
[365] And the same kind of thing, where they were a little bit hesitant they didn't know, Johnny went.
[366] And I was there.
[367] Johnny literally fell off his chair and the audience said, I see.
[368] Yes.
[369] I get what this is.
[370] A lot of times in my experience, if the audience is looking at the host and they want permission and that they need permission and then they know everything's okay.
[371] Yeah.
[372] And so that bit come out and you're talking and you're describing, I am now walking against the wind.
[373] I'm doing it.
[374] But then you just, it just goes into stand -up comedy as a mime about my wife.
[375] And, you know, she said she lost 30 pounds.
[376] And I said, look behind you, you'll find it.
[377] And you're in total mine makeup and you're doing it.
[378] And the thing is that I think when I talked in the doc about breaking the sound barrier, to me it's about the level of commitment.
[379] And it's why I think it was no surprise that you turned out to be of such an excellent actor.
[380] When you were doing these pieces, I think there was a, time in show business where you needed to let everybody know.
[381] I'm in show business.
[382] These are jokes.
[383] Let's have a good time.
[384] Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
[385] And what you were doing was this like De Niro like commitment that you made it okay for everybody to sort of work.
[386] I mean, you know, with respect to people, the audience is the last to know anything.
[387] They're there, you don't, I never understood the idea of doing it for an audience because the audience doesn't know anything until they see it.
[388] So if you do anything they haven't seen before, you don't get immediately rewarded.
[389] Like when you're previewing a movie with cards, the movies that get a hundred are the movies they've seen every other weekend.
[390] Right.
[391] They're familiar.
[392] They're familiar.
[393] Unfamiliar doesn't get a good grade.
[394] But what do you do?
[395] You just never do it.
[396] But, you know, it's the same.
[397] It's the same.
[398] If we go into a restaurant and it's a fine restaurant and we're served a dish, we don't know anything about this.
[399] We take the word of the person who owns the restaurant and we taste something we've never tasted.
[400] And if the world didn't have that possibility, and by the way, I think show business is, that's the holy grail, is no risk.
[401] And I think as algorithms get mature and as more executives get parking spots, the risk is less and less because it's a business.
[402] Why do you want to take a risk?
[403] I mean, I learned from Albert, you know, when I saw how committed he was to doing that bit, even though it had I, when we first screen spinal tap, which, you know, Albert had done real life before that, but this was the first kind of about rock and roll and there was a mock documentary.
[404] And we previewed it in Dallas.
[405] And people came up to me afterwards and they said, I don't understand.
[406] Why would you make a movie about a band that nobody's ever heard of?
[407] and one that's so bad.
[408] And so it's like, yeah, they didn't know what we were doing.
[409] It took them a while to figure out that this were making fun of this, you know.
[410] And I learned from Albert, you've got to stick to your guns and hopefully the audience will catch up.
[411] They'll like the dish that they were served.
[412] I think what I learned in the doc was that I talk about, I mean, I think there was a Barbara Mandrell show.
[413] If you had one hit single, they suddenly gave you a variety show.
[414] And it feels, Albert, like you did all.
[415] There probably was a bar.
[416] I mean...
[417] That was the circuit.
[418] It was the circuit.
[419] And so what you did is you did all of these shows and the bits are fantastic.
[420] And you're, you know, bit after bit after bit, you're an elephant tamer that comes out.
[421] But you announce to the crowd.
[422] I'm an elephant tamer.
[423] I have all these tricks into the elephant.
[424] The elephant got sick.
[425] Just, I'm going to use a frog, but just, it's the same tricks.
[426] And it's such a beautiful...
[427] I mean, you're laughing at hearing the idea, but then the execution is absolutely fantastic.
[428] You're doing these bits on these shows long before you get to Johnny.
[429] And I think one of the keys in show business that's harder to find these days is there were places to work things out.
[430] You were doing it on television.
[431] But before you got to the Holy Grill, which was Carson.
[432] Right.
[433] And if you do Johnny Carson, as you say in the dock, the next day, anywhere you went, you talk about going to the dry cleaner the next day, hey, great bit.
[434] Everybody had seen it.
[435] Right.
[436] But I was fortunate because I didn't get to that show with that.
[437] I got to the show, in his mind, as established.
[438] Yeah, exactly.
[439] There wasn't, and I didn't even want to do that.
[440] I begged my agent to get on to Dick Cavett because he was the thing.
[441] He was the John Lennon was on there.
[442] Yeah.
[443] And they didn't want me. So I went to Johnny Carson by default.
[444] And what a great default it was because nobody watched Dick Cavett, you know?
[445] I mean, a couple of college kids, but Johnny Carson was like a pathway.
[446] way to another universe.
[447] No, it's the equivalent of being today the closest thing you can think of Johnny Carson on a Tuesday night.
[448] Today, the only thing that comes close is maybe the Super Bowl.
[449] That's how many people are tuning in.
[450] You got maybe half the country watching because he had a monopoly.
[451] Well, it was a Super Bowl for people you knew because I did Ed Sullivan and that, you know, on paper, they said that was 50 million people.
[452] But it wasn't people I saw in Los Angeles.
[453] Now, if you go to St. Louis, that's where, hey, Ed Sullivan, they do watch, but it wasn't the group, it wasn't the market I went to or the dry cleaner or my day.
[454] But the Carson Show, everywhere you went, the gas station.
[455] Hey, Zahar you, Johnny.
[456] You know, that's what that got, at least where you live.
[457] You just didn't go to places where Ed Sullivan went.
[458] Well, I couldn't travel.
[459] Where did that Sullivan go?
[460] I always, I, I, I, I've always had an adage if you have to travel more than 2 ,000 miles to get a compliment.
[461] Don't do it.
[462] I like that yours is 2000.
[463] Mine is 4 ,000.
[464] I have a wider circle because I'm hungrier.
[465] Good rule of thumb, though.
[466] Good rule of thumb.
[467] I went to Oahu once after that Hawaiian bit I did just to walk around.
[468] Did you get people saying?
[469] Not one.
[470] Not one.
[471] You know, it's interesting.
[472] Rob, you got this taste with All in the Family.
[473] How old were you?
[474] Is it 1970?
[475] 71.
[476] I was 23.
[477] You're 23.
[478] And that's a show that everybody in the country starts watching.
[479] I mean, it was, I remember in our family, that's what you did.
[480] Yeah.
[481] You watched All in the Family.
[482] And by the way, we were a country of 200 million people at that time and we had 40, 45 million people watching every week and they couldn't TiVo or DVR.
[483] You had a lot You had to be there.
[484] You had to watch it when it was on.
[485] So you had a shared experience by 40, 50 million people watching this every week.
[486] And that's what a big successful sitcom was.
[487] You had to get those.
[488] You know, those are extraordinary numbers.
[489] But if you didn't get 30 million, you didn't stay on.
[490] Well, it's hilarious now to look at the ratings of late night.
[491] It kept eroding over time.
[492] No, but it's serious.
[493] It's kept eroding over time.
[494] I sit back.
[495] I have a drink and laugh at 1 .1.
[496] Yeah, yeah.
[497] Well, I mean, you know.
[498] Seriously, like if you get a million people to watch, like a monster hit is five to ten million people, and they're not all watching at the same time.
[499] No, that's with that.
[500] Nielsen had to come up with those things that they were going to go out of business, those after things, you know?
[501] You can't, we're not going to pay you to tell us 700 ,000 people watched.
[502] Okay, okay.
[503] Well, look, seven, and then another 200 ,000 watched on their watch the next day.
[504] All right, all right, and 40 ,000 saw it in their suit.
[505] 40 ,000 people heard it, okay, add that, and 10 ,000 people told someone else.
[506] Not enough.
[507] All right, all right.
[508] We'll come up with another thing.
[509] And you can't talk to anybody about a show that you've seen.
[510] That's the problem.
[511] Because they always say, I didn't see that ep.
[512] I'm only on season one.
[513] Don't tell me. Don't tell me. So you can't ever have a discussion.
[514] We have a talk.
[515] The water cooler is gone.
[516] Yeah.
[517] But I remember how much of my life, my childhood was seeing, you know, you on all family and how that was a cultural event um you being on johnny or your films on s and l you talked about it you know it would happen on a you would happen and then you'd you'd all talk about it my friends who were into comedy and i would talk about it in brookline mass well think about think about this talk about appointment television saturday night live when it first came on that's a saturday night that and you you had to watch it when it was on and it was you know it was on 1130 and it's a 11 .30 on the West Coast, kids, young people in parties would stop whatever they were doing and watch Saturday night.
[518] And that, you know...
[519] Also, we have to bring this up because it's in the dock and it's something I did not know, which is that you were approached by Lorne at...
[520] And Dick Abersall.
[521] Dick Aversall, wonderful, wonderful man. You have a great love for him, don't you?
[522] You know, I know about that.
[523] His knowledge of comedy is stunning.
[524] Yeah.
[525] Anyway, he's on the Rushmore.
[526] He's on the Mount Rushmore.
[527] But anyway, those guys approached you about building SNL around you.
[528] And you said, I think that's, and you said, I think that's a mistake.
[529] Well, here's the thing.
[530] You know, it's 50 years ago and I'm maybe Lauren has another memory of it.
[531] But it wasn't that complicated.
[532] In the fall of 74, I went to a meeting and they said, because that was Johnny Carson's rerun night, and they said, we're going to stop doing that, we're going to put an original show.
[533] We want to do it live from New York, and we'd like it to be Albert Brooks show.
[534] You would be the host.
[535] Now, I had flirted with television twice before, and thank God, the way the life works, I didn't do it.
[536] it.
[537] One, about two and a half years earlier, I got offered my own summer show on CBS, six shows.
[538] And I mean, it was going to be the Albert Brooks show.
[539] What kind of show will it be?
[540] I was, you know, really starting to think.
[541] There were offices.
[542] We got offices.
[543] And then I was asked to Carol Burnett, who was the big CBS star, was honored, and I was asked to perform at the event, and I didn't have a lot of stuff.
[544] I had bits that I did from the road, one of which was on my album, Comedy Minus 1, not to be confused with Godzilla minus 1.
[545] Somebody said, is that where you play part of a monster?
[546] I don't have any.
[547] But so I performed to that, and I did this bit that I did on my record.
[548] where if you're a comedian and you're performing in the South and you're bombing, then you have that fail -safe, you dig deep, and you come out, and you pronounce it clearly, and you somehow get out the word shit.
[549] And that turns everything around.
[550] They laugh for 20 minutes.
[551] I said people run out.
[552] They build a statue in the park.
[553] You know.
[554] And so basically it was shit.
[555] saved my life.
[556] So the next day, I get a call, and William Paley called my agency and said, this foul -mouth young man will not appear on my network.
[557] So I didn't do that.
[558] So, and then earlier on, I was going to do a sitcom that I backed out of in a meeting where that was already a go.
[559] Aaron Spelling was producing it.
[560] It was a whole season approved.
[561] And Michael Eisner, the last question, said, Well, let me ask Albert, though, what do you see for this character in five years?
[562] And I said, suicide.
[563] And I stood up, and I said, I'm not ready.
[564] This is not going to work.
[565] And I left.
[566] And the agents follow me into the elevator in one of them and said, you should wait.
[567] You should wait.
[568] And the other said, I don't think it's a good.
[569] He should do it.
[570] And so after those two, I was done with television.
[571] I wanted to make movies.
[572] So, A, I wasn't going to do the Albert Brooks show, but I also thought that they were talking to somebody from Los Angeles.
[573] And when they said we're doing a live show at 1130 in New York, to me, live meant nothing.
[574] It was no live.
[575] I didn't see anything that I wasn't supposed to see.
[576] If somebody in New York said a swear word, it was— You mean like shit?
[577] It was cut out long before I saw it.
[578] So I had a couple of thoughts.
[579] I said, well, wouldn't it make more sense?
[580] I mean, the Tonight Show, in essence, is live.
[581] They never stop.
[582] What if you did one at 4 .30 and one at 7 .30 and put the best together to air?
[583] But they wanted live, and obviously it worked.
[584] It was a, you know, but I knew that I would be John Belushi.
[585] I'd be on eight grams of Coke.
[586] I'm not good starting at 1130.
[587] It's why I hated the road.
[588] I never got that third show at midnight.
[589] It just didn't make sense to me. It was too late, too much.
[590] And I said, you know, every show has the same host.
[591] You should use different hosts each week.
[592] So they said, okay, well, thanks for coming in.
[593] Then four months went by.
[594] They hadn't done anything yet.
[595] They came back to me. We want you associated with the show.
[596] What do you want to do?
[597] I said, I want to do short films.
[598] So I made an agreement.
[599] to do it.
[600] I did them here.
[601] And for that, in the spring of 75, Lorne and I did the national junket.
[602] In those days, they would take the Sheridan Universal, and every reporter would have a different room, and they'd set up the room so they could pretend you came to them.
[603] Yes.
[604] So you'd walk into a room there'd be this fake palm tree.
[605] Albert Brooks, welcome to Fort Lauderdale.
[606] Thank you.
[607] Wow, it's sweaty out there.
[608] You know, they loved if you played along.
[609] Sure, yeah.
[610] And it was the same interview.
[611] So you're going to make short films for a new show.
[612] I am.
[613] What's the show about?
[614] I don't really know.
[615] Here's the producer.
[616] Ask Lorne.
[617] And he didn't know at that moment.
[618] What's the show about?
[619] Well, we're going to have the new kind of comedy, and it's going to be new in that.
[620] So then from that point, Lauren got his primetime players, and he built this show that has been the longest -running show in television.
[621] So obviously he did it perfectly, but that's the way it went down.
[622] I love the short film that I remember.
[623] And I'm the most believers that God is in the details.
[624] You know, I just love the little things.
[625] And devil is in the details.
[626] And the devil's in the details.
[627] They're both in the details.
[628] Yeah.
[629] How does that work?
[630] I wish you hadn't brought that up.
[631] But the school where they teach you comedy.
[632] Well, that was not for Saturday Night.
[633] That wasn't for S &L?
[634] No, that was the first thing.
[635] That was for a show called The Great American Dream Machine.
[636] Yeah.
[637] I just I just remember, that was, I had written an article for Esquire called Albert Brooks famous school for comedians.
[638] Which many people took seriously.
[639] Two thousand.
[640] How many people apply?
[641] Two thousand tests they got rid of.
[642] They took these tests, but one of my favorite things is.
[643] We had pictures of a fake school.
[644] It was like those famous artist school.
[645] And then we had a two, you can draw this pirate.
[646] Yeah.
[647] A two -page comedy talent test.
[648] Yes.
[649] Well, there's a short.
[650] Via Don Rickles.
[651] That woman, that woman wearing that.
[652] That mink over there looks like a bear, squirrel, gentile, you know, and then you had to check the box, you know.
[653] Well, it's you walking down the hall and saying there's a different class going on in each room.
[654] And then you say, in this class, we're going to look at students are learning the spit take.
[655] Now, you remember when Denny Thomas on his show would do his, someone with his agent would give him bad news and he'd spit his coffee out?
[656] Well, here they're learning the famous spit take.
[657] Let's see how it's going.
[658] You open the door.
[659] and what I love it's maybe 30 students in a horseshoe shape around and there's a teacher talking the floor is covered with spit and coffee and I always as a kid I remembered seeing that and howling like I know what's coming and it was this wonderful thing that many people think comedy is not knowing what's coming no there's a beautiful kind of comedy where you're told you open the door and there's coffee everywhere and then they do it No, no, Lucille, you dribbled.
[660] That's not...
[661] You gargled.
[662] There was a class, and many times when comedians make it big, they give back to society.
[663] Here in this class, students are choosing which disease to work for in case they make it big.
[664] And one student is going, what about eczema?
[665] He says, you know, that's not going to work.
[666] Yeah, he says, yeah, another student, I thought it was cured.
[667] No, it's not, no, you know, picking the three diseases left.
[668] But anyway, I did that about three years before Saturday night, but that got my taste for I remember seeing that and loving it and then loving that with the short films and then the movies, you're treated as if you have a sense of humor, you're going to find out where the comedy is.
[669] And I think one of the things that really held true for spinal tap, it was so true to a real documentary that you know long before now mockumentary as a whole channel probably in streaming this was before that really that happened and and of course you did it in uh real life in real life and it's it's up to you to decide as an intelligent person where the comedy is yeah i mean which is a change which what is a change at the time yeah because it's look comedy is still a second class in in the world.
[670] It's why they say at the Oscars, you know, should there be a category for comedy acting?
[671] Like, it's the stupidest thing I ever heard.
[672] But somehow, it was like an acting school.
[673] If a student could cry, which is only a chemical thing, it has nothing you do with emotions.
[674] If you're a person whose tear ducts are such that you keep your eyes open and you can start to produce, you'd get an A because people think that that's good acting.
[675] And, you know, scenes, dramatic scenes where people yelled, that was good acting.
[676] And that's sort of the way the whole world thinks.
[677] And drama is considered the serious part of it.
[678] And comedies like, and it's the same as what you're saying because most comedies would let you know it's a comedy.
[679] Right.
[680] You know, it's like, you know, either, even with the comedy.
[681] the logo, you know, the zany thing or the kooky music.
[682] They wanted to let the audience know.
[683] Spinal Tap, they wanted to release it.
[684] Remember, Airplane was a, you know, big, big hit comedy, and we came in after that, and they said, well, we're going to do, you know, instead of the twisted plane, we're going to have a twisted guitar, and that's going to be spinal.
[685] I said, all right, that's good.
[686] That could have saved it.
[687] But, you know, you're saying it's very close to the bone.
[688] That's what you would do.
[689] and it's very close to real.
[690] I hired a DP who had done a lot of rock and roll documentaries who had shot them.
[691] And as we're shooting it, he says, I don't understand.
[692] What's funny about this?
[693] This is what they do.
[694] This is the real thing.
[695] There's nothing funny here.
[696] And I said, yeah, no, but we're twisting it a little bit, you don't, you know.
[697] But also the, I think you both have done this masterfully, but awkward silences.
[698] And I brought up De Niro before, but De Niro enraging Bull, his, and he's played this character so many times, but someone who notices something and then kind of can't let it go.
[699] Yeah, well, De Niro's always like that.
[700] I mean, once you say you're talking to me, if nobody answers, you shouldn't keep asking it.
[701] Yeah, yeah.
[702] He had his answer.
[703] Yes.
[704] No, no one was talking to you.
[705] But he won't take no for an answer.
[706] But I love that so many times I see, and it's in all your work, but in defending your life, there's so many times where you just, you can't let things go.
[707] You want to know, you want to know.
[708] no more.
[709] But that's Albert.
[710] And that is you.
[711] That is Albert.
[712] That is Albert.
[713] He doesn't let anything go.
[714] You know, he still has.
[715] I'm not going to do that show.
[716] No. I don't know what the joke is, but if you think you shouldn't do it, don't.
[717] That instinct is usually correct.
[718] But you know, you were talking about the Tonight Show.
[719] I don't know.
[720] I never got a straight answer, but there was like four years that I was on that are gone.
[721] And I never repeated a bit ever.
[722] So I, I think of some of those bits.
[723] I did a bit once that was, I loved so much, and I was hoping, but it was in those years that were gone.
[724] You know what happened, though, right?
[725] It's a famous.
[726] Well, I heard two stories, a fire or they taped over?
[727] No, no, it's what, I mean, a fire would be somewhat excusable.
[728] They taped over?
[729] What happened was someone, I'm going to hear the answer?
[730] Which bit was it?
[731] I want to know the bit.
[732] I'm going to tell you, but what happened?
[733] But Albert's directing now.
[734] Is this one old's awkward silences that you're talking about?
[735] It's becoming it.
[736] Look, we're letting the tension to build.
[737] But you commented on it.
[738] Then I brought the silence.
[739] Did they tape over?
[740] I was going to get to it in my own time and in my own way.
[741] But now I feel rushed and rattled and rightly intimidated by Albert Brooks, as I knew I would be.
[742] Let's go to the Sinatra.
[743] Apparently, all the tapes were preserved.
[744] They were in a warehouse that was in like New Jersey.
[745] And a bean counter said, we've got all these tapes.
[746] Hey, what's this for here?
[747] and they're like, that's storage.
[748] Those are all the old tonight shows from 63 to, I don't, 76.
[749] Those are all of the tonight shows.
[750] Why are, are the tapes still good?
[751] Yeah, the tapes are good.
[752] Well, erase them.
[753] Let's reuse them.
[754] So one person, now I talked to Rick Ludwin, who worked on Johnny Carson's Tonight Show, and he said, it wasn't Rick, but he said, I know there was a guy who had to go to Johnny and say, all your work from 19.
[755] six, like, you're in, you, you, you, you, you, uh, with your idol, Jack Benny, you with all these, it's all gone so that they could put some I dream of genies on a, on a tape.
[756] And, um, that's a funny reference, Sonia.
[757] You'll enjoy it later.
[758] Uh, okay.
[759] Look it up.
[760] I'll enjoy it later.
[761] I'll think about it.
[762] You'll think about it.
[763] Google it.
[764] But, not much later.
[765] There's a, there was a clip.
[766] There was a clip.
[767] It's all gone.
[768] There was a clip.
[769] Well, I don't think it was 63.
[770] I mean, because I, but, but.
[771] But.
[772] But I'll tell you this.
[773] Intermittently, you mean.
[774] No, but you know what I'll tell you?
[775] I will tell you that the clips that tended to survive were ones that Johnny, if it's like the Ed Ames or something like that, he would say, oh, my, get me one of those so I can show it to people at the house.
[776] Now, when you said the Ed Ames, does your audience know?
[777] Of course not.
[778] They know what the Ed is?
[779] I'm talking down to my audience now.
[780] I'm above them on a cloud and they're in the mud.
[781] If you don't know Ed Ames.
[782] No, it's a famous Tomahawk throw.
[783] And I think it's from 63.
[784] And he hit his cock.
[785] crotch of the dummy.
[786] And it looked like a penis.
[787] And it looked like a penis with an erection.
[788] And Johnny's dying laughing and I think he calls it Frontier Briss.
[789] A huge laugh.
[790] You can tell it was an accident and it was the original viral moment.
[791] My biggest fear in all of the universe is that I die and there is a heaven and God says to me I can see your cock.
[792] Wait, but why you specifically?
[793] Why is, you know, Or you, I don't care.
[794] But anyway, I did this one bit that was really great.
[795] Remember the Ed Sullivan plates?
[796] Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[797] You had to get all the plates at one time spinning.
[798] So I brought out five people, and I said to the audience, I'm going to tempt something that's never been done.
[799] I'm going to start, and I'm going to make this gentleman laugh, and I'm going to go down, and if it happens correctly, at the end, all five will be laughing together.
[800] And so I started And there was music But he was talking to their ears You didn't hear what I said I would talk to them And it was only a specific joke for them And the first guy would go And I'd go to the next guy And then the first guy would start to go Oh And I'd run back and say something But he would go over again It's a great bit We couldn't find it It didn't like that it's erased The other thing we couldn't find Is my father went on the tonight show And actually said that Albert Brooks was the funniest He said Albert Einstein.
[801] Albert Einstein at the time.
[802] Your real name, Albert Einstein.
[803] Was the funniest person he knew.
[804] Johnny said, who do you like these days?
[805] When I was 16.
[806] When you were 16 years old, you get name checked by Johnny on the Tonight Show.
[807] We couldn't find that clip either.
[808] What a thrill.
[809] This I have to bring up, which is the similarities, you're good friends, you've been good friends since high school.
[810] And there are some similarities, both your fathers in the business.
[811] You lost your father at an early age.
[812] you know it's a it's a very sad story um he died performing at a friars club yeah roast on stage park your carcass and uh um you that was a loss that clearly had a huge effect on you yeah obviously yeah he says something in in the documentary that i didn't know and when i heard it i couldn't believe it he said that when he was a kid he used to go to sleep with the radio on and his mother would come in while he was sleeping and turn it off at night.
[813] And one morning he woke up and the radio was still on.
[814] It was like three in the morning.
[815] Three in the morning he woke up and he said he knew at that point that his father had died.
[816] Because your father had been sickly.
[817] Yeah, but he was sick my whole life.
[818] You know, he was healthier from my brothers, but by the time I was born, it was not good and he had trouble walking.
[819] So for my life, he was ill, always ill. So I was always worried about it.
[820] So it wasn't like a premonition.
[821] I thought this was happening every day.
[822] I had heard about it, and then you and I got to have a dinner once, and you told me the story, and it's absolutely unbelievable.
[823] He was on the Friars Club deus, and it's 1958, and he destroys.
[824] I mean, absolutely destroys, and he's the hit of the night.
[825] You can listen to it.
[826] Yes, I listen to it.
[827] And then he goes back, and he sits down at his seat and passes away.
[828] And it's weird because it's the thing that comedians talk about sometimes, almost in a wistful way, like I'd love to kill in front of a crowd and then just quickly go.
[829] And what I'm always amazed at is that he finished, you know, because it could happen on the way up to the mic.
[830] It could happen during, but he finished.
[831] So that's the coolest part.
[832] And then they tried to save the evening.
[833] The insane part, they said that your father, they're working on him.
[834] Backstage.
[835] Backstage.
[836] Milton Burrell says to a singer at the time, Tony Martin, go up there and sing.
[837] Had the number one hit in America.
[838] And he says, sing, sing.
[839] And Milton Burl didn't know what the song was.
[840] He He says, go sing your hit, go sing your hit.
[841] Tony Martin stands up, and he sang, and his hit was called, There's No Tomorrow.
[842] Oh, Jesus.
[843] Oh, God.
[844] There's no tomorrow.
[845] While they're working on your dad, in the back.
[846] Oh, my God.
[847] Good God.
[848] And now, your father, of course, lived wonderful, I think, 170 years.
[849] Yeah, and I got to know him.
[850] He was such a beautiful man, such a lovely man, so encouraging and absolutely lovely.
[851] The first time he came on my late night show, he came out and he said, this is my first time on the show, so I'm going to mark my territory.
[852] So he walked around to the back of the show, miming, peeing it.
[853] But I don't think my crowd knew what mark your territory meant.
[854] And he sat down and it had gotten nothing.
[855] And he went, well, that completely didn't work.
[856] And that was my favorite part.
[857] My favorite part was him just saying that, you know, because any bit where you have to get up, leave the...
[858] There's the perfect example.
[859] Was Carl walking around, mocking, peeing great, or the fact that your audience didn't like it, was it shitty?
[860] Or didn't understand it.
[861] Yeah, yeah.
[862] I'd say it was great.
[863] Last night, I was at CBS where we shot all in the family and all this stuff.
[864] And they had a special for Dick Van Dyke, who was 98.
[865] And I opened the thing and introduced it and talked about how the first pilot of the Van Dyke show was my dad did it.
[866] He started and it was called Head of the Family and it didn't sell.
[867] And Sheldon Leonard, who was producing the show, said, the script is great.
[868] We just need to find a better you.
[869] Enter Dick Van Dyck.
[870] And I tell that story.
[871] I told that story at the beginning.
[872] You know, it's funny, I've seen the footage of the original Dick Van Dyke show, which didn't have Dick Van Dyke.
[873] I've seen the footage of your dad in that role, and it looks insane.
[874] Yeah.
[875] Because it's like if someone showed you Casablanca, but instead of Humphrey Bogart, you know.
[876] Ed Wynn.
[877] Yeah, exactly, going, ooh.
[878] Doesn't that sound like a Sinatra song he never recorded?
[879] We just need to find a better you.
[880] Yes.
[881] A better you.
[882] So he was, was he encouraging of you being in comedy?
[883] Was he worried for you?
[884] He didn't say anything.
[885] He never said yes or no. And so I never knew.
[886] I mean, I didn't know.
[887] It wasn't until I was like 19, and I directed a production of no exit of all things.
[888] John Paul Sart, Richard Dreyfus was in it.
[889] And that was the first time I ever got anything from my dad, where he came backstage and he says, That was good.
[890] No bullshit.
[891] And he looked me in the eye and said that.
[892] So the only time he ever gave me any kind of encouragement.
[893] And I went to visit him at the house, had his house then the next day.
[894] And he said, I'm not worried about you.
[895] You're going to be okay.
[896] Whatever you want to do.
[897] But that was, that was a wordy 19.
[898] I saw something.
[899] I mentioned this to you once.
[900] And I feel like I fail because I can't find it.
[901] But somewhere I saw footage.
[902] Because briefly, you were part of a doubles act.
[903] You were partnered with Joey Bishop's son.
[904] Yeah, Larry Bishop.
[905] Larry Bishop and someone with like a super rate camera right after you've done a show, maybe it's 1968, 69, takes you out onto a fire escape and interviews both of you.
[906] Wow.
[907] And they're talking to both of you about you having famous dads.
[908] I saw this thing and I thought, well, surely you've seen this.
[909] And then you said you've never seen it.
[910] I've never seen it.
[911] And Larry and I opened at the Hungry Eye for Carmen McCrae.
[912] and we were booked into all those nightclubs, the ones, you know, the rooster tail in Detroit, Mr. Kelly's in Chicago, Paul's Mall, the Bitter End.
[913] We were booked into everyone.
[914] And after that run, he said, I can't do this.
[915] By the way, before that in high school, I had an act with Larry.
[916] Yeah.
[917] And this is funny, Al and Larry, we were in high school.
[918] And there was no such thing as an improv or any place, a guy on Coenga named Laird -Brook -Schmidt.
[919] He looked like Ernie Kovacs.
[920] He opened his house.
[921] He called it Laird's Laird.
[922] So you could...
[923] You think it was a lot.
[924] If that's not a pedophile.
[925] No. No. Here was the rule.
[926] Creeps right now all over America are hearing this going, that's it!
[927] It's a comedy club!
[928] Here was the rule.
[929] You could perform there if you brought the audience.
[930] So Larry and I had to bring our friends from high school who heard the same bits at lunch.
[931] This time they had to pay $5 and sit in a guy's house.
[932] It's in a living room.
[933] It's the same thing.
[934] And they're looking at us like, oh, okay, but what is this?
[935] This was lunch.
[936] And, you know, well, it's a club.
[937] And it was a guy's house.
[938] First thing I've ever seen in this city that even got strangers together at a person's house.
[939] And how long did that guy's thing last?
[940] Till he came.
[941] He had a very strange proclivity Very strange proclivity Comedy got him off That was That was Robert Redford hitting the lights and the natural He's slowly Albert's going around the bases The music's playing All is coming down Oh my God We'll be right back.
[942] You know what I will say has had a big effect on me as a human being is the message behind defending your life, the movie about fear.
[943] People who move on to a higher plane are the ones that were less afraid in their life.
[944] I think about that a lot.
[945] It's very profound and probably has influenced me more.
[946] Are you frightened?
[947] Do you have any fears that you need?
[948] to overcome.
[949] Yeah, many, many fears.
[950] And I just, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I think, because I haven't gotten over mine, but I see facing that tribunal and saying, but I made the movie.
[951] Doesn't it, doesn't that count for something?
[952] Come on, man. You're sitting in the same chair.
[953] Yeah.
[954] Saying, I made, look, I did this.
[955] I mean, let me go on.
[956] I made this.
[957] Doesn't count.
[958] But I, I don't know.
[959] That's a very, that's a very, that really.
[960] spoke to me that taking risks, doing things, and we're not here long.
[961] No, and we're also, it's one of those things we're stuck with from the original humans.
[962] You know, we're stuck with a lot of things we don't need.
[963] And that's one of those primordal feelings that you needed in a world we don't live in.
[964] The tiger and the lion.
[965] Yes, and the things that you would be afraid of, and especially in a world where the sky looks like 18, hundred gods.
[966] I mean, everything is scary.
[967] You don't know anything.
[968] So I don't think that, you know, we've adopted very well to what there is to be afraid of and what there isn't.
[969] Not that there isn't shit to be afraid of, but sometimes you feel it all the time and it's not necessary all the time.
[970] I heard a fact once that I, the human mind is fascinated by the most recent and interesting way to die and puts that right at the top of the list.
[971] So if when COVID came along, everyone said, oh, my God, it's COVID.
[972] If I can avoid COVID, I'll be fine.
[973] Suddenly, everything else, colon cancer, lung cancer, heart attacks, car accidents, falling, disappeared.
[974] We are, we love to move what's the latest thing to the top of the list.
[975] You know, after 9 -11, it was if I can get on a plane and land safely, I'll be okay.
[976] Right, right.
[977] And that's our tendency and it goes back millions of years.
[978] But I think we have news for people.
[979] They're going to die at some.
[980] point of something.
[981] That's the news.
[982] It's always trying to localize it to be able to understand it.
[983] That's why.
[984] Because, you know, there's too many things to think about otherwise.
[985] Well, this gets to, I had a conversation with Albert once.
[986] And at the time, I was saying to Albert, I've done some stuff I really like that really makes me laugh.
[987] And I've worked with some really brilliant people.
[988] And I've got this body of work that I'm proud of, but it's television.
[989] I said, you've, and this is both of you, you've made movies, and I was saying that, those last, what I've done is I said, I'm in the disposable, I'll never forget, I said, I'm in the disposable pen business.
[990] I think I've made a lot of good big pens.
[991] They were used and they've been tossed out.
[992] But you've made movies, which I put on this whole other level.
[993] And Albert, with great conviction, was saying, you don't understand.
[994] None of it matters.
[995] And I. I had this fight 30 years ago with Rob, because I remember it, maybe 20 years ago, Rob at the time was saying that the great movie stars of the, when movie stars were the Carrie Grants, the card, they will always be remembered.
[996] And I said, nobody will always be remembered.
[997] Nobody in the movies.
[998] Maybe Hitler, maybe Einstein, maybe Elvis Presley.
[999] But that's about it.
[1000] Yeah.
[1001] But the thing is, you did things, you made people laugh.
[1002] And people will come up to you and say, that made me laugh.
[1003] So you made somebody feel good.
[1004] Well, you know what?
[1005] You know, it's all the same.
[1006] I took what Albert said as it calmed me. It made me feel better.
[1007] Now, most people, now, it's total coincidence.
[1008] Shortly after that, I did some interview, I think, with someone at the New York Times, and they were telling me, you know, what do you think about your legacy?
[1009] And I said, it doesn't matter.
[1010] And then I quoted, you know, Albert.
[1011] And I said, you know, Albert Brooks told me none of this matters.
[1012] and I said it as the good news.
[1013] The good news is I think I've had good intent.
[1014] I've tried.
[1015] I keep trying.
[1016] And then I'm gone.
[1017] But the thing that was fascinating about it was that so briefly, Conan and Albert were trending as goth.
[1018] That we were goth.
[1019] And I was like, well, no, we're not.
[1020] This isn't, I don't think of this as a doomsday thing.
[1021] No, because it does, it matters at the time.
[1022] At that moment.
[1023] At that moment it matters.
[1024] matters right that's just a minute you know it's that's what it is i saw i got to ask to write a thing uh about johnny carson once so i did this research and i read a 1980 profile in rolling stone magazine of johnny carson and in it johnny's moaning and bitching about how all the big stars are gone he said there are no big stars anymore he said we've you know and he's talking about you know groucho's gone bogart bogart's gone you know all the people you know all the people they're all gone and who's left there's nobody and I'm thinking what do you I mean everyone thinks yeah everybody's perspective and my perspective was well I came along in 93 but boy what if I could have talked to Jimmy Cagney all that you well no don't be stupid there are so many people now that come up to me and say oh my god you got to talk to all these people for almost 30 years who are gone now who were giants and I think at the time that's not how I thought about it yeah yeah and I knew but you know something oddly enough there are no stars anymore.
[1025] Well, that's not true.
[1026] No. That's not true.
[1027] Wait a minute.
[1028] Margot Robbie is a star.
[1029] No, but wait a minute.
[1030] There's no reason Bob Cruz is a star.
[1031] Right.
[1032] There's no question about it.
[1033] Tom Cruise is a star.
[1034] Right.
[1035] But the way in which we thought of stars, they're not people that carry pictures that you go to see because that person is in the movie.
[1036] You'd go because that person, right now you've got Taylor Swift in music and Tom Cruise.
[1037] Who else would you?
[1038] I have to go.
[1039] Well, his last mission didn't do that well.
[1040] We weren't so happy with it.
[1041] I'm just being the guy from Parano.
[1042] Use someone else, please.
[1043] Because these numbers are devastating.
[1044] No, I mean, I'm telling you, when you see Barbie is the example of a modern movie star.
[1045] But Barbie was the star.
[1046] But no, but she's great.
[1047] Don't get me wrong.
[1048] I love Bargo Robbie.
[1049] I'm telling you, I think another person.
[1050] person in that, the movie would not have been the same.
[1051] You mean Ruth Buzzy?
[1052] From westerly, Rhode Island, Ruth Buzzy.
[1053] Don't ask me why I know that.
[1054] It's different.
[1055] But those guys, the Humphrey Bogarts, they made 11 movies an hour.
[1056] You know, they were just making them.
[1057] Yeah.
[1058] It wasn't even about, they made so many movies that that's why you went to see them.
[1059] It wasn't out of the blue Casablanca came and everybody went.
[1060] It was just the 18th movie he made.
[1061] made that year.
[1062] And that was their 11th choice.
[1063] Yeah.
[1064] That was called Bogart.
[1065] It was called television.
[1066] Yeah.
[1067] That's what they did.
[1068] Yeah.
[1069] But there was that period that we were, you know, brought into, there were people, they said he'll open a picture.
[1070] You get this person or that person, and they will open the picture, meaning you'll get a good first weekend.
[1071] And there was a list of people.
[1072] And now what opens a picture is, you know, action, superheroes, that opens a picture.
[1073] But the star itself doesn't open the picture.
[1074] Yeah, we may have crossed into a thing where the actual picture opens the picture.
[1075] Yeah.
[1076] I mean, the Marvel world is a little bit different than what's freeing now.
[1077] That's that they're having trouble.
[1078] Well, we don't know.
[1079] Yeah, they're struggling.
[1080] Yeah, they're struggling.
[1081] Yeah, they're struggling.
[1082] I read a treatment for Uncle Marvel that was the ability to Kavetch.
[1083] And what was the story?
[1084] What was the story?
[1085] What was the story for?
[1086] for Uncle Marvel.
[1087] Like he said, it was a reluctant guy.
[1088] I don't know if I should.
[1089] This don't even fit anymore.
[1090] How do you breathe in this fucking thing?
[1091] We got the testing back from Uncle Marvin.
[1092] She's hot.
[1093] Literally.
[1094] Damn.
[1095] It has to be satisfying to both of you that nothing ages like comedy and you've both done all this work that, you know, if I talk to an 18 -year -old comedy nerd, they will look at your stuff and say, this is genius, this is brilliant, this is terrific.
[1096] That has got to be a good feeling.
[1097] Even you have to feel good.
[1098] Well, you're just telling me this now.
[1099] I don't know who is.
[1100] you talk to they're not smart people they're idiots call me once in a while I love that this is a little tidbit I think I can share which is you had me over to your house Rob to watch the documentary and then you confided in me as the lights were going down Albert may come by if people if this goes over well if this goes over well and I got the sense that he was circling the neighborhood in a car like a shark but he wanted to hear how it went over and then the lights came up And the first thing I said to you is, I think you can call Albert and you came over, which was sweet.
[1101] I wasn't circling.
[1102] I don't live far.
[1103] And I, I. But you were nervous.
[1104] You were on the roof.
[1105] The truth is, there were six other screenings and I was driving like mad that night, circling 18 houses.
[1106] Well, this has been an absolute thrill, delight.
[1107] It checks every single box.
[1108] I think I'm getting out of the business, gentleman, which was your aim.
[1109] I think when you came here.
[1110] It was fun.
[1111] Let me make sure I mentioned, too, because I did say I want to mention that you have a podcast.
[1112] Yes.
[1113] And we have many people listen to this.
[1114] So let's get the word out on yours.
[1115] Yeah, no, it's who killed JFK.
[1116] You can get it anywhere you get your podcast.
[1117] And it's basically commemorates the 60th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination.
[1118] And there's 10 episodes.
[1119] They drop every Wednesday.
[1120] And I think if you listen to all 10, you will get 60 years of information will be put in a place that you can kind of of understand what happened on that day.
[1121] And by the way, like me, he has assembled some hysterical bits from JFK.
[1122] Yeah.
[1123] We have one.
[1124] People don't know.
[1125] JFK did a lot of good the grassy know.
[1126] What was that one?
[1127] I had a bit I was nowhere to do it I was working on and that's that if Walter Cronkite were working today and this happened, let me do 30 seconds of it.
[1128] And to 10 a .m., it's official John F. Kennedy, assassinated in Dallas.
[1129] Let's go to our panel at the end from the Lincoln Motor Company, Jack Ryan, well -known Gardner, Javier Martinez from Winchester, Paul Allen.
[1130] Let me start at the end with the Lincoln.
[1131] Why it was 74 degrees, is that when you suggest the top should be down?
[1132] Well, Walter, at Lincoln, we don't really make the rules, But we say to the customer, we're above 80.
[1133] So it was too cold.
[1134] It shouldn't have been down.
[1135] Paul, how far can the Winchester?
[1136] Well, first let me ask, Cavier.
[1137] Talk to me about the grassy no. How often is that mo?
[1138] Yeah, it's a 24 -hour news site.
[1139] It doesn't have that same impact.
[1140] This is probably too dark But I've had a thought in my mind Which is what if Zepruder had gone on to make other films And that was a comedy bad idea I had And he comes out with other films And he's they don't they're not They don't have anything to do with that And the critics are killing him Because it doesn't have the impact of his first film And then he's enraged Like why am I constantly being judged on my first film?
[1141] I'm being typecast I'm being pigeonholed He starts, as his films sell less and less, he starts going back to you.
[1142] There is a motorcade, even though it doesn't fit the story at all.
[1143] That's a bit that I've had that I've been afraid to talk about out loud.
[1144] Christmas Vacation 5 from Abraham Zabruder.
[1145] You know, it's lacking the impact of the gentleman, God bless you both.
[1146] And that's a Christian god.
[1147] Yeah.
[1148] Even though today's a, you know, Tonica.
[1149] I know, but it's my studio.
[1150] have a happy Catholic Christmas, both of you, filled with Jesus, Son of God, eternally begot on the Father, God from God, life from life, true God from true God, from true God, begott and not made it when I'm being with the Father.
[1151] Sold.
[1152] Thank you, fellas.
[1153] Thank you.
[1154] Thank you.
[1155] Goodbye.
[1156] Conan O 'Brien needs a friend.
[1157] With Conan O 'Brien, Sonam of Sessian, and Matt Goreley.
[1158] Produced by me, Matt Gorman.
[1159] Executive produced by Adam Sacks, Nick Liao, and Jeff Ross at Team Coco, and Colin Anderson and Cody Fisher at Earwolf.
[1160] Theme song by The White Stripes.
[1161] Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino.
[1162] Take it away, Jimmy.
[1163] Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair, and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples.
[1164] Engineering by Eduardo Perez.
[1165] Additional production support by Mars Melnik.
[1166] Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista, and Britt Kahn.
[1167] You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts, and you might be able to.
[1168] find your review read on a future episode.
[1169] Got a question for Conan?
[1170] Call the Team Coco hotline at 669 -587 -2847 and leave a message.
[1171] It too could be featured on a future episode.
[1172] And if you haven't already, please subscribe to Conan O 'Brien needs a friend wherever fine podcasts are downloaded.