DUBBED: 104 - Garden Party

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Warning, the following episode deals with mature and disturbing themes, including murder, doomsday cults, hit men for hire, and explicit language.

[2] But listener discretion is not advised because we dubbed it all out.

[3] Now you can listen to this podcast in front of children, in the car with your mother -in -law or at a public pool.

[4] Please note, no cults were joined in the making of this episode.

[5] Enjoy mother French horn.

[6] Dubbed.

[7] Center yourself?

[8] Yes.

[9] Are you centered?

[10] I feel like I might be.

[11] Or are you in the center?

[12] I'm kind of, I'm a little sideways.

[13] A little wonky?

[14] I might be a little wanky.

[15] That's because this is my favorite murder.

[16] The podcast with the consistently worst opening in the history of podcasts.

[17] You know, we invite you in slowly with awkwardness.

[18] Right.

[19] By making you want to turn it off.

[20] But, but you stick around because you're like, maybe this could get worse.

[21] That's, that's Karen Kilgariff.

[22] That sigh is Karen Kilgariff.

[23] And that, and that fake sigh is Georgia Hardstark.

[24] Hi.

[25] Hi, we're here to talk to you about true crime and all the things that we have now associated with two crime.

[26] Which is everything.

[27] Which pretty much anything.

[28] Anything, everything, all of it.

[29] The thing I'm loving now is just consistent pictures of.

[30] old razor blade holes in people's bathroom cabinet like 2018 is all about Starbucks hidden in walls yes and especially if you have an old time you medicine cabinet go check yours I bet there's so many people listening like what are you flopping talking about yeah go downstairs I don't know if you're upstairs I don't know why your bathroom's downstairs wait first of all why are you upstairs go downstairs someone's in their car right now they don't know so go upstairs Go upstairs.

[31] To the double -decker bus.

[32] You know.

[33] The double -decker bus driver.

[34] How you do it.

[35] Go upstairs.

[36] Go upstairs to your mansion.

[37] Go into the bathroom.

[38] Why don't you have a bathroom upstairs?

[39] Yeah, that's so weird.

[40] Everyone does.

[41] And why don't you?

[42] Do you, and then open your cabinet and is there a thing that says razors can go in here or whatever?

[43] Funnel cake.

[44] An old -timey font.

[45] Yes.

[46] Is there a little old -fashioned hole that seems haunted and could have bloody remnants of somebody in it?

[47] So much DNA.

[48] So much.

[49] vintage DNA.

[50] Ooh, that would be fun.

[51] And just maybe you stare at it for a couple hours, then you start to pull at it.

[52] And you write a book of short stories about every person who's put a razor into that stuffing.

[53] First, it's an old guy, then it's a young guy.

[54] And it's a lady shaving her legs.

[55] Yes.

[56] Can we get a woman?

[57] Why is the patriarchy taking over your book of short stories?

[58] Never forget.

[59] Women shave way more than men.

[60] So much more.

[61] We're just all of our bodies.

[62] Face and legs.

[63] All of it.

[64] Listen, when you get to be 30 -something, you're going to shave your face, too.

[65] One of my favorite tweets is our friend Morgan Murphy, hilarious comedian, Morgan Murphy.

[66] She has my favorite tweet of all time, which is your girlfriend shaves her toes.

[67] Just like...

[68] Splat?

[69] Yeah, just a little drop of hardcore information.

[70] That's good.

[71] Sorry, it's the truth.

[72] That's like a, like an Italian.

[73] Yep, just get it done real quick.

[74] You don't need 240 characters to get the good stuff going.

[75] Mm -mm.

[76] Mm -mm.

[77] Amen.

[78] You know, I had to take the, like, close -up mirror down from my wall in the bathroom, the, like, look at this mirror, real close at all the hairs and stuff.

[79] I had to take it down.

[80] I only, I save that special occasion, hotel rooms only.

[81] Good call.

[82] But then you're like, what is wrong with me?

[83] I know.

[84] And you look at your face and you're like, why isn't I even told me?

[85] But when I was growing up, we got those for Christmas one year.

[86] My sister and I, when I was like 14 and she was 16.

[87] Because your mom was like, girls.

[88] She, it was someone else that gave me to us.

[89] Holy gravy.

[90] And we, I used.

[91] I used to.

[92] I used to.

[93] And we, I used to.

[94] I, you know, I was.

[95] I, to sit at my desk in my room with the lights out and that thing on it, like, switching it.

[96] You know how it would be like day, evening, night, whatever, evening and night are the same.

[97] But not on this mirror.

[98] It was like, one was green, one was bright.

[99] One was like really pinky rosy.

[100] What if you're after, like, what if you're at like a late afternoon tonight party?

[101] Like that evening is going to come and you're going to need to look your best.

[102] You're going to have to.

[103] Yeah, you have to adjust your eyebrow plucking to the light.

[104] Or men will never love you.

[105] and you'll never find a husband.

[106] Never find a man. You will not land a man at this garden party unless you pluck your chin correctly.

[107] Your Jessica and McClintock dress can only get you so far.

[108] And that pretty up to, that permed up to.

[109] You better get your list of topics to talk about in small talk conversations.

[110] And you better shave your upper lip or thread it or do something.

[111] Something.

[112] Don't forget about those nose hairs because that's reality.

[113] Oh, girl.

[114] Here's the worst one.

[115] Oh, no. as well, I'll just catch a random black neck hair.

[116] Yeah, yeah, I got the chin.

[117] I got the chin.

[118] You take the neck.

[119] You'll take the chin.

[120] Neck might be like the next stage up since I'm like a whole generation older than you.

[121] Question, is it going up or down?

[122] I feel like it might be going down.

[123] Oh, no. No, it's horrible.

[124] You're in for a treat.

[125] I'm in for the night.

[126] That's why I do not leave my house.

[127] I can't trust my neck.

[128] I don't know what's coming out of there.

[129] Ever.

[130] Anyway, what we're talking about?

[131] Oh, yeah, you got the mirror.

[132] Just, I would stare into it and pluck my eyebrows and look at my pores for so long that my dad would just keep walking by my bedroom door going, Zzz, you would make a noise like it was a bug light, and I was like a praying mantis caught on a bug light.

[133] He was like, look at the bug light.

[134] You're not helping.

[135] They never helped.

[136] No, why would they?

[137] They want you to suffer so you don't get an ego.

[138] Well, it's flapping.

[139] Worked.

[140] and like reach great heights or whatever you know why because then you're going to fall further you're welcome 14 year old karen see it doesn't hurt as bad when you don't climb as high when you stumble upwards it's better than when you climb upwards that's right right or or sore upwards right oh that takes so much ever that's for the rich that's for like people who don't have friends or like time for friends yeah time for pets yeah that's for people who are like oh I'm a concert clarinetist.

[141] Well, congratulations.

[142] Go do that then by yourself.

[143] I can't have a dog or a cat.

[144] I just, I'm never home.

[145] I'm working all hours.

[146] And it's like, well, then you're living your life wrong.

[147] Yeah.

[148] You need a pet.

[149] Bring it with you.

[150] Bring it to the symphony with you.

[151] Yeah.

[152] Let's teach it to barking.

[153] Play a horn instrument.

[154] Wait, speaking of which can I tell you sidebar that I took my dogs to the dog beach.

[155] Yeah, which is like, I'm so jealous.

[156] I can't take my cats to the dog beach.

[157] You shouldn't.

[158] They would not have a good time.

[159] But although it is one big cat box, really, I bet they'd be like, whoa.

[160] Nope.

[161] I don't think that would happen.

[162] Everywhere we go is in potluck.

[163] But because it had rained so crazy down here, there was so much garbage and seaweed on the beach.

[164] Frank was like in heaven.

[165] It was like a mini beach garbage dump.

[166] What was in there?

[167] Well, there was one whole huge fish.

[168] No way.

[169] We walked by just a big dead fish.

[170] That's so cool.

[171] Then there was lots of what looked.

[172] It was pieces.

[173] a plastic that looked like they were from legs panty hose containers like the eggs where you're like why are there so many plastic eggs around then there was like a basically an IKEA futon frame there's a little kid in the surf that was pushing out a huge like it looked like the gnarled base of an oak tree and he was just it was like mom where's his mom or dad they were like oh good a project you go do that in the in right in the riptide one word pathogens just everywhere.

[174] One small cut on your foot.

[175] One tiny cut.

[176] Do you watch House?

[177] Go watch House.

[178] They'll never trace that disease.

[179] I know.

[180] All those beautiful young doctors on the beach.

[181] Oh, my God.

[182] And there was like oil.

[183] It was really dirty and I took my feet.

[184] I took my shoes off and then I was like.

[185] No, Karen.

[186] I didn't think about it until like 45 minutes in.

[187] And I was like, oh, I'm, there's no way I'm not going to have some crazy mystery rash.

[188] This podcast is going to change to my favorite staff infection.

[189] like tonight get your friendly beat off my couch everything's covered i keep everything in surgical booties until i'm cleared two weeks cleared this is what happens when you leave the house but what would your favorite staff infection be oh god there's a lot there's so many good ones i really do love foreign bodies foreign bodies i like a good jump on a rusty nail oh i did that once in sixth grade i don't like that it was intense but i think i did it because I was at a slumber party that I didn't want to be at.

[190] It was very intensely Christian.

[191] I was like, I've got to get out of here.

[192] And the next thing I knew, I was like jumping in a field and I landed on a rusty nail.

[193] I was like, well, it looks like I got to go.

[194] My mom.

[195] Unless we can break into your parents' liquor cabinet and just pour some alcohol on this or wherever.

[196] I think I need to be driven away from here.

[197] Whatever the medical procedure is, it's not going to take place on this.

[198] It's not, it's not praying over my foot.

[199] No. It's not going to be with your weird Christian records.

[200] Got to go.

[201] Love the Lord.

[202] See you at school.

[203] But I can't handle this.

[204] I'm watching a show on Netflix.

[205] Yes.

[206] You might be watching that everyone loves called The End of the Filthy World.

[207] No. Do you heard it?

[208] No. Oh, it's so good.

[209] What is it?

[210] Okay.

[211] It's like, okay, it's like if you took Harold and Maud.

[212] Anti -West Anderson.

[213] Anti.

[214] Like.

[215] Angry at Wes Anderson?

[216] Like anti.

[217] Like cute and like kitsy in that way.

[218] but like no shot is centered nothing is no it's okay maybe just west Anderson but like dark west Anderson okay got it okay and then like uh it's just like it's dark but like cute and cool it's like it's really good and there's murdery and there's these two young kids in it and they're like he looks like harold from harold and maud and she's super adorable and they maybe they murder someone we don't know like it's a really good show i love it should i read you the thing instead of telling you sure about it in my own special way.

[219] I feel like what you just did was very clear.

[220] Listen, if I say it's good, it's probably good.

[221] I mean, I feel like you're batting.

[222] I'd say eight for 10.

[223] Sure.

[224] Where'd I get, where'd I go wrong?

[225] You're going to say that.

[226] I don't know.

[227] I couldn't give you 10 out of 10.

[228] I just couldn't.

[229] Well, that's fair enough.

[230] Because I'm, again, I want you to climb.

[231] I want things to be hard.

[232] I want you to earn it.

[233] If you compliment someone without a little bit of a negativity in it, they're just going to not try anymore.

[234] That's right.

[235] They're going to get a big head.

[236] Uh -huh.

[237] And, you know, that's the worst thing that can happen.

[238] Right.

[239] Then they're going to show up at a filibuster garden party with hairs coming out of everywhere.

[240] Oh, look at me. I'm so pretty.

[241] I have a beard.

[242] No, this is wrong.

[243] What's happening.

[244] You're never going to find a husband.

[245] You're in your Jessica McClintahawk dress.

[246] You won't be loved.

[247] We'll grow old together.

[248] Oh, sure.

[249] You can wear that dress all you want.

[250] But the floral's not going to land you a man. It's not the florals.

[251] No, it's the clear chin.

[252] It's a smooth chin.

[253] and feminine chin.

[254] So shut up.

[255] Shut it.

[256] Georgia, what are we doing?

[257] I don't know.

[258] What do you have to talk about?

[259] Okay.

[260] Anything?

[261] Yeah, I do.

[262] Two weeks ago, the last in -person upstairs, what did we call this podcast when it's us?

[263] Not live.

[264] I talked about the Beast of Jersey.

[265] Somebody said, I was making conversation with somebody, and they were like, what was your last show about?

[266] They had never listened to the podcast.

[267] They were just trying to be polite.

[268] and I went into a synopsis of what the Beast of Jersey was all about and as I was saying it I was like stop talking now you were like oh they were being polite they don't want to know about the leather mask this person wore plastic weird rapey that they raped out of anyone they raped everyone they could get by themselves which is why I think people listen to this podcast and why you and I are doing it is that we realize we can't talk to anyone about it that's exactly right we all have to meet here if we want to have these These are not dinner conversations to meet your friend's new girlfriend.

[269] Okay.

[270] These are, this is like a podcast of I, I don't get the face of someone who isn't interested when I tell them about this.

[271] Isn't it cool?

[272] And then, but usually they, they like, they kill inside their own race and they didn't kill inside their own race anymore.

[273] And he did this.

[274] That's amazing.

[275] Nobody wants to know about that.

[276] That's in real life.

[277] People are like, uh, anyhow.

[278] She's.

[279] Did you hear about the bomb?

[280] Right.

[281] Um, so anyway.

[282] Yeah.

[283] But as some of you know, I did talk about the kind of cows because the islands we were talking about were Jersey and Guernsey.

[284] And so then I began to hold forth like a cow expert.

[285] You are.

[286] Because I am a C plus cow expert.

[287] That's how much I got it right.

[288] And I'm very angry and ashamed because I grew up amidst cows.

[289] I had to smell their Starbucks.

[290] Every day, it was all hay.

[291] and cows and alfalfa and non -stop dairy.

[292] So the fact that I got this wrong is both shaming and then also I'm not sure why I keep...

[293] I mean, proximity doesn't equal farm.

[294] Knowledge.

[295] Knowledge.

[296] Very true.

[297] Here we go.

[298] Are you ready?

[299] Always.

[300] This is from Gail.

[301] Okay, Gail.

[302] She gets right into it.

[303] You're absolutely right about the Jersey and Guernsey Cattle breeds coming from the islands and the English Channel, but a little not right about...

[304] Aw, that's so nice.

[305] A little not right.

[306] You're just a little not right.

[307] which is so accurate about what those cows look like.

[308] Jerseys are the smaller brown ones and their babies look like little deer.

[309] Little babies.

[310] They are the cutest.

[311] Even the groans are cute.

[312] Guernzies are brown and white cows and they aren't as common.

[313] The black and white cows are Holsteinsed.

[314] That's what I was talking about.

[315] Both jerseys and Guernsies are known for their rich and flavorful milk that is high in protein in butterfat, although the milk that you buy from the store has been standardized in its nutrient composition by removing fat.

[316] French.

[317] Adding it back in.

[318] The government.

[319] So the fat content.

[320] French.

[321] The government.

[322] So the fat content is most important for making other dairy products besides milk.

[323] Jerseys are particularly popular because even though they are small and don't make as much milk as larger cows, they are much more efficient.

[324] And making milk think of them as the Priuses of dairy cattle.

[325] And I will from now on.

[326] I'm a professor of dairy and animals.

[327] I was pretty tickled to hear you guys talk about cows while I was simultaneously listening to your podcast and scrambling to edit PowerPoints about cows before the semester starts.

[328] It's like her episode.

[329] It was like made for her.

[330] She's like, listen, I hate serial rapists.

[331] Yeah.

[332] But here's my chance to shine.

[333] But still, I found something I could love here.

[334] And that's what we try to do.

[335] This is what it's all about.

[336] And then she said, cheers to all and especially the pets, Gail.

[337] And then in parentheses it says, which in my case is a word.

[338] woman scientist's name.

[339] I don't know what that means.

[340] Oh, that's great.

[341] So thank you, Gail.

[342] Also, thank you, Sarah, Emma, Allie, and everyone who tweeted us this correction.

[343] We got emails from Sarah, Emma, and Allie also that were all equally as informative about cows.

[344] That's nice.

[345] So just so everybody knows.

[346] Jerseys are the prettiest cows.

[347] Guernsey's are, like, Jersey's less pretty sister.

[348] Oh, now we're going to get the cake mail from cows.

[349] I'm going for it.

[350] Holsteins are black and white cows, like, from an old country folk painting.

[351] And then the ones I grew up with were heifers, which are the orange and white ones.

[352] I believe they are.

[353] Or maybe that's...

[354] I have never known so much about cows in my life.

[355] And isn't it fun?

[356] Like, you can now take this straight to a dinner party.

[357] Yeah.

[358] Instead of talking about murder.

[359] You go straight into listing cows in their colors.

[360] You know how everyone loves to talk about.

[361] You just wait for a nice pause in the conversation.

[362] did you know the ones that look like there are jerseys they're heppers and then you got french the government french the government may i have that salt and pepper please um can i say correct to correct nobody really but just to read this hi ladies and then in presence he says stephen animals oh and this is called some montessori insight about georgia's dirty feet Uh -oh, here we go.

[363] Blah, blah, blah, really nice stuff.

[364] And then on episode 102, you mentioned attending Montessori schools, and Georgia recalls having a feet washing bucket.

[365] As a Montessori teacher, I was cackling in my car.

[366] This dirty feet scenario is totally not a fever dream.

[367] The goal of Montessori schools is to teach independence, life skills, and appreciation of nature.

[368] You were lucky enough to get to go outside and explore and learn, allowing those feet to get nasty.

[369] Bless your teacher for allowing the children to wash their feet.

[370] Water.

[371] So fun.

[372] We only have a hand washing station.

[373] I'm not nice enough to let my little ones take their shoes off outside.

[374] Anyways, thanks for all you do.

[375] Stay sexy.

[376] Wash those feet.

[377] Don't get murdered, Jamie.

[378] Well, Jamie, though, I bet that's smart because you don't want like a child staff infection.

[379] Don't step on.

[380] Blaming.

[381] Rusty nail.

[382] Do not.

[383] They'll jump on it just to get out of school.

[384] Oh, definitely.

[385] Lazy.

[386] Anyhow.

[387] Oh, I guess this last one, this is just a fun email.

[388] Yeah.

[389] It's Stephen pulled for us.

[390] Look and listen, David Fincher, is the subject line from Gina.

[391] Hi, ladies, an honorary lady, Stephen Raymore.

[392] Stephen's triumphantly raising his fists.

[393] So good.

[394] Was watching seven for the first time.

[395] First time.

[396] Such a good movie.

[397] You've had 29 years.

[398] I was watching seven for the first time and noticed this.

[399] And then she pulled a screen cap, and it's Morgan Freeman standing in front of Broad pit and the line he's saying to him is I want you to look and I want you to listen okay and then she back in the email says just saying has anyone ever seen Karen and Georgia in the same room as Morgan Freeman Karen and Morgan certainly share that deep distinguished voice oh my god lots of love plus some sloth greed gluttony etc Gina that's everyone so god dog funny if you haven't seen seven murderinos young murderinos go watch seven oh my God if you haven't seen seven creepy this conversation ends here yeah pause it pause it go check your go downstairs and check your uh medicine cabinet that's right go back upstairs go back upstairs to why is your tv upstairs and your bathroom's downstairs it seems inconvenient yeah because a basement bathroom and an attic tv room is just hard for the family is your house only a basement and an attic what does that mean or maybe you're a dr sus character do you have a hat where that machines that clean the house come out of it?

[400] Yeah.

[401] You might want to check your hat.

[402] Check your hat.

[403] And then check the hot dog.

[404] Government man. Yeah.

[405] Tell them about cows.

[406] Inform them.

[407] Who goes first this week?

[408] I think it's you, right?

[409] Did I go?

[410] But then we had a live episode.

[411] Oh, yeah, but didn't we say we were doing?

[412] We're not counting on?

[413] I think I'm first this week.

[414] I was counting on going first this week.

[415] Good, because I had to do it last week.

[416] Yeah.

[417] I find it to be a burden.

[418] Technically, yeah.

[419] Technically, yeah.

[420] technically you think a bird you think I think going first is better because then I can judging chill a shirt oh drink my sparkling wine oh you know what I mean yeah I do so but I can't go first every week because I would suck yeah that would so it does suck it's like you kind of have to get everything up off the ground right all right you set a tone yeah and then what I'm not trying to intimidate you but you really control the mood right now just kidding thumbs down oh no the thing too is what if what if this is your murder what if my murder is your murder and I go get her first.

[421] Then you don't have to go.

[422] I can't wait.

[423] Then I just sit back and go like, yes, girl, tell it.

[424] Yeah.

[425] Yeah, you forgot this part.

[426] Let me tell you this thing.

[427] Okay.

[428] It's bad.

[429] Bang.

[430] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[431] Absolutely.

[432] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[433] Exactly.

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[446] Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify .com slash murder.

[447] Important note, that promo code is all lowercase.

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[449] That's Shopify .com slash murder.

[450] Goodbye.

[451] Okay.

[452] And now we can start.

[453] Mm -hmm.

[454] All right.

[455] So I found this story and decided to do it and then found out that it is also an I survived episode.

[456] She's in an I survived episode.

[457] Yes.

[458] I love it.

[459] This is special for you.

[460] Thank you.

[461] So I watched the I survived episode.

[462] It was great.

[463] But also I got a lot like most of my information from a an article in the Willamette Week by Beth Slavic from 2016.

[464] So cool.

[465] Thank you, Beth.

[466] Good job.

[467] Yay.

[468] We're proud of you.

[469] Okay.

[470] So this is the story of Susan Coonhausen.

[471] Okay.

[472] Any bells yet?

[473] No. I feel like I'm like reading to the master.

[474] Can I just do a quick brag?

[475] Yeah.

[476] My sister said last weekend, I think it was, she was like, there's and I survived on, that's amazing right now.

[477] You need to watch it, a woman who escaped a serial killer.

[478] And I wrote back, does she have red hair and a green sweater?

[479] I've seen it already.

[480] And my sister goes, ooh, that was creepy.

[481] Because I know, I honestly have seen them all five times.

[482] I've seen maybe two.

[483] Okay.

[484] You're the queen of this.

[485] So I felt a little, but I think that this is, you know.

[486] Do you mind if I will listen to you?

[487] And guess the whole time.

[488] Yeah, I'll ring in when I think I know.

[489] That's what this podcast is.

[490] Yeah, girl.

[491] This podcast isn't be quiet while I tell you about the story.

[492] Could you please be quiet?

[493] Interrupt the Jiminy Cricket out of me with incorrect guesses.

[494] This is the one time.

[495] I've been interrupting you for two years straight.

[496] Yeah.

[497] But this is the one time we were like, could you please be quiet?

[498] This is in it, I survived.

[499] This is actually really.

[500] And wait.

[501] Literally two years straight today.

[502] That's right.

[503] It's our two year fun.

[504] Facts.

[505] Oh, my God.

[506] Of existing.

[507] Of existing.

[508] Of having real.

[509] Tadda.

[510] Personality.

[511] Having an interest that we shared that we thought this could possibly be interesting.

[512] First day of the rest of our lives.

[513] Insanely.

[514] Dude, two years.

[515] Happy birthday.

[516] to you.

[517] Hi -five, Georgia hard start.

[518] Thank you, you too, Karen, I'll give up.

[519] This is Paul Giamati.

[520] Podcasts would be going to Montessori.

[521] No, it wouldn't.

[522] That's too young, right?

[523] It's too young.

[524] But unless we're both working...

[525] Daycare.

[526] Working moms?

[527] Yeah.

[528] Listen, we get...

[529] Stephen, will you be this podcast, Nanny?

[530] Steven's a podcast nanny.

[531] Yeah, I would think so.

[532] Stephen, thank you.

[533] Yeah, I'll take care of you.

[534] Okay.

[535] You would be a manny, right?

[536] Oh, right, right, right, right.

[537] right um Stephen you came in what a year and a half we i mean like six months in my my i guess two year and course he knows what's there's a heart in his calendar oh yes it's like a little like in my locker it's like my two year anniversary is in may okay yeah well we're gonna say right now that we'll get you something for your two anniversary and then we won't but then we'll make up for it and it'll be even better.

[538] Yes.

[539] That's exactly all I could hope for.

[540] That's all you've ever wanted.

[541] That's how we do, right?

[542] Yeah, exactly.

[543] You know how we do.

[544] I love it.

[545] Yeah.

[546] Okay.

[547] All right.

[548] Susan Kuhnhausen.

[549] Okay.

[550] Here we go.

[551] On the evening of Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 51 -year -old emergency room nurse of nearly 30 years, Susan Kuhnhausen ended her shift at Providence Portland Medical Center and headed to her appointment at Perfect Look Hair Salon in East Burnside Street, on East Burnside Street.

[552] Portland, I guess you know what that is.

[553] You already know, don't you.

[554] No, no, no, I don't.

[555] I know that area, though, the Burnside District.

[556] Oh, okay.

[557] So, perfect look.

[558] It's our new hair salon.

[559] It's so good.

[560] It's so good.

[561] Susan had moved to Oregon in the early 80s.

[562] She settled in Portland and she was well liked by everyone and who knew her, of course.

[563] Everyone says she's outgoing vivacious.

[564] She's this amazing nurse.

[565] She's loved by everyone.

[566] In 1988, when she was in her early 30s, Susan, along with a friend and her mom's help, placed a singles ad in the Willamette Week, which is what this, I just realized, this article is from.

[567] Oh yeah.

[568] I didn't put it together.

[569] That's awesome.

[570] That's amazing.

[571] That's a very popular, uh, circular up there in Portland.

[572] I think it still exists.

[573] Yeah.

[574] Okay.

[575] Um, looking for, and so she placed a singles ad, which is how you used to find love.

[576] It's like before.

[577] Could you imagine?

[578] No. It's just like, oh, it's all like letters and numbers and like, I'm a tourist.

[579] Taurus.

[580] S -S -F -L -S -M -L looking for D I think my mom put one of those in in like Irvine Weekly or whatever in the 80s did she get me did she catch any good fish I'm sure she didn't Jesus the guys she dated were horrendous were they sickening no they were just like like single dads in the 80s were creeps yeah know what I mean a lot of transition lenses a lot of mustache yeah yeah all right this isn't about me okay or Janet it's always about Janet it's always about Janet okay so she wrote looking for quote someone different and then about herself she wrote overweight but not over life which I love so much there's your there's like that's a necklace instead of like live laugh love overweight but not over life not over life and then you kick a stranger in the dick as he's reading that yeah enticized by your necklace can you know the website Reductress that I'm just upset like they're sprankers you had lines make me laugh so hard and their articles it's like it's like the onion for women yes they're they have like a merch now and one of their they have a shirt that has an arrow and it's up to the arrow goes to your face and it says my vagina's up here they had one after the golden gloves that said zero quotes from men about the me too movement it's so good okay someone different overweight but not over life seeks SM who wants more out of a relationship than just quote slender girl yes wow and this is in the late 80s when none of these attitudes were allowed no you go to red flag jazz or size and you you diet and reduce where you're nothing and no one it's bulimia or bust everybody it was a hard time but then meanwhile we were being tricked into ingesting fake diet food that was actually filled with sugar so like we all thought new york seltzer was diet yeah and we're like this is so delicious and you drink like seven of them and it's just like drinking go right and then you scream at your kids yeah okay okay 39 year old mike coon hanson responded um and about him susan said quote he had a nice voice i was impressed he wanted to talk about deeper things which i wrote red flag you know no he doesn't he goes straight to poetry get out of there deeper things deeper than what than what okay their first day was in february 1988 mike was a mike was adopted as a newborn in 1948, grew up in Portland.

[581] He told Susan he saw combat in Vietnam, but military records list him as a switchboard operator.

[582] Within the year, they drove to Reno to get married.

[583] So she marries this dude, Mike Kuhn -Hausen.

[584] Okay.

[585] It quickly soured.

[586] She said, quote, it wasn't long after we - Wait a second.

[587] Don't give it away for the listeners at home.

[588] I won't.

[589] I think I know.

[590] Just say, give me a, give me like a keyword.

[591] She finds him in the house?

[592] No. Okay.

[593] But close.

[594] I think you do know.

[595] You're just not there yet.

[596] Okay.

[597] We got to get you a little further.

[598] And then you're like, yes.

[599] Okay.

[600] Do, no, no, it wasn't very long after we got married that there was no more hiking, no more going out.

[601] Yeah, because people say they're into Shark Week, that they're not into Shark Week.

[602] And then in a year, they're sick of you, which is why you need to start a relationship saying, I like to sit at home and binge watch.

[603] With my cats and get takeout.

[604] Yeah, what's past like topical weekend interest?

[605] That's the reality of the relationship.

[606] Nobody likes to hike.

[607] No, it's total dating bull splat.

[608] Stupid.

[609] It's really dumb.

[610] It's for single desperate, thirsty people.

[611] Literally in figure.

[612] Literally thirsty people.

[613] Okay.

[614] Within a few years of the wedding, Mike got a new job as a janitorial supervisor for Oregon Entertainment, the parent company of Fantasy Adelaide.

[615] adult video.

[616] So basically he started working for an adult video company as the janitor, which has to be like a bummer job.

[617] You don't come home from that kicking your heels and hugging your wife.

[618] Even if it's all paper products and like guys and ties, there is still a level of light scum, I would say.

[619] On everything.

[620] That he, that was his job just to mop off.

[621] Totally.

[622] Literally and figuratively.

[623] Yeah.

[624] Okay.

[625] So he starts slowly revealing to her in the early years that he'd never really been happy his life philosophy she says was life's a nasty sandwich and every day you take another bite until you die flipping thanks garfield Jesus Christ this is why everyone needs to go to therapy and get pharmaceuticals yes well not everyone but this guy clearly I mean it's just so sorry that's all of life to you yeah like you're not gonna you have that attitude and you're not going to do anything to change it like take a chill pill and by chill pill.

[626] I mean a flapping.

[627] Zola.

[628] Zion act.

[629] Lillium.

[630] Anything.

[631] Something.

[632] Help yourself.

[633] Okay.

[634] Mike Chain smoked.

[635] He also pounded Diet Cokes.

[636] Which is like, is that why are you being a dick about it?

[637] He was very controlling.

[638] He would hound Susan about her plans when she went out and he kept track of her spending and complained about all her purchases, which is like, shut up.

[639] I need to go to perfect look every two weeks.

[640] Or you're going to tell me I look like chips and dips and dip.

[641] Yes, exactly.

[642] Also, she is an emergency room nurse.

[643] Yeah.

[644] She's pulling down.

[645] That is a union wage.

[646] She's doing very well.

[647] Yeah, your fantasy adult forking video store is not the same wage.

[648] Probably not.

[649] So, yeah, the spending discussion, anyway, go ahead.

[650] Let's talk about marriage.

[651] Okay, 17 years into their marriage, Susan is like, fake.

[652] There's Snickers.

[653] She said, I cared about him, but I didn't want to live with him anymore.

[654] I wanted to be happy again.

[655] So in September 2005, she kicks him the hunk out of the house.

[656] Good.

[657] And he moves into his father's home, but Susan never changes the locks or the alarm code, which was their anniversary.

[658] Oh.

[659] Well, why would she?

[660] It's her husband that she thinks she knows and has a relationship with.

[661] Right.

[662] Okay.

[663] So she wasn't surprised after her hair appointment.

[664] She gets home.

[665] She's still in her scrubs.

[666] It's 6 .37 p .m. She lives in Montevilla neighborhood.

[667] Comes home, finds a note by the microwave from Mike because they're still talking and stuff saying, Sue, I haven't been sleeping.

[668] had to get away, went to the beach.

[669] He said he'd see here on Friday or Saturday.

[670] Love me. He says.

[671] So Susan disarms the alarm, goes to the house to the front, grabs her mail, and she comes back inside and looks through the house to her bedroom and sees that it's really good night, dark in her bedroom abnormally.

[672] And she's like, oh, I thought I'd open the drapes that morning.

[673] There's like something is off.

[674] She knew it immediately in the, in the ant insect part of her brain.

[675] Well, there's, what is scarier than that?

[676] You're standing in your house and there's something off.

[677] There's something that you didn't do that is like I always have a lamp.

[678] There's a one lamp I never turn off.

[679] And if that were off, if I came home and that were off, I would be like, well, I would think I got my electricity turned off, which happens constantly.

[680] But my thing is like if my cats aren't, if one of the cats aren't greeting me, there's something wrong in the house.

[681] Yes.

[682] You know, like they're scared.

[683] There's a reason.

[684] If my dogs aren't there barking at the window like I'm the mailman, I think they're both dead.

[685] like I picture oh they ate they ate chemicals they ate whatever like I go through a whole thing of trying to go into acceptance about losing both dogs at the same time oh no Jesus and then Georgia like walk up like what I was sleeping um the other day Vince and I came home and the whole house smelled like cigarettes like someone had just smoked a cigarette or was smoking a cigarette in the house it was really clapping creepy and you like went room to room and looked everywhere and what was did you have a window open no I don't know what it was was it was probably someone in the hallway or something wait i think we've talked about this already but did i ever tell you about my friends who live in new york and they they are the producers of eugene merman's comedy festival and they um put a camera in their house because they in their apartment they kept noticing little things moved and and um so finally they put this a camera in their house that would switch on if there was movement yeah and So the guy was at work It switches on Their landlord just is going into their house Walking around And she's It's one of the creepiest videos They showed it to me And she's just really slowly Walking around and looking at everything Oh my God And she like at one point Walks upstairs which is just their bedroom And is up there for like three minutes And then comes back down I never told you about that No I want to cry And then she just leaves But it was like one of the creepiest weirdest Things I've ever seen How come she was moving shampoo Who?

[686] It's like she would, she would look over, like, for a while she'd look at pictures or she'd, like, lean over.

[687] She was just snooping around.

[688] So I'm sure one time she, like, pick up a magazine, look at it and put it down thinking they'll never notice.

[689] Oh, my God.

[690] Isn't that amazing?

[691] You know that's happened in your life.

[692] Oh, my God.

[693] Right?

[694] Like, someone's gone through your cheese and crackers.

[695] When I was a kid, when I was, like, a certain, there was a certain, like, young part period in my life.

[696] I was like, 12 were all, I forking.

[697] It was snoop three.

[698] my fake family sinkhole.

[699] Yes.

[700] Just Snoop.

[701] A hundred percent.

[702] It was so much fun.

[703] I would always go through my mom's nightstand drawer.

[704] Because there was always weird, super random dryer lint in there.

[705] But there was never anything good.

[706] But it would be like, if I dig back here far enough, there would be something weird where I'm like, is this sexual?

[707] I'm not sure.

[708] And it never was.

[709] It was like never what I wanted it.

[710] One time I thought I found a porn under my parents bed.

[711] And I pulled it out and was just an exercise like video tape yeah I was gonna say a VCR my friend and I went through we it was during this time and I had a friend who was like yeah let's go through my mom day cool to and we both had single moms and we found like it must have been given to her as a gag gift because now that I'm older I'm like no one would use those on themselves it's disgusting but at the time we were like I think we like stopped looking through people's stuff after we found this box of like weird dildo attachments yes we were both like oh no yeah and never talked about it again that's the thing that you learn depending from somewhere between when you're 11 and 14 yeah which is you can go ahead and snoop all you want but there's a you have to land on the other side of snooping yeah which is not only that you you're a snooper and you could get caught yeah known as that yeah but then you know something yeah there might be big feelings you don't want to know you're not even imagining what you wouldn't want to know yeah and managing that you're just being like I know what this is going to amount to yeah yeah don't do it do not or I mean do but just know that but then you have to die with some secrets you could snoop up a secret that you're then you're just like well we're get a podcast and talk about it years later it's true okay this isn't about me this is about Susan that's right disarming her alarm it's dark in her room she goes to her room this is your last chance to guess what this is I know what this is because sorry Mike is not in the house no okay but you're but I know what you know you think okay you know but you have no idea from behind the bedroom door a man suddenly lurches towards her right it's a hired guy sorry sugar okay Susan doesn't recognize his face he's got dockers a blue striped shirt on and a tan baseball hat pulled down over his eyes he has yellow rubber gloves on his hands and is carrying a red and black claw hammer.

[712] A claw hammer.

[713] A claw hammer.

[714] He swings the flaming hammer and his first blow lands on her left temple.

[715] Okay.

[716] You hire a hitman and he's like, here's how I'm going to do it.

[717] I'm going to bludgeon her to death.

[718] I'm going to I choose to bludgeon a person as opposed to just shoot them and get it out of the house.

[719] Yeah.

[720] Horrify.

[721] Yeah.

[722] Okay.

[723] So using her instincts and her three decades, of experience in the ER where, Karen, all the ER nurses are trained regularly in self -defense, learning how to slip out of headlocks and clutches.

[724] Wow.

[725] Susan knows instinctively to crowd her attacker, not to, like, cower and back off, because the blows land shifty, if she's, the closer you are?

[726] The closer you are.

[727] That's great.

[728] I'm not, this, don't legally, I am not telling you to do anything when you get attacked, etc. Yeah.

[729] and that would have less force the swings of the hammer if she's not if she's super close to him yeah she flippin screams at him who are you what do you want she's yelling at him but he doesn't answer susan's only five foot four so she's five inches shorter than the man and she has two bad knees from repeated injuries and her excessive weight as she clearly stated in her in her single bad she out but she outweighed him because he was super skin me. So she says she slams her body up against his attempts to push him over, but he doesn't fall.

[730] Instead, he pushes Susan against the bedroom wall, then says the only phrase that he's going to say that night, secretly between you and me, the last leaping thing he'll ever say.

[731] Oh, you're strong.

[732] You're strong.

[733] And she says that the phrase sends surges of adrenaline through her because she said, quote, with hearing this phrase, she says, he's here to kill me. She realized at that moment, I don't know why.

[734] I don't know who he is, but his intent was clear.

[735] And those are his last words ever.

[736] Oh.

[737] Susan pushes him again and says, who sent you?

[738] She wrestles the hammer from him, and she swings the claw three or four times into his skull.

[739] Frump.

[740] She got the collecting.

[741] Hammer.

[742] Yes.

[743] He grabs it back.

[744] And so Susan grabs his throat and says, who sent you here, squeezing his throat.

[745] His face turns red and purple, and then he goes blue.

[746] Susan freaks out at that moment and lets go and tries to run.

[747] He catches her, though, as she's running from the bedroom, they're in this narrow hallway together.

[748] He spins her around and punches her, splitting her lip, punches her again, and she falls to the floor.

[749] And when she looks up, he's standing over her with the hammer.

[750] And at that moment, she thinks, I'm going to die today.

[751] Why did she let go when his face was blue?

[752] I mean, people don't want to kill people.

[753] True, but not great.

[754] I know.

[755] At least make him pass out.

[756] Oh, I mean, yeah, but like you think close enough, right?

[757] The fact that he was able to get up.

[758] I guess so.

[759] I always think I'm smarter than people in death, near death situations.

[760] So she knows she needs to get the hammer from him.

[761] So she pulls him to the floor with her.

[762] So he's standing over her and she, wham, pulls him to the ground with her.

[763] That's brilliant, actually.

[764] I know.

[765] She starts to bite him in her mind.

[766] I'm thinking, I know I'm going to die, but I'm going to...

[767] Shucking?

[768] Leave teeth marks so people know that he, like, can find him.

[769] Yes.

[770] So she, wrestling on the floor together, she bites his arm, his flank, in his thigh, and bites through his shucking zipper to his flopping.

[771] Hot dog to his dick.

[772] Shit.

[773] They can't write that in the will I'm at, probably.

[774] Probably not.

[775] At the same time, she's going through his pockets looking for ID so she can, like, throw his wallet under the bed so, like, the cops will know who it is.

[776] Jesus.

[777] I know.

[778] Oh.

[779] Well, you know what?

[780] Her working in an ER probably prepped her for so many crazy things.

[781] There's no time to panic.

[782] Yeah.

[783] Yeah.

[784] Yeah.

[785] Real clear thinker in horrible situations.

[786] Exactly.

[787] She said I was like a downed power line snapping on the pavement.

[788] How cool is that?

[789] Wow.

[790] I know.

[791] The fight at this point had lasted.

[792] You know how long this fight had gone on?

[793] How long can you?

[794] Ding ding, ding.

[795] Fight for, do you think?

[796] I would give it a good 19 minutes.

[797] Okay, never mind.

[798] It's 14.

[799] Oh.

[800] but however that's a long time i thought you're going to say like six hours i can't even do five minutes of cardio all right so we'll edit that out and then i'll say six minutes okay great great they're both wedged on their sides in the small hallway she throws a leg over his body climbs on top of him hooks her left arm around his neck so she's got him a sweaty choke hold w w style says tell me who sent tell me who sent you here and i will call you a boy they ambulance and all he did was growl um and then she says when i realized i was not going to ever regain the hammer it came to me that i need i needed to become the weapon holy heck girl she says she leans forward tightens her form against his throat and he stopped moving she grabs the hammer and runs outside of the neighbors they call 911 here's a quote from the 911 call do you need an ambulance says they say do you need an ambulance and the neighbor said no she's a nurse.

[801] She says, call an ambulance for the guy, he may be dead.

[802] She's like, I'm fine.

[803] But she is not, she is, she's not adrenaline.

[804] She doesn't know, she doesn't feel like as much of a bad cookie about this as we think of her as a bad cookie.

[805] She's like, freak the flip out about it.

[806] Of course.

[807] Of course.

[808] I mean, not just that this happened to her, but that she killed the dude.

[809] Right.

[810] Okay.

[811] Well, no, that's, I mean, that's a horrible burden.

[812] Yes.

[813] So the man was dead.

[814] His name's, his name was edward haffey he was a 59 -year -old vietnam veteran an opt -tops he showed he had a near lethal dose of cocaine in his system um when he died relatives and friends told police he'd been raised in an upper middle class home and was an avid tennis player so something quite bad happened and i bet it's cocaine yeah he recently lived or vietnam he recently lived in a trailer on northeast killingsworth street and had a long rap sheet in susan's basement they find ed's backpack and in is a container of Hershey Syrup, what?

[815] $200 in cash, diabetes pill, and a daybook and a pay stub.

[816] So court records show that 15 years earlier on February 28, 1991, this guy, Edward Haffey, arranged the murder of his ex -girlfriend, 39 -year -old Georgia Lee Dutton.

[817] Weird that my name is Georgia and my sister's nickname is Lee.

[818] Yeah.

[819] Not really.

[820] A little bit?

[821] A little bit.

[822] A touch of weird.

[823] Let's go a little.

[824] Her decomposed body was later found.

[825] along the umpqua river near roseburg so i try to look up details about her murder because i wanted to say some more about her but i can't find anything at all so he he had pled guilty to conspiracy to commit aggravated murder in 1994 and spent the next nine years in the eastern oregon correctional institution and he had been released in november of 2003 for murder oh god okay oh my god after he got out.

[826] He moved to Portland and in July 2004 was hired by none other than our trash friend Mike Coon Hansen.

[827] The worst last name of all of his name.

[828] To clean floors at adult, at fantasy adult video.

[829] Oh.

[830] So they were workmates.

[831] They were workmates.

[832] So which is where the pay stub in his backpack was from.

[833] Oh, okay.

[834] Okay.

[835] And there's also a day book that had an entry that said call Mike for September 4th, 2006, along with Mike's new cell phone number.

[836] So like, not a good murderer.

[837] No one's covering anything.

[838] Not a good hitman.

[839] No. And he got killed instead of.

[840] Well, I mean, the claw hammer is the indicator.

[841] This is not a hitman.

[842] This is like a lunatic.

[843] Yeah, definitely.

[844] So on September 8th, Mike left a suicide note at his father's house saying, all I ever wanted was to be loved.

[845] And every time I had it, I whacked it up.

[846] No, dude.

[847] You're a piece of dry lint.

[848] Don't feel forking.

[849] sorry for yourself yeah this is not the time for if you've arranged the murder of your ex -wife that yeah it's not the time to talk about how hard things are for you right and how bad it is that you whack things up so then he takes off 10 a m on september 13th a deputy finds mike in the parking garage of a kaiser he's mike says he's checking himself in we don't kaiser yeah they won't have they'll have you there for 10 minutes max well for to a psychiatric hold oh sorry whatever I didn't realize Kaiser had any psychiatric services available.

[850] Let's go try it.

[851] I will.

[852] Right now.

[853] I will.

[854] So police put him in involuntary psychiatric hold, then they put him under arrest for conspiracy to commit murder.

[855] Obviously, he had a motive.

[856] He had lost his job weeks earlier.

[857] He had no place to live.

[858] Susan had named her brother as a beneficiary and her life insurance policy, which is so smart because she was like, I'm divorced.

[859] Like, she must have had some, you know.

[860] And Mike knew that, but Susan and Mike had paid.

[861] off that house and it was worth about $300 ,000 and it would be all his if Susan died.

[862] So he, Mike claims he has nothing to do with it, but there's no signs of forced entry at Susan's home and the security record showed someone had disabled the alarm while Susan was at work.

[863] Mike later said he had just dropped the note off, but they were like, you let this killer inside.

[864] And he was like, no, no, I didn't.

[865] Oh, the note was like his cover of like that proves that I was there, but it wasn't my thing.

[866] I was there and I disabled the alarm, but it was so I could leave.

[867] this note and they're like yeah but clearly you just let this guy in at the same time yeah and also if they're getting a divorce or divorced why would she give it snickers if he's going somewhere like right tell me when you get back that you went somewhere right no it's very it's very stupid yeah so blah blah blah all these other little things happen and we know it's him the promise was a fifty thousand dollar payday for this the dude who killed her who got killed on august 30th 2007 mike pleads guilty to soliciting soliciting maybe susan's murder okay um and that so the hit man's aunt writes a letter to susan in 2010 after all this takes place saying although this was a terrible thing that happened no one in this family has any bad feelings towards you you did what you were forced to do and in doing so you spared many from the same trauma you experienced that's right oh my god that's incredible.

[868] I know.

[869] So Susan filed for divorce the day after Mike's arrest.

[870] Oh, they were just separated.

[871] Yeah, they hadn't divorced yet.

[872] Okay, okay.

[873] And by 2014, she had moved to a new Portland home and like a crazy out of the way cul -de -sac.

[874] She said she felt like, quote, a broken plate glued back together.

[875] Like, she's just, it's so sweet that she's so heartbroken about having to kill someone, even though the person she killed out of self -defense was the person who was sent to murder her.

[876] That person who attempted to murder her.

[877] Yeah, like, really, she's justified as brunch.

[878] And what an amazing person.

[879] And we all hope that we would act the same way in such a situation and we're in awe of her that she did that.

[880] And it doesn't really feel that way.

[881] I think when it happens is what this shows us.

[882] Right.

[883] It's like first, that's the effect that has on us as first person.

[884] Especially as a nurse who's like trained to save lives.

[885] That's her point in life.

[886] Yeah.

[887] That's exactly right.

[888] And she's, and she understands why people get into the situation where they're like, I'm doing so much Coke.

[889] I think it's okay to kill someone with a claw hammer.

[890] Yeah.

[891] Oh, the worst.

[892] So she, she's super paranoid at this time.

[893] She says, I'm doing a life sentence for picking a bad husband, which is like, aren't we all?

[894] Don't put that on you.

[895] Yeah.

[896] We're all broken plates.

[897] That's the thing.

[898] We're all broken plates.

[899] We're all broken plates.

[900] We've never been whole plates.

[901] Yeah.

[902] Maybe right when we were born.

[903] but yeah somewhere around yeah I mean it's different for everybody to like this podcast for me I would say it was it really was preteen that's when you broke I was just like what the frank is happening yeah I see that I think when we first I have memories so like you have a memory because something happens true you know yeah that's right yeah I think I mean five or six I think for me but her yeah that experience would be that's something you really have to work through.

[904] Yes.

[905] So Mike is supposed to be released on September 14th, 2014.

[906] So she's freaking the flake out.

[907] She puts gravel all around her house so she can hear any footstep.

[908] She practiced shooting at a shooting range.

[909] And she said, if he came here, he was not going to get close enough to hurt me. So can you imagine how terrifying that is?

[910] Yeah.

[911] Then 92 days before his release on Friday the 13th of 2014, Mike died of prostate cancer in prison at 65 years old.

[912] Shirt.

[913] Yeah.

[914] So her name is now Susan Walters.

[915] She continued to work as a nurse until December 2014.

[916] And today she's a motivational speaker and provides self -defense expertise for Portland Police Bureau's Women's Strength and Girl Strength programs.

[917] Yes.

[918] And she's a go -to expert on victims' rights.

[919] Yeah.

[920] She's an advocate and focuses on developing a web -based portal for crime victims.

[921] That portal provides a protected single point for victims to receive updates about their offenders.

[922] So you know, like, the people are like, no one told me he was getting out of prison or today was his parole hearing I could have gone to and said what happened.

[923] You know, you can follow that now.

[924] Yeah, that's amazing.

[925] That's so important.

[926] Victims of crime in Moul, oh, God, everyone, Maltanoma, Maltoma County, is that right?

[927] Yeah.

[928] Can now follow their case, their offenders, and access resources through the website.

[929] It's casecompanion .org, and I think every fabulous city should have this.

[930] That's incredible.

[931] She said, Susan says, surviving the event itself is difficult.

[932] Surviving a prolonged and protracted criminal justice journey is also equally hard.

[933] Yeah.

[934] Which we, like, totally, that's amazing.

[935] She said, being an imperfect woman, I married an imperfect man thinking that we could love, honor, and negotiate and have a good life together.

[936] But he had issues around abandonment, anger, and anxiety that he couldn't overcome.

[937] Um, she says that she and the family of Mike hopes that he finds the piece he didn't find in this world.

[938] Oh.

[939] And that's the story of Susan Coonhausen.

[940] Wow.

[941] That's amazing.

[942] And there's a survivor.

[943] I survived about it.

[944] Yeah.

[945] That's good.

[946] I watch it and it's good, but there's another story in it.

[947] One of the other two stories that's really duckling.

[948] Depressing.

[949] Which one?

[950] Um, it's a girl who's closing up like the store she works in and gets held up.

[951] and like they never found the person it's just like really and she's so fragile and like clearly like not ready to talk about it yeah there's that show is so good it's so perfectly produced it's so well done but there are I would say about five where I watch and go yeah isn't ready and isn't it's beautiful that they're doing it for themselves because I bet it's a great step for them and for other I'm sure other people listen to it and hear it and see this woman telling the story and they're so empowered by her.

[952] Yeah.

[953] But she just seemed so fragile.

[954] And it was, it made me really sad.

[955] It's also the reality of it.

[956] Yeah.

[957] It's the reality of it.

[958] It totally is.

[959] Yeah.

[960] I, I, yeah, it's so good.

[961] That show is incredible.

[962] Yeah.

[963] And then there was a family who's, like, cap -sized.

[964] It's always like, they were cool, too.

[965] I dipped into a frozen river.

[966] It's like, okay, and I feel bad for you.

[967] But there's a woman who's fighting off of nasty.

[968] Clawhammer.

[969] Uh -huh.

[970] We need to get back to her.

[971] we can we real quick real quick those are always the stories that end first you notice that yeah the boat people the boat capsizes they get rescued and then they're like well god helped me out of the ocean yeah awesome we'll talk to you later hey susan how did god not help you out of can you tell us god help them out of the ocean what did you ever do she's like well i became an emergency room nurse and bang nailed some bug to the wall yes she did oh Oh, it's intense.

[972] Mm -hmm.

[973] Mm -hmm.

[974] Mm -hmm.

[975] All right.

[976] Well, I went a little culty with mine for this week.

[977] Good.

[978] I think because somebody recommended on Twitter, and I'm sorry, I didn't write your name down, because I get very defensive when people recommend British procedural to me, as you know.

[979] Yeah.

[980] Because I'm always like, how dare you come to me with a Wallander recommendation?

[981] We've talked about this a lot.

[982] But I still like it.

[983] What?

[984] Let's talk about it more.

[985] Let's really do a deep dive.

[986] This is about you.

[987] But somebody recommended a show called Silent Witness.

[988] And it is basically a, it's like a law and order in England where there are on iTunes, it's season one through four and then season like 17 through 29.

[989] Like it's been on for a really wrong time.

[990] It's a procedural.

[991] And it's basically about the coroner and the medical examiner.

[992] And who's the silent witness?

[993] The coroner?

[994] The coroner medical examiner or maybe the dead body.

[995] dead body i'm going to need answers anyway it's a cat there's a cat that lives in the corner's office it's the corner's cat like a bodega cat but in the where it just is up on a shelf can i just say there's a there's an instagram called bodega cats of instagram yeah and it's made me never want to eat at a bodega again because just the photos i mean they're adorable but cats dream holes on everything on everything like any snappy bag of gardettos peppercorns chips you get a cat A bodega cat's dream pole.

[996] Just do a quick chlorox wipe rinse on the outside of that bag.

[997] I can never lick a bag of Gordettos again.

[998] That's how you pick what flavor you want is you lick the outside.

[999] They taste like what they're supposed to taste like, right?

[1000] That's right.

[1001] The outside tastes like the inside.

[1002] Just like people.

[1003] I love filthy.

[1004] New York City bodegas so much as a country girl who we always lived five miles way from anything good.

[1005] Yeah.

[1006] When I lived in New York, the idea that I could walk down the stairs from my apartment and literally 40 feet to the corner and go in and get a bag of tates, they always have tates, they always have Haribou Gummy Bears.

[1007] They're some weird, like, brand of ice cream sandwiches.

[1008] Yep.

[1009] And the name, the word bodega sounds so cool.

[1010] It sounds very much like, hi, I'm an art student.

[1011] I sometimes free base Coke, but I also just love to come and get an Italian sub sandwich.

[1012] Oh my God.

[1013] Okay.

[1014] Okay.

[1015] So anyway, I went, I went because I had watched, I think, four seasons of silent witness.

[1016] And there were some, it's such, it's very dramatically produced.

[1017] And there's a lot of like her just standing over her dead body being like, you know, the victim is in a, in rigor where you're, you're like, okay, this is very real.

[1018] Like, it's.

[1019] Because it's boring.

[1020] It's a touch boring.

[1021] They're not afraid to go boring in England.

[1022] Because that's what it's really like.

[1023] Because it's real.

[1024] There's one where it was about a bunch of people who died.

[1025] on a boat and then every time so they were just sitting there waiting at the harbor waiting for the dead bodies to get transported in from the ocean and then every time it would there would just be this terrible horn that would sound and I was like I bet this is what really happens this is awful like this is when I turn it off exactly because you're like I don't want to experience this maybe it will happen to me someday so how about I don't go through it now right I don't want to hear oh god in my Fred Willard show that I'm watching Why do they keep driving dead bodies up in these jalopies?

[1026] It's not funny.

[1027] It's not.

[1028] I don't appreciate it.

[1029] Okay.

[1030] So anyway, I had a lot of that.

[1031] So then I was like, let's take a nice left turn and go into a little cult area.

[1032] Great.

[1033] And I thought about the one that I've always been obsessed with, which is the order of the solar temple.

[1034] Oh, my God.

[1035] So this was the one where on October 4th, 1994, and this was on, so remember back 94.

[1036] Remember it.

[1037] It was on all the news.

[1038] I don't remember this.

[1039] Okay.

[1040] Get ready.

[1041] Because you might as, I encourage you to yell out when you remember.

[1042] I'm going to.

[1043] You don't have to encourage me. Okay.

[1044] So October 4th, 1994, it's a place called Moran, I'm assuming it's pronounced Moran Heights.

[1045] It's a ski resort near Montreal.

[1046] And authorities are called to the scene of a burning condominium.

[1047] And when they get inside, put the fire out, they find two charred dead bodies.

[1048] So they look up who owns.

[1049] the condominium and on the whatever mortgage papers I put owners docus owners stuff this the signage page area yeah the owners are two men Joseph de mombrough and Luke Jure so they assume that's these two charred bodies are the owners but then as the investigators make their way through the burnt condominium apartment they find three more bodies in the back of the house in like stacked a closet.

[1050] And those bodies are identified as a man named Tony Dutoyt or Dutois and his wife, Nikki, and their three -month -old son, Christopher Emmanuel.

[1051] Are they burned too?

[1052] They're burned.

[1053] But then once the investigators start looking into it, they realize that the front two bodies and the back bodies are all covered in blood.

[1054] So before they burned, they were covered in blood.

[1055] Oh, my God.

[1056] So then they're like, something actually happened here.

[1057] Well, then on Tony's body, he was stabbed over 50 times in the back.

[1058] Holy Shreb.

[1059] Nikki was stabbed in the chest and like upper body area like six or seven times.

[1060] Oh, my God.

[1061] This is the worst part.

[1062] No. The baby was stabbed in the heart with a wooden steak.

[1063] So they're like, what fake occult shark week is going on here.

[1064] I have never heard this before.

[1065] it's it's bad tell me everything okay so they re then they realize that one of the two bodies that they found originally up in the front of the house one of them is a woman okay so they're like i don't think this is the owners something insane happened here so they put out arrest warrants for the owners um because they had the police discover that all five of these people were members of the order of the solar temple which was a very secretive sect founded by the two men on the owners papers, Joseph DeMambrough and Luke Jurey.

[1066] Then the police find out that Tony and his wife, Nikki, had recently left the cult after speaking out against these leaders.

[1067] And so that's when the cops are like, okay, we got to arrest these guys.

[1068] But there are nowhere to be found.

[1069] The next day, or it's the same, let's see, it's October 5th in the Swiss village of Siri is how it's pronounced.

[1070] There's a farmhouse that's on fire.

[1071] And when the firemen in this Swiss village go there and put it out they find the owner inside he's slumped over the kitchen table and there's a plastic bag over his head so they think oh no he's an elderly farmer and he's committed suicide then they find a gunshot wound in the back of his head and they're like uh oh so then as they inspect the house they start finding incendiary devices all over the house and then they start looking in the outbuildings on the property so there's more buildings aside from the farmhouse they start to investigate these buildings they also have these incendiary devices in them and one of them uh the cop one of the cops observes that the outside of the building is really big but when they go in it's really small there's just a small space and it's like an office that looks really busy it looks like there's people that come there to work every day or whatever but it's compared to the outside they're like they start looking for secret panels and they find one.

[1072] And basically what happens is an entire section of wall is found to be able to slide back.

[1073] Oh, my God.

[1074] On the other side of this wall, they find a huge secret chamber.

[1075] It's decorated floor to ceiling in red.

[1076] No. It has these weird mirrors on every wall that at the top are kind of shaped a little bit like, I don't know what the word is.

[1077] It's like the top of a Turkish turret or whatever where it looks like a Hershey's Kiss but swoopy.

[1078] Thatter.

[1079] Yes.

[1080] Anyway, it's all like ritualized.

[1081] There's weird these weird stands like lecterns that are gold that are in there and there's, so basically it's all obviously used for some kind of religious rite.

[1082] Some straight up cultive jury duty?

[1083] Culte jury duty.

[1084] There's champagne bottles on the ground and in the middle of the floor arranged in a like star formation feet in the center head of the outside are 18 corpses.

[1085] What?

[1086] What the 18?

[1087] 18.

[1088] They're all wearing either red, gold, or black ceremonial capes and some have plastic bags over their heads.

[1089] Then they find another second secret room.

[1090] There's three more bodies inside that room and there's a ton of blood in both rooms.

[1091] So the police basically start putting together.

[1092] Can you imagine stumbling upon that?

[1093] No, it's a something on a secret hidden room.

[1094] Yes.

[1095] Like, which is awesome.

[1096] The roller coaster of emotions that cop went through where he's like, I'm the one that, hey, I admit, and then they slide the wall back and it's like, well, here you go.

[1097] Yeah, this is what you wanted.

[1098] Here's your secret room, friend.

[1099] Um, so they realize that this is obviously a ritualized mass suicide.

[1100] Yeah.

[1101] But there's so much blood in the room.

[1102] They're like, oh, this wasn't voluntary for a lot of these people.

[1103] Um, yeah.

[1104] And most, Most of the people had been killed by gunshot wounds to the head that were not self -inflicted.

[1105] So that's how they start putting together that this was perhaps non -voluntary suicide.

[1106] Or, as we like to call it, murder.

[1107] Okay.

[1108] Non -voluntary suicide.

[1109] The worst kind of suicide, non -voluntary.

[1110] I am a professional psych cop.

[1111] Okay.

[1112] So then two days later, a hundred miles away in the Swiss resort village of Grange -sur -Salvent.

[1113] Thank you so much.

[1114] You know it sounds nothing like that.

[1115] Yeah, but it sounds better when you said.

[1116] I just, I'm trying to sell it like I'm a waitress at a fancy French cafe.

[1117] Would you like a crock, Monsieur?

[1118] Or a Grand Saint -Ré -Sour -Ré.

[1119] Yeah.

[1120] Okay, so, which is French for baked onion.

[1121] Okay, the fire department is called to now three adjacent chalets that are all on fire.

[1122] And inside each, they find eerily similar scenes to the Siri fire.

[1123] This time, 25 bodies are discovered, including three teenagers and four children.

[1124] And most of these bodies, these victims have been poisoned.

[1125] And they're all identified through dental records to also be members of the Order of the Solar Temple.

[1126] And in this situation, only 15 of the 47 were true suicides.

[1127] the rest were murders.

[1128] So now the search for the co -founders of the Order of the Solar Temple goes international.

[1129] So basically this cult was founded by this guy, Joseph de Mambro, who was born in southern France.

[1130] He studied to be a clockmaker and a jeweler, but he always had interest in the occult.

[1131] And when he was in his 30s, he joined the Rosecutions or the Order of the Rosie Cross.

[1132] And it's another, so there's all these secret.

[1133] cults or sex that were that are based on the knights templar so the knights templar were the knights who went on the first crusades and they came back and then they were so dedicated to this spreading of Christianity down into the Middle East that they began to protect it was like they vowed to protect all these Christian pilgrims that were going down into the Middle East so they would, they basically kind of were out there protecting people, but they also made a ton of money because of the, because of the crusades.

[1134] They were just out there, you know, obviously killing and pillaging and doing all their stuff.

[1135] So they became very rich.

[1136] Then their power, they were so well regarded that they became really powerful.

[1137] And of course, then the popes are like, who are these mother corn nuts?

[1138] We're supposed to be the most powerful.

[1139] So then they became hunted.

[1140] And then that's when they went underground and it was all secret secret secret so that's what all these people and that's kind of like the um like the dan brown books and stuff where it's all the knights templar this and the knights templar that if the guy if the guy or gal who does uh animate my podcast would animate that part of you telling me explaining to me the crusades because it's i would say i would guess right now yeah and hopefully there's a history professor listening oh yeah i think i probably got that 57 % right.

[1141] I think I would have passed a test, but not well.

[1142] Right.

[1143] A D plus.

[1144] A D plus, which is pretty much my average.

[1145] And now, and it would make you happy.

[1146] And then the press to be like, you're not supposed to be happy about that.

[1147] You're like, flipping.

[1148] Pass.

[1149] Bye.

[1150] Pass.

[1151] Bye.

[1152] And I never thought I could.

[1153] Yeah.

[1154] Because I can't read.

[1155] So definitely let me know all the information I'm missing in the 300 years that the Knights Templar were in action.

[1156] Right.

[1157] But, essentially it became that thing and we've all seen the Dan Brown what is that book that I can't think of the Da Vinci Code, thank you Stephen.

[1158] Stephen loves literature that it's just this idea that essentially they were protecting Mary Magdalene who was carrying Jesus' baby.

[1159] You know that's like at the end of the day that is supposedly the what do they call that the truth?

[1160] The Bible.

[1161] The Uh, uh, Christianity.

[1162] What's the cup?

[1163] Oh, the kiddish cup.

[1164] Holy Grail.

[1165] Thank you.

[1166] The Holy Grail is Jesus' baby, right?

[1167] It's also called the Kiddish Cup.

[1168] We had it first.

[1169] Oh, that's true.

[1170] So don't come at me with it.

[1171] Yeah, you explain it to me. I'm forking.

[1172] No, what's going on.

[1173] Anyway, this is a religion podcast.

[1174] It's all about secrets.

[1175] They base this whole thing on like secrets, hidden treasure, hidden money, making sure that they could always kind of get this.

[1176] the Christianity, where they needed it to go.

[1177] Okay.

[1178] And have missionaries protected and all that.

[1179] Okay.

[1180] So secret societies are like, got to keep it up with the Christians.

[1181] Right.

[1182] But then as we know, when things are secret, then little power structures come up.

[1183] And then suddenly you've got two people that are like, well, I'm in charge of the secret sect.

[1184] And now I've decided we're going to do a little something extra.

[1185] We're going to wash everybody's feet in a bucket.

[1186] Right?

[1187] We're going to do, they start adding their own gravy.

[1188] And it's like, no longer are you.

[1189] you at Knights Templar.

[1190] Now you're a foot washer.

[1191] Now you're some kind of like, I feel like everyone, every woman needs to honk me before we start this ceremony.

[1192] How many times have I said this?

[1193] French.

[1194] The government.

[1195] And I'll say it again.

[1196] How many, this is not my friendly phrase.

[1197] That's right.

[1198] Ellis knows.

[1199] He's like, I'm sick of you saying that.

[1200] He knows.

[1201] He's so sick of it.

[1202] Okay, so anyhow, I lost my place entirely.

[1203] Okay.

[1204] That's what this podcast is.

[1205] is called.

[1206] Where am I?

[1207] Where am I?

[1208] He, in 1973, Joseph de Mambro moves to the Swiss border.

[1209] He starts a group called the Center for the Preparation of the New Age.

[1210] Okay.

[1211] So you know hot stuff is happening in this group.

[1212] Let's get together.

[1213] Let's weave some looms.

[1214] Let's ta -da.

[1215] Make pottery.

[1216] Sure.

[1217] Let's talk about the Knights Templars.

[1218] What year is this again?

[1219] 73.

[1220] Okay.

[1221] And he begins to tell his followers of the people in the group that he is the reincarnation of the God Osiris and of my god of my life.

[1222] Moses.

[1223] And then he starts telling them, you're the reincarnation of Napoleon and you're the reincarnation of Cleopatra.

[1224] And everybody's the reincarnation of some famous political leader or royalty of some kind.

[1225] Doubt it.

[1226] Then he starts telling them he's the one that's going to decide who's having a relationship with who because he's the only one who knows who they were originally were.

[1227] And now we have this chance to breed a master race of children.

[1228] So let's make sure that, like, Cleopatra has sex with Napoleon or whatever.

[1229] He's making up all the sugar.

[1230] People are like, yes, sounds good.

[1231] And everyone's like, yeah, we want a bone.

[1232] Yeah, we want a bone and we want to be dead famous people.

[1233] So he basically is like, I'm in charge of who gets married.

[1234] I'm in charge of who gets to have children.

[1235] So it becomes, he goes from like, we're a group that gets together to talk about how grab the Knights Templar are.

[1236] And now it's like, I control every aspect of your life.

[1237] which is how it always goes.

[1238] Even though that's how intense and bizarre it was, all these respected citizens and extremely wealthy people join this thing because it's all about the, he sells this idea that if you give enough money, you can like absorb the spirituality and power of the Knights Templar.

[1239] It's this honorable society and you join it and you're forwarding the Christian movement or what, I don't know, whatever.

[1240] So, because rich people get bored.

[1241] is really what that means.

[1242] They get bored and we all want guarantees, right?

[1243] So it's like, I'm going to give this guy who claims to be what did he, he also claimed to be the reincarnation of a 14th century night, night Templar, whatever.

[1244] And then the other guy, Luke Jure, he claimed to be the third incarnation of Jesus Christ.

[1245] He went straight to the top.

[1246] Oh, man. Yeah.

[1247] So basically, people are getting into it.

[1248] And at that time, he changed the name, uh, Joseph de Mombro in 1978 changes the name to the foundation of the Golden Way.

[1249] He takes a core group of the followers.

[1250] And I was like, we're super into this.

[1251] Let's go start the foundation of the Golden Way.

[1252] And in that group, that's when Luke Jurey shows up.

[1253] He is, Luke Jurey was born in the Belgian Congo.

[1254] He studied to be an actual doctor.

[1255] Then he decides he's not into like traditional medicines and he wants to be an alternative healer.

[1256] So then he starts getting really into holistic medicine.

[1257] and really into New Age Chipotle.

[1258] And he starts, he becomes like a star on the New Age circuit.

[1259] He's the one that like in the mid -late 70s is out there telling everybody, here's how you tap into your inner, the God Osiris or whatever the truck.

[1260] It is.

[1261] When you stop running about gas, you don't have to worry about gas prices and having a job and money because you're wealthy.

[1262] Yeah, don't worry about any of the things that everybody else in Jimmy Carter's America are freaking out about.

[1263] Right.

[1264] Don't worry about it.

[1265] Yeah, because you have enough money.

[1266] So come join a cult.

[1267] Come secret sect with us.

[1268] So when they meet, Joe DeMambrough knows that this guy, he's like the face man. He's going to be the perfect pitch man for their new cult, which they, in 1984, basically reconfigure.

[1269] Yeah, it's going on for so long.

[1270] They reconfigure and call themselves the order of the solar temple.

[1271] So that's when Luke Jurei comes into Joe DeMombrose life.

[1272] That's when it all clicks.

[1273] Okay.

[1274] So in this group, they have these rituals.

[1275] are based on ancient Christian and Masonic rights.

[1276] It's all secret.

[1277] So all the members are secret, all that, you know, nobody tells anybody else that they're in this group.

[1278] And at its height, they had lodges in Canada, Australia, Switzerland, and Martinique.

[1279] I mean, I'll join just to clunking.

[1280] Go on vacay.

[1281] I mean, right?

[1282] You know?

[1283] To just go to an island and then pretend you're Cleopatra.

[1284] Skiing in Switzerland.

[1285] Skiing in Martinique.

[1286] Great.

[1287] So that was a joke, everybody.

[1288] I know Martinique is a beautiful island.

[1289] So soon, the topic changes.

[1290] And when I say soon, I mean after seven years or whatever, the brunch.

[1291] Soon.

[1292] These people stay in this weird cult.

[1293] They start sending this message that an apocalypse is coming.

[1294] It's an environmental apocalypse.

[1295] Man has caused it.

[1296] It's man's fault that it's going to happen.

[1297] And only the elite are going to survive it.

[1298] Oh, great.

[1299] So if you want to be in that group, why don't you kick down all of the money that you have.

[1300] They make everybody give them all of their money.

[1301] That's a connect.

[1302] Yeah.

[1303] And it's this insurance.

[1304] So eventually that message becomes, um, the reason that you should trust us is that Joe's daughter, whose name was Emmanuel, um, she was one of nine existing cosmic children who would lead them all to a planet that was next to the star serious.

[1305] And his son also, uh, Eli, I believe his name was, his destiny, Eli's destiny was to usher in the new age.

[1306] So luckily, the leader of this cult's two children were the key pieces to get them to.

[1307] So basically, the Earth was going to end for environmental reasons.

[1308] And then they were going to travel via a path of fire to a planet that's next to the Star Series.

[1309] Everyone's like, it's crazy.

[1310] It's crazy.

[1311] And I want to be like, how the whack?

[1312] Like there's the podcast, Heaven's Gate.

[1313] That's like super good that like my sad retelling of the Heaven's Gate.

[1314] story last week before the podcast came out by the way I just I didn't know about it yet it was good um it they like focus on a couple actual cult members and explain how it happened and you kind of get it a little more but it's just so bananas and bonkers I think it comes down to that feeling of like when life is feels really plain all the time yeah and then you get introduced to an idea of you're special and there's more than there's more than this and you're correct everyone else is is going along with their everyday life and they're all lemmings you're special i see how special you are come in do my ritual yeah let me shoot you in i have i have knowledge yeah and that i will impart on to you yes listen i'm starting a call right now yeah i mean i i'm believing are you in here are you the god o cyrus i have elvis sitting on my lap staring at me she is petting a cat in a kind of evil cult like way okay i just uncross his eyes it's a miracle yeah she's a miracle yeah she's She's real.

[1315] Since recording this episode in 2018, our cult has grown into a worldwide organization.

[1316] If you're interested in learning more about our cult, go to my favorite murder .com, promo code murder.

[1317] So, okay, so basically, that talk goes on so long that, of course, nothing ends up happening.

[1318] And the members are like, yeah, okay, you've been talking about this apocalypse for a while, nothing's going on.

[1319] And I've given you, like, millions of dollars.

[1320] Make the apocalypse happen.

[1321] Yeah, I want everyone else to die.

[1322] I want to see what you're talking about.

[1323] I want these things to happen.

[1324] Well, also, meanwhile, they started getting, of course, super crazy with their power.

[1325] They were buying houses everywhere.

[1326] They had everybody's money.

[1327] So they're out like they've got houses here.

[1328] And, you know, as you saw, chalets and condos in every city.

[1329] They're hiding dump rooms.

[1330] They've got, they can build things that look like small rooms, but that are actually big rooms.

[1331] It's crazy.

[1332] And so the members are like, yeah, you seem to be getting a lot of.

[1333] stuff but like all of our you know it's on our dime yeah so uh then luke jurey is voted out as grandmaster of the canadian branch of the temple of the how mad is he because he starts to demand that when that that one woman has sex with him before every ritual for his to build strength and everyone's like okay all the members are like you're losing your shampoo and it's obvious and it's creepy.

[1334] So then he gets voted out.

[1335] Well, then Joe de Mambro is just like, wait, no, it's our cold.

[1336] You can't get voted out.

[1337] What are you doing?

[1338] Yeah.

[1339] This isn't a funnel cake.

[1340] Fantasy Island or whatever.

[1341] Yeah.

[1342] You mean Survivor?

[1343] Yes.

[1344] Yes.

[1345] You knew.

[1346] Just as a bit of information, Luke Jurey, it shouldn't be a surprise that he lost his shampoo.

[1347] Because before joining the Order of the Solar Temple, he had belonged to a racist, neo -Nazi magical organization.

[1348] co -founded by former Gestapo officer named Julian Oregis and he was also an illegal arms dealer so he wasn't a great like he wasn't a nice to do a little background check rich people yeah are you a good guy can you write a horse are you an arms dealer these things should disqualify so then this is all building right so they're like slightly losing control it's like no no focus on my cosmic daughter or whatever then in February of 1993 it's the 54 day siege of Waco oh shoot right so on all of our TVs we all saw the Branch Davidians and the and David Koresh and everything we saw that whole thing go up in flames is that going to be a podcast soon or a TV show like a I think it's a TV show like a documentary I think it's one of those American crimes or something right experience I want to see a good Dad?

[1349] Oh, that would be fun.

[1350] Just the longest American dad of all time.

[1351] He works for the CIA.

[1352] So, okay, so after that happens and everybody watched it on TV.

[1353] And everyone's like, oh, no more cults for me. Exactly.

[1354] I think I've had enough.

[1355] I'm full.

[1356] Which is the funniest thing in the world to me where they're like, oh, this is where we're headed.

[1357] We're not actually headed to a planet next to the Star Series.

[1358] No. We're just going to burn government style.

[1359] Right.

[1360] French?

[1361] The government.

[1362] Listen.

[1363] It's the government.

[1364] Okay, so...

[1365] Please don't hurt me government.

[1366] That won't work.

[1367] So...

[1368] This is too late.

[1369] This is my favorite part.

[1370] So as all of this is, right, it's crumbling, it's crumbling.

[1371] Our millions, you know, people are walking away, our secret.

[1372] And they really did have, they had millionaires, they had scientists, they had famous architects.

[1373] There was people in this cult, very high -level people, a very famous Swiss composer.

[1374] So it was like a bunch of smarty pants.

[1375] Smarty Pants and Richies.

[1376] Smart and Marty!

[1377] I mean, the whole place smelled like, Paul onions, after shave.

[1378] So, what am you saying?

[1379] So, okay, then they discover that, so our friend Tony Dutois, I don't remember how I pronounced it, the man who was found stabbed 50 times in the apartment in Canada.

[1380] With his wife and baby.

[1381] And his wife and baby.

[1382] Okay, so it turns out, he was a longtime member of the Order of the Solar Temple and he discovered so they would have these rights and rituals and when Joe DeMambrough did them, he could make things fly, he could make things like appear out of nowhere.

[1383] There's all these weird things he did that made people believe that he was special and had special powers.

[1384] Well, it turns out Tony Dutois discovers that he was using lasers and holograms.

[1385] No. Back in 90, I'm impressed by that in 94.

[1386] Yeah.

[1387] even earlier yeah he he basically set it up so the whole thing was like special effects and fog and light show or whatever and made people believe it was his power and he was spending he was spending their money a ton of money because a hologram back then was sure it's basically like a cocella tuba DJ set yeah but just him and 12 people yeah in robes so tony finds out about this and starts going you guys this is super fake we this is a whole thing as a fraud to the point where and so much uh like distrust and uh disillusion was going through the whole cult down to joe de mambro's own children who are like my dad's a fraud like everybody was starting to bail out a space cadet my dad is lying i can't lead you to that planet no but that's my favorite that it was like the the straw that broke the camel's back was that his holograms and laser were discovered.

[1388] So then everyone's just bailing like crazy.

[1389] Okay.

[1390] So then he, so basically Tony tells everybody and then like gets out of town.

[1391] So Joe de Mambro announced to the remaining members that the Dutois's three month old son was the Antichrist and needed to be assassinated.

[1392] Oh, no. Yes.

[1393] So the two bodies that were in that condo from the beginning of this story turned out to be 35 -year -old Jerry Jeannot and 60 -year -old.

[1394] Let Jeannot, they murdered the dutois, murdered that baby, and then committed suicide and lit that apartment on fire with the incendiary device that was like all the incendiary devices.

[1395] Holy.

[1396] Lippin shirt.

[1397] Yes.

[1398] So what awful, awful people.

[1399] So crazy.

[1400] And then like once they knew that was happening, they, they know it's over.

[1401] So they announced to the rest of the membership that the apocalypse has arrived.

[1402] And it's time for all of them to travel.

[1403] to the planet next to the star serious let's go so it's mass suicide time and because they they were saying the transformation takes place in fire that's why all those incendiary device that's where all the buildings were burning so what were the incendiary devices made of do you know I don't but in my mind it looks like a light switch with the plate off the front yeah and like there's a little thing tied to this thing and a little and then a mouse choose the rope yes right and then boom yeah but the mouse survives that's right the mouse is fine the mouse is innocent and then a cat swoops down and eats the mouse um yay so it was at that farmhouse from the beginning in Siri where Joe de Mambro and Luke Juree met their end along with 21 other members so they were okay they were in Siri then okay so the reason that it's so amazing to me is because I remember very distinctly when I saw it on the news they were so vague and it still you can barely get any good information about never heard of this.

[1404] What was really happening but I remember seeing it on the news and being like I want to know more and all you ever heard was so then again in 1995 in Grenoble they find 16 bodies out in the forest in an area they called Hell's Entrance or Hell's Hole or something which is super creepy and the creep that you can see a picture online it's a forest there's police tape.

[1405] It looks like it's from like a helicopter.

[1406] There's police tape and then it just looks like there's a weird orange light.

[1407] It's super creepy.

[1408] I have never, I'm flapping.

[1409] Google weird murders, weird deaths, weird, you know, all the time and I've never heard of this.

[1410] Fold some Knights Templar in there, fold in cult.

[1411] Okay.

[1412] Fold in.

[1413] Well, so in that forest, there were 16 bodies.

[1414] And this is a year later.

[1415] Then two years after that in Quebec, in March of five people are found dead and at the last minute three children who were supposed to also die convince their parents who ended up dead convinced their parents that they wanted to live and their parents let them go so three kids escaped I want to interview them right what's what they're still killing themselves even though it's over yes two years later like by who like why so crazy or three years later.

[1416] Um, so the total number of deaths in the order of the solar temple is 74.

[1417] Jesus.

[1418] Include, and their members included scientists, architects, policemen, and children.

[1419] What?

[1420] And the group, um, had between four and six hundred members.

[1421] Um, it's estimated to have made in its prime, 93 million dollars.

[1422] Sugar.

[1423] And in, um, in the Grenoble, uh, scene where, um, in 1995, where they found 16 bodies.

[1424] The wife of famous champion skier Jean Varnay, who is the inventor of the awesome 80s sunglasses, his wife, Edith, and their youngest son Patrick were among the 16 victims.

[1425] So they couldn't have been richer.

[1426] Those people, they had, Varne in the 80s was like, you couldn't be richer.

[1427] Are they the ones with the swoopy thing here?

[1428] The weird thing here.

[1429] No, Varnets were like kind of the original ski sunglasses, so they were mirrored and they were like kind of plastic.

[1430] Yeah, every cartoon skier.

[1431] Yep, instructor has this.

[1432] Rich guys, we went skiing the first time we went to Tahoe when I was eight.

[1433] They made us take ski lessons.

[1434] And my sister had a pair of varnas on.

[1435] And I, instead of listening to the ski instructor, just kept staring at myself in the mirrored reflection of my sister's sunglasses.

[1436] So I didn't listen to how to stop or what to do.

[1437] And so basically, we went down one run.

[1438] And I was like, I need to take these off.

[1439] I'm leaving.

[1440] I'm not doing this.

[1441] I don't know what's going on.

[1442] And then we just played in the snow all day.

[1443] Exactly.

[1444] Here's the more interesting one.

[1445] Channel 4, the British TV station, they made a documentary, alleging that Grace Kelly, the Princess of Monica, was also initiated into the Order of the Solar Temple just months before her car accident that took her life.

[1446] Yeah, she was in a car accident.

[1447] Some say she was not in that car.

[1448] Some say the body was never found.

[1449] But her estate denies any association with, the order of the solar temple.

[1450] But the filmmakers who made this documentary for Channel 4 talked to the acupuncturist who worked on Princess Grace before her orientation or not orientation initiation ceremony.

[1451] And because apparently they did acupuncture to relax people so that they weren't like freaked out, I guess.

[1452] And that woman attested to the fact that it was Princess Grace but didn't want to give her name or information because she's scared because she says that the order of the solar temple is still in effect today, still has members, and she's scared of those members coming to retaliate against her.

[1453] Like they're hiding out in plain sight.

[1454] Steven!

[1455] And so the very last thing is when Princess Grace's car crashed in Monaco, her car landed in the yard of a member of the Order of the Solar Temple.

[1456] Karen.

[1457] Yeah.

[1458] That was good.

[1459] That was a good one, right?

[1460] That was a really good one.

[1461] It goes all the way to the top.

[1462] Dude.

[1463] I know.

[1464] I want to know everything.

[1465] I want to know what these people talked about.

[1466] There's photos.

[1467] Are there pictures?

[1468] Yes.

[1469] There's pictures of, and it's all, the faces are blacked out.

[1470] There's black bars across the eyes of like an actual ritual.

[1471] But then there's the empty room where they found the bodies.

[1472] They, I know the ones I saw, it was just the room without the bodies lying in it.

[1473] But then you can also see there's like graphs of how they laid out the body.

[1474] in star formation.

[1475] I want that.

[1476] I want that.

[1477] Yes.

[1478] And I think the one, the people that killed themselves last in 1997 in Canada were laid out in a crucifix formation.

[1479] So the people who, who unintentional suicide, those people, did they, did they ever figure out if they, like, were just like, kill me or they were, like, held hostage or, because, like, I could see people like, I don't want to kill myself, but just shoot me in the back of the head.

[1480] Yeah, I think what they were saying is the theory is that it wasn't they were like I don't want to do this they went there for other reasons some of them think they were drugged or poisoned but then it was then they fought them because there was so much blood that it wasn't just like putting people down in an orderly fashion there was like it was a real bloody crime scene so they think it was that's what led them to believe it was the against against your will suicide that's crazy flipping nuts man alive secret cults Secret delts.

[1481] Where is the treasure?

[1482] There's treasure?

[1483] Treasurer.

[1484] Oh, yeah, the Knights Templar.

[1485] They supposedly, that's like Nick Cage style.

[1486] They supposedly have...

[1487] Oh, is that what that is?

[1488] Yeah, because they went and pillaged everything down in, like, the Holy Land.

[1489] They stole all the sugar from the friendly Jewish people.

[1490] What's up?

[1491] That's right.

[1492] That's right.

[1493] Chosen ones.

[1494] So it's your birthright to go and find those gold of balloons.

[1495] and take them back.

[1496] Let's do it.

[1497] I would love to.

[1498] Let's go on an adventure.

[1499] Okay.

[1500] That was amazing.

[1501] Thank you.

[1502] Thank you for that.

[1503] Absolutely.

[1504] Love a cult.

[1505] What do we, well, when we've come to the end, my friends.

[1506] Oh, yeah.

[1507] Do you have a fun thing for this week?

[1508] A thing that made me happy?

[1509] Yeah.

[1510] No, do you?

[1511] Well, I do actually.

[1512] Okay, great.

[1513] Maybe it'll inspire me. Okay, good.

[1514] But this is a, it's a repeat of one I've done before, but it's kind of an update and it's very exciting because my favorite band and now many other people's favorite band sure sure finally came out with an album it's self -titled it says sure sure you can get it on Spotify you can get it on iTunes and it is so god ding ding good it's all that's like single releases that they had before um and then a bunch of new songs I've never heard before that are so beautiful and it's just great I just got it and I love it so well if we're going to do let's this will be the music perfect thing.

[1515] Vince got us ticket.

[1516] So Vince surprised me with tickets to go see the band Jawbreaker.

[1517] Nice.

[1518] Which I'm like super excited to go see them.

[1519] I've never, I've never seen them play.

[1520] I've been in love with them forever.

[1521] Great old band.

[1522] Everyone go listen.

[1523] Um, but it's also, I love that Vince does shrub like that.

[1524] And it's really sweet.

[1525] And like, I would never go see music or anything live.

[1526] Vince is like into that shirt.

[1527] Yeah.

[1528] So like, does it.

[1529] And then I'm like, what don't I do this more?

[1530] I know.

[1531] Yeah.

[1532] So it's nice to call you have friends like me that are like, um, I'm tired.

[1533] Well, you know I'm not going to go that night.

[1534] Like that night I'm going to be sick.

[1535] Like I am every night.

[1536] But it's sweet that he did it.

[1537] It's so good.

[1538] Oh, wait.

[1539] So it's future, you haven't done it yet.

[1540] Yeah, I haven't done it yet.

[1541] He just bought tickets to go see Jobbreaker.

[1542] That's awesome.

[1543] And, you know, 20 -something year old Georgia is like, you put it on on the radio today and I got really excited.

[1544] Yes.

[1545] That's exciting.

[1546] Yeah.

[1547] Um, um, All right.

[1548] Thanks for listening you guys.

[1549] Guys, thanks for once again going through that with us.

[1550] We have had it up to here with not going through this with you.

[1551] Because we love it so much.

[1552] It's a very fun.

[1553] It's a very fun job.

[1554] And on our two year anniversary, honey.

[1555] Thank you guys so much.

[1556] Thank you so much.

[1557] We're so lipping.

[1558] Lucky.

[1559] This is the best ever.

[1560] It's crazy, lucky, wonderful.

[1561] Yeah.

[1562] Thanks, everybody.

[1563] Thanks, Stephen.

[1564] Thanks, we'll Thank you more in May. In six months, yeah.

[1565] When you earn it.

[1566] When you've learned it.

[1567] When you've lopping.

[1568] Been through the Shrek week.

[1569] Like we have.

[1570] When you finally French.

[1571] The government, the way we need you to.

[1572] Elvis knows he's been here from the happy beginning.

[1573] He was here before us.

[1574] Yeah.

[1575] He'll be here after us.

[1576] He will remain after we have gone.

[1577] Yep.

[1578] Is that it?

[1579] That's it.

[1580] All right.

[1581] Well, then stay saved.

[1582] And do God's mission.

[1583] Bye.

[1584] Elvis?

[1585] Want cookie?

[1586] Yeah.

[1587] Yeah.

[1588] This has been an exactly right production.

[1589] Our producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1590] Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[1591] This episode was edited by Liana Squillachi.

[1592] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.

[1593] Goodbye.

[1594] Happy birthday to you.

[1595] It is.

[1596] It is.

[1597] It's a horror.

[1598] It's a horror.

[1599] It sounds like a horror movie.

[1600] Follow my favorite murder on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you like to listen so you don't miss an episode.

[1601] If you like what you hear, rate and review the show.

[1602] Visit exactly right store .com to purchase my favorite murder merch.