Why Slow and Steady Always Wins the Race

[0] from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions.

[1] It's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[2] Thank you for joining us, America.

[3] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, bestselling author multiple times over.

[4] And lately, bestselling author of the new book, Children's Book.

[5] I'm glad for where I am the second in a series.

[6] She's my co -host today and my daughter.

[7] The phone number is 3 ,8 -8 -825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[8] That's 3 ,8 -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -5.

[9] Adriana is in Dallas, Texas.

[10] Hi, Adriana.

[11] How are you?

[12] Hi, I'm good.

[13] Thank you so much for taking my call.

[14] Sure.

[15] What's up?

[16] So my husband passed away about a year ago, and thank you.

[17] How long were you married?

[18] 13 years.

[19] Wow.

[20] How old was he?

[21] He was only 41.

[22] Whoa, what happened?

[23] It was a rare presentation of colon cancer, and from diagnosis to death, it was just under two years.

[24] So it was really fast.

[25] I'm so strong.

[26] Thank you.

[27] So the biggest issue is that I have life insurance money.

[28] Luckily, we had that.

[29] And I hired some financial advisors, and they're advising that I invest in whole life insurance for the kids.

[30] Because there's a high interest, introductory interest rate, and there may be a, um, genetic component.

[31] The other big thing is that I am intending to take over the mortgage on my house because it's in my parents' name, and I want to take it over.

[32] So they have advice to have some credit, you know, to have some credit in order to build my credit line.

[33] I'm not working.

[34] I'm homeschooling, and I'm getting Social Security.

[35] I'm just wondering, are those the best routes to take, and it's not what is?

[36] Well, you obviously smelled a rat or you wouldn't have been asking.

[37] Right.

[38] Yeah.

[39] And so, are you sure these are financial advisors and not just insurance agents?

[40] They have a financial planning.

[41] I mean, that's what they say they are.

[42] Okay.

[43] What's the company?

[44] Well, they work with, I think the company with the whole life is New York.

[45] I'm sorry, it's Eagle Strategies.

[46] Now, New York, but New York Life.

[47] New York Life, yes.

[48] Yeah, these are insurance agents.

[49] They're not financial advisors.

[50] okay because the insurance people don't know how to uh do anything but sell insurance and they're not licensed to sell anything but insurance but she said eagle there was another yeah yeah but i mean investing you can't write for a new york life unless you're a new york life agent so they're captives so uh it's not an independent so uh you know this is just the name of the local new york life office so no we're not doing business with them you need to you need to move you're getting bad advice.

[51] Okay.

[52] And so here's the thing.

[53] You've been through a terrible thing at a very young age.

[54] And so there's always a potential genetic component any time someone gets cancer.

[55] That's why when you're doing a life insurance of any kind, application, they ask about your parents and if they have died of cancer because they want to see that because there are statistical correlations to that at least susceptibility if not DNA issue and so on right I'm not a medical person but that's how the insurance worldviews it and I do know that okay so but but that doesn't change what you need to be doing what you need to be doing is taking care of your family what you're doing and building some well for your future and the kids futures and then when they face something if they ever face it they will let's say they're 28 and married with two kids by then they should have term life insurance in place and then if they had some kind of an occurrence like you guys did then they would be ready that way you don't buy whole life life insurance on a child because their parent died of cancer that's asinine okay mathematically okay and it's just the it's just insurance age i mean if you ask a dog if it's hungry it always says yes if you ask an insurance agent if you should buy insurance they always say yes so i mean it's just especially in the whole life world and so no you and and you do need to get the mortgage into your name instead of your parents names and that's going to require some other things but we don't need to go get in debt to cause that to happen so here's what we're going to do Okay.

[56] We don't need anything from you.

[57] We're not trying to sell you anything.

[58] Quite the opposite.

[59] As people of faith, our book tells us to take care of widows and orphans.

[60] And people that take advantage of widows and orphans, by the way, really get in a bad place.

[61] You don't want to be there.

[62] And so we're going to do quite the opposite here.

[63] I'm going to furnish you a Ramsey counselor, a Ramsey coach that's been through our training completely free.

[64] And let them coach you through.

[65] how to get your investment structured and how to get this mortgage redone and hands -on rather than trying to give you an insurance agent.

[66] I mean, give you an answer on the radio and certainly not going to give you an insurance agent.

[67] So, I mean, you may need some insurance.

[68] All insurance agents aren't evil.

[69] That's not what I'm saying.

[70] I am saying that if you ask a whole life agent, if you should buy a whole life 100 % of the time, they say, oh, yes, it's the answer to everything.

[71] And if you ask me, if you should buy a whole life, 100 % of the time, I say it's never the answer to anything.

[72] Yeah.

[73] And in her situation, she has the two kids.

[74] So you hit on the health.

[75] It's so dirty that he's taken advantage of that emotion.

[76] Yes.

[77] So that on the health side, but the other component of whole life of what people get sold on to is the investment idea, right?

[78] And she was even saying.

[79] Yeah, they have a high up front interest.

[80] So, but for her to know that there's other options on how to invest for your kids, that you actually will end up, they'll end up with more money.

[81] A whole lot more.

[82] Than versus even just, you know, this policy.

[83] Fruit jar, you'll end up with more than screwing around with the whole life insurance policy.

[84] Because at least if something happens, you've got the money in the jar.

[85] These people take it all.

[86] It's the payday lender of the middle class.

[87] That's how bad it sucks mathematically.

[88] It's absolutely a scummy product.

[89] And to play on a widow's emotions about her children might have, oh, God, that's particularly nasty.

[90] Yeah, you should be ashamed of your son.

[91] also are convinced agents are that it really is the best, right?

[92] I'm like they like, well, there's only two kinds.

[93] There's ones that are dumb and are convinced it's a good product because it's the only way you could convince yourself is if you can't do math or you're scum.

[94] Right.

[95] You know, or you're selling something you know is bad.

[96] So that's bad for people listening, though.

[97] Does it not give you a little bit of a chill to sell a widow her kid stuff based on the death of her dad?

[98] I mean, does that not just a little bit?

[99] hello people I mean that's nasty so well and the good thing is is that there's other avenues for both of these from the insurance routes there's all kinds of avenues totally so that's the that's the hopeful side is what happens all of it is better than this yeah and what happens you know I could imagine when she's sitting in their office and they're explaining it there's not there's not option A we could do whole life option B you could do term life and this and option C it's all one thing right it's like this is the only option and so just to know that there's hope that there's so many so many things out there for her to do, that she's going to be okay financially and her kids are going to be okay.

[100] Trying to give some hope.

[101] Trying to get some hope.

[102] Hang on.

[103] Christian will pick up, honey.

[104] We'll get you taken care of.

[105] No cost to you.

[106] Zero.

[107] This is the Ramsey show.

[108] So here's a quick math refresher.

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[115] dot com slash ramsay that's net suite .com slash ramsay rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co -host today it's wedding and graduation season and if you've been changed by what we teach and you want to help a graduate or maybe a young couple start out the way they're supposed to start out there's a cool way to do it we call it the live and give box in the live and give box i'm reaching for it here trying to get my youtube self together.

[116] The Total Money Makeover book, the Baby Steps Millionaire's book, two of my number one bestsellers, but most importantly, you get signed up for Financial Peace University, all in one kit.

[117] And boy, wouldn't you love to have started out your life with that?

[118] Hello!

[119] It's pretty cool.

[120] And if you've got a graduate out there too, Ken Coleman's book came out this week called Find the Work You're Wired to Do.

[121] It includes the Get Clear Career Assessment in it.

[122] And so, which is really important if you're going to get started, you know.

[123] And so, again, graduation and wedding season, not a bad gift, particularly graduates, right?

[124] And I know you've already got a degree in whatever, but, yeah, I want you to get clear on it and the live and give box.

[125] Check all of this at Ramsey Solutions .com in the store.

[126] If you want to go straight to the box, just Ramsey Solutions .com slash box for the live and give box.

[127] Bryce is with us in Louisville, Kentucky.

[128] Hey, Bryce, what's up?

[129] anything for having me sure how can I help um so I have around 34 ,000 saved up and um I make about 4 ,200 a month I spend probably 1 ,500 after bills and food and I was just wondering instead of me putting money into my 401k and instead could I just invest in real estate and like put but like rental properties up and so I can have an income at all times.

[130] Well, you don't have the money to buy a rental property.

[131] I was going to go and take out a FHA one.

[132] Yeah, which tells me you don't have the money to buy rental property.

[133] So, Bryce, what we have found is that the people that avoid debt, including rental properties, are the ones that prosper.

[134] I own a bunch of real estate, I love real estate.

[135] I'd love for you to own some real estate since you want to someday as a part of your life, but I want you to pay cash for it.

[136] Do you own the home you're living in?

[137] Yes.

[138] Okay.

[139] Is it paid off?

[140] Yes.

[141] Good, good for you.

[142] What's it worth?

[143] I got a praise last year.

[144] It's probably worth $120 ,000.

[145] Good for you.

[146] It was spending out, so I got it for $30.

[147] Wow, you got a deal.

[148] Good for you.

[149] Well, that's cool.

[150] So I'll tell you what I did.

[151] and I would recommend you do something similar, okay?

[152] We recommend that if you're out of debt and you have your emergency fund in place, then we do baby steps four, five, and six, and baby step four is 15 % of your income, which is, you know, you're making like $50 ,000, $60 ,000 a year, okay?

[153] And so we're talking about $7 ,000, $8 ,000 a year is all, okay?

[154] Going into your 401k Roth, preferably, if they have a Roth available, and with a match, that'd be wonderful, and some good mutual funds.

[155] Beyond that, I started saving once my house was paid off to buy my first real estate after I had gone broke in real estate by having too much debt.

[156] So, by the way, but yeah, so anyway, I just took an S &P fund and I started chunking money beyond my 15 % into that S &P, and when it got to be enough in there to pay cash for my first little rental, that's what I did.

[157] You're probably not that far from doing that.

[158] Like what price range would you spend for your first rental, Bryce?

[159] So I was going to buy a 10 -acre lot for $75 ,000, and then I can get a used trailer that was repossessed for $10 ,000.

[160] They redo it and everything, and then it cost me $5 ,000 to get it put in, and then I already have someone put it in my septic for $2 ,000.

[161] Problem is that won't go up in value, only the dirt will, not the trailer.

[162] So I would not invest in that as a rental because I want to invest in a home or a duplex or something that's going to go up in value, not go down in value.

[163] And so the only time I would look at trailers is if you bought a whole trailer park and they cash flow like a bandit.

[164] They make so much money, cash on cash return.

[165] It's unbelievable.

[166] But you've got the constant problem of taking them out of service because they deteriorate.

[167] Yeah.

[168] And you don't know.

[169] You don't want to take a nice subdivision, a good piece of dirt and put a trailer on it.

[170] Yeah.

[171] How old are you, Bryce?

[172] 19.

[173] You're 19.

[174] Yeah.

[175] You got plenty time to do this right.

[176] Yeah.

[177] And I would say too, Bryce, just to this point, it's going to take you, and you're a smart guy.

[178] I'm like, you're already at 19.

[179] You're like thinking of ways, how can I wheel and deal and, you know, make some money, which is so great.

[180] And then this process, it's going to take you longer.

[181] But I think having a goal as you do the math out and say, okay, how long will it take me to save up?

[182] Because where you are in Louisville, Kentucky, I'm like, save, you know, 150.

[183] thousand and go find a foreclosure at some point this may be years down the road and that be your first like find the deal on the on the sale and just say yeah this is me my first and you just slowly build but the frustrating thing about this process price is that it's slow but the great thing about it is that it carries so much peace with it it carries so much peace you're not stressed and by the way i've bought over 2 ,000 pieces of property and rachel's husband Winston does this for a living now it's what he does.

[184] He's in the real estate business.

[185] And he was trained here with me running my property.

[186] And so he's doing the, we're both doing the exact same things we're telling you to do.

[187] But we're just decades past you.

[188] We're, you know, 20, 30, 40 years beyond your process.

[189] But I remember the first time I finally got $150 ,000 saved up.

[190] And oddly enough, that's what it was, to buy that first property.

[191] And I had it laying there in that mutual fund.

[192] And then I looked and around, found a bargain.

[193] and um and there there we go you know and as soon as you get about three of these that you own that are paid for the rents coming off of three paid for properties are pure they're not going to the bank you're not paying any payments on them so that pure rent stacks up fast and you can buy another property ever so often just off of the rents that and you get a positive snowball and Winston and I what we've done too like there was a condo we got our very first rental was a condo um and in foreclosure nasty thing.

[194] It was like a one bedroom, one bath.

[195] I mean, it was not much.

[196] It was really nasty.

[197] It wasn't much.

[198] But we fixed it up, did it, and then eight years later, it doubled.

[199] And so we're like, well, we could sell that, go to and, you know, find another deal somewhere else.

[200] So you can even step up in property, too, as you go through this process.

[201] If you don't want to just hold on to it.

[202] You got rid of that junkie condo?

[203] We did.

[204] Wow.

[205] We did.

[206] That thing was like a family member.

[207] It had been around a while.

[208] It was your first line.

[209] It was your first.

[210] Winston was attached.

[211] Yeah.

[212] Not you.

[213] That was fine.

[214] I trusted him.

[215] I was like, if that's good.

[216] I did not know the junky condo is gone.

[217] That's cool.

[218] It wasn't junky anymore.

[219] It wasn't junky.

[220] It wasn't good to it.

[221] That's how I started out.

[222] But it is fun, Bryce.

[223] And I think that is, I think a lot of people are interested in that, like this idea that investing sounds boring, but it's a tried and true way to build wealth.

[224] So do it.

[225] But then the other, the other offshoot of investing in what you're talking about.

[226] And you're actually going to talk about it at y 'all's investing live stream coming up is real estate.

[227] And people really are interested.

[228] and it is it's a great you love it I mean it's a great it's a great way to kind of diversify even your wealth building when it comes to that I've made a lot more money in real estate than I have in mutual funds and I've also but I've also put more money in real estate because I'm a real estate person and the mutual funds so my personal net worth is probably 80 % real estate um yeah you know between mutual funds and real estate anyway not count of not this business that I own and that kind of stuff but yeah it's very interesting.

[229] So, Bryce, the key is it's very difficult at any age, but it's really difficult to go slow when you're 19.

[230] Please listen to the old people.

[231] Go slow.

[232] The people who go slow in real estate are the ones that are still doing it 20 years later.

[233] The ones that go fast get burned and they get to start over again, which is what I did when I was, I started buying real estate and was 22 and by the time I was 28, I was broke.

[234] And so went from nothing to a millionaire to broke between 22 and 28.

[235] And so I just don't want that for you.

[236] I want you just go slow.

[237] I don't want your face on the front of Fast Company magazine.

[238] I want your face on the front of Slow Company magazine.

[239] Slow real estate.

[240] Slow real estate magazine.

[241] Which is everybody in America right now, let's be honest.

[242] You're not going to be a TikTok sensation.

[243] I can promise you.

[244] Not if you're doing it right.

[245] This is the Ramsey Show.

[246] One of the questions I get all the time is, which life insurance company should I use for my term life policy?

[247] A valid question, since there are hundreds of companies out there, with rates all over the place in riders and add -ons that are simply a waste of money.

[248] You need to get this done and make the right decision.

[249] That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 25 years is Zander Insurance.

[250] Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend.

[251] They also save you time, whether you want to work online, over the phone, or via text, their team will cater to your needs and help you make the right decision.

[252] This is an absolute necessity, and Zander has made the process easy and convenient.

[253] Call them at 800 -356 -42 -82 or visit zander .com for instant online quotes.

[254] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt -free stage.

[255] Kevin and Katie are with us.

[256] Hey, guys, how are you?

[257] How are you?

[258] Good.

[259] Better than we deserve.

[260] Welcome.

[261] Where do you live?

[262] We're from Keene, New Hampshire.

[263] All right.

[264] A little northwest of Keen, New Hampshire.

[265] Fine.

[266] Welcome to Nashville.

[267] How much debt have you paid?

[268] $122 ,836.

[269] Good for you.

[270] And how long did this take?

[271] It was four years and two months.

[272] four years and two months good for you and your range of income during that time we started at about 60 ,000 and ended up at about 130 wow nice doubled your income in four years yes sir how'd you do that uh i asked my boss to just bury me in work and he obliged yes he did what do you what do you do i'm an independent insurance adjuster oh very good okay so it is you got it you can do that yes yep okay and uh what about you katy what do you do um I'm stay -at -home mom and homeschool mom.

[273] Love it.

[274] Good for you guys.

[275] Well done.

[276] All right.

[277] So this is all that income changes, all on your boss, burying you.

[278] Yeah, excellent.

[279] Pretty much.

[280] Good.

[281] Very good.

[282] Very cool.

[283] What kind of debt was this 123?

[284] It was a multitude of just about everything.

[285] Student loans, two cars, credit cards, medical bills.

[286] I don't think I'm missing anything else.

[287] Yeah, about that.

[288] Just normal.

[289] You were normal.

[290] Yeah.

[291] How long have you all been married?

[292] Almost 13 years.

[293] So nine years into the marriage, give or take, eight years into the marriage, something happened.

[294] What happened?

[295] Well, first off, we just want to thank you and thank God for putting that blessing and that call on your heart to help us and help the millions of people that you've helped so far and will continue to help.

[296] And that's really where our journey began is getting into our Bible and getting back to those biblical principles that are buried in there that we just needed to go find.

[297] and you really brought them to light for so many people and including us.

[298] But when about four years ago, almost five years ago, we went in to go get diapers for our middle child at the time.

[299] And I went through probably about three or four different cards, and I couldn't buy them.

[300] And I walked out back to the car and sat down next to Katie and said, we can't do this anymore.

[301] Yeah.

[302] I can't buy it.

[303] I can't break a dad's heart.

[304] Yep.

[305] I couldn't buy diapers from my daughter.

[306] Yeah, that'll put it into it.

[307] And so you go home and you're like, okay, we're selling everything.

[308] Yep.

[309] We pulled the old book off the shelf because the book went through eight different moves with us.

[310] And never read it.

[311] Nope.

[312] No, no. Which one?

[313] Total money makeover?

[314] Yeah.

[315] It was the workbook actually.

[316] We hear that a lot.

[317] We hear this a lot.

[318] This is a very common story.

[319] Total money makeover.

[320] America's coaster on your coffee table.

[321] Yeah.

[322] Exactly.

[323] Oh my gosh.

[324] So, Katie, when that moment happens, you're sitting there.

[325] in the car are you thinking oh thank god let's do something or were you like wait is it that bad oh gosh like what was your reaction in that moment yeah i mean it was just like a feeling of dread like yeah everything that we've done trying to live normal just didn't work like at all for us it all came crashing down yeah um and then yeah we were pretty much all in we talked to our um our pastor at our church and they were offering fp u oh good yeah so we got in a class right away we had to travel like an hour for it yeah we drove an hour for it yeah to conquered new hampshire wow um and then shortly thereafter the next February of 2020 we led our first class ourselves wow yeah so literally a couple months after we got out we decided yeah we're going to lead our own class and then right in the middle is when COVID hit yeah of course yeah January of 2020 yeah of course oh man what what's debt was it for you guys that you were like, oh, it's gone.

[326] I'm so glad.

[327] I'm so glad it's gone.

[328] Cardiffarts.

[329] Oh, for you?

[330] It was student loans for me. Okay, okay, okay.

[331] Yep, it was that last one where it was just over the hump, especially during when you're right in the middle of it all.

[332] And the longer that you're doing it, the higher the debt is that you're trying to pay off.

[333] So that snowball, it works, but we.

[334] The mountains to climb.

[335] Yeah.

[336] On the back of it, it's steep.

[337] It was 50 ,000, so it was almost half of our debt.

[338] It was the student loans at the end.

[339] Yep.

[340] Yep.

[341] And we paid that all off in one year.

[342] We were just, that was our last year.

[343] Whoa.

[344] See, the half of it in three years and the other half in one year.

[345] Yeah, we had a baby along the way.

[346] So that slowed us down and I had a surgery as well right after I had the baby.

[347] Oh, my gosh.

[348] Life definitely happened.

[349] Then that math is fair.

[350] Yeah, that's good.

[351] That's good.

[352] Way to go, guys.

[353] Thank you.

[354] You persevered.

[355] You kept with it.

[356] You kept with it.

[357] You kept with it.

[358] Why didn't you quit?

[359] Well, you saw one of them coming up on the stage.

[360] I don't ever want to have that feeling again.

[361] I've not been able to buy diapers.

[362] Yep.

[363] I can't wait to buy somebody a pack of diapers that's struggling with their cards that I see at Target or Walmart or whatever.

[364] Wow.

[365] I can't wait to go and buy.

[366] You may buy a whole bunch of diapers in your life before this is over.

[367] God may just keep putting them in line in front of you.

[368] Yep.

[369] Yep.

[370] We'll just keep on blessing.

[371] I love it.

[372] That's fabulous.

[373] What do you guys say to families out there?

[374] Because I have three little ones too.

[375] I just know life is just tiring, right?

[376] You're in a really tiring season and you're home all day with the kids while he's working extra, right?

[377] So you probably feel like a single mom half the time while he's gone.

[378] You're exhausted.

[379] So what do you say to families out there listening and they're like, this is just not the time.

[380] This isn't the time to do it.

[381] We're so tired.

[382] We're barely getting by.

[383] Like, I don't know.

[384] I don't know.

[385] What would you say to them?

[386] I would just tell them to continue to communicate with each other because that's been the key to this whole thing.

[387] Don't give up to keep.

[388] on going, no matter how grueling it gets, no matter how long the days are, no matter how much time that you feel like you don't spend with your kids, they're still going to be there.

[389] They're very resilient.

[390] They're still licking lollipops and laughing along the way.

[391] But just to keep on going, don't give up.

[392] Yeah.

[393] That's good.

[394] It's never too late to start.

[395] I mean, we were married for years and years.

[396] And at one point, we had said, we're always going to have a car payment.

[397] Always.

[398] It came out of his mouth.

[399] And now we're never going to have a car coming again.

[400] It's not like a statement of principle.

[401] It's a statement of hopelessness.

[402] Yeah, exactly.

[403] We've been there.

[404] And you can turn it around.

[405] You can turn your perspective around.

[406] So good, you guys.

[407] Oh, amazing.

[408] Well, thanks to your pastor for teaching Financial Peace University at his church, and it was there at just the right time.

[409] It was.

[410] It was.

[411] It was.

[412] So great.

[413] Very cool.

[414] Good for you guys.

[415] I'm so proud of you.

[416] Thank you.

[417] Well done.

[418] Your heroes.

[419] Thanks.

[420] Your heroes to those little kids.

[421] You changed their whole family tree.

[422] So well done, y 'all.

[423] Thank you.

[424] well done.

[425] You're on the opposite of the spectrum from not being able to buy diapers to bind diapers for the rest of your life.

[426] There you go.

[427] For other people this time.

[428] There we go.

[429] I like it.

[430] If you live like no one else later, you can live and give like no one else.

[431] That's how that works.

[432] All right.

[433] Bring the kiddos up.

[434] What are their names and ages?

[435] So we've got Isaiah is nine, Mia is five, and Levi is three.

[436] All right.

[437] And we've got matching dresses with mom.

[438] That's pretty cool.

[439] It's so cute.

[440] I like that.

[441] They've been practicing their debt -free scream on the car right here.

[442] All the way down.

[443] From New Hampshire to Tennessee, that's a lot of practice.

[444] Lots of Advil.

[445] For you.

[446] Very good, guys.

[447] I'm so proud of y 'all.

[448] Thank you.

[449] You're amazing.

[450] You've done something that's absolutely not normal.

[451] Be not conform to this world, but be transformed by the, renewing of your minds.

[452] You're amazing.

[453] Thank you so much.

[454] Thank you.

[455] Well, well done.

[456] All right.

[457] Kevin and Katie, Isaiah, Mia, and Levi.

[458] $123 ,000 paid off in four years and two months, making 60 to 130 of buried in my work.

[459] Count it down.

[460] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[461] Three, two, one, we're debt -free.

[462] Oh, very good.

[463] Good.

[464] Very cool.

[465] Cute kids.

[466] I think Mia wins the award maybe.

[467] I know.

[468] She got it down and then went right back to the lollipop right after the screen.

[469] Very well done.

[470] Good stuff, you guys.

[471] Very cool.

[472] So encouraging.

[473] You can do this at any stage of life with any income, with any situation.

[474] When you decide to change, that's when things change.

[475] No external force is going to do it.

[476] No matter who's in the world.

[477] White House, you've still got to fix you.

[478] This is the Ramsey Show.

[479] This show is sponsored by BetterHelp.

[480] Hey good folks, the back -to -school madness is upon us.

[481] It's hitting us right now.

[482] We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on.

[483] My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects.

[484] And those are the things that make our our life even worth living.

[485] Here's what I've learned.

[486] When it comes to taking care of me, I have to put on my oxygen mask first.

[487] And that means that I have to do the things that keep me well and whole.

[488] And I know that you have to do those same things too.

[489] So don't skip the things that matter to you, including regular exercise, hanging out with your friends and regular therapy appointments.

[490] And when it comes to therapy, contact my friends at BetterHelp.

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[496] Call my friends at BetterHelp.

[497] Visit BetterHelp .com slash Deloney today for 10 % off your first month.

[498] That's BetterHelp, H -E -L -P .com slash Deloni.

[499] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey, Personality is my co -host today.

[500] Clayton is with us in Charleston, South Carolina.

[501] Hi, Clayton.

[502] How are you?

[503] I'm good.

[504] How are y 'all?

[505] Better than we deserve.

[506] What's up?

[507] So I got a question for you all.

[508] My wife and I just bought our first house.

[509] and I'm currently a UPS driver.

[510] I make $30 .70 an hour, and my wife is a daughter's assistant.

[511] She makes about 23 an hour.

[512] So overall, we make a little over $100 ,000 a year, which is great.

[513] But I just got recently a job offer.

[514] It is a pay cut, but it is a better quality of life.

[515] We have no debt other than our house.

[516] We owe $244 ,000 left on our house.

[517] We put about $70 ,000 down on the house.

[518] And I just want to know, what do you think I should do?

[519] Should I stay where I'm currently at and work to pay this house off?

[520] Or should I take this job and get a better quality of life?

[521] When you say - I'm able to be around with my family and, you know, I'm able to start having kids with my wife and everything.

[522] so we don't have any kids right now so your family's your wife yes okay and I'm confused how many hours a week are you working as a UPS driver anywhere between 55 to 60 hours a week are you able to cut back on just your hours there if you wanted to unfortunately no the way it worked is whenever you start is the start time that they give us and then whenever you're When you're finished delivering is when you're finished.

[523] So when claim...

[524] Unfortunately, there's nothing else.

[525] Okay.

[526] What's the price, like the...

[527] What are you going to be making, the difference in income?

[528] So currently I'm 3075, and then the new job will be $25 .38 an hour.

[529] And have you run...

[530] It's about a $5 jump.

[531] Okay.

[532] Yeah.

[533] And have you guys run the math on...

[534] It's not a $5 jump because you're going to be doing 40 hours instead of 55.

[535] Correct.

[536] So it's a 50.

[537] percent pay cut.

[538] Because you're not going to be working as many hours and you're going to be making less per hour.

[539] Correct.

[540] Have you guys run a budget to see like to just to see, hey, if I took this new job and with the pay cut and the hours I'm going to be working, here's what we have left.

[541] And like this is, this will be our life financially.

[542] Have you guys run those numbers?

[543] We have, but I just feel like we're missing something and.

[544] Yeah, you're running it.

[545] 55, you're running it by the hour.

[546] That's what you're missing.

[547] Right.

[548] You need to run the actual totals.

[549] And then you're going to realize that you're taking a $35 ,000 your pay cut.

[550] No, you don't need to take this job.

[551] That's bull crap.

[552] You weren't looking for a job.

[553] This thing popped up and it's not the answer to your problem.

[554] Okay.

[555] Well, I was looking for a job.

[556] Okay.

[557] Well, C is what you want.

[558] You want a job that pays what UPS is paying without working 55 hours.

[559] Not by the hour.

[560] by the total.

[561] So I want you to find a career.

[562] You're making about $70 ,000 a year, right?

[563] Yes, sir.

[564] Okay.

[565] And I also get a pay jump this year, too.

[566] Good.

[567] I want you to find a career that pays $70 ,000 to $80 ,000 a year and start working your way towards that career, working 40 hours or so.

[568] Now, I've done work for UPS, speaking to your guys' executives, and I know a bunch of Ups drivers and retired Ups people.

[569] It's a great place.

[570] The stock plan is incredible.

[571] I mean, and I don't know exactly how where you are, what you're doing works, but my feeling would be Clayton that you could probably pick another route over time that got your hours down.

[572] Yeah, I was going to say.

[573] As you move up in seniority, right?

[574] Is that not how it works?

[575] Yeah, as you move up in seniority, you can get a better route and stuff.

[576] But there's, at my center, there's over 100 drivers, and I'm currently like number 70.

[577] So that's going to be like 10, 15 years.

[578] No, it's not.

[579] No, it's not.

[580] They don't stay.

[581] You got turnover in there.

[582] They don't all have to die off.

[583] and so I think you need to talk to some guys around there and find out how long it's going to take you to get into a more reasonable route situation where you can control the thing because you're a low man on the totem pole right now so you're getting crappy runs that have long hours of course holidays you've got crappy runs that have long hours it just goes with your territory but UPS is a company of work hard and pays well that's the company right they have a real work ethic culture.

[584] It's one of the reasons that they were attracted to me and vice versa.

[585] So it's been many years ago that I did that.

[586] But just the same.

[587] I came away from my time working with their executive teams and stuff with a respect for your all's culture.

[588] And so, but no, I think if you want to work less hours, you need to figure out how long it's going to take you to get there at UPS as a possibility.

[589] Also say, okay, what career field can I start moving towards?

[590] And if it takes me a little while to get towards that career with some of the steps that King Coleman outlines, I would do that.

[591] But this presupposing that I'm going to cut my pay in half so I can work 40 hours and so I can be home with the dog.

[592] Nah.

[593] Nah.

[594] Clayton, how old are you?

[595] Can I ask you that?

[596] How old are you?

[597] Yeah, I'm 26 and my wife is 27.

[598] I actually wanted to say something else real quick, too.

[599] with this new job, my hours will be 40 a week, but I go in at 6 and I clock out at 2.

[600] So it gives me the opportunity to pick up a second job.

[601] So where's the quality of life increase, dude?

[602] Well, no. Now you're back to 55 hours a week and you're just making less.

[603] I guess, yeah.

[604] Yeah.

[605] And now you picked up a side hustle.

[606] So you're wearing, you know, unless that side hustle is taking you into something where you want to be when you're 36.

[607] No. no I wouldn't do that um I'm not saying UPS is the end all to be all I'm not if you if you want out of there I'll help you get out of there hang on I'm going to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book uh this new one find the work you're wired to do they get clear assessment and I want you to take that assessment I want you start thinking about what you really want to be not just what you make what is it you want to do with your life and I will tell you folks out there aside from this um I'm not about work I'm not about you abandoning your family in the name of work and never knowing your children's names or anything like that.

[608] I didn't do that when our kids were growing up.

[609] I went through a season where I worked my tail off 16 -hour days, but it was a season.

[610] It was not a lifestyle.

[611] And the children were little bitty and, you know, their mother would tell you that she was a single mom during that time.

[612] But she and I talked it through.

[613] It's what we were doing to start this place that I operate today.

[614] It was the foundation of this place in the 90s.

[615] D's.

[616] I was doing that.

[617] And so it was a period of time.

[618] I meet almost no one who has a high quality life that has left their mark on their family and on this earth that does it on 40 hours.

[619] Just, I'm going to work 40 hours my whole life.

[620] You're just, you know, yeah, for a period of time, if you're training for a marathon, you have to sweat.

[621] Now, do you have to do that every single day?

[622] No, when you finish, you know, when you hit the next time, you take a little time down, okay?

[623] But you work like no one else so that later you can work like no one else.

[624] And, you know, you're just now getting involved and I don't know, I guess all your friends are out partying while you're working because you're 24.

[625] And, you know, that's going to show, or you're 26, they're going to show up in their lives.

[626] There's seasons of sacrifice.

[627] And for Clayton, and I don't know, I'm just making this up, but I'm like, yeah, there could be a season.

[628] You're an entry level guy.

[629] You got the crappy route.

[630] And you do that for two years and then you get a better route, better pay.

[631] And you know what I mean?

[632] But like there's, you don't get to start off.

[633] And not that he's saying this, but you don't get to start off, you know, at the top necessarily.

[634] And so it was funny.

[635] I was doing career day at my third graders.

[636] So they said, where did you start off?

[637] I was like, I started off going to assemblies in high schools all across America.

[638] And I did that for like, you know, three years.

[639] Got paid Zip.

[640] I didn't get paid.

[641] I mean, who knows where in these.

[642] Nebraska.

[643] Yeah, these small towns and all of it.

[644] But, you know, again, there's just there is that level of sacrifice but then there's a clip going around on you on on on on the socials and you're like work 80 hours a week so everyone does think that you're just like a work oh god well i know everybody that wants to bitch and moan some of that just but yeah if you want something to whine about you can find a clip of me to whine about that's not hard i've done 50 000 hours of radio there's plenty of me saying something out of context that'll get you where you want to go for your little tic -tock click through this is the ramsie show live from the headquarters of ramsie solutions it's the ramsie show where we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships rachel cruz number one bestselling author including her two book series so far on children's books i'm glad for where i am just a recent bestseller for your kiddos is the second one in that series be sure and check it out She's my co -host today and my daughter.

[645] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[646] Katie's in Minneapolis.

[647] Hi, Katie.

[648] How are you?

[649] Hi, good.

[650] Thank you.

[651] How are you?

[652] Better than I deserve.

[653] What's up?

[654] I'm calling me because I have a daughter who's going to be graduating college this month.

[655] She's going to have about $80 ,000 in student loan debt.

[656] Good Lord.

[657] I know.

[658] So here's the thing.

[659] My husband and I knew inheritance money would be coming our way, so we didn't.

[660] push back on her going out of state where there's higher tuition and we didn't really tell her we would pay for her college but we told her we'd figure it out because we thought we might be able to do that and that would be money coming from his side and my side so my husband and I divorced when she was a sophomore in college and then after the divorce I did get my inheritance money and so I have enough to pay it in full and I want to do that very much I want to help my daughter the only thing I'm just wondering is should I pay it in full or have him ask him he would be willing if he had the money he's just kind of, I don't know if he hasn't right now to take on half of that burden of helping her does he have the $40 ,000 not right now he does not Okay.

[661] Does the divorce decree demand that you two pay this, or is this just something you all sort of kind of had a discussion about once way back there and never talked about it again?

[662] Correct.

[663] There's nothing in the divorce decree on this.

[664] Yeah.

[665] Your ex -husband is not going to give her any money.

[666] Well, yeah.

[667] I think he wants to, and he would if he could.

[668] So that's where I'm thinking what I could do is just pay it in full and then ask him.

[669] to pay me later, but I don't think I will ever heed that.

[670] I mean, if you're on speaking terms with him and you want to pay it in full, say, I just paid it off.

[671] One time we talked about it and you said you'd pay half if you can ever give her the other 40, maybe she could use that towards a house or something.

[672] Okay.

[673] Yeah, because it was a quite, oh, go ahead.

[674] Yeah, that's okay.

[675] So if you can have that conversation, that would be fine.

[676] But then forget it.

[677] It's over.

[678] you know you don't get to go back later and go where's that money right right you just you just drop it you made a decision and you made a comment and you moved on that's what I would do because otherwise it's going to ride around rent free in your head yeah and we're in quite more friendly it's quite an amicable situation not relative if he doesn't ever give her money yeah and it bothers you and you lay awake and he doesn't and think about it again.

[679] You'll be the only one thinking about this on the planet.

[680] How much did you get from the inheritance, Katie?

[681] Well, quite a bit.

[682] I was able to buy my own home after the divorce with it.

[683] What's quite a bit?

[684] How much did you get?

[685] Do you feel comfortable saying it or no?

[686] Sorry.

[687] Just under a million.

[688] Okay.

[689] So you have a paid off house.

[690] How are you doing financially?

[691] Because that's almost what I want to make sure that, you know, this money's being because I mean it's 80 grand so I'm like I want to make sure Katie you're set up well for your future retirement I mean like looking like we talk about doing that laying that foundation for the parent first before the kids and so yeah making sure that yeah where you are financially is in a good spot so you bought your house outright so you have no mortgage correct and how are you doing with retirement investments and everything um I am I think I'm I have $700 ,000 in an IRA, well, in the IRA 85 and a 401K.

[692] The house is worth what?

[693] $500 ,000.

[694] And you're how old?

[695] 55.

[696] Cool.

[697] So you're a 55 -year -old married, I mean, divorced millionaire.

[698] Cool.

[699] That's neat.

[700] Well, thanks to my mom.

[701] I know.

[702] And so we want to honor that memory by being wise.

[703] If I'm in your shoes, yes, I would write a check based on what you have told me and pay off your daughter's student loans.

[704] And yes, I would make a phone call to the X and say, hey, remember when we said that?

[705] I just paid the whole thing.

[706] When you get ready to pay her your half like you promised someday, she can use that for her first house or something else.

[707] And I'm not letting you off the hook.

[708] I want you to know I had done it, though.

[709] And drop it after that.

[710] Forget it ever happened.

[711] Just walk away and never think a thing about it again.

[712] Can you do that?

[713] I can do that.

[714] Okay.

[715] Because I don't want this becoming this constant thing, like, when's he going to do his part, you know, and all that?

[716] Because you're doing your, the only person you can control is you.

[717] And you can't control him.

[718] And, you know, you're saying it's amicable and he intends to and you have faith in him.

[719] You know, I've just been doing this 35 years.

[720] My faith in the X following through on a promise is fairly low.

[721] You know, it's just fairly low.

[722] I just see, you know, I guess nobody calls this show and says, oh, my ex followed through.

[723] That doesn't happen.

[724] We hear the bad.

[725] We get only the other ones, yeah, but, but yeah, I just wanted to let you know, Dave.

[726] No, I mean, that, because I guess some of them do, but I mean, we just don't run into it.

[727] And thank God for, you know, that she, oh, I hate to say that because it was her mom's passing, so I didn't mean that.

[728] But just that she's in the situation she's in because that's another reason why we say don't take on debt because life happens.

[729] And they had this plan.

[730] Yeah.

[731] and then end up getting divorced in the middle of school and if this inheritance hadn't come this daughter, you know, if it's a parent plus loan I'm like, yeah, both could be on the hook, but also, I don't know what the daughter signed, I don't know how they did the student loan agreement, but I don't know the daughter signed up for it.

[732] Yeah, she could have been 80, I mean, she would have been 80 grants thinking like we'll take care of it too.

[733] So that's the asterisk two of the story is that you're taking on risk always, always, always, always when you take on this debt and life rarely plays out exactly how we have it planned out.

[734] Like never.

[735] Yeah.

[736] So it's just that word of caution.

[737] But Katie, I'm so sorry.

[738] That's a hard season, Katie, you know, losing your mom, the divorce in the middle of it.

[739] And it's just, that's hard.

[740] That's really hard.

[741] But this is a redeeming, beautiful thing that you'll be able to do from a financial aspect to be wise with.

[742] So I'm glad you called in.

[743] Very good.

[744] Very cool.

[745] Good stuff.

[746] So, yeah, the cool thing about.

[747] student loans is they shouldn't be there at all.

[748] Almost all of student loan debt is based on someone choosing to go to a school that they could have gone to a cheaper school and paid cash.

[749] Almost every time you're choosing a school you can't afford, just like choosing a car you can't afford.

[750] And so I can buy a car to drive around for $5 ,000.

[751] I have $5 ,000.

[752] or I can buy a $50 ,000 car because it's a nicer car and go $45 ,000 in debt.

[753] That's a choice.

[754] It wasn't a requirement to have transportation.

[755] It was you chose poorly and you choose to go to school.

[756] You freaking can't afford.

[757] Moms and dads, you need to teach you need to learn a new word.

[758] No. It's a new word.

[759] Try it.

[760] No. Everybody practice with me. No. This is the Ramsey Show.

[761] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[762] I was going over my notes this morning to get ready to speak this weekend at the Total Money Makeover weekend.

[763] I am so excited to get to do this.

[764] I haven't done the classic Total Money Makeover material in a while, and I'm getting to do some stuff I haven't done before.

[765] This Total Money Makeover weekend, I'll be speaking, of course, Rachel, Jade, George Camel, Ken Coleman on how to get your income up, John Deloney on how to bring more peace to your life overall, getting out of debt, creating a budget, communicating better with your spouse, easing anxiety, investing in building for retirement.

[766] And it's a whole thing.

[767] We start on Friday night this coming weekend and go all through Saturday and live taping of the hit podcast Smart Money Happy Hour with Rachel and George.

[768] We've got live Q &A all through the thing.

[769] It is going to be an absolute blast.

[770] And there's still some tickets left, sadly.

[771] I thought it would be sold out by now, but I was wrong.

[772] So we'd love to have you guys.

[773] It's right here on the Ramsey campus this coming Friday, May 10th, and 11th.

[774] You could come a little early and watch the show be done.

[775] We do the show every day from one to four central time on the glass, following that, grab a bite to eat somewhere, and then come on up up on top of the hill to the Ramsey Event Center, and we'll be doing the event.

[776] So you can get your tickets at Ramsey Solutions.

[777] dot com slash events and a handful of tickets left you can still get in and we're excited about doing this yeah it's going to be a fun weekend it's always fun our events are always enjoyable and we'll all be there and I like that it's so money focused the whole weekend which will be great yeah you'll laugh you'll cry you can bring that spouse that needs to be converted or that friend that thinks you're crazy and they will leave being as crazy as you yeah that can happen Daniel's with us in Tallahassee.

[778] Hi, Daniel.

[779] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[780] Hey, Dave, Rachel.

[781] How are you guys doing?

[782] Better than we deserve, sir.

[783] What's up?

[784] All right, just a quick question.

[785] So basically, after some convincing, I did get my wife on board.

[786] We are both on board when it comes to attacking our debt.

[787] I want to be good at Stanton if I can borrow the language you guys use.

[788] She wants to be more on the intentional side while still taking care of things that she thinks are still important.

[789] So I'm the grumpy guy who says, I don't want to do nothing.

[790] No more Christmas, no more gifts, no more nothing.

[791] Did you say no more Christmas?

[792] Well, no more.

[793] Yeah, I want, yes, like this.

[794] Well, no wonder you're unpopular Grinch.

[795] Yeah, I am the Grinch.

[796] I'm not a big, only because I'm like, how can we strip down to the bare minimum?

[797] Oh, I'll go with that.

[798] But, I mean, you start with Christmas?

[799] I mean, I'm cutting some of your stuff before we're getting to Christmas, buddy.

[800] Oh, my gosh.

[801] No wonder she's not enthused about you.

[802] So my question, well, I guess I introduced it to, we both, I introduced it to thinking funds, and now we, it seems like we're starting to have a growing amount of sinking funds so we can stop dealing with things that they come up, and it's helped.

[803] We have the money when we need it, but I feel like the sinking fund are taking a little too much of the margin.

[804] and I would like to attack the debt at a more aggressive speed.

[805] So I don't know how to compromise with her.

[806] And we're running at different paces here, it seems like.

[807] What are the sinking funds for?

[808] Let me pull up every dollar just to give a few examples here.

[809] But so every year, I'm going.

[810] She's pretty on board.

[811] She's soon, every dollar.

[812] Okay, keep going.

[813] Sorry, go ahead.

[814] For instance, the homeschool program every year comes around around August, September.

[815] We pay for that.

[816] We used to go into debt for that, but we stopped doing that since.

[817] We stopped this whole day.

[818] How is that a waste?

[819] It's not a waste.

[820] No, some of these are not a waste.

[821] We need a, for instance, that's one of these things that's bothering you.

[822] Give us a waste.

[823] That one's not bothering you.

[824] If it is, you got an issue.

[825] My girl's, my daughter's birthday.

[826] It's coming up.

[827] This is so bad.

[828] Now that I realize, okay, but she wants, we're saving up some of that because.

[829] How much are we planning to spend on the daughter's birthday?

[830] I have twin girls, so it's, we're setting aside at 100 a month.

[831] You're going to spend $1 ,200 on a birthday party?

[832] No, no, no, no, it's about 500.

[833] It's coming in August.

[834] So it's just $250 a kid.

[835] Right, right.

[836] Okay, so your argument is that that might be too much.

[837] No, I feel like they start and all add up.

[838] Well, they're adding up because they're real.

[839] I mean, that food thing, it adds up.

[840] Yeah, because I think, Daniel, there could be an instance of like, oh, my gosh, life is expensive where y 'all have just been charging everything.

[841] You said the homeschool stuff, we just go in the debt for it.

[842] You almost just delayed everything.

[843] And now when you're paying for stuff so up front, it is going to feel like, yeah, that there is more.

[844] Yeah, you're actually admitting what's going on now by doing a budget with sinking funds and you weren't before.

[845] So I, unless it's a vacation, right?

[846] Gazellant tense, I would say, yeah, we don't do vacations.

[847] Let's pause 12 months on the vacation.

[848] vacation eating out eating out we're going to pause like a couple of things to do but um yeah but the reality of life and what life costs may be the thing that's like oh crap this this is this is a lot and when we're cash flowing everything like what we teach you really face oh my gosh our life is eating up so much of our money because life is expensive so there could be stuff that you guys tweak here or there um but yeah so daniel it sounds like that um um I don't think you're on as different a page as you think you are.

[849] I think your argument's not with her.

[850] It's with reality you're struggling.

[851] And so let's give it a month or two and just kind of see if this, see if the emotions of this iron out.

[852] Okay.

[853] I appreciate and embrace your enthusiasm.

[854] I appreciate and embrace your passion to get this done.

[855] Those are keys to getting it done.

[856] And so you keep that part going.

[857] Yeah.

[858] But just don't, I don't think she's to blame.

[859] Nothing you gave me here was like that she's acting like she's not intense.

[860] I mean, we're going to buy clothes and we're going to buy food and we're going to pay for the homeschool materials and, you know, we're going to have a birthday party.

[861] It might be a little high, but it's not, it's not, you know, it's not throwing you off by two years.

[862] Yeah, right.

[863] You didn't tell me you spent 12 ,000 or 12.

[864] If you just said 1 ,200, I'd probably say, well, that's a bit much.

[865] But yeah, but the, and it depends on the, of the kid and all that kind of stuff too i mean if you got twin one -year -olds they don't even know you're doing this so you're doing it for you so then that's a different thing so uh you know but it but if they're twin 10 -year -olds they definitely know they know everything about what's happening there and i guess a uh a visit to the magic mouse mr cheezy what's his name chucky cheecey Chucky Cheesy.

[866] Yeah, the magic mouse.

[867] I guess that's probably a couple hundred bucks.

[868] I was like Mickey Mouse?

[869] I guess, no, I think I'm thinking Chuckie's probably a couple of hundred bucks to go down there.

[870] I mean, per kid.

[871] Yeah, I mean, those birthday parties at those places, you're paying per kid.

[872] Yeah.

[873] So I mean, the packages.

[874] It can be too.

[875] I mean, you've had them down there.

[876] I don't know what they cost.

[877] But I've been down there when it happened.

[878] It's probably 20 bucks a kid, 30 bucks a kid for the unlimited stuff.

[879] Me and the mouse are in there now.

[880] We've drug day.

[881] Jucky cheese.

[882] And or trampoline.

[883] parks there's been a lot of great birthday parties a lot of great birthday parties there's not enough disinfectant in the world there are some there are some rose it's full kids yeah little sweaty kids all over all the yeah it's just nasty but yeah i'm guessing that i mean i've been to those with the grandkids and I'm guessing you guys are shelling out a couple hundred bucks.

[884] So, yeah, I would say if you're getting out of debts, the birthday party is probably at home, you're ordering some pizza, having some friends over and calling it a day.

[885] I mean, like, you know what I mean?

[886] If you're going to go just like the simple routes.

[887] Yeah.

[888] And it can be done.

[889] Like, it's, that's possible.

[890] But the thing here, Daniel, I think, is, as we talk through this with you, everything you brought to us were things that were not out of bounds.

[891] And so it didn't sound like your wife with the sinking funds is like destroying your little plan.

[892] it's more like reality is destroying your little plan and dampering your enthusiasm.

[893] And it's actually a really great point.

[894] I hadn't thought about that.

[895] But for a lot of people that are starting this process, when you say no debt so that we can pay off debt, then those expenses are real.

[896] It's not this like, oh, we can just worry about that later.

[897] It's like the can down the road.

[898] But then that's the power too, though, to his point, is that's when you can cut some of those things.

[899] You're like, oh my gosh, what were we paying for that?

[900] Maybe there's a cheaper homeschool program or whatever.

[901] right like that's when you actually start caring about the expenses because you're you're seeing it in real time and in real life rachel cruise ramsi personality is my co -host today in the lobby of ramsie solutions is the debt -free stage on the debt -free stage is rubin and kirsten hi guys how are you we're awesome hey dave welcome good to have you good to have you so where do you guys live coloras springs colorado colorado all right well welcome to nashville good to have you And how much debt of you two paid off?

[902] We paid off to $170 ,000 in five years.

[903] Wow.

[904] Good for you.

[905] And your range of income during that time?

[906] We started at $72 ,000 and then went up to $112.

[907] Very good.

[908] Very good.

[909] What do you do for a living?

[910] We both work in the finance department of a software supply chain management company.

[911] Okay.

[912] Same place?

[913] Same company?

[914] That's fun.

[915] Did you guys meet there?

[916] We actually met at a different location and we worked together.

[917] the entire time we've known each other just different places that's awesome so great so how long have you been married um it'll be six years next month so right after marriage boom boom we're getting out of debt yeah five years game on what kind of debt was the 270 this was our house you paid off your house oh oh my gosh looking at a couple of weirdos I love it you're so weird what's this house worth um probably about 425 I love it and how old are you two weirdos 30 30 years old.

[918] No, I'm 31.

[919] He's 35.

[920] Okay.

[921] Close enough.

[922] Close enough.

[923] Robin's trying to get some youth.

[924] Good, good move, Robin.

[925] Well played.

[926] Yeah.

[927] I like it.

[928] Hey, very good guys.

[929] In your early 30s, that's amazing.

[930] So you get married and is this the only debt you've been working on or do you pay off others before that?

[931] So it started about eight years ago, but we cash flowed my bachelor's degree.

[932] Our wedding, our honeymoon to Alaska, just saved like crazy.

[933] And then during the payoff, we financed.

[934] or not finance, sorry, we paid off about 50 ,000 in home renovations.

[935] Yeah, and paid 270.

[936] Yes.

[937] Way to go, guys.

[938] What in the world happened to y 'all that made you so weird?

[939] This is wonderful.

[940] Like a year after marriage, it's game on on the house.

[941] Yeah, basically started for me about eight years ago, driving home from work and a job that I hated and just really wasn't happy about who I was and where I was at in life.

[942] Turned you on.

[943] You just happened to be extra.

[944] Turn on the radio.

[945] You just happen to be on the radio and never listened to the radio back then.

[946] And heard your voice, heard your name before, but I had never truly listened to you.

[947] And some context, my grandparents, my dad, there's been huge influences on my life.

[948] They basically practice your principles from day one, you know, pay cash for things.

[949] I live on lest you made God's and Grandma's ways of handling money.

[950] And when I heard you, like, that instantly clicked for me. So I was super just intrigued at that moment.

[951] but I also just loved how raw you were with the collars, you know.

[952] I don't want to see you in a restaurant without, you know, unless you're working there.

[953] You need to sell your truck, you know.

[954] So, like, I was pumped up, just listening to you.

[955] And, you know, you really started talking about changing your family tree and talking about things that really hit me hard, changing about who you are, changing, you know, really just owning up to yourself and taking control of your life.

[956] And that hit me hard because, yeah, just.

[957] When I heard that, I looked at myself in the mirror and I was like, if I'm ever going to have the things that I love and really want my life, then I need to, I need to do something about it.

[958] I didn't have a money problem.

[959] I just had a me problem.

[960] So thank you.

[961] That's amazing.

[962] And that's it.

[963] I'm like, that's the key for so many people.

[964] It's that awakening of like, oh my gosh, I can do this.

[965] Like I can wake up tomorrow and make different decisions.

[966] It's so empowering.

[967] So you guys had babies during this time.

[968] How old are the kids?

[969] Isaac is two and Ruby is seven months.

[970] Okay.

[971] Okay.

[972] So you all have little ones.

[973] So what was the hardest part of this?

[974] I mean, this is a lot of money, you guys, that you paid off, a lot of, I'm sure, extra work and everything.

[975] But, yeah, what was difficult?

[976] I think just stay in the track, you know, it could have been really easy to divert the plan or, you know, just make other decisions.

[977] We've had hail damaged cars are pretty much whole legs, you know, we just don't care.

[978] But it could have been really easy to move, to divert, but we had a better purpose, and we knew we were bringing kids into the world at some point.

[979] Was it worth it?

[980] Oh, so worth it.

[981] Absolutely.

[982] who made fun of you um we got called crazy a lot um but nothing like down pudding that was just more poking fun and just it encouraged us just in a different way yeah yeah the jobs and cheerleaders people that were supporting yeah definitely yeah good good and another thing that was kind of hard for us i guess is i had had a town home uh like 2015 and it was super cheap and it was not the best part of the springs and uh there's a lot of crime activity drive by was across the street, you know, somebody had gotten killed, shot and killed.

[983] So people were like, you need to get out of there.

[984] We're like, no, we got to, we got this, we're doing this for a reason, you know, this is for a purpose.

[985] So that was, yeah.

[986] Yeah, the location.

[987] And then you got the house, though.

[988] So you moved out of that.

[989] Yeah, we just knew that we wanted to wait until after we were married and do things in the right way.

[990] Yeah.

[991] We stayed there longer than we should have, but we did.

[992] We're still here.

[993] We weren't shot.

[994] So there we go.

[995] Oh, you guys, that's incredible.

[996] I don't know if I've ever heard anybody say that so pleasantly.

[997] We're still here and we didn't get shot.

[998] Way to go, Kirsten.

[999] I love it.

[1000] Good for you guys.

[1001] Way to go, you guys.

[1002] I'm so proud of you.

[1003] I would imagine your mom and dad are jumping up and down proud, aren't they, Ruben?

[1004] Oh, man, my mom passed away in 2008, so, you know, part of that was she did have a 30 ,000 in life insurance that we were able to put down on the house that we're in now.

[1005] So to honor that, or honor her that way has been awesome.

[1006] and you know yeah it's incredible so great you guys so great so great so what would you say to people the key of getting out of debt is um for us we put and when we initially got the mortgage we put the extra principal when we did the paperwork so there was that gap for us like the extra payment was automatically coming out so we just got used to that being our mortgage payment even though it was more than double and it put that gap so you couldn't make any real impulse decisions and that would take you off of your goal.

[1007] Yeah, yeah, that's great.

[1008] That's a smart way of doing it for sure.

[1009] Automate your discipline.

[1010] I like that.

[1011] Just keep it going.

[1012] That's a good plan.

[1013] I used to do that to myself all the time until I had natural discipline.

[1014] I put stuff on auto everything.

[1015] So it just automatically happened.

[1016] And I went, oh, no, I have to live on what's left because I put all that money in a mutual fund.

[1017] You know, it's like, wow, that's very cool.

[1018] Good for y 'all.

[1019] Well done.

[1020] Very well done.

[1021] Congratulations.

[1022] All right.

[1023] You want to bring Isaac and Ruby up for the debt -free scream?

[1024] Isaac.

[1025] Come on.

[1026] So sweet.

[1027] Oh, my gosh.

[1028] She's so cute.

[1029] Seven months.

[1030] Seven months.

[1031] We're going to get scared to death when her mom and dad, yeah.

[1032] I know.

[1033] I hope so.

[1034] The babies, yeah.

[1035] They always get a little frightened with the screams.

[1036] So great.

[1037] I love it.

[1038] All right.

[1039] Ruben and Kirsten, Isaac and Ruby's heroes.

[1040] They've changed their family tree, early 30s with a paid -for house in Colorado Springs.

[1041] Meanwhile, America sits around in some places, whining that it can't be done.

[1042] These two prove that it is done every day.

[1043] This is what you call millennials.

[1044] This is what you call millennials that win, and we see them all the time.

[1045] Or Gen Z. Ruben and Kirsten paid for house.

[1046] Colorado Springs, 270 paid off in five years, making 72 to 172.

[1047] Count it down.

[1048] Let's hear a debt -free scream.

[1049] Three, two, one.

[1050] What?

[1051] as predicted scared poor ruby to death i know i think guys it got a little got a little scared too there's a lot going on there that's so great amazing oh amazing yeah so for every time i hear that you and i on the ramsie show and jade and george and we're out of touch and we don't know what the real world is today and you're speaking boomer language and all that kind of stuff all all these negative things that are out there, then we meet people like them.

[1052] Yep, Curson and Rubin.

[1053] And they do, I know.

[1054] Not just purchased a home, but they paid it off in five years and their 31 years.

[1055] And I think it was making 112, not 172, 72 to 112.

[1056] Oh, I wrote that down.

[1057] It looked like a 7.

[1058] No, no, but I'm saying, you know, so it's, it's not like they're making 300K.

[1059] Right, right, exactly.

[1060] I mean, it's, it's amazing.

[1061] And it is, it's the discipline and it's choosing.

[1062] And now it's the whole idea that now, oh my gosh, there's no payments.

[1063] There's no payments.

[1064] But they did it.

[1065] Well, Ruben said, y 'all could replay that monologue for over and over on loop because it's true.

[1066] I'm like, you have to change you.

[1067] Yeah, you take responsibility and it's amazing.

[1068] Yeah, he said, the guy in my mirror had to change.

[1069] Yep.

[1070] And he did.

[1071] I'm so proud of him.

[1072] What a hero.

[1073] And he's got, it changed his kid's lives.

[1074] Yes.

[1075] And Kirsten, just killing it.

[1076] I'm amazing.

[1077] Well done.

[1078] Well done.

[1079] This is the Ramsey show.

[1080] Rachel Cruz.

[1081] Ramsey personality is my co -host.

[1082] Stephen is with us in Chattanooga.

[1083] Hi, Stephen.

[1084] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1085] Hello.

[1086] Hi.

[1087] Here we go.

[1088] So I'm about to be divorced.

[1089] The income disparity between my wife and I's pretty great.

[1090] So I have a large amount coming my way in a quadro and alimony coming my way, three years of bonus money of her coming to my way.

[1091] We're going to be selling a home here soon and I'll get about 100k out of that.

[1092] I want to get myself into a house and have it paid for in the next few years.

[1093] I don't have any retirement or anything set up yet.

[1094] I'm 46.

[1095] My income is growing rapidly.

[1096] I'm a brand new barber.

[1097] I'll be a make about 30 ,000 this year, but I believe every year probably go up about 10k.

[1098] Okay.

[1099] Where am I going with this?

[1100] What do I do with this quadr?

[1101] I'm going to have about 80 ,000 dollars.

[1102] The quarter's got to be put into an IRA.

[1103] You've got to leave it alone.

[1104] If you cash that out, you're going to get penalized intact.

[1105] You've got to leave it alone.

[1106] Yeah.

[1107] So you just pretend it doesn't exist.

[1108] Exactly.

[1109] You need to get with a smartvestor pro at Ramsey Solutions .com and find somebody to sit down with and they can help you do the rollover, and you can move that into your own personal IRA and some mutual funds and have no taxes on it.

[1110] But if you pull it out and screw with it, you're going to have taxes on it.

[1111] So leave it alone.

[1112] Because it's in her, your take, all it is is a section of her 401K being sliced off for you.

[1113] Yeah.

[1114] That's all it is.

[1115] I had thought about using that for a down payment.

[1116] No, no. You're getting 100 out of the home and you're getting what other money?

[1117] You said you're getting a couple of bonuses and other stuff.

[1118] How much money total?

[1119] Yes.

[1120] Not counting the clock.

[1121] Four years of our own money, $8 .75 a month.

[1122] And three years, 25 % of a bonus, it'll be about 8 to 10 grand each year.

[1123] Oh, it's not all going to lump some.

[1124] No. The only lump sum that we can touch then is the 100K.

[1125] You're going to get $8 ,000, you're going to get $8 ,700 a month.

[1126] Is that what you said?

[1127] I'll be getting about $1 ,600 a month in Alamonian child support.

[1128] Oh, okay, okay, okay.

[1129] I got you.

[1130] Okay.

[1131] Okay.

[1132] So it's broken up over four years, and my income will be increasing over that.

[1133] time as well yeah so i'm going to be looking at putting a hundred thousand down on a house that's what you've got yeah and just ignore that quadro yeah you got you've got you've got to um because it'd be it'd be like taking the money out at 30 % interest yeah because i'll just get taxed you're going to get taxed and a 10 % penalty you're going to get hammered so you leave that puppy alone and just go do you a house of some kind with a hundred down based on the current income that you've got and you can count palimony, you can count shots.

[1134] I mean, you can count all of that in terms of as long as it's going to continue, and that'll offset the fact that your income hasn't gone up, or you can wait a year and let your income come up.

[1135] And then you've got a story to tell to a mortgage company showing tax returns as a new barber that I made this, and then I made this, and then I made this, and here's a trend line, and so it's reasonable to qualify you based on those things.

[1136] You've got to have two years tax returns.

[1137] as a new self -employed person.

[1138] And then you'll be able to move forward on that.

[1139] But yeah, just take your time.

[1140] There's no reason to, you know, you are getting some money out of the divorce, but it's not exactly like you hit the lotto.

[1141] I mean, it's a nice amount of money, but it's not going to put you on easy street.

[1142] You're still going to be doing a bunch of careful things there.

[1143] Today's question of the day comes from Taylor in Mississippi.

[1144] Taylor says I'm currently 12 weeks pregnant with a baby girl from my boyfriend I recently lost a loved one who left me a large inheritance I have $40 ,000 of debt and my boyfriend is debt free do I take this inheritance and put towards my debt and then take what's left and put down 20 % on a house my boyfriend and I plan on getting married but for some reason he's really against getting married before I have the baby that's weird okay well I don't know why that would be the case.

[1145] But, yeah, I mean, that's what I would do.

[1146] Yeah, I would take the inheritance.

[1147] I'd pay off your debt.

[1148] Taylor, I would keep everything so separate.

[1149] If you bought a house, I would buy it on what you make, your income, your life.

[1150] I mean, I would be very, very hesitant to put him on anything.

[1151] I wouldn't put him on anything.

[1152] Not hesitant.

[1153] Just don't do it.

[1154] And I probably wouldn't do anything until the baby comes.

[1155] I mean, honestly, I don't think I would make a big decision like.

[1156] Well, pay off your debt.

[1157] Pay off your debt.

[1158] But I wouldn't buy a house.

[1159] house pregnant I would continue to rent maybe rent for the next year or two then then hopefully you get married then after you have the baby and then you guys together after you're married look and see okay let's let's purchase a house but while you're pregnant I probably wouldn't take some of this inheritance and put it down payment I would just I would rent be where you are for you know one to two years and then from there see what happens relationally if that changes and then even just financially at that point.

[1160] I'm old.

[1161] Why is he?

[1162] There's a term from my generation.

[1163] Okay, careful.

[1164] Called shotgun wedding.

[1165] Oh, yeah.

[1166] Which, um, you got a baby on the way, buddy, you show up or daddy's going to bring a shotgun and help you show up.

[1167] Oh, my gosh.

[1168] That's what that means.

[1169] Does it really?

[1170] That's where that comes from.

[1171] I'm going to bring my shotgun and by God you're going to marry her.

[1172] thought you meant a fast funny okay no that's that this is like disturbing but I agree well I agree that's weird that he's like really really against getting married I it's back backwards I it's just it's not weird it's just wrong and it just my warning bells are going off like crazy mine is too but I don't want to force her into a marriage no no no with a terrible guy so I'm like right no I wouldn't know I would not say just go get married right now if he's not a great guy For some reason, he doesn't, you know, I'm going to, okay, so yeah, don't put this guy's name on anything until he is a husband, and period, under any circumstances, and don't put anybody you're not married to, period, no matter how sweet and wonderful they are, their name on your freaking house, you get yourself in a disaster.

[1173] This just, uh, all right, Johns in Colorado Springs.

[1174] Hey, John, how are you?

[1175] How are you?

[1176] Good.

[1177] How are you?

[1178] Thank you for taking the call.

[1179] So I've got a bet with my wife on what we should do with our side hustle money.

[1180] So we owe $102 ,000 left on our house.

[1181] We have no other debt.

[1182] We have our rainy day fund, our money and savings.

[1183] We get 15 % to our 401k in our pension.

[1184] Our interest rate on our house is 2 .2%.

[1185] I make between 30 and 60 ,000 on our side hustle.

[1186] So I say that we take the 30 to 60 every year and put it in mutual funds because the rate of return is greater than the 2 .2 % on the house.

[1187] Your wife has been listening to the show and she set you up.

[1188] Yeah, she said that we need to just pay off the house.

[1189] She set you up.

[1190] I hope you didn't bet much.

[1191] No. John, what we teach and have the entire time we've been on there for 30 years is that you pay off your house as fast as possible, regardless of the interest rate, beyond the 15 % because in studying the, doing the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, we've talked to 10 ,167 of them.

[1192] Let me tell you how many of those 10 ,000 said we became a millionaire because we didn't pay off our house and instead made more money.

[1193] money by investing the money in mutual funds out of 10 ,167 what number said we are going to go with John's plan zero zero not one we've never met a millionaire who really did this we've met a lot of people who have a theory and discuss it the way you're discussing it because you're a math guy like me and I'm I immediately go to where you're going to because that's how my math brain works you're looking at the spread but what your spread doesn't take into consideration is risk and the two elements of a paid for other two elements of someone getting their first one to five million is typically their 401k being well funded which is 15 percent of your income going in you're doing that and a paid for house and so you're on track if you follow her plan to be a millionaire faster than if we follow your plan based on the data that we've studied of actual millionaires not with mathematical theory Because the math theory of what you're bringing up is reasonable.

[1194] But the actual facts are when you pay off your house, other stuff changes in your life.

[1195] And you tend to excel in your career and do other things.

[1196] You can invest the mortgage payment.

[1197] Yeah.

[1198] Once you don't have one.

[1199] Yeah, you can invest the mortgage payment like crazy.

[1200] Yeah, you go into overdrive.

[1201] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1202] From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth.

[1203] do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships.

[1204] Rachel Cruz is Ramsey Personality, number one bestselling author, my daughter is my co -host today.

[1205] Thanks for hanging out with us.

[1206] Open phones at AAA -8 -25 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[1207] Claire is with us in South Bend, Indiana.

[1208] Hi, Claire.

[1209] How are you?

[1210] Hi, Dave.

[1211] I'm doing great.

[1212] How about yourselves?

[1213] Better than I deserve.

[1214] What's up?

[1215] Well, first, I just want to tell you really quick, I met my husband.

[1216] One of the first dates we had, he told me that his dad raised him with the Bible in one hand to a Dave Ramsey book and the other.

[1217] That's how I kind of was introduced to you, so I thought that would be funny to kind of share.

[1218] That's a little scary, actually.

[1219] Cool.

[1220] It led us on some good tasks here.

[1221] Good.

[1222] How can we help?

[1223] Today I'm calling, I wanted to ask you, as you both know, daycare costs are really high.

[1224] We are expecting our second child in August, which we're really excited about.

[1225] We both work my husband my full time, and so daycare is our option in life right now.

[1226] When it comes to trying to figure out in our budget, we're on baby step 4, 5, 6, kind of like how to best budget for the upcoming expensive daycare, we are kind of at a loss with, we can't afford it.

[1227] That's not an issue, but it's where does it come out of?

[1228] You know, we're trying to figure out with our budget.

[1229] Does it maybe impact us putting, right now we're putting 15 % each into retirement for a season until my older son can go to a less expensive daycare?

[1230] Do we put maybe 10 % into retirement each?

[1231] So we have a little bit more room to give to the daycare for our second child when he goes to daycare or, you know, kind of trying to figure that out.

[1232] What's your household income?

[1233] We currently make $121 a year.

[1234] Okay, so 15 % is $20 ,000.

[1235] Okay.

[1236] And daycare, how much?

[1237] Right now we pay $311 a week for our sign, so that's roughly depending on the month, it could be between $1 .5 and $1 ,200, $1 ,200 ,000.

[1238] 500.

[1239] But with the second child, we get a small 10 % discount.

[1240] And it could be anywhere between 2 ,100 a month to 2 ,700 a month of the daycare we're currently at.

[1241] Yeah.

[1242] So it'll be 3 grand a month is what you guys will be paying.

[1243] Yep.

[1244] And how much do you make a year?

[1245] So I currently make 55 a year.

[1246] Okay.

[1247] And my husband makes, I think when I broke it down, it's 60.

[1248] Oh, that's right.

[1249] You said 121 household.

[1250] Yep.

[1251] Sorry.

[1252] I had that number.

[1253] Okay.

[1254] That's great.

[1255] Yeah, do you guys have, Claire, do you guys have margin in your budget when you budget month to month?

[1256] Do you have money that you're putting away in savings just for other things?

[1257] Is there, what does your budget look like?

[1258] Yeah, so typically in a month we put towards retirement and some other savings about $1 ,300.

[1259] And then extra, we have left over for like, you know, gas.

[1260] We donate to our church, groceries.

[1261] household items, you know, utensils, toilet pick, or things like that.

[1262] And so we do have, you know, we budget as close as you can with everything, but just trying to figure out when before a baby comes and everything else, like how much more do we save?

[1263] And then that only lasted for so long.

[1264] And again, this is only for a short period of time because our son could go to a different daycare when he's for, the oldest, and it would be a third of the cost.

[1265] So it's not going to be forever that we would be in this predicament, but just for a short period of time, we're just going to be at a higher daycare cost.

[1266] Yeah, yeah.

[1267] Yeah, I mean, I think in a perfect world, you're finding that margin, other places, and what that looks like, because that 15 % is, I mean, that's a key part for you guys in the future.

[1268] And so I don't know what other lifestyle expenses look like of shoring those up, maybe, you know, saying, hey, we got to find some margin other places in that budget, because, you know, I think that's the hard thing, too, the reality of like, oh, my gosh, kids, they do, they cost a lot.

[1269] Especially when you're talking about something at an expense like daycare, it is.

[1270] It's so pricey.

[1271] So, yeah, I mean, in a perfect world, you're going to, you would find that extra $1 ,300 elsewhere.

[1272] But for you guys, you don't, you know, at that point, though, you don't have an option.

[1273] And for me, for $30 ,000 a year, I'm going to start looking at alternatives to you.

[1274] I'm not going to just accept that as the only possible method.

[1275] Yeah, and that's something I started to look into as well.

[1276] One and other option we discussed was not contributing to the 529 plan for a little while for our son because my mom's continuing.

[1277] I'm talking about other daycare options.

[1278] Yes, that too.

[1279] We have looked at other daycare.

[1280] 30 ,000 bucks.

[1281] Yeah, but $300, $311 a week.

[1282] I mean, that's pretty standard.

[1283] I'm like, that's not unreasonable.

[1284] That's not an unreasonable amount.

[1285] But it gives me a lot of thought.

[1286] when I start talking about $30 ,000 a year.

[1287] I can start thinking about a lot of different things then.

[1288] So, but yeah, you know, I would look at all that.

[1289] And I'm with Rachel.

[1290] Probably one of the last places I would go would be to the retirement.

[1291] I would do $529 before retirement.

[1292] Yeah, I would.

[1293] I agree.

[1294] I agree.

[1295] Thank you so much.

[1296] I'd pull that off.

[1297] And then I really would, honestly, look at alternatives on the daycare.

[1298] because it's such an onerous amount as a percentage of your budget that they have priced themselves out of somebody who makes $120 ,000 here.

[1299] And that's...

[1300] Yeah, they priced themselves out of it.

[1301] And so you're not far from affording a nanny for $30K.

[1302] I mean, not far at all.

[1303] So, I mean, it can be done.

[1304] So I start thinking about it.

[1305] different.

[1306] It's kind of like, you know, if you're going to charge me $120 ,000 a year for nursing home for $120 ,000 a year, I can hire a full -time in -house butler.

[1307] Yeah, you can't do it.

[1308] And buy a reclining bed.

[1309] Yes, I know, I know, I know.

[1310] But I know her feel, and I've, and I've done the research, even locally, like the moms that work here at Ramsey.

[1311] I'm like, it is.

[1312] It's, it is a, it is a crazy expense?

[1313] And then you start, and then you do, you ask, for so many women, you ask the question, is it even worth it?

[1314] Right.

[1315] That's right.

[1316] It's the 20 ,000 extra.

[1317] So instead of making 121, we make 100, is that worth, right?

[1318] I mean, like, you have to, you play out all these different scenarios, but it does.

[1319] This part, though, it makes me, as a mom with little ones, it is.

[1320] It sucks because they have trapped us in a sense.

[1321] It can feel like that with the prices.

[1322] They go up as people.

[1323] Well, there's a supply demand curve.

[1324] I mean, when you raise the prices.

[1325] So they're open.

[1326] They stay open.

[1327] They're paying it.

[1328] Well, when price raises to a certain point, the volume comes down.

[1329] That's supply of demand.

[1330] and so they're reaching the top of this because this has been a discussion like 10 times in the last year well yeah and it's like 37 % it's risen it's risen since 2020 I'm like it's just it's it's crazy it is crazy so they do they will end up and that's what we talk to so many women that just end up saying hey I'll just I'll stay home right like if you have three kids right I mean you start to actually see that I'm working 40 hours and after taxes and daycare I net five grand right screw that right you know no thank you that doesn't make sense yeah and uh she's almost there she's almost there not quite with her numbers but um well and the four -year -old will go to a less expensive school right so you know you got a light at the end of the tunnel yeah exactly exactly i know but that's so hard clear so hard i hope that's helpful yeah thanks for calling this is the ramsie show regal cruz ramsey personality is my co -host today the best way to make the most of your monies by creating and sticking to a monthly plan people that win plan to win and that includes money and it's called a budget your budget should give every dollar an assignment every dollar a mission every dollar a name before the month begins and you and your spouse agree on it if you're married every dollar is our budgeting app the world's best budgeting app one of the largest these days millions of people joining in the last just little it's crazy y 'all thank you so much, by the way.

[1331] It's an easy -to -use app that fits into your busy lifestyle.

[1332] You and your spouse can both have access to it, see what's going on.

[1333] You can keep a pulse on your spending, make progress on your money goals.

[1334] Download every dollar for free in the app store or Google Play today.

[1335] And you can even get it at every dollar online at every dollar .com just for your desktop, if you want.

[1336] Brianna is with us in Columbus, Ohio.

[1337] Hi, Brianna.

[1338] How are you?

[1339] I'm doing well.

[1340] How are you guys?

[1341] Better than we deserve.

[1342] What's up?

[1343] so quick question so I'm going to keep this try to keep this short and sweet so my in -laws are on one income and my mother -in -law has not worked in about 18 years around that time and she's just been making sure that everything's taken care of at the house and so my father -in -law doesn't bring in all that much you know they pretty much they're okay but they don't have any term life insurance no i don't believe they have anything for savings um my father -in -law i'm concerned about him with his work um because he does have a risk of uh more he's more at risk for injury because his health And so my question for you guys is, you know, with us children and daughter -in -law and such, is there something that we need to be doing in case something happens to my father -in -law?

[1344] Just handling your money.

[1345] I mean, if you become wealthy, the wealthy or you become, the more able you are to help, right?

[1346] Yeah, and that's why I'm asking because I am in my mid -20s, and I'm trying to, to get a good handle on my money you know i'm starting the baby steps uh that's the best thing you can do for them okay is to get you strong the week can't help the strong can't help the week yeah and that's so how do you how would you recommend i best do this baby steps do i do a no just baby steps just go you go become wealthy if you've got money you'll have some money you don't have to have a parent account if you've got a million dollars in a mutual fund and they have a problem you can help them right yeah it doesn't have to be it doesn't have to have their name on it should I do a high yield savings or no you ought to follow the baby steps okay exactly that's the fastest method to you becoming wealthy and the best thing you can do for them is for you to become wealthy okay But no, you should not truncate your retirement savings and say, or your kids' college and say I'm not doing baby steps four and five.

[1347] Instead, I'm going to have a father -in -law account.

[1348] No, thank you.

[1349] No, no, no, no, no, no, new, new, new, new.

[1350] Yeah, and Brianna, have you guys talked to them about their money?

[1351] Like, do you know all this for a fact?

[1352] Is your husband, like, you guys know this?

[1353] So we do know that they do not have really anything saved.

[1354] Have they said anything about what their plans are?

[1355] Is he just planning on working longer?

[1356] He's kind of just planning to work until he can't.

[1357] Okay.

[1358] Yeah, and so, I mean, and too, I would say this too, Brianna, I wouldn't be like overly stressed about it because at this point you can't do anything to help.

[1359] They can't help themselves, right?

[1360] And nothing has happened yet, right?

[1361] It's not like, oh, my gosh, my father -in -law is now on workers' comp because he got an injury and my mother -in -law now has to go back to work.

[1362] I help navigate the situation.

[1363] There is no situation right now.

[1364] There could be.

[1365] So I think, you know, being wise about the people around you, the family unit around you of saying this is our life and this could be coming in the future.

[1366] But right now today, yeah, I'm with Dave.

[1367] You just, yeah, you guys, you and your husband, you guys start doing this.

[1368] You start walking down the baby steps.

[1369] And if you have the ability to help, if they need help, then you guys get to choose that at that point.

[1370] Will is in West Palm Beach, Florida.

[1371] Hi, Will.

[1372] Hey, how are you all doing?

[1373] Better than we deserve.

[1374] What's up?

[1375] So, a quick question for you.

[1376] I'll keep it brief.

[1377] Long story short, I graduated college last May, and I moved back home in, let's see, July, last July.

[1378] So I've been home.

[1379] Got a job in November, so I've been working.

[1380] I make roughly $75 ,000 a year, bring home $4 ,400.

[1381] I got my master's.

[1382] I let my mom handle all the finances for that.

[1383] So in February, there was a little bit of a surprise to me that I was $70 ,000 in debt, $70 ,000 student loan.

[1384] So I've been paying off those, trying to throw about $3 ,000 a month towards this.

[1385] So I paid off roughly $6 ,400.

[1386] I've got $35 ,000 saved up.

[1387] And I'm wondering that's in a high -yield savings account.

[1388] So I'm wondering, would it be wise to put that towards it right now?

[1389] Yes.

[1390] Or just continue.

[1391] And in the same day that you do that, which is today, you take control of your own money.

[1392] You have a master's degree.

[1393] You're a grown man. Yep.

[1394] You need to manage your money, not your mother.

[1395] And then right after that, when you start talking about where a $75 ,000 a year college graduate's going to live, that's not his mother's house.

[1396] Correct.

[1397] so three things yeah move out take control of your life and write a check and pay down the student loans ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding and all of a sudden this stuff's going to start lining up for you like crazy what's your master's in man uh finance investments okay good all right so so you can handle this then right no of course okay good I was of course I would be more wise yeah yeah yeah pay it pay it towards pay towards the debt yeah let's get the debt cleaned up as fast as you can For 35 ,000, I mean, you obviously took advantage of not having the rent to pay, right?

[1398] Living at your parents, you took advantage of it because you have it saved, which is awesome.

[1399] Oh, you do?

[1400] Okay.

[1401] Well, I was going to say, you have 35 ,000 saves, so you're doing something right.

[1402] Yeah.

[1403] You need to take over control of your own money immediately.

[1404] You need to make plans to move out in the next 30 to 60 days and have yourself a life.

[1405] And you need to pay down on a student loan as fast and furiously as you can because you're number one wealth building tool is not interest rates.

[1406] Your number well and wealth building tool is your income.

[1407] And when it's not going to someone else in the form of debt payments, building wealth becomes fairly easy, especially Will for a guy like you who knows numbers and has done a great job of saving money.

[1408] You did an amazing job to Rachel's point.

[1409] Well, and Will, I mean, at this season of life, yeah, I would do exactly what he said.

[1410] I'd go get a part -time job.

[1411] I would go drive Uber.

[1412] I would do something four days, four nights a week and just make a crap ton of money right now and pay this off.

[1413] Yeah.

[1414] Get this knocked out as fast as you possibly can.

[1415] And just say for 12 months, I'm going to just work and get this, get this out of here because it can be done and you're in the perfect season to do it, right?

[1416] I'm like, you really are.

[1417] I find, you know, I mean, I think it does get harder when there's another spouse involved, right?

[1418] Because you got another person to consider.

[1419] Then you have kids and like as you kick the can down the road there's more elements to your life that you're having to consider.

[1420] The bad news is when you're single, there's no one to hold you accountable.

[1421] The good news is is you don't have to mess with anybody else to make a decision to change your life.

[1422] That's right.

[1423] You can just decide to do it today.

[1424] Yeah.

[1425] Today.

[1426] It's great.

[1427] Well, let me say this.

[1428] I mean, I feel I feel for you will because he had no clue he had the 70 ,000.

[1429] He said his mom took care of all the money stuff during college and then he realized, oh my gosh, now I have 70 grand.

[1430] And that what he said?

[1431] It kind of surprised him.

[1432] So parents, talk to your kids, say it out loud, have the discussion because that sucks.

[1433] That happened to one of my friends.

[1434] They went to pull a loan for a mortgage and on her credit report, there was a student loan that they didn't know about.

[1435] No one said anything about it.

[1436] So communicate parents.

[1437] This is the Ramsey Show.

[1438] Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality is my co -host.

[1439] Jade is in Ottawa, Ontario.

[1440] Hi, Jade.

[1441] How are you?

[1442] I'm good.

[1443] How are you?

[1444] Better than I deserve.

[1445] What's up?

[1446] Yeah, so I had a couple of questions.

[1447] So this year kind of fell on a little bit of hard times when it comes to finances.

[1448] So I have roughly $237 ,000 in debt, $205 ,000.

[1449] five of that is in a mortgage, and the rest is car loan, line of credit, and credit card.

[1450] So I'm a single parent, and I am only bringing in roughly $3 ,500 a month.

[1451] So the debt is starting to become overwhelming.

[1452] I'm wondering if I should...

[1453] When did you buy the house?

[1454] I bought the house in 2018.

[1455] So the house is worth about $630 ,000 now.

[1456] Because you don't make a ton of money.

[1457] The house doesn't sound completely unreasonable, but my guess is that...

[1458] What's your mortgage payment a month?

[1459] So when I first got in the house, I had a really low rate.

[1460] But now that I've had to renew, my mortgage payment has went from $1 ,000 a month to $4 ,000.

[1461] $1 ,400 a month.

[1462] Okay.

[1463] Yeah, I mean, you're bumping up close to 50 % of your income, being your mortgage.

[1464] Yeah, and then I had...

[1465] Why did you not take a fixed rate mortgage?

[1466] So I did take a fixed rate.

[1467] I had a fixed rate before, and then when I renewed, I took a fixed rate.

[1468] rate as well.

[1469] Why would you renew if you had a fixed rate?

[1470] So here in Canada you have to renew.

[1471] It's not like in the U .S. So the rate adjusts.

[1472] Pardon?

[1473] The rate adjusts each time you renew.

[1474] Yes.

[1475] So there's only variable rate interest rate mortgages in Canada.

[1476] I did not know that.

[1477] No. There's fixed.

[1478] Well, it's not fixed if it goes up every year.

[1479] No, you got to when you renew.

[1480] How often do you have to renew?

[1481] So you can either choose a three -year fix or a five -year fix, and the five -year is the maximum that you can hold a rate for in Canada.

[1482] Wow.

[1483] I just learned something.

[1484] Yeah.

[1485] Unfortunately.

[1486] Well, that sucks.

[1487] I did know that, yeah.

[1488] I knew something around those lines.

[1489] Okay, Jay, do you see your income going up anytime soon?

[1490] So the thing is, I have a business, and because of all the money that I've been spending, I haven't been able to put much into marketing for my business, so it's kind of been at a standstill.

[1491] Is that your income is your business, or is that a side hustle?

[1492] It's my business.

[1493] Okay.

[1494] So here's the straight -on solution, okay?

[1495] you either sell the house or you get your income up because you cannot keep this house with this income it's not sustainable that's why that's where the stress is coming from yeah because you have that in a car payment credit card set I mean it's a lot yeah well the car payment the credit card came because you couldn't afford the house and then when you can't afford the house you don't have any margin left to save so you rent stuff up on credit cards right exactly yeah yeah the house the house squeeze is showing up in the credit cards what do you do what's your business jade so I have a commercial cleaning company okay so we clean offices okay because you're making I mean it's around I mean 3 ,500 a month right I mean you're you're bringing in 45 a year I'm just wondering if you can find something that you're making 60 great right I'm like just any up are you fully booked um we're not fully booked okay I don't know why you have to spend money all you got is go knock on doors and get you some clients yeah yeah so I'm I'm try i've been trying to do that i've been a little bit busy with work and my son but um that's definitely something that i'm going to if you if you don't do that you're going to have to sell your house i was thinking would renting it out be a good idea no you don't need to be a landlord you're broke that's a bad idea yes it's a really bad idea yes either get your income up or sell it uh because you know you and i think you ought to go get your income up that's what i think you got it to do.

[1496] I think you're going to have to focus on that.

[1497] Because this is a good, I mean, like, you know, $1 ,400 a month is not terrible, right?

[1498] And now compared to income it is.

[1499] But, man, if you can get that income up, then that, I mean, you're in a good spot.

[1500] You have so much equity.

[1501] If you could get to $4 ,000 a month, it's from $3 ,500.

[1502] It changes the whole equation automatically.

[1503] Yep.

[1504] And then you can start working your way out of the credit card debt, do away with those and start living on a budget and being in control.

[1505] But no, there's turning yourself into a landlord when you're broke, makes you broker.

[1506] landlords you need money to be a landlord you need cash you need margin it doesn't make you money it does it's a it's a problem at first especially when you're this tight because this house is not going to rent for much more than your payment so you're not no no no no no no no no no no don't go that way please stay away from that deema is with us in baltimore hi dima how are you One more time, let's try it.

[1507] All right, I said, okay.

[1508] No, we're going to put you on hold until we can get your phone straightened out.

[1509] Riley's in Salt Lake City.

[1510] Hi, Riley, how are you?

[1511] How are you doing?

[1512] Better than I deserve.

[1513] What's up?

[1514] Awesome, thanks for having me. I've just got a question in regards to Baby Step 2.

[1515] Working Baby Step 2, we've got two car loans, and they're both underwater.

[1516] So I'm looking, we're looking to go down to one car for our family to try and speed this process up.

[1517] But I just don't really know what to do in the situation where we're underwater.

[1518] What are your numbers, Riley?

[1519] What's, what do you owe on the cars and how much are they worth?

[1520] So, but we have a truck, which is a dumb decision, but it's, it's got 36 ,000 left on the loan.

[1521] It's worth 31.

[1522] Okay.

[1523] And then we have a car, the loan's $8 ,000, but it's probably worth about $3 ,500.

[1524] Okay.

[1525] And what's your household income?

[1526] $90 ,000.

[1527] Okay.

[1528] All right.

[1529] And do you have any money?

[1530] Not too much, really.

[1531] I mean, we just have the $1 ,000 saved up from Baby Step 1.

[1532] Good.

[1533] Who said the truck's worth $31?

[1534] I just like did Kelly Blue Book private sale or trade -in private sell okay so you need 5k who do you owe the 36 -2 on the truck who's the lien holder uh it's just a local credit union perfect go down there sit down talk to him tell them you want to sell the truck and sign a note for the difference okay they'll cut they'll let you do that because they already don't have fully collateralized loan meaning that truck is not worth what you owe so they're already have five thousand thousand unsecured right and if you just now have a 5 ,000 unsecured and you drive the old car until you get your mess cleaned up here uh which make a 90 you'll be able to turn the corner pretty quick on this but you've identified where the whole source spot is and it's this truck it's killing you right right what are the debts you guys have really uh that'll be that'll be the last of the debt oh so eight grand on the car and you'll be done yeah that's amazing that's great I mean, that feels good, right?

[1535] Getting 31 off, 36 off.

[1536] Knock that out and save up like crazy and either move up in the one car family or move into a two -car family again and then move up.

[1537] Hopscotch, either one.

[1538] I don't care what you do.

[1539] But, yeah, I think you're probably moving back into the car business after you get the other one paid off and this gone.

[1540] And, you know.

[1541] Yeah, $4 ,000 sounds a lot better than $36 ,000.

[1542] Yeah, yeah.

[1543] And that's great.

[1544] And then save up and you can get a used truck later.

[1545] Yeah.

[1546] That's what I would do if I was in your shoes.

[1547] Dump the truck and sign a note for the difference of the credit union.

[1548] And that, like you said, that just pushes it on out there.

[1549] Open phones at AAA 825 -5 -2 -2 -25.

[1550] Our scripture of the day, John 15, 16, you did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit.

[1551] fruit that will last, and so whatever you ask, and my name the father will give you.

[1552] Bill Murray said, whatever you do, always give 100 percent unless you're donating blood.

[1553] My gosh.

[1554] That's funny.

[1555] That's good.

[1556] Ross is in Dallas, Texas.

[1557] Hi, Ross.

[1558] Welcome to the Ramsey show.

[1559] Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

[1560] Sure, what's up?

[1561] So I have just over $42 ,000 in student loan debt at a 5 .625 interest rate, and I'm wondering if I should take some of the contributions out of my Roth IRA.

[1562] I currently have the $0 ,000 balance and put them towards the student loan debt.

[1563] No. No. I never take money out of retirement to pay off debt unless it's to avoid bankruptcy or foreclosure, because that money is going to grow tax -free that you've got in there to such a large amount that it would just be disturbing to me that you lost a million -dollar tax -free account for doing this and that's what it would be at your age how old are you i'm 32 yeah that's what i thought and so yeah so what's your household income uh 100 ,000 uh we'll be getting married next year and that'll make it about 180 oh cool and you know and you only have 40 ,000 in debt yes sir oh so you'll be debt free in a year yeah good no i would not sacrifice my Roth IRA on the altar of a year okay yeah i just was looking at the repayment calculator and I just trying to consider it as an option because the monthly payments are I feel like you know really only no no no no you misunderstand 40 ,000 in less than a year I don't give a crap what your calculator said I want you to pay off your stinking loan now you make a hundred you're getting ready to make 180 I want that gone out of your income lowered your lifestyle if you make 180 ,000 dollars a year you can't find 40k in 12 months you know now that's after you're married I understand when's the marriage Should be next July Okay, good So, I mean Between now and that.

[1564] I'd love for you A year from July?

[1565] A year from this July, yes, sir.

[1566] Okay, all right, so you have a year at 100K to work on it If you don't get it knocked out during that time Shortly after marriage, I want you to knock it out But I'd love for you to knock it out Out of your hundred Or do you have the ability to work extra And do you mean, anything else you can sell And then trashing your Roth But yeah, that kind of stuff Let's just get an attack mode and say, I'm going to live on 60 ,000, which is just below average household income in America as a single guy for one year and knock this out.

[1567] Yeah.

[1568] I mean, after tax, you get 100.

[1569] I know.

[1570] After tax is 80, right?

[1571] So you live on 40, put 40.

[1572] That's two years.

[1573] And like, but then you're going to be married.

[1574] So, I mean, it's a process for sure.

[1575] But also, I would say, Ross, too, go work extra up your income.

[1576] Yeah, you're making 100, which is awesome.

[1577] But it's just that, again, it's that singular focus of saying, what can I do to pay this off earlier and run those numbers those are numbers you could be running if I made an extra two grand a month doing this or you know whatever it looks like um there yeah there's power in that yeah and and it's kind of a thing what if you made it into a game and said okay as a matter of personal pride I'm going to walk into this marriage debt free now game on just kind of make it a game you know and so okay now what have I got to do yeah lots of words work, selling stuff, not going out to eat, da -da -da, and it turns into a game then.

[1578] It's not life or death, but if you treated it like it was, you could make it.

[1579] And that's kind of my point.

[1580] And then for sure, for sure, when you're making 180, if there's any left, if you guys don't knock that out real fast, that's pretty lame.

[1581] So, no, you don't need a payment calculator to figure that out.

[1582] 180 minus 40 or 100 plus overtime and extra jobs minus 40.

[1583] that that's your calculator that's what you're dealing with and then minus lifestyle oh wait i don't have a life because i work all the time because i'm getting out of debt oh that's okay too i like that one that's a plan that you know i would just make it a matter of pride i think it's kind of and pausing to ross your you're investing no more contributions to that roth so wait so that could free up a couple thousand bucks too right a year depending on what you're putting in your roth so that's that's good stop all investing temporary while you attack your dad.

[1584] That's baby step two, okay?

[1585] For those of you that are new to this Ramsey game.

[1586] Dan is in Atlanta.

[1587] Hi, Dan.

[1588] How are you?

[1589] Hey, Dave, doing well.

[1590] How are you?

[1591] Better than I deserve.

[1592] What's up in your world, sir?

[1593] Hey, I figured you'd say that.

[1594] So I wanted to get your thoughts on something.

[1595] I am buying a house, which is really exciting.

[1596] Now, I'm wanting to maximize my down payment.

[1597] and really when I started the year I wasn't going to be buying a house so I bought a new truck that I paid cash for and so my question to you is should I liquidate the truck take that down or take that cash and put that to the down payment of the house just to enhance going beyond that 20 % or would you say hey just go in at what you're doing currently what is the truck worth 39 ,000.

[1598] And what's your household income?

[1599] Over 100.

[1600] Okay.

[1601] And are you single?

[1602] No, married.

[1603] Okay.

[1604] And what's her car worth?

[1605] We actually leased her car for 200 a month.

[1606] Nothing down.

[1607] Okay.

[1608] Well, I would not worry about putting extra down on the house until we got her car paid off.

[1609] Okay.

[1610] Her car needs to be paid off.

[1611] You still have debt on it.

[1612] A car lease is not renting a house.

[1613] A car lease is an alternative form of financing.

[1614] So that is a debt.

[1615] You're in debt on her car.

[1616] And you need to clean that up before we talk about anything else.

[1617] So if you sell your truck or if you don't sell your truck, her car debt needs to be going away very quickly.

[1618] And if you need to sell your truck to do that, then that's something we can talk about.

[1619] but that's you know you should be doing that before you start talking about buying a house and certainly before you start talking about putting extra down on a house we should be clearing her debt on that or the debt on her car and um so that that's the route to go there yeah and we always say anything with wheels and motors not to be more than 50 percent of your take home pay and of your income of your household income and you're at 40 grand so you're i mean you're getting up there i mean it was a nice truck for what you make right if you include her her car.

[1620] If her car's values over 10 grand, then yeah, your truck needs to go on that basis.

[1621] Yeah.

[1622] You're right.

[1623] Yeah, you probably have too much truck.

[1624] And I think you kind of knew that.

[1625] And that's why you made the call.

[1626] So, yeah, let's sell the truck, get you a decent truck out of the proceeds and pay off her car.

[1627] And whatever's left, though, that is extra down payment.

[1628] That's what I would do.

[1629] Yeah.

[1630] But, you know, that's a good point, Rachel.

[1631] I didn't keep up with that and part of the math on this.

[1632] But, yeah, you can really get into a pinch there.

[1633] But that's great, though, saving 20 % to.

[1634] Dan.

[1635] I mean, for a down payment.

[1636] That's a, that's a conversation that, again, people have been having a lot recently with the housing market.

[1637] So we always applaud and congratulate.

[1638] There's other stuff for you to do before you do that, but you guys have been saving really well.

[1639] So that's great.

[1640] Yeah.

[1641] You're way ahead of the game on that.

[1642] Rachel's right.

[1643] So congrats on that.

[1644] I'm glad you're getting.

[1645] And you're right, you know, the way your brain's working is say, okay, what's more important houses or cars?

[1646] Well, financially houses by far.

[1647] Your personal residence is going to go up in value your stupid $40 ,000 our truck's going to be worth $10 ,000 in about 20 minutes.

[1648] They go down in value like a rock.

[1649] That's where a Chevy got that, like a rock.

[1650] And so, oh, wait, I drive a Ford.

[1651] No, wow, that's found on the road depreciated, F -O -R -D.

[1652] So there you go.

[1653] It all goes down in value, boys and girls.

[1654] It all goes down in value.

[1655] So, yeah, that's, yeah, where, you know, so your brain's telling you, I'm going to put money in something that's appreciating instead of depreciating.

[1656] It's like, I drove up.

[1657] In my 20s, I had bought a Jaguar.

[1658] I thought I was a...

[1659] Just such a fun.

[1660] I know that you loved Jaguars.

[1661] I thought it was a BA.

[1662] But like, I never hear of Jaguar.

[1663] It's not like a Mercedes or a BMW that I feel like is a...

[1664] That's why I bought it because I come from a neighborhood where we couldn't spell Jaguar.

[1665] So you were like...

[1666] But I drove up in my grandpa was like, what's that?

[1667] And I'm like, well, it's a Jaguar.

[1668] And he goes, well, that costs.

[1669] And it was like the 80s and it was 30 grand, you know.

[1670] Holy crap.

[1671] Yeah, I was expensive.

[1672] And he goes, that was dumb.

[1673] I'm like, why is that dumb?

[1674] It's a nice car.

[1675] And he said, it's going to go down in value.

[1676] And I said, what's an investment?

[1677] I said, my investments go up in value, son.

[1678] There's a grandpa lesson right there.

[1679] That puts us our of the Ramsey show in the book, so we'll be back with you before you know it.

[1680] In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

[1681] Hey, folks, Dave Ramsey here.

[1682] You know, budgeting doesn't have to be boring.

[1683] You just need a budgeting app that's made with you in mind.

[1684] And that's Every Dollar.

[1685] The Every Dollar app has helped millions of people work the baby steps and take the stress out of planning and managing their money.

[1686] Start budgeting with Every Dollar for free right now.

[1687] Just go to Ramsey Solutions .com slash every dollar and download the app today.

[1688] That's Ramsey Solutions .com slash every dollar.