432 - Here's My Personality

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] And welcome to my favorite murder.

[2] That's Georgia Hardstar.

[3] That's Karen Kilgarraf.

[4] And this uncanny presence that you feel in your head and ears right now is us being together in the studio.

[5] That's right.

[6] We're in a studio.

[7] We're together.

[8] All these things are all brand new.

[9] Can you handle it?

[10] It's so creepy for me, at least.

[11] Is it?

[12] It's weird, right?

[13] Talk about your feeling.

[14] Just say stuff off the top.

[15] I don't know.

[16] It just feels very official.

[17] It doesn't feel chill.

[18] I don't have pajama pants on, like, we're sitting across from each other at a, like, table.

[19] Yeah.

[20] I think this, what I believe to be walnut -stained soundproofing behind us is also because this is what all of the podcasters have in their background.

[21] Yeah.

[22] Oh, yeah.

[23] It's like we've finally come into the realm of real podcasters.

[24] Yeah.

[25] I don't know.

[26] It's been so long.

[27] Like maybe there were a couple episodes where we were together at one of our houses, but other than that, like through the pandemic, we have not been together.

[28] and I've just gotten used to, like, feeling like no one is watching me because no one was watching me. Yep.

[29] And now people are watching this.

[30] I can't take my eyes off you.

[31] I'm staring right down the barrel here.

[32] Thank you.

[33] Thank you.

[34] That's not a compliment, but thank you.

[35] I do hate that with someone's like, oh, my God, your hair.

[36] And you go, thank you.

[37] Thank you.

[38] They didn't fucking say.

[39] They didn't like it or not.

[40] That's how you take reality and you mold it to what you need it to be.

[41] No. Oh, you're like, oh, are you parking here?

[42] Thank you.

[43] I am.

[44] What's so weird is having a control room full of people and Stephen's mustache isn't one of them.

[45] You know what?

[46] We might have to reach out to Stephen and say, great, live your life, get your life.

[47] Could you please shave off your mustache and send it to us so we can put it up on the wall?

[48] What have we got a frame portrait of Stephen for the?

[49] It goes right here.

[50] Yeah.

[51] That would be amazing.

[52] And he's like, and we make him do it like a, it's like an oil portrait.

[53] Like he's the president of a bank, but it's Stephen.

[54] Yeah.

[55] Just kind of touching dials.

[56] Yeah, I love it.

[57] And his mustache.

[58] We miss you, Stephen.

[59] We miss you.

[60] I actually did bring in a piece of, I wouldn't call it true crime news.

[61] It's more, sometimes I walk by the old dilapidated haunted house that is Twitter, that I guess they're calling X. but they shouldn't at all.

[62] And I just see if anybody has anything to tell me or is mad about or needs to correct me on.

[63] You just want to like, what's the state of the world, my world right now?

[64] Anything could be happening anywhere.

[65] And I'm certainly not checking.

[66] So I go on there just to like, just in case.

[67] And thank God I did this time.

[68] Okay.

[69] Because there was a person on Twitter whose name is Andrew Patti.

[70] Okay.

[71] And that's a guess.

[72] Or Patti.

[73] or there's, you know, probably four other pronunciations that I could make up.

[74] But Andrew tagged me in this post, and the original post is by someone whose handle is Cliffoth, Underline Vermont, or VT.

[75] And they say, I'd like to inform you, the people are stuffing cash between the mothman statue's ass crack again.

[76] So the mothman statue, which we've been sent pictures of, and you've seen that, right?

[77] that's that silver statue.

[78] Based on the mothman story you covered a million episodes ago.

[79] Yes.

[80] And I actually like to tell myself they poured that statue after I told that story.

[81] But did we ever, maybe we talked about that the mothman statue has cakes for days.

[82] And so this is why people are stuffing cash into that ass.

[83] Look at it.

[84] Like that's what they wanted.

[85] Why does the mothman have a, an ass?

[86] B, a crack in it.

[87] C, a crack large enough.

[88] to literally stuff dollar dollar bills into.

[89] I mean, that mothman, I don't know.

[90] I think, first of all, there's a quarter that's very poorly placed in there.

[91] It looks like incredibly rated X. Yeah.

[92] I just thought it was kind of a nice update for like what's going on in the world.

[93] Because it feels like, you know, the mothman really scared people.

[94] The mothman foretold of a horrible tragedy on that bridge.

[95] now the mothman's being celebrated.

[96] Now the mothman's being objectified.

[97] It's good to like laugh at your fears, you know what I mean?

[98] And to like make light and makes it feel less scary, you know?

[99] And then maybe tell your fears that they're a slut.

[100] Right, but what if your fear is getting money stuck in your ass crack?

[101] Then you're totally fucked with this situation because there's easily $7 .25 stuck into the mothman's ass crack.

[102] Do you know there's this like phenomenon that on like on the web, on Reddit on curly pasta.

[103] That's not a scary pasta.

[104] You're thinking of lunchtime.

[105] I'm actually thinking of food where people are like, there's this phenomenon of like getting in the shower.

[106] Ghost must do this because suddenly quarters like get thrown over the shower like onto you.

[107] Like that's like a thing that goes to is throw quarters at you or change at you in the shower.

[108] Yeah.

[109] Except when you lay down and you're sleeping and sweaty on the couch and all your change is falling out of your pocket, it gets stuck to your back and you get in the shower and it starts coming off and people are like they think that like ghosts throw quarters at you or jesus why didn't they go religious with it and be like god god gave me 75 cents for cleaning myself really well that is so funny yeah it's not there's nobody throwing quarters at you you wish there was but there's not you're sweaty it's too bad that there can't be and this maybe is what the afterlife is is a book of explanations of crazy shit that's like actually the most mundane thing.

[110] Or it's like, no, no, you were sleeping in your own sweat and a handful of change.

[111] Right.

[112] Or like, no, you didn't see a ghost.

[113] Actually, like you were being poisoned a little bit by the gas.

[114] Yes.

[115] You and your family were a group hallucinating that old lady in the sweater.

[116] Oh, my God.

[117] Yeah.

[118] Well, that's kind of how ghost hunters started where they were plumbers and they kept going to check the pipes.

[119] No way.

[120] Yeah, because people would be like, there's a ghost in the But they'd be like, no, this whole thing is, and then they'd bring them all down.

[121] But then there were times where they couldn't explain it.

[122] We're into ghosty stuff.

[123] We like hearing about it.

[124] We're not hardcore believers.

[125] Do you think anything paranormal has actually happened before?

[126] Can you give me the beginning of that question again?

[127] Do you think?

[128] Oh.

[129] J .K. I just mean, what are you talking about?

[130] like being on the fence about do ghosts exist or not does paranormal stuff happen or not like definitively would you say yes only because we could have defined it as like a floating sheet right that's like ooh it's very specific how we've told each other what it actually is or what it means meanwhile like there's things happening in the ocean that no one knows or could explain So, like, we don't actually fucking know anything.

[131] Okay, you heard it here first.

[132] The ocean is haunted.

[133] Karen Gilgariff coming in hot.

[134] Well, here's my hot take.

[135] Ghost are caused by salt.

[136] And where's the most salt?

[137] The ocean.

[138] Oh, my God.

[139] Hot take girl summer.

[140] Get ready for me. Yeah.

[141] My summer's just going to be hot takes of me making shit up.

[142] I mean, let's go back to the pre -Enternet times where you could just make shit up and no one would ever know.

[143] I miss that and I want it to be real.

[144] I used to be so smart.

[145] So sad.

[146] Those times are over now.

[147] Let's see.

[148] What else have you got?

[149] What else is there?

[150] I watched the movie shampoo for the first time in my life and I figured I thought you'd make that face.

[151] I thought you'd make that shocked what the fuck face.

[152] How did you feel about it?

[153] I loved it.

[154] I couldn't believe I'd never seen it.

[155] Vince and I both were like, that's weird.

[156] Somehow we missed that.

[157] I think I was like, no, no, I've seen that before.

[158] I've seen hairspray.

[159] I thought it was hairspray.

[160] I didn't realize there was another movie called shampoo and one called Hairspray.

[161] I've seen Saw.

[162] What?

[163] Sharp Instrument movie?

[164] Yeah.

[165] But what did you like about it?

[166] Okay, Warren Beatty, he's this like juggalo.

[167] The juggalo barber?

[168] Jigolo Barber, around town L .A., which I love the like scenes from L .A. 70s L .A. It's like kind of gross.

[169] The sexual revolution's going.

[170] going on, you know, what's your face is the cutest thing on the planet.

[171] Julie Christie?

[172] No, the other cutest thing on the world.

[173] Goldie Hawn.

[174] Goldie Hawn is like, are you kidding me?

[175] How is that a real person?

[176] Right.

[177] It was scandalous.

[178] Yeah, I liked it.

[179] But I liked it.

[180] It was like, nothing is going on.

[181] We were Benz and I were both like, nothing is happening.

[182] There's no point of this movie.

[183] There's no plot, but I can't stop watching it.

[184] That's, they used to be able to make movies like that.

[185] So that's Hal Ashby, if I'm not mistaken.

[186] Hal Ashby is a director who did Harold and Maud.

[187] And many other incredible films that you kind of go, wait, I was just transported somewhere.

[188] Yeah.

[189] And it wrapped up without a good ending, like without a solid, it didn't make me feel good in the end at all.

[190] Yeah, because look around this dirty town.

[191] Like this is the way it is here.

[192] Like all those kind of, like I love the way he just lies.

[193] He's lying to Goldingham the entire fucking time as he's falling in love with Julie Christie, spoiler alert.

[194] It's just, but it's visually, like, when he gives her that haircut.

[195] Oh my God, that bob, the largest bob that's ever happened.

[196] It's like up and out from her head.

[197] It's one of my favorite.

[198] Like, the first time I saw it, I was like, all these visuals are feeding me. It was great.

[199] Yeah, it was a very like, oh, let's throw this on.

[200] Maybe it won't be good.

[201] I can't stop watching this.

[202] Wait, it's over.

[203] That's the ending.

[204] So, yeah.

[205] directors of the 70s say, uh -ah, that's what you get.

[206] That's how life is or whatever I don't.

[207] There's always a lesson.

[208] Always a lesson.

[209] That's a good one.

[210] What's a, uh, I want to see Furiosa in the theater very badly, but I haven't done it yet.

[211] Okay.

[212] I'll see it at home.

[213] You'll go ahead and stay home for that.

[214] I'll stay home for most, for almost everything.

[215] But do you remember that we saw the last Mad Max in the theater together?

[216] Yeah, it was so loud.

[217] I remember that.

[218] hilariously loud and it was like everyone was on meth.

[219] So it was fast and really disturbing and it was one of the first like social things we did.

[220] Oh, like as friends.

[221] So you, I think, weren't comfortable telling me I don't like going to the movies.

[222] I don't like going to the movies.

[223] I didn't think I had to bring earplugs, which is like, that's such a dorky thing to do, you know?

[224] Like pull out earplugs in the middle of it.

[225] Especially that one where it was like knives in your ear.

[226] Totally.

[227] It's like, well, why did you come to this if you didn't want?

[228] want, you know, full -on stabbing in your eardrumbs.

[229] In the Cinerama dome.

[230] Surround sound.

[231] And that was 200 years ago.

[232] Well, all right.

[233] Well, from that time, Furiosa's arrived, which means we are back recording in the same room.

[234] Yeah.

[235] It's really nice.

[236] It's been a, what's it called?

[237] Decade.

[238] No, I'm doing a circle with my fingers.

[239] I was just like, that's supposed to.

[240] Full circle?

[241] Yep.

[242] Thank you.

[243] It's full circle I couldn't come up with as I was circling my fingers.

[244] Right, because you were thinking about not thinking, not being able to say it.

[245] Right.

[246] And I'm drinking a can of wine.

[247] I brought one can of wine to drink for this entire episode.

[248] Slam it.

[249] Shotgun it right now.

[250] No. Did you put that in your purse?

[251] Like, I'm going to take this.

[252] I'm going to bring this with me?

[253] Yeah.

[254] Actually, no. It's more embarrassing than that.

[255] Oh.

[256] Okay, Vince.

[257] You stopped at the liquor store?

[258] No. Worst.

[259] Vince got it for me. I was like, I want one can of wine, like, just for the episode.

[260] I don't want more.

[261] I'll drink it.

[262] So he got it from me. It was warm.

[263] He got a little cooler, filled it with ice for the one can.

[264] And I drove over here.

[265] And it was cold by the time I got here.

[266] And you're still divorcing him?

[267] It doesn't make sense.

[268] Could you imagine?

[269] Why?

[270] Someone who does something so thoughtful.

[271] I was like, I could just put ice in a cup and pour it.

[272] And he's like, no, no, you're doing this.

[273] No, watch this.

[274] Yeah.

[275] He's the fucking bad.

[276] You know what he got me for my birthday this past week?

[277] weekend.

[278] By the way, can we all stop?

[279] Happy birthday, Georgia Hardstar.

[280] I feel so old.

[281] Thank you.

[282] There's this company called Silver Lake Socialite that does these incredible, like, cheeseboards.

[283] They're like, if you've seen the Grammys and they have those cheeseboards on all of them, she did them all.

[284] Wait, sorry.

[285] Do they feature cheeseboards on the Grammys?

[286] No, but they were like on the tables this year.

[287] Oh, really?

[288] Yeah.

[289] They're like, nice.

[290] Like Jay -Z was like, this is nice.

[291] So she now does a fucking caviar board.

[292] Oh shit I know So he got me that For my birthday And I got you I got you this for your birthday He's like told it to me one night I'm like cool I'm gonna invite all my girlfriends over to have it And I was like Oh wait a minute You might want to have done that with me That's maybe why you got it Was he like forget it Yeah I mean how much caviar can you eat Just the little thing of caviar And then it's a bunch of little things That you would eat with it all over the place Oh good Because I thought the whole thing was caviar like cheese On a charcutory board I didn't edit that entire thing out.

[293] It's boring.

[294] No, it wasn't.

[295] That's a good gift.

[296] Okay.

[297] Let's do a couple more gift suggestions.

[298] Caviar's a good gift.

[299] It sounds so bougie, though.

[300] It's pretty bougie, but that's what makes it like it's a special occasion.

[301] Yeah.

[302] Because would you get that normally?

[303] No, absolutely not.

[304] Caviar?

[305] Remember, we went to a caviar restaurant in Beverly Hills one time.

[306] Not Beverly Hills, like by the Beverly Center.

[307] Yeah.

[308] You don't eat caviar.

[309] Why did we do that?

[310] Because we were trying to be, like, we were trying to celebrate.

[311] Oh, that's right.

[312] We had just, yeah, I remember where we had been.

[313] That's right.

[314] So it was like, let's be fancy with these Russians.

[315] And then it was the most, I was like, this is too expensive and ordered, like, an egg.

[316] It was so expensive and so, like, it felt like we went to someone's controlling grandma's house.

[317] I was kind of scared the whole time.

[318] They knew we weren't supposed to be there.

[319] They could tell.

[320] Yeah.

[321] They saw the hay in our hair.

[322] They're like, if you just had to ask what the market prices, then you don't.

[323] You can't afford the market price.

[324] Well, you know what?

[325] We should call them right now and say, guess what?

[326] We're about to tell our listeners what's going on in our podcast network.

[327] So I guess we win.

[328] Whose market price is highest now, bitch?

[329] Hey, who wins the Caviar Wars now?

[330] What?

[331] What?

[332] Okay.

[333] We have a podcast network.

[334] We're sitting in the podcast network studio right now.

[335] That's right.

[336] Should we tell everyone about a couple of things about the podcast network?

[337] Yes.

[338] Over on, I saw what you did.

[339] Millie and Danielle are back with a double -frey.

[340] feature of oh there will be blood from 2007 and george's Halloween costume from two years ago or was it three the royal tenant bombs from 2001 hell yeah and then also kate winkler dawson and paul holes cover a brutal historical murder on buried bones they discuss the perrington family murders from 1806 in augusta main and then over on i said no gifts this week bridger's guest is actor ER Fightmaster from shrill and from Gray's Academy.

[341] Nope.

[342] I was literally like five sentences over in that direction.

[343] Like I'd stopped looking at the page.

[344] Leave that in.

[345] I have to leave that in.

[346] I'm so sorry.

[347] Please forget.

[348] They were not in Grey's Academy.

[349] For real, ER Fightmaster, I sincerely apologize.

[350] You were actually in Grey's Anatomy.

[351] That's what really happened.

[352] Grace Academy.

[353] That's my new TV show.

[354] That's your new TV show.

[355] It's a spin -off.

[356] We're like, yeah, they're going to school to become doctors.

[357] Bad doctors.

[358] Before they became doctors, they had to go to school.

[359] Prequel.

[360] Prequel.

[361] Like NyQuil.

[362] Prequil.

[363] It's a prequel.

[364] And then Hot Dog Summer continues.

[365] The MFM merch store now has SSDGM Hot Dog Coosies for all your summer beverages.

[366] I wish I had one right now.

[367] And we need to get some for the office.

[368] Yeah, we do.

[369] And both of the T -shirt styles of the hot dog have been restocked.

[370] I have one at home.

[371] I just wore it the other day.

[372] I mean.

[373] It's a hitch.

[374] shirt.

[375] It is.

[376] I believe Aaron Brown, who runs our merch department, said it's one of our best selling shirts.

[377] Amazing.

[378] So visit exactly right store .com for all that and other merch.

[379] Do you like hot dogs?

[380] I wonder.

[381] Yeah, prove it by wearing a shirt with a hot dog on it.

[382] It's the only way we'll know.

[383] Karen, when it comes to cleaning the house, there's a really no better motivator than having people over.

[384] That's right.

[385] I am a big fan of the panic clean.

[386] Me too.

[387] But, But if you're out of crucial cleaning supplies, the panic becomes a little too real.

[388] Luckily, you don't have to spare a single second running to the store when you have your cleaning supplies delivered with DoorDash.

[389] Whether you're out of paper towels or need to replace that ancient sponge in the sink, DoorDash has you and your kitchen covered.

[390] And don't forget about the bathroom.

[391] How's your hand soap inventory?

[392] Did you have wipes to clean the counters?

[393] Don't worry, DoorDash does.

[394] And since panic cleaning can be a real workout, you might want your Dasher to pick up a sports drink or some deodorant for you.

[395] and we would never judge you here.

[396] No, never.

[397] DoorDash is a safe space for you to order whatever you need in the moment.

[398] With hundreds of stores, including major retailers like Target, CVS, Lowe's, and PetSmart, DoorDash has everything you need to get your house into shape.

[399] So next time you're out of something you need right now, search the DoorDash app and check out all your options.

[400] DoorDash, your door to more.

[401] Download the DoorDash app now to get almost anything delivered.

[402] Must be 21 or older to order alcohol, drink responsibly, alcohol available only in select markets.

[403] Goodbye.

[404] This podcast is brought to you in part by Squarespace.

[405] Georgia, do you ever walk into a news store and immediately think I love it here already?

[406] Yes, literally every time I go into a new vintage shop.

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[418] Goodbye.

[419] Well, I think you're first this week, right?

[420] I'm first.

[421] Yes.

[422] Here we go.

[423] Are you ready to do it in person?

[424] I don't know if I could do this.

[425] Can you tell me a story in person?

[426] I can try.

[427] It might be messy, chaotic.

[428] Oops, it is.

[429] Oh, shit.

[430] She broke the microphone.

[431] Oh, no. Alejandro, she broke it.

[432] Don't tell Alejandro on me. It's broken and everyone's staring at you.

[433] Get your fucking eyes away from me. There.

[434] Stop turning it to the side.

[435] Everything's fine.

[436] We had a sound guy that used to get so mad because anytime anyone goes at an award show goes up to speak in the microphone when it's those ones that are kind of.

[437] a set there.

[438] The skinny, like, long ones?

[439] Yes.

[440] People always go up and just start moving it around.

[441] They want to touch it.

[442] Yes.

[443] And our sound guy used to always be like, those are set perfectly for anyone of any height.

[444] You do not have to move.

[445] What is that need and want to move the microphone?

[446] It's like, here, hold on a second.

[447] I'll do it.

[448] I know better.

[449] Here.

[450] And it's also, this is more comfortable for me, which is like, great.

[451] Now you fuck the sound up.

[452] Yeah.

[453] Well, and that's why.

[454] That's why we're talent.

[455] And that's why we're talent with a capital T. Listen, this has it all.

[456] Great.

[457] There's a mob connection in it.

[458] I know you love that.

[459] My favorite.

[460] The story is from the 1950s.

[461] And it's one of New York's most notorious unsolved mysteries that I hadn't heard of before.

[462] It starts with an affable bank robber.

[463] And it ends with a possible mob hit.

[464] Perfection.

[465] My perfect night.

[466] The main sources I used for this story were articles from the New York Times.

[467] Oh, the number one.

[468] and the Daily News and the rest can be found in our show notes.

[469] Okay.

[470] Our story begins with a bank robber named Willie Sutton like classic.

[471] It sounds familiar.

[472] Yeah.

[473] Yeah, right.

[474] Willie is born in Brooklyn in 1901.

[475] He starts robbing banks in the 20s.

[476] He's known as the gentleman bank robber.

[477] Finally.

[478] I know because he's so polite.

[479] He's said to avoid hurting people during his robberies and one witness to one of his robberies says it was like being at the movies except the usher was holding a gun like right this way ma 'am come to your seat so a hand on the small of your back a nice like confident hand on the side not in the small of your back just here we're going this way yeah but then also just a light poke in the rib yeah the hand is a gun is actually a gun hand is a gun and then the poke in the rib is the snickers that you got at the concessions yeah he's known to be a pretty affable guy and whenever he does get caught, he's a good sport about it.

[480] Ah, you got me. You know what I mean?

[481] Hey, you guys.

[482] You guys got me. Good on you kind of a thing.

[483] You know, if that's the only thing that make America great again meant, I would be like, I agree to.

[484] I wish the affability factor was more at play these days.

[485] Sure.

[486] And the gentlemanly, kindly violent crime.

[487] Yeah, with less guns.

[488] Yeah.

[489] Yeah.

[490] Willie's nickname, his bank robber nickname, is the actor because he and his crew use costumes.

[491] It's not a great name really, honestly.

[492] I don't know who made it up, but they use costumes.

[493] So they dress up as a postal worker, a police officer, messengers, or maintenance workers.

[494] So someone came up with the actor.

[495] Like, you could have done better than that.

[496] Yeah.

[497] What about the costumer?

[498] Yeah.

[499] Right.

[500] What about that guy I didn't expect to rob me?

[501] Right.

[502] Right.

[503] That's due long.

[504] Yeah.

[505] But when he's off the clock, Willie is known for his.

[506] his impeccable style.

[507] So he dresses like that when he's robbing banks, but when he's off the clock, he's like, fucking suited up, looks so good.

[508] Fats, tails, tops.

[509] Yep.

[510] And he's known for his love of expensive clothes.

[511] I mean, who wouldn't be?

[512] So he has to rob banks so he can have a wonderful wardrobe?

[513] Sure.

[514] Love it.

[515] In 1931, Willie is caught and sentenced to 30 years in prison, but he escapes a year and a half later.

[516] He had somehow, he had somehow walking around the yard at the fucking prison found two ladders.

[517] He had happened upon two ladders as you do in prison.

[518] He's the only one that found them.

[519] He took one, stacked the other one on top, and clum out of the fucking prison.

[520] Just like Bugs Bunny would have.

[521] Like legit Bugs Bunny.

[522] And at that point I'm like, okay, then he deserves, then like his sentences, it's like kind of on you guys.

[523] He won that.

[524] He won that one.

[525] He won that one.

[526] Yeah.

[527] Georgia really quick.

[528] You said clumb.

[529] I know.

[530] No. That's a joke.

[531] That's comedy.

[532] Oh, I know what I said.

[533] Leave that and do it.

[534] Okay.

[535] He's caught again in 1934.

[536] In 1941, he attempts an escape by making an incredibly realistic plastic sculpture of his head and his hand.

[537] And so he took real hair from the prison barber shop.

[538] He like put it on the head, maybe the hands.

[539] I don't know how hairy he was.

[540] And he touched every little hair on the finger is perfectly glued on.

[541] And they're like, oh, it's him.

[542] He's sleeping.

[543] And they like tucked it into bed.

[544] So it looked like he was sleeping.

[545] And his hand, like his hand was there too.

[546] Like a little baby hand under his cheek.

[547] Yeah.

[548] It's like a perfect cartoon of like the snoring, you know.

[549] And that attempt is foiled because it's just so happens that that same night some other prisoners were attempting an escape.

[550] So they're like locked down.

[551] And he's like, fuck.

[552] But in 1945, he successfully tunnels his way out this time.

[553] That time he's caught just one day later.

[554] Two years after that, February 10.

[555] 1947 and Willie is in the Philadelphia County prison and one night he and two other prisoners dresses prison guards where did you find this fucking outfit yeah I keep finding shit over the years it's like they get they find a belt here and like part of this shirt here maybe even multiples of those they have at that prison they have a litter problem because people are throwing things away higgledy biggledy oh man you hate to see it they dress as prison guards and they carry two ladders across the prison yard again they found two ladders and this is for real yes at one point the prison searchlights fucking find them beamed down on them in their prison uniforms and ladders don't touch me and willie just yells out it's okay that's what he yells out and guess what it is okay and it turns out it is okay it's okay everyone's like sounds good you just keep it up and sounds good you know how prison guards like to take ladders to the wall and scale them we got it's okay Cool.

[556] Then they hijack a milk truck and scaddle.

[557] And he's on the lamb for the next three years.

[558] So this one works.

[559] I want to tell you really quickly, as an aside, this is apropos of episode 430 about Richard Dad, the artist that you covered.

[560] Yeah.

[561] Someone brought the head and hand sculptures onto Antiques Roadshow.

[562] Oh my God.

[563] Someone had the like barbershop head and hand.

[564] I'm going to sneak out.

[565] Oh my.

[566] Oh my.

[567] God.

[568] And they brought them to the Antiques Road Show.

[569] At the time in 2017, their value to be worth between, you want to guess?

[570] $27 ,000?

[571] No. It's one of those like, oh my God.

[572] But then it's like, it's 500.

[573] No, it's better than that.

[574] It's worth in 2017 between 2 ,500 and 3 ,500.

[575] Too low.

[576] Which is crazy.

[577] Like, I want to, I should watch this.

[578] How did they get them?

[579] I bet their grandpa was a warden.

[580] That's right.

[581] Yeah.

[582] And in 2021, their value to be worth now, their value.

[583] They're value.

[584] to be worth 10 ,000 to 12 ,000.

[585] That's more like it.

[586] That's, yeah.

[587] Also, what a weird, like, you buy that and put it on your mantle.

[588] Or your guest room.

[589] Your guest bedroom?

[590] It's always in the guest bedroom.

[591] You always have guests.

[592] Willie Sutton is one of those criminals who's pretty much a household name at this point.

[593] So, like, people love him because of his reputation for being a nice guy.

[594] He's also kind of a folk hero.

[595] And so during his time on the run, at the New York City, St. Patrick's Day parades, some kids possibly spot him.

[596] They get so excited that they lead the crowd and chanting his name, which is like, you're fucking harshing my mellow, bro.

[597] Like, if you like him that much, don't yell his name and point him out.

[598] Yeah.

[599] You know, cop.

[600] It's kind of like narkey.

[601] Well, but they're that excited that it's like, yes, like a star is there.

[602] And so he isn't caught.

[603] I don't know if it's definitely him or not, but that happens in it and he's not caught he pulls a the a richard i won't be able to make the reference dad no i was just like he's in a he's in a parade and then he ditches them which is a richard thing from the movie the thing forget it i don't know i don't either i want to shampoo no i want to help you i can't okay i'm going to keep on thinking about it and figure it out So then in March of 1950.

[604] The fugitive.

[605] Never seen it.

[606] That's why I couldn't help you.

[607] I know.

[608] I don't know what's wrong with me. I know.

[609] I know.

[610] I know.

[611] I will.

[612] Please will you do?

[613] Yes.

[614] You won't.

[615] You won't.

[616] Okay.

[617] It's a perfect movie.

[618] As long as I won't regret it.

[619] Spending it two hours.

[620] STEM to CERN.

[621] Don't you like Tommy Lee Jones?

[622] Haven't you always supported Tommy Lee Jones?

[623] I don't know how.

[624] I haven't seen it.

[625] I know exactly what movie you were talking about.

[626] I bet my dad put it on and I would leave the fucking room, because it looks so boring.

[627] It's perfection.

[628] It's the opposite of boring.

[629] Just a dad movie, though, you know?

[630] No. I don't know that.

[631] It starts with a horrifying murder.

[632] Oh, no. I'm there.

[633] I'm there.

[634] Okay.

[635] Then in March 1950, the FBI comes up with its first ever most wanted list and Willie is on it.

[636] Oh.

[637] Yeah, big time.

[638] There's just been a bank robbery in Queens and the robbers were exceedingly polite, but they left with money $67 ,000, which in today's money would be $800 ,000, $740 ,000.

[639] Oh, I was close.

[640] Yeah, you were.

[641] The agents are like, this has to be Willie.

[642] I bet this is him.

[643] They do this thing, which is really smart.

[644] They circulate his picture, like his most wanted picture, in tailor shops because he's well known for his love of expensive clothing.

[645] Yeah, smart.

[646] Yeah.

[647] So, like, that's where he'll be.

[648] Do you recognize this man's in seam?

[649] Right.

[650] Come on.

[651] Still got it.

[652] Back in the studio.

[653] So on February 18th, 1952, Willie Sutton has been on the run for two years.

[654] He's still Robin Banks.

[655] He starts to feel kind of comfortable probably because he has ridden under the flown under, been under the radar for so long.

[656] So he feels comfortable with taking a New York City subway and broad daylight.

[657] He's just living his life.

[658] He gets on a train at Union Square in Manhattan and rides a couple of stops into Brooklyn and this will be a fatal error not for Willie but for the man who recognizes him oh pause for water pause for dramatic effect first of all I kind of love how this story is I thought it was going to be different it's not it's it's not at all it's good it's one thing it's another so at the stop before willies a young man named Arnold Schuster gets on the train he's a pretty typical normal 24 -year -old guy.

[659] He lives in Borough Park in Brooklyn.

[660] Arnold's father is a tailor.

[661] Remember that?

[662] Remember that?

[663] Yes, I do.

[664] And clothing salesman.

[665] And Arnold works in his shop.

[666] What guess what he saw when he was there?

[667] The Willie.

[668] The flyer.

[669] Oh, oh.

[670] No. The most wanted flyer.

[671] Just the face.

[672] Yeah.

[673] He's like that, you know, because that's where they put them.

[674] Oh, my God.

[675] Arnold is also a huge fan of detective magazine.

[676] And so he reads every story about gangsters that he can find.

[677] So when he gets on the subway in downtown Brooklyn and sees a sharply dressed man on a train, he does a double take.

[678] He, what he does is he shits a brick.

[679] You'd love it.

[680] It would just be like, oh, I guess out there.

[681] That's my chance.

[682] Yes, yeah.

[683] The man that we now know is Willie notices Arnold looking at him.

[684] He ducks his head.

[685] Arnold is pretty sure this is Willie Sutton.

[686] Willie's like, fuck, he can like tell by the way his that brick just got shit and so he gets off the train and starts walking and Arnold without even thinking about it starts to follow him it would be hard not to yeah so he's tailing him willie gets into a car but the car won't start and Arnold watches as he goes across the street to a gas station and comes out with a car battery and starts working on the car so maybe he didn't know he was actually being followed right well there's nothing you could do about it either way right right I mean you could run and leave your car did it sorry did it say how old this kid was that was following him?

[687] 24.

[688] Oh, yeah.

[689] He's a young man. So Arnold is like, do, do, do keeps walking.

[690] He's like, sure, this is really Sutton.

[691] Once he's around the block, he flags down to police officers and he says, quote, you'll probably think I'm crazy, but I just saw Willie Sutton.

[692] The cops think this will probably be a wild goose chase.

[693] They're like, whatever, but they go to the guy working on the car on the next block and say, quote, are you Willie Sutton?

[694] End quote.

[695] Not surprisingly, Willie.

[696] The bank Robert, known as the actor, says he isn't.

[697] And then his name is Gordon.

[698] Have a nice day.

[699] He shows them his car registration.

[700] It's under the name, Charles Gordon.

[701] And then he shows them a collection of different hats.

[702] See, C, captain, bowler.

[703] And so the two B cops are like, great, that's enough for us and keep moving.

[704] Like, they're not going to stay later doing paperwork that day, you know.

[705] Well, and also if it is that name on the thing, that it's just like, yeah, we're bothering a guy.

[706] Yeah.

[707] And like there's no other way in the 50s to like look up someone's identity, right?

[708] No, I think you had to, it would have had to have been passed down in your family to have known what that person's name was.

[709] Right.

[710] So they go back to the station.

[711] Arnold, the 24 year old, watches all of this from a distance.

[712] And when he sees the police leave, he goes home disappointed.

[713] He was like, I was sure I had this.

[714] Those two police officers, when they go back to the station, tell the story to their boss, a detective who decides to go follow up himself.

[715] He's like, I was sure, I was sure I had this.

[716] He's He's like, these two guys aren't very bright.

[717] Let me just do this on my own.

[718] So he does go back and finds the man still working on his car.

[719] You think he would have left after that.

[720] He was posted up really, he was like in the Craig and parking lot, really trying to get his.

[721] He really was.

[722] And he's like, hey, dude, sorry to bug you, but can you come back to the station and go over like who you really?

[723] I need to check and make sure you're who you really are.

[724] And so Willie obliges.

[725] and at the station he, you know, he's affable, doesn't take long before he gives up.

[726] And he says, okay, fellas, I'm really sudden.

[727] Like, he's not wasting anyone's time.

[728] He could have outsmarted them and, like, gotten out of it.

[729] He also could have, like, made three different decisions and gotten away from that broken down car.

[730] Yeah.

[731] Weird.

[732] Like, he kind of wanted to get caught, maybe.

[733] He was wrapping it up.

[734] Yeah.

[735] So that night at home in Borough Park, Arnold, our guy from the train, hears on the radio that the famous bank robber.

[736] Willie Sutton has been apprehended in Brooklyn.

[737] It turns out that for almost three years, Willie had been living near where he was arrested in a small apartment on Dean Street, just three blocks from the police precinct.

[738] Anything is possible in New York City.

[739] It's true.

[740] The killer could be right around the corner.

[741] Shit.

[742] Arnold listens as the two officers that he had pointed out, fucking Willie Sutton's right there and they had been like, nope, and left.

[743] They are mentioned by name and heartily congratulated.

[744] Like they're the heroes of the day.

[745] The police commissioner, a man named George Monaghan, is beside himself with excitement that night at a press conference.

[746] He hugs the two police officers and the detective and gives them all promotions right on the spot.

[747] Wow.

[748] And he says there's going to be a ceremony at City Hall in their honor.

[749] I mean, Arnold must be furious.

[750] He was.

[751] And that sets in motion some shit.

[752] Okay.

[753] Yeah.

[754] Arnold's a little upset.

[755] He wants credit for having recognized Willie Sutton.

[756] And more importantly, in the detective magazines and in articles about Willie Sutton, there's been a mention of a reward for information leading to his arrest.

[757] Some articles say it's worth 70 grand back then.

[758] Whoa.

[759] Which in today's money.

[760] 500 grand?

[761] 8288.

[762] Whoa.

[763] That's a fucking shit ton of money.

[764] It's so much money.

[765] Yeah.

[766] So he's like, what the fuck?

[767] You know, I want credit and I want money.

[768] So he calls the police station asking about the reward.

[769] He can't get anyone on the phone.

[770] Shocking.

[771] So then he hires a lawyer and goes wide with his story.

[772] He tells reporters that he was the one who first noticed Willie.

[773] And he gives his own press conference telling reporters about how he recognized Willie from the FBI flyer that had been hanging in his father's shop.

[774] The police commissioner confirms that that was, you know, it was him who really started this ball rolling.

[775] And so he cancels the celebration for the police officers, but they still get there.

[776] their promotion.

[777] Oh, half measure.

[778] So almost immediately after coming forward, Arnold starts getting threatening letters in the mail because you know that they fucking interviewed him and put his address down.

[779] Yeah.

[780] Arnold Schuster of, you know.

[781] Yeah, exactly.

[782] That's how they do it.

[783] Apartment B. But also he turned in a guy who had connections.

[784] Yeah.

[785] Then he fucked over the cops.

[786] Yeah.

[787] Which is very bad.

[788] That's a good point.

[789] You know, like it's as bad as fucking over criminals.

[790] Yeah.

[791] Yeah.

[792] Who could it be?

[793] Right.

[794] The Schuster family gets a total of 12 letters and so many threatening phone calls that they change their phone number.

[795] Because even other phone number was just in the public as well, I'm sure.

[796] According to some articles at the time, the NYPD offers Arnold around the clock protection and he declines.

[797] But they still check on the Schuster family home periodically.

[798] The Schuster family will later deny that any protection was ever offered.

[799] Also, why would you want protection from the people that could potentially be the ones threatening you?

[800] Right.

[801] It's wild.

[802] So, in March 8, 1952, less than a month after Arnold reported seeing Willie, Arnold takes the bus home to Borough Park in the evening.

[803] After he gets off the bus at about 9 p .m., he starts to walk home.

[804] Then someone comes out from the shadows and shoots him four times with a 38.

[805] Just on the street?

[806] Killing him.

[807] Wow.

[808] Yeah, and there's like a photo of it.

[809] like a vintage crime scene photo he shot once in each eye oh once in the head and once in the groin oh yeah personal ducked up right once in each eye is too much well it turns out that that's a symbol of a mob hit like you witnessed this thing and you're in trouble for it okay I don't want to tell the mob what to do but it that's overkill it's too much yeah I mean and then it's like okay But then, so then the NYPD launches a massive investigation.

[810] They interview more than 4 ,000 people.

[811] But guess who's going to say anything to the cops at this point?

[812] You know, they sent the message and the message worked.

[813] Yeah, he's not talking.

[814] Nobody's talking.

[815] Yeah.

[816] No one's talking.

[817] There was a potential eyewitness and they were like, nope, absolutely not.

[818] I'm not talking.

[819] I didn't see anything.

[820] Commissioner Monaghan says, quote, more than anything else in my public life, I want to break this case.

[821] like he was he said he really wanted to write this case and the story spreads through the country and ignites a public outrage that like basically an innocent bystander who tried to do the right thing gets murdered for it and also just to say in my always suspicious mind that the cops could have easily murdered him made it look like a mob hit because those are all the telltale signs quote unquote yeah that's very true i'm sure it was embarrassing though too that he was killed I think that, like, it just looked bad on their reputation, too, if they didn't do it, let's say.

[822] Right.

[823] People suspect certain of Sutton's friends.

[824] There's a man named Frederick Tenuto.

[825] He's a convicted killer who escaped prison with Willie in 1947.

[826] Tanudo himself is added to the FBI's Most Wanted list, but he isn't apprehended.

[827] He eventually dies in the 1960s while still on the lamb.

[828] There's also a legend in mob lore, your favorite.

[829] Oh, ask me anything.

[830] that the mafia boss Albert Anastasia ordered the hit.

[831] So this guy, Albert, is the head of what would become the Gambino Crime Family.

[832] The Gambino Crime Family as I live and breathe.

[833] The story is that this is the story that Albert didn't even know Willie Sutton, that he saw the story on TV and said, quote, I can't stand squealers, end quote, and sent someone to go kill Arnold.

[834] Like, just like was so angry.

[835] at the like you know the morals I guess you could say of it like being a snitch of being a snitch yeah yeah he sent someone to go kill this poor kid wow yeah wait sorry was that a theory or they found out that that is true so that's a theory however it would be out of character for the mob to order a hit on someone they had nothing to do with at all like that's not kind of their thing right their scene yes people say Albert though had become unhinged at this point and And in his memoirs, Lucky Luciano, yeah, hints that this actually did happen.

[836] Oh.

[837] That he had Albert killed.

[838] But in 1963, the first ever mafia member to break the organization's code of silence becomes an informant.

[839] His name is Joseph Valachi.

[840] And he will, to attest that Albert ordered the hit.

[841] Oh, sorry.

[842] Leona's art. Oh.

[843] She was squalachi.

[844] I was like, wait a second.

[845] Squalachie, Valachi.

[846] Wait a second.

[847] Bala.

[848] She.

[849] So it's probable.

[850] Yeah.

[851] It also turns out that the $70 ,000 reward that Arnold had been trying to get wasn't even real.

[852] It had been misreported.

[853] Oh, so he's all keyed up about something that he couldn't have gotten anyway.

[854] His family does sue the New York City for failing to protect their son and the city settles with them for $41 ,000, which in today's money would be.

[855] $250 ,000?

[856] $4703 ,000.

[857] Oh, that's half a million dollars isn't bad.

[858] Yeah.

[859] So when Willie Sutton hears about the murder, remember fucking affable bank robber, the actor?

[860] I do.

[861] So he's fucking sitting in jail because he had gotten caught because of Albert, right?

[862] Right.

[863] He's sitting in jail.

[864] He hears about the murder.

[865] He is so bummed about it.

[866] Well, of course he's a gentleman.

[867] Yeah.

[868] He can't believe someone got killed for giving him up in his name.

[869] Like he's actually so.

[870] upset about it.

[871] He says, quote, I could have fallen off the bed.

[872] This sinks me. Oh.

[873] I know.

[874] He writes to the Schuster family and offers his condolences.

[875] So this guy, if it was up to him, it was a fair game.

[876] The guy who caught him, caught him.

[877] You know what I mean?

[878] Yes, of course.

[879] So a real award is offered for information leading to the arrest of Arnold's killer.

[880] And Willie offers to contribute $10 ,000 to that reward.

[881] Come on.

[882] I know.

[883] This guy is a dream bank robber.

[884] Dream.

[885] Authorities decline.

[886] his money though they're like that might be inappropriate you know what you know what no yeah we're gonna go no if you want to just give some money to the family fine yeah but this looks bad willie is eventually sent to attica prison in upstate new york with multiple life sentence but he's released due to poor health in 1969 where he met karen and you guys got married hey wait a second that was one year before i was born.

[887] But he, multiple life sentences just for robbing banks.

[888] Yeah.

[889] Wow.

[890] Yeah, I think it's pretty serious.

[891] Well, gun.

[892] It's like, yeah.

[893] I should also say that though in the beginning, he is charged with assault.

[894] So take all that with a grain of salt.

[895] So he might have hit someone with a gun in the head at one point.

[896] Perhaps not always the perfect gentleman.

[897] Right.

[898] Right.

[899] That's how actors are.

[900] So Willie Sutton dies in Florida in 1980.

[901] But before that, he publishes a book about his life.

[902] about Arnold Schuster he writes quote throughout my career I had plotted and planned my jobs to make sure that I would not have to hurt anybody and now after it was over and I was sitting in jail a good looking promising young man had been killed because of me the laughter of the gods end quote wow yeah and that is the story of the unsolved murder of Arnold Schuster amazing story thank you right and well told oh thank you that i said thank you to something you did compliment me on i tricked you i pulled you right in but here's the thing about fucking crime it's like he's sitting there right this is such a story from the like 40s and 50s right because he's like it's the gentleman we all love him but it's like yeah but that's exactly what happens when you start fucking around with crime and guys you can't control all the circumstances as much as you want to yeah and you have a plan and you're this kind of person.

[903] Yeah.

[904] It's now out of your hands.

[905] Take those morals, get a job at the fucking grocery store.

[906] That's right.

[907] And slug it along with everybody else.

[908] I heard Costco's a great place to work.

[909] I love it there.

[910] Yeah.

[911] Their hot dogs.

[912] You know, me and my sister went and got hot dogs there the last time I was...

[913] No. I didn't tell you that story.

[914] No. I could have sworn because we've been so hot dog themed lately.

[915] Every time you eat a hot dog, I have to know.

[916] I should report in.

[917] I wish you would.

[918] But we were sitting in the parking lot.

[919] Uh, wait, I lost it.

[920] Something funny happened as we were both eating these hot dogs.

[921] Oh, I found out my sister does not like relish after all this time.

[922] I was going to ask you what you, what, like, put everything on, what's the deal?

[923] She's ketchup and mustard, which repelled me and made me go, like, have I not ever looked at you?

[924] Why are you only mustard?

[925] Mustard relish.

[926] Oh, listen, that plus ketchup, I'm happy.

[927] No. I'll put fucking any condiment on a hot dog that's like there to be put on a hot dog.

[928] what hold on let me think of when you wouldn't onions chili cheese shredded cheese pickles those all sound good but together i think i'm talking about mixing would you put mayo on a hotline i don't put mayo on anything fuck no it's so gross fuck your mayo no if you put meo on your hot dog right into my favorite murder at gmail hold on uh oh the dirty dog that you get in LA outside of sports arenas and clubs that are grilled right on the fucking flat top there.

[929] Hell yes.

[930] I just let them make it for me because it's made a certain way.

[931] It's everyone, you have to have a dirty dog.

[932] It's a bacon wrapped hot dog that's like sold on the streets in L .A. It's so delicious.

[933] Fucking incredible.

[934] Always good.

[935] And they put mayo on it.

[936] Like I don't, I'll never say no mayo because they know best what it's supposed to take like.

[937] Very true.

[938] Smart.

[939] I will eat.

[940] Yes.

[941] So mayo.

[942] I'll do mayo.

[943] And do they put the mayo on it like they put it on the corn?

[944] Yeah.

[945] Yeah.

[946] That's kind of funny.

[947] It's like, well, yeah.

[948] This is good.

[949] This is like how, this is good, a good way to eat this kind of travel food.

[950] Yeah.

[951] You got to have mayo.

[952] I fucking can't stand mayo.

[953] I think it's the most disgusting thing.

[954] But I will eat it on some things.

[955] I mean, it's necessary.

[956] Yeah.

[957] Purely for moisture on many things.

[958] Right.

[959] And then you have to get Dukes too.

[960] Have you had Dukes Mayo?

[961] No. That's like, Vince is like, we're not allowed to have any mayo in the house with Dukes.

[962] Is it a Midwestern thing?

[963] I think it's a Midwest or East Coasty thing.

[964] Someone will yell at us about that.

[965] Huh.

[966] Because my mom, the rule was no mayo but best foods.

[967] Never had that.

[968] That's the one with the blue.

[969] It's like the classic.

[970] Yeah.

[971] Miracle whip?

[972] No. He looked so disappointed in me when you said that to say.

[973] Well, only because my mom was such a hard ass about best foods that the first time I had Miracle Whip, it was like someone put a packet of sugar into the mayo.

[974] It was the weirdest.

[975] experience.

[976] Best foods is real Mayo.

[977] Miracle Whip is the fucking weird shit.

[978] It's the weird shit, but it's like, whatever.

[979] It's just, they put a little zing in it because it's supposed to be like, you know, it's something a little different than mayo.

[980] Oh, a little classier.

[981] And man, like that first bologna and cheese sandwich, I was like, what is happening?

[982] Someone loves that.

[983] That's someone's like hangover treat.

[984] This is, we're actually starting a huge fight on the internet right now.

[985] What about you?

[986] Are you a Kupi Mayo person?

[987] Hey, Karen, do you know how to find out if someone is a cat person?

[988] They'll tell you all about it.

[989] That's very true.

[990] Cat people love to talk about our cats, but you know what we don't love is smelly litter boxes.

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[1008] Goodbye.

[1009] one rule you have a hard time following?

[1010] Drinking eight glasses of water a day.

[1011] I have work.

[1012] Right?

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[1020] I mean, there's being hung over.

[1021] They sent us a lot of liquid IV.

[1022] Everyone I know is so excited where I was like, hey, do you like this?

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[1024] Like, me giving it out became like Christmas in the summertime.

[1025] But I started drinking it just when I kind of feel like low energy because all those things, like it's great for him.

[1026] hangovers, do you have enough salt in your system?

[1027] Do you have all those kinds of like electrolytes that you don't really think about and definitely need?

[1028] Yeah, because I don't drink enough water.

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[1032] Goodbye.

[1033] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[1034] Absolutely.

[1035] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[1036] Exactly.

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[1052] That's shopify .com slash murder.

[1053] Goodbye.

[1054] Okay, well, great job.

[1055] Thank you.

[1056] We're definitely going to turn.

[1057] Okay.

[1058] I don't know how many degrees, though.

[1059] Okay.

[1060] We're just going to have to feel it out.

[1061] I'm about to tell you a story that starts on the night of November 22nd, 1975 in Yakima, Washington.

[1062] It's so cold, the ground actually has snow on it.

[1063] But inside her home, Deanne Blankenbaker, who's in her late 20s, is, warm sleep in bed until sometime around 2 a .m. when she wakes up to a loud noise outside, she thinks it's the slam of a car door, doesn't think much about it, she goes back to sleep.

[1064] She wakes up again around 5 a .m. and she realizes that her partner, 32 -year -old Morris Blankenbaker, is not there.

[1065] So Morris is a high school coach by day.

[1066] At night, he works as a night shift bouncer at a local club.

[1067] Doubt there's a day shift bouncer.

[1068] But, But you never know what kind of clubs.

[1069] So he should have been home hours ago.

[1070] It was totally not normal that he wasn't there in bed.

[1071] So Deanne, of course, is worried.

[1072] She checks every room in the house, including her two young children's bedrooms.

[1073] But he is nowhere to be found.

[1074] She thinks, oh, maybe he was so tired when he got home that he, like, fell asleep in his car, in the driveway or something.

[1075] So she goes outside.

[1076] His car is there.

[1077] He is not inside.

[1078] Now she's getting really worried.

[1079] So she figures if his car's here, he's here somewhere.

[1080] So she starts to walk around the outside of the house.

[1081] And as she turns the corner to walk around the back side of the house, she finds Morris lying dead in the snow.

[1082] So she screams for help.

[1083] And when investigators arrive on the scene, they discover that Morris has been murdered, shot three times, and left to die.

[1084] So tragically, Morris Blank and Baker won't be the only man in Deanne's life to die.

[1085] during that holiday season in 1975, and he isn't even the only high school coach in Yakima to be murdered that winter.

[1086] This is the story of the strange deaths of Morris Blankin Baker and Gabby Moore, whose murders and their investigations left their small city scandalized.

[1087] Oh, okay, I'm here.

[1088] Okay, and here's really why you're here because the main source of this story is Anne Rule's book of fever in the heart.

[1089] And there's other sources, of course.

[1090] Please check them.

[1091] They're in our show notes.

[1092] But, of course, always read Anne Rules books.

[1093] Always.

[1094] Any chance you get.

[1095] So let's go back to the mid -60s when Deanne and Morris Blankenbaker first get married.

[1096] They're a perfect match, completely in love.

[1097] They're devoted to one another.

[1098] And to the outside world, they seem like a great couple.

[1099] They're objectively attractive people.

[1100] Diane has beautiful jet black hair and a very pretty beautiful.

[1101] face.

[1102] Morris is handsome, sporty.

[1103] Anne Rule describes him as quote, like a young Greek god with bulging biceps and a washboard stomach that's rippled with muscles.

[1104] Okay.

[1105] Anne's a little thirsty right now.

[1106] And you know what else?

[1107] He actually has a very 70s look.

[1108] Yeah.

[1109] Like he kind of looks his face is, he looks like a stunt man from a movie or a TV show.

[1110] He has kind of like a big face with a Yeah.

[1111] I can't explain it.

[1112] He's like attractive and also looks like he can take a car engine apart.

[1113] and he got offers to play professional football after college, but instead he decided to settle down in Yakima with Deanne because his lifelong dream was to become a coach.

[1114] So in the early 70s, Deanne and Morris have two small children, and they're going strong.

[1115] They both work hard to make ends meet.

[1116] Deanne works at a local bank, and Morris coaches at a nearby high school and then does his shifts as the bouncer at late night.

[1117] So they seem to have a happy home life and their beloved in their community.

[1118] Morris is the kind of guy that, like, everybody thinks is their friend and everybody in Yakima knows both of them.

[1119] They say he's kind -hearted, cool -headed to things that would really come in handy in both of the jobs that he has, actually.

[1120] So it makes sense that in late 1973, a man named Glenn Gabby Moore, Gabby is his AKA, would go to his old friend Morris.

[1121] for help.

[1122] Gabby and Morris go way back.

[1123] They have a special bond because Gabby was Morris's high school wrestling coach.

[1124] Okay.

[1125] Ann Rule writes this about it.

[1126] Quote, Morris met Gabby for the first time at Washington Junior High.

[1127] He viewed him as the hero figure that most boys see in their coaches.

[1128] Coaches, good coaches, shape the lives of their athletes forever after.

[1129] They're often the father figure that some boys and girls never had.

[1130] They can instill a sense of self -worth and inner confidence that lasts a lifetime, end quote.

[1131] Vince's dad was a PE teacher and the track coach.

[1132] Oh.

[1133] I know.

[1134] I mean, it's really true, though.

[1135] Oh, absolutely.

[1136] I remember my coaches that, like, that believed in me when I did not deserve believing in.

[1137] Yeah.

[1138] For sure.

[1139] Yes, you did deserve it.

[1140] Just because you were smoking and doing illicit drugs.

[1141] You're right.

[1142] You deserved it more.

[1143] Thank you.

[1144] But you're right.

[1145] it's that kind of a good coach is like the best parent but in a kind of detached way of like now I'm going to teach you how to take all that and use it in the world right because it's not about their feelings as well parents are like oh never mind there's a book about it there's probably a self -help book about it out there I don't need to tell how to coach your way into better parenting how to detach from your children and fucking coach them and yeah okay okay so Morris reveres his old coach the entire city of Yakima actually does because Gabby is such an excellent coach and has been for years and he coaches championship teams which of course that's the people love that so he's a local big shot Gabby but then something happens that flips Morris and Gabby's power dynamic completely which is in the early 1970s the two go on a white water rafting trip together Gabby falls in and Morris jumps in after him and saves his life.

[1146] But basically he was going to drown in the Whitewater Rapids.

[1147] But Morris is such a strong swimmer and such a great athlete that he basically rescues him.

[1148] Wow.

[1149] So they already share a strong bond now that, you know, besties for life.

[1150] Yeah.

[1151] So when Gabby reaches out and asks Morris for help, he's like, of course, whatever you need.

[1152] Turns out Gabby and his wife are getting a divorce and he needs a place to stay until he irons things out at home.

[1153] So Morris goes to Deanne, explains what's going on, asks if Gabby can move in.

[1154] Deanne isn't crazy about the idea because they have two preschool age children, another adult.

[1155] It seems like it's going to be like too busy, too hard.

[1156] Yeah, they got routines.

[1157] They got routines.

[1158] They don't have a ton of money, you know.

[1159] Probably space in their house.

[1160] Yeah.

[1161] Yeah, exactly.

[1162] I get it.

[1163] Don't take my chair type of stuff.

[1164] But eventually Deanne does give in.

[1165] and in December of 1973, Gabby moves into the Blankenbaker home.

[1166] And not long after the relationship between the two men shifts.

[1167] And this is because it shifts again in a way because Gabby is a huge secret alcoholic.

[1168] Oh, no. Yeah.

[1169] He's very good at hiding it.

[1170] Deanne does not see it at all.

[1171] Morris completely catches on and is like all over it.

[1172] And Gabby's drinking troubles him.

[1173] because it's totally unlike him.

[1174] This is not the man he knows him to be.

[1175] And when Gabby was Morris's coach, he didn't touch alcohol.

[1176] He preached, you know, sober living and healthy living.

[1177] So the fact that Gabby is not only drinking, but drinking an alarming amount of liquor.

[1178] And then when he does that, he gets like angry and aggressive.

[1179] All of that, Morris is like, what the hell is going on?

[1180] So to keep the peace, Morris basically is doing everything he can to keep.

[1181] keep this drinking away from Dian so she just doesn't have to deal with it and it kind of works Dian doesn't notice anything and thinks everything's fine a couple months pass and Gabby not only hasn't reconciled with his wife but he basically admits that he's fallen in love with another woman and in a twist that Morris never sees coming the woman is Dian no yes Yes.

[1182] And Dianne actually falls for Gabby.

[1183] She thinks he's this old town legend hero, great coach, doesn't really know.

[1184] Yeah.

[1185] So here's what Anne Rule writes about this.

[1186] Okay.

[1187] Quote, at first glance, it seemed highly unlikely that Gabby would be attractive to Deanne.

[1188] He was 42 years old.

[1189] Ouch.

[1190] Nowhere near as handsome as Morris.

[1191] But Gabby had one big advantage.

[1192] He was an unknown quantity to Deanne.

[1193] She had been with Morris since she was 17, the very fact that Gabby was 15 years older than Deanne may have drawn her to him.

[1194] His charisma and ability to inspire confidence drew her to him just as he inspired athletes.

[1195] Oh, no, don't do it.

[1196] So things between Gabby and Deanne move quickly, as you would imagine.

[1197] Less than three months after he, Gabby moves into the Blank and Baker home, Deanne tells Morris she's leaving him.

[1198] Not long after that, June of 1974.

[1199] After nine years of marriage, Morris and Deanne divorce.

[1200] Then in September of that year, exactly one year after Gabby first moved in with the Blanket Baker's, Deanne and Gabby get married.

[1201] Wow.

[1202] So as fast as humanly possible.

[1203] Sure.

[1204] Ouch.

[1205] I wonder, too, how this lines up because it's one of my favorite kind of factoids.

[1206] Because I remember it happening when I was around like seven or eight years old is in, and I don't know if it was nationwide.

[1207] or if it was California or what.

[1208] But all of a sudden, everyone's parents got divorced.

[1209] Yeah.

[1210] And it was like one of those things where I wonder if, like, it had started to become normalized.

[1211] She was like, oh, I can not only stop doing this, but I can start doing something else almost immediately.

[1212] Yeah.

[1213] It felt like it was a thing a lot of people were doing.

[1214] I bet there was some, you know, famous couple that divorced or some law that got changed and suddenly everyone was divorcing.

[1215] Yeah, I think it.

[1216] If I'm not mistaken, it was no fault divorce.

[1217] Where it's like, so you could just do it and be like, you know what, let's call it.

[1218] And I don't have to necessarily pay you 50 % or whatever.

[1219] I don't know.

[1220] We'll never know because that's not really our specialty here on this podcast.

[1221] We'll never know because no one will ever comment who's a lawyer, a historian and tell us the truth.

[1222] And tell us exactly how right and wrong the theory is.

[1223] Please do.

[1224] So this entire affair becomes the talk of the town, as it should.

[1225] Sure.

[1226] That's juicy as hell got.

[1227] So juicy.

[1228] It's the definition of a scandal, and Morris is the victim of two betrayals.

[1229] So, of course, the love of his life, Dian has deceived him.

[1230] And then his best friend and mentor who he was currently helping out in a bad situation and whose life he had already saved.

[1231] Just so it's like a fuck you in every way in every direction, just nasty.

[1232] And Morris, being the great guy that everyone loves, he does his best to respect his wife's decision.

[1233] he moves out of the house in a state of total grief but shortly and shortly into her new marriage Dian realizes that she has made a huge mistake Oh God Gabby can't hide his drinking anymore I'm sure they got married they went and had some fun and then it was like oh on our wedding night you're going to scream or whatever that's a total gas conjecture but it's that kind of thing where it's like oh you're comfortable together now and you're free that's going to get real oh dear And Dianne now sees how scary Gabby can be when he's drunk.

[1234] She will later say, quote, He loved you one minute and the next minute he just kicked you out of the house.

[1235] And I was getting a little bit scared of him.

[1236] He drank very heavily.

[1237] Within a two or three hour period, he would drink a fifth of bourbon.

[1238] That's too much.

[1239] That is so much brown liquor.

[1240] I feel we're taking a sip of my canned wine right now, but...

[1241] Do it.

[1242] Now you have to do it.

[1243] That's so much brown liquor.

[1244] And you know, like, it was a 70s, so he wasn't well hydrated.

[1245] or like eating good protein or anything like that smoking the entire time oh god yeah that's so much brown liquor is always the biggest mistake you make when you first start drinking where it's like i remember being like here's my personality i like captain morgan's spiced rum rough on the rocks uh with like pineapple juice mixed into it or something like that sounds like already vomit yeah like pre -vomit it made it so easy for you.

[1246] me to vomit everywhere and whenever I felt the meat okay so order that drink as drunk Karen I thought a little bit of no here's a thinner one little bit of Captain Morgan's you have that we don't have that ma 'am do you have any captain I guess we have yeah we have or anybody name Morgan this is a Burger King you better get me me pineapple juice.

[1247] Oh my God.

[1248] The other day, I got the old number seven at McDonald's.

[1249] They have orange high sea again.

[1250] I don't know if that it packed your life at all.

[1251] That's all I ever got is the orange drink.

[1252] I guess they took it away.

[1253] It may have come back sooner than just my experience, but I didn't know it was back and I got to have some and it was fucking great.

[1254] Two cheeseburger meal?

[1255] Yes.

[1256] Oh, how did I know that?

[1257] Yes, because we have lived together for fucking years.

[1258] Why, we are friends.

[1259] You simply must know.

[1260] And yours is filet of fish and a hot tea.

[1261] That's the most disgusting combination.

[1262] No joke.

[1263] A guy went to high school with order that one time when we were at McDonald's.

[1264] And I was like, seriously, are you trying to get the shit beaten out of you?

[1265] What are you doing?

[1266] That's the most disgusting ever.

[1267] And then you dip the filet fish into the hot tea.

[1268] It flakes off into your tea and becomes like a slush, a hot slush.

[1269] Okay, let's focus on the fundamentals.

[1270] In July of 1975, less than a year into this marriage, Deanne separates from Gabby, and she goes and reconciles with Morris.

[1271] What does Morris do when she goes to him and says, I made a mistake?

[1272] I love you and I missed you and come back home.

[1273] Oh, no. He forgives her, and they plan to remarry.

[1274] So Gabby moves into a rented apartment.

[1275] Basically, it's like this whole experiment.

[1276] is over and this is insane going back to normal.

[1277] Gabby goes into a rented apartment and he basically becomes obsessed with Deanne.

[1278] Oh, no. And with getting her back, Dian will say, quote, he would call daily, he stopped by a couple times, he would call me at work and then he would call me at home.

[1279] He even came out to the bank.

[1280] He would often say that he would like to commit suicide in front of me so that I would be on the fifth floor of Memorial, which is the psychiatric ward.

[1281] Wow.

[1282] And quote.

[1283] So this is a person that's like in a true kind of end stage alcoholism.

[1284] Yeah.

[1285] Bad time.

[1286] Yeah.

[1287] So now this brings us back to the night of November 22nd, 1975, when Deanne finds Morris's body at the house.

[1288] So after all of that, she finds him dead.

[1289] And this is just two years shy of Gabby first moving into the Blank and Baker's house.

[1290] So at this point, Deanne's been separated from Gabby.

[1291] she's back with Morris for about four months and the whole four months Gabby has just been harassing her constantly and Gabby is immediately viewed as a suspect when Morris is found but there's little evidence at the seam there are no witnesses to Morris's murder and Gabby has a rock solid alibi he was actually checked into the hospital at the time because his blood pressure was extremely high.

[1292] Oh yeah that's weird right so around 2 a .m. on November 22nd when Morris is believed to have been killed, when Deanne heard this sound that she thought was a car door slamming, records prove Gabby was actually in the hospital.

[1293] So still, police wonder if Gabby could have slipped out of the hospital and then snuck back in after he killed Morris.

[1294] That's ruled out because there's various ways to exit the hospital, but getting back into Gabby's room undetected would have been virtually impossible.

[1295] The doors are locked after visiting hours, even if he made it back to his assigned floor, past the various hospital employees he would have been having to sneak by or the locked doors, he would have had to bypass.

[1296] His room was literally right in front of the nurse's station.

[1297] Three nurses were on duty, the night Morris was killed.

[1298] And rule writes, quote, unless Gabby Moore had perfected the art of astral projection, the most viable suspect in the murder of Morris Blankenbaker had just been eliminated from the list of possible suspects.

[1299] Yeah.

[1300] But Gabby's behavior after Morris's death is suspect to say the least.

[1301] As the Blanken bakers enter the holiday season, mourning the loss of their father and their husband, Gabby is still trying to shoehorn his way back into Deanne's life.

[1302] Deanne's more repulsed by him than ever, of course.

[1303] And she's becoming increasingly convinced he had something to do with Morris's death.

[1304] I mean, it's a really great alibi to be in the hospital.

[1305] So, like, who was doing the dirty work when you had a great alibi?

[1306] There you are.

[1307] Yeah.

[1308] Here we, and here we arrive because it's almost like it's too perfect of an alibi.

[1309] Oh, you had the room right across from the nurse's station?

[1310] Totally.

[1311] So everyone had their eye on you the whole time.

[1312] Amazing.

[1313] But Gabby is adamant that he was not involved.

[1314] And he starts telling everyone around him, he's actually the victim of a stalker and that strange men have been calling him at all hours and threatening his life.

[1315] And they're harassing his mother, too.

[1316] And then Gabby reports, someone shot out a window at his apartment.

[1317] So over the next few weeks, Gabby is so afraid for his life.

[1318] He plans out his funeral with his daughter just in case.

[1319] Jesus.

[1320] So now it's Christmas Eve, and it's been about a month since Morris's death, and DeAnne and her children are just trying to get through their first holiday without him.

[1321] Meanwhile, Gabby's at his apartment alone, And at some point in that night, just as he feared, someone breaks into the apartment and shoots Glenn Gabby Moore to death.

[1322] What?

[1323] So detectives are stunned.

[1324] Yeah.

[1325] The man who they're convinced was involved, if not like, the spearheading Morris's murder, is dead.

[1326] So any information, obviously, he might have been able to share or admit later on or confess to all off the table.

[1327] And Gabby's claims that his life was being threatened.

[1328] now seem credible.

[1329] The detectives must be wondering if up to this point they'd just gotten it all wrong.

[1330] Yeah.

[1331] So as they investigate Gabby's apartment, they're left with more questions than answers because everything seems to be in order.

[1332] There are no signs of a struggle.

[1333] Although the body is found lying face down, it is noticeably not bloody at all.

[1334] Hmm.

[1335] Very little blood.

[1336] So at first, they think Gabby might have had a heart attack.

[1337] It's plausible giving his recent stay in the hospital for blood pressure, but that theory is quickly tossed out when they find a gunshot wound and a small blood stain near Gabby's shoulder.

[1338] So, of course, this adds actually more mystery because it means Gabby was in fact shot, but the location and size of his wound don't seem to be particularly deadly.

[1339] So it doesn't make sense that he was shot dead like through the shoulder.

[1340] Yeah.

[1341] Then they find a 22 caliber of bullet casing near Gabby's body, and that when they run ballistic tests, they eventually determined both Gabby and Morris's gunshot wounds were caused by the same type of bullet.

[1342] Uh -oh.

[1343] So for investigators, this leads them to a new theory, which is that the same man killed both coaches, but they don't know why.

[1344] So for weeks, the detectives work the case.

[1345] They don't get anywhere.

[1346] And then two months after Gabby's death, a couple of local kids are fishing.

[1347] in a Yakima River, and they pull out a rusty Colt 22 pistol from there.

[1348] Oh, my God.

[1349] Were they fishing with magnets?

[1350] I would love to know.

[1351] Either way, they find an old gun.

[1352] They turn it in.

[1353] The police release this information to the public because they figure someone out there knows something, and they'll just hopefully come forward and, like, fill in the gaps.

[1354] And they do.

[1355] A young woman that Anne Rule identifies as Loretta Scott calls in with a tip, and she, tells detectives she's the owner of the gun and she's also the person who tossed it in the river but she's not the killer okay what now yeah yakama was one big question mark at this point sure but loretta does know who the killer is it's her cousin so he borrowed the gun twice once in November and again on christmas eve so when she learns those dates perfectly aligned with both morris's murder and gabby's murder or gabby's death loretta got worried that she was hanging on to a murder weapon so she panicked and chucked it into the river literally Maron's exact words chucked it into the river honey until Loretta tells police her cousin's name is Angelo Pleasant but everyone in town knows him as Tuffy Tuffy.

[1356] That's right his name is Tuffy Pleasant don't fuck around with Tuffy Pleasant Oh you think are you thinking of a little Lassa Opsu when you hear that nope fuck around and then find out He is, the afterwards.

[1357] Yeah, yeah.

[1358] In 1975, Tuffy Pleasant is a 22 -year -old college student from Yakima with an impressive wrestling record, which is how Morris Blankin -Baker was described in his heyday.

[1359] Morris was about 10 years older than Tuffy, and just like Morris, Tuffy's wrestling coach was Gabby Moore.

[1360] Morris Blankenbaker was a great athlete, but Tuffy Pleasant is in a league of his own.

[1361] under Gabby's training Tuffy's on track to be an Olympic level wrestler and he's actually been competing he's competed as far away as Tokyo even after Tuffy began to work with new coaches in college he still idolized Gabby it's same thing of like that's his coach so just as it was with Morris Gabby and Tuffy had a close relationship and Tuffy held the same reverence and adoration for his old coach needless to say Tuffy was there when Gabby went through both his divorces, his dissent into alcoholism, and his depressive spiral.

[1362] And Tuffy will later say, quote, it was Dian this, Dian, that we were so close that what he felt, I felt.

[1363] If he shed a tear, I shed a tear.

[1364] This man, he's just tore up.

[1365] He's not himself.

[1366] He's just bleeding inside.

[1367] He said, if you have a problem, you eliminate it.

[1368] And Morris was his number one problem.

[1369] Oh, no. End quote.

[1370] So Tuffy agreed.

[1371] to kill Morris Blankenbaker for Gabby while Gabby's hospitalized.

[1372] We called it.

[1373] Right?

[1374] We're so smart.

[1375] We're so after eight and a half years of the same fucking story over and over again.

[1376] You can't get anything by us.

[1377] They planned the murder together, these two men, and then Gabby made the phone call to Tuffy from the hospital to set that plan in motion.

[1378] Wow.

[1379] And then months later, to dispel this growing suspicion that Gabby was involved in Morris's death, Gabby went back to Tuffy, with another request one last favor he wants tuffy to shoot him oh so tuffy is an adult man he's got the olympics potentially the olympics ahead of him and yet he's going to risk it all for his old wrestling coach yeah doesn't make a ton of sense although good coaches shape the lives of their athletes forever as anne rule said young impressionable right and clearly tuffy felt indebted to gabby and loved him clearly and Gabby knew that it would be incredibly difficult for Tuffy to say no to him so Tuffy agrees to shoot Gabby in the shoulder and Gabby thinks then he'll have like a mindful a minor although painful injury and mindful and ultimately mindful you really think about what matters so the plan was Tuffy shoots Gabby in the shoulder he then crawls wounded and bleeding down the street to Deanne's sister's house.

[1380] Okay.

[1381] And then that'll get him off the hook for being suspected in Morris's murder.

[1382] And it will also win him sympathy from Deanne's sister and therefore then pulling Deanne back into his life.

[1383] That's stupid.

[1384] Very alcoholic plan.

[1385] Very familiar to me. So on Christmas Eve, Tuffy fires the weapon at Gabby.

[1386] And Gabby is very drunk.

[1387] And the theory is that he kind of like stumbled as the gun went off.

[1388] So the bullet hits slightly lower than as planned.

[1389] And Anne Rule writes, I kind of love this story because it's just like reading you great parts of an Anne Rule.

[1390] Totally.

[1391] That could be a podcast in its own.

[1392] Yeah.

[1393] Quote, probably the wound would not have been fatal except for one peculiarity of a 22.

[1394] It can spiral inside the body if it hits a bone.

[1395] An autopsy would show that this was what happened.

[1396] The bullet had changed course after hitting the fourth rib, and it had penetrated both lungs and heart, resulting in almost instantaneous death.

[1397] Holy shit.

[1398] So Gabby's body wasn't bloody, and first responders thought it was a heart attack because all of the fatal wounds and the bleeding were internal.

[1399] He was just literally torn up inside.

[1400] Oh, my God.

[1401] So in August of 1976, less than three years after this entire saga began with Gabby moving into the Blank and Baker home, Tuffy's found guilty of murdering Morris Blank and Baker and convicted of manslaughter in the murder of Gabby Moore.

[1402] So he still, it's like, even though it was, you didn't mean any of that to happen, you're still going to get manslaughter.

[1403] Oh, by the way, Tuffy is a black man. Okay.

[1404] So that probably has a lot to do with it as well.

[1405] So he winds up getting a life sentence for Morris's murder plus 20 years.

[1406] Wow.

[1407] So as Anne Rule finishes her book, Fever in the Heart, she says, quote, life does go on, even after the most horrendous tragedies, even after so much heartbreak.

[1408] When Gabby Moore fastened his obsessive eye on D .N. Blank and Baker, his hell -bent manipulations ultimately changed the course of many lives.

[1409] Nothing was ever the same again, but people went on following the new paths that loss and green.

[1410] reef cut out for them.

[1411] Oh, Ann, great one.

[1412] Such a good last line.

[1413] In the maximum security prison where Tuffy Pleasant is incarcerated, he eventually learns to sew.

[1414] And in an Los Angeles Times article from the early 90s, he notes that he's part of a program that teaches inmates how to, quote, sew pockets on fleece outerwear, including ski parkas, swimwear, and products sold in department and specialty stores, end quote.

[1415] This job pays a minimum wage to the incarcerated workers.

[1416] and some of that money going to victim restitution.

[1417] And Tuffy is quoted in this article saying, quote, this program has allowed a lot of us guys a chance to give something back, not just to families who have suffered as a result of what we've done, but to our families as well.

[1418] This program has given me patience, end quote.

[1419] Tuffy Pleasant ultimately spends 20 years in prison and then he's paroled.

[1420] What I think is incredible about that quote is that he is taking so much accountability for for his behavior that he was entirely coerced into participating in yeah like but you make the decisions that you make you do for whatever reason but if there is any it's like the people who suffered for what you did because someone told you you had to right played upon like manipulated yes you totally chose to do it but god damn if only everyone could take their back and step back responsibility if only everyone back in Yakima DeAnne eventually moves on from her job at the bank and she becomes a successful stockbroker badass she remarries and she and her new husband leave Yakima for good yeah thank God let's go yes and Anne rule actually meets with Deanne while she's writing a fever in the heart and she says quote I saw that she had changed from the vulnerable, shocked young woman I had watched testify at Tuffy's trial.

[1421] She had clearly become a woman in control of her life, and both of she and Morris's children had grown up to be happy, well -adjusted adults.

[1422] I did not blame Deanne for demuring when I asked about her feelings after the murders of Morris and Gabby.

[1423] Those days were all in the past for her, and whatever regrets she might have had, she chose to keep private, end quote.

[1424] Wow.

[1425] Love and rule.

[1426] And that's the story of the murder of Morris Blankenbaker.

[1427] I had never, ever heard that.

[1428] And I was expecting it to be a cold case for the way you started.

[1429] Oh, really?

[1430] Yeah.

[1431] I tricked you?

[1432] You totally tricked me. Love it.

[1433] That's what we're trying to.

[1434] That's all we're trying to do here, ladies and gentlemen.

[1435] Oh, my God.

[1436] That's so tragedy upon tragedy.

[1437] Those poor kids.

[1438] Those poor kids.

[1439] I truly, that last chunk, I was like, oh, Oh, thank God.

[1440] Oh, thank God.

[1441] Yeah.

[1442] That's the magic van rule.

[1443] Yeah, she's so good.

[1444] She knew the story.

[1445] She knew the story of people actually wanted to hear.

[1446] She knows the details you want to hear.

[1447] Yeah.

[1448] Rippled muscles in the beginning.

[1449] Everyone is going to be okay in the end.

[1450] Thank you.

[1451] Oh.

[1452] Good job.

[1453] Thank you.

[1454] All right.

[1455] Let's end on some, what do we call them?

[1456] Oh, hashtag, what are you even doing right now where you guys tell us what you're even doing right now while you're listening to my favorite.

[1457] at murder.

[1458] We love the idea of just getting a little picture, just a little idea of what the hell's going on out there as we do this in here.

[1459] What kind of listeners do we have?

[1460] This is from Instagram from me underscore butterfly underscore girl.

[1461] And I appreciate this because I've just found my new hobby.

[1462] Oh.

[1463] What are you even doing right now?

[1464] I'm bopping around a field with a horse named Sue checking milkweed for monarch butterfly eggs and caterpillars.

[1465] Raising butterflies was a COVID lockdown escape for me. I didn't think you could fucking do that.

[1466] I didn't either.

[1467] Jesus.

[1468] I could wander a field far from anyone else.

[1469] I feel like this is, she's like Nicole Kidman right now, far from anyone else and find some beauty.

[1470] As of today, I have successfully released nearly 400 monarchs and counting.

[1471] Oh my God.

[1472] Congratulations.

[1473] Cut to the crow that sweeps in and just eats seven of them as that's my fault because I keep feeding the crows in your neighborhood.

[1474] Oh my God.

[1475] God.

[1476] Isn't that beautiful?

[1477] Very important work.

[1478] I've thought about getting a beehive for my backyard, but I could do moths and butterflies instead.

[1479] Do, is there anything that could bite you or sting you more?

[1480] Jesus.

[1481] Okay, here's this one.

[1482] This is from Instagram also, and it's Kiss underscore My underscore Cartier underscore 1021, and it says, I'm on my 35 -minute commute back home and can barely see through the tears in my eyes listening to Karen speak about George dinning.

[1483] His story of black resilience and courage in the face of injustice has touched me deeply.

[1484] Thank you in the entire MFM team for showcasing black stories that are oftentimes forgotten.

[1485] They help propel me forward and show that I stand on the shoulders of greatness.

[1486] Thanks again.

[1487] Oh my God.

[1488] I mean...

[1489] That's beautiful.

[1490] That's...

[1491] It goes perfectly hand in hand with Lisa Michelle who said, what are you even doing right now?

[1492] Overthinking everything I said, yesterday and we'll say today and possibly tomorrow.

[1493] Hey, me too.

[1494] We have the same hobby.

[1495] Oh my God, that's crazy.

[1496] I've been raising that in my backyard this whole time.

[1497] Self doubt.

[1498] Cultivate it.

[1499] It's all kinds of experiences people could be having while they listen to this podcast.

[1500] Why don't you tell us what you're doing?

[1501] Please, we want to know.

[1502] I bet it's something mundane or awesome.

[1503] Either way.

[1504] You contain multitudes.

[1505] You do?

[1506] We do.

[1507] We're here for it.

[1508] That was fun.

[1509] I'm so excited.

[1510] We're back in the studio.

[1511] Me too.

[1512] I need a more comfortable seating though.

[1513] I like, we're a cute dress today.

[1514] We're sitting in chairs and I just like my feet need to be up.

[1515] Up where?

[1516] On a thing, anything.

[1517] Where?

[1518] I don't know.

[1519] Just like you have a dress on.

[1520] I can't sit like a lady for more than an hour.

[1521] This is hard.

[1522] But also.

[1523] Yeah.

[1524] There's not a good.

[1525] Maybe we get like plywood that pushes us forward.

[1526] Yeah.

[1527] Look, we're not Phoebe Judge.

[1528] We can't fucking.

[1529] all be like professionals and shit.

[1530] Yeah.

[1531] Stop asking us too.

[1532] We've been zooming for almost five years.

[1533] And now we're back.

[1534] Missing a lot of cats in here too.

[1535] There's very little animal hair.

[1536] We should bring bags from home and sprinkle it around.

[1537] Done.

[1538] And then, oh, should we roll a tape of Frank Barking?

[1539] Oh, absolutely.

[1540] We need that.

[1541] It's a necessary part of this podcast.

[1542] Oh, and then also stay sexy.

[1543] And don't get murdered.

[1544] Goodbye.

[1545] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[1546] This has been an exactly right production.

[1547] Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

[1548] Our managing producers, Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[1549] Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

[1550] This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachie.

[1551] Our researchers are Marin McClashen and Ali Elkin.

[1552] Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail .com.

[1553] Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at MyFave Murder.

[1554] Goodbye.