Busy Philipps

[0] Welcome everybody to armchair expert.

[1] I'm Dan Rather, and I'm joined by an Emmy nominated miniature mouse.

[2] That's me. Today we have Busy Phillips.

[3] She is an actress, a writer, a producer, and a director.

[4] You know her from freaks and geeks.

[5] Dawson's Creek.

[6] Ooh, almost close.

[7] Dawson's Greeks.

[8] Well, she'll bring up.

[9] White chicks.

[10] Yeah.

[11] Yeah, real feather in her cap.

[12] That's right.

[13] Cougar Town.

[14] And, of course, busy tonight.

[15] You probably follow her on Instagram.

[16] And she also has a book.

[17] This will only hurt.

[18] a little.

[19] I really enjoy talking to her.

[20] Me too.

[21] Yeah.

[22] She's really fun.

[23] She has a real straightforward, confident point of view, and I really got infected by it.

[24] I think you will too.

[25] So please enjoy Busy Phillips.

[26] Wondry Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and add free right now.

[27] Join Wondry Plus in the Wondry app or on Apple Podcasts.

[28] Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts.

[29] He's an armchair.

[30] He's an I'm sure.

[31] So, Busy, welcome to the podcast.

[32] Have you ever heard it?

[33] I would expect you not to it.

[34] No pressure.

[35] Well, no, no, I was going to tell you this is a thing that people really dislike about me. I do not listen to podcasts.

[36] And I don't know why.

[37] And I had my, I did one for a minute with Steve Agee called We're No Doctors.

[38] Okay.

[39] Yeah.

[40] I love Aegee.

[41] I didn't know we had a mutual friend in him.

[42] Oh, my gosh.

[43] So A .G. and I had a podcast together.

[44] He still does it called We're No Doctors.

[45] And I'll, like, jump in every once in a while and co -host with him.

[46] But I guess for me, I'm really, I really enjoy my car time.

[47] I'm like a 90s teenager still.

[48] Okay.

[49] You're listening to.

[50] I'm listening to my music.

[51] I'm rolling calls.

[52] I like to talk to people on the phone, like a 90s teenager.

[53] So I'm calling friends from high school.

[54] I'm calling my parents.

[55] Oh, you're like.

[56] Oh, great.

[57] I roll calls and I listen to music.

[58] Did you have great telephone game in junior high?

[59] Like, when you liked a boy.

[60] and you got his number.

[61] Did you, were you great at conversing?

[62] Yes.

[63] We had our own line.

[64] Okay, great.

[65] That's a big deal.

[66] A big, very huge deal.

[67] Yeah.

[68] I think I still, wait, do I still remember the phone number?

[69] I remember mine.

[70] Most of my passwords incorporate my junior high phone number.

[71] Wow.

[72] Two four eight six eight four.

[73] Wow.

[74] Wow.

[75] And I think I remember Aaron Weekly's phone number probably too.

[76] I remember Emily Beebe, my childhood best friend's.

[77] phone number still by heart, but I can't say it because it's still her mom's phone number.

[78] Her mom still lives there.

[79] Right.

[80] You might have to, in fact, you might have to bleep out a couple of the digits for the one I just gave.

[81] Who's phone number would that still be?

[82] Well, presumably someone got that phone number.

[83] And if people call and say, can I talk to seventh grade Dax?

[84] They're going to be disappointed.

[85] Well, everyone involved will be disappointed, I think.

[86] I mean, it could be a whole thing.

[87] So what age did mom and dad take you out of Illinois and then move you to, you went to Scottsdale?

[88] Five, yeah, yeah.

[89] Five, going into first grade, like five.

[90] I'm young for my grade, as they used to do.

[91] Now, everybody read shirts because everyone read the same Malcolm Gladwell book.

[92] That's right.

[93] So everyone could be in the NHL.

[94] Yeah, which is, you know, that's what I'm gunning for with both my girls.

[95] So I was going into first grade.

[96] We moved to Scottsdale, Arizona.

[97] Which, what I know about Scottsdale's, I used to go there often to work when I worked for General Motors.

[98] And it's a very ritzy suburb of Phoenix.

[99] Yes.

[100] And we would stay at the beautiful hotel that Frank Lloyd Wright student is.

[101] the Biltmore in Scottsdale.

[102] And I thought it was Eden.

[103] When I went there when I was younger, yeah.

[104] Did you like it there?

[105] No, it was really boring.

[106] Okay, great.

[107] Perfect.

[108] And it was just really suburban.

[109] It was like mostly, it was like a very suburban upbringing.

[110] I always felt sort of other than.

[111] You know, also I think, obviously there's like a large contingent of conservative people that live there and are raising their children.

[112] Well, generally anywhere with money, you're going to find some conservative, fiscal conservatives, let's say.

[113] Yes.

[114] Yeah.

[115] And it was just, I think I was just sort of bored and I was like ready for the next thing, like the next chapter of my life.

[116] I was always like looking forward to where I was going to go.

[117] Now, quick quash, did you ever eat at Flaky Jakes across the street from Red Devil Stadium across from ASU?

[118] No. There was a strip mall across the street and it had Flaky Jakes and it was basically predated Fuddruckers, but they had a humongous two large bars of toppings.

[119] It was beautiful.

[120] I loved Fuddruckers so much.

[121] Oh, yeah.

[122] We also, like, majorly had Fuddruckers and Houston's.

[123] Oh, Houston's is our number one.

[124] And Houston's was right across from the Biltmore when you stayed there.

[125] I don't know if you know that.

[126] I wasn't hip yet to Houston.

[127] Nor did I afford to eat there yet.

[128] Sure.

[129] Yes.

[130] Well, that was like when we had, like, birthday, a special occasions, a graduation.

[131] My parents, we would get a table at Houston.

[132] So what did mom and dad do?

[133] that they left Illinois and went to Scottsdale.

[134] At the time, my mom didn't work.

[135] She was taking care of my older sister and me. My father is, or was, he's retired.

[136] It was a nuclear engineer.

[137] He was?

[138] Yeah.

[139] So he has a degree in nuclear physics or something?

[140] I have no idea, but yeah.

[141] Okay, perfect.

[142] But I would imagine he went to Purdue.

[143] He's a bright person.

[144] Yes.

[145] He is.

[146] And what kind of dreams did he have for you and your sister?

[147] I don't know if that was of his generation to think about those things.

[148] It wasn't on his radar.

[149] I don't think it was, yeah.

[150] He thought you might.

[151] wed well and that would be that?

[152] I don't think that was even particularly on his radar.

[153] I think he was just like trying to move through life.

[154] My mom had wanted to be an actress.

[155] What a surprise.

[156] And had been accepted to a theater school circle in the square theater school in New York City when she was leaving high school and her parents didn't want her to leave Chicago.

[157] And so she did not and then did not become a professional actress.

[158] And did she put on you and your sisters?

[159] Yeah.

[160] I think my mom was yeah.

[161] Like she was definitely I guess people would think of her as like a stage mom.

[162] You know, she really was encouraging of us to do theater and after school.

[163] But we really loved it too because like I'm sure you see with your kids, I see with my kids, like there are certain things that are just inherent.

[164] But you see it.

[165] Like they, from a very young age, they were like very performative.

[166] Like they want to put on shows and do things.

[167] And that's just in their little bodies.

[168] Yes.

[169] And brains.

[170] I would say that our two children have inherited a flair for.

[171] performance.

[172] And the kinds do kind of mirror my wife and I, I think, to some, you know, some high percentage, like the oldest one seems to be more what Kristen does.

[173] And then the littler one seems to be what I do.

[174] So that's fascinating to us.

[175] My older one is definitely mirrors my husband.

[176] And then the little one is like, I'm raising myself.

[177] It's real trippy.

[178] Like crazy.

[179] Yes.

[180] Yes.

[181] And so, yes, to that point, I wonder.

[182] So I, I've never met a power struggle.

[183] I wasn't.

[184] up for bring it on i'll do it till we're both dead that's my nature and my four -year -old is that way as well and i actually had to go back in time and go oh how did i deal with people who who were ready to go to the end with me right and i just wrote them off like i wrote my dad off i have a capacity to write people off and i was like oh i can't do this right or she will write me off like i can see in her she's like me and i have got to change everything have you had any kind of like kind of breakthrough like you go Well, shit, how would I respond to this?

[185] Yeah.

[186] I mean, for me, my older daughter is a little bit older, I think, than your oldest.

[187] And for me, the struggle has evolved with all of it.

[188] But I have a hard time not taking it personally.

[189] Oh, yes.

[190] And not relating to my kids like friends that are hurting my feelings.

[191] You know what I mean?

[192] And like, I have to remind myself constantly that I am a. a parent, not their friend, and you're not acting maliciously.

[193] They're acting because they're figuring things out and testing boundaries.

[194] And my job is to, like, remain as sort of neutral as I sort of can emotionally so that I can show them the boundaries and appropriate ways to be in, like, how to live and how to be a person.

[195] And I think that's really complicated, too, if you're someone like me who feels like I still don't quite know how to be a person.

[196] So how am I supposed to help these people figure out how to be a person?

[197] And, like, we're all, like, struggling.

[198] Do you feel a little codependent with people?

[199] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[200] Yeah, I think for sure.

[201] But I'm also, like, I'm, I was talking about this in therapy.

[202] Like, I think people are either raised this way or just, it's inherent.

[203] They're, like, an individualist.

[204] And they are able to sort of take care of themselves and make things make sense for their world.

[205] And they expect that others are, like, behaving the same way.

[206] And so when someone, you know, it's like, I'm so hurt by you because X, Y, and Z. and then the individualist is like, you never told me that.

[207] I expect you to tell me that because if I were feeling that way, I would tell you that.

[208] Right, right, right, right.

[209] I'm not an individualist.

[210] I am, like, I guess, like a communalist or something, you know, where I want to take care of other people's needs.

[211] And I expect that other people will see my needs and take care of them as well.

[212] Right.

[213] And that's rife for conflict in relationships and parenting.

[214] Especially if you marry or partner or give birth to an individualist.

[215] Yes.

[216] Like, you know?

[217] I totally agree.

[218] And what's interesting, but you're the second born.

[219] Yeah.

[220] So what I would expect you to have is your, is your sister even more so a communalist people pleaser?

[221] That's interesting.

[222] Yeah, I think somewhat.

[223] Because here's my observation.

[224] I wanted this maps onto your children at all, which is my, our younger daughter, she could give a fuck if you're mad at her or if there's a consequence.

[225] And I was like, this is crazy.

[226] She must innately just be this way.

[227] But then I realized, no, no, from the second she arrived in our house, she got rejected by her older sister all day long every day.

[228] It's the nature of siblings.

[229] Right.

[230] You know, she can't be bothered.

[231] How close are they?

[232] They're close, two years.

[233] Okay.

[234] Less than two years.

[235] My kids are five full years apart.

[236] Uh -huh.

[237] That didn't happen.

[238] There's no rejection.

[239] My older daughter thought it was her baby.

[240] But really, even how about like at three and eight?

[241] She doesn't feel put out that she wants to come along and, oh, okay, interesting.

[242] No, the baby was like the baby, and we all loved the baby.

[243] Okay.

[244] Yeah, this is like a different dynamic.

[245] Right.

[246] The baby is like very sensitive.

[247] Okay, all right.

[248] Bertie, my older daughter, could give a fuck.

[249] Oh, okay.

[250] Consequences are getting into.

[251] There's nothing, we always say disciplining Bertie is impossible because there's nothing you could take away.

[252] There's nothing you could say to her.

[253] In that moment, whatever it is that she wants or whatever she's, whatever's happening, she'll be like, all right, so what?

[254] So take it all away.

[255] I don't care.

[256] Yeah.

[257] Yeah.

[258] I don't care.

[259] You can't hurt me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[260] Okay, so ours is flipped.

[261] Yeah, ours is flipped.

[262] And I thought it was just because she was so used to being rejected.

[263] That being rejected by me doesn't bother her either or her mom.

[264] She's like, oh, yeah, the main person I want affection from is my older sister.

[265] And it's intermittent.

[266] And I've learned to live through the, you know, the lean times.

[267] But maybe that's like healthy.

[268] Maybe that's a healthy thing to set up, don't you think?

[269] What are you?

[270] I'm like, what are you?

[271] What do you have?

[272] I'm first born.

[273] But I'm the same way you are.

[274] I am not an individual.

[275] We just got in a sort of a heated.

[276] A fight, we'll say it, last week about this exact same dynamic because he wants me to say out loud and I like kind of expect some understanding based on just knowing me. You know that I'm feeling this way.

[277] So why do you need me to say that out loud?

[278] Right.

[279] So we, yeah, we just went through.

[280] And my answer is just in general, I'm not a clairvoyant.

[281] I wish I was, but I don't know people's needs until they tell them to me. I mean, I have obviously some awareness of people's needs, but I'm not sure why someone's mad unless they tell me why they're mad.

[282] And particularly my brain, I am very compulsive and I obsess.

[283] So if you're mad and you don't tell me, I think of 1 ,100 options.

[284] And I start making up crazy things you can be mad at me about.

[285] And I'm convinced that that's what the thing is.

[286] And so for me, I'm just better off like, if you're mad at me, you can tell me. Otherwise, I'm not thinking about it because if I think about it, it's going to go somewhere.

[287] It's a big, big spiral and I'm never right about what it is.

[288] Right.

[289] Right.

[290] Well, yeah.

[291] It's complicated.

[292] We got to work through it.

[293] Well, if there's a will and you love someone, you work through it.

[294] You just keep talking it out and figuring out.

[295] You inch towards it.

[296] Now, you've been married for 12 years.

[297] Is that right?

[298] I think so, 2007.

[299] I never know.

[300] I never know the amount of time.

[301] Yeah, we don't either.

[302] Her mother calls us and says happy and a friend.

[303] and then we're both like scrambling.

[304] Oh, oh, yeah, right.

[305] My mom always sends us flowers.

[306] Oh, yeah, same thing.

[307] Now, what type of personality does Mark have?

[308] Are you guys similar or are you opposites?

[309] Oh, no, we're not similar.

[310] Mark is, hmm, you've met Mark.

[311] I must have.

[312] Do you remember, we were at a wedding together in North Carolina.

[313] Do you remember this?

[314] Oh, my God, you were at the, oh, that makes sense.

[315] Yes.

[316] Okay, but do you remember what was on my hands at all?

[317] What happened?

[318] You just with a baby and Krista, she couldn't come.

[319] Yes, me and Lincoln went to that wedding.

[320] And she was little.

[321] She was, yes.

[322] She was two and a half or three, right?

[323] So the mom from way back in L .A. said she has to wear this dress to the wedding.

[324] And I don't give a fuck what she wears to the wedding, right?

[325] Just be at the wedding.

[326] So we get into a fight at the embassy suites in Charlotte, North Carolina.

[327] You and Lincoln.

[328] Lincoln and I. And she's not going to put this dress on.

[329] And I'm like, well, we're not going until you put the dress on because mom said you have to wear the dress.

[330] So now we're in a standoff.

[331] And eventually we put the dress on and we arrived right as the whole thing was done.

[332] I don't know if you recall.

[333] We walked in right as Jen and Seth were walking away from the altar, although it was kind of a good hat because it looked like we had been there forever because they would have been looking forward the whole time naturally.

[334] I swear to God, I thought you guys were there the whole time.

[335] Don't worry about that.

[336] We literally arrived as they were walking away from the altar.

[337] And I was like, okay, well, miss that.

[338] then we go over to the reception and a couple things a she's just getting to the age where she's starting to realize people talk to me in anordinate amount of time and we're on our trip we've come she doesn't want to go to a wedding she wants to see fireflies and go into the river whatever a lot of people are talking to me she starts getting uncomfortable it's the south which i adore it they grab kids cheeks they say look at this yeah they do a whole thing she just wasn't used to it i found after about 15 minutes of that reception this is torture for her she hates it i go let's go out on the walk and get a little air, went out inside a walk, get a little air.

[339] Six or seven strangers stop and talk to me, and she's now getting more and more man. I'm like, it's time for us to get out of here.

[340] We went to a park.

[341] We found fireflies.

[342] It was great.

[343] So you were like single dadding it with a two -year -old who was not having it.

[344] Between the dress having to be worn and then the, yeah.

[345] The dress having to be worn.

[346] Mark and are the same in that respect.

[347] Like I go wear what you want.

[348] I'm like, I would prefer it if you wore that really nice, cute dress that I bought for you for this occasion, but if, like, you're wearing the unicorn wensie, this is where we're at.

[349] And, like, I'm all right with that.

[350] Yeah.

[351] It'd be one thing if I dressed appropriately everywhere, but it's not like either of us put on the fucking writs to go anywhere.

[352] So I'm like, I don't even know what we're handing down to her.

[353] We don't practice this in any way.

[354] Okay, so you were at that wedding.

[355] Yay.

[356] I don't remember meeting anyone, really.

[357] But my memory of meeting you was, I would say, equally disastrous.

[358] And I'll take full responsibility for it.

[359] So what I think is the first time I met you was at a baby -to -baby event.

[360] Oh, my gosh.

[361] Yeah, okay.

[362] Oh, I know.

[363] I know exactly.

[364] And I met you.

[365] And I was like, we've met 5 ,000 times.

[366] And worse than that, I said, do you, oh, God, I don't even know how to say it exactly how I said it.

[367] I'm sure it was worse when I said it.

[368] But I was like, don't people ask you if we dated?

[369] Do you remember this part of it?

[370] Vigely.

[371] Because I got very confused with the Phillips's.

[372] The Biju Phillips.

[373] Yes.

[374] So Biju Phillips.

[375] One of her sisters, I was at a poker game with 10 years ago, and I was seated next to her.

[376] And I have since been like on Howard Stern and they say you dated so -and -so Phillips, which I didn't.

[377] I sat next to her one time at a poker game.

[378] Which Phillips?

[379] I don't know.

[380] I tried to figure this all out before you got here.

[381] Before I got here.

[382] I'm going to get this.

[383] Yes.

[384] I still don't have it straight.

[385] But I got confused.

[386] I thought you were the person that people have asked me if I've dated.

[387] Right.

[388] And then I assumed you've been asked if we dated since I've been asked if we did it.

[389] No. Yes.

[390] And it was a very weird opening.

[391] What a weird, weird, weird thing to ask them.

[392] But had it been the right person, it would have been immediately bonding.

[393] Like, I know.

[394] We just sat at a poker game next to each other.

[395] And now I've answered this question 20 times.

[396] Like, it had the potential of being a very good bonding moment, of course.

[397] Had I had the right person.

[398] And instead, I was like, no, Dax, but I have met you like 5 ,000 times.

[399] And I'm the, what, you have facial blindness for me. I'm like the one person.

[400] and you never remember.

[401] So that would have been really triggering.

[402] I remember meeting you.

[403] We met in an audition like a really, really long time ago.

[404] You and me and Danny Masterson were sitting in a room for a long time.

[405] But you and I had met before at an audition or we had like read together for something.

[406] Wait.

[407] Seriously.

[408] I don't know.

[409] A really long time ago.

[410] I mean, this is like early, early days.

[411] early dates.

[412] Dax, I've been around a million.

[413] No, I know, much longer than me. I'm trying to imagine what that was.

[414] Mid early 2000s.

[415] I don't know.

[416] I don't know what it was.

[417] But then there was the other audition that we had met at.

[418] And then I'm good friends with a bunch of the parenthood people.

[419] Let me just say this.

[420] Every context you just listed are my worst context.

[421] A wedding, many auditions, fucking event that I'm wearing a tuxedo at.

[422] So first, I apologize.

[423] Second, so I own it.

[424] I apologize.

[425] Secondly, I do hope that we're just at a restaurant and we eat together because then, yes, because all those things I can imagine, yeah, that I didn't remember that I was in that audition and thinking, oh, Danny and I are reading for the same role.

[426] That's an interesting thing where what does all this mean?

[427] And I was obsessed.

[428] In your head.

[429] Yes.

[430] I'm weirdly the opposite.

[431] Like when during auditions, like I would much rather like have a conversation and with people I'm auditioning against or you guys were the only ones that were there.

[432] that soothes me as to like talk to people and ask them questions and get out of my head about whatever it is that I'm about to try to go do and get, you know what I mean?

[433] Like to unfocus is my focusing.

[434] It's a great.

[435] And you're in your head focusing so you can't focus.

[436] Well, even I'll go a step further.

[437] I'm trying to hear what's happening in that fucking room.

[438] The last thing I want to do is walk in there and do the exact same thing that this person just did.

[439] Oh, wow.

[440] Yeah.

[441] I mean, within the latitude of what I can do.

[442] But if I hear someone making the exact same choices I was about to make, I'll ditch that.

[443] Yeah.

[444] I really like audition.

[445] Do you like audition?

[446] You don't like it.

[447] I used to hate it, the period you're talking about, couldn't stand it, so scared.

[448] And now I don't mind it at all.

[449] Yeah, I really don't mind it.

[450] It's so weird.

[451] I could do, like, the first half of my career is kind of doing characters.

[452] And then I learned to be me on Parenthood or actually in a movie The Freebie.

[453] Once I learned to be me, now I don't care.

[454] Because now we just go do what I can do.

[455] And I'm not worried about it.

[456] No, I just find my voice and I do.

[457] and you think I'm right forward or not?

[458] And I don't overthink it.

[459] A hundred and billion percent.

[460] That is like the secret.

[461] I have a, I have like a superstition thing where, you know, for those of you listening at home who are not in Hollywood, they give you like the scenes that you're auditioning with.

[462] They're called sides.

[463] And they're just the two scenes in the movie or three scenes in the TV show or whatever that they want you to read.

[464] And so you bring them in, even if I'm not really using them, I always hold them.

[465] Yes.

[466] That got to explain to me. by somebody, which was helpful.

[467] Oh, really?

[468] Yes, because there's a psychological thing for the people observing it, that if you're still holding the material, you think to yourself, oh, wow, that's them not even off books.

[469] So there's still another, there's another bracket higher.

[470] Yeah, that's not a finished product.

[471] Right.

[472] But if I come in there with no sides, I'm like, this is it, y 'all.

[473] Right.

[474] This is me on take nine.

[475] Exactly.

[476] So even if you know it, you might hold them to the sandbag.

[477] You always hold them.

[478] Always hold them.

[479] And then, but then as soon as I leave the audition, no matter what my whole, whole career, I throw them immediately in the trash.

[480] Fred Savage was just saying the exact same thing.

[481] He does.

[482] That same thing.

[483] Yeah.

[484] And tell me why you do it.

[485] Because I mentally have to just like let it go.

[486] And I feel like carmically, that's really a good thing for me to do that I've, I did it.

[487] I throw, I'm throwing it away and I'm leaving it there.

[488] And if they call me again and they want me to come back or if I've gotten the part, like, that's its own new journey.

[489] Yeah.

[490] Yeah.

[491] That's exactly why he does it.

[492] I think it's very.

[493] very healthy.

[494] It's like your job just ended.

[495] Yeah.

[496] Your job's not like willing it to go your way post -audition.

[497] And I can't control anything that's happening in that room.

[498] No. Before or after me. No. The only thing I can control it.

[499] I mean, I'll still leave a tape recorder behind hidden so I can find out what they said.

[500] What did that?

[501] Wait.

[502] Wait.

[503] Did you see that Tiffany Haddish said she did that?

[504] No. No. Oh my gosh.

[505] There was some roundtable for award season, but I don't know.

[506] You guys, I don't know.

[507] I don't know where I get my information.

[508] It's either like, you know, like a trash, website or it's like the New York Times or it's Twitter or a friend told me and it's not even real.

[509] I don't know, no, but I think it was one of those Hollywood roundtable women things and she told a story about leaving a tape recorder behind in an audition room so she could hear.

[510] Mm. Mm. Mm. What people are saying.

[511] Wow.

[512] Was it positive or negative?

[513] Like, it wasn't great.

[514] Okay.

[515] I guess you wouldn't tell the story if it was.

[516] I don't know if it was like her phone or like, you know, something on and then came back, waited 10 minutes and then came back and got it.

[517] Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

[518] I think I love my phone.

[519] Oh.

[520] You have to look it up.

[521] It's pretty crazy because you just wanted to hear what people were saying.

[522] Yes.

[523] That's an interesting tactic.

[524] There's two ways to look at it.

[525] One is, hey, no one's giving me constructive criticism.

[526] I feel like every time I'm in these rooms, they're not actually telling me what I need to do and I need to figure out so I can get better.

[527] That's one.

[528] That's a very generous version of it.

[529] A less generous version is like, I think this whole thing.

[530] town's conspiring against me, and I'm going to get some audio proof of that.

[531] Right.

[532] The more you think about what other people are thinking about you, I just think isn't generally the road to peace and happiness.

[533] That's what I was going to say.

[534] Like, for me, that's not, I understand I'm not everyone's cup of tea.

[535] That is totally okay with me at this point.

[536] And I do think that early on in my career, I wanted to try to figure out a way to think, to be all things to all people.

[537] And that's that exact thing that you were just saying, which is that the real trick and like when people's careers actually click into focus is when they figure out the thing of themselves that is they are the only people that can do that they're one unique offering yes yes and when you figure that out and you sort of unlock that that's when people are able to really find I think success in the entertainment industry but all things all things probably life yeah yeah like all things yeah I think it's important I don't want to know what people are saying about me. All right, we're going to jump backwards now because you said, mom, you loosely used the word stage mom, but then correct, she wasn't a stage mom.

[538] But I'm assuming from that statement that you were, as a kid, you did some acting.

[539] Like, did you audition for commercials and stuff in Arizona?

[540] We did, I was allowed to do theater, you know, like in school plays, obviously.

[541] And then I did like a little after school theater program thing in Scottsdale.

[542] and I did have some friends that had agents in L .A., so I knew what it was, and I really wanted one.

[543] Can you tell me what percentage of this drive was yours and which was your mom's, if you could put a number on either side?

[544] But isn't it so hard?

[545] I don't know, because when you're a kid, you just, you can't.

[546] It's hard to, I don't know, wade through all of that stuff.

[547] My daughter rides dirt bikes, and, I mean, one would have to guess it's 90 % for me. I guess 99.

[548] I mean, I had a lisp when I was little.

[549] I had a speech impediment.

[550] It wasn't just my S's.

[551] It was also my T .Hs and my R's and my R's and my L's.

[552] I remember I had this jar.

[553] I had a speech therapist and when I would get them right, they would put money in the, you know, like I got like a penny for something and then nickel and a dime.

[554] And my mom had, do you remember that thing in the 80s where people would use paint pens?

[555] and, like, write on leucite things.

[556] Is this not track for you?

[557] It's triggering me. Okay.

[558] You know what I mean?

[559] Kind of.

[560] You're too young.

[561] How old are you?

[562] 32.

[563] You're too young.

[564] Get out of here.

[565] Bless your heart.

[566] No, but it was like a real moment.

[567] Like, these personalization stores were really big in malls.

[568] And they had, like, a bunch of leucite stuff.

[569] Like, Lusite jewelry box, a little gumball machine.

[570] That was, like, the big one.

[571] I can totally see it.

[572] And I see.

[573] It's like the bubble.

[574] Yes, I see in cursive pink marker pen.

[575] And so I had one that my mom got made for me that had like a TH on it, an R and S. Wow.

[576] Yeah, that was my little bank when I would get them correctly.

[577] So kind of initially, she really encouraged me to participate in the talent show at school and do the school plays because she wanted me to work on my speech impediment.

[578] Right.

[579] Overcom it.

[580] Yeah.

[581] It wasn't anything that I ever.

[582] felt bad about or ostracized.

[583] Right.

[584] People weren't teasing you at school.

[585] No, I just was a little, I kind of talked like Cindy Brady.

[586] Oh, sure.

[587] Sure.

[588] So that was like kind of, I think, the initial thing.

[589] And then in third grade, they would hold little class auditions and I auditioned and got the lead in the third grade school play.

[590] And then same in fourth grade.

[591] And then that like becomes your thing, right?

[592] Sure.

[593] You're like, oh, I'm good at this thing.

[594] You're getting confidence.

[595] I like it.

[596] I want to do more of it.

[597] And then also I did.

[598] I had a little friend, a girl who had had an agent in L .A. and would fly out here for auditions for real things for movies and TV shows.

[599] And, you know, and that was appealing to me because I watched a ton of television and movies.

[600] Right.

[601] I loved, like, Three's Company.

[602] Saved by the Bell.

[603] Loved Saved by the Bell.

[604] Me too.

[605] Big fan.

[606] Yeah.

[607] 9201010

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