305 - You Heard It Here Last

[0] This is exactly right.

[1] Hello.

[2] And welcome.

[3] It's my favorite murder.

[4] That is Georgia Hardstock.

[5] Thank you.

[6] That's Karen Kilgariff, drinking something out of a cocktail shaker.

[7] Out of a Laganitas silver pint glass.

[8] Puter puter pint glass.

[9] Is that some kind of coffee concoction?

[10] This is some nice PG -Tips tea.

[11] Ooh.

[12] But it's in a cup that keeps your hot stuff.

[13] up hot and you're cool, sep, cool.

[14] Insulated.

[15] Doing it.

[16] Where, you know, the citizens of Petaluma and those historically associated with Petaluma are very proud of our Loganitas brewery.

[17] Oh, are you guys Loganitas?

[18] Yeah.

[19] Yeah.

[20] Hi.

[21] Hey, I've known you six fucking years.

[22] Get to know me. You know I represent Loganitas brewery.

[23] It is a great beer, I will say.

[24] It brought IPA to the masses.

[25] Hmm.

[26] That is what Petaluma, IPA and eggs.

[27] That's what we're all about.

[28] It got everyone drunk and gave them a lot of protein.

[29] That's what that's their promise to you.

[30] That's our promise.

[31] We were like, hey, give eggs a break.

[32] Do you remember the give eggs a break?

[33] Because there was a rumor or like a thing in the 80s and right?

[34] That those like eggs are bad for you.

[35] There's too much cholesterol and they're like eggs.

[36] Wasn't there one where like eggs were behind bars?

[37] And then they got.

[38] They were in fucking jail.

[39] Eggs were in jail.

[40] They just were eggs with legs.

[41] Yes.

[42] And they were like, give eggs a break.

[43] And it's like, they're out of prison now.

[44] They were released from jail.

[45] It was so, it wasn't great.

[46] It was pretty stupid.

[47] But that was back when, you know, it was the same around the same time when they were like, everything needs to be fat -free.

[48] Diet.

[49] Yes.

[50] And then they would start saying things like gummy worms are fat -free.

[51] But it's like, right.

[52] that's not the they would start putting it on things so everything was kind of suffering nutritionally from like you couldn't have fat anything you couldn't have any cholesterol whatever but then it was also like recently with like it's gluten free and it's like well it's milk so you don't actually is gluten is milk right you don't need to put it on the fucking container but like water had a gluten free fucking it doesn't come into play but but but it's almost like people are now declaring Whereas I think in the 80s people were doing it like they would be like this soda is fat free or whatever, but it's still, that doesn't make it a diet thing.

[53] Well, that was like, that was one that was like, eat grapefruit for every meal and you'll be skinny and that means you'll be happy.

[54] Goodbye from the National Nutrition Society.

[55] From the National Grapefruit Board.

[56] There's always been a lot of, I'm just sick of big grapefruit.

[57] trying to tell my body how to feel how many grapefruits it needs like I know like my body will tell me how many great fruits I need seven seven daily always including the peel and the pith and the spoon I eat the grapefruit spoon I eat the grapefruit spoon goes down hard but it's so good for you it's so good for your spirit well now we're going to get people the pizza cutter people telling us that we need grapefruit spoons oh dude we have we have If emotions are running high this winter season, let me just say, if it wasn't the pizza cutter overreactors, we had a couple long distance runners who are like, we love carbs, fuck you.

[58] And it was just like, all righty, it sounds like everything's going good.

[59] Yeah, everyone's great.

[60] Great.

[61] Make a little joke out of the side of my mouth about an extreme marathoner who's running like two marathons a day.

[62] Okay.

[63] Yeah.

[64] And they're not talking about what you were talking about, which is twice baked potatoes.

[65] That's not what they're snacking on before they're race.

[66] I remember when I was like, you know, 12 and in the like, the like soccer on the soccer team.

[67] And we had like three games in a Sunday because it was playoffs.

[68] And we were like, we're going to go home and eat a bowl of pasta.

[69] And that's how we're going to like carve up.

[70] But it's like, no, no, no, no, no. They don't want you to carboload on fucking cacao pepe, motherfucking spaghetti.

[71] Not day of also.

[72] No. Isn't the pre, isn't the carving up?

[73] Isn't that supposed to take place a little bit before you?

[74] Not like, and then you run out and play a game.

[75] I didn't know that.

[76] And we won, though, I think.

[77] Oh.

[78] I punched a girl that day.

[79] So maybe it worked.

[80] It depends on what the goal was.

[81] The goal was she had made fun of me the entire season and we had beat them and we were doing the good game high five.

[82] Uh -huh.

[83] And she moved her hand to like not high -five me, good game.

[84] And I was like below a self -esteem, saddest person of the world.

[85] little Georgia and I fucking socked her in the arm so hard it was worth it how's your self -esteem better after that and she apologized bullshit I swear to God it was the time of my life and she apologized she was a popular girl and she was like being really many and she apologized to me for being a cunt that whole time later so I was right later how many years later later that day no no in high school yeah she never made him funny again then violence is the answer says Georgia hard stark just punch people when you're upset and when you've had too much pasta that's the lesson bullying was okay you know what I mean that's when it was celebrated that's right that was how that was the only way you're going to get anything solved oh my god you want respect don't like out with them punch them in the fucking arm well and certainly don't turn the other cheek no no or you'll get punched in it that's a that's your that's a great holiday message thank you I'm doing Game of Thrones a little bit.

[86] I think by the end of the holiday break, I'll have, like, gotten into it and do it.

[87] Gotten into it or gotten through it?

[88] Through, like, another season.

[89] I know that, I know the term red wedding is a thing, right?

[90] Uh -huh.

[91] And I'm getting to a wedding.

[92] So I'm assuming it's going to be red, but that's all I got.

[93] Keep your eye peeled.

[94] Okay.

[95] For some red stuff at the wedding.

[96] Oh, do they have a red velvet cake?

[97] Is that the wedding cake is a red velvet?

[98] Yeah, but everyone gets one little red velvet cupcake on there.

[99] Oh, they have like a cupcake tower.

[100] Yeah.

[101] Teared cupcakes.

[102] Yeah.

[103] That's the only thing you should expect.

[104] Okay.

[105] It's just decor and treats at this wedding.

[106] I'm so excited.

[107] Yeah, you should be.

[108] It's actually perfect for Christmas Day.

[109] You should watch that episode.

[110] Okay.

[111] Here I go.

[112] It really is something to talk about a TV show that was on eight years ago.

[113] It's fun because there's no such thing as spoiler alerts, because if you don't know what I'm talking about, then it's not a spoiler.

[114] You should have watched it six fucking years ago.

[115] Right, exactly.

[116] And also, it's kind of out of context anyway.

[117] So the odds are, I feel like these days, the amount of shows and bands and songs and memes that people have to keep up with, the worry of spoiler alerts is like, right, but will you be able to be able to.

[118] to keep this in your head anyway.

[119] Probably not.

[120] Yeah.

[121] My favorite murder.

[122] Spoiling shit that you don't need to worry about.

[123] Yeah, we're not spoiling anything.

[124] You know, we're bringing up things like you didn't know you had a passion for your pizza cutter until you listened to this podcast.

[125] You didn't know how much you cared about frozen pizza.

[126] Oh, my God.

[127] The level of defending frozen pizza when clearly the point was, We don't give a shit about it.

[128] I mean, George is like, I love it.

[129] Proudly, proudly loves her stove first French bread pizza.

[130] I'm obsessed, but I'm not going to go down on a fucking, in a flame of not using just a knife.

[131] It's a knife.

[132] Yeah, you just get a knife.

[133] Yeah.

[134] It's a specialty like your grapefruit spoons.

[135] It's a specialty item to go out and spend an extra 15 to 20 bucks on a pizza cutter.

[136] Yeah.

[137] Yeah.

[138] We just had no idea.

[139] You heard it here last is, I think, to the point.

[140] We guarantee you'll hear it here last.

[141] Oh, yeah.

[142] What else is going on?

[143] None of it.

[144] None of it.

[145] I'm going to see Metallica this weekend.

[146] Like, otherwise, nothing.

[147] You're so, you're so Metallica.

[148] You're so, you're so me. I'm sorry, I should say Vince is going to Metallica.

[149] I'm going with Vince to Metallica.

[150] And you're excited for the experience of going to Metallica.

[151] Hell yeah.

[152] Who know music and lights and so many fucking people.

[153] Who knows if they're vaccinated?

[154] It's going to be great.

[155] Chances are not.

[156] There's going to be a lot of, I did my own research.

[157] Right.

[158] Here's what I found.

[159] Or I put a fake arm on and got my vaccination into that.

[160] Or here's a fake card that you could buy.

[161] Or you can't tell me what to do, man. You're not my fucking dead.

[162] What's up sheeple?

[163] What's up sheeple?

[164] You've gotten your booster, though, right?

[165] Yeah, how I forgot to ask you, how was your recovery from your booster?

[166] I can't tell because I keep sleeping all the time.

[167] I'm tired of this year so much.

[168] Oh, okay.

[169] There's a lot of like the second I'm done with the thing, I just run to the couch and fall face first on it and don't get back up.

[170] I think if you didn't wake up shaking and shivering in a cold sweat with your hips aching, then you're fine.

[171] Then that's just depression and seasonal depression and anxiety.

[172] It's definitely workaholism.

[173] Oh, yeah.

[174] You have that.

[175] Yeah.

[176] Also getting, waking up too early and not being able to do anything about it.

[177] And then, and Frank wakes up when I wake up.

[178] So we have some special.

[179] hangout time at 5 a .m. Like we're fucking, you know, bakers or something.

[180] Like you're an old couple who live in Miami or whatever.

[181] Yes, exactly.

[182] Where we're just like, honey, let's do, let's make coffee and watch the sunrise.

[183] Me and Frank.

[184] That sweet.

[185] Aw.

[186] It's really irritating.

[187] And then sometimes I'll put on a boring procedural because subtitles always make me go to sleep.

[188] And I'll try to use that to make myself go back to sleep.

[189] But then, and I think we've already talked about this, falling asleep in front of the TV, I then have dreams dictated by the dialogue on the television.

[190] Oh, yeah.

[191] Which is odd when it's foreign in a different language because it's more about the intonation.

[192] Yeah.

[193] And like sometimes there's yelling in the dream and I don't.

[194] I'm not sure what's going on.

[195] And when I wake up, I'm like, oh, yeah, that was that part.

[196] Do you ever understand foreign languages when you're sleeping and you're sleeping and you're, you wake up.

[197] You're like, I know what they were just saying.

[198] This is crazy.

[199] No. Oh, no, me neither.

[200] No. That's not weird.

[201] Oh, like you dreamed that you could understand it.

[202] Yeah.

[203] Or like, do you ever write a song in your dream?

[204] You're like, that was an amazing song.

[205] And yes.

[206] And I've done stand -up in my dreams that I was like, please remember that joke about the penguin.

[207] It was so funny.

[208] And it didn't make sense.

[209] And I've also played like unbelievable classical piano in my dreams.

[210] A concerto.

[211] And like woken up and been like, that is the most disappointing thing.

[212] But isn't it crazy when you're like, that was correct?

[213] Like I was playing those.

[214] But who would know that?

[215] But a classical pianist.

[216] All right.

[217] Okay.

[218] Where's my phone?

[219] Okay.

[220] Okay.

[221] So the last season that just came out of Penn 15.

[222] Oh, yes.

[223] on Hulu.

[224] I cried at the end.

[225] I never fucking cry at shit like that.

[226] But it is like one of, it's like the most beautiful show and accurately portrayed how fucking hard it is to be 13.

[227] Yeah.

[228] And it was like, it was such a magical show.

[229] I highly recommend it.

[230] And then they did an animated version where all their body dysmorphia issues became real.

[231] And then they just walked around with the thing that they hate them most about.

[232] themselves being real and it just made me think about how you just you have a thing you hate about yourself so much and you think everyone's looking at you and being like oh that thing is gross about them but it's just in your head you know yeah yes it takes forever to understand yeah i don't understand it still i mean yeah it's like the way it's that the thing we we talked about it recently it's like the way you interpret the world is your own biased lens yeah and at some point in your life you have to realize you're wrong.

[233] You just have to admit it.

[234] Like, you get it wrong and you're getting it wrong.

[235] And it's because of like, you're justified in the reasons you get it wrong.

[236] But you eventually have to let it go.

[237] But I follow so many people who love that show, Penn 15, and who talk about it.

[238] So I feel like I have like weekly reminders of like, I have to go back and finish.

[239] Because I think I left off near the end of season one.

[240] But then I, whatever happened.

[241] I just didn't get.

[242] it was a little bit too I just really suffered around that age so much that it was just like can't rewatch uh huh yeah no it's definitely like it's definitely got those little triggers like there's like a sexual scene in the last two episodes that reminded me like 13 years old is when I really went off the rails and started fucking living life in a way that 13 year old shouldn't live and there's so there's a couple scenes in that that like definitely remind like oh that's what it was like for me oh I forgot how like inexperienced and young I was like doing meth and like fooling around with older boys it's like oh you know it's these reminders and it's really cringy to watch but it's also like really beautiful their friendship is so lovely and strong and like you forget about those and like how important your friendships are when you're that young you know and how much they mean so I recommend it yeah I'm going to watch it do it what else should we do exactly right corner and get into our stories let's do it okay let's just wrap this year up can we finally well let's see over on an exactly right podcast network we've got season one of wicked words coming to an end this week the first part of a two episode finale came out with journalist Elon Green.

[243] So Elon and Kate are talking about the last call killer who preyed upon gay men in New York in the 80s and 90s.

[244] He was one of the most notorious hero killers.

[245] I actually read this book and recommended it.

[246] Recommended it on the show.

[247] It was really well written and it was really, it's very sinister.

[248] It was like one of those very plain men who was in these bars, very well -lit bars, almost like piano -like fern bars in New York City.

[249] but solely but surely gay men were being murdered and this week is the finale of waiting for impact episode 10 has Dave chatting with another member of sudden impact about the vocal group's journey and what a fucking ride waiting for impact has been so incredible we're so proud to have it on the network yeah Dave Holmes is the king if you've ever read any of his esquire columns he's just such a talented journalist and such a talented host.

[250] Yeah.

[251] He's hosted podcasts for a long time.

[252] So waiting for Impact has really been an amazing job.

[253] He's, it's truly a Dave Holmes passion project.

[254] Mm -hmm.

[255] Also, this podcast will kill you one of the OGs, one of our original acquisition podcasts.

[256] We like them first.

[257] They're back with a new season and their first episode covers the disease typhus.

[258] Oh, I can't wait to hear what they fucking have to say about it.

[259] And this week, our.

[260] Celebrity Hometowns, we are talking to none other than the murderino we all know and love, Phoebe Bridgers.

[261] She talked to us, you guys.

[262] She took time out of her busy touring schedule to talk to us and fuck, she's a dream.

[263] She did a great job.

[264] She has a really great story.

[265] It was really fun to talk to her.

[266] Yeah, listen to that for sure.

[267] She's incredible, definitely.

[268] All right.

[269] Should we get it going?

[270] Yeah, dude.

[271] You're up.

[272] Baby.

[273] Karen, you know I'm all about vintage shopping.

[274] Absolutely.

[275] And when you say vintage, you mean when you physically drive to a store and actually purchase something with cash.

[276] Exactly.

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[289] important note that promo code is all lowercase go to shopify .com slash murder to take your retail business to the next level today that shopify .com slash murder goodbye so today I'm going to talk about the murder of Amanda Milan okay so there was a salon article called The Crying Game by Nina Segal there's an article also by Nina Segal of the New York Times called Watershed of mourning at the border of gender um On the blog spot TransGriot posted by Monica Roberts, there is a post called the Amanda Milan anniversary, the New York County District Attorney's Office, news release, the murder of Amanda Milan Wikipedia page, the New York Times Metro Briefing, which was compiled by Anthony Ramirez, and a New York Post article by Dara Gregorian called BX Man Guilty in Slaying of Transsexual.

[290] And then there's also the New York City Commission on Human Rights, Legal Enforcement, Guidance on Discrimination on the basis of Gender Identity or Expression Local Law 3, 2002, that was looked up.

[291] Okay, so we start on June 20, 2000.

[292] And it's the early morning hours, a couple days before New York City's annual Pride celebration, and 25 -year -old Amanda Milan meets up with some of her friends at the McDonald's at 43rd.

[293] and eighth in New York Times Square.

[294] They're there to get coffee.

[295] It's kind of the middle of the night.

[296] Amanda is a black trans woman who is also a sex worker.

[297] She's just come from a date with a John, and she's meeting her friends at this McDonald's, getting some coffee before she goes home for the night.

[298] She is saving up her money for gender -confirming surgery.

[299] So about 4 a .m., Amanda leaves the McDonald's and her group of friends.

[300] She's heading down to the Port Authority bus terminal to try to get a cab home.

[301] But as she leaves and she's out on the street, Amanda's friends see a man approach her.

[302] 20 -year -old Dwayne McCuller had been hanging around the block for about an hour.

[303] Now he's saying something to Amanda, but her friends can't quite hear him from across the street.

[304] They do know, though, that it can't be good because witnesses will later report that they heard Amanda asked Dwayne, do you want to fight?

[305] With that, Amanda's friends hear Dwayne shout, get you.

[306] your fucking drag queen ass away from me, I know what you have between your legs.

[307] Oh my gosh.

[308] And I'm specifying what he shouted at her, as painful and hurtful as it is, because it's part of the story of this interaction.

[309] So the arguing continues until Dwayne McCuller threatens to punch and then shoot Amanda.

[310] And though Amanda is normally one who would never back down from a fight, the escalating violence in Dwayne's threats causes her to just walk away.

[311] Wow.

[312] And as she does, a 26 -year -old security guard named Eugene Celestine tells Dwayne that he has a knife, and Dwayne responds, give it to me. And Eugene does.

[313] Amanda's friends watch in horror as Dwayne runs down the street after Amanda with the knife.

[314] They all start to scream trying to warn her, but it's too late.

[315] Dwayne stabs Amanda in the neck and runs off.

[316] leaving her to bleed out in front of the Dwayne Reed on 42nd and 8th Avenue.

[317] So just right there on the New York City Street.

[318] And this was the year 2000?

[319] And this is in the year 2000.

[320] Okay.

[321] Oh, my God.

[322] So there's people standing around, you know, there are some onlookers and a young male bystander who's described as possibly Puerto Rican rips off his shirt and ties it around Amanda's neck to try to help stop the bleeding.

[323] Oh, I have chill.

[324] First responders arrive at 4 .20 a .m. They promptly rush Amanda to St. Vincent's Hospital in Chelsea, but at 4 .50 a .m. on June 20, 2000, 25 -year -old Amanda Milan is pronounced dead.

[325] Okay, so we'll talk about her life a little bit.

[326] She was born in 1974, and she grew up in Chicago, Illinois.

[327] Not much is known about her childhood, aside.

[328] from the fact that her, she had early dreams of becoming a fashion designer.

[329] She came out as trans around when she was about 18 and right after she moved to New York City.

[330] A few years after her move to New York, Amanda gets herself an apartment at Central Park West and 103rd Street where she lives with her beloved dog, Ashley.

[331] Amanda is beautiful and hardworking and she works her way up to an elite escort service that sends her traveling all over the world, including Paris, London, Anne Milan to meet with clients.

[332] One friend says Amanda is, quote, often described as a full -figured Beverly Johnson look -alike.

[333] So she was a stunner.

[334] Yeah.

[335] She's also incredibly tough.

[336] Anytime someone tries to harass or insult her, Amanda stands her ground, which is not surprising that's something trans women have to deal with a lot.

[337] And, you know, that's, I think that's, you'd be hard pressed to find a, uh, a, uh, you'd be hard -pressed trans person at all who was in any way cowardly because they're constantly being confronted about who they are as human beings.

[338] So Amanda has two best friends, Kim and Simone.

[339] They're also trans women and they've all been a group of friends.

[340] They've stuck by Amanda's side for about 10 years and they're inseparable.

[341] But in 1998, after a move to Australia, Kim is found dead at the base of a cliff, presumably from a fall or a push.

[342] Fowl play is insinuated but never confirmed.

[343] Six months after that, Simone moves to San Francisco with her boyfriend.

[344] Only one month later after her move, she is thrown out of a fifth story window and killed.

[345] God.

[346] Yeah.

[347] So Amanda is reeling from her friend's sudden and tragic deaths.

[348] She's shaken to her core and she confides in another friend who lives in her building named Patra, who's also a trans woman, that she believes these things, quote, happen in threes and that she might be next.

[349] So at first, the murder of Amanda Milan barely makes the news.

[350] It gets one small mention in the New York Times metro briefing, and in this mention, Amanda is dead named and misgendered.

[351] The message this sends is clear that Amanda's death is just one in a long line of trans people who die by violent, hate -filled meat, But the LGBTQIA plus community around Hell's Kitchen, they say absolutely not.

[352] Hell, yeah.

[353] They're not about to allow Amanda's memory or her legacy to be disrespected this way.

[354] Amanda's friends and chosen family are especially dismayed to see her misrepresented in the wake of her terrifying and violent murder.

[355] Her safety and her life matter to them, and they were going to let their city know it.

[356] So the nearby Metropolitan Community Church on 36th Street starts hosting a support group for LGBTQIA plus folks called gender people where members meet on a weekly basis to find refuge and community with one another.

[357] And it's here in the church's rec room under the guidance of Minister Reverend Presley Sutherland that the queer community who knew and loved Amanda begin to make plans to honor her with a public memorial service.

[358] So with the help of prominent trans activist Sylvia Rivera, who we've talked about on this show, the group organizes a service on July 23rd, 2000, beginning at the Metropolitan Community Church.

[359] Reverend Pat Baumgartner leads the group in a sermon, and then others take the mic to talk not only about the tragedy of Amanda's death, but the negligence shown toward homicides of trans folks in New York City.

[360] These heartfelt speeches are both political and personal.

[361] There's one speech from a friend recalling how Amanda helped keep her from becoming homeless.

[362] So it's a tribute, but it's also, it's a real cry for justice.

[363] Over 300 people attend this memorial, and then the memorial ends with the entire group marching out of the church and 10 blocks to the site where Amanda was murdered.

[364] When the group arrives at 42nd and 8th, they create a makeshift memorial with flowers, poems, and photos of them.

[365] Amanda.

[366] The beautiful and infamous model, Octavia Saint -Laurent, who's known for her appearance in the 1991 documentary Paris as Burning.

[367] Uh -huh.

[368] Legendary child.

[369] Octavia is a friend of Amanda's and one of the people who speaks at the memorial that day.

[370] She attributes the large crowd to Amanda's bold spirit and sense of pride that inspired so many.

[371] In her eulogy, Octavia says, quote, I've been in this community for 30 years and this is the first time I've seen any gathering of this sort for a transgender or a third sexual.

[372] Death will not be the last word for Amanda Milan.

[373] So now that they've got the city's attention, New York's trans and queer activists use this opportunity to push for justice and not just for Amanda, but for every trans person who has ever and might ever face a similar fate.

[374] And this pressure works.

[375] So three arrests are made in the murder of Amanda Malon.

[376] Oh.

[377] Dwayne McCuller, who is indicted for second -degree murder.

[378] Eugene Celestine, who's indicted for criminally negligent homicide, criminal facilitation in the fourth degree, and criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree.

[379] He's the one who gave him the knife.

[380] That's right.

[381] Okay.

[382] The security guard.

[383] Yeah.

[384] And a third man named David Anderson who helped McCuller flee the scene after the attack.

[385] He was indicted for hindering prosecution in the first degree.

[386] Eugene Celestine was arrested the same day as Amanda's murder.

[387] McCuller and Anderson were arrested the day after when police found them hiding in Anderson's hotel room.

[388] So activists pushed to have these charges classified as a biased crime, which would force all three involved to face harsher penalties, sending a message to those who wish to do violence to trans people that their hate crimes won't be tolerated in the state of New York.

[389] Given the slurs, witnesses heard McCuller yell at Amanda before he stabbed her, it's only logical to reclassify.

[390] her murder as a hate crime.

[391] And the framework for reclassifying this crime is already in place.

[392] Because in early July of 2000, New York Governor George Pataki signed a bill that would give a harsher sentence to anyone who commits violence based on one's race, religion, age, or sexual orientation.

[393] But because this bill's wording is a bit vague, it's unclear whether or not prosecutors will include trans people in their interpretation of this bill.

[394] So Amanda Malon's aunt, a woman named Diane Dyer -McKee, who took care of Amanda when she was growing up, did a lot of babysitting and knew her all her life, told the New York Times, quote, it was a hate crime and anyone who's trying to call it anything else is simply wrong.

[395] Yeah.

[396] But police spokesman, Detective John Jim Marino, asserts that the crime stemmed, quote, from a dispute and therefore is, quote, not a bias crime.

[397] So considering the lack of priority cases of murdered trans folks, especially black trans people, it's unsurprising that the police would give Amanda's case such a vague and dismissive categorization as a dispute.

[398] According to the New York City Gay and Lesbian Anti -violence Project, in the eight years between 1992 and there were seven murders of trans people.

[399] All of them went unsolved.

[400] So Amanda Malon's murder charges are never upgraded to biased crimes, but Dwayne McCuller does plead guilty to murder in November of 2002 and is sentenced to 17 and a half years in prison plus five years of supervised release.

[401] David Anderson, who's the guy who helped him escape, goes to trial in 2001 and is found guilty of hindering prosecution.

[402] He's sentenced to one and a half to three years in prison.

[403] And we don't know the outcome of Eugene Celestine's trial.

[404] we just know that it took place in 2003.

[405] The specifics were hard to find.

[406] Yeah.

[407] But because the other two defendants were found guilty for the same crime, it would seem likely that he was also found guilty, but there's just no. Wow, record.

[408] We couldn't find the confirmation.

[409] Huh.

[410] So Amanda Milan's death has a stonewall -like effect galvanizing the queer community to recognize their need to fight for trans rights.

[411] It even prompts Sylvia Rivera to resurrect her 1970 activist collective organization, Star, the street trans activist revolutionaries on January 6, 2001, to aid in the campaign for including a broader definition of gender in the New York City human rights law.

[412] Wow.

[413] Mm -hmm.

[414] So that fight pays off.

[415] In 2002, the New York City Council passes the Transgender Rights Bill, which expands the scope of the gender -based protections guaranteed under the NYC HRL, which I believe is in New York City Human Rights League, and to ensure protection for people whose gender and self -image do not fully accord with the legal sex assigned to them at birth.

[416] As trans activist Melissa Schlertz puts it, quote, Amanda Milan has become not a martyr, but a rallying cry.

[417] The activism around her death showed the world that transgender people belong in the queer community and the message from activists is that there is no difference between matthew shepherd and amanda milan the response to her death tells the non -queer community enough today the violence stops and that is the story of the murder of amanda milan and the hope and love she inspired in life that inspired her community to take action and make some change happen oh my god i'm just like I'm speechless.

[418] It's so crazy that it was the year 2000, that that finally got the attention it deserved, which means before that, everything, as we know, was treated poorly.

[419] I mean, it's just, it's amazing.

[420] Great job.

[421] Well, if you think about it, it's 20 years ago.

[422] 20.

[423] And it's like the beginning of the Internet.

[424] So there were very few voices.

[425] and the voices that dominated were voices that basically minimized and marginalized transgender people always.

[426] Right.

[427] So the idea that, you know, I don't know, the idea that this is a, this group of people has gotten the support and the backing that they have gotten over the years, it's just like it's a really important.

[428] important fight and the fact that they're that it comes into the news as this kind of like a trending topic right as opposed to the individual people where these attitudes towards like the other right can get trans people killed very often get black trans women murdered right it's not nothing and it's not a joke and it's not it's not just your personal opinion it's like right that it actually translates to true violence and and people have to come together and stand up and protect people who are that vulnerable.

[429] It's really important.

[430] Especially because it was 20 years ago and yet there is so much more to be done.

[431] And it's it's harrowing, you know, it's it's harrowing.

[432] All right.

[433] Well, I'm taking what couldn't be more of a 180 degree turn.

[434] I think that's good.

[435] I think we go, you know, I think we go like heavy and then we turn it around.

[436] to something else.

[437] These are, we contain multitudes.

[438] We can entertain all topics.

[439] But now it's your turn to shine.

[440] I'm going to shine, baby.

[441] Today I'm going to talk about Karen, the Toronto circus riot of 1855.

[442] Oh my.

[443] Oh, we haven't had a good circus riot in here in quite some time.

[444] There hasn't been a circus right.

[445] Come on.

[446] That's all you.

[447] Don't make me do it.

[448] Say it.

[449] You're so right.

[450] Say it.

[451] That's how out of practice I have.

[452] Why, we haven't.

[453] had a circus riot around here in 25 years in 125 years.

[454] And since 1855.

[455] The Toronto Circus Riot.

[456] Yes.

[457] The sources used today, Karen, are the Toronto Dreams Project by Adam Bunch, who wrote a lot about this.

[458] An article from Grunge, the Torontoist, the Baltimore Sun, and the Jeffersonian.

[459] And I first read about this late at night on Reddit, of course, on the Unresolved Mysteries Reddit of like, what's your favorite crazy or like, maybe it wasn't anyways, the next morning, Haley Gray, my research wonderful research woman, and emailed me and said, hey, have you ever thought about doing the Toronto Circus Riot?

[460] And I was like, did you read Reddit late last night?

[461] She's like, yeah.

[462] Oh, that's so weird.

[463] We're like, fuck.

[464] You and Haley were ships passing in the night.

[465] That's right.

[466] Because we both saw this story and we're like, What the fuck?

[467] Okay.

[468] In 1886, Karen, the city of Toronto, or Toronto, I don't know, Ontario is named Toronto the good due to its conservative population who wants the city's name to represent their morals.

[469] So it becomes this like very Victorian timey, like fucking tip of the hat, updo, you know.

[470] That sounds a little defensive to me. No, we're good.

[471] Do you need to name the whole city good?

[472] What kind of pervy shit are you doing in the afternoons?

[473] Well, I'll let you know.

[474] Oh, shit.

[475] In the afternoon of time, way back when, they were up to some no good.

[476] But in 1855, so that's 1886 when it becomes Toronto the good.

[477] But in 1855, way back when the story takes place, Toronto is not like this.

[478] It is not good.

[479] It is far from conservative.

[480] There are 152 taverns, 203 beer shops, and countless brothels.

[481] the population is only 40 ,000.

[482] So, like, every block has, like, 1 ,500, like, places you can drink and debauch, basically.

[483] So it's, it's like an old -timey, you know, Wild West kind of town.

[484] Hell yes.

[485] Yeah, that's right.

[486] They're right there.

[487] Say it.

[488] Aren't they right there on a river?

[489] Detroit River?

[490] Aren't they a famous river town?

[491] When you pause, I was like, say what you're going to say.

[492] because here we go, pissing them off.

[493] Because literally, I don't even know where I'm getting this idea.

[494] Lake Ontario.

[495] Oh, yeah, Karen.

[496] It's right there on Lake Ontario.

[497] That Lake Ontario River that everyone loves so much?

[498] Yeah.

[499] Cheers to Stephen for his editing.

[500] Canadian cheers to Steve.

[501] Canadian cheers.

[502] Oh, hoi, ho.

[503] So it's kind of a like wild westy type of town.

[504] In July 1855, the American touring circus, S. B. House Star Troop, Menagerie, and Circus, you know, Karen, your favorite show.

[505] Yeah.

[506] Stops in Toronto.

[507] The show features clowns, acrobats, equestrian, trick writers, and exotic animals, including big kitty cats, elephants, and a giraffe.

[508] The circus is only in town for two days and residents of Toronto are super excited because this is a small town.

[509] So this is not the kind of place that they usually get exciting stuff like this.

[510] Yeah.

[511] And this is before all entertainment.

[512] So this was like, this is like someone bringing the internet to your town.

[513] That's right.

[514] Like bringing a visual effects thing and every single person gets to wear it.

[515] Yes, exactly.

[516] And just like, look, an elephant, no, we're not beating it and chaining it to the wall.

[517] Don't worry about that part.

[518] No, this big cat isn't behaved because we're whipping it.

[519] It's because it likes to be tamed.

[520] It likes to sit on a really small human's chair.

[521] Yeah.

[522] So on July 12th, 1855, the circus performs multiple sold -out shows.

[523] It's a big ticket.

[524] When the last show's over, the clowns want to take advantage of Toronto's fun nightlife.

[525] Hell, yes, this fucking clowns do.

[526] Yeah.

[527] And so I feel like I should let you know.

[528] The clowns back then are not, well, I don't know how we think about clowns now, but they're not like, we, but, you know, squirty in your face, fun time clown, like with clean clothes and stuff.

[529] these guys are rough and tumble like cigar you know gross I bet their teeth are fucked up and they smell really but like these are rough and tumble these are hobo types really yeah they have to like they do all the manual labor around the circus oh yeah and then come out of a car like they're not chill well they're they don't they're not purely entertainment they're not artistes they're actually the um you know it's I was in a play my first year of college as a theater major and it was called Carnival Yeah, Carnival?

[530] And basically it was about that and those guys there's a name for those guys and it's like a goofy old -fashioned name because they were also Sorry, Stephen.

[531] No, leave it, I need to know more.

[532] Well, you keep going on I'll find you the name because it's on the tip of my tongue but my brain has gone completely smooth.

[533] Okay, brother you listen, though, so don't worry about it.

[534] Okay.

[535] So they decide that night to go out and take advantage of Toronto's nightlife, and they decide to go to a brothel.

[536] But little do they know, I know, right?

[537] Little do they know, the brothel that they settle on, which is called Mary Ann Armstrong's house on King Street, which is suspected according to newspapers from the day of being a house of ill repugue.

[538] or whatever.

[539] So, like, it might be a brothel.

[540] It might not be a brothel, but it's probably a brothel.

[541] Marianne Armstrong's?

[542] No way.

[543] Oh, your friend, Marianne?

[544] Oh, yeah.

[545] That's just my friend Marianne from back in the day.

[546] No. The reason she never invites you over is because she knows how much you like to party.

[547] She's got some parties going on.

[548] She knows I'll be jealous.

[549] That's right.

[550] But here's the thing.

[551] Marianne Armstrong's house on King Street is also a favorite of the hook and ladder firefighting company, a local firebripping company, also clowns.

[552] Well, here's the thing.

[553] At the time, firefighting brigade isn't a government -run fire department like we have today.

[554] According to the Torontoist, firefighting at this time is as much a social club as a profession.

[555] And the firefighters are often rough and tumble types.

[556] Yeah, still like that.

[557] So they're basically the same like personalities as clowns, but they're firefighters.

[558] Like how you, did you walk gangs of New York?

[559] Yes.

[560] And it's similar to that.

[561] So according to Adam Bunch, the journalist with the Toronto Dreams Project, he says, quote, When the fire breaks out, all the brigades who are nearby rush to the scene with their horse -drawn engines to get there first and call dibs.

[562] So it's like there's no city -funded government fucking get their first.

[563] It's like get their first privately owned firefighters.

[564] And sometimes if they, are you about to say this?

[565] tell me if they got there at the same time they get into fist fights here we go okay if more than one brigade does if more than one brigade does show up it's not uncommon for them to fight over who gets to put out the fire you are correct ma 'am i think i learned that when we did boston i think and i did the boston fire yes that's right in fact two weeks prior to july 12th this happened to hook and ladder who showed up to a fire at the same time as another brigade and instead of working together to put out the fire the brigade started fighting in the streets this turned into a riot and so while the building burned in the background they fought over who got to put out the burning building the border ground which is just a perfect example of modern government that's right real quick I'm just going to interrupt you and say the word I was looking for was roused about Roustabout roustabouts.

[566] They actually sing a song in the musical carnival called Yes, My Heart, and that's how I fucking figured it out.

[567] All right.

[568] I had to do it.

[569] I'm so sorry.

[570] And Karen Pilgariff starred in that in college?

[571] I held a long pole that had a bird cage on top of it.

[572] And my one line in the song was I was supposed to say live birds or something.

[573] It was like, and then I would sometimes sing dead birds because I thought it.

[574] It was funny.

[575] And that's why you dropped out of college.

[576] So I wanted to ruin the play for my own amusement.

[577] Okay, sorry.

[578] I'm like, I'm doing to your story right now.

[579] This is a story.

[580] This is a ruiner kind of story, so you're all good.

[581] Okay.

[582] Okay, the police show up to try to break up the firefighter riot and then both the firefighter houses, turn on the police and they start fighting the police.

[583] So Toronto is having a lot of fun That later becomes known as the fireman's riot But that's not what we're talking about today Okay The SB house clowns are no better than the firemen though They are also known to be rough and tumble types So they have to perform the manual labor Setting up and tearing down the whole fucking circus So they're super strong and like take no shit dudes And so having the firemen and the clowns In one brothel is an issue A lot of work for the law ladies oh poor women so on july 12th the clowns led by a man only known as myers show up to hook and ladders favorite brothel and it doesn't take long for the two groups of course to start fighting boys truly we don't know how the fight breaks out exactly maybe an obnoxious clown says something that pisses up a fireman a clown maybe cut in line the bar or the most accepted theory is that a fireman named Frazier knocked off the clown leader Myers hat and refused to pick it up.

[584] So they were looking for a fucking fight.

[585] I remember that episode of Frazier where yeah that this is very familiar to me. That's right.

[586] Niles was like, unhand my hat.

[587] Niles was like Frasier.

[588] Frasier.

[589] No matter how the fight starts though, things get out of hand very quickly and that ends up with two firemen, one being Frasier Crane and the other name Fawcett.

[590] are seriously injured and have to be dragged out to safety.

[591] Wow.

[592] And the firemen see that they are losing and they all fucking high tail it out of the brothel.

[593] So the clowns think they win and the clowns stay in the brothel, continue to drink and party.

[594] Everyone has a great time and that's the end of the story.

[595] Oh.

[596] Just kidding.

[597] The lesson is clowns win, firemen lose.

[598] Don't fight a clown.

[599] Sorry, bye.

[600] Bye.

[601] Of course, that's not where the story ends.

[602] the hook and ladder firemen are not giving up that easily.

[603] They go gather a group of friends, a very powerful and well -connected group of friends.

[604] But oh.

[605] So according to Adam Bunch with the Toronto Dreams Project, as I've talked about before, Toronto was run by the something called the Orange Order, which is a small group of Protestant Tory elites.

[606] You know, tip of that hat.

[607] You self -Tanner.

[608] Wink of the thing.

[609] a wink of the old tipple A tipple or the old wink The old river water Karen and I are both Touching the brim of our hats I want everyone Our imaginary hats Everyone should know That's the orange order Tip of the old Wink of the old They refer themselves as the orange men And they make sure that All of their fellow patrons Who are orange men Get the powerful jobs in the city They're like the masons, right?

[610] Sure We're just white guys exactly they're white Protestant Tories and everyone gets the job basically they're all Protestants from Ireland an ongoing influx of Catholic Irish who are coming into town I don't know sorry leave that up so pretty much every read it it's because Protestants and Catholics don't like each other yeah so that help you so basically the orange men are these representatives of the Protestant ascendary of Ireland and because there's this influx of Catholic Irish fleeing the famine and who are still like having a lot of fun there's a lot of fights and riots going on between these these new Catholic Irish and these Protestants in Toronto in Toronto yeah they basically brought the fight from the old the motherland sure right over into Maple Leaf territory that's right mm -hmm pretty much every fireman police officer and politician in Toronto is an orangeman.

[611] So as you can imagine, they're really close -knit.

[612] They look out for each other.

[613] If you mess with one of them, you mess with all of them.

[614] And the orangemen are not happy when they hear about what the clowns did at the brothel.

[615] And they're like, let's kick some ass.

[616] And they went and got a bunch of mimes.

[617] And here we go.

[618] And here's a fucking fighting giraffe.

[619] What are you going to do about it?

[620] I mean, this is as cartoony as it possibly could be.

[621] It really is.

[622] And the next day, you're not going to believe this, is a Friday to 13th.

[623] What?

[624] Yeah.

[625] So during the day, a mob of Orangemen swarm the circus tents, which are located on the fair green, the Orangeman tell everyone who isn't a circums employee to get the fuck out of there.

[626] Oh.

[627] The Orangeman then shout their demands to the circus employees.

[628] They want that clown Myers, but he won't come out or he might not actually be there.

[629] I had a fucking skedaddle knowing there was like trouble in town of ruin.

[630] The bearded lady is like, can I help you?

[631] Yeah.

[632] What exactly do you need?

[633] I'm sorry.

[634] I'm sorry.

[635] But either way, the circus employees grab whatever weapon they could find and they all go into the big top tent trying to like kind of hide out from the mob knowing that this isn't good.

[636] Right.

[637] Meanwhile, the police are notified that a fight is about to break out.

[638] But the chief Samuel Sherwood, he's, you're not.

[639] going to believe this a member of the orange order yes so he drags his feet he's like yeah let's eventually go out there and help the circus people uh but don't rush not right the second yeah so eventually he and six officers head to fair green to see what's going on but by the time the sheriff and officers finally arrive things have escalated and the orange men are throwing rocks at the tent and they're damaging wagons, you know, wagons, either by sending them on fire or throwing them into the nearby lake.

[640] So it's fucking mayhem.

[641] Okay.

[642] The police try to get the men to disperse.

[643] They refuse.

[644] And when Chief Sherwood tries to make an arrest, he's attacked.

[645] And it's clear that the six officers and the chief don't have enough manpower to go up against the angry mob of Orange Men.

[646] So they're like, let's go get the mayor and some more officers.

[647] So the Orange.

[648] like the mare's in there already.

[649] He's the biggest orange men of all.

[650] The whole thing is corrupt.

[651] It goes all the way to the top.

[652] He's the bearded orange man. How do we do that?

[653] So the orange man continued damaging wagons.

[654] They overturn the ticket wagon and smash it to pieces with their axes.

[655] They light it on fire.

[656] And then at some point, part of the mob sets off a fire alarm, which who knew was a fucking thing at the time, which causes...

[657] It's just a two can over on the side, like in the Flintstone.

[658] So the hook and ladder fire crews shows up.

[659] The guys from last night who got their asses fucking run out of the brothel.

[660] So they got a fucking beef to pick.

[661] Oh.

[662] You don't want your beef picked.

[663] You don't want your beef picked.

[664] No. So they start attacking the fucking actual big top.

[665] And they take their fire wagons and they hook up the big top to their fire truck.

[666] And then drive and basically denude the big top.

[667] They denude it.

[668] And everyone's standing there, like covering their tits or whatever.

[669] Like, oh, no, I don't know.

[670] Yes.

[671] Then they lighted on fire.

[672] Ooh, I know.

[673] Circus employees start to flee the big top.

[674] The hook and ladder crew starts running after them with picks and with pikes and axes.

[675] Picks probably too, though.

[676] Out of all the employees, the clowns bear the brunt of the attack.

[677] they're severely beaten.

[678] Shit.

[679] The other employees try to find a safe place away from what's become a riot.

[680] And some even jump into the nearby lake to be like, fucking, I don't know, get away from me. Home base, home free.

[681] Horrifying.

[682] Yeah.

[683] So the big top tent is on fire.

[684] The mob of Orangemen are running for the next thing that they think they need to fucking ruin the animal cages.

[685] Oh.

[686] I know.

[687] Uh -oh.

[688] As they try to light them in fire, the mayor.

[689] and six additional officers finally do something productive and fight them off and save the animals.

[690] The mayor then tries to subdue the crowd, but he's unsuccessful.

[691] He only managed, the only he can manage to do is grab an axe out of a fireman's hand as he's about to kill a clown.

[692] That's all I does.

[693] It's basically Game of Thrones, but with clowns and firemen.

[694] Clowns and firemen.

[695] It's the red wedding, I'm assuming.

[696] Yes.

[697] Guessing off of none.

[698] There is definitely a bunch of circus stuff at that wedding.

[699] Keep your eye peeled.

[700] I'm excited.

[701] Karen lied to me. The madness doesn't end until the mayor calls in the militia.

[702] And once they arrive around 2 a .m. And they had got by the, the fucking riot had showed up at like during the day.

[703] So by 2 a .m., the crowd finally runs off.

[704] The circus shockingly packs up and gets the fuck out of there.

[705] Yeah, I bet they do.

[706] Yeah.

[707] Yeah.

[708] But the public is outraged over the riot and how their city treated like the one fun thing in town, you know?

[709] And to them, it's clear there's some corruption in the police force.

[710] And the public said, yeah, maybe the public demands an investigation into the force and their role in the riot.

[711] But all the officers who had been sent to break up the riot magically can't remember any of the orange men's faces who, were part of it.

[712] They say it was too dark to see anyone's faces.

[713] Interesting, January 6th.

[714] Mm -hmm.

[715] Eventually, after the investigation concludes, 17 people are charged in the riot, but only one is convicted.

[716] So just one person is responsible for burning down the circus.

[717] Turns out Gary.

[718] Gary over there.

[719] Fucking that guy.

[720] He'll start any riot at any moment.

[721] He's just a wild -eyed youngster.

[722] the hat.

[723] He'll fucking start a riot, Gary.

[724] Just reactive, just a reactive man. Very orange.

[725] Very orange.

[726] But so the public is outraged about this fact as well.

[727] They feel like a cover -up has taken place, which is like no shit.

[728] It has.

[729] And so riots keep happening because nothing's been done to punish the corrupt police force.

[730] A few months after the circus riot, a big riot breaks out between the Orangemen and the Catholics, just all of them.

[731] Yeah.

[732] And just like the circus, when the riot is investigated, none of the officers can remember who was at the scene.

[733] So within months of the Orange Men Catholic riots, the Toronto public is so fed up with corruption that they elect a different mayor for the first time in more than 20 years, a member of the liberal reform party.

[734] We're like, get this guy out of here.

[735] Yeah.

[736] Get this orange guy out of here.

[737] Am I right?

[738] Am I right?

[739] We've been there.

[740] We've been there.

[741] And so with a new mayor, the city.

[742] Council suggests that the police force be completely reformed.

[743] They're like, hey, you know, it would be great.

[744] If we could have some people we could rely on.

[745] Just some people that actually do the job.

[746] You know.

[747] Yeah.

[748] The thing.

[749] And the government of Canada West, which is basically the Ontario government, agrees.

[750] And years later, after many political obstacles, every member of the Toronto police is fired.

[751] Oh, my God.

[752] A new force is established.

[753] that resembles the type of force Toronto has today.

[754] So if you're going to visit Toronto, don't let this story stop you.

[755] It's a beautiful place.

[756] We love it.

[757] Niles and Fraser Crane no longer serve.

[758] No. They're there to welcome you as our Kit Katz and some really friendly people.

[759] Toronto becomes more tame and boring under proper Victorian rules and residents no longer have to worry about the Orangeman having control of the city.

[760] But somehow, the story of the riots that broke out between corrupt firefighters and rough and tumbled clowns has never been turned into a movie.

[761] Oh, what a mistake.

[762] Uh -huh.

[763] And that is the story of the Toronto Circus Riot of 1855.

[764] Oh, shit, dude.

[765] I mean, I never heard anything close to that.

[766] Who's in that?

[767] We have to cast the Canadian.

[768] And that is how Cirque de Soleil was founded.

[769] That's so true.

[770] Oh, the feats they went through to get away from the riot that day.

[771] Oh, Jesus.

[772] I think Timothy Shalomey should be in there, is it?

[773] Like a young, he's like the young Harlequin clown.

[774] Oh, yeah.

[775] Oh, you want him to be Frasier Crane.

[776] Is he Canadian?

[777] No, I don't think so.

[778] Oh, okay, well, we could put him in there anyways.

[779] I'm just saying, you know.

[780] Just say.

[781] I just want to say, can't I say?

[782] I wish you didn't say.

[783] You know what's really funny, I thought there was a chance, and I'm actually going to do this now that I think about it, because I heard long ago, and so this was probably in the early 2000s, I went to see Charles Nelson Riley do a one -man show at the Falcon Theater in Toluca Lake, California.

[784] Wow.

[785] If you don't know who Charles Nelson Riley is, you have to watch Match Game.

[786] He was a legendary comedic performer of the, 50s, 60s, 70s.

[787] I'm not, I'm not Googling anything right now.

[788] What are you not Googled?

[789] You don't know.

[790] Oh, my God.

[791] Yes, he was on, um, four square.

[792] What's it called?

[793] Smash game.

[794] Match game.

[795] And him and Brett.

[796] But so he does this one man show.

[797] And it was unbelievably great.

[798] And he told all these stories from his childhood.

[799] And one of the stories was him and his cousin.

[800] were going they wanted to go to the circus his mother said no and they took money and they ran out and and his mother yelled as they ran like basically they got in trouble and they just ran and went anyway to the circus and his mother yelled I hope you I hope it burns down or something kind of crazy like yeah the mother yells that and then they're sitting there they snuck into the circus yeah because they didn't have I guess the mother wouldn't give them money sure And as they're sitting there, the fucking circus tent catches on fire.

[801] No. Because they used to put oil on top of the canvas.

[802] Yeah.

[803] For some reason, and it was highly flammable.

[804] And the main circus tent caught on fire.

[805] And Charles Nelson -Marleine's cousin escaped and all these people died in the fire.

[806] I've heard about circus fires before, like big top circus fire.

[807] But I didn't know that's why.

[808] That's crazy.

[809] Yeah.

[810] He explained it.

[811] It was such an amazing, like it was a breathtaking story the way he told it.

[812] But he was right there.

[813] And the only reason they got out is because they didn't wait to go out and exit work.

[814] Because everyone was trying to stampede out the exits, they just ran and pulled up a flap.

[815] And we're like, we'll just go out the way we came in.

[816] Oh, my God.

[817] And they escaped.

[818] Yeah.

[819] Maybe I'll cover that one.

[820] I wish.

[821] I'll cover Charles Nelson Riley's story.

[822] I wish you would.

[823] In the new year.

[824] No. He passed away.

[825] Sadly.

[826] Sadly.

[827] One of the greats.

[828] Oh, truly.

[829] I think this might be our last, our last podcast of, this is our last recording.

[830] This is our last recording.

[831] However, we pre -recorded the rest of this year.

[832] So, for the holidays.

[833] It's all new and exciting, guys.

[834] We just, Karen and I just going to take a couple weeks off, but it's all new to you, baby.

[835] Yeah, but to us, we're about to go into Christmas vacation.

[836] It's such a thrill.

[837] It's so exciting.

[838] And we have a couple more celebrity hometowns that are brand new coming out.

[839] So there's new stuff coming through the end of this month.

[840] Yeah.

[841] We have to justify.

[842] Why do I have to justify very hard to keep you entertained throughout this whole, this winter holiday season.

[843] Don't worry about it.

[844] We've done it.

[845] Why can I be like, we're done.

[846] Here's some more episode.

[847] Like, I have to be like, don't worry.

[848] We've got you and everything's fine and we're not lazy, but I'm going to be lazy as fuck.

[849] What are you going to do?

[850] What's your dream?

[851] Yeah, we don't have to say any of that shit.

[852] People are right there with us.

[853] What's your dream?

[854] for the next couple weeks when we have off.

[855] I would like to watch some movies that I haven't seen because I haven't gone to the movie theater.

[856] I haven't seen new movies.

[857] I don't even know what movies have come out.

[858] So I'd like to just sit and watch like a two -hour movie.

[859] Yeah.

[860] Get caught up.

[861] I don't know.

[862] Sitting and watching is like the operative words of what we're going to do.

[863] yeah I think so and just not being on Zoom that's my dream yeah dude let's not do it I'm gonna do I'm gonna watch Game of Thrones and watch TV and the great and I'm gonna cook a ton of stuff in the air fryer oh nice yes and that's basically it like I don't have to do Christmas Vince and I're gonna have some Christmas dinner but like nothing fancy it's just gonna be nice yeah we're just doing small family Christmas and just really being chill yeah and like not you know, taking it as easy as possible.

[864] Right.

[865] And seeing Metallica.

[866] For sure.

[867] And of course, we're following Metallica all around the nation, which we always, I mean, you guys know we do that all the time.

[868] We've done that for most of our lives.

[869] We've pretty much been on the tour of us with the guys.

[870] Sorry, but did you know our Metallica heads?

[871] What is that?

[872] Is that a thing?

[873] Metallica heads.

[874] Did you know Metallica kicked off their 1980 tour in Pedalica?

[875] California.

[876] Why?

[877] Because baby, they were, they're a Bay Area band.

[878] Oh, that's right.

[879] Yeah.

[880] There was some serious, um, we had this is pretty major metal bands, um, in the Bay Area in the 80s, Vitalka.

[881] Uh, it was like, Quiet Riot.

[882] No. I don't know.

[883] Y and T. There was a band called Tesla, I think, that was from the.

[884] Oh, yeah.

[885] Bay Area.

[886] Or at least they were, Do you're just name me?

[887] I know.

[888] I know.

[889] George, you can't do this shit when you go to the Metallica show, please.

[890] I'm going to wear an ACDCs from San Francisco shirt.

[891] No, you're going to get the shit.

[892] You're going to be like a clown at a fireman convention.

[893] They're going to beat the shit out of you.

[894] Oh, we didn't do our announcement for our donation this week.

[895] We have spent the month of December making donations to charities that we like.

[896] just because it's the time of year to give to maybe encourage other people who have it to give, if possible, no judgments, no shade.

[897] This week, we're donating to the Trevor Project.

[898] That's the world's largest suicide prevention and crisis intervention organization for LGBTQ young people.

[899] So we're giving the Trevor Project $10 ,000 to continue their work.

[900] And yeah, they're an amazing, an amazing foundation that's done really beautiful, unbelievable work for the queer and gay community.

[901] Yeah.

[902] And we couldn't do it without you guys.

[903] So thank you so much for supporting us and for listening and for supporting us.

[904] You've supported us twice and you've listened to us once.

[905] That's right.

[906] And we'll never forgive you for that.

[907] I love it.

[908] I love it.

[909] Make a list of things you're grateful for this in this past year or make a list of things you want to get done in this next year.

[910] Let's be goals oriented.

[911] Let's be positive.

[912] Let's get muscular.

[913] I'm going to get super muscular in 2020.

[914] That's right.

[915] We appreciate you guys.

[916] Karen's going to get fucking ripped.

[917] I just want to stay strong.

[918] and I want to stay, I want to get healthy, I want to be strong and I want to fight the fight.

[919] That's right.

[920] You heard it here last.

[921] Right?

[922] This is the last place you'll hear pretty much anything pressing.

[923] But it's the first place you'll hear, stay sexy.

[924] And don't get murdered.

[925] Goodbye!

[926] Great job, great job.

[927] Boom.

[928] Elvis, do you want a cookie?

[929] This has been an exactly right production.

[930] Our producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.

[931] Associate producer Alejandra Keck Engineer and mixer Steven Ray Morris Researchers Jay Elias and Haley Gray Send us your hometowns and your fucking phrase at my favorite murder at gmail .com And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder And for more information about this podcast Our Live Show's merch Or to join the fan cult Go to My Favorite Murder .com Rate review and subscribe Subscribe!